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jiminy
December 25, 2009, 02:26 PM
Marco was shown flying around as more of a protector, not sure why he wasn't using his ability to the fullest (whatever those abilities may be). On one of the pages, marco's feet were on fire, Im thinking he is about to regenerate, but the VA got to him first with a cuff, screwing Marco over.

What Aokiji said is right, the "Whitebeard pirates are done for" (not exactly the lines). WB, Marco, Jozu, Ace are in deep stuff. WB is for sure a goner, Marco still has a chance, Jozu if thawed will be armless, Ace is still at the chopping block. All of them will either end their lives when this war is over, or the whitebeard pirates will be no more anyways. Their leader is gone, they will disband or take upon them a new name

urlaub
December 25, 2009, 02:39 PM
It seems as Jozu's whole body is frozen(from the inside). But that is nothing to him. He is the beast. With one arm he could kill the lot of them.

mr.danly
December 25, 2009, 03:39 PM
It seems as Jozu's whole body is frozen(from the inside). But that is nothing to him. He is the beast. With one arm he could kill the lot of them.

........... yeah, okay. I'm sure he'll do great while he's frozen.

plex
December 25, 2009, 03:53 PM
Shanks lost an arm as well and is most likely one of the strongest fighters in One Piece. Of course we can't compare a Yonkou like Shanks with Jozu, however we shouldn't write him off yet. Even if it's unlikely that he's a logia type, we can't exclude it right now.
(of course someone has to thaw the ice lol)

Winlyx-chan
December 25, 2009, 04:52 PM
I'm sorry but I just can't see Rayleigh showing up. After all he made mention to the strawhats that he wished to remain in hiding. So why would he ruin it for one pirate. even being Rogers son I still don't think he'll show up. However as for other strawhats showing up I can see that being possible. Especially if this fight lasts for a few more months. Not to mention if Hancock truely is to join the crew like so many suspect then the rest of the crew need to show up (or at least half).

After all I can't see the rest of the crew wanting to accept a shichibukai to their crew without good reason (after Moria, Crocodile, and Kuma I can't see the crew being nice to a shichibukai let alone welcoming her to the crew).

GJMEGA
December 25, 2009, 05:03 PM
After all I can't see the rest of the crew wanting to accept a shichibukai to their crew without good reason (after Moria, Crocodile, and Kuma I can't see the crew being nice to a shichibukai let alone welcoming her to the crew).

Well, they wouldn't have to /welcome/ her so much as simply accept that Luffy has made his decision, like when Robin joined. Remember, while Luffy is extremely easy going and willing to let them voice and often times physically express their opinions he is still the captain.

Having said that I really don't think Hancock is going to join the crew.

caleshious
December 25, 2009, 05:13 PM
If she continues to interrupt the WG in the middle of a war i'd hazard a guess that she'll lose her shichibukai status anyway (albeit, it is already blatantly clear she couldn't care less if she loses it)

Man, how funny would it be if she did join the crew, and the humour that followed not only on board the ship, but also when Alvida shows up again and sees Boa, and proceeds to completely lose her sh1t.

frontaLobotomy
December 25, 2009, 05:25 PM
Is it confirmed that Jozu is a Paramecia? Even if it were, I'm sure if he had mastery of a Carbon structure of that sort, he'd be able to re-attatch his arm somehow. I know it sounds odd, but Carbon is Carbon, that's my reasoning for it. He and Marco aren't looking too good right now, which indicates that it's going to be about Luffy stepping up. All I'm hoping for is that Jinbei and Iva back him up, as they're the strongest people beside Whitebeard that we've been exposed to in this ark on the Pirate side.

xstationcubed
December 25, 2009, 06:02 PM
bam, I called it. so I wonder how WB's crew and the WG will react to Luffy's newly shown power? I wonder if he even realizes what he just did...

_AceOfSpades_
December 25, 2009, 06:19 PM
Hahah Luffy released some haki - this is getting really interesting, folks. But it was kinda expected, in cool way of course ^ ^ Also loved the " You know Hancock?" part. But the theory about the marines casting off the Shichibukai and the Pacifista destroying everything in the way was wrong after all, seems like the Shichibukai are really treated as allies, huh? I just loooooooooooove this chapter. The haki part is totally fan service (for me at least, I really wanted to see Luffy releasing his haki in front of all those big shots) and expected but I think it's awesome > <

ah, something to add: even though Sengoku striked a cool pose a while ago, he still isn't joining the battle? I'm just curious about that guy's power, since he is supposed to be ueeeber strong ( considering his fleet admiral rank) lol not everyone can be as enthusiastic about fighting as Garp, I guess -_-

ocajavati
December 25, 2009, 06:23 PM
........... yeah, okay. I'm sure he'll do great while he's frozen.

WB lol'd and shrugged off the frostbite.

Maybe Jozu can do the same.

Somewhat a bit of an anticlimactic end to two of the strongest characters in One Piece so far. :darn

Diablos
December 25, 2009, 06:25 PM
I'm sorry but I just can't see Rayleigh showing up. After all he made mention to the strawhats that he wished to remain in hiding. So why would he ruin it for one pirate. even being Rogers son I still don't think he'll show up. However as for other strawhats showing up I can see that being possible. Especially if this fight lasts for a few more months. Not to mention if Hancock truely is to join the crew like so many suspect then the rest of the crew need to show up (or at least half).

After all I can't see the rest of the crew wanting to accept a shichibukai to their crew without good reason (after Moria, Crocodile, and Kuma I can't see the crew being nice to a shichibukai let alone welcoming her to the crew).

What do you think that Rayleigh helped Luffy n is Gang for? Because of what Shanks told him and what he heard from Luffy when he finally talked to him, that boy has Roger spirit, main reason being he resembles Roger. So why would not Rayleigh wanna rescue the life of the son of his best friend. Also, he even not wanting he is already known by Kizaru, to be living in shabondy. There's no chance they'll let him live that easily after that.

I also see Boa joining Straws, I mean either that or they must have some deep connection, together after this, which we see her alot I hope, I totally love her expressions, also she is being buried alive each time more by helping Luffy she will have to be on the run after the war... Possibly with Luffy ;P ^^

blackking187
December 25, 2009, 06:55 PM
What do you think that Rayleigh helped Luffy n is Gang for? Because of what Shanks told him and what he heard from Luffy when he finally talked to him, that boy has Roger spirit, main reason being he resembles Roger. So why would not Rayleigh wanna rescue the life of the son of his best friend. Also, he even not wanting he is already known by Kizaru, to be living in shabondy. There's no chance they'll let him live that easily after that.

I also see Boa joining Straws, I mean either that or they must have some deep connection, together after this, which we see her alot I hope, I totally love her expressions, also she is being buried alive each time more by helping Luffy she will have to be on the run after the war... Possibly with Luffy ;P ^^

About Boa joining the sh crew.
For me there is 1 reason why she can join the sh's that is her love for luffy that she will die if she isn't with him.

If Boa looses her title of shichibukai i hope she will go back to her island and prepare them for the new era (without WB and probably the BB era)
If she looses her title and then joining the sh's will be disappointing,because she chooses luffy before her island.

Don't see the sh's, raiyl. or the supernova's entering the war.
How long is this war going 5 hours top, from sharbondy island to marine ford should be longer than that.

Don't know what will happen in this war but i see luffy being brought to sharbondy island probably by boa, jimbei or ace, going with his crew,jimbei and raiyl. to fisherman's island luffy will be trained by raiyl. to control his haki. The crew showing their power up, introducing a new nakama.

Sorry for my english just wanna say one piece rocks also loving the fact that the anime isn't so far.
Naruto is tripping to much shit is happening and after the last chapter i was wondering they can better call it sasuke because we have seen so many battles of him. And 2,3 of naruto

Bleach hope the end is near because it is not getting better.

For all my one piece junkies (like me :)
Merry X-mas and a happy new year

Shiro-kun
December 25, 2009, 06:56 PM
Joz looks like he's not just frozen

his arms look like they been broken to three different pieces.

blackking187
December 25, 2009, 07:01 PM
I forgot why aren't we seeing some crewmates of ace in action from his spade crew?
Is his crew so weak? Don't they have the motivation as luffy?

MokiSenpai
December 25, 2009, 07:05 PM
Hey guys!

I have a question. Which picture were showed, that Jozu lost an arm?

It was an epic chapter, but i would loved to see more reaction shots about Luffy's haki, but hey... maybe in the next chapter. Ah, can't wait. Stupid holidays :D

_AceOfSpades_
December 25, 2009, 07:06 PM
I forgot why aren't we seeing some crewmates of ace in action from his spade crew?
Is his crew so weak? Don't they have the motivation as luffy?

true enough O o they must be among the WB pirates, somewhere...they joined the WB pirates together with him I presume?
Too bad they didn't get a proper introduction or something...

Jozu ... this one I presume O o
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/569-17/8

MokiSenpai
December 25, 2009, 07:12 PM
true enough O o they must be among the WB pirates, somewhere...they joined the WB pirates together with him I presume?
Too bad they didn't get a proper introduction or something...

Jozu ... this one I presume O o
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/569-17/8

Hm, still can't see it. Maybe because the vapor covers the broken parts? Or the vapor itself means that Jozu's arm broke off?

Arkadi
December 25, 2009, 07:18 PM
Diamond could be a logia... a rare type like a solid one...
if u think about it... Paper,Candy(cyrup),Smoke are logias 2...
i guess there are diffrent types, and the strongest are elemental, like thunder-fire-shadow-light-ice

i think so because, he turns his body in diamonds its not like luffy turns his body into rubber... because he is rubber... but then again if thats true how come mr1 isn't a logia, i think its best if we w8.

(sorry for my English)

Bugzee
December 25, 2009, 07:27 PM
What a chapter to end the year!!! :nuts

Thank you so much Oda! :wtf

Marco is so screwed with those seastone handcuffs on him! WB will fall very soon now :crying.. which will lead to a very emotional ending to this arc imo. WOW! I didn't expect Joz to be completely frozen by Aokiji, I expected Joz to comeback! Damn!

MokiSenpai
December 25, 2009, 07:27 PM
If Jozu has a logia type power, then he doesn't have to worry about being frozen, because if he shatters, he can reassemble himself after that. But we didn't see any indications, that he ever "created" diamond except hardening his skin. I guess if he could generate diamond, then he could been able to covered up the entire Moby Dick, when the Akainu Fbombs started to fall. Or create a diamon weapon of some sort and cut up Aokiji's iceicles :D

Btw guys, if somebody already has my avatar, please tell me, and i will remove it. I found this cool pic at a random site, but still... i don't wanna take somebody elses work.

jokey
December 25, 2009, 07:33 PM
ahahaha... i couldn't help but laugh and think about this forum when i saw the last page... everyones been talking about haki so much... there you go... it finally came out... luffy finally released his haki... hope everyone is happy... ahahaha...

cant believe marco, jozu and whitebeard are losing... that was kinda easy dont you think.. the admirals must be really powerful... i thought the commanders were on par with the admirals in terms of power... guess i was wrong... dammit...

Razh
December 25, 2009, 07:40 PM
Too bad about Joz. And we didn't even get to see the extent of his powers. Maybe we'll be surprised. There is a tiny chance that Joz is a logia and that he can turn into diamond dust or something.

I give more chance to Marco who just needs to survive until someone gets that cuffs of him. He was pierced with two lasers. It could have been worse.

I always hated that Onigumo guy.
[hr]


cant believe marco, jozu and whitebeard are losing... that was kinda easy dont you think.. the admirals must be really powerful... i thought the commanders were on par with the admirals in terms of power... guess i was wrong... dammit...

Why do you think you were wrong? Both Joz and Marco fought really well against them. Aokiji managed to freeze Joz while he was distracted and Marco was shot in the back while running to help Whitebeard. As for Whitebeard, not much to say really. He is old, has some disease and a hole in his chest, then starts coughing up blood which allows Akainu to punch him.

Bugzee
December 25, 2009, 07:41 PM
Those logia admirals are pretty damn tough to beat! :XD

I didn't think Marco would so stupidly be trapped and restrained by the marines! :darn I expected more from Marco in such a situation :(. Luffy stopping the excuetion with haki was awesome! :XD hahaha Ace's facial expression LOL and Iva complimenting Luffy 'now that was something!' hahaha :XD

:eek No OP next week!!! :scry

TwEeD
December 25, 2009, 08:00 PM
Not to mention if Hancock truely is to join the crew like so many suspect then the rest of the crew need to show up (or at least half).

Hancock has a kingdom to protect/govern, so unless she has a succesor she won't be joining the crew. She'll wait in the Amazon kingdom for Luffy to return to/for her as Pirate King


After all I can't see the rest of the crew wanting to accept a shichibukai to their crew without good reason (after Moria, Crocodile, and Kuma I can't see the crew being nice to a shichibukai let alone welcoming her to the crew).

Well it's not like it went that difficult with Robyn joining...

jokey
December 25, 2009, 08:07 PM
Why do you think you were wrong? Both Joz and Marco fought really well against them. Aokiji managed to freeze Joz while he was distracted and Marco was shot in the back while running to help Whitebeard. As for Whitebeard, not much to say really. He is old, has some disease and a hole in his chest, then starts coughing up blood which allows Akainu to punch him.[/QUOT

but still they didn't even harm the admirals... not even whitebeard... regardless of old age and sickness... he is still the worlds strongest... he couldve at least put a scratch or some bruises on akainu... now it seems like the admirals are really really powerful... and i think this chapter indicates that somehow the whitebeard pirates are gonna have a lot of major casualties...

mr.danly
December 25, 2009, 08:07 PM
Hancock has a kingdom to protect/govern, so unless she has a succesor she won't be joining the crew. She'll wait in the Amazon kingdom for Luffy to return to/for her as Pirate King



Well it's not like it went that difficult with Robyn joining...

I agree, Hancock has her kingdom, just as Vivi did, and Vivi was actually with the crew for a substantial amount of time. And although Hancock may seem to show disregard at times for her people, she actually does care, as evidenced by the fact that eventually, she does comply with the recommendation of grandma nyon and goes to fight with the marines.

And I also agree that Hancock being a shikibukai has little to do with whether or not the crew would agree to let her join. It's not as if they actually fought against her or something. Robin was legit, an ENEMY who attacked them several times and was the right hand woman of Crocodile, someone who nearly killed luffy 3 times. What grudge would they have against a woman like Hancock, who has only helped out Luffy?

Razh
December 25, 2009, 08:12 PM
but still they didn't even harm the admirals... not even whitebeard... regardless of old age and sickness... he is still the worlds strongest... he couldve at least put a scratch or some bruises on akainu... now it seems like the admirals are really really powerful... and i think this chapter indicates that somehow the whitebeard pirates are gonna have a lot of major casualties...

That's because fights themselves didn't last that long. Marco kicked Kizaru and Aokiji, Joz tackled Aokiji and drew blood. None of them were hurt until they got worried about Whitebeard and naturally, admirals took advantage of the situation. I think Marco and Joz would pawn the admirals if the situation was reversed.

Winlyx-chan
December 25, 2009, 08:13 PM
Hancock has a kingdom to protect/govern, so unless she has a succesor she won't be joining the crew. She'll wait in the Amazon kingdom for Luffy to return to/for her as Pirate King

Yes I agree, she does have her own kingdom but her two sisters can take care of that if she does decide to leave the kingdom for a while (after all if her sickness is still life threatening then it would make sence that her sisters would be willing to take over for her so she doesn't die).

Back on track though great chapter. Though Marco lost alot of respect in my eyes. Getting caught so easily like that Lame. Not to mention that he was running on the ground w/o using any fruit powers. Even Ace I think might have been a harder catch then that! Honestly this is a war don't leave yourself open or an easy target at any time! And is it just me or does Ace look morfe like an off version of luffy on the second to last page where WB is saying "Isn't that right ace?"

Razh
December 25, 2009, 08:16 PM
It just occurred to me that he's not smiling! (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/12-13/)

_AceOfSpades_
December 25, 2009, 08:29 PM
And is it just me or does Ace look morfe like an off version of luffy on the second to last page where WB is saying "Isn't that right ace?"

It's the eyes, the eyes. Ace's eyes look more like Luffy's at that time, since he is staring in shock. Usually his eyes look different ... because of the lids >.> There is nothing wrong, I think ...

mateltoy
December 25, 2009, 08:42 PM
I agree, Hancock has her kingdom, just as Vivi did, and Vivi was actually with the crew for a substantial amount of time. And although Hancock may seem to show disregard at times for her people, she actually does care, as evidenced by the fact that eventually, she does comply with the recommendation of grandma nyon and goes to fight with the marines.

And I also agree that Hancock being a shikibukai has little to do with whether or not the crew would agree to let her join. It's not as if they actually fought against her or something. Robin was legit, an ENEMY who attacked them several times and was the right hand woman of Crocodile, someone who nearly killed luffy 3 times. What grudge would they have against a woman like Hancock, who has only helped out Luffy?

Have you guys forgotten Grandma Nyon talking about how she left the kingdom because she was in love? Amazon lilly is packed with strong warriors, yeah Hancock is by far the strongest, but if she stays in Amazon Lilly she will just endager the island, because just as smoker already said... At the end of this thing, shes probably gonna be a target for the marines as well for getting in the way more than once. They havent even showed Smoker again, so its likely that she already beat him, but who knows.

Im not saying Hancock will join the strawhats, but how can she return "safely" to Amazon Lilly otherwise.
[hr]
Oh, also i forgot to tell you, but shall i remind you guys that Boa Hancock is already love sick?, she was going to die unless she left with luffy, and i dont think that condition will change if the war ends, they will be together from now on.

Shiro-kun
December 25, 2009, 08:58 PM
I will love to see how Oda deals with Hancock after this war xD

Although i have doubts she may become a SH , there is always a chance (who would of knowned that Franky or Nico Robin would of joined in the first place?)

Ironmonk
December 25, 2009, 09:13 PM
She can't go back to her Island because of her Love Sickness

And probably she can't remain as their Empress because this can put the Island in danger (since she will most probably be removed from shichibukai ranks by helping the enemy)

So... where she can go alone?

And a "wife" will be a funny addition to the crew :D

Shiro-kun
December 25, 2009, 09:39 PM
I could imagine all the funny moment she will have with Sanji lol

Anyways Whitebeard seems like he is going to die , iono about Joz it seems he got frozen and broken into Several Pieces and Marco got shot!

Im glad the marines are pwning right now, but its starting to look hopeless for the whitebeard pirates ....a little reinforcements for WB pirates wont hurt one bit haha and make the Marines look weak (seriously i thought the marines were barely equaling out the WB pirates before ...im glad Oda didnt make them up as such)

Super Angillis
December 25, 2009, 10:37 PM
I think I'm going to have to turn the panel of Coby running into Luffy's fist into my signature. I fully expect a demotivational poster of it to appear soon.
It shouldn't be surprising that Luffy's kings haki is a surprise to the Marines. We know it's rare, and I don't think anyone in the Marines has it. After all all the marines have to follow orders, even Sengoku, and a king gives orders.
Okay, I've worked out a potential solution to Boa's sickness. After the war, she takes Luffy back to Amazon Lily to recuperate, and Ivanakov and his followers go with them (after all, they can get around the no men rule easy). Then Hancock persuades Iva to administer the appropriate Hormones... Oda did say Luffy is 18 after strong world... And nine months later say hello to Boa D Lily. With a physical embodement of their love Boa should be fine.
If she does join the crew, what would her job be? All the Strawhats have some role in the crew like, first mate, navigator, scholer, etc? Granted I like Boa, so I wouldn't complain if she does join.

Duzy
December 26, 2009, 03:00 AM
Regarding apparent no damage dealt to either of Admirals, I reckon it has to do with their experience and style of fighting (which are interconnected). When Luffy fights with someone of about his level, he's more likely to slug it out and still come out alive (similar to featherweight boxers). When two mass destruction weapons like Kizaru and Marco are at it, they have to be careful not to be KO'ed with a single hit (similar to heavyweight boxers).

caleshious
December 26, 2009, 03:07 AM
If she does join the crew, what would her job be? All the Strawhats have some role in the crew like, first mate, navigator, scholer, etc? Granted I like Boa, so I wouldn't complain if she does join.

I think at this point in the manga the amount of obvious jobs required for the ships/teams function is pretty much fulfilled. I expect the next 2 nakama (assuming there will be 10) to just be people who Luffy wants around.

More related to the topic, i noticed that on the platform where the 2 guards either side of ace were standing, the platform actually appears to have been sliced by Luffy's haki, i was under the impression haki kinda just overwhelmed people with relatively week minds, but this picture kinda makes it appear that Luffy's haki has some kind of wind properties (like wind natured chakra in Naruto for example). I'm hoping we get some kind of explanation of what haki is soon, cause i think it could use some.

vagabond87
December 26, 2009, 03:19 AM
More related to the topic, i noticed that on the platform where the 2 guards either side of ace were standing, the platform actually appears to have been sliced by Luffy's haki, i was under the impression haki kinda just overwhelmed people with relatively week minds, but this picture kinda makes it appear that Luffy's haki has some kind of wind properties (like wind natured chakra in Naruto for example). I'm hoping we get some kind of explanation of what haki is soon, cause i think it could use some.[/QUOTE]

It was effect of crocodile sables used to kill executioners when Sengoku ordered to kill Ace earlier.. Not effect of Luffys haki

kalabazin
December 26, 2009, 03:54 AM
Regarding apparent no damage dealt to either of Admirals, I reckon it has to do with their experience and style of fighting (which are interconnected). When Luffy fights with someone of about his level, he's more likely to slug it out and still come out alive (similar to featherweight boxers). When two mass destruction weapons like Kizaru and Marco are at it, they have to be careful not to be KO'ed with a single hit (similar to heavyweight boxers).

If u watch closely until WB fell neither Marco, Jozu or the Admirals had any damage..

jiminy
December 26, 2009, 04:12 AM
More related to the topic, i noticed that on the platform where the 2 guards either side of ace were standing, the platform actually appears to have been sliced by Luffy's haki, i was under the impression haki kinda just overwhelmed people with relatively week minds, but this picture kinda makes it appear that Luffy's haki has some kind of wind properties (like wind natured chakra in Naruto for example). I'm hoping we get some kind of explanation of what haki is soon, cause i think it could use some.

I think you are mistaking what Crocodile did to the platform before with what luffy just did with his haki. If you look at the previous page, where the guards have their swords lifted, those cuts to the platform are also there.


I wonder where Akainu went after he punched WB. Did he just leave and let the weaker marines have a go at WB. (like in RPGs to let your weaker teammates gain experience haha)

mars0103
December 26, 2009, 04:37 AM
Oda did say Luffy is 18 after strong world... And nine months later say hello to Boa D Lily. With a physical embodement of their love Boa should be fine.


sorry i am a luffnami fan.
But i think luffy will have to talk to boa about this problem. I hope luffy gets so intelligens

vagabond87
December 26, 2009, 04:56 AM
Really hope that someone will free Marco from that seastone- maby Vista will help. If someone cut of Marcos hands probably he can regenerate them after changing into phoenix.. Onigumo is taking care of him so it will be cool to see Vista or Squad fighting him but this probably wont happen...
About Jozu- maby he have crystal structure, he is made out of milions of small diamonds not one big piece. If that is true than maby he can section his body. We already have seen Buggys paramecia that can do it so maby..
Other thing- that hole in the Whitebeards chest made by Akainu is far worse than Squads stab now i dont any chance of whitebeard living after the war. Next week it is time for someone new to show up because pirates are clearly loosing and ther is no chance for them too flee after freeing Ace without extra help or some big distraction, someone who want to shake the world to its core probably will come.

urlaub
December 26, 2009, 05:52 AM
I think Luffy's haki could be the key factor in a fight with Kizaru. e could predict the light-speed kicks. And of course he can hit logia with the punch that wasted Coby.

For me Luffy is right now able to pawn a VA. I have hoped for it for a long time. I predicted that it would happen in this chapter. Now I predict it will happen the next chapter. It will be 2 VAs in my oppinion. They will gang up on him again.

Does that Ongumo guy have the spider zoan? And did this come out the first time in this chapter? Plus Onigumo sucks my ass.

Luffy can't hold out against an admiral still yet. Altough he has his gear third second possible combination and that with haki. I still feel he isn't that powerful yet to hold off an admiral.

Razh
December 26, 2009, 06:05 AM
I think Luffy's haki could be the key factor in a fight with Kizaru. e could predict the light-speed kicks. And of course he can hit logia with the punch that wasted Coby.

For me Luffy is right now able to pawn a VA. I have hoped for it for a long time. I predicted that it would happen in this chapter. Now I predict it will happen the next chapter. It will be 2 VAs in my oppinion. They will gang up on him again.

Does that Ongumo guy have the spider zoan? And did this come out the first time in this chapter? Plus Onigumo sucks my ass.

Luffy can't hold out against an admiral still yet. Altough he has his gear third second possible combination and that with haki. I still feel he isn't that powerful yet to hold off an admiral.

Luffy was able to beat up a standard vice admiral even before this. And yeah, Onigumo was already shown in hybrid form when the battle began and and one more time I think. Plus Onigumo means demon-spider, I think. He's a jerk.

And I think Luffy can at least punch or hurt an admiral now. I'd like to see that. If he can touch them, anything's possible.

Ex-Shadow
December 26, 2009, 07:55 AM
Woah, this week's chapter is totally amazing. AND WHO SAID THERE IS NO OP UNTIL 15 DAYS!?!?!?!? Well, that aside, do you guys remember how Luffy punch Coby, he isn't going easy to anyone, huh? Pretty good, indeed.

So, all the prediction about Luffy's haki is half true, yes indeed he KO'ed marines, but only 2 and they're not even at Smoker's level, if you read it again at previous discussion, most of us thought that when Luffy burst out his haki, he will KO'ed many marines, right? (Even I had that kind of idea)

And I think Luffy can at least punch or hurt an admiral now. I'd like to see that. If he can touch them, anything's possible.
About he can hurt an admiral, I'm not sure, he can use haki, but he can't control it yet, right? It's like when he was at Amazon Lily, indeed he KO'ed many warriors, but he still can't use it to attack Gorgon Sister, so maybe Luffy will burst out his haki from times to times (and not use it too well).

Akainu
December 26, 2009, 08:12 AM
Woah, this week's chapter is totally amazing. AND WHO SAID THERE IS NO OP UNTIL 15 DAYS!?!?!?!?


ATTENTION:
The spoilers for the next chapter (570) won't be out until around the 2nd week of January due to the double issues and holiday break.

That'd have been me then :joke in reality it's up to shueisha and yes, there won't be a chapter until then for the given reason - someone was stating it might come early, but that's also bs, since we got the early issue already and there's no reason to print the next one in advance ;)

urlaub
December 26, 2009, 08:18 AM
Basically dalmatian and Onigumo need some ass whoopin. But look there are many VAs who we do not know yet and who attacked WB. The point is that Luffy did release haki and that was he final thing I was waiting for from him, but seems he has to do something more. And I predict a couple of VAs gonna go down. Luffy is not strong enough for an admiral and on the other side he can't advance further towards Ace, unless he takes on some strong dude. It is inevitable now. So couple of VAs gonna flop and drop.

Lord Rayleigh
December 26, 2009, 08:26 AM
Luffy was able to beat up a standard vice admiral even before this.
Just to say the rank of the giant Luffy beat has never been revealed. Only two giants - Ronse and Lacroix - of the giant squad have been confirmed as VAs.

iKeno
December 26, 2009, 08:58 AM
It just occurred to me that he's not smiling! (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/12-13/)

I didn't notice that either man thanks :). Seems like he has regrets.

Lord Rayleigh
December 26, 2009, 09:04 AM
To me, there is obviously an error in this page (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8105/64728543.jpg). I still don't understand what happened with Coby and Luffy. What's wrong is either the position of Luffy's body or either Coby's fly.


PS : you guys can have a bigger page without coloured arrows here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/03/)

l!nk
December 26, 2009, 09:06 AM
he´s tooo fast so he´s pretty far away when he punched coby in his face.

vagabond87
December 26, 2009, 09:25 AM
To me, there is obviously an error in this page (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8105/64728543.jpg). I still don't understand what happened with Coby and Luffy. What's wrong is either the position of Luffy's body or either Coby's fly.


PS : you guys can have a bigger page without coloured arrows here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/03/)

I dont see any error on this page- Luffy was running really fast, jumped a little in the air to hit Coby and flew a further after striking him to the ground..Luffys right and left hand are in correct places. Really dont see any problem here.

Lord Rayleigh
December 26, 2009, 09:41 AM
he´s tooo fast so he´s pretty far away when he punched coby in his face.
Ok. That means Coby did not fly after the punch : he directly ended up on the ground he was running before getting punched.

So, the next question is why Oda made Luffy advance that far whereas he's still in the punching position ? I guess it is because Luffy leaped up (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7661/55858995.jpg) just after he punched Coby. I see no other explanation.
[hr]
A little correction : that image (http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9049/51046385.jpg) would be better to explain it.

Philbo
December 26, 2009, 10:16 AM
My take on it is that Coby was using soru and it looked like Luffy hit him while he was mid-soru. So while his legs are still moving towards luffy his head has been pushed back by Luffys punch. This has caused him to slam onto his back. Maybe the momentum of soru and Luffy moving forward cause the gap between them?

Could be wrong but that's what I thought happened from the frame, I didn't think there was anything majorly wrong with it.

abc1233
December 26, 2009, 11:14 AM
Woah, this week's chapter is totally amazing. AND WHO SAID THERE IS NO OP UNTIL 15 DAYS!?!?!?!? Well, that aside, do you guys remember how Luffy punch Coby, he isn't going easy to anyone, huh? Pretty good, indeed.

So, all the prediction about Luffy's haki is half true, yes indeed he KO'ed marines, but only 2 and they're not even at Smoker's level, if you read it again at previous discussion, most of us thought that when Luffy burst out his haki, he will KO'ed many marines, right? (Even I had that kind of idea)

About he can hurt an admiral, I'm not sure, he can use haki, but he can't control it yet, right? It's like when he was at Amazon Lily, indeed he KO'ed many warriors, but he still can't use it to attack Gorgon Sister, so maybe Luffy will burst out his haki from times to times (and not use it too well).
back in impel down when luffy punched backbeard, blackbeard noted that luffy was getting better at controlling his haki. Also, when he punched coby, he was foaming at the mouth, similiar to when those knocked out by haki foam from the mouth. Although he may not have mastered his haki perfectly yet, he can infuse it in his punches to a good degree now so I won't be surprised if he can attack logia types now.

Razh
December 26, 2009, 11:23 AM
Just to say the rank of the giant Luffy beat has never been revealed. Only two giants - Ronse and Lacroix - of the giant squad have been confirmed as VAs.

FYI I wasn't even thinking about that guy. It's obvious that Luffy can beat any normal vice admiral when he's in full health. Don't tell me that Momonga and that Dalmatian seemed that strong to you? I believed before and I still believe that Lucci is stronger than most of the vice admirals. Nothing I've seen in this battle pointed that I was wrong.

BTW Luffy slammed Coby in to the ground with that punch and kept going thanks to the momentum. No reason to trouble yourself with drawing arrows that much.

Black Lagoon
December 26, 2009, 11:38 AM
To me, there is obviously an error in this page (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8105/64728543.jpg). I still don't understand what happened with Coby and Luffy. What's wrong is either the position of Luffy's body or either Coby's fly.


PS : you guys can have a bigger page without coloured arrows here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/03/)

IMO it's Ok, Look Coby used Soru (http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/630/88806073.png) (you can say that that one is similar to this one (http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-432/page010.html)) and Luffy used his Gomu Gomu no.
it's like when two cars collide.

tobito
December 26, 2009, 12:07 PM
I have a question, why are Nami's boobs SO BIG?! They were kinda normal in the beginning of the series and I thought she grew up over the years. But I read that it has only passed months since they became pirates so....has Nami gotten breast implants?

Back to the chapter, I think Sengoku will order Luffys death and ultimately WB will die protecting him.

Schabrak
December 26, 2009, 12:41 PM
I have a question, why are Nami's boobs SO BIG?! They were kinda normal in the beginning of the series and I thought she grew up over the years. But I read that it has only passed months since they became pirates so....has Nami gotten breast implants?

Back to the chapter, I think Sengoku will order Luffys death and ultimately WB will die protecting him.
There is a thread for such a question... Odacchi is drawing her like that for years now, so there's no reason to sound suprised now. At least since here: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/213/18/ It's just it's more obvious with his more refined drawing style.


it's like when two cars collide.
With Cobys face being one and Luffys fist being the other. XD There is no chance that a rather normal guy would still be awake after such a hit. F=m*a most basic physic formula there is.^^ 60-70kg*soru vs ca10kg*gomugomunobullet. It should not have anything to do with haki.

Razh
December 26, 2009, 03:31 PM
With Cobys face being one and Luffys fist being the other. XD There is no chance that a rather normal guy would still be awake after such a hit. F=m*a most basic physic formula there is.^^ 60-70kg*soru vs ca10kg*gomugomunobullet. It should not have anything to do with haki.

Sure but punches don't usually cause the punched person to have an epileptic attack.
I don't know what the name of the move is, but I've seen it in plenty of movies and in pro wrestling. Sadly in none which I can remember now, otherwise I would have some Youtube link. The person either runs or gets deflected by ropes then receives a forehand blow to the chest and falls down while still partly moving forward because of the momentum. That's what happened to poor Coby.

Black Lagoon
December 26, 2009, 03:47 PM
With Cobys face being one and Luffys fist being the other. XD There is no chance that a rather normal guy would still be awake after such a hit. F=m*a most basic physic formula there is.^^ 60-70kg*soru vs ca10kg*gomugomunobullet. It should not have anything to do with haki.

LOL ... I think that we should compare it with Haki :tem
Like you say : "60-70kg*soru vs ca10kg*gomugomunobullet" ~= Haki
this equation means that when someone uses his haki and someone else or many faint, it is barely equal to that punch xD.

Consequences :

Haki
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4316/haki.th.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/haki.jpg/)
60-70kg*soru vs ca10kg*gomugomunobullet
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6684/punsh.th.png (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/punsh.png/)

Of course the Punch leaves marks, scars and broken bones :grin

BTW : it seems that Luffy can only activate/awake his Haki by saying STOP :fan
First time (http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000088312/17.jpg) and Second time (http://static.mangastream.com/manga/5/17/15-16.png)

mr.danly
December 26, 2009, 04:29 PM
interesting. Now that I see the two images, I am starting to buy the haki-punch theory. When Luffy punches someone, there has never been foam at the mouth. Prime example :http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/232/18-19/ A similar punch with similar effects, but Coby is also foaming. And the only time we've seen foam at the mouth is when haki is used.

ClinoJustu
December 26, 2009, 05:00 PM
Well,well

Too much talk and post for just this "foaming".
For me , Luffy just give a fucking strong fist in his face.See the power and the trace of this fist, no surprising that result!
I think we talk too much of luffy's haki :darn

Razh
December 26, 2009, 05:34 PM
I'd agree with you if it wasn't that obvious that it was Haki related. First guy ever to have an epileptic seizure after being punched and right before Luffy used Haki to knock out a bunch of people. Can you honestly say that you believe that Coby foaming doesn't have anything to do with Haki?

Then again, there's a possibility that Coby suffers from epilepsy. But there's nothing that points to that, while there are a lot of facts that indicate it was Haki.

mars0103
December 26, 2009, 05:39 PM
LOL ... I think that we should compare it with Haki :tem
Like you say : "60-70kg*soru vs ca10kg*gomugomunobullet" ~= Haki
this equation means that when someone uses his haki and someone else or many faint, it is barely equal to that punch xD.

Consequences :

Haki
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4316/haki.th.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/haki.jpg/)
60-70kg*soru vs ca10kg*gomugomunobullet
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6684/punsh.th.png (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/punsh.png/)

Of course the Punch leaves marks, scars and broken bones :grin

BTW : it seems that Luffy can only activate/awake his Haki by saying STOP :fan
First time (http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000088312/17.jpg) and Second time (http://static.mangastream.com/manga/5/17/15-16.png)
he has used haki too more times that bull an the wolves

ClinoJustu
December 26, 2009, 05:59 PM
Can you honestly say that you believe that Coby foaming doesn't have anything to do with Haki?

Honestly , at the first view yes i tought it had a (big) link with haki , but after reflexion i think i told to myself that because i waited luffy's haki for few weeks and (like many people) :
big fist ==> foam, KO ==> Haki :p

Too much noise for this , if it was haki , Mr.Oda drawed at the minimum luffy's face,eye angry with an effect, you know, just before hit :

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/536/17/

And it's difficult to say luffy use haki here , he doesn't control it so manage to hit someone with haki ....:oh

But if it's haki i'm sure we'll know it.

Razh
December 26, 2009, 06:07 PM
Too much noise for this , if it was haki , Mr.Oda drawed at the minimum luffy's face,eye angry with an effect, you know, just before hit :

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/536/17/


There's no effect there, just shade from a forehead. It's certainly not a Haki indicator. Luffy looked perfectly normal when he used Haki on Motobaro. Sure, anime added an effect but there was nothing in manga.

There is no definitive proof here, but this would be a weird time for Oda to uncover that Coby suffers from epileptic seizures from time to time.

ClinoJustu
December 26, 2009, 06:16 PM
uncover that Coby suffers from epileptic seizures from time to time.

I Think that if he show Coby foaming and KO like that , that is for showing us that luffy definitly want to save ace and nothing will stop him even if it's a friend who try to stop him (here Coby) , he have no pity , he is ready to go with all his strenght(power).


(sorry for my english , tell me if you don't understand what i mean :/ )

mr.danly
December 26, 2009, 06:38 PM
I Think that if he show Coby foaming and KO like that , that is for showing us that luffy definitly want to save ace and nothing will stop him even if it's a friend who try to stop him (here Coby) , he have no pity , he is ready to go with all his strenght(power).


(sorry for my english , tell me if you don't understand what i mean :/ )

I understand, but the point remains that I don't think ANYONE in the manga has EVER been shown to foam at the mouth after a punch. No one has been shown to foam at the mouth, unconscious, at all actually, unless it was haki-related.

Black Lagoon
December 26, 2009, 07:02 PM
he has used haki too more times that bull an the wolves
I don't think so, there was always some mere characters around when luffy had a fight, and nobody was shown unconscious or something, Luffy's not like Sasuke who's always spamming Sharingan and lately MS, even assuming that he's using Haki unintentionally or unconsciously.


I Think that if he show Coby foaming and KO like that , that is for showing us that luffy definitly want to save ace and nothing will stop him even if it's a friend who try to stop him (here Coby) , he have no pity , he is ready to go with all his strenght(power).


(sorry for my english , tell me if you don't understand what i mean :/ )

There's no need for Oda to show such a thing because it's obvious, and Luffy already said that he'd rather die if Ace dies, you need more prove? :blink It's true that they are friends but remember this (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/433/09/) :)

gbnf
December 26, 2009, 07:28 PM
This: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565/03/ indicates that some of the Supernova's are leaving SA. Whether that means they are joining the fight is debatable. If Shanks wasn't holding off one of the Yonkou he would probably be in this battle as well. Now would seem like a good time for Dragon to show up, but there has been so little revealed about him, that it's hard to predict his actions. Coby got owned, but that wasn't really a surprise. He was inbetween Luffy & Ace. Even with his use of haki, there's no way Luffy can take on any of the admirals. Two of WB's strongest captains are at least temporarily out of the action. So, someone is going to have to show up to help turn the tide.

There is one thing that I don't understand. In chapter 568 Akainu landed a devastating blow to WB. So why not attempt to finish him off instead of letting random peons attack him? :blink

BlindMunkey
December 26, 2009, 09:17 PM
I don't think so, there was always some mere characters around when luffy had a fight, and nobody was shown unconscious or something, Luffy's not like Sasuke who's always spamming Sharingan and lately MS, even assuming that he's using Haki unintentionally or unconsciously.



There's no need for Oda to show such a thing because it's obvious, and Luffy already said that he'd rather die if Ace dies, you need more prove? :blink It's true that they are friends but remember this (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/433/09/) :)

he only used his haki to the bull..
anyways.. an awesome chapter.. what a way to end the year and not to mention how everyone wanted luffy to use haki [including myself]. did anyone see JANGO knocked out foaming from luffyz haki attk.. HILARIOUS and some pirates got hit with the haki too.
btw is Aokiji in disbelieve saying " he must be using magic" cuz i dont seem him not knowing about the haki.

LOL @ sharingan spamming.. just like rasengan ... sry off topic

neovenom
December 27, 2009, 02:05 AM
I understand, but the point remains that I don't think ANYONE in the manga has EVER been shown to foam at the mouth after a punch. No one has been shown to foam at the mouth, unconscious, at all actually, unless it was haki-related.

here is a foaming unrelated to haki lol (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/542/07/)

i don't even think the foaming is an indication of anything as serious as epileptic seizures, i think it's just Oda's way of indicating a loss of consciousness. Although it would be cool for luffy to use haki imbued punches, i doubt the punch he gave coby was haki imbued or more like i'll wait until it's confirmed that he can imbue haki in his punches when he punches the crap out of someone intangible, hopefully it'll be kizaru, i want him to smack him one right on the face, it doesn't even have to be luffy, anyone will do, that smug look on his face has been pissing me off since he was introduced.

xstationcubed
December 27, 2009, 03:31 AM
He only seems capable of drawing out a substantial amount of haki in the most dire of situations. the deal with the bull hardly even counts, it was nothing more than a weak minded animal. every significant use of haki has been at the last concievable moment, when the situation was at its most grim, with the exception of his attack on BB, at which point he was simply furious beyond reasoning. at this point in time, he can't draw out significant haki without an overwhelmingly powerful emotion behind it.

urlaub
December 27, 2009, 07:04 AM
Off-topic: First sign of Namis breasts http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/158/14/.

Yeah, the argument for a haki bunch would be that it is way cooler if it was a haki loaden bunch.

hdiuy
December 27, 2009, 08:17 AM
Just read the chapter and i must say it was kinda cool. I liked how WB's allies are forming a 'wall' around WB. Though its pretty crazy that WB can survive blows from bazookas. Its spider-VA + 1!!!
Ifn the previous chapters i was wondering why Sengoku wouldn't execute Ace himself. And i'm hoping that Oda wouldn't give a crappy reason on why Sengoku would not execute Ace himself

Bugzee
December 27, 2009, 08:50 AM
Sengoku is focusing on the battlefield, he doesn't want anything unexpected to happen during the excuetion of Ace...but all hasn't gone according to plan the way Sengoku wanted it too! :XD Plus, his the Fleet Admiral it doesn't look good for such a person to do the excuetioner's job imo. Sengoku is more concerned about WB's head tbh with you.

Go Jinbei :shakefist...I hope he survives the war!!!! :eek I want to see more of Vista as well. I wonder how many marines and pirates have fallen due to Luffy's haki :amuse next chapter is going to be very interesting hehehe...I wonder what Sengoku is thinking!!! :XD Garp must surely be proud of his grandson and show it with his fist of love! :XD

Super Angillis
December 27, 2009, 08:57 AM
Just read the chapter and i must say it was kinda cool. I liked how WB's allies are forming a 'wall' around WB. Though its pretty crazy that WB can survive blows from bazookas. Its spider-VA + 1!!!
Ifn the previous chapters i was wondering why Sengoku wouldn't execute Ace himself. And i'm hoping that Oda wouldn't give a crappy reason on why Sengoku would not execute Ace himself

Don't forget that Sengoku is pretty much the last line of defense before Ace. He may be keeping his attention focused on the battle to keep anyone from slipping in, even morso now that Crocodile has hit the executioners. He also has to keep an eye on the general flow of battle and adjust orders and tactics as needed.

msg
December 27, 2009, 09:13 AM
Here's another one (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/466/11/)

Why do i get the feeling Jozu will have both of his arm back..oh its just me..lol

Bugzee
December 27, 2009, 09:25 AM
I'm really disaapointed with Marco :(. I really believed that he would at least rescue Jozu from the ice and protect WB from Akainu's attacks :facepalm..Marco's in more serious danger!! :eek

Don't know about you guys, but the fact that the top three commanders plus WB are in grave danger and are struggling at the moment...gives me the impression that it will soon be the perfect time for.....someone else to enter :D

hdiuy
December 27, 2009, 09:51 AM
Don't forget that Sengoku is pretty much the last line of defense before Ace. He may be keeping his attention focused on the battle to keep anyone from slipping in, even morso now that Crocodile has hit the executioners. He also has to keep an eye on the general flow of battle and adjust orders and tactics as needed.

I'm pretty sure if Sengoku wants to kill Ace himself, Ace would be like dead in less than a second. So yea i'm kinda of having mixed reactions about this. Its anti-climatic to end Ace's life that early but at the same time i hope that there would be a good reason from stopping Sengoku to execute Ace himself.

vagabond87
December 27, 2009, 10:23 AM
I'm pretty sure if Sengoku wants to kill Ace himself, Ace would be like dead in less than a second. So yea i'm kinda of having mixed reactions about this. Its anti-climatic to end Ace's life that early but at the same time i hope that there would be a good reason from stopping Sengoku to execute Ace himself.

Like somebody writen earlier Sengokus reason for not killing Ace by himself is that he is strongest marine and cant kill somebody harmless- it will look like some kind of desperation. It will show that marines are weak if head of the marines must do "dirty work". It is honorable tradiction to execute pirates in specific way- some proof of power- and Sengoku probably want to show pirates that marines are strong enough to execute Ace exactly the way they want.

hdiuy
December 27, 2009, 10:34 AM
Like somebody writen earlier Sengokus reason for not killing Ace by himself is that he is strongest marine and cant kill somebody harmless- it will look like some kind of desperation. It will show that marines are weak if head of the marines must do "dirty work". It is honorable tradiction to execute pirates in specific way- some proof of power- and Sengoku probably want to show pirates that marines are strong enough to execute Ace exactly the way they want.

Thanks ,I do see what you're saying but i do feel that Sengoku wanting to get rid of Ace himself is a much more better way(and more of my style :) . Guess its just me. I do hope that when the time do arrive that Sengoku wants to get rid of Ace, it will be of a good reason that Sengoku fails to get rid of Ace. After all now that Sengoku's orders to kill Ace failed, i'm hoping that Sengoku would do it himself

vagabond87
December 27, 2009, 11:00 AM
Thanks ,I do see what you're saying but i do feel that Sengoku wanting to get rid of Ace himself is a much more better way(and more of my style :) . Guess its just me. I do hope that when the time do arrive that Sengoku wants to get rid of Ace, it will be of a good reason that Sengoku fails to get rid of Ace. After all now that Sengoku's orders to kill Ace failed, i'm hoping that Sengoku would do it himself

I want to see Sengoku making his move soon just like you and I hope that Garp will do something to stop him from killing Ace..Their are friends but Garp loves Ace like his own family and after hearing that Ace want to live like never before Garps heart must be breaking.. Sadly marines are in to good situation right now and we must wait few weeks for some SENGOKU-ACTION :(
We will probably see it when someone will come to help pirates or weaken marines more.. Next chapter someone should come, the timing cant be better.

Black Lagoon
December 27, 2009, 11:06 AM
Yeah, I think next time he will do it himself, and then I guess that we'll see Garp doing something for the family, of course only in case he still hasn't done anything.

Klippe
December 27, 2009, 11:08 AM
hey everyone,
i've been reading in this forum for quite a while and now i wanted to agree with some people about the next chapters
I think rayleigh is going to show up, i mean in one piece friendship is really important and gol d roger was probably his best friend AND his captain,so he wouldnt let ace die, i really hope some other of rogers pirates will appear as well,but idk how they'll get there.
I disagree with everyone saying dragon will show up, even if he's really strong idk if the rest of the revolutionaries are that strong besides the ones from impel down. I guess he could only lose in this situation. And always remember Ace is not Dragons son,and since ruffy doesnt even know his father really well,how is his father supposed to know about ruffy and ace? (ok he knows everything)
And to everyone saying the strawhat pirates will show up, i disagree,i dont think they will be seen in this arc at all, at least not in the main plot, its focused on the big guys and ruffy.

I really hope that rayleigh,roger pirates and maybe the supernovas will show up :)

gold349
December 27, 2009, 11:19 AM
I want Garp to be 'the marine' he is supposed to be, as much as many want him to 'turn' I don't think he should, he should show the same determination as a marine fighting pirates as vice versa...don't get me wrong I don't want him to fight/kill/defat Ace or Luffy but he should try and defend his line as good as possible. Garp IMO isn't going to try and stop the execution, like he says if he could have done something he already would have and now that he is standing as 1 of the defense lines and as the blades have already fallen once on Ace neck and Luffy is the one who managed with his haki to stop it...Garp like now wouldn't stop the blades from falling on Ace...Luffy has also been very dangerous situation and he didn't move thats how he should remain, Garp the fist should be a fine marine till the end IMO.

vagabond87
December 27, 2009, 11:45 AM
Garp will probably take hit on purpose from someone really strong for Ace.. Stronger than Marco, some legend like Whitebeard or Rayleigh, so marines wouldnt suspect his betreyal. He really cant do more than this and it would be good for the story..
He is Legendary Marine but just like Witebeard he have one heart and if he will see "oportunity" for this he will take it. He didt do anything so far but oda shows us how he is fighting himself on purpose.
I am thinking about why Akiainu didt delivered finishinig blow to Whitebeard and.. Maby Sengoku wanted to show to everybody Whitebeard dying from hands of some marines with lower rank than Admiral to show that marines are in much better situation or how much stronger they are comparing to pirates..

Black Lagoon
December 27, 2009, 12:06 PM
Garp will probably take hit on purpose from someone really strong for Ace.. Stronger than Marco, some legend like Whitebeard or Rayleigh, so marines wouldnt suspect his betreyal. He really cant do more than this and it would be good for the story..

the only ones that are stronger than Marco I think it's WB, Sengoku and Rayleigh if he shows up (at least in their prime time), the Admirals or the Shichibukais IMO are in the same level.

vagabond87
December 27, 2009, 12:48 PM
the only ones that are stronger than Marco I think it's WB, Sengoku and Rayleigh if he shows up (at least in their prime time), the Admirals or the Shichibukais IMO are in the same level.

And probably Squad is strongest new world capitan allied with Whitebeard so he is very strong. When he stabbed Whitebeard, Marco mennaged to stop him on the ground only for few seconds and when Squado attacked him he dodged. Maby he is close to Marco level.. And we know he want to redeem himself for what he did to Whitebeard. He will do something big in the upcoming chapters.

Lord Rayleigh
December 27, 2009, 12:49 PM
If Sengoku had to kill Ace himself, Garp would come ahead of Ace.

SENGOKU : What the hell are you doing, Garp ?!
GARP : You want to kill Ace with your own hands... As a friend and as a marine, I beg you to reconsider that, Sengoku-chan. while walking towards Sengoku to convince him.
SENGOKU : You know very well I haven't got any other option. while Garp continues to ask him to change his mind. It's enough, Garp ! Get out of my way ! It's an order !
Then, Sengoku starts to walk towards Ace again and passes next to Garp. Suddenly, Garp catchs his arm.
GARP : So you've fallen that far, Sengoku-chan. I guess I'll have to stop you myself with an epic hard glance while Sengoku is looking him in the face.

Kage_JD
December 27, 2009, 02:09 PM
i dont see any double issue in this chapter. For me all the pages except 12-15 are useless and dont make any sense just a pure waist of time
what im wondering about is that a single shout of luffy knocked out those soldiers who shouldvbe executed ace

BluePheasant
December 27, 2009, 02:34 PM
A few chapters ago sengoku said that he and garp would have to join, and yet they havent done much and whitebeards top men are all going down.
i also think the new world pirates are pretty useless, they could have atleast helped abit theyve done nothing but stab whitebeard LOL.
someones gonna come, luffy himself isnt enoough.

RAYLEIGH, I CHOOSE YOU!

Franklyn D. Kieran
December 27, 2009, 04:11 PM
looool why is that a good thing?:facepalm the poor kid!!! I guess it just shows how far luffy is willing to go to save his brother, but still.... I always liked coby, and luffy shouldn't have treated him like that.

I think the reason Luffy punches Coby was to protect him, I mean if Coby tried to fight against the white beard pirates he surely would have been beaten if he couldn't even beat Luffy, so Luffy must have KO'ed him to protect him from further harm from stronger pirates.

l!nk
December 27, 2009, 04:43 PM
RAYLEIGH, I CHOOSE YOU!

IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

well i don't see that coming.
i wonder who that guy was who opened the gates and wth is bb doin.

Dim
December 27, 2009, 04:59 PM
i agree wiht most of your post... however we havent seen much of the NW pirates! we saw one taking out a pacifista wih no end result!
i think there will be ridiculously strong ones and midicore ones- i wouldnt be suprised if the mugiwara weighed up better than alot of them- but then again 40 crews similar tot eh strawhats can do a hell of a lot of damage!

Oda has to satisfy his fans in one way or another- sooo the likely hood of luffy connecting an admiral will only be at the expence of luffy getting owned... i got the feeling luffy is going to to be out in a coma for a couple months and wake up in like fishman island or something!

I can see dragon comming- but not with all fo teh revolutionaries! they said at SA something was comming- it was broadcasted aorund the world- we know he cares about his son! so there is a huge likelyhood that he can help out

rayleigh- i can see rayleigh as an escape route with a coated sunny- with or without the mguiwara

rayleigh and the old roger crew is highly unlikely

as is shanks comming-

however with that said!!! luff's allies are a strength that is so far beyond anyone else in the one piece world!

BOA-JIMBEI- REVOLUTIONARIES- MAYBE WB PIRATES- SHANKS- RAYLEIGH

all of the golden oldies seem to betting huge on the new ERA, and that why i think rayleigh will come again!

Franklyn D. Kieran
December 27, 2009, 05:09 PM
Maybe we will see WhiteBeard die in the next chapter, but he might do so in the process of saving Ace.

evozoku
December 27, 2009, 05:35 PM
im with u about the WB pirates not showing their full potential; but about WB using his children as fodders, not so much. If he had step up at the beginning, that's like saying he doesnt have trust in his sons; and at the same time, implying the the WB pirates arent anybody worth noticing if they require the assistance of their captain on everything single thing.

I'm not saying only WB should and is capable of fighting, I'm just saying he stands back for a long time while others are risking his life. And so what if he's the commander. He's not in that position because he's a strategist (whether he's a good one or not). He's commander because he can kick the shit out of anyone. And could you imagine Luffy standing back first while his crew leaps into battle?

mr.danly
December 27, 2009, 05:36 PM
I think the reason Luffy punches Coby was to protect him, I mean if Coby tried to fight against the white beard pirates he surely would have been beaten if he couldn't even beat Luffy, so Luffy must have KO'ed him to protect him from further harm from stronger pirates.

i don't really think so. I mean he just immediately knocks him out. I don't see how that is protecting coby, even if it saves him from the danger of fighting the WB pirates. As it is now, Coby is unconscious on the ground of a half-blown up island that is the stage of one of the greatest battles in history. And with people like Akainu sending down giant magma fists http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/16-17/ and whatnot, Coby is much more likely to be killed from random attacks than being killed during a fight.

Black Lagoon
December 27, 2009, 05:42 PM
I agree with mr.danly ... Luffy was just cleaning his way :guns

Franklyn D. Kieran
December 27, 2009, 05:42 PM
i don't really think so. I mean he just immediately knocks him out. I don't see how that is protecting coby, even if it saves him from the danger of fighting the WB pirates. As it is now, Coby is unconscious on the ground of a half-blown up island that is the stage of one of the greatest battles in history. And with people like Akainu sending down giant magma fists http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/16-17/ and whatnot, Coby is much more likely to be killed from random attacks than being killed during a fight.



Your probably right, maybe it was just that Luffy doesn't care who he takes out if it's to save Ace, although I still think Coby will live through this battle to fight Luffy in the New World

ClinoJustu
December 27, 2009, 05:49 PM
It's true that they are friends but remember this (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/433/09/) :)


And what? Mr.Oda illustre here that luffy didn't joke with what he said to Coby in water seven that's why he draw these scene (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/03/) like this (big fist,foam,..)


Here's another one (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/466/11/)l


Hey , so ussop use haki?:p
Here for me another element to confort my position.

Black Lagoon
December 27, 2009, 06:09 PM
And what? Mr.Oda illustre here that luffy didn't joke with what he said to Coby in water seven that's why he draw these scene (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/03/) like this (big fist,foam,..)

Why so selective? :blink actually ... that was just a part of my answer, you've said that Oda draw that panel only to show us how determined is Luffy in saving Ace.
And I've said that Oda wouldn't waste some valuable panels for such a thing ... that was obvious from the day Ace and Luffy met, and Luffy already said that he'd rather die if Ace dies.

JC123
December 27, 2009, 06:14 PM
i don't really think so. I mean he just immediately knocks him out. I don't see how that is protecting coby, even if it saves him from the danger of fighting the WB pirates. As it is now, Coby is unconscious on the ground of a half-blown up island that is the stage of one of the greatest battles in history. And with people like Akainu sending down giant magma fists http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/16-17/ and whatnot, Coby is much more likely to be killed from random attacks than being killed during a fight.

If anything, it is a form of protection. Luffy's going to guarantee he will be stronger than Coby to protect the people he cares for. If Coby wants to become an Admiral, he'll have to do it over Luffy's dead body. Though, you do have a point about the fact that there's a LOT of stuff flying around.

Black Lagoon
December 27, 2009, 06:18 PM
If anything, it is a form of protection. Luffy's going to guarantee he will be stronger than Coby to protect the people he cares for. If Coby wants to become an Admiral, he'll have to do it over Luffy's dead body. Though, you do have a point about the fact that there's a LOT of stuff flying around.

I don't think that some day Coby would be an equal to Luffy or at least in the same level.
Because as long as he's getting stronger, Luffy is getting even more stronger. xD

ClinoJustu
December 27, 2009, 06:27 PM
Why so selective?........Oda draw that panel only to show us how determined is Luffy in saving Ace.


Not only the determination of Luffy :amuse , these scene show us the levels of Luffy's determination in making Luffy "said" :p :
"I told you Coby ! I will not have pity the next time we'll meet and i have to save Ace, so .... !!!!"

And for me there is no Haki in these scene :)
(sorry i guess my english is not the best:s :tem)
[hr]

I don't think that some day Coby would be an equal to Luffy or at least in the same level.
Because as long as he's getting stronger, Luffy is getting even more stronger. xD

Hey , imagine that Coby have the haoushoku haki ! xD
I like the idea of Coby equal to Luffy:)

Black Lagoon
December 27, 2009, 06:37 PM
Not only the determination of Luffy :amuse , these scene show us the levels of Luffy's determination in making Luffy "said" :p :
"I told you Coby ! I will not have pity the next time we'll meet and i have to save Ace, so .... !!!!"
And for me there is no Haki in these scene :)
Yeah, next time Coby should think about the consequences before exposing himself defenseless in front of Luffy. :grin
I think now it'd be Helmeppo's turn, I don't think that he'll leave it like that (Coby pwned alone :p), it's part of their training. xD

(sorry i guess my english is not the best:s :tem)

Mine isn't good as well :facepalm

Franklyn D. Kieran
December 27, 2009, 06:40 PM
Not only the determination of Luffy :amuse , these scene show us the levels of Luffy's determination in making Luffy "said" :p :
"I told you Coby ! I will not have pity the next time we'll meet and i have to save Ace, so .... !!!!"

And for me there is no Haki in these scene :)
(sorry i guess my english is not the best:s :tem)
<hr noshade size="1">


Hey , imagine that Coby have the haoushoku haki ! xD
I like the idea of Coby equal to Luffy:)


I hope that Coby doesn't posses any Haki power at all it wouldn't be right xD, I mean look at the difference in strenght between Coby and Luffy at the beggining of One Piece, it was major and still is, I don't think Coby would stand a chance against Luffy still, although there is a possibilty of Coby eating some kind of Devil Fruit to make him stronger, now that would be interesting.

Black Lagoon
December 27, 2009, 07:00 PM
I hope that Coby doesn't posses any Haki power at all it wouldn't be right xD, I mean look at the difference in strenght between Coby and Luffy at the beggining of One Piece, it was major and still is, I don't think Coby would stand a chance against Luffy still, although there is a possibilty of Coby eating some kind of Devil Fruit to make him stronger, now that would be interesting.

Haki wouldn't suit him very well right now, and I like the coward Coby and Helmeppo the douche-bag :tem.

the problem is ... which DF would allow him to fight in equal with Luffy in the future.

ClinoJustu
December 27, 2009, 07:07 PM
the problem is ... which DF would allow him to fight in equal with Luffy in the future.

Haha to be equal to Luffy , a derivation of Gomu Gomu no mi : Latex Latex no mi XD:blink
Wow , good night everyone :D

Franklyn D. Kieran
December 27, 2009, 07:20 PM
Haki wouldn't suit him very well right now, and I like the coward Coby and Helmeppo the douche-bag :tem.

the problem is ... which DF would allow him to fight in equal with Luffy in the future.

yeah it wouldt seem right for Coby to have Haki, lol yeah I don't think their two personalities are going to change any time soon; I think definately a Logia type fruit would be the thing to make Coby at least a little bit more up to the strength of Luffy, although I can't think of anything specific

jromz03
December 27, 2009, 07:45 PM
my guess is Coby will be the new Garp eventually.

no DF (assuming Garp doesn't have one), and can dish out the haki punches like Garp can.

hyperdog
December 27, 2009, 08:28 PM
First of all, this chapter is really interesting seeing Luffy explodes his haki in front of the marines and WB. :facepalm Also seeing Joz and Marco got beaten would really emphasize the fact that WB crew is going down. However, I still hope that Marco might cut off his right hand and fight again, since he is a phoenix. I also cannot believe that the only person who is logia type in WB crew is ACE. This just show how strong the WG is since they have many logia fighters eg: three admirals and Smoker.

One thing that I don't fully understand is that since the haki user can physically attack logia users and do damage on them, why did WB's spear pearce through the ice man. and can the logia users use haki as well ?

Super Angillis
December 27, 2009, 09:11 PM
my guess is Coby will be the new Garp eventually.

no DF (assuming Garp doesn't have one), and can dish out the haki punches like Garp can.

I always figured it was going to be Smoker, as he's the one who keeps cornering Luffy, but never can catch him.

caleshious
December 27, 2009, 11:47 PM
Coby will probably get some hax devil fruit than can absorb/mimic other fruit users, kinda like how Sylar works in Heroes. Then they can have a rubber battle. zzzzzz

1nfamous
December 28, 2009, 03:16 AM
lmao.... wht happened to Mr.3 and Mr.1 ?

Gecko Moria
December 28, 2009, 04:34 AM
Coby will probably get some hax devil fruit than can absorb/mimic other fruit users, kinda like how Sylar works in Heroes. Then they can have a rubber battle. zzzzzz

I don't really like Coby all that much so I would not want him to get the abilities of a hypothetical fruit as powerful as that. As he trained under Garp for a while, he should attain powers similar to Garp (superhuman strength and haki).


lmao.... wht happened to Mr.3 and Mr.1 ?

I guess Oda is currently focusing on more important characters at the moment. Mr. 1 is probably fighting off a couple of Marines and Mr. 3 most likely hiding somewhere.

MokiSenpai
December 28, 2009, 05:21 AM
Logia users can use haki i guess. Just think about Enel. I think the mantra is haki.

vagabond87
December 28, 2009, 05:37 AM
Just like Rogers ability to hear all things.. I think that Whitebeard got it too because Marco stated that when he was in full health he was capable of dodging every attack from every direction and we actually seen Whitebeard avoiding sneak attacks from Ace. Vista said he tried this more than 100 times.. Haki is more complicated than we think- Hancock attacks turning into stone, Whitbeards attacks with his bisento, Admirals stopping him from destroying platform, Rayleight cutting Kizarus face and many others in the future...

rajuchacha
December 28, 2009, 05:59 AM
I wanted to ask this for a long time, does sea stone also suppress Haki? so far we know that sea stone exhibits properties of sea so DF users cannot use their powers but we are not told anything about such limitation for Haki users. I don't understand why then sea stone is so feared. if ace, jimbei aur any elite pirate cannot break sea stone chains they can atleast break the walls of prison and why ace is doing nothing just sitting at execution platform.

it seems like sea stone is ulitmate power in OP world, luffy should buy seastone gloves :P.

Klippe
December 28, 2009, 06:11 AM
i'm a little annoyed with ppl saying they're disappointed in the captains/commanders of whitebeards crew, even though they are strong it makes sense that most of them are not able to really compete with the admirals,why? Since there are 4 and not only 1 yonkou, the crew of 1 shouldnt be able to beat the marines all alone, and the admirals are almost the strongest ppl in the marines.
If marco would be able to pwn an admiral by himself then there wouldnt be ANY balance of power, since whitebeards crew could take out the marines and then u have shanks,kaido (?) and unknown, so the yonkou would be to strong, so it makes sense that they are losing and they clearly need support

vagabond87
December 28, 2009, 06:19 AM
I wanted to ask this for a long time, does sea stone also suppress Haki? so far we know that sea stone exhibits properties of sea so DF users cannot use their powers but we are not told anything about such limitation for Haki users. I don't understand why then sea stone is so feared. if ace, jimbei aur any elite pirate cannot break sea stone chains they can atleast break the walls of prison and why ace is doing nothing just sitting at execution platform.

it seems like sea stone is ulitmate power in OP world, luffy should buy seastone gloves :P.

If he do this he wont be able to move with them :p
We dont know yet about seastone surpassing Haki because of what Silvers Rayleight once did in Sabaody Archipelago Arc in
Human Auctioning House.. But what he did is probably effect of his DF ability to scatter things(one of the members of manga helpers posted something about this- probably LordRayleigh so kudos to him)
I think that seastone is harder than diamon(somebody said that in impel down) and thats why it is surpassing
strenght of one piece characters:p Especially because it is drawing all strenght out of the DF users.

msg
December 28, 2009, 07:47 AM
It's a possibility that once someone(most probaby luffy) release ace from the seastone cuff, he will be the one in return rescuing others and attacking the marines while escaping from marineford.

Lord Rayleigh
December 28, 2009, 07:51 AM
I don't think that some day Coby would be an equal to Luffy or at least in the same level.
Because as long as he's getting stronger, Luffy is getting even more stronger. xD
If a timeskip is coming, that will settle this problem.
Luffy already had his big growth (Gear 2&3) that outdistances the Coby using Soru. Luffy's next big growth (Haki) will be the answer to the New World challenge, so we know his (royal) Haki will not be available on demand quickly in the future.
This time could allow Coby to get his big growth (fighting technics, DF ?) to catch up with Luffy. And knowing that a lot of marine officers die in this battle, it gives opportunities to marine rookies like Coby and Helmeppo to get difficult missions : we all know the only thing they lack is fighting experience (what Luffy got faster as his ship's always sailing on the GL). With a timeskip, they would both get what they lack and they would also go on fighting and training : they'd get really stronger.


Haki is more complicated than we think- Hancock attacks turning into stone, Whitbeards attacks with his bisento, Admirals stopping him from destroying platform, Rayleight cutting Kizarus face and many others in the future...
Hancock's attacks turning into stone is because of her DF, there's no Haki there.

Gats
December 28, 2009, 12:41 PM
Logia users can use haki i guess. Just think about Enel. I think the mantra is haki.

If it was true, Enel would know what Luffy would do and how to dodge it when he did gomu gomu no gatling on his ship to hit him.

abc1233
December 28, 2009, 12:55 PM
If it was true, Enel would know what Luffy would do and how to dodge it when he did gomu gomu no gatling on his ship to hit him.

my memory of the sky islands arc is a bit fuzzy but didn't luffy use another gomu gomu no attack whereby he sent his fists flynig in random directions so that he couldnt know where his fists would end up which was how he beat enel's mantra?

Lord Rayleigh
December 28, 2009, 01:00 PM
If it was true, Enel would know what Luffy would do and how to dodge it when he did gomu gomu no gatling on his ship to hit him.
Enel can use Mantra (similar to the snake sisters'Haki power). And Luffy did a special gatling gun (he did not target anything, he just hit anywhere). And that's offtopic : go to the megaconvo.

igosuki
December 28, 2009, 03:19 PM
Mantra is just a name for one use of Haki ... don't you guys get it ?

k-dom
December 28, 2009, 04:45 PM
Some think it is, some think it isn't ( in particular because there is a definition of mantra which does not resemble haki and also because it looks more like an innate gift which does not resemble haki either).
There has been a discution on that topic aleady during the kuja arc...

Razh
December 28, 2009, 04:46 PM
Mantra is just a name for one use of Haki ... don't you guys get it ?

Not necessarily. We know that Mantra users could hear other people's thoughts and thus know what they are about to do. That's why Luffy in "stupid mode" could avoid Enel's trident.
It's still not clear whether Haki allows users to read thoughts or just to sense what will come next.

White Silver King
December 28, 2009, 05:14 PM
We know that Mantra users could hear other people's thoughts and thus know what they are about to do.

No, Mantra is not the ability to read peoples thought, mantra is the ability to listen for the various sounds that a person's body makes thus allowing people who possess it to predict peoples moves.

Razh
December 28, 2009, 05:23 PM
No, Mantra is not the ability to read peoples thought, mantra is the ability to listen for the various sounds that a person's body makes thus allowing people who possess it to predict peoples moves.

Those are the words of Ganfall who admits it himself that he doesn't know that much about it. Later we see that priests and Enel actually hear thoughts and not much else.

White Silver King
December 28, 2009, 05:27 PM
Do you have a page you can show me, I'm really fuzzy on the Sky Island arc.

elitefox
December 28, 2009, 05:32 PM
If a timeskip is coming, that will settle this problem.
Luffy already had his big growth (Gear 2&3) that outdistances the Coby using Soru. Luffy's next big growth (Haki) will be the answer to the New World challenge, so we know his (royal) Haki will not be available on demand quickly in the future.
This time could allow Coby to get his big growth (fighting technics, DF ?) to catch up with Luffy. And knowing that a lot of marine officers die in this battle, it gives opportunities to marine rookies like Coby and Helmeppo to get difficult missions : we all know the only thing they lack is fighting experience (what Luffy got faster as his ship's always sailing on the GL). With a timeskip, they would both get what they lack and they would also go on fighting and training : they'd get really stronger.


Hancock's attacks turning into stone is because of her DF, there's no Haki there.

I agree they will get stronger since Garp is training them, fist of love conquers all :lol


... except if Garp dies in this hella battle:darn

monkey D luffy
December 28, 2009, 05:36 PM
Not necessarily. We know that Mantra users could hear other people's thoughts and thus know what they are about to do. That's why Luffy in "stupid mode" could avoid Enel's trident.
It's still not clear whether Haki allows users to read thoughts or just to sense what will come next.

exectly! thank you! i hope that people will get a grip already, stop balming haki for everything that is a bit illogical in the manga, if it really is so great why bother having DF's if haki can negate them? you should just learn how to use it, and why are there at least 2 different types of haki? i dont want haki to be integral part of one piece just a technique that is hard to control and will grant enourmous finishing moves and nothing more, you want haki to become: chakra? chi? energy? furyoko (shaman king)? power level? stop looking for it in every little stinking thing!

Razh
December 28, 2009, 05:39 PM
Do you have a page you can show me, I'm really fuzzy on the Sky Island arc.

Here it is. I remembered because it wasn't that long since I was rereading the part. It was fun. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/257/07/)
Yeah, Ganfall explains what should be the principles but priests and Enel just seemed to have been hearing thoughts. But sure, thoughts could also be a part of the sounds that a body makes. But as I said before Luffy in "baka mode" was able to avoid Enel's attacks. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/281/13/) He stopped thinking, and Enel couldn't read anything.

But it's all offtopic.

Have fun in the last eve of this year guys! Lots of it :)

_AceOfSpades_
December 28, 2009, 06:01 PM
Heh, I'm glad to have that Mantra / haki thing cleared up. I guess Luffy foreseeing Hawkeyes' attack was Mantra then. The "listen" part reminds me of Roger's ability to "hear the voice of all things", taken literally (Enel showed his range, right? what if Roger's range was ...limitless?) this would mean he can hear ... an awful lot of stuff. xD I'm quite intrigued.
Regarding the prediction... I thought of the supernovas again. When Law and Urouge said that they're going to set sail I just assumed they were talking about joining the fight ..... but - again... rereading that part again Apoo's troupe said something about "sailing the whole way back to watch it" so, maybe ... the Law and Urouge part only meant that they are setting sail for the fishman island? I mean what reason do the supernovas have to join the fight?

Yans86
December 28, 2009, 09:16 PM
Can u guys imagine the range of Apoo's attack in an all out war?!that would be sick!!

Super Angillis
December 28, 2009, 10:51 PM
I wanted to ask this for a long time, does sea stone also suppress Haki? so far we know that sea stone exhibits properties of sea so DF users cannot use their powers but we are not told anything about such limitation for Haki users. I don't understand why then sea stone is so feared. if ace, jimbei aur any elite pirate cannot break sea stone chains they can atleast break the walls of prison and why ace is doing nothing just sitting at execution platform.

it seems like sea stone is ulitmate power in OP world, luffy should buy seastone gloves :P.

Judging from what Boa Hancock did to Smokers Jutte, no, I don't think Seastone does a thing to Haki. Luffy getting seastone gloves, is a stupid idea. Not only does seastone cancel devil fruit powers, but it causes a DF user to lose their strength. Just look at what happened to Luffy when He touched the bars of the cage Crocodile stuck him in during Albastea. That's why a DF user can't break the walls, not to mention that in Impel downs case, they'd drown.

Mangafan2
December 28, 2009, 11:10 PM
I'm pretty sure Rayleigh isn't coming. He had a hard time with Kizaru alone. I doubt he can do anything good against the marines and their huge army with admirals.

Maybe someone else from Gol D Roger's crew. Or even maybe Shanks and his crew to join sides with WB for a while. But I doubt that.

The super nova's are coming, they are the only reinforcements they get.

Maybe Blackbeard will show up aswell, but I can't really tell who's side he's on. Probably his own.

I dont think the following won't show up because:

Dragon: Ace isn't his son and he already saved Luffy once, he isn't going to magically show up everywhere there is trouble.

Shanks: It could be as stated as above but I don't think we will see Shanks fight in a while.

elitefox
December 29, 2009, 12:36 AM
I'm pretty sure Rayleigh isn't coming. He had a hard time with Kizaru alone. I doubt he can do anything good against the marines and their huge army with admirals.

Maybe someone else from Gol D Roger's crew. Or even maybe Shanks and his crew to join sides with WB for a while. But I doubt that.

The super nova's are coming, they are the only reinforcements they get.

Maybe Blackbeard will show up aswell, but I can't really tell who's side he's on. Probably his own.

I dont think the following won't show up because:

Dragon: Ace isn't his son and he already saved Luffy once, he isn't going to magically show up everywhere there is trouble.

Shanks: It could be as stated as above but I don't think we will see Shanks fight in a while.

When did we see Shanks fight lol :eyeroll

Dragon coming isn't impossible if he predicted luffy... gosh can anybody predict what luffy can think....


I think most of the marine army are knock down by luffy :D
maybe most of the pirates too or not since it is said they are powerful.


If luffy can punch any of the admiral, I say it will hurt... why?
as far as I can see, no one has ever injure them for quite a long time...


Oooh, I can't wait to see why the hell they are sweating with that kind of haki... even sengoku?

Dim
December 29, 2009, 03:33 AM
i wonder how much longer whitebeard can move on?? thoughts?

i wont say next chapter he will be down-

my thoughts on haki are everyone has it, not everyone knows how to use it! and luffy's Haki is jsut in a huge proprtion (he has a lot that he can use) but dunno! can't wait for haki to be clarified! it will end our pointless conversations about it lol

im so hoping marco uses it to get out of the hand cuffs! now that he's in them and badly injured i can see some captain having to take care of him or soemthing! theres no way a VA or admiral would sit by him whilst the war is being fought!

hope they dont kill him :(

and i think Joz can move in Diamond form! if he makes his body diamond and limbs but his joints normal then he should be able to move with it!

regardless- diamond is the hardest substance on the earth but it is brittle! a normal diamond can chip if its hit by a hard object!

Gecko Moria
December 29, 2009, 03:59 AM
I wanted to ask this for a long time, does sea stone also suppress Haki? so far we know that sea stone exhibits properties of sea so DF users cannot use their powers but we are not told anything about such limitation for Haki users.

I doubt that the sea affects haki users like Devil Fruit users otherwise Shanks (proven haki user), would not be able to swim and he would not have been able to rescue Luffy from the Sea King at the very beginning of One Piece. Therefore, if the sea does not affect haki users, then presumably seastone (which is merely a condensed version of the sea) would not either.


I don't understand why then sea stone is so feared. if ace, jimbei aur any elite pirate cannot break sea stone chains they can atleast break the walls of prison and why ace is doing nothing just sitting at execution platform.

Seastone is feared because of its ability to completely cripple Devil Fruit users and many of the most powerful characters so far fall into that category (Admirals, Shichibukai, Whitebeard, Enel etc.). Even people as strong as Marco and Joz are totally incapacitated by seastone.

Even if Ace or Jinbei were to break through the walls of a prison such as Impel Down they would have to make their way through the entire prison and most likely just be captured again. And they still wouldn't be able to do anything because Impel Down is surrounded by water and a gigantic gate.

Ace is currently sitting on an execution platform in the middle of the Marines' forces. Considering what he's been through, I doubt he has the energy to move at all and even if he did attempt an escape any random Marine could easily strike him down because his fire abilities are nullified by the seastone handcuffs.


it seems like sea stone is ulitmate power in OP world, luffy should buy seastone gloves :P.

I don't think seastone is the ultimate power in One Piece at all. Despite its variety of uses, it doesn't have nearly as uses as haki which can basically do everything seastone can do and more. And even if it can nullify DF powers, it's not as useful. Would be be better to face someone like Mihawk with a decent DF power or a piece of seastone? In my opinion: Haki>DF>Seastone

craziii
December 29, 2009, 04:58 AM
hancocks stone turning attack isn't haki........................................it is her DF power. I don't know where you get that idea from. it is similar to her love arrow attack. turning everything it hits to stone.

sea stone only affects DF users as stated in the manga, where did some of you guys get the idea it affects haki users too? I am curious. feels like I am missing something that some of you guys are obviously seeing.

I wonder how many in OP world have the king haki. seems like everyone is surprise by luffy's.

vagabond87
December 29, 2009, 06:25 AM
hancocks stone turning attack isn't haki........................................it is her DF power. I don't know where you get that idea from. it is similar to her love arrow attack. turning everything it hits to stone.


Yes it was my mistake and I dont know why you are still bothered by this.. If you read earlier posts you would see that someone pointed my mistake before.. No need for doing this again.
I am almost certain that Jozu and Marco will be back in action. Next chapter its time for Squad and soon we will see Luffy using keys.
About what Whitebeard said about his death- he probably mean that he will die after he will make sure that his sons will be safe and he didnt meant that he will live after the war..

abc1233
December 29, 2009, 07:49 AM
I'm pretty sure Rayleigh isn't coming. He had a hard time with Kizaru alone. I doubt he can do anything good against the marines and their huge army with admirals.

Maybe someone else from Gol D Roger's crew. Or even maybe Shanks and his crew to join sides with WB for a while. But I doubt that.

The super nova's are coming, they are the only reinforcements they get.

Maybe Blackbeard will show up aswell, but I can't really tell who's side he's on. Probably his own.

I dont think the following won't show up because:

Dragon: Ace isn't his son and he already saved Luffy once, he isn't going to magically show up everywhere there is trouble.

Shanks: It could be as stated as above but I don't think we will see Shanks fight in a while.
dragon: he is a revolutionist, as in, he wants to take down the WG. right now the strongest pirate crew i nthe world along with the new world pirats are attacking the WG. This is most likely the first time the WG has been crippled so much, so it's the best opportunity for dragon and the revolutionists to plant an attack. He has already saved luffy once against smoker and he could have seen iva-chan and luffy on the screen where the battle was being broadcast, so that gives him even more reason to join the fight.

Shanks: was confirmed to be battling kaidou a while back to help whitebeard, so it shows that he cares at least and if shanks wins the battle then i see no reason why he wouldn't join the fight too.

The supernovas: they know they are rookies and they probably won't be able to aalter the tide of battle even if they did join in, and they don't gain much by risking their lives especially after seeing the position that the pirates were in, so i doubt they'd turn up.

Rayleigh: maybe, but as we have seen, kizaru is in good health and doesn't appear to have suffered much damage from his fight with rayleigh so we can assume that rayleigh either ran away or was captured. Also, if he did join the battle, again, he wouldn't be able to alter the tide of battle with 3 admirals still in good condition to fight.

Strawhats: again, rookies. Unless if they have all surpassed luffy, which I doubt, they wouldn't be able to make that much of a difference.

Dr. Vegapunk
December 29, 2009, 08:21 AM
This is how it goes down for me:

2 or more chapters and we get ourselves an end to OP. We figure out after those chapters on the whereabouts of the other Mugiwaras. After that an immeadiate time skip and the beginning of the other free Mugiwaras planning an escape of there captain Luffy.

Time skip could be anywhere from 2 to 5 years later. Maybe more and we end up getting a matured look lol.

Dim
December 29, 2009, 08:23 AM
I wonder if kaidou was trying to stop white beard because he knew WB would lose??? even with his giant fleet!

Also i want to see if luffy gets frozen by akoji if luffy being in gear 2nd would melt away the ice! i know i doubt it, but would be a decent defence lol
only prob is no blood could flow through to his limbs whilst frozen! guess i answered my own stupid question lol

i wonder who luffy is up against next?

still so much to show
how boa got the key
who opened the gate?
whats whitebeards next move
squad? and the rest of teh captains!
is anyone going to come help out ???

monkey D luffy
December 29, 2009, 09:00 AM
at this moment luffy is as strong as ace. the reason why i believe so is solely because their only difference in power is DF, luffy was almost equal to ace strength wise in alabsta and now luffy is way, waaaaaay stronger then before, i truly beliece that once luffy uses haki that persumably (not 100% sure about this) can allow him to hit logias he can be considered as powerful as ace.

ihateyou1
December 29, 2009, 09:28 AM
well i'm pretty sure whitebeard won't die in this war... not now... why? because we'll see him in the strong world movie! he's in that movie right... and the setting of that movie was after the war so my bet is white beard won't die in this war...

Kshunsui
December 29, 2009, 09:29 AM
all the kujas warriors have haki, in the manga only luffy and hankoc are confirmed hakushou haki users , luffy in the battle against the boa sisters slept and entire auditory of haki users, its the more rare haki and only few have it, even boa doesnt master the hakushou, search onepiece wikia im tired

abc1233
December 29, 2009, 09:44 AM
all the kujas warriors have haki, in the manga only luffy and hankoc are confirmed hakushou haki users , luffy in the battle against the boa sisters slept and entire auditory of haki users, its the more rare haki and only few have it, even boa doesnt master the hakushou, search onepiece wikia im tired

shanks and rayleigh also appear to have it. Haven't seen whitebeard use it though.

Kshunsui
December 29, 2009, 09:51 AM
raleight, shanks and whitebeard area haki users, the only confirmed Haōshoku Haki are luffy and hancok
Haōshoku Haki
Luffy's Haōshoku HakiHaōshoku (覇王色, King's Disposition?) is a high level of Haki that only a chosen few of one in a million are born with. A person with this level of Haki is powerful enough to take out many of the Kuja warriors who are already accustomed to regular Haki. And at the proper distance, this haki can even cause the recipient to follow the user's imperatives on a subconscious basis.[1]

[edit] Known Haōshoku Haki UsersSo far, the only people confirmed to possess this level of Haki:

Monkey D. Luffy
Boa Hancock

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Haki

abc1233
December 29, 2009, 11:34 AM
raleight, shanks and whitebeard area haki users, the only confirmed Haōshoku Haki are luffy and hancok
Haōshoku Haki
Luffy's Haōshoku HakiHaōshoku (覇王色, King's Disposition?) is a high level of Haki that only a chosen few of one in a million are born with. A person with this level of Haki is powerful enough to take out many of the Kuja warriors who are already accustomed to regular Haki. And at the proper distance, this haki can even cause the recipient to follow the user's imperatives on a subconscious basis.[1]

[edit] Known Haōshoku Haki UsersSo far, the only people confirmed to possess this level of Haki:

Monkey D. Luffy
Boa Hancock

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Haki
But we've seen that certain hakis give the user certain abilities, e.g. to predict the foes' moves, or to negate the effects of DFs, like the snake sisters. The kings disposition appears to be different from the rest as it can allow the user to knock out weaker foes in the area, just like how luffy, shanks, and rayleigh have demonstrated in the past. However we still don't know the specifics of haki yet like what abilities all the hakis give the user.

sage mode
December 29, 2009, 11:47 AM
raleight, shanks and whitebeard area haki users, the only confirmed Haōshoku Haki are luffy and hancok
Haōshoku Haki
Luffy's Haōshoku HakiHaōshoku (覇王色, King's Disposition?) is a high level of Haki that only a chosen few of one in a million are born with. A person with this level of Haki is powerful enough to take out many of the Kuja warriors who are already accustomed to regular Haki. And at the proper distance, this haki can even cause the recipient to follow the user's imperatives on a subconscious basis.[1]

[edit] Known Haōshoku Haki UsersSo far, the only people confirmed to possess this level of Haki:

Monkey D. Luffy
Boa Hancock

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Haki

but a wiki entry can every person edit. And the reason why people say only 2 confirmed persons are because only 2 weve seen after we heard the name Kings Disposition

blackking187
December 29, 2009, 11:49 AM
Have a question

Did BB give shanks the scar at his eye?

Because if he did, when was that?
When shanks saves luffy he already have it.
I assume that BB has his Dv not so long right?
Did he gave it shanks without his dv and when he was with the wb pirates.

Someone clear this for me

goldb
December 29, 2009, 12:00 PM
Have a question

Did BB give shanks the scar at his eye?

Because if he did, when was that?
When shanks saves luffy he already have it.
I assume that BB has his Dv not so long right?
Did he gave it shanks without his dv and when he was with the wb pirates.

Someone clear this for me

Yes BB gave Shanks the scar, it was before he had his DF abilities, because we know Shanks has had that scar for at least 10 years and BB had his DF not more than 2-3 years ago. Do you not read the manga?

Yabe
December 29, 2009, 12:01 PM
But we've seen that certain hakis give the user certain abilities, e.g. to predict the foes' moves, or to negate the effects of DFs, like the snake sisters. The kings disposition appears to be different from the rest as it can allow the user to knock out weaker foes in the area, just like how luffy, shanks, and rayleigh have demonstrated in the past. However we still don't know the specifics of haki yet like what abilities all the hakis give the user.

Hm, but still we don't have the certain info regarding Shanks' and Rayleigh's type of Haki yet. The Haoshoku Haki was also said to be really rare...

Anyway, if you guys are interested to discuss deeply and specifically on Haki, there is a better thread for it here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35040). You may also like to read this interesting post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1080692&postcount=62) about real world Haki explanation. :)


I dont think the following won't show up because:

Dragon: Ace isn't his son and he already saved Luffy once, he isn't going to magically show up everywhere there is trouble.

Shanks: It could be as stated as above but I don't think we will see Shanks fight in a while.
I also have the same impression for Dragon, but for Shanks, I'm not really sure. IIRC there was the marines' report on the move of a Yonkou, plus when looking into Shanks' concern on Ace meeting Teach in the past, I think that there is a chance that he will have a part in this wars and I have a hunch that this time is the close time now for Luffy to get to meet him again.


Btw, please try to stay on topic guys. This break is long, but if you feel like discussing about something else then please use the Mega Convo thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53759), or to the Tree of Knowledge (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61).

Black Lagoon
December 29, 2009, 12:19 PM
Shanks may appear but I think that all he wanted is to let whitebeard have a direct confrontation (a face to face) with the WG, besides I guess that he's exhausted from his recent fight with Kaidou, and probably he's celebrating "Nothing" in an Island. :grin
Without mentioning the Straw Hat ... I mean, what would be the meaning of Mugiwara no Luffy without a Straw Hat. :tem

ekasim
December 29, 2009, 05:24 PM
Here is my prediction:

Next chapter we'll see things going from bad to worse....but in the end we'll see a surprise: Blackbeard will have accomplished his goal and everybody in the battlefield will see it and fight will end.....I expect an ancient weapon to be awakened :)

mr.danly
December 29, 2009, 05:26 PM
but a wiki entry can every person edit. And the reason why people say only 2 confirmed persons are because only 2 weve seen after we heard the name Kings Disposition

no, they're confirmed because of this. http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/
she specifically says "that was the haoushoku haki".

and here, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/19/, hancock says "just like me, he possesses the haoushoku haki."

THAT IS CONFIRMED. there is nothing to discuss about whether or not hancock and luffy have the king's disposition haki. THEY DO. Everyone else is unconfirmed, because we don't know the exact effects of the haoushoku haki, and it hasn't been said about anyone else that they have the haoushoku haki.

Black Lagoon
December 29, 2009, 05:34 PM
Take a look at my Sig :ninja I'd like that to happen Soon, Bon-chan is so young to die :tem
(Sorry for the one line)

PirateMusician
December 29, 2009, 05:58 PM
thinking about how marco just got owned...

if the pheonix df lets him regenerate, shouldn't somebody on his side just cut off his hand with the seastone cuff? Since he'll regenerate it anyway, I mean, once the kairoseki is out of the way...

frontaLobotomy
December 29, 2009, 06:22 PM
I've read this written a few times about Marco being able to regenerate as part of his DF power. It's highly likely that if he were to cut his own hand off while the seastone negates his power, he will be permanently without that hand. It'd be too easy otherwise. Maybe as an awakened Zoan (which I'd imagine he is) he'd stand some chance, but it's still unlikely either way.

Mangafan2
December 29, 2009, 07:35 PM
dragon: he is a revolutionist, as in, he wants to take down the WG. right now the strongest pirate crew i nthe world along with the new world pirats are attacking the WG. This is most likely the first time the WG has been crippled so much, so it's the best opportunity for dragon and the revolutionists to plant an attack. He has already saved luffy once against smoker and he could have seen iva-chan and luffy on the screen where the battle was being broadcast, so that gives him even more reason to join the fight.

Shanks: was confirmed to be battling kaidou a while back to help whitebeard, so it shows that he cares at least and if shanks wins the battle then i see no reason why he wouldn't join the fight too.

The supernovas: they know they are rookies and they probably won't be able to aalter the tide of battle even if they did join in, and they don't gain much by risking their lives especially after seeing the position that the pirates were in, so i doubt they'd turn up.

Rayleigh: maybe, but as we have seen, kizaru is in good health and doesn't appear to have suffered much damage from his fight with rayleigh so we can assume that rayleigh either ran away or was captured. Also, if he did join the battle, again, he wouldn't be able to alter the tide of battle with 3 admirals still in good condition to fight.

Strawhats: again, rookies. Unless if they have all surpassed luffy, which I doubt, they wouldn't be able to make that much of a difference.

I have to disagree with your here.

If Dragon joins to bring down the WG, they will most likely succeed and I don't think the WG should fall cause they are the main opposing force in the OP story.
You can bet on it that the WG will live on. If their HQ falls, it's all over for them.

So only not so powerful pirates (not near the level of WB or higher) can join the fight now and atleast try to save Ace, damage the WG as much as possible and make a run for it.

Vadz
December 29, 2009, 08:36 PM
I'm pretty sure Rayleigh isn't coming. He had a hard time with Kizaru alone. I doubt he can do anything good against the marines and their huge army with admirals.

Maybe someone else from Gol D Roger's crew. Or even maybe Shanks and his crew to join sides with WB for a while. But I doubt that.

The super nova's are coming, they are the only reinforcements they get.

Maybe Blackbeard will show up aswell, but I can't really tell who's side he's on. Probably his own.

I dont think the following won't show up because:

Dragon: Ace isn't his son and he already saved Luffy once, he isn't going to magically show up everywhere there is trouble.

Shanks: It could be as stated as above but I don't think we will see Shanks fight in a while.

I still expect that Rayleigh will come.
So far, we don't know dragon's deep personality. But, I think I had seen Rayleighs somewhere in the mangas.
Then, I don't know if you guys think the same thing like me.
If you were Rayleigh himself, with his personalities in you, just say what you're gonna do if you see your beloved captain's son is about to be executed. Hiding and watch him die ? or relying on someone to save him.
Coz if you see Iva-chan also saves Luffy from deaths many times in this battle, yet he just knows that Luffy is his partner's son from Luffy himself.

Muhbaer
December 29, 2009, 08:49 PM
maybe roger didn't want anyone but garb to know that he has a child, cause garb I guess as a marine was the only one who could keep his child safe from the WG.
I don't think Shanks knew about ace being rogers son and also buggy didn't

Vadz
December 29, 2009, 09:35 PM
maybe roger didn't want anyone but garb to know that he has a child, cause garb I guess as a marine was the only one who could keep his child safe from the WG.
I don't think Shanks knew about ace being rogers son and also buggy didn't

How did Squardo know ? from Akainu ? I doubt that...
Think about how there was a marine who reported that there was 1 more Den Den Mushi that still on the line ? How could that marine knew that ? They don't have the damn television like in the Arch.
And then, how that Aokiji knew that Buggy was helding it ? By seeing it from the plaza or he got told that buggy is showing up in the television.
oh right, someone's from arch told the marine that 1 vision is still up.. but how ? using iPhone ?
damn right, what if Shanks has 1 of an iPhone and knows the happening situation... Well anyway, let see whats gonna happen.


But we still don't know what is up with http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/04/
show me the pace bruh...

Poneglyph420
December 29, 2009, 11:02 PM
I have to disagree with your here.

If Dragon joins to bring down the WG, they will most likely succeed and I don't think the WG should fall cause they are the main opposing force in the OP story.
You can bet on it that the WG will live on. If their HQ falls, it's all over for them.

So only not so powerful pirates (not near the level of WB or higher) can join the fight now and atleast try to save Ace, damage the WG as much as possible and make a run for it.


I agree that that the post you replied to was most likely not practical. Actually some of it was...:darn

I do hope that the Marine Headquarters is at least partially destroyed from the impact of the war. I think the Marines are in for some losses even in their senior ranks before this is over....
Yes the Marines and their headquarters are the last bastion of the might of the WG. However the WG's seat of power is truly Mariejois..

Besides Dragon is way more clever than that IMO....

craziii
December 30, 2009, 01:22 AM
shanks and Rayleigh have the king haki also. shanks showed this on WB's ship, ray showed us in the auction house. how could you guys forget about these when it is in the same arc :(

Rayleigh will show up for sure, but only near the end. thousand sunny will become the only way for surviving pirates to escape!

how/when will dragon show up though? it is not a question of if. from a common sense point of view, he SHOULD show up. like so many of us fans already pointed out, this is the best chance for him to realize his goal, to topple the world gov. and maybe saved his son for a 2nd time.

ekasim
December 30, 2009, 01:58 AM
shanks and Rayleigh have the king haki also. shanks showed this on WB's ship, ray showed us in the auction house. how could you guys forget about these when it is in the same arc :(

Shanks and Ray-san are Haki users...but quality of their Haki is not specified. I think we'll see in future if they have king haki or not.

NoLimit89
December 30, 2009, 04:04 AM
how/when will dragon show up though? it is not a question of if. from a common sense point of view, he SHOULD show up. like so many of us fans already pointed out, this is the best chance for him to realize his goal, to topple the world gov. and maybe saved his son for a 2nd time.

I was rereading the manga from when Luffy broke into ID again, and from what Iva said, it is pretty much foreshadowed that Dragon would appear in this war. Iva said that the time he rise to the surface is the time when Dragon starts a war.

Dim
December 30, 2009, 04:31 AM
The thing that frustrates me the msot is that everyone thinks they figured something out about haki aka the kings haki based on the Kuja pirates! the kuja pirates are oblivious to the outside world! theyncouldnt figure out that the sisters had DF abilities etc i do think that Boa has a similar haki to luffy but the whole kings haki im still not definate about! IMO there will be alot more to it!

Gecko Moria
December 30, 2009, 05:27 AM
I was rereading the manga from when Luffy broke into ID again, and from what Iva said, it is pretty much foreshadowed that Dragon would appear in this war. Iva said that the time he rise to the surface is the time when Dragon starts a war.

I hope a character of Dragon's caliber does appear to aid the pirates in their failing struggle against the Marines. Being the leader of the revolutionaries, he should seize this prime opportunity to revolutionize against the World Government.


The thing that frustrates me the msot is that everyone thinks they figured something out about haki aka the kings haki based on the Kuja pirates!

Agreed, haki is a very obscure part of the One Piece world at the moment. We understand it exists but the full extent of haki abilities remains unknown.

Gats
December 30, 2009, 06:14 AM
I was rereading the manga from when Luffy broke into ID again, and from what Iva said, it is pretty much foreshadowed that Dragon would appear in this war. Iva said that the time he rise to the surface is the time when Dragon starts a war.

He said that just before discovering that Luffy is Dragon son and decided to go out anyway because it's his duty to protect Luffy. So for now it doesn't mean anything about Dragon appearance.

Like always, Luffy brings chaos in everyone's plan.

Youbba
December 30, 2009, 07:44 AM
I was re-reading the last chapter, there something that I think is very important, when Luffy used his haki, everyone was surprised pirates and marines, but Luffy was'nt, remember when he used his haki before :
--here against DUVAL's bull : http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/495/17/
he was surprised
--here against the Kuja pirates : http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/
he thought that the pirates have listened to him

BUT here against the wolfs in level 5 : http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/536/18/ he fainted just after.

AND the last chapter http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/14-15/
he wasn't surprised at all, My idea is that LUFFY understand what he have done.
The kuja's pirates or more particularly Hankock must have explained (or at least tried to :)) to Luffy what is Haki and how does it work.
We know that haki is the key against the admirals, if luffy doesn't know about haki, I think it's very improbable that he will start to use it in his attacks.
IMO he know what is haki he must have even started to try it with the help of the Kuja, but for some reasons (maybe the lack of time or others unkown secrets about haki) he wasn't able to use it. So he decided to rely on his old and mastered technics, BUT since he knows what it is and how it works he will use very soon :D

Dekker
December 30, 2009, 08:01 AM
I dont think so. Luffy couldve also fainted because of the poisen. We just dont know yet ;)

Duzy
December 30, 2009, 08:10 AM
I was rereading the manga from when Luffy broke into ID again, and from what Iva said, it is pretty much foreshadowed that Dragon would appear in this war. Iva said that the time he rise to the surface is the time when Dragon starts a war.

From what I remember he said just the opposite. He said thet it wasn't the time to break out of Impel Down because Dragon was not to move yet.

Youbba
December 30, 2009, 08:24 AM
I dont think so. Luffy couldve also fainted because of the poisen. We just dont know yet ;)

eh What I meant by "fainted" is that we don't what his expression would have been after using haki, of course he fainted because of poison, but because he fainted we don't know if he realised that he have used haki against the wolfs, in the last chapter I think he understands what he have done.

Lord Rayleigh
December 30, 2009, 08:34 AM
I was rereading the manga from when Luffy broke into ID again, and from what Iva said, it is pretty much foreshadowed that Dragon would appear in this war. Iva said that the time he rise to the surface is the time when Dragon starts a war.
Iva first said that Dragon would not appear in the war between WB and WG and that's why he could not break out for the moment. Then, he learnt that Luffy was Dragon'son and also understood that Ace was his son too : thus Iva believed that Dragon would join the war to prevent Ace's execution. After all that, when they were coming to MHQ, Luffy told Iva that Ace and him does not have the same father, that Ace's was Gol D. Roger. So, finally Iva understood that Dragon would not come to this war because in fact he has no personal interest in it. He came back to his first idea and he is just at MHQ to protect Luffy.
Thus, Dragon will not come to MHQ, otherwise Iva would have decided before he met Luffy to break out of ID.

abc1233
December 30, 2009, 10:13 AM
Iva first said that Dragon would not appear in the war between WB and WG and that's why he could not break out for the moment. Then, he learnt that Luffy was Dragon'son and also understood that Ace was his son too : thus Iva believed that Dragon would join the war to prevent Ace's execution. After all that, when they were coming to MHQ, Luffy told Iva that Ace and him does not have the same father, that Ace's was Gol D. Roger. So, finally Iva understood that Dragon would not come to this war because in fact he has no personal interest in it. He came back to his first idea and he is just at MHQ to protect Luffy.
Thus, Dragon will not come to MHQ, otherwise Iva would have decided before he met Luffy to break out of ID.
but when dragon learns that his true son, luffy, is in the war, won't that change things?

Dim
December 30, 2009, 11:45 AM
OFFCOURSE IT WILL CAHNGE THIGNS- THEY BROADCASTED IT AROUND THE WORLD! AND IM DEFINATE LUFFY WAS SHOWN!

it would be EPICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC if a giant shadow flies over and actual dragon appears :p like a weather dragon (lighting dragon, ice dragon, fire dragon) hahahaha way cooler than Drags being a weather or storm logia :D

only prob is if the fight is advertised then there have to be mroe allies comming!
its just a matter of who! Oda will prob do soemthing unusual and twisted even more jsut when we think the tide is turning in our favour like bring the garosuie (however it is spelt) or Dadan :p who knows! thats the beauty to one piece we never know and rarely guess accurately!

BluePheasant
December 30, 2009, 11:52 AM
GUYS! IS IT NOT OBVIOUS? Buggy has the GOD haki and makes everybody die apart from aokiji (cuz hes cool and my fav) and then saves ace and runs away. then whitebeard dies for the pirates to escape and chase after buggy and stalling the marines.

mr.danly
December 30, 2009, 12:47 PM
shanks and Rayleigh have the king haki also. shanks showed this on WB's ship, ray showed us in the auction house. how could you guys forget about these when it is in the same arc :(

Rayleigh will show up for sure, but only near the end. thousand sunny will become the only way for surviving pirates to escape!

how/when will dragon show up though? it is not a question of if. from a common sense point of view, he SHOULD show up. like so many of us fans already pointed out, this is the best chance for him to realize his goal, to topple the world gov. and maybe saved his son for a 2nd time.

HOW do you know that they have king haki? The only assumption you're going on is that Luffy has kings haki, and when he uses it, people faint. It's possible, maybe even likely, that Shanks and Rayleigh have haoshouku haki, but until we know more about the effects of haki, you can't just make assumptions like that.

joshua019
December 30, 2009, 12:47 PM
i was wondering when is he going to use his haki this arc.....

sage mode
December 30, 2009, 01:01 PM
make people faint is the special ability that only the kings haki have.Why? Because after Luffy used it the kujas said that this ability is the kings disposition.If it is another typ why are they say it to 100 %

Manny.F
December 30, 2009, 02:11 PM
Luffy with his new found haki will use haki punches to take out the admirals and a haki stare of doom to take out the fodder. He will then use his super haki powers to heal WB who will then infuse his devil fruit powers with haki to battle Garp and Sengoku who will also use haki. Haki haki haki haki haki

mars0103
December 30, 2009, 02:24 PM
Luffy with his new found haki will use haki punches to take out the admirals and a haki stare of doom to take out the fodder. He will then use his super haki powers to heal WB who will then infuse his devil fruit powers with haki to battle Garp and Sengoku who will also use haki. Haki haki haki haki haki

what haki can heal as well:). I just remembered something shanks used haki on the first chapter on the sea monster.

Kshunsui
December 30, 2009, 02:25 PM
when shanks visited white beard, he raises his haki, people with a hight level make people faint, that state marco the only 2 confirmed users are luffy and hankoc, against the boa sisters was stated that king haki could make people unconciously obey you, haki mean spirit, or will,
While inexperienced users are restricted to intimidating one being or blindly knocking out any with weak wills around them, those with more expertise can focus Haki into physical attacks or even pick out individuals in a large group to knock out

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Haki

joshua019
December 30, 2009, 02:31 PM
HOW do you know that they have king haki? The only assumption you're going on is that Luffy has kings haki, and when he uses it, people faint. It's possible, maybe even likely, that Shanks and Rayleigh have haoshouku haki, but until we know more about the effects of haki, you can't just make assumptions like that.

i think shanks has it but rayleigh might only have a over develop haki.....

monkey D luffy
December 30, 2009, 04:40 PM
when shanks visited white beard, he raises his haki, people with a hight level make people faint, that state marco the only 2 confirmed users are luffy and hankoc, against the boa sisters was stated that king haki could make people unconciously obey you, haki mean spirit, or will,

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Haki

it was never explicly said that king's disposition can make people obey you, also that wiki is by no means proof to anything as anyone can change what it says. also we dont know nothing on haki as of yet and its purely guessing so the discussion on haki is so absurdly pointless its not even fun anymore, people should just drop it, at least until next chapter when i suspect we will learn at list a bit on haki so we dont have to guess anymore

k-dom
December 30, 2009, 05:46 PM
OFFCOURSE IT WILL CAHNGE THIGNS- THEY BROADCASTED IT AROUND THE WORLD! AND IM DEFINATE LUFFY WAS SHOWN!


It's only broadcasted in Shabondy. We don't know how long it takes for the news to be spread from there.

it was never explicly said that king's disposition can make people obey you, also that wiki is by no means proof to anything as anyone can change what it says.
then, you should correct it, if there is something wrong. That's how it becomes more reliable.


also we dont know nothing on haki as of yet and its purely guessing so the discussion on haki is so absurdly pointless its not even fun anymore, people should just drop it, at least until next chapter when i suspect we will learn at list a bit on haki so we dont have to guess anymore

I agree with you but I'm not sure we will learn something, we may have some additional reaction (in particular from Garp or Sengoku) but I don't expect much more.

junhojung
December 30, 2009, 06:17 PM
I think everybody is forgetting something.
Does everybody remember when Luffy was thrown in water? (Arlong!:eyeroll)

His ability was still activited after he was in water!!! (his neck could still stretch!)

Thus, we could conclude that Marco is still in fact change because his fruit is also Paramecia!

jeffrey91
December 30, 2009, 06:33 PM
I thought seastone only weakens the df-user.
If it also cancels the df-user's ability, then why don't they use seastone bullets :P.

k-dom
December 30, 2009, 07:12 PM
The thing with Marco is that with the seastone handcuff, he cannot use the phenix ability to regenerate anymore
Also the effect of seastone/water is different between paramecia and the 2 other types. For Zoan and Logia you are not able to use your other form so basically, it cancels completely your devil fruit power

jeffrey91
December 30, 2009, 07:16 PM
The thing with Marco is that with the seastone handcuff, he cannot use the phenix ability to regenerate anymore
Also the effect of seastone/water is different between paramecia and the 2 other types. For Zoan and Logia you are not able to use your other form so basically, it cancels completely your devil fruit power

So why don't they shoot with it :P (for logias)

abc1233
December 30, 2009, 07:18 PM
So why don't they shoot with it :P (for logias)

don't argue with oda's awesome logic :p

White Silver King
December 30, 2009, 07:42 PM
make people faint is the special ability that only the kings haki have.Why? Because after Luffy used it the kujas said that this ability is the kings disposition.If it is another typ why are they say it to 100 %

No, knocking people out is a general ability of anyone's Haki, Kings or not. The Boa sisters knew he had King's Haki because he knocked out almost everyone, probably close to 1000 people, except for extremely talented Haki users but he was still able to knock out most the Kuja and they are not weak willed people like the ones Rayleigh knocked out, they were all experienced Haki users.


Thus, we could conclude that Marco is still in fact change because his fruit is also Paramecia!

No, Marco ate a Zoan fruit.

YamFrie
December 30, 2009, 08:06 PM
I thought seastone only weakens the df-user.
If it also cancels the df-user's ability, then why don't they use seastone bullets :P.

Seastone is expensive... That is why.

Alanim
December 30, 2009, 08:27 PM
I would like to see marco use that extra cuff slot on a admiral to take them out, I actually foresee this happening.(as in being cuffed, and then maybe shot?)

frontaLobotomy
December 30, 2009, 09:50 PM
^ That's possible. In fact, that's very possible. Which Admiral gets nullified though? And will it turn in to one of those knife dance/fights like in the Michael Jackson - Beat It video? xD

White Silver King
December 30, 2009, 10:29 PM
Seastone is expensive... That is why.

Well they coat the bottom of all their ships with it so I'm guessing they have enough money to make some bullets for the higher ups.

jinsomnia
December 30, 2009, 10:53 PM
this is probably off topic. Dragon/revolutionary army is fighting the world government. now, does world gov = marine? it doesn't seem so, since marine only do grand line? im not sure, but the world gov is govern by the the 5 old man is it?

craziii
December 30, 2009, 11:10 PM
I thought seastone only weakens the df-user.
If it also cancels the df-user's ability, then why don't they use seastone bullets :P.

ID guards uses them :P man, when I read the discussion threads sometimes, make me feel like you guys are not reading the same manga as I am. that is one of the weakest part of this arc. if ID guards have them, why doesn't the marines at MHQ use them too? very bad oversight.

WIKI = nothing. we know shanks and rayleigh can make huge number of people who can't withstand their haki faint. when luffy did it at amazon lily, it was called KING haki.

so, what do shanks and raylaigh have? of course all of this is base on what is already shown in the manga it self. what else can we use to make guesses/predictions? never use opinions as facts.

msg
December 30, 2009, 11:43 PM
Is it possible that Marco is the first character to be Zoan, Paramecia and Logia at the same time or if not exhibits all those three types of properties.Think about it.He becomes or produce blue fiire.Can i say he's intangible?..become an animal..a mythical one that is or you can say its a peacock.Regenerative like a lizard with super fast healing power like wolverine (in a "phoenix mode"):amuse...Hmm dragon DF would be cool
Looking foward for pwngoat to pwn everyone in 2010 and oh world cup too..lol

*Advanced Happy New Year* everyone.:confetti.Well it's been a fun year..for me anyways.Time moves so fast, with a blink of an eye it's new year already and it's almost a decade of this 2nd millenium and i'm getting older and older.:p
Looking forward for 2010 one piece, endless debates, opinions, discusssions, arguments and other stuffs...:amuse

_AceOfSpades_
December 31, 2009, 12:15 AM
Is it possible that Marco is the first character to be Zoan, Paramecia and Logia at the same time or if not exhibits all those three types of properties.Think about it.He becomes or produce blue fiire.Can i say he's intangible?..become an animal..a mythical one that is or you can say its a peacock.Regenerative like a lizard with super fast healing power like wolverine (in a "phoenix mode"):amuse...Hmm dragon DF would be cool


No; I wouldn't put it that way, since he's definitely "just" a Zoan model Phoenix. The intangible part ain't quite true, but his DF power allows him to regenerate quite fast, that much is sure ^^'
A Zoan model dragon would be quite cool, but at least we've seen a Zoan model Rex ( or is it something else, I'm talking about Drake)
anyway, a happy new year from me as well.

elitefox
December 31, 2009, 03:06 AM
Happy New Year to :D

Marco might still able to move but he must get the keys as fast as possible.

k-dom
December 31, 2009, 04:13 AM
ID guards uses them :P man, when I read the discussion threads sometimes, make me feel like you guys are not reading the same manga as I am. that is one of the weakest part of this arc. if ID guards have them, why doesn't the marines at MHQ use them too? very bad oversight.
there is no reason why they don't use seastone bullet beside the fact that Oda does not want to use them. I suppose they would cancel the drama part of this arc. After all, it is much more cool to see Whitebeard being stabbed by a bunch of marines than being shot


WIKI = nothing. we know shanks and rayleigh can make huge number of people who can't withstand their haki faint. when luffy did it at amazon lily, it was called KING haki.

so, what do shanks and raylaigh have? of course all of this is base on what is already shown in the manga it self. what else can we use to make guesses/predictions? never use opinions as facts.

That is your opinion, it was not stated like that yet. In the translation of king haki their is the word colour so maybe, haki emits a distinctive aura that allows to recognise its type

monkey D luffy
December 31, 2009, 05:12 AM
then, you should correct it, if there is something wrong. That's how it becomes more reliable.


you should know i couldnt since no one knows what haki IS yet, we dont know its applications in battle and thats why wikia is not that reliable, once the manga explains even a bit wikia will be a legitimate source

ScratchmenApoo
December 31, 2009, 06:25 AM
Jozu's arm is cracking off... Marco has been shot by light beams... Whitebeard is dying... I think this will be a total annihilation of the Whitebeard Pirates... Even if Jozu can be unfrozen, his arm is still gone. The story needs a major twist to fix that.

_AceOfSpades_
December 31, 2009, 07:14 AM
Jozu's arm is cracking off... Marco has been shot by light beams... Whitebeard is dying... I think this will be a total annihilation of the Whitebeard Pirates... Even if Jozu can be unfrozen, his arm is still gone. The story needs a major twist to fix that.

agree about Whitebeard, but there is still hope for Marco and Jozu ... presuming Marco gets rid of the Kairoseki handcuffs and Jozu is a logia ~ they still could make it ... right? The best possible outcome I see is for Marco and Jozu to be saved and WB dying after the war, once he finished dealing with the island business, the islands he's protecting with his name and stuff ~ But I kinda doubt the timing will be that convenient ^^' I'm seriously worried about Whitebeard here. Not to mention Sengoku has yet to join the battle as well, that string-pulling bastard ...

Lord Rayleigh
December 31, 2009, 08:52 AM
but when dragon learns that his true son, luffy, is in the war, won't that change things?
And when Dragon learnt his son was a pirate that put his life in danger, do you think he decided to protect him ? Obviously not. Dragon will not come because Luffy decided to fight to free Ace : he let him live his own life and has accepted his will to become a pirate.
Ace's execution is a completely different matter. Ace has been sentenced to death and can't do anything despite what his feelings and will : he is not the master of his life anymore and he is going to executed. That's why Iva thought Dragon would not let such a thing to happen to his son. As Ace isn't Dragon'son, Dragon will not come.

gold349
December 31, 2009, 09:16 AM
Dragon has helped Lufy before its not far fetched that it could happen again. This war has been televised in Shabondy, its well known every were this battle to take place. Someone like Dragon or the revolutionary army not taking this opportunity to take care of WG would be dipsticks IMO, if Dragon doesn't come specifically for his son then for the revolutionary army own agenda/plans this would be something that they couldn't miss out on.

Black Lagoon
December 31, 2009, 09:26 AM
Dragon has helped Lufy before its not far fetched that it could happen again. This war has been televised in Shabondy, its well known every were this battle to take place. Someone like Dragon or the revolutionary army not taking this opportunity to take care of WG would be dipsticks IMO, if Dragon doesn't come specifically for his son then for the revolutionary army own agenda/plans this would be something that they couldn't miss out on.

the MHQ is not the only place with Marines presence, there are other points that I think are more important, because WhiteBeard said that he'll destroy it. :amuse

Lord Rayleigh
December 31, 2009, 09:37 AM
Dragon has helped Lufy before its not far fetched that it could happen again. This war has been televised in Shabondy, its well known every were this battle to take place. Someone like Dragon or the revolutionary army not taking this opportunity to take care of WG would be dipsticks IMO, if Dragon doesn't come specifically for his son then for the revolutionary army own agenda/plans this would be something that they couldn't miss out on.
Dragon will not come because Luffy is fighting there. Dragon never comes each time Luffy fights somewhere. The only time they met, Dragon helped Luffy in Logue Town because he was there at this moment BUT he never came to LT for Luffy.
And Dragon will not come for political interest either : Iva said himself that the revolutionary army will not take part in this war (before he understood that Ace was Dragon'son) : that's why he said he had to stay in ID until Dragon shows up.
That definitely leads us to think Dragon will not come in MHQ.

Toxic_
December 31, 2009, 09:37 AM
since the discussion about seastone anyone imagine a swordsman carrying a vial (or a number of vials) filled with sea water and before each major fight with a logia users he sprays it on his sword......or maybe the development of seawater grenades that covers the opponent and renders them defenseless for a moment............if people start imagining stuff like this it would make DF ability useless....

minimz
December 31, 2009, 09:38 AM
to answer the bullet thing, i'm pretty sure it'd be almost useless there, zoro was easily able to dodge normal bullets from the world nobles gun (which i assume to be of a good tier gun), without a df, and although he's strong, he is still a rookie, so it should be ok to assume that most of those who will make a difference are better than zoro, combined with the fact that seastone is said to be expensive, they would not be worth it

Twar
December 31, 2009, 10:01 AM
@Toxic_:

Oda has explained that seawater (or any other kind of water for that matter) only nullifies the DF powers when at least part of their body is submerged (waves and such examples of slight contact with moving water won't do much).

Now, if we were to take this fact as a basis, we could deduce that spraying your swords with seawater wouldn't do much.

It seems seastone is somewhat of an exception in this respect, though.

anime-addict
December 31, 2009, 11:43 AM
Don't forget ... there are two men who can unlock a sea stone with their abilities

Inazuma : who hasn't been shown yet ..
& Mr.3

don't you think one may help marco

frontaLobotomy
December 31, 2009, 12:09 PM
Mr.3 is too much of a coward to get that close to the front line, and Inazuma is still incapacitated no? Maybe if Buggy and the ID escapees advance it would be possible.

I also agree with Lord Rayleigh that Dragon won't go anywhere near Marineford, he has a revolution to start, and fighting with Pirates may not be the best way to get that message across. I do however believe that he will meet up with Robin after Tequila Wolf has been liberated, and will look to rendezvous with his nakama at the Sabody, while getting the opportunity to meet Luffy. Dragon may also mention the locations of some New World Poneglyphs.

jeffrey91
December 31, 2009, 12:15 PM
to answer the bullet thing, i'm pretty sure it'd be almost useless there, zoro was easily able to dodge normal bullets from the world nobles gun (which i assume to be of a good tier gun), without a df, and although he's strong, he is still a rookie, so it should be ok to assume that most of those who will make a difference are better than zoro, combined with the fact that seastone is said to be expensive, they would not be worth it

Thank you, I think that's the explanation.
And maybe the key that Luffy has can also be used for Marco n__n.

nalex94
December 31, 2009, 12:30 PM
to answer the bullet thing, i'm pretty sure it'd be almost useless there, zoro was easily able to dodge normal bullets from the world nobles gun (which i assume to be of a good tier gun), without a df, and although he's strong, he is still a rookie, so it should be ok to assume that most of those who will make a difference are better than zoro, combined with the fact that seastone is said to be expensive, they would not be worth it

right but theres a difference between zoro on SA and let say Whitebeard right now in MHQ. SA was nice a peacefull and fairly quiet and MHQ is a WAR ZONE. there are swords clashing and guns firing everywhere. it would be easy to shoot somone in the midst of war. zoro was already foucsed on charlos and could see the gun right away. WB may have his attention on someone or something else that a bullet could easily hit him.

White Silver King
December 31, 2009, 12:31 PM
WIKI = nothing. we know shanks and rayleigh can make huge number of people who can't withstand their haki faint. when luffy did it at amazon lily, it was called KING haki.

so, what do shanks and raylaigh have? of course all of this is base on what is already shown in the manga it self. what else can we use to make guesses/predictions? never use opinions as facts.

I'll say it again. HANCOCK AND LUFFY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WITH KING'S HAKI SO FAR!!! Rayleigh and Shanks are just powerful and experienced Haki users. Shanks knocked out maybe 2 dozen pirates and Rayleigh maybe MAYBE 100 regular old citizens who probably don't even know Haki exists. Luffy knocked out about 1000 people all of whom are experienced Haki users without even knowing it or even knowing he had that sort of power or even that Haki existed let alone he had it. Rayleigh and Shanks have been practicing for years and consciously made an effort to knock out those people.

BluePheasant
December 31, 2009, 12:49 PM
I'll say it again. HANCOCK AND LUFFY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WITH KING'S HAKI SO FAR!!! Rayleigh and Shanks are just powerful and experienced Haki users. Shanks knocked out maybe 2 dozen pirates and Rayleigh maybe MAYBE 100 regular old citizens who probably don't even know Haki exists. Luffy knocked out about 1000 people all of whom are experienced Haki users without even knowing it or even knowing he had that sort of power or even that Haki existed let alone he had it. Rayleigh and Shanks have been practicing for years and consciously made an effort to knock out those people.

i only saw Luffy knock out the 2 executioners, helmeppo and a random dude with his little haki burst , of course there were more but i dont think 1000 would have passed out. i still think rayleigh and shanks have kings haki but not yet been officially stated by the manga. we still dont even know what kings haki is yet to be fair.

gold349
December 31, 2009, 12:56 PM
the MHQ is not the only place with Marines presence, there are other points that I think are more important, because WhiteBeard said that he'll destroy it. :amuse

Marine ford has most/many important Marines at moment, famous Marines from all around Grandline/world have come here, WB said he'd destroy it, battle isn't decided on say so though. For the Revolutionary Army not take this opportunity, for them to stay away when the Marines could fall and be in the best of positions when it comes to them dealing with WG then I don't know how much good could be said about their general/strategist.


Dragon will not come because Luffy is fighting there. Dragon never comes each time Luffy fights somewhere. The only time they met, Dragon helped Luffy in Logue Town because he was there at this moment BUT he never came to LT for Luffy.
And Dragon will not come for political interest either : Iva said himself that the revolutionary army will not take part in this war (before he understood that Ace was Dragon'son) : that's why he said he had to stay in ID until Dragon shows up.
That definitely leads us to think Dragon will not come in MHQ.

exactly Luffy has only met Dragon once, he hasn't come running every time Luffy has been in battle or in danger, this isn't every other moment/time its the best of times for political reasons for him to come also Luffy other conquests he may not have known about this was televised for a while...if word has gotton to him about Luffy being involved here and not coming, I think to be extreme of him as a father...to think a 'sure victory' can be achieved over the Marines isn't worth it?, a chance such as this when they can take out most of the dangerous Marines they could ever face isn't worth it?...I think for both Luffy and his own political plans its the right time to throw him in.

abc1233
December 31, 2009, 01:19 PM
Dragon will not come because Luffy is fighting there. Dragon never comes each time Luffy fights somewhere. The only time they met, Dragon helped Luffy in Logue Town because he was there at this moment BUT he never came to LT for Luffy.
And Dragon will not come for political interest either : Iva said himself that the revolutionary army will not take part in this war (before he understood that Ace was Dragon'son) : that's why he said he had to stay in ID until Dragon shows up.
That definitely leads us to think Dragon will not come in MHQ.

I highly doubt dragon being in loguetown was just because of pure coincedence. He was seeing luffy off to the grand line where his real adventure begins. Also, iva said that dragon looks towards east blue in his free time and suggests that he misses luffy deeply.


i only saw Luffy knock out the 2 executioners, helmeppo and a random dude with his little haki burst , of course there were more but i dont think 1000 would have passed out. i still think rayleigh and shanks have kings haki but not yet been officially stated by the manga. we still dont even know what kings haki is yet to be fair.

he is probably refering to the incident with the kuja pirates. Still don't think it was 1000 people but it was still quite a lot of people.

ClinoJustu
December 31, 2009, 04:59 PM
Dragon helped Luffy in Logue Town because he was there at this moment BUT he never came to LT for Luffy.


Why do you say that ? Maybe he know that luffy will be there and he wanted to be there for see ,without luffy see him, because it's an important day for him :)

Youbba
December 31, 2009, 06:40 PM
It's the new year where I'm right now so happy new year everyone.
I'm sure that 2010 will be a great one piece year a haki's year.
About Dragon comming to the war, well the revolutionnary army main occupation is to free country from the WG control, AND what a fantastic chance they have right now, all the WG mighty fighter are in marinford fighting WB so the islands around the world are quite vulnerable, we know that a group of revolutionnary had already attacked the bridge where robin was sent by kuma, so we can suppose that others groups of revolutionnaries are doing the same things elsewhere. The right question in my opinion is what kind of man is Dragon is he a man who put strategic objectif before his family or a man who can sacrifice anythings to save his familly. IVA said that Dragon would try to save his son. And even if ace is not Dragon son, the whole world know that Luffy is in mainford right now, but imo Dragon will not be present in this war. We don't know the reasons and the circumstances behind Dragon presence in Logue Town, but I think when he become a revolutionnary facing his own father, and leaving his own son (remenber that Luffy didn't even know that he had a father) he choose his cause over his family. I'm not saying that Dragon don't love his son, this is not the point but I'm saying that he will do anything to win his war.
There are 180 countries in the WG the marines are the army of the WG, you won't succeed in a revolution by defeating the Marines but you'll succeed by taking control of the 180 countries in the WG, and thanks to this WB#Marines war this the best chance that the revolutionnary had ever have to secure their positions in the differents seas.

M.D.Ace
December 31, 2009, 11:56 PM
i cnt believe people stil think shanks and releight dont have kings haki. its stupid to think otherwise... remember in the ireland with only women, when luffy knocked people out, it was immediately recognised to be kings haki and same with at the war when he knocked out the people. so if just knocking people out alone allowed people to recognise the haki as kings haki, why wouldnt shanks and releighs one be recognised as it too

iKeno
January 01, 2010, 12:06 AM
i cnt believe people stil think shanks and releight dont have kings haki. its stupid to think otherwise... remember in the ireland with only women, when luffy knocked people out, it was immediately recognised to be kings haki and same with at the war when he knocked out the people. so if just knocking people out alone allowed people to recognise the haki as kings haki, why wouldnt shanks and releighs one be recognised as it too
Erm, maybe they could 'feel' it and distinguish between the diffrent haki types? That's pure speculation on how this haoshoku haki works :tem.

Lee-tyme7
January 01, 2010, 04:33 AM
This chapter was a blast! but it ended too soon. I wanna see what happen next.

Ilyes84
January 01, 2010, 05:01 AM
Perhaps the Haoshoku is different from normal Haki just in sheer magnitude.

That is, any Haki user can make normal people (or animals) faint -but only the "King" can k.o. an entire arena full of Kuja warriors. As far as I remember, Rayleigh knocked out nothing but weak nobles (with a pirate from Law' crew stating that he almost lost consciousness). Meh.
Besides, I'm convinced that the Haoshoku Haki is something that only people who forge their own path can possess; perhaps even an "unofficial" requirement for entering the Yonkou ranks.

Ero-Sanji
January 01, 2010, 06:01 AM
That is, any Haki user can make normal people (or animals) faint -but only the "King" can k.o. an entire arena full of Kuja warriors. As far as I remember, Rayleigh knocked out nothing but weak nobles (with a pirate from Law' crew stating that he almost lost consciousness). Meh.


I don't think your right. I mean how come Jozu and Marco hasn't knocked somebody out, we clearly know that both of them has the ability of Haki but that doesn't leave them out of the subject. Boa Hancock who has been proven to have the Kings/emperors Haki hasn't knocked somebody out either...

As far as I know Luffy and Boa are the only ones that has been stated to have the kings/emperors haki, nuff said. The thing about Rayleigh is that he wasn't even trying, obviously. If he went all out the Straw hats(most of them) would have fainted too rending them defenseless and unable to escape. I myself do not think that Rayleigh has the kings/emperors haki BUT saying that it's all because he hasn't knocked an arena out is a bad argument imo. Shanks however is somebody who I'm certain of has the kings haki.

abc1233
January 01, 2010, 06:33 AM
I don't think your right. I mean how come Jozu and Marco hasn't knocked somebody out, we clearly know that both of them has the ability of Haki but that doesn't leave them out of the subject. Boa Hancock who has been proven to have the Kings/emperors Haki hasn't knocked somebody out either yet...

As far as I know Luffy and Boa are the only ones that has been stated to have the kings/emperors haki, nuff said. The thing about Rayleigh is that he wasn't even trying, obviously. If he went all out the Straw hats(most of them) would have fainted too rending them defenseless and unable to escape. I myself do not think that Rayleigh has the kings/emperors haki BUT saying that it's all because he hasn't knocked an arena out is a bad argument imo. Shanks however is somebody who I'm certain of has the kings haki.
corrected.

boa, rayleigh, and whitebeard have shown that they can hit logias so either it is a trait for kings haki or just haki in general

monkey D luffy
January 01, 2010, 10:23 AM
or you all can just stop this nonsense. non of us knows the true nature of haki yet and it insanely annoying to read all those comment that didnt change for almost 4 months. if you cant stop take it to the convo and leave this discussion to predictions, i dont want mods to close this thread for spamming off-topic crap

now for on topic discussion:
i believe that next chapter the tide will change once again and the pirates will overwhelm the marines and then we might see sengoku actually fighting finally.

ajaxsoccerjon
January 01, 2010, 12:18 PM
I think this may be the first time in any manga where I am worried about the main character. Sure in Bleach Ichigo's had his moments, but boom ten seconds later, healed. Naruto has the fox backing him up, so hes good too. Now Luffy is seriously injured and has more hormones injected into him so I fear the worst for him. I look at these hormones like any drug that you get and then crash and hes already on his second run. I mean I know he wont die but im worried he might have some SERIOUS backlash. Here's hoping he saves Ace and ends this soon! For his sake!

chess4
January 01, 2010, 12:24 PM
or you all can just stop this nonsense. non of us knows the true nature of haki yet and it insanely annoying to read all those comment that didnt change for almost 4 months. if you cant stop take it to the convo and leave this discussion to predictions, i dont want mods to close this thread for spamming off-topic crap

now for on topic discussion:
i believe that next chapter the tide will change once again and the pirates will overwhelm the marines and then we might see sengoku actually fighting finally.

i think the pirates are still at a huge disadvantage..........WB is hurt bad, jozu and marco are both down. the only thing luffy did was stop aces execution attempty for a second. he also has made himself a bigger target. the 3 admirals and sengoku are all still pretty fresh, and with the top fighters in the WB crew are out, there isnt anyone to take them on. invonkov could possible take one on, but i dont know. jinbei and the other commanders are busy protecting WB, who is injured but still is pretty tough.


luffy has the key to ace's handcuffs so he has to get to the platform. since sengoku is the only one on the platform now, i think he will be the next one to try and execute ace. i think garp will be inspired by the WB alliance for trying to save ace, and he will fight sengoku for there sake. if garp switches sides, then the pirates chances increase greatly.

ajaxsoccerjon
January 01, 2010, 12:29 PM
i think the pirates are still at a huge disadvantage..........WB is hurt bad, jozu and marco are both down. the only thing luffy did was stop aces execution attempty for a second. he also has made himself a bigger target. the 3 admirals and sengoku are all still pretty fresh, and with the top fighters in the WB crew are out, there isnt anyone to take them on. invonkov could possible take one on, but i dont know. jinbei and the other commanders are busy protecting WB, who is injured but still is pretty tough.


luffy has the key to ace's handcuffs so he has to get to the platform. since sengoku is the only one on the platform now, i think he will be the next one to try and execute ace. i think garp will be inspired by the WB alliance for trying to save ace, and he will fight sengoku for there sake. if garp switches sides, then the pirates chances increase greatly.

I really hope Garp changes sides and then dies honorably for his efforts. He is aiding in the attempt to kill his own (well, not really) grandson! What kind of a monster is he!

I dont ivankov can really do anything here, simply because his abilities are based solely on support abilities like Healing Hormones. I guess the only useful ability would be to change one of the guy shichibukai into a girl or vice versa (hahaha mancock)

Black Lagoon
January 01, 2010, 01:10 PM
I think this may be the first time in any manga where I am worried about the main character. Sure in Bleach Ichigo's had his moments, but boom ten seconds later, healed. Naruto has the fox backing him up, so hes good too. Now Luffy is seriously injured and has more hormones injected into him so I fear the worst for him. I look at these hormones like any drug that you get and then crash and hes already on his second run. I mean I know he wont die but im worried he might have some SERIOUS backlash. Here's hoping he saves Ace and ends this soon! For his sake!

that's why everyone keep talking about a possible timeskip (Luffy in Coma or something, because no one can endure what's happening to him ... even the main character).

chess4
January 01, 2010, 02:29 PM
I really hope Garp changes sides and then dies honorably for his efforts. He is aiding in the attempt to kill his own (well, not really) grandson! What kind of a monster is he!

I dont ivankov can really do anything here, simply because his abilities are based solely on support abilities like Healing Hormones. I guess the only useful ability would be to change one of the guy shichibukai into a girl or vice versa (hahaha mancock)

dont forget about his death wink and galaxy wink. he stopped one of kizaru's blast with it, and with his galaxy wink, he dealt a serious blow to kuma. invnkov is a beast
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that's why everyone keep talking about a possible timeskip (Luffy in Coma or something, because no one can endure what's happening to him ... even the main character).

i think luffy being in a coma after this war is fine, so we will get a chance to focus on the other strawhats growth and them getting back together

ajaxsoccerjon
January 01, 2010, 03:03 PM
dont forget about his death wink and galaxy wink. he stopped one of kizaru's blast with it, and with his galaxy wink, he dealt a serious blow to kuma. invnkov is a beast
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i think luffy being in a coma after this war is fine, so we will get a chance to focus on the other strawhats growth and them getting back together

Oh yeah totally forgot about death wink. It did come in really handy when escaping from Magellan, but other than that, I just dont see him being a great superpower like someone like jimbei.

A time skip? Eh. I guess why not. I just want to know how all the straw hats get back together. I see no way how they could.

Dekker
January 01, 2010, 08:59 PM
dont forget about his death wink and galaxy wink. he stopped one of kizaru's blast with it...
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When did that happen? I dont tink anyone stopped his laser yet. He deathwinked Luffy out of the blasts way.

iFrozt
January 01, 2010, 10:29 PM
ivankov could just give wb healing hormone, and adrenaline hormone, make wb turn into a monster

craziii
January 01, 2010, 11:29 PM
I 100% doubt OP will undergo a stupid timeskip. that is only for the useless mangakas who can't create anymore stories from his current setting.

if you are an OP fan, you will know, master oda (get it?) has got everything down, especially when it comes to story telling. he plans them like few hundreds of chapters ahead!

in 570, I want to see some king haki in use vesus all the logias on the marine side!!! bring it on, I am ready!

loveMachine
January 01, 2010, 11:50 PM
Isnt supernovas comming ?

ajaxsoccerjon
January 02, 2010, 12:18 AM
Isnt supernovas comming ?

Yeah thats right! Forgot about them! They should help i think luffy's side. But who knows how long it'll take them to get there i mean they just left and what about the gates of justice?! They aren't just going to open for them i think. I dont care if they show up really i dont see the hype like everyone else but meh.

Ichibugen
January 02, 2010, 03:23 AM
Yeah thats right! Forgot about them! They should help i think luffy's side. But who knows how long it'll take them to get there i mean they just left and what about the gates of justice?! They aren't just going to open for them i think. I dont care if they show up really i dont see the hype like everyone else but meh.
The gates of justice were already opened and never shown to be closed, and even if they werent Marinford/Marine Headquarters doesnt lie in the calm belt like Impel Down does, thus its entirely possible to go around the gates even if they were closed.

That said I dont think the Supernovas will show and infact I hope they dont. They are weaklings like Luffy, some even weaker than he is it woouldnt make sense for them to turn the tide of the battle. Not to mention the fact they were all completely shitting their pants about the thought of fighting an admiral and what they thought was a Shichibukai. It would make no sense for them to all suddenly think and feel differently.

OunknownO
January 02, 2010, 07:38 AM
The gates of justice were already opened and never shown to be closed, and even if they werent Marinford/Marine Headquarters doesnt lie in the calm belt like Impel Down does, thus its entirely possible to go around the gates even if they were closed.

That said I dont think the Supernovas will show and infact I hope they dont. They are weaklings like Luffy, some even weaker than he is it woouldnt make sense for them to turn the tide of the battle. Not to mention the fact they were all completely shitting their pants about the thought of fighting an admiral and what they thought was a Shichibukai. It would make no sense for them to all suddenly think and feel differently.

They are all weaklings and all of them are weaker then luffy... luffy took down two Shichibukai

Schabrak
January 02, 2010, 09:13 AM
They are all weaklings and all of them are weaker then luffy... luffy took down two Shichibukai
Here we go obviously trolling around? We all know under what circumstances those two got beaten, so don't start that old discussion again.

And "we" know they aren't weaklings, as they are the best new pirates the GrandLine has right now. Plus Luffy has no chance vs admirals right now too. //hangout material...