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neild
April 16, 2010, 02:18 AM
in the last page of chapter 581, don flamingo is ordered to eliminate moria. the order came from someone/a group with higher rank than sengoku, obviously stronger than don flamingo, or the three admiral as well. what kind of power does this marine posses? or who is stronger/have higher rank than sengoku?i believe this marine is the man behind the curtain for the void century accident, also the one who is responsible for ohara incident. are they those 5 people group [that holds sword] i'm talking about? i dont know.what do u guys think? if anyone can post pic, that would be nice

in other related noted, i think the rank for strong marine is something like this:
1. sengoku
2. akainu
3. kizaru
4. ao kiji
5. smoker
6. garp
7. coby
8. tashigi
9. hemelpo

and my final question about the marine. they seemed so strong, will they be luffy's final opponent? [i mean the strongest marine vs luffy, or luffy's pirates vs world government/marineford]

Marche
April 16, 2010, 05:32 AM
Now I think:
1) Aokiji (I think than that was mentioned by the Gorosei).
2) Sengoku or Garp (I think than they are on the same level).
3) Akainu.
4) Kizaru.

But I think than Garp when he was younger was the best, and I also think than (also if we didn't knew) than he is the only marine who has King's haki.

undertoe
April 16, 2010, 08:51 AM
1. Jango
2. Fullbody
3. (Former) Axe-hand Morgan

Spaceman-Spiff
April 16, 2010, 12:55 PM
in the last page of chapter 581, don flamingo is ordered to eliminate moria. the order came from someone/a group with higher rank than sengoku, obviously stronger than don flamingo, or the three admiral as well. what kind of power does this marine posses? or who is stronger/have higher rank than sengoku?i believe this marine is the man behind the curtain for the void century accident, also the one who is responsible for ohara incident. are they those 5 people group [that holds sword] i'm talking about? i dont know.what do u guys think? if anyone can post pic, that would be nice

It's safe to assume the order came from the Gorosei (World government)

Fox666
April 16, 2010, 12:59 PM
1) Aokiji (I think than that was mentioned by the Gorosei).That was a mistranslation. The other Admirals have been called the same way. The translator them used later something like "mighties assault force"

Poneglyph420
April 16, 2010, 01:23 PM
in the last page of chapter 581, don flamingo is ordered to eliminate moria. the order came from someone/a group with higher rank than sengoku, obviously stronger than don flamingo, or the three admiral as well. what kind of power does this marine posses? or who is stronger/have higher rank than sengoku?i believe this marine is the man behind the curtain for the void century accident, also the one who is responsible for ohara incident. are they those 5 people group [that holds sword] i'm talking about? i dont know.what do u guys think? if anyone can post pic, that would be nice

in other related noted, i think the rank for strong marine is something like this:
1. sengoku
2. akainu
3. kizaru
4. ao kiji
5. smoker
6. garp
7. coby
8. tashigi
9. hemelpo

and my final question about the marine. they seemed so strong, will they be luffy's final opponent? [i mean the strongest marine vs luffy, or luffy's pirates vs world government/marineford]

I'm not really sure Doflamingo has lifted a finger (See what I did there.. hee hee :p) But sure seems like the directive to eliminate Moria is coming from beyond the hierarchy of the Marines. I'd say the Gorousei gave the order.. And otherwise it could be Vegapunk.. (I'm getting a sense he might not be a nice guy) But it's clearly coming from beyond the strata of the Marines...
Since Sengoku's the Boss afterall...

And interesting Marine Rankings....

IMO.. Garp prolly is still the strongest, just too much of a loose cannon..
I'm not sure how it's so easy to rank marines.... So many we haven't seen do much of anything, and even more we haven't seen pushed to their limit...


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/thumb/6/6d/Gorousei.jpg/460px-Gorousei.jpg

There's your GOROUSEI Pic... 5 people group.... Thanks for that.

modoki
April 16, 2010, 10:03 PM
garp made a quote he has been fighting pirates since luffy was born.
and during that time even aokiji looked up to him.

No doubt garp is probably #1

NoLimit89
April 16, 2010, 10:27 PM
Garp > ALL

He turned down the admiral position when Sengoku was an admiral.

bittman
April 16, 2010, 10:41 PM
1. Three Admirals
2. Garp
3. Sengoku
4. Insert Vice Admirals and Sentomaru here
5. Smoker

Something like that. You'll see I put admirals above Garp and Sengoku, of course both Garp and Sengoku are seriously still more reputation than display. But look at the admirals this way:

Akainu - suffered two direct earthquakes to his body, one of which split Marineford in two. He still got up a minute later and proceeded to mop the floor with everything in his path. In the direct battles with Whitebeard, they appeared very close to equal, and you could argue the most damage done to WB was from Akainu.

Kizaru - one of two people in this war who received no real damage (other being Doflaming) despite fighting many high class enemies. Never seen taking anything seriously, and fires GODDAM LASER BEAMS!

Aokoji - Freezes the sea. Freezes you. If you get frozen, almost then a guarenteed loss. Jozu fought Aokoji, made him bleed from the mouth a little, but then was instantly K.O'ed and lost an arm. Possibly one of the worst people to battle against if the battle drags on.

All ridiculously powerful, I couldn't tell you who is above who honestly. (though Aokoji feels like he just loses out to the other two). That and I believe Sengoku and Garp are well past their prime despite being legends in their own right, they are the older age.

kangclaw
April 17, 2010, 11:05 AM
The marines work for the WG. The WG have many organizations working for them, one of them is Marines, another is the Impel Down and its forces, another is the CP9. The Shichibukai only takes orders from the Gorousei. The Gorousei are the leaders of the WG, and I think they decided they wanted Moria gone.

In the Marines in terms of strength are:
1) Garp:
I am guessing he is the strongest because he is Dragon's father and Luffy's grandfather. Yes, he is a loose cannon but that also indicates his strength that the Marines allow him to be.

2) Sengoku:
other than Garp, Sengoku is by far the strongest. Garp and Sengoku were the closest people guarding Ace on the platform. The most important position.The war was a success for the Marines: they were able to kill WB and Ace, and the person in charge of the Operation was Sengoku and for him it was a success.

3) The Three Admirals are the next strongest. No need for explanation on this.

4) The Vice Admirals and also Sentomaru.

Uriel
April 18, 2010, 12:55 PM
You know, bittman said exactly what I was thinking. In particular, Kizaru is the one that scares me the most because his speed. Aikanu is powerful, but magma has a long list of weakness to be used against.

neild
April 18, 2010, 01:33 PM
now that i have remembered some of the marines told in one piece, here is my revised rank of strength, with the name mentioned on the top being the strongest, while the one mentioned at the bottom is the weakest:
gorosei [all 5 members are [presumably have the same power]
sengoku
akainu
kizaru
ao kiji
smoker
garp
coby [after he reaches his full potential....if not he will rank below the vice admirals]
tashigi
Vice Admirals
hemelpo
Axe-hand Morgan
Jango
Fullbody



i think the idea of sengokus being weaker than 3 admirals is hard to accept, being a boss means he is stronger or smarter than vice admirals, or else how would he control those 3 strong beasts??how can the admirals respect them or even listen what sengoku has to say? anyway look how easy he single-handily destroy the blackbread pirates, in one punch,making all of them bleed blood. if luffy can reach a level like that, he can defeat [in my pre-assumed theory that says blackbeard is luffy's final enemy] blackbeard and HIS WHOLE CREW alone...yup..
maybe the power of 3 admirals are strong, but there is a reason sengoku is ranked differently than those 3, if not, he will just be the 4th admiral,the reason?he is stronger.period

now for the 3 admirals power, i will have to say akainu is the strongest, because he is always drawn in the center of three admirals, while they were standing together.and akainu will defineltly rule aokiji with lava vs ice power.ice will melt.i dunno about light vs lava...but the lava itself is a very strong power.it is the material that helped make our continents shaped like nowadays, make mountains, and others.since the core is strong, i will say akainu is strong either. unless kizaru's light is sourced from the sun, i will pick akainu as the strongest for now.so akainu>kizaru>aokiji



who is sentomaru???
i think gorosei doesnt have fighting power, they are oracles.the five of them combine their power together to make predictions and just have higher ranks to help predict things for marine.
but if gorosei can fight, i think maybe the first person from the left is the strongest [from the pic above]
[hr]
revised rank of strength after remembering 2 additional marines character, with the name mentioned on the top being the strongest, while the one mentioned at the bottom is the weakest:
gorosei [all 5 members are [presumably have the same power]
sengoku
akainu
kizaru
ao kiji
smoker
garp
Sentomaru
coby [after he reaches his full potential....if not he will rank below the vice admirals]
tashigi
Vice Admirals
Tenryuubito
hemelpo
Axe-hand Morgan
Jango
Fullbody

Roarchu
April 18, 2010, 03:42 PM
Young Garp would beat all I think. Even young Sengoku, because even if they're equal in power, I think Garp has kinda like a Luffy no-lose attitude, that would be the difference

The admirals are insanely powerful. But I don't think we know enough about how Haki can be used to fight to say they're the strongest.

let's have a poll

I'll try to list the characters that could be the strongest

Sengoku
Garp
Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Sentomaru (he's not really a marine tho, is he? Vegapunk works for the WG, not the marines)
Smoker (future prime)
Coby (future prime)
Vegapunk (I guess we count anyone in the WG, it could be that punk is strong)
Magellan (wait, he's not a marine either. oh well)

I don't think anyone else could be in the list....maybe i forgot someone, but make a poll plz

chess4
April 18, 2010, 03:52 PM
this question is kinda hard to answer since we havent seen most of the VA in action yet, but the top fighters are as followed.

garp and sengoku. they are cut from the same cloth as rogers and WB. they get the most respect and the no doubt the strongest bottom line.


next you have the 3 admirals- its hard yo put one above the other. they all have strengths and weaknesses, but akainu is more cut throat than the others.

we have only seen a couple of VA in action, and only for snippet. im sure one of them is next but i will have to reserve judgement until i see more of them.



outside of the groups i just named, its a toss up between smoker and magellan

Kaiser Will
April 18, 2010, 07:11 PM
It´s definitely Garp and Sengoku.
I mean they fought Roger and WB at their prime!

Then come the 3 Admirals.
If you wanna know in what base I made this assumption of strength click here. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/575/06-07/)

Bugzee
April 18, 2010, 08:34 PM
For me:

1. Garp (He was the only ONE who cornered Roger on several occasions not Sengoku.)
2. Sengoku
3. The Admirals (A. Akainu, B. Kizaru, C. Aokiji)

neild
April 19, 2010, 02:16 AM
ya but i think garp is too old now, he is weakened by age.sengoku seems fresh as ever

bittman
April 19, 2010, 06:43 AM
Few people saying Garp and Sengoku, and I don't doubt they're not impressive in feats and what we've seen so far. I mean, Garp is known to have chased Roger all over (and you don't run from someone you can easily defeat), and Sengoku is respected by Whitebeard for his strength and experience. Garp has been shown to be easily beyond Luffy, but pulled his punches, and Sengoku blasted the entire BB crew with one attack.

BUT: They are the last generation. If there's anything the WB war told me, it's that they are remnants of a world gone. This kind of gets into how I interpreted WB's strength as, though the "strongest man in the world", I believed him to be weaker than all the admirals individually, but fortunately was backed by a strong crew.

Akainu was the only admiral we really got a "GREAT" display of in the war, and he was WB's level without a doubt.

But now that I've typed all this about "the last generation", logistically speaking the 3 admirals are most likely the last generation, Garp and Sengoku are two generations ago and people like Smoker and Coby are the current generation.

Japanese mangas typically hit a point somewhere in the story where a line comes out like "Each new generation will surpass the last", and if this is to be the case then the 3 admirals should have already surpassed the last, whilst the current generation is climbing up towards them.

On the poll: "Who will be the strongest marine?" is a bit of a strange question. I mean, "will be" would most likely point to Smoker or Coby, because by the time they're strong Sengoku and Garp will be on IV drips. If we're talking "in their prime", then it's impossible to compare.

Nevertheless I voted Akainu. He has been the most impressive this far in my eyes, but then again I'm comparing him to Garp and Sengoku (who attacked twice each in total), Kizaru (who jokes about everything) and Aokoji (who I can't pick at all. One second he's been injured by Jozu, next second he instantly K.O's him).

Gorousei will not be strong. They're politicians, or "kings"/royalty. Like rating the Tenryuubito as strong, and we know that almost anyone that can fight is better than them.

Kaiser Will
April 19, 2010, 08:39 AM
For me:

1. Garp (He was the only ONE who cornered Roger on several occasions not Sengoku.)
2. Sengoku
3. The Admirals (A. Akainu, B. Kizaru, C. Aokiji)

You seem to misunderstood what I said.
Sengoku was an Admiral at WB and Roger era and it´s only logical that they maybe have fought at least once otherwise in the talk between Shanks and WB, he wouldn't have acknowlegde Sengoku strength.
I know that's this can't be taken as parameter but Sengoku and Garp fought Leo and they handle him pretty well, taking this fact based on the Edd War, if that storm didn't happen, the battle outcame would be completely diferent. But, again, this is just an assumption of my thoughts.

Besides that the Gorusei isn't part of the Marine Corps in the OP world.
In fact they control them, just see the last chapter (581) for understand that.

undertoe
April 19, 2010, 09:38 AM
@Bittman: They may be of the last generation, but even Rayleigh was able to fight Kizaru to a standstill, and he was only Roger's first-mate. Garp is presumably even stronger than Rayleigh, since he fought on near-equal ground with Roger. There's a good chance he's stronger than Akainu.

ScratchmenApoo
April 19, 2010, 09:40 AM
Well Gorousei aren't really the strongest "marines" by definition, because they are a seperate group, but on the "good" side, I believe they are the strongest (Even though they are old - so are Garp and Sengoku - look how badass they are).
The strongest marine, however, I think is Garp.

THM Nindo
April 19, 2010, 09:48 AM
Garp and Sengoku are certainly at the top for me.
We all know that Garp was "admiral potential" for so long.

And we saw a bit of what Sengoku can do (make everyone from the Blackbeard pirates" bleed with a simple palm strike to the air).

Next are the admiral...
I can't tell which one is the strongest between Kizaru and Aikanu, but Aokiji is definitely the weakest of the three.

BetaRuler
April 19, 2010, 12:27 PM
Umm... Marines right... So why the Gorousei and Sentoumaru? If I'm right, isn't Sentoumaru just Vegapunks bodyguard? And Vegapunk isn't a marine, just like CP1 to CP9 aren't marines, So they technically don't come into this poll right?

Personally, I think it's a toss-up between Garp, Sengoku and the Admirals, I might dare say Aokiji is currently the strongest.

frontaLobotomy
April 19, 2010, 12:30 PM
I ranked the top three as: 1-Sengoku 2-Garp 3-Admirals.

bittman
April 19, 2010, 06:14 PM
@Bittman: They may be of the last generation, but even Rayleigh was able to fight Kizaru to a standstill, and he was only Roger's first-mate. Garp is presumably even stronger than Rayleigh, since he fought on near-equal ground with Roger. There's a good chance he's stronger than Akainu.

You mean Kizaru, the playful monkey? One of two people who remained completely uninjured through the war? If you look at the fight again, Kizaru jokes with Rayleigh that he's doing quite well to hold him back from taking out the Strawhats, but even then the battle was on an extremely short term and you can see Rayleigh sweating.

Plus, there's nothing anywhere to say that Rayleigh isn't just as strong as Roger. We've seen a lot of first-mates in our time, and the difference between them and the captain is usually very very small, if even existant. Given what we've seen and heard of Rayleigh, and what we know about first mates, Rayleigh is probably comparable in strength to Roger. But once again, he's 22 years past his prime.

And you're comparing someone who was in his prime, to someone who is in his prime (garp vs Akainu). In Garp's prime, it's very likely he was stronger than Akainu given what we've heard about Garp. So if the poll was "Who has been the strongest marine in their prime?" I would think about this a lot more and probably end up voting for Garp.

As it stands, I can't go past Akainu. Might just be my interpretation of events though.

Fox666
April 19, 2010, 09:29 PM
1. Sengoku
A shockwave that made level 6 prisoners, Blackbeard and Shiryu bleed?
2. Garp
Very strong, would be promoted to Admiral, seems confident that he could kill Akainu.
3. Akainu
Unstoppable force and will.
4. Kizaru
His power is cheater, but he is too confused and a little absent mind.
5. Aokiji
His freezing ability reaches and unbelievable range. But he seems slow, in both literal and metaphoric means.
6. Smoker
Tough guy, but has big limitations compared to the Admirals.
7. Sentoumaru
Good skills and Haki ability.
8. Vice Admirals

Tashigi, Coby and Helmeppo are a bit weak. I would never put them in that list.

tobeulp
April 19, 2010, 09:57 PM
1.Garp
2.Sengoku
3.Admirals
4.VA
5.Pacifista ^^

@bittman
There is no way in hell that Akainu is stronger than Garp because Garp even said that he will kill Akainu but Sengoku stop him that proves that Garp can kill Akainu at ease and Sengoku knows that.

Warlord90
April 20, 2010, 11:49 AM
Pacifista aren't Marines. The WG manipulates them. Anyway, the strongest Marines are of course Garp and Sengoku. They have Haki, are super strong and are true heroes.

bittman
April 20, 2010, 06:34 PM
@bittman
There is no way in hell that Akainu is stronger than Garp because Garp even said that he will kill Akainu but Sengoku stop him that proves that Garp can kill Akainu at ease and Sengoku knows that.

Garp saying that he's going to kill someone means nothing. Luffy wanted to send Aokoji flying, he wasn't able to. I never got the impression Garp was confident he could kill Akainu, or that Sengoku was afraid Garp would actually do it. My interpretation of the events was something like:

1) Garp was pissed off that Akainu had killed his grandson. A reaction any less than wanting to kill the killer would be a joke to the emotional Garp.

2) He asked Sengoku to hold him down to stop him from killing Akainu. This isn't confidence he can kill Akainu, it's blind rage that he wants Sengoku to keep in check for him.

3) Sengoku held Garp down because a marine-on-marine battle, especially one between two of the strongest marines, would ruin the entire war. In that sort of confusion Whitebeard could escape, or Sengoku could lose more of his forces.

If Garp could kill Akainu that easily, then he is 3 levels above Whitebeard. If Sengoku was holding down Garp that easily, then he's three levels above Garp. (Neither of which makes sense, because that makes Sengoku >>>>>> Whitebeard) "Easily"/"ease"/"easy" are not words that should be used when comparing the strength of people in the top tier of One Piece. Whitebeard had tons of disadvantages, but was not easy to take down. By the same token, the admirals went up Whitebeard and he was unable to take any of them down for any long period (Akainu the closest to being defeated got back up a couple of minutes later).

Point is: really any fighter in the "top tier" when pit against another of that tier will not have an easy victory. Even Akainu vs Aokoji, where Akainu would have a clear elemental advantage, would most likely be a long battle that ends up very close.

Roarchu
April 20, 2010, 06:58 PM
I don't think Akainu was as strong or almost as strong as Whitebeard, im talking about old WB, not WB in his prime

Even though Akainu kept saying that he was fighting too wildly I think he was holding back. Whitebeard couldn't just randomly send earthquakes whatever way. He's not the kind of guy that would take out his own guys, he had to be careful not to take out his own. While Akainu didn't care if he killed some of his men in the process as long as he killed WB. That's a big advantage

Also, he got stabbed. That took a lot out of him. Akainu was almost totally fresh or whatever. He would've beaten (or at least kept up a long battle with) Akainu before he could further hurt him (and caused Marco and Jozu to get distracted). Seriously, if WB hadn't gotten stabbed by Squardo the marines would've gotten their butts seriously whooped.

...or at least we would've seen more Garp and Sengoku, maybe they would've just retreated after saving Ace. And the WG would look stupid and I would've liked that...just gotta wait until Luffy does it, I look forward to it, damn WG

goldb
April 24, 2010, 04:27 AM
Why are the Gorosei on that list :(??? that's a bit strange. A lot of votes for Coby, but even After his brief display I'm gonna go with Sengoku.

Lord Rayleigh
April 25, 2010, 08:07 AM
Point is: really any fighter in the "top tier" when pit against another of that tier will not have an easy victory. Even Akainu vs Aokoji, where Akainu would have a clear elemental advantage, would most likely be a long battle that ends up very close.

I agree with what you've said with Garp and Akainu. Anyway, that does not mean no easy victory is possible among the strongest people. When someone's got a super destructive power, if he hits his enemy, he will finish him quickly. A monster's body is still flesh and bones, and a " human with an heart ", as Whitebeard said.
There are various examples : Magellan with the BB pirates, Whitebeard with John Giant, Aokiji with Jose, Akainu with Ace (and Jimbei)...

bittman
April 27, 2010, 12:45 AM
Hmm, out of all those battles I think there was always a non-top tier character in the battle.

When I'm talking TOP TIER, I'm talking people that are almost living legends due to their power. Whitebeard, Mihawk, Sengoku, Garp, 3 Admirals, Shanks, etc. These are people I class as "top tier".

BB Pirates (pre-Shiryuu + 4 ID + gura gura) = "high tier", but not top
Jozu = high, not top
John Giant = ??? (honestly didn't see enough of him, I'd expect high given he's a VA with some renown)
Ace = high, not top
Jimbei = high, not top

Now I'm not saying that any top tier will easily beat a high tier contender. Again I'm going to go with a pokemon analogy (liking them recently), and under the right conditions, an infernape (OU tier) can beat a Ho-Oh (Uber tier). However higher tiers usually have an advantage over the tiers below them, and the potential to OHKO, or at least be unfazed, by those in lower tiers.

Aokoji can OHKO people in a lower tier (Jozu), but still receive noticable damage and not have a relatively "easy" time with him. Similar thing applies across the board a bit.

What I'm saying is that "easy" victory rarely exists within the same tier, but may exist across tiers. No-one should claim that WB would have easily beaten Akainu if he didn't have a stab wound. Heck, I saw no-one else in this war get up after 1, let alone two quakes. John Giant was unable to return after 1, he cannot possibly be classed as top tier. Aokoji, Kizaru, Sengoku and Garp all would have been able to get up after one quake at least.

Whitebeard is like my new measuring stick...

Dark God Zeus
April 27, 2010, 01:02 AM
As far as destructive power goes......Akainu. Sengoku is a close 2nd though. And then Kizaru.

As far as pure 1 vs 1 strength. Has to be Sengoku.

THM Nindo
April 27, 2010, 02:03 PM
Why are the Gorosei on that list :(??? that's a bit strange. A lot of votes for Coby, but even After his brief display I'm gonna go with Sengoku.

It all depends of which question you want to ask...
The question above is : who WILL be the strongest?

In that case, a lot of people would be thinking of Coby, since we know he will become admiral someday.

But right now, Coby is nowhere near that level.

Fox666
April 28, 2010, 05:45 AM
I don't think Akainu was as strong or almost as strong as Whitebeard, im talking about old WB, not WB in his prime

Even though Akainu kept saying that he was fighting too wildly I think he was holding back. Whitebeard couldn't just randomly send earthquakes whatever way. He's not the kind of guy that would take out his own guys, he had to be careful not to take out his own. While Akainu didn't care if he killed some of his men in the process as long as he killed WB. That's a big advantage

Also, he got stabbed. That took a lot out of him. Akainu was almost totally fresh or whatever. He would've beaten (or at least kept up a long battle with) Akainu before he could further hurt him (and caused Marco and Jozu to get distracted). Seriously, if WB hadn't gotten stabbed by Squardo the marines would've gotten their butts seriously whooped.

...or at least we would've seen more Garp and Sengoku, maybe they would've just retreated after saving Ace. And the WG would look stupid and I would've liked that...just gotta wait until Luffy does it, I look forward to it, damn WGBut you must remember that Akainu was not take down by Whitebeard, Akainu target was Ace/Luffy, and he succeeded in chasing while Whitebeard was trying to stop that. So the truth is that the Whitebeard stabbed by Squad was defeated twice by Akainu.

By the way, the Gura Gura no Mi has a good aiming. I think that if Whitebeard did not wanted to hurt his own men, he could easily do it without loosing combat power. The Gura Gura no Mi has it's limitations, it could not pass the siege wall, and as so it would probably not work on the Pacifistas...

OdaForPresident
April 29, 2010, 03:07 AM
I'm thinking that Ao Kiji will (at some point) replace Sengoku as the top marine. After that Coby will at some point take over. I don't think Smoker will become fleet admiral, he doesn't care about position, so long as it enables him to do what he wants. In that respect Smoker will be like Garp, become a vice-admiral and decline any futher promotion.

I really hope that Aikanu kicks the bucket sometime soon, I hate that guy. If he were to replace Sengoku, the marines would really become an evil organization (or extreme justice if you will). Remember that Aikanu was also the one who blew up the refugee ship at Ohara.

Admirals: The good (Ao Kiji), the bad (Aikanu), and the ugly (Kizaru).

goldb
April 29, 2010, 10:41 AM
I'm thinking that Ao Kiji will (at some point) replace Sengoku as the top marine. After that Coby will at some point take over. I don't think Smoker will become fleet admiral, he doesn't care about position, so long as it enables him to do what he wants. In that respect Smoker will be like Garp, become a vice-admiral and decline any futher promotion.

I really hope that Aikanu kicks the bucket sometime soon, I hate that guy. If he were to replace Sengoku, the marines would really become an evil organization (or extreme justice if you will). Remember that Aikanu was also the one who blew up the refugee ship at Ohara.

Admirals: The good (Ao Kiji), the bad (Aikanu), and the ugly (Kizaru).

I don't think the WG would allow for Aokiji to become Fleet Admiral should anything happen to Sengoku. Though I don't doubt that he would make a fine Fleet Admiral but I doubt he'd even want to take the position, he seems to laid back and goes off a lot, whereas being Fleet Admiral is a lot responsibility and requires others to know exactly where you are 24/7 so you can be reached in case of an emergency.

I think that position would go to Kizaru, Akainu is a bit reckeless, though his sense of justice seems to be a bit closer to Sengoku than the other 2 I think, I think the WG wouldn't give it to him because they'd fear what he'd do with the power and how he'd treat his subordinates, well we all know what he thinks of weaklings...

On topic now, I still stand by my decision that Sengoku is currently the strongest Marine, closely followed by Garp and the admirals in no particular order, otherwise he wouldn't be Fleet Admiral would he; he needs to be strong enough to handle his subordinate when needed.

OdaForPresident
May 02, 2010, 07:32 AM
Apparently the Gorosei seem to think that Aokiji is the strongest marine at marine hq: http://beta.onemanga.com/One_Piece/303/19/.

Akainu
May 02, 2010, 07:48 AM
No. That's a quite common misconception in One Piece. All the other admirals share the same description being "the strongest fighting force" go here (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Mythbusters/Misunderstandings_and_Mistranslations#Aokiji_is_the_Strongest) for further reading

firework
May 02, 2010, 08:51 PM
1. sengoku
2. Garp
3. Kizaru (his haxed ability puts him ahead of Akainu)
4. Akainu
5. Aokiji
6. Sentoumaru/Smoker/ VA (i really want to put Smoker higher though; i think he will eventually be Admiral level+)
7. Hina
8. captains, commodores and below
9. Coby + fodder

If Magellan counts, then he'd probably be around 5.5, i actually consider his abilities to be on par with admirals

Roarchu
May 02, 2010, 11:37 PM
I don't think the VA's (besides Garp) are all that. I mean, they're really strong, but I don't think they're as strong as Lucci.

In Ennies Lobby where 5 VA's showed up Oda still gave us the vibe that Lucci was a lot more badass than them. look how they talk about Lucci http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/422/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/422/09/ (notice the sweat drop!)

who is a VA that is at average VA level? Like imagine Momonga or that dalmatian guy fighting 1 on 1 against Lucci. I really don't see Lucci losing. Momonga and the dalmatian guy use Rokushiki, didn't they make all this fuss about Lucci being such a great master of Rokushiki? I mean, would there have been all this hype about Lucci if his Rokushiki wasn't at least significantly above the VA's (who mainly use Rokushiki)?

So I think Lucci is above average VA, making Luffy above average VA

I remember someone saying "how could that be? that'd mean that beneath Garp, Sengoku and Admirals nobody's competent enough to take on pirates on the New World!" Well yeah that's how it sounds, but don't you guys remember how they talked about the Grand Line being the pirates' graveyard and all that? It was definetely more dangerous than the East Blue, but all the hype that was give to the Grand Line made me think it'd be more dangerous.

goldb
May 03, 2010, 09:06 AM
We haven't seen any of the Vice- Admirals fight enough to compare their strengths and you can't go with that link to say that he is above VA strength. Imo Rob Lucci would be Rear-Admiral level.

Franckie
May 04, 2010, 02:42 PM
1. sengoku
2. Garp
3. Kizaru (his haxed ability puts him ahead of Akainu)
4. Akainu
5. Aokiji
6. Sentoumaru/Smoker/ VA (i really want to put Smoker higher though; i think he will eventually be Admiral level+)
7. Hina
8. captains, commodores and below
9. Coby + fodder

If Magellan counts, then he'd probably be around 5.5, i actually consider his abilities to be on par with admirals

I disagree with Sengoku and Garp being stronger than the 3 Admirals. Sengoku and Garp have gotten old, their current feats don't stack up to what any of the Admirals have shown, and the 3 Admirals have been repeatedly stated to be the strongest marines.

shluffy
May 06, 2010, 09:31 PM
Why are the Gorosei on that list :(??? that's a bit strange. A lot of votes for Coby, but even After his brief display I'm gonna go with Sengoku.

Why? If you look at their appearances, 3 of them have scars and one of them carries a samurai. It would seem that they have fighting experience and I would assume that they are REALLY REALLY strong to be at the top of the WG.

BlackHair
May 06, 2010, 10:02 PM
Well going by this thread name, the Gorusaia don't belong into that poll. Since they are not within the marine. They represent a political power not a fighting power. So while I expect them to have some skills, I don't see them with high-tier strength.

Im with Garp as the strongest Marine, slightly behind him Sengoku then the Admirals. While Kiz seems to be the strongest, since his logia is just hax.

The Don Master T
May 06, 2010, 11:13 PM
I voted coby because the ? is who will be the strongest marine not who is the strongest marine

as to my answer to who is the current strongest I would put the fleet admiral and garp on top followed by the admirals because to me had it only been the admirals vs White Beard white beard would have wiped the floor with them as powerful as the admirals were WB was like 5 times stronger then all of them and we didn't get to see garp get serious at all during the battle climax of him was yelling at luffy and wondering if he had made to wrong choice about allowing this to happen to ace sengkou didn't reall get a chance to go all out either but the admirals pull out a huge parian of there power in order to just battle the WB division captions and only got the upper hand because of the div capts be to worried about WB's condition so I put garp and sengkou above them for now

BlackHair
May 07, 2010, 12:17 AM
I voted coby because the ? is who will be the strongest marine not who is the strongest marineDamn made a mistake there. Well in that case my vote goes also to Coby or maybe Smoker not sure. Anyway it seems though that quite a few ppl made a mistake here xD

Tinori
May 07, 2010, 01:01 AM
Don't care about the rest, Akainu is the strongest marine. We shouldn't assume the others are stronger simply because of rank.

Akainu have shown us how strong he is and he won the war for the marines. He took an everyone and won. He's merciless and no hesitation makes him a scary opponent to go up against. Even if Garp is stronger I feel he is weak because he doesn't have to balls to stand up against the marines or help them in their fight. He simply sits back and does nothing.

Who would scare you more? a guy comes in charging merciless with killing intent or some guy who sits back and talk.

Akainu is strongest marine. He will move up after this war.

Fox666
May 07, 2010, 02:19 AM
Garp would be aside with Sengoku to make sure noone enter the execution platform.

Later when Ace was rescued, there was nothing left for him. And he would not join with Akainu in a killing spree of the remaining Whitebeard pirates.

BlackHair
May 07, 2010, 02:49 AM
Who would scare you more? a guy comes in charging merciless with killing intent or some guy who sits back and talk.Well this is not about the scariest marine, but the strongest.

Garp wins in power-scaling and Akainu in feats, while Garp hast shown us nothing. I believe Oda is saving him for future plot, just like Mihawk and Flamingo.

Anyway, I believe Kizaru is stronger than Akainu. Since imo Magma is inferior to light.

Franckie
May 13, 2010, 08:42 PM
I don't see how this disproves my earlier post. The term strongest is used for the rank "Admiral", not for AoKiji or any other individual. In that case Garp and Sengoku shouldn't be excluded.
The higher-ups offered the rank "Admiral" to Aokiji, Kizaru, and Akainu because they're considered MHQ's most powerful fighters. What Garp and Sengoku were considered 22+ years ago is irrevelent.


I think it is pretty much clear that Oda is saving him for later. But you are right, he didn't show us anything. Neither his skills or trying and failing. Leaving Luffy vs Garp out.
Oda saving Garp for future plot developments doesn't equate to him being ridiculously powerful. More importantly, it's irrefutable that Garp didn't get any major hype in the past arc as the 3 Admirals did. WB even commented that Garp is a shadow of his former self.


It is hinted that Garp fought him evenly. Roger: "The two of us have killed each other many times. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/551/05/) I can't find a better conclusion than evenly.
WB was the only one who could ever stalemate Roger in a fight, which means Garp never fought Roger to a draw. Roger was trying to make Garp think of them as friends when he said that, because he wanted Garp to take care of his kid.


Had to? No that's wrong. By Garp and Sengoku tag-teaming Shiki's loss was guaranteed. With that they won with less effort.

1) Same case with WG Alliance (MHQ + 7 Warlords) vs WB Alliance. The two forces of WG didn't had to fight together to beat the WB pirates. MHQ could have done the job on their own. It's just that by tag-teaming the success rate went up in their favour.

2) The Admirals didn't had to team up together (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/11/) to block one of WB's attack. It's just with three of them, they can do the job easier.

Taking on 2 of MHQ's elites counts as hype for Shiki. True, Shiki lost the battle, but the fact that Garp (who you subscribe as being Roger's equal) and Sengoku were unable to curbstomp him (half of Marineford was destroyed in their fight) gives a clear indication that neither Garp or Sengoku is individually more powerful than Shiki.

1) The "Balance of Power" is composed of armies duking it out with each other. 2vs1 is a different situation altogether.

2) The Admirals blocked WB's attack in order to protect the scaffhold. They wouldn't have bothered blocking the attack if they were engaging WB in a fight. And I shouldn't need to point out that current WB is in no position to take on 2 Admirals at the same time.


Almost every time Luffy's rubber intangibility was bypassed, there was a comment on that. Either from Luffy himself or of any other character.

BB vs Luffy - commented by Croco (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/544/06/)
Garp vs Luffy - commented by Sanji (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/)
Garp vs Luffy - commented by Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/)
Sento vs Luffy - commented by Chopper (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/14/)
Boa Sister vs Luffy - commented by Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/09/)
etc

You will have hard time finding comments of bypassing on Nami's hits. Sure as Garp punched Luffy in W7 his wound got big as Nami's, since the scene was for comedy purpose. But the damage of Garp's punch was real. Sanji's comment is proof of that. Without his comment, I would have agreed with you. Anyway, if you don't want to accept this, (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/) you will have to at least accept this (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/). On that page, there is no hint of comedy. Garp can use haki, that's proven fact by now. Sengoku can't use haki until said/displayed otherwise.

Fair enough. I'll concede on this particular matter. Still, even if Garp can use Haki, it's still no guarantee that he can defeat an Admiral as evidenced by Rayleigh vs Kizaru and Jozu vs Aokiji.


My argument: Garp should be around WB's equal level. Thus (slightly) stronger than the Admirals. Since none of the Admirals could have defeated WB in a fair 1vs1. Also he can use Haki to bypass intangibility. Anyway, enough off topic from me. Any further discussion will be posted by me in this thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59944).

My argument: Garp is weaker than WB's current level. Thus weaker than any of the Admirals. Since WB failed hard to pwn or even harm Admirals when he tried attacking them in a fair fight. The one time WB did succeed in harming an Admiral (jumping Akainu from behind and quaking the island in half during that attack), WB still failed hard at inflicting fatal damage on Akainu. Also, Garp using Haki to bypass intangibility will still prove difficult since the Admirals have been shown to be able to defend themselves from Haki.

Ashura_Ichibugin
May 14, 2010, 06:21 AM
WB was the only one who could ever stalemate Roger in a fight, which means Garp never fought Roger to a draw. Roger was trying to make Garp think of them as friends when he said that, because he wanted Garp to take care of his kid.


This does not make sense at all. Let's analyze what the says "The two of us have nearly killed each other so many times".

1) Garp would know if he nearly killed somebody. So, even if Roger tried to trick him, he wouldn't fall for it.

2) Moreover, he wouldn't try to make Garp think of them as friends; because if Roger thinks Garp does not think of them as friends, he wouldn't trust Ace to him.

3) Roger would know if somebody nearly killed him.

4) So many times means it is more than once, probably a lot more. So, it can't be due to some situational disadvantage, it can't be due to luck. They fought more or less equally.

5) Garp and Sengoku being the last line of defence in Ace's execution is an implication of their power levels.

undertoe
May 14, 2010, 06:55 AM
It's been made very clear in One Piece that strength fades very little, if at all, with age. I can't see any reason for people to assume that Sengoku and Garp are significantly weaker than they used to be. Furthermore, it has never been stated that the individual admirals are the strongest marines; it has only been stated that TOGETHER they are the strongest FORCE. Individually, it's possible that none of them is as strong as Garp or Sengoku.

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 14, 2010, 09:18 AM
it has only been stated that TOGETHER they are the strongest FORCE..

it was mentioned actually that aokiji was the strongest admiral at HQ , but was assumed to be a mistake .

BlackHair
May 14, 2010, 12:23 PM
What Garp and Sengoku were considered 22+ years ago is irrevelent.Until the reason behind Senkous promotion is said, I don't see it as irrelevant.

At that time, Garp was still not a developed character. Only about 4-5 years later, Oda started to develop Garp. Im not saying the Gorusai statement is unacceptable, but it is outdated. We have now new reasons to believe that the Admirals are not necessarily the strongest within the MHQ.


Oda saving Garp for future plot developments doesn't equate to him being ridiculously powerful. If it was just for saving, then clearly not. Otherwise anyone had the right to claim some random dude to be stronger than the Admirals. But it is not just saving.
He cornered several times the PK and was said to have near dead matches with him.
He is a D, refused to become a Admiral and carries the title Hero of the Marine. Going by the reaction of the WB pirates, that title must be linked to his battle and its achievements.I think it is more than clear that Garp is a extreme powerhouse on his own. He is a fighting power of the MHQ, not a tactician or w/e. So yes, Oda saving him makes me think that he is extremely powerful, same goes for Mihawk, who was also saved for future plot.



WB was the only one who could ever stalemate Roger in a fight, which means Garp never fought Roger to a draw. That was Buggy's statement. Im not denying it's credibility, but we have new reasons to believe that WB was not the only one.

Garp was said to have cornered Roger. He was also said to have chased Roger on every occasion. Furthermore Roger said he fought him several times to near dead. So from my point of view, you wouldn't fight to draw and run from someone if he is not extremely strong. Anyway, everything vast theories, since it was all Offpanel.

Same case for the Shiki's matter, it was also offpanel. Until we know their ability's (I didn't watch the movie yet) we (I) can't rly come to a conclusion. I mean the damage on the MHQ, could have been easily made by a destructive devil fruit (like Enel's for instance). So it doesn't have to mean anything.

Also I was earlier trying to point out that a tag team doesn't automatically mean Shiki > Sengoku or Garp. To me it just means that both of them together could beat Shiki with less effort, without going into all out mode. Thus the success-rate of the victory was more high. Same case for the two forces against one and three Admirals blocking one attack, I think u misunderstood my intention of those two examples.

Lastly I agree, Roger was trying to play Garp, but just based on that I don't think we can conclude that statement as a lie. If we consider that he cornered him several times and the other facts pointing towards him being strong, I believe Rogers statement was most likely true.



Since WB failed hard to pwn or even harm Admirals when he tried attacking them in a fair fight. The moment WB stepped down from his ship, nothing was fair anymore. One of his alliance-mate was played and WB ended up with a hole in his chest. I don't need to mention that before the vs Akainu fight, WB was multiple wounded by the marines. While Akainu was fresh, without any signs of damage. That battle was no way in hell fair. To me a fair fight means if both fighter fights on neutral battlefield, without any disadvantage for each and naturally both of them have to be fresh, without damages, exhaustion etc.

Yes Akainu was able to take half of his face, but WB was in a hurry. While for Akainu it was just vs WB, for WB it was more like vs MHQ. He needed to buy time for his crew's escape, while he was holding the entire MHQ. So he couldn't focus only on Akainu.

Now imagine, if it wasn't MHQ but just Akainu, don't you think WB would have jumped on and focused more attacks on him, even after he felled down? So not just 2 hits, but more, way more. I think it is pretty clear that Akainu couldn't fight anymore after the 2nd hit. That's why I can't imagine him surviving further hits, while WB who was shot and stabbed several times, who also lost his face and had a hole in his chest, was still not down.

The way I see it, WB wanted to take down Akainu as fast as possible (reasons: Ace and Crews safty), so he let him take his face, but landed two fast hits. Under normal condition the WB vs Akainu fight would have lasted way longer, WB wouldn't have lost his face in a few seconds and Akainu wouldn't have been defeated so early.

WB vs aynone displayed so far = WB -> the strongest man
WB vs 2 Admirals = Admirals

Anyway, it's not a secret that Im a WB-fanboy, but Im not pulling my arguments out of my ass. He portrayed his superiority, not to mention Oda did not make him lose in a fair 1vs1 fight. So I believe with that infobox labelling him as the strongest, was not a title, but rather a fact.

I can easily see this discussion turning to another WB vs BB debate, I would like to avoid that. Also I believe we are about to start repeating and discussing the same arguments, well I'm at least. Tbh I don't think we are able to change our opinion, no matter what argument we pull. So lets wait for Oda to answer this. With that I will stop posting on this matter, until I see new arguments or if some1 else quotes my posts. On a personal note, thx for ur pm and moving this discussion out of that thread. I dislike to go offtopic. :p




it was mentioned actually that aokiji was the strongest admiral at HQ , but was assumed to be a mistake .The term strongest is used for the rank "Admiral", not for AoKiji or any other individual. But note, Garp declined the rank Admiral and Sengoku was promoted from that rank.

undertoe
May 14, 2010, 12:24 PM
it was mentioned actually that aokiji was the strongest admiral at HQ , but was assumed to be a mistake .

Please read the topic before posting so we don't just retread the same material. Akainu addressed this earlier.

johnnyb7
May 17, 2010, 03:57 PM
Coby is going to get stronger and stronger and eventually become the strongest. If not him then it'll be Garp.

Franckie
May 18, 2010, 02:19 PM
This does not make sense at all. Let's analyze what the says "The two of us have nearly killed each other so many times".

1) Garp would know if he nearly killed somebody. So, even if Roger tried to trick him, he wouldn't fall for it.

2) Moreover, he wouldn't try to make Garp think of them as friends; because if Roger thinks Garp does not think of them as friends, he wouldn't trust Ace to him.

3) Roger would know if somebody nearly killed him.

4) So many times means it is more than once, probably a lot more. So, it can't be due to some situational disadvantage, it can't be due to luck. They fought more or less equally.

5) Garp and Sengoku being the last line of defence in Ace's execution is an implication of their power levels.

We don't know what happened between Garp and Roger each time they fought. For all we know, their "fights" were like the ones we saw in the war with everyone constantly launching surprise attacks on each other. Roger got distracted and Garp gave him a kidney blow from behind. The vice-versa happened to Garp as well. Nevertheless, Garp never once won a fight with Roger. It's canon that WB is Roger's only equal.

Roger was trying to get on Garp's good side when he made the comment. He knew Garp was the best man fit for the job as he explained how he hoped Garp would protect his girlfriend and unborn child.

Garp and Sengoku were not the last lines of defense. The Admirals did far more to protect Marineford and the scaffhold that held Ace than anything Garp or Sengoku did during the war. Their job, specifically Sengoku, was to stand back and issue orders as they observed the situation.


Until the reason behind Senkous promotion is said, I don't see it as irrelevant.

At that time, Garp was still not a developed character. Only about 4-5 years later, Oda started to develop Garp. Im not saying the Gorusai statement is unacceptable, but it is outdated. We have now new reasons to believe that the Admirals are not necessarily the strongest within the MHQ.
Sengoku was promoted because his superior's job became availible and Sengoku accepted the position. That still doesn't change the fact that Sengoku is no longer in his prime and his current feats don't stack up to what the current Admirals have shown.

At that time when the Admirals were introduced, only Aokiji was developed. Only about 4-5 years later, Oda started to develop Kizaru and Akainu. The Gorusai statement is not out of date considering how Kizaru, for example, has been stated to be the "strongest" too. More importantly, the 3 Admirals were MHQ's stars during the war. Feats are more important than anything when assessing a person's power since an author must "Show, not tell". Garp has not shown anything that places him on par with the 3 Admirals. Garp has only been stated to be a legendary fighter from 20+ years ago and hasn't been in his prime for years now.


If it was just for saving, then clearly not. Otherwise anyone had the right to claim some random dude to be stronger than the Admirals. But it is not just saving.
He cornered several times the PK and was said to have near dead matches with him.
He is a D, refused to become a Admiral and carries the title Hero of the Marine. Going by the reaction of the WB pirates, that title must be linked to his battle and its achievements.I think it is more than clear that Garp is a extreme powerhouse on his own. He is a fighting power of the MHQ, not a tactician or w/e. So yes, Oda saving him makes me think that he is extremely powerful, same goes for Mihawk, who was also saved for future plot.

It's lipservice. Garp is respected by WB too, but WB's comments about Garp only mean that Garp was famous and powerful 20+ years ago. In the current timeline, Garp admitted he isn't nowhere as strong as he used to be. WB also states that Garp's title as "Hero of the Marines" is outdated.

Oh, and on the subject of titles, the title of "Admiral" is bestowed upon Marines who are recognized for their fighting prowess. There's an interesting statement in Aokiji's databook profile that one of the reasons he is the "strongest" is "because he's a Logia".


That was Buggy's statement. Im not denying it's credibility, but we have new reasons to believe that WB was not the only one.

Garp was said to have cornered Roger. He was also said to have chased Roger on every occasion. Furthermore Roger said he fought him several times to near dead. So from my point of view, you wouldn't fight to draw and run from someone if he is not extremely strong. Anyway, everything vast theories, since it was all Offpanel.

Same case for the Shiki's matter, it was also offpanel. Until we know their ability's (I didn't watch the movie yet) we (I) can't rly come to a conclusion. I mean the damage on the MHQ, could have been easily made by a destructive devil fruit (like Enel's for instance). So it doesn't have to mean anything.

Also I was earlier trying to point out that a tag team doesn't automatically mean Shiki > Sengoku or Garp. To me it just means that both of them together could beat Shiki with less effort, without going into all out mode. Thus the success-rate of the victory was more high. Same case for the two forces against one and three Admirals blocking one attack, I think u misunderstood my intention of those two examples.

Lastly I agree, Roger was trying to play Garp, but just based on that I don't think we can conclude that statement as a lie. If we consider that he cornered him several times and the other facts pointing towards him being strong, I believe Rogers statement was most likely true.

It's common knowledge in the OPverse that only WB could fight Roger to a standstill. After all, fighting Roger to a standstill is the chief reason as to why WB was bestowed with the title "World's Strongest Man".

True, what went on between Roger and Garp is offpanel. We still know the results though. Roger got away from Garp every single time and defeated him in every fight he had with Garp. I don't see how these two facts speak in favor of Garp being Roger's "equal" as you suggest.

As for the Shiki matter, there is no credible reason for either Garp or Sengoku to not go all-out at the start of the fight. Shiki invaded Marineford and slaughtered an unknown amount of Marines. Furthermore, it was a good chance for MHQ to put an end to a legendary troublemaker. Garp and Sengoku tag-teamed Shiki, yet their combined might (with an army behind them btw), they were unable to curbstomp Shiki as evidenced how half of Marineford was wrecked in their fight (buildings were destroyed, ship debris exists all over the place, etc.). If either Sengoku or Garp were equal, if not better, than Shiki, then one fighter could hold Shiki off while the other delivered a fatal blow. On a side note, taking on 2 of MHQ's elites at the same time counts as hype for Shiki.


The moment WB stepped down from his ship, nothing was fair anymore. One of his alliance-mate was played and WB ended up with a hole in his chest. I don't need to mention that before the vs Akainu fight, WB was multiple wounded by the marines. While Akainu was fresh, without any signs of damage. That battle was no way in hell fair. To me a fair fight means if both fighter fights on neutral battlefield, without any disadvantage for each and naturally both of them have to be fresh, without damages, exhaustion etc.

Yes Akainu was able to take half of his face, but WB was in a hurry. While for Akainu it was just vs WB, for WB it was more like vs MHQ. He needed to buy time for his crew's escape, while he was holding the entire MHQ. So he couldn't focus only on Akainu.

Now imagine, if it wasn't MHQ but just Akainu, don't you think WB would have jumped on and focused more attacks on him, even after he felled down? So not just 2 hits, but more, way more. I think it is pretty clear that Akainu couldn't fight anymore after the 2nd hit. That's why I can't imagine him surviving further hits, while WB who was shot and stabbed several times, who also lost his face and had a hole in his chest, was still not down.

The way I see it, WB wanted to take down Akainu as fast as possible (reasons: Ace and Crews safty), so he let him take his face, but landed two fast hits. Under normal condition the WB vs Akainu fight would have lasted way longer, WB wouldn't have lost his face in a few seconds and Akainu wouldn't have been defeated so early.

WB vs aynone displayed so far = WB -> the strongest man
WB vs 2 Admirals = Admirals

Anyway, it's not a secret that Im a WB-fanboy, but Im not pulling my arguments out of my ass. He portrayed his superiority, not to mention Oda did not make him lose in a fair 1vs1 fight. So I believe with that infobox labelling him as the strongest, was not a title, but rather a fact.
In a war, there is no such thing as a foul move. A party's objective is to win the fight if possible. Although WB received a hole in his chest, Marco and others pointed out that WB would have avoided it if not for his age. People such as Crocodile were stunned as to how weak WB had become. Furthermore, WB silently comments to himself how time has sapped his strength. In other words, it's indicated early on at the start of the war that current WB is only a shadow of his former self.

Before receiving that wound though, WB had a brief skirmish with Aokiji. The skirmish is what you'd see at the start of a "fair" fight. In this case, neither party succeeded in damaging each other. As the war dragged on, WB launched a surprise attack on Kizaru only to end up failing to do damage to the Admiral and having a few holes blown in his chest.

As for Akainu, yes, Akainu had yet to suffer any major injuries. Nevertheless, WB still held a significant amount of power since the island was in grave danger of being destroyed by WB's attacks. WB then got another hole engraved in his chest and failed to damage Akainu. Even without the wound, we know WB would still have trouble damaging Akainu as evidenced by how Marco and Vista had trouble with him, and this was after WB's surprise attack.

WB used enough force he felt would defeat Akainu. He could accomplish several goals all at once by defeating Akainu: (1) He could avenge Ace's death, (2) he could put distance between MHQ and his men, (3) he could save some of his men from being roasted by Akainu, and (4) demoralize the enemy by depriving them of their most availible asset. Not attempting to finish Akainu when WB had the chance would be a huge tactical blunder for WB and his men. When Akainu showed up later, people were surprised that Akainu was still alive after receiving two clean, critical attacks from WB. Akainu then goes on to plow through people such as Jinbei (= Ace) and Ivankov (who held his own against Kuma).

WB failed hard to pwn or even harm Admirals when he tried attacking them, and two instances involve him launching a surprise attack on an Admiral! Yet he still couldn't defeat, let alone inflict any fatal damage, his target, and actually received damage in return, one of which was fatal (Akainu burning off half of WB's face). Still, the fact that WB could hold his own against the Admirals is impressive, especially considering his age at the time.

Prime WB vs Admiral = WB rapestomps
Current WB vs Admiral = Admiral >= WB
Current WB vs 2+ Admirals = Admirals rapestomp

I'm not a WB fanboy, but I am impressed with how WB was handled. And I'm glad to see I'm not seeing someone who thinks that current WB can solo 2+ Admirals at the same time.

I agree this will turn into another WB vs BB debate. So, I'll make this my last post on the subject. I'm not sure though if I'll still be around though if and when the manga continues giving developments regarding this particular subject.

Marche
May 18, 2010, 02:40 PM
We don't know what happened between Garp and Roger each time they fought. For all we know, their "fights" were like the ones we saw in the war with everyone constantly launching surprise attacks on each other. Roger got distracted and Garp gave him a kidney blow from behind. The vice-versa happened to Garp as well. Nevertheless, Garp never once won a fight with Roger. It's canon that WB is Roger's only equal.

Roger was trying to get on Garp's good side when he made the comment. He knew Garp was the best man fit for the job as he explained how he hoped Garp would protect his girlfriend and unborn child.

Garp and Sengoku were not the last lines of defense. The Admirals did far more to protect Marineford and the scaffhold that held Ace than anything Garp or Sengoku did during the war. Their job, specifically Sengoku, was to stand back and issue orders as they observed the situation.


Sengoku was promoted because his superior's job became availible and Sengoku accepted the position. That still doesn't change the fact that Sengoku is no longer in his prime and his current feats don't stack up to what the current Admirals have shown.

At that time when the Admirals were introduced, only Aokiji was developed. Only about 4-5 years later, Oda started to develop Kizaru and Akainu. The Gorusai statement is not out of date considering how Kizaru, for example, has been stated to be the "strongest" too. More importantly, the 3 Admirals were MHQ's stars during the war. Feats are more important than anything when assessing a person's power since an author must "Show, not tell". Garp has not shown anything that places him on par with the 3 Admirals. Garp has only been stated to be a legendary fighter from 20+ years ago and hasn't been in his prime for years now.



It's lipservice. Garp is respected by WB too, but WB's comments about Garp only mean that Garp was famous and powerful 20+ years ago. In the current timeline, Garp admitted he isn't nowhere as strong as he used to be. WB also states that Garp's title as "Hero of the Marines" is outdated.

Oh, and on the subject of titles, the title of "Admiral" is bestowed upon Marines who are recognized for their fighting prowess. There's an interesting statement in Aokiji's databook profile that one of the reasons he is the "strongest" is "because he's a Logia".



It's common knowledge in the OPverse that only WB could fight Roger to a standstill. After all, fighting Roger to a standstill is the chief reason as to why WB was bestowed with the title "World's Strongest Man".

True, what went on between Roger and Garp is offpanel. We still know the results though. Roger got away from Garp every single time and defeated him in every fight he had with Garp. I don't see how these two facts speak in favor of Garp being Roger's "equal" as you suggest.

As for the Shiki matter, there is no credible reason for either Garp or Sengoku to not go all-out at the start of the fight. Shiki invaded Marineford and slaughtered an unknown amount of Marines. Furthermore, it was a good chance for MHQ to put an end to a legendary troublemaker. Garp and Sengoku tag-teamed Shiki, yet their combined might (with an army behind them btw), they were unable to curbstomp Shiki as evidenced how half of Marineford was wrecked in their fight (buildings were destroyed, ship debris exists all over the place, etc.). If either Sengoku or Garp were equal, if not better, than Shiki, then one fighter could hold Shiki off while the other delivered a fatal blow. On a side note, taking on 2 of MHQ's elites at the same time counts as hype for Shiki.


In a war, there is no such thing as a foul move. A party's objective is to win the fight if possible. Although WB received a hole in his chest, Marco and others pointed out that WB would have avoided it if not for his age. People such as Crocodile were stunned as to how weak WB had become. Furthermore, WB silently comments to himself how time has sapped his strength. In other words, it's indicated early on at the start of the war that current WB is only a shadow of his former self.

Before receiving that wound though, WB had a brief skirmish with Aokiji. The skirmish is what you'd see at the start of a "fair" fight. In this case, neither party succeeded in damaging each other. As the war dragged on, WB launched a surprise attack on Kizaru only to end up failing to do damage to the Admiral and having a few holes blown in his chest.

As for Akainu, yes, Akainu had yet to suffer any major injuries. Nevertheless, WB still held a significant amount of power since the island was in grave danger of being destroyed by WB's attacks. WB then got another hole engraved in his chest and failed to damage Akainu. Even without the wound, we know WB would still have trouble damaging Akainu as evidenced by how Marco and Vista had trouble with him, and this was after WB's surprise attack.

WB used enough force he felt would defeat Akainu. He could accomplish several goals all at once by defeating Akainu: (1) He could avenge Ace's death, (2) he could put distance between MHQ and his men, (3) he could save some of his men from being roasted by Akainu, and (4) demoralize the enemy by depriving them of their most availible asset. Not attempting to finish Akainu when WB had the chance would be a huge tactical blunder for WB and his men. When Akainu showed up later, people were surprised that Akainu was still alive after receiving two clean, critical attacks from WB. Akainu then goes on to plow through people such as Jinbei (= Ace) and Ivankov (who held his own against Kuma).

WB failed hard to pwn or even harm Admirals when he tried attacking them, and two instances involve him launching a surprise attack on an Admiral! Yet he still couldn't defeat, let alone inflict any fatal damage, his target, and actually received damage in return, one of which was fatal (Akainu burning off half of WB's face). Still, the fact that WB could hold his own against the Admirals is impressive, especially considering his age at the time.

Prime WB vs Admiral = WB rapestomps
Current WB vs Admiral = Admiral >= WB
Current WB vs 2+ Admirals = Admirals rapestomp

I'm not a WB fanboy, but I am impressed with how WB was handled. And I'm glad to see I'm not seeing someone who thinks that current WB can solo 2+ Admirals at the same time.

I agree this will turn into another WB vs BB debate. So, I'll make this my last post on the subject. I'm not sure though if I'll still be around though if and when the manga continues giving developments regarding this particular subject.I don't think than Garp and Roger have really fought, I think than their duel was as that in Water 7 with SH, when they fly away thanks to the super cannon.

Ashura_Ichibugin
May 18, 2010, 06:41 PM
We don't know what happened between Garp and Roger each time they fought. For all we know, their "fights" were like the ones we saw in the war with everyone constantly launching surprise attacks on each other. Roger got distracted and Garp gave him a kidney blow from behind. The vice-versa happened to Garp as well. Nevertheless, Garp never once won a fight with Roger. It's canon that WB is Roger's only equal.

It is also canon that Garp and Roger nearly killed each other many times; which, without doubt, indicates more or less equal fights.


Roger was trying to get on Garp's good side when he made the comment. He knew Garp was the best man fit for the job as he explained how he hoped Garp would protect his girlfriend and unborn child.

When you demand such a big favor, getting on someone's good side is of no use. I think his every word was sincere in that dialogue. Roger does not seem to be the type to manipulate people he respects.


Garp and Sengoku were not the last lines of defense. The Admirals did far more to protect Marineford and the scaffhold that held Ace than anything Garp or Sengoku did during the war. Their job, specifically Sengoku, was to stand back and issue orders as they observed the situation.

Yes admirals did far more. Because if you are the last line of defense, you remain stationary, you do not run around fighting people.


I don't think than Garp and Roger have really fought, I think than their duel was as that in Water 7 with SH, when they fly away thanks to the super cannon.

I fail to see how that qualifies as nearly killing each other. It takes far more than that to nearly kill the pirate king.

bittman
May 19, 2010, 07:17 AM
A lot of talk about Roger vs Garp which sounds a bit misleading, so let me clarify that unless I'm very much mistaken:

The only references made to Garp vs Roger indicate that Garp "cornered" Roger many times. The record of their battles has never been mentioned and it's only a general assumption that they had many large scale battles and were approximately equals. For all we know, they only fought once and Garp "cornered" Roger many times the same way Smoker has "cornered" Luffy (which is forcing a retreat).

If you can find me any reference where Garp "nearly killed" Roger, or where Garp "never once won a fight with Roger", ignore all this.

I.e. Cornering =/= nearly killing + Escaping this cornering =/= winning every time

Omnion_1990
May 19, 2010, 09:05 AM
in the last page of chapter 581, don flamingo is ordered to eliminate moria. the order came from someone/a group with higher rank than sengoku, obviously stronger than don flamingo, or the three admiral as well. what kind of power does this marine posses? or who is stronger/have higher rank than sengoku?i believe this marine is the man behind the curtain for the void century accident, also the one who is responsible for ohara incident. are they those 5 people group [that holds sword] i'm talking about? i dont know.what do u guys think? if anyone can post pic, that would be nice

in other related noted, i think the rank for strong marine is something like this:
1. sengoku
2. akainu
3. kizaru
4. ao kiji
5. smoker
6. garp
7. coby
8. tashigi
9. hemelpo

and my final question about the marine. they seemed so strong, will they be luffy's final opponent? [i mean the strongest marine vs luffy, or luffy's pirates vs world government/marineford]

I dont understand how garp is number 6????? when he clearly shat on marco, who is on par with admirals.

Mine would be:

1. Sengoku / Garp
3. Kizaru
4. Akainu
5. Aoi Kiji

And i dont know the powers of the marines below admiral to make a judgment.

Lord Rayleigh
May 19, 2010, 03:30 PM
I don't think than Garp and Roger have really fought, I think than their duel was as that in Water 7 with SH, when they fly away thanks to the super cannon.
When Garp went to see Roger in jail, the Pirate King said that they had fought nearly to death a lot of times.

chess4
May 19, 2010, 03:40 PM
its a toss between garp and sengoku. thats it point blank period.....

like rogers said he andgarp almost kille each other a bunh of times........so if he could threaten rogers life then garp must be a beast

Ashura_Ichibugin
May 19, 2010, 04:56 PM
A lot of talk about Roger vs Garp which sounds a bit misleading, so let me clarify that unless I'm very much mistaken:

The only references made to Garp vs Roger indicate that Garp "cornered" Roger many times. The record of their battles has never been mentioned and it's only a general assumption that they had many large scale battles and were approximately equals. For all we know, they only fought once and Garp "cornered" Roger many times the same way Smoker has "cornered" Luffy (which is forcing a retreat).

If you can find me any reference where Garp "nearly killed" Roger, or where Garp "never once won a fight with Roger", ignore all this.

I.e. Cornering =/= nearly killing + Escaping this cornering =/= winning every time

Here is your reference:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/551/05/
To be precise, bottom right panel. The exact words are: "The two of us have nearly killed each other so many times". I think it is clear enough.

KnuckleheadedNinja
May 22, 2010, 06:02 PM
1.Sengoku/Garp
2.Akainu
3.Kizaru
4.Akoji
5.Smoker
6. The other vice admirals.

Liger X
May 22, 2010, 08:33 PM
Dear, Bittman...

Personally, I do not wish to be caught up with the argument going on, however, Bittman, I saw a mistake in one of your posts... Check this one (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1885178&postcount=9) for clarification. Doflamingo did receive damage in this war.

Sorry for this slight interruption, however, please do carry on... Furthermore, I may join the debate on a later date ~ after I catch up reading on the topic at bay.

Roarchu
May 22, 2010, 10:20 PM
Dear, Bittman...

Personally, I do not wish to be caught up with the argument going on, however, Bittman, I saw a mistake in one of your posts... Check this one (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1885178&postcount=9) for clarification. Doflamingo did receive damage in this war.

Sorry for this slight interruption, however, please do carry on... Furthermore, I may join the debate on a later date ~ after I catch up reading on the topic at bay.

and Mihawk also didn't get hurt right? and Hancock?

but when did Doflamingo get hurt? are you talking about that bruise looking thing he had at the end of the war? because it does look like it, but I don't know, I get the vibe or whatever that Doflamingo's really really REALLY freaking strong and would not have gotten hurt in the war, I think it's arguable whether or not that is a bruise...but that's just me...

Liger X
May 23, 2010, 03:40 AM
and Mihawk also didn't get hurt right? and Hancock?

but when did Doflamingo get hurt? are you talking about that bruise looking thing he had at the end of the war? because it does look like it, but I don't know, I get the vibe or whatever that Doflamingo's really really REALLY freaking strong and would not have gotten hurt in the war, I think it's arguable whether or not that is a bruise...but that's just me...
Ditto, I was talking about that bruise that he had around the end.

BlackHair
May 23, 2010, 03:57 AM
Hancock, Mihawk and Kizaru are those I noticed without damagelines. But that doesn't mean anything. Akainu for example received the most damage among the Admirals, but he was also the one who archived victory for the WG.

Omnion_1990
May 23, 2010, 11:45 AM
I personally dont believe akainus skull and insides took a direct quake to at ALL. if he was he would be DEAD.

IMO i think akainus logia abilty and him being made up of magma saved him from the full force of whitebeards quake, i dont think akainu is stupid enough not to turn on his haki. SO I dont it is plausible to say akainu took the earthquake 100% and his logia powers had a lot to do with buffering it. He was still a "magma man" when hit buy whitebeards quake.

Fox666
May 23, 2010, 05:51 PM
Whitebeard power is exponentially less powerfull against individuals. While he can take a damage of X in 50 men at once, if he attack a single individual, the damage would still be X. In other words, the absurdity of Whitebeard power is not the power itself, but the range of destruction... (which is very earthquake alike =P)

Franckie
May 23, 2010, 10:13 PM
I dont understand how garp is number 6????? when he clearly shat on marco, who is on par with admirals.

Garp's punch did squat to Marco as did Kizaru's and Akainu's attacks. Being on par with an Admiral means being as strong as an Admiral. Typically it means being able to hold your own against an Admiral, but Marco is a special case. He can hold his own against anybody except for people who can bypass his regen (BB, Kuma, or a guy with seastone). His damage output though is pathetic compared to Admirals, while they have almost the same defensive capabilities as him.

Dasbones
May 31, 2010, 07:10 PM
Garp's punch did squat to Marco as did Kizaru's and Akainu's attacks. Being on par with an Admiral means being as strong as an Admiral. Typically it means being able to hold your own against an Admiral, but Marco is a special case. He can hold his own against anybody except for people who can bypass his regen (BB, Kuma, or a guy with seastone). His damage output though is pathetic compared to Admirals, while they have almost the same defensive capabilities as him.

Uh, Garp was holding back when he hit Marco, he wanted Ace to be freed.

You do remember the feats of physical strength he demonstrated after the Enes Lobby arch yes? where he hurled cannon balls faster than any cannon could do, and where he swung a mace the size of a warship around with little effort, he clearly did not hit Marco with full strength. Those are things I HIGHLY doubt any of the admirals are capable of, they rely far to much on their DF powers.