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Kaoz
January 17, 2010, 06:52 PM
So, I made this thread out of various reason:
1. so that everyone can see which value the characters have, maybe trading will become easier through this.
2. I'm curious to see how this turns out
3. I'm slightly bored at the moment

I'm aware that the list I present is far from correct, so please feel free to make suggestions.

For starters, I'd propose this list:

SSS Tier

Mizuki
Irie
Echizen
Sanada
Kazuya
Oni
Yukimura

SS Tier

Niou
Renji
Shiraishi
Kintarou

S Tier

Yagyuu
Bunta
Tezuka
Atobe
Krauser
Hiyoshi
Fuji
Chitose
Tachibana

A Tier

Hitouji
Akutsu
Shishido
Wakato
Oshitari
Gin
Zaizen
Kaidoh
Oishi

B Tier

Kikumaru
Inui
Ryoga
Jackal
Sengoku
Kaneda
Momoshiro
Koharu

C Tier

Kenya
Billy
Kite
Jiro
Minami
Higashitaka
Kabaji
Kita
Nitobe

D Tier

Kamio
Saeki
Shinji
Ishida
Kawamura
Amane
Uchimura

E Tier

Yuuta
Gakuto
Richard
Tanishi
Akazawa
Ootori
Kai
Rin
Kevin
Kurobane

F Tier

Ryou
Reiji
Aoi
Atsushi
Sakurai
Shudou
Muromachi
Kiraku
Kajimoto
Itsuki
Chinen
Sakuno


I tried to take into account the character's strenght in singles, doubles as well as his cost.

-Ken-
January 17, 2010, 08:31 PM
I agree with Mizuki wholeheartly, he severely undercost, because his effect could be gamechanging, which is fine, but I still feel like he should cost more, nothing can be done this season through.

I actually look into my list because I want to see how my team stand

Echizen- SSS
Kintarou- SS
Rin- E
Koharu- A
Hitouji- A
Kawamura- D
Sakurai- F

I'm not sure that the gay pair deserve to be A rank, their record this season isn't exactly awesome, but that is just me.

Kaoz
January 18, 2010, 01:49 AM
I agree with Mizuki wholeheartly, he severely undercost, because his effect could be gamechanging, which is fine, but I still feel like he should cost more, nothing can be done this season through.

I actually look into my list because I want to see how my team stand

Echizen- SSS
Kintarou- SS
Rin- E
Koharu- A
Hitouji- A
Kawamura- D
Sakurai- F

I'm not sure that the gay pair deserve to be A rank, their record this season isn't exactly awesome, but that is just me.

Yeah, when I made Mizuki's Effect I expected it to be somewhat awesome but in the end it turned out a bit better than I expected.

Gay Pair is in A mainly because Hitouji is. Even though Gay Pair themselves don't have a good recordm Sherlock proved the stregnght of Voice Imitation. I think Koharu might be lower though, maybe only B or C tier.

javimgol
January 18, 2010, 09:58 AM
My team
Irie SSS
Auto win VS everyone in the League except Kazuya, costing 55 points. And if he plays Doubles, I am almost sure than him alone would beat Golden Pair (!)

Shiraishi S. And if I consider his cost,SSS
Why? He ties VS Kin-chan if he doesn´t activate Entaku Shot,and win VS Renji,Fuji, players who cost 4 or 5 points more. And he rapes the others with less points than him, including Nioh (Illusion os broken). In Doubles, he cancel the opponents effects.

Golden Pair SS
45 points means an 95% chances of winning in doubles. Great. The only bad points is that it makes my team more predictable

Kajimoto C
Several players who cost less points than him woudl defeat him. Reaching 26 points after effects it's not enough. And Captain's Pride is useless

Sakurai B. Considering his cost, S
Tactician is worderful. 17 points in doubles + 8 points (No Formation) or even +16 (if Australian Formation works). Costing only 5 points!!

Gakuto C
A joke character, but a bit better that he seems to be.

Conclusion: My team got a S. Awesome.

Other good-broken players:Niou, Kajimoto,Mizuki,Yagyyu,Krauser,Gin,Zaizen,Hiyoshi,Gay Pair,Billy,Kita and Nitobe

Bad players:Tezuka,Fuji,a bit Silver Pair,Ryou,Atsuhi,Richrad

Kaoz
January 18, 2010, 10:29 AM
My team
Irie SSS
Auto win VS everyone in the League except Kazuya, costing 55 points. And if he plays Doubles, I am almost sure than him alone would beat Golden Pair (!)

Shiraishi S. And if I consider his cost,SSS
Why? He ties VS Kin-chan if he doesn´t activate Entaku Shot,and win VS Renji,Fuji, players who cost 4 or 5 points more. And he rapes the others with less points than him, including Nioh (Illusion os broken). In Doubles, he cancel the opponents effects.

Golden Pair SS
45 points means an 95% chances of winning in doubles. Great. The only bad points is that it makes my team more predictable

Kajimoto C
Several players who cost less points than him woudl defeat him. Reaching 26 points after effects it's not enough. And Captain's Pride is useless

Sakurai B. Considering his cost, S
Tactician is worderful. 17 points in doubles + 8 points (No Formation) or even +16 (if Australian Formation works). Costing only 5 points!!

Gakuto C
A joke character, but a bit better that he seems to be.

Conclusion: My team got a S. Awesome.

Other good-broken players:Niou, Kajimoto,Mizuki,Yagyyu,Krauser,Gin,Zaizen,Hiyoshi,Gay Pair,Billy,Kita and Nitobe

Bad players:Tezuka,Fuji,a bit Silver Pair,Ryou,Atsuhi,Richrad

You forget that Ryoga wins vs Irie as well, he's so low in the list because he has the same number of win-loss characters (all - all-1) despite costing 5 points more.

Effect cancelling is great and Shiraishi is no exception. I think he could move to SS tier but SSS belongs to those characters that ensure auto wins vs almost everyone except maybe 5 chars.

GP is good as well, they're not SS tier imo, as they are only strong in doubles despite costing quite a bit. They should move up to S though, maybe.

Where do you see Kajimoto in C tier? You yourself said he was one of the worst mid-tiers available.

Kaneda has the potential to move up as well, he's useless in Singles though and even in Doubles he needs a good partner to keep things going.

Gakuto, see Kajimoto.

On the rest:
Again, WHY do you think Kajimoto is broken?
Also, I don't think Fuji is that bad, the problem is that all the people arounf him are all-rounders, and exactly that effect is crappy.

Sherlock Holmes
January 18, 2010, 11:58 AM
Wakato: B

SS? Are you high? He is versatile, but nowhere near that good. In the old league, sure. He was awesome. He could even Niou people. Now? No freaking way. The good effects are all impossible to be copied, some for reasons that don't even make sense(Samurai Drive impossible to be copied? Why? Is there any evidence at all that it can't be copied? Or the high schoolers techniques?)

Niou as SS? Really? He costed 35 points, and the most raw points he can get is 43.
Strong, but there are much better characters.

His "copying effects" effect isn't as useful anymore either, since he can't copy any of the useful effects. He is just a beatstick.

Wakato is B, Niou is S at the most. Yagyuu SS?
...Really?
He does seem good at first, but consider his freaking cost. 40 POINTS. He loses vs Renji, and anyone stronger than him. Sure he beats Tachibana and everyone BELLOW him, but he loses 100% of the time vs anyone with more points than him.

His laser shot is pathetic. ONLY +2 points?

Again, rank S. Not SS.

Yuuta? Rank F. He sucks.

Billy? Rank C is great.

Kite? I'd rank him B, or A. He's way better than it seems.

Hiyoshi, now him I would rank SS.
He can beat Kite
He can beat Inui.
Hell he can beat half of the middle tier list.

Kai? C or D. I would go with D.

Bowser
January 18, 2010, 01:04 PM
Golden Pair is freaking beast man! At first I thought Rikkai pair (Marui + Jackal) could beat them but...then I realised no preset pairs can beat them.

Normal: 19+12 (Kikumaru + Oishi)
Feats: 31+2+2 (Double Master, Acrobatic Play)
Effect: 35+4+5 (Moon Volley, Seal Step)
Formation: 44+10 (Oishi Territory, Seal Step required...)
Level 5 Bonus: 54+15
Aura: 69+12+12 (Synchro for both of them)
Overall: 94

If Auras replace Effects, in that case, 94-9=85. But you would need Seal Step in the first place to use Oishi Territory. I think Rikkai Pair is 86 =.=...but you need effects to work, otherwise

Kaoz
January 18, 2010, 02:06 PM
Wakato: B

SS? Are you high? He is versatile, but nowhere near that good. In the old league, sure. He was awesome. He could even Niou people. Now? No freaking way. The good effects are all impossible to be copied, some for reasons that don't even make sense(Samurai Drive impossible to be copied? Why? Is there any evidence at all that it can't be copied? Or the high schoolers techniques?)

Niou as SS? Really? He costed 35 points, and the most raw points he can get is 43.
Strong, but there are much better characters.

His "copying effects" effect isn't as useful anymore either, since he can't copy any of the useful effects. He is just a beatstick.

Wakato is B, Niou is S at the most. Yagyuu SS?
...Really?
He does seem good at first, but consider his freaking cost. 40 POINTS. He loses vs Renji, and anyone stronger than him. Sure he beats Tachibana and everyone BELLOW him, but he loses 100% of the time vs anyone with more points than him.

His laser shot is pathetic. ONLY +2 points?

Again, rank S. Not SS.

Yuuta? Rank F. He sucks.

Billy? Rank C is great.

Kite? I'd rank him B, or A. He's way better than it seems.

Hiyoshi, now him I would rank SS.
He can beat Kite
He can beat Inui.
Hell he can beat half of the middle tier list.

Kai? C or D. I would go with D.

Not directly high, just really sleepy.

Also, I already said that my list is in no way perfect but I suppose you're right on what you said, so I think I'll make some changes soon.

Bowser
January 18, 2010, 02:20 PM
(Samurai Drive impossible to be copied? Why? Is there any evidence at all that it can't be copied? Or the high schoolers techniques?)

Is there any evidence Wakato can copy all this though? He's great but he's not amazing, manga or anime.

Kaoz
January 18, 2010, 02:24 PM
To be correct, he didn't even have an appearance in the manga (yet?).

javimgol
January 18, 2010, 03:01 PM
Golden Pair is freaking beast man! At first I thought Rikkai pair (Marui + Jackal) could beat them but...then I realised no preset pairs can beat them.

Normal: 19+12 (Kikumaru + Oishi)
Feats: 31+2+2 (Double Master, Acrobatic Play)
Effect: 35+4+5 (Moon Volley, Seal Step)
Formation: 44+10 (Oishi Territory, Seal Step required...)
Level 5 Bonus: 54+15
Aura: 69+12+12 (Synchro for both of them)
Overall: 94

If Auras replace Effects, in that case, 94-9=85. But you would need Seal Step in the first place to use Oishi Territory. I think Rikkai Pair is 86 =.=...but you need effects to work, otherwise

1)Maximum amounts of points it's with Australian Formation, not Oishi Formation. But it only works if Support Bonus is added at the end, or VS very strong pairs.
Normal: 19+12 (Kikumaru + Oishi)
Feats: 31+2+2 (Double Master, Acrobatic Play)
35 points. One point less than Bunta alone.Less than Joke pair, Inui-Renji...well, the other good pairs except Silver Pair
Then, Australian Formation +16
Level 5 Bonus: 51+15
Aura: 66+12+12 (Synchro for both of them)
Total: 90 points, -4 to the rival thanks to Vision,and, the most important, the 90's are impossible to be reduced thanks to Synchro

2)We must discuss about when Doubles Support Bonus works. The fairiest, for me, would be just after or before Formations.

3)It doesn´t make sense that Golden Pair is Synchro can not use Oishi Formation. Reduce the speed of the partner to 12 in Oishi Territory description. Right now, the situation is pathetic, because the guys of the "let's discover the infinite possibilities of Doubles", Level 5, best doubles of the country, can only use one useful Formation, Australian; because they aren't two Agressive/Serve and Volley, they aren´t two Defensive Baseliner, they aren´t All-Rounder, they both haven´t a total of 20 or higher and I Formation does the same than Synchro. They need to do Oishi Territory whenever they want.

4)As I said, Oishi needs a boost. Only 14 points for the master of doubles is simply not fair. He should be good with any partner, not only useful with Kikumaru.

5) Wakato, costing 16 points, reaches 29 points with Hadokyyu (in singles)or 26 points in doubles with Rai. Not enough to beat the upper half of the mid tier, but compare him with Reiji or Kajimoto, who cost the same. Mid tier is full of great characters

7) Gakuto is better than Akazawa, who costs the same, for example. Rank C is good for him.
Yes, Kajimoto is crap, Rank F or sth would be good

Kaoz
January 18, 2010, 03:08 PM
I think we discussed this already and as Jyten has said in the other thread, if Oishi was to be amazing with everyone, his cost wouldn't be 20 but maybe 30-35, he would be high tier if he was true to the manga (as well as Kikumaru I suppose).

javimgol
January 18, 2010, 03:15 PM
I think we discussed this already and as Jyten has said in the other thread, if Oishi was to be amazing with everyone, his cost wouldn't be 20 but maybe 30-35, he would be high tier if he was true to the manga (as well as Kikumaru I suppose).
At least, change that sad 2 point boost to a "The team can use any standard Formation regardless of that Formation’s conditions."
I prefer less points and show the world than he dominates Doubles :D.

What do you think about what I said about Synchro impossible to be used at the same time that Oishi Territory, as Bowser discovered?

Kaoz
January 18, 2010, 03:20 PM
At least, change that sad 2 point boost to a "The team can use any standard Formation regardless of that Formation’s conditions."
I prefer less points and show the world than he dominates Doubles :D.

What do you think about what I said about Synchro impossible to be used at the same time that Oishi Territory, as Bowser discovered?

There ain't much I can say, it's a fact.

-Ken-
January 18, 2010, 03:26 PM
It never shown in the manga that they can use Synchro and Oishi Territory at the same time. Once they enter Synchro, it kinda become one way strategy.

Sherlock Holmes
January 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
Is there any evidence Wakato can copy all this though? He's great but he's not amazing, manga or anime.

If you want to argue that Wakato can't copy it, fine by me. Though then we would start making him much more useless, if instead of "copy any effect" we start putting limits on him.
But what about Niou? He should be able to use Samurai Drive without a problem. He copies auras like it's nothing.

javimgol
January 18, 2010, 04:27 PM
It never shown in the manga that they can use Synchro and Oishi Territory at the same time. Once they enter Synchro, it kinda become one way strategy.
Yes, you are right.
Our game is more accurate than we suppose

Wakato can copy Rai or TZone. Samurai Drive is the most broken effect of the league, if a 16 point character can use it, we are doomed.The laphole would be similar to avoid Crucify to be copied

Kaoz
January 18, 2010, 04:40 PM
We could make a downgraded version copyable, so that the auto-lose condition is maybe 6 or 7 for both stats.

javimgol
January 18, 2010, 04:48 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/372/13/
Daisharin Yamaarashi [Final Effect]:
Kintarou’s Power is boosted by 3 points. Then, if the opponent’s total is within 3 points of Kintarou’s, Kintarou wins.
This effect cannot be copied.
No, it can be copied. And it's great: 1.5 points of boost (0 with Mugyyu, 3 Nio and Wakato), but 3 points of auto-win. Go, and spam it, dear Muga/Mugyy, Copy Masters

Kaoz
January 22, 2010, 09:10 AM
Can't argue with that...
I'll change it once round 2 is over.
[hr]
I changed the list a bit, I hope it's better now.