Sandaime Hokage Vs Sasuke

[BBB Banana]

So guys the power levels in Naruto are becoming a litlle messed up in my opinion so this figth may be a way of knowing if that's true.

Sarutobi the one known as a God among shinobi the strongest hokage ever student of hirashima and tobirama. Dazou's rival. The Sanin's Master.

Against Sasuke one of the strongest actual characters in the manga fougth a few kages, two jinchuriky, fougth Itachi, and kinda fougth Oro.

The figth takes place at the forest near knoha where Gaara and Naruto fougth.

Who do you think the winer is?

I think Sandaime wins.

This an all out figth wich means Sasuke(current) has acess to all his MS techniques, ninjutsu, genjutsu, sumons, and hatred XD. While Hiruzen has acess to everything he showed including the shinigami technique.

[Katz]

I go with the 3rd on this one, well dependiing on what age he is when he fights in this particular fantasy battle, cause I think if we took like 15-20 years off his age when he fight Oro, that wouldn't have even be a fight.

And we didn't see how much ALL he could do in his fight with Oro, I'm sure his age had something to do with that, but I'm sure in the entire time he was alive he's probably had run-in's with plenty of uchiha, so my vote goes toward the 3rd in his prime

[Silvers Rayleigh]

Dude what the hell
sasuke gets murder and die in 2min.
this fight will be worse then bee vs sasuke(Sarutobi will cook him
alive)lol

[The Exalted]

*sigh*

Seriously...why even make a thread about this fight. Sarutobi would curb stomp that kid. Did anyone see Danzo during Part 1 of the manga??!?!

NO!

Because when he challenged Sarutobi he got straight up mauled, and spent most of his Ninja career trying to get hax powers and jutsu to stand a chance vs. the Third Hokage. Orochimaru had to pretty much 'jump' the Third with the help of two kage's.

Orochimaru in his prime still lost!!!!

No one in the manga to date would stand a chance against the Third in a one on one fight.

[BBB Banana]

Well I made this thread because I see lots of people saying in threads about Sasuke that it's impossible to defeat susanoo, amaterasu and every other sharingan hax without being a haxed character.

So I want to know how people think he can bypass all these haxes trough good use of his vast arsenal. And if you think he can't explain why you think so!

[Darth Executor]

*sigh*

Seriously...why even make a thread about this fight. Sarutobi would curb stomp that kid. Did anyone see Danzo during Part 1 of the manga??!?!

NO!

Because when he challenged Sarutobi he got straight up mauled, and spent most of his Ninja career trying to get hax powers and jutsu to stand a chance vs. the Third Hokage.

And now that he has them Sasuke's fighting a balanced fight with him. This is post-hax danzou, not the danzou sarutobi mauled.


Orochimaru had to pretty much 'jump' the Third with the help of two kage's.

That's a part of his own jutsu. In fact, oro didn't use much of his own jutsu against sarutobi at all. Only reason why sarutobi didn't get completely stomped is because of a suicidal jutsu that oro didn't know about.


Orochimaru in his prime still lost!!!!

lolwut? Oro won a Pyrrhic victory. Last I checked, oro got out alive and eventually completely recovered while sarutobi is getting devoured for eternity inside the shiki fuujin. Saru won the war but he definitely lost that battle.


No one in the manga to date would stand a chance against the Third in a one on one fight.

Please. Lots of people could stand up to sarutobi. Most of akatsuki could, shodai and minato could, gaara could, mizukage and tsuchikage could, heck, even raikage could. Rikodu would probably do to sarutobi what kakashi did to team 7 during the first bell test. hanzou managed to live while fighting 3 great nations so odds are he can stand up to sarutobi too. How many of these can beat him is debatable, but the idea that nobody would stand a chance against him in a one on one fight is completely absurd.

[Shiro-kun]

Seeing that we never knew how powerful Sarutobi was at his prime , its difficult to say....at the very least

The Old Sarutobi would surely lose , but put a very goood fight agaisnt Sasuke = at least try to find Sasuke's weaknesses in his ms jutsu and do some signifcant damage..

[Alterno]

You are disrespecting the author of the manga and the manga itself when you talk about power levels, remember what he have said about such topic.

Sandaime Hokage all the way in, Sandaime had more experience than Sasuke in battle and still does, even after his death, Sasuke couldn't even kill Orochimaru, instead all he did is reflect the jutsu of a weakened Orochimaru and is cannon that Sasuke only defeated Orochimaru due that reason.

Remember btw, that we don't know for sure how strong is Sasuke in terms of gen jutsu compared to Itachi, this because Itachi didn't use all his strength against Sasuke, as said in the manga.

[khar2]

what am i suppose to say on that???
from sentence "here is how kages battle" (anbu comment about jiraya vs oro) from part 2 every battle sasuke fights is that kind of battle
3 rd vs oro he did some impresive jutsus, but nothing special, i mean jiraya against pain showed more
one fire jutsu, one mud jutsu, some tai, he didnt dispel genjutsu, some kagebushin and thats it
since then every battle was jutsu exchange, so i dont know what he can do, couse now all he has is his famous reputation, just like hanzo, 1st, 2nd, madara

[AlB]

Against Sasuke one of the strongest actual characters in the manga fougth a few kages, two jinchuriky, fougth Itachi, and kinda fougth Oro.

and the result? did he actually WIN any of these fights? Oro does not count he was on his deathbed and not even at 1% (he was dying after all). Itachi wanted sasuke to win so that one doesn't count either

sandaime would rape sasuke
[hr]

Well I made this thread because I see lots of people saying in threads about Sasuke that it's impossible to defeat susanoo, amaterasu and every other sharingan hax without being a haxed character.

So I want to know how people think he can bypass all these haxes trough good use of his vast arsenal. And if you think he can't explain why you think so!

perhaps not give time to use it? and damage it as well: remember danzo's wind destroyed part of susanoo's armor and the old man was veeery tired and exhausted at that point. besides susanoo takes great toll so hiruzen would easily outmaneuver and outlast it. amaterasu - smae as raikage, hiruzen is too fast for sasuke, tsukuyomi - he kust won't look into sasuke's eyes

[POW]

This kind of setup is funny as I was thinking about the same thing. However you realize this type of thread will attract Sasuke haters to post typical responses as well as the Sasuke fanboys.


In anycase in trying to stay objective....

- If Sarutobi is in old age it would not be such a simple fight as he lacks stamina so this could drag on against the 3rd's best interest so it may end a draw.

- In his youthful prime however I would put money on the 3rd with his vast array of knowledge and mastery of the 3 shinobi arts Nin, Tai, Gen this would be a feast for the eyes to behold!

Too bad we never get to see Sarutobi in his prime showcase his fighting skills :darn Although I had an idea for a flashback side story where we get to see just that....

[Silvers Rayleigh]

and the result? did he actually WIN any of these fights? Oro does not count he was on his deathbed and not even at 1% (he was dying after all). Itachi wanted sasuke to win so that one doesn't count either


oh please not that again, what difference does it make's is alive they are dead. Win or lose, sasuke survive they did not.in battle surviving is the goal. ORO and Tsunade, never won any real battles to the death
does this make them weak.

but i do agreed, sasuke as no chance in hell

[Darth Executor]

Based on what we've seen of old man sarutobi, he'll get curb stomped by Sasuke in a nanosecond. Sorry, power levels in this manga have advanced to absurd levels since oro's invasion. His array of jutsu was completely atrocious, his taijutsu was nothing to brag about (neither is Sasuke's for that matter), and his ninjutsu is vastly inferior to the MS alone and barely stands up to sasuke's normal ninjutsu array (i give sarutobi the edge because he's well rounded, sasuke's pretty much all offense and sarutobi's smart enough to find an opening). The only reason why I voted "not sure" is because we have no idea what sarutobi is capable of in his prime.

[BBB Banana]

and the result? did he actually WIN any of these fights? Oro does not count he was on his deathbed and not even at 1% (he was dying after all). Itachi wanted sasuke to win so that one doesn't count either

sandaime would rape sasuke


I never said he won those batles but those batlles helped Sasuke in his quest for power, those fights gave him experience and hatred XD

I'm not a Sasuke fan neither a hater (even if I dislike him) but I do admit that the guy is strong and ia also one of the strongest characters in the manga.

Personally I think sandaime would win in his prime even though we don't really know how strong he was in his prime.

And I also think that he he would win even in his old state he's the most shinobi like character in the manga IMO and is very smart so he would make use of the Trees and landscape hence why I choose the forest as location.

He is the most versatile character in the manga is said to be able to use every techinique in Konoha and his speed is top tier as well as his genjutsu and taijutsu. He also has a great sumon despise not being a huge sumon like gamabunta.

[AlB]

He also has a great sumon despise not being a huge sumon like gamabunta.

size of creature doesn't matter, it's their power that matters, remember fukasaku and shima? sarutobi's boss summon was monkey king genma (or enma, don't remember for sure) and genma is great fighter
[hr]

oh please not that again, what difference does it make's is alive they are dead. Win or lose, sasuke survive they did not.in battle surviving is the goal. ORO and Tsunade, never won any real battles to the death
does this make them weak.

but i do agreed, sasuke as no chance in hell

can't argue with that, 100% justified argument, but in a sense, itachi WON because the fight went just as he intended. had sasuke died accidentaly during their fight it would be itachi's loss. you get what I mean?

[kingplaya(minato)]

See the way people are giving saindaime this victory so easily when jiraiya has shown more than him in the manga, are u guys saying that students don't surpass their teachers or what?... If this was jiraiya, people would have been saying 'which justu does he have 2 break susano' when the 3rd hasn't shown anything that can do that... Enma(the summon), would have been said 2 have been controlled by sasuke quite easily if it were jiraiya... All sarutobi has is his reputation and just cuz jiraiya hasn't had any1 praise him that much, then he is... normal... Now that i've finished my rant, i think saindaime would win only if he is younger but his old self would at best get a draw as he won' have enough stamina 2 outlast sasuke...

[Rikudou King]

Depending on how fast he can summon the Shinigami, I would give it to Sarutobi, Since that's the only technique Sasuke couldn't counter or block. Aside from that, Sasuke is faster and has the deadlier techniques. Against the aged Sarutobi, He shouldn't have a problem.

[kingplaya(minato)]

Also, people overestimate this sarutobi's prime stuff, it means he had less chakra/stamina and not less ninjustu or skills... If he could pull out something like the deathgod justu, then i don't see why he couldn't pull out any of his special techs if he had any... Oro most likely meant that sarutobi 10 years previously would have enough strength to finish removing his soul and thus defeat him... People read too much in2 that statement.

[Ssk]

I remember Danzo fought against Sandaime Hiruzen for the title of the third Hokage...and he losts. Sasuke currently fights againsts Danzo and meet difficulties to overcome. Moreover, the experience is largely in favor of the third.

Indeed, Sasuke has every chance of losing without his eyes' powers as Susano'o. However, it remains Susano'o. This could be a good defense. Despite that, I still think he wouldn't match for young Hiruzen, old, it should suceed.

Also, do not forget that the earth is weak against lightning (which Sasuke uses) and facing the light (if I'm not mistaken). So, affinities give the advantage to Sasuke but experience...

[Kyuubinoyoko]

I have to agree with some of the others here and say that Sandaime would lose.

I love Sandaimes character but Naruto has become like dragonball z almost. In the beginning it was about ninja tactics and not so much about flashy techs but now its all about who has the most uber jutsu.

Sarutobi ruled and was strong in his time but now I see sasuke analyzing and predicting every single jutsu he uses and countering them.

[Rikudou King]

I remember Danzo fought against Sandaime Hiruzen for the title of the third Hokage...and he losts. Sasuke currently fights againsts Danzo and meet difficulties to overcome. Moreover, the experience is largely in favor of the third. When they say fought, They don't mean actual combat. Not to mention the Danzo at that time lack any Sharingans or Mokuton.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Hiruzen could probably spam smoke bombs to negate the sharingan's predicting ability while also avoiding Amaterasu and TS.
When he could repeadatly spam the all directions shuriken until Sasuke uses Susano'o, and then dodge it or hide underground until Sasuke is weakened enough because of the massive pain.
Then earth and fire jutsu ftw.

[niblack89]

It would depend. The third when he was fighting Orochamaru didn't use any real powerful A or S class attacks maybe it was because he wanted to reserve his chakra. But if Sasuke was to use susanoo those attacks wouldn't be of no use and Sasuke has an affinity against his earth based attacks. He has a sharingan so hand seals justsus wont really work he would just read them and avoid it, since the third wouldn't be able to use earth style he would be left with fire which Sasuke also has and could cancel out.

Skill defiantly goes to the third Power goes to Sasuke

Like Danzo I'm pretty sure that the third knows all of his MS attacks because of experience. The third was said to be a master of the multi shadow clone jutsu, saying that at on point his chakra reserve was great. He was said to be the professor so I'm pretty sure he knows lots of A and S class attacks. The guy was old so I'm sure his speed and power was way off due to brittle bones. I say the Match would go to the third at his prime as cause at his old age he faced two hokages and a full powered Orouchimaru. Imagine him with the third with his current skill and Jirayia's chakra or close to it. Plus he has his monkey summing which even scared Orouchimaru.

If the third was younger he would probably win I don't really know the extinct of his power when he was younger I just think he would have better physical attributes. Sasuke is no push over like people make him seem to be (I'm no Sasuke lover or hater. I'm as neutral as Canada(no disrespect to Canadians)

[Delbi]

Hiruzen could probably spam smoke bombs to negate the sharingan's predicting ability while also avoiding Amaterasu and TS.
When he could repeadatly spam the all directions shuriken until Sasuke uses Susano'o, and then dodge it or hide underground until Sasuke is weakened enough because of the massive pain.
Then earth and fire jutsu ftw.

Smoke doesn't stop the Sharigan from seeing chakra, so Sasuke would stll see him, this has been discussed numerous times.

Sasuke's elemental jutsu, for what it's worth, are also superior to Sarturobi's.

Sarturobi isn't particulary fast, so Ameratsu and Sussano's attack present a big problem.

Enma could probably protect him from Ameratsu somewhat, but Sasuke can still sneak flames through the holes of the adimantium cage.

All in all, unless Sarutobi uses the death God, Sasuke wins. Sad, but true.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Smoke doesn't stop the Sharigan from seeing chakra, so Sasuke would stll see him, this has been discussed numerous times.


When was it stated or shown in the manga? Because I surely missed it :blink

[jdw]

When was it stated or shown in the manga? Because I surely missed it :blink

The argument used that I have seen, not sure if it is Delbi's in this case, is that because Sasuke could see Deidara's mines underground (who knows how far they actually are underground), no amount of smoke can obstruct the sharingan from seeing chakra.

[Windmillblade]

look what sandaime did to full power orochimaru!and he was a old geezer lol,r.i.p)

[Delbi]

The argument used that I have seen, not sure if it is Delbi's in this case, is that because Sasuke could see Deidara's mines underground (who knows how far they actually are underground), no amount of smoke can obstruct the sharingan from seeing chakra.

It's what I'm using. The only time we have seen the Sharigan's chakra seeing abilities blocked, was when the Hidden Mist no jutsu was used, because the mist was full of charka, thus clouding the Sharigan's vision.

Sasuke displayed the ability to see through solid earth, so I fail to see why he can't see through a smoke bomb.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Damn, that's absurdly broken. Ugh.
Anyways, smoke directly in Sasuke's eyes whould make him lose the focus for a while, which whould give enough time for Hiruzen to use all directions shuriken.

[Delbi]

look what sandaime did to full power orochimaru!and he was a old geezer lol,r.i.p)

For what it's worth, if Sasuke fought that Orochimaru, Sasuke would most likely kill him. Getting rid of the Kages would be a pain in the ass, but Orochimaru himself wouldn't last long against the current Sasuke for a number of reasons.

[khar2]

->yep pretty much how it was, 3rd was hyped, and then the battle came, and he did it, at least to some extent
->and then 2nd part came, and everything upgraded, it was about bigger and bigger jutsu, now everyone who is someone in world has one or few hax abillities and simply 3rd is from a different part of story
--->so on hype i am giving it to 3rd, but on visual its sasuke all the way<-----

[Delbi]

Damn, that's absurdly broken. Ugh.
Anyways, smoke directly in Sasuke's eyes whould make him lose the focus for a while, which whould give enough time for Hiruzen to use all directions shuriken.

And Sussano could defend against such an attack. What if Sasuke used smoke directly at Sarutorbi, then crushed him with Sussano?

Smoke bombs are seriously the weakest argument ever, especially since if Sasuke is clouded in smoke, he can just shushin away and Sartuobi wouldn't see him.

Zabuza is the one and only ninja we have seen that is capable of fighting extremely well when he can't see his opponent. Sarutobi isn't like that.

[Raizen]

Saying sasuke can take on Sarutobi is like saying he can take on minato. Sarutobi was considered to be the strongest among the kages, and considered a GOD among shinobis even by oro who was in an organization filled w/ powerful ninjas, itachi included.

Saidame w/o a doubt knows about teh abilities of the sharingan. Not to mention, he is stated to know EVERy moves in konoha. Whether u want to take it that he knew how to use every move or how to counter them doesn't matter. B/c in the end, it still shows that his superior skills would overwhelm sasuke.

All this susanoo crap is BS. Having sharingan doesn't make him automatically a ninja that can take on someone like sarutobi. I see sarutobi as among one of teh few ninjas that can take on pein 1-on-1, sasuke isn't there yet.

And sarutobi knows a plethora of techniques, that much is certain. And even at an old age, he was able to fend off 2 kages and oro. And sent him running. Old sarutobi may have trouble w/ sasuke. But Prime sarutobi would utterly crush him. That much is certain. in the end, even old sarutobi would beat him

[ninjabot]

Sarutobi hasn't shown us the kind of firepower, movement speed, or ex-factor type jutsu needed to overcome Sasuke's MS. It's a shame, but he's not winning this fight. Not old Sarutobi atleast.

The biggest problem here comes from Enma, who transforms into the Adamantine Nyoi-bo and can form a cage to protect him. I doub't it'd help much against Amaterasu though.

[Prince Sasuke]

Everyone can brag on The third legendary status, but fact is he showed very basic jutsu aginst Oro. Sarbutobi was well past his prime and showed to have low stamina,so if Sasuke is facing the old Sarbutobi, he won't have a chance. The only Jutsu Sarbutobi could use is the death god,and that would kill the both of them.

[Zatono]

These arguments are getting ridiculous. If I said Sasuke vs Pain, would you guys say that Sasuke wins because of Susano'o and Amaterasu?

It was stated that Sarutobi knows EVERY technique in Konoha, so based on that statement, he has access to plenty of techniques, such as Swamp of the Underworld. Just because they weren't introduced yet, doesn't mean that Sarutobi wasn't good with shape or elemental manipulation. He might be able to use Chidori, and can most definitely pull a Rasengan if needed. Seriously, if he uses Swamp of the Underworld as soon as Sasuke pulls Susano'o, which he'll most likely do within the first 30 seconds of the battle, he can just drown Sasuke immediately, and this is with Sarutobi outside of his prime.

If he's at his prime, and we assume that he was the strongest of the Kages as stated, then Sasuke is so screwed.
Madara < Hashirama < Sarutobi, according to the manga, and if Madara, who had access to all the MS techniques, whatever his EMS gave him, and had the Kyuubi to back him up, couldn't beat Hashirama who's supposedly weaker then Sarutobi, then Sasuke will never win. Ever. It could be Sasuke, the current Madara, and Danzou vs Sarutobi in his prime and they still probably wouldn't win.

[Delbi]

Umm according the manga, Sarturobi was at one point, the strongest Hokage ever, not Hirashima, get the facts straight. The guy wasn't called the "God Amongst Shinobi" for no reason.

In any event, as others have said, Sarturobi has nothing to compete wtih Sasuke's Ameratsu or Sussano, literally nothing.

He knew every technique in Konoha. And? No Konoha bred technique aside from Kekkai Genkai one's and the Death God can compete with the MS, so the fact he knows 1000 techniques or whatever means shit. And he can't possibly use Chidori since his affinity isn't Lightning.

As for Swamp of the Underworld, it's a Doton, which are weak against what again? O yea, Raiton, Sasuke's affinity. He could destory the swamp and summon a hawk and fly over Sarutobi and lay him ablaze from above.

If this was the prime Sarturobi, I'm inclined to believe he'd kill Sasuke, but alas, it's now and we can only go by what he's done in the actual manga, not the legend that his name created when he was in his prime.

[Zatono]

Umm according the manga, Sarturobi was at one point, the strongest Hokage ever, not Hirashima, get the facts straight. The guy wasn't called the "God Amongst Shinobi" for no reason.

In any event, as others have said, Sarturobi has nothing to compete wtih Sasuke's Ameratsu or Sussano, literally nothing.

He knew every technique in Konoha. And? No Konoha bred technique aside from Kekkai Genkai one's and the Death God can compete with the MS, so the fact he knows 1000 techniques or whatever means shit. And he can't possibly use Chidori since his affinity isn't Lightning.

As for Swamp of the Underworld, it's a Doton, which are weak against what again? O yea, Raiton, Sasuke's affinity. He could destory the swamp and summon a hawk and fly over Sarutobi and lay him ablaze from above.


Ok, sorry about the first part. I just had my < > signs reversed on accident, but everything I said before that should of justified my mistake. Now, obviously there's SOME way to deal with Amaterasu and Susano'o, without using trees. If Hashirama could deal with them, then surely Sarutobi can.

Also, so what if Raiton > Doton? What the hell do you think'll happen? He'll use Chidori and the swamp will fucking explode? Also, getting on the hawk means that he's abandoned Susano'o, so maybe Sarutobi can just shoot him down? I don't think it'll be hard to dodge Amaterasu if he's shooting you from the sky, and I don't think Sasuke can just use it endlessly. He's going to close that eye at some point, and in that split second, a ninja like Sarutobi can make or break the battle.

[Delbi]

Now, obviously there's SOME way to deal with Amaterasu and Susano'o, without using trees. If Hashirama could deal with them, then surely Sarutobi can.

It's never been stated that Madara has the same MS techs as everyone else, so Hirashima might not have had to deal with either Ameratsu and Sussano. And Sarturobi isn't Hirshima, until you come up with solid evidence that Sarturobi can defeat, dodge, or negact either of those attacks, then he can't, and he loses, it's kind of simple.



Also, so what if Raiton > Doton? What the hell do you think'll happen? He'll use Chidori and the swamp will fucking explode? Also, getting on the hawk means that he's abandoned Susano'o, so maybe Sarutobi can just shoot him down? I don't think it'll be hard to dodge Amaterasu if he's shooting you from the sky, and I don't think Sasuke can just use it endlessly. He's going to close that eye at some point, and in that split second, a ninja like Sarutobi can make or break the battle.

Firstly, no the entire swamp won't explode, but whatever part Sasuke is in, won't be able to sink Sasuke because of whatever Raiton jutsu he uses. Most likely the mud in that area with harden and Sasuke will be able to stand on it.

As for Sussano, it seems to be weightless, and it moves whereever Sasuke moves, so he can certainly use it while in the air.

As for using Ameratsu endlessly, he only needs to use it one time to kill Sarturobi, and he can use it many times in one fight as shown in his previous two fights. Also, it appears instantly more or less, whereever the user is looking. There truly is no dodging this jutsu unless you are the Raikage, as he's the only one with the reflexes and shushin that are fast enough to do so.

In short, Sarturobi dies. It's again very sad to think the Strongest Kage every would lose to Sasuke, but alas, he would.

[Darth Executor]

Umm according the manga, Sarturobi was at one point, the strongest Hokage ever, not Hirashima, get the facts straight. The guy wasn't called the "God Amongst Shinobi" for no reason.

There is no officially confirmed "strongest Hokage ever". Iruka IIRC called him that. But he was biased. So's Kakashi when he says Minato's the best evah. What else are they gonna say? They're pimping their favorites. IMO Shodai is without a doubt stronger than Sarutobi. Even if sarutobi's base skills are better, his kkg and especially his bijuu control catapult him to near rikodu levels. I'm not even sure he's stronger than minato. In fact, the only reason why I'm not ranking sarutobi at the bottom is because tobirama showed even less than he does and he was old. If all sarutobi has in his prime is stamina, then as far as I'm concerned he's rock bottom.
[hr]

look what sandaime did to full power orochimaru!and he was a old geezer lol,r.i.p)

Massage the undead hokages' fists with his face until he used a suicide jutsu?

[Tsukisama]

There is no officially confirmed "strongest Hokage ever". Iruka IIRC called him that. But he was biased. So's Kakashi when he says Minato's the best evah. What else are they gonna say? They're pimping their favorites. IMO Shodai is without a doubt stronger than Sarutobi. Even if sarutobi's base skills are better, his kkg and especially his bijuu control catapult him to near rikodu levels. I'm not even sure he's stronger than minato. In fact, the only reason why I'm not ranking sarutobi at the bottom is because tobirama showed even less than he does and he was old. If all sarutobi has in his prime is stamina, then as far as I'm concerned he's rock bottom.

Iruka states Sandaime is the strongest Hokage during a history lesson, and the databook also names Sandaime as the strongest Hokage in the history of the village. It is not just a matter of opinion.

To explain the difference between the statements concerning Sandaime and Yondaime, I am going to quote a very good post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=863510#post863510) on the matter by Franckie:


The Sandaime Hokage is referenced as "History's Strongest" in DB1.


Databook 1 Page 117
"プロフェッサー"と崇められる歴代最強の火影

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

In terms of being referred to the "most powerful" or "strongest", Kishimoto tends to use "最強" (saikyou), which I have bolded in the above quote.

Let's see who the Sandaime Hokage's history includes according to their "reign":

- Shodai
- Nidaime
- Sandaime
- Yondaime
- Sandaime

Likewise, Databook 1 Page 119:


"歴代最強""天才"など,三代目火影を形容する言葉はに満ちている.
"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.


I know the 4th was said to be the strongest, but in what aspect? Let's look over this part for the sake of argument. If you do believe the 4th is the strongest, please elaborate why.

Yondaime has never been stated to be the strongest. What Jiraiya said is "なんせあやつは忍として器は歴代一だった...” -> "nanse ayatsu wa shinobi toshite utsuwa wa rekidaiichi datta...". A literal translation of that would be "Afterall, his ability/caliber/capacity as a shinobi was number one in history".

I don't know why Kishimoto calls the Sandaime the strongest while calling the Yondaime the greatest. The two concepts normally go hand-in-hand, though that isn't always the case. And even though the Yondaime Hokage is depicted as being the best ninja introduced so far, does he need to be the strongest as well? No. Not having the title of "strongest" does not harm his character or take away his importance in the story.


To further clarify, Minato has been stated as being the most talented ninja in the history of the village by Jiraiya. Kakashi's statement that is often referenced as a claim for Minato being the strongest Hokage could easily be viewed in the context of Naruto being the only one capable of surpassing Yondaime strictly with regard to the rasengan, as he had just finished saying that Yondaime created the rasengan and not even Yondaime could complete it.

The only other reference people usually use to claim Yondaime is superior is when Anko wished that Yondaime was still around when Orochimaru's intention to attack the village was known. Sandaime is an old man who has come out of retirement to take the place of Yondaime, a young, virile man who died tragically young and before his time. It is only natural to wish he were still alive. It was not meant as any sort of dismissal of Sandaime, and it does not seem like Sandaime interpreted it as such either.

Concerning Shodai, the only thing he has going for him is praise from Madara, praise that does not explicitly name Hashirama as the strongest. Additionally, the argument that Shodai must be the strongest because he defeated Madara also does not necessarily hold water, as 1) we don't know how the fight between the two really went down (Madara is clearly still alive and active after the fight against popular belief) and 2) we still don't know what Sandaime not weakened by old age could do.

(Having more chakra and stamina opens more possibilities for jutsu for Hiruzen. We know that he was reluctant to use shadow clones because of the chakra cost, and given his reputation, there is a good likelihood that he knew more advanced, chakra-draining jutsu, but he did not use a lot of these types of jutsu because he had to conserve his chakra/stamina in his battle against Orochimaru and the first two Hokage.)

So, Sandaime was and probably still is the strongest Hokage. The statement of being the strongest applies for Hokage #1-4. I highly doubt Tsunade is stronger than all of her predecessors, and the sixth Hokage has not been officially declared. (Danzou was appointed by the Fire Daimyo but has still not been approved by the council of jounin, making him the acting Hokage for the village. Kakashi is only recognized as Hokage by the Kazekage and company at this point; he also has not been officially named as Hokage by the village. I am still kind of hoping that Konohamaru's statement about Naruto being the one who will be the eventual sixth Hokage may come to pass. :amuse)

This is not really the place to debate who is the strongest Hokage, as it has nothing to do with Sasuke fighting Hiruzen. (Go here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41817) to debate the strongest Hokage.)

Concerning the thread's actual topic, I pretty much agree with what those who have already discussed this.

If we are going solely on what Sandaime showed in the manga in his one fight, he probably would lose. Sasuke nowadays loves to use Susanoo, and Sandaime has shown nothing that could penetrate that. Additionally, if Sasuke lands any of the MS attacks on Sandaime, then Sandaime will lose. Sandaime's best hope would be to try to outlast Sasuke, and if he manages that feat, then he would probably win, but Sasuke just seems to have quite a bit more going for him.

If I were to consider Sandaime's reputation and if Sandaime was not weakened with old age, then I would like to think that Sandaime would win, but this obviously unknown and purely speculation.

[mattiaildivino]

kishi said that minato would have won slightly if they had fought,then I think hiruzen would have won against sasuke. sasuke is strong and fast,but hiruzen is stronger and with more experience. if a clone takes him with the shikifujin sasuke is done for.and enma is very strong.with 10 years less hiruzen would have defeated both hashirama,tobirama and orochimaru.

[ninjabot]

Sasuke wins definitively, based on the simple fact that no one here (no one at all) can post a believable argument in Sarutobi's favor that doesn't rely on pure hype. LMAO, Sarutobi's like old-school Minato in the threads from years ago. No one can beat him no matter what, yet no one knows the hell why.

We do however know why Sasuke would win:

Speed: Until Sarutobi shows it to us, Sasuke is fast enough to deal with his movements thanks to his own divine speed+Sharingan. And it may just be me, but the speed Sarutobi has displayed against Orochimaru was nothing to get excited about. I'd even go as far as to say Sasuke's flat-out faster. Prove me wrong.

Taijutsu: Sharingan>taijutsu, pretty much. The only time this is not the case is when you're outrageously faster than the Uchiha you're fighting (Sarutobi's not), have a taijutsu skill that dwarfs his own (lol, proof?) or have some sort of sensing ability or doujutsu of your own that aids you in countering their predictions with your own predictions. Sarutobi's got none of that.

Ninjutsu: It's been stated that Sarutobi can counter any jutsu... but don't get things twisted. He can't counter every jutsu all the time. And if you deliberately set him up to counter a jutsu only to be hit by another, then you're good. Layering Genjutsu, Kawarimi, Shunshin, feigned attacks, hidden wires to redirect shuriken... all of these are attacks that can set up a no-miss ninjutsu. And with no feats outside of ONE fight to stack up against Sasuke's, it's almost unfair to have Sarutobi matched against him.

Genjutsu: We've seen Sarutobi hit with a Genjutsu, but we never saw him ESCAPE a Genjutsu. Whether he chose not to or couldn't is up for debate, but the fact of the matter is without proof (just like with Minato and Jiraiya) I'm not giving him a "get out of Genjutsu free" card. There's also something you guys need to accept about Sarutobi's so called knowledge of Uchiha and all the jutsu: Sasuke is not the ninja of Sarutobi's past. With each generation ninja are getting stronger and more hax. What worked on the ninja Sarutobi fought might not work on Sasuke. And if he did face a Sharingan it's doubtful he faced one as strong as Sasuke's.

Stamina: Sarutobi likely doesn't have the stamina to go 12 rounds with Sasuke. I base this on both his age and the fact that Sasuke is no slouch in the chakra department, even with his databook stat. The only way it would become a genuine problem is if Sarutobi managed to overcome Sasuke's MS, which he can't do realistically. Not for any length of time I mean. I can see him surviving Amaterasu with a Doryu Hekki... or maybe even a Kawarimi or bunshin. But Tsukuyomi or Susanoo arrows are out of the question.

Experience: Sarutobi has him trumped here, but I'll say this once: Experience counts for shit in the Naruto series. Naruto beat Kakuzu with a god damn bait-and-switch. It was at that point I realized that experience isn't the advantage it should be, because there's no way in hell Kakuzu had never faced a bunshin before in his decades of battle, yet he fell to the most textbook of strategies. And sure enough, Danzou was likely as experienced as Sarutobi and it meant nothing against Sasuke. Hell, he even had express knowledge of the MS and it's jutsu and it STILL didn't help.

So yeah, Sasuke wins. And no, Sasuke being able to defeat Sarutobi decisively doesn't make him hax or broken, because there are plenty of ninja capable of defeating him. Sarutobi just ain't one of em'.

[Rikudou King]

Considering how things worked out for Danzo and he was suppose to be Sarutobi's rival, Sarutobi is in major trouble. Even if he knows about Sasuke's abilities, without the speed and reflexes it doesn't matter. There's no way that Sarutobi could dodge, let along defend against Amaterasu. One shot off the bat and the fight will be over.

[xXan]

Mismatch unfortunately as Sasuke completly stomps.

Fight starts.

Sasuke: Grrrr, mrrrr me kill you.
Sarutobi: Bla bla bla will of fire bla bla bla.
Sasuke: AMATERASU.
Sarutobi: AARRRRRRGGGGGGGGG.

Sarutobi dies.