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LnDRash
January 31, 2010, 05:58 AM
-Kimimaro without disease so no time limit for him in this fight.
-Current Sasuke with his whole MS stuff.
-Both fighters roughly know what the other is capable of.

I belive this would be a pretty interesting fight. Considering that Kimimaro's bones are hard enough to withstand being crushed by Gaara's Desert Funeral, I belive he could take even direct hits from Susanoo without being crushed. Also, according to the Data Book's both are pretty even in Speed and Intelligence.

I myself would give this fight to Kimimaro because of the following reasons:

He has more Stamina, is much better in Taijutsu then Sasuke and considering that his speed is on par, Sasuke would have a hard time hiting him with chidori. In fact, it could even be that chidori would be completely ineffective, since Kimimaro could increase the density of his bones so much that a direct hit may only cause a minor wound like against Raikage.

Susanoo would also be a bad choice against such an resilient opponent, since it most likely would drain Sasuke out far before the fight is over. Amaterasu on the other hand is one of Sasuke's Techniques Kimimaro would have to look out for, but since he can create weapons and shields from his bones, he would most likely be able to guard himself against it.

Kirin would be most likely a one shot kill, even for Kimimaro, but the question is, would Sasuke be able to pull it of ? And since Kimimaro managed to dig himself out from ~200 meters underground it should also work in the opposite direction, meaning he could hide underground to avoid being hit by Kirin.

So, what do you say ?

Oathencrantz
January 31, 2010, 06:49 AM
Kimimaro is one the few from part 1 that I believe could still be a nuisance to some of the current strong guys. If Kimi does the Dance of the Seedling Fern before Sasuke does Amaterasu, then I doubt he's ever be hit by it. Shit, it allows him to create a forest of bone and he could appear from any which one he wants. Not only that, the forest of bones comes from the ground so both Susanoo and Sasuke may, I repeat MAY, get spiked up the ass. It's just too bad Kimi was using his will alone to forcefully move a dysfuntional body at the time. ULTIMATELY though, Sasuke would win but not without some difficulty, I just can't see it with someone of Kimimaro's caliber.

LnDRash
January 31, 2010, 07:13 AM
It's just too bad Kimi was using his will alone to forcefully move a dysfuntional body at the time.

Funny thing is: If it wasn't for his disease or he had survived at least five seconds longer, Gaara would have died and as a consequence the One-Tailed Shukaku with him. Akatsuki would have never been able to extract it and all of Madara's plans would have gone down the toilet :P

Fox666
January 31, 2010, 07:24 AM
The 3 tails host died, remeber Deidara and Tobi chasing it?

LnDRash
January 31, 2010, 07:52 AM
Yes, I know it was free, but we dont know the reason why. Its save to say however, that when the host dies the bijū dies too, this is the sole reason why Kyūbi even bothers to help Naruto out.

Prince Sasuke
January 31, 2010, 08:25 AM
Not even close. Sasuke at the begining of part 2 before he absorb Orochimaru would win. A simple chidori would kill Kimimaro,and a simple Genjutsu would set it up.
Kimimaro was strong for his time, but his time was 3 years ago. There are several shinobis that can defeat him now. Sasuke wouldn't need MS to win.

LnDRash
January 31, 2010, 09:06 AM
Don't be ridiculous...

Even after he absorbed Orochimaru he had a tough fight against Deidara, even with the elemental advantage... and you are trying to tell me that Sasuke fresh out from the hideout would almost instantly kill him ? If it was as easy as you make it to trap somebody in a genjutsu and stab him with a chidori then the whole kage summit would be dead by now.

Prince Sasuke
January 31, 2010, 09:38 AM
You can't compare deidara to kimimaro. Deidara was one of the strongest in akatsuki he would kill kimimaro also.

Zatono
January 31, 2010, 10:28 AM
Lol @ Genjutsu + Chidori = Insta-kill. Kakashi should be up there with the Rikudo Sennin and Pain if things were as easy as that.

So, Kimimaro without disease, meaning that he can just abuse his Kekkai Genkai left and right, correct? He only has one problem, and that's Amaterasu. Susano'o using it's arrow is pretty strong, but if Kimi can make his bone as dense as he wants to, then he can make a bone shielding, or something, and make it as dense, or even denser then the rock the arrow failed to go through here.
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/478-26/10
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/478-26/11

Amaterasu, if it catches him, will be a pretty large problem, but it seems that if you're fast enough, you can avoid it, like Sasuke did for a while when he fought Itachi. Also, he really doesn't have to give Sasuke the time of the day to use Amaterasu, he can just spike bones up from underground and hide himself in them or something like that. Personally, I say this battle would be pretty even, a decent 50-50 here.

Close range combat is not an option for Sasuke, also, as seen here. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/211/18/ and here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/212/10/

Again, Amaterasu is his only real option, since Sasuke's Tsukuyomi really isn't that good.

Prince Sasuke
January 31, 2010, 10:56 AM
Lol @ Genjutsu + Chidori = Insta-kill. Kakashi should be up there with the Rikudo Sennin and Pain if things were as easy as that.

So, Kimimaro without disease, meaning that he can just abuse his Kekkai Genkai left and right, correct? He only has one problem, and that's Amaterasu. Susano'o using it's arrow is pretty strong, but if Kimi can make his bone as dense as he wants to, then he can make a bone shielding, or something, and make it as dense, or even denser then the rock the arrow failed to go through here.
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/478-26/10
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/478-26/11

Amaterasu, if it catches him, will be a pretty large problem, but it seems that if you're fast enough, you can avoid it, like Sasuke did for a while when he fought Itachi. Also, he really doesn't have to give Sasuke the time of the day to use Amaterasu, he can just spike bones up from underground and hide himself in them or something like that. Personally, I say this battle would be pretty even, a decent 50-50 here.

Close range combat is not an option for Sasuke, also, as seen here. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/211/18/ and here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/212/10/

Again, Amaterasu is his only real option, since Sasuke's Tsukuyomi really isn't that good.

I love how you think its lol when Kimimaro has no answer for Sasuke's GenJutsu plus chidori.

Kimimaro without Disease is no stronger then Sasuke at the begining of part 2. Sasuke is faster then Kimimaro so sharingan would make most of Kimimaro attacks useless.

Itachi's Amaterasu miss Sasuke because of Itachi being half blind, not due to Sasuke's speed. Besides Sasuke wouldn't need MS to defeat Kimimaro, its an overkill. Kimimaro is not kage level or in the same league with Sasuke. Maybe the thread would be closer if it was Neji or yamato in the battle besides Sasuke.

YamFrie
January 31, 2010, 11:04 AM
I was wondering if Kimmimaro could grow bones where he was hit by amaterasu.

Like this:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7645/imageqg.png


PS:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1650/image2ygo.png

khar2
January 31, 2010, 11:21 AM
well kimi showed speed on par with lee without gates, a speed sasuke had in his match with gara (lee said it himself)
so in 2nd part where sasuke is stronger, faster, has better defense and attack, can he be matched with one guy who is only dangerous in tai (hand to hand)
couse he never showed any Knowledge of nin or gen, so i guess his anti gen wasnt something admirable???

Hauradrims3
January 31, 2010, 11:25 AM
Notice how all the recent battles Sasuke was in, his opponents had genjutsu resistance. Itachi, kb, raikage, danzo heck even deidara had some training to resist genjutsu. It has to be like that otherwise a simple genjutsu could be a lethal attack like what kept happening to oro. Kimimaro without his disease is a beast, but he lacks that genjutsu resistance that is vital at this point in the manga. Imo sasuke would win. Now if it were kimimaro and naruto or raikage that would be very interesting. Two beasts battling it out without any genjutsu.

Sachsenhesse
January 31, 2010, 12:13 PM
And most of the they are arguing with Genjutsu did forget, that Sasuke never ever showed an Tsukuyomi on par with Itachi, it was even stated by Madara, that he is nowhere Itachislevel with genjutsu.

So i dont see, why Genjutsu should be such a big thread to Kimimaro, who had the very best defense we have seen in all the manga yet. I just dont believe he is helpless against Genjutsu. Just take Sasuke against Sasuke in this case... how could Sasuke get out Itachis Genjutsu? He activated the Cursed Seal --> another Chakra --> Genjutsu dispelled. Kimimaro also did have an cursed Seal.

And with the "kagelevel" Kimimaro actually killed an official Kage. (Kazekage), Sasuke has never achieved that, because Danzo is unofficial and the others where some little Intermezzos. Also you could say with Kimimaro the attack of Konoha would be successful, even Oro stated that. ^^

Oathencrantz
January 31, 2010, 12:16 PM
I love how you think its lol when Kimimaro has no answer for Sasuke's GenJutsu plus chidori.

Kimimaro without Disease is no stronger then Sasuke at the begining of part 2. Sasuke is faster then Kimimaro so sharingan would make most of Kimimaro attacks useless.

Itachi's Amaterasu miss Sasuke because of Itachi being half blind, not due to Sasuke's speed. Besides Sasuke wouldn't need MS to defeat Kimimaro, its an overkill. Kimimaro is not kage level or in the same league with Sasuke. Maybe the thread would be closer if it was Neji or yamato in the battle besides Sasuke.

First of all, it's very 'lol' when you think someone of Kimimaro's caliber would fall to something as basic as "A simple chidori would kill Kimimaro,and a simple Genjutsu would set it up" Yea, because Kimi would be standing idly doing nothing like a retard right? Riiiiiiight. You also seem to be forgetting that Kimi has a cursed seal on par with Sasuke's and he uses it just as good. Oh right, & what did Sasuke use to break out of Tsukuyomi again? The cursed seal and hatred (pretty much will power). & what does Kimi have? A cursed seal, love for Orochimaru and the same will power he was using to power a useless body; not to mention that Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is not as powerful as Itachi's. And who are you to say that Kimimaro without a disease would be no stronger than Sasuke at the beginning of part 2? Are you kishi now? How are you so certain? It's funny how people can easily accept that Itachi without sickness would become stronger (which I also believe) and become God (no), but can't accept that Kimimaro without sickness or Hiruzen in his prime would become much stronger. Cool, makes sense :facepalm. According to the databook, Sasuke's and Kimi's speed are on par with each other. And sharingan to predict and render all of Kimi's attacks useless? Are you forgetting that the dude is unpredictable due to the fact that his bones can protrude from anywhere? Think about it.


well kimi showed speed on par with lee without gates, a speed sasuke had in his match with gara (lee said it himself)
so in 2nd part where sasuke is stronger, faster, has better defense and attack, can he be matched with one guy who is only dangerous in tai (hand to hand)
couse he never showed any Knowledge of nin or gen, so i guess his anti gen wasnt something admirable???

Dance of the Seedling Fern is a ninjutsu, I think his only one shown actually.

Delbi
January 31, 2010, 01:22 PM
Kimi has no way of getting through Sussano, or for that matter stopping it, and he has no way to dodge or stop Ameratsu for the most part. Also has no way to stop Tsyukiyomi unless he wants to not look Sasuke in the eye.

Sasuke could fly on a Hawk above the forest of bones and just chill until Kimi decides to pop out.

Sasuke could win right off the bat if he wished as well with Ameratsu.

So, Sasuke all the way. IMO, without some kind of hack these days, you have little chance of defeating Sasuke. Madara, the Raikage, and maybe Killerbee can defeat him. No one else comes close that is alive.

kkck
January 31, 2010, 01:26 PM
I am inclined to believe kimimaru wouldoverall lose this one. MS would just be overkill. Sasuke has unbelievable speed, an already powerful weapon he can enhance, a wide variety of all purpose ninjutsu and good analitical skills. Kimimaru has too but IMHO sasuke has an edge. It also depends on how skilled kimimaru is with genjutsu. If his overall genjutsu skills -particularly escaping them- aren't at least considerably above average odds are sasuke would take him down with one regular sharingan genjutsu.

Prince Sasuke
January 31, 2010, 02:38 PM
First of all, it's very 'lol' when you think someone of Kimimaro's caliber would fall to something as basic as "A simple chidori would kill Kimimaro,and a simple Genjutsu would set it up" Yea, because Kimi would be standing idly doing nothing like a retard right? Riiiiiiight.http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page006.html I'm sure this simple Genjutsu followed up by a chidori would do the trick. Kimimaro couldn't do anything after the effect of the Genjutsu.
You also seem to be forgetting that Kimi has a cursed seal on par with Sasuke's and he uses it just as good. Oh right, & what did Sasuke use to break out of Tsukuyomi again? The cursed seal and hatred (pretty much will power). & what does Kimi have? A cursed seal, love for Orochimaru and the same will power he was using to power a useless body; not to mention that Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is not as powerful as Itachi'sSasuke didn't use CS to break the Tsukuyomi. Sasuke was already in the illusion before CS was used. IF Sasuke had used CS to break the Tsukuyomi, why was he in normal stated after it broke? http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-388/page011.html
And who are you to say that Kimimaro without a disease would be no stronger than Sasuke at the beginning of part 2? Are you kishi now? How are you so certain? By providing logic of two Jutsus Sasuke can use to take out Kimimaro.
It's funny how people can easily accept that Itachi without sickness would become stronger (which I also believe) and become God (no), but can't accept that Kimimaro without sickness or Hiruzen in his prime would become much stronger The only thing any of these shinobis would gain is more stamina and chakra... thats it.
According to the databook, Sasuke's and Kimi's speed are on par with each other. And sharingan to predict and render all of Kimi's attacks useless? Are you forgetting that the dude is unpredictable due to the fact that his bones can protrude from anywhere? Think about it.
I said most of his attacks, Taijustu alone can not beat Sasuke.

Zatono
January 31, 2010, 02:45 PM
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page006.html I'm sure this simple Genjutsu followed up by a chidori would do the trick. Kimimaro couldn't do anything after the effect of the Genjutsu.Sasuke didn't use CS to break the Tsukuyomi. Sasuke was already in the illusion before CS was used. IF Sasuke had used CS to break the Tsukuyomi, why was he in normal stated after it broke?

I'm pretty sure he DID use CS, because why the hell would it show Sasuke turning CS2 in the Tsukuyomi otherwise? He used the different chakra to break out of it, it's the only explanation for why Kishi would draw that, and then have Sasuke break immediately after. Being in the illusion before CS means nothing, as seen with Killer Bee who still used the 8-tails chakra to break out of Tsukuyomi after being put into the illusion.

To answer your question as to why he was normal after the Tsukuyomi broke, i'll ask you another question, Why was he shown in CS2 during the Tsukuyomi?

Prince Sasuke
January 31, 2010, 02:53 PM
I'm pretty sure he DID use CS, because why the hell would it show Sasuke turning CS2 in the Tsukuyomi otherwise? He used the different chakra to break out of it, it's the only explanation for why Kishi would draw that, and then have Sasuke break immediately after. Being in the illusion before CS means nothing, as seen with Killer Bee who still used the 8-tails chakra to break out of Tsukuyomi after being put into the illusion.

To answer your question as to why he was normal after the Tsukuyomi broke, i'll ask you another question, Why was he shown in CS2 during the Tsukuyomi?

Obviously he used it to help fight off Itachi and his clones. Chapter 388 Page 6-9. Fact is you can't prove it. Its not stated in the Manga or Databook that Sasuke use CS to break the Tsukuyomi. Sasuke admitted to using "Hate". http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-388/page015.html

Zatono
January 31, 2010, 03:04 PM
Obviously he used it to help fight off Itachi and his clones. Chapter 388 Page 6-9. Fact is you can't prove it. Its not stated in the Manga or Databook that Sasuke use CS to break the Tsukuyomi. Sasuke admitted to using "Hate". http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-388/page015.html

Chapter 388 Page 9 http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-388/page009.html

As soon as he fully turns CS2, the illusion breaks. A completely different chakra broke the illusion. Also, Sasuke didn't 'admit' to using hate, all he said was that it'd make his dreams turn into reality. He didn't outright say "My hatred broke your illusion." But while we're on this topic of feelings and blah blah being able to break illusions, then surely Kimimaro can use his willpower to break through an illusion. Fact is, neither of us can 'prove' what happened with that Tsukuyomi, but it's also fact that Kimi can turn CS2 and willpower his way through anything.

Prince Sasuke
January 31, 2010, 03:12 PM
Chapter 388 Page 9 http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-388/page009.html

As soon as he fully turns CS2, the illusion breaks. A completely different chakra broke the illusion. Also, Sasuke didn't 'admit' to using hate, all he said was that it'd make his dreams turn into reality. He didn't outright say "My hatred broke your illusion." But while we're on this topic of feelings and blah blah being able to break illusions, then surely Kimimaro can use his willpower to break through an illusion. Fact is, neither of us can 'prove' what happened with that Tsukuyomi, but it's also fact that Kimi can turn CS2 and willpower his way through anything.

You can't assume Kimimaro can break Tsukuyomi with will power or more chakra. Sure his will is strong,but this is Tsukuyomi we are talking about.

Zatono
January 31, 2010, 03:14 PM
You can't assume Kimimaro can break Tsukuyomi with will power or more chakra. Sure his will is strong,but this is Tsukuyomi we are talking about.

So Sasuke broke it because...?

Oathencrantz
January 31, 2010, 03:33 PM
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page006.html I'm sure this simple Genjutsu followed up by a chidori would do the trick.

Doubtful. If it was really as easy as you make it sound then most of the ninja Sasuke has faced would be dead.

Kimimaro couldn't do anything after the effect of the Genjutsu.

Awww, too bad Shi doesn't have a cursed seal on par with Sasukes, the will power to forcefully use a dysfunctional body and the undying resolve to serve Orochimaru. Throw a healthy body into the mix? Smh. Kimi's no noob.

Sasuke didn't use CS to break the Tsukuyomi. Sasuke was already in the illusion before CS was used. IF Sasuke had used CS to break the Tsukuyomi, why was he in normal stated after it broke? http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-388/page011.html

Sasuke did use the cursed seal (coupled with hatred) to break out of Tsukuyomi, why the hell else would Kishimoto illustrate this? Have you not thought that Sasuke used it whilst in the realm of Itachi's Tsukuyomi? Pretty blatant.

By providing logic of two Jutsus Sasuke can use to take out Kimimaro.

Erm, what? What logic? If you're talking about Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo, then too bad you didn't respond to mine or others solution on how Kimimaro may/could deal with those.

The only thing any of these shinobis would gain is more stamina and chakra... thats it.

Wasn't really the point I was making, so ya.

I said most of his attacks, Taijustu alone can not beat Sasuke.

Tell that to Killer Bee & the Raikage.

Seems like everyone's solution for Sasuke winning a fight is either a genjutsu or that stupid hawk, lol.

[hr]

You can't assume Kimimaro can break Tsukuyomi with will power or more chakra. Sure his will is strong,but this is Tsukuyomi we are talking about.

Yea, & Sasuke's is weaker than Itachi's.

Rikudou King
January 31, 2010, 03:35 PM
So Sasuke broke it because...? Sasuke had the Sharingan along with a strong will, Thus he had the tools to counter a genjutsu.

khar2
January 31, 2010, 03:40 PM
So Sasuke broke it because...?

ummmm..... By 3 years of training how to survive Itachis most preferable discipline, and its most precious attack, Tsukiyomi:D

hmm when sasuke uses CS chakra, seel starts to move around body
->in illusion we see him do it, but when he's out there are no outer changes
->so logical conclusion #1. would be, itachi wanted to decieve sauske in thinking he is losing battle and eyes, so if sasuke tried to activate seal, and itachi not making visual changes in illusion, sasuke would know he is in illusion
->so logical conclusion #2. would be, kishi just wanted to make some clifhanges, so he did battle his way, there is on explanation
->so you see it makes no sense that sasuke activated cursed seal, because there was no visual changes at all on his body just a sec after dispell, seal couldnt withdraw so fast nor sasuke could use it without usuall changes:D
on topis
->kimi is at best jounin type ninja with great KG, nothing more, i mean his speed was on par with lee, who said sasuke is fast as himso how could you say he is faster then now day sasuke
->also 2nd part sasuke was uber fast and he still wasnt fast to evade amaterasu, so i dont belive full health kimi would be able to do that without some hax abillity:D

lan2cp
January 31, 2010, 03:45 PM
You can't assume Kimimaro can break Tsukuyomi with will power or more chakra. Sure his will is strong,but this is Tsukuyomi we are talking about.

The same Tsukuyomi Danzou managed to brake without the use of willpower, hate or Sharingan (the Sharingan on Danzou's arm were only used for Izanagi not for seeing). ;)

Sachsenhesse
January 31, 2010, 03:48 PM
You could also interpret that the cursed seal, we saw is the visuell manifestation of the chakra thats cancels the genjutsu. Just to show us, That Sasukes union with the CS was useful against Genjutsu. Right now this is the best way to overcome a genjutsu, like Bee, a Genjutsu works on the chakra system, but when another chakra comes in your chakrasystem the genjutsu will fail. Remember "facing a shairngan only with 2 or more people"? thats for the genjutsus, and Sasuke was at that point 2 man, the same as Kimimaro.

khar2
January 31, 2010, 04:06 PM
The same Tsukuyomi Danzou managed to brake without the use of willpower, hate or Sharingan (the Sharingan on Danzou's arm were only used for Izanagi not for seeing). ;)

you are now comparing a kimimoro to danzo

->danzo who is schooled ,strong, old and experient ninja (few wars now and then):D with hand full of sharingans (genjutsu/anti genjutsu eye), and even him didnt know he is in gen when all eyes closed:D

->admit you just hate sasuke so much you come here and make all kind of crazy posts:D;) - i mean you hate him so much you dont realize how simular you are to sasuke (i mean in most positive way joke) :D live long and prosper:D
[hr]

You could also interpret that the cursed seal, we saw is the visuell manifestation of the chakra thats cancels the genjutsu. Just to show us, That Sasukes union with the CS was useful against Genjutsu. Right now this is the best way to overcome a genjutsu, like Bee, a Genjutsu works on the chakra system, but when another chakra comes in your chakrasystem the genjutsu will fail. Remember "facing a shairngan only with 2 or more people"? thats for the genjutsus, and Sasuke was at that point 2 man, the same as Kimimaro.

->and again when cursed seal is used it manifests itself, and also i dont think cursed seal is another chakra system inside you, or that it holds chakra of its own, its more like poison who helps you extract your chakra better, and thats how its boosting you:D i think its said that way (if anyone wants to look, i am tired now)
->also whats with that, CS isnt an entity closed in host, it cant wake you up from gen
->also sasuke is expert gen/anti-gen ninja, kimi never showed any affinity for using anything else except his KG

Sachsenhesse
January 31, 2010, 04:10 PM
->and again when cursed seal is used it manifests itself, and also i dont think cursed seal is another chakra system inside you, or that it holds chakra of its own, its more like poison who helps you extract your chakra better, and thats how its boosting you i think its said that way (if anyone wants to look, i am tired now)
->also whats with that, CS isnt an entity closed in host, it cant wake you up from gen

Yeah exactly thats the reason why Orochimaru did came out of Sasuke after he lost to the Cursed Seal by having no more chakra left...

Rikudou King
January 31, 2010, 04:15 PM
The same Tsukuyomi Danzou managed to brake without the use of willpower, hate or Sharingan (the Sharingan on Danzou's arm were only used for Izanagi not for seeing). ;) But Danzo didn't break out of it, His seal on Sasuke activated stopping Sasuke from continuing on.

Zatono
January 31, 2010, 05:14 PM
But Danzo didn't break out of it, His seal on Sasuke activated stopping Sasuke from continuing on.

That doesn't mean the genjutsu should automatically cease and desist, all that means is that he stopped Sasuke from attacking him while inside the genjutsu, but this is off topic.

Seriously, Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is crap, and if Sasuke could get himself out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi, which was ridiculously strong, then Kimi shouldn't have much trouble if he's in full freaking health. Kimi's will power equals Sasuke's hatred, and he has CS2 as well which is what broke Sasuke out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi, presumably.

Susano'o using the arrow won't be a threat to Kimi because of how hard he can make his bones. He'll just make them so dense and give himself a bone shielding that Susanoo's arrow just won't do anything to him. Kimi will just laugh it off.

The only real threat to Kimi is Amaterasu, not Susano'o. That's it. That's the only possible threat to him, and Amaterasu doesn't mean much if it burns incredibly slowly, and at any rate, Kimi could probabably avoid it by doing this. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/217/10/ and hide in one of the thousands of damn bone spikes until he decides to come out like this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/217/11/

In this situation, obviously flying around, like Gaara is doing, won't help Sasuke out. Sasuke will be forced to use his hawk that everyone loves so much if Kimi uses that technique, and then Kimi will impale him from behind. Assuming that a healthy Kimi can make even more bones then that, Sasuke is screwed. I'm also going to say that a healthy Kimi can make those bones grow as high as he wants, so screw the hawk, and Sasuke gets to die. Hell, the bones are already pretty high, check them out here. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/217/17/

It'd be pretty miraculous for Sasuke to summon his hawk in time to avoid that.

Delbi
January 31, 2010, 05:22 PM
It's kind of funny how people think Kimi's bones are some sort of super weapon, when they really aren't.

Are they strong as hell? You bet your ass they are. Are they strong enough to stop Sussano's Arrow? Considering the arrow, like Sussano, has no physical properties and is made up entirely of chakra, the answer is a resounding, no.

Sasuke's Chidori Sword might have a chance of cuttting through Kimi's bones. We have yet to see them withstand a powerful attack like Chidori, so it remains to be seen if they can be cut.

Kimi has no fucking way to get past Sasuke's Sussano. His attacks are no where near as powerful enough to break through it.

Also, where is the idea that Ameratsu burns slowly? The only time it ever burned slowly, was when it hit Karin. It burnt through Danzou in seconds, and also burnt through Sasuke's body in seconds. Not to mention it burnt down an entire forest in minutes, and as soon as it touched one of the white snakes the damn thing disintegrated.

And all this bullshit about Sasuke's Tsyukiyomi not being powerful is kind of retarded.

It isn't powerful when compared to Itachi's. But guess what, Itachi is the best genjutsu user in the entire history of the manga.

Sasuke's genjutsu, in case everyone forgot, was able to paralyze Orochimaru in his own demension. Orochimaru has a 5 in the genjutsu stat.

Not to mention, Shi, a fucking genjutsu type, got trainwrecked by Sasuke's Tsyukiyomi. So to say Kimi can resist such a genjutsu, when nothing has been talked about his genjutsu skills, is utter bullshit. If he gets hit with Tsyukiyomi, the fight is over and done with.

All in all, Kimi has nothing that is going to stop any of Sasuke's MS jutsu. And we also have to consider Sasuke's regular skills, which are all Kage Level.

So yea, Sasuke ass rapes Kimi and goes on to fight more Kage's and Jinchuriki. Kimi is fodder compared to Sasuke and the opponents he's been fighting lately.

Zatono
January 31, 2010, 05:52 PM
It's kind of funny how people think Kimi's bones are some sort of super weapon, when they really aren't.

Are they strong as hell? You bet your ass they are. Are they strong enough to stop Sussano's Arrow? Considering the arrow, like Sussano, has no physical properties and is made up entirely of chakra, the answer is a resounding, no.

Sasuke's Chidori Sword might have a chance of cuttting through Kimi's bones. We have yet to see them withstand a powerful attack like Chidori, so it remains to be seen if they can be cut.

Kimi has no fucking way to get past Sasuke's Sussano. His attacks are no where near as powerful enough to break through it.



I'm going to ignore what you've said about Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu for now, because there've been many great responses in this thread about how to overcome those, and I gave you one myself.

Now, about Susano'o, the arrow is certainly extremely powerful, but since Kimi can make his bones as hard as he wants, and Susanoo's arrow has failed to completely pierce through this bridge http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/3 on every occasion, Kimi can just make his bones as dense, or perhaps even a greater density, then the rocks, and shield his entire body completely, to the point where he'll bleed, but not be crushed inward nor pierced, as seen here, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/215/12/ http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/215/14

Actually, since Gaara has stated that he crushes minerals with his sand to get more sand, and I'm pretty sure minerals will be just as hard as rocks, not being able to crush Kimi with all of his might is a testament to how resilient to his bones are. What a seriously great KG.

Now, onto the matter of getting through Susano'o. There's no real evidence that there's some sort of shield where Sasuke stands when he's inside of Susano'o, so Kimi can just put bones up Sasuke's ass once he uses Susano'o. If he can't, then Sasuke can just stay inside of his Susano'o, getting his chakra and stamina eaten up while Kimi chills in his bone forest.

Now that that's over with, it really doesn't matter if Sasuke can or can't pierce his bones with Chidori, since Kimi can just stab Sasuke with bones out of his body if he gets close enough, or just reform the bones if they break. Also, stabbing him with a Chidori sword is probably out of the question because of Kimi's speed.

Delbi
January 31, 2010, 06:06 PM
I'm going to ignore what you've said about Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu for now, because there've been many great responses in this thread about how to overcome those, and I gave you one myself.

Now, about Susano'o, the arrow is certainly extremely powerful, but since Kimi can make his bones as hard as he wants, and Susanoo's arrow has failed to completely pierce through this bridge http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/3 on every occasion, Kimi can just make his bones as dense, or perhaps even a greater density, then the rocks, and shield his entire body completely, to the point where he'll bleed, but not be crushed inward nor pierced, as seen here, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/215/12/ http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/215/14

Now, onto the matter of getting through Susano'o. There's no real evidence that there's some sort of shield where Sasuke stands when he's inside of Susano'o, so Kimi can just put bones up Sasuke's ass once he uses Susano'o.

Now that that's over with, it really doesn't matter if Sasuke can or can't pierce his bones with Chidori, since Kimi can just stab Sasuke with bones out of his body if he gets close enough, or just reform the bones if they break. Also, stabbing him with a Chidori sword is probably out of the question because of Kimi's speed.

If Sasuke can see Kimi, he can hit him with Ameratsu. All he needs is a glimpse of his body and he can die.

If Kimi looks into Sasuke's eyes, he can use Tsyukiyomi and the fight is over. Nothing Kimi has is going to stop that from happening. Kimi's willpower is nothing like Sasuke's hatred. Sasuke's hatred is an off-shoot of his actual spiritual energy, willpower is nothing but the power of the mind over the body, and if you think for a second that Kimi's willpower exceeds Sasuke's, we have obviously been reading two different manga's.

Sasuke did not use the CS to help break Tsyukiyomi. He used the CS in the illusion, thus he never acutally used it in real life. The only thing that helped Sasuke break Tsyukiyomi was the fact he has a Sharigan, which Kimi lacks, and the fact the hatred that is his spiritual energy was so strong. Nothing else helped him.

As for there being no shield under Sasuke, he is fully eneveloped by Sussano, so I'd I'm inclined to believe an underground attack would do nothing. But believe what you want.

And are you saying Kimi is faster than Sasuke? Because there is no evidence that he is, not to mention that Sasuke has the Sharigan which can allow him to anticapate Kimi's moves.

Sasuke showed us when he fought Gaara in the Chunnin exams, he's fast enough to dodge the sand spikes that came out after he hit Gaara's sand ball with Chidori. He's even faster now, so I fail to see how Kimi's bones are going to hit him.

And Sasuke does have this thing called Sussano. He can errect the rib transformation and just block Kimi, or grab him with his hand like he did to Danzou and kill him with a number of techs. So Kimi's close range attacks can all be for naught.

Lastly for Sussano's arrow. Have you ever shot a gun? Titanium is stronger than a rock say, like Granite.

But I can shoot a certain bullet through a half inch of titanium, but not a foot of granite. This same logic can be used with Sussano's arrow and Kimi's bones. Just because they are super hard, doesn't mean they can stop the arrow because they lack the thickness of the bridge. Get it?

Rikudou King
January 31, 2010, 06:15 PM
That doesn't mean the genjutsu should automatically cease and desist, all that means is that he stopped Sasuke from attacking him while inside the genjutsu, but this is off topic.

Seriously, Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is crap, and if Sasuke could get himself out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi, which was ridiculously strong, then Kimi shouldn't have much trouble if he's in full freaking health. Kimi's will power equals Sasuke's hatred, and he has CS2 as well which is what broke Sasuke out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi, presumably. The seal messes with Sasuke's chakra, Thus he couldn't continue with the genjutsu. Trapping Kimimaro in a genjutsu will stop him for a moment, Giving Sasuke the edge he needs to land a finishing blow.

You can't compare Sauske breaking out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi to Kimimaro breaking out of Sasuke's Tsukuyomi. First thing, Sasuke again had the Sharingan, Which gave him help in breaking it along with his will and CS. Kimimaro doesn't have anything that can counter genjutsus. Secondly, Kimimaro would have no way to know he was in Tsukuyomi until it's too late. Sasuke's Tsukuyomi doesn't have any physical change from the real world. Third, Tsukuyomi strikes instantly, And unlike Itachi, Sasuke isn't gonna be taking his time.

Prince Sasuke
January 31, 2010, 06:19 PM
When its all said and done Sasuke broke Itachi's Tsukuyomi,and how he broke it has nothing to do with this battle since Kimimaro don't have Sharingan. Sasuke sharingan is said to be stronger then Itachi's, and sharingan is design for countering and breaking Nin,Gen,and Taijutsu. The only people has been shown to break Sasuke or Itachi Jutsu has a sharingan or a second party of chakra... Kimimaro has neither. So a REGULAR Genjutsu would break Kimi down to the point a chidori would finish him off. Its nothing but speculation and assumations if anyone thinks Kimi can break Sasuke Gen. His databook stats for Gen isn't high.


Susanoo,Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu is overkill.

LnDRash
January 31, 2010, 10:28 PM
If its so easy to capture somebody in genjutsu and kill him of then I wonder why Raikage is still alive.

I completely fail to see why Sasuke should be faster then Kimimaro, in the Data Book both have a 4.5 in speed and Sasuke lost his cursed seal while Kimimaro didnt, so physicaly Kimimaro is vastly superior.

Kimimaro may lack tools to completely counter things like Susanoo, Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi but he sure has ways to at least defend against it.

If he can create something like this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/216/12/ then he can also create a shield to block Sasuke's vision at him, blocking Amaterasu.

There are also multiple ways for Kimimaro to deal with Genjutsu:


The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the caster's chakra; this is called Genjutsu Release (幻術解, Genjutsu Kai). This can also be done by an unaffected ninja by applying a sudden surge of chakra into the affected person.

The second option is through intense pain not caused by the genjutsu and utilizing the resulting pain to bring their senses back in order (of the two options, the latter seems more effective in most situations, or at least is the easiest). This can involve breaking one's finger (like Shikamaru in his battle with Tayuya) or by simply applying huge amounts of stress on it.

Remember the Chunin Exams ? Some Jounin and even Sakura and Shikamaru where able to dispell Kabuto's Genjutsu, so I fail to see why an opponent like Kimimaro with insane willpower, determination and a cursed seal should be so helpless against it, this is not Itachis Tsukuyomi we are talking about.

As for Susanoo, those arrows shouldnt be much of a problem, since I'am pretty sure Kimimaro would engage Susanoo in melee combat,he should be fast enough to avoid Susanoo's fists and even when he gets hit, crushing him is pretty much imposible.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/216/16/

My conclusion from this:

Sasuke's MS Jutsus put a great toll on his body and he can only use them a few times. Kimimaro on the other hand has a defense that would be pretty troublesome for Sasuke and unlike Sasuke he has all the time he wants. He dosnt have to break Susanoo to win, all he has to do is the same as in the fight against Gaara: stay alive until his opponent is out of chakra.

lan2cp
January 31, 2010, 11:18 PM
you are now comparing a kimimoro to danzo

->danzo who is schooled ,strong, old and experient ninja (few wars now and then):D with hand full of sharingans (genjutsu/anti genjutsu eye), and even him didnt know he is in gen when all eyes closed:D

->admit you just hate sasuke so much you come here and make all kind of crazy posts:D;) - i mean you hate him so much you dont realize how simular you are to sasuke (i mean in most positive way joke) :D live long and prosper:D
<hr noshade size="1">

lol I actually enjoyed your post.. I really don't hate sasuke... what I really hate are the sasuke fanboys thinking that he can do evertything. But what I posted is what i think is true. We should take Danzou's sharingarm and assume that it was only useful for Izanagi and not for the other things sharingan is known for. If Danzou was able to get out of Tsukuyomi without even dispelling it, I think Kimimaro would be able to also.

PS. If sasuke really killed Karin this chapter, he's actually become one of my favorite characters.

Prince Sasuke
February 01, 2010, 12:57 AM
Raikage is arguably the fastest ninja in the Manga... Kimimaro isn't that fast.
I completely fail to see why Sasuke should be faster then Kimimaro, in the Data Book both have a 4.5 in speed and Sasuke lost his cursed seal while Kimimaro didnt, so physicaly Kimimaro is vastly superior.
with there speed being the same and Sasuke has MS, it allows Sasuke to counter his movements, and Strength maens little in Naruto'.
Kimimaro may lack tools to completely counter things like Susanoo, Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi but he sure has ways to at least defend against it.

Actually Kimi has none.
Remember the Chunin Exams ? Some Jounin and even Sakura and Shikamaru where able to dispell Kabuto's Genjutsu, so I fail to see why an opponent like Kimimaro with insane willpower, determination and a cursed seal should be so helpless against it, this is not Itachis Tsukuyomi we are talking about.
The CS isn't a outside Chakra so it dosen't matter. It dosen't have to be Itachi's Tsukuyomi. Its a sharingan Genjutsu is the problem, Tsukuyomi is not needed to defeat a shinobi in Genjutsu.
Sasuke's MS Jutsus put a great toll on his body and he can only use them a few times. As i said before Sasuke don't need MS to beat Kimimaro, Chidori, Sharingan, and Genjutsu is more then enough. Also, Sasuke can use MS ALOT, not just a few times. Sasuke has all the time he wants....He don't need Susanoo to beat Kimimaro, or any MS Jutsu.

Shikamaru and Kimimaro CAN"T win, if you want to set Sasuke up for a battle that could possibly give him trouble, then Match him with the Raikage, all other living Shinobis can't win.

Rikudou King
February 01, 2010, 02:13 AM
You make no sense, why should being fast protect from genjutsu ? It was specifically shown that Ee's enhanced speed allow him to react before Sasuke caught him in his sight.


You are completely ignoring the fact that the Genjutsu release dosnt need an outside force. It CAN be done by someone else if the Illusion proves to powerful for yourself to break it, but you can also do it yourself, this is what Jiraiya taught Naruto. If stoping your chakra flow and then boosting it with a cursed seal isnt enough to use this technique, then what ? Again: A genin level Sakura used this to break Kabutos Genjutsu. Genjutsu can only be broken if the person has forewarning or know they're in a genjutsu, Something that doesn't happen with Sharingan based genjutsus. A Sharingan based genjutsu acts instantly and affects the target for only a few moments, Before they can react. Sakura was able to break out of Kabuto's genjutsu because she had forewarning that it was a genjutsu. But Sasuke's genjutsu would take Kimimaro before he knew it and before he could break it. We saw this with Shi, Who clearly has excellent chakra control and would be the most likely to be able to break a genjutsu. Sasuke caught Shi (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/05/) and took him down in seconds (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/06/) before he could act. Even after he got out of it, He could barely move (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/463/08/). And if Sasuke chooses to use his Tsukuyomi, There's nothing for Kimimaro to realize that it's an illusion. So he wouldn't know to break out until it's too late.


Also, if you are saying he can use MS Jutsu alot, then count it how often he used it against Danzou. He used Amaterasu once, Tsukuyomi one or two times (if you count the minor illusion) maintained Susanoo for most of the fight and restored it once. Which resulted in him puking blood like crazy and the need of Karin to save him from dieing once again. Sasuke was puking blood because he had just been stabbed, A point that Karin highlighted.

khar2
February 01, 2010, 07:08 AM
lol I actually enjoyed your post.. I really don't hate sasuke... what I really hate are the sasuke fanboys thinking that he can do evertything. But what I posted is what i think is true. We should take Danzou's sharingarm and assume that it was only useful for Izanagi and not for the other things sharingan is known for. If Danzou was able to get out of Tsukuyomi without even dispelling it, I think Kimimaro would be able to also.

PS. If sasuke really killed Karin this chapter, he's actually become one of my favorite characters.

omg i saw your sig, omg that was BRUTAL, auch, ummm i feel pain every time i see it, great job man

->i know about hating part (but it was nice joke:D)
i know about what you mean, every time on these post you have fans and haters and somethimes it strange to read all those bashings so i know what you mean
->we see danzo in gen http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000272212/01.jpg, then worried face, then 2 panels, one showing calm face, and secund showing hand, making strange noise from eyes on hand
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000272212/02.jpg and then sasuke in bind
so i guess those 2 panels showed arm full of sharingans had something to do with breaking/see through/ genjutsu (i think i have made valid evidence)
->knowing how to break genjutusu, being able to break genjutsu, and just having strong willpower is big diference
->sasuke practiced for 3 years on anti-genjutsu/genjutsu plan, naruto just heard on how to break it, and kimi never showed any of techniques or anything close on anti-gen base so just having willpower wont do any good (not without technique)
->also about SPEED, we see lee and sasuke overpowering gara in speed, gara wasnt able to track them, so to say they totaly overpowered gara, and kimi with same gara didnt succeed nothing like that (what is the speed you are talking about)????
->also same sasuke, in all his speed couldnt evade amaterasu more then few sec, he had to get in fire so he can use substitution technique:D

DARK
February 01, 2010, 07:25 AM
With all of the Sasuke hax in the manga right now, do I even need to mention the rest?
This would be much more of a discussion if the fight was between Part I Sasuke and Kimimaro. They're both on equal ground, each having a Kekkei Genkai and a Level 2 Cursed Seal. Kimimaro is much better in close ranged combat than Sasuke, given the mechanic of his Kekkei Genkai. I don't know if Sasuke's Chidori (CS2 Chidori) would be able to break through Kimimaro's bone. Overall, I believe that Kimimaro would have won that possible battle if he fights at full strength (without disease).

ninjabot
February 01, 2010, 08:15 AM
You are completely ignoring the fact that the Genjutsu release dosnt need an outside force. It CAN be done by someone else if the Illusion proves to powerful for yourself to break it, but you can also do it yourself, this is what Jiraiya taught Naruto. If stoping your chakra flow and then boosting it with a cursed seal isnt enough to use this technique, then what ? Again: A genin level Sakura used this to break Kabutos Genjutsu.

Escaping Genjutsu isn't as simple as turning your chakra off and turning it back on. It's based on chakra control as well as Genjutsu expertise. For one, you've absolutely no way whatsoever of proving to us that Kimimaro has the expertise necessary to dispel Genjutsu with Kai, or to even catch on to the fact that he's been Genjutsu'd before it's too late.

Hell, Orochimaru has a friggin' 4 (or was it 5?) in Genjutsu and was completely subdued by both Itachi and Sasuke. And this wasn't even Tsukiyomi for christ sake. And the most recent chapter with Danzou shows us how easy it is to hit someone with a visual Genjutsu while their coming close to attack (and Kimimaro is a melee specialist, so he definately will try to take him at close range). http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/479/16-17/


A split second was all it took to render him Genjutsu'd.


I wouldn't call it a rape, but Sasuke wins decidedly, and without too much injury to himself. For one, Kimimaro's bone swords have been shown to cut trhough metal easily, but so has Sasuke's Chidorigatana. Infact, chakra laced weapons have been shown to ALWAYS come out on top against solid weaponry, so I'm gonna say Chidorigatana cuts through Kimi's bones based on that.

Likewise, Kimimaro would need Hachibi level speed and unorthodox fighting style (aswell as brute strength) inorder to give Sasuke a run for his money in a Taijutsu match. With the Sharingan, Sasuke won't be getting hit by any of Kimimaro's attacks up front unless Kimi tanks a blow from Sasuke inorder to deal one of his own. And then, there's no guarantee he'll survive that blow once it hits him. That, or Sasuke simply pulls one of these outta nowhere while Kimi's opting for a melee battle:http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/476/07/ I've no reason to believe Kimi could avoid an attack that appeared out of nowhere while he's already in range. Sasuke either pops his head off from here, or casts Amaterasu on him while holding him.

The only (only) way Kimamaro could have one this is if he performed that one jutsu that makes a forest of bone, but by making the mistake of not handicapping Sasuke and giving him knowledge of Kimimaro's jutsu, you've assured us that he has a counter for that. Once he goes underground, Sasuke stabs into the dirt and pierces him with one of his arrows from Susanoo (Sasuke can see chakra that's underground, proven against Diedara) or, he summons a hawk as Kimimaro begins the jutsu. Not to mention the bones attack at random points. There's no guarantee one would hit where someone of Sasuke's speed is standing.

jdw
February 01, 2010, 09:26 AM
Although he is strong, Kimimaro does not have the skills required to take this fight. It is just an impossibility unless Sasuke commits seppuku.

jdw
February 01, 2010, 09:42 AM
I'am done arguing here and I dont care about this topic anymore, because you Sasuke fanboys are so obsessed in proving and defending the absolute superiority of your darling that you completely fail to realize that such an topic is about the fight itself and not about which character has the longer e-peen.

I hate Sasuke and generally wish death upon him most days but I don't think he can lose this fight even if he tried. We don't really know how Kimimaro would be better than what we saw. We saw some limited strong skills from him, but nothing that puts him on Sasuke's level now. Back in those days, Kimimaro might have completely molested Sasuke or maybe it would have been a close fight. Oro wasn't even sure which body he preferred as his container, but now, Sasuke has had 3 years to grow and Kimimaro, who received some priase, and showed a few skills, just stayed dead.

jdw
February 01, 2010, 10:22 AM
I didn't think you were referring to me. I am not sure anyone would ever mistake me for a Sasuke fanboy. The thing is, certain things just are the way they are. Whether one is a Sasuke fanboy or Sasuke hater or Sasuke neutral, we can mostly all agree that Kimimaro's chance here is relatively small, probably less than 5%, probably more like 1-2%.

Zatono
February 01, 2010, 05:51 PM
I love how everyone is ignoring all of the great reasons as to why Kimi would win this fight, with ways to counteract Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susano'o, but yet everyone ignores it and just goes on to say "Lol genjutsu + Chidori". When has this really worked, besides on fodder? Why didn't Sasuke just use Tsukuyomi on Raikage if it was that easy?

Again, the forest of bones thing counteracts both Amaterasu and Susano'o, and even Tsukuyomi if Kimi uses it right off the bat. Kimi can obviously appear wherever he wants whilst in the bone forest, and Susano'o isn't going to help Sasuke if Kimi doesn't want to come out. Sure, Sasuke can just blindly fire Amaterasu, but that means low chakra and stamina depletion, while Kimi just chills in his bones.

There've been plenty of great reasons as to how Kimi can get out of Tsukuyomi, like the CURSE SEAL, which was obviously the reason Sasuke was able to break Itachi's Tsukuyomi. There'd be no other reason to show Sasuke going CS2 and then the Tsukuyomi magically breaking. I'm not even going to bother posting more links since I've already made enough posts with more reasons as to why MS, random genjutsu, taijutsu, chidori, and the damn hawk won't win this fight for Sasuke.

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 01, 2010, 06:01 PM
I think Sasuke win this. While Kimimaro is one of the few Part 1 characters that can give the current Sasuke a run for his money, i don't see him having enough to win. I don't think Kimimaro have anything to penetrate the Susanno, this where i think the fight will be won. Kimimaro's Hana couldn't even penetrate Gaara's Shield of Shukaku, so i doubt it can penetrate Susanno.

ninjabot
February 01, 2010, 06:49 PM
I love how everyone is ignoring all of the great reasons as to why Kimi would win this fight, with ways to counteract Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susano'o, but yet everyone ignores it and just goes on to say "Lol genjutsu + Chidori". When has this really worked, besides on fodder? Why didn't Sasuke just use Tsukuyomi on Raikage if it was that easy?


Because Raikage's synapses and reaction time is so high that his brain reacts literally too fast for Sasuke to entrap in Genjutsu. Kimimaro has no such advantage. He has shown no ability to escape Genjutsu. Thus, if he's caught (and why the hell wouldn't he be?) then he's screwed. It's really that simple.



Again, the forest of bones thing counteracts both Amaterasu and Susano'o, and even Tsukuyomi if Kimi uses it right off the bat. Kimi can obviously appear wherever he wants whilst in the bone forest, and Susano'o isn't going to help Sasuke if Kimi doesn't want to come out. Sure, Sasuke can just blindly fire Amaterasu, but that means low chakra and stamina depletion, while Kimi just chills in his bones.


Well, for one, the thread creator gave Sasuke prior knowledge on Kimimaro, so he knows about the jutsu. Secondly, the set up for the jutsu, as far as we know, requires Kimimaro to be under ground. That's a major warning sign for Sasuke. Thirdly, there's no way for Kimimaro to attack Sasuke if he flies on a hawk high above the apex of the bones. Kimamaro would had to reveal himself, at which point Sasuke would land out of the bone pillar's range, forcing Kimimaro to approach him.



There've been plenty of great reasons as to how Kimi can get out of Tsukuyomi, like the CURSE SEAL, which was obviously the reason Sasuke was able to break Itachi's Tsukuyomi. There'd be no other reason to show Sasuke going CS2 and then the Tsukuyomi magically breaking. I'm not even going to bother posting more links since I've already made enough posts with more reasons as to why MS, random genjutsu, taijutsu, chidori, and the damn hawk won't win this fight for Sasuke.


Let me get this straight...Sasuke, pre-MS uses Genjutsu often to subdue Juugo, the epitime of Curse Seal strength. And yet I'm supposed to believe Kimimaro can do better with his Curse Seal? Care to explain that one?

Listen, Sasuke's Uchiha blood aswell as his Magen: Chyouten broke him out of Tsukiyomi. The Curse Seal simply gave him a boost of chakra to push his natural talents even further. Because Kimimaro has NO such talent, the Curse Seal won't have the same effect. Just like with Juugo.

Until you prove that Kimimaro isn't susceptible to Genjutsu that is.

Rikudou King
February 02, 2010, 03:30 AM
The CS isn't another source of chakra, It just forces more chakra out of the user. It's still their chakra. Even with CS, Juugo still got trapped in Shi's genjutsu, Showing the CS has no advantage over genjutsu.

khar2
February 02, 2010, 05:30 AM
ohh man you are just putting parts of informations out of their Context

->CUrsed seal is enzime that provides you with abillity to use your chakra better

->sasuke trained for 3 years to battle itachi (genjutsu master), so its logical to assume he had extensive practice on genjutsu/ati-genjutsu base

->cursed seal didnt help jugo when sauske put him in genjutsu (no MS) and when chi put him in genjutsu(no sharingan genjutsu bust)

little info about kimmi
->he never showed any anti genjutsu abillities, so think what you want, you cant prove it(proving sasuke did it with CS is poor couse Jugo couldnt with his, a weaker gen)

->kimis speed was on par with Lee(no weights), who admited sasuke(pree skip)has same speed, so kimi and sasuke (preeskip) are of a same speed(and after skip sasukes speed was even higher)

->sasuke see's chakra under ground, so he would see forest coming up, so kimi cant suprise him

->also big problem, how will kimi get under ground, he never showed any seals, or doton jutsus, he only used his KG and taijutsu

->also strongest bone failed against garas shield (reread fight, i am not sure in that but i know reading something when kimis shield broke)

i value topic, i mean its great to debate something, but in this scenario, i dont see kimmi winning, not even against (no MS sasuke), peace and love people, try to be nice:D couse more you hate sasuke makes you more like him:D

benelori
February 02, 2010, 06:52 AM
Oh c'mon...are we talking about current sasuke...amaterasu and the job is done...it's less then a minute...not even mentioning susano'o...
Part 1 sasuke, would've been owned like hell, even with the disease...but now...way different level

mattiaildivino
September 21, 2011, 03:38 PM
Kimimaro would have owned sasuke if they had fought when kimi was alive and even if sasuke had been as he was when he fought naruto in volume 26,anyway here sasuke is too much, I guess...

Oathencrantz
September 21, 2011, 05:20 PM
Oh c'mon...are we talking about current sasuke...amaterasu and the job is done...it's less then a minute...not even mentioning susano'o...
Part 1 sasuke, would've been owned like hell, even with the disease...but now...way different level

Now I know for a fact that current Sasuke is stronger than Kimimaro, but I doubt it'll be as quick/easy as you put it. See, when it comes to Uchiha/Sharingan vs character B, it's always assumed (almost routinely) that wielder of the dojutsu will be the first to initiate the first move. Well this isn't always the case

So what would happen if Kimimaro uses Dance of the Seedling Fern, right away? Where would Sasuke aim his Amaterasu? What would he use his Tsukuyomi on? His only option would be to use Susano'o's wide attack range or a less taxing, non-MS technique.

Kazu-Sama
September 21, 2011, 06:41 PM
Great Fireball Jutsu - Kirin. Kimiaru can easily defend against attacks he knows are coming, but if Sasuke hits him with a Kirin, how can he survive?

Skidmore
September 21, 2011, 08:09 PM
Kimimaru seems pretty much as powerfull as Pre-MS Sasuke, which is quite something.

ninjabot
September 22, 2011, 05:21 PM
So what would happen if Kimimaro uses Dance of the Seedling Fern, right away? Where would Sasuke aim his Amaterasu? What would he use his Tsukuyomi on? His only option would be to use Susano'o's wide attack range or a less taxing, non-MS technique.


As of right now, that jutsu's attack radius is huge, but the bone formations are completely random. Sasuke just shunshins away from where the first bone pillar appeared from underground, looked down at the ground at the huge amount of chakra rising up, using it as a guide so he can tell where each bone is coming from. MS isn't required for that at all. And I'm thoroughly embarrased that people keep thinking Amaterasu is a necessity to win this fight in the first place.