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THM Nindo
November 28, 2009, 08:34 AM
Okay, so, recent development shown that a lot of people trust that Ichigo is the only one that can defeat Aizen.

He got a chance because he's captain-level (maybe more according to Unohana) and because he didn't see Aizen's release.

My question is : Who else didn't see Aizen's release and, therefore, would have a chance against him?

For sure, Ichigo's friends didn't see it :
- Ishida
- Sado
- Orohime

But, they don't see strong enough to even have a chance against Aizen (unless Orohime can suddenly "reject Aizen's existence" :p)

Are there some from Soul Society that didn't see it?
- Did Renji see it?
- Did Rukia see it?

I think Renji saw it, but I'm not sure about Rukia.

What about the ones that left Soul Society?
- Did Urohara see it?
- Did Yoruichi see it?
- Did Tessai see it?
- Did the two kids see it?

- Did Isshin see it?

Urohara, Yoruichi and Tessai might have seen it during the year they were there...
The two kids with Urohara might not be that strong, but they still didn't see Aizen's release.

As for Isshin, I'm pretty sure he didn't see it.
I mean... he left Soul Society before the even of Pendulum (I think).

And as far as I know, Isshin is pretty strong (stronger than Ichigo?) and could have a shot against Aizen too.
And let's not forget that Kubo said that Isshin would be very important in the next arc (Isshin training Ichigo?)

What about the Squad Zero?
I'm sure all of those guys didn't see Aizen's release...

Instead of hoping for Ichigo to pull something crazy, I wonder why Yama-ji didn't request some help from the Squad Zero...

And of course, there's still Tousen, who is blind, and thus, who isn't under Aizen's influence.
Is there any chance for him to turn good?
I doubt it, but it would certainly be interesting.

----

So who get a shot at Aizen!?
Who didn't see Aizen's release and might be strong enough to beat him:

- Ichigo
- Isshin
- Tousen
- Squad Zero
- Urohara? (He would be strong enough, but he might have seen it)

street_san
November 28, 2009, 09:13 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/171/12/

All the Vice-Captains saw it.

I'm not sure for the people below them, but I think Aizen didn't have to show them his power since they are really not worth it. But it's only my opinion xD

Yans86
November 28, 2009, 09:21 AM
Only Ichigo and his friends are immune......and maybe Isshin....Unohana already stated that veryone has seen it,included Urahara group.And it's kinda likely that Mifune Taichou(RG) has seen it too...

drakend
November 28, 2009, 10:37 AM
Only Ichigo and his friends are immune......and maybe Isshin....Unohana already stated that veryone has seen it,included Urahara group.And it's kinda likely that Mifune Taichou(RG) has seen it too...
No they aren't immune... they didn't see it. As soon as they see it they're done for, like evreybody else.

Aizen's advantage didn't change a bit: Ichigo has only A CHANCE to take down him, before he shows Ichigo his release.
I don't think Aizen is going to fall for a one-hit attack, even because Ichigo doesn't have an attack like that, for now at least. Ichigo will have to defeat Aizen in a long fight, so he will have to overcome his shikai, his bankai and his mask. The dude is calling himself a god, so in order to take down a god you must become a greater god yourself...

drakend
November 28, 2009, 01:33 PM
basically we need Black Star from Soul Eater. anyone else will fail miserably lol
I don't know what or who Black Star is (I didn't watch Soul Eater), but I think Aizen can really be considered almost a god, considering his shikai can own the entire SS (according to Unohana, not to some Aizen's worshipper!).
Ichigo will need far more than Ichigonator to defeat Aizen: he needs to become stronger than him, that's enough said... UNLESS Kubo doesn't decide to make a lame plot twist by giving Ichigo the reiatsu of his friends, of the nature or some shit along these lines... :D

THM Nindo
November 28, 2009, 03:15 PM
I don't know what or who Black Star is (I didn't watch Soul Eater), but I think Aizen can really be considered almost a god, considering his shikai can own the entire SS (according to Unohana, not to some Aizen's worshipper!).
Ichigo will need far more than Ichigonator to defeat Aizen: he needs to become stronger than him, that's enough said... UNLESS Kubo doesn't decide to make a lame plot twist by giving Ichigo the reiatsu of his friends, of the nature or some shit along these lines... :D

Well, so far Aizen didn't show much.
He was able to stop Ichigo's bankai with a finger, and stop Tessai casting with his own without singing the chant...

j/k

He's shown that he's one of the strongest to avoid being hit, but he didn't shown any attack (except when he slashed Momo and Harribel).
Now, I hope we are going to see him fight against the strongest of Soul Society so that we can really evaluate if he's strong or not..

drakend
November 28, 2009, 03:26 PM
He's shown that he's one of the strongest to avoid being hit, but he didn't shown any attack (except when he slashed Momo and Harribel).
Now, I hope we are going to see him fight against the strongest of Soul Society so that we can really evaluate if he's strong or not..
Aizen can manipulate an enemy like a puppet... regardless of his strength. How can you have doubts on his strength?
Separate Aizen's shikai from his overall strength is nonsense: kyouka suigetsu is Aizen's strength.
I think it should be classified as plotkai tough: it's just too overpowered, on par with Inoue's rejection skills.

Mifune_Taichou
November 29, 2009, 10:32 AM
I don't know what or who Black Star is (I didn't watch Soul Eater), but I think Aizen can really be considered almost a god, considering his shikai can own the entire SS (according to Unohana, not to some Aizen's worshipper!).
Ichigo will need far more than Ichigonator to defeat Aizen: he needs to become stronger than him, that's enough said... UNLESS Kubo doesn't decide to make a lame plot twist by giving Ichigo the reiatsu of his friends, of the nature or some shit along these lines... :D

Black Star is a character who's catchphrase is " i am the man who will surpass God". which is why we need him to beat Aizen lol. But seriously cmon its so obvious Ichigo will beat him eventually. even his sword is forshadowing it. Aizen's aim is to stand in heaven and Ichigo's move translates loosely to "Wolve's fang slices heaven" or somesuch. It is written.

kkck
November 29, 2009, 12:30 PM
No one in the gotei 13 had so much as a shred of a chance of not seeing aizen's shikai. The simple possibility does not exist; aizen is far to smart to make such a mistake. He easily had over 110 years to put every captain, VC and member of the squads to do that. We have no idea of ishin's backstory so it is kinda hard to say. I doubt someone as himself would stay out of the war if he was such an important asset in it though. Ishida's dad is another possibility but it is very hard to know without knowing his backstory. The only safe bets here are uryu, ichigo, orihime and chad; orihime has been around aizen for a while though, it is plausible she has also been put under it off screen.

drakend
November 30, 2009, 04:55 PM
Black Star is a character who's catchphrase is " i am the man who will surpass God". which is why we need him to beat Aizen lol. But seriously cmon its so obvious Ichigo will beat him eventually. even his sword is forshadowing it. Aizen's aim is to stand in heaven and Ichigo's move translates loosely to "Wolve's fang slices heaven" or somesuch. It is written.
Yeah I agree on the fact Ichigo will beat Aizen some day, but this arc is not that day, that's for sure! :D
Regarding Ichigo's release... you made me realize something: its meaning may be a spoiler about Aizen actually being sucessful il capturing the throne!

Raizen
November 30, 2009, 05:06 PM
I had a theory that aizen was the son of a traitor from the King's real. To save his son, he banished aizen from the king's realm. Everyone thought aizen was dead, but really he was hiding in SS under another persona waiting for the perfect chance to strike lol

But no, aizen is not god. If his shikai was truly absolute, what is stopping him from owning all the captains now? Why didn't he just use his shikai to own everyone on sokyoku hill? Thing is, there must be limits to his shikai. Whehter that is how many people he can confuse at one time or how long he can maintain an illusion or how many illusions he can cast.

Unohana's statement to me applies to 1-on-1. It would be almost impossible ot beat aizen due to the illusions, but it is also hard for him to beat all of ss

Banedor
November 30, 2009, 05:21 PM
My question is, Ichigo only has to see the release once. Can't Aizen release his sword, dodge his first attack and vola, has Ichigo caught in it?

I don't see how Kubo can work his way around Aizen's insanely strong release.

-Ken-
November 30, 2009, 10:45 PM
I had a theory that aizen was the son of a traitor from the King's real. To save his son, he banished aizen from the king's realm. Everyone thought aizen was dead, but really he was hiding in SS under another persona waiting for the perfect chance to strike lol

But no, aizen is not god. If his shikai was truly absolute, what is stopping him from owning all the captains now? Why didn't he just use his shikai to own everyone on sokyoku hill? Thing is, there must be limits to his shikai. Whehter that is how many people he can confuse at one time or how long he can maintain an illusion or how many illusions he can cast.

Unohana's statement to me applies to 1-on-1. It would be almost impossible ot beat aizen due to the illusions, but it is also hard for him to beat all of ss

I'm sure Aizen's power had limits, but I don't think it's related to the nember of people he can 'controled' at a time. In the Turn Back the Pendulum arc he 'controled' Shunsui and loads of other shinigami at the same time (Don't remember the amount).

Gecko Moria
December 01, 2009, 04:16 AM
But no, aizen is not god. If his shikai was truly absolute, what is stopping him from owning all the captains now?

Aizen is the type of character that needs to be 100% sure he can win before he attempts anything. He even had a back-up plan to extract the Hogyoku from Rukia in the very unlikely event that something went wrong with the original plan to execute Rukia with the Sokyoku. Therefore, I think Aizen is contemplating that even with his powerful abilities, he would definitely have some trouble fighting off all the captains present so he is not taking any action just yet.


Why didn't he just use his shikai to own everyone on sokyoku hill?

He was caught off-guard by Soi Fon and Yoruichi's surprise attack, as seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/177/09/). Yoruichi threatened to decapitate him if he tried anything.


Thing is, there must be limits to his shikai. Whehter that is how many people he can confuse at one time or how long he can maintain an illusion or how many illusions he can cast.

I think the limit of his shikai is would be how long he can maintain it. Use of any abilities requires energy, and even Aizen would not be able to keep his shikai active forever.

Gran Maestro
December 01, 2009, 04:34 AM
If I were Aizen, I would at least kill the senior captains one by one long before revealing my true abilities. His reluctance to do so and his remark about the espada indicate that his faith in his power is not absolute.

Xerous
December 01, 2009, 05:03 AM
aside from our main KT heroes............I am
[hr]
which made me wonder why kubo made it seem only ichigo could stop him i'm sure they could all just jump him lol

ninjaman
December 01, 2009, 09:52 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/172/12/ jus had to post this here lol it made my day.

Izkity
December 01, 2009, 12:00 PM
I'd say just Ichigo and Tousen, at the moment. And only because Ichigo hasn't seen it yet.

Saint Markus
December 01, 2009, 02:55 PM
trying to figure out when Urahara actually saw Aizen's shi kai, being that before he became a captain, he was part of the secret ops. which i am assuming remain unseen in the public eye and after he discovered what Aizen did, Aizen's sword was sheathed the whole time. I still think Kubo overlooked Urahara's advantage in all this as well as Tessai.

i think Kon is the real threat against Aizen.

Raizen
December 01, 2009, 04:07 PM
Aizen is the type of character that needs to be 100% sure he can win before he attempts anything. He even had a back-up plan to extract the Hogyoku from Rukia in the very unlikely event that something went wrong with the original plan to execute Rukia with the Sokyoku. Therefore, I think Aizen is contemplating that even with his powerful abilities, he would definitely have some trouble fighting off all the captains present so he is not taking any action just yet.



He was caught off-guard by Soi Fon and Yoruichi's surprise attack, as seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/177/09/). Yoruichi threatened to decapitate him if he tried anything.



I think the limit of his shikai is would be how long he can maintain it. Use of any abilities requires energy, and even Aizen would not be able to keep his shikai active forever.
1- Yes he likes to have back up plans. But to me he is being more cautious then what he should be if his shikai was really absolute

2- Which means that he can be taken down. You just have to find a way around it. I was arguing that aizen w/ shikai is not God

3- That is what I believe too. I think that the stronger someone's SP is, the harder it is to maintian such illusions, similar to amor in that sense

drakend
December 01, 2009, 05:02 PM
But no, aizen is not god. If his shikai was truly absolute, what is stopping him from owning all the captains now? Why didn't he just use his shikai to own everyone on sokyoku hill? Thing is, there must be limits to his shikai. Whehter that is how many people he can confuse at one time or how long he can maintain an illusion or how many illusions he can cast.

As far as I'm concerned I never stated that Aizen's shikai makes him a god... I said he's a god because he still has a bankai and the hollow mask. With a shikai he's the strongest known shinigami...
The fact he cannot fight while making illusions is bullshit: what happened to Harribel proves the opposite.
He can kill al of SS with his shikai... Unohana thinks like me for this aspect, so Aizen's haters should stop their whinings. :D

jaymizzo
December 01, 2009, 05:19 PM
As far as I'm concerned I never stated that Aizen's shikai makes him a god... I said he's a god because he still has a bankai and the hollow mask. With a shikai he's the strongest known shinigami...
The fact he cannot fight while making illusions is bullshit: what happened to Harribel proves the opposite.
He can kill al of SS with his shikai... Unohana thinks like me for this aspect, so Aizen's haters should stop their whinings. :D

If what Unohana Said was true.. wats stopping aizen from killing all SS + Getting a Gigai and Killing All KT? :eyeroll

If As u state... Hi Having a Bankai + Mask = God .. then it shouldnt be a problem for him to enter the kings realm.. unleash his shikai.. go bankai.. kill Squad 0 and royal guard.. Abuse the king.. and become king himself.. and cast mugen tsukuyomi :facepalm
His powers Probably hav a big limit.... Or he doesnt have a bankai... or smfin to tht effect.. coz he wouldnt be messing around with people if his power IS tht Absolute! :p

I like Aizen to some extent coz his an interesting guy.. i wana know his back story, and hate him to the exact extent.. because his a wanabe god (and thts the truth) and has failed in killing all his enemies (hallibel was an ally.. and i dont think shez dead) :darn

Raizen
December 01, 2009, 06:24 PM
As far as I'm concerned I never stated that Aizen's shikai makes him a god... I said he's a god because he still has a bankai and the hollow mask. With a shikai he's the strongest known shinigami...
The fact he cannot fight while making illusions is bullshit: what happened to Harribel proves the opposite.
He can kill al of SS with his shikai... Unohana thinks like me for this aspect, so Aizen's haters should stop their whinings. :D
First off, I don't hate aizen. i think as far as villains go, he is quite impressive, especially in teh SS arc

Secondly, saying things like "He can kill all of SS with his shikai" is clear fan boyism. If in fact aizen could do so, he would have done it. Why waste time gathering the espadas? Waiting for the hokyoku to awaken, running away from sokyoku hill, etc

Gran Maestro
December 01, 2009, 06:28 PM
If what Unohana Said was true.. wats stopping aizen from killing all SS + Getting a Gigai and Killing All KT? :eyeroll

If As u state... Hi Having a Bankai + Mask = God .. then it shouldnt be a problem for him to enter the kings realm.. unleash his shikai.. go bankai.. kill Squad 0 and royal guard.. Abuse the king.. and become king himself.. and cast mugen tsukuyomi :facepalm
His powers Probably hav a big limit.... Or he doesnt have a bankai... or smfin to tht effect.. coz he wouldnt be messing around with people if his power IS tht Absolute! :p

I like Aizen to some extent coz his an interesting guy.. i wana know his back story, and hate him to the exact extent.. because his a wanabe god (and thts the truth) and has failed in killing all his enemies (hallibel was an ally.. and i dont think shez dead) :darn

You infidel, how dare you question Aizen's godhood? He'll electrocute all his opponents with lightnings coming from his ..., umm, hands. :D :p

Joke aside, I totally agree with you. SS has set up a FKT to stop Aizen, what exactly was it for? If the almighty (!) Aizen can kill them all at five minutes tops, why did they bother for a fake town? The answer is simple: They believe they can stop Aizen.

R4zr
December 01, 2009, 06:43 PM
If the almighty (!) Aizen can kill them all at five minutes tops, why did they bother for a fake town? The answer is simple: They believe they can stop Aizen.


That, however, does not mean they are capable of doing so.

Gran Maestro
December 01, 2009, 07:10 PM
That, however, does not mean they are capable of doing so.

Well, it remains to be seen. Aizen is about to fight, so we'll find it out soon.

Snake_Cowboy
December 02, 2009, 01:58 PM
There are very few people that are, most likely, safe from Aizen's shikai. Only Ichigo and Tousen are confirmed beyond the shadow of a doubt, but there are a handful of other candidates (excluding, of course, characters like Kon :P ).

I've always thought that Isshin is safe from Kyouka Suigetsu, mainly because no one but Urahara seems to know about him. I'm getting the impression that he was a former member of the Royal Guard and he was promoted long before Aizen even joined a squad. Thus, Aizen most likely doesn't know about Isshin either and I don't think he had any chance of placing him under hypnosis. I doubt he came to the living world very often. Which leads me to the next guy, who I'm even more certain of.

Ryuuken. I'm very sure that Ishida's father is not affected by Kyouka Suigetsu either. The Quincy are all but extinct and despite his considerable power, Ryuuken does not seem like the kind of guy that did his duty as one all that much, if he ever did it at all. Mayuri seemed very surprised about Ishida in their initial encounter, so I doubt Soul Society knows about Ryuuken either. Again, even if they had, I doubt Aizen would have bothered visited a single Quincy just to put him under hypnosis.

Finally, there's Urahara. To me, he's the most interesting character to consider in this matter, as I'm getting the impression that, if he isn't affected or somehow finds a way to counter-act or see through Kyouka Suigetsu, he might be powerful and brilliant enough to actually defeat Aizen.

Still, if Aizen has already been putting everyone in Soul Society under his hypnosis since the Turn Back The Pendulum arc, then it's very likely that Urahara, Tessai, Yoruichi and the Vizards are all under the influence of Kyouka Suigetsu. In fact, if there's one guy in Soul Society that Aizen would want to put under hypnosis, it's Urahara: he knew how smart he was. The fact that Urahara was able to create the Hougyoku and Aizen was not able to gain Hollow powers without it, proves that in some manners, Urahara is definitely more knowledgable than Aizen; someone like him, who relies on his smarts, would see Urahara as one of his greatest threats and he would definitely try to find a way to show him his shikai.

As an innocent vice-captain, I'm sure Aizen had the opportunity for that somewhere along the line. But who knows, I might be wrong, or Urahara has found another way to escape the hypnosis.

drakend
December 04, 2009, 03:47 PM
Sometimes people ask dumb questions... why didn't Aizen kill them at Soukyou Hill? Because it would end Bleach there: it's called plot hole, have you ever heard of it? :rolleyes:
I'm simply amazed that people counter to Unohana's clear words a pathetic "uh his shikai has probably a big flaw"... :D
In front of a clear and unmistakable evidence (Unohana's speech... Kubo took two chapters to show it even!) that Aizen can defeat all of Gotei 13 people can only oppose speculation, saying to the other people who think based on evidence they're fanboys and other similiar crap.
Please... :D

Gran Maestro
December 04, 2009, 07:16 PM
Unohana only knows what Aizen told her and therefore makes an assumption based on this information. Aizen, on the other hand, knows his power better than anybody else and the same Aizen said that he never thought he could be stronger than all espada, implying that he's not invincible.

When we introduce plot holes as an excuse to support our opinions, we should keep in mind that the same plot hole theory can be applied to anything that favours our opinions. What some people say for Aizen, they used to say similar things for the espada (the espada will wipe the floor with SS and as such) but they were proven wrong. I guess some people never learn and they'll get surprised again (!) when Aizen retreats. :)

drakend
December 05, 2009, 02:32 AM
When we introduce plot holes as an excuse to support our opinions, we should keep in mind that the same plot hole theory can be applied to anything that favours our opinions. What some people say for Aizen, they used to say similar things for the espada (the espada will wipe the floor with SS and as such) but they were proven wrong. I guess some people never learn and they'll get surprised again (!) when Aizen retreats. :)
Aizen's calculations are absolute: he can foresee evrey possible outcome coming from KNOWN characters. The manga has proven us this many times. I think he's assembying arrancars of various kinds in order to fight the Royal Guards: he probably doesn't see Gotei 13 as an enemy, but just a tool to test the strength of his creations.
Gotei 13 captains are all under his hypnosis, so they're just puppets in Aizen's hands: if they attack him the same thing that happened to Hyori will happen to them... they will be cut in two by Gin or Tousen without even realizing it.
Anyway I think Aizen will retreat, at a certain point (where is besides my knowledge tough, because of the interference of Isshin (an unknown factor), who will come to save the day and his son from getting slaughtered.

Snake_Cowboy
December 05, 2009, 03:18 AM
I believe that, while Aizen is extremely powerful thanks to Kyouka Suigetsu, he did have some good reason to retreat from Soul Society after the truth about him was revealed. Most likely, his zanpakutou's ability does not make him completely invincible and he didn't want to risk fighting them all at the time. Aizen is a true strategist. In fact, it seems he's read Sun Tsu's 'The Art of War' and follows it to the letter; he doesn't just try to win, he maneouvres himself into a position that he absolutely cannot lose and grabs victory when it's right for the taking.

The fact that he retreated from Soul Society means that he wasn't certain of victory at the time.

There is probably some sort of catch to Kyouka Suigetsu's hypnosis and very powerful captains like Unohana and Yamamoto might be able to see through it. I suspect that Shinji may prove this. As a sidenote: the reason I believe Yamamoto hasn't acted yet is not because he's completely helpless against Aizen, but because he's using his captains and the Vizards to try and tire him out before he fights Aizen (as Yamamoto is older and his stamina is not what it used to be and he's under the influence of Aizen's zanpakutou, even he would want every advantage he could get before he steps in).

However, thanks to his retreat, Aizen has had plenty of time to experiment with the Hougyoku. If Tousen has Hollow powers, you know Aizen and Gin have them too. With the top 3 Espada and their fraccion used to wear out Soul Society and the Vizards and Aizen, Gin and Tousen having obtained even more power, Aizen's victory is almost assured.

Still, I'm getting the impression that Aizen has some sort of scheme already in mind and that it won't matter whether he wins or loses this battle. Either way, he'll somehow get his hands on the Royal Key. If Ichigo, the other captains, Urahara, Yoruichi, Isshin and Ryuuken arrive, he may retreat again, because he can't finish them off, but he'll still have succeeded in his plans to gain access to the Royal Palace.

drakend
December 05, 2009, 04:47 AM
Guys you seem to forget a nice thing: Unohana clearly states that Ichigo is the only shinigami able to take down Aizen, for the simple fact he hasn't seen Kyouka Suigetsu. This clearly implies that evrey other shinigami who saw Aizen's shikai is doomed, no matter how strong he is. Some people says Aizen's shikai MUST HAVE flaws: who says it has to be like this? Nobody, and there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to support this assumption. While there is plenty of evidence that Aizen can own the entire Gotei 13 by himself: mainly Unohana's speech, who is much more believable than some worshippers who write on these boards, imho.
Why didn't Aizen finish off the entire Gotei 13 at the end of SS then? Worshippers (of anybody but not Aizen, of course) says it's because he's not so strong after all, his shikai must have a flaw and other crap like that.
Nothing proves this (again!): it's just speculation which is presented as "obvious evidence" by the previous mentioned worshippers.
There are a lot of other possible expalantions: plot-hole (the editor wants to gain money from Bleach manga, you know...) or a much more believable thing... Aizen is preparing for the battle against the Royal Guards, who are entirely unknown to him, using Gotei 13 as a power comparison to test his creations' stength.

Gran Maestro
December 05, 2009, 06:01 AM
Guys you seem to forget a nice thing: Unohana clearly states that Ichigo is the only shinigami able to take down Aizen, for the simple fact he hasn't seen Kyouka Suigetsu. This clearly implies that evrey other shinigami who saw Aizen's shikai is doomed, no matter how strong he is. Some people says Aizen's shikai MUST HAVE flaws: who says it has to be like this? Nobody, and there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to support this assumption. While there is plenty of evidence that Aizen can own the entire Gotei 13 by himself: mainly Unohana's speech, who is much more believable than some worshippers who write on these boards, imho.

Sigh! :facepalm


Unohana only knows what Aizen told her and therefore makes an assumption based on this information. Aizen, on the other hand, knows his power better than anybody else and the same Aizen said that he never thought he could be stronger than all espada, implying that he's not invincible.


Why didn't Aizen finish off the entire Gotei 13 at the end of SS then? Worshippers (of anybody but not Aizen, of course) says it's because he's not so strong after all, his shikai must have a flaw and other crap like that.
Nothing proves this (again!): it's just speculation which is presented as "obvious evidence" by the previous mentioned worshippers.
There are a lot of other possible expalantions: plot-hole (the editor wants to gain money from Bleach manga, you know...) or a much more believable thing... Aizen is preparing for the battle against the Royal Guards, who are entirely unknown to him, using Gotei 13 as a power comparison to test his creations' stength.

I see. So this is "my speculation beats your speculation" kind of situation. Anyway, your plot hole explanation makes perfect sense. :p :D

drakend, you put too much faith on Aizen and you'll end up like the poor espada who believed Aizen. Until Aizen proves himself to be strong enough to defeat entire Gotei 13, there will be no evidence that he is able to do so. If you are stronger than me, you come defeat me. If you don't defeat me and retreat, then nobody believes you. If you believe that Aizen will retreat, you already accepted my opinion. ;)

drakend
December 05, 2009, 07:07 AM
drakend, you put too much faith on Aizen and you'll end up like the poor espada who believed Aizen. Until Aizen proves himself to be strong enough to defeat entire Gotei 13, there will be no evidence that he is able to do so. If you are stronger than me, you come defeat me. If you don't defeat me and retreat, then nobody believes you. If you believe that Aizen will retreat, you already accepted my opinion. ;)
Sigh! :D
If Aizen retreats it is because of the interference of someone unknown to the general plot, like Kurosaki ISSHIN.
If you believe, as a true Ichigo's worshipper, the dude will come and defeat Aizen you will be greatly disappointed!
Let's make a bet anyway: without interference I bet Aizen will take down all of the shinigami in Fake Karakura Town with Kyouka Suigetsu. You think this won't happen.
What will you do if I'm right? :D

Gran Maestro
December 05, 2009, 08:00 AM
Sigh! :D
If Aizen retreats it is because of the interference of someone unknown to the general plot, like Kurosaki ISSHIN.
If you believe, as a true Ichigo's worshipper, the dude will come and defeat Aizen you will be greatly disappointed!
Let's make a bet anyway: without interference I bet Aizen will take down all of the shinigami in Fake Karakura Town with Kyouka Suigetsu. You think this won't happen.
What will you do if I'm right? :D

Well, we know that Isshin does not have a major role in this arc, Kubo said so. What made you think I'm a Ichigo worshipper, I don't like the guy at all. :D It seems Ichigo is not strong enough to handle Aizen at this point, so I believe if Aizen retreats, the sole reason will not be Ichigo. Therefore if you won't count Ichigo as an interference, I can say Aizen is not strong enough to defeat everybody in FKT. Even if Isshin intervenes, it has to be at a point in which senior captains undeniably lost because otherwise we return back to square one.

THM Nindo
December 05, 2009, 08:23 AM
Well, we know that Isshin does not have a major role in this arc, Kubo said so. What made you think I'm a Ichigo worshipper, I don't like the guy at all. :D It seems Ichigo is not strong enough to handle Aizen at this point, so I believe if Aizen retreats, the sole reason will not be Ichigo. Therefore if you won't count Ichigo as an interference, I can say Aizen is not strong enough to defeat everybody in FKT. Even if Isshin intervenes, it has to be at a point in which senior captains undeniably lost because otherwise we return back to square one.

Aizen would not even flinch if Ichigo appear before him.
And even if Ichigo turn Ichigonator, I would be surprised to see an expression in Aizen's face.

There's just no way that Ichigo is strong enough right now, to even make Aizen think about retreating.

If Aizen retreat (he will most likely will), there are two reasons for that :
- That was his plan all along; while distracting the Gotei 13, something else was happening somewhere else.
- Someone else will come and could potentially fuck up his plan (ex: Urahara).

But, my own prediction : Ichigo appears with Unohana and see some old man where Aizen is standing. It was an illusion all along, and Aizen wasn't even there in the first place.

drakend
December 05, 2009, 09:57 AM
Well, we know that Isshin does not have a major role in this arc, Kubo said so.

Well saving the day in the last two or three chapters don't give someone a "major role" in that arc... who was centered on Ichigo and Orihime. So don't go assuming Isshin won't appear or won't save the day only because of what Kubo has said! :D



It seems Ichigo is not strong enough to handle Aizen at this point, so I believe if Aizen retreats, the sole reason will not be Ichigo.

Ichigo won't be the sole reason for Aizen to retreat? Are you kidding? Ichigo won't be even a factor... he will be just cut down as soon as he comes out of garganta... :D
"Trump Card" my ass... Unohana is wise and all, but she lost a ton of points for me if she believes Ichigo can be SS's trump card against Aizen.



Therefore if you won't count Ichigo as an interference, I can say Aizen is not strong enough to defeat everybody in FKT.
I don't even count Ichigo at all... so what will you do if Aizen owns all of the shinigamis in FKT?
I propose something:
1) if Aizen owns evreybody you write in your sign "I'm sorry I doubted you, drakend-sama!" for a month.
2) if Aizen is owned/retreats/whatever thus not winning because of the strength of the shinigamis in FKT ONLY, without external interferences then I'll write in my sign "I'm sorry I doubted you, Gran Maestro-sama!" for a month!

Is it fair with you? :D

Gran Maestro
December 05, 2009, 12:16 PM
Ichigo won't be the sole reason for Aizen to retreat? Are you kidding? Ichigo won't be even a factor... he will be just cut down as soon as he comes out of garganta... :D
"Trump Card" my ass... Unohana is wise and all, but she lost a ton of points for me if she believes Ichigo can be SS's trump card against Aizen.

I'm always a bit sceptical when it comes to main protagonists. I've seen them overcome seemingly impossible odds, we can never know what Kubo is planning for Ichigo.


I don't even count Ichigo at all... so what will you do if Aizen owns all of the shinigamis in FKT?
I propose something:
1) if Aizen owns evreybody you write in your sign "I'm sorry I doubted you, drakend-sama!" for a month.
2) if Aizen is owned/retreats/whatever thus not winning because of the strength of the shinigamis in FKT ONLY, without external interferences then I'll write in my sign "I'm sorry I doubted you, Gran Maestro-sama!" for a month!

Is it fair with you? :D

I don't do that kind of stuff and I disable signatures and avatars when I sign up to any forum. Since everybody knows our discussion, people will know which one of us was right, this is enough for me. There's no point in dramatizing the issue.

finalmichiel
December 06, 2009, 12:05 PM
I think Hacchi is also safe from KS....
Because I dont believe the Kido Corps is present at the inauguration of a new captain.....

kkck
December 06, 2009, 04:07 PM
I think Hacchi is also safe from KS....
Because I dont believe the Kido Corps is present at the inauguration of a new captain.....

I got the impression the kido corps had close ties with the shinigami. Just look at how fast they were to respond to the gotei 13 call. They immediately sent their captain and VC. I doubt aizen would have made a mistake like that.

finalmichiel
December 08, 2009, 03:38 PM
I got the impression the kido corps had close ties with the shinigami. Just look at how fast they were to respond to the gotei 13 call. They immediately sent their captain and VC. I doubt aizen would have made a mistake like that.

That was what I was thinking as well but I am still not sure if they are present at the captain presentation of Aizen XD

kkck
December 08, 2009, 05:31 PM
That was what I was thinking as well but I am still not sure if they are present at the captain presentation of Aizen XD

Not sure what the captain presentation of aizen has to do with this. Clearly aizen has had everyone worth noting in SS under the effect of his zampakuto for a long time even before the events of the gaiden. I mean, the guy had a random guy posing for an entire month and still not a single person noticed anything wrong. Aizen was the VC of the fith division for a long time and before that he certainly was for many years a shinigami. IMHO aizen had at the very least 150 years to put everyone under his illusion and that is more than enough time.