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Dice
February 13, 2010, 07:09 AM
Seeing that nobody opened a thread for this topic I though I should do this. Especially seeing that it's quite controversial.

Does Ace survive or is he really dead? Did he hit the bucket or does he life on to tell the story of is "almost death"?
This is the place to discuss that kind of questions but not only can you tell your reasonings why he should life or should die you can also predict future events that could follow his death for example.

Additionally I saw that some people have a bet. They are betting if he is dead for real or if he comes back somehow. The loser will make a picture of Luffy there avatar for two weeks.
Anybody that wants to participate: feel free to do so. I'm joining and I'm saying that he is indeed dead.

In the begining I thought that I could start a fun-topic about Ace death with funny reasons why he does survive (the funny is that I wrote that in the prediction thread and one of my examples was a Aizenspoof with Akainu hitting Sengoku instead of Ace and coincidentially someone made a pig with Akainu hitting Sengoku. Most probably without reading my post).


I won't start with my reasoning just because I already wrote to much. Feel free to discuss everything and now get started ;)

Black Mirror
February 13, 2010, 07:12 AM
the reason why nobody opened such a thread is because this question will be answered in the next chapter, so it doesn't make much sense. Everybody discusses this in the prediction thread.

Dice
February 13, 2010, 07:27 AM
That's actually the reason why I opened it. Now or never. If it's confirmed we could change the threadtitle into something like "how he could have survived" and go the fun-topic-way if there is a need to :D.

Furthermore this thread is also meant to discuss the possible impact of his death. The predictionthread won't be opened forever. Additionally Ace death (yeah I'm a believer) is something that big that it deserves a thread.

ScratchmenApoo
February 13, 2010, 07:49 AM
He is dead.
One Piece needs a major character to die in the current storyline. It can't keep going on with everyone magically surviving all the time (See Pell & Zoro). If Ace revives in the next chapter, I will be mad at Oda for doing that.
Right now I am praising him for killing off Ace and making Luffy go apeshit hopefully.

LoneLobo
February 13, 2010, 08:31 AM
Well, I'm just quoting from my review as I think it sums up my opinion pretty good.^^


Oda killing a character for real? And not in a flashback? What? Yes, you ‘re right. All the time we were complaining that Oda never kills of (important) characters except for flashbacks. Like Peruh (you know, the falcon guy). This let us to believe that he would never go out of his way. Well, he did this time. And I think this was a brilliant move, making something most (if not all) would not expect to happen. First giving us lots of hints that Whitebeard will die. Then Ace gets free. And then he goes out of his way and kills him? Whoa! This was one great move. I think he saved the moment to kill a character for real in a moment he thought he really wanted it to happen.

modoki
February 13, 2010, 10:11 AM
Ace is dead. regardless of his youth, he is still to me considered part of the old generation. The moment he was defeated by Blackbeard, I lost all faith in ace.

Ace has his time to shine already, give the spotlight to someone else.

Like dragonballz ( gohan/cell), It seems Luffy needs a big push to awaken or unleash his full potential of Hakushou. Loosing someone he once grew up with and later dying in their hands will do it.

Toxic_
February 13, 2010, 11:13 AM
it is all a dream...luffy is in a dream state still stuck in impel down after being seriously poisoned by magellan....he will soon die and one piece shall end.


but on a more serious note , i think we will find out for sure in 6 more days.

Immo
February 13, 2010, 11:33 AM
Ace got most of his internal organs burned and have big hole in chest in place where heart and aorta is. His vivre card burned aswell. Whole chapter was about Ace dying. After all of that he cant be alive. Its like eating pizza whole chapter, talking about how delicious it was, and in next chapter you see same pizza again.

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 17, 2010, 11:28 PM
CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A MOMENT OF SILENCE? CAN WE PLEASE POUR SOME LIQUOR?

MUSIC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XloPzAn4SQ)
R.I.P PORTGAS D. ACE.
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo158/modakeke/Portgas_D__Ace-1-1.jpg
HE WAS ONE HELL OF A CHARACTER.

kkck
February 18, 2010, 12:16 AM
DON"T WASTE LIQUOR! It is more important than an actual human life. Ace died because he was a reckless arrogant asshole who refused to listen to superiors. Had he ever listened what his captain told him he would not have been captured by the marines or impaled by akainu. Glad he died, luffy brings more than enough reckless, impulsive, stupid and arrogant stunts as it is. Ace was hardly necessary as things stand.

mugen
February 18, 2010, 12:21 AM
Ace was worth shit the moment he got beat by BB. he sorta reminds me of pain, he could have been awesome but was fucked by the author. i lost all faith in one piece after this arc, wtf oars doesn't die after that but Ace does. Oda you fucked up. no one is even going to buy those volumes now in America because of this. Was there really a need or a push? i mean that was the fuckin point of the shabody arc, right? Luffy's crew getting split was going to make him stronger, right? Ace's death was unnecessary, especially now that whitebeaard is going to die too. I just hope BB gets his power raised to the 100th degree or whatever and gets beat by Luffy. If one piece is anything like code geass or death note, it will shut up those fans who think BB will be the final boss because teh story leads up to it. I'm done.

Poneglyph420
February 18, 2010, 12:28 AM
Ace was from his first meeting early on one of my favorite characters. To me Ace was essential to Luffy's development and growth. In so many ways he showed us what was in store for the future. For sure once he was beaten by BB, His fall all fueled by hubris was sealed. No doubt he Fu@ked up bad. But all in all he was a hero and martyr. Luffy has also been a reckless arrogant asshole, so Ace's death is indeed pivotal to Luffy truly having what it takes to endure the NW.

But while I won't be pouring out my 1979 vintage cognac...
Cheers to a Legend.
RIP Ace

bittman
February 18, 2010, 12:56 AM
DON"T WASTE LIQUOR! It is more important than an actual human life.

I'm hearing ya good buddy!


Ace was worth shit the moment he got beat by BB. he sorta reminds me of pain, he could have been awesome but was fucked by the author. i lost all faith in one piece after this arc, wtf oars doesn't die after that but Ace does. Oda you fucked up. no one is even going to buy those volumes now in America because of this. Was there really a need or a push? i mean that was the fuckin point of the shabody arc, right? Luffy's crew getting split was going to make him stronger, right? Ace's death was unnecessary, especially now that whitebeaard is going to die too. I just hope BB gets his power raised to the 100th degree or whatever and gets beat by Luffy. If one piece is anything like code geass or death note, it will shut up those fans who think BB will be the final boss because teh story leads up to it. I'm done.

So...you hate Ace, but your quitting because he died. Lovely rant, but a lot of what I just read was "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

If Oda made every awesome character shine, we'd have to spend 3 fucking chapters on every fucking battle. Bleach already sets a precedence for this sort of rubbish. A character's fanbase should not influence their overall standing in the manga. Take, for example, Negima where a gymnast by the name of "Maki" got HUGE popularity. Despite the fact that they then added her into more of the manga, she still has the role she was going to originally have: "background".

I could name you a hundred characters who are awesome but got shafted. Sometimes the reason awesome characters exist, is to be shafted. Of course, it can become overkill at times (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect).

I have no qualm with Oda not appeasing to the "masses". He's a writer, not a mindless teenage fan...and he probably already has all the bling he needs, so he wouldn't care if this hurt american sales...which it won't.

kkck
February 18, 2010, 02:13 AM
Ace was worth shit the moment he got beat by BB. he sorta reminds me of pain, he could have been awesome but was fucked by the author. i lost all faith in one piece after this arc, wtf oars doesn't die after that but Ace does. Oda you fucked up. no one is even going to buy those volumes now in America because of this. Was there really a need or a push? i mean that was the fuckin point of the shabody arc, right? Luffy's crew getting split was going to make him stronger, right? Ace's death was unnecessary, especially now that whitebeaard is going to die too. I just hope BB gets his power raised to the 100th degree or whatever and gets beat by Luffy. If one piece is anything like code geass or death note, it will shut up those fans who think BB will be the final boss because teh story leads up to it. I'm done.

While ace was not my favorite character (he was cool as hell yet useless) I do disagree with that part. BB is a wildcard and quite frankly his actual power could be within any range. He seems familiar with haki, has a DF which is impossible to avoid (gravity) and his smarts are quite more than what would be expected from someone who looks so much like a drunken hobo. He even managed to hurt and survive a fight against shanks who is supposed to be equal to WB in strength. BB is a lot stronger than what meets the eye and him defeating ace made sense.

Fox666
February 18, 2010, 04:58 AM
Some time has passed since Ace stopped breathing, so his body meat already started decomposition. If Kuma resurrects Ace now he would be a zombie with brain injure. :facepalm

Ace got most of his internal organs burned and have big hole in chest in place where heart and aorta is. His vivre card burned aswell. Whole chapter was about Ace dying. After all of that he cant be alive. Its like eating pizza whole chapter, talking about how delicious it was, and in next chapter you see same pizza again.

I could name you a hundred characters who are awesome but got shafted. Sometimes the reason awesome characters exist, is to be shafted. Of course, it can become overkill at times (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect).loool

mugen
February 18, 2010, 06:00 AM
I'm hearing ya good buddy!



So...you hate Ace, but your quitting because he died. Lovely rant, but a lot of what I just read was "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

If Oda made every awesome character shine, we'd have to spend 3 fucking chapters on every fucking battle. Bleach already sets a precedence for this sort of rubbish. A character's fanbase should not influence their overall standing in the manga. Take, for example, Negima where a gymnast by the name of "Maki" got HUGE popularity. Despite the fact that they then added her into more of the manga, she still has the role she was going to originally have: "background".

I could name you a hundred characters who are awesome but got shafted. Sometimes the reason awesome characters exist, is to be shafted. Of course, it can become overkill at times (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect).

I have no qualm with Oda not appeasing to the "masses". He's a writer, not a mindless teenage fan...and he probably already has all the bling he needs, so he wouldn't care if this hurt american sales...which it won't.

so you saying its ok to sell out?? matter of fact, the chapter was very bleach like, wtf more and more pain/pushing to make the main character more determined or whatever. Luffy is basically becoming more ichigo like. that is what i have a problem with.

Dice
February 18, 2010, 07:09 AM
Enduring pain is what Luffy always did...it's nothing new. Almost in every fight he was pushed beyond his limits. Furthermore he did nothing like punshing an admiral hard or defeating someone who was pretty strong, so I don't think that your comparison works.
In One Piece characters got stabbed quite often, loose limbs sometimes and survive (Shanks and Oars for example...ok Oars got a few more hits :D ) but in doesn't happen very often that the interiors of an character are burned.

Personally I think that it was good writing that Ace died and will I agree that he could be alive if he would have never challenged Blackbeard I also think that Akainu could have been able to reach him if he wanted to.

Ace death will have a huge impact. Not only Luffy will be affected but the whole world. As someone said it marks the beginning of the new era since Ace's death mirrors the death of Gol D Roger but there is a difference between those two deaths.
While both of them seemed to be somewhat inevitable at some point (Roger's disease and well we know about Ace but I hope you notice the word "somewhat" ;) ) Roger choose to die via execution instead of (slowly?) withering while Ace could escape the execution though he had lost his will to survive at some point.
So you could say that the unfree death of Roger herald the free age of pirates whereas Ace's free death might lead to a shift in powers which be cutting the freedome of pirates (the latter is such a assumption).

I might add that Ace even fullfilled his reason for living since he accomplished his dream (though he realised it quite late). No other really important character has achieved that (except maybe Whitebeard by sailing with his sons and rescuing Ace which actually failed; but anyway Whitebeard seems like someone who has no regrets in life and has achieved what he wanted to...well except the Ace-thing).

Btw: Who was joining in with the bet?

Btw 2: I heard that there is a legendary character named Fonzy who made it from a small role to a leading part because he was so popular. So this is a good example of a writer writing according to popularity.
Fonzy was indeed legendary though I now only a few scenes and maaany spoofs :D He would have kicked Akainus ass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NxGO2lx-A0)

deffkryz
February 18, 2010, 08:31 AM
I see, this thread has been easily transformed into a mere bashing thread to badmouth Oda and his story... Seriously, I'd wish people would stop comparing OP to such random crap like Bleach, FMA, Negima, Naruto or even "Star Trek" (c'mon!) out their inability to criticize objectively and based on the story itself. And no, "I like that other manga better" or "I liked/didn't like Ace" aren't arguments. :BlahBlah

And don't give me that "freedom of speech" sh*t... If you're not getting over the recent chapters - seriously, stop reading One Piece and take your freedom to choose that other story! You won't be able to change what happened by grumbling over what happened to your obviously former favorite Shounen manga, nor will you be less disappointed in the near and far future. :nerve

And now, I'm looking forward to be called a "fanboy".

on-topic: (but I think it's better to merge this thread into the Mega Convo II)
Yes, for now he's dead, because out of many depicted reasons: Vivre Card, Ace lying down smiling, all Pirates + the Sabaody audience are thinking that Ace died. So - he is dead.

Jinbei left him behind while rescuing Luffy. But I'm curious about where Marco was when WB attacked Akainu.

If Ace is about to be revived will depend on Oda solely.


Ace died because he was a reckless arrogant asshole who refused to listen to superiors.

Oh... really? What a surprise: A "D" doesn't listen to his superiors (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Monkey_D._Garp) and is sort of a reckless arrogant asshole (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Marshall_D._Teach). :sweat

No, Ace died to save Luffy - to correct his error for being tempted by Sakazuki. In a certain way, Ace fulfilled his dread to give his life for the future PoK


wtf oars doesn't die after that but Ace does.

What kind of logic is that? Oars is a freaking giant and Moria a f*cking moron. You really think that little mosquito bite called "Tsuno Tokage" would have been able to kill Oars?


Oda you fucked up.

Well... no. Just because Kishimoto M. seriously fucked up Pain by being talked to death by Naruto? :loma


Was there really a need or a push?

Stories don't need neither a need nor a push to go on. Plus: Ace died one(!) chapter ago and outcome of it has already partially been shown. Whitebeard's rage that has been stated by Buggy back in Chapter 233 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/233/13/).


i mean that was the fuckin point of the shabody arc, right?

No, Sabaody was for introducing Rayleigh, Shakuyak, the Supernovae, Tenryuubito, Kizaru, Sentoumaru and other Pacifista - and to depict the racism against the Merfolk by making Caimie a recurring character and by having Hatchan a comeback.


Luffy's crew getting split was going to make him stronger, right?

No, they were split to rescue each of them. That the Strawhats would become stronger because only of the fact that they met with some other people is - so far - nothing but a fan theory (based on Franky finding Vegapunk's lab) and part of one crappy anime filler (that one about Nami).

Luffy didn't have that much of a strength development that he didn't show against the looo~ong list of characters he already has beaten so far - so his crewmates won't have either.


If one piece is anything like code geass or death note, it will shut up those fans who think BB will be the final boss because teh story leads up to it. I'm done.

One Piece is One Piece, and it's success entitle Oda to do with the story and the characters whatever he wants and what he may have planned already before even introducing them. Even if some other people might be disappointed though.


Right now I am praising him for killing off Ace and making Luffy go apeshit hopefully.

Luffy is B-R-O-K-E-N and was already unable to move to evade Akainu's attack.

bittman
February 18, 2010, 04:41 PM
I thanked you, but given your rant at the start of the post...you're a fanboy, sorry, it's just fact. It was shown when you called other great manga "random crap"...not Bleach of course though, god that makes crap like Dai Dragon's Quest and Gantz look good.

Anyway, on topic I found something amusing which I thought this debate would enjoy:

http://img1.gelbooru.com//images/581/894ecd13fbc80ed57105a9031d434ee9b3b183ea.jpg?711937

I feel it showcases just how bad some ideas about reviving Ace are...

mugen
February 18, 2010, 05:03 PM
that is most likely going to happen or we get pascifista ace. or we can get the Ace was evil all along thing. Umm you drew that?

Roarchu
February 18, 2010, 07:24 PM
that is most likely going to happen or we get pascifista ace. or we can get the Ace was evil all along thing. Umm you drew that?


http://g0069.deviantart.com/art/Zombie-Ace-153979432

"How about you and I hook up?" lol
http://g0069.deviantart.com/art/How-About-You-and-I-Hook-Up-139734178

Ace
http://g0069.deviantart.com/gallery/#_featured--18

there's more

deffkryz
February 18, 2010, 09:10 PM
It was shown when you called other great manga "random crap"

So what? I may not have my own opinion? Those other manga are just "random crap" to me - I started reading all of those mentionned but then put them aside out of their pure randomness, no big events, almost no characters kept in mind. I actually prefer some other serieses over OP or rate them equally, but I don't even dare to compare OP with them, not even One Piece and Fairy Tail which I rated higher when OP got stuck on Thriller Bark.

But "critics" just have to be cruel if it's about their very special opinion even if they hit the wrong ones with their words (= the readers, not the author), don't they? There's just one little flaw in your theories that Oda doesn't know how to build up stories: His story's success which is still growing even after more than 11 years.

modoki
February 18, 2010, 10:02 PM
Regardless, Ace's death will be a big scar to all the NW pirates and beyond. Just imagine how Garp feels right about now and how this may affect him after the war. Lets not forget Dadan.