PDA

View Full Version : Chapter 252 Discussion [Bleach]



Predator
November 09, 2006, 01:34 PM
Now then ..... go and get everything. It's Here (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=10953.0).

:amuse

bax
November 09, 2006, 01:55 PM
I say, another full fighting chapter next week.

So, Chad and Ishida are finally stopped in their tracks. Probably by ex-Esapdas as well. Now, where is Rukia and Renji?

So, maybe in the next chapter, Ichigo will finally realize that he needs BanKai to bail him out this time. So now, we may get to see whether achieving the Vizard mode really helps with his normal Shinigami mode or not.

And should be something Kubo wants to say about the last page (about Nell). I predict some uber latent powers of hers. She could be the one who save Ichigo :tem

mitterand
November 09, 2006, 04:47 PM
anyone see that thing/light coming out of nells head maybe thats the key hopefully. Ichigo sux now like wth any other captain ie. byakuga would not be so raw in fighting and think properly... gah ichigo when will u mature? aside from that we will prolly see in the end of nex chapter ishida or chads fights- nell/bankai ichigo will prolly beat the espada at the first half of the chapter-- maybe he will even join ichigo who knows? right or give some secret cuz there has to be a reason he is an ex-espada.

lexx
November 09, 2006, 06:03 PM
I can see some of the wisdom in Ichigo's choice to not use bankai or the mask - they both overwhelm him, leaving him severely weakened after a fight. He can't keep it up that way, so he has to conserve his strength.

mangadictus
November 09, 2006, 07:00 PM
Preds preds preds: I think Neru will be involved with the fight cuz he kinda like panicked over what's happening with Ichigo. I dunno but I saw some white trail coming out of Neru's mask. Maybe it's just me. Also we get to see who Ishida and Chad are gonna be fighting with. And HOPEFULLY, we get to see the "guys" again, Uruhara, Ryuuken, Isshin, Keigo, Mizuro, and.... :glomp TATSUKI :glomp

Koen
November 10, 2006, 07:13 AM
Why am I having a feeling that neru can be of a great help towards ichigo. I somehow think that tiny little boy (who believes ichigo is his friend) will help ichigo. He bumped into ichigo and his mask was doing weird on his head. Now he sees ichigo having difficulties and again his mask is doing strange. Has ichigo a strong "ennemy"-ally

VeNoM87
November 10, 2006, 07:20 AM
Why am I having a feeling that neru can be of a great help towards ichigo. I somehow think that tiny little boy (who believes ichigo is his friend) will help ichigo. He bumped into ichigo and his mask was doing weird on his head. Now he sees ichigo having difficulties and again his mask is doing strange. Has ichigo a strong "ennemy"-ally


Aye i think Neru is actually quite powerfull and will be of very good use.

jester065
November 10, 2006, 12:41 PM
I for one want Ichigo to win this battle alone and not have to go bankai. For him to beat this guy would be a huge boost for Ichigo.. plus i'm tried of ichigo being saved all the time by someone.

ttxdragon
November 10, 2006, 02:38 PM
we will most likely not get to see anything of the human-world until they appear in HM to rescue or team or better to support them. altho i would really like to see more of tatsuki.

i kinda hope for the continuation of ichigos fight. for the next two or three chapters.
first, nell will go into battle and attack that 103-aranccar. He will get beat badly.
Ichigo gets desperate but still refuses to go bankai,
but realizes that he could use the mask in shikai too and try that. however the mask refuses to come out.
Instead we will see a materialized Shirosaki (or Hollow-ichigo, however you want to call him), like back in the zaraki-fight zangetsu appeared. the diffrence this time: there is no time-stop like that time. Shirosaki beats up that arrancar and then goes to beat up ichigo, saying he will finally make ichigo the horse.
Shirosaki goes all bankai and forces ichigo to do the same, an even battle will follow. on this point nell will help ichigo by taking shirosaki by surprise while ichigo occupies shirosaki.


i know this won't happen, but i would love it. just thinking about how frickin awesome shirosaki would beat that arranccar to a pulp with just shikai makes me shiver in excitement.

Another_Sky
November 10, 2006, 03:14 PM
It would be better if Kurosaki and Shirosaki works together. I mean Shirosaki is genious, and Kurosaki has potential. Well that's what Vizard is for, but Shirosaki has to be willingly fight with him not Kuro forcing him. Nell ofcoarse I don't think that any arrancars are weak. Hey isn't Vizard basically the same thing as Arrancars except it's vice-versa from each other?

You know how Ichigo's mom was killed by a hollow. Didn't they say in the manga that a person that's killed by a hollow, becomes a hollow themselves. We didn't see her in soul society does that mean she might become a Espanda herself or a Arrancar. Or just a normal hollow? That would be pretty awsome if Ichigo had to fight one of the arrancar with a full mask. Than he kills it than she takes off the mask than she's like "I am your mother" than Ichigo is like noooooo. It's star wars all over again. Maybe Orihime might encounter her when she's trying to destory that thing. Than she appears and helps her or something along the lines.

ttxdragon
November 10, 2006, 03:18 PM
You know how Ichigo's mom was killed by a hollow. Didn't they say in the manga that a person that's killed by a hollow, becomes a hollow themselves. We didn't see her in soul society does that mean she might become a Espanda herself or a Arrancar. Or just a normal hollow? That would be pretty awsome if Ichigo had to fight one of the arrancar with a full mask. Than he kills it than she takes off the mask than she's like "I am your mother" than Ichigo is like noooooo. It's star wars all over again. Maybe Orihime might encounter her when she's trying to destory that thing. Than she appears and helps her or something along the lines.

souls can get forced to become hollows by other hollows.
people killed by hollows get their souls eaten and end up neither in SS nor in HM, thus the hollows are that big of a problem, because they destroy the soulbalance of the worlds.

Another_Sky
November 10, 2006, 10:03 PM
souls can get forced to become hollows by other hollows.
people killed by hollows get their souls eaten and end up neither in SS nor in HM, thus the hollows are that big of a problem, because they destroy the soulbalance of the worlds.


Ohhh so that's why his mom is gone, but their still is a chance that his mom became a hollow right? Because hollow force souls to become hollows. So the next arrancar made might be his mother.

sblackburn
November 10, 2006, 10:15 PM
I predict Nelly's got an illusion/transport ability which'll rescue/save ichigo (who blows)

ttxdragon
November 10, 2006, 10:16 PM
Ohhh so that's why his mom is gone, but their still is a chance that his mom became a hollow right? Because hollow force souls to become hollows. So the next arrancar made might be his mother.

in the 06/17-arc it was clearly stated, that his mothers soul got eaten by grand fisher.
so. no, it's not possible we will see his mother as an arrancar.

heero_lee
November 11, 2006, 06:38 AM
Is it possible that Nell actually is a Vast Lord but has not awakened yet? He looks weak, however his form looks completely like a human except the mask on his head. And how come he does not have a soul cutter with him? I bet he will follow Ichigo to human world later.

WinterLion
November 11, 2006, 07:11 AM
Is it possible that Nell actually is a Vast Lord but has not awakened yet? He looks weak, however his form looks completely like a human except the mask on his head. And how come he does not have a soul cutter with him? I bet he will follow Ichigo to human world later.

Only Aizen's arrancars (the one that have been "awakened" using the Hougyoku) have zanpakutous because the zanpakutou is a sign that the hollow has become a hybrid of hollow and shinigami. Just being an arrancar doesn't necessarily mean that they're a hybrid hollow/shinigami. Like when Grandfisher first became an arrancar by the manual removal of his mask, he didn't get a zanpakutou then. But later when we see him after he's been treated by the Hougyoku, he has a zanpakutou.

As for predictions... I think Neru is going to at least try to give Ichigo a hand without really realizing what she's doing. (Because she's called herself weak so many times, she probably doesn't know that she has any real powers). After she inflicts a substantial amount of damage on Dordoni in one attack, Ichigo's going to tell her to stay out of it and that he can fight by himself. This will either happen next chap or the one after. And I think we'll see some of Ishida and Chad's fight the next chap, and maybe a glimpse of who Rukia and Renji will be facing. (Just like what we saw with Ishida and Chad this week). That's my predictions for the next chap, I know it's blah, but I'm trying to be realistic. :p

TooNice
November 11, 2006, 12:41 PM
I do think that Neil will try something, but I am not convinced that s/he has any serious abilities beyond Ururu level or perhaps vice-captain level. So it might enough for a sneak attack, or a combo that hurts an ex-Espada off guard, but I see the effect as temporary like Ururu's intervention in Renji's fight (perhaps without getting skewed).

Koen
November 12, 2006, 08:05 PM
Man, I think it would be cool of kubo to make some espada/hollow/arrancar as good guys too. He made some shinigami as a bad guy. He made of hanatarou someone who followed ichigo and going against orders of soul society. And now even byakuya lets renji and rukia ascape out of ss to hm. So why not making neru as a powerfull little "bad" ally helping ichigo... Neru loves ichigo, and I love neru :D

JusT.NarutO
November 12, 2006, 08:46 PM
My Prediction:

1- Neru attacks; A surprising attack but with no great effect. Then the Ex-Espada will attack him and he will get hurt; Ichigo get very angry "I´m being protected again.." etc.. Then he listen the voice of ZanGetSu. "Ichigo why you fear.." And some stuff like that.. And then Ichigo Will strike a freaking powerfull atack, to be finished only in the next chapter ^^
2 - We are going to see the face of chad and ishida challengers; And maybe some stuff from Inoue.

I really hope Ichigo to make it EASY; He is the man, we all know it ^^

mugen
November 12, 2006, 09:05 PM
I sense BANKAI!!!!!!

shinji2k
November 13, 2006, 12:56 AM
I'm really hoping that Zangetsu will show up sometime soon. We haven't seen him since he trained for bankai because hollow Ichigo had taken him over. But for now Ichigo is in control so maybe Zangetsu can come out and teach him some more things. We see Ikkaku and Hitsugaya talking to their swords for training after they've achieved bankai. If he were to talk to Zangetsu some more maybe he can teach him more about using all of his bankai or how to control his hollow side for more than 11 seconds. Something needs to happen soon if Ichigo is already struggling.

kyubisharingan
November 13, 2006, 06:03 AM
Nell is gonna use his Arrancar powers to save Ichigo

pan-pan
November 13, 2006, 01:50 PM
Ah, maybe I'm posting in the wrong thread, is this just predictions for next chapter or for the near future? Ah... well if I'm wrong feel free to ignore it ^^;

Has anyone given much thought to the item that Aizen showed Orihime? The name escapes me at the moment, but there's no way he'd show her exactly where it is if he didn't expect her to come after it later. I think he's anticipating her using her powers on it... so I wonder what it was before it was... Hougyoku? It was originally something Urahara made, wasn't it? That's part of the reason he left SS... So what would it do? Anyway... just something I've been pondering...

Also... Gin? Am I the only one wondering who he is really working for? He is with Aizen now, but he refers to the arrancar as "your troops" or "your men" as though he isn't really a part of it. I almost wonder if he might be working for Urahara, which is a scary thought in and of itself. But... it kind of makes sense... if say Gin wanted Matsumoto to be kept safe. The Espada went and fought with the Captains and Vices and who shows up to help? Urahara. Why? He has NEVER done something selfless. There has always been a secret reason, something selfish behind it. So what was the reason? Is he helping Gin? Is he helping Ichigo and the others? Where' s the connection? hmm?

While on the topic of Urahara... this one wonders if perhaps he isn't the one pulling Aizen's strings? It seems convenient that it was Urahara's research that Aizen was most interested in and he just happened to be able to gain access to it. And Urahara just happened to have made a gate to SS and Aizen just happened to know they would have visitors...(aka a distraction... ) and... it just seems like too much coincidence, yeah?

And just who is Ichi-papa in cahoots with? Why'd he wait until now to show up? I kind of wonder if he might have a relation to the Shiba family... it'd explain why Ichi looks like Kaien... Ah... it is suspicious though that he showed up when Yoruichi and Urahara did.

As for this fight? Ichi vs. creepy 103 guy? Ichi's gotta win, as he said, if he wants to have any sort of chance with the other Espada, he's gotta kick this guy's butt first. He must be pretty strong though. Former Espada and all. But Ichigo is as strong as MOST of the Captains from SS, and once they lifted the limit, they didn't have much trouble with the Espada... Did Hitsugaya even use Bankai? I can't recall... but it wasn't horribly difficult for him, right? So this guy Ichigo is fighting, he's probably about the same level, maybe a bit weaker? So I don't forsee Ichi having too much trouble with it.

Nell? Yeah, we all saw the mask spark. It did that earlier when he bumped into Ichigo too. Does that imply that Nell isn't a complete success? A complete fusion of hollow and shinigami? Perhaps that's his more powerful form trying to break loose? Dunno.

With Wonderweiss(sp?) I don't know that he's particularly STRONG, but perhaps it's an ability that Aizen wanted to breed into him? (aha... breed is probably not the best word, but I'm not sure what else to call it...) That just seems a little more likely. Aizen is all about strategy, not strength. He already has a lot of Arrancar that are very strong. It just seems more likely to me that he'd want ones with more powerful or specialized abilities, right?

Anyway... I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on it... it's fun to read theories and make your own. ^^ Can't wait for the next chapter!

ttxdragon
November 13, 2006, 02:27 PM
As for this fight? Ichi vs. creepy 103 guy? Ichi's gotta win, as he said, if he wants to have any sort of chance with the other Espada, he's gotta kick this guy's butt first. He must be pretty strong though. Former Espada and all. But Ichigo is as strong as MOST of the Captains from SS, and once they lifted the limit, they didn't have much trouble with the Espada... Did Hitsugaya even use Bankai? I can't recall... but it wasn't horribly difficult for him, right? So this guy Ichigo is fighting, he's probably about the same level, maybe a bit weaker? So I don't forsee Ichi having too much trouble with it.
ummm
the espada that went to earth... only urahara and shinji (i hope that was the vaizards name) didn't have trouble... and hitsu had his bankai and even needed to pull of one of his special attacks (1000year ice prison iirc) and still didn't kill his target (was it luppi?).
so i think ichigo could as well have some trouble against that espada... depending on how aizen numbers the tres-chiffre-arrancar that is.
if he makes them 1-01 till 1-10 then ichigo may get a hard time as he is right now... because that would mean that tres-chiffre is the former third ranked... thus he should be pretty good in the released state...

altho i too think that ichigo will win. without bankai and/or mask that is....

Another_Sky
November 13, 2006, 06:56 PM
Is it possible for hollow ichigo and zangetsu to materialize without Ichigo's body. If so then it would be 3 powerful guy against some people. Actually that kind of happens when Ichigo goes bankai/Vizard they are all working together. Well Nell is aka shinigami because he is arrancar that means Nell has a zanpakuto he could use against 103. I wonder what it's name is. Maybe Nell might even reach bankai, because Arrancar's can reach bankai too right?

Or maybe it would be the opposite ban so it would read zan. Zankai. Nell in zankai would be freakin awsome. Nell vs. yachiru would be the most adorable battle. (never would happen though) So in the next chapter Nell calls his zanpakutou than helps ichigo defeat 103. Than you barely see chad and ishida all beaten up because of 102 101.

Ichimaru helps Rukia, and Renji from dying. I honesty think Ichimaru dosn't want to this.

ttxdragon
November 13, 2006, 07:33 PM
Is it possible for hollow ichigo and zangetsu to materialize without Ichigo's body. If so then it would be 3 powerful guy against some people.
Shirosaki(Hollow Ichigo) and Zangetsu are the same. They are somewhat like Ichigo and Shirosaki are right now.


Actually that kind of happens when Ichigo goes bankai/Vizard they are all working together.
Nope, at that point in time Ichigo gets only part of the full potential from Shirosaki.


Well Nell is aka shinigami because he is arrancar that means Nell has a zanpakuto he could use against 103. I wonder what it's name is. Maybe Nell might even reach bankai, because Arrancar's can reach bankai too right?
I don't know what you would mean with 'Nell is aka shinigami', but so far we haven't seen a bankai-like arrancar state and seeing as all arrancar but grand fisher have lost their zanpakutous when releasing their 'shikai' it seems highly unlikely they have a bankai.


Or maybe it would be the opposite ban so it would read zan. Zankai. Nell in zankai would be freakin awsome. Nell vs. yachiru would be the most adorable battle. (never would happen though)
that battle would certainly be fun 'fight of the monster-chibis' xD

JusT.NarutO
November 13, 2006, 07:34 PM
Has anyone given much thought to the item that Aizen showed Orihime? The name escapes me at the moment, but there's no way he'd show her exactly where it is if he didn't expect her to come after it later. I think he's anticipating her using her powers on it... so I wonder what it was before it was... Hougyoku? It was originally something Urahara made, wasn't it? That's part of the reason he left SS... So what would it do? Anyway... just something I've been pondering...


That was Brilliant!
I just want to put some idea of mine into your theory, if you let me do it ^^

Supposing what you said: Aizen showed Hougyoku to Orihime. Orihime can make Hougyoku "Go back" in time, or "reject" anything like it never happens, right?

So, here it comes:

Inoue will not be able to destroy hougyoku. Hougyoku will, with her powers, come back to what it was before: A Not-sealed Hougyoku, with full powers! She will not reject the hougyoku existence. She will reject hougyoku sealed state! Omg!

Just wonder: If is to be so easy, then reject aizen! haha ^^

Man, you prediction was nice; Just to finish, i think Urahara is at ichigo-ss side, of couse; He is a good guy; No other way. But i think he is even more powerful then we think he are. And i predict a VERY NICE BANKAI for him ^^

VeNoM87
November 14, 2006, 04:26 PM
I also think there is something special (in a good way) about Ichimaru,curious what his bankai will be like cuz i'm sure he has one, he's just so.... strange. When they all "left" SS he also said: Take Care to the girly (forgot her name O_o), which you don't often say to an enemy (even though they were "friends").

kyubisharingan
November 14, 2006, 05:35 PM
ok, maybe we finally see Renji's fight..

ateatoi
November 15, 2006, 01:04 AM
my prediction is :
neru will have his zanpaktou !! and release his sword (shikai) :o

Bomber D Rufi
November 16, 2006, 01:25 PM
Well one thing is (Fairly) Sure...i just read the chapter and the bad guy (Not good with names) Refers to Neru as something in spanish but beside it in hiragana and kanji is "Ojouchan". So.....i guess Kubo is going with Girl here. Is it official? Me no know....

gigantor21
November 16, 2006, 02:01 PM
This is most likely off-topic, but does anyone know what this whole "All Color But The Black" thing is all about? They mentioned it last week, too...

Doldooni's face when Nell shot his own Cero back at him (and Nell's face while she was holding it) was priceless.

Bomber D Rufi
November 16, 2006, 02:13 PM
This is most likely off-topic, but does anyone know what this whole "All Color But The Black" thing is all about? They mentioned it last week, too...

Doldooni's face when Nell shot his own Cero back at him (and Nell's face while she was holding it) was priceless.


All Colour except the black is the Bleach artbook coming out early next month.

Lohnt
November 16, 2006, 03:35 PM
Ugh Ichigo wimped out and used Bankai >.>

gigantor21
November 16, 2006, 03:47 PM
Ugh Ichigo wimped out and used Bankai >.>


Better to be wimpy than be dead, right?

Plus Nell would've died if he hadn't done Bankai. He couldn't have moved that fast in Shikai form.

spactaa
November 16, 2006, 04:10 PM
He did this because he isn't selfish.

gigantor21
November 16, 2006, 04:14 PM
He did this because he isn't selfish.


Exactly.

ttxdragon
November 16, 2006, 05:01 PM
what is intresting here, is how fast he did the bankai.
he saw that fast attack, got into bankai, caught nell and deflected the attack.
i don't think we have seen him this fast before.

but... i loved the renji-comedy even if it just felt like filling up free space in terms of story development.

gigantor21
November 16, 2006, 05:15 PM
^Yeah, he did go into Bankai really fast. It shows that he has grown, at least...

Hopefully, he won't have to use the Hollow mask, too. Otherwise, his prospects of getting Inoue back look pretty slim.

Ashe
November 16, 2006, 05:40 PM
He did this because he isn't selfish.


This is true. But what Ichigo said earlier about not wanting to have to use bankai at this early stage is also pretty dead on. Even if he doesn't have to use his hollow, I think gigantor is right - the prospects for this mission are pretty slim.

I really think Ichigo and co. are going to have to "level up" at least a few more times before they're really ready to face Aizentachi. Maybe it's possible for them to do this on their own during the course of the mission, but I think it is far more likely that they are going to get their asses handed to them and have to beat a retreat until they've got a little more training behind them.

Cupcake
November 17, 2006, 05:20 AM
you know how these guys are ex-espada, well waht did they do to become exespada?
disobey Aizen's orders?
Because if thats it... then this guy is stronger than Grimjow.... And Ichigo can't even beat him... >>; but if they disobeyed Aizen's orders wouldnt that make them sorta good. the enemy of my enemy is my friend ?
or if they were beaten and had their spot taken it would still mean that he is incredibly strong for an espada...

Praeceps
November 17, 2006, 06:27 AM
Well I think they're older and weakers versions of the espada, I suppose Aizen got better at creating them over time and he replaced them with better versions. I think Ichigo shouldn't have much trouble with his bakai released now.

Koen
November 17, 2006, 07:43 AM
okay, I think that guy is done now. Using his bankai ichigo is really strong. Remember during his former fights when he didn't meet the vaizards. He always had problems fighting with his bankai because of that ichi-hollow. Now he trained well with the vaizards, and ichigo can control that other part. So this must mean that ichigo has become way stronger then he was in ss and when that ulqorollia (? or something like that) met him for the first time (Remember, he said ichigo his powers were fluctuating and that it sometimes was weak and other bigger then his)...

Yondaime_101
November 17, 2006, 08:18 AM
I think Nell will leave with Ichigo into the real world after this Hueco Mundo trip! She is getting so close to him, that I don't think she will leave him! Nell is the one of the best character introduced so far!

Urazz
November 17, 2006, 08:24 AM
^Yeah, he did go into Bankai really fast. It shows that he has grown, at least...

Hopefully, he won't have to use the Hollow mask, too. Otherwise, his prospects of getting Inoue back look pretty slim.

I wouldn't think so. If he is able to wound this guy in bankai without even breaking a sweat then he shouldn't need his mask unless he screws up in the fight.

lunotick
November 17, 2006, 04:13 PM
From the beginning I thought Neru was a vastrode. Now after this chapter I'm even more sure. Of course I could be wrong.

Urazz
November 17, 2006, 08:13 PM
From the beginning I thought Neru was a vastrode. Now after this chapter I'm even more sure. Of course I could be wrong.

I'm thinking that as well. Neru could possibly not know how to use all of her powers yet as she is a child.

sharingan_kakashi
November 17, 2006, 10:46 PM
I didnt know till this chapter that Neru was a she. Btw, what is a vastrode?

Dark Zeza
November 18, 2006, 03:07 AM
Finally Ichigo pull out his bankai to save Nell and Nell really did something after all. I hope Ichigo wont have to put on his mask to defeat this ex-espada.

bax
November 18, 2006, 11:01 AM
Btw, what is a vastrode?


Vastrode is the highest form of Menos. Gillian > Adjucas > Vastrode

Looking from how it is, Ichigo does seems have a chance to defeat Dorudouni without his Hollow Form. Although, his BanKai attack that cuts Dorudouni could be just a surprise attack after changing into BanKai mode. If Ichigo is forced to use Hollow Mode against Dorudouni, then he will have trouble with the Espada or even worse, if he stumbled into Aizen, Tousen or Gin.

Although, it's still unknown whether Ex-Espadas are lower in power or just being thrown out from Espada. But my bet, will be the latter. If they are being easured by power, logically, they should have attained the number of just above 10.

ttxdragon
November 18, 2006, 11:04 AM
Although, his BanKai attack that cuts Dorudouni could be just a surprise attack after changing into BanKai mode.
could be, but i guess he'll have no trouble, because the attack did cut through doldi's attack and his body... and that would need much power, seeing as getsuga tenchou only did cut through the attack because of the close range (at least that's what it seemed like)

bax
November 18, 2006, 11:10 AM
But if Dorudouni is prepared for that attack, the outcome could be different.

And personally, although Zangetsu is powerful, it's advantage lies on the speed. As long as this battle started, Ichigo had bigger problems regarding speed, although Dorudouni does exceed his Shikai in terms of power. But I'm still confused with Dorudouni's powers. I believe it's wind, but somehow it looks like not in this chapter.

WinterLion
November 18, 2006, 09:11 PM
Although, it's still unknown whether Ex-Espadas are lower in power or just being thrown out from Espada. But my bet, will be the latter. If they are being easured by power, logically, they should have attained the number of just above 10.

Did you mean just below 10? Because just above 10 would mean they were still an Espada... So I'm going to respond as if you meant below.

The arrancars according to Shaolon (the one that Hitsun fought first), said that the arrancars were all numbered according to the order of their birth, except for the Espada and now we know the Privado Espadas as well. So my guess is they're weaker than the Espadas (of course, otherwise they would still be an Espada), but probably not weaker than the other numbers. At the very least Doldoni doesn't appear to be weaker than the ones that attacked Histun and co.

Neru's powers are really something: The Ultimate Gorge-and-Barf Defense. :XD And she's one of the best characters we've seen in a long time, and while I'd LOVE to see her fight, I want Ichigo to stop getting his butt saved all the time. And yes, Neru looks like she would be a vasto lorde class. However, what I really want to know is why Dondochakka is so worried about her. Obviously he knows something about her powers. He said they have to "find her and stop her. Or she'll..." Which leads me to believe that her powers impact her in a negative way. Maybe swallowing such large amounts of power damages her insides. Or maybe being exposed to such high levels of reiatsu makes her turn violent. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

Urazz
November 18, 2006, 10:38 PM
Although, it's still unknown whether Ex-Espadas are lower in power or just being thrown out from Espada. But my bet, will be the latter. If they are being easured by power, logically, they should have attained the number of just above 10.

Considering Grimmjow was kicked out of the espada I don't think it is based solely on power level. Did you think a one arm Grimmjow is weaker than Yammi? I think it depends on their behavior as well in addition to their power level. I.E. Grimmjow lost several troops in an unauthorized raid on the enemy so he was booted out.

For all we could know Dorudouni could've just been too arrogant and killed off too many good soldiers. Or we could go with my personal favorite theory on why Dorudouni was kicked out of the espada and was harrassing all of the female arrancar too much. :rofl

Lohnt
November 19, 2006, 12:13 AM
There's no set power levels in Bleach... it seems as though Ichigo can achieve anything that he wills himself to. I find it impossible that non-bankai Ichigo is really as strong (or barely stronger) than Zaraki Kenpachi. That would mean that in Bankai he should be able to destroy him, and I refuse to believe that, that just cannot be.

The reason I think Ichigo's Bankai makes him stronger is his speed, not his power, I think his power is roughly the same as when he used his final attack against Zaraki. So based on that alone, he shouldn't have to resort to Bankai to defeat this villain.

It's fairly obvious Ichigo will likely be forced to learn some new attacks while in Bankai to save Inoue, there's no way he can save her even with the hollow, he will need to throw different attacks that attack in different ways at Aizen (and even Ulquiorra, who I can't see going down to even a Bankai/Hollow Ichigo without a new attack).

So to be honest, I'm sorry but I believe Kubo f*'ked up, if he had made Ichigo show up in front of Nell, no one would have said "wait a second Ichigo isn't that fast! zomg lies!" they would have said "awesome Ichigo is finally getting serious!" But again, this is my personal opinion, so please don't take it personally if you agree with Kubo's choice to have Ichigo go bankai.
I just wish Ichigo had saved Bankai for Grimjaw, because I just don't think (the way Bleach develops) he'll learn more than 1 new attack this arc and that's not enough for me.. that's repetative and absurd.. especially since he's planning on taking on Aizen.

venicia777
November 19, 2006, 02:06 AM
Considering Grimmjow was kicked out of the espada I don't think it is based solely on power level. Did you think a one arm Grimmjow is weaker than Yammi? I think it depends on their behavior as well in addition to their power level. I.E. Grimmjow lost several troops in an unauthorized raid on the enemy so he was booted out.

For all we could know Dorudouni could've just been too arrogant and killed off too many good soldiers. Or we could go with my personal favorite theory on why Dorudouni was kicked out of the espada and was harrassing all of the female arrancar too much. :rofl


i agree with you. I mean Hmm!!! ichigo has a point when he says that he wasnt going to fight an exEspada in bankai. So it seems; but does he?

It really does sound logical that if an espada is demoted and isnt in the top ranks then ichigo shouldnt expend that much energy. But is this so?

if it is, then it seems we are forgetting two espada who may prove this point wrong. Grim and The one that replaced him-Rupee. Grim was demoted when he lost his arm and someone took his place. He didnt become 10th or 7th or 9th or 8th (those who were below his rank before he got demoted). But Grim, without releasing his hollow sword, forced ichigo to use his Mask for eleven seconds and didnt yield even though he got beat pretty good .

Now, lets assume that it was the demoted Grim not Doroudoni (i hope the name is right) who was fighting Ichigo now? Would ichigo's choice have being wise?

Also, the espada whom grim replaced-Rupee- ( i am expecting inoue to have resurrected him), what if he has no rank in the top 10 like Grim did?

This gives me the sense that not all of the demoted espada are outright weaker versions of those ranked.

shirohama
November 20, 2006, 08:37 PM
nell is a vaizard? why does he have a scar right on his face, and if his mask has already fallen off, why wouldn't he just throw it away?

WinterLion
November 20, 2006, 08:42 PM
nell is a vaizard? why does he have a scar right on his face, and if his mask has already fallen off, why wouldn't he just throw it away?

Neru is an arrancar, not a visored. The scar on her face is probably from when the mask was broken... thought that's just my personal theory, and she probably hasn't thrown it away, because she can't. Even Aizen's arrancars still has a little bit of a mask left, and Neru's probably no exception. (Again, just my threory, not fact). :p

shirohama
November 20, 2006, 08:49 PM
page 5, the arrancar chasing Neji is saying Nell is a ..."we have to stop him" either he's a super strong arrancar or he could be a vaizard? maybe? possible? lol but the three of them are just weird, including nell. she seems weak and useless but yet she deflected a cero, man really wish she was a vaizard, probably not though lol