PDA

View Full Version : Discussion Kubo's Engrish and Españor



R4zr
December 02, 2009, 06:07 AM
All right guys, let's set some rules first :

-This thread is not intended to bash Kubo, but instead its primary purpose is to have lulz over some titles and other stuff he mispelled.

-Anyone who recalls some epic mistake can post it here.


I'll start with the few things i actually remember XD

-Four arms to killing you
-Wolves ain't howl alone
-Cero oscuras
-Thank you for defend me

Feel free to continue :D

Also feel free to use this thread to discuss the chapter titles in general ^^

Zangetsutan
December 02, 2009, 11:23 AM
If you call me beast,kill you like tempest lol

but maybe he just purposely made them that way to sound cool?like six hearts will beat as one,the knuckle debate & knockdown monsters just sound epic to me:)

kkck
December 02, 2009, 02:30 PM
I agree, those aren't nesesarily mistakes. They are probably made that way so that japanese people who are not familiar with spanish can pronounce the titles since there are a few sounds in spanish that do not exist in japanese.

Also, cero oscuras also has a meaning in both, japanese and spanish. making gramatically correct in spanish would probably make it meaningless in japanese. The same would be for almost any name used by the arrancar so far. The bleach wikia is surprisingly helpful in that, they translate every name for the two languages.

conn-man
December 02, 2009, 10:06 PM
hes been naming his chapters with that broken english since the beginning so i have to asume he knows what hes doing. also i love the way the titles are worded, its very clever and cool.

Rainier
December 03, 2009, 12:33 AM
''Cero oscuras'' is actually a mistake. If he wanted to say Dark Zeros then it would be ''Ceros oscuros''.

Also, even though they are probably intended mistakes I don't like them D:
With enough knowledge and creativity you can even make the word Incest sound cool. So I don't think that's a valid excuse. That's just me though xD.

Btw~ He also uses German.

kkck
December 03, 2009, 12:40 AM
''Cero oscuras'' is actually a mistake. If he wanted to say Dark Zeros then it would be ''Ceros oscuros''.

Also, even though they are probably intended mistakes I don't like them D:
With enough knowledge and creativity you can even make the word Incest sound cool. So I don't think that's a valid excuse. That's just me though xD.

Btw~ He also uses German.

cero oscuras is not a mistake. kubo makes the kanji so that it has a meaning in spanish and Japanese. cero oscuras is Japanese for black hollow flash. Obviously in spanish it is not gramatically correct but you have to consider it still sounds cool for his mainly Japanese readers.

Rainier
December 03, 2009, 12:55 AM
But it is a mistake. You said it yourself. I made it obvious enough that I meant it was a grammatical mistake, hence the correction.

And as I said, I don't think that just because It ''sounds cool'' is an excuse for him to write it like that. He can do better.

Exodi
December 03, 2009, 12:57 AM
I agree with kkck. Kubo does use correct Spanish elsewhere. And he does look up terms, often replacing words with other words he thinks sound cooler. I think "Cero oscuras" was done on purpose. It's wrong, but not a mistake, imo.



English, too. There are so many titles in proper grammar that I doubt those in the original post are "mistakes".

I love his use of Spanish, btw. I don't see that in any other anime/manga. Every arrancar zanpakutou name is damn cool, except for Yammy's. "Ira" sucks.

Rainier
December 03, 2009, 01:05 AM
It is a mistake, it isn't an error. ^^

Jiggy-Ninja
December 03, 2009, 02:37 AM
cero oscuras is not a mistake. kubo makes the kanji so that it has a meaning in spanish and Japanese. cero oscuras is Japanese for black hollow flash. Obviously in spanish it is not gramatically correct but you have to consider it still sounds cool for his mainly Japanese readers.
You have a misunderstanding about how this works.

For one thing, Japanese and Spanish have totally different grammar structures, so some of the double meanings in there are downright impossible using your interpretation.

Kanji are ideograms, and stand for a specific meaning, not a pronunciation. There are typical ways to pronounce them, but the kanji's pronunciation can be changed with Furigana.

Note: If you want to know what I'm talking about with Furigana, go look at a raw for some shounen manga (Bleach is one). Either directly next to or above most of the Kanji will be a set of smaller characters. Those are Furigana, and are used to denote the pronunciation of that Kanji.

I'll use a few examples, for illustration.

In Death Note, the kanji for the main character's name is 夜神 月. Normally, this would be pronounced Yagami Tsuki, or possibly Yagami Getsu. However, the last character is written with the Furigana ライト, meaning that it is pronounced Raito, which is the closest that Japanese can get to mimicking the English word "light".

One thing I've noticed in One Piece lately is that Oda will use the kanji 能力 (ability), usually pronounced nouryoku, and uses furigana that makes it pronounced chikara, a related but subtly different word.

Let's take Cero in Bleach. It is written with the Kanji 虚閃, which would normally pronounced kosen or kyosen, and has the meaning "empty flash". However, it is written with the Furigana セロ, in order to imitate the Spanish word Cero, meaning "zero".

That is where the double meaning comes from. I hope you understood that.

There is a manga-ka that has done what you are thinking of though: Kishimoto Masashi, Naruto's manga-ka. Some of the techniques that he has had Killer Bee, Raikage, and Darui use use proper (though not typical) readings of kanji to create an English word with their pronunciation. These techniques that I can think of right now are Lariat, Ranton: Laser Circus, Elbow, and Guillotine Drop.

Rainier
December 03, 2009, 10:17 AM
I never said it was a mistake in Japanese. I said that the right way to write it in Spanish would be what I previously corrected.
It may not be a mistake in the japanese pronunciation, but it doesn't make sense in spanish.
Therefore it's a mistake in the spanish grammar, but maybe not in the japanese pronunciation.

kkck
December 03, 2009, 10:55 AM
I never said it was a mistake in Japanese. I said that the right way to write it in Spanish would be what I previously corrected.
It may not be a mistake in the japanese pronunciation, but it doesn't make sense in spanish.
Therefore it's a mistake in the spanish grammar, but maybe not in the japanese pronunciation.

I still don't get what the problem is(it is starting to sound as if you just want to complain). Obviously the priority is Japanese and kubo is trying to be cool by making it sound similar to spanish. I doubt kubo could make it sound perfect in Spanish and have it make sense in Japanese. On another note, this is what cero oscuras sounds like when ulquiorra says it: sero osukyurasu. Even the exact pronunciation is hard to get right lol.

@ jiggy
Thanks for the info, that was really helpful.

Rainier
December 03, 2009, 05:17 PM
The problem is that it IS a mistake even if it sounds cool or not :P

Again, a grammar mistake in spanish. People keep saying it isn't, even when my point is clear, lol.

And, if it's going to 'sound cool' in japanese anyway, why the need of writing 2 other languages the wrong way?

After all, it's for Japanese people.

kiddo7
December 03, 2009, 05:18 PM
hey guys, sorry for being that guy, and I will admit it is a rather interesting discussion, but isn't it starting to go a little off topic? I mean, I'm not feeling the lulz.

slmcknett
December 03, 2009, 07:54 PM
How about...

236) The Sun Already Gone Down
286) Guillotine You Standing
293) Urge For Unite
325) Fear for Fight
363) Superchunky From Hell (not incorrect, but still funny to say)

Oh, and what the hell does [Discordeque Mix] mean? And how do you even pronounce it? I've been saying "diss-cord-uh-kay", but I'm not too sure...

igotthegoods
December 04, 2009, 06:41 PM
hey guys, sorry for being that guy, and I will admit it is a rather interesting discussion, but isn't it starting to go a little off topic? I mean, I'm not feeling the lulz.

Yeah, I didn't realize this was going to turn into a more serious and interesting discussion when I merged it into the humor thread. Sorry, my bad. :sweat I decided to unmerge this back into a separate topic for now. :amuse

R4zr
December 11, 2009, 07:14 AM
I think we can add "Vice it" and "Grillar Grillo" to the list...

Sinedd
December 13, 2009, 03:24 AM
I think we can add "Vice it" and "Grillar Grillo" to the list...

Would does "Vice it" mean anyway?

vizardichigo
December 13, 2009, 03:52 AM
Is Vice it an error????? Well anyway, right or wrong his chapters have the coolest and most original names of any manga out there so i dont mind at all..

Exodi
December 13, 2009, 03:58 AM
Would does "Vice it" mean anyway?

Well, let's look up the word "vice".
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vice

In this case, how does that apply?

Tousen's vice: being a part of the Gotei 13, which Tousen believes has its own vices and blah blah. (*coughtousensuckscough*)



Not sure why the "it" is there....it's pretty strange.

javimgol
December 13, 2009, 07:20 AM
Kubo's Spanish is 60% pathetic.
Good ideas: Glotonería, Murciélago, El Verdugo, Los Lobos, Resurrección, Pantera

Strange ideas: Fornicarás (you'll fuck, literally, in Spanish), Lanza del Relámpago, Santa Teresa, Sonido (sound, in Spanish, if he says that it's because Hollows fly at sound speed it's a bit sad)

Lame: Arrogante (there are tons of synonimous of arrogant in Spanish that could fit better), Tiburón (Escualo would have been great), Ira, Cero Oscuras, Brujería, Sonido Gemelo, La Muerte (an attack so lame doesn´t deserve that name), Lanza Verde

WTF?: Grilla Grillo

requiem46
December 13, 2009, 07:30 AM
WTF?: Grilla Grillo


I'd guess he was trying to say "Grita, Grillo" which is exactly the same as the command for his zanpakuto's shikai, only in Spanish instead of Japaneses. But either he or the translators failed

kkck
December 13, 2009, 04:11 PM
Actually grillar does have a meaning in spanish lol. I just looked it up:
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=grillar

That is a weird verb lol


Kubo's Spanish is 60% pathetic.
Good ideas: Glotonería, Murciélago, El Verdugo, Los Lobos, Resurrección, Pantera

Strange ideas: Fornicarás (you'll fuck, literally, in Spanish), Lanza del Relámpago, Santa Teresa, Sonido (sound, in Spanish, if he says that it's because Hollows fly at sound speed it's a bit sad)

Lame: Arrogante (there are tons of synonimous of arrogant in Spanish that could fit better), Tiburón (Escualo would have been great), Ira, Cero Oscuras, Brujería, Sonido Gemelo, La Muerte (an attack so lame doesn´t deserve that name), Lanza Verde

This part is a tad subjective lol. I personally liked arrogante and tiburon(I liked sharks and predicted harribel would be a shark before she released lol). Also, it is not lanza verde but lanzador verde.

Also keep in mind all of this names have greater meaning in Japanese than in spanish. Even if not perfect, I think it is better for it be there than not being there at all. My first language is also spanish BTW.

robert_nsu
December 14, 2009, 01:20 AM
***(somewhat) funny story
I was in an airport a few months ago talking to a missionary who was excited to be back in the US. He wanted to catch up on a lot of things and mentioned some interest in bleach. (After finding a job, gf, cell phone [not necessarily in that order]) I started to hint him on some of the things that went on, and he had some odd expressions at some of the terms i threw out there. The one that I remember most is Hueco Mundo. The place he was stationed at spoke a dialect of spanish where Hueco Mundo meant "gay world". After I explained the story of hollows to him, he said "Ok, the author must mean 'hole world'."

***back on topic
Hall in Your Inferno (??) [Chapter 337]
Don't Believe the Hide [chapter 331]
March of the Death* [Chapter 315]

In Spanish, March of the Death would be roughly translated as Marzo del Muerte. In English, I'm 90% sure it would be read as Death March. I nitpicked at it up until I read Ninja's post. So, like others, I should probably learn the kanji that KT used before considering it a mistake. Still, Hall in Your Inferno throws me for loops. I really couldn't get my head around that one.

Aikidoka
December 15, 2009, 12:47 AM
kkck's statement about your points being subjective, javimgol, are true. Maybe there were proper substitutes for Tiburon or Arrogante, but even if we ignore the Jiggy Factor (the Furigana context), couldn't Kubo have chosen those synonyms out of personal preference as well? Maybe Escualo sounds better to you but Tiburon sounded better to Kubo, hence why he chose it.

kkck
December 15, 2009, 01:08 AM
My first language is spanish and I have to say, escualo sounds outright horrible lol. It is awkward and mostly undignified to the utmost extreme. Sounds like the name of some weird ass big eyed animal you'd find deep in a jungle or between the crack 7 miles deep in the ocean lol. Maybe it would have been more original than tiburon but it wouldn't even nearly make up for the awkwardness. I mean, personally when I think of a shark or TIBURON, this is what comes to mind:

http://teknociencia.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/tiburon-blanco.jpg
http://www.turincondefotos.com/images/tiburon-blanco-2.jpg
http://mundoballenas.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/20080504135851-ataque-tiburon-blanco-a-helicoptero.jpg
http://www.forodefotos.com/attachments/superdepredadores/5374d1223574878-tiburon-blanco-tiburon.jpg
http://www.fondosdeescritorio10.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/gran_tiburon_blanco-1600x1200.jpg

I mean, a shark, tiburon, is a flesh eating machine who will rip you to pieces without a second thought(not that it can think). The undisputed flesh-eating ruler of the sea.

A escualo might be a shark to but when listening to the word this is what comes to mind:
http://paaveragefisherman.com/Weird-Fish-NJ-Sept2001.jpg
http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/weird-deep-sea-fish.jpg **WTF??**
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/02/photogalleries/fish-pictures/images/primary/1_FISH_461.jpg

I also want to note how the names sound in the translations we read might not sound the same in the official translation. Things like cero escuras or lanzador verde might change a tad in the official translations.

Rainier
December 15, 2009, 12:24 PM
They actually don't, lol. Here we get the early seasons of the Bleach anime, and they say all those horrible terms the same way the translations does, the same way Kubo wanted.

>_>

kkck
December 15, 2009, 12:39 PM
Really? I don't really follow the spanish dub where I am from but I thought they simply hadn't got to that point in the anime. I guess it would suck to hear something like cero oscuras lol.

Jiggy-Ninja
December 15, 2009, 01:07 PM
Also keep in mind all of this names have greater meaning in Japanese than in spanish. Even if not perfect, I think it is better for it be there than not being there at all. My first language is also spanish BTW.
Again, no they don't.

The Kanji, which creates the Japanese meaning, and the Furigana, which creates the pronunciation, are totally separate things. Getting the double meaning does not require mangling the Spanish pronunciation.

虚閃 is the Kanji that Kubo chose for the beam attack that all the hollows use. The meaning of these characters is "Hollow (adj.) Flash". A Japanese person reading these characters would probably pronounce it "kosen" or "kyosen".

Kubo decides he wants to give his Hollow related stuff Spanish names, so he can use Furigana to change the pronunciation of the Kanji, while leaving the Kanji itself and the meaning intact. He chose to give it the Furigana セロ, which is pronounced "sero". The Furigana has no relation at all to the Kanji, the Kanji is there to either just look cool or give some meaningful context to the foreign word that readers might not understand.

Another clue that this word isn't Japanese is that the Furigana is written in Katakana. Most normal Japanese words are written using Hiragana. Katakana has only two common uses: emphasis (like italics or [b]bold/b]) and foreign loan words. Since the Katakana is used every time they talk about Cero, it's clearly not for emphasis. That means it's a foreign word, and thus meaningless in Japanese. The word "sero" is meaningless to your average Japanese person, unless they happen to know Spanish or are a Bleach fan.

Kubo chose to use セロ as the pronunciation for this attack, but he could have just as easily called it ラ ・ クカラチャ (Ra Kukaracha, La Cucaracha (sp?)) if he wanted, and he wouldn't have had to change the Kanji at all. The pronunciation and the meaning are totally independent of each other.

This is a very common technique that is used by many, if not most, manga writers in Japan, not just Kubo.

The upside to using this technique is the cool double meaning you can get. The downside is that, if the manga is made into an anime, you loose the Kanji that might have gave meaningful context to the word, and are just left with the pronunciation, which may or may not make any sense.

On a different tangent, what kind of idiot Mexican wrote a song about cockroaches? And made it so damn catchy too? GET! OUT! OF! MY! HEAD!! :darn Must....drown out......that damn song!

kkck
December 15, 2009, 04:30 PM
Again, no they don't.

The Kanji, which creates the Japanese meaning, and the Furigana, which creates the pronunciation, are totally separate things. Getting the double meaning does not require mangling the Spanish pronunciation.

虚閃 is the Kanji that Kubo chose for the beam attack that all the hollows use. The meaning of these characters is "Hollow (adj.) Flash". A Japanese person reading these characters would probably pronounce it "kosen" or "kyosen".

Kubo decides he wants to give his Hollow related stuff Spanish names, so he can use Furigana to change the pronunciation of the Kanji, while leaving the Kanji itself and the meaning intact. He chose to give it the Furigana セロ, which is pronounced "sero". The Furigana has no relation at all to the Kanji, the Kanji is there to either just look cool or give some meaningful context to the foreign word that readers might not understand.

Another clue that this word isn't Japanese is that the Furigana is written in Katakana. Most normal Japanese words are written using Hiragana. Katakana has only two common uses: emphasis (like italics or [b]bold/b]) and foreign loan words. Since the Katakana is used every time they talk about Cero, it's clearly not for emphasis. That means it's a foreign word, and thus meaningless in Japanese. The word "sero" is meaningless to your average Japanese person, unless they happen to know Spanish or are a Bleach fan.

Kubo chose to use セロ as the pronunciation for this attack, but he could have just as easily called it ラ ・ クカラチャ (Ra Kukaracha, La Cucaracha (sp?)) if he wanted, and he wouldn't have had to change the Kanji at all. The pronunciation and the meaning are totally independent of each other.

This is a very common technique that is used by many, if not most, manga writers in Japan, not just Kubo.

The upside to using this technique is the cool double meaning you can get. The downside is that, if the manga is made into an anime, you loose the Kanji that might have gave meaningful context to the word, and are just left with the pronunciation, which may or may not make any sense.

On a different tangent, what kind of idiot Mexican wrote a song about cockroaches? And made it so damn catchy too? GET! OUT! OF! MY! HEAD!! :darn Must....drown out......that damn song!

So it is actually possible in every case to use furigana in order to make what kubo writes sounds exactly like spanish? In that case kubo should probably chose to do it perfectly, then again he might chose a certain way because for him it sounds better.

Jiggy-Ninja
December 15, 2009, 10:43 PM
So it is actually possible in every case to use furigana in order to make what kubo writes sounds exactly like spanish? In that case kubo should probably chose to do it perfectly, then again he might chose a certain way because for him it sounds better.
Now you're getting it. :)

Either Kubo chose the mistakes because he thought they sounded cooler, or because he is ignorant of proper grammar.

Darjaille
November 08, 2011, 05:24 AM
Dead thread is dead, but some titles shouldn't be forgotten XD
And the winner of recent chapters is...

462. Why me sad

I don't know about others, but this totally killed me. My english is far from perfect, but this sounds really ridiculous.. and funny :XD:XD
..but maybe Kubo wanted to show us he can use slang ^^'

I don't find mistakes in titles and names offensive in any way, IMO it's kinda adorable...XD

cracker
November 08, 2011, 10:46 AM
That was one of silly ones, so was Four Arms to Killing You but there are times they sound cool

Mute Your Breathe Friendship was okay for something that sounded so strange lol

One of my favourites was Bleach My Soul

AmyRiddle
November 10, 2011, 04:17 PM
Hey, at least he uses better english then most of my classmates XD
No seriously, i always laugh at Kubos titles.
Personal fav is and always will be "Why me sad?"
I think he IS doing it on purpose, he cant be that bad.