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View Full Version : Discussion One Piece as a modern day Epic just not with the poetic forms and all that



JetPistol
April 24, 2010, 08:07 PM
Oh yeah I just remembered something else about Luffy and Impel Down. Remember those epics like The Odyssey or Virgil's Aeneid? Their main character's were hero's and usually had some type of bloodline from a God (Perseus, Hercules, Achilles). Their main criteria as demigods would be to go through great challenges and one major objective, to travel through hell and return from it. Impel Down is the hell that Luffy traveled down to, all 6 levels and back up. He also has a special bloodline (The Will of D.),he's a D. But yeah, you can say One Piece is like a modern day epic, and Luffy plays our demigod hero. 'D.' for demigod anyone? I'm not serious about 'D.' standing for demigod by the way!haha
Thanks for reading :P

Fox666
April 24, 2010, 09:04 PM
Yes, One Piece follow very well the classic epic style.

I remember a early link in another languange (french I think) which compared situations in One Piece and classic epic stories.

I would like to ask if anyone still have the link. It was very interesting, with situations in classic epics which "still not happened" in One Piece, such as confronting the father figure, or discovering something that angry the world while traveling back to the beggining.

Shiro-kun
April 25, 2010, 02:12 AM
Hmm

Impel Down reminded me of Dante's Inferno
with all the levels of hell and what punishment in different levels are simmilar to the circle of the hells difference in punishments, Luffy/Dante travels through them meeting various known people on the way

I love how Oda actually does look for outside influences for his manga, his manga contains many references to old stories, epics and even history of our worldly pirates.

Lord Rayleigh
April 25, 2010, 06:56 AM
I remember a early link in another languange (french I think) which compared situations in One Piece and classic epic stories.

I would like to ask if anyone still have the link. It was very interesting, with situations in classic epics which "still not happened" in One Piece, such as confronting the father figure, or discovering something that angry the world while traveling back to the beggining.

There is the link : http://www.volonte-d.com/etudes/etude4.php

The list of french essays about OP : http://www.volonte-d.com/etudes.php

Fox666
April 25, 2010, 08:21 AM
Thanks.

I also will quote the first link, as I think it's very important to keep track.

(for some reason Google translator seems to have made a very good translation of this)


Hero's Journey

[hr]

This text aims to verify whether "One Piece" is a mythological story and that based on the theory of monomyth Joseph Campbell.
This theory develops the idea that all myths that have sprung up around the world have a common basis and using the same patterns, and that whatever culture or time period. This theory thus establishes that there is a structure of stories "universal" with a capacity "umbrella" extremely strong.
The monomyth itself is composed of two aspects. On one side there is what Joseph Campbell called the "Hero's Journey" (model mythological tale) and the other the "cosmogonic cycle" (the model of creation and organization of the World). The "cosmogonic cycle" is an explanation of the patterns of world perspective Metaphysics.
The "Hero's Journey" offers a 12-step narrative whose universality is illuminated by psychoanalysis. All these steps are not mandatory but are found most often in large numbers.
In the following study we will try to highlight that "One Piece" follows the lines of "Hero's Journey" of monomyth, thus demonstrating that conceptually "One Piece" is a novel and therefore Mythological Universal.

[hr]

01. The call of adventure
The future hero is introduced in his ordinary world and limited. It has little or no knowledge of the outside world. He receives a call that will push him to leave his world to fulfill a Quest.
Luffy, our hero, grew up and lived in a small isolated village situated on the sea the quietest and least dangerous of the world: East Blue. It is cut in a way the real world and does not know much about his organization and the forces that govern it.
The advent of the Pirate Shanks Le Roux on his island, and homely, is its "Call" to the adventure that is decided, it will be a pirate and travel the world to find out.
The formal object of his quest, become the Lord of the Pirates, appears after the "refusal" Shanks Le Roux to take in his crew.

02. The refusal of the appeal
The refusal of the call can come either heroes or the future of his family. This is the manifestation of the fear of the unknown and introversion.
The "refusal" of the call to adventure comes Shanks Le Roux himself, while he is causing "the Call". It takes as a result the young age of Luffy and the latter must wait to be an adult to answer the "Call". In short it is still too early for him to face the unknown.
The drama around the arm of Shanks's sacrifice to save a sea monster that will teach Luffy is still too young to face the sea alone.
Luffy 7 years old then wait 10 years before leaving.

03. Help Guide
The Guide is one that will bring out the future hero of his ordinary world and to discover the outside world. This guide is often a supernatural nature but it is not necessary. What is important is that the Guide is likely superior to all the inhabitants of the ordinary world of the future heroes and it also occupies a relatively important or special in the outside world.
The figure of the "Guide" in One Piece is obviously held by Shanks Le Roux and symbolized by its Straw Hat Luffy he gives. With this symbol that Luffy will go on an adventure and will be recognized at: meeting with Hawkeye, a 7 Corsairs, or with Silvers Rayleigh, the former second Gold Roger.
Indeed, as any "guide" Shanks le Roux is actually an important figure in the world, it is one of four former Pirates and Emperors foam crew of Gold Roger, the Pirate Lord. The revelations brought almost half adventure.
His relationship with Shanks Luffy therefore allows to obtain recognition specific mythological hero and provides an ideal framework for certain matches.

04. The passage of the first threshold
With the help of the Guide (which can be visible or invisible), the future hero undergoes one or several events that symbolize the transition from regular (interior) to the outside world. The future hero hero is not prohibited and must cross the threshold, despite his ignorance, innocence and inexperience.
The "Threshold" in One Piece is the gateway to the New World, Sea plying the largest and powerful hackers. It is the sea area where it is the Pirates Emperors who rule the Order and the Law. It is the world's "mature" of Piracy.
All the adventures of Luffy preceding this passage serve to prepare. Before this passage Luffy is still ignorant, innocent and inexperienced (even if it is less and less).
Also during this first period adventure Luffy is helping us out by figures of power and authority to compensate for the fact that it is not yet fully "Accomplished" as "Heroes" ( Silvers Rayleigh example, tied aid to the "Guide").

05. The belly of the whale (or cave)
He comes to beating the keeper of the threshold. It is often a place in the hands of a formidable force to be crossed. The cave can also be metaphorical as it is in fact a death (in darkness, in the ego) followed by a rebirth (light) that will see the future hero transformed into a hero and therefore ready to meet the challenges of the Quest. Often it is the key to this renaissance control real power of the hero or a new power.
The "Death" Luffy is the disappearance of its crew Sabaody (Gate of the New World). A Pirate is nothing without his companions and then Luffy the Pirate "die symbolically because it has no crew. Its rebirth as a Pirate when he will find his companions, when the crew will be reborn.
Bartholomew Kuma, one of the 7 Corsairs, responsible for the disappearance of the crew of Luffy done here is symbolic of Judge Manning: If the ambition of the Crew is true then it is reborn.
But this is not the only figure of the "cave" in this passage. Indeed during this test alone, Luffy will go to Impel Down, the largest prison Underwater World Government which includes all figures Hell, even in the name of its floors. Luffy will descend to the bottom and died there, or almost (fight against the Director Magellan). Then he will be reborn to life and ascend to the light of day with a new force: a temporary crew!
The question of power is also reflected in the "Haki" inner strength essential for the development of Luffy, whose discovery coincides with concrete and real that way.

06. The road tests
The hero undergoes a series of tests, with or without assistance, in order to overcome the ego and thus to achieve his quest. It is a crossing of darkness in search of himself.
This will obviously adventures in the New World, where the Quest for Luffy to become Lord of the Pirates take on its meaning. He will face his rivals to win the supreme title.

07. The meeting with the Goddess
The meeting with the Goddess is the manifestation of the Oedipus complex exists in everyone. The goddess can help the hero in his quest or simply appear at the end. Its position is variable but almost mandatory. It may be tempting but solace or in any case the hero has to triumph over it (to win his love and / or resist his charms) to prove himself worthy of the gift of love and life.
The "Goddess" is in all likelihood Boa Hancock, Queen of the Amazons and a member of the Order of the Corsairs. It is considered the most beautiful woman in the world and no man can resist her charms.
Luffy meeting during his ordeal of loneliness after the death of its crew. He resists his charms at the same time wins his love, all of the most innocent of all.
The "Goddess" and won is helping to Luffy in his solitude and test leads to the ordeal of death and rebirth in "Hell": Impel Down, the big prison.

08. The meeting Father
The figure of the Father is a reflection of the Ego and its double win is the ultimate test to complete his quest for self. The ultimate enemy is either a father (symbolic or not) is a double - what the point of view psychoanalysis is almost the same thing.
Oda introduced the two figures in his story: Dragon, Luffy's absent father, leader of a revolutionary army directly opposed to world government (where Luffy Pirate as opposed indirectly) and Blackbeard, the Pirate Luffy evolving in parallel and which contains the figure of two "wild" and "mature" Hero's (Blackbeard and his companions in the mirror of Luffy and his family).
While it is difficult at present to predict what kind of relationship will be the Dragon / Luffy later in the story, we can still observe that each addresses one of two Orders which govern the world, namely World Government and Piracy. If there is rivalry, it will certainly be around their role in the rebalancing of forces of Order.
As for Blackbeard there is little mystery: it is the rival "double" to the supreme Lord of the Pirates, who poses as the rival who will certainly be more difficult to overcome.

09. The ultimate gift
Hero After many trials, finally gets the object of his quest. That enlightenment and understanding of self and the world. Often the hero discovers that he was the object of his quest and even if it is a real power he gets, the hero realizes that it is the journey that is meaningful and truly not the destination.
This will undoubtedly discover the "One Piece".

10. The leak magic or obligation of return
Once completed the Quest, the Hero must return to the ordinary world. A few examples: the acquisition of the purpose of the Quest angered the world and the hero must escape or the hero finds himself in a charming place to stay but can not because in any case he must share the world the result of his Quest.
It was not until the end of the manga to see if this step will be present in the narrative.

11. The road back
The way back is the opportunity to travel the world in opposite directions to illustrate the fact that the hero is different from the go. It can meet old enemies who are now just witnessed his metamorphosis.
Again it was not until the end of the manga to see if this step will be present in the narrative but as Oda likes the return of old characters, it is likely that there will be something of this kind.
It must in any case that the status of Lord of the Pirates to be recognized with other pirates and the World Government so ...

12. The return to the ordinary world
The Hero is make the ordinary world of the outcome of his Quest. The hero is not always understood, but no matter because he killed his ego and understand the world in its entirety, the Heroes will play an important role in the world but that role may be invisible to the uninitiated.
If this step is developed it could take the form of travel Luffy through the other world's oceans, seas more common after all the adventures on Grandline and the New World. The Lord of the Pirates will travel the seas and playing its role as guarantor of the Order Pirate.

[hr]

As a temporary conclusion we can say that for the time One Piece follows the model of "Hero's Journey" and the tale is indeed such "mythological".
We'll see if the further adventures of Luffy confirms this initial analysis.


Huge post, but I believe it's worth it.

Gats
April 25, 2010, 08:52 AM
Thanks.

I also will quote the first link, as I think it's very important to keep track.

(for some reason Google translator seems to have made a very good translation of this)


It's not japanese, much easier for a machine to translate.

Dice
April 25, 2010, 10:38 AM
There was a similar thread in the Naruto forum when one reader discovered that some parts of the story seems to be from star wars but it's just like the the link two threads above says: most storys follow Campbell's classical hero journey. It's an established pattern of writting and might even never really change especially since it seems that some parts are mandatory though obviously not all of them.

When I heard about this the first time I was really surprised but then I thought about some storys of movies, books etc. and you can clearly see this pattern. It's quite interesting though some of the "magic" is lost :D


edit: I just read a test about translators (online and desktop translators) and google wasn't bad at all (compared to the commercial products). Though it seems to have problems with long sentences.

undertoe
April 25, 2010, 10:57 AM
The Odyssey starred Odysseus, who was not a demigod.

ScratchmenApoo
April 25, 2010, 11:59 AM
To me, One Piece has been and is a philosophical epic.
The dialogues between major characters is a good example. Or Blackbeard's speeches.
In all stories, the main character is supposed to have a goal and certain cliches also found in other books are bound to happen. It doesn't surprise me if similarities are found.

That large 12-step text was a very interesting read, thanks.

Shiro-kun
April 25, 2010, 12:27 PM
A lot of stories written today have shared plot elements,i see no surprise or disappointment in this

I think there is a site already totally devoted to story cliches, plot elements and character concept etc , if one finds perhaps it might enlightened some of plot devices

Yes of course many stories written today have many many shared plot elements to those written from Shakespeare , who himself looked back borrowed elements of the epics written before his time.

JetPistol
April 25, 2010, 05:08 PM
The Odyssey starred Odysseus, who was not a demigod.

Two of his family members had the bloodline of a god, so technically he also shared the bloodline of gods. Okaykaykay???

But, this was just an interesting thing I noticed and decided to share. Was unaware of this French essay. I just found it cool how One Piece follows the Epic format but does it in a way that isn't so obvious.

RichardMNixon
April 25, 2010, 06:17 PM
I think there is a site already totally devoted to story cliches, plot elements and character concept etc , if one finds perhaps it might enlightened some of plot devices


Quality site. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage)

At one point they had "Eaten by a Snake" listed as a cliche named for One Piece, but apparently they've since merged it into general Deus Exit Machina. :(