Kabuto vs Nagato and The Six Paths of Pain

[Hauradrims3]

Kabuto vs Pain... Kabuto has made all the preparation just like when he faced Madara and is ready to summon Itachi, Deidara, Kakuzu, Sasori, and Nagato Jiraiya. Since there are still a lot of unknowns I made 2 scenarios. 1 in which our best assumptions about Kabuto are true, the other in which we doubt everything.

Scenario1:
- Kabuto has mastered all of Oros abilities + his own abilities.
- Instead of a nagato summon he gets a jiraiya summon so it can make more sense.
- The edo tenseis have all of the originals abilities and are 100% strength. They cannot die no mather what, unless the soul is sealed.
- Nagato, like Kabuto, must summon his bodies first.
- they start off 500meters apart where the sannins faught.
- Nagato cannot be killed until all other bodies are dead

Scenario2:
- Kabuto has only mastered the techniques we have seen him use from oros repertoire.
- He loses the nagato summon and does not get a new one.
- The edo tenseis have all of the originals abilities and are 70% strength. They can regenerate all damage unless they get obliterated/soul sealed.
- Nagato has his bodies next to him. While Kabuto must still summon them first.
- they start off on each head at the valley of the end.
- Nagato is as weak as he looks and killing him means all other bodies are motionless.

Who wins? I am really intrigued to see what the hardcore pain fans think about this new threat to the god of shinobi position. Imo, kabuto wins both scenarios.

[Prince Sasuke]

Kabuto wins both secnarios. Pain has one Kage level body,and Kabuto has five. Its not even that close IMO.

[e-dog]

I think I'd have to agree with Prince Sasuke (There's a first time for everything, right? :p).
There is no doubt in my mind that Kabutomaru & co. will win the first scenario. For me that's a given. J-man, Dei, Saso, Ita and Kaku are all Kage or Kage+ nins who can regenerate... Not only that but they can't be destroyed without taking their souls which will be very very hard to do (Especially in the case of Ita and J-man who are both pretty much the definition of FAST).
Then we also have Kabutomaru who probably has a huge chakra supply and extraordinary regeneration capabilities since he also has the wite snake (or am I wrong here?).
Anyhow, The first scenario goes to Kabutomaru & Co. IMO 100% No doubt in my mind.

Second scenario won't be much different... Maybe if CT gets performed successfully but I have my doubts.... I dont think team Kabutomaru will be Idling/fappig/ZzzZZz'ing while Deva launches it.
Nagato has only 1-2 Kage+ lvl shinobi with the rest of them being Jounin level while Kabutomaru's team consists of Kage+ only. Even at 70%, I think they'll win 70% of the time. Those former Akatsuki members are very very versatile (They could handle losses but still be very effective) while Nagato's team needs each other to perform well.
And with Nagato (AKA lil' roller :amuse) being in his lil wheelchair next to his 6 paths on the battlefield, he can easily be KO'd by an instant attack (Like Amaterasu? Or just Deidara going nuclear). The 6 realms will also have to sacrifice a lot of offense just to protect Nagato.
They'll be killed off guerrilla warfare-style IMO.


IT--

[Phoenix946]

Wow, to put Kabuto against Pain one on one, only Edo Tensei could be hax enough for this to be interesting. I guess that qualifies me as a "hardcore Pain fan".

Anyhoo, I had a big post written only to realize Pain's least losing option in both scenarios is Chibaku Tensei.

In scenario 1 that doesn't kill anyone but possibly Kabuto so he'd have to somehow get the immortals out one by one, but since I can't think of any way to do that Nagato will just run dry at some point and get beaten.

In scenario 2 it would kill the zombies, but Nagato would get sucked in himself as well, so that would be a win for Kabuto since he will simply outlast Nagato in the CT with Oro's resilience and his own regeneration.

If Nagato won't use CT, in scenario 1 he's up against an absolutely overwhelming team and will probably be beaten in seconds. In scenario 2 he may have a bit better chance but since he's on the battlefield himself, he'd probably get killed since it's 5 independent guys against 1 unmovable guy controlling 6 bodies.

Perhaps summoning the Gedo Mazou and using that soul sucking dragon might kill some of the zombies by surprise, but once the surprise is over they won't be caught and just get Nagato from behind.

Nagato would need some ability with a bigger hax-factor than Edo Tensei connected to his "mastery of life and death" to pull this off. Like being able to immediately take the souls from the bodies, or cancelling the summons like Sandaime did.
In fact, now that I think about it, it's pretty reasonable he can stop those summons, so then it just all depends on how many bodies Kabuto manages to summon before Nagato stops the rest.

[e-dog]

Correct me if I'm wrong but couldnt something as simple as Itachi or Jiraiya putting Nagato in a genjutsu end the battle? :S
I mean that was the biggest argument in the Jiraiya&Itachi VS the 6 pain realms/bodies/paths-thread...
In that thread Itachi couldn't Genjutsu Nagato since he (The real Pain/Nagato) was not present at the battle...
Im getting a feeling that someone is gonna post that Genjutsu won't work against the Rinnegan for some odd reason... Dont ask why lol :eyeroll
Edit: I forgot... What the hell is a blind Itachi supposed to do???:blink
Or does his "new body" have eyes?


IT--

[Reenie]

Assuming equal seal speed:
First Move Chibaku Tensei (cast by Nagato himself) vs First Move Edo Tensei by Kabuto and it's game over for Kabuto. Itachi (by summoning partly materialized Susanoo the instant he emerges from the coffin) and perhaps Deidara (flying bird) and Jiraiya might be able to survive/elude Chibaku Tensei, but neither Kabuto nor Orochimaru has anything we've seen that would enable them to escape that jutsu. And I don't think either's regenerative powers could enable them to survive being crushed by tons of compact debris in 360 degrees. Nagato might lose to the combined might of all the Edo Tensei summons, but the battle you set up is Kabuto vs Nagato, and once Nagato has defeated Kabuto, no need for him to stick around to babysit the zombie summons. Plus, as we've seen with Orochimaru's version of Edo Tensei, the zombies have very poor taijutsu skills compared to their original living bodies - Shodaime and Nidaime were unable to dodge Sandaime's explosive seals, and Sandaime (keep in mind this is a 60 year old geezer hardly at the peak of his taijutsu skills) even caught the zombies with his Kage Bunshins when he was blinded by Shodaime's genjutsu... So Nagato could conceivably easily insert some of his poles into the Edo Tensei summons and take them over; Edo Tensei would then work in favor of Nagato rather than Kabuto. Remember Kakashi's words: Think before using a jutsu.

I do think that Itachi in undead form is just too unfair though once he's got Susanoo out... Since Susanoo's life-draining penalty wouldn't even affect him in that state, he can just keep spamming Susanoo the entire fight, but Pain doesn't have to take out undead Itachi to beat Kabuto.

The other Edo Tensei forms to be honest just aren't that strong without a high taijutsu base though...

One last point: Nagato could also summon Gedo Mazo, the perfect counter to Edo Tensei. The closer the Edo tensei summons or Kabuto get to Nagato, the more exponentially likely they are to get their souls sucked out. So taijutsu's out. Long distance ninjutsu or Amaterasu? Not a chance with Fat Pain around. Genjutsu? Sure, Itachi can genjutsu Nagato, but that won't kill him, and Gedo Mazo seems to be like Susanoo in that it moves independently of its master's will. The only thing that could arguably defend against Gedo Mazo would be Susanoo. They are both incorporeal summons so that would be an interesting matchup.

[e-dog]

Assuming equal seal speed:
First Move Chibaku Tensei vs First Move Edo Tensei and it's game over for Kabuto.
Itachi (Susanoo) and perhaps Deidara (flying bird) and Jiraiya might be able to survive Chibaku Tensei, but neither Kabuto nor Orochimaru has anything we've seen that would enable them to escape that jutsu. And I don't think either's regenerative powers could enable them to survive being crushed by tons of compact debris in 360 degrees. Nagato and his Six Paths would lose to the combined might of all the Edo Tensei summons, but the battle you set up is Kabuto vs Pain, and once Nagato has defeated Kabuto, no need for him to stick around to babysit the zombie summons. Plus, as we've seen with Orochimaru's version of Edo Tensei, the zombies have very poor taijutsu skills compared to their original living bodies - Shodaime and Nidaime were unable to dodge Sandaime's explosive seals, and Sandaime (keep in mind this is a 60 year old geezer hardly at the peak of his taijutsu skills) even caught the zombies with his Kage Bunshins when he was blinded by Shodaime's genjutsu... So once Nagato destroys Kabuto, his Six Paths of Pain can just retreat, or he himself can just summon the bodies back to wherever Nagato himself is hiding.

I do think that Itachi in undead form is just too unfair though... Since Susanoo's life-draining penalty wouldn't even affect him in that state, he can just keep spamming Susanoo the entire fight, but Pain doesn't have to take out undead Itachi to beat Kabuto.

Just a quick question.
Do you really see Pain launching CT right off the bet? If so, Team Kabutomary will be insta-r4p3d...

IT--

[Reenie]

Just a quick question.
Do you really see Pain launching CT right off the bet? If so, Team Kabutomary will be insta-r4p3d...

IT--

Yeah you're right, Pain wouldn't really do that. Well with the usual pace of battles in the manga, Kabuto would take the win because each side has to be allowed to use all its trump cards. So Edo Tensei with Itachi's Susanoo out and ready, undead Jiraiya in sage mode if the toads will follow him lol..., and similarly Nagato with his 6 paths ready for combat. I added some stuff about Gedo Mazo and chakra-controlling rods to my post after thinking a bit more, and that would mix up the fight a bit, but yeah... I just don't like Kabuto's source of power so I'm a bit prejudiced lol

[Black God]

pein would win because kabuto can FLY and we all know what pein did to konoha once he got off his feet.

[e-dog]

Assuming equal seal speed:
First Move Chibaku Tensei (cast by Nagato himself) vs First Move Edo Tensei by Kabuto and it's game over for Kabuto. Itachi (by summoning partly materialized Susanoo the instant he emerges from the coffin) and perhaps Deidara (flying bird) and Jiraiya might be able to survive/elude Chibaku Tensei, but neither Kabuto nor Orochimaru has anything we've seen that would enable them to escape that jutsu. And I don't think either's regenerative powers could enable them to survive being crushed by tons of compact debris in 360 degrees. Nagato might lose to the combined might of all the Edo Tensei summons, but the battle you set up is Kabuto vs Nagato, and once Nagato has defeated Kabuto, no need for him to stick around to babysit the zombie summons. Plus, as we've seen with Orochimaru's version of Edo Tensei, the zombies have very poor taijutsu skills compared to their original living bodies - Shodaime and Nidaime were unable to dodge Sandaime's explosive seals, and Sandaime (keep in mind this is a 60 year old geezer hardly at the peak of his taijutsu skills) even caught the zombies with his Kage Bunshins when he was blinded by Shodaime's genjutsu... So Nagato could conceivably easily insert some of his poles into the Edo Tensei summons and take them over; Edo Tensei would then work in favor of Nagato rather than Kabuto. Remember Kakashi's words: Think before using a jutsu.

I do think that Itachi in undead form is just too unfair though once he's got Susanoo out... Since Susanoo's life-draining penalty wouldn't even affect him in that state, he can just keep spamming Susanoo the entire fight, but Pain doesn't have to take out undead Itachi to beat Kabuto.

The other Edo Tensei forms to be honest just aren't that strong without a high taijutsu base though...

One last point: Nagato could also summon Gedo Mazo, the perfect counter to Edo Tensei. The closer the Edo tensei summons or Kabuto get to Nagato, the more exponentially likely they are to get their souls sucked out. So taijutsu's out. Long distance ninjutsu or Amaterasu? Not a chance with Fat Pain around. Genjutsu? Sure, Itachi can genjutsu Nagato, but that won't kill him, and Gedo Mazo seems to be like Susanoo in that it moves independently of its master's will. The only thing that could arguably defend against Gedo Mazo would be Susanoo. They are both incorporeal summons so that would be an interesting matchup.


I think you're looking at this a tad too one-sided :p
We've got Dei with his Clay bombs and ultimate nuclear blast thingy who poses a pretty big threat, blowing shit up.
We've got Kaku who is pretty much a 4-5 Elemental all-rounder who can raise all kinds of hell on everybody.
We've got J-man who is a Jounin+ Ninja, In sage more even Kage+ kicking all kinds off ass using summons, ma & pa frog, taijutsu, ninjutsu & speed.
We've got Itachi who can rape everything in eye-sight.
And finally we've got the weird schizophrenic Sasuke-obsessed tentacle-rape guy who can do just that :p

I also think you are underestimating genjutsu a little.
Trapping your opponent in genjutsu will give you a huge advantage/window of opportunity since your opponent (and maybe even the 6 paths) will be paralyzed or just fighting enemies they think they see while in reality they are fighting thin air in an illusion.
With genjutsu, it seriously could always end as fast as someone casting a genjutsu, trapping him inside an illusion just before stabbing him in his heart, or just "Amaterasu'ing" his genjutsu'd ass.


IT--

[Reenie]

yeah, I don't really believe Nagato can win without a surprise or sneak attack lol. I'm in denial q.q

Grrr, if only Kishi showed the development of Kabuto's own powers before springing Edo Tensei upon us again, I could accept Kabuto as a decent villain =((. It's hard for me to accept someone who himself seems weaker than Itachi, Jiraiya, or Nagato end up ultimately controlling these people.

[Hauradrims3]

Hehe, i dint think this would ever happen but someone can finally stand up to pain it seems! Really amazing...
Im glad my first thread got some attention too. Anyway, theres some really good posts with lots of heart :) hehe
poll results are pretty tight as of right now :O what a matchup!

[kirby800]

This isn't a really close one but one thing stops me from saying Kabutpo wins... Thats Gedo Mazo... Nagato himself can summon Gedo Mazo and in the flashbacks of the past we saw he used it to suck the souls out of the fodder nins... Then couldnt he also use it to suck away the souls of the Edo tensei'd?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/11/

IMO If he were to use his pain bodies to hold them off just long enough for him to summon the statue... i think he cud win the 1st scenario easier than 2nd becuz in the first he isnt vulnerable till all his bodies are defeated... IMO that the bodies could hold off long enough...


Just my thoughts but if Nagato can use Gedo Mazo it will be the deciding factor in both scenarios... What you guys think?

[e-dog]

pein would win because kabuto can FLY and we all know what pein did to konoha once he got off his feet.

Well Itachi wasn't there in Konoha to blow his ass out of the sky, was he? :D


IT--

[SilentBob777]

pein would win because kabuto can FLY and we all know what pein did to konoha once he got off his feet.

But Deidara can fly, as well as his bombs. Also do you think Itachi, Jiraiya, Sasori, Daidara, Kakuzu and Kabuto would just stand there waiting to see what kind of jutsu is Pain going to pull out?

[AlB]

Scenario 1: Kabuto with full Oro abilities, Itachi and Jirayia Combo will be way too much for even a god like Pain

Scenario 2: this one goes to Pain, he will simply suck out edo tenseis' souls, remember demon and human realms? and then annihilate Kabuto

[hakuthehedgehog]

Just two questions: Kabuto shouldn't know jack shit about Nagato's abilities, while Nagato should know the other figthers's abilities since they were former akatsuki members.
Also, by having all the original abilities mean that Jiraya has got sage mode and summon?
Sasori has all the puppets? Itachi can use Susano'o? (he shouldn't because he doesn't have ife force since he is a corpse)

[Raizen]

These bodies to me are pretty durable. Remember, human pein got kicked by SM J-man and was fine. So to take them out, you need to literraly destroy the bodies.

Pein has 2 techniques he can use to dominate, Chibaku tensei which was able to withstand the strength of even 8TK, so even with all those ninjas, kabuto won't break free.
The second is the soul sucking thing as someone pointed out. That can end teh battle easily.

I personally do not see the edo tensei summons to be as powerful as the real ones. The 1st and 2nd hokage's weren't really bright. They seemed kind of sluggish and their skills seemed weak. Yea, they may have access to the powers of the dead but they may not have the instinct and skills to use them effectively.

Furthermore, with the summons of animal pein, that is enough to keep the bodies at bay for nagato to make his move.

Also, nagato being the body of life and death. Wouldn't he be able to somehow reverse the summons and use them as his own? :blink

[Delbi]

This isn't even close. If Kabuto has just Jiraiya and Itachi he could win. Add in Kakazu, Deidara and Sasori and Nagato is going to get his shit kicked.

Jiraiya can take care of the summons with his own, Itachi could camp Sussano while the Frog's prepare Frog Song and Deidara, Sasori and Kakazu just play offense for shits and giggles.

Pain gets ass-raped if all the bodies have their orginal abilities and what not. Even if the don't, half assed versions of all these legendary ninja might be enough to beat Nagato because they are that powerful.

[Lord Abortion]

Unless Pein baited Itachi into using Amaterasu, then used CT, then dropped a mini AM moon on everyone I don't see how either of these two situations even give some fair playing ground.

[juUnior]

Scenario 1: Nagato is just utterly finished.

Scenario 2: I think it's quite an equal match-up. If I consider the bodies to be weaker than original, I can say they can be easily matched up with every Pain body. If so, than I can really see a scenario for Nagato to win while sacrificing his Pain bodies:
- Pain bodies occupy each fighter from Kabuto side including him <because in scenarios it's the fact he can summon 5 bodies, so including him as a fighting power, but weak, gives 6 opponents>
- Chibaku Tensei in the middle of the fight of those 12 personas :p
Nagato wins.
I also like the scenario with sucking souls on a mass scale. Considering how weak Kabuto himself is in scenario 2, and how much weaker would be the zombies of his I can see Nagato pulling this off.

So to sum up scenario 2: tie, I can see one side or the other to win, really. BUT! considering, that Nagato is able to really well operate with his bodies in "combo modes" I am inclined to believe that would be the major factor of his win against so much "weaker" Kabuto and his zombies in scenario 2 <although its hard for me to believe that, but still the scenario 2 requirments are against Kabuto>

[Gats]

There is another thread where almost all famous Konoha elite jounins together are fighting Pain. And a lot of guys said they would lose, mainly because Pain can nuke them with a big Shinrai Tensei like he did with the village or the giant toads. So why Kabuto, with Endo Tensei, would win here ?
Even more when Pain is probably one of the very few who has the right tool against the Zombi team by taking away their soul.

I don't say I think Pain would win here but I'm surprised by the difference of comments here compared with the other thread.

[Rikudou King]

Probably because the bodies that Kabuto's using can't die, So just Shinra Tensei'ing them won't end things. Nagato will have to actually get his hands dirty to win.

[Gats]

Probably because the bodies that Kabuto's using can't die, So just Shinra Tensei'ing them won't end things. Nagato will have to actually get his hands dirty to win.

He sends them fly away, very far. Then he can be alone with Kabuto for a while. If can't control his ST nuke, he can also make a bird summon to follow Kabuto and chases him.

Or he creates his own little moon quickly, the gravity would be too high for any of his opponents here and I don't see a good counter from Kabuto side.

[Oathencrantz]

Gedo Mazo, Outer Path (control over life and death), Human Path, Chibaku Tensei... I also doubt that these Edo Tenseied shinobi would be at their maximum strength, but I guess you could say that's just speculation. Not saying Nagato/Pain would win, just saying that he has multiple ways of dealing with these undead shinobi.

[Zatono]

All Nagato needs to do is use Human Realm in order to take the souls out of the body. It's as simple as that. Considering that it's basically zombie body vs zombie body, and Nagato can bring his bodies back to life, it should be simple to quickly get a hold on any body and suck out it's soul .

[Delbi]

All Nagato needs to do is use Human Realm in order to take the souls out of the body. It's as simple as that. Considering that it's basically zombie body vs zombie body, and Nagato can bring his bodies back to life, it should be simple to quickly get a hold on any body and suck out it's soul .

No ninja of the caliber of Itachi, Deidara, Sasori, Kakazu, etc would ever allow another ninja to grasp them by the head which is what Human Realm has to do to suck their soul out. So Human realm would be pretty much useless.

[Rikudou King]

He sends them fly away, very far. Then he can be alone with Kabuto for a while. If can't control his ST nuke, he can also make a bird summon to follow Kabuto and chases him.

Or he creates his own little moon quickly, the gravity would be too high for any of his opponents here and I don't see a good counter from Kabuto side. I'm not denying that, I was merely stating the reason some people believed why Nagato would have such trouble.

Nagato has showcased too many uber abilities to have too much trouble handling Kabuto and his forces.

[Phoenix946]

Why does the poll here (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54988) show many people believing Itachi and Jiraiya can take down Pain, yet this poll shows more people thinking Jiraiya, Itachi and 4 other extremely powerful shinobi can't?

Especially votes for the first scenario as well, we're talking not only zombies as strong as their living counterparts here, those zombies can only be killed by Human Realm or Gedo Mazou! You have to be crazy to believe Nagato wins in that scenario.

[Poneglyph420]

Both scenarios seem like pure doom for Nagato to me. Sure he has ST, CT and GM.. It's simply not enough to handle both zombies and their oh so clever master...

But just the zombies we know of would likely be enough to handle Pain. Beyond that we don't know which other sh!t your pants jutsu he has under his sleeve....

Sorry if he's capable of making a deal with Madara, based on intimidation...
It's win for Kabuto.

[Gats]

What Kabuto and his pets can do against the little moon ?

At least, in the other thread with Kakashi and the other jounins there is a chance with a Kamui on the little black sphere before it's complete. Here I don't see what Kabuto and his new slaves can do.

[DEATHBOTT]

kabuto wins the first because im assuming jiraiya at 100% means he can use sage mode even though he would need ma and pa to help his zombie ass. that said he can just hang back until their genjutsu song is ready and take out pain and he has boss summons to add to the distraction. assuming itachi has his eyes he can just sit there with susonoo fireing of amaratsus and swating at any pains that get to close with his sealing sword. sasori can pull a hundred puppets out of his ass and swarm the useless pains and can bust out the third kazekage for the harder ones. kakazu can fire of his elemental attacks or get in close if he cuts of one of the shitty pains. diedra can drops some bombs on pains ginger ass and if all else fails can micro bomb everyone and if that fails can megabomb everyone. and kabuto can just look cool and slither around. they don't even need to all fight at once some of them could be on the look out for bigger attacks to strike before they are pulled off since only one guy can use them.

since you havn't put a restriction on their knowlegde ill assume kabuto knows about nagato and his weakness. ill also assume that nagato is with the pain bodys on the oppostie head since you said nothing of it. i would expect with his knowlegde of pain team kabuto would blitz nagato as fast as possible taking out all the bodies at once.

in scenario 1 kabuto immortal kage level buddies only weakness is a move only nagato can preform and seems like all you have to do is run away from the giant statue to evade and then snipe the cripple who can't move.

in scenario 2 you took away nagatos strength which is he isn't near the fighting and the other team has knowlegde of the weakness. and the only moves that could possibly stop the other team are large area of effect jutsu that incapcitate the other pains and would be incredibly risky to pull off.

[Raizen]

I personally do not believe that the zombies are as strong as the real living ninjas Furthermore, I can see nagato summoning the statue and just absorbing all their souls. Not muchc to it.

And if the moon can contain up to 8TK, then i don't see anyone or anything other than the 9tails breaking out of that

[Hauradrims3]

I personally do not believe that the zombies are as strong as the real living ninjas Furthermore, I can see nagato summoning the statue and just absorbing all their souls. Not muchc to it.

And if the moon can contain up to 8TK, then i don't see anyone or anything other than the 9tails breaking out of that

From the time it takes to summon it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/07/ up to the point in which nagato actually controls it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/10/ is a good 10-15 seconds. Not only that, but his body gets pierced by chakra rods in order for him to control it. Thus, he cant really move, and on top of that, hes already in a wheelchair. Hes a sitting duck if he tries it.

[Raizen]

From the time it takes to summon it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/07/ up to the point in which nagato actually controls it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/10/ is a good 10-15 seconds. Not only that, but his body gets pierced by chakra rods in order for him to control it. Thus, he cant really move, and on top of that, hes already in a wheelchair. Hes a sitting duck if he tries it.
umm he doesn't need to move since his bodies will protect him. The summons from animal pein is enough to keep the other side busy for some time. Then there is also missle pein, then there is god pein himself.

Furthermore, the statue acts as a sort of weapon that protects him as the pages show. The ninjas had to doge the claw of the statue. And the speed in which the sould sucking attack happens is also very quick. I had forgotten about that. Now that i have seen that, I am quite certain nagato can win with that technique

[SuperSaiyaMan]

Kabuto dies painfully in both scenarios. The Six Paths of Pain dismantle him and his Edo Tensei Summons.

[jdw]

From the time it takes to summon it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/07/ up to the point in which nagato actually controls it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/10/ is a good 10-15 seconds. Not only that, but his body gets pierced by chakra rods in order for him to control it. Thus, he cant really move, and on top of that, hes already in a wheelchair. Hes a sitting duck if he tries it.

After the close of the battle where the rods were inserted by Gedo Mazo, Nagato has them in all the time, it appears (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/443/17/), because they were broken off and left in him (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/13/). So it is unlikely that Gedo Mazo would restab him with the rods upon each appearance. Perhaps Nagato would be able to control Gedo Mazo immediately because that process is over.

[Raizen]

I for one think that nagato is severely underestimated. i have seent hings like itachi can just amaretsu his ass or genjutsu him when it is clear nagato was a monster of a ninja. sheesh

[Delbi]

What Kabuto and his pets can do against the little moon ?

At least, in the other thread with Kakashi and the other jounins there is a chance with a Kamui on the little black sphere before it's complete. Here I don't see what Kabuto and his new slaves can do.

There's numerous things they can do to destroy Deva before he ever has a chance to us CT. People seem to forget that the jutsu isn't instant and as far as we know, all other bodies have to be deactivated, and Deva has to be close to Nagato.
[hr]

I for one think that nagato is severely underestimated. i have seent hings like itachi can just amaretsu his ass or genjutsu him when it is clear nagato was a monster of a ninja. sheesh

Nagato said himself if Jiraiya knew his secret he could not have won. So, when you have Jiraiya, plus Itachi, Hirashima, Kakazu, Deidara, Sasori and Kabuto, how the hell would Nagato win? Even if they don't know his secret the massive amount of power and intelligence on their side swings the tide heavily into their favor. Not to mention all of them but Kabuto are immortal.

We don't even know if Nagato is even capable of using Gedo like he used to, it nearly killed him last time, so perhaps if he'd use it again he'd die.

[SuperSaiyaMan]

There's numerous things they can do to destroy Deva before he ever has a chance to us CT. People seem to forget that the jutsu isn't instant and as far as we know, all other bodies have to be deactivated, and Deva has to be close to Nagato.
The bodies had to be deactivated for the Chou Shinra Tensei, prove that they need to be deactivated for the Chibaku Tensei. And just because all the bodies were destroyed at the time-that's not proof. You have to prove that Nagato has to disable the other bodies for Chibaku Tensei.




Nagato said himself if Jiraiya knew his secret he could not have won. So, when you have Jiraiya, plus Itachi, Hirashima, Kakazu, Deidara, Sasori and Kabuto, how the hell would Nagato win? Even if they don't know his secret the massive amount of power and intelligence on their side swings the tide heavily into their favor. Not to mention all of them but Kabuto are immortal.
That statement is just showing respect to his former teacher. Nagato wins easily due to his own overwhelming power, monstrous taijutsu, and monstrous ninjutsu. For one, how as Jiraiya even goign to FIND Nagato if he knew the secret? And why would the bodies stand around and do nothing?

Just one Pain body was more than enough to force Base Jiraiya into Sage Mode. Just three bodies were able to overwhelm Sage Mode Jiraiya and force him to retreat.

We don't even know if Nagato is even capable of using Gedo like he used to, it nearly killed him last time, so perhaps if he'd use it again he'd die.
He's been using Gedo Mazo each time they needed to seal a Bijuu. And he doesn't need it, he can just yank the souls out of the Edo Tensei summons with Human Realm.

[Delbi]

The bodies had to be deactivated for the Chou Shinra Tensei, prove that they need to be deactivated for the Chibaku Tensei. And just because all the bodies were destroyed at the time-that's not proof. You have to prove that Nagato has to disable the other bodies for Chibaku Tensei.

It's common sense. Chibaku Tensei was at the same scale if not a larger one than the Shinra Tensei. Nagato had to deactivate the bodies so Deva had more chakra to use the more powerful ST.

He then had Deva move closer to recieve a stronger signal of chakra from Nagato so he could preform the jutsu. I fail to see how he'd be able to perform a jutsu of that scale with only 1/6 of his chakra.



That statement is just showing respect to his former teacher. Nagato wins easily due to his own overwhelming power, monstrous taijutsu, and monstrous ninjutsu. For one, how as Jiraiya even goign to FIND Nagato if he knew the secret? And why would the bodies stand around and do nothing?

Just one Pain body was more than enough to force Base Jiraiya into Sage Mode. Just three bodies were able to overwhelm Sage Mode Jiraiya and force him to retreat.

He's been using Gedo Mazo each time they needed to seal a Bijuu. And he doesn't need it, he can just yank the souls out of the Edo Tensei summons with Human Realm.
It's Nagato's words, not mine. I much rather believe what he said that what you say. What he says is fact, what you say is opinon.

In any event, Human realm is shit compared to the ninja that Kabuto can summon. If he is capable of reaping one's soul so easily why didn't he do so to Jiraiya?

[SuperSaiyaMan]

It's common sense. Chibaku Tensei was at the same scale if not a larger one than the Shinra Tensei. Nagato had to deactivate the bodies so Deva had more chakra to use the more powerful ST.
No, its not common sense. Chibaku Tensei looked easier to pull off than the Chou Shinra Tensei.

He then had Deva move closer to recieve a stronger signal of chakra from Nagato so he could preform the jutsu. I fail to see how he'd be able to perform a jutsu of that scale with only 1/6 of his chakra.
Thats where the other bodies are defending him while he gets the jutsu ready.


It's Nagato's words, not mine. I much rather believe what he said that what you say. What he says is fact, what you say is opinon.
And what the hell is Jiraiya going to even do while knowing the secret? Nagato was just giving his teacher praise.

In any event, Human realm is shit compared to the ninja that Kabuto can summon. If he is capable of reaping one's soul so easily why didn't he do so to Jiraiya?
Human realm's taijutsu is not to be underestimated, he could catch Sage Mode Jiraiya's punches with one hand while blinded.

He didn't do so with Jiraiya since Jiraiya's barrier and guard was still up. the entire portion of the battle was for Jiraiya to lower his guard.

[Delbi]

No, its not common sense. Chibaku Tensei looked easier to pull off than the Chou Shinra Tensei.

Thats where the other bodies are defending him while he gets the jutsu ready.

Alright I'm done arguing with you because all you're doing is trolling now and just ignoring obvious facts. Let me educate you before I go back to class.

1. Chibaku Tensei was killing Nagato, Shinra Tensei was not. It was quite obvious which technique was more powerful.

2. Deva was not preparing CT, in fact the only thing he needed to do to activate the jutsu was move closer to Nagato. The ONLY reason the other bodies were protecting him was because his powers had not yet returned to him after using the massive Shinra Tensei.

[mattiaildivino]

if nagato uses a gian shinra tensei he wins,and then he wins both scenarios because he kills kabuto. if he doesn't do that,he loses against itachi and the others.