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MangaHelpers
February 08, 2010, 06:59 AM
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 55522

MangaHelpers
February 08, 2010, 06:59 AM
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 54288

hhv94
February 08, 2010, 06:59 AM
Uh can someone tell me why MH took down the spoiler threads? Kind of surprised when I saw that this morning for the Naruto section. Hope they put it back up when or if spoilers get posted.

Katz
February 08, 2010, 07:38 AM
^well statistically speaking its monday morning, its abit early for spoilers, for any of the big three and opening the spoiler thread just gets people posting fanfics/predictions and fake pictures, but if whatever was submitted turns out to be a confirmed spoiler than it shouldnt take long for them to re-open it.

Googlez_kun
February 08, 2010, 10:34 AM
Yay,a new thread!:D

in the past we were used to get spoilers on wednesdays and the chapter on fridays,so yeah,just be happy that we get those a bit earlier now:p

Kaiten
February 08, 2010, 11:06 AM
Uh can someone tell me why MH took down the spoiler threads? Kind of surprised when I saw that this morning for the Naruto section. Hope they put it back up when or if spoilers get posted.

It was taken down because it was fake. At least the translation was :/

Brett Nado
February 08, 2010, 11:33 AM
Do you guys prefer part 1, which has a lighter tone and a more clear-cut attitude? Or part 2 because it deals with gray areas and responsibility?

Oathencrantz
February 08, 2010, 11:37 AM
Do you guys prefer part 1, which has a lighter tone and a more clear-cut attitude? Or part 2 because it deals with gray areas and responsibility?

Better to discuss this here: http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57793

kakashifan009
February 08, 2010, 01:21 PM
continuing from the end of the last thread, how have we seen alot of what Kakashi can do? The man typically uses chidori, hand to hand combat with his weapons and his sharinigan. For a man that knows 1000 jutsus we've barely seen what all he knows. Granted we'll never see them all, which makes it pointless to be like he has copied over a thousand jutsus, other than for the sake of making him sound powerful and cool, but still, it'd be nice to see some more new moves from him.

M3J
February 08, 2010, 01:23 PM
No spoiler discussion of any kind here, fake or not.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 01:41 PM
Kishi has done a horrible job at showcasing what Kakashi can do. Most of his fights end with him having to do a stay at the Konoha hospital. That's why I just don't know about him being Hokage. Then again, who else is out there? I know Kishi isn't going to give it to Naruto because it's still too early on in the series and that's probably how he wants to finish it.

Tsunade and Kakashi were both basically killed by a ninja that Naruto took on by himself. lol Just think about that. It doesn't look too good for either Tsunade or Kakashi.

jdw
February 08, 2010, 01:51 PM
Kishi has done a horrible job at

This seems to be following Kishi around like Konohamaru followed Naruto. Always there and quite conspicuous (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/2/07/).

M3J
February 08, 2010, 01:51 PM
Kishi has done a horrible job at showcasing what Kakashi can do. Most of his fights end with him having to do a stay at the Konoha hospital. That's why I just don't know about him being Hokage. Then again, who else is out there? I know Kishi isn't going to give it to Naruto because it's still too early on in the series and that's probably how he wants to finish it.

Tsunade and Kakashi were both basically killed by a ninja that Naruto took on by himself. lol Just think about that. It doesn't look too good for either Tsunade or Kakashi.

Tsunade isn't dead, nor was she fighting Nagato. Kakashi died by using up last of his chakra to save Choji, especially to help Konoha out, though he was defeated by Pain. And he was the second person to take out a body and the first without resorting to genjutsu, and probably nearly the first to take out Deva. Though, Pain did cause his death indirectly.
Kakashi basically did what Tsunade did, but died in the process. Jiraiya was killed by Pain by being stabbed, Tsunade went into coma because she used up so much chakra to heal and protect villagers, and Kakashi died from using up chakra. Kakashi, from what it looks like, had no info, like Jiraiya. Naruto did. And he had Sage Mode.

If Kakashi could take out a body and come close to taking out arguably the most powerful body and not die despite being trapped, in base mode, he would definitely be considered better than Naruto. I think Naruto took out only Deva Pain in base mode, whereas the others were killed in Sage Mode or as result of Sage Mode. Shinra Tensei saved Deva from Kakashi as well as Asura coming outta nowhere. :mad

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 02:01 PM
You can't compare what Jiraiya did with what Tsunade+Kakashi did. Jiraiya fought and killed several Pain bodies. It wasn't until he let his guard down and had to fight all 6 that he was killed. Kakashi died fighting what? One or two? And weren't there a bunch of Konoha shinobi around helping out? I know Choji and his dad even managed to take out a body, something that Kakashi couldn't do.

I don't see a comparison at all. If anything, it just shows how much greater Jiraiya was than either Tsunade or Kakashi.

And no, technically Tsunade isn't dead but to say she her current position isn't a direct result of Nagato is quite near-sighted. Maybe if she hadn't bitched so much at Nagato, he wouldn't have nuked the entire damn village.

Weapon_X
February 08, 2010, 02:02 PM
Kishi has done a horrible job at showcasing what Kakashi can do. Most of his fights end with him having to do a stay at the Konoha hospital. That's why I just don't know about him being Hokage. Then again, who else is out there? I know Kishi isn't going to give it to Naruto because it's still too early on in the series and that's probably how he wants to finish it.

Tsunade and Kakashi were both basically killed by a ninja that Naruto took on by himself. lol Just think about that. It doesn't look too good for either Tsunade or Kakashi.

Kakashi has been the closest person to kill Deva Realm. The teamwork he did with Chouji and his father into killing Deva Realm was a much better execution that what Naruto did when he was trying to kill Deva. Seriously, Kakashi would have fucked him up with that Chidori until Asura came out of nowhere. It took Kakashi 2 or 3 chapters to figure out Deva's ability, find his weakness and execute a perfect plan to catch Deva off guard...and all this was done in battle.

Without this info, Naruto would have been captured before you can say bob's your uncle lol If you swap Kakashi's and Naruto's fights with Pain, do you seriously think Naruto would have been able to find out everything about Deva as the same way Kakashi did? No way. Only with tons of info was Naruto able to win, and even with the info he was still pierced on the ground, gave in to the Kyuubi because he couldn't find a way to kill Deva, he had all the prep time before the fight, and he still couldn't do it.

What Kakashi can do in this manga is unbelieveable for a guy who's stamina is low. And he doesn't have any haxed abilities like most people do nowadays and yet he can find a way to kill that person, even with kamui he is the only one who uses a haxed ability as a last resort. That's how it should be lol

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 02:22 PM
Damn Kakashi apologists on this forum! :p

I'm just used to seeing Kakashi having every opportunity to win fights and it seems like he never does. Don't blame me, blame Uchiha Kishimoto!

zerocooldx
February 08, 2010, 02:34 PM
I hate to say it but Hashirama's DNA being within Danzo really seems to have been a deus ex machina to the fullest. I mean at least the Sharingan on his arm allowed us to learn of Izanagi, while with the Mokuton jutsu nothing "new" was showcased. Its only purpose seemed to have been to just avoid Susano'o's arrow and allow Karin to do some more play by play commentary. I'm hoping that more comes of Hashirama's DNA being within Danzou, but i doubt it. Especially since Danzo seems to really be dead.

Weapon_X
February 08, 2010, 02:36 PM
Kakashi has won against Zabuza first time round and the 2nd time round. After that you have to look at the opponents that Kakashi has faced. Itachi, Deidara, an immortal guy(Kakuzu), Deva Realm etc. They are tough opponents.

No one expected Kakashi to win against someone like Itachi. Kakashi is probably the worst guy(after Sasuke) who has faced a full blown Tsukiyomi by Itachi, the whole 73 days in a few seconds getting stabbed by swords was just, fucked up lol

Then we have Deidara. I'd say he won against him the first time round when he teleported his arm, and then teleported him so he wouldn't blow himself up and kill everyone around him. That was a victory.

Let's not get started with Kakuzu. The guy had literally 4 lives, that's not something normal lol

As I said, it's a normal Konoha ninja fighting haxed gods. On top of that everyone knows who Kakashi is, even Deva noticed that he can't let someone like Kakashi live. I'd say Kakashi has a good resume. XD

kakashifan009
February 08, 2010, 03:02 PM
I agree he has a good resume, I just wish we saw a bigger variety of all those moves he's suppose to know or have copied

Shinomori Aoshi
February 08, 2010, 03:17 PM
What Kakashi can do in this manga is unbelieveable for a guy who's stamina is low. And he doesn't have any haxed abilities like most people do nowadays and yet he can find a way to kill that person, even with kamui he is the only one who uses a haxed ability as a last resort. That's how it should be lol

So very true! Very much unlike some haxed-up kid we are seeing quite a lot lately...

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 03:25 PM
Pssshhh! Kakashi started with the h4x0rs when he gained his sharingan. He can't complain because people have become even more h4xed! lol

But yeah, from that list, Naruto and Sasuke were the ones that took out nins that Kakashi couldn't.

You all are getting me wrong. I have no problem whatsoever with Kakashi other than with the way he treated Naruto like step child way back at the beginning. But, to give Kakashi the title of Hokage with his track record is kind of weak. Like I said before though, who else is there? Personally, I'd rather Naruto become Hokage with Kakashi, Shikamaru, and Tsunade as his advisers. But... since I know that's not going to happen, I guess I'm just airing my complaints with how Kishi has handled Kakashi and his fights. IMO, he just hasn't been impressive.

All of the Kages at the Summit looked like they had the potential to take Sasuke down, I don't think Kakashi has that same potential.

The Noobslayer
February 08, 2010, 03:50 PM
Well EVERY single battle Kakashi has lost, it is because he exposed himself to save someone else. Every single time.

hakuthehedgehog
February 08, 2010, 04:00 PM
Well EVERY single battle Kakashi has lost, it is because he exposed himself to save someone else. Every single time.

Except against Pain. He lost fair and square IMO, however, he whould've lived if it wasn't for his last Kamui.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 04:08 PM
Everyone has fought with disadvantages/advantages before. No fights other than maybe the chunnin exam fights have been fought on equal ground.

Smokes
February 08, 2010, 04:10 PM
Except against Pain. He lost fair and square IMO, however, he whould've lived if it wasn't for his last Kamui.

That time he was saving Iruka. He revealed himself to save Iruka from getting destroyed. If it wasn't for that, he may have been able to launch a surprise attack.

Man, Kishi really makes Iruka seem worthless. He's a nice guy and all, but he needs to stay away from actual battles. No wonder Naruto didn't learn anything. :sweatdrop

The Noobslayer
February 08, 2010, 04:11 PM
Except against Pain. He lost fair and square IMO, however, he whould've lived if it wasn't for his last Kamui.

He wasted one on saving Choji's life, therefore would not even have died due to chakra loss. Nevermind the fact he was going to snipe Pain with the MS before the fatasses even showed up.

warbandit66
February 08, 2010, 04:12 PM
Does anybody think that Kakashi might actually be a more effective ninja without the sharingan?

The Noobslayer
February 08, 2010, 04:18 PM
Does anybody think that Kakashi might actually be a more effective ninja without the sharingan?

That's a good question, he wouldn't have it constantly sucking his chakra, or faint for a week after extreme use.

Though on the minus side, he wouln't be able to use Raikiri, wouldn't know 1000+ jutsus, would fair worse in taijutsu, couldn't use his sharingan related genjutsu.

Against Zabuza he showed he can fight without the sharingan, but we dont know how awesome he could have been. Though assuming that when he faces a tough opponent he automatically brings out his sharingan instead of fighting without it suggest he himself believes it offers tactical advantages rather than not using it.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 04:21 PM
Does anybody think that Kakashi might actually be a more effective ninja without the sharingan?
It's up for debate but don't forget that without it he would have died along with Obito. He was able to buy just enough time for Minato to get there to save his and Rin's asses.

Askia32
February 08, 2010, 04:29 PM
Does anybody think that Kakashi might actually be a more effective ninja without the sharingan?

It would be nice to have another incredibly strong person that doesn't use sometype of eye, or have some monster inside of him. On the flip side, the way Kakashi wears his headbad is what make him look so dope.

THETRUTH.com
February 08, 2010, 05:35 PM
I do think Kakashi has the potential to improve by tapping into Hatake Clan abilities. One of Kakashi's main inhibitors is his chakra supply. Kakashi might have the answer to this problem in his blood. The white chakra which becomes visible when he uses his fathers tanto. If there is more significance to this chakra than just color. Hopefully it has a sage type effect on a Hatake's chakra with the tanto acting as the oil does for natural chakra. So the tanto is a catalyst for something he has the ability to do naturally. Theoretically Kakashi could use less chakra, since it would be of a higher quality, to use or increase the strength of his techniques. So Kakashi chakra pool could stay the same but he could use it more effectively. In short Kakashi will have to make the same type breakthrough the Sannin made to get to the next level.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 05:43 PM
Didn't it break when Kakashi was defending Obito? If so, lot of good a broken tanto would give him. :p

Unless he takes it to the elves of Middle Earth so that they can reforge it! lol

M3J
February 08, 2010, 05:57 PM
You can't compare what Jiraiya did with what Tsunade+Kakashi did. Jiraiya fought and killed several Pain bodies. It wasn't until he let his guard down and had to fight all 6 that he was killed. Kakashi died fighting what? One or two? And weren't there a bunch of Konoha shinobi around helping out? I know Choji and his dad even managed to take out a body, something that Kakashi couldn't do.

I don't see a comparison at all. If anything, it just shows how much greater Jiraiya was than either Tsunade or Kakashi.

And no, technically Tsunade isn't dead but to say she her current position isn't a direct result of Nagato is quite near-sighted. Maybe if she hadn't bitched so much at Nagato, he wouldn't have nuked the entire damn village.
Jiraiya was in Sage Mode though. Kakashi was in base mode and up against one of the strongest body. Jiraiya didn't fight all six though, to be correct. He merely went to get a closer look. Kakashi wouldn't have died if he didn't have to/try to save Choji. He was still alive. And Kakashi did take out a body, or came close to, at least twice. Sage Mode gave Jiraiya some protection, but Kakashi's only protection was Sharingan's ability to predict moves, and he still didn't do too bad.


Damn Kakashi apologists on this forum! :p

I'm just used to seeing Kakashi having every opportunity to win fights and it seems like he never does. Don't blame me, blame Uchiha Kishimoto!

Well, he usually has to fight with others or he's up against uber enemies. He did get a raikiri in Kakuzu out of nowhere, but Kakuzu had a lot of lives. X_X And knew lot of elements.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 06:27 PM
Sage Mode = Sharingan(ok maybe this one should be by itself because it's MOST hax but whatever) = Rinnegan = Byakugan(lol if it even exists anymore) = Mokuton = Hyoton = MouthHands(Deidara) = Human Puppet = Multiple lives/hearts = Immortal = blah blah = etc...

They're all haxes/abilites.

Why would you bring up Jiraiya using SM? Of course he's going to use it, he'd be dumb if he didn't.

Basically what I'm saying is that as soon as Kakashi lifts up his headband to reveal his sharingan, he's essentially in his "hax" mode.
[hr]
Wow, Kishi really needs to show some panels with Naruto this week. I just realized that in my post about haxes, Naruto and the Kyuubi didn't even pop into my head. :facepalm

I had almost completely forgotten that Naruto was even a character in his own manga. lol

Delbi
February 08, 2010, 06:27 PM
Didn't it break when Kakashi was defending Obito? If so, lot of good a broken tanto would give him. :p

Unless he takes it to the elves of Middle Earth so that they can reforge it! lol

I don't see why Kakashi can't remake it better than ever lol. The fact that the old one broke in the way it dead makes me believe it was rather weak to begin with, or it wasn't his fathers.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 06:33 PM
Wasn't there another special tanto? I think it belonged to Tobirama. Who broke that? Or was it anime only?... Hmm

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 08, 2010, 07:02 PM
I don't see why Kakashi can't remake it better than ever lol. The fact that the old one broke in the way it dead makes me believe it was rather weak to begin with, or it wasn't his fathers.

I think the fact that it broke is kinda like a way to keep people from questioning Kakashi not using it anymore. If it hadn't then people, like me, would have been asking when Kakashi isn't using it. Even though it broke, i'm still asking why Kakashi isn't using it. He can just repair it or get a new one. Or get a chakra sword, kind of like Asuma's trench knife.

Cykai
February 08, 2010, 07:11 PM
Wasn't there another special tanto? I think it belonged to Tobirama. Who broke that? Or was it anime only?... Hmm

yeah it was filler. the sword was called raijin, gift from the kazekage to the 2nd hokage.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 07:12 PM
Kakashi isn't using it because I honestly don't think there's anything special to it. Just like I have big doubts about any future revelations on white chakra.

Thinking about it though, it'd be cool if Kishi pulled out some type of "Fang" mode that Kakashi has to learn through his dogs in their summon World/area/mountain/whatever they have.

Then again, that might take away from his central Uchiha themed storyline. And we can't have that now can we? :p

Weapon_X
February 08, 2010, 07:15 PM
Imagine Sasuke has prepared a Kirin for Kakashi and the next thing you see, Kakashi cuts the lightning lol.

Sasuke: NOOOO! All the time I set up for Kirin!
Madara: *facepalm*
Kakashi: ROFL

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 07:19 PM
Imagine Sasuke has prepared a Kirin for Kakashi and the next thing you see, Kakashi cuts the lightning lol.

Sasuke: NOOOO! All the time I set up for Kirin!
Madara: *facepalm*
Kakashi: ROFL

Kakashi can already do that without a blade.

Lightning Cutter AKA Raikiri. (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Lightning_Cutter)

warriorofvirtue
February 08, 2010, 07:20 PM
I do think Kakashi has the potential to improve by tapping into Hatake Clan abilities. One of Kakashi's main inhibitors is his chakra supply. Kakashi might have the answer to this problem in his blood. The white chakra which becomes visible when he uses his fathers tanto. If there is more significance to this chakra than just color. Hopefully it has a sage type effect on a Hatake's chakra with the tanto acting as the oil does for natural chakra. So the tanto is a catalyst for something he has the ability to do naturally. Theoretically Kakashi could use less chakra, since it would be of a higher quality, to use or increase the strength of his techniques. So Kakashi chakra pool could stay the same but he could use it more effectively. In short Kakashi will have to make the same type breakthrough the Sannin made to get to the next level.

as much as I'd like to have more info on this I wish they'd expose more byakugan, rinnegan and senju backrounds as well.

Weapon_X
February 08, 2010, 07:28 PM
Kakashi can already do that without a blade.

Lightning Cutter AKA Raikiri. (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Lightning_Cutter)

:blink I know. I was referring to Gai's comment in the Chuunin exams when Kakashi cut lightning itself. He could do the same thing to Sasuke's Kirin lol

Razziel
February 08, 2010, 07:31 PM
Sorry to interrupt u guys but I got a question...
does anyone remember a good water technique? Because water seems to be the worst element...I mean, did we ever see a water technique that actually did some damage, besides just pushing someone away? Suigetsu is a bit special cause he can turn his whole body to water which is quite nice, but no other water user could do it anyway...all those water dragons and well, BIG water skills were just...alot of water...seems like nothing special.
and Kisame had an insane chakra pool, so imagine what he could do with lightning or fire if he had it.
his water was just for drowning ppl...

brizzlle
February 08, 2010, 07:49 PM
Sorry to interrupt u guys but I got a question...
does anyone remember a good water technique? Because water seems to be the worst element...I mean, did we ever see a water technique that actually did some damage, besides just pushing someone away? Suigetsu is a bit special cause he can turn his whole body to water which is quite nice, but no other water user could do it anyway...all those water dragons and well, BIG water skills were just...alot of water...seems like nothing special.
and Kisame had an insane chakra pool, so imagine what he could do with lightning or fire if he had it.
his water was just for drowning ppl...

kisame's last jutsu was pretty good. Im pretty sure the second hokage had some badass techs too.

CBlitz
February 08, 2010, 07:49 PM
:blink I know. I was referring to Gai's comment in the Chuunin exams when Kakashi cut lightning itself. He could do the same thing to Sasuke's Kirin lol

...
wow
that's an awesome idea, I hope Kakashi actually does that during their fight. The pure unadulterated win would be awesome :smile-big

Phoenix946
February 08, 2010, 08:23 PM
Sorry to interrupt u guys but I got a question...
does anyone remember a good water technique? Because water seems to be the worst element...I mean, did we ever see a water technique that actually did some damage, besides just pushing someone away? Suigetsu is a bit special cause he can turn his whole body to water which is quite nice, but no other water user could do it anyway...all those water dragons and well, BIG water skills were just...alot of water...seems like nothing special.
and Kisame had an insane chakra pool, so imagine what he could do with lightning or fire if he had it.
his water was just for drowning ppl...

Afaik fire is even worse. Is there a single katon jutsu that has done serious damage? It seems to be mostly for jumping away in a flashy style.
I guess Asuma's can be counted, although that was to himself -_-;

CBlitz
February 08, 2010, 08:27 PM
well amaterasu took off Raikage's arm, so I guess the enton variant isn't as useless as the normal ones. And water style techs are more useful for defense than offense

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 08:35 PM
Guys guys... lets stop pretending like every jutsu has the potential to do harm. Out of all the jutsus we've seen, there are only a few that have actually hurt people.

niblack89
February 08, 2010, 08:40 PM
So jirayia, Orouchimaru and Tsunade actually trained under the hokage and not a jounin. looking at Danzo's flash back we can tell that Hiruzen was around really early twenties oldest being twenty three. look here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/405/17/)
Hiruzen looks younger than Jirayia when he began training Yahiko's group

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 08:44 PM
So jirayia, Orouchimaru and Tsunade actually trained under the hokage and not a jounin. looking at Danzo's flash back we can tell that Hiruzen was around really early twenties oldest being twenty three. look here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/405/17/)
Hiruzen looks younger than Jirayia when he began training Yahiko's group

Yeah, apparently it's been done a few times.

Hashirama and Tobirama were both Hokage when they took Hiruzen under their wing.

Hiruzen took the Sannin under his wing.

And Tsunade took Sakura under her wing after she became Hokage.

Igniel
February 08, 2010, 08:53 PM
Yeah, apparently it's been done a few times.

Hashirama and Tobirama were both Hokage when they took Hiruzen under their wing.

Hiruzen took the Sannin under his wing.

And Tsunade took Sakura under her wing after she became Hokage.

I think the Hokage to student relationship is huge in Konoha. Look how welcomed Kakashi's nomination for Hokage was accepted by the Fire Nation Lord based on his lineage.

Look at Konoha's history in the matter:
1st & 2nd --> mentored Sarutobi
Sarutobi --> mentored Jiraiya, Orochimaru & Tsunade
Jiraiya --> mentored the 4th
the 4th --> mentored Kakashi
Kakashi --> mentored Naruto, Sasuke & Sakura.

Then we have each Sannin personally mentoring Naruto (J-man), Sakura (Tsunade) & Sasuke (Orochimaru).

Not going into who was/will become Hokage, but each of the pupils selected by any given mentors above I'd say it is safe to assume that (if they haven't proven themselves already) has an extremely high chance of showing much promise/skill given the simple fact of who their senseis are.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 09:01 PM
Well it's probably because the Hokages get first dibs on students. :p

And apparently they only take kids under their wing whenever they feel like it. So they have to see something really exceptional in a group of kids and in Kakashi's case, the kids themselves have to prove themselves to be exceptional.

c0nflikt
February 08, 2010, 09:40 PM
I think the Hokage to student relationship is huge is Konoha. Look how welcomed Kakashi's nomination for Hokage was accepted by the Fire Nation Lord based on his lineage.

Look at Konoha's history in the matter:
1st & 2nd --> mentored Sarutobi
Sarutobi --> mentored Jiraiya, Orochimaru & Tsunade
Jiraiya --> mentored the 4th
the 4th --> mentored Kakashi
Kakashi --> mentored Naruto, Sasuke & Sakura.

Then we have each Sannin personally mentoring Naruto (J-man), Sakura (Tsunade) & Sasuke (Orochimaru).

Not going into who was/will become Hokage, but each of the pupils selected by any given mentors above I'd say it is safe to assume that (if they haven't proven themselves already) has an extremely high chance of showing much promise/skill given the simple fact of who their senseis are.

I always thought this was interesting that team 7 was trained by most of the candidates to be the 5th and 6th and thus it seems as if they gave us this info in chapter it would be all too obvious who would become hokage.

Razziel
February 08, 2010, 09:48 PM
Killer bee could just send some lightning in that water when Kisame was in it and shock him nicely (when they were both in that big watter bubble).Instant shark-fin soup! Dunno why he hasn't done that heh

Darth Executor
February 08, 2010, 10:11 PM
probably because kisame would just absorb it, assuming killerbee could generate that much electricity in the first place.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 10:16 PM
Killer bee could just send some lightning in that water when Kisame was in it and shock him nicely (when they were both in that big watter bubble).Instant shark-fin soup! Dunno why he hasn't done that heh

Probably because Sabu and Ponta were in the bubble for a majority of the time too.

CBlitz
February 08, 2010, 10:18 PM
I'm pretty sure KB would shock himself as well so that would be pretty lol move on his part

M3J
February 08, 2010, 10:32 PM
Why would you bring up Jiraiya using SM? Of course he's going to use it, he'd be dumb if he didn't.

Basically what I'm saying is that as soon as Kakashi lifts up his headband to reveal his sharingan, he's essentially in his "hax" mode.

The point I was making is that Sage MOde gave JIraiya more advantage than Sharingan gave Kakashi. He's still in base mode, Jiraiya isn't. Sharingan doesn't affect anything, but Sage Mode increases strength, endurance, durability, and speed.


Wasn't there another special tanto? I think it belonged to Tobirama. Who broke that? Or was it anime only?... Hmm

Anime only. Tanto was given to that weird dude, which was cracked by Sasuke's chidori and broken by Naruto's rasengan, which in turn made Sasuke jealous and set things in motion. I'm embarrassed I remember watching the fillers and even more embarrassed I got the tanto guy mixed up with the guy that summoned lightning out of nowhere, the person who I think fought Neji, Rock Lee, Naruto, and etc when Rock Lee had special curry. I'm even more embarrassed to have gotten that far into the fillers after Naruto vs. Sasuke ended.

SupremeMod
February 08, 2010, 10:37 PM
The point I was making is that Sage MOde gave JIraiya more advantage than Sharingan gave Kakashi. He's still in base mode, Jiraiya isn't. Sharingan doesn't affect anything, but Sage Mode increases strength, endurance, durability, and speed.



Anime only. Tanto was given to that weird dude, which was cracked by Sasuke's chidori and broken by Naruto's rasengan, which in turn made Sasuke jealous and set things in motion. I'm embarrassed I remember watching the fillers and even more embarrassed I got the tanto guy mixed up with the guy that summoned lightning out of nowhere, the person who I think fought Neji, Rock Lee, Naruto, and etc when Rock Lee had special curry. I'm even more embarrassed to have gotten that far into the fillers after Naruto vs. Sasuke ended.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x271/SupremeMod/mrtlol.gif

Are you kidding me? Kishi literally gives it a new power/jutsu/ability/h4x every 50 chapters or so. It's not my fault Kakashi sucks at using it. :p

edit:

Like I said before though, Jiraiya using SM is the same as Kakashi using his sharingan to me. So I still don't really see why SM was brought up. I mean Kakashi had to use his sharingan and MS to fight too.

I think of it like this:
Kakashi w/out using sharingan - base
Kakashi with sharingan and/or MS - hax mode

Jiraiya w/out SM - base
Jiraiya with SM - hax mode

Darth Executor
February 09, 2010, 12:07 AM
sharingan lets kakashi copy jutsu and improves his reaction speed. possibly aids with genjutsu too

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 12:30 AM
The normal Sharigan does not give half the advantages that Sage Mode does. I'm talking 3 Tomoe, not MS.

Sharigan:
Increased perception, things literally slow down for the user.
Able to see the color of chakra.
Genjutsu abilities and hypnotic genjutsu abilities. (same thing more or less)

Sage Mode:
Increased Strength
Increased Speed
Increased Durability
More powerful chakra
Sensing Abilities
Extended Reach with Natural Energy when it comes to Taijutsu

So yea, Sage Mode kicks the hell out of the regular Sharigan.

SupremeMod
February 09, 2010, 12:36 AM
[hr]

The normal Sharigan does not give half the advantages that Sage Mode does. I'm talking 3 Tomoe, not MS.

Sharigan:
Increased perception, things literally slow down for the user.
Able to see the color of chakra.
Genjutsu abilities and hypnotic genjutsu abilities. (same thing more or less)

Sage Mode:
Increased Strength
Increased Speed
Increased Durability
More powerful chakra
Sensing Abilities
Extended Reach with Natural Energy when it comes to Taijutsu

So yea, Sage Mode kicks the hell out of the regular Sharigan.

A master with a rock could defeat a novice with a shuriken! :p

But seriously, Kakashi's base is no sharingan. If he lifts the headband, he's no longer in base mode. If he activates MS, he's even hax lvl2!

The J-man only went hax lvl1! lol

There's no way you can call Kakashi using the MS "base Kakashi."

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 12:41 AM
I don't know what all this base and hax bullshit is, but Sage Mode clearly gives the user many more advantages than the normal Sharigan.

Also, Kakashi is an expert with the Sharigan, his usage rivals that of Sasuke and Itachi, he is the only non-Uchiha to achieve MS.

SupremeMod
February 09, 2010, 12:47 AM
I just found fault in M3J's thinking. Kakashi wasn't in his base because he was using his sharingan and MS. lol That's not base at all.

Igniel
February 09, 2010, 01:15 AM
I don't know what all this base and hax bullshit is, but Sage Mode clearly gives the user many more advantages than the normal Sharigan.

Also, Kakashi is an expert with the Sharigan, his usage rivals that of Sasuke and Kakashi, he is the only non-Uchiha to achieve MS.

Itachi even commended Kakashi on his sharingan usage, which says a lot about his skill. And as we all know, his only draw-back is his low chakra supply in conjunction with not having Uchiha blood to lessen the chakra requirements for its usage.

SupremeMod
February 09, 2010, 03:00 AM
Kakashi and Danzou are the two people that have used the sharingan without having to be an Uchiha. Danzou was wielding 10 and using their ultimate jutsu while Kakashi struggled with one and still doesn't even seem close to learning it's limits.

So yeah, once again, Kakashi doesn't look too good when compared to other people.

No matter how you dice it, Kishi has made it look like Kakashi is second string all the way.

Moon Stricken
February 09, 2010, 03:36 AM
Kakashi and Danzou are the two people that have used the sharingan without having to be an Uchiha. Danzou was wielding 10 and using their ultimate jutsu while Kakashi struggled with one and still doesn't even seem close to learning it's limits.

So yeah, once again, Kakashi doesn't look too good when compared to other people.

No matter how you dice it, Kishi has made it look like Kakashi is second string all the way.

Uhh...Danzou STOLE sharingan abilities. Kakashi (Not being a Uchiha) CREATED his own MS ability. Kakashi is definitely not second string. Not even Itachi or Sasuke was able to just seemingly create his MS ability. He has to kill Shusui.

apathism
February 09, 2010, 04:58 AM
Kakashi and Danzou are the two people that have used the sharingan without having to be an Uchiha. Danzou was wielding 10 and using their ultimate jutsu while Kakashi struggled with one and still doesn't even seem close to learning it's limits.

So yeah, once again, Kakashi doesn't look too good when compared to other people.

No matter how you dice it, Kishi has made it look like Kakashi is second string all the way.

Kakashi is well known in the Naruto-verse as Copy-Ninja Kakashi. When he shows up, people know who he is.

The only reason Kakashi is looking second-string, is because many of the adversaries have been Kage-Level and higher.

But I agree, Kishi hasn't been giving Kakashi as many good opportunities to fight as he deserves.

AlB
February 09, 2010, 05:01 AM
Kakashi is well known in the Naruto-verse as Copy-Ninja Kakashi. When he shows up, people know who he is.

The only reason Kakashi is looking second-string, is because many of the adversaries have been Kage-Level and higher.

But I agree, Kishi hasn't been giving Kakashi as many good opportunities to fight as he deserves.

doesn't give him many good opportunities? kaka vs itachi, deidara, hidan, kakuzu, pain, I don't recall deidara, kakuzu or hidan being kage level

kai-uchiha
February 09, 2010, 05:05 AM
Kakashi and Danzou are the two people that have used the sharingan without having to be an Uchiha. Danzou was wielding 10 and using their ultimate jutsu while Kakashi struggled with one and still doesn't even seem close to learning it's limits.

So yeah, once again, Kakashi doesn't look too good when compared to other people.

No matter how you dice it, Kishi has made it look like Kakashi is second string all the way.

actually the reason why danzou was able to sustain 11 sharingan's in his body without feeling the strain of it, is because he had the shodai hokage's cells in his body(which increased his chakra capabilities), according to the all seeing madara:p

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/478/11/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/478/12/

jdw
February 09, 2010, 06:04 AM
The normal Sharigan does not give half the advantages that Sage Mode does. I'm talking 3 Tomoe, not MS.

Sharigan:
Increased perception, things literally slow down for the user.
Able to see the color of chakra.
Genjutsu abilities and hypnotic genjutsu abilities. (same thing more or less)

Sage Mode:
Increased Strength
Increased Speed
Increased Durability
More powerful chakra
Sensing Abilities
Extended Reach with Natural Energy when it comes to Taijutsu

So yea, Sage Mode kicks the hell out of the regular Sharigan.

When you strangely leave out (one of) the most important advantage of regular Sharingan, of course you can make sage mode seem like it kicks the hell out of it.

Sharingan can copy jutsu. I repeat, Sharingan can copy jutsu. This ability alone makes Sharingan kick the shit out of sage mode. Even if you don't think it does alone, add it to the other abilities (like you should have from the start) and sharingan tops sage mode. It not only can it level you up infinitely, but it makes your opponent afraid their jutsu can fall into enemy hands and can affect their fighting mentality, etc.

Also, once you have normal sharingan, it is pretty much yours to use with your chakra abilities as the only limit. You don't have to kill yourself coming up with ways to get into sharingan mode, or have a countdown timer -_-;

Destined_One
February 09, 2010, 06:49 AM
doesn't give him many good opportunities? kaka vs itachi, deidara, hidan, kakuzu, pain, I don't recall deidara, kakuzu or hidan being kage level

You wouldn't recall it because the term 'Kage level' is so subjective, its use is rather silly. What constitutes the correct amount of strength to be considered kage level? Deidara, defeated a kage, yet obviously that is not enough. Kakuzu battled Kakashi, who was seen fit by Konoha to take the reign's as hokage, and for the most part bested him. It is clear that not every Kage who lived was as strong as Hashirama or Hiruzen, however you can't exactly criticize the strength of those 3. In their defense they are seen as S Ranked shinobi, in the same class as Kakashi, if not greater. It's not their fault, Pain called them away at Shika and co. convenience or in Deidara's case, made Sasuke's abilities the perfect counter for everything he had. There aren't many ninja's who could defend against Deidara's C4 Garuda, or Hidan's ceremony, let a lone a ninja with all elements and 5 lives. If Kage level means that they possess the combat prowess needed to be a Kage, then they clearly do.

3c
February 09, 2010, 07:46 AM
Meh, the copy ability of the sharingan is completely forgotten by Kishi. It's as if it was never even introduced except when it comes to Kakashi. Sasuke hasn't even used a "copied" jutsu since Lee IIRC, and we don't even know if Itachi or Madara ever copied a jutsu. Kakashi seems to be the only sharingan wielder that is known and actually uses copied jutsus, as if he's the only one able to copy jutsus with his sharingan. I don't think this ability makes the sharingan outclass Sage Mode at all. If anything then the only chance sharingan has at getting a shot at outclassing Sage Mode is if we count in the Mangekyou form, then it will outclass Sage Mode in terms of usefulness.

Sage Mode >>>>> Regular Sharingan. Just look at the absurd power up Naruto went through simply by achieving Sage Mode. He went from an avarage monster wielding ninja with an insanely powerful jutsu that was barely above chuunin level to become a Kage level ninja. Naruto went from an underdog to a God with Sage Mode alone! There's no way the regular sharingan can measure to that upgrade. A character like Naruto pre-Sage Mode that gained a regular 3 tomoe sharingan would not even be close to the ninja he could become with Sage Mode instead.

Though MS most likely > Sage Mode if we only measure those abilities and not the actual ninja themselves. But regular sharingan? Hell no.

jdw
February 09, 2010, 07:54 AM
Meh, the copy ability of the sharingan is completely forgotten by Kishi. It's as if it was never even introduced except when it comes to Kakashi. Sasuke hasn't even used a "copied" jutsu since Lee IIRC, and we don't even know if Itachi or Madara ever copied a jutsu. Kakashi seems to be the only sharingan wielder that is known and actually uses copied jutsus, as if he's the only one able to copy jutsus with his sharingan. I don't think this ability makes the sharingan outclass Sage Mode at all. If anything then the only chance sharingan has a shot at outclassing Sage Mode is if we count in the Mangekyou form, then it will outclass Sage Mode in terms of usefulness.

Sage Mode >>>>> Regular Sharingan. Just look at the absurd power up Naruto went through simply by achieving Sage Mode. He went from an avarage monster wielding ninja with an insanely powerful jutsu that was barely above chuunin level to become a Kage level ninja. Naruto went from an underdog to a God with Sage Mode alone! There's no way the regular sharingan can measure to that upgrade. A character like Naruto was pre-Sage Mode that gained a regular 3 tomoe sharingan would not even be close to the ninja he could become with Sage Mode instead.

Though MS most likely > Sage Mode if we only measure those abilities and not the actual ninja themselves. But regular sharingan? Hell no.

Just because the ability isn't depicted often in the manga it doesn't mean it does not count.

Sharingan provides the following, though probably not a complete list:
Instant genjutsu casting ability
Instant genjutsu breaking ability
Copy jutsu of all kinds (nin, gen, tai)
See chakra/chakra flow
Predict movement (at basically all speeds except Raikage/perfect for counters)/read handseals

These abilities are probably some of the most adaptable/useful in the manga. The utility of the sharingan is far beyond sage mode, imo, and as long as you have chakra your sharingan be used. Sage mode has to be obtained time and time again, in battle, which is not guaranteed to happen. You think and sharingan is active.

3c
February 09, 2010, 08:09 AM
Just because the ability isn't depicted often in the manga it doesn't mean it does not count.

Sharingan provides the following, though probably not a complete list:
Instant genjutsu casting ability
Instant genjutsu breaking ability
Copy jutsu of all kinds (nin, gen, tai)
See chakra/chakra flow
Predict movement (at basically all speeds except Raikage/perfect for counters)/read handseals

These abilities are probably some of the most adaptable/useful in the manga. The utility of the sharingan is far beyond sage mode, imo, and as long as you have chakra your sharingan be used. Sage mode has to be obtained time and time again, in battle, which is not guaranteed to happen. You think and sharingan is active.

I still consider Sage Mode more useful to be honest.

Instant genjutsu casting ability - This one is pretty awesome I agree.
Instant genjutsu breaking ability - Also very useful, though few actually use genjutsu in the narutoverse except Uchiha and a few exceptions.
Copy jutsu of all kinds (nin, gen, tai) - That's fine, but no one uses it, and without the necessary body/affinity you can't even perform the copy. Copying a fire jutsu without the affinity is for example useless. Sasuke copying Raikage's raiton armor is also useless as he doesn't have the chakra capacity that Raikage has, he would most likely run out pretty quickly if he used it. Copying high movement speed is useless without the body to react accordingly. It's a very overpowered ability, but the usefulness is rather limited.
See chakra/chakra flow - See chakra is useful in some cases.
Predict movement (at basically all speeds except Raikage/perfect for counters)/read handseals - This is also a useful ability in most cases, like you said.

The sharingan is overall very useful, I think we agree on that. But exactly how useful is the question. I'd still go with regular sharingan < Sage Mode < MS (because of the extra jutsus basically).

The sharingan brings with it alot of useful abilities overall, but Sage Mode basically makes you into a godly being. Naruto was a loser with a great jutsu before Sage Mode. And with Sage Mode he instantly became among the top 3 strongest shinobi in the whole world. Sage Mode doesn't bring with it as many useful abilities as the sharingan does, so I don't think that alone can measure their usefulness against eachother. But it basically makes a loser into a god simply by using it. Naruto with regular sharingan (mastered) would be way below Naruto with Sage Mode because of the useful abilities Sage Mode gives to the fighter.

To be honest I'd consider an ability that makes a nobody into a godly being more useful than eyes that give a loser some new abilities. What's more useful? Activating a jutsu and becoming awesome for an almost unlimited time if done right, or being a loser that can use some useful abilities? (sorry if it sounds like I'm downgrading the sharingan alot, I guess it sounds a little negative. I just don't see it as being at the same level as Sage Mode in terms of usefulness. You're welcome to disagree of course) :p

I guess the level of usefulness depends on the shinobi. For some sharingan might be better than Sage Mode, and the opposit for others. But overall I'd rate an ability that makes me godly simpy by using it more useful than a pair of eyes that boost me a little and give me some nice moves.

kai-uchiha
February 09, 2010, 08:35 AM
well, as for why the copy function of the sharingan seems more evident in kakashi than sasuke is pretty simple if you ask me, kakashi has 4 chakra elements and sasuke has 2,

so clearly kakashi has way more possibility's of copying jutsu.
also, one of sasukes elements is fire witch isn't exactly a element that allows you to vary a lot as far as jutsu go, as a matter of fact dragonflame bombs, great fire ball and great dragon fire technique are about all the technique's you need to use that element to it's fullest.

where as water and earth(kakashi's element"s) seem to have more variations than all of the other elements combined.

so it's not that strange to me that sasuke hasn't copied quite as much as kakashi, kakashi just lucked out on the chakra affinity part.

p.s. the only instant i recall where sasuke should've copied a jutsu but didn't, is when the raikage used that raiton element jutsu to increase his reaction speed.
sasuke has raiton element(and is very proficient at using it) and he was using his sharingan at the moment to observe the raikage's moves.

3c
February 09, 2010, 09:16 AM
Guys we're not allowed to discuss spoilers here. It's a reason they were deleted, they were absurd even if they might be real. It's better to wait for 110% confirmed ones.

As for Kakashi and copying jutsu. Kakashi actually only has three confirmed elements; Earth, Water and Lightning. Fire was only shown in the anime so it's not canon. It still doesn't explain why no one seem to copy jutsus except Kakashi. I know I would copy tons of jutsus so that I would never lack something. If I'm honest it seems like Kishi figured the ability was way to overpowered and as a result made character's like Sasuke "forget" about the ability.

Thrillidan
February 09, 2010, 09:36 AM
Sorry to interupt but i think some people have wrong idea of Sharingan copying skills?
Sharingan gives slowmotion and seeing chakra flow. When it comes to simple jutsus which are based on handseals and molding chakra it works perfectly. With simple taijutsu we have same thing too. Thats why Sasuke could copy Ura-renge and Kakashi could handle zabuza water jutsu ... (which was simply puting chakra into water and good aiming with dragon missle).
But when we are talking about Raikages technique all Sasuke could see was that his oponent body was full of raiton chakra and thats all. Sharingan can not see exact flow like byakugan which would be more helpfull with this jutsu.

Of course if Sasuke would think about it and know some basic of anathomy ;) ... he would figure eventualy.

arslan
February 09, 2010, 09:38 AM
I think the copying ability of Sharingan stems from the insight it provides in regards to a justu. Sasuke, Itachi and Madara use this 'eye of insight' quite frequently and quite well but they don't bother copying techniques because they don't need to or can't as 3cmm explained above. Sasuke copying a katon jutsu, for example, would be pointless as he is pretty adept himself and the insight regarding an opponents techniques is all he needs to gain an edge. Sasuke's fight against Deidara would be a prime example. Even if Sasuke had doton, there was no point in him trying to copy deidara. He needed to understand Deidara's technique to overcome it and that he did. Kakashi copied techniques in the past because it allowed him to be well rounded and expand his arsenal. Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara have no such need so they simply don't bother. Orochimaru, on the other hand, wanted the sharingan primarily for the insight and the ability to copy jutsus.

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 09:40 AM
Ok, so revivsed version of Normal Sharigan and Sage Mode:

Sharigan:
-Enhanced perception (things slow down for user)
-Ability to Copy Techniques in which one is capable of using
-Ability to see chakra
-occular genjutsu, both normal and hypnotic
-ability to break genjutsu


Sage Mode:
-Enhanced Strength
-Enhanced Speed
-Enhanced Durability
-More powerful chakra
-Sensing Abilities
-Extended Reach in Taijutsu
-Body is "activated" in ways we may not know about yet

So, yea I fail to see how Sage Mode, again, isn't vastly superior to the Sharigan. Sage Mode literally turns you into a super hero lol.

Now if we are talking about MS, that's another story, but we aren't so, meh :p

3c
February 09, 2010, 09:44 AM
Haha, I completely agree Delbi. Sage Mode litteraly makes you into a godly fighter, whereas Sharingan is a rather weak comparison. MS is a completely other story because of the jutsus it brings with it, which honestly is the only reason why sharingan is so incredibly overpowered. MS jutsus are sick, but the normal sharingan despite being a superb doujutsu is nothing godly like Rinnegan, MS or Sage Mode. Sage Mode is almost like Kishi's way of giving Naruto "MS". If this discussion develops into MS vs Sage Mode in terms of usefulness I'll fully agree on MS > Sage Mode. But Sage Mode is in my opinion vastly superior to the normal sharingan.

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 10:00 AM
Yea, IMO, MS is overpowered because of Ameratsu. A fire that can't be extinguished and appears anywhere the user is looking? That's nuts.

Sure, Tsyukiyomi is crazy, but you need eye contact for it to work.

Sussano is nuts, but as we have seen, it can be broke. Itachi's was the one that was extremely overpowered with Yata's Mirror blocking any attack, and the Sword of Tousoku sealing people's souls. Sasuke's kind of pales in comparison to his.

Best offensive ninjutsu, best occular genjutsu, and basically an absolute defense which also has awesome offesnive capabilities. Although no jutsu is without a weakness, and MS does have it's weaknesses, not to mention it has a high cost for just using it, MS is really the cream of the crop. Only thing that is better all around is the EMS and Rinnegan.
[hr]

If you have no skills, sage mode can turn you into a strong person. If you have no skills, sharingan turns you into a master shinobi who levels up everytime he fights/witnesses an event, etc -_-; anyway, it isn't a big deal. It is liek the same people hype Sasuke in one convo but try to play down his powers in others. Meh.

And if you have no skils what is the Sharigan going to do lol? Sure you can see things slower, but if you can't react to them the Sharigan is useless. If you already suck at genjutsu, the Sharigan isn't going be that great when it comes to breaking it or casting it. And as we have seen, some fighters like Itachi and Kakashi, can use handseals so fast the Sharigan can't even keep up.

A tool is only as good as it's user afterall.

If you are a noob with the Sharigan, your body still sucks. If you are a noob with Sage Mode, you become physically superior to nearly everyone around you.

arslan
February 09, 2010, 10:00 AM
Kinda makes you wonder what exactly are EMS's capabilities and what sort of new dojutsu's can it do. I mean we even have some sense of rinnegan's abilities but EMS seems like a total mystery.
@Delbi: To be fair, you can't really be a noob with the sage mode. It's really difficult to acquire and control. So if you reach that stage, it is implied that you can use it with some degree of expertise and efficiency. We can see some improvements in Naruto's use of the tech, of course. And I'm all up for it.

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 10:11 AM
@Delbi: To be fair, you can't really be a noob with the sage mode. It's really difficult to acquire and control. So if you reach that stage, it is implied that you can use it with some degree of expertise and efficiency. We can see some improvements in Naruto's use of the tech, of course. And I'm all up for it.

It's true, but if you are a noob with the sharigan, you still suck for the most part. Again, a tool is only as good as it's user. Thus far, the only people we have seen use the Sharigan excessively are three of the best fighers and geniuses in the manga, Itachi, Sasuke, and Kakashi. They make the Sharigan look badass becasue THEY are badass.

People hate on Obito, but in reality he wasn't that bad of ninja. He could use Katon ninjutsu rather well, and he was pretty good in taijutsu. Compared to Kakashi he was noobish, but Kakashi was a genius of geniuses, he created Chidori at 13 and learned Rasengan before that.

kisame123
February 09, 2010, 10:54 AM
I don't see how people view the Sharingan to completely beneficial in all aspects, that's not true. as for the comparison between Sage Mode, that's laughable. let me break it down.


Sharingan supposedly has the ability to copy any jutsu as long as the hand seals are shown. this ties into its ability to see chakra and of course, read the hand seals. however, this is "copying" function, that which it was named after, is almost a dead and vestigial function. no one has shown this capability besides Kakashi and that too, was at the beginning of the series. Sasuke has shown minor skill in this reading some of Rock Lee's taijutsu moves, but nothing that makes him worthy of having that "copy" title.

the Sharingan is largely genjutsu-based doujutsu, it casts genjutsu, breaks, and even reverses genjutsu as well! it has hypnotic powers, which is used to cast its visual genjutsu. then there is the rare ability of mind control, but that is also due to the sharingan's genjutsu ability. Shisui, Madara, Danzou have shown to be able to use this power. the sharingan user essentially probes the consciousness for the victims' thoughts and suggesting false thoughts of their own. Itachi has shown the ability to do that in his genjutsu, since genjutsu usually involves probing the consciousness of the victim and playing the victims' own thoughts against them like in this case here:
-Itachi uses Naruto's guilt of failure against him
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-259/page014.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-259/page016.html
I do think this is perhaps this is one of the most useful abilities in the series. this is what makes the sharingan so damn cool. personally I'd love to have this power in real life. it would make life a whole lot easier! ahem, sorry.

the sharingan also has the ability to see the slightest sets of movements and tension on the body. Because of that insight, the sharingan user is able to accurately predict movements and time counter-attack accordingly. however, there's a massive problem with this ability. as shown earlier on in the series, the sharingan can allow your eyes to keep up with movements, but if your own body cannot keep up with that movement it's useless. if you have a disadvantage at speed, the sharingan will let you painfully and helplessly watch your own beating in high definition!:D Sasuke painfully watched his arse get kicked by Rock Lee! the Uchiha clan could only painfully watch themselves slowly get killed by Itachi during the night of the massacre.

also, just because you can see movements, doesn't mean that you can immediately predict the next movement. the sharingan-user has to use his own brain cells to predict, as it involves the brain's functions. the sharingan-user, himself, has to develop a strategy and the attack by using their fighting skills. there is also the issue of what you can predict, can you predict all kinds of movement? we've seen that the three-tomoe cannot predict Naruto's movements when he utilized the Kyuubi chakra since the chakra moved in a direction of its own. however, Sasuke was able to predict Killerbee's movements and even though they were mainly linear, it still suggests that you can improve your ability to predict.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page004.html
just as the sharingan's insight and ability to predict evolved as the number of tomoe increased, apparently you can continue to improve your sharingan through experience.

all is not loss, however, as you are only encouraged to train your taijutsu, reflexes, and speed. that is why the Uchiha were largely taijutsu-based, since their sharingan would have allowed them for close combat hand-to-hand fighting as long as their body could keep up and in order for their body to keep up, they would constantly train physically.

I think it's interesting to note the lack of armor here for the depiction of the Uchiha clan in Madara's time here:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-398/page018.html
compare it to the senju clan, which were heavily armored
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-399/page006.html
perhaps the Uchiha clan did not find it necessary to engage in combat with armor, thanks to their sharingan. Madara is an exception, but there might be another reason for that.

nonetheless, the sharingan's ability to predict movements is not "unfair". after seeing the Mizukage who can apparently, spit acid/lava out from her breath, or Torune who's entire body is infected with nano-scale bugs, I can't imagine anybody foolish enough to fight somebody like that with taijutsu-_-; the point is, you have to go out there and fight on your own. you have to train your sharingan, your own physical abilities, or else nothing will happen and you will remain weak. Sharingan-users must risk their lives to become stronger, nothing comes easy and usually death awaits you at the end of battle.

Sage Mode, on the other hand, can allow you to survive anything except gravity! (just kidding)

Sage Mode enhances

Ninjutsu
Genjutsu (I'm willing to ignore this for Naruto, but the frogs are good)
Taijutsu: apparently fighting at DragonBall Z altitudes, suddenly became possible?
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-420/page002.html
speed
draws power from external natural energy
super-strength:-enough to toss summons, definitely fatal for humans
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page006.html
enhanced durability (survivability)
-here, Naruto falls into jagged rocks and does not even have a scratch on him:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-418/page006.html
Reach:gives you extra reach through natural energy, meaning you don't even have to connect your punch to the target.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page013.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page017.html
Sensor:you become an awesome sensor ninja, Naruto was able to track Nagato
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-441/page013.html
NOTE: I still don't think that people realize what sensors can do. if anyone can recall, Sasuke ordered Karin, a sensor ninja, to predict Killerbee's movements and give them Killerbee's directions using her sensor abilities.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page007.html
of course, this was done from a distance so it is not like the sharingan which can help predict in close hand-to-hand combat, but is like a Sharingan with the Byakugan's far-sighted vision. Naruto can predict movements from a distance, which might be extremely useful for fighting against a speed demon like Sasuke.

in conclusion, Sage Mode basically enhances everything! it puts you on par with the greatest shinobi to have ever existed and greatly improves your survivability. do not misunderstand me, I love Sage Mode, it's an awesome jutsu considering the numerous benefits and effects the jutsu has. Kishimoto is a genius for thinking up something like this, just as he thought of the Rinnegan, Pain Rikudou, the Sharingan, and all other Kekkei Genkai!

Igniel
February 09, 2010, 11:05 AM
Guys we're not allowed to discuss spoilers here. It's a reason they were deleted, they were absurd even if they might be real. It's better to wait for 110% confirmed ones.

As for Kakashi and copying jutsu. Kakashi actually only has three confirmed elements; Earth, Water and Lightning. Fire was only shown in the anime so it's not canon. It still doesn't explain why no one seem to copy jutsus except Kakashi. I know I would copy tons of jutsus so that I would never lack something. If I'm honest it seems like Kishi figured the ability was way to overpowered and as a result made character's like Sasuke "forget" about the ability.

I'd say the sharingan copies everything it sees, it's just a matter of whether the sharingan wielder wants to use it's new-found copied jutsu and whether the user is skilled enough to pull it off.

At some point, Kakashi mentions (which is why he wears his headband over his eye) that the sharingan, when activated, is constantly recording data which means a user only has to view a jutsu to know how it's performed. And as I mentioned, we probably haven't seen more copied jutsu simply because the sharingan users have chosen not to use them or lack of skill thereof (more likely the former). In essence, if a sharingan user sees a jutsu, they understand how it is performed & can duplicate it (unless it is a blood limit, in which case I believe they understand how it is performed but cannot copy it).

bighawke5
February 09, 2010, 11:16 AM
I don't see how people view the Sharingan to completely beneficial in all aspects, that's not true. as for the comparison between Sage Mode, that's laughable. let me break it down.


Sharingan supposedly has the ability to copy any jutsu as long as the hand seals are shown. this ties into its ability to see chakra and of course, read the hand seals. however, this is "copying" function, that which it was named after, is almost a dead and vestigial function. no one has shown this capability besides Kakashi and that too, was at the beginning of the series. Sasuke has shown minor skill in this reading some of Rock Lee's taijutsu moves, but nothing that makes him worthy of having that "copy" title.

the Sharingan is largely genjutsu-based doujutsu, it casts genjutsu, breaks, and even reverses genjutsu as well! it has hypnotic powers, which is used to cast its visual genjutsu. then there is the rare ability of mind control, but that is also due to the sharingan's genjutsu ability. Shisui, Madara, Danzou have shown to be able to use this power. the sharingan user essentially probes the consciousness for the victims' thoughts and suggesting false thoughts of their own. Itachi has shown the ability to do that in his genjutsu, since genjutsu usually involves probing the consciousness of the victim and playing the victims' own thoughts against them like in this case here:
-Itachi uses Naruto's guilt of failure against him
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-259/page014.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-259/page016.html
I do think this is perhaps this is one of the most useful abilities in the series. this is what makes the sharingan so damn cool. personally I'd love to have this power in real life. it would make life a whole lot easier! ahem, sorry.

the sharingan also has the ability to see the slightest sets of movements and tension on the body. Because of that insight, the sharingan user is able to accurately predict movements and time counter-attack accordingly. however, there's a massive problem with this ability. as shown earlier on in the series, the sharingan can allow your eyes to keep up with movements, but if your own body cannot keep up with that movement it's useless. if you have a disadvantage at speed, the sharingan will let you painfully and helplessly watch your own beating in high definition!:D Sasuke painfully watched his arse get kicked by Rock Lee! the Uchiha clan could only painfully watch themselves slowly get killed by Itachi during the night of the massacre.

also, just because you can see movements, doesn't mean that you can immediately predict the next movement. the sharingan-user has to use his own brain cells to predict, as it involves the brain's functions. the sharingan-user, himself, has to develop a strategy and the attack by using their fighting skills. there is also the issue of what you can predict, can you predict all kinds of movement? we've seen that the three-tomoe cannot predict Naruto's movements when he utilized the Kyuubi chakra since the chakra moved in a direction of its own. however, Sasuke was able to predict Killerbee's movements and even though they were mainly linear, it still suggests that you can improve your ability to predict.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page004.html
just as the sharingan's insight and ability to predict evolved as the number of tomoe increased, apparently you can continue to improve your sharingan through experience.

all is not loss, however, as you are only encouraged to train your taijutsu, reflexes, and speed. that is why the Uchiha were largely taijutsu-based, since their sharingan would have allowed them for close combat hand-to-hand fighting as long as their body could keep up and in order for their body to keep up, they would constantly train physically.

I think it's interesting to note the lack of armor here for the depiction of the Uchiha clan in Madara's time here:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-398/page018.html
compare it to the senju clan, which were heavily armored
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-399/page006.html
perhaps the Uchiha clan did not find it necessary to engage in combat with armor, thanks to their sharingan. Madara is an exception, but there might be another reason for that.

nonetheless, the sharingan's ability to predict movements is not "unfair". after seeing the Mizukage who can apparently, spit acid/lava out from her breath, or Torune who's entire body is infected with nano-scale bugs, I can't imagine anybody foolish enough to fight somebody like that with taijutsu-_-; the point is, you have to go out there and fight on your own. you have to train your sharingan, your own physical abilities, or else nothing will happen and you will remain weak. Sharingan-users must risk their lives to become stronger, nothing comes easy and usually death awaits you at the end of battle.

Sage Mode, on the other hand, can allow you to survive anything except gravity! (just kidding)

Sage Mode enhances

Ninjutsu
Genjutsu (I'm willing to ignore this for Naruto, but the frogs are good)
Taijutsu: apparently fighting at DragonBall Z altitudes, suddenly became possible?
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-420/page002.html
speed
draws power from external natural energy
super-strength:-enough to toss summons, definitely fatal for humans
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page006.html
enhanced durability (survivability)
-here, Naruto falls into jagged rocks and does not even have a scratch on him:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-418/page006.html
Reach:gives you extra reach through natural energy, meaning you don't even have to connect your punch to the target.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page013.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page017.html
Sensor:you become an awesome sensor ninja, Naruto was able to track Nagato
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-441/page013.html
NOTE: I still don't think that people realize what sensors can do. if anyone can recall, Sasuke ordered Karin, a sensor ninja, to predict Killerbee's movements and give them Killerbee's directions using her sensor abilities.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page007.html
of course, this was done from a distance so it is not like the sharingan which can help predict in close hand-to-hand combat, but is like a Sharingan with the Byakugan's far-sighted vision. Naruto can predict movements from a distance, which might be extremely useful for fighting against a speed demon like Sasuke.

in conclusion, Sage Mode basically enhances everything! it puts you on par with the greatest shinobi to have ever existed and greatly improves your survivability. do not misunderstand me, I love Sage Mode, it's an awesome jutsu considering the numerous benefits and effects the jutsu has. Kishimoto is a genius for thinking up something like this, just as he thought of the Rinnegan, Pain Rikudou, the Sharingan, and all other Kekkei Genkai!

epic
and some dont believe naruto gets fast in sage mode but they forget to be fast you need to have your reflexes boosted also or have good reflexes in proportion to your speed. This shows why lee is a taijutsu specialist because his reflexes are hyper.

Same with raikage who boosts his reflexes to infinity and can increase his speed with chakra and handle it and use it at his advantage.

Sage mode enhances or activates you. i really think that that partially includes boost in reflexes and thus allows for increase in speed brought by more potent chakra.

Others say sage mode naruto showed no speed feats during his fight with pain. well lets look at pain vs kakashi. kakashi had his sharingan active when he confronted pain.
Pain kicked and he ducked with the insight ability of the sharingan helping see stuff in slow mo probably. BUT THEN pain drew his pimp stick and stabbed kakashi in the shoulder.

Kakashi couldnt avoid that even with the sharingan, why? cant tell me that it was because its a close fight or that his reflexes are slow...i mean he had sharingan active lol but pain was just faster, otherwise kakashi would have done a backflip and avoided...

pain was fast and maybe sage mode naruto wasnt show that way to some but he did own pain in taijutsu lol and in reflexes. another speed/reflex feat of pain is here...http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/441/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/06/
i mean his reflexes arent half bad...and that stuff was like shown in slow mo...otherwise it wouldve hit sooner like when he first used it on all the pains...if the other pains couldn't avoid FRS before and got disintegrated while others could its because of reflexes.

kai-uchiha
February 09, 2010, 12:22 PM
I don't see how people view the Sharingan to completely beneficial in all aspects, that's not true. as for the comparison between Sage Mode, that's laughable. let me break it down.


Sharingan supposedly has the ability to copy any jutsu as long as the hand seals are shown. this ties into its ability to see chakra and of course, read the hand seals. however, this is "copying" function, that which it was named after, is almost a dead and vestigial function. no one has shown this capability besides Kakashi and that too, was at the beginning of the series. Sasuke has shown minor skill in this reading some of Rock Lee's taijutsu moves, but nothing that makes him worthy of having that "copy" title.

the Sharingan is largely genjutsu-based doujutsu, it casts genjutsu, breaks, and even reverses genjutsu as well! it has hypnotic powers, which is used to cast its visual genjutsu. then there is the rare ability of mind control, but that is also due to the sharingan's genjutsu ability. Shisui, Madara, Danzou have shown to be able to use this power. the sharingan user essentially probes the consciousness for the victims' thoughts and suggesting false thoughts of their own. Itachi has shown the ability to do that in his genjutsu, since genjutsu usually involves probing the consciousness of the victim and playing the victims' own thoughts against them like in this case here:
-Itachi uses Naruto's guilt of failure against him
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-259/page014.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-259/page016.html
I do think this is perhaps this is one of the most useful abilities in the series. this is what makes the sharingan so damn cool. personally I'd love to have this power in real life. it would make life a whole lot easier! ahem, sorry.

the sharingan also has the ability to see the slightest sets of movements and tension on the body. Because of that insight, the sharingan user is able to accurately predict movements and time counter-attack accordingly. however, there's a massive problem with this ability. as shown earlier on in the series, the sharingan can allow your eyes to keep up with movements, but if your own body cannot keep up with that movement it's useless. if you have a disadvantage at speed, the sharingan will let you painfully and helplessly watch your own beating in high definition!:D Sasuke painfully watched his arse get kicked by Rock Lee! the Uchiha clan could only painfully watch themselves slowly get killed by Itachi during the night of the massacre.

also, just because you can see movements, doesn't mean that you can immediately predict the next movement. the sharingan-user has to use his own brain cells to predict, as it involves the brain's functions. the sharingan-user, himself, has to develop a strategy and the attack by using their fighting skills. there is also the issue of what you can predict, can you predict all kinds of movement? we've seen that the three-tomoe cannot predict Naruto's movements when he utilized the Kyuubi chakra since the chakra moved in a direction of its own. however, Sasuke was able to predict Killerbee's movements and even though they were mainly linear, it still suggests that you can improve your ability to predict.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page004.html
just as the sharingan's insight and ability to predict evolved as the number of tomoe increased, apparently you can continue to improve your sharingan through experience.

all is not loss, however, as you are only encouraged to train your taijutsu, reflexes, and speed. that is why the Uchiha were largely taijutsu-based, since their sharingan would have allowed them for close combat hand-to-hand fighting as long as their body could keep up and in order for their body to keep up, they would constantly train physically.

I think it's interesting to note the lack of armor here for the depiction of the Uchiha clan in Madara's time here:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-398/page018.html
compare it to the senju clan, which were heavily armored
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-399/page006.html
perhaps the Uchiha clan did not find it necessary to engage in combat with armor, thanks to their sharingan. Madara is an exception, but there might be another reason for that.

nonetheless, the sharingan's ability to predict movements is not "unfair". after seeing the Mizukage who can apparently, spit acid/lava out from her breath, or Torune who's entire body is infected with nano-scale bugs, I can't imagine anybody foolish enough to fight somebody like that with taijutsu-_-; the point is, you have to go out there and fight on your own. you have to train your sharingan, your own physical abilities, or else nothing will happen and you will remain weak. Sharingan-users must risk their lives to become stronger, nothing comes easy and usually death awaits you at the end of battle.

Sage Mode, on the other hand, can allow you to survive anything except gravity! (just kidding)

Sage Mode enhances

Ninjutsu
Genjutsu (I'm willing to ignore this for Naruto, but the frogs are good)
Taijutsu: apparently fighting at DragonBall Z altitudes, suddenly became possible?
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-420/page002.html
speed
draws power from external natural energy
super-strength:-enough to toss summons, definitely fatal for humans
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page006.html
enhanced durability (survivability)
-here, Naruto falls into jagged rocks and does not even have a scratch on him:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-418/page006.html
Reach:gives you extra reach through natural energy, meaning you don't even have to connect your punch to the target.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page013.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-431/page017.html
Sensor:you become an awesome sensor ninja, Naruto was able to track Nagato
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-441/page013.html
NOTE: I still don't think that people realize what sensors can do. if anyone can recall, Sasuke ordered Karin, a sensor ninja, to predict Killerbee's movements and give them Killerbee's directions using her sensor abilities.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page007.html
of course, this was done from a distance so it is not like the sharingan which can help predict in close hand-to-hand combat, but is like a Sharingan with the Byakugan's far-sighted vision. Naruto can predict movements from a distance, which might be extremely useful for fighting against a speed demon like Sasuke.

in conclusion, Sage Mode basically enhances everything! it puts you on par with the greatest shinobi to have ever existed and greatly improves your survivability. do not misunderstand me, I love Sage Mode, it's an awesome jutsu considering the numerous benefits and effects the jutsu has. Kishimoto is a genius for thinking up something like this, just as he thought of the Rinnegan, Pain Rikudou, the Sharingan, and all other Kekkei Genkai!

i believe the only reason why naruto was able to track down nagato was because he pierced himself with one of those black rods pain used to fight.

and although i also believe sage mode gives one the ability to more or less sense what's going around them.

that precision and distance demonstrated in the fight against pain was all due to the rod naruto stabbed himself with(which was definitely a in genius way of locating nagato)

SupremeMod
February 09, 2010, 12:27 PM
I never started this to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of the sharingan/MS and SM.

This whole thing started because M3J stated that Kakashi was in base mode while fighting Pain. I just don't find that to be accurate. He was using his sharingan and MS. As soon as Kakashi starts using his sharingan, he's not in base mode anymore imo, that's all.

BTW, Kakashi wasn't just using his sharingan but he also used his MS during his brief encounter with Pain.

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000096152/16.jpg

3c
February 09, 2010, 12:41 PM
I never viewed sharingan as something making people go into another "mode" though. I certainly don't consider sharingan another type of mode. I don't know, it just feels weird saying that sharingan makes you go into another mode, though it certainly makes sense to some extent as your body becomes enhanced thus "sharingan mode". But when comparing "sharingan mode" to Sage Mode it kinda becomes a weird comparison for some reason. Meh I'm just rambling, calling someone using sharingan as being in another mode makes kinda sense.

Smokes
February 09, 2010, 12:45 PM
I never viewed sharingan as something making people go into another "mode" though. I certainly don't consider sharingan another type of mode. I don't know, it just feels weird saying that sharingan makes you go into another mode, though it certainly makes sense to some extent as your body becomes enhanced thus "sharingan mode". But when comparing "sharingan mode" to Sage Mode it kinda becomes a weird comparison for some reason. Meh I'm just rambling, calling someone using sharingan as being in another mode makes kinda sense.

Well, it's a tool, and a costly one for kakashi. He doesn't use it unless he has to.
End of the Chuunin exams when he and Gai were dispatching all those invader nin, he didn't need it and didn't use it. Not even once.
But Zabuza got the full #6.

M3J
February 09, 2010, 07:39 PM
I just found fault in M3J's thinking. Kakashi wasn't in his base because he was using his sharingan and MS. lol That's not base at all.
How is it not? SHaringan and Mangekyou Sharingan are like tools/jutsu, they don't really boost anything maybe except genjutsu. Sage Mode has shown to affect a user tremendously. Jiraiya and Naruto gained speed, strength, and etc. Sharingan/Mangekyou SHaringan hasn't shown to do the same thing. Sasuke was still beaten by Lee, Kakashi still ran out of chakra, etcetc.

I guess it depends on our own definition of what constitutes base mode and what doesn't.


I never started this to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of the sharingan/MS and SM.

This whole thing started because M3J stated that Kakashi was in base mode while fighting Pain. I just don't find that to be accurate. He was using his sharingan and MS. As soon as Kakashi starts using his sharingan, he's not in base mode anymore imo, that's all.

BTW, Kakashi wasn't just using his sharingan but he also used his MS during his brief encounter with Pain.

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000096152/16.jpg

Actually, that was after the fight. <_< Just sayin'.

Weapon_X
February 09, 2010, 07:45 PM
I don't see how Sage Mode is better then the Sharingan. Sharingan can cast Genjutsu and fuck people up. Example, Sasuke. User of Sage Mode? Naruto. Personally, Sage Mood is only good for Taijutsu and Ninjutsu. And we all know in this manga from the very beginning...Genjutsu(higher form of Ninjutsu itself) > Ninjutsu and Taijutsu.

So I fail to see how Sage Mode is better.

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 07:47 PM
Sage Mode makes you stronger, faster, more durable, makes your attacks more powerful, gives your punch a farther reach, and gives you sensing abilities.

The Sharigan doesn't do anything that even comes close to that aside from predictiong one's moves, but even if you can do that, and your too slow to counter, it doesn't matter.

The genjutsu thing is cool, but guess what, it requires eye contact, and genjutsu can be broken.

And Genjutsu really hasn't proven to be better than Ninjutsu or Taijutsu, all 3 are different, and thus can't really be compared all that much.

Weapon_X
February 09, 2010, 07:54 PM
What Sage Mode can do is mainly Taijutsu based, that's nothing. Naruto is very good at it, he is a Sage Mode user and yet he is shit when he comes to face a Genjutsu. Itachi could cast a Genjutsu by just pointing a finger.

And you say eye contact is needed. Well, eye contact is needed for everything, if a Sage Mode user doesn't use his eyes to look at someone, then how is he gonna hit that guy? We've seen in this manga, in every battle that a person looks at someone always in the eyes.

CBlitz
February 09, 2010, 08:08 PM
Itachi was a genjutsu specialist though, besides Naruto's genjutsu breaking trick is probably stronger when he's in Sage Mode.

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 08:22 PM
What Sage Mode can do is mainly Taijutsu based, that's nothing. Naruto is very good at it, he is a Sage Mode user and yet he is shit when he comes to face a Genjutsu. Itachi could cast a Genjutsu by just pointing a finger.

And you say eye contact is needed. Well, eye contact is needed for everything, if a Sage Mode user doesn't use his eyes to look at someone, then how is he gonna hit that guy? We've seen in this manga, in every battle that a person looks at someone always in the eyes.

Itachi was the be all end all of the genjutsu world. He's the only ninja to use a genjutsu simply by pointing a finger. Every other genjutsu that is not Sharigan based, requires either some kind of device or handseals.

Sage Mode literally makes one's ninjutsu more powerful and effective, just look at Jiraiya and Naruto's Rasengans.

It also gives one a sensing ability so there is no where the enemy can hide.

Then, in Taijutsu, it makes it so even if you miss, you can still hit your opponent.

Not to mention it makes you faster, which allows you to not only deliver attacks better in taijutsu, but makes it easier to dodge things.

Your stronger, so your punches and kicks do more damange, and you can throw summons into orbit.

And, to top it all off, it makes you more durable, so most attacks are useless against you.

I really can' fathom how the Sharigan is somehow better than Sage Mode. It makes your eyes better, and gives you better genjutsu skills that require eye contact to work. And you can copy techniques. It does nothing to make your actual body better, doesn't make your jutsu better, doesn't make you stronger faster and more durable.

SupremeMod
February 09, 2010, 08:42 PM
Does Kakashi receive a boost in battle abilities when he uses the sharingan/MS? Yes.

Does Jiraiya receive a boost in battle abilities when he uses SM? Yes.

So yeah, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 09:02 PM
Does Kakashi receive a boost in battle abilities when he uses the sharingan/MS? Yes.

Does Jiraiya receive a boost in battle abilities when he uses SM? Yes.

So yeah, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Diiference here is Kakashi recieves only a boost in two abilities, his sight, and his genjutsu.

Every last one of Jiraiya and Naruto's abilities are boosted when in Sage Mode. Not to menton Naruto gets Sensing abilities and extended reach.

The only "extra" thing that Kakashi gets that he can't normally do is the ability to copy jutsu and see chakra.

Weapon_X
February 09, 2010, 09:03 PM
Itachi was the be all end all of the genjutsu world. He's the only ninja to use a genjutsu simply by pointing a finger. Every other genjutsu that is not Sharigan based, requires either some kind of device or handseals.

Sage Mode literally makes one's ninjutsu more powerful and effective, just look at Jiraiya and Naruto's Rasengans.

It also gives one a sensing ability so there is no where the enemy can hide.

Then, in Taijutsu, it makes it so even if you miss, you can still hit your opponent.

Not to mention it makes you faster, which allows you to not only deliver attacks better in taijutsu, but makes it easier to dodge things.

Your stronger, so your punches and kicks do more damange, and you can throw summons into orbit.

And, to top it all off, it makes you more durable, so most attacks are useless against you.

I really can' fathom how the Sharigan is somehow better than Sage Mode. It makes your eyes better, and gives you better genjutsu skills that require eye contact to work. And you can copy techniques. It does nothing to make your actual body better, doesn't make your jutsu better, doesn't make you stronger faster and more durable.

The "eye contact" would work on everything. Naruto would be caught in a Genjutsu easily, just like he was caught in Itachi's crow illusion back in chapter 366. It's natural instinct to look at someone's eyes, and there is no proof that Sage Mode can help Naruto break Genjutsu. Fukasaku's and Shima's Gamarinsho never needed any handseals or device to capture 3 of Pain's bodies and destroy it, and yet it worked. So Itachi is no different.

Genjutsu is eye based, mainly Sharingan based, which is a Doujutsu. Completely different from Sage Mode where Sage Mode enchances the "body" while the Sharingan enhnaces the "eyes". Little to no effort, even C can catch Naruto in a Genjutsu and fuck him up, and he is a Sage Mode user. Not gonna help him though is it? And we know Sasuke's Sharingsan Genjutsu is stronger then C's Genjutsu lol

There are 2 Sage Mode users. Jiraiya and Naruto. Naruto is completely shit when it comes to genjutsu. And Jiraiya said he isn't good at Genjutsu, hence why he needed Fukasaku's and Shima's help in capturing Pain, also as far as I know he said in a flashback Genjutsu was his weakest point. Both have Sage Mode.

If Itachi or Sasuke caught either of them in a Genjutsu using the Sharingan, they would be fucked. And I am sure it was said in Part 1 that Genjutsu > Ninjutsu + Taijutsu. Said by Ebisu I think. :blink

Delbi
February 09, 2010, 09:06 PM
Did I ever once say Sage Mode would help Naruto with breaking genjutsu? Don't put words in my mouth Weapon.

And thus far, ninjutsu has be the most dominating of all three in the manga. Think of the strongest and most devistating attacks in the manga, and they are all some form of ninjutsu.

Weapon_X
February 09, 2010, 09:17 PM
Take a chill pill, only having a debate lol Don't have a lot to do :p

Yeah, we have seen more Ninjutsu then Genjutsu BUT that Ninjutsu is no use if someone is caught in a Genjutsu and they can't do anything to break it. After all, Genjutsu is a higher "form" on Ninjutsu, meaning it's like Ninjutsu but much better (I'm sure this was explained in part 1).

Ninjutsu fucks up the body while Genjutsu fucks up the mind. Mind takes a longer time to recover then the body. Clearly Genjutsu > Ninjutsu lol There are so many examples:

Naruto is a beast, and yet a simple Genjutsu is all needed to fuck him up.
Kakashi is a beast, and yet Tsukiyomi fucked him up like he was some fodder ninja. Ninjutsu isn't helping him is it?
Jiraiya KNEW Ninjutsu and Taijutsu wasn't effective against Pain, so the only option left was Genjutsu. And look at the results when Ma and Pa frog used Gamarinsho. 3 Pain bodies literally "destroyed".

And lets not get started on Izanagi, which I think, isn't better then Tsukiyomi but whatever.

zerocooldx
February 09, 2010, 10:37 PM
Well, it's a tool, and a costly one for kakashi. He doesn't use it unless he has to.
End of the Chuunin exams when he and Gai were dispatching all those invader nin, he didn't need it and didn't use it. Not even once.
But Zabuza got the full #6.

But you can't really compare Zabuza to some random and unknown fodders.

Smokes
February 09, 2010, 10:52 PM
But you can't really compare Zabuza to some random and unknown fodders.

I know. I wasn't saying he was fodder. I was just saying that Kakashi fought without his sharingan when he could.
He'll be needing it from now on, of course, but as good an addition as it is, he doesn't start using it right away; just when he's gonna have problems. I don't know if he'll be seeing any fodder anymore for the rest of the manga.

M3J
February 09, 2010, 10:57 PM
Does Kakashi receive a boost in battle abilities when he uses the sharingan/MS? Yes.

Does Jiraiya receive a boost in battle abilities when he uses SM? Yes.

So yeah, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Powerups to increase the way he fights or his abilities? The way I see it, Sharingan just helps him cast genjutsu more easily and see jutsu and copy it. Mangekyou SHaringan just gives him extra jutsu.

Igniel
February 09, 2010, 11:17 PM
What Sage Mode can do is mainly Taijutsu based, that's nothing. Naruto is very good at it, he is a Sage Mode user and yet he is shit when he comes to face a Genjutsu. Itachi could cast a Genjutsu by just pointing a finger.

And you say eye contact is needed. Well, eye contact is needed for everything, if a Sage Mode user doesn't use his eyes to look at someone, then how is he gonna hit that guy? We've seen in this manga, in every battle that a person looks at someone always in the eyes.

You are incorrect in your statement. Sage Mode increases & solidifies the strength of one's chakra by adding natural chakra of the surrounding area thereby increasing the strength of physical attacks in addition to illusions (which are genjutsu). It increases each drastically in strength. HERE (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/409/11/)

elitefox
February 09, 2010, 11:33 PM
The "eye contact" would work on everything. Naruto would be caught in a Genjutsu easily, just like he was caught in Itachi's crow illusion back in chapter 366. It's natural instinct to look at someone's eyes, and there is no proof that Sage Mode can help Naruto break Genjutsu. Fukasaku's and Shima's Gamarinsho never needed any handseals or device to capture 3 of Pain's bodies and destroy it, and yet it worked. So Itachi is no different.

Genjutsu is eye based, mainly Sharingan based, which is a Doujutsu. Completely different from Sage Mode where Sage Mode enchances the "body" while the Sharingan enhnaces the "eyes". Little to no effort, even C can catch Naruto in a Genjutsu and fuck him up, and he is a Sage Mode user. Not gonna help him though is it? And we know Sasuke's Sharingsan Genjutsu is stronger then C's Genjutsu lol

There are 2 Sage Mode users. Jiraiya and Naruto. Naruto is completely shit when it comes to genjutsu. And Jiraiya said he isn't good at Genjutsu, hence why he needed Fukasaku's and Shima's help in capturing Pain, also as far as I know he said in a flashback Genjutsu was his weakest point. Both have Sage Mode.

If Itachi or Sasuke caught either of them in a Genjutsu using the Sharingan, they would be fucked. And I am sure it was said in Part 1 that Genjutsu > Ninjutsu + Taijutsu. Said by Ebisu I think. :blink

Yeah if they are caught at the same time lol 7 pains needed to be caught or else, nothing, the others can just free you
[hr]

Take a chill pill, only having a debate lol Don't have a lot to do :p

Yeah, we have seen more Ninjutsu then Genjutsu BUT that Ninjutsu is no use if someone is caught in a Genjutsu and they can't do anything to break it. After all, Genjutsu is a higher "form" on Ninjutsu, meaning it's like Ninjutsu but much better (I'm sure this was explained in part 1).

Ninjutsu fucks up the body while Genjutsu fucks up the mind. Mind takes a longer time to recover then the body. Clearly Genjutsu > Ninjutsu lol There are so many examples:

Naruto is a beast, and yet a simple Genjutsu is all needed to fuck him up.
Kakashi is a beast, and yet Tsukiyomi fucked him up like he was some fodder ninja. Ninjutsu isn't helping him is it?
Jiraiya KNEW Ninjutsu and Taijutsu wasn't effective against Pain, so the only option left was Genjutsu. And look at the results when Ma and Pa frog used Gamarinsho. 3 Pain bodies literally "destroyed".

And lets not get started on Izanagi, which I think, isn't better then Tsukiyomi but whatever.

??? Jutsu(Technique) can be mainly divided into 3: genjutsu, ninjutsu and tai jutsu... nothing is evolve from the other. Genjutsu is very useless if you have super strong chakra that will interupt the genjutsu user's jutsu, just strong chakra so naruto in sage mode might counter it very well... because genjutsu only alters the chakra wave in your brain, a strong chakra will destroy/jam your genjutsu

you can treat genjutsu as a radio signal with radio jammer it is useless lol.

as Jiraiya said, you do not need to know all jutsus in the world.
but many jutsu will help you to get a variety of attack patterns, that is the main advantage.

The Noobslayer
February 10, 2010, 01:36 AM
Does anybody know if the MS enhances the original 3 tomoe abilities (preditiction, reaction, etc), or just allows access to the l33t jutsus?

M3J
February 10, 2010, 01:40 AM
From what it looks like, MS just allows access to the jutsu.

ganjabuss
February 10, 2010, 02:03 AM
@The Noobslayer
yes...it does enhance the sharingan eye...see itachi vs. kakashi in rescue garra arc...

DeathLion
February 10, 2010, 02:29 AM
this is the link of kishimoto-jump-interview of what will happen in 2010..anyone who has't seen it can see it here........

http://naruto-spoilers.blogspot.com/2010/01/kishimoto-jump-interview-spoilers-for.html

enjoy.....

zagorka
February 10, 2010, 06:24 AM
I don't see how Sage Mode is better then the Sharingan. Sharingan can cast Genjutsu and fuck people up. Example, Sasuke. User of Sage Mode? Naruto. Personally, Sage Mood is only good for Taijutsu and Ninjutsu. And we all know in this manga from the very beginning...Genjutsu(higher form of Ninjutsu itself) > Ninjutsu and Taijutsu.

So I fail to see how Sage Mode is better.I don't really see how you are comparing the two? Sage mode is supplementary. It's not really a tool. The sharingan is a tool, like a kunai is a tool. Sage mode is great depending on how Naruto uses that supplementary chakra. So what you should be comparing is Naruto's use of kagebunshin, rasengan, taijutsu, etc in sage mode.

But I agree. Any technique of his within sage mode isn't going to fare well against the Sharingan, more specifically Sasuke's sharingan.

demons_halo
February 10, 2010, 01:02 PM
I don't really see how you are comparing the two? Sage mode is supplementary. It's not really a tool. The sharingan is a tool, like a kunai is a tool. Sage mode is great depending on how Naruto uses that supplementary chakra. So what you should be comparing is Naruto's use of kagebunshin, rasengan, taijutsu, etc in sage mode.

But I agree. Any technique of his within sage mode isn't going to fare well against the Sharingan, more specifically Sasuke's sharingan.

That's why he'll use the weapon shown in your sign!

TeAm#7FoReVer
February 10, 2010, 11:56 PM
Changing the topic, I was surfering on devianart and I found this parody of a movie (http://justpressplay.today.com/files/2009/04/how_to_lose_a_guy_in_ten_days.jpg), of course adding two of the most beloved Naruto characters.


http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/037/6/7/Naruto_481_by_JamesDonaldson.jpg (http://jamesdonaldson.deviantart.com/art/Naruto-481-153078752)

Will you watch the movie?:p

jdw
February 11, 2010, 07:25 AM
Often people, including myself, say we want Naruto to learn Hiraishin, the space/time jutsu created by Minato, Naruto's dad. How annoying would it be if Sasuke picked up Madara's s/t jutsu, and these two dudes just fight popping all over the place like Whack a Mole?
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5483/gameswhackamole.gif

kisame123
February 11, 2010, 12:37 PM
Why would it be annoying?
it's because people can't fathom or bear the thought of Sasuke learning a new technique, even though he's destined to and he is a genius. Sasuke's going to continue to get cooler with his ever-increasing arsenal of jutsu. whereas, Naruto will undoubtedly defeat everybody mainly because he's the protagonist and because he will tire out any opponent with his unlimited chakra (there will be a few techniques, but not decisive).

Sasuke has always been and always be a jutsu-specialist, his name in Japanese, is synonymous with "ninja". he is named after the legendary figure Sasuke Sarutobi just like Hiruzen, who also knew probably a thousand jutsu. if Hiruzen was a jutsu specialist who mastered every technique in the village, Sasuke might be heading down that route as well. Kishimoto designed Sasuke with that in mind, hence the parallelism with Japanese history. Naruto was designed with the usual Shounen character in mind, meaning that he won't have too many techniques and will win because he never gives up! Luffy in One Piece, Ichigo in Bleach, it's all the same.

*I don't know if any of you watch Ninja Warrior on G4 TV, but the term "Sasuke no ninja" is used for the show.

judging by the foreshadowing in recent chapters, Sasuke will sync with the Gedo Mazou, he will obtain an even more powerful doujutsu, he will become even more powerful than Pain much to certain peoples' dismay. some people are angry because of that, just the thought of Sasuke doing those things enrages them. the only way he can please them is for him to lay down, let Naruto beat him, and just die. :eyeroll

I hope not everyone believes that...

by the way, if Madara can use his space/time with his doujutsu (not too sure), Sasuke will eventually be able to do that as well. He's already proven to be able use the space/time jutsu concept with Manda, it's similar to Kuchiyose no Jutsu just as hiraishin is similar to the summoning jutsu.
( http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-363/page014.html )

come to think of it, he already has a space/time jutsu as stated by Tenzou

"but he could have also used a space/time ninjutsu to teleport himself somewhere safe."
( http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-364/page013.html )



Changing the topic, I was surfering on devianart and I found this parody...

Will you watch the movie?:p
dude, that was hilarious, dammit! I think Sasuke will eventually have to reproduce to revive the clan, I'm wondering if he intends to eventually gather a few women if they're up for that task(maybe more), lol. who's to say Sakura won't join him?


Well If Sasuke mastered Madara's technique in some way... Maybe through EMS, Sasuke will be able to be intangible at any moment. As if it's not hard enough to even land a hit on Sasuke... This technique is better than Susano'o for defensive maneuvers and great to use for offensive maneuvers (not as great as Susano'o).

The Fourth was unable to fight Madara properly. Granted, Madara was probably too weak to even go against the Fourth, with the exception of using the Kyuubi. I'm not kidding either. Sasuke would be able to trap someone into that box dimension, and basically own everyone, while enemy attacks just phase through him. And the problem here would be that if Sasuke is to be defeated, it'll be through some stupid plot-device. For example, pride. In this example of a future scenario of Sasuke being defeated; Pride will have made Sasuke think he killed his opponent, and then oops... Sasuke is defeated. TADA! It still doesn't change that Sasuke is the most powerful. There's always a problem when you give a character too much power.
since I've already pointed out that Sasuke has developed a space/time ninjutsu of his own, I'm starting to believe that the chance of him gaining Madara's abilities is less likely. all ninja have their own unique battle styles and set of techniques. this was stated by Pain when observing Jiraiya's Sennin Mode, crediting the Sannin for having their own unique abilities. Jiraiya specialized in summoning jutsu, Yondaime specialized in sealing jutsu, Naruto specializes in Kagebunshin, trickery, and henge (transformation) incorporating some jutsu from Jiraiya (Sage Mode) and Yondaime (Rasengan). Kishimoto usually never gives two ninja the same battle styles. as for, Sasuke will develop even more awesome techniques on his own, it's ridiculous to think that the manga will settle on his current powers.

Who says Sasuke is more powerful than Naruto?

I've read your other posts, regarding Naruto and the need to learn more techniques. I've already pointed out that Shounen main characters do not need an arsenal of techniques, their willpower and determination is usually the decisive factor in their battles. even still, most Shounen characters have the same trump card, an enormous amount of energy, whether it's ki, reiatsu, or chakra. Naruto has that enormous chakra and that's usually the deciding factor in his battle.

I don't see why space/time ninjutsu is such a big deal for Naruto, considering his own father had trouble beating Madara and thought that it was necessary for Naruto have the power of the Kyuubi. Yondaime could have simply given Naruto a scroll for hiraishin, but he didn't, instead he realized that the power of the Kyuubi curbstomps everything. the Kyuubi overcomes all kinds of jutsu's, kekkai genkai, nothing in this manga can give remotely enough power to beat it. there are things such as doujutsu or other kekkai genkai like the Rinnegan, Sharingan, or Mokuton that can push the Kyuubi into a corner, but none have ever been successful.

Sasuke isn't "overpowered", he's just skilled, and fits the definition, according to Orochimaru, of ninja because of his jutsu arsenal. Naruto fits the definition of a ninja, according to Jiraiya, "one who never gives up". of course, if you want to talk about real power and abilities, then Naruto is clearly overpowered, literally. to top it off with a cherry, he's mastered Sage Mode, a ridiculously overpowering jutsu and he's bound to learn more senjutsu (Sage techniques utilizing natural energy). the final trump card will be his control over the Kyuubi, which is even being stated in the WSJ Preview. I'll leave you with this to ponder over:

Originally Posted by vered
Here is the WSJ preview for next week chapter translated by Shounensuki:
Quote:
「ナルトが秘めた九尾のチャクラ、天下無双!!」
"With the hidden chakra of the Nine-Tails, Naruto will become unequaled"

「サスケvsダンゾウ戦決着!!復讐劇の行方は!?」
"The battle between Sasuke and Danzo reaches its conclusion!! Where is the revenge tragedy going!?"

jabjal
February 11, 2010, 02:50 PM
Am i the only person who will be very interested in seeing the next character popularity poll especially after the hokage summit arc.

zagorka
February 11, 2010, 02:59 PM
Why would it be annoying?Well If Sasuke mastered Madara's technique in some way... Maybe through EMS, Sasuke will be able to be intangible at any moment. As if it's not hard enough to even land a hit on Sasuke... This technique is better than Susano'o for defensive maneuvers and great to use for offensive maneuvers (not as great as Susano'o).

The Fourth was unable to fight Madara properly. Granted, Madara was probably too weak to even go against the Fourth, with the exception of using the Kyuubi. Adding this technique to his repertoire would literally make Sasuke god-like. I'm not kidding either. Sasuke would be able to trap someone into that box dimension, and basically own everyone, while enemy attacks just phase through him. And the problem here would be that if Sasuke is to be defeated, it'll be through some stupid plot-device. For example, pride. In this example of a future scenario of Sasuke being defeated; Pride will have made Sasuke think he killed his opponent, and then oops... Sasuke is defeated. TADA! It still doesn't change that Sasuke is the most powerful. There's always a problem when you give a character too much power.

Razh
February 11, 2010, 03:08 PM
Well If Sasuke mastered Madara's technique in some way... Maybe through EMS, Sasuke will be able to be intangible at any moment. As if it's not hard enough to even land a hit on Sasuke... This technique is better than Susano'o for defensive maneuvers and great to use for offensive maneuvers (not as great as Susano'o).

You give Sasuke too little credit. In my opinion Sasuke would be capable of progressing Madara's tech so much that he could be the main hero and the main villain at the same time.
He already used SCIENCE to beat Itachi. It's only natural that, as he progresses, he starts using QUANTUM PHYSICS.

3c
February 11, 2010, 03:13 PM
Am i the only person who will be very interested in seeing the next character popularity poll especially after the hokage summit arc.

To be honest I think Kishi is to afraid of showing the results of such a poll. Naruto is most likely gonna score 5th or something, that's really embarrasing for a main character. Better do it after Naruto has been continously awesome for a long time, if that ever happens.

M3J
February 11, 2010, 03:53 PM
People hate on Sasuke too much. Yes, he is powerful, but he's not the most powerful either. He didn't really win against Raikage or Killerbee. Danzou chose to seal himself and Itachi wasn't fighting at 100%. What Sasuke has shown though is that he's a genius.

3c
February 11, 2010, 03:58 PM
I agree with you M3J. But I hope you're not saying that Sasuke didn't win against Danzou? His seal erupted as a result of him dying after all xD Though Danzou kinda fought with a handicap by not being able to use Shisui's eye. I still don't see how it would have mattered in the long run though. I thoroughly believe Sasuke would have owned him in the end anyway.

Sasuke has really only had two clean victories in part 2; Deidara and Danzou. The rest have been half-wins with the opponent either holding back, being sick, tricking him into thinking he won, being interrupted etc etc. Though I actually think he beat Orochimaru fair and square. Orochimaru did use his "ultimate" technique on Sasuke, and Sasuke easily overcame it. It's debatable whether Orochimaru would have been stronger inside his own dimension if he was healthy, I guess it would be plausible, if that's the case then Sasuke's victory was cheap. Though I do believe that Orochimaru would kill Sasuke in a real fight at 100%. But Orochimaru pretty much owned himself by using a technique on Sasuke that left him completely open for counters.

Smokes
February 11, 2010, 04:02 PM
To be honest I think Kishi is to afraid of showing the results of such a poll. Naruto is most likely gonna score 5th or something, that's really embarrasing for a main character. Better do it after Naruto has been continously awesome for a long time, if that ever happens.

When was the last one?....isn't there a list around here somewhere?

I don't know where Naruto would end up but I would guess that Sasuke, Madara, Gaara, Kakashi, maybe still Deidra, possibly Iruka, and after that cameo Itachi for sure, Killer B, and possibly Mizzy would be ahead of him I think.
It's hard for me to figure since I'm never where everybody else is in my reasoning. He may barely be in the top ten right now. I'm gonna guess that the fainting didn't do much for his coolness factor.LOL

3c
February 11, 2010, 04:06 PM
The last one was about 50 chapters into part 2. Sasuke scored 1st and Naruto scored 4th despite Sasuke not having been in the manga for roughly 60 chapters and Naruto coming back all "awesome" :p

Here's a thread for the popularity polls: http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14211

Rahan
February 11, 2010, 04:13 PM
In may, it will 4 years since the last populary poll while there was one after each year during the first 6 years of the manga.

jdw
February 11, 2010, 04:23 PM
it's because people can't fathom or bear the thought of Sasuke learning a new technique, even though he's destined to and he is a genius.

I skipped most of your usual speech, I just wanted to say it isn't for that reason, it is because it would be annoying to watch any two people popping all over the place avoiding and attacking each other. Almost as bad as a genjutsu fight.

M3J
February 11, 2010, 04:36 PM
I agree with you M3J. But I hope you're not saying that Sasuke didn't win against Danzou? His seal erupted as a result of him dying after all xD Though Danzou kinda fought with a handicap by not being able to use Shisui's eye. I still don't see how it would have mattered in the long run though. I thoroughly believe Sasuke would have owned him in the end anyway.
He was dying? Wut? I thought he activated the seal on his own. o_o
Yeah, t'is a shame. Looks like Kishi was rushing the battle too much. <_<


Sasuke has really only had two clean victories in part 2; Deidara and Danzou. The rest have been half-wins with the opponent either holding back, being sick, tricking him into thinking he won, being interrupted etc etc. Though I actually think he beat Orochimaru fair and square. Orochimaru did use his "ultimate" technique on Sasuke, and Sasuke easily overcame it. It's debatable whether Orochimaru would have been stronger inside his own dimension if he was healthy, I guess it would be plausible, if that's the case then Sasuke's victory was cheap. Though I do believe that Orochimaru would kill Sasuke in a real fight at 100%. But Orochimaru pretty much owned himself by using a technique on Sasuke that left him completely open for counters.
Deidara went boom though. And Orochimaru was weak and sick.

Looks like I'm knocking down Sasuke, but I'm not. <_< He had Sharingan, but he didn't use it to win. Remember that fight with Sound nin? He couldn't use Sharingan, but he still won. So he doesn't need SHaringan as much as thought he did. But he is up against better and stronger opponents.

warbandit66
February 11, 2010, 04:46 PM
I think Deidara's loss was more self inflicted, he had enough chakra to use those clay snakes and then blow himself up creating a huge explosion. I think his deep seated artistic madness just got to him in the end.

Delbi
February 11, 2010, 04:50 PM
Sasuke's legit victories so far: Danzou and Deidara

Sasuke's draw: Raikage

Sasuke's would have lost under normal circumstances: Orochimaru, Itachi, Killerbee

However, Sasuke as he stands at this point, could likely defeat everyone he's faced previously in the manga.

Orochimaru would lose. Itachi is a toss up. The Raikage would have a tough time hurting Sasuke, but Sasuke would have a hard time hurting him as well due to his speed. And Killerbee would most likely lose as well unless he has Samehada.

So, yes Sasuke's previous performances prior to Danzou are suspect, but that was prior to him becoming as powerful as he is now.

warbandit66
February 11, 2010, 04:55 PM
I still don't think Sasuke would fair too well against a healthy Orochimaru. Itachi defeated him using his exceptional genjutsu, but Sasuke lacks such talent in that area. Orochimaru was extremely versatile and tricky he could escape death quite easily and was quite formidable in terms of stamina.

Delbi
February 11, 2010, 05:00 PM
I still don't think Sasuke would fair too well against a healthy Orochimaru. Itachi defeated him using his exceptional genjutsu, but Sasuke lacks such talent in that area. Orochimaru was extremely versatile and tricky he could escape death quite easily and was quite formidable in terms of stamina.

Sasuke genjutsu was enough to paralyze Orochimaru in his own demension, then reverse his jutsu back on Orochimaru, and seal him inside Sasuke's own body. And yea, that was prior to Sasuke getting MS lol.

Also, Orochimaru can't escape death forever. Sasuke would just spam Ameratsu until Orochimaru had no chakra left if his genjutsu couldn't do the trick. Not to mention, Orochimaru has no attack that will break through Sussano.

As it stands, Sasuke likely has as much, if not more stamina than Orochimaru did, so Sasuke wins this.

◆ T.D.A ◆
February 11, 2010, 05:13 PM
Sasuke's legit victories so far: Danzou and Deidara

Sasuke's draw: Raikage

Sasuke's would have lost under normal circumstances: Orochimaru, Itachi, Killerbee

However, Sasuke as he stands at this point, could likely defeat everyone he's faced previously in the manga.

Orochimaru would lose. Itachi is a toss up. The Raikage would have a tough time hurting Sasuke, but Sasuke would have a hard time hurting him as well due to his speed. And Killerbee would most likely lose as well unless he has Samehada.

So, yes Sasuke's previous performances prior to Danzou are suspect, but that was prior to him becoming as powerful as he is now.

But you could argue 100% and with edo tensei Orochimaru could beat anyone.

jdw
February 11, 2010, 05:26 PM
But you could argue 100% and with edo tensei Orochimaru could beat anyone.

It is possible that Oro could do a lot of damage with himself at 100% with edo tensei, but I think he would still be in trouble against people like Itachi, Pain, Bee, Raikage, and the current Sasuke (and maybe Danzou too if he wasn't dead :p ).

3c
February 11, 2010, 05:36 PM
He was dying? Wut? I thought he activated the seal on his own. o_o
Yeah, t'is a shame. Looks like Kishi was rushing the battle too much. <_<

Of course he was, he was stabbed through the heart :p

He was with his dying breath walking away out of stubborness to live. Then in a last ditch attempt of doing some good with his death he tried to take Madara and Sasuke with him. Madara described the seal as a seal Danzou put upon himself that would be activated upon his death. No matter how you put it though, he was dying, so his own "selfdestruct" doesn't matter, Sasuke killed him.


Deidara went boom though. And Orochimaru was weak and sick.

But Deidara got thrumped in every way possible. Sasuke was clearly the superior fighter. Sasuke won the fight, Deidara had no choice but to make himself into a piece of art. And yeah, Orochimaru is debatable xD

Delbi
February 11, 2010, 05:58 PM
But you could argue 100% and with edo tensei Orochimaru could beat anyone.

Biggest problem with this jutsu is that in requires the remains of the one you want to summon, and a sacrafice. But yes, it is quite a deadly jutsu.

One of Orochimaru's biggest problems though IMO, is that he lacks the ninjutsu to kill the stronger ninja in the manga. He doesn't have anything like a chidori or rasengan, his closest thing he has is his sword.

3c
February 11, 2010, 06:05 PM
Biggest problem with this jutsu is that in requires the remains of the one you want to summon, and a sacrafice. But yes, it is quite a deadly jutsu.

One of Orochimaru's biggest problems though IMO, is that he lacks the ninjutsu to kill the stronger ninja in the manga. He doesn't have anything like a chidori or rasengan, his closest thing jutsu like that is his sword.

Most likely because when Orochimaru was introduced, snakes and summons were awesome. Now that's genin techniques. When he got introduced and designed the manga hadn't reached the level of being all about nukes, explosions and absurd techniques like FRS, Susano'o etc. Poor Orochimaru, he really got owned by Kishi's imagination.

Smokes
February 11, 2010, 06:11 PM
I don't think edo tensei requires the remains of a person to summon them. Just the living sacrifice and ash to form the shape. Or did I miss something?

jdw
February 11, 2010, 06:14 PM
I don't think edo tensei requires the remains of a person to summon them. Just the living sacrifice and ash to form the shape. Or did I miss something?

I dunno. here:


Summoning: Impure World* Ressurection (口寄せ・穢土転生, Kuchiyose: Edo Tensei)
Ninjutsu, S-rank, Supplementary
User: Orochimaru

Using a living person as a medium**, it calls back a deceased person to this world.

[picture of Orochimaru putting a fuda*** inside the Shodai Hokage's head]
↑Within this body is a human sacrifice!?

[picture of the resurrected Shodai and Nidaime Hokage]
→The deceased has to obey the user of the technique...

A sinful summoning technique, resurrecting a deceased person back into this world. It uses a living human sacrifice as a vessel to hold the deceased in this world. The sacrifice the deceased descents in, is covered by a shroud of dust in the shape the deceased's body had in life. The technique itself, because it's a kinjutsu that's too inhuman, had it's existence concealed...

*Edo (穢土, "Dirty Soil") is what Japanese Buddhists call the world normal, unenlightened people live in. The current, living world. The world of the people who have not yet have escaped the polluting thoughts (greed, hatred, delusion, etc.) that result in suffering.
**The word used for medium is "yorishiro" (依り代). A yorishiro is an object capable of housing a Kami (神, the shinto concept of gods), allowing them to occupy physical space. Persons can also house Kami, but they are called "yorimashi" (依巫). The fact that the word yorishiro is used here shows how inhuman this technique is, treating the sacrifices as nothing more than objects.
***A fuda, or o-fuda (御札) is a kind of talisman or charm, made of paper. It is placed on walls, pillars, doors , and windows as a guard against evil spirits and such. They are often seen in manga and anime as a kind of mystical weapon. The exploding tags in Naruto are fuda, for example.

GOOMOONRYONG
February 11, 2010, 06:26 PM
I was just reading over the Pain invasion and anyone who thinks that Naruto isn't fast is crazy. I know the speed issue is always brought up but I think Sasuke and Naruto are pretty even in that category. Good day.

jabjal
February 11, 2010, 06:34 PM
I would also like to declare that sakura is cool. No evidence, suggestions or any real backing I just felt like being ignorant

M3J
February 11, 2010, 06:39 PM
Of course he was, he was stabbed through the heart :p

He was with his dying breath walking away out of stubborness to live. Then in a last ditch attempt of doing some good with his death he tried to take Madara and Sasuke with him. Madara described the seal as a seal Danzou put upon himself that would be activated upon his death. No matter how you put it though, he was dying, so his own "selfdestruct" doesn't matter, Sasuke killed him.
And the death was pointless. <_< HI5 to Danzou. Shoulda done a Saru.



But Deidara got thrumped in every way possible. Sasuke was clearly the superior fighter. Sasuke won the fight, Deidara had no choice but to make himself into a piece of art. And yeah, Orochimaru is debatable xD

Sasuke didn't kill Deidara though, Deidara killed himself. D: I'm not debating Sasuke had the upperhand during most of the battle, but Deidara could have still survived. And Sasuke used Orochimaru to survive. D:

jdw
February 11, 2010, 06:46 PM
I would also like to declare that sakura is cool. No evidence, suggestions or any real backing I just felt like being ignorant

Sakura has a good side. It is just overshadowed by her enormous downside.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/899/18896826.jpg http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9084/70606943.jpg

Delbi
February 11, 2010, 06:47 PM
Deidara was on his ass. Sasuke still had enough charka to summon Manda, so Deidara was essentially at his mercy. There is quite literally nothing Deidara could have done to survive, hence why he killed himself in an attempt to take Sasuke with him.

CBlitz
February 11, 2010, 06:49 PM
potential GARuka tyme? >__>

haha I kid, though I wish she were a badass more often. Hope she does something cool against the Sauce this time instead of BAAAAWing like usual. Sakura would be a good lead if Kishi put as much effort into her character as he does for Naruto/Sasuke.

jdw
February 11, 2010, 06:50 PM
Deidara was on his ass. Sasuke still had enough charka to summon Manda, so Deidara was essentially at his mercy. There is quite literally nothing Deidara could have done to survive, hence why he killed himself in an attempt to take Sasuke with him.

I am not sure if this is true, imo anyway. It didn't seem like he killed himself because he would not be able to survive otherwise. It seemed like he did it because he wanted to kill Sasuke at all cost, even a the price of his own life.

warbandit66
February 11, 2010, 06:53 PM
But Deidara did have enough Chakra to create an explosion that covered a 10km radius and kill a boss summon.

tousendrinksbleach
February 11, 2010, 06:54 PM
Deidara was on his ass. Sasuke still had enough charka to summon Manda, so Deidara was essentially at his mercy. There is quite literally nothing Deidara could have done to survive, hence why he killed himself in an attempt to take Sasuke with him.

if you could use his most powerful explosive ,he could have probably used a lower one... + you justcant talk about manda or anything, sasuke isnt a living guy , he is just kishimoto ... kishi wnated sasuke to survive unil the end of the manga , so even if superman comes and hits sasuke then sasuke will survive

Delbi
February 11, 2010, 08:48 PM
But Deidara did have enough Chakra to create an explosion that covered a 10km radius and kill a boss summon.

Yes, and i cost him his life to use. It seemed to be a forbiden technique, hence the seals and stiches that held the mouth together, I don't think a lot of chakra would be needed, as its seen as a last resort, so Deidara would likely have little to no chakra left, like he did, before he even considered such a technique.

Not to mention, if Deidara had chakra left, why didn't he try something else? He used the snakes and Sasuke used Chidori to defeat them and hurt Deidara.

Again, he was done, Sasuke defeated him outright.

Weapon_X
February 11, 2010, 08:57 PM
LOL People still arguing(after like 100+ chapters :facepalm) that Deidara had a chance against Sasuke and that magically he would have won or escaped? :lmao

When someone pushes their opponent into using their last Jutsu, especially one where it requires them to commit suicide, they lost the battle. It's simple as that. There is no bullshit behind it... and Sasuke did this perfectly against Deidara.

Deidara got outclassed in every way, seriously, he was literally fucked.

zerocooldx
February 11, 2010, 09:13 PM
LOL People still arguing(after like 100+ chapters :facepalm) that Deidara had a chance against Sasuke and that magically he would have won or escaped? :lmao

When someone pushes their opponent into using their last Jutsu, especially one where it requires them to commit suicide, they lost the battle. It's simple as that. There is no bullshit behind it... and Sasuke did this perfectly against Deidara.

Deidara got outclassed in every way, seriously, he was literally fucked.

And...Sasuke even had the option to set Deidara up for Kirin if his initial strategy failed. And seeing as how Deidara was conveniently hovering around in the air he would have been the perfect lighting rod.

Weapon_X
February 11, 2010, 09:15 PM
And...Sasuke even had the option to set Deidara up for Kirin if his initial strategy failed. And seeing as how Deidara was conveniently hovering around in the air he would have been the perfect lighting rod.

Yeah, I didn't wanna mention that since people would complain that Kirin would never work, he needs prep time, bullshit like that lol but yeah, he also had that.

zerocooldx
February 11, 2010, 09:23 PM
Yeah, I didn't wanna mention that since people would complain that Kirin would never work, he needs prep time, bullshit like that lol but yeah, he also had that.

Well setting up Kirin against Deidara would have also been perfect. Because he is up in the air and Sasuke, being on the ground, has to shoot up. Thus the perfect set up any way anyone wants slice it. If there was ever a battle in Naruto that the outcome of it was never really in doubt, that was it.

elitefox
February 12, 2010, 12:41 AM
Yeah, I didn't wanna mention that since people would complain that Kirin would never work, he needs prep time, bullshit like that lol but yeah, he also had that.

actually he cannot set that up :eyeroll

the largest prerequisite is a cloud, large cloud or a cold front...
sasuke attacks itachi knowing that would come, but deidara isn't planned

except sasuke can summon a cloud, debatable (well kishi can do that easily though)

well sasuke did won from the start, his element >> deidara's
and now sasuke has his haxes, he will pound deidara to shit.
[hr]
Don't get angry with me..

but I think Kirin is way weaker than FRS due to its nature.

but the advantage of Kirin to FRS is it is very fat while FRS can be dodge (debatable)

zerocooldx
February 12, 2010, 12:52 AM
actually he cannot set that up :eyeroll

the largest prerequisite is a cloud, large cloud or a cold front...
sasuke attacks itachi knowing that would come, but deidara isn't planned

except sasuke can summon a cloud, debatable (well kishi can do that easily though)

well sasuke did won from the start, his element >> deidara's
and now sasuke has his haxes, he will pound deidara to shit.

All that Sasuke needs to do in order to set up Kirin is to heat up the atmosphere. He doesn't need to wait for certain types of clouds to already be in the area, any clouds will do. Also the only way Sasuke "set up" Itachi was when he got Itachi to unknowingly aid him in creating Kirin. But if you want to debate whether or not there was could cover or what type near Deidara then thats just going to turn into a senseless and frivolous debate. But there were (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-360/page002.html) clouds there. Also lets not forget that Sasuke was most certainly about to use a version of Kirin (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-309/page013.html) against Team 7 back at Orochimaru's hideout when he was stopped. If anything this (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-391/page004.html) Kirin was most likely just a super charged Kirin on steroids meant to whip out all traces of its target.

elitefox
February 12, 2010, 01:05 AM
All that Sasuke needs to do in order to set up Kirin is to heat up the atmosphere. He doesn't need to wait for certain types of clouds to already be in the area, any clouds will do. Also the only way Sasuke "set up" Itachi was when he got Itachi to unknowingly aid him in creating Kirin. But if you want to debate whether or not there was could cover or what type near Deidara then thats just going to turn into a senseless and frivolous debate. But there were (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-360/page002.html) clouds there. Also lets not forget that Sasuke was most certainly about to use a version of Kirin (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-309/page013.html) against Team 7 back at Orochimaru's hideout when he was stopped. If anything this (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-391/page004.html) Kirin was most likely just a super charged Kirin on steroids meant to whip out all traces of its target.

Yup... is it cloudy that day? (anyway kishi can give it in his whim anyways)

Team 7? debatable if he is trying to launch kirin without first heating up the air. oh is it even cloudy.:tem

for me, amaterasu is more useful than it.

zerocooldx
February 12, 2010, 01:14 AM
Yup... is it cloudy that day? (anyway kishi can give it in his whim anyways)

Team 7? debatable if he is trying to launch kirin without first heating up the air. oh is it even cloudy.:tem

for me, amaterasu is more useful than it.

Well what other jutsu do we know of that Sasuke uses by raising his hand into the air? Especially when this (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-309/page012.html) and this (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-391/page006.html) look exactly the same. Also right here (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-391/page004.html) Zetsu basically says that Sasuke can indeed use his own chakra as an energy source to power Kirin. So there most certainly was or still possibly is a smaller and less powerful version of Kirin that is, it all depends on Kishi, directly created by Sasuke himself without outside variables, such as the need to heat the atmosphere and etc.

kisame123
February 12, 2010, 01:29 AM
can anyone tell me something about the rumors, "Naruto has reached its climax"? If I can recall, this was a note in one of the manga volumes. is this true, is Naruto going to end soon, perhaps in a year or two? I could have sworn that there was clarification by Kishimoto himself after that, claiming that Naruto will not end anytime soon and will go on for a while?

ashher
February 12, 2010, 03:31 AM
according to the latest interview,sasuke vs naruto is gonna be the last fight.......as madara said he is gonna throw sasuke at naruto soon,and also because naruto seems to head for sasuke currently,ppl are speculating on a finish in near future.

but kishimoto hasn't given any specific timeline,except saying that this will still go on for a 'long time'.

Mack
February 12, 2010, 11:28 AM
So Sakura is supposed to by heorine from now? Well then, what was all this about?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/452/14/
For me it is more on Heroin, than being a Heroine, because i don't know, ehat the hell is she thinking...

benelori
February 12, 2010, 11:53 AM
^^Dark heroine, or undercover heroine...

Mack
February 12, 2010, 12:32 PM
^^Dark heroine, or undercover heroine...

Well, i would call her Kamikaze Heroine...

David Gill
February 12, 2010, 01:38 PM
^^Dark heroine, or undercover heroine...

I'd say ON heroine judging by her recent action.:)

themaddie
February 13, 2010, 02:27 AM
When Naruto passed out recently, anyone think he has some clones off and about training? It was a mental/physical strain on him when training with all those shadow clones and he did mention extending the time limit of Sage mode. Just a thought.

brizzlle
February 13, 2010, 02:38 AM
at what point will kabutoro show up? man i hope its not like another one and done thing like danzou.

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 13, 2010, 02:49 AM
at what point will kabutoro show up? man i hope its not like another one and done thing like danzou.

Don't get your hope up, this is the same Kish we are talking about.

If Kabuto last pass 20 pages after his reintroduction, before getting take out by Sasuke(don't get your hope up on Naruto been the one to defeat him either) i will be quite surprise.

ashher
February 13, 2010, 03:37 AM
i can't say i am that much interested abut kabutomaru right now......i am more interested in what is going to happen with roots...who is gonna lead them?and an apparently high ranked root member was sent searching for kabutomaru....so what is gonna happen with that plan now that danzo is no more?

tousendrinksbleach
February 13, 2010, 04:05 AM
at what point will kabutoro show up? man i hope its not like another one and done thing like danzou.

he is here to give sasuke more power ups , and i'm serious ... this is obvious

zagorka
February 13, 2010, 06:18 AM
I don't really understand how Kabuto would give Sasuke a power up? Are you suggesting that if they fight, Sasuke will copy techniques, or grow?

tousendrinksbleach
February 13, 2010, 07:16 AM
I don't really understand how Kabuto would give Sasuke a power up? Are you suggesting that if they fight, Sasuke will copy techniques, or grow?

he will get more free power ups ... that's obvious : when sasuke fights, he first gets pwnt : this is kishi's lame excuse because next , sasuke gets huge power-ups ...
next time, he will get tsukyomi buffs

edit : if you want a proof that naruto is crap recently , just look at bleach section ... i've never seen ppl discussing bleach more than naruto , good job kishi you doing well

3c
February 13, 2010, 07:34 AM
edit : if you want a proof that naruto is crap recently , just look at bleach section ... i've never seen ppl discussing bleach more than naruto , good job kishi you doing well

That's kinda because Bleach is at it's "peak" now and therefor is actually interesting. When Bleach becomes interesting it instantly gains massive popularity because it's a rarity for Bleach being interesting.

As for Naruto, fans are to busy complaining about hating Sasuke and about him being emo to be able to enjoy the manga. I get that it's going downhill as I myself agree with the manga having gone and still is going slightly downhill (although I think it's becoming more interesting again), but the hate lately has been rather absurd in some cases.

Zatono
February 13, 2010, 07:42 AM
That's kinda because Bleach is at it's "peak" now and therefor is actually interesting. When Bleach becomes interesting it instantly gains massive popularity because it's a rarity for Bleach being interesting.

Let me just say that Bleach is much better if read in volumes, not chapters.



As for Naruto, fans are to busy complaining about hating Sasuke and about him being emo to be able to enjoy the manga. I get that it's going downhill as I myself agree with the manga having gone and still is going slightly downhill (although I think it's becoming more interesting again), but the hate lately has been rather absurd in some cases.

It's not really about his emo-ness, it's about his plot shield and plot armour, no, wait, it's about his ridiculous power ups and seemingly limitless chakra. That's not right...yeah, it's about him being emo.

Gats
February 13, 2010, 07:53 AM
he will get more free power ups ... that's obvious : when sasuke fights, he first gets pwnt : this is kishi's lame excuse because next , sasuke gets huge power-ups ...
next time, he will get tsukyomi buffs

edit : if you want a proof that naruto is crap recently , just look at bleach section ... i've never seen ppl discussing bleach more than naruto , good job kishi you doing well

Proof is not a matter of people's opinion, or so called majority's opinion.

tousendrinksbleach
February 13, 2010, 07:58 AM
Proof is not a matter of people's opinion, or so called majority's opinion.

this is a manga we are talking about ... when the majority isn't interested its aproof .... dont try to use maths here ,it won't work

Gats
February 13, 2010, 08:05 AM
Sasuke's power-ups make sense. Yeah, it does. The only things I would find questionable is his hawk stuff and to some extent his chakra supply.

We are talking about Sharingan power-ups, a doujutsu that never needed training to power-up since part 1, just strong feelings. We are talking about a power that kills your eyes, it seems to kill them so much that even Madara the "Master of Hatred and Blindness" told him to not spam his MS powers. It wouldn't make any sense if Sasuke had to train properly just like Naruto this kind of power, if he had to, THIS would not make any sense, training while loosing your eye's light.

You don't like it ? Fine. Is it really bullshit ? No (about MS powers upgrade).
[hr]

this is a manga we are talking about ... when the majority isn't interested its aproof .... dont try to use maths here ,it won't work

The point of view from some guys in the forum is not sufficient to make this kind of argument viable.
Even more when the views of Naruto's thread is more than 20 000+ bigger than Bleach's thread. There are more people who are reading than writing, taking replies only is also pointless. Do you know the point of view of guys who are only reading ?

tousendrinksbleach
February 13, 2010, 08:12 AM
Sasuke's power-ups make sense. Yeah, it does. The only things I would find questionable is his hawk stuff and to some extent his chakra supply.

We are talking about Sharingan power-ups, a doujutsu that never needed training to power-up since part 1, just strong feelings. We are talking about a power that kills your eyes, it seems to kill them so much that even Madara the "Master of Hatred and Blindness" told him to not spam his MS powers. It wouldn't make any sense if Sasuke had to train properly just like Naruto this kind of power, if he had to, THIS would not make any sense, training while loosing your eye's light.

You don't like it ? Fine. Is it really bullshit ? No (about MS powers upgrade).

ok let's see
time:
00.00 sasuke awakens baby susano (oh yeah when he was about to get killed :facepalm )
00.10 sasuke awakens itachi's version of susanoo (yeah when he was going to take 10 attacks from all the ninjas arroun :facepalm :facepalm )
00.40 sasuke is capable of using partial susanoo , to save his chakra (oh , the kid became a pro susanoo user :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm )
00.50 sasuke surpasses itachi and awakens a super susanoo with a ranged attack that is very hard to dodge (nothing to say :oh )

let's not talk about how many mistakes a jenin wouldn't make and that kage level ninjas make when fighting sasuke , and how many times was sasuke saved right before his death? huh?

Gats
February 13, 2010, 08:34 AM
ok let's see
time:
00.00 sasuke awakens baby susano (oh yeah when he was about to get killed :facepalm )
00.10 sasuke awakens itachi's version of susanoo (yeah when he was going to take 10 attacks from all the ninjas arroun :facepalm :facepalm )
00.40 sasuke is capable of using partial susanoo , to save his chakra (oh , the kid became a pro susanoo user :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm )
00.50 sasuke surpasses itachi and awakens a super susanoo with a ranged attack that is very hard to dodge (nothing to say :oh )

let's not talk about how many mistakes a jenin wouldn't make and that kage level ninjas make when fighting sasuke , and how many times was sasuke saved right before his death? huh?

What's your point ? You prefer to see Sasuke awakening Susano'o while he is watching himself in a mirror ? Using it when he was not in danger ?

I don't see how it would be cooler but the fact remains that you just don't like it, not that it's not quite logical. I don't see any argument against my "MS powers explanation".

We've never seen Itachi using these during his first MS experience and I don't see how you can say that Sasuke has surpassed Itachi with his not so superb Susano'o since Itachi had a Susano'o with an invincible shield and the ultimate blade.

It's quite classical in a Shounen to awaken some kind of power when you are nearly killed. Maybe Kishi realistic style makes you forget it's a shounen.

My point is not "wow it's soooo great", my point is "despite how you feel about it, it still makes sense".

Oblivion
February 13, 2010, 08:54 AM
As for Naruto, fans are to busy complaining about hating Sasuke and about him being emo to be able to enjoy the manga. I get that it's going downhill as I myself agree with the manga having gone and still is going slightly downhill (although I think it's becoming more interesting again), but the hate lately has been rather absurd in some cases.

so true...oh i cherish the time when i first joined and people were actually trying to predict stuff in the manga or creating theories or discussing the chapter and plot development, which is still their alas maybe not as great as some would hope for. but still worthy of prediction, theories and discussion.

now it's all about sasuke and how and when he will gain his next power up. Him being so emo-hax wouldn't be so much of a problem if people wouldn't point it out in EVERY SECOND POST.....

what we still have to discuss:

The Ying/Yang deal about chakra is still to be introduced. i guess this will happen the next time naruto trains. so anyone thinks this will collide with naruto getting jiraya's scroll? Maybe naruto will get it and ask kakashi to help him deal with whats writtin in it.

Btw what the hell did the ninja's learn in school??? Naruto had to be taught about the elemental aspect of chakra and he still doesn't know about ying/yang stuff. How does he want to become a good ninja if he doesn't look up this stuff or taught right away o.O

another thing:

I guess whenever Kabutomaru will show up he will be used as a power-up fight for Naruto or to test Narutos new technique he learend after he lesson about ying/yang chakra.

or maybe Kabuto will be Kakshi's opponent.

i can't wait to see Kabutomaru again. What his new goals are, how much he still has retained of his concious and then finally the plot won't dwell too much in uchiha affairs.

uuuuh...long post...

ashher
February 13, 2010, 09:47 AM
Let me just say that Bleach is much better if read in volumes, not chapters.


that's true for naruto as well

Oblivion
February 13, 2010, 09:52 AM
Let me just say that Bleach is much better if read in volumes, not chapters.that's true for naruto as well

that's true for about every manga xD

ashher
February 13, 2010, 09:58 AM
i always thought kishi undertook an exceptionally difficult challenge in part 2 as he decided to develop both the villain and the hero.....i dunno if any other shonen has attempted anything this difficult.heck most of them don't even try to develop the hero.

and in naruto part 2,importance of fights have gone down(bonds/interactions between characters' taking the main stage),another thing that is too uncommon to be popular exactly....plots have become so much more character oriented than for coming up with scopes for fights.

i mean here we are having a parallel and opposite development of sauske and naruto....and ppl are complaining.seems like most of them would've preferred if things went normal shonen way.....that is one arc for sasuke,one for hyuuga one for lee.......of course a born villain would've been one to pull strings,and in each case naruto the hero would've fought the last fights and ultimately would've met the 'boss'.this alternative would've been more usual for a shonen,and i am 90% sure it would've been more popular,but i wouldn't have bothered to read it.i believe that type of development is too sallow and too low-quality.

Oblivion
February 13, 2010, 10:24 AM
at ashher and jdw: i think your discussion is better suited for the 'is naruto going downhill..' thread.

but my 2 cents: i like the idea that two different type of characters are developed side by side and i pretty much like how naruto matures and sasuke becomes more and more evil. But the flow of the manga is relentless; the plot just goes on and on without any real break. The plot AROUND those characters is also a bit absurd.

Developing two characters at the same time: a villian and the hero is a common feat but it could be done a bit better in naruto. Read Berserk and you'll see what i am getting at. The way Guts gets more and more of a killing machine who could even endanger his comerades and the way Griffith is taking more and more control over the world is astonishingly well done. The whole change of the world and thus Guts plot is interwined with Griffiths plot. It's also at a pace i am more comfortable with than in Naruto. And berserk doesn't have any stupid side plots while developing the characters. There is no: LETS HUNT KILLERBEE NOW, no KILLERBEE vs. SHARKGUY.

i really liked how naruto's jutsu development was included in the shikamaru revenge arc. Or Sagemode and Maturity in the Pain-Invasion Arc.

Sasuke on the other hand randomly spawns anywhere on the map just to make him fight with anyone. Sasuke's whole fight against the Kages was without any merit. Everything that was shown about him there could also have been presented with him vs. Danzou in a much tigther form. Sasuske forming a team was also pretty much useleass because the team had NO USE so far. Everything could have been done without them. Where are they now? 2 of 3 scatterd somewhere else and 1 or 3 about to be killed....

The problem isn't that the mein characters aren't developed but that the plot is too lose. it could be soo much tighter. Pain Invasion Arc is a good example: Invasion/Training-Fight-Conclusion/Endbout/Naruto gains levelup (+1 to intellect +1 to Maturity)

Ninjaedit: i could've sworn their was a post from JDW directed at ashher

ashher
February 13, 2010, 10:56 AM
@oblivion:

no pal,there was no post from jdw directed at me......i merely made the previous post bcuz someone said that bleach is getting more 'interesting'.i wanted to point to out that naruto's strong points are likely to be less interesting to shonen fans.

also berserk is a seinan,i was strictly talking about shonens.its challenging to go against popular shonen formats in a shonen that is what i was trying to say.(of course,FMA is another such brave attempt)

i do think sasuke is a very well developed character(power-ups aren't that important to me),but ur point about the plot being loose is something i totally agree with.

Oblivion
February 13, 2010, 11:30 AM
am i having illusions or what o.O i thought jdm replied to you with HOW the development of the chars sucks but not THAT they are developed....hmmm w/e...

FMA has a typical arc by arc developement with 2 or 3 plots going around the same time which all end once an arc finishes and new plots begin with the new arc. Naruto would do well with such pauses between arcs that are more condensed and focused.

Now lets switch the discussion to plot:

KABUTOMARU, what you'll think he is doing and when he'll be shown?

ashher
February 13, 2010, 11:42 AM
am i having illusions or what o.O i thought jdm replied to you with HOW the development of the chars sucks but not THAT they are developed....hmmm w/e...

ohh then i missed that one,sorry.


KABUTOMARU, what you'll think he is doing and when he'll be shown?

i don't really think he is gonna be very much important.he might make a cameo appearance and go out quickly like kisame.

edit:if he indeed comes to have a semi-important role,then it might be connected with the sharingans as he is an expert in sharingan-operation.
or we might get another round between tsunade vs oro.

3c
February 13, 2010, 12:10 PM
I have nothing against Sasuke, but my dream plot would be if Kabuto killed Sasuke in a heartless and dirty manner. Of course alot of stuff would happen before this. Kabuto would cause troubles for both the alliance and Akatsuki during the war. He would be a wildcard, a rogue ninja completely on his own, with no allegiances. He would be the grey between black and white, and hurt both sides. Ultimately he would attack Sasuke and completely dominate him, and in the end killing him. Naruto finds out > Naruto kills Kabuto (end?) or the old plot simply goes on if it hasn't been resolved. Of course this will never happen as Sasuke most definitely won't be killed off like that, but my god I think this would be so amazing and incredibly daring on Kishi's part.

KABADAYI
February 13, 2010, 08:12 PM
i have a question.

as everybody knows, madara have to gather all the biijuu's. İ mean he needs to their chakra to become one with everthing :)

i just wonder how can he do that while other kyuubi's chakra is gone. what i want to say is that Naruto have half of kyuubi's chakra, and we dont know yet, where is other one?

İS there a bug that kishi make again? Or we can think, that other kyuubi chakra is in someone.

GOOMOONRYONG
February 13, 2010, 09:04 PM
I really want to know what Madara is planning there are still many questions out there. Ah I must know!!!

M3J
February 13, 2010, 11:02 PM
This area is for Naruto, not for other manga. <_<

DARK
February 13, 2010, 11:17 PM
I have nothing against Sasuke, but my dream plot would be if Kabuto killed Sasuke in a heartless and dirty manner. Of course alot of stuff would happen before this. Kabuto would cause troubles for both the alliance and Akatsuki during the war. He would be a wildcard, a rogue ninja completely on his own, with no allegiances. He would be the grey between black and white, and hurt both sides. Ultimately he would attack Sasuke and completely dominate him, and in the end killing him. Naruto finds out > Naruto kills Kabuto (end?) or the old plot simply goes on if it hasn't been resolved. Of course this will never happen as Sasuke most definitely won't be killed off like that, but my god I think this would be so amazing and incredibly daring on Kishi's part.

Sasuke being killed off by a minor character? Inconceivable!

Darth Executor
February 14, 2010, 12:18 AM
Kabuto will probably fight sasuke to showcase and hype sasuke before his battle with naruto. I'm guessing naruto will be fighting zetsu to hype up naruto. madara will either die in an inglorious manner at the hands of sasuke (emperor and vader style) or he'll lose to kakashi.

Katz
February 14, 2010, 01:44 AM
^good theories, but in all honesty if sasuke fights Kabuto sometime this year or w/e (since this is "sasuke's" year..ahaha) it'll be just another steping stone, hell by then he might be touting EMS with Itachi's eyes....but a naruto zetsu fight is someting I'm interested in, not for naruto (screw him) but to showcase what zetsu, he has to be more than a scout and "body remover" to be in the akatsuki

Rikudou King
February 14, 2010, 02:09 AM
I don't think Naruto would get any hype fighting Zetsu. As far as we've seen from Zetsu, He's far from a powerhouse. That could change later on, But I think if Naruto and Zetsu fought, It'll be more to showcase some new thing Naruto gained.

3c
February 14, 2010, 05:45 AM
For some reason I just can't imagine Naruto fighting Zetsu. It would be a very random fight, and that's okay, but for some reason I just can't imagine it happening. Honestly I don't see Naruto fighting anyone seriously before perhaps Zetsu, or maybe a small skirmish with Sasuke before their actual real battle. I really don't see Zetsu as a fitting opponent for Naruto in terms of abilities, he just doesn't seem like the type. Pain was fitting, so is Kabuto, and Sasuke is too. But Zetsu seems more like an opponent that would be fitting for someone like Kakashi.

Oathencrantz
February 14, 2010, 06:08 AM
But we must remember that Zetsu may still be seething from being called Aloe Vera, lol. For all we know, Zetsu may appear as Naruto's running towards Kakashi and be like, "I dare you to say that shit to my faces, I DARE you!"..... then he starts fighting like Bulbasaur.

David Gill
February 14, 2010, 06:48 AM
For some reason I just can't imagine Naruto fighting Zetsu. It would be a very random fight, and that's okay, but for some reason I just can't imagine it happening. Honestly I don't see Naruto fighting anyone seriously before perhaps Zetsu, or maybe a small skirmish with Sasuke before their actual real battle. I really don't see Zetsu as a fitting opponent for Naruto in terms of abilities, he just doesn't seem like the type. Pain was fitting, so is Kabuto, and Sasuke is too. But Zetsu seems more like an opponent that would be fitting for someone like Kakashi.

In all honesty, I think Sasuke will fight ever single good and bad guy left in the Narutoverse before his final showdown with Naruto. Whereas Naruto will be training, training.......and training until he meets Sasuke at the end. With kishi you can't rule out this possibility.:darn

Tamata
February 14, 2010, 07:12 AM
Yeah it could be that Zetsu interferes while Naruto is on his way to Sasuke's position. So Kakashi/Sakura and Sasuke have a showdown.

Gats
February 14, 2010, 09:23 AM
My answer for the post in the next chapter prediction thread :

Sometimes I wonder why Minato didn't put Kyuubi inside Kakashi. A genius with a sharingan, he would taming Kyuubi with his eye and wouldn't lack stamina, he is not the type to have anger.

kingplaya(minato)
February 14, 2010, 09:57 AM
My answer for the post in the next chapter prediction thread :

Sometimes I wonder why Minato didn't put Kyuubi inside Kakashi. A genius with a sharingan, he would taming Kyuubi with his eye and wouldn't lack stamina, he is not the type to have anger.

Honestly speaking, the kyuubi's chakra would tear him apart in just two seconds!...
He is not an uchiha and would not be able 2 control the kyuubi well(if at all) and then poor kakashi would have 2 use his normals chakras to keep two foreign objects in place... Kyuubi and sharingan, somehow i just think that is too much 4 him and he would go bust within within a few secs...

hakuthehedgehog
February 14, 2010, 10:13 AM
A Bijuu needs to be put in a baby or in an infant in order for the host's body adapt.
Kakashi has naturally low chakra, even lower with his sharingan, so putting Kyuubi into him whould be a bad choice.

Oblivion
February 14, 2010, 11:23 AM
@3cmm: yeh zetsu seems to a tricky opponent. Much like deidara he isn't suited for a brawl-fighter like Naruto. Maybe in the future Tsunade can fight him?

Kabutomaru will definitly fight against Naruto or Kakashi. Kabuto has more to do with Naruto and Kakashi. (Uuuuuuh Kabuto vs. Kakshi i soo wish this could happen again^^)

Gats
February 14, 2010, 11:28 AM
AN infant or baby is supposed to have insignificant stamina and chakra, so why it would work on them and not for Kakashi ?
Where is it said that it must be an infant ? (Kakashi was still a child during this time after all)

demons_halo
February 14, 2010, 11:29 AM
@3cmm: yeh zetsu seems to a tricky opponent. Much like deidara he isn't suited for a brawl-fighter like Naruto. Maybe in the future Tsunade can fight him?

Kabutomaru will definitly fight against Naruto or Kakashi. Kabuto has more to do with Naruto and Kakashi. (Uuuuuuh Kabuto vs. Kakshi i soo wish this could happen again^^)

maybe kabuto Vs kakashi is where kishi is planning on leveling kakashi up? :D we might see some new MS jutsu coming from kakashi :D:D
or maybe a new mega chidori :P

BBB Banana
February 14, 2010, 11:39 AM
It was said in the manga that in order to be a jinchuriky you need loads of chakra and I'm not sure about this but you can only seal a bijuu in a new born child.

Oblivion
February 14, 2010, 12:17 PM
Naruto is BORN with more chakra than Kakashi. You can't power up your chakra stamina (or else Kakshi would have done it). As a baby you can't tap into that chakra and do crazy diaper jutsu's. But i guess everyone is tanked with the same max amount of chakra he is born with.

Btw the only non-infant who has yet a bijuu in himself was the sage and that was as we know a one of a kind beast.

And we still don't know what EXACTLY happened that night. Maybe Minato had to make a hasty decision and choose Naruto.

The better question should be: Why didn't he put the Kyuubi inside his wife Kushina?

As Kishi noted somewhere: Once we find out more about Kushina a lot of mysteries will be resolved. (Don't ask me where he said that but i kind of remember that he did ^^)

hawaplop
February 14, 2010, 12:39 PM
AN infant or baby is supposed to have insignificant stamina and chakra, so why it would work on them and not for Kakashi ?
Where is it said that it must be an infant ? (Kakashi was still a child during this time after all)

Kakashi was 12-13

brizzlle
February 14, 2010, 02:20 PM
do u think if sasuke and kakashi fight, that kakashi would hold back or be willing to use mangyeko on sasuke? Man i would be so depressed if kakashi dies at some point at the hand of sasuke. Please let it be madara or something like that, but not sasuke.

BBB Banana
February 14, 2010, 02:33 PM
Kakashi is probably going to die at some point so Naruto can be the new hokage.

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 14, 2010, 04:56 PM
Kakashi is probably going to die at some point so Naruto can be the new hokage.

He doesn't have to die for Naruto to become the hokage, he just have to step down when Naruto become capable enough to become the hokage.

I really don't see Kakashi dying in this series, not after he "died" and came back.

David Gill
February 14, 2010, 05:04 PM
He doesn't have to die for Naruto to become the hokage, he just have to step down when Naruto become capable enough to become the hokage.

I really don't see Kakashi dying in this series, not after he "died" and came back.

Yep, just like the 3rd hokage did for the Yondaime. Mind you I don't think Naruto will become the Hokage...More like the leader of the whole ninja world, especially after he defeats the godly Sasuke-kun.
Kakashi can't die again, that'd be abusing his caracter.

Sema
February 14, 2010, 05:08 PM
A Bijuu needs to be put in a baby or in an infant in order for the host's body adapt.
Kakashi has naturally low chakra, even lower with his sharingan, so putting Kyuubi into him whould be a bad choice.

I never read it in the manga that you have to be an infant as a condition ti be a jinchurikki. I believe Minato had a belief that since Naruto is a offspring of his he should have the ability to tame the Kyuubi one day.

3c
February 14, 2010, 05:11 PM
Kakashi can just step down after a few years when Naruto is ready. I don't see why everyone have to die all the time. It's like death is needed for everything lately; for impact, growth physically, growth mentally, penis length, for the lulz etc. Let Kakashi be, he's the only epic main character we have.

I really am against short term Hokages though. I think it's rather pathetic how Kages just get burned through. Sandaime is honestly the only Hokage that managed to sit very long in his position. He has like 80% of the overall Hokage period of all the Hokages combined, which is rather funny. Shodai died early, so did Nidaime. Yondaime was Hokage for a year or so, and Tsunade went into coma after three. Seriously if Kakashi is gonna be Hokage for a few years only it'll be pathetic. I'd honestly like it more if Kakashi just lead the village as the "Hokage" until Tsunade woke up. Then let her run the village a few more years and THEN she can give the position to Naruto, that would be beautiful.

David Gill
February 14, 2010, 05:13 PM
If Naruto were to be Hokage, the village would be empty, everyone would be searching for Sasuke.

jdw
February 14, 2010, 05:16 PM
If Naruto were to be Hokage, the village would be empty, everyone would be searching for Sasuke.

And when they all return empty handed and embarrassed, they would find the village taken over by a bunch of nins from smaller villages who all teamed up just to screw over the village formerly known as Konoha.

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 14, 2010, 05:19 PM
If Naruto were to be Hokage, the village would be empty, everyone would be searching for Sasuke.

Lol. This is an epic post. :D

You are probably right too.

Naruto is far from been ready to become hokage, imo. He needs to get his head out of Sasuke's ass first.

Rikudou King
February 14, 2010, 05:31 PM
It was said in the manga that in order to be a jinchuriky you need loads of chakra and I'm not sure about this but you can only seal a bijuu in a new born child. Yugito was two years old when she got the Nibi, So there seems to be some leeway.

3c
February 14, 2010, 05:36 PM
I never read it in the manga that you have to be an infant as a condition ti be a jinchurikki. I believe Minato had a belief that since Naruto is a offspring of his he should have the ability to tame the Kyuubi one day.

Easy. Minato just thought "Heey, it's not like anyone will do anything to my kid right? Akatsuki will just sit on their asses for 16 years and wait with capturing him for real until Naruto has become super strong, only then will their real attack begin, so it's okay! I'll put it in this baby. It'll be totally safe, I won't even have to worry until let's see... 16 years, that should be a long and nice nap."

Googlez_kun
February 14, 2010, 05:36 PM
Yugito was two years old when she got the Nibi, So there seems to be some leeway.

I guess it's not that important,since he probably rather meant it as a joke.

Yugito Nii got the Nibi with 2 years.

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 14, 2010, 05:50 PM
You know what, i will like to see Kakashi be the one to fight and defeat Kabuto. Defeat is an important word here, i don't want to see Kakashi be use to hype up Kabuto strength like he is alway use to hype other enemy strength before Naruto coming in and finish the job.

I really want to see Kakashi fight a ninja 1v1, without having to worry about others. I want to see him go all out and win.

Gats
February 14, 2010, 06:17 PM
Naruto is BORN with more chakra than Kakashi. You can't power up your chakra stamina (or else Kakshi would have done it). As a baby you can't tap into that chakra and do crazy diaper jutsu's. But i guess everyone is tanked with the same max amount of chakra he is born with.

Btw the only non-infant who has yet a bijuu in himself was the sage and that was as we know a one of a kind beast.

And we still don't know what EXACTLY happened that night. Maybe Minato had to make a hasty decision and choose Naruto.

The better question should be: Why didn't he put the Kyuubi inside his wife Kushina?

As Kishi noted somewhere: Once we find out more about Kushina a lot of mysteries will be resolved. (Don't ask me where he said that but i kind of remember that he did ^^)

You can power up your chakra stamina, or supply I would say, by training to some extent and by natural growth. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't be surprised by seeing Sasuke doing a fireball at the very beginning of the manga because a ninja of this age shouldn't have YET enough chakra stamina to perform this kind of jutsu.

Sasuke was able to do "only" two Chidori without risk in part 1, now he is spamming it.

Oblivion
February 14, 2010, 06:34 PM
You can power up your chakra stamina, or supply I would say, by training to some extent and by natural growth. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't be surprised by seeing Sasuke doing a fireball at the very beginning of the manga because a ninja of this age shouldn't have YET enough chakra stamina to perform this kind of jutsu.

Sasuke was able to do "only" two Chidori without risk in part 1, now he is spamming it.


And yet Kakashi who has a lot more experience than sasuke can only cast like 3-4 Chidoris max. I guess tapping more of ones chakra supply can be trained rather than increasing ones charka tank. (so your idea of supply should be correct rather than stamina)

But the question still remains:

Why not put the kyuubi into Kushina or anyone else?
And once naruto dies the kyuubi will be freed again, so what did Minato plan for that? What if Naruto suffocated on his food when he was living alone without someone looking after him and the kyuubi emerges from his dead body and unleashes hell on Konoha ???

Stevenh1990
February 14, 2010, 06:43 PM
So guys in your own opinion between Naruto and Killer Bee who has the cooler looking V2 ?

Googlez_kun
February 14, 2010, 06:47 PM
So guys in your own opinion between Naruto and Killer Bee who has the cooler looking V2 ?

Naruto's obviously,Bee's looks kind of fat to be honest,don't really like it.

ForMotherRussia
February 14, 2010, 06:47 PM
So guys in your own opinion between Naruto and Killer Bee who has the cooler looking V2 ?

B's bull horns are awesome, fox bones suck hard.

CBlitz
February 14, 2010, 06:47 PM
V2s in general don't look that cool, kinda looks like lazy drawing to me. Though adding the bijuus skeleton was kinda neat. I prefer the veins and muscles version (when 8TK bursts out of Chibaku Tensei)

hakuthehedgehog
February 14, 2010, 06:52 PM
Killer Bee's bull skeleton looks badass in V2.
Anyways, I think the Bijuus need to be sealed in infants for the chakras to mix and the body forcefully adapt to the Bijuu, which should give better results than putting it in a grown adult or teenager which has already grown quite a bit.
Anyways, how cool whould it be for Naruto to train with Roidkage and Bee?

Weapon_X
February 14, 2010, 06:54 PM
So guys in your own opinion between Naruto and Killer Bee who has the cooler looking V2 ?

Naruto's V2 shits on Killer Bee's V2.

Just look at that shit, http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-437/page016.html it's wicked. :tem

BBB Banana
February 14, 2010, 07:02 PM
You can power up your chakra stamina, or supply I would say, by training to some extent and by natural growth. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't be surprised by seeing Sasuke doing a fireball at the very beginning of the manga because a ninja of this age shouldn't have YET enough chakra stamina to perform this kind of jutsu.

Sasuke was able to do "only" two Chidori without risk in part 1, now he is spamming it.

Don't forget that Sasuke was also oro's lab rat tsunade said he was probably taking drugs to get stronger.

SageofSolus
February 14, 2010, 07:52 PM
so i was hoping someone could tell me the name of the song that plays during the sasuke vs killer be fight.

◆ T.D.A ◆
February 14, 2010, 08:03 PM
Don't forget that Sasuke was also oro's lab rat tsunade said he was probably taking drugs to get stronger.

He probably didn't because Sasuke said no to drugs.

BBB Banana
February 14, 2010, 08:59 PM
He probably didn't because Sasuke said no to drugs.

He was willing to do anything to kill Itachi so taking some drugs shouldn't be a problem for him.

Cykai
February 14, 2010, 09:46 PM
He probably didn't because Sasuke said no to drugs.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/184/02/

that sure as hell wasn't a cheeseburger (family guy reference)

elitefox
February 14, 2010, 10:43 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/441/06/

wow just notice that Naruto when I reread could have hyperventilated in the mid of the fight of pain...

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 14, 2010, 10:46 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/441/06/

wow just notice that Naruto when I reread could have hyperventilated in the mid of the fight of pain...

He doesn't remember anything once he goes 4tails and above.
[hr]
Naruto need to learn how to control the Kyuubi ASAP. Where the heck is that Seal-Toad Jiraiya told to go to Naruto?

Oblivion
February 14, 2010, 11:17 PM
Waiting for the plot around sasuke to develop and naruto deciding what he will do next time he sees sasuke.

elitefox
February 14, 2010, 11:41 PM
He doesn't remember anything once he goes 4tails and above.
<hr noshade size="1">
Naruto need to learn how to control the Kyuubi ASAP. Where the heck is that Seal-Toad Jiraiya told to go to Naruto?

Why did you quote me?

I just said that Naruto was going to hyperventilate that moment

if katsuyu said "yes you destroyed hinata" :blink

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 14, 2010, 11:48 PM
Why did you quote me?

I just said that Naruto was going to hyperventilate that moment

if katsuyu said "yes you destroyed hinata" :blink

Sorry, misread the post. I thought you said he hyperventilate there, i miss the word "could". I thought you were saying that he hyperventilated and that's why he didn't know what happen. My mistake.

GOOMOONRYONG
February 15, 2010, 02:01 AM
Isn't Madara's space time technique the same one that Kakashi possesses? I mean obviously Kakashi can't teleport but when it's activated they both look identical to each other. And both involve moving through different dimensions.

CBlitz
February 15, 2010, 02:10 AM
well Kakashi uses his from a distance, and Madara seems to limited to using his up close.

M3J
February 15, 2010, 02:40 AM
I think Madara's is superior. He can use it on himself and make him almost safe from any attacks. Though he may need to get up close, he can still almost accurate use it whereas Kakashi might not be as accurate nor can he use it on himself (at least not of yet).

Destined_One
February 15, 2010, 03:21 AM
My answer for the post in the next chapter prediction thread :

Sometimes I wonder why Minato didn't put Kyuubi inside Kakashi. A genius with a sharingan, he would taming Kyuubi with his eye and wouldn't lack stamina, he is not the type to have anger.

Yamato commented that it is the strength of Naruto's own chakra that allows him to with stand the Kyuubi's. I'm guessing Minato's suggestion that he believed Naruto could do it because he was his son, has something to do with the type of chakra he inherited. Is he really a Senju? that would explain a lot.

Also Kakashi never got the Kyuubi because the manga is called Naruto, though I do see the logic behind your thinking. A Jinchuriki Kakashi would be freakish.

Toby_Temple
February 15, 2010, 03:42 AM
Kakashi with the Kyuubi would own anyone even Madara and sasuke :wtf

3c
February 15, 2010, 05:26 AM
Naruto's V2 shits on Bee's imo. Naruto just looked incredibly badass with the skeleton, while Bee's V2 didn't have the same "wow" aura about it.


I think Madara's is superior. He can use it on himself and make him almost safe from any attacks. Though he may need to get up close, he can still almost accurate use it whereas Kakashi might not be as accurate nor can he use it on himself (at least not of yet).

Tbh I get the feeling of Madara and Kakashi's MS jutsus belonging to the same pair of eyes. One coming from the right and one from the left. I know that makes the Obito theory rise up again, but they are so similar that it just feels like to big a coincidence.

I agree that Madara's is superior. Kakashi's is pretty good too though. He's very fast with it, so technically he could own his opponent in seconds with it. But Madara's seem to be way more versatile if all Madara does comes from the same jutsu.

demons_halo
February 15, 2010, 09:20 AM
naruto in 4 tails mode made a freaking hole larger than a country, while bee's 4tails only managed to break open sauskes chest! He should have cut sauske in half ^^

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000225382/14.jpg

VS

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000073852/10-11.jpg

as a matter of fact, narutos 1tail mode in the VoTE fight did almost better than bee's 4 tails

hakuthehedgehog
February 15, 2010, 09:42 AM
naruto in 4 tails mode made a freaking hole larger than a country, while bee's 4tails only managed to break open sauskes chest! He should have cut sauske in half ^^

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000225382/14.jpg

VS

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000073852/10-11.jpg

as a matter of fact, narutos 1tail mode in the VoTE fight did almost better than bee's 4 tails

The power's not even comparable: bee was using a version one 3 tails while Naruto was using version 2 with 4 tails.
Bee's eight tails chakra blast was much bigger than anything the fox as shown.

warbandit66
February 15, 2010, 09:45 AM
Killerbee's power is controlled, Naruto's is not. The Kyuubi, who was in control at the point Naruto entered the 4 tails mode is simply a destructive beast so it's not surprising that it would cause such devestation to it's surroundings.

Googlez_kun
February 15, 2010, 01:05 PM
Do you guys want to hear Naruto,Sasuke,Sakura and Kakashi singing different openings?(it's quite old allready,but for those who don't know it yet)
Distance sung by Junko Takeuchi (N@rut0) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkaq53zsn4&feature=fvw)
Naruto All Stars: Sasuke - Scenario (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc3cqR2eMJs&feature=related)
Naruto All Stars: Sakura - Yura Yura (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_kFnAIMvzU&feature=related)
Naruto All Stars: Kakashi - R*O*C*K*S (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1jOCwi3Nk0&feature=related)(:XD)
They are horrible,but funny:lmao

Weapon_X
February 15, 2010, 01:22 PM
Do you guys want to hear Naruto,Sasuke,Sakura and Kakashi singing different openings?(it's quite old allready,but for those who don't know it yet)
Distance sung by Junko Takeuchi (N@rut0) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkaq53zsn4&feature=fvw)
Naruto All Stars: Sasuke - Scenario (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc3cqR2eMJs&feature=related)
Naruto All Stars: Sakura - Yura Yura (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_kFnAIMvzU&feature=related)
Naruto All Stars: Kakashi - R*O*C*K*S (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1jOCwi3Nk0&feature=related)(:XD)
They are horrible,but funny:lmao

Sasuke's is the best, it sounds just like his voice. Sakura is #2, her was preety cool. Kakashi was 3rd, and Naruto's was the worst lol Didn't even sound like Naruto. :p

Cykai
February 15, 2010, 01:23 PM
Do you guys want to hear Naruto,Sasuke,Sakura and Kakashi singing different openings?(it's quite old allready,but for those who don't know it yet)
Distance sung by Junko Takeuchi (N@rut0) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkaq53zsn4&feature=fvw)
Naruto All Stars: Sasuke - Scenario (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc3cqR2eMJs&feature=related)
Naruto All Stars: Sakura - Yura Yura (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_kFnAIMvzU&feature=related)
Naruto All Stars: Kakashi - R*O*C*K*S (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1jOCwi3Nk0&feature=related)(:XD)
They are horrible,but funny:lmao

OH GOD! they need to take that mic away from naruto! sakura wasn't that bad
kakashi/sasuke are bad... not as bad as naruto, i mean, wow.

M3J
February 15, 2010, 01:39 PM
Naruto's V2 shits on Bee's imo. Naruto just looked incredibly badass with the skeleton, while Bee's V2 didn't have the same "wow" aura about it.



Tbh I get the feeling of Madara and Kakashi's MS jutsus belonging to the same pair of eyes. One coming from the right and one from the left. I know that makes the Obito theory rise up again, but they are so similar that it just feels like to big a coincidence.

I agree that Madara's is superior. Kakashi's is pretty good too though. He's very fast with it, so technically he could own his opponent in seconds with it. But Madara's seem to be way more versatile if all Madara does comes from the same jutsu.

I have a feeling space/time ninjutsu comes with EMS.