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Freezer
January 06, 2010, 11:08 PM
http://thumbnails25.imagebam.com/6270/79a45762693529.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/79a45762693529/)

Sakigake!! Otokojuku
By: MIYASHITA Akira
Genre: Action, Martial Arts
Serialized In: Weekly Shonen Jump
Scanlated By: Ardneh (http://mangahelpers.com/s/ardneh)
RTS (http://mangahelpers.com/m/sakigake-otoko-juku)

Otokojuku - a private school for juvenile delinquents that were previously expelled from normal schools. At this school, Japanese chivalry is taught through feudal and military fundamentals. Similar to an action film, the classes are overwhelmed by violence. Only those who survive it become true men.
[hr]
First of all thanks to StrangerAtaru for translating and to ardneh for editing. Now recently i became really obsessed with this manga (maybe because i like old-school manga and because i don't read any other manga as of now, i mean i read Souten No Ken, Jojo and few other, but the releases aren't that fast, so that's what i meant) and i have many thoughts and questions about this manga. So let the bombardment start! The questions and thoughts are random, so don't expect some strict order.

SPOILERS AHEAD, IF YOU HAVEN'T READ UP UNTIL CHAPTER 125 DON'T READ!!!


MY THOUGHTS AND CONCERNS ABOUT THE MANGA:

1. I found several key elemets to this series: one guy sacrifices himself, one guy uses his ultimate technique, every secondary character "dies" while the main four is unbeatable. Along with the obvious weaknesses of this manga as i listed - "dying characters" then coming back, secret techniques, last sacrifices, one more such is the surrounding in which characters fight... I found this element to be of great importance in this manga - the battlefield on which characters fight (like when Hien owned Togashi in the rope battle, Manjumaru's technique vs J, etc.).


2. So far the best and most interesting part i found was the Kyokara... tournament. Maybe even Hien, Raiden, Gekkou and Date were way cooler as enemies (unlike Majimaru for example, never liked the guy, wtf some mohawk mastered the strongest kenpo). I think that secondary characters like the Shitentou or whatever they're called needed a background (or most of the characters in fact, heck we don't know anything about anyone's partents). I find strange the fact that almost every character is a japanese (i know, it's a japanese manga and such, but japanese guys mastering various chinese martial arts is too much for me).

3. When reading the Rasetsu vs Date fight i felt that it was a total rip off from the Manjimaru vs J fight (i'm talking about their similarities on a damage level). Also Senkuu's technique is a ripoff from Gekkou's. Sucks... We already have rip offs in such a short time...

4. It's really cool to read reference about the ground on which the characters are fighting or about their fighting style, but i think the author shouldn't have created so many. Maybe because i read volume after volume, but it just doesn't feel right.

5. I also found several plotholes: when Hien fought with Doug... and the guy ended up hanging from the ladder, and he grabbed it with one hand instead of two. Also when Raiden died Date showed his emotions, while when Hien died Date didn't even comment on it! And he wasn't moved by spoiler Gekkou's death too! Maybe it was only once to show that Date has feelings, but felt awkward.

6. One more typical thing i noticed for this manga is the "i-know-your-technique" syndrom. It happens REALLY often, and knowing that Momo knew that style that throws something and then manipulate the person was a total shock. It didn't make sense. Another thing - characters' traits change A LOT from time to time, which isn't very professional (Dougantetsu's character for example).

7. When the unicycle guy came it wasn't fair to have Senkuu fight him, because i think the fastest of all the fighters is either Manjimaru or Date, it didn't maky any sense. The tenchou gorin fights have become really boring and predictable, it's either the good guys get crushed and in the last moment win or take a complete victory, or the enemy wins with a complete victory.



QUESTIONS PART:

Why did Edajima lift the ban of Akashi?

Why was Jaki so big (he used a technique, how, that part wasn't explained too well)?

Can someone explain more that throwing thing again (Momo vs the rorourenkai manager or something)?

StrangerAtaru said that in chapter 102 there's a reference to Hokuto No Ken, which is?

Does anyone else think that Araki copied his ideas for the ripple thing from this manga (not sure if there are any other mangas that used some kind of similar idea before Otokojuku)?

Again not sure if Hnk 2 was published at that time, but maybe the Shura guy's skills (the one that fought with Falco) were copied from Sakigake Otokojuku (i mean the burrying underground thing)?

edited for info

StrangerAtaru
January 07, 2010, 09:06 AM
Thanks for starting the thread, Freezer, considering it is long overdue. (though not really expected since...well it is a series that ended close to 20 years ago and is sort of a forgotten Jump classic. I can answer a few questions right now but I highly, highly doubt it will answer for everything that exists in the series.



First of all thanks to StrangerAtaru for translating and to ardneh for editing. Now recently i became really obsessed with this manga (maybe because i like old-school manga and because i don't read any other manga as of now, i mean i read Souten No Ken, Jojo and few other, but the releases aren't that fast, so that's what i meant) and i have many thoughts and questions about this manga. So let the bombardment start! The questions and thoughts are random, so don't expect some strict order.

SPOILERS AHEAD, IF YOU HAVEN'T READ UP UNTIL CHAPTER 112 DON'T READ!!!


MY THOUGHTS AND CONCERNS ABOUT THE MANGA:

1. I found several key elemets to this series: one guy sacrifices himself, one guy uses his ultimate technique, every secondary character "dies" while the main four is unbeatable. Along with the obvious weaknesses of this manga as i listed - "dying characters" then coming back, secret techniques, last sacrifices, one more such is the surrounding in which characters fight... I found this element to be of great importance in this manga - the battlefield on which characters fight (like when Hien owned Togashi in the rope battle, Manjumaru's technique vs J, etc.).


First of all, it's really hard to explain the whole battle structure as to why characters and fights are how they are. I do admit the main characters for the most part (originally the main quartet of First-Years, but later the other Otokojuku allies) always seem to win their battles against the opponents. But I think in a way that the series isn't about who wins or who loses. Yes there is drama regarding the way matches go and it's obvious a lot of times in shonen of this era that "the good guy finds a way to win". I think more of the charm of Otokojuku is watching the battles and seeing how outlandish and crazy they become. It's more about "what sort of crazy martial arts abilities will emerge this time" or "how are they going to fight" or "what thing you wouldn't expect to be a fighitng ability be a fighting ability...and how is Miyashita is going to explain it" then about actual storyline...well OK, I do think that the Kyoura Daiyon Kyousatsu arc in itself is probably the height of the combination of fighitng and storyteling, but you really shouldn't expect too much more beyond that...which is logical considering it's from an era where these rules of storytelling are still being ironed out alongside series like Hokuto no Ken and JoJo.



2. So far the best and most interesting part i found was the Kyokara... tournament. Maybe even Hien, Raiden, Gekkou and Date were way cooler as enemies (unlike Majimaru for example, never liked the guy, wtf some mohawk mastered the strongest kenpo). I think that secondary characters like the Shitentou or whatever they're called needed a background (or most of the characters in fact, heck we don't know anything about anyone's partents). I find strange the fact that almost every character is a japanese (i know, it's a japanese manga and such, but japanese guys mastering various chinese martial arts is too much for me).

Some characters do get background later (I know one of the later fights does give some, for example, to Manjimaru...who I think is awesome myself considering that it's a super-powerful fighter and he has a mohawk and mask...and a fight I'll be getting to in the next couple volumes of translation adds more info on Hien), but it really isn't that necessary to enjoy things. If you find out anything, it's a bonus to all the wacky fighting.


3. When reading the Rasetsu vs Date fight i felt that it was a total rip off from the Manjimaru vs J fight (i'm talking about their similarities on a damage level). Also Senkuu's technique is a ripoff from Gekkou's. Sucks... We already have rip offs in such a short time...

There are many parallels but I never really say they are "rip-offs". A lot of times storylines are repeated but personally unless it occurs extremely close together (like I comment during one phase of the fight with Gandhara), I don't notice it. Besides, Gekkou's style is actually weirdly different between the Kyousatsu arc and the Paaren Seiha arc (though I really don't quite get why, it does make him more interesting and actually makes more sense considering his later revelation) and there really isn't any ripoff I can see in Rasetsu/Date. (for one thing: Date controlled the entire fight from the word go against Rasetsu, even in figuring how to eliminate Toramaru...while J had to struggle until he finally had the ability to realize how to fight on his field and could unleash his new trump card on Manjimaru)


4. It's really cool to read reference about the ground on which the characters are fighting or about their fighting style, but i think the author shouldn't have created so many. Maybe because i read volume after volume, but it just doesn't feel right.

It's part of the series' bizarre novelty I admit and gives it more charm. A lot of times manga seems to have new abilites and power-ups and such just popping in from out of nowhere, with no reference or no idea of where they came from. Miyashita pokes fun at it by creating his "references", which explain in a comedic fashion an explanation for literally every crazy or strange event or battle ability that suddenly pops into the series. Having a publishing company like Minmei document every last one of these and present them as they appear is probably what makes Otokojuku what it is.


5. I also found several plotholes: when Hien fought with Doug... and the guy ended up hanging from the ladder, and he grabbed it with one hand instead of two. Also when Raiden died Date showed his emotions, while when Hien died Date didn't even comment on it! And he wasn't moved by spoiler Gekkou's death too! Maybe it was only once to show that Date has feelings, but felt awkward.

Date showed feelings with the death of Raiden to show he had them in his own unique way. He doesn't have to do the same thing twice or it gets repetitive. This is just his means of manliness.


6. One more typical thing i noticed for this manga is the "i-know-your-technique" syndrom. It happens REALLY often, and knowing that Momo knew that style that throws something and then manipulate the person was a total shock. It didn't make sense. Another thing - characters' traits change A LOT from time to time, which isn't very professional (Dougantetsu's character for example).

Characters reveal new things all the time and sometimes they just seem to have mastered something similar to what an opponent may know. It isn't really used that often...and considering that many martial artists have studies many different styles and skills, it isn't suprising they have some things they don't want to reveal until the time comes. Besides, many times it is used more or less as a "just desserts" type of deal. (like Momo vs. the Rouroukan leader)


7. When the unicycle guy came it wasn't fair to have Senkuu fight him, because i think the fastest of all the fighters is either Manjimaru or Date, it didn't maky any sense. The tenchou gorin fights have become really boring and predictable, it's either the good guys get crushed and in the last moment win or take a complete victory, or the enemy wins with a complete victory.

While there isn't as much emotion or connection compared to the Kyousatsu or even the Paaren Seiha, I think that Miyashita keeps the series interesting in the Daibukai by amping up what was successful: fights and fighting styles that just get crazier and crazier. In a way, it's sort of a thing akin to Bo-bobo: neither have that much story aside from background, but they keep interest by making fights that just get wilder and weirder and make you wonder how the good guys are going to win week after week. You could get away with it back in the 80s compared to the shonen of today. Besides, who fights whom is all up to the mangaka and I think Senkuu's fight with Achilles was brilliant.

I'll get to the questions later.

Freezer
January 07, 2010, 12:01 PM
3. I meant that the technique that Rasetsu did (when fighting Date) helped him destroy the pillars which we already saw when Manjumaru fought with J and that didn't help Rasetsu to look unique.

About the "i-know'your-technique" - it happened when Date fought Rasetsu, skip one fight and you can see it again in the Momo vs Jaki fight, when Rouroukan manager fought with Momo and when Manjimaru fought with Achilles. There was also too little space between the Momo vs Rouroukan and Manj vs Achilles. Isn't that too much?

I also meant that the whole spinning thing with Gekkou and Senkuu looked almost the same in my opinion. And the disappearing ability of Rasetsu and Manjimaru kinda looked the same. Thanks for answering, it's really great to talk about this manga with someone who knows it well.

Ow have you read the continuation of Otokojuku or the spin-offs? Since you said it shouldn't be compared to the new shounen then does the new Otokojuku fix some of the problems? Is there a sales chart for the manga (i know it's not that popular, but still)?

StrangerAtaru
January 07, 2010, 03:25 PM
3. I meant that the technique that Rasetsu did (when fighting Date) helped him destroy the pillars which we already saw when Manjumaru fought with J and that didn't help Rasetsu to look unique.

They're not the same. Manjimaru destorys things with the side of his hands. Rasetsu with his fingers. Attacks of that sort are common regardless of how it's done in a shonen like this.


About the "i-know'your-technique" - it happened when Date fought Rasetsu, skip one fight and you can see it again in the Momo vs Jaki fight, when Rouroukan manager fought with Momo and when Manjimaru fought with Achilles. There was also too little space between the Momo vs Rouroukan and Manj vs Achilles. Isn't that too much?

I didn't say it was right or wrong. When done incorrectly, it stinks: see Date vs. Rasetsu and the "seeing in the dark" ability. The whole fight between those two was a mess after the initial phase and that part sort of just felt like the cherry on top. On the other hand, when done right, it actually ends up making the match more interesting and can be just as much a deterant as it is an advantage. When Jaki revealed he knew "qi" vs. Momo, I took it as a battle style that all of their level would know. But just because he knew "qi" didn't mean anything in the end, mostly because Momo used it to his advantage to shock Jaki at the end of the fight. The same goes for Momo vs. the Rouroukan manager: it was hinted from early on there was a third user of the technique and having Momo be it and punish him for killing Dokugantetsu was an appropriate end, particularly considering how Momo ended up doing it using the manager's stones instead of just revealing he had stones of his own. Not to mention that it was the only time Momo ever used it because, as he himself stated, he hates that style of fighting and more used it just to teach the Rouroukan manager a lesson.


I also meant that the whole spinning thing with Gekkou and Senkuu looked almost the same in my opinion. And the disappearing ability of Rasetsu and Manjimaru kinda looked the same. Thanks for answering, it's really great to talk about this manga with someone who knows it well.

But they weren't perfectly the same. While many techniques can be similar considering how many limitations that there can be, particularly using your own body, they aren't. For one thing, the only reason Gekkou was even able to use the spinning technique vs. Toramaru was becuase they were fighting in an ice arena. (that and, as I said before, it really isn't a typical fighitng style of Gekkou and he only used it in the Kyousatsu) If that fight took place on solid ground, I highly doubt Gekkou would use it. On the other hand (from the top of my memory which means it's probably wrong), Senkuu's ability can be used anywhere due to having a different style. I guess the best thing you can say is that many of the abilities, particularly the more novel ones, are more situational and aren't used unless everything is perfectly set up for them to use it.


Ow have you read the continuation of Otokojuku or the spin-offs? Since you said it shouldn't be compared to the new shounen then does the new Otokojuku fix some of the problems? Is there a sales chart for the manga (i know it's not that popular, but still)?

It's hard to say if they are popular but I do know of several series that are tied to Otokojuku, both spin-offs (like "Ten Yori Takaku" and the Edajima histoy one) and sequels ("Akatsuki!! Otokojuku"), but I can't say if I have the means (whether the manga themselves or just the will for the moment) to TL them or know if it fixes the problems of Sakigake!!

Freezer
January 07, 2010, 08:13 PM
(waits patiently for the questions' answers :P). Wow i guess you really love Otokojuku, i can't hear you say anything bad about it... I didn't mean to brag this whole time, it's a great manga, it's just too otokojuku. More so than the bizarreness of Jojo's bizarre adventure... Otokojuku's bizarre adventure?

StrangerAtaru
January 08, 2010, 08:48 AM
(waits patiently for the questions' answers :P). Wow i guess you really love Otokojuku, i can't hear you say anything bad about it... I didn't mean to brag this whole time, it's a great manga, it's just too otokojuku. More so than the bizarreness of Jojo's bizarre adventure... Otokojuku's bizarre adventure?

I can't say the series is perfect, considering I did point out various flaws prior (certain themes that repeat too close together like the ends of the Gyuuhou and Ryuuhou fights, fights like Date/Rasetsu which start alright but then get too ludicrous and ridiculous even for Otokojuku...I still can't forgive Date for claiming he forced Toramaru "to knock himself out...on purpose") but it just is so insane in some of what it does that you can't help but love it. In many ways it did introduce many concepts and ideas into modern shonen, such as a diversification of battle styles (I know I made comparisons before between Hien's Kakushi Senbon and some of the senbon abilities used in Naruto) and the insanity of combining together a "serious style" with all these wacky and comedic battle abilities. (heck, it's because of Bo-bobo, a series that easily can draw similarities to Otokojuku in the weirdness of it's own battle styles, that I even sort of came to notice and desire to check Otokojuku out). In some ways, you can probably put this series alongside JoJo and FoNS as the "holy trinity" of "real-style shonen of the 80s". (well compared to more "cartoony" style like DB or "bishonenous" like Saint Seiya)

Freezer
January 09, 2010, 01:10 AM
When rereading the volumes i found out that Manjimaru didn't have moustache during his fight with J? Btw Centaur vs Gekkou was priceless (so far the best fight in my opinion, Centaur was a beast, but Gekkou outmatched him). Didn't like Jagi vs Zeus that much (wtf Jaki used origamis :P). Talking about Jojo i think the best parts are 1 and 2. We had epic fights, GREAT art (Hnk influenced) and a moving story. Now it's gay (bishounen)? Btw i think that Wham's abilities might be stolen from Jaki (the whind technique). This is offtopic but i always wanted to know more about the above-vampire story. We were never told who were those creatures and why did they create the masks...

StrangerAtaru
January 09, 2010, 10:08 PM
When rereading the volumes i found out that Manjimaru didn't have moustache during his fight with J? Btw Centaur vs Gekkou was priceless (so far the best fight in my opinion, Centaur was a beast, but Gekkou outmatched him). Didn't like Jagi vs Zeus that much (wtf Jaki used origamis :P). Talking about Jojo i think the best parts are 1 and 2. We had epic fights, GREAT art (Hnk influenced) and a moving story. Now it's gay (bishounen)? Btw i think that Wham's abilities might be stolen from Jaki (the whind technique). This is offtopic but i always wanted to know more about the above-vampire story. We were never told who were those creatures and why did they create the masks...

Read pt. 1, somehow stopped reading pt. 2 around the point after Joseph fought the first of the Pillar Men. (think it was Santana...after that he met with the new Zeppeli and I haven't read since)

Favorite fights in Otokojuku...well, here's my list of mine (so far):
-Pretty much any fight Raiden gets into (his first fight with J and Enpou in particular, I hated his fight with Henshouki because his merciful nature was manipulated wrongly by that creep and the fake hand)
-Any fight with Togashi (from the idiot boxer in the America arc to Hien and Senkuu...every Togashi fight is just manliness to the epic extreme)
-Any fight with J (Momo, Raiden, Manjimaru...and of course, his annihilation of the Genseki-16)
-A few of Momo's fights, mostly his ones with Akashi, Eikei & Jaki
-Senkuu/Achilles (I just loved the strategy in this fight...and how can you go wrong with a guy on a unicycle?)
-Jaki/Zeus (I actually like this fight, considering it just is a stalemate all the way through to the end and the two are just that balanced opponents)

On the other hand, my least favorite fights:
-Date/Rasetsu (already explained that before)
-Hien/Dokugantetsu (I like how Dokugantetsu gets defeated but he just seems too much of a chatterbox compared to his fights with Togashi and later against the Rouroukan leader)
-Anything with Henshouki for the most part. (I like bits like J defeating him and the ability with the bats, but for the most part I just don't like Henshouki at all...and it's because of him that sort of ruins the momentum of epicness Gekkou/Centaur has)
-Date/Ryuuhou (except the dice scene and the part where Date uses Ryuuhou's hair as a brush, I really didn't like this fight at all, in particular how the way Ryuuhou is defeated is a repeat of the downfall of Gyuuhou)

Katatonia
January 09, 2010, 10:15 PM
My thesis of "Otokojuku" contains only 3 words... J DESTROYS EVERYBODY!

StrangerAtaru
January 09, 2010, 10:16 PM
My thesis of "Otokojuku" contains only 3 words... J DESTROYS EVERYBODY!

Yeah that works.

Freezer
January 10, 2010, 02:43 PM
Yo StrangerAtaru i'm almost finished with 138 so you'd better release new stuff :P. Wow joking great job and thanks again. I hope you'll answer my questions from before. I have the feeling that those minor fights are one big filler, Otokojuku isn't what it used to be for me... Btw i think there was this episode were a group of guys held a giant sword and tried to cut Kenshiro in Hnk. No thoughts about Manjumaru's moustache? Wow you stopped right after Santana? His introduction was probably one of the coolest things in the manga... Right after he's killed in the typical shounen style it's explainaed that he is the weakest of the pillarmen...

StrangerAtaru
January 10, 2010, 04:52 PM
Yo StrangerAtaru i'm almost finished with 138 so you'd better release new stuff :P. Wow joking great job and thanks again. I hope you'll answer my questions from before. I have the feeling that those minor fights are one big filler, Otokojuku isn't what it used to be for me... Btw i think there was this episode were a group of guys held a giant sword and tried to cut Kenshiro in Hnk. No thoughts about Manjumaru's moustache? Wow you stopped right after Santana? His introduction was probably one of the coolest things in the manga... Right after he's killed in the typical shounen style it's explainaed that he is the weakest of the pillarmen...

It's not my fault: things sometimes are hard for me to keep up with if I don't keep reminding myself to keep doing it. And yeah, I figure Santana was the weakest from what I've heard of Cars, AC/DC and Wham.

There really isn't anything minor about the tournament going on: every fight essentially is important and crucial to the series and is a chance for someone to show off. To tell the truth, you just have to be in the right mindset...but yeah, the series does lose a bit of it's emotional impact mostly after the Kyousatsu, that's actually true. (but as I said before: the fights make up for it)

And BTW: the last three chapters of Vol. 15 are currently up.

Freezer
January 16, 2010, 12:30 PM
In the anime they keep saying that J's from "Super Police Academy" ? Do they mention that in the manga? Also what's that: http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/816d952c65.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/) (it's clearly the Tenchougorin tournament, but i don't know three of the guys on the right - the one with the goggles, the one who looks like a clown with a helmet and the one with the spear)? Is that the leader of Gandhara right between Gemini and the Heart rip-off?

StrangerAtaru
January 17, 2010, 08:52 AM
In the anime they keep saying that J's from "Super Police Academy" ? Do they mention that in the manga? Also what's that: http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/816d952c65.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/) (it's clearly the Tenchougorin tournament, but i don't know three of the guys on the right - the one with the goggles, the one who looks like a clown with a helmet and the one with the spear)? Is that the leader of Gandhara right between Gemini and the Heart rip-off?

Super Police Academy? Actually in the manga, J (heck, all the Americans from that arc) is referred to being a student of "Annapolis", most likely making him from the Naval Academy.

And that looks like some sort of collectible trading cards from the Daibukai. As for those three on the far right: they probably appear way later in the arc...not sure.

Freezer
January 17, 2010, 06:01 PM
After all the negative things i said, actually i really enjoy the fact that we have 3 new students fighting for Otokojuku, that was a twist (still i wouldn't be surprised if Dokugantetsu, Eike and Henshouki were alive). I haven't read the chapter that reveals the other, but my bet is that they'll be related to Akashi (the second best 2nd years). Howcome the third years were revealed but not the second years? Actually i've been thinking about this scenario (though it's not very original) - it would be great to have a tournament where all of the good guys have to fight against eachother or at least have their evil counterparts (like evil clones or something). I always loved the evil counterparts in whatever cartoon or manga or anime i was watching/reading.

StrangerAtaru
January 18, 2010, 03:46 PM
After all the negative things i said, actually i really enjoy the fact that we have 3 new students fighting for Otokojuku, that was a twist (still i wouldn't be surprised if Dokugantetsu, Eike and Henshouki were alive). I haven't read the chapter that reveals the other, but my bet is that they'll be related to Akashi (the second best 2nd years). Howcome the third years were revealed but not the second years? Actually i've been thinking about this scenario (though it's not very original) - it would be great to have a tournament where all of the good guys have to fight against eachother or at least have their evil counterparts (like evil clones or something). I always loved the evil counterparts in whatever cartoon or manga or anime i was watching/reading.

1. One of those three who "dies" will return somewhere along the line in the "finals bracket".
2. The only second-year that matters is Akashi, the others (like Edogawa) are essentially losers
3. The "evil versions" of the characters...well, won't spoil it but something is close to that I read much, much later on.

Freezer
January 19, 2010, 06:37 AM
At which volume are you? SPOILERS HEAD!!!


I dared to take a lookt at volume 33 or so and they were still chasing Edajima's rival...

StrangerAtaru
January 19, 2010, 09:27 PM
At which volume are you? SPOILERS HEAD!!!


I dared to take a lookt at volume 33 or so and they were still chasing Edajima's rival...

There is some scene I saw in 33 (the second-to-last volume) of Hien fighting Date...but somehow in the final chapter of the Seven Tusks arc (when Edajima essentially destroys the entire series in progress), it turns out to be a copy.

As for why no new chapters...I've been busy and trying to work through Kinnikuman so Otokojuku has to remain on the backburner for a while.

Freezer
January 20, 2010, 12:37 AM
Hopefully now i'll get to read a chapter or 2 or 3 at most per day (when they do come) and i'll be able to enjoy this manga once again. Usually i don't like reading whole volumes or watch several episodes of a given anime one after another. But i don't know what happened with Otokojuku... After the Kyora i really felt that this is a godly manga and i basically read like the rest (couldn't stand waiting for ardneh's releases). Guy did a great job releases a chapter or 2 every day, but when he stopped that's when i flipped...

StrangerAtaru
January 20, 2010, 07:19 PM
Hopefully now i'll get to read a chapter or 2 or 3 at most per day (when they do come) and i'll be able to enjoy this manga once again. Usually i don't like reading whole volumes or watch several episodes of a given anime one after another. But i don't know what happened with Otokojuku... After the Kyora i really felt that this is a godly manga and i basically read like the rest (couldn't stand waiting for ardneh's releases). Guy did a great job releases a chapter or 2 every day, but when he stopped that's when i flipped...

Ardneh takes his time like all scanslators, it happens. We all have lives, me included.

BTW: Personal opinion of the series (so far):
-Intro Arc: A ton of fun (aside from Momo being a bit godly), short but fun fights with a few intense ones.
-Kyoura Daiyon Kyousatsu: Epic from start to finish. (essentially everything from the festival and the rugby game to the final battle of Momo/Date)
-Daiishin Paaren Seiha: Has some emotional moments (Togashi's story for the most part until it was thrown out halfway through), great fights, starts getting more gimmicky and had a couple snags (Date/Rasetsu)
-Daibukai: For the most part it's all gimmicky fights now with a bit of story or emotional parts here or there...not as epic but still a ton of fun and hilarious in the "what will they think of next" way.

Freezer
January 20, 2010, 08:58 PM
Okay. Ataru which is/are your favourite manga/s? I really like Fonts (Snk is good too, but something is missing...), Grappler Baki (SOO, Garouden), Guyver. What do you think about Berserk. There's something stopping me from reading the manga, i tried twice so far (maybe because the volumes are SQ - shit quality) with no result... I also started Jojo (hated it until recently because i always thought it was gay and the animals having stands was waaay too much) but part 3 started the downside of the series (alright maybe part 4). Have you read Battle Angel Alita? Ow i also read Riki-oh, but it made NO SENSE to me. It started really well (great art, Hnk inspired) but turned... I want to be able to read Cobra some day. Also should i start kinnikuman (teamkinniku is doing great job i guess but the letters are too small)? Ow i recommend you Blaster Knuckle - about some black nigger (because he's a nigger in the manga, not a black man at the time) with iron knuckle and boxing style with guns and stuff who battles monsters. It's kinda like berserk, but lasted for 3 or 4 volumes. Ow i also started Parasyte (kiseijuu) a while ago but didn't finish it (story was interesting though). Any thoughts about Gants? Only saw the anime and 1 volume i think after the events in the anime and it made no sense (the main hero got defeated by the alien in one of the showdowns, then the alien came in the human world? and then some guy who seemed to use magic abilities appeared and i dropped it).

StrangerAtaru
January 21, 2010, 08:30 PM
Okay. Ataru which is/are your favourite manga/s? I really like Fonts (Snk is good too, but something is missing...), Grappler Baki (SOO, Garouden), Guyver. What do you think about Berserk. There's something stopping me from reading the manga, i tried twice so far (maybe because the volumes are SQ - shit quality) with no result... I also started Jojo (hated it until recently because i always thought it was gay and the animals having stands was waaay too much) but part 3 started the downside of the series (alright maybe part 4). Have you read Battle Angel Alita? Ow i also read Riki-oh, but it made NO SENSE to me. It started really well (great art, Hnk inspired) but turned... I want to be able to read Cobra some day. Also should i start kinnikuman (teamkinniku is doing great job i guess but the letters are too small)? Ow i recommend you Blaster Knuckle - about some black nigger (because he's a nigger in the manga, not a black man at the time) with iron knuckle and boxing style with guns and stuff who battles monsters. It's kinda like berserk, but lasted for 3 or 4 volumes. Ow i also started Parasyte (kiseijuu) a while ago but didn't finish it (story was interesting though). Any thoughts about Gants? Only saw the anime and 1 volume i think after the events in the anime and it made no sense (the main hero got defeated by the alien in one of the showdowns, then the alien came in the human world? and then some guy who seemed to use magic abilities appeared and i dropped it).

Can we please keep those types of conversations out of a thread that is supposed to just be about Otokojuku?

Freezer
January 22, 2010, 04:06 PM
Okkay... When i started the topic it was meant to be about Otokojuku, but not ENTIRELY about it (the mod edited my topic - put a picture, wrote "[Complete]", etc). So i should start another topic just to ask you which are your favourite mangas?

dolpiff
August 20, 2010, 06:03 PM
we need moar chapters xD

StrangerAtaru
August 21, 2010, 09:03 AM
we need moar chapters xD

Unfortunately I'm a tad held up at the moment. I do want to finish the Daibukai arc...hopefully I'll still have time to do the Seven Tusks and the final arc, but it all depends on my scenario. (hopefully I'll have time in the next few days but I can't guarantee it)

So...any particular favorite fights?

Freezer
January 21, 2011, 12:32 AM
Yeah how about we discuss the LAMEST FIGHTS and THE BEST FIGHTS? (i'll have to re-read quickly the chapters again in order to answer). Ataru?

StrangerAtaru
January 21, 2011, 01:27 PM
Yeah how about we discuss the LAMEST FIGHTS and THE BEST FIGHTS? (i'll have to re-read quickly the chapters again in order to answer). Ataru?

Heh, it's all a massive blur (and I really need to review the whole series) but here are probably the fights I think are the most memorable off the top of my head (with the series nearly completely scanslated):

-A lot of Togashi's early fights, particularly the boxing match, Hien and Senkuu. (they just throw him away later because he just has his guts and brawling style...I never liked that)
-Most of Momo's fights: Akashi, Date, Eikei, Jaki, Pharaoh, Red Thunder, Gouki (his fight with J I'm torn about because of how Akashi stepped in to help develop his inner eye, his fight with the Gandhara leader...well, it involved snowboarding so let's not mention of it again, and...let's not mention the Gekkou fight with the Nazi either)
-Pretty much nearly all of J's fights were epic (Raiden, the first Henshouki fight with the candle, Manjimaru, the Genseki-ryuu, Hakuhou, Gobarski, the downtrodden boxer...probably the only one I can't think of real well for the moment was his fight with the Kokurenju leader with the snakes...but my favorite fights of J's were probably Manjimaru and Gobarski...and the Genseki massacre)

I guess I'll start with those.

Freezer
January 21, 2011, 01:42 PM
For some reason some of the most memorable i can think of are Gekkou? vs Centaur. Maan Centaur was godly. Guy was kicking a football ball with blades on it... Epic. And the unicycle guy that defeated Senkuu i think :D? It was hilarious but at the same time entertaining. And J vs the Black Boxaa. The fight was great and all, but maybe what made it even better was the relationship between those two, it was more of an emotional.

Gekkou vs the Giant Iron Ball :D

Worst fight - the guy that attached a spring on top of his head. Maan i swear i was really about to drop the manga. At that point every opponent that was introduced had to be accompanied by Raiden's sweat and comment that he has heard of that technique and that it was terrible, that it was the best etc. I WAS SO SO PISSED back then...

Generally speaking Date and Akashi's fights were epic.

Edajima vs the Quasimodo guy, maan Edajima bit him.

Edajima vs Hon! SOOO epic (probably most epic fight!!!)

Date vs the i-will-copy-your-style guy.

Jaki vs the chariot guy.

Togashi Genji's fights were sweet as well.

J vs Raiden, Togashi vs Hien, Toramaru vs Gekkou, Momo vs Date. Those were really interesting and their anime part was done really well accompanied by some creepy music that really made you feel the terror of the Sanmenken.

I think some of the most memorable opponents came from Pharaoh's side. The vinegar guy :D? The introduction to Pharaoh (his "clone" made of flies). The guy that was thought to have no head (who was on Otoko's side fighting him?). The bubble guy, the hypno guy... At least their design was cool, and before a fight they wore masks and such, they just looked badass.

Homo (Momo) vs the the Chinese guy with the armour, that was a cool fight!

We should make a list with rip-offs. Maan not only is Kennou a rip-off of Raoh, but if you remember Raoh wanted to be known as Ken-oh (get it Ken-oh - Kennou)... I remember the Heart rip-off, there were 2 Yuda rip-offs i think. Falco - Senkuu. One of the guys under Kennou used a style similar to Nanto Sei-ken. Who else? I'm sure there were others as well. That first year guy with the brim hat (again?) looks like Jotaro Kujo in some way.

Would want to read your review, but i know you're going to mention mostly its good sides. Maybe my expectations were too high...

StrangerAtaru
January 23, 2011, 07:11 PM
A few comments on what you mentioned of those fights (since I didn't get to those yet):

-Senkuu/Achilles is probably one of my favorite fights of the series and sort of the point Miyashita utterly goes anything goes with the fighting styles. I mean, the mere fact that Senkuu had to use an external source to defeat Achilles showed how unstoppable he was...not bad for a guy using a unicycle. Heck, except for maybe the Gemini fight, all of the Olympus fights were godly (well maybe not Henshouki/Centaur...but that set up the epicness of Gekkou's part, and Jaki/Zeus was just beyond insane)
-Also agree of all of the Edajima fights, particularly the Hon fight and even the one before it with the head-guy.
-Akashi's fights were for the most part good...the general in Ryouzanpaku was probably his best one though, but I also liked the one with the tennis player early in the Kokurenju section. I also liked the fight with the gunslinger in Alcatraz, but hated the marine part.
-Date I'm hit or miss on. He had some great fights like the okama who used the crows in Pharaoh Sphnix but some of them I really feel torn on. The final fight in the Daibukai with Shuuran was only awesome for the infamous bluff attack, though. Though he had some better fights early on like his one with Momo and some parts of the Paaren Seiha before Rasetsu started that stupid flying squirrel bit. And don't get me started on that mess with the female fighter...
-Wan Taaren vs.Kennou was boss, pure and simple. Sort of Taaren's version of Edajima/Hon.
-Can't forget some of Raiden's awesome fights, particularly the ones with Enpou and early in the fight with the Ryouzanpaku leader. (with the clone Raiden that was actually the three monkeys) I love those monkeys if you haven't gathered from my scripts.
-Worst fights...admittedly I agree that Manjimaru got a bunch of dummies after that awesome fight with J. (though I love the boomerang he hides in his mohawk) Also wasn't a fan of Toramaru's sumo fight with the first of the Khan brothers...and Hien/Dokugantetsu was ruined because they turned Dokugantetsu into a blabbermouth.

If we're going to talk of the sequel, though, I got a few interesting spoilers to mention having finally looked through the whole scans of Akatsuki:
-For the most part we get sons of all three of the former heads showing up: Momo's son at the start, Akashi a couple volumes in, and we even get Jaki's...amazingly Jaki remains dead. (but Akashi lives...go figure that)
-Some neat new fighters show up, probably the most notable are a guy who fights with geta...on his hands, and a couple who join up after a tournament arc: a kid who is modeled after Son Goku (the original from "Journey to the West", not DB's) and a hair-manipulator from Shinken Temple.
-Toudou shows up again and even has a few weird surprises, one of which is massive and can't be mentioned here.
-The first major arc involves some world tournament (which I sort of eluded at above)
-The second seems to involve some Shinken collector who works with Toudou and involves some fight with characters who are modeled after the 7 Luck Gods (the less said about Benten the better...) and then later the Sanmenken...sort of. (it's Raiden, Hien and Gekkou but...not...)
-The third involves what looks like some weird group who sucks away Edajima's life energy and turn him into a shriveled mummy and involves Otokojuku allying with Ryouzanpaku to save him. (there are some real WTF moments, particularly towards the end of this arc)
-The fourth is a really bizarre but cool one: it starts with a weird relay-race with Rakanjuku...and later becomes a battle involving facing off against new fighters from Pharaoh Sphinx, Rouroukan and Olympus before a final battle...on the moon.
-The last volume and a half returns to bizarro comedy-action (though more comedy than action compared to before) and has a massive revelation in the final volume.

Freezer
January 23, 2011, 08:17 PM
I don't dare click on "Show"...

Actually i was just reading Date/Rasetsu so i have a few questions:


Tomaru jumping into the sea of ignited oil was really cool.

Why did Edajima let Jaki do whatever he wanted again?

So why did Date let Toramaru get damaged, or why did he let Rasetsu catch him with the rings?

Rasetsu was in a way a chool character, because he was betting it all in his fight with Date, something that you don't see often from the villians. Besides he "gave up" his life at the end of his fight with Date.

T.Hawk - Leddo Thundda
Dhalsim - the Yoga guy
Chief of Kiba clan (Hokuto no ken) - Gobarski.

StrangerAtaru
January 23, 2011, 08:37 PM
I don't dare click on "Show"...

Actually i was just reading Date/Rasetsu so i have a few questions:


Tomaru jumping into the sea of ignited oil was really cool.

Why did Edajima let Jaki do whatever he wanted again?

So why did Date let Toramaru get damaged, or why did he let Rasetsu catch him with the rings?

Rasetsu was in a way a chool character, because he was betting it all in his fight with Date, something that you don't see often from the villians. Besides he "gave up" his life at the end of his fight with Date.


1. Date sort of wanted to handle Rasetsu on his own. Thus he faked his trouble with him so Toramaru would dive right in, get knocked out somehow to "save him" and thus save him all the trouble of dealing with Toramaru for the rest of it. Honestly though while I get why Date did some of what he did (not trusting Toramaru and probably trusting Gekkou to at least be enough for Eikei is my best bet), I still think it was cruel that he at least couldn't let Toramaru have maybe Baron Dino or a longer chance at Rasetsu. But then again...compared to J, Momo and even Togashi (who pretty much is so unpredictable and so much a loose cannon that no one can stop him even with his limited skill set), Toramaru is probably the least skilled of the Otokojuku fighters at that time since he tried to use a self-taught kenpou style instead of just a trained ability or, in the case of Togashi, unpredictable, wild guts.

2. I think Edajima just trusted Jaki's rule over the school enough to let him control things for as long as he did. We know Jaki is nothing compared to Edajima, but he's still strong enough to put down any other dissenting force that came his way. And for the most part until Momo's group started shaking the apple cart, he just kept things in a stable, strong condition that allowed for Otokojuku to appear as tough as it did, even if it wasn't tough enough to, say, have enough for a Daibukai appearance. (but still strong enough to appear in lesser tourneys like the one where Jaki fought Zeus the first time or the one Eikei annihilated by himself)

3. Rasetsu is just such a weird bird to me: I like his portrayl, but he always seems a tad off compared to the other 3rd years. He did have a lot of great moments like early in his fight with Date and his background story we hear when he fights one of the Ryouzanpaku leaders.

Freezer
January 23, 2011, 09:01 PM
Is Miyashita working on another project? I really wish you could answer whether Akatsuki is better or not, but i'll have to wait patiently when you do it one of these days...

And Atalu for the record, please don't give away spoiilers with your T-notes. I really like your comments, but saying that someone 's last fight ended just now and that for the rest of the manga he won't even land a punch doesn't really add to the enjoyment of the manga.

Just a minor offtopic. I'm not sure but maybe Ring Ni Kakero was the first manga that introduced some super-powered attacks and moves? What's your opinion on this? I'm asking cause i always thought that it's Hnk and DB that set the bar for really crazy attacks (like throwing energy balls, or fighting so fast that you can't see the chars moving).

Have you read Hakusho, if so what's your opinion of it, both anime and manga?

StrangerAtaru
January 23, 2011, 09:51 PM
Is Miyashita working on another project? I really wish you could answer whether Akatsuki is better or not, but i'll have to wait patiently when you do it one of these days...

And Atalu for the record, please don't give away spoiilers with your T-notes. I really like your comments, but saying that someone 's last fight ended just now and that for the rest of the manga he won't even land a punch doesn't really add to the enjoyment of the manga.

Just a minor offtopic. I'm not sure but maybe Ring Ni Kakero was the first manga that introduced some super-powered attacks and moves? What's your opinion on this? I'm asking cause i always thought that it's Hnk and DB that set the bar for really crazy attacks (like throwing energy balls, or fighting so fast that you can't see the chars moving).

Have you read Hakusho, if so what's your opinion of it, both anime and manga?

1. I don't try to spoil on Otokojuku. The problem is that sometimes it feels frustrating waiting for someone to fight again and they don't...that's why I do a bit of that in the notes.

2. No clue on Miyashita's latest works. I know he's still working on the Edajima origin manga but nothing else for the time being since Akatsuki ended. (he has done other series though...I remember that he did do one series for Playboy before Akatsuki started that some say somewhat is an alternate universe with Otokojuku characters)

3. I remember reading somewhere that Ring ni Kakero is sort of the beginning of the "modern action and sports" series in modern shonen. (at least in the Jump model) It's sort of the series that began having characters gain more and more absurd and super-human moves in the midst of their training and battles. Since the series started in '77, it comes way before the series that would start to take advantage and evolve it in their own way. (Kinnikuman being one of the first but later being taken by Toriyama and the rest...and in some way Kurumada further refining it through Saint Seiya)