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Dofla
April 15, 2010, 06:36 PM
Serious matter.
Shueisha asks for the end of scans on the internet.
http://thumbnails27.imagebam.com/7663/0576c576623654.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0576c576623654/)

BBB Banana
April 15, 2010, 06:46 PM
Online scans are not a bad thing most people who buy manga like myself get to know series trough the internet and then buy actual copies. If it wasn't for scans the western fanbase would be even smaller.

Anyways is not like is gonna change anything It's the same as musicians asking for people to stop downloading music.

[Cross]
April 15, 2010, 07:24 PM
Translation credits to cmertb

To all our readers
There are now many people unjustly posting copies of manga on the internet. These unjust copies are inconsistent with mangakas' feelings. They are also distorting the authors' intentions of "I want the work to be read this way". The actions of posting these unjust copies on the net, into which the mangakas have poured their hearts, are not only hurting mangakas in real life but are also against the law, even if done in a light-hearted manner. Every time we discover such "unjust copies", we talk to the mangaka and consider every possible countermeasure. But the number of inconsiderate people is great, and at present we cannot deal with all of them. We have a request for all our readers. The unjust internet copies are deeply hurting the manga culture, mangakas' rights, and even mangakas' souls. Please understand once again that all of that is against the law. Also, the mangakas and Shueisha will severely deal with any unjust copies found on the internet. We ask that our readers please continue to support us.

~Weekly Shounen Jump editorial department

Negative Syndicate
April 15, 2010, 07:59 PM
Is that mean no more Jump?:eek:

jamjamstyle
April 15, 2010, 08:05 PM
On raw-paradise, all the scans are removed and there's only written: The End

This is bad....

StrangerAtaru
April 15, 2010, 08:11 PM
This is just sad but unfortunately I think they realize it has to come to this. They want to sell manga legally...yet sadly this is how things become popular. It's sort of a two-way street and somehow I just wish there was a way for this to be resolved.

Waveblade
April 15, 2010, 08:40 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how this announcement affects the community in the future.

Franckie
April 15, 2010, 09:08 PM
Shueisha's request is unreasonable and they know it. It's not just English speaking countries that "pilfer" manga scans, it's also Chinese, French, Spanish, Japanese, etc. speaking groups that are involved too. Enforcement is impossible because you have too many people scanning stuff and too many loopholes for scanners to exploit, which Shueisha even acknowledges.

Besides, the international community has little other means of following scans. I personally buy manga volumes of series I'm a major fan of - examples being One Piece and Fullmetal Alchemist - and I wouldn't be able to currently follow these series if not for scanlations.

Shueisha's best hope is to encourage fans to respect and support series they're reading because that's pretty much the only thing they can actually do.

Bugzee
April 15, 2010, 09:08 PM
:wall

This is very bad indeed! I think "the end" announcement has already triggered off a frenzy on the net. Even more delays to come now.... :crying

Drmke
April 15, 2010, 09:20 PM
This is indeed very sad, but its strange that they don't realize how much scans have affected the popularity of their manga outside of Japan. Or maybe they do and now that is gotten much bigger in other countries they are trting to make the only way to read their manga is to buy it from them.

Charlie
April 15, 2010, 09:41 PM
The world has ended. :faint Its all over... we'll not really. Things will just go low key for a while I guess.

Kizo
April 15, 2010, 09:42 PM
Can't understand how Shueisha wanting to cease illegal scans leads Raw-Paradise to shut down entirely. It hosted far more than just Shueisha properties.

ketorin
April 15, 2010, 09:54 PM
Whenever I go to raw-paradise (http://kidoailakutrad.free.fr/) it just says "the end" Why is it saying that? Is it just having down time or did they stop it?

Charlie
April 15, 2010, 09:56 PM
Well theres probably a big panic fest going on at their end.

StrangerAtaru
April 15, 2010, 10:01 PM
I think the biggest problem IMHO is twofold:

-The Japanese problem (getting manga for free before their legitimately on sale)
-The international problem (what we are)

They really need to find a way to legitimize the model by offering manga for sale on the web, even if it's a weekly access to WSJ with a fee in Japanese (which I won't mind cause then the TLers will have the job to sort of match it up until the legit volumes come out in the respective countries), but...who knows how this will turn out.

Negative Syndicate
April 15, 2010, 10:11 PM
I think if people still want to upload scanlation, they might should upload about one week after the magazine has released or after the publisher released new issue.

bellcrossage
April 15, 2010, 10:12 PM
Whenever I go to raw-paradise (http://kidoailakutrad.free.fr/) it just says "the end" Why is it saying that? Is it just having down time or did they stop it?
Please refer to this thread: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59936

It details what is happening.

Nihil
April 15, 2010, 10:19 PM
The message is probably aimed at the Japanese market more than the scanlation community... I recall one Raw-Paradise admin saying that their site got 90-95% Japanese visitors, with the remaining 5-10% being international visitors. Plus, it's not like English scanlations are hurting sales of Jump in Japan. Though, given the dependency of English/non-Japanese scanlation on freely-available Japanese raws, it doesn't really matter who the message is targeted at.

Waveblade
April 15, 2010, 10:51 PM
http://rawmangaland.blogspot.com/ uses the download links from raw-paradise. Say no more.


I think if people still want to upload scanlation, they might should upload about one week after the magazine has released or after the publisher released new issue.

This does make sense.

Znow
April 15, 2010, 11:33 PM
//EDIT:

Hm.. seems that they DIDN`T get vanned, received a takedown or got somehow threatened after all. The admin just chickened out after seeing the SJ 2010-20 editorial, if i understand his post correctly. :(

http://ritualscan2.free.fr/viewtopic.php?t=51&start=2880

TwEeD
April 16, 2010, 03:57 AM
He says that editors are preparing measures for months ... not much else actually

~FrienD~
April 16, 2010, 04:53 AM
Is that mean no more Jump?:eek:

it means no more MH

benelori
April 16, 2010, 05:38 AM
How will this affect this forum...I was always wondering if these fan-forums who have manga datebases are doing it within legal limits...
Personally I don't think the demise of raw-paradise will affect people, since there are spoiler providers who upload pics as well, not just scripts

eni
April 16, 2010, 05:48 AM
We're not going to let it affect the normal raw uploads and also don't think that it will affect the scanlation scene much. Raw paradise isn't the only raw provider, never was, and the open request by Shueisha seems to be formerly adressed to Japanese people.

Really, no reason to panic over this.

DutchPhoenix
April 16, 2010, 06:11 AM
they could also post their own mange's on their own site and be always be the fastest/best + have translations into english and gain money by adverts.

eni
April 16, 2010, 06:13 AM
That's what fans ask for since ages. Wishful thinking for now, I'm afraid :(

bobossp
April 16, 2010, 06:18 AM
The ritual scanforge website is down, troubles are coming? or it may be a coincidence because of an overload of people?

◆ T.D.A ◆
April 16, 2010, 06:48 AM
Can't blame them, sulk all you want, but they have that right.

goldb
April 16, 2010, 06:52 AM
I think the biggest problem IMHO is twofold:

-The Japanese problem (getting manga for free before their legitimately on sale)
-The international problem (what we are)

They really need to find a way to legitimize the model by offering manga for sale on the web, even if it's a weekly access to WSJ with a fee in Japanese (which I won't mind cause then the TLers will have the job to sort of match it up until the legit volumes come out in the respective countries), but...who knows how this will turn out.

I agree with you, there has to be a solution where the two sides can meet in the middle. If it wasn't for online scans, I wouldn't know half of what I do now about mangas and keep up.

omg the end just sounds depressing. Dark days up ahead....

cepillon
April 16, 2010, 07:01 AM
the Beginning Of The End!!!!..

nah xD... the problem is the Early "releases" if the scanlators out a
international scan the day when the Magazine is out...this can be a good way to resolve the problems xD... Greetings!

LilaChan
April 16, 2010, 07:03 AM
How many people who download scans would actually buy it if they couldn't download it? In all honesty, the magazine costs less then 300yen (a CD single is at least 1,000yen), if I was in Japan I would rather spend that little extra money and read it on paper. I would think most people that downloads are the ones who would only read it if it is free (you get alot of these people when it comes to crappy music). One Piece is still having record sales (isn't it the best selling manga now?), so clearly people would still spend money on a quality series.

I'm not exactly sure what Shueisha is trying to do. I don't think an open request like that is going to do much. Scans might be a little slower for the next few weeks, after that, it's going to be back at full speed. I still remember the day where the Japanese police caught the main uploaders for TV animes, Shugo Chara raws took 20 hours to pop up instead of 5 hours...After a while the raw is up after a couple of hours after airing.

◆ T.D.A ◆
April 16, 2010, 07:06 AM
Just because the raws are taken down online doesn't mean it'll stop scans. Raws can be sent by email or whatever to scan groups who then scan the chapter and post online.

unok-kun
April 16, 2010, 08:33 AM
the Beginning Of The End!!!!..

nah xD... the problem is the Early "releases" if the scanlators out a
international scan the day when the Magazine is out...this can be a good way to resolve the problems xD... Greetings!

The raws for "early" releases are mostly scanned before the official sale date (I mean WSJ scanlations coming out on Thursdays and the likes). And that won't affect too much the scanlation panorama, except the scanlations of magazines without a regular raw provider other than RP...

eni
April 16, 2010, 08:45 AM
except the scanlations of magazines without a regular raw provider other than RP...
Will be interesting to see if that has an effect on the speed scans scene.

Personally I wouldn't mind when a lack of public raws cuts the mainstream series down to 1~2 groups each. There's too much trash being released. However, it's probably deadly to the smaller wsj series that only get popular through public raws.

I don't really care since I mainly follow manga scanlated by groups with private raws. Though, I always enjoyed raw camping on Naruto, since many years, but I kinda lost interest in doing that during the past year. I can wait on releases, no need for speedies :p

Negative Syndicate
April 16, 2010, 10:03 AM
Does anyone know other website(s) that provide raw scans? I think most of other websites (that I've known) are came from Raw-Paradise.

◆ T.D.A ◆
April 16, 2010, 10:24 AM
one piece, bleach and naruto are pretty much safe since mangastream get their raw in private.

Sensei 12
April 16, 2010, 10:28 AM
Does anyone know other website(s) that provide raw scans? I think most of other websites (that I've known) are came from Raw-Paradise.

Maybe you can use "Share", a program where you can find raws. But I dunno how it works :p

Or there is Jcafe24.net, but some links are not more available. It depens on what you're looking for :oh

andysislands
April 16, 2010, 10:43 AM
I find the irony in that they print this annoucement in WSJ. They only way for the word about it to get out is to, of course, scan in the page.

So, for the English speaking scanlations, I think we are fine for now. Once some C&D orders start getting sent out, then things might start to change.

LoneWolfx03
April 16, 2010, 11:51 AM
So... does that mean we can still read translated scans for a couple of days and no more spoilers?
I agree with Shueisha's idea..no problem with that.. I buy mangas and I'm still supporting the Author's work.....even Ken Akamatsu and Takuya Fujiwara..haha

It's like some people prefer to watch a trailer rather than a movie... I would say.. It is better to wait..don't SPOIL the fun..Patience is a virtue you know.. I might even wait for Shueisha's decision if it is clear and safe for us, the fans..some people just went overboard, that's it...I don't care how many years must they take to reach on a proper solution ...I WAIT!!

SuperSaiyaMan
April 16, 2010, 11:56 AM
So does anyone agree with me that Shueisha is starting to get more money grubby than even carrying about their mangakas? Seriously, Kishimoto, Kubo, and Oda probably love knowing the international fanbase they got due to scanlations.

eni
April 16, 2010, 12:16 PM
Seriously, Kishimoto, Kubo, and Oda probably love knowing the international fanbase they got due to scanlations.
Hehe, Kubo was pretty excited on his Twitter that he had an African fan. I wonder if he realizes that this was most likely a scanlation reader.

◆ T.D.A ◆
April 16, 2010, 12:18 PM
Kishimoto doesn't have a computer or has only now got one so he probably doesn't know much of the going ons.

Zibi234
April 16, 2010, 12:22 PM
btw did you saw what happened now to raw-paradise page.... the black screen with "the end" disappeared... and it was replaced with Shueisha web page damn japan bastards... hope that someone will DoS their page in return ^^

so hopes that they will stop giving raws till the golden week ends now vanishes... so was this warning of theirs "mean to replace the raw-paradise page with their home page to gain fame this way... like many people know RP page so lots of people will visit that page now only to see a BAD taste joke supprise"

hmmm maybe "Shueisha" thinks that their mangas dont sell well so they found a sacraficial goat... which is Raw-paradise only to port their page link there... and get people visit their page (that not much visit) by force...


anyway I guess that without raws and any source to get chapters in some countries (duo that the magazines are not beign brought there) will at the end go to the drop in manga popularity... less readers manga starts to get forgotten......... personaly I found few mangas that I follow thx to online reading... I saw thats interesting and started to like it... without that I wouldnt even know that such manga exists...... Nyan koi at least gets online releases for everyone...

ca12nag3
April 16, 2010, 12:45 PM
Hmm its so dual, if lots of japanese people read online and not buy the mangas it would indeed hurt the business, tho the translated versions serve as promotion. I myself have bought mangas after i read them online and started to like them. So without the scans id never buy m.

I think that the companies in general sidestep this promotional material to easily. I dont know the figures of sales for most manga. But i do know that most of the non anime manga sell international due to online reading. Thats a fact.

Losing Raw Paradise isnt that big a issue i think. What it was was a dumpsite for all raws, so people could take a peak in whats up next, and i recon japanese people would download to read < that might upset them.
most of the groups that do the scanning/translating are independant from Raw Paradise. And i think that its near impossible to get to them all.

3c
April 16, 2010, 12:47 PM
I'm sure most authors know full well that their mangas wouldn't have nearly as large a fanbase as they currently have if their work wasn't published illegaly on the net. This message mostly affects the "smaller" series as it'll be harder to get raws (although it should still be fairly easy). Raw-paradise dissapearing isn't really a big deal by itself. Personally I only follow "big" series such as popular shounen series, Gantz, FMA, DGM etc so I'm not really afraid of how this will affect my own enjoyment of manga series. Still for the "smaller" series this shouldn't be a grand problem so it's no point to hype this more than necessary. Raws will still easily come out and groups will always scanlate the chapters. So no point in panicking.

Starks
April 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
Maybe you can use "Share", a program where you can find raws. But I dunno how it works :p

Or there is Jcafe24.net, but some links are not more available. It depens on what you're looking for :oh
Perfect Dark is also pretty good. Easier to use than Share, though files may not appear as quickly.

◆ T.D.A ◆
April 16, 2010, 01:46 PM
Can't you just import manga to your own country if you're that desperate?

Schabrak
April 16, 2010, 01:50 PM
It is not that hard to put one and one together... why else would the adress be linked to the head company of Shounen Jump and Co. And it was right to do so... Scanlations are one thing, but advertize it so openly, put DDL links to every Manga they own not.

Warlord90
April 16, 2010, 01:51 PM
Completely off topic, I realize this...but what happened to raw paradise? anybody? They get busted or something?

Well Shueisha sent an email, saying that scanlations of One Piece in the internet ruin Oda's soul and of course they lose money with it. Raw Paradise decided to stop uploading ONE PIECE chapters and have written ''end'' on their home page.

''Translation credits to cmertb ( AP forums)

To all our readers

There are now many people unjustly posting copies of manga on the internet. These unjust copies are inconsistent with mangakas' feelings. They are also distorting the authors' intentions of "I want the work to be read this way". The actions of posting these unjust copies on the net, into which the mangakas have poured their hearts, are not only hurting mangakas in real life but are also against the law, even if done in a light-hearted manner. Every time we discover such "unjust copies", we talk to the mangaka and consider every possible countermeasure. But the number of inconsiderate people is great, and at present we cannot deal with all of them. We have a request for all our readers. The unjust internet copies are deeply hurting the manga culture, mangakas' rights, and even mangakas' souls. Please understand once again that all of that is against the law. Also, the mangakas and Shueisha will severely deal with any unjust copies found on the internet. We ask that our readers please continue to support us.
~Weekly Shounen Jump editorial department''

BBB Banana
April 16, 2010, 01:53 PM
Most mangas from shonen magazine are not available in my country but I do buy the ones availables like air gear. And I'm not that rich to import manga.

DLord.Van.Buuren
April 16, 2010, 01:56 PM
well he'll be ruining his fan base as well , man what is this guys damage right now , one thing after another , why dont he just draw and write one piece quitely .

Schabrak
April 16, 2010, 02:07 PM
well he'll be ruining his fan base as well , man what is this guys damage right now , one thing after another , why dont he just draw and write one piece quitely .
Do you take drugs? Everyone, reading the scans and not buying the Manga, is a thief. And yeah I do buy them, when they are finally released.

And it is not only One Piece, Shueisha has to pay the Mangaka, everyone of them, and if those still small good ones, just getting started, fail because of this, it is their DAMN right to stop it.

The fanbase, that is stealing his work? Nobody wants such.

fuzaco
April 16, 2010, 02:32 PM
It doesn't really concern me, since I'm mostly only reading weekly/monthly released series that MangaStream is scanlating (One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, D.Gray-man, Soul Eater, Fairy Tail, with the expection of Beelzebub and Reborn), and they have they own raw provider. Also, I would like to buy these mangas in my country as well, but only Naruto is being published here, and it is only at volume 10, so I don't really have any choice (but of course, I could import english volumes, but this wouldn't really be the cheapest resolution).

[Cross]
April 16, 2010, 02:34 PM
Well Shueisha sent an email, saying that scanlations of One Piece in the internet ruin Oda's soul and of course they lose money with it. Raw Paradise decided to stop uploading ONE PIECE chapters and have written ''end'' on their home page.

''Translation credits to cmertb ( AP forums)

To all our readers

There are now many people unjustly posting copies of manga on the internet. These unjust copies are inconsistent with mangakas' feelings. They are also distorting the authors' intentions of "I want the work to be read this way". The actions of posting these unjust copies on the net, into which the mangakas have poured their hearts, are not only hurting mangakas in real life but are also against the law, even if done in a light-hearted manner. Every time we discover such "unjust copies", we talk to the mangaka and consider every possible countermeasure. But the number of inconsiderate people is great, and at present we cannot deal with all of them. We have a request for all our readers. The unjust internet copies are deeply hurting the manga culture, mangakas' rights, and even mangakas' souls. Please understand once again that all of that is against the law. Also, the mangakas and Shueisha will severely deal with any unjust copies found on the internet. We ask that our readers please continue to support us.
~Weekly Shounen Jump editorial department''


lol... I posted that here, it should be the third post in this thread, but anyway.
I don't see anything coming from this, if anything the only thing people should be worried about is what they plan to do in the future. While they mentioned something may happen, currently they're only saying that they're powerless to do anything.

As for raw paradise, we're just at the same place as we were before raw paradise was active, which means people will have to be more proactive in their raw providing methods.

Katz
April 16, 2010, 02:35 PM
I'm not well versed in the whole ideals of posting scanlations of manga, so forgive my newbness, but when say Mangastream or OM posts the latest chapter or Naruto,Bleach and OP...is what their doing illegal?...I asked this before and got a short answer of "Japaneses copyrights are more relaxed" or something to that effect

Schabrak
April 16, 2010, 02:45 PM
Off course it is illegal to offer copyrighted stuff to people, from countries, where it is licensed.

ScratchmenApoo
April 16, 2010, 02:46 PM
I don't really get this all profit-greedy-bull****.

Without free access to a wide variety of manga, we wouldn't know about a lot of series, so we can't spend time and money to find ways to buy them if we choose to do so.

It's like with music. If you don't hear a song/artist for free from a radio or download it, what are the chances that you will go buy the album from the music shop without having previously heard any of the songs ?

Schabrak
April 16, 2010, 02:48 PM
You could always import the Shueisha magazines. Hard to accept, but that is the truth. It may be harder to get them, but not impossible.

Cross. It there, the third post. .D But it should be quoted into the first post if possible.

xi0
April 16, 2010, 02:54 PM
This was done preemptively by the people who run Raw-Paradise.com to protect themselves. As was the watermark that recently started appearing. The statement in WSJ is addressed to Japanese fans who have easy and cheap access to the magazine in nearly every convenience store/corner shop in the country. It isn't addressed to international fans necessarily.

The Japanese raw scanning community get most of their raws from Raw-Paradise. As 2ch links to the site often and all of their raws turn up on Share/Perfect Dark. The Japanese traffic to sites like Raw-Paradise and sites of their kind is what the problem is, not the scanlation community, who do as much good for manga's popularity internationally as anything else.

LilaChan
April 16, 2010, 03:06 PM
I asked this before and got a short answer of "Japaneses copyrights are more relaxed" or something to that effectIn terms of doujinshis, yes. Most publisers turn a blind eye on people drawing their own 'manga' on copyrighted characters. But to my knowledge, uploading the actual scans is still illegal.


The statement in WSJ is addressed to Japanese fans who have easy and cheap access to the magazine in nearly every convenience store/corner shop in the country. Exactly, the mangazine is one of the cheapest entertainment in Japan. Apparently it's quite common for people to read magazine in stores/combini in Japan, so it's one method of the cheapos to read free mangas.


The Japanese raw scanning community get most of their raws from Raw-Paradise. Possibly because RP get them much earlier then the street date for the magazine. Interesting nevertheless. I heard stories of Japanese people importing the American anime releases because it's much cheaper then Japanese edition.

Zibi234
April 16, 2010, 03:14 PM
but seriously I dont get the japanese people.... I mean if I had a possibility to buy the magazine in a store as it appears there like they have... I would buy it...

but im from a whole different country and dont have such possibility and 95% of the mangas I read are not imported to my country.... and im not rich enought for private import..... but if I had such possibility as buing those mangas in latest chapters like in japan I would damn buy it for sure...

yet japoanese people have shops maybe in clsoe corner or at least in lower distance that they will add a very little for transport..... compared to shipping to europe is WAY WAY cheaper....

I guess the only manga that appears in my country (from what I read) is naruto... but its only at vol.40......(personaly I prefer english lang.. and not my native lang since sometimes it sounds tooo strange [strange name calling/spelling...]) so its WAY behind from current story line ;/

well japanese people give for 1WSJ issue like 400-500yen... while shipping alone to europe is like 1000-1500 yen + magazine price = 4xtimes more expensive than the magazine itself (not mention that 1-2week delay)


well im not kinda worried for Hyate gotoku, Negima, Naruto, d.gray mangas... since they rather have their own provider.... but im worried for ah my goddess, asu no yoichi, sora no otoshimono, rosario+vampire,kissxsis series for example... as they appear in different magazines than WSJ... (dont know if they have private providers...)

mega walker
April 16, 2010, 04:46 PM
:amuseYOU GUYS
i doubt they can get rid of every single online jump manga on the net! That would take ages and besides there will always be some one who scans manga somewhere

Kravmaga
April 16, 2010, 05:00 PM
Man, way to startle me for the day...
I know very well to panic at the sent of lawyers and their black magic but this is the closest to home their devastation has landed so far.
This all sounds like a bunch of suit-wearing philistines filed off their latest victims into their wall trophy room and checked their kill list for the next entry and saw "manga sites" for the rest of us to cry code bravo sierra over. So what jump caught the RIAA virus? They're in for profits after all.

Besides, manga magazines being scanned and traded online can be done by absolutely anybody in Japan and I hear that not only Japan but the whole internet is filled to the neck with absolute anybodies. Realistically, they know they won't ever be able to stop it entirely and I suspect they also know that clumsy heavy handed attempts to do so aren't worth the PR negatives. They simply want to close down the biggest players who compete directly with their distribution scheme online and make those who've grown used to expect their favorite series to be free on a weekly basis available on any bulletin board work a little harder than it takes to walk down to a store and read it there and maybe even buy it on a good day. This not the end of the manga-world by a long shot although it might mean a lot of folks will have to wade through the underground networks to source their material and go through the rituals, secret handshakes and special dance steps to do so...

OunknownO
April 16, 2010, 05:45 PM
:loool They will stop it..... not. We have warez for almost all the programs, movies, games.... and the laws for updatig them are much sharper... Remeber that dude in america that uploaded ea game and is now serving 10 years in jail and the game still got uploaded on the net... How greedy can they be OP sold in 3 000 000 pieces and that's just one volume

Estranho
April 16, 2010, 05:51 PM
People here say to import Japanese magazines and volumes, but they forget that there's a lot of people who can't read Japanese, like me.
Where it gets tricky, everybody wants to be politically correct.

Negative Syndicate
April 16, 2010, 05:53 PM
I have a question. Is this happening going to affect on MH, too? If it does, how it'll affect on MH?

eni
April 16, 2010, 06:07 PM
I have a question. Is this happening going to affect on MH, too? If it does, how it'll affect on MH?

We're still talking options through buuut.... most likely won't have any noticeable effect on MH for now. This was a open request, not a personal directed D/C, so for now it's all fine.

The staff will inform you as soon as possible :)

magicbulletgirl
April 16, 2010, 06:48 PM
People here say to import Japanese magazines and volumes, but they forget that there's a lot of people who can't read Japanese, like me.
Where it gets tricky, everybody wants to be politically correct.

I couldn't read Japanese when I bought my first JP magazine, but I could make the effort to research what the title of the magazine I was looking for looked like.
So no, it's not an excuse for not importing. And it doesn't hurt to look for specialty stores that import magazines and manga already.

Kaiten
April 16, 2010, 06:48 PM
It's important to keep in mind that magazines are loss leaders. Shueisha makes little money off WSJ, they may even take a loss. Certainly there other magazines are taking a loss. Magazines are a mix of tradition and a cheap way for fans to discover new series. Money is made with volume sales. As has been pointed out, WSJ is cheap. 24o yen converts to $2.61. Asking for that little to read twenty comics is not unreasonable, especially considering how much higher the quality is compared to an uncleaned raw. Unlike CD's this is not exactly profiteering. Also, do not forget that this is a failing media. Magazine sales have been declining for over a decade. Actions like this are meant to prop them up. Besides, Shueisha is a business. They exist to make money. International sales are not even a drop in the bucket. As far as they are concerned we are not a market. At best we are an area of potential growth. The Japanese market is the be all end all of manga the business.

The message seems directed at raw providers rather than scanlators. I'm sure the online manga community will be effected. The availability of mag-raws may constrict. Hopefully there are not any series impacted in the short term. There may be, we all have to live with that and remember that we all are pirates. At some point the breech will be filled.

magicbulletgirl
April 16, 2010, 06:54 PM
FYI Kaiten, the current rate for magazines where I am is actually between $5 and $10. It's not a straight conversion between Yen and Dollars when they price them here in the States. I don't know how expensive they are in European countries.

Ilcm26
April 16, 2010, 07:24 PM
The thing that worries me the most is to find a new site as good as Raw Paradise to donwload RAWs from several magazines....

Obviously the bigger and most famous series wont be affected by this, but the problem lies with the not so popular series, the Raws may cease to exist...

Dive
April 16, 2010, 07:50 PM
It's like with music. If you don't hear a song/artist for free from a radio or download it, what are the chances that you will go buy the album from the music shop without having previously heard any of the songs ?

Want to know the difference between scanlations and radio playing? The artist and label get money if the song is played on the radio. It's called royalties. With scans, an artist gets absolutely nothing, and neither does the company.

Shueisha is a business through and through. They're here to make money. If they can't do that, measures have to be taken. If they don't, your favorite manga might get cut due to budget cuts. They might make the series take a week off in between, so you're only getting half the chapters per year.

The best solution is to just buy the actual manga volumes. Do not use the "But I can't read Japanese!" excuse. In America, we expect others to understand our language so they can understand what's going on within our culture. Why should this be any different? You can benefit from learning a second language too. Not only can you say that you know a second language and impress others, but it also looks awesome on a resume. So, not only are you supporting your favorite artist, but you're also making yourself more marketable. That's a win-win in my books.


well he'll be ruining his fan base as well , man what is this guys damage right now , one thing after another , why dont he just draw and write one piece quitely .

Why? If I were a manga artist, I'd be flattered if I had a rather large fan base. But I'd be upset if only 60% of that fan base actually payed for my work. A large fan base does nothing if they won't support my work. This is Oda's job. If you don't support his work, he doesn't get money. His salary is based on sales from his manga (among other things, so it's rather unfair to use Oda as an example for this). You don't support his releases, he gets a smaller paycheck.

Negative Syndicate
April 16, 2010, 08:16 PM
The best solution is to just buy the actual manga volumes. Do not use the "But I can't read Japanese!" excuse. In America, we expect others to understand our language so they can understand what's going on within our culture. Why should this be any different? You can benefit from learning a second language too. Not only can you say that you know a second language and impress others, but it also looks awesome on a resume. So, not only are you supporting your favorite artist, but you're also making yourself more marketable. That's a win-win in my books.


I think the problem is not just about language barriers, but the cost of magazine and volume. Like one volume cost about $12.00, and I'm reading almost every series in Jump, so if buy every volumes, it'll cost me about at least $60.00. This is too much for average students, like myself (and the main target is teenage boys).

If I lived in Japan, I'll buy every magazines and volumes to support other mangakas, plus the cost is much cheaper in Japan.

Schabrak
April 16, 2010, 08:29 PM
People here say to import Japanese magazines and volumes, but they forget that there's a lot of people who can't read Japanese, like me.
Where it gets tricky, everybody wants to be politicall correct.
Is there a law that states, that a company has to provide every human on earth with translations for every language for a book? Got over yourself, but it's called free market economy capitalism for a reason. It's very likely that the small ones will never be brought over the big pond, as they aren't profitable. Is it your right to ask them for doing it anyway? Yes. Is it their choice to follow your inquiry? Yes. If they decide to not do so, is it your right to steal it? Nooooo.

As it's said, Shueisha most probably just aims at the Raw providers. It might have never come to this, if the raws where at least posted in the week of the release or a week later. Damn those attention seekers. The biggest problem is, that people won't read the whole 500 pages, just the big 3-5 and in so are harming the smaller mangaka getting any hope to rise. Economical viewed it's harming the tankobon sales. Saying that One Piece sold well, those should be ashamed of themself! That's like saying, that illegal downloads of movies aren't harming the film making industry, by saying, that Avatar or Dark Knights sold well.


FYI Kaiten, the current rate for magazines where I am is actually between $5 and $10. It's not a straight conversion between Yen and Dollars when they price them here in the States. I don't know how expensive they are in European countries.Imported ones or the englisch versions of Shonen Jump etc? Sadly the german version was cancled, due to the idiotic fact of releasing it only once a month. The shojo version is still up and running. :D Tankobon, normal manga cost mostly 6,50€ here, most did only 5€ some years ago. Some cost up to 10, 14, 20... damn Tokyo pop for stealing money. Translations can not cost so much. doeh


The thing that worries me the most is to find a new site as good as Raw Paradise to donwload RAWs from several magazines....

Obviously the bigger and most famous series wont be affected by this, but the problem lies with the not so popular series, the Raws may cease to exist...
Raw Paradise wasn't up for such a long time, so you can't be depending on them so much. It was a privilege to get them not a something taken for granted.

Here is a fact of how much it's harming the japanese industry. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/raw-paradise.com Jap rank 383 for a site providing illegal content with 82.5% of the total viewers being japanese.


I think the problem is not just about language barriers, but the cost of magazine and volume. Like one volume cost about $12.00, and I'm reading almost every series in Jump, so if buy every volumes, it'll cost me about at least $60.00. This is too much for average students, like myself (and the main target is teenage boys).

If I lived in Japan, I'll buy every magazines and volumes to support other mangakas, plus the cost is much cheaper in Japan.
No you would not. Stop lying. If 60 is to much, you would never be able to buy every tankobon and magazine. The main target of a Weekly Shounen Jump released in japan is a japanese teenage boy, not you. Wait till it get's cheaper or buy it used, like with DVDs, clothes, games, computers, cars and houses. It's your choice to buy them anyway, if you don't got the money, not their problem. Excuses to steal are infinitive. hehe


P.S.: I would be sad too, if the possibitliy to read the Manga asap would be gone, but that's how economy works. Everyone wants to get the paycheck they deserve. Am no saint myself, but who is? You can hate me now. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09sC-ovnt-c)

Kaiten
April 16, 2010, 08:38 PM
FYI Kaiten, the current rate for magazines where I am is actually between $5 and $10. It's not a straight conversion between Yen and Dollars when they price them here in the States. I don't know how expensive they are in European countries.

Purchasing magazines internationally can get very expensive, eni brought that up too. I was referring more to domestic prices in Japan. Sheuisha seems to be trying to stop them from coming to MH or RP and reading raws instead of paying. I'm not sure Shueisha is considering the impact of raws/scanlations on sales of import magazines. Scanlations may impact sales of licensed manga, they may promote sales. So far, as I'm sure you know, U.S. publishers have mostly turned a blind eye to the scanlation scene. Shogakukan has even made some series available free online.

Jaymie
April 16, 2010, 08:40 PM
I read scanlations, but I'm all for manga companies doing all they can to shut scanlation sites down. It's sort of hypocritical, but I do buy the volumes for all of the series that I'm following. I'm just an impatient fan who wants a little sneak peak at the volume that they're going to buy in the future.

If manga companies started something to cater to fans who want that little "sneak peak", it would probably be enough to counter scanlations. Look at Rin-Ne - that series hasn't been seriously scanlated since the first handful of chapters. Viz successfully warded off scanlators by simultaneously releasing it, and I commend them for it.

unok-kun
April 16, 2010, 08:43 PM
Want to know the difference between scanlations and radio playing? The artist and label get money if the song is played on the radio. It's called royalties. With scans, an artist gets absolutely nothing, and neither does the company.

You're getting the metaphor wrong. People recording from the radio are the same as scanlators: the writer/singer gets the money once because the radio / raw scanner pays for it once, then someone distributes it for free (semi-)illegally.

Schabrak
April 16, 2010, 08:58 PM
You're getting the metaphor wrong. People recording from the radio are the same as scanlators: the writer/singer gets the money once because the radio / raw scanner pays for it once, then someone distributes it for free (semi-)illegally.
Nah that's not right. The way ScratchmenApoo wrote it, he meant what Dive had answered to and distoring the truth isn't a nice thing to do. .D If people don't get a sneak peak through the radio, they mostly, will never get interested into it. When somebody owns a recording, damage is allready done and nobody will buy the single. Unlike the magazine, artists make much money from singles too, not just albums. And how are radios distributing it illegal? If they did, they would be charged pretty fast.

magicbulletgirl
April 16, 2010, 09:08 PM
@Kaiten: If your point mentioning the conversion was to show how cheap they are for people in Japan, point made.
What clearly bothered Shueisha was that chapters came out online before the magazine's street date and that directly cuts into profits, how little they are, for the magazine.

@Schabrak: I was talking about JP magazines. I know from contacts in Germany shops do carry them.

Raws, not scanlations so much, are the issue at hand here. I see no reason why they can't continue, with discretion.

ca12nag3
April 16, 2010, 09:10 PM
Tbh i think whats happening to the music industry and as well the writing industry is the same thing. And they cant stop it, this is just some spastic way of trying to slow the proces down but eventualy theyll have to deal with it and make their money on another route.
Fans of music listen to the radio for free just like reading manga online for free. When people like the artist they buy the albums, or the volumes when it comes to manga. Go to concerts and for manga conventions, realy thats what is already happening.
The big companies simply stick their heads in the sand and are in denial of the digital age.
Time they wake up!

Somewhere down the road everything will stabalize into a new situation. The computer and the internet have already changed the world and will keep doing it unless we turn the internet into a dictatorship by the corporate.

Oh and about the idea of buying japanese magazines, sounds cool but i cant read m. And about the (you could learn japanese) as if i got the time for that? I speak 3 languages and unless i move somewhere that i have to learn a new one im sticking with the 3 i already got. And im no linguist so it doesnt come that easy.
If the magazines came out in english or my own language i might buy m sure i would. Yet i still buy the volumes that come out in english so i contribute my share to my favorite mangakas. I see the entire online release as a harmless form of windowshopping. Take a look and pick what i like. Then if its good ill buy it.

Schabrak
April 16, 2010, 09:40 PM
@Schabrak: I was talking about JP magazines. I know from contacts in Germany shops do carry them.
Yes they do, I will propably buy a subscription, it's only 100euro for six months, 125 for mail order - ca. 5,5 per magazine. 140 for everyone else in the EU.
http://www.ocs-de.com/popup/magazine-list.php?language=de

So if anybody from europe complains again, it's all excuses not reasons. A language barries is there to be broken.

Digital_Eon
April 16, 2010, 10:23 PM
Yes they do, I will propably buy a subscription, it's only 100euro for six months, 125 for mail order - ca. 5,5 per magazine. 140 for everyone else in the EU.
http://www.ocs-de.com/popup/magazine-list.php?language=de

So if anybody from europe complains again, it's all excuses not reasons. A language barries is there to be broken.

For WSJ?! That's insanely lucky. It costs hundreds of dollars for a full-year subscription everywhere I've seen, and not because of the volume cost. I was considering a subscription to Jump SQ: CDJapan lists the price per issue at 610 yen (reasonable), but it's nearly 1500 yen to ship that. And that's just twelve issues per year.

It's not that the magazines aren't priced reasonably, it's that the shipping is high. I often pay $10-$15 for the CHEAPEST shipping rate for a few CDs - they arrive in a month. Go any faster and it's over $20 easily. Even if your order didn't cost that much. And magazines might be even more due to their greater weight.

That's the biggest barrier to buying Japanese goods. (Manga, anyway. You want to buy a DVD? Have fun paying 4000+ yen for EACH ONE!)



No you would not. Stop lying. If 60 is to much, you would never be able to buy every tankobon and magazine. The main target of a Weekly Shounen Jump released in japan is a japanese teenage boy, not you. Wait till it get's cheaper or buy it used, like with DVDs, clothes, games, computers, cars and houses. It's your choice to buy them anyway, if you don't got the money, not their problem. Excuses to steal are infinitive. hehe


lol WSJ used/cheaper? Nice one. Good luck finding that. I used to buy copies from a store where that was the case - still $8 an issue. You'd need to go every week to get every issue and you'd be spending over $400 a year on WSJ alone. And, of course, that's assuming there's a place near you that has them.

I used to buy used WSJ weekly - eventually doing a two-hour round trip to a store weekly for them. I also had a subscription to the North American SJ. I stopped buying the former because I realized it was pointless and stupid, and the latter because I ran out of space from having years of WSJ stockpiled. It's a really high cost. Most people who read manga overseas can't afford it. Of course Japanese teenagers can, and good for them, but importing manga is not a solution for most overseas fans. I've tried.

On the other hand, buying tanks IS pretty easy and reasonable. They're about $7 on a site like YesAsia (which is as bad at pimping prices as Japan itself) and - at least for North America, but I think they have it for Europe, too - if you buy over a certain amount, the shipping is free. So just pick a few favourite series, save your money, and buy some every few months. You'll still be behind the most recent chapters, though...

Dive
April 16, 2010, 10:29 PM
I think the problem is not just about language barriers, but the cost of magazine and volume. Like one volume cost about $12.00, and I'm reading almost every series in Jump, so if buy every volumes, it'll cost me about at least $60.00. This is too much for average students, like myself (and the main target is teenage boys).

If I lived in Japan, I'll buy every magazines and volumes to support other mangakas, plus the cost is much cheaper in Japan.

I wasn't really talking about a subscription to the magazine. As someone pointed out, the magazines probably barely generate much revenue for them to care about subscriptions too much (money is money though...). And they are rather expensive at times. But, I meant the volume as a whole, not the magazine itself. Depending where you go online, you can get some pretty decent deals.

The forums have done a nice job rounding up websites (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21277) that you can import from. Some with good prices, some not so much.

But either way, one or the other is still support.


You're getting the metaphor wrong. People recording from the radio are the same as scanlators: the writer/singer gets the money once because the radio / raw scanner pays for it once, then someone distributes it for free (semi-)illegally.

People that record from the radio and distribute are the same as scanlators. Everything about it is illegal. Just because someone paid for it once does not mean that it's free to distribute.

However, a radio station is a legit source to hear music for "free." I use the term "free" loosely, because if anyone has ever taken an economics course, the first thing they will learn is that there is "no such thing as a free meal." Every time, not just once, a radio station plays a song, the artist gets their dues. The pay is not very high at all. I doubt it exceeds 10 cents per play. But if you have some hit single, like...oh I don't know. Hey Ya! or something, and its popularity is spread across the nation, you're looking into some very impressive cash.

Fox666
April 16, 2010, 11:28 PM
;1884015']Translation credits to cmertb

To all our readers
There are now many people unjustly posting copies of manga on the internet. These unjust copies are inconsistent with mangakas' feelings. They are also distorting the authors' intentions of "I want the work to be read this way". The actions of posting these unjust copies on the net, into which the mangakas have poured their hearts, are not only hurting mangakas in real life but are also against the law, even if done in a light-hearted manner. Every time we discover such "unjust copies", we talk to the mangaka and consider every possible countermeasure. But the number of inconsiderate people is great, and at present we cannot deal with all of them. We have a request for all our readers. The unjust internet copies are deeply hurting the manga culture, mangakas' rights, and even mangakas' souls. Please understand once again that all of that is against the law. Also, the mangakas and Shueisha will severely deal with any unjust copies found on the internet. We ask that our readers please continue to support us.

~Weekly Shounen Jump editorial departmentI don't really like the way they say "the mangaka this, the mangaka that".

Music industry does the same, caliming that the musicians are hurt. But on truth most of (while there is a minority with different contract) musicians ear on live shows, and eventually your heard of some musicians leaking out that they piracy helps them and damage is at the recording Industry.

I am not sure about how it works with manga industry. But am I wrong, or a mangaka doesn't earn a regular salary, not a sales percent?

Still I don't like how that sounds. If they are using a false appeal, while requesting a good conduct from fans, isn't that hypocrisy? It won't be different from videogame industry claiming that pirated CDs damage the console. It's a very strange way to request a good conduct, and I would expect that a good conduct would be the last thing it would bring...

(I may be wrong, as I say, I don't know very much of manga industry)

Negative Syndicate
April 16, 2010, 11:44 PM
I am not sure about how it works with manga industry. But am I wrong, or a mangaka doesn't earn a regular salary, not a sales percent?


Mangakas make money depend on the tank sales of their series. If tank sales are high, mangakas make lots of money, however if the tank sales are low, mangakas don't make much.

So illegal scanlations are very big deal for mangakas because tank sales will drop significantly.

Dive
April 17, 2010, 12:10 AM
On the other hand, buying tanks IS pretty easy and reasonable. They're about $7 on a site like YesAsia (which is as bad at pimping prices as Japan itself) and - at least for North America, but I think they have it for Europe, too - if you buy over a certain amount, the shipping is free. So just pick a few favourite series, save your money, and buy some every few months. You'll still be behind the most recent chapters, though...

This is actually a very good idea. If I were a large importer, I would do this.

Lets say that you're caught up on your favorite weekly manga. I'll use Sasuga as an example, since I've bought from there before.

There are about 4-6 volumes released a year for that series. WSJ is $7.50 for the volumes there. That's $30-$45 a year.

If you have a job, that's basically just setting aside $1 a week to afford all of those.

If you're not caught up with your series, you can save $2 a week and you can double what you buy at the end of year. So that's 8-12 volumes. That's $60-$90.

Really like the series? Save a bit more. Save $5 out of your paychecks for a year. That's 20-30 volumes in one order, $150-$225. Want a little more perspective on how many volumes that is? If you start now, within two years, you will own every Naruto volume released.

At Sasuga, spend $40 in one order, it's free shipping. But, if only if you live in the continental US. I understand that not everyone here is from the US, so you have to do a bit more investigating. Browse around the other websites mentioned (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21277) and see what shipping options are available for your country.

It really is not that bad if you place it into perspective like that, and if you are able to tuck away even $1 paycheck. Sometimes life happens, I know, and many of us might not have jobs, but if you can place things like the way I did, and you can get away with free shipping, it is definitely not bad in the end.

Negative Syndicate
April 17, 2010, 12:14 AM
Honestly I think there is nothing to stop from raw scanlations.

Lots of people should already aware about how serious about illegal download on music, live-action dramas, and movies. But, there are still lots illegal downloads out there, and this issue going to be same with mangas.

There are few raw-providing sites that are closing down, but I'll bet by next month there going to be another sites that just like Raw-Paradise.

In this point, all I can say is that if there are people who want to upload their raw scanlations, they should upload them at least one issue behind, rather than three or four days earlier from publishing date.

TrueAlchemist
April 17, 2010, 01:57 AM
This is weird. First, Shueisha did not send legal warning to each raw providing people, group, or specific sites. In the past, they sued some Japanese people who scan and distribute copies of WSJ before the magazine hit the street. The warning/request was aiming for Japanese customers who read on-line copies.


Suddenly, Raw-Paradise read the few words from WSJ,and they decide to stop operations. I think it is fine. If they want to respect the Shueisha publishing company, I think it is their choices.


I do not believe we have to worry too much. Raw-Paradise was not the First raw providing sites in the web. Sometime ago, they started to distribute copies of many other manga magazines that others did not. So, they became like a main hub for us, International manga fans/Otakus.


If they shutdown operations, that does not mean that people will not stop reading new release of Naruto, One piece, and Bleach next week. There are hundreds of Chinese manga and raw providing sites that are still active, and obviously does not give much attention on Shueisha's words.

I think One Piece, Naruto, Bleach will be on the net as fast as always next week. But, I do not know about other mangas in WSJ. If you are reading other mangas from WSJ and still looking for them. Well, I advise you guys to look around 2chan or similar places, and chinese sites. There is no free lunch guys. If you are not going to pay for them, at least invest some times to search for it. I am sure, there will another English raw sites sooner or later.

fanatik
April 17, 2010, 02:14 AM
Darnit. No good. For me at least (I'm in minority I know) as I'm used to reading manga I like in Japanese. And I don't want to have to resort to reading only scanlations/translations that not-so-rarely come in various degrees of crappiness.

And I buy manga I read in tanko, both in Japanese and in my language when volumes are out even though the translation in them mightily sucks and some of the series, like, 40 volumes behind.
But I also want to be up to date with these series, without having to wait for months (for monthly series this wait may be almost a year) for a tankoubon to be released - I'll buy it when it finally does, but I may die from curiousity before it does...

Kizo
April 17, 2010, 02:55 AM
Likening expectations for manga magazines to the music industry is inappropriate. While musicians have lost a tremendous source of income to piracy, they can still supplement what income they do receive via sales with live performances. Mangaka have no other such outlet, and as such, they are even more justified to speak out against piracy.

I'm not happy at this development, and I'm frustrated that Raw-Paradise shut down, but it's ignorant to criticize Shueisha (or any manga company) across the board for trying to protect one of the few sources of income they have. There was no positive way for this to happen, but I admire Shueisha for politely asking its audience to stop, rather than immediately resorting to C&D letters and lawsuits. The internet would have had a field day hating Shueisha for that (as has happened so many times in so many other piracy issues), though they still would have been within their rights to do so.

I wish Shueisha would offer an alternative for would-be international readers (i.e. subscription-based access to official translations released alongside each issue), but it's easy to understand that they'd focus on their own country first.

Finally, to those in a panic over this, if you seriously think this is "the end" of anything, you haven't been around this piracy business very long.

hatsuharupeace
April 17, 2010, 04:03 AM
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/04/17/shonen-jump-to-pirate-scum-this-is-war/

Don't think this was linked before, but a little article from Sankaku Complex, sheds a bit more light on the current situation in Japan.

Sensei 12
April 17, 2010, 05:00 AM
Ok, no more raw paradise :)
but there are still a lot of similar sites on the web...

Just a good word for the scanlations world:
In Italy, a lot of young readers send so many mails to italian publishing houses. What do they ask? Easy :D
They ask to bring into italian some japanese series like Toriko; Kuroshitsuji; Saint Young Men; Defense Devil; Psyren that are not still published in Italy, but these series are available in italian on the web. So, the italian readers demand all those series they have read on line yet.
Scanlations are a sort of advertising for new manga beginners :D

I've bought a lot of volumes thanks to scanlations.
If I hadn't read them online, I wouldn't have bought those volumes.

Maybe Shueisha is still pissed off by mangas on youtube, i think :D

StrangerAtaru
April 17, 2010, 05:55 AM
The problem is simply this: Jump/Shueisha doesn't quite know how to handle this scenario themselves. They think they should take the hard line because not only are we getting this stuff for "free", but the public they're trying to get to buy the magazine (the Japanese) isn't cause they can get it for "free"..and several days early I might add. (trust me: I even remember problems Kinokuniya here had of not releasing Jump until it was exactly Friday...even if they have a whole pile of Jump behind them, it can't be released until Friday. And this was an American Kinokuniya)

The easiest path would be to just have a web subscription service to get the whole magazine online, even if it's all in Japanese and you have to wait for a TL to put up a script and you may not be able to fuse them together until you can get them fused together in your country. (which is easier said than done with newer series, with older series like what I do, that may never happen)

jamjamstyle
April 17, 2010, 10:32 AM
This was posted on AP,


Originally Posted by Heiji-sama
En vrac :

1-J'ai arrêté il y a un mois 1/2, donc au niveau des "marques", je n'ai rien a voir.

2- La Kôdansha, fait la chasse au scan. Ils ont réussi avec Manga Helpers, mais pas avec Rena-chan. J'étais aussi sur leurs liste, donc j'ai préféré arrêté. La Kôdansha, est en train vraiment de prévoir de trucs. Ils ont en tête par exemple le site Fox Manha pour commencer.

3- La Shûeisha annonce dans le Jump (2 000 000 Vendu par semaine) qu'ils n'acceptent plus la piraterie, et qu'ils vont prendre de grande mesures. Donc bon je comprends la réaction de Raw-Paradise. Surtout que cette intervention de la Shûeisha va être rapporté sur différent sites et support avec la parution du Jump Lundi. De plus il préparerait quelque chose cet été.

Donc petit à petit chaque éditeur commence à prendre en considération le piratage des chapitres. Toutes les bonne choses ont une fin.

On ne veut plus prendre de risques et passé à autre choses. Et puis bon il reste Manga Helpers, les p2p jap, les indépendant, bref il y aura toujours des gens qui scanneront je pense.

Bref c'est la fin de Raw-Paradise mais la vie continue.

Edit : Je ne sais pas si ça accélérer les choses pour la Shûeisha, mais depuis quelque temps des gens (idiot ?) vont sur le Twitter de Kubo (auteur de Bleach) et le félicite, ou commente un chapitre, alors que le Jump n'est pas encore sortit.

translation by Kirjava:


1. I stopped scanning a month and a half ago, so I had nothing to do with the watermarks.

2. Kodansha started cracking down on scans. They succeeded with MangaHelpers, but not with Rena-chan. I was also on their list so I decided to stop. Kodansha is already planning something. They are thinking of targeting Fox Manha [I think he meant MangaFox perhaps?] for starters.

3. Shueisha announced in Weekly Shonen Jump that they will no longer accept piracy, and they're going to take serious measures to stop it. So I understand Raw-Paradise's reaction. Especially since Shueisha's intervention will be reported on [or affect] many other websites. They/it [not sure who he means by this] would've planned something for the summer. [???]

Little by little, each publisher is starting to seriously take the piracy issue into account. All good things must come to an end.

We no longer want to take any risks and are moving on. And anyway, there's still MangaHelpers, the Japanese p2p programs, the independent/private raw providers... there will always be people scanning raws.

In short, it's the end of Raw-Paradise but life goes on.

Edit: I don't know if this sped up things for Shueisha, but for some time now, some (stupid?) people have been going to Kubo's (mangaka of Bleach) Twitter to comment on chapters before Jump is even released in Japan.

Negative Syndicate
April 17, 2010, 12:22 PM
Is that means is MangaHelpers affect on pirate prevention too? MH is big site, so I think Japanese publishers should know this website.

Also, I heard that Raw-Paradise had 90-95% of their traffic from Japan. What is a traffic on Japan for MangaHelpers?

Charlie
April 17, 2010, 12:29 PM
At worst case scenario scans and raws become delayed a-bit or low key. What's there to stop spoilers or chapter scripts? IMHO - nothing.

matrixik
April 17, 2010, 03:30 PM
13.04.2010 U.S. Government Recognizes Benefits of Piracy (http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-government-recognizes-benefits-of-piracy-100413/)

And Paulo Coelho from Wikipedia:


In total, Coelho has sold more than 100 million books in over 150 countries worldwide, and his works have been translated into 67 languages. He is the all-time bestselling Portuguese language author.

File Sharing

Paulo Coelho is a strong advocate of spreading his books through peer-to-peer file sharing networks. A fan posted a Russian translation of one of his novels online. Sales of his book jumped from 3,000 to one million in three years, with no additional promotion or publicity from his publishers. Coelho took to pirating his own books on Pirate Coelho which provides free translations of many of his books. He was caught by the head of HarperCollins, Jane Friedman, who noticed that one of the unauthorized versions Coelho linked to had notes from his own manuscript. The two reached a compromise: each month a new novel can be read for free on the publisher's website.


From his site:

Pirate Coelho is a site that was hosted somewhere, with a collection of my texts in P2P sites. It was not me who put it there, but being adept of free contents, I asked the original site to put this URL here. I am reproducing here what I found in the Web as for Aug 2008. I am just facilitating.

RULES OF THE GAME

A] I don’t own the copyrights of the translations.

B] I the case that you download a book and like it, I would suggest you to buy the book, so we can tell to the industry that sharing contents is not life threatening to the book business.

C] You can do a relevant service to your community, if you like the book. You can print and handle FOR FREE to a local library in a small town, to a hospital, to a prison. The intention of Pirate Coelho (as well as my free web books) is first and foremost share thoughts with people who cannot afford buying books.

Thank you,
Paulo Coelho

cepillon
April 17, 2010, 04:18 PM
Also, I heard that Raw-Paradise had 90-95% of their traffic from Japan. What is a traffic on Japan for MangaHelpers?

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mangahelpers.com

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7994/sshot102.jpg

40% japan :darn.....

and mexico its in the list :o

DLord.Van.Buuren
April 17, 2010, 04:45 PM
Do you take drugs? Everyone, reading the scans and not buying the Manga, is a thief. And yeah I do buy them, when they are finally released.

And it is not only One Piece, Shueisha has to pay the Mangaka, everyone of them, and if those still small good ones, just getting started, fail because of this, it is their DAMN right to stop it.

The fanbase, that is stealing his work? Nobody wants such.

you just cant stop ,anyways thanks for reminding us , what i said applies to before they are released .

Negative Syndicate
April 17, 2010, 04:56 PM
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mangahelpers.com

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7994/sshot102.jpg

40% japan :darn.....

and mexico its in the list :o

The number is pretty big, plus Raw-Paradise is gone, the number might going to increase soon.

xi0
April 17, 2010, 05:08 PM
MangaHelpers was not started as a way to host raws for the Japanese visitors to consume. It was to facilitate a way for fast, accurate translations for the series to the international community. Traffic from Japan having such a large share at Raw-Paradise and MangaHelpers is just a byproduct of hosting these raws and letting the word spread.

jamjamstyle
April 17, 2010, 07:09 PM
From Kubo's twitter


なんか外国から「BLEACH400話おめでとうございます!」みたいなコメントが大量に来てて、最初ちょっとお気に入りに入れちゃったんだけど、よく考えたらまだ400話の載ったジャンプって発売してないんだよね。祝う気持ちはありがたいけど、どうしたもんだか。


I received a lot of comments that appeared to be congratulating me on the release of the 400th chapter. The comment's were placed in my favourite list, but then i realized that chapter 400 yet had to be released in the Jump. I'm glad that people are being appreciative and all but, seriously?

xi0
April 17, 2010, 07:13 PM
Doubtful, sites like Raw-Paradise are obviously well known in Japan already. The Chinese scanlation scene has existed just as long or even longer than the English one and they've always been super early. I'm sure Shueisha was already well aware of early leaks of raws. People have been arrested in Japan for scanning raws even.

BBB Banana
April 17, 2010, 07:14 PM
I received a lot of comments that appeared to be congratulating me on the release of the 400th chapter. The comment's were placed in my favourite list, but then i realized that chapter 400 yet had to be released in the Jump. I'm glad that people are being appreciative and all but, seriously?



Seriously ?? :facepalm

Because of stuff like that all this is happening.

They put in danger the people of raw paradise by doing that. They could be arested.


Maybe this is what they meant by hurting mangakas' feelings.

jamjamstyle
April 17, 2010, 07:25 PM
Doubtful, sites like Raw-Paradise are obviously well known in Japan already. The Chinese scanlation scene has existed just as long or even longer than the English one and they've always been super early. I'm sure Shueisha was already well aware of early leaks of raws. People have been arrested in Japan for scanning raws even.

I cannot disagree here BUT at the same time you should consider that there was no large scale announcement this time in the Jump. There was only that little panel where they still "ask" to stop the piracy. It seems to me like Kubo might've been the trigger for Shueisha's decision to take harsher measures against illigal scans because he's clearly a respected Mangaka in the Jump with much influence and those twitter comments despite knowing what's going on, might've pissed off the editorial department of the Jump.

fxu
April 17, 2010, 08:11 PM
From Kubo's twitter

I received a lot of comments that appeared to be congratulating me on the release of the 400th chapter. The comment's were placed in my favourite list, but then i realized that chapter 400 yet had to be released in the Jump. I'm glad that people are being appreciative and all but, seriously?

HAHAHAHA. Oh my goodness. That is fucking hilarious.

That "seriously?" is the icing on the cake.


It was gonna happen sooner or later. Somebody else will start a new site, perhaps even go "underground" (irc) for a while till things calm down.

magicbulletgirl
April 17, 2010, 08:14 PM
That reply to the comments is akin to Rowling's when people got a hold of Deathly Hallows before it's official release.
I'm sure Kubo isn't opposed to people abroad knowing and reading his work, it's just clearly disrespectful when pirated releases are before the street date, and thus cutting into the official release in the country of origin, in this case Japan.

cepillon
April 17, 2010, 08:53 PM
From Kubo's twitter





This appears to be the cause of everything if you ask me....

yeah... i dont know what the poster was thinking... is like a bad joke...
this can be the root of the problem...

like i say in my previous post... if the raw-providers upload the raws "TWO DAYS" Later that the mangazine out...this can be a good way to resolve this problem...

But xD... there is a "EARLY" release in ENG :eyeroll

StrangerAtaru
April 17, 2010, 09:40 PM
If this has to do with Kubo...well that wouldn't have been known if it weren't for the Nick Simmons bullcrap, leading to people finding out about Kubo's twitter and commenting before the chapter is officially released in Japan. The dominos have fallen and it's a bit late now to try and stop it sadly now that they're on to the raw situation.

jamjamstyle
April 17, 2010, 09:53 PM
Try to guess one of those guys who were commenting on Kubo's twitter....

From Mangastream


A staffer got excited and tweeted a congratulations to Kubo on 400, before the chapter was released in Japan.

They did apologize.....


We should all try and be more respectful when tweeting to Tite Kubo, and we ourselves need to try and set a better example. Our apologies.

Fox666
April 17, 2010, 11:09 PM
If they take down Mangahelpers, I am going to burn all my manga and never buy a manga again.

Kaiten
April 17, 2010, 11:18 PM
As long as their are translators there will be mangahelpers. As xi0 said the site was founded for them. Hosting raws is merely a convenience, translators need something to translate. Allowing scanlation hosting was a natural outgrowth of translation and raw hosting. In the end our mission statement is to facilitate translations and assist in improving online translation.

Waveblade
April 18, 2010, 12:32 AM
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mangahelpers.com

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7994/sshot102.jpg

40% japan :darn.....

and mexico its in the list :o

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/raw-paradise.com

This would be another link to Raw Paradise (I only used the free.fr one)? Not 90-95% but still staggeringly high.

Jerek
April 18, 2010, 01:28 AM
i dont see why Shueisha just doesnt release the magazine online with a fee just like buying the magazine in store and if they want to help stop online translations and stuff translate the magazine and price it like $5 or so

zidane
April 18, 2010, 02:16 AM
You guys do realize that chapter 400 (of Bleach) was in the same JUMP issue as the discussed announcement? How can tweeting about that too early be the 'cause for it then?

Early JUMP issues are accesible to a lot of japanese, since they are being shipped up to a week before the official release date and some shop owners don't mind selling it early. I don't even know how shueisha plans to combat this problem though, after all they ship to the US and China too, and we all know how much the latter cares about copyrights.

The announcement sounds like whining to me. As long as nobody got a C/D, I don't see any reason to worry.

Schabrak
April 18, 2010, 02:48 AM
i dont see why Shueisha just doesnt release the magazine online with a fee just like buying the magazine in store and if they want to help stop online translations and stuff translate the magazine and price it like $5 or so
Because they have contracts all over the world with different distributors, simple as that. They would not stop printing the real copies a week earlier.

And how do you imagine this would help them? Even less would buy the magazine, as it would make it so much more easier to share those "legal" files illegaly in the internet. And secondly, we get the raws a half to a full week prior to release, so it wouldn't do anything to stop the providers from holding back, as who here would like to wait days, if there is a way to get it earlier?

Kasu
April 18, 2010, 06:06 AM
This is just sad but unfortunately I think they realize it has to come to this. They want to sell manga legally...yet sadly this is how things become popular. It's sort of a two-way street and somehow I just wish there was a way for this to be resolved.

A possible solution to this would be more online extracts of whole chapters at the publisher's homepage and the establishment of an e-Book business.
Though I want comics as books in my shelf, I also want to know if these books are worth being in my shelf.
If I had the ability to buy 1 or 2 chapters for a small price just like music at iTunes or read 1 or more chapters online for free at the publisher's website, I'd know it.

Another thing they have to notice is that scanlations can lead to a comic being licensed in another country. Imho, they somehow have to find a way to maybe even work together with scanlators.

The problem with the magazine scans afaik is that they're afraid everyone gets the scans just out of the magazine, reads it all and does not buy the comic book when it's been published. They don't make benefit out of selling magazines (on the other hand i also don't know how they make benefit out of tankobon sales. If you compare tankobon prices in Japan (~400¥) to those of Tankobons published in Germany (~6.50€ mostly) or the USA (~10$), they're really low. In fact, for me it's almost cheaper to import my favourite manga from Japan instead of buying the German or English release, when I buy larger amounts - I paid about 40€ for the first 6 Volumes of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, which I imported. If I had bought the English translation, it'd been ~45€)



Imported ones or the englisch versions of Shonen Jump etc? Sadly the german version was cancled, due to the idiotic fact of releasing it only once a month. The shojo version is still up and running.
BANZAI! was canceled due to Tokyopop making a deal with Shueisha. Tokyopop is the only German publisher to license new series coming from shueisha (That of course didn't affect series like One Piece or Naruto because they were already running before Tokyopop Germany established, but for example is the reason for new TANEMURA Arina series being published by Tokyopop and not by EMA like they were before)
DAISUKI is based on Hana to Yume and LaLa, which are published by Hakusensha.
Oh and because it was you who gave the OCS-Link: have you (or anyone else) ever ordered tankobon there? How expensive are they? Because they give only shipping costs on their site and not the price for the books themselves.

By the way: How are Mangaka paid in Japan? Like, based on what? I know that comic authors here in Germany are paid by page and get a small amount out of book sales (like book authors, too - book authors are in fact the people to gain the smallest amount out of book sales, compared to stores, distributors for stores and the publisher)

Oh and how DO some people get raws before the magazine is released? Are magazines shipped earlier to subscribers or are there moles at publishers or distributors...?

sachi-chan
April 18, 2010, 09:21 AM
Damn. In my country there are only a few mangas available, if I want to read any I can only count on scans. If they ever appeared in my country I'd buy them, I've already bought some that way (I mean after reading them online). And I know its' not just Poland, it's about many countries. I've always known, that it's against the law, but still, am I to forget about mangas for good? That's just too sad. I agree that they should sell them on the net, I'd be first to buy them!

benelori
April 18, 2010, 10:18 AM
I think the situation with MH will be that in the end the raw scans will be removed...if it comes to something drastic like that...but since spoilers are available, and scanlators and translators exist online manga will never stop to exist...
I think the aim of that notice were the raw scans available on the net...
This whole situation reminds me of the time when Dattebayo dropped Naruto Shippuden, in favor of Viz...I feel that in the end, the raw will be available for money online, but like people posting the Raws for free will always appear...
The fanbase is just too large in order to be able to cover everything

Usagi
April 18, 2010, 11:13 AM
I know your feelings, sachi-chan! ;) In the letter was also question of Mangakas feelings, but I'm sure that the REAL fans will buy the volumes of their favourite manga, if the legal translation will be published in their country/language. But those real fans wouldn't have chance to 'born' if there wasn't an illegal translation.

eni
April 18, 2010, 11:41 AM
Heh, the comment about ...


Mangakas feelings

... in the magazine with the hardest business filter on the market, is a little sarcastic. No newbie series in Jump stands a chance of being continued when it's not bringing in enough for Shueisha after a strict timetable. Series get koened* when their popularity drops under 'Jump standards' which are a lot higher than in any other magazine. Popular Mangaka said before that they'd ended their series long ago but were asked to continue milking it out.

Then going and whining with "but but... think about the feelings..." is - by all respect - hilarous and soley based on the business view of feelings = payment. Seeing the reactions on Jump series cancelations in this forum alone shows how much feeling fans have for the mangaka. Yes, it doesn't fill the mangaka's pockets but there's little chance that they will ever be ble to release these series in any other country. Who's licensing halfdone series?

I remember that users here bought the Double Arts volumes from Japan after falling in love with the scanlated series. Some, like me, even without being able to read them JUST to support the mangaka who was on the edge of cancelation in Jump. And they, AFAIK, bought the last volume too, besides the forced end of the series.

Maybe a paid online viewer with optional english translations is the better alternative to a paper-wasting mag. Economy-wise, they should really really think about it.



*koened = cancelled, named after our shounen mod Koenosaki who had a scary series of cancelation following him whenever he picked up and liked a series :smile-big

Estranho
April 18, 2010, 11:46 AM
Neil Gaiman was asked a few time ago about people who download his comics.
I couldn't find the original video, only this one with Portuguese subtitles, but anyone who understands English can take it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3odgel4zU6s

Bucek
April 18, 2010, 11:48 AM
Let me express my feelings on this announcement. As for the starter, I'd like to calm down the entirety of fans reading this very thread. It's not going to stop scanning magazines and releasing scanlations. The announcement made on Weekly Shonen Jump's Issue #20 was aimed at the Japanese recipients who were buying the magazines for the sole reason of scanning them, which is a mindless idea when you take into consideration the fact that the magazine itself costs less than 2€ ($2,7) and the readers in the japanese bookstores are allowed to read an entire magazine without paying for it. Funny to see Shueisha on their knees singing a swansong hoping that'll make any improvement. In fact, it won't. Not until they find a good way do distrubute the manga in a digital form like iTunes does with music. Too bad Raw-Paradise thought too deeply about it.

Kaiten
April 18, 2010, 11:57 AM
I remember that users here bought the Double Arts volumes from Japan after falling in love with the scanlated series. Some, like me, even without being able to read them JUST to support the mangaka who was on the edge of cancelation in Jump. And they, AFAIK, bought the last volume too, besides the forced end of the series.

Maybe a paid online viewer with optional english translations is the better alternative to a paper-wasting mag. Economy-wise, they should really really think about it.



*koened = cancelled, named after our shounen mod Koenosaki who had a scary series of cancelation following him whenever he picked up and liked a series :smile-big

Double Arts was heartbreaking. thanks for reminding me :crying

Shogakukan and Square/Enix (as well as some smaller publishers) are experimenting with free online anthologies. The former even moves canceled series from Shonen Sunday to Club Sunday to avoid rushed endings. Web manga has met with some success; Hetalia was originally online only. Will switching to an online model stop piracy? I doubt it. If it can be free it will be. There will always be insiders leaking manga early. With magazines sales as dismal as they are something new needs to be done. I say move all manga online for free. Allow readers to pay a club fee getting them early release, let premium members get their manga viewable on phone and Ninitendo DS.

lol. koened :XD

¬Bol
April 18, 2010, 12:20 PM
What about raw-paradise's raws from now on? For example, where can I get the news raws which would be on raw-paradise tomorrow? (I'm particularly interested in Kodansha's raws, which can't be uploaded on MH)

eni
April 18, 2010, 12:34 PM
Will switching to an online model stop piracy? I doubt it. If it can be free it will be.
Of course, but a main complain simply is at the moment that alternatives for many readers are lacking. Especially for series not released outside of Japan at all or only in a handful of countries. And when they're licensed they're often crap. I'd NEVER in my lifetime buy the German BotD volumes because the whole thing is retouched.

The reason why Narutofan&Co earn so much is lazyness. I think a large part of leechers (me included) would prefer paying a legal subscription for a consistent medium quality online than going to several scanlator pages for several different qualities from several weird download ways.

Plus, as you say... it would allow lesser popular series to finish their story. There are too many people now who are afraid of buying new ongoing wsj series because the chances that they will end up incomplete is pretty high. That, of course, backfires with low sales which is a reason for cancelation...

Kasu
April 18, 2010, 02:35 PM
Too bad Raw-Paradise thought too deeply about it.
Well, if they simply thought too badly, why does there page redirect to shueisha's homepage then?
Did they do that because they wanted to or were they forced to (or did Shueisha force them to sell their domain to Shueisha)?


I'd NEVER in my lifetime buy the German BotD volumes because the whole thing is retouched.

I for myself decided I won't buy any new manga in German until they start to add translator's notes to their books like the American and French publishers do it.

[Cross]
April 18, 2010, 02:46 PM
Well, if they simply thought too badly, why does there page redirect to shueisha's homepage then?
Did they do that because they wanted to or were they forced to (or did Shueisha force them to sell their domain to Shueisha)?

Probably not the case, that's very unlikely. They probably did that as a show of good faith to Shueisha.

Akiyama
April 18, 2010, 03:14 PM
Shueisha is a (#%&$#@) <- place your word if choice here. Raw Paradise was on of the best sites on the web and very important to the scan community. Lots of series that I have read included the credits to them. It sucks to see them go but there's nothing we can do.

Online manga is not going to stop anytime soon. Be it raws that only the japanese care about or the various eng, etc. scans. This is a speed bump that occurs every now in then and it's not going to have a major effect. When Kodansha was removed from this site, the scan community still managed to release all our favorite mangas. So Shueisha's announcement doesn't affect me much at all in the long run.

Kaiten
April 18, 2010, 04:04 PM
Of course, but a main complain simply is at the moment that alternatives for many readers are lacking. Especially for series not released outside of Japan at all or only in a handful of countries. And when they're licensed they're often crap. I'd NEVER in my lifetime buy the German BotD volumes because the whole thing is retouched.

The reason why Narutofan&Co earn so much is lazyness. I think a large part of leechers (me included) would prefer paying a legal subscription for a consistent medium quality online than going to several scanlator pages for several different qualities from several weird download ways.

Plus, as you say... it would allow lesser popular series to finish their story. There are too many people now who are afraid of buying new ongoing wsj series because the chances that they will end up incomplete is pretty high. That, of course, backfires with low sales which is a reason for cancelation...

I have the opposite problem. A lot of series I like are ignored online but licensed and widely available in stores.

From my point of view there is an "easy" solution. I'm using WSJ as an example, it can be applied to any magazine:

Japan: Make the entire magazine available online for free when the print version goes on sale. Allow readers to purchase downloadable versions viewable on PSP, smart phones, or Nintendo DS for 240 yen per issue so online versions can be read at school or during commute. Single issue downloads could cost a little bit more than the print version. Offer a subscription service similar to magazine subscription, purchase six months worth of downloadable issues for the same price as subscribing to the magazine. Subscribers can get extra content; exclusive one shots, weighted votes in fan polls, etc. Series canceled in the magazine can continue to a reasonable conclusion through the free online version. Raise the price of tankobons a little to adjust for possible loss in magazine revenue.

International: Follow a similar plan VIZ is using for IKKI and Shonen Sunday. Make every series in the magazine available. Rush release chapters of the big 3 so that they come out at the same time worldwide as they do in Japan. For unlicensed series don't try and catch up but release a back chapter with every issue. Use online Jump as a promotional tool; new series can be promoted without ever leaving Shueisha's web portal. Considering the early chapters of new series are already being featured in English, online for free it's not that far fetched an idea. Unlicensed series that get enough views would automatically be licensed.

Ilcm26
April 18, 2010, 05:00 PM
I have the same worries as ¬Bol, I don't know where to find the Kodansha RAWs, since they cant be uploaded in Mangahelpers and Raw Paradise is gone....I'm quite worried since I read lots of Kodansha's mangas:s

Negative Syndicate
April 18, 2010, 05:13 PM
What about raw-paradise's raws from now on? For example, where can I get the news raws which would be on raw-paradise tomorrow? (I'm particularly interested in Kodansha's raws, which can't be uploaded on MH)


I have the same worries as ¬Bol, I don't know where to find the Kodansha RAWs, since they cant be uploaded in Mangahelpers and Raw Paradise is gone....I'm quite worried since I read lots of Kodansha's mangas:s

Same here, too. I read most of Jump SQ series, but since no more RP, I'm not sure where I can get them regularly now.

fdbgdg
April 18, 2010, 05:24 PM
Shueisha is a (#%&$#@) <- place your word if choice here. Raw Paradise was on of the best sites on the web and very important to the scan community. Lots of series that I have read included the credits to them. It sucks to see them go but there's nothing we can do.

Online manga is not going to stop anytime soon. Be it raws that only the japanese care about or the various eng, etc. scans. This is a speed bump that occurs every now in then and it's not going to have a major effect. When Kodansha was removed from this site, the scan community still managed to release all our favorite mangas. So Shueisha's announcement doesn't affect me much at all in the long run.

why exactly is shueisha a #%&$#@?

Akiyama
April 18, 2010, 05:28 PM
As a fan of manga, I don't care about the legal crap Shueisha is doing to stop raws being posted. They can have all the reasons they need for doing this but it's not good for me. So I have the right to my own opinion to call them whatever I want.

fdbgdg
April 18, 2010, 05:31 PM
As a fan of manga, I don't care about the legal crap Shueisha is doing to stop raws being posted. They can have all the reasons they need for doing this but it's not good for me. So I have the right to my own opinion to call them whatever I want.

what would be a good enough reason for you? if there is one.

oh wait.. i misread.. you didn't actually say "good enough" you just said "good." if you didn't mean that then:

why should shueisha suffer so it can be good for you?

Akiyama
April 18, 2010, 05:51 PM
what would be a good enough reason for you? if there is one.

oh wait.. i misread.. you didn't actually say "good enough" you just said "good." if you didn't mean that then:

why should shueisha suffer so it can be good for you?I don't care about Shueisha the company or any other publisher in Japan. All I care about is reading the manga I want to, either buying it in english since I can't read japanese or the use of scans. I'm looking out for me, so Shueisha can suffer all they want and I still don't care.
[hr]
I also said "not good" in case that helps because I don't want to be misunderstood.

fdbgdg
April 18, 2010, 05:53 PM
I don't care about Shueisha the company or any other publisher in Japan. All I care about is reading the manga I want to, either buying it in english since I can't read japanese or the use of scans. I'm looking out for me, so Shueisha can suffer all they want and I still don't care.

i don't get your reasoning: why would you not care about the publishers who publish something that you do care about? i mean if the publishers suffer i don't see how the manga they publish will not be indirectly affected too.

Akiyama
April 18, 2010, 05:56 PM
I don't think a series has ever ended because raws were available on the internet. I could be wrong but I'm unsure. If I like a manga enough, I will buy it, but I'm not doing it for the company, I'm doing it for the manga and author. Who cares what I think and don't make a big deal out of my posts, it's just my opinions.

Hyperworm
April 18, 2010, 07:07 PM
I would gladly pay for Weekly Shounen Jump but I have no reasonable way of doing so.

Since the magazine is so large and is released so frequently, importing it in a timely fashion is too expensive to be feasible. Shipping tankoubons is already expensive enough (like +>50% to the purchase price) and they're small and I buy them in bulk.

The shipping from bk1 (which charges Japan Post rates) for Weekly Shounen Jump (700g) on its own every week via SAL (gets to me in about 1 week [pretty late!] and is not insured or guaranteed) would cost at least 880 yen - the magazine costs 240 yen, so in total I'd be paying 1120 yen an issue, which is nearly 5 times as much as I would pay for the magazine in Japan. If I got hit with customs or the package got lost, the delay and cost would increase even further. This is just not an option!
(the actual real cost to me of all this has massively increased from a couple years ago as well, GBPJPY being at 140 now instead of well over 200)

Also, I don't have infinite funds. In fact I don't have much money at all at the minute. Paying this extortionate amount would just mean that more of my money goes to the shipping companies, and I would have less left over to buy tankoubons, where the money goes mostly to the manga companies and mangaka ._. So this would actually be a loss for them :/

In summary: At present I have no reasonable way of giving mangaka and publishers more money for WSJ.

Provide a digital version at a fair price and I'll pay for it :/ Otherwise, I might as well continue to read the scans, and hope people continue to upload them ._. Then I get to keep up-to-date with the manga, I get to follow speculation and participate in discussion, there's no chance of spoilers ruining something 30 chapters away, etc... all this is good for keeping my interest in the manga and ensuring I keep on buying the tankoubons ._.

Having said all that, there's no morally justifiable reason I can think of for breaking street date with the uploads. If everyone kept the scans to themselves at least until street date, and maybe even for a few days or a week after that, it would show we're not being totally unreasonable and it might even raise the sales of WSJ within Japan. ._. What are the chances of people doing that though.

Dive
April 18, 2010, 07:14 PM
I don't care about Shueisha the company or any other publisher in Japan. All I care about is reading the manga I want to, either buying it in english since I can't read japanese or the use of scans. I'm looking out for me, so Shueisha can suffer all they want and I still don't care.

You look out for yourself, and they'll look out for the hundreds and possibly thousands of employees that they have to give paychecks to.

Your favorite mangaka get paid by sales. If they don't have sales, they don't get the money they deserve. By reading scans and not supporting even the Japanese releases, they're not getting their dues. Scans take away money from not only the company, but your favorite mangaka.


If I like a manga enough, I will buy it, but I'm not doing it for the company, I'm doing it for the manga and author.

You're a big Liar Game fan, right? Have you even imported the manga? To support your favorite manga and its author?

Akiyama
April 18, 2010, 07:30 PM
Shueisha can do all they want but when there's a will, there's a way. It only makes it harder to distribute raws on the web and more people will hate them. Damage already done it my eyes, you can't stop the scaning community.

I'm never going to import a manga that's not in english. The art would be nice but if I can't read it, all it will become is a paper weight. If it gets released in english I'm going to buy, but I have no control when and if I will ever see the day. Scans are the only possible way to read my favorite manga.

Dive
April 18, 2010, 08:43 PM
No. It links directly to Shueisha's homepage.

http://www.shueisha.co.jp/

No difference what-so-ever in the page design.

Mushashi
April 18, 2010, 10:13 PM
lol if everytime kodanasha or shueisia or some other company posted cease and desist letters and asked for them not to be hosted. if just one scanlating group quit each time that happend therd be a million left. f raw paradise who used it anyway dont worry about it ive seen this before.

fdbgdg
April 18, 2010, 10:30 PM
scanlations will still come out, maybe a bit later than usual. as someone pointed out on the first page, what's the use of targeting scanlation groups when most people who read only scanlations won't be buying the magazines in the first place because of their inability to read japanese or a lack of magazine availability where they live. while japanese readers might have a harder time seeking out the raws that they want and might start buying the magazines again. which is what shueisha and other publishers are hoping for.

besides, it has never been a scanlation issue. unless thousands of downloads of raws are needed for a single scanlation to surface.

cloneofsnake
April 18, 2010, 10:42 PM
I'm one of those people who reads raw, and it has become rather hard to get them after raw-paradise is taken by shueisha.

I really wish shueisha, or some partners, would hurry up and join us in the 21st century, & release electronic subscriptions to One Piece and Naruto!

Can you imagine weekly manga on your iPad? Having your community built in, so u can chat with your friends right on the same page?!

Kravmaga
April 19, 2010, 12:54 AM
Shueisha can do all they want but when there's a will, there's a way. It only makes it harder to distribute raws on the web and more people will hate them. Damage already done it my eyes, you can't stop the scaning community.

I'm never going to import a manga that's not in english. The art would be nice but if I can't read it, all it will become is a paper weight. If it gets released in english I'm going to buy, but I have no control when and if I will ever see the day. Scans are the only possible way to read my favorite manga.

There is no question that they will not succeed in shutting down this practice entirely; if they could, they'd patent whatever they did and license it to all ip based businesses around the world... But that said, what if the author of your personal favorite series is axed? What if his/her publisher does the way of the dodo?
You may think of yourself as completely outside of their focus group as almost all of their sales are exclusively in japan and I agree that what little translated work they export here shows blatant lack of interest but that all flies in the face of the fact that a necessary portion of the means for you to keep up with those series outside of Japan competes with their sales directly.

Now I know better than to lecture or judge you and I mean this in the most harmless way but imho, I think the attitude you displayed in your past few posts shows what years of these RAWs flowing freely in a generation that grew up with the internet have created among the online audience, and that's a dodgy sense of entitlement to whatever has been suiting them before any change, as if they have some natural right of using all means they have available to maintain their daily dose of novelty. The mere fact that people outside of japan are showing discontent at their attempt to preserve their mean of sustenance in a way that will affect them only lightly shows something is wrong in this picture; just imagine how bad it's like in Japan... Like it or not, Shueisha or any other publisher or author don't owe us anything at all for following their work free online and building discussion communities around that.
They are in the business of selling magazines and those who uploaded publicly accessible raws have been biting into their turf no matter how you look at it.

Fwiw, I'm certain some of the same audience will eventually join us a step along the progression of fandom and spend a little of their sacred disposable income to support authors they love which is why I'm all for scanlations bringing mangas to those overseas who'd never be able to read them otherwise. Maybe one day, those publishing giants will do the right thing and update their obsolete distribution method and business model so we can all access our favorite series officially and discover new ones based on mood or taste all for a reasonable price, kinda like on netflix. Until then let me remind you we're lucky they didn't just release the hounds like most western companies would; heck I had cold sweat when I first read the news.

Ju-da-su
April 19, 2010, 01:19 AM
After reading 10 pages of comments, people managed to remind me the reason why I LOATHED Shueisha so much.

I mean, yeah, I personally would say, the publisher does have all their rights to do what they want. After all, it's us who are under the ground. But...Mangaka's feeling? LOL...Yeah right, you hypocrite...

How many of those mangaka's feeling did you pigs managed to STOMP ON these past few years? Certainly, it's common sense for a company to want to maximize their profit, but...using mangaka's feeling as an excuse to accuse us of what we're doing is just unacceptable IMO. All you guys actually care about is those papers in your pocket, just admit it. A few of those mangakas manage to do you that good, so you pretend that you actually care for them, when what you actually care about is those papers they made for you in return. Majority of them, you just kick them out without even caring about them. IMO, accepting the mangakas in the first place just to cancel their series is more disrespectful than this...distribution of the mangas over the internet for international viewers and it just so happened that some Japanese took them as well. Why? I might not know what the mangaka's life is like, but wouldn't it be harder for them to publish the same series in another magazine, some magazines that have very low chance of cancellation? Creating a plot isn't easy. I'm more than certain that mangakas of series that got cancelled, eg. Double Arts, Kagijin or even the original Shaman King, didn't plan for their mangas to end that way. It's just that, those people can't make you enough money, so you decided to trash them along the street. And now you're telling us to sympathize with the mangakas?? Stupid...

Meh, talk too much. Still the fact that I was a bit scared at first when they put Basara 3 in JSQ (was like "WTF?! WHY DON'T YOU COME IN MAOH OR SOMETHING!? D: "). Never like that publisher because of all the series they cancelled...-_-"

PS. For those looking for Kodansha's raw...seriously, go learn how to use mIRC...:S

eni
April 19, 2010, 01:36 AM
(I'm particularly interested in Kodansha's raws, which can't be uploaded on MH)

I have the same worries as ¬Bol, I don't know where to find the Kodansha RAWs, since they cant be uploaded in Mangahelpers and Raw Paradise is gone....I'm quite worried since I read lots of Kodansha's mangas:s

Same here, too. I read most of Jump SQ series, but since no more RP, I'm not sure where I can get them regularly now.
IRC.
[hr]

PS. For those looking for Kodansha's raw...seriously, go learn how to use mIRC...:S
Gah, left my window open too long. Sorry ;D

Well said, Ju. Exactly my thoughts on that 'feeling' comment :nod

M3J
April 19, 2010, 01:50 AM
What can be happened is that Japan as whole be blocked from the whole spoiler sites and etc while letting other countries be allowed to read the mangas. When/if the manga releases in its respective country, then yeah. Like, for Americans, Naruto volume will begin after Naruto met his dad and is facing Deva Pain. The scanlations are out right now after that, which is good. After the volume releases, scanlations that have to do with the chapters in the volume should be removed to encourage more people to buy the mangas.
Or, Team Medical Dragon. Entire scanlations can be online. But as it starts getting published, the chapters or the series can slowly start being removed from the public as a way to encourage sales.

I dunno. I for one, hate this idea. But I'd much rather mangakas not suffer because we're selfish. And the main reason I don't subscribe to WSJ is because Naruto is the only manga I'm interested in that appears in the magazine. No point paying for few mangas when I read only one. And it's like, $7.99 to buy a volume here, so yeeah. I'm cheap, at least when living with my parents.

BBB Banana
April 19, 2010, 07:54 AM
Just to let you know M3J WSJ volumes raised its price two or three months ago to 10 $

Volume 45 from Naruto costed me 8$ while 46 and 47 costed me 10$

Personally I don't see a reason for that since the number of pages is the same 1 $ would be ok but 2 $?

Kasu
April 19, 2010, 09:04 AM
IRC.


...
Yesterday, I googled for like two hours. I could not find any reference to any channel where such raws appear.
I think the main "problem" (though legally it's definitely good) is that those channels are not that well-known unless you're an insider to it and have known that one for ages.

eni
April 19, 2010, 09:21 AM
...
Yesterday, I googled for like two hours. I could not find any reference to any channel where such raws appear.
I think the main "problem" (though legally it's definitely good) is that those channels are not that well-known unless you're an insider to it and have known that one for ages.
Open your IRC client and connect to the ircHighway server. Open the channel list and use the search function for the term 'raw'. That gives you the channel in question in ~2 seconds.

There are more channels which won't appear in the search. Try different terms, make use of !list for private distributors and other commands or ask your way through. Pay attention to the individual channel rules and topic notes.

As Ju said, learn to use IRC and it won't be a problem. By using google you can find the channels too (I just tried with some logical search terms and got the channel webpage instantly) but you also need to understand that the http-web and IRC are different things and requiere different methods to get your fix. Google search doesn't replace actually using the IRC client.

jamjamstyle
April 19, 2010, 09:30 AM
This was posted yesterday on Sankaku.


“US Manga Sales Plunge 20% in 2009, Scanlation to Blame!”

Much of the blame for a 20% drop in North American manga sales is being pinned on scanlation.

The annual report originates from “pop culture” industry information peddlers ICv2.

Their white paper describes how manga sales in the US and Canada fell 20% in 2009, down to $140 million from $175 in 2008. In 2008 sales declined as well, dropping 17% from their all-time peak of $210 million in 2007, meaning the market declined in size by one third in from 2007-2009.

An excess of titles and the industry’s failure to successfully market josei manga to maturing fans of shoujo manga are cited as reasons for the decline, along with a decline in TV exposure “[keeping] hot new titles such as Rosario + Vampire from achieving the kind of success that previous Shonen Jump hits have enjoyed.”

However, the bulk of the blame appears to be reserved for scanlation and fansubs, the perennial publishing industry bugbears:



Another key factor in the slowing sales of manga is the presence of so many volumes of manga in translated form on the Internet.

Just as the anime market in the U.S. was gutted by fansubbed downloads available on the Net for free, manga is now facing its own crisis created by the availability of free unlicensed scanlations on the Web.

Manga readers lack the “collector mentality” of comic book fans and also tend to be both young and tech savvy.

The fact that manga is “long-form” entertainment, with many series running to dozens of volumes (Naruto Vol. 48 is due out in June), even taking into account the fact that manga is very attractively priced compared with traditional American graphic novels, it is very expensive to collect the entire series in paper.

Increasingly retailers who saw their once strong anime sales shrink away to nothing are telling ICv2 that manga readers are sampling new series online and only buying their favorite one or two series in printed form.
The almost total lack of digitally distributed manga capable of competing with such versions by now hardly needs mentioning – strong demand for convenient digital manga is apparently something publishers in both the US and Japan are desperate to ignore.

Oddly, the report completely fails to mention that there was a major global recession commencing in 2007 – apparently macroeconomic climate has no effect on manga sales worth mentioning, just like in Japan.



Scanlation is the way how the western culture got into Manga, so the statement is actually utter BS.

Zibi234
April 19, 2010, 09:49 AM
anyway by looking on this page http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/raw-paradise.com we can say that RP got f***d up by Japanese people.... who compared to rest of the word can buy those magazines in their nerby stores....... while rest of the world has not such possibility....

83% of rawparadise traffic were japanese people... so thx to that we are now left alone on ice.... offcourse few series like naruto,bleach,op are kinda safe since they have their own providers....(except belzeebub manga since I dont know where else it might be located [raw])

but im more worried with other series not from WSJ... (sekirei, negima, hayate no gotoku, amg, sora no otoshimono, rosario+vampire,kissxsis, ariantou... ect) since except raw-paradise I dont recall any usuall place where I cna find those raws.... im really worried for those series ;/

if I had a way to buy those magazines in my country I would buy it... but I have no such possibility... 95% of the series im following are not beign published in my country (I only saw naruto manga published but its way behind the currnet story flow...)


the other thing that is scary in the home country translations... is that durring translateing people change the orginal characters names... for some that sound like shit that destroy the whole climate of the manga >___<

offcourse there is shipping (importing it from japan) but still its 1week waiting (with 0 problems... if there are problems its 2+weeks) and the price is like 4-5x of the magazine price.... so its way tooo much (not mention that I only follow 2series in WSJ magazine so I would pay 4-5x of the price for something that I have no interest in)

so the best thing the publisher should do is create online chapter buying... so people from whole world would be able to buy chapters they want without any need to live in japan (there is 1series that I follow and that is beign released via interner... [Nyan koi] the author himself puts his chapters online... people cna watch it [not able to download it as raw for 2-3weeks after release] and later the chapter appear in paper volumes )


anyway without raws and scanlations I wouldnt be even aware that some manga series existed...... so normal human looks on few chapter and decides if he likes the series or not... no one will buy a cat in bag...

Ju-da-su
April 19, 2010, 10:04 AM
anyway by looking on this page http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/raw-paradise.com we can say that RP got f***d up by Japanese people.... who compared to rest of the word can buy those magazines in their nerby stores....... while rest of the world has not such possibility....

83% of rawparadise traffic were japanese people... so thx to that we are now left alone on ice.... offcourse few series like naruto,bleach,op are kinda safe since they have their own providers....(except belzeebub manga since I dont know where else it might be located [raw])

but im more worried with other series not from WSJ... (sekirei, negima, hayate no gotoku, amg, sora no otoshimono, rosario+vampire,kissxsis, ariantou... ect) since except raw-paradise I dont recall any usuall place where I cna find those raws.... im really worried for those series ;/

if I had a way to buy those magazines in my country I would buy it... but I have no such possibility... 95% of the series im following are not beign published in my country (I only saw naruto manga published but its way behind the currnet story flow...)


the other thing that is scary in the home country translations... is that durring translateing people change the orginal characters names... for some that sound like shit that destroy the whole climate of the manga >___<

offcourse there is shipping (importing it from japan) but still its 1week waiting (with 0 problems... if there are problems its 2+weeks) and the price is like 4-5x of the magazine price.... so its way tooo much (not mention that I only follow 2series in WSJ magazine so I would pay 4-5x of the price for something that I have no interest in)

so the best thing the publisher should do is create online chapter buying... so people from whole world would be able to buy chapters they want without any need to live in japan (there is 1series that I follow and that is beign released via interner... [Nyan koi] the author himself puts his chapters online... people cna watch it [not able to download it as raw for 2-3weeks after release] and later the chapter appear in paper volumes )

Not trying to make a fool of you or anything, but...people already know that RP is flooded with Japanese people WAY, WAY earlier in this thread. Someone already bought that up long ago...>_>"

Second, Beelzebub, huh? Know what? Vic's raw DOESN'T come from RP. He scanned it himself. If you can still say that you can't locate anywhere else where that series has been updated, while I just went to the manga page for Beelzebub HERE, in MH, to look it up, only to find out that Vic's raw was the only raw uploaded here for the most recent chapter, then yeah...better try harder in your search, huh? -_-"

Third, I don't read Negima or Hayate no Gotoku!, but one thing I can tell you; even though I don't follow those series, I still know where I can find the updated raws for those series. Again, GO LEARN HOW TO USE IRC AND SEARCH HARDER!! D<

Newkerzy
April 19, 2010, 10:16 AM
After reading 10 pages of comments, people managed to remind me the reason why I LOATHED Shueisha so much.

I mean, yeah, I personally would say, the publisher does have all their rights to do what they want. After all, it's us who are under the ground. But...Mangaka's feeling? LOL...Yeah right, you hypocrite...

How many of those mangaka's feeling did you pigs managed to STOMP ON these past few years? Certainly, it's common sense for a company to want to maximize their profit, but...using mangaka's feeling as an excuse to accuse us of what we're doing is just unacceptable IMO. All you guys actually care about is those papers in your pocket, just admit it. A few of those mangakas manage to do you that good, so you pretend that you actually care for them, when what you actually care about is those papers they made for you in return. Majority of them, you just kick them out without even caring about them. IMO, accepting the mangakas in the first place just to cancel their series is more disrespectful than this...distribution of the mangas over the internet for international viewers and it just so happened that some Japanese took them as well. Why? I might not know what the mangaka's life is like, but wouldn't it be harder for them to publish the same series in another magazine, some magazines that have very low chance of cancellation? Creating a plot isn't easy. I'm more than certain that mangakas of series that got cancelled, eg. Double Arts, Kagijin or even the original Shaman King, didn't plan for their mangas to end that way. It's just that, those people can't make you enough money, so you decided to trash them along the street. And now you're telling us to sympathize with the mangakas?? Stupid...

Meh, talk too much. Still the fact that I was a bit scared at first when they put Basara 3 in JSQ (was like "WTF?! WHY DON'T YOU COME IN MAOH OR SOMETHING!? D: "). Never like that publisher because of all the series they cancelled...-_-"

PS. For those looking for Kodansha's raw...seriously, go learn how to use mIRC...:S

I totally agree!!!:thumbs I've read Bakuman and thanks to you, I think the manga is nothing but criticism towards Jump itself. This is the only reason why FMA is epic is because it's NOT under Shueisha.

ocajavati
April 19, 2010, 11:42 AM
;1884015']Translation credits to cmertb

To all our readers
There are now many people unjustly posting copies of manga on the internet. These unjust copies are inconsistent with mangakas' feelings. They are also distorting the authors' intentions of "I want the work to be read this way". The actions of posting these unjust copies on the net, into which the mangakas have poured their hearts, are not only hurting mangakas in real life but are also against the law, even if done in a light-hearted manner. Every time we discover such "unjust copies", we talk to the mangaka and consider every possible countermeasure. But the number of inconsiderate people is great, and at present we cannot deal with all of them. We have a request for all our readers. The unjust internet copies are deeply hurting the manga culture, mangakas' rights, and even mangakas' souls. Please understand once again that all of that is against the law. Also, the mangakas and Shueisha will severely deal with any unjust copies found on the internet. We ask that our readers please continue to support us.

~Weekly Shounen Jump editorial department

I find their appeal rather... hilarious.

They just want to sell more copies, which is perfectly fine, but don't put it so high and mighty like it's all for the mangaka's sake.

kkck
April 19, 2010, 12:07 PM
If it wasn't for manga scanlations I would not even know what manga is. Where I am from they sell little to no manga, and if they do it is only the first volumes and never really follow through. In the long run, I doubt manga scanlations are gonna stop but if shueshia is serious about this we should probably hurry in reading and finishing the series we like since they might become a tad harder to fight.

wooticus
April 19, 2010, 12:22 PM
i'm the same opinion as most people here, i would love the possibility to buy such a great magazine like WSJ every week, but here in my country i could do nothing but wait for the volumes to be released.. but that's on horrible delay, the latest available volume for purchase is 41 i think, wasn't that about 20 months ago? moreover for the stuff that is available there is no promotion after all, you barely get them in online bookstores

SenninSage
April 19, 2010, 12:27 PM
Damn, this is disappointing. It's also very short sighted and unreasonable. They have any idea how much our ability to gain access to this stuff has helped the popularity of their industry not just in Japan, but worldwide?

The primary reason I now own an entire Naruto, part 1 manga book set behind me is because I've been able to learn more about it through the internet and follow it.

I stayed in japan for a short period of 8-10 months, I've spoken to people that have said, without question, the growing popular of this kind of stuff in America and other places is a real net positive for the industry.

M3J
April 19, 2010, 12:27 PM
Just to let you know M3J WSJ volumes raised its price two or three months ago to 10 $

Volume 45 from Naruto costed me 8$ while 46 and 47 costed me 10$

Personally I don't see a reason for that since the number of pages is the same 1 $ would be ok but 2 $?

I think it could be due to inflation/cost of translating and redrawing/retouching the manga getting higher. Mangaka might also demand more money for their work to appear in WSJ, especially due to online community scanlating everything they see. Even WSJ must feel the pain from scanlations.

I wonder what'd happen if their fanbase wasn't as young. The reason why comic books sell more than manga is because there aren't scans online, s'far as I know.

igosuki
April 19, 2010, 12:42 PM
So when Napster got closed, did the mp3 downloading and sharing stop ?
Think about it and stop whining .

Gats
April 19, 2010, 01:14 PM
I don't agree with you about what know the mangakas about their world fanbase. Each time I read an interview or a survey about what they think about "us", they always answered like they're still surprise that they are popular outside Japan or always said something that indicates their ignorance.

And yet, it's also possible that they really don't realize how popular they are, it's higly possible that they're underestimating it a lot. I feel sorry but it's not that surprising because they usually spend all their time at drawing, even more when I read here that Kishi probably doesn't even have a computer..... -_-'

I also read in newspaper that Japanese editors, due to their own culture, realized very very late how big are the scanlations etc. Now they do (dunno about mangaka...sometimes), but it's quite recent.

I think we are underestimating our favorite mangakas ignorance here.
[hr]

This was posted yesterday on Sankaku.




Scanlation is the way how the western culture got into Manga, so the statement is actually utter BS.

Depends which country. In France it came massively after the animes on television in the 80's/90's or even before I think. Internet was not so important during this time.
[hr]
Editors and Mangakas have their right to be worried, totally understandable. But hey, even if they're totally right, they can't stop scanlations, if they don't update their offer in order to make it online I would almost say they asked to be ruined. I'm sure that a lot of fans would love to pay in order to read it online week per week...but it would probably also means that foreigners editors will see their books sales dropping..it's part of the pressure against the online I guess.

I just hope that those foreign editors will adapt quickly to the internet, by offering a fast scanlation (not free of course) in their own language. Well I guess it won't be avoidable with the rise of Kindle and the Ipad etc.

edit : of course this kind of thing can't be done for all the manga, fast scanlation can only be done on the most popular ones, they don't have enough translators.

~FrienD~
April 19, 2010, 01:17 PM
wow it just turned into a big mess,. well since before this a lot of jap products stopped shipping. and like jap sites banning outsider ip, i admire their counter piracy actions, after all they're secluded themselves from the world and other neighboring countries and the result is their culture is well maintained amidst the technological advances. they might pull it successfully. now if only the world will have a wsj every week....

igosuki
April 19, 2010, 01:20 PM
Oh yeah, by the way having lived in Japan I can tell you that, even though they knew about the spreading of manga :
It's 100% sure that it's the posting on Kubo's twitter that did it.
The retards that did it broke a record of not doing it for more than 15 years of manga scanlation. I translated my first manga 12 years ago, and then we had already huge databases (just as big as what is now on MH in fact) already, but nobody would've done such a f****** stupid t hing.
[hr]

wow it just turned into a big mess,. well since before this a lot of jap products stopped shipping. and like jap sites banning outsider ip, i admire their counter piracy actions, after all they're secluded themselves from the world and other neighboring countries and the result is their culture is well maintained. they might pull it successfully. now if only the world will have a wsj....

If you think that every japanese person respects the law and obeys you are - so - wrong.
Back in Japan on the highway NOT ONE CAR respected speed limits. And yeah, it's relevant as to what is happening within Japan.

Oni_James
April 19, 2010, 01:23 PM
It's funny how they say "Obtain manga legally" and yet every country keeps giving different excuses for delaying more and more the mangas, even cancelling some ones, or receiving a really bad scanlation service. For example: In my country One Piece doesn't come with the SBS corner, instead we have some random Luffy and company pictures > >
Some mangas have been cancelled lately, most of series keep being delayed, or instead of becoming bimensual or even trimestral, they just cut them for a couple of years.

Some animes dub are that bad that they even change the meaning of the story to the point that One Piece's spanish dub was as confusing as to believe Arlong was a Shichibukai.

-Making Freezer say "You may control the thunder, but i control fire" when Namek is about to explode.
-Having Cell say he has a misile, or Trunks post Cell being "just really bad hurt"

-Even Goku not remembering what's a Genkidama xD In Buu's arc, Vegeta suggests of doing a Genkidama and he has to deal with amnesic goku yelling to him "A Genki-dama? What's that!!!???"

That's the quality Shueisha wants us to read and watch, ok then we'll stick with poorly translated mangas or poorly dubbed animes, instead of having their "high quality manga" as they like to say ;)
If they want to keep having fans outside Japan (which i suppose gives them at least <for saying something> as much money as whole Japan) they could try give mangas up-to-date the online way, and then we buy the mangas when they are out in our country.
I'd pay up to 30 € every month to read online the mangas I usually read for free and then buy them when they arrive here.

~FrienD~
April 19, 2010, 01:26 PM
It's funny how they say "Obtain manga legally" and yet every country keeps giving different excuses for delaying more and more the mangas, even cancelling some ones, or receiving a really bad scanlation service. For example: In my country One Piece doesn't come with the SBS corner, instead we have some random Luffy and company pictures > >
Some mangas have been cancelled lately, most of series keep being delayed, or instead of becoming bimensual or even trimestral, they just cut them for a couple of years.

Some animes dub are that bad that they even change the meaning of the story to the point that One Piece's spanish dub was as confusing as to believe Arlong was a Shichibukai.

-Making Freezer say "You may control the thunder, but i control fire" when Namek is about to explode.
-Having Cell say he has a misile, or Trunks post Cell being "just really bad hurt"

-Even Goku not remembering what's a Genkidama xD In Buu's arc, Vegeta suggests of doing a Genkidama and he has to deal with amnesic goku yelling to him "A Genki-dama? What's that!!!???"

That's the quality Shueisha wants us to read and watch, ok then we'll stick with poorly translated mangas or poorly dubbed animes, instead of having their "high quality manga" as they like to say ;)
well official releases always suck unless it has been tweaked by us fans

eni
April 19, 2010, 01:49 PM
Oh yeah, by the way having lived in Japan I can tell you that, even though they knew about the spreading of manga :
It's 100% sure that it's the posting on Kubo's twitter that did it.
The retards that did it broke a record of not doing it for more than 15 years of manga scanlation. I translated my first manga 12 years ago, and then we had already huge databases (just as big as what is now on MH in fact) already, but nobody would've done such a f****** stupid t hing.
There are scanlation groups nowadays who are in contact with the mangaka (e.g. Liquid Passion and Miyamoto Kano). This only works when people get in touch with the artists.

You can buy WSJ in a lot of western stores a few days ahead of the Japanese release date. In fact, some of our raw providers scanned the WSJ raws on Thursday/Friday because they got the magazine completely legally in their local stores at that day. These were not leaked mags from Japan.

So while the girl who tweeted to Kubo was a scanlator in this particular case, it's not at all unrealistic that it very well could have been someone who legally obtained the magazine and gave her congratz days ahead of the Japanese selling date for WSJ. She destroyed it in the moment where she said that it's on the internet, though >_>

ShiShi-O
April 19, 2010, 02:02 PM
Online scans are not a bad thing most people who buy manga like myself get to know series trough the internet and then buy actual copies. If it wasn't for scans the western fanbase would be even smaller.

Anyways is not like is gonna change anything It's the same as musicians asking for people to stop downloading music.

if it wasn't for fan-subs i wouldn't be a fan since the 80s

if it wasn't for untranslated comics and videos we wouldn't give a shit to buy the official merchandise, we wouldn't have spread it and there would be NO american/western market

that shuesia is uncontrollable, yes .. but it works in your favor

no offense to quoted poster, i am adding to your very true comment.

we did the advertising to open the american market.


they seem to not have done any thinking, we have pushed this manga like a music style, and the mainstream buys.

Estranho
April 19, 2010, 02:39 PM
Oh yeah, by the way having lived in Japan I can tell you that, even though they knew about the spreading of manga :
It's 100% sure that it's the posting on Kubo's twitter that did it.

How's that possible???
The message to Kubo on twitter was send this week, when the magazine was already printed with the warning of Shueisha!!

ruggia
April 19, 2010, 02:47 PM
How's that possible???
The message to Kubo on twitter was send this week, when the magazine was already printed with the warning of Shueisha!!

yeah, which brings up another interesting point: people tweeted him even though there is a clear warning about illegal online-scans at the back of the issue...:blink

they should have read the ToC page :facepalm

BBB Banana
April 19, 2010, 03:47 PM
How's that possible???
The message to Kubo on twitter was send this week, when the magazine was already printed with the warning of Shueisha!!

Maybe it was not because of that particular coment but maybe they tried to understand how the western coments were so frequent. And found the source of everythig.

¬Bol
April 19, 2010, 03:54 PM
@ Ju & Eni: will there be a new packlist on raw-distro for raw-paradise's raws?

R4n
April 19, 2010, 03:59 PM
There are scanlation groups nowadays who are in contact with the mangaka (e.g. Liquid Passion and Miyamoto Kano). This only works when people get in touch with the artists.


(i think am not adding anything useful to this thread... :oh)
If i may add something: Yamane Ayano keep in touch with her international fans through internet for quite a considerable amount of time ;)
P.S. the scanlation group that do Yamane's works stop all scanlation work by themself due to their respect to the mangaka. (well, bl manga market is quite niche, so i guess it is reasonable :amuse)

kkck
April 19, 2010, 04:07 PM
My country is so behind in anything concerning manga that I am pretty sure the latest volume on sale here for naruto is probably #3. Note that I am not from the USA as my profile would suggest-merely chose that one because I did not have an option to not reveal where I am from and it seemed the most generic here-.

Gats
April 19, 2010, 04:11 PM
Did Kubo answered to this unfortunate twitt commentary ?

jamjamstyle
April 19, 2010, 05:23 PM
Did Kubo answered to this unfortunate twitt commentary ?

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1885827&postcount=102

unok-kun
April 19, 2010, 05:25 PM
@ Ju & Eni: will there be a new packlist on raw-distro for raw-paradise's raws?
RP is completely independent from raw-distro, and I don't think Dofla will start putting up the raws there...

◆ T.D.A ◆
April 19, 2010, 05:39 PM
bless her, maybe she doesn't know we get it before japan do.

Hyperworm
April 19, 2010, 05:39 PM
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1885827&postcount=102It bears repeating that "congrats 400!" can not possibly be the cause since the warning was in the same issue as the 400th chapter. There's no reason to fixate on this particular tweet.

unok-kun
April 19, 2010, 05:49 PM
Someone said that the person who congratulated for the 400th chapter, being the warning in the same issue, should have been warned and not tweet it... Well, since she's a scanlator, most likely she just got the raws for the chapter (not for the rest of the magazine) and decided to congratulate, without knowing about the warning, since no raw provider at all scans the WHOLE magazine, let alone providers for groups who just scan the series that group is releasing.

jamjamstyle
April 19, 2010, 06:09 PM
It bears repeating that "congrats 400!" can not possibly be the cause since the warning was in the same issue as the 400th chapter. There's no reason to fixate on this particular tweet.

That's something i've understood due to some posts here. :amuse Just forgot to edit my reaction.

That aside, he hasn't responded regarding the issue anymore on his twitter.

dsr
April 20, 2010, 12:45 AM
Next month, don't buy Shueisha's manga in your language.
Start a targeted boycot and let them know that you're boycotting them.
The only way to let them know how many readers of scans buy the manga, is to not buy the overseas version.
It's something that should spread over every scanlation site.

HP2009Eagle
April 20, 2010, 01:00 AM
I can understand where theyre coming from but honestly the only way they could ever stop it is to actually stop releasing anything which wont happen. Its sorta funny to read some of the postings here by users arguing that people should do certain things as if theyre the authors/shueisha lol. Personally I dont really have the money to buy the series that I like & neither do a lot of the people here. Maybe they should think about publishing the books out themselves instead of licensing it to a company who ask for $5+tax what it costs in japan.

Ju-da-su
April 20, 2010, 01:29 AM
Next month, don't buy Shueisha's manga in your language.
Start a targeted boycot and let them know that you're boycotting them.
The only way to let them know how many readers of scans buy the manga, is to not buy the overseas version.
It's something that should spread over every scanlation site.

...Wonder if that will actually ever work though. I mean, I don't think the Japanese company actually CARES about the international sale of their mangas, since international publisher just pay them a constant amount of money every year or so to buy the license. Nothing more than that. Boycotting by not buying the international tanko, thus, won't going to affect Shueisha at all, since they already get their annual pay from the publishers. It's the international publisher that is going to suffer from the boycott, which I think is actually unfair.

Also, for a single month, huh? Don't think it's going to work. -_-"

nomoda
April 20, 2010, 04:47 AM
ummm... this site is officially dead too...? I see N/A alot...
where the fk am I suppose to get my manga now....
(PM me if u know any good sites lol)

Anyways.. I think most people dont mind paying money to read manga.
It just the stupid extra cost to ship the manga. We can afford like $20-30/month but not like $100+ a month after shipping.

I also prefer electronic copy than paper since I dont think I can store like 500+ books in my tiny room + I move house like every year.

I just wish theres a way we can read manga online legally.

something like....
Publisher makes an online reading site. We need to pay to make an account so we can read online. When making an account, you must also indicate your IP address (I guess max 2 or 3 IPs) so people cant share their accounts.

Something like that? It can also save paper and printing cost...
In the long-run, I think it can cover development cost.

People with some kind of connection or PC Pro. will probably get free scans... but average people will end up paying the online service once strict law get enforced.

If it's gonna get scanned anyway, why not trying making a system like this? Probably publisher will be able to get some $$$ out of this plan.

What do you guys think?

BlackBunny103
April 20, 2010, 06:14 AM
Hey
I just realised that MH has removed most of their raws down wth
First raw paradise now MH where am I supposed to get the raws from....

Lectro Volpi
April 20, 2010, 06:19 AM
I dont know why you guys are so frustrated over "it is correct/incorrect" "I dont have money/There is no that my country". We are thieves, we are stealing and I stopped caring a long time ago... Though... I dont want to make Oda cry...

cepillon
April 20, 2010, 08:02 AM
:O
All raws was removed xD....
and the Scanlations are hiding ? :D

Rena Chan
April 20, 2010, 08:09 AM
While I'm not going to post something of discussion to the topic, to all the people that are "whining" on where to get the raws, as it has been said by Ju-da-su and eni, but only god knows how many people actually read all the posts, learn how to use IRC! Basic IRC is not difficult to learn at all! If you have any observation powers at all and take note of who are the other regular raw providers/uploaders at MangaHelpers that are NOT AFFILIATED NOR RELATED TO Raw Paradise, you would have the thought of PMing them and asking whether they're still scanning or not and where you can find their raws if they are! Or if they're raw hunters or uploaders, ask where they get the raws! It's just extra work on your part to be able to continue getting your raws to your favorite series!

BTW Ju-da-su, I love your comment on the mangaka feelings part. I really hated WSJ at that time when Double Arts was cancelled. It was then I stopped reading any new WSJ series that I was interested in until I was sure it would continue till the end...which was none even till now.

Although the one thing I'm a bit worried about is how will new series in the Kodansha, Shueisha and Shogakukan magazines get more exposure now...is there a way for MH to still promote the new series (I'm talking about the Weekly Manga Shoutout) so that it might get the "better" chance to be translated and/or scanlated, but not post the raws and still like let people know where to get it?

eni
April 20, 2010, 08:29 AM
is there a way for MH to still promote the new series (I'm talking about the Weekly Manga Shoutout) so that it might get the "better" chance to be translated and/or scanlated, but not post the raws and still like let people know where to get it?
We're brainstorming about that too.

One of MH's focus points is the promotion of new and lesser known manga, so that would really be a huge down for everyone to not make it possible.

If you have ideas, please let us know. We're open for any input.

A main problem is surely how to integrate the irc channel without announcing it too big. We need to keep it secret to some extend, yet also need to bring people there. A fine line >_<

cepillon
April 20, 2010, 08:32 AM
the overload of traffic and people can destroy ur channel rena-chan ?...
There is a limit on mirc ?

And thx for the raws again xD i hope that u release fairy tail soon T_T! :D
Thx!!

eni
April 20, 2010, 09:05 AM
the overload of traffic and people can destroy ur channel rena-chan ?...
There is a limit on mirc ?
IRC (mIRC is just one of many clients for this, like Firefox or Opera for browsing the web) is a very low-traffic chat. The number of people in the channel can be easily a few hundred without any problems.

The traffic for the download, depending on how they're hosting, doesn't differ to the one at MH's servers. Don't worry about it unless they say themselves that it's becoming a problem. I think Rena knows very well what kind of traffic can hit them once the WSJ fanboys figured it out :p

chisanahikari
April 20, 2010, 11:12 AM
They don't have right to do that! they don't thinking about place that they can't reach for now! :mad My country has been loooooooooooong way behind the raw and we can't afford to import manga since it will be 50 times higher price than normal price!!! their translation is F**k and no taste (better raws)!! Number of series is to low (just 10 series in a month, you kidding!). can't we report shueisha for public lies and threat?

ruggia
April 20, 2010, 11:47 AM
The traffic for the download, depending on how they're hosting, doesn't differ to the one at MH's servers.:p
..... but MH download server is really slow :>_>
I've recently started using IRC, and it seems like its either really fast or really slow. or maybe thats just my bad internet.

eni
April 20, 2010, 11:53 AM
I've recently started using IRC, and it seems like its either really fast or really slow. or maybe thats just my bad internet.
Well, IRC is, after all, what the name says Internet Relay Chat. You technically don't download from IRC just through IRC :)

The downloads are either on a server (like in Rena's channel) or you download directly from other users' computers (direct connection, just like you can do at MSN too).

And yes, Mh servers are slow. See the raw blocking positive. 1/3 of our resources are free now :XD

Trejon
April 20, 2010, 12:21 PM
We're brainstorming about that too.

One of MH's focus points is the promotion of new and lesser known manga, so that would really be a huge down for everyone to not make it possible.

If you have ideas, please let us know. We're open for any input.

A main problem is surely how to integrate the irc channel without announcing it too big. We need to keep it secret to some extend, yet also need to bring people there. A fine line >_<

acutally there is a way to get a new website based on cookies from internet, the point its that to access that website you need to do certain things within the mainwebsite to then get access to the subweb, and if you dont and just enter there directly you get for example a whitepage, a page, the web i usually enter had implemented that to keep UNWANTED persons OUT and they cannot know what going on inside. for that you had to first, remove all the cookies, close all windows, enter the mainwebsite and log in, after that you get access to the subweb.
for now thats a temporary solution but its better than nothing

Ju-da-su
April 20, 2010, 12:32 PM
They don't have right to do that! they don't thinking about place that they can't reach for now! :mad My country has been loooooooooooong way behind the raw and we can't afford to import manga since it will be 50 times higher price than normal price!!! their translation is F**k and no taste (better raws)!! Number of series is to low (just 10 series in a month, you kidding!). can't we report shueisha for public lies and threat?

Pffft...don't be stupid. They don't have the right to do this? Try reporting them to the law for that, and you'll ended up getting arrested yourself. Hell yes, they do have every single rights to do this, ever since those mangakas signed the contract to work with them. :S

No matter what your reason might be, piracy is still considered as a crime. Companies which hold the lawful copyright has every single right to sue anyone who they considered to have stolen their work in any form, including digital copies, aka RAW scans. Your country's licensed version might be slow, or the translation might be nothing but a piece of sh*t, but the fact is still the fact. That fact is, digital copy of the original manga produced by someone who doesn't hold the copyright or have such permission ARE illegal. The mangas in your country might be the worst ever in the world, but we still have to admit that we are the one going under ground, on the illegal side, not them. :S

Ilcm26
April 20, 2010, 12:32 PM
Someone should make a Topic about where/how to get Raws from now on, since LOTS of people will be asking and not everyone reads all the posts like Rena Chan said...

Trejon
April 20, 2010, 12:52 PM
by the way, how do you use IRC?? until now i havent had any need to use it, but now i need it, what its the IRC for MH?, if someone could tell me that in a private message.

and as for Shueisha's request, i believe that RAWS on internet will be controled by them to some extent, if a fansub can no longer get the manga, eventually a person will buy the raw manga from internet get it in their house, scan it and send it to the fansub so they translate it and he then can happily know what happening =P.
i hope that online manga reading websites dont get involved in this whole mess, that would be to damn exagerated, i hope they just want to stop japaneses to read online and not buying... if not then i might die from a heart atack

fdbgdg
April 20, 2010, 01:02 PM
so what popular series are not having raws provided anymore that used to be provided by only raw-paradise?

ruggia
April 20, 2010, 01:14 PM
so what popular series are not having raws provided anymore that used to be provided by only raw-paradise?

not exactly "popular", but Cage of Eden (Eden no Ori) no longer has a anyone scanning the magazine RAWs...(moaning big time.)
I think thats it for WSM (among the ones I follow).... for Sunday, I think Major.....

also few series from Bessatsu Magazine. (like Dobutsu no kuni)

there are probably a lot more that I'm not aware of... not to mention specials or oneshots that Raw Paradise often scans (like Akamaru)

Ilcm26
April 20, 2010, 02:01 PM
I really hope that Akamaru and the other One Shots Magazines gets scanned:s

And I NEED my Eden no Ori!!:darn

What about Kimi Machi?

ruggia
April 20, 2010, 02:08 PM
And I NEED my Eden no Ori!!:darn

What about Kimi Machi?

we have Rena chan for KNIM and pretty much all other WSM.

maybe we should bribe Rena into scanning Eden... even though the scan group is only using the tanks to scan :p

fg7dragon
April 20, 2010, 02:18 PM
I may sound too optimistic, but this situation will probably be like the removal of Kodansha manga from Mangahelpers. There will be alternative sources for translators and scanlators, and most certainly sites to post the manga. Worst case scenario, it will be delayed till Autumn.
As for RAWs, well lately there have been Spoilers that consisted of the entire chapter, though their quality was admittedly not perfect.
I mean, alt least 10% of the advertising for manga is done through scanlations on the net. the same goes for anime. Why else would top rank anime like Bleach or Naruto be allowed to be posted on the net so widely, especially the entire series.
The way I see it, Shueisha is just panicking from losing profit due to the worldwide financial crisis and felt like blaming someone for it.

magicbulletgirl
April 20, 2010, 02:26 PM
Just to make clear for the shonen sunday fans - the regular series will still show up at other places where they are posted weekly, such as certain LJ communities currently visible on this page~

Ilcm26
April 20, 2010, 04:23 PM
maybe we should bribe Rena into scanning Eden... even though the scan group is only using the tanks to scan :p

I agree with you ruggia, there's no way I can wait until the scans reach the recent chapters:darn

They're really behind with the series right? Let's bribe Rena Chan:tem

Negative Syndicate
April 20, 2010, 04:34 PM
I want to make things clear.

First, is MangaHelpers not going to upload raws from Shonen Jump and Shonen Sunday?

Second, which magazines MH going to continue to upload?

eni
April 20, 2010, 04:54 PM
First, is MangaHelpers not going to upload raws from Shonen Jump and Shonen Sunday?
Raws from Kōdansha, Shūeisha and Shōgakukan series are down for everyone. As well as scanlations from Kōdansha.


Second, which magazines MH going to continue to upload?
Everything not published by Kōdansha, Shūeisha or Shōgakukan for everyone but viewers from the area of Japan. They're completely blocked from any raws.

See:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/publishers.html?id=100
http://www.mangaupdates.com/publishers.html?id=163
http://www.mangaupdates.com/publishers.html?id=149

Clear enough? :)
[hr]

Someone should make a Topic about where/how to get Raws from now on, since LOTS of people will be asking and not everyone reads all the posts like Rena Chan said...
We have that. The thread is two years old.

People, learn using a search function and you'll wonder what you find...
[hr]

by the way, how do you use IRC?? until now i havent had any need to use it, but now i need it, what its the IRC for MH?, if someone could tell me that in a private message.
We have a whole forum for IRC support. Is it so hard to look at the forums index, I wonder? :s

Plus, I posted a very direct hint on how to find Rena's IRC channel earlier in this thread. Just in case the next one starts asking 'where in IRC...'.

Guys, seriously. Some things asked here are covered since YEARS in this forum. Long before we offered the raw uploads. Try actually looking a little further than the frontpage and you'll find all you need.

Estranho
April 20, 2010, 06:04 PM
Without Kodansha, Shueisha and Shogakukan, what we have? 2 or 3 small publishers.
So, 70-80% of the series are out.

This isn't a critic, it's a conclusion.

Rei Ayanami
April 20, 2010, 07:57 PM
Without Kodansha, Shueisha and Shogakukan, what we have? 2 or 3 small publishers.
So, 70-80% of the series are out.

This isn't a critic, it's a conclusion.

Kodansha, Shueisha and Shogakukan are just the biggest and most well known.

http://mangahelpers.com/manga/search/

check under "published by" their is tons of other manga publishers.

Rena Chan
April 20, 2010, 08:44 PM
We're brainstorming about that too.

One of MH's focus points is the promotion of new and lesser known manga, so that would really be a huge down for everyone to not make it possible.

If you have ideas, please let us know. We're open for any input.

A main problem is surely how to integrate the irc channel without announcing it too big. We need to keep it secret to some extend, yet also need to bring people there. A fine line >_<

Yeah, I understand what you mean for the IRC channel part. At this point in time, the best way is by "word of mouth".

As for the Manga Shout out, eh, I dunno if there are any feasible ideas to still promote new series from Kodansha, Shueisha and Shogakukan magazines, but I guess maybe you guys need to watch the channel more often for new raws from series?

Or maybe you guys can make a thread/sub-forum at the forums dedicated to it so anyone that finds new series or scans new series from magazines from those three publishers can perhaps, I dunno, post raws to the first chapter or two ONLY just to let people to have a "preview" of it? Then just do a Manga shout out without directing them to the raw directly, but maybe the thread? Then if anyone wants to continue getting raws will have to ask the scanner/uploader for them in private?

Estranho
April 20, 2010, 10:19 PM
Kodansha, Shueisha and Shogakukan are just the biggest and most well known.

http://mangahelpers.com/manga/search/

check under "published by" their is tons of other manga publishers.

I know, but how much of these publishers the scanlantors work on?
That's my point: today, 70-80% (it's a guess) of mangas scanlated are from the "big 3" publishers.
At least the shonen/seinen stuff, I don't know about shoujo/josei.

LordHakera
April 21, 2010, 12:05 AM
Well, I don't understand a couple of things, so I'm sorry if the questions are stupid. First of all, from what I read Shueisha is the owner of WSJ, right? Then why was Raw-Paradise closed all-together? Sure, I'm reading some of the WSJ series, but I'm also following series from other magazines, which were uploaded on RP. Couldn't they just stop uploading raws that are copyrighted by Shueisha?

Unfortunately since this is aimed at Japanese people, who use RP, instead of buying WSJ, it sucks for fans like us. To be honest, until I read some of the post I really thought that Shueisha was having a problem with the foreign fanbase and the scanlation groups. But it never once crossed my mind that japanese people would use sites like RP. I mean, that's the country of manga. The WSJ and other manga magazines are so cheap, that people throw them in the trash after they read them. They also leave them in public places, like the subway for example, where everyone can pick it up, read it while traveling and leave it when they're done or reached their destination. And I'm not saying this, because I read Bakuman. I have some Japanese friends, one of which is a Doujin artist, who told me about this, while the authors were still working on Death Note XD (Back then I thought "They throw it?! What a waste!" and I almost cried T_T). WSJ and other magazines is something like a newspaper. With the difference you can't buy later releases of articles, collected in a tankoban (I think ^^' Who knows, you might be able too XD) Since it's like that, people can still only read the most popular series, the ones they're most interested in, without bothering with others. Which doesn't really change anything for aspiring authors.

So what does this mean? That only people who are fans buy tankobans. Others are just interested in reading the story. So if the magazine is this cheap and their real profit comes from tankoban sales, then why do they care? For manga fans (I'm speaking out of personal experience and considering all my friends' tastes) it's much better to buy the tankobans. I personally would buy all the series I like. I even buy the first volume of a series I just want to check out sometimes, even though they can be easily found on the net. Most of my friends also prefer buying manga (anime is a different thing XD), although there are 1-2 who prefer reading them online (or borrowing them from us). I've been buying the English version of WSJ (even though it sucks and there are series I don't like and read) for a while now and I collect them. I'm sure other fans do the same too. So it's a bit incomprehensible why they did it. At least to me ^^

Ju-da-su
April 21, 2010, 12:50 AM
Well, I don't understand a couple of things, so I'm sorry if the questions are stupid. First of all, from what I read Shueisha is the owner of WSJ, right? Then why was Raw-Paradise closed all-together? Sure, I'm reading some of the WSJ series, but I'm also following series from other magazines, which were uploaded on RP. Couldn't they just stop uploading raws that are copyrighted by Shueisha?

Unfortunately since this is aimed at Japanese people, who use RP, instead of buying WSJ, it sucks for fans like us. To be honest, until I read some of the post I really thought that Shueisha was having a problem with the foreign fanbase and the scanlation groups. But it never once crossed my mind that japanese people would use sites like RP. I mean, that's the country of manga. The WSJ and other manga magazines are so cheap, that people throw them in the trash after they read them. They also leave them in public places, like the subway for example, where everyone can pick it up, read it while traveling and leave it when they're done or reached their destination. And I'm not saying this, because I read Bakuman. I have some Japanese friends, one of which is a Doujin artist, who told me about this, while the authors were still working on Death Note XD (Back then I thought "They throw it?! What a waste!" and I almost cried T_T). WSJ and other magazines is something like a newspaper. With the difference you can't buy later releases of articles, collected in a tankoban (I think ^^' Who knows, you might be able too XD) Since it's like that, people can still only read the most popular series, the ones they're most interested in, without bothering with others. Which doesn't really change anything for aspiring authors.

So what does this mean? That only people who are fans buy tankobans. Others are just interested in reading the story. So if the magazine is this cheap and their real profit comes from tankoban sales, then why do they care? For manga fans (I'm speaking out of personal experience and considering all my friends' tastes) it's much better to buy the tankobans. I personally would buy all the series I like. I even buy the first volume of a series I just want to check out sometimes, even though they can be easily found on the net. Most of my friends also prefer buying manga (anime is a different thing XD), although there are 1-2 who prefer reading them online (or borrowing them from us). I've been buying the English version of WSJ (even though it sucks and there are series I don't like and read) for a while now and I collect them. I'm sure other fans do the same too. So it's a bit incomprehensible why they did it. At least to me ^^

From what I've read regarding RP...they just chickened out. I mean, some people said that Shueisha didn't really do anything other than putting up that threat in their TOC. It's the admin of RP that redirect his domain name to their webpage him/herself.

Well, taken that 80 something percents of their viewers are Japanese, it's just obvious for them to chicken out once the Japanese publisher got in, I guess (already have this experience, when all the Thai manga communities just went in panic for a month or so after one of our publishers do the same thing as Shueisha, putting the threat to the scanlation communities in their magazine...things just got back to normal not even 3 months after that though...). I mean, true, magazines might not be that different from newspaper. People will just read it and throw them away. In fact, if my memory serves, in Japan, manga magazines aren't wrapped when they're on shelf. People usually can just read it inside the shop, even in convenient stores, and walk out, knowing everything in the magazine without even buying anyway. *shrug* But...can't deny the fact. If you're to choose between paying one yen and get it for free for something that's almost the same, I'm sure that most people will just go with the free one anyway. It's common sense. -_-"

eni
April 21, 2010, 02:14 AM
As for the Manga Shout out, eh, I dunno if there are any feasible ideas to still promote new series from Kodansha, Shueisha and Shogakukan magazines
Need to talk to c_k but I think we can just keep up new series in the shout outs whether raws are (visible) online or not. Best thing that can happen is that more people start scanning, less workload for you. Worst thing would be that no effort is made to actually find the raws. But usually people interested in scanlating should be able to look for them.

Plus, neither posting a scan of the mag index/toc with the announcements, nor a mediafire link within the series/chapter discussion threads here and there will be removed. Just not by staff and not in the first post. We never tied the creation of new series threads to the existence of raws online in the first place since not every mag has regular scanner.


Or maybe you guys can make a thread/sub-forum at the forums dedicated to it [...] Then if anyone wants to continue getting raws will have to ask the scanner/uploader for them in private?
We have a raw request board since long before we started hosting raws. Changed the rules yesterday there and deleted plenty of old threads to avoid an archive function. So if we shout out series and people can't find raws, they can ask there :)

Just don't overdo it with the mag requests. The board is originally for finding old and rare tank scans.


That's my point: today, 70-80% (it's a guess) of mangas scanlated are from the "big 3" publishers.
At least the shonen/seinen stuff, I don't know about shoujo/josei.
That's your impression as a shounen/seinen reader then. These publisher cover maybe 1/4 of my manga and I have a read list of over 1200 titles ;D


First of all, from what I read Shueisha is the owner of WSJ, right? Then why was Raw-Paradise closed all-together? Sure, I'm reading some of the WSJ series, but I'm also following series from other magazines, which were uploaded on RP. Couldn't they just stop uploading raws that are copyrighted by Shueisha?
I never used RP actively myself, so I have no clue what mags they hosted. But Shueisha is a very big company with several magazines, not just WSJ.

See my post here and take a look at the links (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1889392#post1889392) to see which magazines are owned by Shueisha alone. Plus the magazines by Shogakukan, who's the head company behind Shueisha.

adytu99
April 21, 2010, 03:08 AM
Since they saw that the announcement worked for WSJ they will try to enforce it for all their group publications. I think that this may stop some people from Japan from reading the raws (though at the price the magazine sells i'd buy it in a heartbeat) but if they try to stop scanlations alltogether alot of series will go unread, which was also a great exposure for smaller mangaka's future projects.

Rena Chan
April 21, 2010, 03:54 AM
Need to talk to c_k but I think we can just keep up new series in the shout outs whether raws are (visible) online or not. Best thing that can happen is that more people start scanning, less workload for you. Worst thing would be that no effort is made to actually find the raws. But usually people interested in scanlating should be able to look for them.

Plus, neither posting a scan of the mag index/toc with the announcements, nor a mediafire link within the series/chapter discussion threads here and there will be removed. Just not by staff and not in the first post. We never tied the creation of new series threads to the existence of raws online in the first place since not every mag has regular scanner.



Hm, I don't quite understand, it means no links to the raws can be posted?

Though you'll have to excuse my knowledge of the threads and forums on MH since I don't really have the time to look through the forums or even look at old threads...I tend to only see ones with new posts only at certain places...

Although, I think I have an idea that might actually work...but I'll have to do it myself. When a new series catches my eye and I'm kind of interested in seeing it scanlated, I'll scan it from the mags and continue scanning it for as long as I'm able to. Then I can like probably "hijack" the magazine threads over at the Otaku Shoten sub-forum and then *cough* make a post *cough* stating that I'll be scanning said new series, but contact me for the raws and c_k can do a manga shoutout for it (definitely need to have a summary for it!) and maybe you guys can start the series discussion thread over at the Shonen forums with the color pages and the summary? Or something...

Would it work/be okay for you guys? I need something that is okay to work with to help promote new series cause I'm looking to scan the new series in WSM this week...I also need something to work with for the one-shots that I've scanned/going to scan from those magazines related to the three publishers...

There is this one-shot that I've scanned from last week's WSM that I want to see get a shout-out too =(

eni
April 21, 2010, 04:40 AM
Hm, I don't quite understand, it means no links to the raws can be posted?
Right, asking is not illegal. How they get the links is *cough* not our concern and the threads there get auto-deleted after 15 days.

However, that's supposed to work mainly for older and rare tanks. I don't want to see the board flooded with 50 current chapter wsj link requests per day, else I gonna restrict it to tank requests only >_>


Though you'll have to excuse my knowledge of the threads and forums on MH since I don't really have the time to look through the forums or even look at old threads...I tend to only see ones with new posts only at certain places...
Yes, sorry >.<

I'm a little annoyed on the mass-panic over this, mostly coming from people who 'grew up' with RP only, it seems. People here ask for things that we have on MH pretty much since the beginning -_-;

It worked without external raw sites before too. The current problem is the mass-hosting which triggered a huge Japanese audience. Remember when MH was featured in a JP mag including howto (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18799)? That is what annoys the Japanese publishers, not the raw links shared by some western fans over the discussion threads. They only care for the Japanese market.


Then I can like probably "hijack" the magazine threads over at the Otaku Shoten sub-forum and then *cough* make a post *cough* stating that I'll be scanning said new series, but contact me for the raws and c_k can do a manga shoutout for it (definitely need to have a summary for it!) and maybe you guys can start the series discussion thread over at the Shonen forums with the color pages and the summary? Or something...

Would it work/be okay for you guys?
That's actually perfect.

You can also post a page or two to show the artwork, that is no problem at all. We're not going to removes sample pages, panels, index/toc scans or covers. Counts legally as image quote. In fact, c_k would like to continue using summaries and pictures for the promotion, so she needs samples.

And as said, within the series discussion threads we're not going to remove a *cough*decently posted mediafire link*cough*. We won't feature it in the first post and don't officially support it, but as long as it kept on low flame within the discussions... ;)

The real problematic part is the mass-hosting on the frontpage. But now I stop directly hinting sharing tactics, else I get beheaded :XD

craziii
April 21, 2010, 04:42 AM
This was done preemptively by the people who run Raw-Paradise.com to protect themselves. As was the watermark that recently started appearing. The statement in WSJ is addressed to Japanese fans who have easy and cheap access to the magazine in nearly every convenience store/corner shop in the country. It isn't addressed to international fans necessarily.

The Japanese raw scanning community get most of their raws from Raw-Paradise. As 2ch links to the site often and all of their raws turn up on Share/Perfect Dark. The Japanese traffic to sites like Raw-Paradise and sites of their kind is what the problem is, not the scanlation community, who do as much good for manga's popularity internationally as anything else.

if I had such easy + cheap access to original unmodify manga, I would be in heaven :( I hate all american versions cause of censorship.

Rena Chan
April 21, 2010, 04:54 AM
Right, asking is not illegal. How they get the links is *cough* not our concern and the threads there get auto-deleted after 15 days.

However, that's supposed to work mainly for older and rare tanks. I don't want to see the board flooded with 50 current chapter wsj link requests per day, else I gonna restrict it to tank requests only >_>


Yes, sorry >.<

I'm a little annoyed on the mass-panic over this, mostly coming from people who 'grew up' with RP only, it seems. People here ask for things that we have on MH pretty much since the beginning -_-;

It worked without external raw sites before too. The current problem is the mass-hosting which triggered a huge Japanese audience. Remember when MH was featured in a JP mag including howto (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18799)? That is what annoys the Japanese publishers, not the raw links shared by some western fans over the discussion threads. They only care for the Japanese market.


That's actually perfect.

You can also post a page or two to show the artwork, that is no problem at all. We're not going to removes sample pages, panels, index/toc scans or covers. Counts legally as image quote. In fact, c_k would like to continue using summaries and pictures for the promotion, so she needs samples.

And as said, within the series discussion threads we're not going to remove a *cough*decently posted mediafire link*cough*. We won't feature it in the first post and don't officially support it, but as long as it kept on low flame within the discussions... ;)

The real problematic part is the mass-hosting on the frontpage. But now I stop directly hinting sharing tactics, else I get beheaded :XD


That clears a lot of things up :amuse

Doing sample pages for new manga/one-shots is not a problem at all. I have my own webhost which can even host the image files such that it won't expire, disappear, etc.

So now some extra work for me to help promote new manga that catches my eye, but it's fine for me since I like to help try promote new stuff and contribute to the manga scanlation community whenever I can :)

eni
April 21, 2010, 04:57 AM
That's awesome, Rena. And it will help a lot to get scanlator attention to new series.

Thank you very much! :hug

XiongMao-kun
April 21, 2010, 05:18 AM
Curious on a few counts:

What is MangaHelpers stance on this, generally? It seems that you're going to regulate RAW releases on-site, but will turn a blind eye to RAW providers elsewhere that are active on-site (hi Rena Chan~). Of course, it's not like I have a problem with this, but isn't it hypocritical? Go the whole way or don't go at all, right?

Second, has Shueisha actually DONE anything substantive? What's the reaction on the Japanese side of things (i.e. has P2P decreased, has legal action been taken, etc.)? It seems like an overreaction on this side of the Pacific (apologies for my Ameri-centrism).

Finally, why is everybody so afraid of actually purchasing raws? I hear they go for around $9-10 per tank in California book-offs, which is hardly a steep price considering what some people are willing to pay for video games. You support your mangaka that way, you get your manga fix, everybody's happy.

eni
April 21, 2010, 05:27 AM
XiongMao-kun, it's a simple matter of 'don't be loud'. I'm not gonna publicly comment on this further, else we really have to go all the way. The answer is pretty much in what I posted to Rena before and my PM box is always free.

Generally no further discussion on this now. The term 'low flame' should be explanation enough.

If there's no interest on debating the news itself and the general effect on the scene, we could actually close this thread, I think. This isn't a good place to bring up alternatives too loudly.

XiongMao-kun
April 21, 2010, 05:35 AM
That's probably for the best.

Doesn't seem very "low flame" though. This thread has generated 225 responses (counting this one) and the news post breached 75 comments a short while ago. Anybody with eyes in their head can read what's going on.
Screw this, I've been up for almost 24 hours now and I've got no bloody clue what seriously is going on. Clearly those 225 responses were not all about generating illicit copies of raws, though I was implying that they were.

Estranho
April 21, 2010, 10:24 AM
But seems like hypocrisy. The other publishers mangakas also have the "feelings hurt", if you know what I mean.
So why only these three publishers are banned from MH? Just because they complain?

Alterno
April 21, 2010, 10:27 AM
I buy manga online, @amazon.com, but the true is that I want to keep up with then new chapters, if they would sell Shounen jump in the same week in the rest of the countries, I would gladly buy it. Of course I buy the volumes, but I wouldn't mind buying the magazine if translated in Spanish or English.

We need to support the authors by buying the manga.

Shinsatsu
April 21, 2010, 02:25 PM
This is similar to what happened to Dattebayo and Naruto's anime releases.
Even after that, everyone is watching the episodes as soon as they come out.

To be honest... This should apply only to japanese people because they get to buy the magazine from the store next door ... we live in far countries and scanlations are the only way we can read the manga.
They could easily make profit from the international fanbase... but not like this.

Newkerzy
April 22, 2010, 05:48 AM
:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm from MS:
@denayaira: They ask for the stop of RAWs being posted, to be precise. And what we will do is continuing to not post them online. :)

Of course!!!! we're such idiots!!! :facepalm They didn't specifically ask scanlations to be removed.... they only asked for RAWS!!! damn, I feel like an idiot!!!

Ju-da-su
April 22, 2010, 01:01 PM
Of course!!!! we're such idiots!!! :facepalm They didn't specifically ask scanlations to be removed.... they only asked for RAWS!!! damn, I feel like an idiot!!!

We are? I thought that was already common sense that they only asked us to get the raws out, not scanlations...>_>"

I mean, who the heck call scanlation as a "copy" (コピー) of a raw? Copy means to clone, to make it come out exactly the same or similar to the high extent as the original. Scanlations aren't copy of the magazine. The languages aren't even the same! >_>"

Just my stupid logic...:p

mastercko
April 22, 2010, 08:36 PM
Serious matter.
Shueisha asks for the end of scans on the internet.
http://thumbnails27.imagebam.com/7663/0576c576623654.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0576c576623654/)

I read it. I'm more than a little miffed at the annoyingly sappy, completely disingenuous tone of the message. I wrote a response on Buzz that I'll copy here.


To the geniouses at Shuueisha

I could spend a while going into who I am and why I'm writing this, but I'm not. Instead, I'll just address your message (linked image) directly. Put simply: This message that you put out in your most recent issue of Shonen Jump Weekly is frankly ridiculous. The guilt-trip, tug-at-heartstrings tone of the message is so sardonically disingenuous and blatantly hypocritical on its face that it's quite angering.

The internet and the easy distribution of content as simple data is here to stay. Like music, movies, and books before you, you have to adapt and make a business model that works with the internet as a delivery method (oh, I don't know, how about an official online distribution site that saves your readers money and makes it convenient to "follow the rules"), not bury your head in the sand and put out this sappy, appeal-to-emotion message in an attempt to pretend that the internet doesn't exist.

I hope that you can find a way to work this out rationally because I and others clearly would really like to consume your product, but it seems that you really want to make it hard for us all to do so.

Cheers.

Basically, if there was even a hint of them making moves to create a better model that works with the reality of the internet, I wouldn't be as mad, but they're just like "waah, the internet is bad, we have to try and keep our old out-moded distribution system because we can't think of anything, waah."

Sorry if this comes off strong, but I'm a bit heated now. Especially since I already give them (the whole stupid distribution chain that exists now) about $300-$500 a year and only use the downloaded raws (studied Japanese for over a decade and heavily prefer reading in the original language) as a way to keep up on what's going on week-to-week.

SoS
April 22, 2010, 10:15 PM
Online scans are not a bad thing most people who buy manga like myself get to know series trough the internet and then buy actual copies. If it wasn't for scans the western fanbase would be even smaller.

Anyways is not like is gonna change anything It's the same as musicians asking for people to stop downloading music.

yeah i'm like the same i read chapters on the net or download then buy the actual manga at stores. guess i'm gonna have to go to a manga cafe again so expensive T_T

geng0610
April 23, 2010, 05:53 AM
Shueisha needs to do better. Here's an e-mail I sent to them.

"Dear Viz Media and Shueisha.

Shonen Jump really need to find a way to make Jump available to readers outside of Japan

The recent decision to shut down various manga websites does not seem to be a particularly surprising one, since they were knowingly violating the law in the first place. However, perhaps one should reconsider why such a phenomenon, where people take their time away from their regular lives and scan, translate, and edit japanese manga, happened in the first place. People around the world love Japanese manga, especially Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, among other series. Every week, hundreds of thousands of English translations are downloaded from these websites, and that's just the English ones. I have lived for a very long time in China, Japan, and the U.S, I wonder if one add up all the scanlations, from fan-dubbed English ones to poorly translated copies in China, it would make up more than a million copies. The foreign fan base of Japanese manga has grown steadily over the last few years, thanks to this subculture. That is why I find the recent decision to limit the spread of manga outside of Japan particularly offensive and unwise.

Manga lovers outside Japan are the most loyal manga fans. Tight communities have been created around manga and to them, reading One Piece every week and sharing it with friends is just a part of life. Is Jump trying to kill off its most loyal fan base, just because they have violated some outdated laws? Come on!? The manga fans abroad have done so much for your business. They have produced many superior translation of your manga, introduced their friends to your manga, and even purchased your manga whenever they got the chance, and this is how you seek to repay them? As far as business and profitability is concerned, a moderate amount of fan-dubbing and piracy is flattering. In business school, they will teach you that regarding piracy, 50% of pirated product users eventually become loyal users, and pirated products, when inferior compared to the original, can actually help spread product adaption by a wider audience. This decision by Shueisha does not make business sense nor does it pleases many people. The only reason I can think of why Shueisha decided to do what it did is that some of their management is still stuck in the backward notion that anything illegal is bad. Has it ever crossed your mind that the law is backward, or perhaps it is time for Jump to change its approaches?

Anime fans outside of Japan routinely wonders when anime would actually make it to their country. Hollywood movies can cross the ocean in less than 24 hours and it take One-Piece, the best selling manga ever, more than a few years to be officially introduced to foreign market? That just doesn't make sense at all. Furthermore, when the local anime fans take the time every week to gather around raw Japanese manga and translate them, they feel as if they own a piece of that manga and they are a part of a larger movement. I can't imagine anyone unoffended when Shueisha calls them "hurting manga-ka's souls" when it is the fans who help the manga-ka spread their words.

Jump has millions of readers overseas and they are asking for the newest manga chapters. Give it to us. And we are not saying that we are going to illegally make digital copies forever. If you made mangas readable on e-readers, iPad users will go crazy over it! If you somehow made Jump downloadable for a fee, most of will actually pay rather than going through the hustle of scanning and translation. Your lack of traditional distribution system outside of Japan is not an excuse for you to limit your market and insult your loyal fan base abroad. Just because we don't have convenient stores as they do in Japan doesn't mean that we can't buy Jump. This is the 21st century, and there are more than a million ways to make Jump available to people outside of Japan. It may take some ingenuity to pull it off. But then again, Japan is one of the most technologically advanced counties, if not the most, and Shueisha is the LARGEST, MOST INNOVATIVE, manga publisher. How is this going to be a hard task? If it is so hard, talk to me. I go to MIT and I got friends from the top technical institutes around the U.S. I'm sure between us, we can figure something out for you that would bring you more profit and happier, larger, fan base.

Best

Geng


"

Digitalr
April 23, 2010, 09:14 AM
I think their decision is completely unreasonable and people like us here should write to them and let them know how much people out side of Japan would love to read the latest manga chapters. Here's an e-mail I wrote to Viz-media. Shueisha has no e-mail, and it seems rather silly that a global company like Shueisha still rely on post-mail(and international postmail...)

Well you did call them innovative at the bottom, perhaps you should retract that statement?



"Dear Viz Media and Shueisha.

Shonen Jump really need to find a way to make Jump available to readers outside of Japan

True.



The recent decision to shut down various manga websites does not seem to be a particularly surprising one, since they were knowingly violating the law in the first place. However, perhaps one should reconsider why such a phenomenon, where people take their time away from their regular lives and scan, translate, and edit japanese manga, happened in the first place.

The reasons will vary, the most important one would be when it is not available. I assume, and hope, that they have already wondered about that. Japan is quite a DRM-centered country, that was pretty clear when they gave Bakuman in English. Here (http://www.shonenjump.com/e/index.html) is the result for now.



People around the world love Japanese manga, especially Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, among other series. Every week, hundreds of thousands of English translations are downloaded from these websites, and that's just the English ones. I have lived for a very long time in China, Japan, and the U.S, I wonder if one add up all the scanlations, from fan-dubbed English ones to poorly translated copies in China, it would make up more than a million copies. The foreign fan base of Japanese manga has grown steadily over the last few years, thanks to this subculture. That is why I find the recent decision to limit the spread of manga outside of Japan particularly offensive and unwise.

It does not limit the spread of manga outside of Japan, it just makes sure that Japanese people don't download them. As they have direct access to it through legal means.




Manga lovers outside Japan are the most loyal manga fans.

Source? They're just as loyal everywhere I presume.



Tight communities have been created around manga and to them, reading One Piece every week and sharing it with friends is just a part of life. Is Jump trying to kill off its most loyal fan base, just because they have violated some outdated laws? Come on!?
The manga fans abroad have done so much for your business. They have produced many superior translation of your manga, introduced their friends to your manga, and even purchased your manga whenever they got the chance, and this is how you seek to repay them?

I found the even quite ironic. Yes your customers keep you in business, but that can be reversed. We can read their manga because we buy it.
Repay them how? Where have they shut down an English manga site? They are talking about the publicly available raws here, not the English scanlations.



As far as business and profitability is concerned, a moderate amount of fan-dubbing and piracy is flattering. In business school, they will teach you that regarding piracy, 50% of pirated product users eventually become loyal users, and pirated products, when inferior compared to the original, can actually help spread product adaption by a wider audience.

Again... source?



This decision by Shueisha does not make business sense nor does it pleases many people.

It makes perfect "business sense". Japanese people notice that the raws for their favorite series are online for free and think... "Why would I still buy that magazine every week when I can read it sooner and without paying?"



The only reason I can think of why Shueisha decided to do what it did is that some of their management is still stuck in the backward notion that anything illegal is bad.
Has it ever crossed your mind that the law is backward, or perhaps it is time for Jump to change its approaches?

Yes laws can get outdated pretty easily due to the astonishing rise of the internet, you can't really blame Shueisha for that though.



Anime fans outside of Japan routinely wonders when anime would actually make it to their country. Hollywood movies can cross the ocean in less than 24 hours and it take One-Piece, the best selling manga ever, more than a few years to be officially introduced to foreign market? That just doesn't make sense at all.

Viz is catching up, slowly but surely. It requires manpower to release lots at once, and it's just not so smart from a business perspective.



Furthermore, when the local anime fans take the time every week to gather around raw Japanese manga and translate them, they feel as if they own a piece of that manga and they are a part of a larger movement. I can't imagine anyone unoffended when Shueisha calls them "hurting manga-ka's souls" when it is the fans who help the manga-ka spread their words.

Are you forgetting that Shueisha is a Japanese firm that focuses on the Japanese market? The problem is not, well not here anyway, that English users get their scanlations. It is that Japanese people can read it before the original release date and that's hurting their sales. Frankly, you can't come up with a solution for that. These magazines are online before they're even officially released, how exactly can they beat that deal?
If they start a legal online service that releases the chapters on Wednesday, why would people still buy the magazines next Monday? When it's digital, people would not be willing to pay for a phone book when they're only interested in 40 pages. On top of that they can charge way more for ads in their magazine than online, how will you fix that? You'd have to higher the price of the manga, which will upset people.



Jump has millions of readers overseas and they are asking for the newest manga chapters. Give it to us. And we are not saying that we are going to illegally make digital copies forever. If you made mangas readable on e-readers, iPad users will go crazy over it!

iPad user and manga reader, good luck. Furthermore, the iPad is not an e-reader it's a tablet. And real e-readers usually have 4-8 shades of grey, manga usually has 17-32.



If you somehow made Jump downloadable for a fee, most of will actually pay rather than going through the hustle of scanning and translation.

A noble thought, but will it really be like that when the average reader is 14? I think not.



Your lack of traditional distribution system outside of Japan is not an excuse for you to limit your market and insult your loyal fan base abroad.

Mind you the message was in Japanese, which means it was not directed at their loyal fan base abroad.



Just because we don't have convenient stores as they do in Japan doesn't mean that we can't buy Jump. This is the 21st century, and there are more than a million ways to make Jump available to people outside of Japan. It may take some ingenuity to pull it off. But then again, Japan is one of the most technologically advanced counties, if not the most, and Shueisha is the LARGEST, MOST INNOVATIVE, manga publisher. How is this going to be a hard task?
If it is so hard, talk to me. I go to MIT and I got friends from the top technical institutes around the U.S. I'm sure between us, we can figure something out for you that would bring you more profit and happier, larger, fan base.
Best
Geng"
Would you care to tell me how exactly they're innovative? Viz is owned by them by the way, so it wouldn'

All in all you are right that something should change, but it's probably not as easy as you think. And the reason why you sent that e-mail is just wrong, we can still read our scanlations. The raws might just be a little harder to obtain, but any decent group buys their own raws anyway so it doesn't matter.

Ju-da-su
April 23, 2010, 07:44 PM
Funny seeing how so many people just start assuming that they're talking about scanlation...they didn't mention a single thing about these translated version of the manga. They just say "the copy of a manga" which probably refer to the raw, not the scanlation...I thought I said this already, but Shueisha probably has almost nothing to do with English readers as much as Japanese ones. Their main market group is the Japanese people to start with! They already receive money from the publishers worldwide for the license. This is a Japanese company we're talking about here, not even an international one. Knowing how most Japanese are not that adept with English, English scanlations should hurt their company's profit as having English people with no knowledge of Japanese read the raw...:S

Shinsatsu
April 23, 2010, 10:12 PM
Funny seeing how so many people just start assuming that they're talking about scanlation...they didn't mention a single thing about these translated version of the manga. They just say "the copy of a manga" which probably refer to the raw, not the scanlation...I thought I said this already, but Shueisha probably has almost nothing to do with English readers as much as Japanese ones. Their main market group is the Japanese people to start with! They already receive money from the publishers worldwide for the license. This is a Japanese company we're talking about here, not even an international one. Knowing how most Japanese are not that adept with English, English scanlations should hurt their company's profit as having English people with no knowledge of Japanese read the raw...:S

Well, you cannot make a scanlation without getting a RAW first.
So, If the RAW version is illegal, you cannot make a scanlation since there is no "legal" way to scan the chapter.

But I agree that the message was meant to reach the japanese people not the international fanbase.

Without the scanlations, no one would know about naruto's manga outside Japan xD (bigger fanbase = bigger profit).

fdbgdg
April 23, 2010, 11:11 PM
Well, you cannot make a scanlation without getting a RAW first.
So, If the RAW version is illegal, you cannot make a scanlation since there is no "legal" way to scan the chapter.

ideally have someone who can buy the magazine and have a scanner and don't distribute the raw needed to make the scanlation to people not on the scanlation team. i don't see how hard that idea is. i mean, mangastream and binktopia has been doing that for awhile now.

so if the raw never surfaces then it's like it never ever existed... and the scanlation has always been a grey area, which shueisha isn't after.

Ju-da-su
April 24, 2010, 12:05 AM
Like how MangaStream never share their raws(?)...As long as the raws don't get distributed out, aka kept only within the scanlation group, there shouldn't be any problem with the scanlation even while the raws are hard to find. That's why you get some series that have scanlations coming out, regularly or irregularly, while the raws are almost unobtainable on the internet. Many of the series I'm doing are like that, so...-_-"

But yeah, funny how most publishers fail to realize that it's the same internet fanbase that they despise so much that are gaining them more popularity. I can almost imagine that WSJ will never be known outside of Japan if it's not being scanlated and posted online at all. -_-"

PS. In case people didn't know...looks like Shueisha DOES have the page where you can view the manga online...just extremely slow...:S

morten
April 24, 2010, 12:11 AM
I love this foolery at MH that starts everytime a publisher in Japan coughs...
There's not one rational mind here that really understood what Shueisha was asking for...
Anyway, enjoy your own fearmongering while not getting a slight glint about actual relevances...


Shonen Jump’s ultimatum to readers to stop uploading its manga online or face legal consequences is in response to publishers’ deeply held fears about a loss of control over their mangaka and a collapse in magazine sales, say commentators.

Illicit online distribution is claimed to have a disastrous effect on sales, but one of the most popularly pirated titles, One Piece, recently set a national sales record with is 57th volume, selling 3,000,000 copies in its first edition alone. In total it is said to have sold 185,000,000 copies. Sales of magazines meanwhile have steadily declined.

The overseas popularity of titles like Naruto, Haruhi, and Lucky Star is also said to have to have been based largely on illicit online distribution – certainly Kadokawa and company never marketed them at all overseas.

Some consider the real reason for Shueisha’s anger at illegal scans to be quite different to what the publisher would have fans believe – one journalist claims that the real fear of publishers is actually digital distribution as a whole, and the disruption it threatens to the manga industry’s traditional control over mangaka.

He points out that the main earner for mangaka is not serialised magazine sales but sales of the compiled volumes, or tankobon, much as it is sales of the DVD over TV broadcasts in the world of anime.

With illegal uploads sales are indeed impacted, so some mangaka have responded by simply publishing the serialisation on their homepage and relying on tankobon sales – a growing proportion are said to not to care if the serialisation takes place online, as ultimately it serves only as an advertisement for the tankobon.

“So the publishers are increasingly having trouble tying mangaka to their magazines. For example, were an Internet company come along and buy up the manuscripts, and then publish them online as a ‘web magazine,’ it’s possible the entire structure of the manga industry would be changed.”

Publishers, especially Japan’s giant publishing houses, deeply fear disruptions to their established way of doing things, but with new technology change is inevitable.

Online distribution, far from “wounding” mangaka as Shueisha claims, may actually free them from the control of traditional publishers – in the process destroying paper sales, which may be what publishers fear the most.

Don't expect scanlation to have any high impacts on Shueisha's business. The problem is that the world has moved on and companies are sticking to their outdated business models. They should just accept that their industry is past its prime and that while its still viable, it will never be the cash cow it once was. Markets change and distribution has to stay ahead of the curve to make money and beat pirates; even itunes (which has sucessfully tapped into the new demographic) was preceded by napster.

Moving out of childish discussion again...

~FrienD~
April 24, 2010, 12:31 AM
so we really don't need to worry since scanlation is safe?, but how do we get raws when p2p sharing/and other sharing method will be banned in jap?

fdbgdg
April 24, 2010, 01:48 AM
so we really don't need to worry since scanlation is safe?, but how do we get raws when p2p sharing/and other sharing method will be banned in jap?

buy the magazines at kinokuniya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_Kinokuniya) or from some online site if the raws don't seem to surface.

4roses
April 27, 2010, 12:11 PM
Shueisha should open up compenies in america europe etc. where they can sell theyre mag in those native tong . thanks to the internet the number of manga fans keep growing and a lot of profit could be made. who doesnt whant theyre fav manga be sent each week like japan. japan is a lot smaller if you compare it to the world who also have people who reads manga and dont want to wait months or years. its even hard to find it at stores and sometimes it isnt even the ones you want to read much less buy it. they should open up branch compenies outside japan there are a lott of potential buyers outside japan who wish to read there favorite series since they dont sell it theyre countries

Sensei 12
April 27, 2010, 12:25 PM
But... but... don't worry :D

A lot of raws are available on other sites, irc channels etcetera :D
Scanlations will never die!

jamjamstyle
April 28, 2010, 02:31 AM
Mangastream got the attention of Viz thanks to the recently released Iphone app and has received a C&D as result.

From their forum:


Many of you already noticed that our new iPhone app disappeared last Friday. Gratisites (our app's developer) and Apple received requests from VIZ Media, LLC to remove their titles from our application.

Since we scanlate 12 series, and 9 of them are VIZ Media properties, we decided to just take down the entire application from distribution.

They have also requested that their titles be removed from the MangaStream Android application, which will be done at the API level on Thursday April 29th.

It's unfortunate, but we understand and respect VIZ Media's position.

BBB Banana
April 28, 2010, 02:47 AM
No more early Naruto and bleach and bakuman? :( It was so nice to have them at wednesday night.

Sensei 12
April 28, 2010, 03:09 AM
No more early Naruto and bleach and bakuman? :( It was so nice to have them at wednesday night.

No :p
They care about the iPhone app, not about the scans. If someone pays for something that is FREE, and this thing is property of Viz :D, the scans would be illegal. It's not legal earn from scans, i think :eyeroll

LeDuck
April 28, 2010, 03:57 AM
What bugs me, is that they asked for the app ( more than understandable ), but they didn't want the manga to be removed (At least this wasn't mentioned in the text). I think it would be nice for the scanlations to stay up, since the raws seems to be much more of a problem.

Kaiten
April 28, 2010, 10:35 AM
Shueisha should open up compenies in america europe etc. where they can sell theyre mag in those native tong . thanks to the internet the number of manga fans keep growing and a lot of profit could be made. who doesnt whant theyre fav manga be sent each week like japan. japan is a lot smaller if you compare it to the world who also have people who reads manga and dont want to wait months or years. its even hard to find it at stores and sometimes it isnt even the ones you want to read much less buy it. they should open up branch compenies outside japan there are a lott of potential buyers outside japan who wish to read there favorite series since they dont sell it theyre countries

Japan is not exactly a small country. Almost 130,000,000 people make it the 10th largest in the world ;)

Shueisha co-owns VIZ with Shogakukan. Naruto and One Piece are very close to caught up in the monthly U.S. edition of Shonen Jump. The odds of a weekly magazine containing every series currently in Weekly Jump is very, very small as manga magazines seem to do very poorly here. Shonen Jump is the only one still published; Shojo Beat and Yen Plus have already folded. VIZ is experimenting with online magazines for IKKI (http://www.sigikki.com/) and Shonen Sunday (http://www.shonensunday.com/top.shtml). Neither are used to catch up to Japan but to give fans a chance to read whole volumes before they buy. Maybe at some point licensed series will be caught up to Japan via legitimate online readers, not yet. Personally I would rather have the opportunity to read series that are ignored by scanlators then new chapters from WSJ, which IKKI and to a lesser extent Shonen Sunday sites provide.

Alterno
May 05, 2010, 10:52 AM
Old quote edited on request, new qoute even more informative about this matter.

Please don't post about the recent spoiler rule changes in here guys. The change was done to protect our site from legal authorities aswell as prevent that we're eventually getting in trouble for 'visibly hosting' raws when a full raw is posted pic by pic in a post. This is not something we want to do, but is done to keep ourselves on the safe side. I'm sure most of you are aware of the recent complaint that came from Sueisha regarding raw uploading on the web before the official releases. This is just another measure against that. I hope you all can understand this as it's done in all of our best interest. The recent spoiler changes aren't that big a deal after all, there's still the possibility to post a few pictures, and post links to the raws like we've always done. The only difference is that we'll not allow a full raw upload anymore with [img] codes. For those having missed it HERE's our announcement about the overall changes. And HERE's the thread with info on this whole issue.

Keep on discussing the spoilers

But there's any need to delete post who just talk about being disappointed about this decision, come on that's just childish... "WTB FREE EXPRESSION". Don't panic, is not like due someone posting about this "hard"decision would make Sueisha sue or chase you. We know you are trying to protect yourselves and that's logical move till you guys figure everything out. We support you.

I see ZIV doing similar actions against scanlations in the near future, doing the same request and pressure, when that happens..We will stand by you, if you are not so afraid to stand with us


Is really sad to see this happening and how it is affecting our community, i'm glad ch2 still posting the spoiler images and scripts, that's a good thing.. but a sad move. I mean it would be amazing if Sueisha make the most of it and work with sites instead of working against it.

A lot of profit could be made side to side, by releasing the chapters for free, i know a comic sites of freelance artist that makes a lot of money by releasing chapters for free and get paid by advertisement.

Alterno
July 19, 2010, 05:27 PM
someone should scanlate the image.