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kkck
December 01, 2009, 07:30 PM
Ok, this might sound crazy but hear me out. First off all this:
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_48#Volume_48.2C_Chapter_467.2C_Page_166

In other words, there have been through history several individuals with a particular DF.

Now, lets take a look at this two moments:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/99/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/100/01/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/100/20/

Now, how much of a coincidence is it that roger was conveniently saved by a change in the weather and years later luffy got saved by it as dragon appeared? What if dragon got whatever fruit roger had after the guys death? On top of that a fruit like this would help against a fruit like WB's. What do you all think?

bittman
December 01, 2009, 08:01 PM
Sounds crazy. You're crazy.

Well the assumption you're going by is that Dragon had no weather DF at the time of Roger's execution. Given that we know very little about Dragon and Roger, I can't discount your theory, but I just don't feel it's plausible. I also look suspiciously at the very heavy rain of Roger's execution whilst Dragon is present and Roger was seastone-cuffed.

Coincidence. Sure, I'd buy coincidence. Coincidence is what gets Luffy into most of his insane situations already.

Still, can't discount your theory. I also wouldn't be able to discount the theory that Blackbeard or Luffy picked up Roger's fruit.

JPD
December 01, 2009, 08:28 PM
The only problem I see with that theory is the narrator's statement during the Shiki vs. Roger.

"faced with almost certain doom... ...was save by a sudden freak weather storm"

If he did got the power, why not stating it? like: "Thanks to Rogers ability, the crew find a way out of Shiki's wrath."

My point is simple, if he got it, it's not a coincidence, if he don't got it, it's (for the moment) a coincidence.

Bugzee
December 01, 2009, 08:32 PM
Its a thought! I mean surely Roger must've had a fruit capable of countering WB's crazy one! I got the impression Roger has a DF related to weather-changing as well when I read the 0-Chapter.

For Dragon to gain Rogers' DF ability, well its possible! I would much prefer imho for Dragon to have a different DF ability to Roger's though!

Poneglyph420
December 02, 2009, 12:41 AM
Nice Idea. What I would tend to believe is Roger had the power to hear "the voice of all things". So he could "hear" there would be a storm and could act/react accordingly. But if he had a "storm" power like we saw from Dragon in Loguetown I'd be surprised. Roger seems like he had some "sixth sense" or something like that IMHO. Besides Dragon is so bad ass I'd hope he had a unique DF power.

I do like that we can see the SBS in your post saying that we will find the truth of the DF from Vegapunk later on...

kkck
December 02, 2009, 01:55 AM
Sounds crazy. You're crazy.

Well the assumption you're going by is that Dragon had no weather DF at the time of Roger's execution. Given that we know very little about Dragon and Roger, I can't discount your theory, but I just don't feel it's plausible. I also look suspiciously at the very heavy rain of Roger's execution whilst Dragon is present and Roger was seastone-cuffed.

Coincidence. Sure, I'd buy coincidence. Coincidence is what gets Luffy into most of his insane situations already.

Still, can't discount your theory. I also wouldn't be able to discount the theory that Blackbeard or Luffy picked up Roger's fruit.

The line between crazness and genius is very thin my friend.:p

Dunno, this convenient freak storms and weather changes don't seem like something which could be a coincidence. it is plausible dragon had something to do with the battle between roger and shiki though. I think it'd be cool if dragon got rogers fruit, it would give great insight of the power roger used to have(granted dragon could use it differently though).

Razh
December 02, 2009, 06:26 AM
The line between crazness and genius is very thin my friend.:p

Dunno, this convenient freak storms and weather changes don't seem like something which could be a coincidence. it is plausible dragon had something to do with the battle between roger and shiki though. I think it'd be cool if dragon got rogers fruit, it would give great insight of the power roger used to have(granted dragon could use it differently though).

If that storm was controlled by someone, then It's more likely that Dragon was in Roger's crew.
He has been a world's most wanted man for at least 5 years. World Government recognized him as a threat 10 years ago.
I guess it is possible that Roger's fruit respawned somewhere and that Dragon found it and ate it, but I don't think it's true.
If Roger's had that fruit, then crossing the Grand Line and reaching the end would have been a piece of cake.

Fox666
December 02, 2009, 02:52 PM
Not bad, but that's the author way of making plots, Roger was lucky that day, the same way Luffy was, just that.

If I am not wrong, once in a SBS the author commented that Buggy sword served as an attractive for the lightning. So, there is no DF, just some lucky coinscidences.

Razh
December 02, 2009, 06:10 PM
If I am not wrong, once in a SBS the author commented that Buggy sword served as an attractive for the lightning. So, there is no DF, just some lucky coinscidences.

You should really read that chapter again. While a lightning could have been an accident, the strong wind that appeared later doesn't look like one.
It was even colored green in anime.

Fox666
December 03, 2009, 03:02 AM
Well, Nami predicted that the time would change...

Razh
December 03, 2009, 04:39 AM
Well, Nami predicted that the time would change...

Nami predicted the weather by observing the clouds. It could also have been Dragon's doing.
Anyway, if you think that Dragon can't produce strong winds, I'll leave it at that.

Black Lagoon
December 03, 2009, 04:16 PM
If the weather theory is true (Chapter 0), why the hell didn't he began with it, I mean why didn't he started with that a weather attack from the beginning instead of waiting till beating the s**t out of half Shiki's crew, besides The sea was so heavy before the clash.

However, it could be a normal situation in One Piece, when two great forces are about to clash the weather changes (WhiteBeard and Shanks).

Bugzee
December 03, 2009, 07:20 PM
You know what, if Roger does have a weather-based DF, it makes sence for Oda to reveal it in the manga rather then in the side chapters. So thats maybe the reason why in chapter 0 they just stated how the weather changed to turn the tides I guess.

NoLimit89
December 03, 2009, 08:06 PM
Very good theory and completely plausible.

Either Roger died and Dragon found his fruit or Dragon was a part of Roger's crew. Both ideas would fit in nicely. The counter arguments to this aren't all that persuasive I'm afraid.

Anyways, can't wait to when the strawhats meets Vegapunk and he explains what devil fruits really are.

Antares
December 03, 2009, 09:14 PM
Ivankov said to Dragon "When the winds began to blow, you always faced the same direction. Could it be your animal homing instinct?"

i think it is really likely that Dragon's fruit is Dragon Dragon Fruit or Dora Dora No Mi or something similar.

This was taken from Wikipedia:


Chinese dragons are strongly associated with water in popular belief. They are believed to be the rulers of moving bodies of water, such as waterfalls, rivers, or seas. They can show themselves as water spouts (tornado or twister over water). In this capacity as the rulers of water and weather, the dragon is more anthropomorphic in form, often depicted as a humanoid, dressed in a king's costume, but with a dragon head wearing a king's headdress.

There are four major Dragon Kings, representing each of the four seas: the East Sea (corresponding to the East China Sea), the South Sea (corresponding to the South China Sea), the West Sea (sometimes seen as the Indian Ocean and beyond), and the North Sea (sometimes seen as Lake Baikal).

Because of this association, they are seen as "in charge" of water-related weather phenomenon. In premodern times, many Chinese villages (especially those close to rivers and seas) had temples dedicated to their local "dragon king". In times of drought or flooding, it was customary for the local gentry and government officials to lead the community in offering sacrifices and conducting other religious rites to appease the dragon, either to ask for rain or a cessation thereof.

The King of Wu-Yue in the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period was often known as the "Dragon King" or the "Sea Dragon King" because of his extensive hydro-engineering schemes which "tamed" the sea.

According to Japanese legends, dragons are water deities associated with floods and huge bodies of water (also from Wikipedia). So it's relevant and possible that Monkey D. Dragon's Fruit is one that changes him into a mystic dragon, which can control weather.

But about Roger? I don't know, i just can't see his powers as something animal-themed. "Hearing The Voice of All Things" seemed...i dunno, "cosmos-themed", if such an ability or fruit even exists.

kkck
December 03, 2009, 09:52 PM
Maybe roger heard all things through the wind....

RichardMNixon
December 04, 2009, 01:44 AM
Seems plausible but I'd be a little disappointed, like you need that fruit to be totally awesome.

My theory was that since Roger "heard the voice of all things" he knew the storm was coming and he took advantage of it in his battle with Shiki.
[hr]

Maybe roger heard all things through the wind....

That's a clever idea though.

Black Lagoon
December 04, 2009, 07:02 AM
Maybe roger heard all things through the wind....
As RichardMNixon said, That's a clever idea ...


:o So the line exists

The line between crazness and genius is very thin my friend.:p
:p

beastboy
December 07, 2009, 07:15 PM
IMO.. Roger had the same fruit has the vodoo guy.. I mean to ear the voice of all things sounds like vodoo.. and if he could see the odds of a storm saving his ship, he would be a lot stronger....

Or maybe he had the wooden wooden no mi.. and he created that steering wheel that is stuck at Shiki's head... xD!

kkck
December 07, 2009, 07:49 PM
IMO.. Roger had the same fruit has the vodoo guy.. I mean to ear the voice of all things sounds like vodoo.. and if he could see the odds of a storm saving his ship, he would be a lot stronger....

Or maybe he had the wooden wooden no mi.. and he created that steering wheel that is stuck at Shiki's head... xD!

Somehow roger does not strike me as a voodoo type lol. He also does not strike me as a strawman. On top of that we are not sure if that supernova's abilities come from a fruit. Even if he does have a fruit some of his abilities might not necessarily related to it (future reading and whatnot).

Razh
December 07, 2009, 07:59 PM
Somehow roger does not strike me as a voodoo type lol. He also does not strike me as a strawman. On top of that we are not sure if that supernova's abilities come from a fruit. Even if he does have a fruit some of his abilities might not necessarily related to it (future reading and whatnot).

He does have straws attached to the cards when calculating the odds. That's right, he's calculating and even saying percentages. It's not a prediction.
Also, he may have attached some straws to those people that get hurt instead of him. The man with the shortest straw, meaning the closest to Hawkins receives the first hit, then the next, and so on and so on.
Yeah, I think it's all related to his fruit.

RichardMNixon
December 07, 2009, 09:37 PM
He does have straws attached to the cards when calculating the odds. That's right, he's calculating and even saying percentages. It's not a prediction.
Also, he may have attached some straws to those people that get hurt instead of him. The man with the shortest straw, meaning the closest to Hawkins receives the first hit, then the next, and so on and so on.
Yeah, I think it's all related to his fruit.

He's holding the cards with straw, but that doesn't necessarily mean the fortunetelling requires it.

Razh
December 08, 2009, 06:27 AM
He's holding the cards with straw, but that doesn't necessarily mean the fortunetelling requires it.

You don't really believe that, do you?

He's just holding his cards with straws for kicks then. He can't put them on a table. He needs to hold them in the air with his straws...

P.S. It's not fortunetelling if he calculates percentages.

Poneglyph420
December 08, 2009, 02:31 PM
I'm glad people are interested in MY theory about Roger hearing the "voice of the wind". I really think this could be the case, and I wouldn't be upset if that's his power DF or not. Roger could of potentially been one step ahead of everyone...that's a pretty sick power IMO.

Hawkins uses the straws to hold the cards as a part of his power. Sure seems like it's required to do his divination...

Razh
December 08, 2009, 03:04 PM
I'm glad people are interested in MY theory about Roger hearing the "voice of the wind". I really think this could be the case, and I wouldn't be upset if that's his power DF or not. Roger could of potentially been one step ahead of everyone...that's a pretty sick power IMO.


Then how do you suppose hearing the wind allowed him to read and write poneglyphs?

Why would Rayleigh hide Roger's power in metaphors, why not just say - "he could hear the voice of wind" instead of -"he could hear the voice of all things", unless he meant that wind was the voice of all things, but then why not just say that the wind is voice of all things?

If the wind could speak to Roger about the past and old dead languages, then it would mean that the wind itself is magical or supernatural. And it's just a movement of air.
I don't think it's a complete improbability, but you need to work on it a little.

Poneglyph420
December 08, 2009, 08:31 PM
Then how do you suppose hearing the wind allowed him to read and write poneglyphs?

Why would Rayleigh hide Roger's power in metaphors, why not just say - "he could hear the voice of wind" instead of -"he could hear the voice of all things", unless he meant that wind was the voice of all things, but then why not just say that the wind is voice of all things?

If the wind could speak to Roger about the past and old dead languages, then it would mean that the wind itself is magical or supernatural. And it's just a movement of air.
I don't think it's a complete improbability, but you need to work on it a little.


I suppose that "hearing the voice of all things" is like telepathy/empathy or some sort of "sixth sense". I would hope he could hear more than just the wind if it's the "voice of all things". But indeed the wind would be one of many things that would speak to Roger, if my assumptions are correct.

kkck
December 08, 2009, 11:37 PM
I'm glad people are interested in MY theory about Roger hearing the "voice of the wind". I really think this could be the case, and I wouldn't be upset if that's his power DF or not. Roger could of potentially been one step ahead of everyone...that's a pretty sick power IMO.

Hawkins uses the straws to hold the cards as a part of his power. Sure seems like it's required to do his divination...

What theory is this lol? Since when my joke from a few posts ago -don't really recall reading a theory like that anyways- is your theory lol?

Poneglyph420
December 09, 2009, 12:49 AM
What theory is this lol? Since when my joke from a few posts ago -don't really recall reading a theory like that anyways- is your theory lol?

In my first post in this thread I theorized that Roger's Df had to do with some sort of sixth sense. That's all i Meant.

LOL.

Vexor
February 20, 2010, 10:33 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/07/

could it be that it was the mantra what he meant back there?
gol d was in skypia after all...

Fox666
February 20, 2010, 11:43 PM
Hmm, that's quite a good point... there is some correlation.

But I have my own theory about Haki. Boa sisters did the same as mantra against Luffy. They could predict his moves. I suppose that "mantra" is just how Haki is know in Sky Island. No wonder, Haki is not that well know all around the world, there should be places with different names.

Lord Rayleigh
February 21, 2010, 06:51 AM
I think what Rayleigh talked about was Mantra. Roger had the best mantra ever known in this world : the power to hear the human body'sounds AND the objects'sounds. That's why he was able to understand the meaning of the poneglyph even if he was not able to read them.
After all, Luffy managed to foresee Mihawks cutting his arm at MHQ, and Zoro was able to hear the voices of a palm leaf, of rock and of metal in Alabasta and we all know there was no DF involved there.
And the " voices " word fits with what Gan Forr said about Mantra.

Fox666
February 21, 2010, 11:24 AM
I agree with Zoro's have something to do with it, but Luffy just noticed Mihawk noticed his attack with his super-sight...

Lord Rayleigh
February 21, 2010, 05:48 PM
I agree with Zoro's have something to do with it, but Luffy just noticed Mihawk noticed his attack with his super-sight...
While Mihawks was standing in front of him and he was about to attack, he saw in his mind Mihawks cutting his arm. Sight cannot explain it.

THM Nindo
February 21, 2010, 11:07 PM
Maybe Roger didn't have a devil fruit at all...
He was said to have the King's Haki, no!?

As for the hearing part, I also believe it might have been mantra-related.

Maybe he was powerful enough with that, and he didn't need a devil fruit.
Just look at Shanks... he doesn't have a devil fruit, and yet he's considered as one of the 4 greatest pirates.

If you go to the extreme, maybe a strong will can be enough to even alter stuff... like weather... who knows?

The will doesn't only affect the living...
We had some example of the will affecting objects (Shanks break stuff on WB boat, Rayleigh break the neck chain of the slaves, etc).

Maybe, it could even explain how Rouge managed to keep Ace in her womb for 20 months... it's the the Will of a D., strong enough to even bent the extreme to its will.

I think that was the power of Gol D. Roger...
His Will was the strongest of all...

tret16
August 29, 2010, 04:46 PM
I was thinking lately about what type of ability that Roger might have. As the pirate king he had to be a beast no dought about that. Even stronger then Whitebeard who seem to have a very strong Devil Fruit.

So what i would like to know from all of you is what ability do you think Gol D Roger had other then his Haki abilities?

I for one think that Roger didn't have a Devil Fruit ability. That would just make him seem even stronger and more of a beast. The fact that Rayleigh doesn't have an ability and is known to be so strong is also a hint for me that Roger doesn't have one but that alone isn't the reason i think that since for luffy's firstmate Zoro doesn't have an ability and he is strong also... Another the other reason why i think he didn't have an ability is because of Shanks, he doesn't seem to possess an ability and i think that i learned to be strong and didn't want to have a Devil Fruit ability in memory of his captain...

Well that's all i can thnk of so let me know your idea's on what type of a ability Gol D Roger has, if any.

Thread merged. Already existed one with the same topic.

Zehahaha
August 29, 2010, 05:07 PM
I do think that he had exeptional physical power + haki, especially Haoshoku Haki... I mean, i find it strange that when Luffy used Haoshoku in Marinford everybody was " WTF ! ", i mean, if it's only limited to make people faint, that's not really that useful against good fighters and that wouldn't explain the reaction of Sengoku, Aokiji... That's why i believe that Haoshoku is more than making people faint, and I think that only Roger managed to really master it.

Anyway, i'd be deceived if he had a DF

tret16
August 29, 2010, 05:32 PM
ya i jalfto agree, i think that's why he was so famous. He managed to be as good as he was without having a Devil Fruit power...

LeDuck
September 03, 2010, 12:49 PM
After thinking a bit about the latest chapter, there is something that came to my mind. First, let's look at all the information we have:

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-507/page003.html
Gol D Roger is able to understand the meaning of the Poneglyph and leaves a message with the ancient letters.

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-507/page005.html
Rayleigh admits that Roger wasn't able to decipher the letters.

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-507/page006.html
Rayleigh says that Roger had the power to hear the "voice of all things".

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-597/page012.html
In the latest chapter, Rayleigh told us about the "color of observation", where you can be aware of someone's presence and predict his movement.

Now let's go back a bit, remember when Zoro fought Mr. 1? When he was almost dying, this happened:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-195/page016.html
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-195/page017.html

Zoro was able to feel the presence of objects, which he described as "breathing", which means he already developed a bit of the color of observation.

Now let's assume that the "voice of all things" simply means that Roger had a never seen before strong affinity to the color of observation, which allowed to go to the point of understanding the presence of everything. So, when he was in front of a poneglyph, he couldn't read the letters, but he understood the intent / the message, because he was able to hear, what the poneglyph was trying to tell. Technically it was developed to the point, where he wasn't able to feel them breathe, but to hear them "speak".

I'm not too sure how he was able to write in letters he didn't understand, but it could have something to do with it.

Any thoughts?

Poneglyph420
September 03, 2010, 01:07 PM
After thinking a bit about the latest chapter, there is something that came to my mind. First, let's look at all the information we have:

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-507/page003.html
Gol D Roger is able to understand the meaning of the Poneglyph and leaves a message with the ancient letters.

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-507/page005.html
Rayleigh admits that Roger wasn't able to decipher the letters.

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-507/page006.html
Rayleigh says that Roger had the power to hear the "voice of all things".

http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-597/page012.html
In the latest chapter, Rayleigh told us about the "color of observation", where you can be aware of someone's presence and predict his movement.

Now let's go back a bit, remember when Zoro fought Mr. 1? When he was almost dying, this happened:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-195/page016.html
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-195/page017.html

Zoro was able to feel the presence of objects, which he described as "breathing", which means he already developed a bit of the color of observation.

Now let's assume that the "voice of all things" simply means that Roger had a never seen before strong affinity to the color of observation, which allowed to go to the point of understanding the presence of everything. So, when he was in front of a poneglyph, he couldn't read the letters, but he understood the intent / the message, because he was able to hear, what the poneglyph was trying to tell. Technically it was developed to the point, where he wasn't able to feel them breathe, but to hear them "speak".

I'm not too sure how he was able to write in letters he didn't understand, but it could have something to do with it.

Any thoughts?

I whole heartedly agree that Roger could have had an amazing affinity to the "color of observation" Haki, and from that amazing ability "heard the voice of all things"

I'd also go as far to say that there is a chance Roger's "C.O.O." affinity might have a contributing factor to his ability to navigate to Raftel. It's crazy and totally unfounded but I have been thinking there has to be a reason why it's such a difficult and mysterious place to find..

THM Nindo
September 03, 2010, 02:40 PM
I agree with whoever is saying that "hearing all things" is just the mastering of the color of observation.

And we already saw that once, when Zoro was able to "hear" the metal, and after that he was able to cut it.

Spaceman-Spiff
September 03, 2010, 04:48 PM
Nah, I'm beting it's a devil's fruit power.

Roger was able to understand the poneglyphs though he doesn't have the knowledge to "read" them. You can't do that with haki.

Organizized
September 04, 2010, 04:16 AM
What always made me sceptic against Roger having eaten a Devil Fruit is that if he had, I don't think his crew would be talking about DF's in this way (http://www.mangareader.net/103-2068-15/one-piece/chapter-19.html). Unless he kept his Devil Fruit powers unknown to his crew, which isn't completely impossible I guess, since it does sound like it would be a pretty discreet ability. Still, I agree with the others. I don't think it's a DF ability.

chess4
September 04, 2010, 04:58 AM
naw i dont think gold rogers had a fruit power, i think he developed all 3 haki's to such a degree that it allowed him 2 hear the voice of all things.

rogers must have been an animal. i hope we get 2 see him in a battle through a flashback

Uriel
September 04, 2010, 11:50 AM
Nah, I'm beting it's a devil's fruit power.
Roger was able to understand the poneglyphs though he doesn't have the knowledge to "read" them. You can't do that with haki.
How you know that?
We barely know about Haki and Poneglyphs and we've yet to see how them react together. :/

tret16
September 04, 2010, 12:11 PM
maybe that what the "will of D" means... i mean maybe luffy just hasn't fully developed the "will of D" yet, remember Roger was alot older when he traveled the grandline so he had more experience... we have yet to be told what the "will of D" is afterall.

$nipe
September 04, 2010, 02:09 PM
If zoro actually develops it, he will NEVER get lost again, that's for sure. Perhaps he will now be the one who will tell everyone where to go, since he could feel people and all things.

Skyrius
September 04, 2010, 09:18 PM
Oh. Oh.

I just had an idea take hold. It doesn't make as much sense, but it's a possibility.

There's no proof that the ancient civilizations weren't aware of haki as well.

What if, and this is only an if, the Poneglyphs are designed to react to haki. I wouldn't know how, but what if there's actually a mechanism to deciphering them besides simply learning the ancient language. And with Roger's mastery over haki (which I assume he had), he could read and write in the ancient language.

I do agree in that I think Roger's unique ability with some sort of haki, or maybe a combination of more than one kind, was his "ability to hear the voice of all things".

masubiladin
September 04, 2010, 11:54 PM
Oh damn... you are faster than me lol... I just remember today about what Rayleigh said to Robin that Roger have the power to hear "all thing" ... And that my friend is indeed as you said the color of observation. Its just too powerful! I will bet stop reading one piece in 2 weeks!!!

Ratatosk
September 06, 2010, 10:34 AM
This theory was around a while ago, there's more to back it up now though. It was just such a random thing for Rayleigh to say, until you re-read/watched Zoro's fight when he can hear the sound of steel. (When I first watched the episode with Rayleigh in the bar I was like 'oh wow, the poneglyphs could be alive', this makes far more sense though, gotta love drunken theories).
But even so, Roger could maybe understand the inscription without being able to read the language by 'Listening' to it with Haki, but doesn't explain how he managed to add his own 'Roger woz here' message in Skypeia.

Haki could explain how the Poneglyphs are indestructible. Although that could just be awesome lost technology.

Leaving your history in only one language when some unknown enemy is trying to wipe you out is a big assumption that there'll be someone in the future who can read it (unless some Poneglyphs are Rosetta Stones or whatever, but then the Government wouldn't have needed Robin). It would make sense for there to be another mechanism for the right people to read them.

Fox666
September 06, 2010, 01:27 PM
Maybe the poneglyph are made of the same material of the Pacifista... well, a solid block of stell is almost indestructible. So imagine a metal even harder... probably Marineford walls are also made of it.

MaiSiaoSiao
September 06, 2010, 07:42 PM
If you guys been watching the anime up to now(Battle at MarineFord)
''Buddha'' Sengoku said that WhiteBeard is the man with the power to destroy the world because of his Gura Gura fruit.
And throughout the anime,we've heard many people saying that WhiteBeard is the only man to fight on par with Gol D Roger.
So i was wondering what is Gol D Roger power?So strong as to be on par with a Quack Man.




If this has been posted before,DO NOT FLAME ME
just tell me and i'll closed this thread.

El-Thor
September 06, 2010, 08:25 PM
So strong as to be on par with a Quack Man.



Madness ? THIS IS QUACK MAN !!! lol :p

tret16
September 06, 2010, 08:56 PM
lol, i honestly don't think he had a Devil fruit ability. I think he was able to compete with Whitebeard because he was SOOOO good at haki and brought it to a whole knew level and also had such a level head on him... He seemed to be a very smart kid.

kkck
September 07, 2010, 07:59 AM
I think gold roger ultimately did have an ability. Haki is an important tool and makes a huge difference but ultimately in a normal human it can merely boost human abilities. Fruits powers on the other hand make the user kinda super human, it alters them in a way such that they can do things humans could never regularly hope to accomplish. Lets say we have a human who completely masters haki. Then, lets say that same human is given a DF fruit power and has moderate control over said power. Lets further say we have the non DF version against the DF version fight. Who'd win? It is extremely unlikely a DF would actually not benefit a fighter (worst case scenario the ability gain does not benefit combat but does not hurt it either) so in that sense what we have is that the DF version of the guy would win simply because he has a power. Haki in OP is not quite the same as in other manga. It won't give the user special or unique abilities for the most part. Heck, according to one of the OP databooks, fruits make such a ridiculous difference that one of the reasons BB waited for so long for that fruit is that he knew ability users would be in his way. In that sense the importance of abilities is so absurd that BB, being strong enough to fight shanks, still chose to give up his ambition if he did not run into the ability he wanted.

HAKI IS NOT A DF REPLACEMENT BECAUSE DF USERS CAN USE HAKI TO THE EXACT SAME EXTENT NON DF USERS CAN. Surely it is possible to stand up to DF users without having abilities but that is a rare thing to the point where so far we know of a handful of people at most who can rise to such a level. That said, those handful of people would still become more than exponentially stronger if they did take a DF. Imagine giving mihawk mr 1's fruit or giving garp a zoan fruit. How absurd would that be? It'd be ridiculous at least.

Lets imagine another scenario. How can someone plausibly fight WB in the sea? WB has control over quakes, which to a great degree means control over the ocean. If you are in a sea battle, what could plausibly be a greater advantage over that? As a matter of fact, WB's ability makes it so that any turf works as his home turf just for the inherent control he has over land and water. Can anyone imagine what would have happened in marineford if aokiji had not been a stupidly powerful logia users? They would have been hit by the full force of two huge tsunamis a couple seconds into the fight.

Magellan's physical capacity was not in itself a big deal at all, if anything it was severely lacking considering a worthless rookie like luffy actually managed to keep up with him. Magellan was the threat he was solely because of his ability, his ability made a stupidly huge difference.

Roger had position, power, wealth.... I have no doubt his sheer physical capacity was extraordinary and his haki was awesome but considering everything I do think he must have had a DF power to make it to where he did. It is certainly possible to make it as an ordinary human to a position of power (we have garp, shanks, mihawk, sengoku (assuming his power is like zoro's rather than a DF ability)) but having an ability just makes that much of a difference.

Another scenario which I thought would be awesome is garp with luffy's fruit. Just the thought of garp going into gear 2 or going into gear 3 with haki would be so ridiculous its not even funny. Heck, if he had had something like that perhaps "cornering" the pirate king would not have been as far as he could have gone.

tret16
September 07, 2010, 10:07 AM
i understand your reasoning on that, but that still doesn't mean that he could have concured the entire land without a DF. I mean you just said it yourself in your post that a person could rise to power without it but a DF would make it easier. What if Gol D. Roger simply didnt take the easy way and decided to do it with his own strength and no DF. It was stated that he was better then Whitebeard but that didn't say it was because he had a stronger fruit ability. Heck i wouldn't even be able to think of one that stronger then his other then Akainu's ability. I'm thinking that's why he was SO famous. Because he was able to do everything that he did without a DF. Someone who can beat Whitebeard without a DF would be known as a king of anything don't you think... It would just prove on how strong he was in his era. I think it would be a great plot if that was the case. Luffy would most likely gain even MORE respect for Gol D. Roger if he finds something like that out about his idol.

Cizuz
September 07, 2010, 10:59 AM
I do think that he had exeptional physical power + haki, especially Haoshoku Haki... I mean, i find it strange that when Luffy used Haoshoku in Marinford everybody was " WTF ! ", i mean, if it's only limited to make people faint, that's not really that useful against good fighters and that wouldn't explain the reaction of Sengoku, Aokiji... That's why i believe that Haoshoku is more than making people faint, and I think that only Roger managed to really master it.

Anyway, i'd be deceived if he had a DF
It not really that, they were surprised because a rookie could use it. I am sure it exists in the marines, but everyone with that type of haki has become a ruler, so seeing him have it is a HUGE threat, that his potential could be limitless. That or just it's extremely rare and they were surprised.

kkck
September 07, 2010, 11:38 AM
i understand your reasoning on that, but that still doesn't mean that he could have concured the entire land without a DF. I mean you just said it yourself in your post that a person could rise to power without it but a DF would make it easier. What if Gol D. Roger simply didnt take the easy way and decided to do it with his own strength and no DF. It was stated that he was better then Whitebeard but that didn't say it was because he had a stronger fruit ability. Heck i wouldn't even be able to think of one that stronger then his other then Akainu's ability. I'm thinking that's why he was SO famous. Because he was able to do everything that he did without a DF. Someone who can beat Whitebeard without a DF would be known as a king of anything don't you think... It would just prove on how strong he was in his era. I think it would be a great plot if that was the case. Luffy would most likely gain even MORE respect for Gol D. Roger if he finds something like that out about his idol.

I don't think not having a DF is something that would make someone famous in OP world. Fruits are largely unknown to the vast majority of the population so I'd find it strange that people would go famous for not having one. That said, roger having a "better" ability than someone else has nothing to do with the whole thing. Ultimately having an ability does make a difference but necessarily having a better ability does not win battles. Battles between fruit users depend on both, how the actual abilities match up and how an ability is used.

Antares
September 08, 2010, 11:56 PM
Rayleigh can use color of observation Haki, and apparently he still said tht Roger has the ability to hear the voice of all things. I think it lead to two possibilities:

1. Roger has extreme degree of Color of Observation mastery, no one else can reach.

2. Another discipline of skill (i.e. Eaten a Devil Tree, where all DF was originated from? =p)

Theory: One of the two possibilities mastered, when WB Quaked him, he can see every single seawater molecule and vibration motion coming at him with perfect precision and calculation. Furthermore, not only to this extent, he also reach the point where by activating his "listening", he knows secret of universal code (i.e. how to make neurons uncapable of transmitting knowledge / memory signal to the body, as in how to make an opponent doesn't know how to think or to move). He still wins the fight.

hdiuy
September 11, 2010, 10:39 PM
In the past i always thought of Roger as a man without any DF abilities. And that the reason he was able to beat WB was because Roger was somehow able to see the weakness in the quake (like a crack in the incoming quake attack or something).

kkck
September 11, 2010, 11:48 PM
I used to imagine roger as someone roughly like mihawk and whatnot but seeing how the story has developed I can't imagine roger not having an ability. Abilities in OP are unquestionably important and there really is no replacement or substitute for one. Not to mention that roger being some sort of disciplined martial artist is not quite something which I think would fit him.

Skyrius
September 12, 2010, 01:17 AM
We haven't confirmed Roger's ability/mastery. It's still a possibility is that it was an ability specific to only him, although the mastery of the color of observation does have its roots in some merit. Honestly, there's just hasn't been enough info on Roger OR haki to draw a conclusion. I'm still against Roger having a Devil Fruit. That just, well it doesn't make him less badass, but it certainly ruins the impact. Besides, his crew seemed like the type not to go for those sorts of things (Shanks and Rayleigh so far have proven to be just extremely kickass normals).

kkck
September 12, 2010, 02:45 AM
If you think about it, the manga has never made any form of implication that roger did not have or did have a DF. Oda has made it a point to not mention or reveal what exactly were roger's abilities or what made him strong. Raileight did not have a fruit but other than that we really do not know much. IMO though, roger and his crew would be a lot more interesting if they had DF abilities. They'd be far more unique and would have a lot more to show other than martial arts.

Another thing, DF don't necessarily fundamentally alter a body or provide offensive abilities. The powers granted by a DF can be of esentially any kind. In that sense, it is also possible roger had a fruit but it did not change his body nor it increased his fighting capacity in the same manner it would do buggy or WB. Something I was thinking is that he could have been a "sensing man". Basically a fruit that takes his 5 senses and enhances them to ridiculous levels. It'd fit the description given by raighleit by would be extremely useful in battle and if used with observation haki it could be very useful. Enhanced senses would allow him to react extraordinarily well in a fight and perceive things others normally would. It would also allow him to literally experience life in a way no other person could. For someone who rejoiced even in his death, a fruit like that would be extremely fitting since he'd be able to enjoy things like food, alcohol, sex, sightseeing, pain and a number of other things to a degree no other person ever could have. As I mentioned before, this fruit coupled with observation haki could also be potentially useful to a great extreme. If observation haki counts as a sense, then he'd also be able to use it in a way very few others could, perhaps even better than what enel could.

tret16
September 12, 2010, 11:15 AM
You know, i'm one of the people that thinks it would be more kickass if he didn't have a DF, but what you just said would be pretty awesome also. A DF like that would deffinitly allow Roger to seem way stronger and also still keep his badass image of a guy without a DF. Even though he had one, since he didn't use any noticeable technique everyone would just assume that he wasn't a DF user except for his crew. The only reason why i say he doesn't have one is because of Rayleigh, Shanks and also the flashback with Buggy eating the fruit. The way the crew talked and how rayleigh and shanks acted, it was almost like the whole crew wasn't DF users. It made it sound like it was a rarety that one of there crew members ate DFs.

johnnyb7
September 13, 2010, 09:24 PM
i don't think he had a power actually. I think he just had a lot of raw power.