Bleach EP 250 Discussion

[InnerHollow]

Raw (http://leoblogger.com/blog/bleach-250-bleach-250-sub-watch-bleach-episode-250-english-sub-bleach-episode-250-subbed-online-stream-raw/)

thanks for da Sticky

Episode Summary

Hundreds of years ago, there had indeed been an uprising in Soul Society, but Kouga had been on the Gotei 13 side. In addition to this, he had become Kuchiki Ginrei’s son-in-law, but Ginrei had concerns about Kouga not yet having the heart necessary to master his Zanpakutou’s power. Kouga was more than capable of putting down the rebel forces though, and Yamamoto had appointed him the head of a special unit. The problem was that Kouga had also made some powerful enemies, and they framed him for attacking men on his own side. When the punishment included the disempowerment of Muramasa, Ginrei had explained to Kouga that what people were really afraid of was Muramasa going out of control. Kouga, however, felt that Ginrei still didn’t accept him, and after Ginrei left, Muramasa had materialized inside the prison cell. Muramasa had urged Kouga to follow his instincts and had broken him out of prison, though Kouga had emphasized that he was still the master. Now, back in the present, Muramasa approaches Kouga and is surprised to get stabbed in the gut.



Happy Holidays

[exacta]

Ohhhhhh man......I can't wait for this to be subbed. This filler arc really is awesome.

[InnerHollow]

They explained a great deal of stuff in this episode we just need it translated. I enjoyed the flashback. For a filler this is suprisingly great and hopefully more to come!

[KalelDaNinja11]

as much as I want to See ichigo vs ulquiorra this filler is great, well done.

[DARK]

This episode was completely devoted to explaining the history of some filler Shinigami the fans don't give a crap about. Kouga is still important because he is a Kuchiki and Sixth Division officer.
This gives two reasons for Byakuya to allow Muramasa to awaken his "pride" (as both head of the Kuchiki and the Sixth Division Captain), giving him an outlet to kill Kouga.
That said, I wished Ginrei played a larger role than simply being the disciplinarian for Kouga. I was kinda hoping that, since Kubo had some part in this arc's creation, that he would have revealed the man's zanpakuto abilities and/or even show him in actual combat.
Regardless, revealing the history of the two main antagonists in one episode (as opposed to the many for the Bount Arc or even Amagai) gives me a reassuring feeling that this filler is bound to end soon.

[ninjaman]

good fillers but i wanna see that ichigo vs emo fight[ hopefully with some epic background music]

[Arrogance]

So Kouga is an adopted member of the Kuchiki family, did not see that coming, lol. And on top of that he was framed too. That combined with Muramasa's influence on him sending him over the edge he really got into some trouble. Apparently he isn't happy with his zanpaktou and thats why he stabbed him at the end. I guess it was true what Ginrei told him in the cell. He said let this be a lesson for you. Well I guess over being sealed for 100 years Kouga really learned a lesson and that he needed to tame Muramasa. Well its 100 years later but I guess its better late than never.

[Galbert-Kun]

This was a good episode. I laughed at the omake at the end. I hope Kouga goes bankai.

[elcongo]

Guys is Sub, aready here is the link,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frpbb64spD0&feature=channel
hope, it help you, and Enjoy it,

[CBlitz]

I have a feeling that Kouga will turn out to be a good guy...

[Tsukisama]

I enjoyed the episode, but I don't see how some say that Kubo has been greatly involved in the plot of this arc when this episode does not mesh well with the canonical plot.

The flashback in this episode takes places several hundred years ago when Ginrei is still a captain. How can Ginrei be a captain back then when Shunsui said that the only captains from 100 years prior to the start of the vizard gaiden (i.e., only captains from roughly 210 years prior to the present time in the manga) were Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake, and himself?

For that matter, how could Shunsui and Ukitake (Unohana too, as she did not recognize Muramasa either) not know about all of this? Those two were in the first-graduating class of the shinigami academy, which was started 2000 years ago; although it is certainly possible, I find it hard to imagine that they were not captains or at least in Soul Society, because you wouldn't have needed to have been a captain to recognize events as public in Gotei 13 as this rebellion and Kouga's involvement, just "several hundred years ago" as the time elapse statement at the beginning of the flashback would lead one to believe.

If anything, this episode solidifies my opinion that Kubo was not as heavily involved as some claim. (I know there was a magazine article stating that he was involved in this arc, but I haven't seen anywhere from a specific source stating how involved or in what ways he was involved; they could have just asked his opinion on certain things like whether there will ever be something in the manga on Ginrei, Gonryoumaru, or a zanpakutou that can manipulate other zanpakutou that would conflict with what they planned for this filler arc.)

I am glad that it was made clear in this episode that the zanpakutou manifestations are a product of Muramasa and not the actual spirits of the zanpakutou. Up until now this has sort of been unclear: manifestations have seemed like the zanpakutou spirits, but the owners never were able to recognize them. In this episode, we see a seemingly rudimentary version of the power Muramasa used on the zanpakutou of the "present" (in quotation marks due to this being an alternate universe than the canon plot). I am guessing that Muramasa's power developed over the time that it was on its own or that it was because Kouga, who had not yet mastered his zanpakutou at the time, was wielding the sword.

I still enjoy the filler for the story, as it is an interesting story, and character design, but my hope that this filler contains any secret canon material relevant outside of this filler diminishes further with episode, especially this one.

On a bit of a side note, was it just me, or did Kouga (back when he was youthful and fresh-looking) kind of make anyone else think of a male Rangiku? The way his chest seemed to be almost spilling out of his shihakushou coupled with the red scarf thing around him seemed strangely reminiscent of Rangiku. :blink I am not saying that Kouga is what Rangiku would look like as a boy but rather that his character design is the closest to what a male character design of a character like Rangiku (attractive yet mature, chest seemingly bursting out of the uniform, showy scarf/shawl thing) would be.

Also, I think the Kuchiki lady who was at the manor will probably end up being Byakuya's mother and Kouga was her intended (but not Byakuya's father who probably married her afterwards); thus Byakuya may be protecting his mother's honor (in addition to the rest of the Kuchiki clan's) by wanting to defeat Kouga. (The information that Ginrei is Byakuya's maternal grandfather instead of paternal grandfather might have been something the animators got from Kubo, but again I don't think Kubo had a lot of involvement in this filler.)

[espadaboyzz]

I enjoyed the episode, but I don't see how some say that Kubo has been greatly involved in the plot of this arc when this episode does not mesh well with the canonical plot.

The flashback in this episode takes places several hundred years ago when Ginrei is still a captain. How can Ginrei be a captain back then when Shunsui said that the only captains from 100 years prior to the start of the vizard gaiden (i.e., only captains from roughly 210 years prior to the present time in the manga) were Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake, and himself?

For that matter, how could Shunsui and Ukitake (Unohana too, as she did not recognize Muramasa either) not know about all of this? Those two were in the first-graduating class of the shinigami academy, which was started 2000 years ago; although it is certainly possible, I find it hard to imagine that they were not captains or at least in Soul Society, because you wouldn't have needed to have been a captain to recognize events as public in Gotei 13 as this rebellion and Kouga's involvement, just "several hundred years ago" as the time elapse statement at the beginning of the flashback would lead one to believe.

If anything, this episode solidifies my opinion that Kubo was not as heavily involved as some claim. (I know there was a magazine article stating that he was involved in this arc, but I haven't seen anywhere from a specific source stating how involved or in what ways he was involved; they could have just asked his opinion on certain things like whether there will ever be something in the manga on Ginrei, Gonryoumaru, or a zanpakutou that can manipulate other zanpakutou that would conflict with what they planned for this filler arc.)



Well, IMO i think that flashback is before shinigami academy have started. Maybe back then there only have department to protect sereitei like "police officer" department. And then yamaji created the shinigami academy to have smooth management like present soul society.:D

[gfire2]

geass sword ftw lol

overall good episode, but i reckon they made a mistake when they showed the faces of the old captains.

but they better not screw up the ending

edit: after dropping by the BIG SPOILER thread, f*k this filler!! i want to see ichi vs ulq fight

[kalik2k]

geass sword ftw lol

overall good episode, but i reckon they made a mistake when they showed the faces of the old captains.

but they better not screw up the ending

edit: after dropping by the BIG SPOILER thread, f*k this filler!! i want to see ichi vs ulq fight

What "old captains"? The only captains we saw were Ginrei and Yamamoto, the others in the white coats were just elite soul reapers fighting for the rebels...

[Tsukisama]

Well, IMO i think that flashback is before shinigami academy have started. Maybe back then there only have department to protect sereitei like "police officer" department. And then yamaji created the shinigami academy to have smooth management like present soul society.:D

It is possible that the flashback was to a time over 2000 years ago (even though the text said a "few hundred years" and a more probable way to denote something that occurred over 2000 years ago would have been to use the kanji character for "thousand" instead of for "hundred").

The problem with this again that Ginrei is shown as a captain when it has already been stated that he was not a captain over 210 years before the present time in the manga. So, he shouldn't have been a captain back then.

[Flamebolt]

The first ones to be promoted to captains were Kyroaku, ukitake and Unohana?

Who do you think framed kouga? Somebody must have slashed them, I'm makeing a wild guess and saying it was muramasa.

[Galbert-Kun]

The first ones to be promoted to captains were Kyroaku, ukitake and Unohana?

Who do you think framed kouga? Somebody must have slashed them, I'm makeing a wild guess and saying it was muramasa.

The three captains framed Kouga (the one with the glasses, the short bald and fat one, and idr the last one). They walked away when Kouga and his group saw them and they met in some room later in the episode to devise a plan to frame him because they felt that Kouga was becoming too powerful.

[kalik2k]

Where did it say that the 3 soul reapers in white coats were captains? Just because they have white on doesn't make them captains.

[Galbert-Kun]

Where did it say that the 3 soul reapers in white coats were captains? Just because they have white on doesn't make them captains.

When Yama-ji summoned Kouga, the captains were lined up beside yama-ji, all of them facing Kouga. Those three were there.

[Gran Maestro]

The problem with this again that Ginrei is shown as a captain when it has already been stated that he was not a captain over 210 years before the present time in the manga. So, he shouldn't have been a captain back then.

We had a theory (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1682275#post1682275) about Ginrei's past. :)

[kalik2k]

When Yama-ji summoned Kouga, the captains were lined up beside yama-ji, all of them facing Kouga. Those three were there.

So why weren't they wearing a captains haori with all the black marks at the bottom like every other captain in Bleach? All they had was a plain white coat, no markings or anything. Even Chojiro and some squad 12 members wear white clothing...

You're just assuming things to support your own theories.

[Travis]

It is possible that the flashback was to a time over 2000 years ago (even though the text said a "few hundred years" and a more probable way to denote something that occurred over 2000 years ago would have been to use the kanji character for "thousand" instead of for "hundred").

The problem with this again that Ginrei is shown as a captain when it has already been stated that he was not a captain over 210 years before the present time in the manga. So, he shouldn't have been a captain back then.
This bothered me when it was first written in the pendulum arc. Ginrei is so old, why would he rise to captain in old age? Even if he aged faster than Shunsui and Ukitake for whatever reason, wouldn't he still have been captain when Shunsui and Ukitake were a hundred years before the pendulum arc.

I think Kubo just made a writing error to be honest. Because I think Shunsui says that in a chapter or two before we even see Ginrei. Either that or it was translated wrong which is doubtful. Kubo's writing = bad writing. Although, he can probably say someone else was captain and died of old age and he came out of retirement to fill the seat until Byakuya was of age or make up a variety of reasons for this if he wants.

[Exodi]

Those three guys were definitely not captains.
My reasons:

1. They don't have the captains' haori
2. They all wear the same thing.
3. They are referred to as "elites", and not "captains".
4. They are all fail. :D

[Tsukisama]

We had a theory (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1682275#post1682275) about Ginrei's past. :)

Your theory doesn't really explain away Shunsui's statement though. If Ginrei was a former captain before 100 years before the gaiden and then came out of retirement for whatever reason within 100 years before the start of the gaiden, then Ginrei still would be a captain from before 100 years ago.

The statement was in response to his conversation with Love and Shinji about how unstable Gotei 13 had been at the time due to the large influx of new captains. If Ginrei wasn't such a new captain, that probably would have been indicated in some way.


This bothered me when it was first written in the pendulum arc. Ginrei is so old, why would he rise to captain in old age? Even if he aged faster than Shunsui and Ukitake for whatever reason, wouldn't he still have been captain when Shunsui and Ukitake were a hundred years before the pendulum arc.

I think Kubo just made a writing error to be honest. Because I think Shunsui says that in a chapter or two before we even see Ginrei. Either that or it was translated wrong which is doubtful. Kubo's writing = bad writing. Although, he can probably say someone else was captain and died of old age and he came out of retirement to fill the seat until Byakuya was of age or make up a variety of reasons for this if he wants.

I honestly don't think it was a writing error. Of the story arcs of Bleach, that mini arc about the vizards' (and Urahara-tachi's) pasts was among the most well-written in Bleach. This is most likely because he has been planning for so long. So, even though Shunsui makes the statement one chapter and Ginrei shows up in the next, I don't think Kubo would be so careless with his statements.

If by "writing error" you meant that it was a typographical error, then I also don't think that is the case. Usually, typos are caught and fixed in the volume release, but I don't recall anyone pointing out a change in that passage from the chapter release to the volume release.

When I first saw the manga chapter, I thought that it might have been an error in the interpretation by us. The translation that I first read was by Binktopia, which translated Shunsui's statement like this (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.01/13/), using the phrase "the old man" instead of explictly stating Yamamoto. I had mentioned in the corresponding chapter discussion thread that it is possible that, if the text had the characters for "old man" without further specification, it would be possible that it was supposed to be interpreted as plural instead of singular (for "old men") or that it was supposed to refer to Ginrei with the idea that Shunsui was only referring to captains (taichou) and not the captain-commander (sotaichou). My idea was rejected when someone told me about another translation that specifically named Yamamoto, stating that Binktopia had taken liberties with the translation. (I still haven't actually checked the raw for this chapter to confirm, but I have just been going along with it.)

Anyway, anything is possible, but Kubo pulling off some odd explanation rather than simply having Shunsui mention him seems a bit strange to me. (One possible explanation that wouldn't defy Shunsui's statement would be if Ginrei was just a powerful noble who had served in Gotei 13 in the past but never before made captain, having retired from Gotei 13 at some point since no captain positions were available at the time and then came out of retirement due to a captain shortage out of feeling of obligation and pride as head of one of the four noble clans. As you could see, that was quite an intricate explanation to circumvent that one little statement of Shunsui's, and it would just strike me dumbfounded if Kubo would really feel the need to at some point make such a long-winded explanation when it could have been so easily avoided by adding Ginrei into Shunsui's statement.)

[Travis]

As you could see, that was quite an intricate explanation to circumvent that one little statement of Shunsui's, and it would just strike me dumbfounded if Kubo would really feel the need to at some point make such a long-winded explanation when it could have been so easily avoided by adding Ginrei into Shunsui's statement.)

And this is the main reason I think it was a writing error, and I do mean he made a mistake not planning properly.

There isn't really a good reason to just not include Ginrei's name in that statement if you planned far enough ahead. Not including it would require some explanation and getting around to that explanation and require a much larger plan. And it's doubtful we'll ever get one in the story.

[Tsukisama]

And this is the main reason I think it was a writing error, and I do mean he made a mistake not planning properly.

There isn't really a good reason to just not include Ginrei's name in that statement if you planned far enough ahead. Not including it would require some explanation and getting around to that explanation and require a much larger plan. And it's doubtful we'll ever get one in the story.

Then, the question would be why would he not fix this in the volume release? That is where authors usually make the corrections to such thoughtless errors when they are releasing the chapters in the serial magazine. I am quite certain that he (and his editors) must have looked over his work for the volume release.

If we are noticing something like this, then someone else should likely have noticed as well, but it remained unchanged.

[Gran Maestro]

Your theory doesn't really explain away Shunsui's statement though. If Ginrei was a former captain before 100 years before the gaiden and then came out of retirement for whatever reason within 100 years before the start of the gaiden, then Ginrei still would be a captain from before 100 years ago.

The statement was in response to his conversation with Love and Shinji about how unstable Gotei 13 had been at the time due to the large influx of new captains. If Ginrei wasn't such a new captain, that probably would have been indicated in some way.

I think you're interpreting Shunsui's statement in a different way, Shunsui said (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-108/15) "The only captains still around from 100 years ago are me, Ukitake and Yama-ji." What I understand from this statement is that Ginrei joined/rejoined Gotei 13 in the past 100 years, and this may be correct. IMO it would be perfectly normal for Shunsui to ignore Ginrei who had not been around for a very long time. I agree that it should have been indicated in some way but the absence of such a statement doesn't render the possible history of Ginrei in Gotei 13 invalid.

[kalik2k]

Maybe Ginrei was on maternity leave when Byakuya's mum was born and came back when she was like 200 lol

[Travis]

I think you're interpreting Shunsui's statement in a different way, Shunsui said (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-108/15) "The only captains still around from 100 years ago are me, Ukitake and Yama-ji." What I understand from this statement is that Ginrei joined/rejoined Gotei 13 in the past 100 years, and this may be correct. IMO it would be perfectly normal for Shunsui to ignore Ginrei who had not been around for a very long time. I agree that it should have been indicated in some way but the absence of such a statement doesn't render the possible history of Ginrei in Gotei 13 invalid.

I wasn't aware that writers fixed errors in manga volumes. I still think it's possible they missed the mistake, but maybe not as likely. But it would make sense that Ginrei was a captain at some point 100 years before the pendulum arc. It just doesn't make sense for someone to become a captain when they are so old. And in shinigami years, that has to be really old.

So perhaps he left and came back for some reason. Maybe whoever replaced him died for some reason and he filled in for them or maybe there's another reason for it.

[Zatono]

You know what'd be kind of crazy? Kouga stabbing Muramasa, because he thought about him having to control his sword better, and to do that he had to make Muramasa submit to him, but by doing that, he gets to achieve bankai as well, thus making him a villain with Muramasa's powers as a shikai, and now we might even have a bankai to deal with.

[Trotter]

I thought summoning Muramasa who summons your spirits was his Bankai?

[DARK]

I thought summoning Muramasa who summons your spirits was his Bankai?

No, it is a separate ability in the Shikai form that allowed Kouga to materialize Muramasa (strengthening the zanpakuto spirit controlling abilities).
As of now, we are not sure if Kouga could use Bankai. Since he was only a seated officer (4th or below, people expected that he would make it to 3rd seat at the time) and was rather reckless in using his abilities, we would have seen Kouga's Bankai if he had it.
There is evidence that suggests this. Materializing the zanpakuto spirit is a requirement for a Shinigami to learn Bankai (which has been done via Yukojochu Muramasa). In addition, Ginrei (a Captain-ranked Shinigami) mentioned that Kouga's spirit pressure had the potential to be greater than his own. Since a large amount of reiatsu was needed for Bankai, it is possible that Kouga could have learned it if he wanted to.

[Tsukisama]

I think you're interpreting Shunsui's statement in a different way, Shunsui said (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-108/15) "The only captains still around from 100 years ago are me, Ukitake and Yama-ji." What I understand from this statement is that Ginrei joined/rejoined Gotei 13 in the past 100 years, and this may be correct. IMO it would be perfectly normal for Shunsui to ignore Ginrei who had not been around for a very long time. I agree that it should have been indicated in some way but the absence of such a statement doesn't render the possible history of Ginrei in Gotei 13 invalid.

I could be misinterpreting the statement, although my interpretation is also not necessarily incorrect based upon the text. It seems improbable to me given the way the statement was made, but it is certainly not impossible that Ginrei was a captain who rejoined for some reason. I still have a problem with this coming up in the anime before the manga.

In advertising every filler arc thus far, Kubo's name is dropped as having been consulted in some way, but previous filler arcs have included information that has turned out false (particularly the Bount arc, as the Amagai arc did not really include a lot of stuff about the established characters that was not already revealed in the manga).

If it turns out that Ginrei did leave his position as 6th division captain and then reclaim it later, that could be explained, but until it shows up in the manga or some other canon source (e.g., databook or personal interview with Kubo), it seems really off to me.

[Quantam503]

Call me crazy, but isn't that Ginrei next to Unohana?

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/8
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/9

[espadaboyzz]

Call me crazy, but isn't that Ginrei next to Unohana?

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/8
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/9

Yes, that's true. But why is it? :blink

[kalik2k]

And look! look! There's Hanataro's dad behind him!

[espadaboyzz]

So, this filler will end soon....only 5 episode to go. I hope Kouga will alive and go to soul society....

[Arrogance]

So, this filler will end soon....only 5 episode to go. I hope Kouga will alive and go to soul society....
Well I don't see how thats possible....its filler, he's not supposed to exist, lol. Where will he go, he was a member of Kuchiki, its not like he can bury himself somewhere where we can't see him if he was to come back. He's most likely going to die, IMO.

[espadaboyzz]

Well I don't see how thats possible....its filler, he's not supposed to exist, lol. Where will he go, he was a member of Kuchiki, its not like he can bury himself somewhere where we can't see him if he was to come back. He's most likely going to die, IMO.

Well, in that case..too bad for him. By the way he's not the bad shinigami i guess......:D

[Arrogance]

Well, in that case..too bad for him. By the way he's not the bad shinigami i guess......:D
From what we have seen so far, it seems like there was a lot of misunderstanding and circumstances which put him in his position. Muramasa seems to be the only "true" bad guy as of now. Unless Kouga and Muramasa end up joining forces, Kouga still is innocent. But he did stab Muramasa and did tell him in the flashback that he would not be ruled by him so right now I don't see them getting together, unless they talk things out and settle their issues :p.

[CBlitz]

hey they kept those characters from the Bounto arc in the show, its possible for Kouga to show up once in a while between arcs

[Arrogance]

Well the only time we ever see filler characters again are in other filler episodes. Like the Amagi arc we saw those characters in a a filler episodes later on about soccer :notrust.....I hate that one so much.....The only time I recall a major filler character being cut and pasted into a canon part was when they added Kariya into Ichigo's internal struggle. Other than that they mostly just disappear never to be seen again.

[Galbert-Kun]

@ Exodi and kalik2k:

http://www.animeseason.com/bleach-episode-250/

- pause at 5:06, the guy with the glasses and the short, bald fat guy are lined up next to yama-ji. Ginrei is there also, which makes them captains.

[kalik2k]

@ Exodi and kalik2k:

http://www.animeseason.com/bleach-episode-250/

- pause at 5:06, the guy with the glasses and the short, bald fat guy are lined up next to yama-ji. Ginrei is there also, which makes them captains.

Just because they're there doesn't make them captains... If that's not enough for you check the differences between their haori's and Ginrei's. Notice the black markings at the bottom of Ginrei and every other captain's haori? Where are the markings on the other three?

Chojiro, the 1st division lieutenant wears a white garment and he often stands next to Yamamoto, that doesn't make him a captain does it...

I suggest you watch episode 250 again and pay attention to the part from 11:10, maybe then you'll see they aren't captains.

[Black God]

SPOILER ALEEERT
MURUMASA MASTER (forgot his name) IS BYAKUYA'S PAPPY:(

[kalik2k]

SPOILER ALEEERT
MURUMASA MASTER (forgot his name) IS BYAKUYA'S PAPPY:(

AND THE WOMAN AT KUCHIKI MANOR IS BYAKUYA'S MUMMY AND GINREI'S DAUGHTER!! WHICH MADE KOUGA GINREI'S SON IN LAW!!

[Quantam503]

SPOILER ALEEERT
MURUMASA MASTER (forgot his name) IS BYAKUYA'S PAPPY:(

Unpossible. That would mean Byakuya is only 50% Kuchiki.
[hr]
Nevermind, sense that does not make. That said, pretty sure Byakuya gets his Kuchiki genes from his father's side, not his mother's.

Either way, both his parents are long dead, so yeah

[Zatono]

Unpossible. That would mean Byakuya is only 50% Kuchiki.

Actually, wouldn't it mean that he's 0% Kuchiki? If Kouga is supposed to be Ginrei's stepson, then I doubt he'd be marrying his family and having a kid, or else we'd have some incestuous relationships going on with the Kuchiki's.

[Quantam503]

Actually, wouldn't it mean that he's 0% Kuchiki? If Kouga is supposed to be Ginrei's stepson, then I doubt he'd be marrying his family and having a kid, or else we'd have some incestuous relationships going on with the Kuchiki's.

Well he would've married Ginrei's daughter in order be said step-son.

Have a feeling the whole clan's incestous though, what with the no marrying out-siders rule that Byakuya broke with Hisana.

[kalik2k]

Actually Kouga is a 'son-in-law' not a stepson, meaning he married into the family and that also makes Byakuya 50% Kuchiki.

Oh and btw, if he married his own family that'd be called incest and as we all know the Kuchiki clan loves to obey the law!

[Gran Maestro]

SPOILER ALEEERT
MURUMASA MASTER (forgot his name) IS BYAKUYA'S PAPPY:(

Byakuya didn't look like several hundred years old in TBTP arc.

[Trotter]

Im assuming there is Incest in the family. Japanese clans did that to preserve their "pure blood".

[Revolation]

Call me crazy, but isn't that Ginrei next to Unohana?

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/8
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/9

yeah isn't ginrei right there. whats everyone saying he wasn't a captain and whatnot.

the captains not there are the 10th division and 11th division captains.
i'm guessing the 10th division captain not present was isshin seeing as hitsu seems like a newer captain just because he's young:darn

did you see those pages already tsukisama?

[Tsukisama]

Call me crazy, but isn't that Ginrei next to Unohana?

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/8
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-107/9

yeah isn't ginrei right there. whats everyone saying he wasn't a captain and whatnot.

the captains not there are the 10th division and 11th division captains.
i'm guessing the 10th division captain not present was isshin seeing as hitsu seems like a newer captain just because he's young:darn

did you see those pages already tsukisama?

I think the two of you have misinterpreted what our discussion was. We all knew that Ginrei was a captain during the gaiden. We were discussing whether he was a captain 100 years before the gaiden, which has relevance to the flashback in this episode.