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Kaoz
May 06, 2010, 07:47 AM
Could you please elaborate then in which ways you think they are 'far worse'?

It's easier to adress specific points than all those characters in general.

javimgol
May 06, 2010, 01:46 PM
Could you please elaborate then in which ways you think they are 'far worse'?

It's easier to adress specific points than all those characters in general.

Inui, Momo and Kaidoh have very different Effects, so it's quite difficult to guess what are you exactly going to handle. Moreover, they have good benefits in doubles and, if I don't remember wrong, some of them form Tier Pairs.
And I don't want to talk about boosts...just look Inui's boost points (he was able to bit my Yagyyu, a 38 point player!), or Kaidoh's Effects.

It's nice to have such a wonderful players. What it isn't fair is that they cost the same as Akutsu and Hiyoshi, or only 2 points more than Krauser, for example

-Ken-
May 06, 2010, 03:33 PM
They have that benefit because they deserve it. It's been shown that it's like that in the manga. I got no idea for Akutsu, but I thought he's already got some special pair. I guess Atobe/Hiyoshi special pair might work.

javimgol
May 08, 2010, 04:35 PM
What is exactly "decisive match", sth that appears in several Feats?
Only a S1 with 2-2? Or it's also a D1 with you losing 1-2 or a S2 with 0-2 losing?

Kaoz
May 08, 2010, 05:08 PM
What is exactly "decisive match", sth that appears in several Feats?
Only a S1 with 2-2? Or it's also a D1 with you losing 1-2 or a S2 with 0-2 losing?

"Decisive matches" include all matches that would make one player win/lose the round, so all of those you described are decisive matches but not only for the player behind but also for the leading player.

I hope that made things clear, somehow I can't find the right words at the moment.

Bowser
May 09, 2010, 09:48 AM
D1 and S1 are always decisive and possibly S2 if you lose the two matches before that.

Sai_the_Shaman
May 13, 2010, 03:18 PM
I made a poll. Its form the last two characters of the low tier we need to round it to a nice round number. Everyone, please choose 2!

javimgol
May 13, 2010, 04:58 PM
Chitose's sis is awesome. Auto-win for her VS her brother and thief-bro
Arai is simply pathetic, we need him

Also, Kadowaki-Richard need a Formation (look at Old Season 2, they were with Sakuno the pillars of my team)

Zatono
May 13, 2010, 06:39 PM
Chitose's sis should definitely make the cut since she's basically a complete badass for taking on really old looking middle schoolers and winning a tennis tournament.

-Ken-
May 13, 2010, 06:48 PM
I'll won't vote for now, so many interesting character really, quite hard to pick.

Bowser
May 14, 2010, 11:07 AM
She got owned by Shishigakus player even though shes not in middle schooler yet.

I propose we make Horio the strongest char in the game and give him a feat "Two Years of experience", in which he drops all stats. Urayama would be awesome.

Sai_the_Shaman
May 14, 2010, 11:17 AM
yeah I voted for Urayama XD

No one cares for Michiru though...::sigh:: I guess I like him mainly cause he's fun to use in Form the Strongest Team.

Kaoz
May 14, 2010, 11:21 AM
Hmm I'd like to have Michiru, but I guess that's not gonna happen... as for Miyuki and Urayama, anyone is better than Horio...

Bowser
May 14, 2010, 12:18 PM
Don't underestimate his two years of experience!

Kaoz
May 14, 2010, 05:36 PM
Here we go, two new season 3 spoilers:

Matsudaira Chikahiko (7, 7, 8, 7, 32)
Serve and Volley; Right Handed

-Golden Magnum Serve [Serve]:
(1)Matsudaira's Power is boosted by 7 points, his Spin and Speed are boosted by 4 points each.
(2)In Singles, when the opponent's Power and Speed are both 11 or higher, this Serve is negated.

-Dash [Effect]:
Matsudaira's Speed is boosted by 4 points and he can activate an additional Effect.

-Dunk Smash [Effect]:
Matsudaira's Power is boosted by 5 points. Each of the opponent's stats drops by 1 point.


Nakagauchi Sotomichi (9, 9, 9, 9, 36)
Agressive Baseliner; Right Handed

-Overpower [Feat]:
As long as Nakagauchi's Power is higher than his opponent's, his Spin and Control cannot drop and his Serves/Effects cannot be negated.

-Service Mastery [Feat]:
Nakagauchi can activate a second serve in lieu of an Effect.

-Trick Serve [Serve]:
Nakagauchi's Power and Spin are boosted by 4 points each. The Opponent's Control drops by 2 points.

-Controlled Serve [Serve]:
Nakagauchi's Power is boosted by 2, Control by 7 points.

-Full Power Serve [Serve]:
Nakagauchi's Power is boosted by 10 points.

-Power Rising [Effect]:
The opponent's stats drop by 1 point each. When the opponent uses a Serve, that Serve is negated and all of the opponent's stats drop by 2 points instead.

javimgol
May 16, 2010, 10:49 AM
Here we go, two new season 3 spoilers:

Matsudaira Chikahiko (7, 7, 8, 7, 32)
Serve and Volley; Right Handed

-Golden Magnum Serve [Serve]:
(1)Matsudaira's Power is boosted by 7 points, his Spin and Speed are boosted by 4 points each.
(2)In Singles, when the opponent's Power and Speed are both 11 or higher, this Serve is negated.

-Dash [Effect]:
Matsudaira's Speed is boosted by 4 points and he can activate an additional Effect.

-Dunk Smash [Effect]:
Matsudaira's Power is boosted by 5 points. Each of the opponent's stats drops by 1 point.


Nakagauchi Sotomichi (9, 9, 9, 9, 36)
Agressive Baseliner; Right Handed

-Overpower [Feat]:
As long as Nakagauchi's Power is higher than his opponent's, his Spin and Control cannot drop and his Serves/Effects cannot be negated.

-Service Mastery [Feat]:
Nakagauchi can activate a second serve in lieu of an Effect.

-Trick Serve [Serve]:
Nakagauchi's Power and Spin are boosted by 4 points each. The Opponent's Control drops by 2 points.

-Controlled Serve [Serve]:
Nakagauchi's Power is boosted by 2, Control by 7 points.

-Full Power Serve [Serve]:
Nakagauchi's Power is boosted by 10 points.

-Power Rising [Effect]:
The opponent's stats drop by 1 point each. When the opponent uses a Serve, that Serve is negated and all of the opponent's stats drop by 2 points instead.

Who is Chitahiko, the goatee or his partner?

Bowser
May 16, 2010, 10:58 AM
The one that looks a bit like Matsudaira...goatee guys called Miyako I think.

javimgol
May 17, 2010, 01:57 PM
Silver Pair should be upgraded, costing more points of course, next season.

There should be the downgraded version of Golden Pair: if GP costs 50 points,Champion 60 (but they are pretty useful in Singles), and Funny Pair 46, they should cost 46 or 48. Just improve their Feats slighty and make Inducement Formation stop Effects too and impossible to be countered

Zatono
May 17, 2010, 02:31 PM
You know, it's funny with these pairs. In a decisive match, the Silver Pair would beat the Comedy Pair, but the Comedy Pair would beat the Champion Pair, and the Champion Pair would beat the Silver Pair. GP just beats all of them.

Kaoz
May 18, 2010, 02:33 PM
Following is a list of Special Pairs that we might implement next season:

Ryoga/Ryoma
Sanada/Atobe
Yamato/Tezuka
(Tezuka/Miyuki)
Fuji/Saeki
Fuji/Yuuta
Chitose/Tachibana
(Chitose/Miyuki)
Tachibana/An
Akutsu/Kawamura
Akutsu/Dan
Oshitari/Kenya
Marui/Akutagawa
Momoshiro/Kamio
Gin/Kawamura
Gin/Tetsu
Kamio/An
Ryou/Atsushi

If you think there is a pair that is either on the list but shouldn't be there or a air that isn't there but should be in your opinion, please make a statement.
Also I'd like you to give reasons why X pair should/should not be a Special Pair.

The bolded ones are the ones we already have this season.
As Miyuki already has 8 votes I put her on the list as well.

Zatono
May 18, 2010, 02:47 PM
I don't get Ryoma/Tezuka. I know they have that whole Pillar of Support thing going, but they're not THAT close to each other that they should be one of the special pairs.

-Ken-
May 18, 2010, 02:54 PM
Ryoma/Kin-chan><!!!

If Ryoma/Tezuka is there, they should be there too.

Zatono
May 18, 2010, 02:58 PM
I like the Ryoga/Ryoma pair since you're basically sacrificing two singles to completely demolish any team possible xD.

Kaoz
May 18, 2010, 03:04 PM
I'm not sure about Tezuka and Ryoma, I put them there because of the Pillar of Support, they came to my mind after I added Yamato/Tezuka.

Ryoma and Kintarou, not really, they both fail so much at Doubles, it's not even funny... I guess I should scratch Ryoma/Tezuka for the same reason.
[hr]

I like the Ryoga/Ryoma pair since you're basically sacrificing two singles to completely demolish any team possible xD.

That's a pair I could actually see working, Ryoga doesn't seem that obsessed with hitting everything as Ryoma and Kintarou are, so he might cover the rest of the court and finish the opponent or something, dunno.

Bowser
May 18, 2010, 03:15 PM
Yukimura/Sanada...they were gonna be a double pair until they had to face each other...

Atobe/Hiyoshi - captain pair?

Momo/Kamio - makeshift pair lol, against atobe/kabaji - and them two too

Sengoku/Akutsu might be interesting...

Other names I might include: not sure if they're already included...
Zaizen/Kenya
Kenya/Gin
kamio/kenya?
Mukahi/Hiyoshi
Shiraishi/Kirihara
Tachibana/Chitose

Zatono
May 18, 2010, 03:19 PM
I was thinking about Shiraishi/Akaya, but we might as well wait for the manga to debut what the Bible and Devil tennis players can do together.

Kaoz
May 18, 2010, 03:26 PM
Hmm, maybe I should give an explanation under which criteria a pair is considered as a Special Pair. First of all, the characters are not allowed to be on the same team (canon wise... another point why Ryoma/Tezuka doesn't work, why did I include them???), also the characters have to have a special relationship in form of siblings, rivals etc.

That being said, from the suggestions up until now, I'll include Momo/Kamio.

Zatono
May 18, 2010, 04:01 PM
Tezuka/Chitose - Come on, they're both Muga maniacs.
Kamio/An - Seems like Kamio wants to go out with her

I can't really think of any others that don't involve high tiers right now though.

Kaoz
May 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
Kamio/An will be considered, Tezuka/Chitose I can't really see, both of them are singles players and they don't really share that much backstory I think.

Also, high tiers are perfectly fine as well.

javimgol
May 18, 2010, 04:25 PM
Most of the pairs you have said are simply Tier Pairs, that have played one or more matches together, and they can do Formations

Special Pairs should be :

Brotherhood/family: Fujis, Ishidas, Oshitaris, Kisarazus, Chitose, Tachibanas...
Captain/subcaptain: Tezuka/Oishi and Sanada/Yuki, for example, even get an special chapter in the Finals
Specialists: Gin/Kawamura, Bunta/Jiro...
Simply Special Pairs: Atobe/Sanada, Miyuki/Tezuka, Momo/Kamio

Zatono
May 18, 2010, 04:34 PM
Then for specialist, Oni-Kintarou as extreme power players.

javimgol
May 18, 2010, 04:36 PM
Just noticed, Atobe's Ice World shouldn't be useful or shouldn't counter Tezuka Zone, no? Atobe found the secret of his spin or sth like that in the match, but was Ryoma's key to victory: no Tezuka Zone (Ryoma should have it, too!), no way to return the ball to your blind points

Sai_the_Shaman
May 18, 2010, 05:17 PM
Atobe later countered Zone with in insight later in the match. in essence zone was broken.

Bowser
May 18, 2010, 06:05 PM
KAIDOH YAGYUUU
[hr]
Momo/Sengoku? - omoshiro momoshiro
Fuji Tachibana? - you know, being friends and everything
Shishido/Oishi canon and Ootori Kikumaru pair...manga wise
Oshitari and Fuji!?! Tensai pair?
Shiraishi+Fuji, Kawamura+Gin...
Maybe...Zaizen Atobe pair for super arrogant pair?!

and finally
KAIDOH YAGYUUU
Feat: Straight or Curved? XD

Kaoz
May 18, 2010, 06:17 PM
I can accept Kaidoh/Yagyuu, but the others have a pretty vague base I think.

Bowser
May 19, 2010, 11:39 AM
They did have Oshitari and Kikumaru at one point but that was pretty bad.

What about a high schooler pair? Perhaps Akazawa/Mizuki pair?

Perhaps when you pair Momo with Kikumaru we could have a feat called Three Man Doubles or something or Fuji/Kikumaru...mehh. Is Saeki/Itsuki on the list?

Kaoz
May 19, 2010, 11:44 AM
Akuzawa and Mizuki are both St. Rudolph, so no.

As for the high schoolers, I thought about Kazuya/Oni but then again they were just shown practicing before their matches with Ryoma and Kintarou, I'm a bit undecided here.

Bowser
May 19, 2010, 11:54 AM
Jackal Kaidoh seem to be the same kind of people.
Trickster Trickster pair? Momo/Sengoku, Niou etc

What about...
KRAUSER KIRIHARA - KK pair
Hitouji with Momo or Kaidoh maybe XD
Mizuki/Renji XD data rape pair

Kaoz
May 19, 2010, 12:06 PM
Special Pairs are mostly this:

Brotherhood/family: Fujis, Ishidas, Oshitaris, Kisarazus, Chitose, Tachibanas...,

sometimes this:

Specialists: Gin/Kawamura, Bunta/Jiro...

and at rare occassions this:

Simply Special Pairs: Atobe/Sanada, Miyuki/Tezuka, Momo/Kamio

They are basically pairs that make sense canon-wise, yet don't have a support level. As thus they are not allowed to come from the same team (as then they could have paired up reguarly), also there has to be at least some background for them.

Bowser
May 19, 2010, 12:13 PM
Krauser Kirihara are specialist. They're a killing pair.

Kaoz
May 19, 2010, 12:18 PM
They only played each other ones though and the match was barely shown.
Jiro's tennis is inspired by Bunta's and Gin and Kawamura are rivals, so they actually have something besides being specialists going for them.

Zatono
May 19, 2010, 12:31 PM
Well, I don't think there are any more special pairs out there without it being a stretch, Chaos. I could be wrong though..

Kaoz
May 19, 2010, 12:50 PM
No, I think you are right, otherwise I probably would have put them up already.

I posted the list to make sure I didn't forget anything.

Zatono
May 19, 2010, 05:37 PM
Well, personally I think you've got more then enough special pairs. Any more then that and it wouldn't take much thought to get a good doubles team working with two random characters.

Kaoz
May 21, 2010, 12:35 PM
The poll to determine the last two low tier characters for season 3 is over and the Shin Prince of Tennis Fan League development team would like to thank everyone who participated, the polls final results are:

1.) Chitose Miyuki 72.73%
2.) Urayama Shiita 45.45%
3.) Horio Satoshi 36.36%
4.) Arai Masahi 27.27%
5.) Fukushi Michiru 09.09%
6.) Kuki Kiichi 0%
Ushida Tetsuo
Nishikiori Tsubasa
Aragaki Kouichi
Shiranui Tomoya

Lastly, as there where 11 people who voted but we are currently only 8 people in the league (+Sherlock which makes 9), I'd be fairly interested in who else voted in the poll.
If said person is reading this and wishes to participate in the league next season, feel free to send me a pm.
[hr]
For this round's spoiler, I'll present you the two characters you voted for low tier, enjoy:

Chitose Miyuki (1,2,1,1,5) 2
All-rounder; Lefty

-A Girl? [Tensei Feat]:
When playing Singles, all of the opponent's stats drop by 1 points each.

-Doroboo nii-chan[Feat]:
If the opponent is Tezuka, Miyuki automatically wins. (Singles only)

-Wall Practice [Feat]:
All of Miyuki's stats are boosted by 1.5 points.

Urayama Shiita (2, 2, 2, 2, 8) 2
All-rounder; Right handed

-Urayamashii de yansu! (You're Just Jealous)[Feat]:
If Shiita is but in reserves for this round, whenever a character with a lower base total surpasses a character with a higher base total by more than 5 points, The character with the lower base has his stats boosted by 1 each. This affects players on both teams.

-Rikkai Training [Feat]:
Shiita's stats are boosted by .5 points each for every Rikkai player on his team.

-Twist Shot [Effect]:
Shiita's Control and Spin are boosted by 1 each.

Zatono
June 03, 2010, 06:42 PM
Yanagi Renji (8, 10, 8, 10, 36) 30
Defensive Baseliner; Right Handed

-Master [Title Feat]:
Renji's 'Data Tennis' cannot be negated. Should 'Data Tennis' be used against him, it is negated.

Can't it still give him the point boost that it used to? Perhaps 1.5 points each instead? If I compare him to Inui, Inui is a lot better.

Sai_the_Shaman
June 03, 2010, 06:56 PM
I'm in favor of Master giving him a point boost.

Kaoz
June 04, 2010, 06:38 AM
I disagree on the point boost, I would however give him the ability to cut effects that can't be negated by 50%.

Bowser
June 04, 2010, 10:08 AM
Yanagi the ability to lower opponent - he mind rapes and his data efficiency is awesome. Point boost or opponent points cut I'd say.

Kaoz
June 04, 2010, 10:36 AM
The opponent already receives a drop in points when their technique is countered.

Zatono
June 04, 2010, 10:42 AM
Then how about a compromise Chaos? You can do the 50% on effects that can't be negated, but also give Renji one extra prediction, so he has 5 instead of 4?

Kaoz
June 04, 2010, 11:15 AM
Wouldn't a compromise rather be to give him the cut and raise the drop for a succesful negation to 1.5 instead of 1?

-Ken-
June 04, 2010, 01:31 PM
Cut on effect that can't be negate which is usually VERY powerful is more powerful than point boost hell lot of a time. There's no need to give anything else if he can cut the effect. Point boost is much less powerful. What would u want? Cutting Hoshi Hanabi in half or rather upping all your stat by 1 which = 4 or even 1.5 which =6?

It's not like Yanagi can do a thing against Kaidoh unpredictable snake/laser shot either. Kirihara power-up mode never engage Kaidoh, only aiming for Inui. However, The devil mode got crushed by Yanagi like it's nothing. I actually would just put Kaidoh at the high tier, looking from that.

Kaoz
June 04, 2010, 01:34 PM
I agree, when no one has any objections I will change it so that unnegatable abilities are cut in half.

Bowser
June 04, 2010, 01:48 PM
Kirihara power-up mode never engage Kaidoh, only aiming for Inui.
Only because Kirihara wanted to. He could've aimed at Kaidoh if he wanted to though.

-Ken-
June 04, 2010, 02:01 PM
Only because Kirihara wanted to. He could've aimed at Kaidoh if he wanted to though.

He could aim for Kaidoh, but Kaidoh was owning Renji who own him like hell in SPoT. I don't think he stand a chance against Renji from that. Unless Renji was about to go "I know you" in the next ball Kaidoh is about to hit, which I don't think is the case.

But I got to admit PoT power scale is as random as hell, meh.

javimgol
June 05, 2010, 07:23 AM
In that match, Kaidoh was stated to be invincible
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/357/12-13/
when he uses the two lasers. Two weeks later, Tezuka defeats him in the most humiliating way. Something isn't going right

Kaoz
June 05, 2010, 08:13 AM
It's PoT, what do you expect?

Apart from that, Tezuka shouldn't have to care about which of the two shots it is, he has TZone after all.

-Ken-
June 05, 2010, 01:29 PM
TZone doesn't care about the ball your opponent use, Kaidoh just face his worst match up, that's all.

That being said, the author probably meant Kaidoh to be SUPER high tier at that match, because I didn't think he plan for the 'Shin' (It's just my opinion, if someone think he does plan for it, please don't be insult).

Once Shin is out, he decided that some character that can have pages of development is nice way of getting good number of pages in, so he 'nerf' some characters.

Kaoz
June 05, 2010, 04:28 PM
As Jav pointed out, the Synchro version for season 3 doesn't really make sense, so here is a new one:


-Synchro [Aura]:
(1) This Aura cannot be activated manually, it auto activates if the Opposing Pairs Final Total is higher than this Pair's total and is not more than 30 points higher.
(2) This Aura only activates when both players of the Pair uses it.
(3) This Pair's Support Bonus is doubled. The opponents Speed drops by 10 points each.
(4) Players in this Pair cannot have their stats dropped. If the opposing pair would use a Feat, Effect or Aura to predict either player of this pair, that ability is nullified.
(5) This Aura cannot be negated by any other ability (except Yips) nor cant it be copied.

EDIT: Forgot to add, when this version is accepted there will be no Synchro Formation anymore.

Discuss.

Bowser
June 05, 2010, 05:22 PM
Actually, maybe putting numbers instead of having one big sentence will clear the wordings up.

Kaoz
June 05, 2010, 05:28 PM
What exactly do you mean?
The current Synchro is bad because the stuff that it originally should boost don't exist anymore.

javimgol
June 06, 2010, 11:54 AM
As Jav pointed out, the Synchro version for season 3 doesn't really make sense, so here is a new one:


I hate it just after the first line. Golden Pair is stated to be able to activate Synchro WILLINGLY. It's simply non-canonical Synchro not being just sth controlled and manual. I
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/369/08-09/
MAO it should be, in a the new league, a Quick Play or Continous
Something that shouldn't be manual is, for example,PoP.
I already sent you in a PM a version of Synchro

Kaoz
June 06, 2010, 12:06 PM
But the activation requirement is only that the opponent has a higher final total, it's nothing big.

Apart from that I explained before that some conditions have to be fulfilled in order to activate Synchro. I used the part of cannot manually activated to include an auto activation, in order to allow Oishi/Kikumaru to use their Effects.
You are right though, I think in that case this would be accrate?


-Synchro [Aura]:
(1) This Aura auto activates if the Opposing Pairs Final Total is higher than this Pair's total and is not more than 30 points higher.
(2) This Aura only activates when both players of the Pair uses it.
(3) This Pair's Support Bonus is doubled. The opponents Speed drops by 10 points each.
(4) Players in this Pair cannot have their stats dropped. If the opposing pair would use a Feat, Effect or Aura to predict either player of this pair, that ability is nullified.
(5) This Aura cannot be negated by any other ability (except Yips) nor cant it be copied.

javimgol
June 06, 2010, 12:12 PM
A new version of Synchro:


-Synchro [Continous Aura]:
1)The Support Bonus this Pair gains is doubled and cannot be negated in anyway
2)This Pairs Formation and Effects are negated and replace with Synchro Formation if they are not already using it.
3)This Pair's stats cannot be dropped.
4)This Aura cannot be negated by any other ability (except Yips, Hyper Yips, Purple Electric Aura) nor cant it be copied.
5) If the opposing pair would use a Feat, Effect or Aura (like Data Tennis or Saiki) to predict either player of this pair, that ability is nullified

-Synchro [Final Formation]
1)This Formation can only be used by a Pair that has a Tier Level of 5 or higher and is using Synchro.
2)The Opponent's Speed is dropped to 0 and their Effects and Auras (with the exception of Yips, Hyper Yips, Purple Electric Aura,Ten'imuhou and Black Aura) are negated.
3)If by some means, a pair would be able to use this formation without having Synchro, this formation is negated.


A bit different than Chaos':
- Aura and Formation are separated things, and of course, you can not choose any effect apart of Synchro. Why? While in Synchro, Golden Pair didn't anything apart of fllyinG: neither Australian Formations, Moon Volleys, Kikumaru's Steps...
- Aura doubles the Support Bonus (to give a boost that can not be copied by sth like Hyakuren, for example), and protects Golden Pair for stats dropping. Ace Pair Feat, that have all the Level 5 Pairs, avoid his effect or auras to be countered.
-Formation is a copy of Koori no Sekai (Yips was too much). It's the most similar reaction I've seen of the rivals of Golden Pair after they become Super Saiyan

Zatono
June 06, 2010, 01:09 PM
I still don't understand why Data Tennis in general can't be used on them, especially Inui's. Also, Synchro formation shouldn't negate effects or auras at all, considering that we saw Neo Scud serve working fine against Synchro, I don't mind speed dropping to 0 though. It seems like their opponents were just frozen in place so...

Kaoz
June 06, 2010, 01:15 PM
Synchro was only really shown in one chapter, so we can't really say what it prevents and what not. Data Tennis not working is a presumption of us after everyone said that it is impossible to say who will hit the ball.
Maybe Renji/Inui pair could do something against it by simply covering all possibilities in some way, dunno about that.

I am against lowering Speed to 0 as Shishido caught up to a few balls iirc, simply because of his running speed.

Bowser
June 06, 2010, 01:24 PM
If you're swinging simultaenously, theres no way you can predict the chance who would hit it. Unless you're like; Kikumaru hits it 6/10 times. Oishi hits it 4/10 times. Therefore, Kikumaru has a 60% chance of hitting it. I dont think Syncro works like that.

I also am of the belief that Syncro doesnt negate effects - that's like saying Syncro can return Tezuka Phantom/Zone. HOW?!


Numbering Solution:

-Doubles Loser [Feat]:
When playing Doubles, Echizen cannot activate any Effects or Auras and his stats as well as the stats of his partner are halved. The stat halving is negated when Ah-Un Formation is used.

We could make it
1) When playing Doubles, Echizen cannot activate any Effects or Auras.
2) His stats as well as the stats of his partner are halved.
3) The stat halving is negated when Ah-Un Formation is used.

This could get rid of the wording problems we're facing (except it would take a lot of space)

And you know when we pick, how fair would it be if say if you get a double player in the middle tier - you bugsy the partner so say: 8th person chooses Kikumaru. Then he will also get Oishi so when its his go, its skipped cause he already has Oishi. Cause lets face it, theres no point having one person with Kikumaru and the other with Oishi right? Otherwise, splitting up pairs will do both players no good right?

And it wouldn't really give you much of an advantage in picking players either.

Zatono
June 06, 2010, 01:28 PM
I am against lowering Speed to 0 as Shishido caught up to a few balls iirc, simply because of his running speed.

I thought that was because of his amazing reaction time, and not his running speed, because then someone like Kenya probably wouldn't have too much trouble returning the balls.

Kaoz
June 06, 2010, 01:40 PM
If you're swinging simultaenously, theres no way you can predict the chance who would hit it. Unless you're like; Kikumaru hits it 6/10 times. Oishi hits it 4/10 times. Therefore, Kikumaru has a 60% chance of hitting it. I dont think Syncro works like that.

I also am of the belief that Syncro doesnt negate effects - that's like saying Syncro can return Tezuka Phantom/Zone. HOW?!


Numbering Solution:


We could make it
1) When playing Doubles, Echizen cannot activate any Effects or Auras.
2) His stats as well as the stats of his partner are halved.
3) The stat halving is negated when Ah-Un Formation is used.

This could get rid of the wording problems we're facing (except it would take a lot of space)

And you know when we pick, how fair would it be if say if you get a double player in the middle tier - you bugsy the partner so say: 8th person chooses Kikumaru. Then he will also get Oishi so when its his go, its skipped cause he already has Oishi. Cause lets face it, theres no point having one person with Kikumaru and the other with Oishi right? Otherwise, splitting up pairs will do both players no good right?

And it wouldn't really give you much of an advantage in picking players either.

As for the data pair part, I thought maybe they could somehow cover the court so well that regardless where the ball is hit they can reach it but meh.

My version has no negation besides for prediction stuff.

That's what you meant with numbering, I see. I agree on it.

As for the picking, I have to say no, it would basically guarantee the first person who picks in Mid to get GP, also Oishi and Kikumaru aren't bad on their own. Furthermore I plan to have a short trading period before the season starts, so you can trade them around if you want.


I thought that was because of his amazing reaction time, and not his running speed, because then someone like Kenya probably wouldn't have too much trouble returning the balls.

Even if it's reaction time, the point of reducing Speed to 0 is just wrong as it would symbolize that the other player can't do anything.
Also I suppose Kenya could indeed return some of the shots, just like Kintarou could. I suppose that a -10 is enough as it drops most player's Speed to 0 anyway and the few who have a chance are left with 3 or 4 Speed.

Zatono
June 06, 2010, 01:54 PM
The -10 to speed sounds good Chaos, but just don't let it nullify Data Tennis. If you let Renji cut it down by 50% since it cannot be negated, and allow Inui to assign his probabilities to it, I think it'll be fine.

javimgol
June 06, 2010, 01:55 PM
Synchro doesn't make Golden Pair able to return Rai or defeating TPhantom. It's only that makes your rival so scared that he can not use it, it's pretty simple. I see it as a mix of the reaction the rival has after Koori no Sekai and Yips

And Synchro appear in TWO matches, no one. And it was pretty well explained VS Hyotei, but in the Finals we discover they are able to use it willingly, not only when they are in a pinch
If you don't want to reduce the Speed to 0, make "The Opposing Pair's Speed and Control are halved", as we have in current Formation.

Jackal, the God of Speed, the 4 lungs man, who could reach every fuc**** ball, only could make terrified faces when Golden Pair score them 5 games in a row, and was unable to return anything. But Shishido could return it.
Why? Is Shishido faster? I don't think so. The Synchro VS Hyotei was the first one. The second one was "trained", because we know they have made progressions in it, like activating it willingly.It's just like Muga in Ryoma, first natural VS Kirihara and then controlled VS Sanada

Bowser
June 06, 2010, 02:02 PM
Golden Pair: Let's discover the infinite posibilities of Doubles!
Sanada: ?
Tezuka: Hmm...-Tezuka Zone-
Golden Pair: -o_o-
Sanada: -Stands in front of Tezuka, Spams Rai, no aftereffects-
Game and Match! Tezuka, Sanada pair!

The end.

Kaoz
June 06, 2010, 02:04 PM
Tezuka wouldn't be scared by Synchro because he'd simply use TZone to hit the ball, Sanada could warp himself with Rai, he wouldn't be scared either. Jackal might be fast (though not as fast as Kenya I think?) but his mindset isn't the greatest. Maybe it could be said it works against players with base X or lower.

Apart from that, I said it was shown in one chapter, not one match (vs Rikka it was barely shown).


EDIT: why am I ninja'd that often lately...?

javimgol
June 07, 2010, 06:39 AM
Golden Pair: Let's discover the infinite posibilities of Doubles!
Sanada: ?
Tezuka: Hmm...-Tezuka Zone-
Golden Pair: -o_o-
Sanada: -Stands in front of Tezuka, Spams Rai, no aftereffects-
Game and Match! Tezuka, Sanada pair!

The end.
No proofs of that (and yes, I don't have proofs of the opposite)

Kaoz
June 07, 2010, 11:16 AM
Well, let's say it is highly likely that Tezuka could and would be able to use Tezuka Zone against Synchro and that Synchro doesn't have an answer to it.

I think if I had to choose between facing a Synchro Pair and a Rai spamming Sanada, I would take the Synchro stuff, at least you can return their shots somehow, even if it's difficult.
[hr]
Next try, this time Sai's version though he wants to confirm things first:


-Synchro [Quick Play Aura]:
1) This Aura is negated when less than two players of the Pair use it.
2) The support Bonus this Pair gain in Doubles is doubled
3) This Pair's stats cannot be dropped
4) If using this Aura, the pair is forced to use 'Synchro Formation' as their formation.
5) This Aura cannot be chained from any other Effect or Aura
6) This Aura cannot be copied or negated

-Synchro Formation [Formation]:
1) This Formation cannot be used by any pair unless they have 'Synchro'.
2) Should a pair have an ability to allow them to use any Formation, this Formation is exempt from that unless they have 'Synchro'.
3) The Opposing Pair has their Base Speed drop to 0 (i.e. Shishido still gains his Teleport Dash boost, but his base becomes 0) and any Effect that does not add a minimum of 7 points to the Opposing Pair's total is negated.


Another option would be to make Synchro a Lv 5 Aura again with auto activation like in my version. As GP is the only Pair that has archieved Synchro (at the moment, I'm sure Sp will follow sooner or later), this is probably not the best idea, just throwing it out there.

Bowser
June 07, 2010, 11:35 AM
I'd say, close all loopholes, make Syncro a golden pair thing. you could make it a final aura, when the pairs total is lower than the opponents pair, syncro activates - since both times it was shown it was match point to opponent.

So if the boost becomes 0, and then he uses Teleport Dash, he gets that boost right?

Kaoz
June 07, 2010, 11:39 AM
We do close loopholes we can find.

As for the general Synchro I just wanted to throw it out as a possibility, I wouldn't really want it as long as the manga doesn't say anything else.

To answer you question: Yes.

As for the rest, you can get such a version by combinig the ones we posted on this page I think, we just have to decide for one.

Sai_the_Shaman
June 07, 2010, 12:37 PM
I'd say, close all loopholes, make Syncro a golden pair thing. you could make it a final aura, when the pairs total is lower than the opponents pair, syncro activates - since both times it was shown it was match point to opponent.

So if the boost becomes 0, and then he uses Teleport Dash, he gets that boost right?

The second time it was shown however, they did that intentionally to give Ryoma time to prepare for Singles 1. At that point it was shown that GP could go into synchro when ever they wanted. This is why I made it a quick play aura. they can activate it at what ever point they want. I was thinking of some way to make synchro give a bigger boost depending on when it was activated. but still working that out in my head.

Zatono
June 07, 2010, 01:06 PM
I was thinking of some way to make synchro give a bigger boost depending on when it was activated. but still working that out in my head.

Here's my idea. The user can choose whether or not to manually activate Synchro, and if you decide to manually activate synchro, you get all of this.


-Synchro [Quick Play Aura]:
1) This Aura is negated when less than two players of the Pair use it.
2) The support Bonus this Pair gain in Doubles is doubled
3) This Pair's stats cannot be dropped
4) If using this Aura, the pair is forced to use 'Synchro Formation' as their formation.
5) This Aura cannot be chained from any other Effect or Aura
6) This Aura cannot be copied or negated

-Synchro Formation [Formation]:
1) This Formation cannot be used by any pair unless they have 'Synchro'.
2) Should a pair have an ability to allow them to use any Formation, this Formation is exempt from that unless they have 'Synchro'.
3) The Opposing Pair has their Base Speed drop to 0 (i.e. Shishido still gains his Teleport Dash boost, but his base becomes 0) and any Effect that does not add a minimum of 7 points to the Opposing Pair's total is negated.

However, if the user decides to let Synchro Auto Activate...then the conditions for auto activation should be a difference of at least 30 points(maybe a difference of 40, since GP isn't that great) but the support bonus will triple (maybe even quadruple) instead of double.

Also, Synchro Formation will drop their base speed to 0 as well, but all effects/auras will be negated, even if they cannot be negated.

So basically its a risk depending on whether or not you want Synchro to activate absolutely last.

javimgol
June 07, 2010, 02:12 PM
I completely disagree about an auto-activating Synchro, even with bigger benefits. That was simply the way they achieve it.
Right now, we know that Synchro can be activated when they want, just like Momo does a Jack Knife when he wants. It's exactly the same as Ryoma with Muga, first auto-activated VS Kirihara, then dominated VS Sanada (don't let the anime confuse you).
In fact, the first Synchro, the "Auto-activated", was worse, because Silver Pair were able to return a few shots. The second Synchro we saw, VS Rikkai, didn't permit their rivals to stand a chance.
I still defend my version of Synchro (it avoids Golden Pairs to use other Effects, but they cancel more Effects)


-Synchro [Quick Play Aura]:
1)The Support Bonus this Pair gains is doubled and cannot be negated in anyway.
2)This Pairs Formation and Effects are negated and replace with Synchro Formation if they are not already using it.
3)This Pair's stats cannot be dropped.
4)This Aura cannot be negated by any other ability (except Yips, Hyper Yips, Purple Electric Aura) nor cant it be copied.
5) If the opposing pair would use a Feat, Effect or Aura (like Data Tennis or Saiki) to predict either player of this pair, that ability works, but can not cancel Synchro.

-Synchro [Formation]
1)This Formation can only be used by a Pair that has a Tier Level of 5 or higher and is using Synchro.
2)The Opponent's base Speed is dropped to 0 and their Effects and Auras are negated, even if they cannot be negated; with the exception of Yips, Hyper Yips, Purple Electric Aura,Ten'imuhou, Koori no Sekai and Black Aura.
3)If by some means, a pair would be able to use this formation without having Synchro, this formation is negated.

Zatono
June 07, 2010, 04:00 PM
My way gives you a choice of auto activation or manual activation though...and I'm pretty sure the Champion Pair returned a couple shots as well.

http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/369/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/370/01/

javimgol
June 08, 2010, 02:06 PM
My way gives you a choice of auto activation or manual activation though...and I'm pretty sure the Champion Pair returned a couple shots as well.

http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/369/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/370/01/
They returned a serve...IMAO it's a bit different
Our ideas are pretty similar. It's only that I want to show that they can not use anything apart of Synchro, but they cancel more Effects.

Kaoz
June 08, 2010, 02:08 PM
In the second one, Bunta also returns a normal shot.

javimgol
June 08, 2010, 04:09 PM
In the second one, Bunta also returns a normal shot.
Didn't see it :tem

Kaoz
June 08, 2010, 04:11 PM
On the theory that Tezuka doesn't have trouble with Synchro when using Zone, and our agreement on the fact that Synchro should lower Speed, I'd like to add to Tezuka Zone that Tezuka's Speed cannot drop.

javimgol
June 09, 2010, 04:26 PM
About Synchro:
We all agree that:
-Aura boosts his Support Bonus
-Aura avoids stats dropping and being predicted
-Formation drops rival's points
-Formation cancel opponent effects

We should only discuss
-Autoactivating . I completely disagree about this.
-If they can use more Effects, Auras or Formations. I disagree ,due to manga canon, and right now, Kikumaru can use Split Step + Synchro. But one of the best points of GP is the Golden Pair Feat that doubles partner's Effects, if they won't use Effects, it's useless again.
-The stats that drops Formation. I would prefer 2.5 each, it's easier than complicating us with base or not Speed or halved or not Control and all of that
-The limit of the effects it cancels (as I said, I would make them stop everything except Koori no Sekai, PoP, Yips, Hyper Yips, Purple Electric, Black Aura)
-If they have lost the all benefit of doubled points in a decisive match (like the others Level 5 pairs), and get sth they already had (Auras and Effects can not be canceled), they deserve a similar boost. Maybe a new Golden Pair Feat (previous gives 10 points and doubles Effects): if they play in D1, the Suport Bonus is doubled (all of the matches they have played in the series, 6, were in D1),


Silver Pair need an upgrade, IMAO, in both cost and quality

Kaoz
June 09, 2010, 04:38 PM
I still don't think there should be a Synchro Formation. That small part we had in the Formation can easily go into the Aura as well, then they couldn't use any Formation while using Synchro, I don't see the problem here.

Apart from that, I think Sai's version of reducing Speed and the amount of Effects cancelled is acceptable. As it says they need to add at least 7 Speed, things like Jackknife are negated as well. Maybe unnegatable Effects could be negated when they don't boost by at least 10 or something?

Furthermore, I think it would be a possibility to let them use Effects and make Synchro auto activating in that case. Maybe you can argue like that, if you select Effects instead of Synchro, they are "forced" into Synchro at some point like in the Hyoutei match (does that make sense?), otherwise you can select Synchro manually and use it from the start. In case one it'd be a Counter Aura, in case two a Continous Aura.

Zatono
June 09, 2010, 06:30 PM
We should only discuss
-Autoactivating . I completely disagree about this.

-If they can use more Effects, Auras or Formations. I disagree ,due to manga canon, and right now, Kikumaru can use Split Step + Synchro. But one of the best points of GP is the Golden Pair Feat that doubles partner's Effects, if they won't use Effects, it's useless again.

-If they have lost the all benefit of doubled points in a decisive match (like the others Level 5 pairs), and get sth they already had (Auras and Effects can not be canceled), they deserve a similar boost. Maybe a new Golden Pair Feat (previous gives 10 points and doubles Effects): if they play in D1, the Suport Bonus is doubled (all of the matches they have played in the series, 6, were in D1)

I don't get whats so bad about auto activation if it lets you use your effects, AND you don't have to choose auto activation. Also, could you point out where Kikumaru used both his signature step and synchro? I just looked at the Synchro matches and unless I missed it, it wasn't there. Maybe I really did miss it though.

Also, I don't get your logic behind GP getting another boost in your third point. Why do they deserve a similar point boost?

Sai_the_Shaman
June 09, 2010, 10:34 PM
I've read my volume 17 over and over again (Hyoutei vs. Seigaku) and this is the revised version of Synchro I've come up with.



-Synchro [Quick Play Aura]:
1) This Aura is negated when used by only one player of the pair.
2) The Support Bonus this Pair gain in Doubles is doubled
3) The Pair using this Aura cannot use a Formation
4) This Pair's stats cannot be dropped. Any ability the Opponent uses that would attempt to drop this pair's stats drops the Opponent's stats instead.
5) Should any Opponent try to use a prediction to affect the Pair using this Aura in anyway, that ability is negated and nullified.
6) The Opposing Pair has their Base Speed drop to 0 and any Effect that does not add a minimum of 7 points to the Opposing Pair's total is negated. The Opponents cannot prevent the drop or cut the drop in any way.
7) This Aura cannot be chained from any other Effect or Aura
8) This Aura cannot be copied or negated


I decided on the reverse stats drop (point 4) because of the idea that when the opponent attempts to use his ability to drop GPs stats and they're unaffected it just kills their concentration and motivation. Kinda like how yips works. That should give Synchro the boost it needed from the previous versions.

I have another idea for doubles I'll need to flesh out with chaos. Basically I'm thinking of moving Covering and Strategy to Tier 2 and 3 respectively. For tier 4 and 5 I'm thinking of doing pair based special feats based on the pair puri list that separates Doubles into different types.

So for example, GP and Comedy are considered Synchro Pairs. GP will lose out here since they get no boost. but I'm thinking of making an auto activate version of synchro that'll activate for Comedy Pair in a decisive match.

Silver Pair was considered a Leader/Follow type. Here we can make a feat that in a decisive match that every time the leader (in this case Shishido) gets a boost, the follower (ootori) gets a boost. Or something like that.

Champion Pair is an Equal Footing Type and they can have something that boost highest stats further or something.

Inui and Renji are Mutual Trust type, they can have something for that.

the list of types is here: http://community.livejournal.com/fanbook/26149.html

Just throwing out some ideas.

Oh also I think Shouji's sharp observation drop should be innegateable.

Sherlock Holmes
June 09, 2010, 10:47 PM
Might as well make a single complaint:

Niou's illusion shouldn't be possible to be negated. Also, he should be able to copy Title Feats because...That's kind of one of the points of his illusion in the manga. The fact he has the same presence as the person he is copying. So the person feels like he is playing against that person. And Title feats are basically that feeling of pressure the person emits so...Yeah.

Also, I like that idea of basing the special pairings on the tenipuri section, and I'm for moving covering to tier 2.

Sai_the_Shaman
June 10, 2010, 12:53 AM
One more Note, Jiro is currently able to beat Bunta in Singles...That needs to be remedied since Jiro is the one who admires Bunta for his awesome volleying skills and is implied not to be as good as Bunta.

javimgol
June 10, 2010, 08:27 AM
I've read my volume 17 over and over again (Hyoutei vs. Seigaku) and this is the revised version of Synchro I've come up with.



-Synchro [Quick Play Aura]:
4) This Pair's stats cannot be dropped. Any ability the Opponent uses that would attempt to drop this pair's stats drops the Opponent's stats instead.
6) The Opposing Pair has their Base Speed drop to 0 and any Effect that does not add a minimum of 7 points to the Opposing Pair's total is negated. The Opponents cannot prevent the drop or cut the drop in any way.



4) That wouldn't affect Fuji or Kirihara, because their stats can not be reduced?
6) It will affect a 25% of the or sth like that Effects

Kaoz
June 10, 2010, 03:25 PM
-Synchro [Quick Play Aura]:
1) This Aura is negated when used by only one player of the pair.
2) The Support Bonus this Pair gain in Doubles is doubled
3) The Pair using this Aura cannot use a Formation
4) This Pair's stats cannot be dropped. Any ability the Opponent uses that would attempt to drop this pair's stats drops the Opponent's stats instead.
5) Should any Opponent try to use a prediction to affect the Pair using this Aura in anyway, that ability is negated and nullified.
6) The Opposing Pair has their Base Speed drop to 0.
7) When an opponent that had his Speed lowered by (6) activates any Effect that adds less than 7 points to that player's Speed, that Effect is negated. This Part is negated when an opponent's Speed is 7 or higher.
8) This Aura cannot be chained from any other Effect or Aura.
9) This Aura cannot be copied or negated.

This is the final version of Synchro, until the manga shows it again (or we get balance issues for some reason).

The opponent's Effects are negated when his Speed is either below 7 or he doesn't add at least 7 points to his Speed with the Effect. Furthermore, when a character has more than one Effect, the one that boosts Speed is activated first in that case.

As for the stat drop, Kirihara is the only one who's stats cannot drop, Fuji's Feat was redone for this season.


Apart from that, Covering and Strategy become Level 2 and 3 Feats, Levels 4 and 5 get Pair-specific ones as Sai suggested.

Zatono
June 10, 2010, 03:39 PM
Well...at least that Synchro looks less crazy then the original season 2 one. Being extremely specific about everything definitely helps.

So, does the picking start soon?

Kaoz
June 10, 2010, 03:43 PM
Yes, Sai and I wanna do the Lv4&5 Feats, I'll post the picking order later though and the picking itself will start on monday at the latest, when we are done before that earlier of course.

javimgol
June 10, 2010, 03:53 PM
Final text of Synchro doesn't let very clear if to avoid the cancel is necessary have 6 points of speed AND OR add 7 points of more

Kaoz
June 10, 2010, 03:59 PM
Final text of Synchro doesn't let very clear if to avoid the cancel is necessary have 7 points of speed AND OR add 7 points of more

Fix'd

and both works. If a character can add 7 or more Speed with one Effect, that Effect works normally. Alternatively, if said character already has 7 or more Speed (through Feats or Effects that added that much before) his Effects work as well.