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kangclaw
April 06, 2010, 02:32 PM
How many times were Luffy or his crew defeated in the manga and why?
Would like some analysis on Luffy's fights and members of his crew, from the manga storyline.

I think one of the first time Luffy or his crew were defeated at Logue Town by Smoker?
I am not sure of the order.

Comment:

Firstly Smoker already defeated Luffy at Logue Town, then Luffy and his entire crew got defeated by Aokiji, then Kuma, and by Kizaru at Shabondy and then by Magellan in Impel Down. I mean at the end of that chapter of Shabondy there was a panel stating that the strawhat crew was defeated or destroyed, depending on the translation you read. After this latest war Strawhat has Akainu, all of the Admirals and the whole of the marines after him, not forgetting that the Tenryuubito has a grudge against him also.
There are many pirate crews and marines strong enough to destroy the Strawhat crew.
Also in terms of Ultimate Rival I don't think its Smoker; its obvious if there is an ultimate enemy, it will likely be BB. BB is like an opposite and twin of Luffy in some ways. Where as Smoker is superior to Luffy in every way, he is smarter, physically better, more experienced, and has a superior DF ability.

bittman
April 06, 2010, 06:37 PM
Well if you're lumping "defeats" such as Smoker (who only beat 2 Strawhats) in there, the list goes on a lot:

Mihawk
Smoker
Crocodile
Bellamy
Waipa
Enel
Aokoji
CP9
Moria
Zombie Oars
Kuma
Kizaru + Sentomaru + Pacifista
Kuma
(Magellan?) (Luffy was the only Strawhat here)

If I take this more literally, there has actually only been one "total" defeat of ALL of the Strawhat's: Kuma at Shabondy. Every other time the villain has only taken a couple, or has been stopped halfway through their destruction. Kuma is the only antagonist who has single handedly, and quite easily, defeated all the Strawhats (even though it's debatable whether "sending them away" is defeating, none of the were able to defend against it, so I believe so).

Smoker was the second long term antagonist Oda set up after Mihawk, but the first who specifically targetted Luffy. But his "victory" never occured thanks to Dragon, plus he only fought Sanji and Luffy.

kangclaw
April 07, 2010, 02:47 AM
wow ...I just realised that is a lot of defeats. They have a lot of enemies.
What about defeats where they Strawhat crew or individuals have never won a battle at the end?

Mihawk
Smoker
Aokiji
Kuma--recent
Kizaru + Sentomaru + Pacifista --recent
Magellan --- recent
Blackbeard --- recent
Some of the Vice Admirals in the recent chapters
Akainu+Kizaru+Aokiji ---recent
Sengoku ---recent

BetaRuler
April 07, 2010, 10:08 AM
Luffy's defeat against Magellans is one of my favs that I would never like to see redeemed, just to leave the sense of "but what ifs" in our minds! >=3

Smoker I'd like to see Luffy find a way to fight him someday, he'll prolly be a stepping stone compared to the Admirals if they ever do bite Luffys fist.

kangclaw
April 07, 2010, 12:58 PM
Luffy's fight Magellan was eye-opening for me. Magellan is really powerful and his devil fruit is really deadly. He was able to take some of luffy's Jet techniques? But Luffy was already weak from poisoning. Since SA there has been a continuous defeats one after the other.
I am curious, how did Luffy think that he was going to defeat someone of Aokiji's level with his Gear 2 and 3? Was he so naive? And him and his crew had to be shown the hard way, that, they and Luffy are naive; that they need to level up.

It's difficult to guess but Luffy can defeat Smoker, if Luffy is fast enough to hit him. They haven't had a proper fight yet, and in the current war Luffy wasn't fresh and recovered enough to fight Smoker properly; he just escaped from Impel Down. Smoker was also using that stick that was made of Seastone to attack Luffy.

You are probably right that Smoker is a stepping stone to an Admiral.
Any person strong and fast enough can be defeated by physical attacks.
This may seem of topic:-
One of the ways a Logia users can be defeated is if you can punch them or with any other attack fast enough before they turn their bodies into the particular elements. They reason they are difficult is because they have very fast response time for their transformation. Luffy already defeated two Logia users.
Oda explained that Logia user turn their bodies into elements, when he was describing how Ace was using his fire power; Logia users are not 24hr in elemental form. They are different to Luffy, where he is constantly Rubber; he doesn't turn his body into rubber, he is already rubber.

In one piece there are many forms of power, but nearly in all cases the core of most powers are the willpower, spirit, courage, mental strength etc.. I am not talking about Haki, Haki is something else.
An example is Zoro, he is strong because, on top of his talents he has the will power, the spirit, courage, ambition to train and acquire his goals. He doesn't use Haki, but did you see some of those techniques (like the Asura, or Dragon) he come out with and his spirit (not Haki) or bloodlust is demonic; is definitely supernatural and is given form. In one one piece the human spirit, and its many facets and qualities are given power and form.
That's why even a person without DF abilities can defeat another with it.

BetaRuler
April 09, 2010, 02:46 AM
Quite right Kangclaw, about the will spirit and courage points, and I'm sure Oda deliberately emphasized it especially in the Don Krief arc, if you read closely what chef Zeff says to Sanji when their watching Luffy fight Don Krief.

I would prefer it if characters like Mihawk and Shanks never had fruits as well.
Plus most of the skypeia characters never had fruits and some of them were quite strong, and the CP9 seemed strong enough to me without needing those DF's, Silvers Rayleigh seems strong enough without fruit.

I think Logia users are often made Luffy's enemies for a reason too, like Oda is making some deliberate point about the ultimate forces of nature being bested by human will or something like that! You never know!

DLord.Van.Buuren
April 09, 2010, 08:18 AM
their absolute defeat was in SA but it wasnt fair tho i mean oda stated that was utter defeat .

Uriel
April 09, 2010, 09:56 AM
There is MANY people in the OP world that overcome Luffy and the crew...But He has so much lucky He escaped every time. Aokiji+Kizaru attack and living after that is a proof of it.

SH's are powerful, yes, but I think their strongest point is that they have some kind of Angel (ahemODAahem) and a strong will to keep living. It's why I love them so much, it's not the typical overpowered guy kicking some asses. It's a goofy guy who protects his friends while looking to realize his dreams and getting beaten a lot of times before it.

kkck
April 09, 2010, 10:03 AM
I think the only fights where the strawhats were defeated in the true sense of the word was against aokiji and kizaru. Unlike other fights where they were at the disadvantage, in those two fights the strawhats were almost killed and lacked so much as a shred of a chance of surviving had there not been other factors involved. At least in other fights they could stand back and fight back, hence they were only partial and temporal defeats.

kangclaw
April 17, 2010, 01:18 PM
I think the only fights where the strawhats were defeated in the true sense of the word was against aokiji and kizaru. Unlike other fights where they were at the disadvantage, in those two fights the strawhats were almost killed and lacked so much as a shred of a chance of surviving had there not been other factors involved. At least in other fights they could stand back and fight back, hence they were only partial and temporal defeats.

You took the word out of my mouth. I have to admit when they met Kizaru or Aokiji, they were definitely totally had no chance. They were just so powerful. Luffy seemed the type of person that would notice the difference in power; so, how could Luffy think he could protect his nakama withh just his Gear 2 and 3?

And now we can also include that Akainu into the list of outrageously strong people that will be after him.

shinsengumi
April 17, 2010, 05:23 PM
all these defeats just to scream out even more ... "learn to use haki already" which is the strongest out there >_> the answer was too obvious even after 2 logia fights but oda had to make luffy lose against every1 of them to polish his point even more...

Ratatosk
June 12, 2010, 01:00 PM
Luffy's never been really bothered by defeats unless they affect his friends or objectives (e.g. Smoker he happily runs away from on a regular basis because he knows he can't win yet). Zoro's the one who gets really upset about not winning. Even Saobody was a defeat for Zoro more than anyone, because his moment of awesome on Thriller Bark had no effect at all.

Enies Lobby should have been a defeat, when Luffy won the fight but couldn't move, even with maximum amounts of Luffy-willpower.. (which was unexpected even at a point when I thought nothing would surprise me about One Piece anymore) so they were basically screwed until Merry showed up.

The defeats got worse as the story went on; Not saving Ace probably counts as the worst for Luffy yet, especially as he gave up 10 years (at least) of his life in the process.


when they met Kizaru or Aokiji, they were definitely totally had no chance. They were just so powerful. Luffy seemed the type of person that would notice the difference in power.

He did, that's why he came the closest to panicking that we'd seen at that point and told everyone to run away.. but now the flashback of Garp talking about how Roger would never back down from an enemy, because running away puts all your friends/allies at risk, has made it pretty clear that was where he went wrong.
And at least 2 significant people ranting that you need power before you can try and change things or save people, Luffy getting the point and learning to control Haki can't be far off.

THM Nindo
June 14, 2010, 10:45 AM
The biggest and greatest defeat was against Kuma.
The emotion was so great...

Luffy saw everyone that he loved being "killed" (or at least that's what he thought) right in front of his eyes, and he was powerless...

That was a crazy moment right there...
The best of the whole manga, IMO.