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Hystzen
March 19, 2010, 07:28 PM
we know the vizards only allies for ichigo but what if they decide to take there revenge on the SS for beign kicked out. there intresting match ups only thing are vizards is how good they fight in team


rules:

1.Yama not in fight for SS
2. Battle in SS (home turf advantage for SS)
3. Captains only for SS
4. Vizards HAICI CAN NOW BE IN FIGHT vizards need healer/kido user ( ty El samurai after thort you were rite)

El Samurai Guapo
March 19, 2010, 07:45 PM
This is a pretty one-sided match here. Even without Yamamoto, it would still be only four captain level vizards vs. 9 gotei 13 captains. Moreover, you took Hachi out, the vizard's only healer, while SS has Unohana...

Hystzen
March 19, 2010, 07:47 PM
thort taking out uno wud ad to much ad vantage :s
dont think it that one sided love kessi and shinj prob stronger than alot of caps and plus mask on top

Richo
March 19, 2010, 07:50 PM
The only captains posing a real problem for the vizards will be: Shuinsu, kenpachi and mayuri.
Also what about the Vizard VL's? Do they join the battle aswell?

my initial lineup would be: (
Soifon vs Rose - Win
Rose his Vaizard abilities are needed to beat Soifon (his hypnosis and shikai are required here)
Shuinsu vs Shinji - Win
Due to shuinsu his strenght and shikai its required for shinji to use his shikai to be able to beat it.
Ukitake vs Hiyori - Lose
Random selection for ukitake, Hiyori just isnt strong enough to beat ukitake (considering he wont get sick during the fight)
Hitsugaya vs Mashiro (for humorous reasons we can already gues) - tie (either could win).
Mashiro her abilitie to annoy any serious person could actualy mean she could win from histu
Komamura vs Love - Win
Personaly i believe that Love his physical strenght is higher then komamura. Also I presume his bankai is related to his shikai.
mayuri vs Lisa - Lose
Mayuri needs to be overpowered before he can use bankai however Lisa might not be strong enough to do so.
Byakuya vs Kensei - Tie (either could win)
nothing special to say, we know both their powers. However i would say this win is for Kensei only due to his hollow powers.
Kenpachi vs X

Considering the line ups and the general strenght of the vaizards vs SS i would say SS would actualy lose against the vaizards, since all the vaizards know how SS fights and also knows pretty much all they need to know about the abilities of the current captains.
I presumed the Vaizards would try to fight SS before the winter war, before they could see any of the powers from certain captains like mayuri, Byakuya and komumaru


edit:
Also put into the rules that Unohana won't be competing.

Hystzen
March 19, 2010, 07:53 PM
Vizards need the VL to keep the numbers more fair.. i could see:
shinji vs byakura - shinji shikai wud affect byakuras speed
Lisa vs Hitsu-close this tie
kensei vs Kom-kensei win i think not just brute force

kkck
March 19, 2010, 07:54 PM
I have to lean towards SS. I think the former VC could fight at the captain level with shikai and mask but I don't think they would reach the level of a captain with bankai. SS wins because they basically outnumber the vizards.

Hystzen
March 19, 2010, 08:01 PM
SS has some captains who have personality probs that could let them down:

hitsu has major anger problems which leaves holes in his defence
zaraki only fights strongest and a loner wont work with other caps
Mayuri wud get bored if a 'inferior' person fights and could lose by not paying attention ( it the reason uryu won IMO)
Ukitake is a wild card could have his TB flare up
Shunsui to laid back unless he gets serious

El Samurai Guapo
March 19, 2010, 11:35 PM
The only thing I gotta wonder is how many people Shinji can put in his inverted world at once. If he can use his shikai on all of the captains from SS simultaneously, then I would say that it's possible the vizards could win this, despite SS having more captains.

I think this would be more interesting if it were the 4 vizard captains vs. top 4 current gotei 13 captains (not including Yamamoto). Like...for instance:

Shinji vs. Shunsui
Rose vs. Kenpachi
Love vs. Byakuya
Kensei vs. Jushirou

In all 4 cases I think the vizards would win. I also think Shinji is the 3rd strongest character in Bleach.

vizardichigo
March 20, 2010, 01:14 AM
The vizards have 4, lets say 5 captain level fighters...SS has 9 w/o yama...Even though Kensei and Shinji could give any captain a run for their money, its just too great of a numbers game for the vizards to win..In a 9 vs 5 situation the 5 have to be excessively stronger, and they are not..

kkck
March 20, 2010, 01:38 AM
As much as I do think the former captains could go toe to toe with the older captains thanks to their mask I just don't see them winning against that many opponents. Seriously, just one captain bankai is probably enough to hold back mashiro, hiyori and liza at this point. Unless the former VCs have bankai I don't see them being that useful. I would think that just byakuya releasing shikai would be enough to deal with the former VCs lol. Why isn't hachi allowed here though? I guess he isn't much of a fighter anyways but it'd be interesting if he can actually seal captains in a barrier.

Richo
March 20, 2010, 05:36 AM
The vizards have 4, lets say 5 captain level fighters...SS has 9 w/o yama...Even though Kensei and Shinji could give any captain a run for their money, its just too great of a numbers game for the vizards to win..In a 9 vs 5 situation the 5 have to be excessively stronger, and they are not..

SS consist of 13 captains normaly subract 3 vacant seats, subtract yama and unohana. Unohana doesnt fight unless she is forced to. She is the Captain of the medical squad after all.

Gran Maestro
March 20, 2010, 05:57 AM
I think SS captains (except 4 senior captains) vs Vizards (except Hachigen) would be a more interesting match-up.

Oathencrantz
March 20, 2010, 07:10 AM
SS has some captains who have personality probs that could let them down:

hitsu has major anger problems which leaves holes in his defence
zaraki only fights strongest and a loner wont work with other caps
Mayuri wud get bored if a 'inferior' person fights and could lose by not paying attention ( it the reason uryu won IMO)
Ukitake is a wild card could have his TB flare up
Shunsui to laid back unless he gets serious

Well he's currently fighting with Byakuya to defeat Yammi.

Hystzen
March 20, 2010, 08:00 AM
Well he's currently fighting with Byakuya to defeat Yammi.

he is not fighting perfectly together he would rather fight yammi then byakuya he has threatened byakuya numerous times when yammi is in front of them.

the prob with this match up is even tho i posted it becoz we not sure
what the vizards full powers are. the SS we seen nearly all there bankai and what they capable to do in a fight and how they fight. doesnt help kubo made them a fail to make aizen more powerfull :(

El Samurai Guapo
March 20, 2010, 10:00 AM
I would think that just byakuya releasing shikai would be enough to deal with the former VCs lol.

Come on now, that's obviously an exaggeration. Byakuya's shikai sucks so bad that shikai Ichigo can easily defeat it, and shikai Ichigo can't even defeat a privaron espada. Lisa, on the other hand was going toe-to-toe with Harribel by herself (while SEALED) for a while when Toushirou and Hyori were arguing.

Hystzen
March 20, 2010, 10:59 AM
most of the vizards would either take byakuyas shikai or dodge it. the main threat wud be shunsui and ukitake combo im guessing how dangerous they would be if work together.
would love to see a love v zaraki but brute strength brawl

Zatono
March 20, 2010, 11:07 AM
Gotei takes this, easily. The vaizards don't have many good people in comparison to the better captains. The Vaizard VC's can probably be manhandled by Koma, Hitsu, and Soifon. Love, Rose, Kensei, and Shinji then get wrecked by Byakuya, Kenpachi, Shunsui, Ukitake, and Mayuri. Mayuri can easily find an opening on them, and use his shikai effect to paralyze the vaizards, and Kenpachi can just take off his eyepatch and two-hand anyone who comes within a 10 foot radius of him.

Hystzen
March 20, 2010, 11:10 AM
zaraki taking off eyepatch and using kendo wud pro own nearly every1 in bleach universe and in the DBZ universe :amuse

kkck
March 20, 2010, 11:21 AM
Come on now, that's obviously an exaggeration. Byakuya's shikai sucks so bad that shikai Ichigo can easily defeat it, and shikai Ichigo can't even defeat a privaron espada. Lisa, on the other hand was going toe-to-toe with Harribel by herself (while SEALED) for a while when Toushirou and Hyori were arguing.

Well, there was a time where shikai ichigo could go toe to toe with a captain yet that certainly isn't the case anymore. I don't think byakuya's shikai sucks that bad, we simply saw it faced against ichigo's shikai when zangetsu was vaguely important -ichigo's shikai also didn't use to suck-. My impression of byakuya's shikai was that it was something which could easily approach the former VCs and get to their masks, in the past it seemed like something which was rather hard to see.

vizardichigo
March 20, 2010, 01:27 PM
SS consist of 13 captains normaly subract 3 vacant seats, subtract yama and unohana. Unohana doesnt fight unless she is forced to. She is the Captain of the medical squad after all.

In the opening message it said minus Yama, not minus Unohana...So Unohana would be in the battle. 9 vs 5....The 5 guys need to be a good bit stronger in order to compete with that many opponents and while they were strong are they a good bit stronger than the 9??? No they arent...

hakuthehedgehog
March 20, 2010, 01:28 PM
Byakuya doesn't have 0 defense when using his shikai, he can use Kido do defend himself.
Seriously, his shikai can be used to sneak attack and do nice damage, if it is used in conjuction with an ally.
Seriously, SS can just own the vizards my using Mayuri's bankai and taking the antidote.

Raizen
March 20, 2010, 02:09 PM
First off SS totally owns the Vizards. The vizards have not shown anythign even remotely skillful or impressive other than shinji.

Shunsui- He is more than capable of taking out ANY of teh vizards. His shikai is deadly, not to mention he is calculating and skilled. He would literally beat any vizards IMO

Unohana- same as shunsui. She is considered to be a powerhouse. I see her dominating any vizard as well

Ukitake- If healthy, the same as above. I don't see ANY of the vizards as strong as the senior captains. Shinji may be the only one close to their strength

Byakuya- Byakuya can take on any vizards here. His bankai is crazy powerful and his skills in kido and shuunpo gives him an edge over just about any of the vizards. Rose's whip won't be hitting him, Love is just a big brutte that can be dodge with shuunpo, and kensei has not done anything that shows he can beat them

Kenpachi- This guy is a tank. he took on tousen in a similar fashion as the vizards and he tanked the hit. The vizards on teh other hand felll like flies. He can beat any vizard IMO

Soifon- she can wipe out ALL the VC vizards easily. I don't see why people underestimate her. Barragan was the perfect match up for her. But against any otehr opponent, they'd be screwed. She can beat any captain vizard as well

Mayuri- science is considered to be a HUGE factor in Bleach. Being a genius as he is, he could probably create a device that kills all the vizards lol :amuse

Hitsugaya- he just toyed wtih the 3rd espada. An espada stronger than the one that trashed ichigo. He would beat any VC vizards, and can possibly beat any vizard captain too. He is tricky and smart as well as control the strongest ice based zanpaktou.

Komamura- he doesn't need to fight. He just sits and watch how the real captains fight.

Random101
March 22, 2010, 01:19 PM
Yeah, I've been thoroughly unimpressed by the Vizards thus far. Granted, only one of them has shown their Bankai, which we've seen diddly of on this end, but given only four of them are assured to have it and of only one of which has been revealed, and there are three unrevealed Bankai's on the other side too (Ignoring Yamamoto), SS has the advantage if it were pure one on one, no question.

Granted however, if teamwork were involved and they play it smart with a Shikai like Shinji's and Hachi's capabilities, then likely this is far closer than I initially would think, although given the Illusion Aizen fight the captains aren't too shabby with teamwork either when given incentive. Of course given that was a bloody illusion... >>

One on one though, Hitsugaya could probably solo Lisa and Hiyori, assuming I'm guessing the nature of his bankai right, Komamura 'might' be able to take Kensei (Assuming it's a brute force type of deal with wind, in which case the crap is that going to do against something that heavy? Otherwise Byakuya or Hitsugaya might make for an interesting matchup), Love vs. Kenpachi or Komamura would also make for a brute force fight the SS side would likely win, Rose vs. Ukitake 'might' work very well to his advantage if most of his attacks are like that, and Shinji vs. Kyoraku or Unohana, while undoubtedly tricky given he's the only one of them shown to be worth anything, might work to their favor. Well that or Mayuri Godmods again to compensate for his reversal trick.

Oh wait that leaves Hachi and Mashiro. Mashiro likely get's pwned by any of them frankly, though admittedly her poor performance was because her fifteen hour limit was retconned to fifteen hours while in a coma miles away from any sort of spiritual pressure or anything related to combat combat given she was fight for five minutes tops no where near anything with THAT much spiritual presence, and was sitting around the rest of the time. And no Wonderwiess negation to save that either, Kensei predicted it would happen with no idea of his abilities. Hachi will be tricky though, I'll give it that. Soifon though with speed and two stabs would probably easily take it before he gets off a kido, but unfortunately Soifon suffers from PIS that keeps her from doing this right off the bat for some reason.

Hystzen
March 23, 2010, 01:54 PM
the reason the vizards have been thort of as failures is down to kubos writing if you think about it logicaly they should be strong age and mask powers

Eddy01741
March 23, 2010, 09:55 PM
But they are failed arrancar according to Aizen so their masks don't give them as much power as say... the resurreccion of Aizen's espada arrancar, or even potentially Ichigo if he goes on to learn more hollow abilities than just a mask (like Ichigonator form...).

Also, age, while important, is not the deciding factor. Hitsugaya joined after Hisagi, Momo, Renji, Kira, and Matsumoto yet he is most definitely stronger than all of them.

But yeah, false hype by Kubo. I mean, I expected them to at least hold their masks for a couple hours (as mashiro held hers for 15 hours), they all rag on Ichigo for his 11 seconds, but they are only at 3 minutes.... (well, love and rose are)

El Samurai Guapo
March 23, 2010, 10:06 PM
But they are failed arrancar according to Aizen so their masks don't give them as much power as say... the resurreccion of Aizen's espada arrancar, or even potentially Ichigo if he goes on to learn more hollow abilities than just a mask (like Ichigonator form...).

Also, age, while important, is not the deciding factor. Hitsugaya joined after Hisagi, Momo, Renji, Kira, and Matsumoto yet he is most definitely stronger than all of them.

But yeah, false hype by Kubo. I mean, I expected them to at least hold their masks for a couple hours (as mashiro held hers for 15 hours), they all rag on Ichigo for his 11 seconds, but they are only at 3 minutes.... (well, love and rose are)

I think their masks do give them pretty big power boosts regardless. Look at Mashiro, while she had hers on, she was knocking WW all over fake karakura town. Then as soon as the mask came off, she gets one-shotted by WW. You can even see the look on her face as the mask is coming off, it's an "oh shit" look. As far as the duration of them being able to keep the mask on goes, I don't think it's that big of an issue because they can just refresh the limit by taking it off and reapplying it. That's why Kensei told Mashiro to do (to reapply her mask) but she obviously did not heed his warning.

Raizen
March 23, 2010, 10:22 PM
I think their masks do give them pretty big power boosts regardless. Look at Mashiro, while she had hers on, she was knocking WW all over fake karakura town. Then as soon as the mask came off, she gets one-shotted by WW. You can even see the look on her face as the mask is coming off, it's an "oh shit" look. As far as the duration of them being able to keep the mask on goes, I don't think it's that big of an issue because they can just refresh the limit by taking it off and reapplying it. That's why Kensei told Mashiro to do (to reapply her mask) but she obviously did not heed his warning.
I don't think the duration of the mask is easily restored by taking it off then reapllying. I think of it more like an hourglass. Whe using it, the sand diminish. But whe u take it off, the sand slowly gets restored. So there is a set amount of time b4 the mask is fully restored to its orignal time state

Yes, the mask does provide a power boost. But i don't think it is that great. Sure mashiro was kicking WW but it didn't even hurt or flinch him.

kkck
March 23, 2010, 10:28 PM
I think their masks do give them pretty big power boosts regardless. Look at Mashiro, while she had hers on, she was knocking WW all over fake karakura town. Then as soon as the mask came off, she gets one-shotted by WW. You can even see the look on her face as the mask is coming off, it's an "oh shit" look. As far as the duration of them being able to keep the mask on goes, I don't think it's that big of an issue because they can just refresh the limit by taking it off and reapplying it. That's why Kensei told Mashiro to do (to reapply her mask) but she obviously did not heed his warning.

I also think the boost was significant even if they were failures as hybrids. Thing is the boost they received, while significant, simply was dwarfed by the boost arrancar influenced by the orb got. Also, the mask does not last THAT little. While it would not be plausible for them to fight at full power for long periods of time they can still take it off, rest it a few moments and use it as efficiently as possible so as to use it for as long as they need.
[hr]

Yes, the masks give a noticeable increase in power, but likely it's not as much as Tousen's mask (Tousen with mask, unreleased, no resurreccion, was able to go on against Koma's bankai) since they are "failed" arrancar.
I would also think the boost tousen got was quite larger than the one the vizards got from mask. Not just in power but also in time limit. If there was a time limit for his mask then he would not be capable of staying for long periods of time in resurreccion. If the boost tousen got from mask was as large as the one the espada got from orb hybridization then tousen must have truly been a beast. Too bad not being blind and overconfidence screwed him over (how else do you kill something that overpowered though).

Kaiten
March 26, 2010, 02:45 PM
The Vizard are still somewhat unknown; at least four have bankai, only one has been shown. Shinji could certainly take out some of the weaker captain. I'm not sure Hitsugaya or Soi Fon could handle him one on one. Love and Rose may be over hyped IMO. They may emerge as powers when there fully unleashed, until then beasts like Kenpachi or Byakuya could one shot them. Kensei might put up a decent fight. Virtually every SS VC is over rated, except for Kira and Hisagi. Hiyori and Mashiro are stronger than any of the other VC. None of the Vizard VC did especially well in the fake Karakura arc but SS VC have been getting pwned since the Soul Society arc.

Random101
March 26, 2010, 07:43 PM
Save Omaeda of course.

Comparing the vizards to current VC's serves little purpose frankly, captain level individuals should, in essence, be able to instapwn Vice Captains with minimal effort, a feat which needless to say Ichigo, Hitsugaya, and Soifon (Okay, those weren't vices, but still) all fit easily and by extension the rest should too. The problem is that massive gap in-between which likely they belong in. Not only does this matchup have the Vizards outnumbered (9-8 as only Yamamoto is exempted), but their heaviest hitters are likely more or less matched in theory by the heavy hitters of the captains remaining.

Yans86
March 29, 2010, 01:40 PM
If Sakanade is activated against the gotei 13 I would like to see them counter all of them while trying to figure out what is happening....most of them would die too fast to understand what is happening...
Starting frmo Hitsu and Byakuya thought(the first one for obvious reason,the second one for his performance against Ichigo in SS)...

We should also not forget that they were all Captain/VC level when most of the captains were babies seen how people like to use this issue,so they have likely maxed out their ability while the others are still on their way to growth...

El Samurai Guapo
March 29, 2010, 01:59 PM
If Sakanade is activated against the gotei 13 I would like to see them counter all of them while trying to figure out what is happening....most of them would die too fast to understand what is happening...
Starting frmo Hitsu and Byakuya thought(the first one for obvious reason,the second one for his performance against Ichigo in SS)...

We should also not forget that they were all Captain/VC level when most of the captains were babies seen how people like to use this issue,so they have likely maxed out their ability while the others are still on their way to growth...

Yep, especially since we saw how Shinji can target who he wasnts to use Sakanade against, as was seen during the incident with Hinamori and Toushirou. Shinji could theoretically put all of the gotei captains in the inverted world, while his vizard comrades would simply be fighting normally, thus giving SS a severe handicap.

kkck
March 29, 2010, 03:34 PM
It'd be interesting if sakenade could put all the gotei 13 captains under the illusion while not doing anything to the vizards. That'd be a no less than absolutely sick advantage. If the captains are caught while in bankai in such an ability results could be devastating. Komamura could easily kill one or two captains if his bankai goes in the opposite direction where he wants to go. Byakuya's would be severely unpredictable. Shunsui could aim his games to a wrong direction and miss a turn. Also, most vizards seem to have an array of long range abilities. Either cero or long range shikais could be excellent tools to catch the captains of guard if they are already under the influence of sakenade.

Raizen
April 06, 2010, 12:41 PM
I don't think you can be selective with sakanade. The reason i say this is b/c hitsu attacked aizen from the back but he saw from the front. SO my thought was that hitsu was also affected by sakanade but he knew about it. I may be wrong

But even if sakanade does affect the captains, they are still more than capable of countering:
Shunsui's shikai affects ALL those within its SP. That is a huge area.
Uki can reflect attacks back at teh vizards
Byakuya's bankai can attack and defend at the same time so the vizards won't be able to get to him
Hitsu can freeze the whole damn place or use those flower to freeze a couple of vizards or the ice pillars to trap them. Also he can use his ice wings to protect himself or the ice clone :amuse.
Koma- he can use his big guy to protect and defend
Soifon can use that clone trick and she is quick enough to dodge even with her sense out of whack
Mayuri can poison everyone lol
Unohana, i doubt any of the vizards can beat her or any of teh seniors tbh
Zaraki- he can brush off their attacks easily. Who cares about teh sense. he will catch whoever tried to attack him and cut them down

Truth is, the captains of SS has shown much greater endurance than any of the vizards. Their skills are more impressive and they have a much better track record (other than koma).
I could see ken owning any of the vizards. he may have some trouble with shinji
Same goes for bakuya and literally all the other captains.

En Yang Ji
April 16, 2010, 02:36 AM
This battle would be a lot more interesting if it was Vizards + Urahara's crew vs SS. Isshin, Urahara, Yoruichi, and Tessai would even things up.

El Samurai Guapo
April 16, 2010, 03:25 AM
This battle would be a lot more interesting if it was Vizards + Urahara's crew vs SS. Isshin, Urahara, Yoruichi, and Tessai would even things up.

You're right, it would be more even if Kisuke's group was included. I mean, why not? Kisuke and Yoruichi are also former-captains from the vizard's time, and so they're technically in the same group. I don't know Isshin can be considered part of Kisuke's crew though, and I think it would be overkill to have him on the their team anyway. Just adding Kisuke, Yoruichi, and Tessai should be sufficient.

Hystzen
April 16, 2010, 10:14 AM
true lets add them into the bout ok !!!!

il start a new thread as this would be different now how do i delete this one ?

You can't :tem
I can close this thread and redirect to SS Outcasts vs SS (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59955)