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View Full Version : Theory Strongest character in One Piece as of yet = Garp?



NoLimit89
December 10, 2009, 03:45 PM
Whitebeard is definitely not strongest, I don't think he is capable of using Haki at his current weakened state. (More on this next week as I can't go into much detail because it'll be against the ToS)

but Garp, he's THE LEGENDARY marine. I think that makes him even stronger than Sengoku if Sengoku indeed is stronger than the admirals.

ZenoArmani
December 10, 2009, 03:55 PM
The strongest? Gol D. Roger was supposed to be a bit stronger than Garp, so uninjured Whitebeard should be as well.

My best guess would be Dragon though. He's the world's most wanted man after all, and likely the final boss, then Whitebeard (who has been stated as equal to Roger when in his prime), and Shanks (who was apparently shown as equal to current Whitebeard), then Sengoku and Garp (who used to fight Roger, but apparently always lost, since the pirate king always got away), along with The Golden Lion before he lost his legs, and maybe the other two Yonkou. Technically Kizaru and Enel _should_ be the strongest, since they can transform into energy, but they aren't.

Edit: Here is the (somewhat adjusted) rough guesswork rating list I made in response to the "Guess character POWERLEVELS" thread: http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1655350#post1655350:

Just remember that this isn't a clear cut ranking. There are lots of different types of powers and interactions, and just because someone has more raw power than a logia user, or Marco the Phoenix, who works similarly, doesn't mean that they can hurt them, and that some members of each category might be considerably stronger than others:

1a) Most dangerous fighter/"strongest" in the world level:
Gol D. Roger; Whitebeard in his prime; possibly Monkey D. Dragon;
1b) Whitebeard current (without damage); Red Hair Shanks; Dark King Rayleigh when in his prime; Garp in his prime; Shinshiki the Golden Lion in his prime before losing his legs;
2) Highest Elite Level:
Garp current; Fleet Admiral Sengoku; Fisher Tiger; The remaining 2 Yonkou; Magellan; Admiral Kizaru; Marco; Enel; Admiral Akainu; Dark King Rayleigh current;
3a) Almost, but not quite:
Blackbeard; Admiral Aokiji; Ace; Original Kuma; Joz; Jinbei; Mihawk; Vista; Shiryuu; Boa Hancock;
3b) Either on par with or a bit below that:
Sentoumaru; Ivankov; Doflamingo; Moria after absorbing thousand shadows;
4) Extreme Elite level: Smoker; Sir Crocodile; Luffy at gear 2; Eustass Kid; Pacifistas; Rob Lucci; Regular Moria's potential; Mid-level Whitebeard commanders; Oars and Oars Jr; Chopper's monster form; The strongest vice-admirals;

modoki
December 10, 2009, 05:15 PM
if you look back at chapter 0, Garp was rejecting promotions. He should be a fleet admiral or Admiral by now either one.
Its hard to tell who is the strongest atm. BUt if squad didnt do what he did to pops, then maybe we would see what WB can really do.

I hate to say this, but ill put my money on Blackbeard f atm, as much as i dislike that guy

Poneglyph420
December 10, 2009, 05:55 PM
At this point it does seem Garp is the strongest member of the Marines. I agree he'd be an Admiral or more if he wasn't from the Monkey family...
Still I think if we assume then I'd say Dragon must be as powerful as Garp and maybe even more.

BB would indeed be the most powerful Df user and Pirate at this point, but I think Garp would own him, especially if he's not DF reliant.

If it's strongest of all time, Roger for sure!!

NoLimit89
December 10, 2009, 06:37 PM
Let me rephrase, strongest character who is ALIVE.

because Roger is a given.

Razh
December 10, 2009, 07:18 PM
I wouldn't jump the guns already. We've seen nothing about Sengoku yet.

But don't give too many details guys, don't forget the weekend rule.
[hr]


I hate to say this, but ill put my money on Blackbeard f atm, as much as i dislike that guy

Are you serious? After all we've seen in this battle, I think he can barely be nominated for top 10.

NoLimit89
December 10, 2009, 08:42 PM
BB is below admiral level imo.

BlackHair
December 11, 2009, 07:42 AM
Im with Whitebeard. Sengoku himself stated him several times as powerful. So I kinda doubt that WB is weaker than him. Of course without his current wound. But he has also health problems, which Marco stated. So Im not rly sure.

Anyway, I think I will put Garp, Sengoku and WB on the same lvl, until we see the other two in action.

Lastly, plz don't bring BB in this. He proofed in ID that he is still too weak to challenge the upper force of the world.

bittman
December 11, 2009, 07:58 AM
Hmm, what would my top ten look like? I mean, I only rate from what we've seen, so I don't count Kaidou + other Yonkou and others of reputation alone (Dragon, Shanks, et al).

1. Sengoku / Garp
2. Garp / Sengoku
3. Mihawk
4. Akainu
5. Marco
6. Aokoji
7. Doflamingo
8. Jozu
9. Kizaru
10. Magellan

This is solely based on what we've seen. Whitebeard is honestly not in my top ten, he's still got quite the fruit behind him, but it's obvious his battle power has lessened tremendously. I rate Marco and Jozu above him in terms of strength. Blackbeard is also out of it because Magellan just squeezes into my top 10 for his broken power, and even Blackbeard, the man able to cancel even the most broken of powers, was too slow to counter him. I threw Sengoku with a comparable level to Garp based mainly on Garp's words to him saying that if he thought he could "do something" he already would have. Garp may have been stronger than Sengoku, but I'd say Garp is also well past his prime whereas Sengoku probably has a good decade or more under him.

And finally, ignored Shanks (because some haki and a sword block tells me nothing) and Dragon (because making some wind and rain tells me nothing either). That said, I'm sure when we do see their power it's right up there.

urlaub
December 11, 2009, 12:54 PM
My top 5 present categories of strength

1) WB
2)Garp, Sengoku, Shiki, Shanks
3)admirals and Marco, Jozu, Mihawk, Enel
4)Magellan, DoFlamingo(?), Kuma, Jimbey
5)VA and couple of Supernovas(Luff?), Rob Lucci, Croc

I think I forgot a lo of people here. So WB is the strongest. Garp and Sengoku are slightly behind but equal to each other and Shiki plus Shanks. Then come the admirals and Marco, Jozu, Enel, Mihawk. Then Magellan, Flamingo, Kuma and Jimbey and finally the quite not there jet group. I think that the first one to break out of the not quite yet there group is Luffy. Hard to put Flamingo, Ace and BB anywhere. Ace would be 4-5. BB maybe 4-5? Flamingo 3 or 4(All this depending on the circumstances). And hard to see that Luffy will be moving up after beating Shiki to Garp level. Pretty much think he will move up to Kuma, Magellan and Jimbey level. After that he will have another development and move to admirals level. So basically two power-ups before defeating an admiral. One comes after the war. The other in the new world probably. Maybe after facing with Kaidou?

NoLimit89
December 11, 2009, 04:28 PM
I know this is gonna be unpopular opinion but I think so far, Whitebeard has shown himself to be WEAKER than Marco and Jozu (except for his hax devil fruit power).

Now let me rephrase, in terms of pure strength, I think WB is still tops, but if you want to count in speed/stamina/haki, I think WB is further down on the list. I don't want to bring up that thing with Aokiji but damn WB :mad

kkck
December 11, 2009, 06:07 PM
It is hard to say IMHO. Garp definitely is among the top ten but how exactly he compares to WB is hard to say. On top of that there is no way to actually compare him to the current WB since WB was stabbed. I doubt such a wound is having no effect on the old man(not that his mouth is bleeding ever since he got stabbed). Garp is a beast but exactly how strong he is will probably never be determined. Considering he is old, I would not be surprised if a few of WB, shanks, mihawk, marco or jozu are actually stronger than him though. Sengoku seems kinda younger than garp so he could be stronger.

Franckie
December 12, 2009, 12:38 AM
Garp was a top-tier fighter 22+ years ago. He currently is no longer on the top of the food chain, and admitted it when he pursued Luffy at Water 7. As for the "strongest" character, it'd be Gold Roger, the Pirate King. The only person who fought him to a draw is Whitebeard.

On a side note, Sengoku nor Garp are stronger than the 3 Admirals. The 3 Admirals have been stated to be the strongest in the marines.

Gats
December 12, 2009, 05:29 AM
Garp was a top-tier fighter 22+ years ago. He currently is no longer on the top of the food chain, and admitted it when he pursued Luffy at Water 7. As for the "strongest" character, it'd be Gold Roger, the Pirate King. The only person who fought him to a draw is Whitebeard.

On a side note, Sengoku nor Garp are stronger than the 3 Admirals. The 3 Admirals have been stated to be the strongest in the marines.

Garp said that he is less powerful, it doesn't mean that he is not at the top of chain food (nor conversely), he would never say if he would be anyway. Gold D. Roger is dead, besides he told Garp that they fought each other nearly to the death many times.

The 3 admirals have been stated to be the strongest power but do not forget that Garp rejected the seat of Admiral, his current rank means nothing. And it would be weird to say that only the leader (Sengoku) would be the strongest power if you talk about the Marine.

k-dom
December 12, 2009, 06:02 AM
This is solely based on what we've seen.

Then is it not a bit unfair to put DoFlamingo on the list ? We haven't see much about him either.


Nobody puts Rayleigh in the list ?

Franckie
December 12, 2009, 11:17 AM
Garp said that he is less powerful, it doesn't mean that he is not at the top of chain food (nor conversely), he would never say if he would be anyway. Gold D. Roger is dead, besides he told Garp that they fought each other nearly to the death many times.

Garp is certainly far more powerful than the typical Marine, but his strength is a shadow of his former self, similar to the situations with Whitebeard and Rayleigh. Roger's comment was when he was trying to get on Garp's good side. It also means that Garp was never once able to defeat Roger, and couldn't even get a draw like Whitebeard. Garp is not Roger's equal.


The 3 admirals have been stated to be the strongest power but do not forget that Garp rejected the seat of Admiral, his current rank means nothing. And it would be weird to say that only the leader (Sengoku) would be the strongest power if you talk about the Marine.

We have no idea the relation of strength between Garp and Sengoku at their prime with the current Admirals. We only know for a fact that the current Garp and Sengoku are weaker than the current 3 Admirals.

YamFrie
December 12, 2009, 11:17 AM
Oda made Whitebeard pierced by Squad's sword on purpose, in order to make him less powerful or it would be just unfair, this is god dam obvious to me. WB is definatly the strongest, but right now it seems to me that according to Oda's plans he should lose or at least not win by himself...


We only know for a fact that the current Garp and Sengoku are weaker than the current 3 Admirals.

Who told you that? There's no way Garp and Sengoku are weaker than those 3 admirals.

Razh
December 12, 2009, 11:22 AM
We have no idea the relation of strength between Garp and Sengoku at their prime with the current Admirals. We only know for a fact that the current Garp and Sengoku are weaker than the current 3 Admirals.

Are you talking individually or all together? Because we don't know it for a fact. Please correct me if I'm wrong. With links.

urlaub
December 12, 2009, 11:31 AM
Well, I think he means this legendary page http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/319/04/ . You know this seems to not prove anything to me. It goes by rank and opinion, but the fact is that Garp rejected being admiral over 20 years ago. He has aged, but still kicked Marco and Marco has kicked Kizaru and Aokij. Altough these facts seem to mean nothing. This page also doesn't mean nothing.

Razh
December 12, 2009, 11:36 AM
All I see is a line "those three men are crowned the title - marines ultimate assault force, by the world government and he is one of them".
It could mean a lot of things. It could be because of their destructive capabilities. Maybe all 3 of them together are ultimate assault force. Point is, we don't know that they are stronger then Sengoku or Garp for a fact, and if there's one thing I learned in One Piece, it's - never underestimate an old dog.:p

urlaub
December 12, 2009, 11:46 AM
I mean, look at my power levels on the last page. It says there that Garp and Sengoku are stronger than 3 admirals, MIhawk, Shanks, Marco and Jozu. You just might wanna take it as the Truth and dogma. :) Just kidding. Well if we can't say that the admirals are stronger than Garp and Sengoku, we can't actually say that they are weaker. We don't know it for fact. They haven't fought each other. Still we know that Garp is the first beast and Jozu the second one:)

Franckie
December 13, 2009, 12:09 AM
Who told you that? There's no way Garp and Sengoku are weaker than those 3 admirals.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/303/19/

Aokiji has been stated to be the "strongest". Kizaru too. Not sure about Aikanu, but there's no reason he should be excluded.


Are you talking individually or all together? Because we don't know it for a fact. Please correct me if I'm wrong. With links.
Are you referring to Sengoku and Garp at their prime or their current status?


All I see is a line "those three men are crowned the title - marines ultimate assault force, by the world government and he is one of them".
It could mean a lot of things. It could be because of their destructive capabilities. Maybe all 3 of them together are ultimate assault force. Point is, we don't know that they are stronger then Sengoku or Garp for a fact, and if there's one thing I learned in One Piece, it's - never underestimate an old dog.:p

The Admirals have been stated to be the strongest persons in the marines. In other words, current Garp and current Sengoku are considered weaker than them.

bittman
December 13, 2009, 02:58 AM
On Admirals: I'm with Razh on this. The translation you're using Franckie was a literal translation and "title" for the admirals. Whitebeard was titled with "Strongest man in the World", but we're seeing that title being broken down piece by piece. Follow this up with Garp having declined an Admiral position, and Sengoku being one earlier, and they were also once, or equivallently ranked, as the "Strongest Force in the marines".

Sengoku and Garp may be 22 years "past" their prime, but their experience outranks almost all other high ranking marines and they are most likely nowhere near as far from their prime as Whitebeard or Rayleigh, both of whom have been shown to be struggling with the years gone by.

On Doflamingo: Someone said they don't believe we've seen enough of Doflamingo to rank him. Strangely I've seen him slice through the neck of Crocodile and the giant leg of Oars-chan in an instant + Stop the charge of Joz against Crocodile + control ranking marines and 13th Div Captain Atmos to attack their own allies.

I think he's proven plenty without specifically stating "I'm a xxx xxx man. I can manipulate xxx!"

On Rayleigh: Mentioned it earlier, but expanding on that: Kizaru was toying with him. Actually Kizaru has not taken any opponent seriously, so it might be just that Kizaru is a hard person to compare strength too. But that said, Rayleigh was visibly appearing to struggle with the effort of holding back Kizaru plus he has visibly been out of action for quite possibly decades.

On WB: Agree with NoLimit earlier. Marco and Joz are most likely above the power of WB. As I said earlier, WB has one of the most powerful DF's we've seen, but you can tell Oda is putting some emphasis on showing how much effort WB is putting into throwing every single little earthquake out. Look at how disappointed and worn out he was after quaking alongside his bisento whilst failing to even knock over Vice Admirals and you can see a man that knows he is walking to his loss but is too stubborn to admit it whilst hoping he can at least spare Ace's execution.

JJMV
December 13, 2009, 03:27 PM
I think BB is in top 10, remember he has already defeated 2 WB's division commanders, and he impressed Shiryuu (who is equal to Magellan).

modoki
December 14, 2009, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't jump the guns already. We've seen nothing about Sengoku yet.

But don't give too many details guys, don't forget the weekend rule.
<hr noshade size="1">


Are you serious? After all we've seen in this battle, I think he can barely be nominated for top 10.


I saw that because of the amount of pain he can absorb which kinda impresses me

Razh
December 14, 2009, 02:02 PM
I saw that because of the amount of pain he can absorb which kinda impresses me

From what I've seen so far, both Luffy and Zoro are more impressive when it comes to absorbing or neglecting pain.
We've yet to see Blackbeard going through what Luffy went through several times. Mind you, I don't think he can't take it, but we won't know until we see it.

afroze100
December 15, 2009, 01:01 PM
it is clear from this binktopia translation that garp and sengoku are indeed the strongest marines right now:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-566/page014.html

and binktopia translations are the best out there, so...

firework
December 18, 2009, 11:01 PM
ill take the "Strongest character in One Piece as of yet" to mean the current strongest.

now then, because WB, Garp, Sengoku are all old; i frankly think that the 3 admirals in their prime and Marco are the current strongest that we've seen in action. near them, but not quite there, are
Doflamingo (imo strongest shichi, look at someone's post about him earlier)
Iva (at a stretch)
Magellan (he is imho the deadliest man in the world, just need to see his effect on logias to verify)
Jozu (at a stretch)
Raleigh

reputation-wise, I'd vote for Dragon (i consider him to be at the level of a prime-Garp)

again let me reiterate; Sengoku, Garp, and WB are past their prime. They no longer hold the title of top tier.
Currently, itd be 3 Admirals+ Marco
Rep-wise itd be Dragon

NoLimit89
December 19, 2009, 02:35 AM
ill take the "Strongest character in One Piece as of yet" to mean the current strongest.

now then, because WB, Garp, Sengoku are all old; i frankly think that the 3 admirals in their prime and Marco are the current strongest that we've seen in action. near them, but not quite there, are
Doflamingo (imo strongest shichi, look at someone's post about him earlier)
Iva (at a stretch)
Magellan (he is imho the deadliest man in the world, just need to see his effect on logias to verify)
Jozu (at a stretch)

reputation-wise, I'd vote for Dragon (i consider him to be at the level of a prime-Garp)

again let me reiterate; Sengoku, Garp, and WB are past their prime. They no longer hold the title of top tier.
Currently, itd be 3 Admirals+ Marco
Rep-wise itd be Dragon

We don't really know if the guys at their prime now is equal or greater in strength than those oldies. With that said, I completely agree with you and think that the younger shiki and captains and admirals very well may be the current strongest.

The old strongest was definitely Roger, Garp, Sengoku, Whitebeard and Shiki. I remember when WB and Shanks met and clashed, WB commented that "Roger, Garp, Sengoku" was the only thing that he remembers from that turbulent time. I also heard that Oda originally planned to have Shiki be mentioned there but decided against it at the last minute because he thought that namedropping a new character in such a way would confuse the readers.

afroze100
December 20, 2009, 06:30 PM
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...6/page014.html
This is ENOUGH to prove that even now garp and sengoku are stronger than the admirals!

Rayleigh was able to fight equally with kizaru without using any weapons!! and garp and sengoku were most certainly stronger than him in their prime. Moreover none of the admirals have been shown to possess a high level of king's haki (atleast equivalent to that of rayleigh)
and not to forget garp was able to punch marco right back to square one, the poor guy wasn't even able to show any resistance. truly said: "there's no defense against the fist of love"!
Aokiji wasn't able to freeze whitebeard for some reason, and was fighting equally with jozu. He was actually hurt when jozu punched him, i can't imagine people like garp and rayleigh being really hurt (such that they'd have to make a dirty face lol) with one of jozu's fist.
[hr]
sorry the above link is broken, here's one that works:
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-566/page014.html

For those who don't want to open it up. When all the pirates are thrown into the plaza by oars (Oz) and things look a little bad for marines, sengoku says: "It looks like EVEN WE (him and garp) aren't going to sit back this time!"

It would be pretty ironical for him to say this if he knew he was weaker than his 3 subordinates, and thus his involvement wouldn't make any big difference.

firework
December 20, 2009, 09:53 PM
i dont think that statement means that much. Sengoku also said that WB was the strongest man in the world, but he's getting owned by Akainu.
It doesnt mean that much

ZenoArmani
December 21, 2009, 01:19 PM
Whitebeard has a frigging hole in his chest (and was also very distracted when Akainu struck if I remember right). He shouldn't be able to even move with that kind of damage.

Gats
January 04, 2010, 06:32 PM
I found something about Aokiji :
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-303/page019.html

I've never remembered this Oo
So he is officially the strongest man in the MHQ for now, exit Garp and Sengoku ?

RichardMNixon
January 04, 2010, 10:54 PM
so I don't count reputation alone

1. Sengoku / Garp
2. Garp / Sengoku
3. Mihawk


We've never seen Sengoku do anything (reputation alone), Garp we have mostly reputation with a punch and some cannonballs, and Mihawk has accomplished less than Luffy in this war.

__________________________________________________________

Aokiji was not labeled the strongest marine... that was a misinterpretation from ages ago. The admirals were said to be the marines ultimate fighting force, not Aokiji specifically among them.

__________________________________________________________

My top guys

1-9 (no particular order)
Dragon
Garp
Magellan
Whitebeard
Sengoku
Kizaru
Marco
Shanks
Mihawk

10-16 (no particular order)
Joz
Akainu
Doflamingo
Jinbei
Blackbeard
Rayleigh
Aokiji

Gats
January 05, 2010, 06:32 AM
Aokiji was not labeled the strongest marine... that was a misinterpretation from ages ago. The admirals were said to be the marines ultimate fighting force, not Aokiji specifically among them.


This was said later, besides, the fact that Aokiji might be the strongest and the fact that admirals are the ultimate marine fighting force are not contradictory.

But if it is really a mistranslation, what did those guys said about him ? One of the strongest ?

RichardMNixon
January 05, 2010, 08:05 AM
This was said later, besides, the fact that Aokiji might be the strongest and the fact that admirals are the ultimate marine fighting force are not contradictory.

But if it is really a mistranslation, what did those guys said about him ? One of the strongest ?

They were referring to the admirals as a whole. It's not a matter of contradiction, it's just getting something out of it that wasn't actually intended.

Straw.Hat Luffy
January 05, 2010, 09:34 AM
Well... WhiteBeard is said to be the strongest man alive so before this war the top would look like this:
WB
Dragon * who will be first after this war*
Sengoku/Garp/Shanks
I don't think Shanks intends to be the strongest or even the Pirate King...he's role is just to be Luffy's idol.

Schabrak
March 02, 2010, 06:10 AM
Would you stop posting the same quotes to different threads, to keep the discussion to one thread.

You could see it like this. Even if Kizaru is stronger, his light should just be refract and be weakened so, not hurting much, gaining him big advantage against a light user. Still have to see them fight even once to to able to discuss in any further.

Can't tell much about Marco though. His powers are even now more misterious than explained. Yeah he got shot in human form... wow. But later on it did not seem to bother him much. So being able to regain health through a kind of ressurection when going into his zoan form makes his powers extremely powerful. Adding to that his offesive it pretty good to, to be able to go into a tie with Kizaru. + enhancing his attacks with haki to strengthen up his claw attacks. Doesn't mean he is stronger than anybody, but a pretty nice o/a hybrid.

I myself could not make a top ten list, because those are fail in One Piece cough.

braindamage351
March 02, 2010, 07:23 PM
Garp can probably punch out the admirals, but Whitebeard is clearly the strongest in the world. I don't know how people are even questioning this, he ko'd a logia admiral in two hits.

BlackHair
March 02, 2010, 08:51 PM
I agree with braindamage. Recent chapter proofed his status at the top. Even though he has health problems and a freaking hole in his chest, he still took out Akainu in two shots. Ture his anger (Aces) was the boost factor, yet he still living up to his name.

Akainu = Admiral = Hight tier = Not a cannon fodder.

THM Nindo
March 02, 2010, 10:57 PM
Hmmm....
In my opinion :

Strongest of the Marines = Sengoku
Strongest of the Shishibukai = Mihawk
Strongest of the Yonkou = Shanks (after WB, of course)
Strongest of the pirates = Blackbeard

Those 4 are probably the strongest amongst the strongest...
If I had to pick... I would say it's between Shanks and Blackbeard (make more sense in a storytelling way)

Garp is probably really strong, maybe even as powerful as Sengoku though...
We know that he's most probably above admiral level, since he's just Vice-Admiral because he refuses the promotion...

Garp is likely to be one of the strongest for sure... but he hasn't show much yet...

BlackHair
March 03, 2010, 11:48 AM
I would say it's between Shanks and Blackbeard (make more sense in a storytelling way)How so? Wouldn't it make more sense to put Mihawk and BB as the top by using ur "storytelling" argument?

BB will be Luffy's toughest oppent. While I believe Mihawk will be Zoro toughest opponent. However Shanks will most likely not fight Luffy, he will be just a support character.

THM Nindo
March 03, 2010, 12:52 PM
How so? Wouldn't it make more sense to put Mihawk and BB as the top by using ur "storytelling" argument?

BB will be Luffy's toughest oppent. While I believe Mihawk will be Zoro toughest opponent. However Shanks will most likely not fight Luffy, he will be just a support character.

I don't know...
Usually, the last boss and the student's master are pretty much the strongest of the whole manga...

That's why I say that Shanks and Blackbeard will most likely be the strongest one (after WB).

And let's not forget Dragon, too!
As the protagonist father, the leader of the rebellion and the most wanted man of the whole world... he most be strong too!!

-------

One more thing...
So far Whitebeard has been said to be strongest, and he has shown it.
He fought solo against 10000 guys, and no one stands a chance against him, not even the admirals, or the Shichibukai...

Not even Blackbeard!!
That was a pretty clear message from Oda, that Whitebeard was on another level.

But, then... we got this : http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/
The sky split in two equal part when WB and Shanks clashed...

This is Oda's way of telling us that WB and Shanks are equal in power...
Isn't that right?

So, to me, it's pretty clear that, after WB's death, the most powerful man will be Shanks.

Immo
March 03, 2010, 02:34 PM
My top 10:
10) BB
9)other yankou/Kaidou
8)Kaidou/other yankou
7)Kizaru
6)Aokiji
5)Akainu
4)Shanks
3)Garp/Sengoku
2)Sengoku/Garp
1)Stronger (bad horse in BB crew)

yeah i think BB is Stronger's puppet, and his always closed eyes have sharingan for sure

urlaub
March 03, 2010, 02:44 PM
Well WB was the strongest of the pirates, we all know that. Before him there was Roger. Now I suspect Shanks and Kaido.

From the marines I guess Sengoku and Garp are there in the first place. And just under that are Akainu and the two others.

From Supernovas I totally think Luffy.

From the shichibukai it has to be Mihawk before DoFlamingo and Kuma.

The strongest WB pirate is Marco who has beens shown to be on admiral level.

These I take to be 'uncontroversial' truths.

But now in the overall category, I say on the current stage it has to be a fight betweem Shanks, Mihawk, Sengoku and Garp I say.

PS! Rayleigh is a wild card.

Primecut
March 03, 2010, 07:11 PM
Lots of folks wrote Whitebeard off too early. I knew this was going to happen and I hate to say I told you so but when a title appears below his first appearance saying "The Strongest Man in the World" you better believe it.

NoLimit89
March 20, 2010, 12:23 AM
Not hacking it.

Whitebeard didn't have much effect on Akainu. :mad

Akainu should have came back with shattered ribs and arms imo. And I mean entirely shattered because of the quake so that Vegapunk can rebuild him as partial cyborg. THEN he can be even more of a threat to Luffy.

Otherwise, it totally made Whitebeard look useless.

And then Garp made that speech about how he was gonna "kill Akainu", which made Garp look so much more stronger.

Fox666
March 20, 2010, 01:41 AM
1 - Whitebeard, Roger, Garp and Sengoku
2 - Admirals and Blackbeard
3 - Shichibukai, Rayleigh, Marco and Ace
4 - Jozu, Vista, Smoker, Sentoumaru
5 - Rob Lucci, Vice Admirals, Eustass Kid, and Pacifistas

The rest of WB commanders and the Supernova fit beetween Marine Captains to Marine Rear Admirals power.

ScratchmenApoo
March 20, 2010, 06:25 AM
From people who are still alive, I guess the strongest are the three Yonkous & Sengoku followed by Garp & Rayleigh.

msg
March 20, 2010, 09:44 AM
The strongest is Usoppun jk

My take on who's the strongest
In order - The gorousei, Sengoku/Garp/Rayleigh, The Yonkous, The 3 Admirals, The shichibukai and Vice Admirals, NW captains, The supernovas.

RichardMNixon
March 20, 2010, 02:39 PM
Not hacking it.

Whitebeard didn't have much effect on Akainu. :mad

Akainu should have came back with shattered ribs and arms imo. And I mean entirely shattered because of the quake so that Vegapunk can rebuild him as partial cyborg. THEN he can be even more of a threat to Luffy.

Otherwise, it totally made Whitebeard look useless.

And then Garp made that speech about how he was gonna "kill Akainu", which made Garp look so much more stronger.

Akainu looks to me like he has some kind of crick in his neck, I don't think he's at full capacity anymore. As other people have said though, he's the red dog. Relentlessness is part of his character. If Whitebeard had broken every bone in his body, he'd continue slithering along the ground after Luffy, thats who he is.

Are you suggesting Whitebeard couldn't have killed Akainu? He certainly could have, he just didn't. Whether he expected him to fall to his death or just decided he had bigger fish to fry, I don't know. Whatever it was it certainly didn't look like he respected Akainu as a worthy opponent.

I'm sure Blackbeard thinks he's the strongest, but I'm not sure that's the case. We still haven't seen much of Garp's power, might be nice to see him put Blackbeard back in his place.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

If the Gorosei were any stronger than your average Grand Line pirate, I'd have to wonder why they didn't help in capturing Roger or defending Marineford. The only way I could see them being super strong is if they're busy fighting off Dragon.

Poneglyph420
March 20, 2010, 06:44 PM
I'm sure Blackbeard thinks he's the strongest, but I'm not sure that's the case. We still haven't seen much of Garp's power, might be nice to see him put Blackbeard back in his place.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

If the Gorosei were any stronger than your average Grand Line pirate, I'd have to wonder why they didn't help in capturing Roger or defending Marineford. The only way I could see them being super strong is if they're busy fighting off Dragon.

Couldn't agree more about BB thinking he's the stongest but in actuality possibly falling short...

I'd suspect Garp would be able to handle BB or his crew members at least... Even knowing little about him I'd hype Dragon as being up there..

As far a the gorousei, like Shakky says (Knowledge is a weapon)
Their time for action was in the formation of their "alliance"...

OunknownO
March 20, 2010, 07:02 PM
wb.... it took 3 admirals, half of navy just to kill him and he died standing.... I mean
he took 267 blade wounds, 152 bullets,46 canonballs before he died and even that didn't take him down

White Silver King
March 20, 2010, 10:39 PM
Kuma pre-head modification, he could just push Garp away. I can see him doing the same to WB, WB isn't fast enough to react to Kuma's instantaneous movements and all Kuma has to do is touch WB.

vagabond87
March 21, 2010, 01:58 AM
Kuma pre-head modification, he could just push Garp away. I can see him doing the same to WB, WB isn't fast enough to react to Kuma's instantaneous movements and all Kuma has to do is touch WB.


Kizuaru couldn't kill him so Whitebeard was fast enough to handle Kuma and we must remember that pushing away may not affect him because of his haki. Black hole in chapter 576 probably didnt stop WB from using Gura Gura no Mi powers on BB face(or Yami Yami no Mi was "turned off" when BB got stabbed by bisento).

White Silver King
March 21, 2010, 02:36 PM
Kizuaru couldn't kill him so Whitebeard was fast enough to handle Kuma and we must remember that pushing away may not affect him because of his haki. Black hole in chapter 576 probably didnt stop WB from using Gura Gura no Mi powers on BB face(or Yami Yami no Mi was "turned off" when BB got stabbed by bisento).

How would Haki prevent someone from getting pushed? Haki doesn't stop people from getting hit by one of Luffy's rubber punches so I don't see how Haki would do anything. And I don't recall the part where Kizaru faces WB do you have a page or chapter number? And WB didn't use Gura Gura when he slashed BB he just cut him and when WB did use Gura Gura on BB's face BB had let go of him because he had gotten hit, just touching somebody doesn't take away their powers he has to actually use the proper attack and concentration to take them away and having the world's strongest man on top of you kicking your ass would probably take away your concentration.

And I LOVE your avatar lol.

kkck
March 21, 2010, 03:32 PM
How would Haki prevent someone from getting pushed? Haki doesn't stop people from getting hit by one of Luffy's rubber punches so I don't see how Haki would do anything. And I don't recall the part where Kizaru faces WB do you have a page or chapter number? And WB didn't use Gura Gura when he slashed BB he just cut him and when WB did use Gura Gura on BB's face BB had let go of him because he had gotten hit, just touching somebody doesn't take away their powers he has to actually use the proper attack and concentration to take them away and having the world's strongest man on top of you kicking your ass would probably take away your concentration.

And I LOVE your avatar lol.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/08/
haki can indeed protect people from punches. Luffy's normal punches were pretty much bounced back by haki, it was only when he went all out the punches became effective.

superman97
March 21, 2010, 03:57 PM
With Whitebeard dead...

1-Dragon:
-worlds most wanted man
-leads Iva who is arguably stronger then all the shichibukai
-Has Kings Haki
-Prediction time: He has mythical zoan Dragon fruit, and each mythical zoan has a unique power such has Marco recovering from injuries, and I think dragons is to control weather since a storm did come when he saved Luffy in Logue town.
-Son of Garp who is currently in his prime

2-Garp- Equal to Roger and Whitebeard, and can probably be fleet admiral right now. He claimed to be able to kill an admiral (akainu)

3-Sengoku- Fleet admiral that stands above 3 very powerful admirals and is currently holding off Blackbeards crew.

4-Shanks- Concidering Whitebeard was arguably the strongest of the Yonkou and Shanks was shown to be relatively equal with perfect control over Kings Haki I think he deserves this spot. Shanks is higher then rayleigh because we don't know if he has obtained a devil fruit, and because he is in his prime.

5-Rayleigh- Considered a legend, has perfect control of Kings Haki, and if he had the desire to he probably could have defeated Kizaru, but didn't since Kuma had a plan.

6-Blackbeard- Possesses 2 of the strongest devil fruits in the manga. The reason he ranks above the admirals is because they are all logias and he clearly has the advantage against a logia. With just his logia I would rate Aokiji above him but since he cant be frozen with the quake fruit he must be stronger.

7,8- Two unknown Yonkou- Lets face it, the Yonkou have got to individually be stronger then an admiral otherwise men has powerful as them would probably have been captured by now.

9,10,11, 12-Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, Marco- none of them have done anything to differentiate their power level from one another. I think with these 3 it depends on the opponent. As for Marco he has shown to be an equal of the admirals on the battlefield and has a better devil fruit.

13-Eneru-I don't rank him as high as the admirals because we know he doesn't have any use of haki while we have seen admirals counter people with Haki.

14-Mihawk-If he is the worlds strongest swordsman and this is who Zoro will ultimately be equal if not stronger then by the end of the manga then Mihawk has to be this high... I would love to rank him higher but I don't think he can defeat anyone higher then him.

15-Magellan- Pretty much made fodder of Blackbeard and his crew, and defeated Luffy relatively easily once he stopped messing around. Also defeated Iva who has been shown to be very powerful.

16-Luffy- Obviously being biased here, but I think in the next arc once he learns more about Haki he will differentiate himself from everyone I ranked below him

17-26, Sentamaru, Donflamingo, Kuma, Iva, Jimbei, Crocodile, Hancock, Moria, Shiryuu, Smoker- If all of these people fought the result would probably depend on who is fighting who.

27-42-The other 10 Supernova, Rob Lucci, and the Vice Admirals- I can try to rank these people but it is always going to be arguable

Unknowns:
-The Gorousi (the elder stars that act as advisors to Sengoku)
-Crews of the Yonkou including Vista who I had trouble placing
-Members of the Revolutionary Army
-Escaped prisoners of Impel Down
-My biggest unkown is Dadan who I really hope we see soon.
-Dr. Vegapunk, if he knows so much about how devil fruits and probably how haki works I am guessing he probably made some modifications to himself.

Adjuestments:
I expect Smoker, Luffy, Zoro, Blackbeard, Kidd, and Laws place on this list to change the most over the course of the manga.

vagabond87
March 21, 2010, 04:12 PM
And I don't recall the part where Kizaru faces WB do you have a page or chapter number?


Here Whitebeard was fast enough to slash Kizaru(I know it was sneak attack but whatever ;):
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/570-25/13
And here:
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/571-31/9
If Kizaru could shot Whiteberad through the head- he would do so. you dont play with the strongest man in the world:p

White Silver King
March 21, 2010, 04:39 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/08/
haki can indeed protect people from punches. Luffy's normal punches were pretty much bounced back by haki, it was only when he went all out the punches became effective.

Touche. I accept that, but whoever did it would have to be fast enough (faster than instantaneous) to touch him and release haki at the same time.


Here Whitebeard was fast enough to slash Kizaru(I know it was sneak attack but whatever :
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/570-25/13
And here:
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/571-31/9
If Kizaru could shot Whiteberad through the head- he would do so. you dont play with the strongest man in the world

Neither of those prove anything. As you said the first was a sneak attack, the very essence of a sneak attack is to "sneak". And the second proves nothing because 1) many MANY people have dished out less than fatal shots to enemies when they had the chance to kill them (it's the very essence of all action, fiction entertainment) and 2) Aokiji and Kizaru both "played with the strongest man in the world" and with the situation they were in, neither of them take anything seriously enough to actually fight all out including the war against WB as been shown.

vagabond87
March 21, 2010, 06:06 PM
Aokiji and Kizaru both "played with the strongest man in the world"

I don't recall that "played with the strongest man in the world" part do you have a page or chapter number? :p
Seriously they didnt played with him but if you want to see it this way...
Do you really think that if Ivankov was more than a match for Kuma, Whitebeard is to sloooooow for PX-0 before modifications???
One more thing- Garp is fast enough to handle Kuma:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/
All strawhats wasnt even able to react when Garp get past them and punched Luffy...

White Silver King
March 21, 2010, 06:19 PM
Do you really think that if Ivankov was more than a match for Kuma,

Uhm, proof please?


All strawhats wasnt even able to react when Garp get past them and punched Luffy...

That doesn't mean he moves at the speed of light.


I don't recall that "played with the strongest man in the world" part do you have a page or chapter number?

I'll look for it. I know at the very least both of them attacked him and neither of them even looked to be slightly serious, which I classify as "playing with".

karthikmurs
March 21, 2010, 06:38 PM
I don't believe this. You guys are trying to find the strongest character in the whole of One piece?

We know very very little of Shanks, Garp, Sengoku, BB, the five elder stars (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/233/16-17/)

Shank's powers are not yet shown. Garp is probably a Rokushiki master. Though the "five elder stars" are politicians, I doubt if thats all there is to their powers.. The way they were shown, they looked strong..

But IMO, Garp is the strongest.. No basis. No proofs. Its an opinion.. That's the best I can do from what we know.. :P

White Silver King
March 21, 2010, 06:45 PM
But IMO, Garp is the strongest.. No basis. No proofs. Its an opinion.. That's the best I can do from what we know.. :P

Sorry to burst your bubble but if Sengoku can restrain Garp that makes him stronger.

superman97
March 21, 2010, 07:24 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but if Sengoku can restrain Garp that makes him stronger.
-There is a reason Garp is considered a legend and Sengoku is not.
-Garp has been shown to have Haki when he punched Marco, and we still haven't seen Sengoku use it.
-Just because you can restrain someone does not mean anything. Someone can restrain someone stronger then them for a period of time.
-This is the same stupid logic that people go by when they say Mihawk is stronger then Shanks because he is labeled the strongest swordsman. SHANKS is a YONKOU who have crew members as strong as shichibukai.

For the people saying Kizaru moves at the speed of light and why does he just shoot lazers at peoples heads, is the same as saying why don't the pirates just shoot guns at peoples heads, it is for the sake of good action. I think he has only said he kicks at the speed of light not does everything, which once again would make for to powerful of a character to even draw if he does everything at the speed of light.

karthikmurs
March 21, 2010, 07:51 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but if Sengoku can restrain Garp that makes him stronger.

Ha ha You are basing that on what, "restrain"? We didn't see Garp trying to break that "restrain" (if you wanna call that) and Sengoku overpowering him again, did we? Garp is not STUPID to attack Sakuzuki for an act of "heroism" (from anybody's point of view but Pirates'), something that every marine has vowed to do.. See, its not right to base strength on mere acts like "restraining". I am sure either of them could restrain other.. So, if you wanna say something, I expect a little more reasoning.. Sorry, I don't buy your argument.

White Silver King
March 21, 2010, 07:54 PM
-There is a reason Garp is considered a legend and Sengoku is not.
That doesn't mean he's so godly powerful, it just means he did something that makes him a hero. And that was a REALLY long time ago, it's a pretty good chance someone is stronger.

-
Garp has been shown to have Haki when he punched Marco, and we still haven't seen Sengoku use it.
That means nothing, the Gorgon Sisters had Haki and kicked Luffy's ass (albeit until he discovered his), and even though Luffy discovered his Haki he's comparatively extremely weak, Vista has Haki he's not stronger than Akainu. Would you like more?


Just because you can restrain someone does not mean anything. Someone can restrain someone stronger then them for a period of time.
Garp was full of rage at the man who killed his grandson, with all that rage and adrenaline he couldn't get Sengoku off him, that means something.


-This is the same stupid logic that people go by when they say Mihawk is stronger then Shanks because he is labeled the strongest swordsman. SHANKS is a YONKOU who have crew members as strong as shichibukai.

That logic is stupid and irrelevant and has nothing to do with this. Mihawk may be the greatest swordsman but that doesn't mean he's better than everything else Shanks has. I'm comparing everything about Garp to everything about Sengoku and to me Sengoku is superior.


Ha ha You are basing that on what, "restrain"? We didn't see Garp trying to break that "restrain" (if you wanna call that) and Sengoku overpowering him again, did we? Garp is not STUPID to attack Sakuzuki for an act of "heroism" (from anybody's point of view but Pirates'), something that every marine has vowed to do.. See, its not right to base strength on mere acts like "restraining". I am sure either of them could restrain other.. So, if you wanna say something, I expect a little more reasoning.. Sorry, I don't buy your argument.

And it's even less right to base your opinions of Garp's strength on even less evidence than I have.

karthikmurs
March 21, 2010, 08:11 PM
And it's even less right to base your opinions of Garp's strength on even less evidence than I have.

Ok how about this?

1. Garp is probably a Rokushiki user. His noob trainee, coby, has mastered soru - one of its techniques. And he throws canon balls faster than cannons. He lifts a huge canon ball as if it was something. He gets past sanji even before he could react.. All these to "prove" he is a Rokushiki user.


2. He hits luffy and it "hurts" him. The hit was not a piercing attack, which would have hurt luffy. So conclusion, he HAS haki powers.

3. Its said Garp cornered Roger umpteen number of times. Shakki gave a testimonial to that saying that they (Roger's crew) were chased by Garp all the time. Yet, after all these, We still don't know if Sengoku was equally powerful. No where has it ever been even suggested..

Ok. So these were to show Garp is Strong and THESE are the basis for my opinion. Not "restrain", but something more.

And about Sengoku, he couldn't stop luffy on execution platform. Why? I mean, How? He didn't have any emotions that Garp had. Then how could he let go of Luffy from the execution platform? This doesn't indicate he is weak, taken. But, this has to tell something about his capacity.

Zatono
March 21, 2010, 08:19 PM
The strongest character in One Piece, that we've seen in action, has to be Whitebeard. I'm not even looking at the war, but I'm looking at his feats before that crappy "Gotta nerf WB" stuff happened.

He was on par with Roger, so that speaks volumes for itself. Whitebeard was able to sense Ace about to assassinate him in his damn sleep, and hit him in the face with a haki punch, sending him flying. There's a reason he was the World's Strongest Man. Oda wouldn't say that for no reason. Personally, I think in his old age he's probably still a bit above the current Yonkou.

After WB has to be Garp, then Sengoku, since they were apparently on par with Roger as well, but could never actually catch him themselves.

vagabond87
March 22, 2010, 02:13 AM
Uhm, proof please?
Proof that Ivankov was more than a match to PX-0:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/560/08-09/
After this we dodnt saw Kuma anymore and Ivankov was practically unscratched and able to fight untill last chapter and getting owned by Akainu.
About admirals playing with Whitebeard- deadliest of the admirals- Akainu was beaten with two hits and he WAS SERIOUS in this fight.
Strongest character is someone who wasnt fully shown yet- Kaidou.
He wanted to take out Whitebeard and is so strong that Shanks had to stop him from that and we still dont know outcome of tht battle. Shanks is certainly alive but we dont know who recidived more damage from that fight. I hope that we will know after the war.

Franckie
March 22, 2010, 09:03 AM
2. He hits luffy and it "hurts" him. The hit was not a piercing attack, which would have hurt luffy. So conclusion, he HAS haki powers.

It was a comedy scene. Otherwise, you'll have to argue that Nami has Haki too.

karthikmurs
March 22, 2010, 09:23 AM
It was a comedy scene. Otherwise, you'll have to argue that Nami has Haki too.

Not exactly... He gets head-lumps. And more over, sanji specifically says "hurts? How can that be? Aren't you made of rubber???"

Well, its up to us to interpret that. So obviously, the way I interpret that stand as basis of my judgment of Garp.

oh and when has nami hitting luffy hurt him?

White Silver King
March 22, 2010, 02:17 PM
1. Garp is probably a Rokushiki user. His noob trainee, coby, has mastered soru - one of its techniques. And he throws canon balls faster than cannons. He lifts a huge canon ball as if it was something. He gets past sanji even before he could react.. All these to "prove" he is a Rokushiki user.

Probably is not evidence, Sengoku is the boss of the CP-9 and he hasn't shown that he's even a slight user of Rokushiki. And Zoro has lifted buildings, he can throw a cannon ball too, massive strength in this series is not impressive.


He hits luffy and it "hurts" him. The hit was not a piercing attack, which would have hurt luffy. So conclusion, he HAS haki powers.


That means nothing, the Gorgon Sisters had Haki and kicked Luffy's ass (albeit until he discovered his), and even though Luffy discovered his Haki he's comparatively extremely weak, Vista has Haki he's not stronger than Akainu. Would you like more?

Actually read my post and then comment.


Its said Garp cornered Roger umpteen number of times. Shakki gave a testimonial to that saying that they (Roger's crew) were chased by Garp all the time. Yet, after all these, We still don't know if Sengoku was equally powerful. No where has it ever been even suggested..

That doesn't necessarily mean he corned him in a one-on-one fight. He could just as easily have trapped him on an island, cornered his ship with a bunch of other ships, or something like that and Roger got away which shows more about Roger than it does Garp. And Shakki's testimony means nothing, you can chase someone as much as you want it doesn't prove your powerful, if I chased a 300 pound 100% muscle assassin it doesn't make me stronger than him.


Ok. So these were to show Garp is Strong and THESE are the basis for my opinion. Not "restrain", but something more.

I never said Garp isn't strong, I'm sure he is. I just don't believe he is nearly as powerful as everyone has made him out to be.


And about Sengoku, he couldn't stop luffy on execution platform. Why? I mean, How? He didn't have any emotions that Garp had. Then how could he let go of Luffy from the execution platform? This doesn't indicate he is weak, taken. But, this has to tell something about his capacity.

Because he waited til the last second because he thought his guards were actually his guards and after that Luffy was just falling through the sky and since Sengoku doesn't have telekinesis he couldn't have plucked him out of mid-air. And he was confident enough in his Admirals to get Luffy once he fell.

vagabond87
March 22, 2010, 02:35 PM
Probably is not evidence, Sengoku is the boss of the CP-9 and he hasn't shown that he's even a slight user of Rokushiki

I know you like to see those:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/571/14-15/
Here you can see Sengoku probably using Rokushiki- to be precise Geppou.

karthikmurs
March 22, 2010, 02:37 PM
Actually read my post and then comment.

Which post exactly? And A small piece of advice, don't edit the quote tag. ITs difficult to make out to who you are replying..




That doesn't necessarily mean he corned him in a one-on-one fight.

That doesn't necessarily mean he didn't!!!! I am quite sure you don't understand the essence of an argument (healthy one, which we both are doing.. peace). we interpret and event in our own sense of understanding. We argue based on those assumptions.



I never said Garp isn't strong, I'm sure he is. I just don't believe he is nearly as powerful as everyone has made him out to be.

I am not that "everyone". And not everyone's opinion and sense of strength is the same. So whatever you have dealt before, don't let them bias an opinion. :)

White Silver King
March 22, 2010, 03:09 PM
I know you like to see those:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/571/14-15/
Here you can see Sengoku probably using Rokushiki- to be precise Geppou.

He isn't using Geppou, the platform is about 2 feet below him, that's what he's jumping off of.


Which post exactly? And A small piece of advice, don't edit the quote tag. ITs difficult to make out to who you are replying..

The quote right under your quote in my long message. And I don't know what you mean about the tag.

Franckie
March 22, 2010, 03:42 PM
Not exactly... He gets head-lumps. And more over, sanji specifically says "hurts? How can that be? Aren't you made of rubber???"

Well, its up to us to interpret that. So obviously, the way I interpret that stand as basis of my judgment of Garp.

It was a comedy scene. You can tell by Garp's nonsensical response. Keep in mind too how Luffy and Garp both fall asleep at the same time a few panels later, another scene played for laughs.


oh and when has nami hitting luffy hurt him?

Two examples:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/325/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/435/07/

Nami has Haki, or it was a scene played for laughs. Take your pick.

Schabrak
March 28, 2010, 07:47 AM
You don't realy consider Nami to be strong through haki? It's simply for comic releave and she was always the strongest of the Strawhats when on ship or internally within the crew. Doesn't mean there is no chance for her having haki, but that's not supposed to be posted in this thread.

sindergi
March 28, 2010, 10:12 AM
It was a comedy scene. You can tell by Garp's nonsensical response. Keep in mind too how Luffy and Garp both fall asleep at the same time a few panels later, another scene played for laughs.



Two examples:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/325/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/435/07/

Nami has Haki, or it was a scene played for laughs. Take your pick.

This.......im not saying that Nami has not Haki, maybe she has, maybe not - i personally hope that she has no Haki. Haki should be something special....and i dont want that too many people have it.

But these two scenes are defintely no proof for her haki - like you said - these scenes should only be funny and nothing more.

Lohnt
March 28, 2010, 10:24 AM
With Whitebeard dead...

1-Dragon:
-worlds most wanted man
-leads Iva who is arguably stronger then all the shichibukai
-Has Kings Haki
-Prediction time: He has mythical zoan Dragon fruit, and each mythical zoan has a unique power such has Marco recovering from injuries, and I think dragons is to control weather since a storm did come when he saved Luffy in Logue town.
-Son of Garp who is currently in his prime

2-Garp- Equal to Roger and Whitebeard, and can probably be fleet admiral right now. He claimed to be able to kill an admiral (akainu)

3-Sengoku- Fleet admiral that stands above 3 very powerful admirals and is currently holding off Blackbeards crew.

4-Shanks- Concidering Whitebeard was arguably the strongest of the Yonkou and Shanks was shown to be relatively equal with perfect control over Kings Haki I think he deserves this spot. Shanks is higher then rayleigh because we don't know if he has obtained a devil fruit, and because he is in his prime.

5-Rayleigh- Considered a legend, has perfect control of Kings Haki, and if he had the desire to he probably could have defeated Kizaru, but didn't since Kuma had a plan.

6-Blackbeard- Possesses 2 of the strongest devil fruits in the manga. The reason he ranks above the admirals is because they are all logias and he clearly has the advantage against a logia. With just his logia I would rate Aokiji above him but since he cant be frozen with the quake fruit he must be stronger.

7,8- Two unknown Yonkou- Lets face it, the Yonkou have got to individually be stronger then an admiral otherwise men has powerful as them would probably have been captured by now.

9,10,11, 12-Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, Marco- none of them have done anything to differentiate their power level from one another. I think with these 3 it depends on the opponent. As for Marco he has shown to be an equal of the admirals on the battlefield and has a better devil fruit.

13-Eneru-I don't rank him as high as the admirals because we know he doesn't have any use of haki while we have seen admirals counter people with Haki.

14-Mihawk-If he is the worlds strongest swordsman and this is who Zoro will ultimately be equal if not stronger then by the end of the manga then Mihawk has to be this high... I would love to rank him higher but I don't think he can defeat anyone higher then him.

15-Magellan- Pretty much made fodder of Blackbeard and his crew, and defeated Luffy relatively easily once he stopped messing around. Also defeated Iva who has been shown to be very powerful.

16-Luffy- Obviously being biased here, but I think in the next arc once he learns more about Haki he will differentiate himself from everyone I ranked below him

17-26, Sentamaru, Donflamingo, Kuma, Iva, Jimbei, Crocodile, Hancock, Moria, Shiryuu, Smoker- If all of these people fought the result would probably depend on who is fighting who.

27-42-The other 10 Supernova, Rob Lucci, and the Vice Admirals- I can try to rank these people but it is always going to be arguable

Unknowns:
-The Gorousi (the elder stars that act as advisors to Sengoku)
-Crews of the Yonkou including Vista who I had trouble placing
-Members of the Revolutionary Army
-Escaped prisoners of Impel Down
-My biggest unkown is Dadan who I really hope we see soon.
-Dr. Vegapunk, if he knows so much about how devil fruits and probably how haki works I am guessing he probably made some modifications to himself.

Adjuestments:
I expect Smoker, Luffy, Zoro, Blackbeard, Kidd, and Laws place on this list to change the most over the course of the manga.

I agree up to 12, Crocodile, Mihawk Enel etc all place in the same category for me. Crocodile proved in this war that he is on the level of Mihawk, and as for Shiriyuu and Magellan, Oda stated it himself that they are equal. I think it gets tricky after 12 and basically all of the above I mentioned fit into that category.

Anything below them would be up for debate.

BlackHair
March 31, 2010, 05:12 PM
It was a comedy scene. Otherwise, you'll have to argue that Nami has Haki too.It was indeed a comedy scene. however that punch of Garp wasn't. That hurt Luffy for real, since Sanji commented on that. So far I can remember everytime Luffy's rubber intangibility was bypassed there was a comment. So you can't put that punch of Garp equal to Nami's, even if the scene was for comedy purpose.

Anyway, I don't rly understand the discussion behind this, it is pretty much clear that Garp has haki. Marco was slightly hurt by Garp for a reason.

senewe
April 23, 2010, 11:02 AM
hahaha
It depends on this. could garp or sengoku beat shiki one on one, which I don't think they could?

Antares
May 01, 2010, 01:50 AM
I dunno about the absolute strongest, but he's definitely one of the strongest. Garp punched Marco bleeding without any kind of regard over Marco's ability to instant-heal. That alone depicts how much difference Garp's power even against someone like Marco. He's prime WB and Sengoku's level. And the mystery is this: When punched by Garp, any Fruit user stays COMPLETELY in their Fruit shape. Marco's Phoenix shape, Luffy's rubbery shape. It's different from Haki, for example WB's punch at Akainu hits and his Haki prevents Akainu from being intangible. But Garp's punch was something else. It didn't prevent someone from being intangible, it just ignore those intangibilities, leave them be, but defeat that intangibilities themselves. Creepy Fist, that Fist.

Wisshard
May 06, 2010, 06:56 PM
When punched by Garp, any Fruit user stays COMPLETELY in their Fruit shape. Marco's Phoenix shape, Luffy's rubbery shape. It's different from Haki, for example WB's punch at Akainu hits and his Haki prevents Akainu from being intangible. But Garp's punch was something else. It didn't prevent someone from being intangible, it just ignore those intangibilities, leave them be, but defeat that intangibilities themselves. Creepy Fist, that Fist.
Haki doesn't nullify or prevent someone from being intangible, atleast it hasn't been used to that effect so far (Blackbeard is the only one who has shown that ability). What Haki seems to do when infused with an attack is to bypass any potential Devil Fruit and enhance the destructive power. It does not rob, absorb, nullify, prevent or "turn off" the devil fruit it any way - that is the Yami Yami fruit.

BlackHair
May 06, 2010, 07:39 PM
The darkness fruit cancels out the DF, means the user can't use his devil fruit power at all. While by Haki the intangibility can be bypassed. However the user can still use his fruit powers.

Anyway, strongest man right now Garp or BB.

THM Nindo
May 24, 2010, 08:00 PM
Do Garp has a DF?
His fist of love, is that a DF?

Because, honestly, I didn't think that Garp is using Haki.

On the other side, when he hurt Luffy, he does hurt him for real.
But, I thought it was just the ability of his "fist of love".

Although, if he doesn't have a DF, I guess that his "fist of love" could simply be Haki-powered punches.

bittman
May 25, 2010, 01:47 AM
Well when Garp was first introduced, we assumed it was his devil fruit because we had no alternative explanation.

When Haki was introduced, we assumed it must be haki because it was the better alternative explanation.

When Garp having seastone knuckles get's explained in the future....well the point here is that right now it's actually impossible to say whether it's just haki, a DF or something even different again. Haki is a bit popular at the moment, and it would make sense for Garp the Hero to be able to use haki in such a manner, but perhaps he has a DF or ability of some description which exceeds that again? Until it's basically explicitally stated in the manga, we just have to do some educated guesswork.

Fox666
May 25, 2010, 05:19 PM
It was a comedy scene. You can tell by Garp's nonsensical response. Keep in mind too how Luffy and Garp both fall asleep at the same time a few panels later, another scene played for laughs.



Two examples:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/325/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/435/07/

Nami has Haki, or it was a scene played for laughs. Take your pick.Nami hurting Luffy scenes does not truly "exist", they are just like character eyeballs popping out of their heads.

In the other hand, scenes of Garp hurting Luffy, or falling asleep truly exist.

johnnyb7
May 26, 2010, 11:01 PM
Here's my list of guesses, these are based on one on one fights with each other

Strongest person Ever - Roger definitely
Strongest marine (ever) - Garp in his prime
Strongest marine (current) - Sengoku
Strongest marine (future) - Coby

Strongest people (current)
1) Sengoku - he isn't the leader of all the marines for no reason, the only person i would consider stronger would be Garp, but.... Sengoku could hold Garp down, whether that's an accurate portrayal of power or not I'd say Sengoku for #1
1b) I would have put Whitebeard up as number 1, but he's dead, and thus, not current
2) Garp - hero of the marines, he's luffy's grandpa, come on
3) Dragon - Leader of the group that is more feared by the world goverment then anyone else in the world, he has to have some amazing power, but the reason he's so feared now is because of the size of his group i'm guessing
5) Blackbeard - He has whitebeards devil fruit, that is increibly powerful. Along with this he has the ability to nullify anyone elses abilities. I'd put him above Shanks based on the fact that shanks has a handicap and BB has some crazy power.
4) Shanks - He clashed with Whitebeard and was fine, clashed with Kaidou (whoever the hell he is) and was fine, and scared blackbeard and all the marines, but sorry Shanks, you're one arm is a handicap, part of the scariness of your power is probably your crews power, when you scared Blackbeard he was wounded
6, 7) 2 unknown yonkou
8) Akainu - lava, took a hit from whitebeard
9) Rayleigh - A legend, can use kings haki perfectly, but Hancock can use kings haki as well. He's close to par with Kizaru as shown by his fight.
10, 11) Kizaru and Aokoji
12) Enel - (Luffy could beat him due to his ability but couldn't beat the people inbetween him and enel in my opinion) Has haki, very powerful
13) Kuma - he can blast anyone anywhere, i don't know why he gave up his free will but he's got some power
13) Majellan
14) Mihawk
15) Luffy
16) Jimbei
17) Sentamaru
18) Marco
19) Hancock
20) Crocodile
21) Smoker
22) Moria

I don't know where to put Doflamingo because i don't think he's good fighting one on one, he's got the power to control people but i don't think he can attack them while controlling them....

BlackHair
May 27, 2010, 02:52 AM
Strongest person Ever - Roger definitely
Roger was never stated as the strongest man. He was said to be the equal to Whitebeard and Garp. Roger was the most successful one, but not the strongest.

Schabrak
May 27, 2010, 07:21 AM
You also can't disclaim Roger to be the strongest pirate ever, as we just do not know, if he was or not. Top tier no doubt, but can't measure them right now, not till Oda says so in one of his future data books.

Franckie
May 27, 2010, 07:31 PM
Roger was never stated as the strongest man. He was said to be the equal to Whitebeard and Garp. Roger was the most successful one, but not the strongest.

Garp never won, let alone tied, with Roger in any of their fights. Shiki also states there wasn't a Marine alive when Roger lived who could best Roger in a fight.

Zatono
May 27, 2010, 07:46 PM
Garp never won, let alone tied, with Roger in any of their fights. Shiki also states there wasn't a Marine alive when Roger lived who could best Roger in a fight.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/551/05/

Roger himself disagrees with you.

BlackHair
May 27, 2010, 08:02 PM
I was rather saying Roger=WB=Garp, just like I would claim Akainu=Kizaru=Aokiji. They are not to be taken as literal equals though. I mean Kizaru seems to me as the strongest, likewise you would expect Roger to be the strongest among them, even if it's just about 1%. Anyway, without any doubts I think they are on close equal levels. That's why I stated them as equals.

Until we see the abilities of Garp, I don't see a reason to state Roger and WB as the only strongest.

Also Franckie, to which of Shiki's statement are you referring to?

Franckie
May 27, 2010, 08:11 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/551/05/

Roger himself disagrees with you.

Roger himself disagrees with you. Notice how doesn't state that Garp is equal to him in power in the scan. Only Whitebeard is stated to be Roger's equal. Also, let's not forget that another person, Shiki, states there wasn't a Marine alive when Roger lived who was a major threat to him.


I was rather saying Roger=WB=Garp, just like I would claim Akainu=Kizaru=Aokiji. They are not to be taken as literal equals though. I mean Kizaru seems to me as the strongest, likewise you would expect Roger to be the strongest among them, even if it's just about 1%. Anyway, without any doubts I think they are on close equal levels. That's why I stated them as equals.

Until we see the abilities of Garp, I don't see a reason to state Roger and WB as the only strongest.
The problem with the comparisons is that while the 3 Admirals have the same hype word-per-word, Roger and Garp do not. You can rate them as both being top-tier, but equal? No.


Also Franckie, to which of Shiki's statement are you referring to?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/11/

BlackHair
May 27, 2010, 08:47 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/11/The way I see it: Shiki admired/respected Roger as his own equal, thus he couldn't accept anyone else beside him defeating him. So I don't think we can take Shiki's words as facts. It's his charackter speaking, not someone neutral.

On the other hand, we have Roger saying that he and Garp fought many times to near death. If Roger was rly easily stronger than Garp, then he couldn't have fought him to near death. So like said before, Garp should be close to Roger and Whitebeard and thus stating them as equals should be fine. After all it was never said Garp lost to Roger/WB.

Another example: The WB Pirates were said to be the strongest and most powerful pirate crew. Yet there were three other Pirate crews on their equal level.

Franckie
May 27, 2010, 10:46 PM
The way I see it: Shiki admired/respected Roger as his own equal, thus he couldn't accept anyone else beside him defeating him. So I don't think we can take Shiki's words as facts. It's his charackter speaking, not someone neutral.

Shiki is biased? Shiki flat out states the Marines capturing Roger to be a load of bull, citing Roger's strength as counter evidence. We know Roger being arrested is a lie, which makes Shiki's assessment true. Shiki also has a pretty good idea on how Roger's strength compares to anyone in the Marines, especially since Shiki himself is a legendary pirate who personally fought with Roger. He knows what he's talking about.


On the other hand, we have Roger saying that he and Garp fought many times to near death. If Roger was rly easily stronger than Garp, then he couldn't have fought him to near death. So like said before, Garp should be close to Roger and Whitebeard and thus stating them as equals should be fine. After all it was never said Garp lost to Roger/WB.

If the difference in ability between Garp and Roger is neglible as you insist, then why did Garp never win, let alone tie, with Roger in a fight?


Another example: The WB Pirates were said to be the strongest and most powerful pirate crew. Yet there were three other Pirate crews on their equal level.

Shiryuu and Magellan are stated to be "equal" too. Yet that didn't stop Magellan from beating Shiryuu's ass and sending him to death row.

Schabrak
May 28, 2010, 03:27 AM
Not Shiki is biased, your are Franckie. Where does Shiki say, that Roger is stronger than anybody? Where does he compare Roger to anybody? He only said, that they would be able to rule over the world. Not such a suprise, if Shiki had a Yonkou like status. Even now the Marines aren't able to take on Yonkou at the same time. What does fight near death mean? That they got into a lot of ties!
Nothing stopped Magellan from one hit K.O.ing the mighty Blackbeard, even thhough he was seen so powerful even before he got WBs powers. His most powerfull attack is most probably able to kill everybody in the One Piece world, if it touches the person or there's no antidot available. So how should Shiryuu be able to defend himself, if there was no escape route?

You can be equal in strength and still have a massive dis-/advantage in a VS fight. Location, strength, experience, powers, luck, dis-/advantages are all vital parts of every fight in the OP world

Lord Rayleigh
May 28, 2010, 06:17 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/11/
You're stretching it. It does not say that not a single marine has ever been equal to Roger. It only means that no marine was able to capture him.

To capture someone, you need to be really stronger than him. If people are equal or around the same level, one may win but both would be near to death. After such a fight, in this state, nobody can capture and bring back someone to a jail.

After a fight against Garp, Roger was obviously not able to move, knocked down - and so was Garp. That's why Roger said they nearly killed each other. And because it happened a lot of times, it means Roger and Garp have always been equal.

So Garp could not capture Roger because he could not be stronger than Roger, but not because he was less strong than him.
And If Garp tried so many times to capture Roger, it is because he thought that one day he would be able to stand up after their fight and capture the half-dead Roger.

BlackHair
May 28, 2010, 08:45 AM
I don't rly have much to add, Schabrak and L.Rayleigh already covered for me.


Shiki is biased? Shiki flat out states the Marines capturing Roger to be a load of bull, citing Roger's strength as counter evidence. We know Roger being arrested is a lie, which makes Shiki's assessment true. Shiki also has a pretty good idea on how Roger's strength compares to anyone in the Marines, especially since Shiki himself is a legendary pirate who personally fought with Roger. He knows what he's talking about. I might be also stretching on this, but to me its obvious that Shiki admired him. The moment he heard of his capture, he shot one of his own man. Even as he was rotting in ID, he still regretted what happened to Roger. Take Shiki as some Roger fanboy. In his small world Roger was the only one equal to him. He couldn't accept the fact that anyone else was able to beat/tie with him. Yet we know of WB = Roger. I mean he called the MHQ "wimps". I don't see how you can take his words seriously.



If the difference in ability between Garp and Roger is negligible as you insist, then why did Garp never win, let alone tie, with Roger in a fight? Killing each other = Tie.


Shiryuu and Magellan are stated to be "equal" too. Yet that didn't stop Magellan from beating Shiryuu's ass and sending him to death row. That was offpanel. We have no clue what happened between them. Magallan could have easily attacked from behind or w/e.

Equal and stuff only works in fair 1vs1 fights, without any advantages for each of them.

Franckie
May 28, 2010, 04:51 PM
Not Shiki is biased, your are Franckie. Where does Shiki say, that Roger is stronger than anybody? Where does he compare Roger to anybody? He only said, that they would be able to rule over the world. Not such a suprise, if Shiki had a Yonkou like status. Even now the Marines aren't able to take on Yonkou at the same time. What does fight near death mean? That they got into a lot of ties!
Nothing stopped Magellan from one hit K.O.ing the mighty Blackbeard, even thhough he was seen so powerful even before he got WBs powers. His most powerfull attack is most probably able to kill everybody in the One Piece world, if it touches the person or there's no antidot available. So how should Shiryuu be able to defend himself, if there was no escape route?

You can be equal in strength and still have a massive dis-/advantage in a VS fight. Location, strength, experience, powers, luck, dis-/advantages are all vital parts of every fight in the OP world

Roger is too strong for the Marines = The Marines are weaker than Roger. Same idea, but worded differently. Oda has also affirmed in both manga and databook that WB is the only person who could fight Roger to a draw. Why do you think Garp was introduced as "the Marine who cornered the Pirate King on several occassions" instead of "the Marine who fought Roger to a draw"?


You're stretching it. It does not say that not a single marine has ever been equal to Roger. It only means that no marine was able to capture him.

To capture someone, you need to be really stronger than him. If people are equal or around the same level, one may win but both would be near to death. After such a fight, in this state, nobody can capture and bring back someone to a jail.

After a fight against Garp, Roger was obviously not able to move, knocked down - and so was Garp. That's why Roger said they nearly killed each other. And because it happened a lot of times, it means Roger and Garp have always been equal.

So Garp could not capture Roger because he could not be stronger than Roger, but not because he was less strong than him.

And If Garp tried so many times to capture Roger, it is because he thought that one day he would be able to stand up after their fight and capture the half-dead Roger.

A two-minute analysis will tell you that the fights between Roger and Garp weren't gentlemen 1on1 fights. Garp is famous because he cornered Roger on several occassions. Garp wouldn't have been able to corner Roger on his own though (unless Roger turns out to be a real idiot). The actual cornering part takes place with ships as the smallets units. Breaking out involves chaotic crew to crew combat. Garp is not required to be as strong as Roger to have a chance to deliver a fatal blow since he had superior manpower at his disposal.

Garp kept picking a fight with Roger because as he explains here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/03/), he wanted to defeat Roger himself. He had a rivalry with Roger just as Shiki and WB did.

Care to explain why WB is stated to be Roger's only equal?


I might be also stretching on this, but to me its obvious that Shiki admired him. The moment he heard of his capture, he shot one of his own man. Even as he was rotting in ID, he still regretted what happened to Roger. Take Shiki as some Roger fanboy. In his small world Roger was the only one equal to him. He couldn't accept the fact that anyone else was able to beat/tie with him. Yet we know of WB = Roger. I mean he called the MHQ "wimps". I don't see how you can take his words seriously.

"Fanboy" or not, the fact remains Shiki was right about Roger being arrested to be a lie. It's also fact that out of the several times the marines succeeded in cornering Roger, they lost every fight they had with him.


Killing each other = Tie.

Look at the entire statement. It speaks there were instances where Garp and/or Roger delivered fatal blows to each other, not that they're equal in strength.


That was offpanel. We have no clue what happened between them. Magallan could have easily attacked from behind or w/e.

Equal and stuff only works in fair 1vs1 fights, without any advantages for each of them.

I don't recall the exact chapter, but there was a flashback where Magellan confronts Shiryuu who is standing in the middle of a pile of corpses. There was no sneak attack when a fight broke out between the two.

Oda isn't going to bother showcasing a fight between Roger and Garp. If he had any intention of making Garp and Roger "equal" to each other, Oda would have mentioned that Garp tied with Roger just as WB did.

Schabrak
May 29, 2010, 04:25 AM
Firstly: Stop stating your asumptions as FACTS damn it!

"You all know how strong that man is" != "Roger is to strong for the Marines"
And fighting to a draw doesn't equal to same strength too. One party could always lose, even if it were of equal quality. The idea of those databooks being dated didn't came to your conclusion?


Garp wouldn't have been able to corner Roger on his own though.
Baseless statement.
You are also ignoring that fact, that both Roger and Garp fought with their crews and that we NEVER saw them actually fight. So stop talking like you did please.


When two equal people are fighting, may it be real martial arts tournament or in a Beat'em Up, it doesn't mean that one won't win over the other. And so it's the same with Magellan and Shiryuu. [If] they have fought, a case we don't know about, Shiryuu only had to be poisened to lose in the end, even if they were on the same level of strength. Not all fall and aren't able to move like Ace VS Jinbei.

Lord Rayleigh
May 29, 2010, 04:45 PM
A two-minute analysis will tell you that the fights between Roger and Garp weren't gentlemen 1on1 fights. Garp is famous because he cornered Roger on several occassions. Garp wouldn't have been able to corner Roger on his own though (unless Roger turns out to be a real idiot). The actual cornering part takes place with ships as the smallets units. Breaking out involves chaotic crew to crew combat. Garp is not required to be as strong as Roger to have a chance to deliver a fatal blow since he had superior manpower at his disposal.

Can't you notice the distance between your conclusions and the truth ?
You first conclude that their fights were not fair, that they were not Garp versus Roger, and then that one time Roger did a surprise attack that K.O. Garp, and the next time, Garp did it etc...
And all of that come from " We nearly killed each other ". That's impressive !

Not to say your conclusions - coming from nowhere - do not make any sense.
If Garp was able to deliver a one fatal blow to Roger, Roger would not be the Pirate King - and Garp would have captured him (easily). And if Roger could one hit K.O. Garp, Garp would not be the Hero of the Marine.
And Roger and Garp fought against EACH OTHER, not against with the help of their crew against the other's one ...

Franckie
May 29, 2010, 11:03 PM
Firstly: Stop stating your asumptions as FACTS damn it!

"You all know how strong that man is" != "Roger is to strong for the Marines"
And fighting to a draw doesn't equal to same strength too. One party could always lose, even if it were of equal quality. The idea of those databooks being dated didn't came to your conclusion?

"Roger being arrested is a load of bull" -> "You all know how strong that man is" -> "There's no way you wimps can arrest Roger"

Where's the assumption? Shiki was right about Roger's arrest being a load of bull because of Roger's immense strength. There's also the fact that during Roger's years as Pirate King, the Marines were never in a position to capture Roger. We also know the Marines have trouble keeping legendaries confined (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/02-03/).

Databooks are canon as long as they don't contradict the manga.


Baseless statement.
You are also ignoring that fact, that both Roger and Garp fought with their crews and that we NEVER saw them actually fight. So stop talking like you did please.

Cornering someone = chasing them until they have nowhere to run and have to fight to get out. Now where do you think Garp cornered Roger: (A) On top of a mountain, (B) in a dark alley, or (C) on the high seas? Considering how the Opworld is mostly water, C is the most probable scenario. In addition, you'll see an example of Roger being cornered here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/06-07/) by someone other than Garp (on the high seas btw).

Keep in mind Garp would have to go through Roger's crew (which counts as part of Roger's strength) if he wants to get to Roger. Seriously, how could Garp corner Roger with pesky people like Rayleigh around Roger all the time? Garp wouldn't be able to do such a thing on his own.


When two equal people are fighting, may it be real martial arts tournament or in a Beat'em Up, it doesn't mean that one won't win over the other. And so it's the same with Magellan and Shiryuu. [If] they have fought, a case we don't know about, Shiryuu only had to be poisened to lose in the end, even if they were on the same level of strength. Not all fall and aren't able to move like Ace VS Jinbei.

Ace vs Jinbei is an example of 2 fighters being equal in strength. Other examples in One Piece are Roger vs WB and Kaidou vs Moria. Shiryuu would put up a better fight against Magellan than someone like Luffy would, but if Shiryuu is unable to find a means to combat Magellan's poison, then that means Shiryuu is weaker than him.


Can't you notice the distance between your conclusions and the truth ?
You first conclude that their fights were not fair, that they were not Garp versus Roger, and then that one time Roger did a surprise attack that K.O. Garp, and the next time, Garp did it etc...
And all of that come from " We nearly killed each other ". That's impressive !

Not to say your conclusions - coming from nowhere - do not make any sense.
You are under the impression that Garp vs Roger is a 1on1 fight when in truth it would have been a crew vs crew fight. Same case with Roger vs Shiki and Roger vs Whitebeard. Anything can happen in such fights. Roger can get distracted and Garp gives him a kidney blow for it. In another fight the vice-versa happens to Garp. Still, the real problem here is that there's too many unknown factors to account for. Nevertheless, it was never been affirmed that Garp and Roger brought each other to the brink of death at the same time numerous times.


If Garp was able to deliver a one fatal blow to Roger, Roger would not be the Pirate King - and Garp would have captured him (easily). And if Roger could one hit K.O. Garp, Garp would not be the Hero of the Marine.
And Roger and Garp fought against EACH OTHER, not against with the help of their crew against the other's one ...

You do know that not all fatal injuries induce automatic death, right? Take Zoro as an example. During Thriller Bark, he took Luffy's injuries on top of his own. His injuries were fatal, but he didn't instantly die from them. Luckily the SHs keep a doctor around in case of such instances. Roger too had a doctor on hand (Crocus). Garp obviously had access to a doctor as well.

On a side note, let me ask you something: We know WB = Roger. If Roger = Garp (as you and others insist), then logically-speaking, WB = Garp, no? So riddle me this: Why is WB considered stronger than Garp?

bittman
May 30, 2010, 02:52 AM
On a side note, let me ask you something: We know WB = Roger. If Roger = Garp (as you and others insist), then logically-speaking, WB = Garp, no? So riddle me this: Why is WB considered stronger than Garp?

Must have missed where Whitebeard talked down to Garp like he was an insolent brat that was far weaker than him. Or where anyone anywhere compared the two...ever? Closest thing to comparison between WB and Garp is where they both showed some level of respect for the other and shared one jest.

And yes, afraid I'm joining the more popular side here, but there's been some things I would count as incorrect based on the one statement I think we're all arguing from.

Firstly: Ignoring Shiki. Not because I don't think his words are important or canon (which they are), but I find no comparison in there. Respect and adoration, sure. And sure, Shiki rates Roger as the strongest around, but a pirate looking up at another pirate isn't going to rate someone he hates as strong (especially with Shiki's bias). You think Luffy would rate anyone below Shanks? (Not the same level of adoration, but sort of where I'm coming from). Point is: Shiki believed Roger was invincible since he defeated him. Belief is not fact, and Shiki is not a roaming databook.

Secondly, and mainly: The words are as follows:
"The two of us have nearly killed each other so many times"

What can we take from this?

It is impossible to say if they were 1 on 1 duels or many vs many. Both sides have argued poorly here because some have assumed it was obviously a 1v1 duel, and Franckie you have basically implied you think it was Garp + marines vs lone-gunslinger Roger at times, though I see more recent posts ammending that.
Assuming that, by escaping, Roger was greater than Garp. Can't say that, like saying that Luffy is greater than Smoker because he escaped. Would you also say that Luffy is far greater to Lucchi because he escaped? No, Luffy had the support of his crew after victory.
The reverse could also be said. Garp, like Smoker to Luffy, may have been able to corner and nearly capture Roger many times. But through some support and a bit of luck, Roger was able to escape. Think about it this way: Even if Garp beat Roger (probably a close battle to start with), if Rayleigh was then in good health, Garp would not be able to then back it up against someone potentially just as powerful. If Lucchi had beaten Luffy, and it would have been only just, but then Zoro walked in on nearly 100% health, then Luffy would escape.
The ONLY fact we can take from this is that Garp and Roger have had many fights, and probably a few close ones. There's nothing there to counter me saying that perhaps it was a mix of completely one sided battles.

Franckie, I must admit that you are showing a lot of bias towards Roger in your posts, and though not resulting to a bunch of made up things, you're linking some very casual words to events that may or may not have happened.

I'm also confused, since in the last post you state Roger's strength as also that inherited from having a strong crew. Do you know the people Garp used to travel with and whether they were equal to Rayleigh and the like, or did Garp walk through half of Roger's crew to then inflict these "nearly killed" blows?

Of course, all the reverse said here could also be true. My point is that I find no evidence in One Piece to suggest that Roger was greater than Garp, or vice versa. Most evidence seems to point to an equality between the two, and though you can theorise that Roger > Garp (or vice-versa), there exists no blatant hard evidence.

Anyway, that's my 15 cents. I find it impossible to compare the legendaries based off circumstances alone. Typed more than I thought here, but they're all very long posts to begin with anyway.

Franckie
May 30, 2010, 08:25 AM
Must have missed where Whitebeard talked down to Garp like he was an insolent brat that was far weaker than him. Or where anyone anywhere compared the two...ever? Closest thing to comparison between WB and Garp is where they both showed some level of respect for the other and shared one jest.

WB held the title of "strongest" for 22 years. If Garp, who is supposadely equal to Roger, is equal to WB too, then why isn't the title of "strongest" shared between the two?


I'm also confused, since in the last post you state Roger's strength as also that inherited from having a strong crew. Do you know the people Garp used to travel with and whether they were equal to Rayleigh and the like, or did Garp walk through half of Roger's crew to then inflict these "nearly killed" blows?

Garp explains here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/501/03/) the danger of taking on two legends at the same time. The Roger Pirates have two confirmed legendaries: Roger and Rayleigh. Without proper care, MHQ would end up losing an awful amount of Marines. Even if MHQ succeeded in capturing a legendary, as Kizaru explains here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/02-03/), they're still a major pain to deal with.

The Marines that would accompany Garp wouldn't be small fry. You'll see Garp and Sengoku going on the same mission here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/04/). On that page and the previous, you'll see additional characters such as Momonga, Aokiji, Akainu, Tsuru, Saul, and Yamakaji. MHQ obviously uses its "elite" when dealing with pirates such as Roger (+ crew).

Lord Rayleigh
May 30, 2010, 09:50 AM
WB held the title of "strongest" for 22 years. If Garp, who is supposadely equal to Roger, is equal to WB too, then why isn't the title of "strongest" shared between the two?
In a fight, some people are said to be equal because when they fight against each other, they nearly kill each other. Yet, one of them is the strongest because he is physically stronger, more resistent, has the King Haki etc ...

The best example is Akainu and Whitebeard. A lot of people said they were disappointed by Whitebeard because Akainu was able to hold him and injure him, the strongest man of the world.
Whitebeard has indeed a fighting power similar to the Admirals [in a one vs. one] but he is/was the strongest man because nobody expect him could have endured all the injuries he got in the war and still fight to the end, and also because he's got a the best mass destructive power.
NB : against one man, magma is more destructive than quakes.


Garp explains here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/501/03/) the danger of taking on two legends at the same time. The Roger Pirates have two confirmed legendaries: Roger and Rayleigh. Without proper care, MHQ would end up losing an awful amount of Marines. Even if MHQ succeeded in capturing a legendary, as Kizaru explains here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/02-03/), they're still a major pain to deal with.
Actually, they are not arguments in your favour.
Does you suggest that Garp could not capture Roger because he could not beat two legendaries in a row, or at the same time ?
Does you mean that Garp beat Roger but did not manage to bring such a strong man to MHQ/ID ?
So, Garp was the strongest but could not capture them. :p


The Marines that would accompany Garp wouldn't be small fry. You'll see Garp and Sengoku going on the same mission here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/04/). On that page and the previous, you'll see additional characters such as Momonga, Aokiji, Akainu, Tsuru, Saul, and Yamakaji. MHQ obviously uses its "elite" when dealing with pirates such as Roger (+ crew).
The MHQ decided that only one legendary marine would deal with the Roger and Golden pirates - Sengoku. However, Garp, a THE legendary marine, decided that he would come with Sengoku, what Kong and Sengoku both did not want.

Garp asked Tsuru if he could come with her IF she was on the mission. We don't know if she was. Anyway, the other strong marines were there to deal with the pirate crews, not with the legendaries directly. That was Sengoku's job to take care of the three of them - Shiki, Rayleigh and Roger. That's why Sengoku was upset when Garp said he'd come : Garp come to take care of Roger, one of the men Sengoku was supposed to take care of.

And it's obvious Garp came to fight only Roger and no one else. Garp was only interested in fighting Roger. And of course, in this whole marine life, he managed to meet and fight Roger alone.

hibar90
May 30, 2010, 10:23 AM
I'm sorry but my memory couldn't recall if WB was called the strongest for 22 years. If we go only by title of who is the strongest character in onepiece as of yet, then it's WB. He is claimed the strongest man on earth. By his size and weight, it's obvious he should be the strongest human. And yet Garp who is a normal human size could throw a huge cannon ball. But, if he fought equally to Roger who is just as strong how come he's not the pirate king? Well, pirate king is the person with most freedom not strongest. And does it take two people of equal strength to have a draw? You could have more technique, speed and experience to compensate your lack of strength.

WB fought Roger to equal, Garp doesn't have the reputation of that coz he achieved something higher already. He's the Marine who cornered Roger many times. Calling him a marine who fought Roger to equal would be demotion. If you're equal you would slug it out in the middle of the ring like, no one will back away until both are knocked down. But in Garp case they slug it out and Roger back away to the corner/rope and that's what I get from "cornered Roger many times". Of course they do this while almost having each other killed, it's a close match but in term of 1v1 brawl strength I can see Garp doing it. This is only going by "The Legendary Marine who cornered the Pirate King many times".

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/04/

It was originally Sengoku mission to capture Shiki. However, Roger was also there. So, Garp stepped in because Roger is his target and he won't let Sengoku to steal his chance. In term of crew strength Roger's is probably the strongest. He had only one ship that held off Shiki 50 ships. That's probably the reason Roger escaped a handful of times, Luck and reliable crews.

Wisshard
June 04, 2010, 04:07 PM
Personally, I interpret Garp's reputation of cornering Gol D. Roger that he pursued and outmanovered him at sea and sometimes was able to pin down Oro Jackson, forcing Roger pirates to a fight. And obviously, going by Roger's word to Garp, they did fight each other and even coming close to killing each other during those skirmishes. But I never interpreted it that Garp fought the late Pirate King mano-mano and cornering him in that sense. Ship vs. ship style, not duel style (and of course, I find it likely that Garp had a strong marine crew of his own (i.e. VA's etc) to match the legendary crew he was pursuing).

Garp is plenty strong, that much is evident, but I find it more appealing if it's another person (i.e. Blackbeard) that Luffy has to overcome to obtain the status of the late Gol D. Roger (Pirate King and Strongest Champ in the World).

johnnyb7
June 06, 2010, 04:21 PM
Roger was never stated as the strongest man. He was said to be the equal to Whitebeard and Garp. Roger was the most successful one, but not the strongest.

Good point. I would put whitebeard as the strongest ever then. cause he had some crazy power.

bittman
June 06, 2010, 07:13 PM
Garp is plenty strong, that much is evident, but I find it more appealing if it's another person (i.e. Blackbeard) that Luffy has to overcome to obtain the status of the late Gol D. Roger (Pirate King and Strongest Champ in the World).

Well the debate is centered around who is currently the strongest. Blackbeard's strength is expected to continue to grow throughout the course of the manga as he continues through his fate-heavy plans.

Though the debate is currently surrounding who was the strongest, (when I can't read WB/Garp/Roger as anything else but a tie), we were continually shown with WB that age had taken an enormous toll upon him. WB went into the battle expecting to die, I never read the entire arc any differently. To me, it wasn't the stab wound that sealed his fate, but the moment he took off the IV drip to show off.

Anyway, point would be that, though Garp appears to be younger than Whitebeard, most likely we're looking at someone who is at least 60 years old. Legends of this age (WB and Rayleigh) have constantly been illustrated as weakened. Rayleigh struggled to handle Kizaru, and WB was unable to really show a clear dominance over any of the next-gen admirals.

What Shonens usually do is this:

Legend Generation - The oldies who still live on. Due to their age, the only way they would possibly still be alive is if they were legendarily powerful.

Current Generation - Powerful, mature fighters who have become well known in their own rights, but their power can range from everywhere between weak to super powerful. Most people here have either hit the limits of their ability, or don't have a lot of room left to grow.

New Generation - The rising stars who attempt to overtake the last generation. Most fight amongst their own generation, and rarely do they come out victorious against fighters of current gen who hit a high limit of their ability.

You can literally apply this formula to anything.
One Piece -
Legend Gen = Whitebeard, Garp
Current Gen = Crocodile, Akainu, Shanks, Morgan
New Gen = Luffy, Kidd, Smoker, Bellamy

Naruto -
Legend Gen = Jiraiya, Madara
Current Gen = Kakashi, Itachi, Iruka, Kisame
New Gen = Naruto, Sasuke, Rock Lee

Bleach -
Legend Gen = Yamamoto, Unohona, Barragan
Current Gen = Urahara, Aizen, Byakuya
New Gen = Ishida, Ichigo, Rukia, Renji

HSDKenichi -
Legend Gen = Invincible Superman, Kushina, Demon God-Fist
Current Gen = Sasaki, Akisame, Apachi
New Gen = Kenichi, Miu, Takeda

And so on and so forth. So what's the point for tl;dr? Basically, legends are typically the strongest of the bunch, because that's what makes them living legends. However, the current gen can be quite close to the legends and striving to overtake them, whilst the new gen continues to catch up.

Dasbones
June 06, 2010, 07:21 PM
Pandaman could easily destroy all of the characters in one piece, we should be grateful that Oda hasn't unleashed him in any current battle yet.

BlackHair
July 04, 2010, 03:23 PM
Even though the Garp and Roger discussion seem to have ended, I still want to add a small minor post to round up my opinion on this. Im very well aware that Im late with this, since Im currently annoyed with the current chapters of OP I didn't feel like posting at all. Anyway, I've changed my mind :p

It is common among shounen manga that characters get to know each other through fighting, same applies in One Piece. WB confirms this while talking to Shanks (panel 1 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/10/)). WB was considered equal to Roger, both must have fought several times to death. Even though both are enemies, they still became friends (page 12 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/576/12/)). Same case with Garp, Roger confirms here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/551/05/) that both fought several times to death (plural!). Furthermore, Roger entrusted his unborn child with Garp, this is very much proof of the simple fact that Roger had with Garp a similar relationship like with WB. Garp was asking Tsuru for a ride (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/03/) and forced himself on Sengoku's ship. Garp has no interest in fame (panel 1 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/04/)) or such, he is very similar to Luffy. All he wanted is to fight Roger. This everything is by any means not the profile of someone who attacks with a supreme fleet, like Shiki (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/06-07/) did.

Franckie, you asked us 1) why the title strongest is not shared between WB and Garp and 2) why WB is stated as Roger's only equal.

About ur second question, I could also ask you: why Shanks who was acknowledge by WB, who later became a Yonkou and who also competed with Mihawk, lost a arm to a mere sea beast? which Luffy 1hitet in the very same chapter10 years later.

My answer: It is true that Oda stated WB as Roger's only (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/233/13/) equal. That was back in Chapter 233, more than 5 years ago. It is not unusual that mangaka tend to change their opinion in a long running manga. Oda began to develop Shanks and also Garp. Even Oda wasn't planning well far ahead. Shanks is imo the best proof of that. Garp was at the beginning only minor character in the cover story. Later Oda introduced him as the man who cornered the PK, a member of the D family and direct blood relative with the main protagonist, a marine who declined the so called strongest rank "Admiral" and lastly as one of the men who fought Roger equally. I think it is rather obvious that Oda developed Garp into a marine equal to great pirates such as Roger and WB, without directly going against his previous statement. Anyway, I wouldn't cling myself onto a statement which is over 5 years old, while we have new! informations which might contradict with that.

About ur first question, we have still no real informations on Garp's fighting ability. But at this point, I assume Roger=WB=Garp might have a paper- scissor-rock relationship. Due to devil fruit powers, the one could have advantages to another. Well there could be all kind of reasons and as long we have no information on Garp's ability, except his physical strength and haki, I can hardly answer ur question.

Anyway, Roger himself stated that both fought many times to near death. It is clearly more than one fight, I rly fail to see how Garp can fight Roger to that extent if he is not his equal. Doesn't rly make any sense to me.
[hr]
Original post which now my writing is based on (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1971269#post1971269)



The databook states that Whitebeard did not loose any of his strength from his prime.
I guess you must have read a fake or sth. WB lost his agility, which is sign of weakening. Furthermore Marco & Croco pointed out that he not as strong as he was before, as WB was stabbed by Squardo.



And in my opinion Whitebeard completely loose to Akainu. In their first combat, Akainu did a severe injure in Whitebeard chest. When?


In a 1vs1 there is no character currently who could have defeated WB fairly. With fair, I mean a fight where neither of the parties have some sort of advantages/disadvantages. Basically a fight under neutral circumstances.


The moment WB stepped down from his ship, nothing was fair anymore. One of his alliance-mate was played and WB ended up with a hole in his chest. I don't need to mention that before the vs Akainu fight, WB was multiple wounded by the marines. While Akainu was fresh, without any signs of damage. That battle was no way in hell fair.

Yes Akainu was able to take half of his face, but WB was in a hurry. While for Akainu it was just vs WB, for WB it was more like vs MHQ. He needed to buy time for his crew's escape, while he was holding the entire MHQ. So he couldn't focus only on Akainu.

Now imagine, if it wasn't MHQ but just Akainu, don't you think WB would have jumped on Akainu and focused more attacks on him, even after he felled down? So not just 2 hits, but more.. way more. I think it is pretty clear that Akainu couldn't fight anymore after the 2nd hit. That's why I can't imagine him surviving further hits, while WB who was shot and stabbed several times, who also lost his face and had a hole in his chest, was still not down.

The way I see it, WB wanted to take down Akainu as fast as possible (reasons: Ace and Crews safty), so he let him take his face, but landed two fast hits. Under normal condition the WB vs Akainu fight would have lasted way longer, WB wouldn't have lost his face in a few seconds and Akainu wouldn't have been defeated so early.

WB vs anyone displayed so far = WB -> the strongest man
WB vs 2 last tier = 2 last tier

WB portrayed his superiority, not to mention Oda did not make him lose in a 1vs1 fight. It was more like WB fought the entire MHQ.
[hr]

Whitebeard would not do as much damage as Blackbeard did (Whitebeard failed to destroy the marines HQ). :p That's not sth we can tell for sure. I believe WB did more dmg. And BB didn't destroy the MHQ.

Lord Rayleigh
July 04, 2010, 03:31 PM
Whitebeard may also have been Roger's only equal because both were pirates. They were equal because they were at the same level in the same world, that is to say piracy. They were considered equal in their rivalry.

About Garp, he could never be Roger's equal since he was in a different world, fighting for justice. How could a Marine be equal to a Pirate ? Garp and Roger never competed for anything whereas Whitebeard and Roger did.

Fox666
July 04, 2010, 04:39 PM
I guess you must have read a fake or sth. WB lost his agility, which is sign of weakening. Furthermore Marco & Croco pointed out that he not as strong as he was before, as WB was stabbed by Squardo.But I said he loose his agility...

That battle was no way in hell fair.Yes. The whole thing about Ace execution was not fair for Whitebeard to begin with.

However, that's why I did not said that Akainu was stronger than Whitebeard, Whitebeard still deserve his title of strongest man.

But he win over Whitebeard, afterall.

Now imagine, if it wasn't MHQ but just Akainu, don't you think WB would have jumped on Akainu and focused more attacks on him, even after he felled down? So not just 2 hits, but more.. way more. I think it is pretty clear that Akainu couldn't fight anymore after the 2nd hit. That's why I can't imagine him surviving further hits, while WB who was shot and stabbed several times, who also lost his face and had a hole in his chest, was still not down.But Akainu still had lot of strength to pursue Jinbei. And he hide himself underground. So I believe that Whitebeard attack don't count as the end of battle, it's just that Whitebeard is not Akainu's target.

The way I see it, WB wanted to take down Akainu as fast as possible (reasons: Ace and Crews safty), so he let him take his face, but landed two fast hits. Under normal condition the WB vs Akainu fight would have lasted way longer, WB wouldn't have lost his face in a few seconds and Akainu wouldn't have been defeated so early.I don't think someone would let a lava punch on the face... I mean, if the wind was too strong Whitebeard's brain would fall off... :darn

At least, you can say that Akainu has a clear advantage in close-range combat.

Dasbones
July 06, 2010, 01:53 PM
But I said he loose his agility...
Yes. The whole thing about Ace execution was not fair for Whitebeard to begin with.

However, that's why I did not said that Akainu was stronger than Whitebeard, Whitebeard still deserve his title of strongest man.

But he win over Whitebeard, afterall.
But Akainu still had lot of strength to pursue Jinbei. And he hide himself underground. So I believe that Whitebeard attack don't count as the end of battle, it's just that Whitebeard is not Akainu's target.
I don't think someone would let a lava punch on the face... I mean, if the wind was too strong Whitebeard's brain would fall off... :darn

At least, you can say that Akainu has a clear advantage in close-range combat.

The only reason Akainu had an advantage is because Whitebeard was already fairly injured from Squad stabbing him, fighting multiple Vice admirals, and surrering from an illness brought on by old age, he was not as agile as he used to be, and Whitebeard beat the everliving shat out of Akainu every time he struck him, it says more about Akainu's endurance than anything else, but we don't know if Akainu is actually better than Whitebeard, since that fight was entirely situational.

Oh and I think that what was left of Whitebeard's head was severely burned, so nothing could actually 'fall out'.

Schabrak
July 06, 2010, 02:13 PM
I can't see Akainu's magma working like a laser swords. :P

Beating the sh*t out of other characters couldn't have made him to weary, just as old age has nothing to do with a fair fight, he was still the strongest of the world. So it's never a fair fight, if they aren't at their high point, at a certain pefect age, in perfect condition and perfectly relaxed? That was never the case in a fight, someone is always in a better condition tha his oponent that's real life. Can't people understand, that Whitebeard would have won 120%, if he was in perfect shape, that's a fact given by Oda, by saying the he was the #1! He had to be weakened somehow to lose.

bittman
July 06, 2010, 06:22 PM
Beating the sh*t out of other characters couldn't have made him to weary, just as old age has nothing to do with a fair fight, he was still the strongest of the world. So it's never a fair fight, if they aren't at their high point, at a certain pefect age, in perfect condition and perfectly relaxed? That was never the case in a fight, someone is always in a better condition tha his oponent that's real life. Can't people understand, that Whitebeard would have won 120%, if he was in perfect shape, that's a fact given by Oda, by saying the he was the #1! He had to be weakened somehow to lose.

Age is still a part of the character. If age did not matter, I would like to say Luffy is the strongest character in the world because when he is 18 or something he'll be the pirate king.

Whitebeard was 72 and had taken his IV drips out. Sure, he got stabbed once and people seem to think that this was the cause of his "weakness", but WB was dying the moment his IV drips came out. The bit where he spews blood he is clutching, not the wound, but his heart.

Condition is still very much a part of how strong a person is now. Shanks is without an arm, that is part of his condition. Should we hypothesise how strong he might be if he had two arms? Should we rate Garp as unstoppable because 10-20 years ago he was most likely the strongest of the marines?

If Whitebeard was in perfect shape, we would be timeskipping. If we're timeskipping him, let's timeskip everyone to their prime. That's not the point of this arguement, because we cannot see "everyone" in their prime, only what they are now.

What Whitebeard was now was a man with the title of "Strongest man in the world", but a man losing to health issues and well past his prime. If he was in perfect shape, we cannot tell. As it is, in poor shape, he was in my eyes only equal to the admirals (I didn't see any of them struggle until they were hit in the spine with a quake).

But yeah, though it's hard to tell whether Akainu or Whitebeard would have come out victorious in the situations given one's compiled injuries/health and the other's quake to the spine (though he lived that making him the only person not to faint after one shot). A battle between the two, 1v1, would take quite a long time but, unlike Luffy's battles, one decisive shot would decide this battle.

I see them in the same tier really. And by that, I mean really either one could defeat the other. Like if Lucchi and Luffy fought again right now, who knows if Luffy could defeat Lucchi again?

Zojo
July 06, 2010, 06:36 PM
I think age did weaken Whitebeard's body...but not his talent. His reaction time for dodging or his endurances may have dimished from his prime, but he probably still had the same amount of destructive, offensive power as he had in his prime.

Ero-Sanji
July 12, 2010, 11:35 AM
It's sad how Sengoku is quite invisible in this kind of discussions. I wouldn't count him out yet. Out of the legendary he's the youngest and thus he might not face the same walls as WB did. WB was called the strongest but in an actual combat he might have gotten weaker. Too bad we never got to see a fair fight with him however he saw Garp as a man on his level as well as Sengoku.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 19, 2010, 02:48 PM
I think people are a bit mistaken in terminology.:) I think we should divide such things as fisical strength and destructive power. For example Garp can be the strongest man ( normal man of course, without DF and not being some giant) alive fisically. And WhiteBeard was the strongest in destructive power overall with his strength and Devil Fruit, though without DF I think it could be an equal match or even Garp's win.

Ero-Sanji
July 20, 2010, 02:20 AM
The first thing that comes to mind is Garp.

WB was the only man to ever tie with Roger. Garp however nearly killed Roger and vice versa. Now I'm not saying that because of this Garp is stronger than WB.

Now some might think that Garp together with his crew cornered Roger and that that's the way they nearly killed each other. I don't think so, these men fought each other, laughed together, cried together etc. Roger and Garp had a love-hate relationship much like Mihawk and Shanks.

Roger left his only son in the care of Garp no one else not even WB meaning that these people knew each other very well and the only way for them to actually "hang out" is on the battle field. So as for me Garp alone with his own power almost killed Roger and vice versa.

Putting together what we have seen and read Garp, Sengoku and WB are the ones to likely have the title but characters like the Gorousei, Dragon, Shanks and Mihawk might have surpassed them since they are getting old. Though it's highly unlikeable that the latter two are stronger. When Mihawk was going to see how far behind he was from WB he himself admitted he was weaker and the out come of the test further proved it in my eyes.

List from what we have seen(imo):

1. WB
2. Akainu, Mihawk, Sengoku
3. Aokiji, Rayleigh, Kizaru, Current BB
4. Magellan
5. Doflamingo, Kuma(Cyborg form not current android)

Presumable list(imo):

1. WB, Garp, Sengoku, Dragon(/Gorousei)
2. Mihawk, Rayleigh, Shanks(/Gorousei)
3. Kaidou, Akainu, Doflamingo, Beckman, Big mom
4. Current BB, Aokiji, kizaru,
5. Shiryuu, Magellan, Kuma(Cyborg form)