The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

[Xiraiya]

I figured since I haven't seen one around really so this seems fine. Anyway basically this thread is for talking about your thoughts on what Kyuubi Sage Naruto may look like, do you think the form we saw back VS Nagato was a hint? or just a random moment of nothing etc.


My thoughts on Kyuubi Sage aren't good, I don't really like the idea and always thought that Naruto has to either lose Kyuubi or lose the Physical transformation of Kyuubi.

As it just looks like a mixed bag of random powers.
Where as people like the Uchiha's and their sharingan just seem a lot more better fitting together.


Discuss your thoughts.

[hakuthehedgehog]

I think if Naruto mixes the full control of the Kyuubi with Sage Mode, he won't have the physical transformations of the Kyuubi.
Reason of why I am saying is because transforming can hurt his comrades, or destroy hude amounts of landscape, so I am guessing he will contain the chakra in his body like a cloack, but it won't peel off his skin due to the durability of his own body in Sage Mode.

Also, thanks to the huge amounts of chakra, he will be able to stay longer in Sage Mode.

[3c]

I have mixed feelings about this subject.

I would feel like it would be a shame if Naruto's "version 2" never showed up again, as I found it quite awesome looking, far more than Bee's. On the other hand I wouldn't like Naruto using a version 2 and transforming into a monster at all.

The most I want to see is his eyes transforming and a version 1 chakra cloak. I must say it would look pretty badass with nine tails and a red bubbling cloak surrounding him. Besides the unpredictable chakra is a total winner and incredibly useful technique. Think about it, mixed with Frog Fu it would be devestating. I'm not a huge fan of eye transformation, the only transformation I really like is the Kyuubi eyes. The SageKyuubi eye combination looked odd to me, and I was never a fan of yellow toad eyes. But the most I'll accept is the + shaped eyes and a chakra cloak like Bee's version 1. No version 2 please, and no Bijuu blasts.

[kkck]

I never really wanted naruto to master kyubi. Quite frankly, I would have prefered if he used the key to utterly seal it and stop the kyubi's chakra from mixing with his own. Basically, naruto would be a jinchuiriki which would fight through his own strength and innate talent rather than merely sucking up the power of some other dude which was placed specifically in him for either political reasons or no reason at all. Naruto stealing the kyubi's power makes him a leach, once he dominates the kyubi's power any further training is useless.

[pimp naruto kun]

I always disliked the idea of the kyuubi because its basically like taking power thats not yours. I really wished naruto would have listened to what yamato said and not rely on kyuubi. I think it would be ok for naruto to use kyuubi if he used it in conjunction with sage mode or used only its chakra but remained human with no cloaks cause quite frankly i hate tailed or cloak transformations to me they show like no control and its just getting mad and uneashing the kyuubi's chakra which sn't even his own power. i would be fine if he uses it in a human state to increase the power of his jutsu but if he uses it the way bee uses it i think that would be stupid because he would have gained all these jutsus through his own power and then thrown them away for some power that's not his. I don't really won't to see a full fox or cloak tailed naruto entering the war i would rather see a fully human naruto either using sagemode or ninetails like in his fight with neji with n transformations kicking ass. I think it's stupid if he is recognized as the strongest ninja if he doesn't use his own power

[jdw]

Although Kyuubi does not originate from Naruto, when properly done using Kyuubi he is using his power because he is taking it for himself from Kyuubi, imo. He will be defeating a foe and taking his power for himself. Before when Kyuubi gave him gifts of power, he was using it but it wasn't like he took it with his own hands by dominating Kyuubi. He was "relying" on Kyuubi to share in some cases, or giving in to Kyuubi himself through anger or hatred. If Naruto puts himself in a place where he masters and controls Kyuubi despite the great difficulty and danger of doing so, and despite Kyuubi's great power wishing otherwise, Naruto will have, imo, through victory, properly acquired the power of Kyuubi, whether he uses it with Sage mode or not. Through training, hard work, and dedication (blood, sweat, & tears), he will have earned the power of Kyuubi. He will join a select group of elite shinobi who came to fully control a beast.

[kkck]

I don't see the difference between naruto being given kyubi's chakra and taking it by force. I mean, either way its not a power which originates from himself nor he has absolutely anything to do with it's developments. All that changed in that scenario is the means behind naruto leaching. Changing the form in which naruto leaches the kyubi's power does not make him any less of a leach. The way I see it, using the kyubi is worst than using actual steroids....

[3c]

A Bijuu is much like a Kekkei Genkai really. Naruto did receive it at birth after all. Having Kyuubi as a "bloodline limit" may be a little haxed compared to other bloodline limits, but if you compare it to the sharingan which evolution seem to be almost endless, and the Rinnegan, the Kyuubi is not that absurd really. People do say that Sasuke is using his own power after all, the same went for Pain. As jdw said if Naruto is controlling Kyuubi and not letting Kyuubi take over, then he's pretty much using his own power. Besides if we're going to make exceptions like this then we can pretty much pick every single character to shreds. Kakashi isn't using his own power, it's borrowed from Obito. Kisame is so strong because he's borrowing powers from a sword. Bee is downgraded without Hachibi. Raikage relies on his Raiton Armor etc etc. Also another point, Naruto is already been gradually influenced by the Kyuubi since his birth. The seal was designed to make Kyuubi and Naruto's chakra combine slowly over time after all. So in a sense Naruto's insane reserves are already connected to Kyuubi. All in all I agree with jdw. Letting Kyuubi control Naruto is borrowing his powers, taking it for himself is something else entirely even if it's haxed.

So when Naruto eventually combines Kyuubi with Sage Mode, which has pretty much been hinted at already, he'll be using his "own" power in my opinion. I'm a little against "power ups", as this will clearly turn into. But that's pretty much what's going to happen. And when that happens the most likely outcome will be either cross eyes with enhanced whiskers and feral looks overall like when Naruto encountered Nagato, or that added with a chakra cloak.

[jdw]

I don't see the difference between naruto being given kyubi's chakra and taking it by force. I mean, either way its not a power which originates from himself nor he has absolutely anything to do with it's developments. All that changed in that scenario is the means behind naruto leaching. Changing the form in which naruto leaches the kyubi's power does not make him any less of a leach. The way I see it, using the kyubi is worst than using actual steroids....

The difference, imo, is begging for power/giving another control over you because you feel like you are not enough or are desperate, which is what Naruto had done on some prior occasions (other times just giving into rage/hatred), and defeating the Kyuubi to use his power. Either way the power does not originate from Naruto, but when one defeats a foe he usually gets the spoils of victory.

[pimp naruto kun]

Although i am in some ways opposed to the kyuubi I think that naruto will be using it properly if he uses it in a way that he remains human and uses the kyuubi's chakra staying under control i personally think that naruto will inevitably use the kyuubi's chakra but in a manner unlike bee where he does not transform although he can control his bijuu it seems more like a borrowing of chakra and a partnership more than control. I think i would be satisfied if naruto uses kyuubi in conjunction with sage mode or makes the chakra his own then it will be his own power but i think that the transformations and cloaks are giving into the kyuubi's hate and not using his own power.

[kisame123]

I really don't care about whether it's naruto's power or not, all I care about is just if it's interesting. as long as Naruto can entertain me with his powers, I'll be pleased and the same goes for all the rest of the other characters, which sadly suck so hard. either way, whether Naruto controls his powers or not, makes no difference as the power is always there and will always make a difference in battle. however, I can't say that I'm pleased with naruto "controlling" the kyuubi. to be honest, I liked it when the Kyuubi randomly gave Naruto his power without his consent. those were the awesome days when Kyuubi would give Naruto strength in the middle of battle or when he really needed it, surprising his opponents. I'm going to miss moments like these: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/18-19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/230/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/230/18-19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/439/14-15/ (especially this)these random moments are what made the manga exciting. the readers would never really know what would happen in the battle, it was the surprise factor that made the battles exciting. naruto's interaction with the Kyuubi was interesting as well. however, with Naruto being able to control that power, that element of surprise and randomness is gone. he is basically going to spam the power throughout battle and what is worse is the possibility of the Kyuubi becoming a tamed dog like the Hachibi. the idea of that happening disgusts me, if that does happen, you'll see people gladly cheer on Sasuke as he neuters the Kyuubi. I don't take to well to the idea of the Kyuubi becoming a good puppy, cooperating with Naruto like that dumb idiot known as the Hachibi.

I'm going to miss epic lines like these that got me interested in the manga!

"You are weak aren't you? Young one... you should be thanking me... me... the one who sealed me... the Fourth Hokage (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/230/16/)"
:kyuubi

[jdw]

If Kyuubi can maintain his own personality, like Hachibi seems to be able to do, there may be some moments like those (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/09/), just slightly different.


http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2819/091tk.jpg

[kkck]

The difference, imo, is begging for power/giving another control over you because you feel like you are not enough or are desperate, which is what Naruto had done on some prior occasions (other times just giving into rage/hatred), and defeating the Kyuubi to use his power. Either way the power does not originate from Naruto, but when one defeats a foe he usually gets the spoils of victory.

Under that logic naruto should have a couple extra hearts, hyoton and a sand armor.... I don't think kyubi should count as the spoils of victory. For one thing, a spoil of victory should not be a living thing. Naruto going from beging to extorting the kyubi is not that much of a difference IMO, the circumstances do not change. At the very least a KG is an innate ability which has to be trained and develop just as any other skill. It is literally in your genes. People compare talented KG users but that is unfair IMO given the difference in how this skills are acquired. KG is innate, you are born with it, it is a skill which has to be developed for it to be useful or special. Kyubi is not innate, it is not a birthright, it is not a skill you develop. It is a creature implanted in either unborn or recently born babies from which you have to either beg or extort power from. The whole thing about naruto training and going lots of hard work dies the second the kyubi becomes something he can use freely or at any level.

[jdw]

Under that logic naruto should have a couple extra hearts, hyoton and a sand armor.... I don't think kyubi should count as the spoils of victory. For one thing, a spoil of victory should not be a living thing. Naruto going from beging to extorting the kyubi is not that much of a difference IMO, the circumstances do not change. At the very least a KG is an innate ability which has to be trained and develop just as any other skill. It is literally in your genes. People compare talented KG users but that is unfair IMO given the difference in how this skills are acquired. KG is innate, you are born with it, it is a skill which has to be developed for it to be useful or special. Kyubi is not innate, it is not a birthright, it is not a skill you develop. It is a creature implanted in either unborn or recently born babies from which you have to either beg or extort power from. The whole thing about naruto training and going lots of hard work dies the second the kyubi becomes something he can use freely or at any level.

A victor is not required to avail himself of every spoil to be found, but he can take the spoils he desires (if they can be take at all). This is a battle for Kyuubi's power. Those other fights were not fights for the power of the enemy, but were fights for other reasons. In defeating Kakuzu Naruto could enjoy the spoils of friendship because he saved his comrades, no need for the hearts, imo, he crossed a dangerous bridge! The spoils of the Gaara fight were saving a friend, finding a close friend/ally, and disciple of the Naruto church, and saving him from eternal darkness, imo. The spoils need not be jutsu! In this fight, Kyuubi will be fighting to come back to full existence and control using his power (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/490-99/13) (which would be his spoil of battle), and Naruto will be trying to use that power and control Kyuubi (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/490-99/16).

The training hard/work thing does not die the moment he can use it freely because he was only able to get to that stage through hard work and training. In some instances, when you obtain something, it is over. You don't have to undergo the same trials and tribulations every time you use it because you did it already and it is over!

[Xiraiya]

Personally I think Naruto will turn around after this and tell it to play dead once he can control it, that way he won't be constantly using a majority of his chakra keeping it at bay (I forgot about his chakra being used 24/7 for a long time)

The training will stop Kyuubi from being a risk at all, and allow him to fight at full power without a need to worry.
So even if Naruto plans to NOT use kyuubi. He will still be better off and probably stronger after this.

However, on the downside, Kyuubi's ENTIRE chakra reserve (possibly Unlimited) will then become Naruto's own since he essentially kills it's will. Thus no more physical "kyuubi" transformation, makes me wonder how it'll look when Naruto Punches Sasuke or something and his Punch has the kyuubi's physical strength in it.

[Delbi]

I have a feeling Naruto is going to be able to completely surpress the Kyuubi's personality with his own chakra and Sage Mode.

I don't think it'll be possible for Naruto to control the fox by himself, he's going to need Sage Chakra to do so.

Saying that, I think he's also going to use the Key to unleash more and more of the Kyuubi's chakra as time goes on.

Figure it this way, the more chakra he pours out, the more of the fox's personality comes out. So initially Naruto will only have control over the 4 tailed state, and as his power and control over the fox increases he'll be able to unleash more and more tails until he can use all 9 with no ill consequence.

As far as what Naruto is going to look like, I think it's going to be completely different than anything we have seen.

For one, it's going to be compressed, no huge transformation. I don't think his face his going to change much outside of his eyes, and I think his body with be covered in some kind of chakra armor with the tails. Of course it'll be red. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he resemebled something like Grimmjow from Bleach only with more Kyuubi features and more tails and no stupid ears.

[Darth Executor]

Thus no more physical "kyuubi" transformation,

I'm not sure where you got that from. IMO it's pretty obvious that the main reason why Susanoo even exists is to give sasuke a "giant" form so he can take on the full kyuubi credibly.

[peinfollower]

The only thing I wonder about the possible Kyuubi chakra + Sage mode combo that I wonder about is if it will somewhat devalue Naruto's status as a Sage of mount Myoboku especially since they were making such a big deal out of him becoming one like Jiraiya during his sage training.

[hakuthehedgehog]

I'm not sure where you got that from. IMO it's pretty obvious that the main reason why Susanoo even exists is to give sasuke a "giant" form so he can take on the full kyuubi credibly.

IMO I think Susano'o is just plot armour Mk.II, with hatred pills.

The reason I think there won't be Kyuubi transformations is because with Sage chakra, the user's body and chakra should resist the Kyuubi chakra, so it won't peel off his skin.

Also, big tranformations could hurt comrades or damage the village, which is why Naruto probably won't use it.

[Xiraiya]

I'm not sure where you got that from. IMO it's pretty obvious that the main reason why Susanoo even exists is to give sasuke a "giant" form so he can take on the full kyuubi credibly.

I'm just saying to me, it would make sense if Naruto no longer took on the physical apperance traits of kyuubi because the chakra tries to force Naruto to become the shape of Kyuubi as Yamato once mentioned.

Keeping that in mind, if we go back to what the frog said about the Kyuubi's will and hatred being extracted along with the chakra Naruto draws (The whole problem in the first place) then by defeating the will and drawing the chakra alone and making it his own, there shouldn't be any reason for it to be full of hatred and forcing his body to take on the Kyuubi's appearance.

That's just my opinion though.

And on susano'o... it's not Relevant at this time.

[Destined_One]

Id suggest Naruto's base Kyuubi Sage form will be something simple. Kishimoto won't make any complex design, when he has to draw Naruto over and over again (Especially KB sequences), this IMO why Naruto doesn't have frog like features in Sage Mode or Ma & Pa (Which Kishimoto justified with Naruto's mastery, and the influence of the Kyuubi.)

If he does transform, it will be his trump card, and will likely only use against someone like Sasuke or Madara.

[roggie]

If he does transform, it will be his trump card, and will likely only use against someone like Sasuke or Madara.

Agreed.

Also, is it just me that thinks that cloak with bubbles sux? I hate the bubbles since the moment i first saw it.

[Xiraiya]

I've never really been a fan of Kyuubi Naruto, it was cool at first but eventually it just looked silly.

It's sort of gotten to the point where I don't think he works as a Jinchuuriki anymore mainly because there are people who can keep up with that sort of power without needing a bijuu.

[roggie]

His eyes, i like both fox and frog, but not together. Instead that "+" it could be the fox eye with the frog mark around. But black like the manga when it`s not colored :)

[Jspot]

I've never really been a fan of Kyuubi Naruto, it was cool at first but eventually it just looked silly.

It's sort of gotten to the point where I don't think he works as a Jinchuuriki anymore mainly because there are people who can keep up with that sort of power without needing a bijuu.

I'm not sure how a powerful nin being able to keep up with bijuu-level power relates at all to whether an individual works as a jinchuuriki.

[NAM61]

i like the kyuubi and sage mode mixture it is similar to sasuke's EMS. where he has to mix his own MS with his brothers. he uses another persons power to gain new abilities. it is the same with naruto mixing sage mode in the kyuubi it is his own version of the ems by mixing 2 powers together. also both the kyuubi and sharingan came from the juubi. both were created from the same source and both naruto and sasuke have had them since birth. well naruto had the kyuubi longer then sasuke had his sharingan cause sasuke had to awaken it. naruto has had the kyuubi since birth like with gaara and other jinchuriki the power becomes there when they can control it and use it on their own without losing their mind. like gaara if naruto loses the bijuu he will still have characteristics of the creature like gaara still has his sand control naruto will still have a high chakra reserve and regeneration.

[Darth Executor]

I'm just saying to me, it would make sense if Naruto no longer took on the physical apperance traits of kyuubi because the chakra tries to force Naruto to become the shape of Kyuubi as Yamato once mentioned.

Keeping that in mind, if we go back to what the frog said about the Kyuubi's will and hatred being extracted along with the chakra Naruto draws (The whole problem in the first place) then by defeating the will and drawing the chakra alone and making it his own, there shouldn't be any reason for it to be full of hatred and forcing his body to take on the Kyuubi's appearance.

That's just my opinion though.

But it still does for Bee, even though he presumably dispersed his own hatred. Plus, I don't see Kishi giving naruto the kyuubi transformations he got so far with the whole thing ending by not letting naruto use them at all. It would just be Sage Mode 2.0 (which is itself disappointing in that it doesn't really add anything new to naruto, just boosts the shit he already has).

[Xiraiya]

I'm not sure how a powerful nin being able to keep up with bijuu-level power relates at all to whether an individual works as a jinchuuriki.

Not in the sense you think, by not working I mean, Naruto as a Jinchuuriki is just not enjoyable to me anymore.

[zerocooldx]

If Kyuubi can maintain his own personality, like Hachibi seems to be able to do, there may be some moments like those (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/09/), just slightly different.


http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2819/091tk.jpg

Thats not (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/490-99/12) suppose to happen with the Kyuubi. At least not if Naruto wants any real control over the Kyuubi. So if Naruto does really get complete control over the Kyuubi it will only be control over its power. And there should not be any interaction between the two because the Kyuubi's mind will be blocked away from Naruto. So in theory Naruto should get all of the power and none of the attitude.

[kkck]

A victor is not required to avail himself of every spoil to be found, but he can take the spoils he desires (if they can be take at all). This is a battle for Kyuubi's power. Those other fights were not fights for the power of the enemy, but were fights for other reasons. In defeating Kakuzu Naruto could enjoy the spoils of friendship because he saved his comrades, no need for the hearts, imo, he crossed a dangerous bridge! The spoils of the Gaara fight were saving a friend, finding a close friend/ally, and disciple of the Naruto church, and saving him from eternal darkness, imo. The spoils need not be jutsu! In this fight, Kyuubi will be fighting to come back to full existence and control using his power (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/490-99/13) (which would be his spoil of battle), and Naruto will be trying to use that power and control Kyuubi (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/490-99/16).

The training hard/work thing does not die the moment he can use it freely because he was only able to get to that stage through hard work and training. In some instances, when you obtain something, it is over. You don't have to undergo the same trials and tribulations every time you use it because you did it already and it is over!

You are just sugar coating this, none of what you said makes naruto any less of a leach who stopped using his own power in any plausible way :p

Kyubi is not a thing, it is a living thing -whether it is or isn't a murderous asshole is besides the point-. He has his own inherent power and the manga is heading in a direction where naruto will subdue the kyubi to be able to use its power to his liking. Kyubi is not a KG not should it be compared to one because of many of the obvious differences. Kyubi is a creature completely alien to naruto, it was forced on him. At least sharingan is an ability developed through training and only overly talented and hard working ninja like sasuke and itachi can hope to advance it to the level they did. Even if naruto did fully made the fox into his bitch, using its power won't make it naruto's. The power would still belong to the fox, naruto won't be be using his own power he would merely be taking that of the fox. It is true not anyone is capable of properly leaching power of a biju though, only exceptional people can do it -that does not change the fact that they do not fight with their own power though-.

[Atemu]

First i would like to point out that kyuubi is naruto's speciality. I can't see other characters being capable having that beast inside them nor use it wether they can controll it or not. Yamato pointed out that naruto must be special to be able to withstand kyuubi chakra at some degree.

I think the theory is that if the will of the bijuu is released than the bijuu transformation will occur, but if the will is filtered than no V1 or V2. The host only uses the chakra. Its only sufficient to only release the chakra when compining with sage chakra. Ofcourse if naruto can change the will of the fox, then he may also learn to release it and transform just like bee.

[jdw]

Thats not (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/490-99/12) suppose to happen with the Kyuubi. At least not if Naruto wants any real control over the Kyuubi. So if Naruto does really get complete control over the Kyuubi it will only be control over its power. And there should not be any interaction between the two because the Kyuubi's mind will be blocked away from Naruto. So in theory Naruto should get all of the power and none of the attitude.

I guess we can see it differently. I see it that when Naruto goes to take the chakra, although he is not taking "kyuubi's mind" along with it if he has proper control, it doesn't mean that Kyuubi cannot express himself before or while the chakra is being taken. Kyuubi would just be mouthing off, it wouldn't be like Kyuubi's "will" is going along for the ride. Nothing in the explanation by the toads makes it seem like Kyuubi will be forever silenced. It just makes it seem like Naruto will learn to take the chakra and not have the mind (will) of the fox travel with the chakra he has taken.

[MegaX]

You are just sugar coating this, none of what you said makes naruto any less of a leach who stopped using his own power in any plausible way :p

Kyubi is not a thing, it is a living thing -whether it is or isn't a murderous asshole is besides the point-. He has his own inherent power and the manga is heading in a direction where naruto will subdue the kyubi to be able to use its power to his liking. Kyubi is not a KG not should it be compared to one because of many of the obvious differences. Kyubi is a creature completely alien to naruto, it was forced on him. At least sharingan is an ability developed through training and only overly talented and hard working ninja like sasuke and itachi can hope to advance it to the level they did. Even if naruto did fully made the fox into his bitch, using its power won't make it naruto's. The power would still belong to the fox, naruto won't be be using his own power he would merely be taking that of the fox. It is true not anyone is capable of properly leaching power of a biju though, only exceptional people can do it -that does not change the fact that they do not fight with their own power though-.

As long as Sasuke doesn't get to use the EMS, then. After all, he's just leeching off Itachi's power, right?

[kkck]

As long as Sasuke doesn't get to use the EMS, then. After all, he's just leeching off Itachi's power, right?
That is off topic lol. Anyways, itachi is not alive, sasuke is literally not sucking power from anyone. All he got from EMS is a MS that won't cost him his eyesight and apparently a new technique. EMS is 100% sasuke's power -even though it took an eye transplant- while kyubi's power will always be 100% kyubi's power, not naruto.

[MegaX]

That is off topic lol.

It's a comparison to Naruto, so not its not.

lol


Anyways, itachi is not alive, sasuke is literally not sucking power from anyone.

Ah, so if in subjugating the Kyūbi's will, Naruto kills it, then it's OK?


All he got from EMS is a MS that won't cost him his eyesight and apparently a new technique. EMS is 100% sasuke's power -even though it took an eye transplant-

Right. It required Itachi's power.


while kyubi's power will always be 100% kyubi's power, not naruto.

Unless Kyūbi dies in the process. Because then all Naruto will have is an immensely greater chakra pool, and possibly a new technique. And if the Kyūbi is dead, then Naruto will not literally be sucking power from anyone.

[kkck]

It's a comparison to Naruto, so not its not.

lol



Ah, so if in subjugating the Kyūbi's will, Naruto kills it, then it's OK?



Right. It required Itachi's power.



Unless Kyūbi dies in the process. Because then all Naruto will have is an immensely greater chakra pool, and possibly a new technique. And if the Kyūbi is dead, then Naruto will not literally be sucking power from anyone.

Kyubi is not gonna die lol. Naruto using kyubi is kinda like having a bodyguard. He can use it but it is not his strength. Not even remotely similar to what any KG user does -including sharingan, MS and EMS-. At least in Sasuke's case itachi won't randomly pop out to take out the enemy and have sasuke claim he did it alone. Don't put talented KG users-regardless of how hax- in the same league as leachers.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Kyubi is not gonna die lol. Naruto using kyubi is kinda like having a bodyguard. He can use it but it is not his strength. Not even remotely similar to what any KG user does -including sharingan, MS and EMS-. At least in Sasuke's case itachi won't randomly pop out to take out the enemy and have sasuke claim he did it alone. Don't put talented KG users-regardless of how hax- in the same league as leachers.

You're not getting it at all.

If Naruto masters the Kyuubi, he is taking the Kyuubi's power as his own.

He isn't a leech, he is a conquerer that takes he spoils of defeating and humiliating his oponent.
It's like disarming someone and then using their sword, is said swordsman a leacher? Of course not.
If you go by that logic, every shinigami in bleach is a leacher that leaches power from his zanpakuto (except kenpaichi, who is a wannabe leacher).

[ninjabot]

You're not getting it at all.


If Naruto masters the Kyuubi, he is taking the Kyuubi's power as his own.

He isn't a leech, he is a conquerer that takes he spoils of defeating and humiliating his oponent.
It's like disarming someone and then using their sword, is said swordsman a leacher? Of course not.
If you go by that logic, every shinigami in bleach is a leacher that leaches power from his zanpakuto (except kenpaichi, who is a wannabe leacher).

Nope, Naruto's a leech, and it's this fact that is the major reason for my dislike of him. See, there's no amount of "blood, sweat, or tears" that Naruto can shed inorder to make the Kyuubi's power his own. We've been told how he can gain his power: by taking the chakra alone, without the mental energy. Not by beating him in a arm wrestling match or through enduring body-destroying training regimens. Not from Mortal Kombat either (he's fighting his own hatred. And in an illusion no less, lmao!).

Naruto simply needs to learn "a trick" to get all the spoils of the Kyuubi. No hard work needed. Its rediculous. The most hilarious part? His mastery of Sage Mode required no such "blood, sweat, and tears" either. You know what Naruto did to learn to summon natural energy? He sat still.

That's right. He sat still. Now, he balanced the chakra he had with the natural energy he was absorbing, sure. But the point stands that his hard work came down to how long he can ignore boredom. That's all fine and dandy, I'm used to it. It's just, if he's gonna get a new power that does the same thing as Kyuubi, atleast make it legitimately his power. But Sage Mode comes down to him relying on borrowed power still, just as he had his entire life. Now, instead of Kyuubi giving him a "get out of battle free" card, nature is doing it.

So, if it comes down to Naruto "borrowing" energy from nature, then "taking" energy from a Kyuubi he didn't subdue/defeat, then mixing it together to become Super Freeloader, who the hell here will be impressed? And most importantly, why?

EDIT: and Shinigami's zanpakuto is the manifestation of THEIR inner spirit. It's literally their soul manifested. Not the same thing. If you wanted to compare it to Bleach, compare it to Ichigo and the other Vaizards with their inner hollows. For the record, I dislike Ichigo exponentially more than I do Naruto.

[3c]

This is not a thread to discuss Sasuke and his EMS powers in. Keep this to Kyuubi Sage discussion like the OP instructed. Camparisons of EMS being an outside power source compared to Kyuubi is fine, but not in depth.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Nope, Naruto's a leech, and it's this fact that is the major reason for my dislike of him. See, there's no amount of "blood, sweat, or tears" that Naruto can shed inorder to make the Kyuubi's power his own. We've been told how he can gain his power: by taking the chakra alone, without the mental energy. Not by beating him in a arm wrestling match or through enduring body-destroying training regimens. Not from Mortal Kombat either (he's fighting his own hatred. And in an illusion no less, lmao!).

Naruto simply needs to learn "a trick" to get all the spoils of the Kyuubi. No hard work needed. Its rediculous. The most hilarious part? His mastery of Sage Mode required no such "blood, sweat, and tears" either. You know what Naruto did to learn to summon natural energy? He sat still.

That's right. He sat still. Now, he balanced the chakra he had with the natural energy he was absorbing, sure. But the point stands that his hard work came down to how long he can ignore boredom. That's all fine and dandy, I'm used to it. It's just, if he's gonna get a new power that does the same thing as Kyuubi, atleast make it legitimately his power. But Sage Mode comes down to him relying on borrowed power still, just as he had his entire life. Now, instead of Kyuubi giving him a "get out of battle free" card, nature is doing it.

So, if it comes down to Naruto "borrowing" energy from nature, then "taking" energy from a Kyuubi he didn't subdue/defeat, then mixing it together to become Super Freeloader, who the hell here will be impressed? And most importantly, why?

EDIT: and Shinigami's zanpakuto is the manifestation of THEIR inner spirit. It's literally their soul manifested. Not the same thing. If you wanted to compare it to Bleach, compare it to Ichigo and the other Vaizards with their inner hollows. For the record, I dislike Ichigo exponentially more than I do Naruto.

Naruto's learning the Natural energy was not just sitting still.
Look how bad he was beaten for hours in order to learn how to take Natural energy with the oil.

Naruto NEEDS to subdue the Kyuubi, not using a trick to take the Kyuubi's will out of the chakra, he has to overpower the Kyuubi's mind with his own, which is by no means an easy thing to do, otherwise Naruto would've done it by now, it is like overpowering an extremely powerful mind control over your body, that has the risk of death or losing lifespan.

If Jinchuriki control was as easy as you say it was, every Jinchuriki in history would be able to control their bijuus perfectly, but most of them can't.
So far, only 2 did, and they were hailed as genius.

If you disregard mental training, then by your logic, someone who cheats and puts all of the subjects in a tiny piece of paper to have a good grade is more deservant of having tha grade other than a student who sits in the classroom listening and studies only by sitting down and reading the book.

[ninjabot]

Naruto NEEDS to subdue the Kyuubi, not using a trick to take the Kyuubi's will out of the chakra, he has to overpower the Kyuubi's mind with his own, which is by no means an easy thing to do, otherwise Naruto would've done it by now, it is like overpowering an extremely powerful mind control over your body, that has the risk of death or losing lifespan.

No, he doesn't. The Kyuubi latches on to the hatred in your heart and uses it to force it's will over you. Subduing the Kyuubi comes down to removing the hatred in your heart. Not fighting it tooth and nail. And sure as hell not overpowering it. Just like the Sage training, all Naruto needs to do is sit still and become a blank slate. Such HARD training. Oh sure, he got clubbed in the head every now and then. Hardly as dangerous or lethal as fighting the 8 tails jinchuuriki or a whole room fool of Kage.


If Jinchuriki control was as easy as you say it was, every Jinchuriki in history would be able to control their bijuus perfectly, but most of them can't.
So far, only 2 did, and they were hailed as genius.

It's bijuu control, not jinchuuriki control. Jinchuuriki are the ones holding the beasts within them. And they can't control their bijuu perfectly because not all bijuu are the same, not all jinchuuriki are the same, and quite possibly, not all of them have had the time to train that Yondaime Mizukage and Killerbee has. For one, the Kyuubi is pure hatred in physical form. It's been stated that he needs his hosts hatred inorder to grab hold of it and use it as a medium to take control. I'd say it's alot easier to ignore your hatred than it is to fight a beast of chakra the old fashioned way.

Likewise, there's no where can you show me that it's the same for every bijuu. For all you know Hachibi, Yonbi, Ichibi, Rokubi...all of them had more easily manipulated bijuu.


If you disregard mental training, then by your logic, someone who cheats and puts all of the subjects in a tiny piece of paper to have a good grade is more deservant of having tha grade other than a student who sits in the classroom listening and studies only by sitting down and reading the book.

Misenterpretation for the lose. My logic entails that gaining a game winning advantage with the least amount of effort (effort that can't even be CONSIDERED effort) is not respectable and shouldn't be praised. We'll use your flawed analogy:

If you were about to take a test, and I studied for that test, but you had every answer to said test (gained by just SITTING STILL and waiting for them to be set on your desk), and you end up getting test scores far above mine, despite me studying day and night, losing sleep and drinking Mountain Dew non stop to stay awake...then you get no props, no respect, no honor from your achievements.

Now, before you bother mentioning Sasuke, killing your brother and sacrificing your sanity is most definitely a price. Far more costly then "sitting still". Going blind is far more of a price than "getting bonked on the head with a stick". Don't ever compare the Kyuubi to the Mangekyou Sharingan if you want to be taken seriously.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Sage training is not just standing still, it is standing perfectly still while gathering a perfect amount of chakra from the nature and molding it, and that is no simple task, otherwise Jiraya, a genius in his own right, would've perfected it.
Even the elder frogs, who are 900 years old, can't gather sage chakra as quickly as Naruto, which implies that is a very hard a delicate thing to do.

And Kyuubi control is not just leaving away all the shreds of hatred (which is a hard thing to do by it's own right as we can see with Sasuke), it is also about controlling the Fox's immense chakra.

While this may sound easy, it is not, as it requires even better chakra control, especially if you try and mix it with Sage mode, because the more chakra you have, the more Sage chakra you have to take from the Nature and the more time it takes to balance the chakra while controlling an obnoxius chakra and stading perfectly still at the same time.

[ninjabot]

@MegaX: Oops.


Sage training is not just standing still, it is standing perfectly still while gathering a perfect amount of chakra from the nature and molding it, and that is no simple task, otherwise Jiraya, a genius in his own right, would've perfected it.
Even the elder frogs, who are 900 years old, can't gather sage chakra as quickly as Naruto, which implies that is a very hard a delicate thing to do.

Jiraiya wasn't the main character of the series. And when was Jiraiya ever called a genius? And really, you have to stop blowing out of proportion this whole "Sitting still is seriouz bizniz" stuff. You sit still and the energy goes into YOU. All you do is make sure it's not so much that it overcasts your innate energy. And the majority of ninja out there have much better chakra control than Naruto. He simply was lucky enough to be born with a large chakra supply.

Tell me, who would've mastered Sage Mode faster: Sakura or Naruto?



And Kyuubi control is not just leaving away all the shreds of hatred (which is a hard thing to do by it's own right as we can see with Sasuke), it is also about controlling the Fox's immense chakra.

Yes it is. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/490/11/

Take the chakra without taking the will. By having a strong will, free of hatred. So yeah. That IS all it takes, as per the manga scan.


While this may sound easy, it is not, as it requires even better chakra control, especially if you try and mix it with Sage mode, because the more chakra you have, the more Sage chakra you have to take from the Nature and the more time it takes to balance the chakra while controlling an obnoxius chakra and stading perfectly still at the same time.

Oh, I know what it takes to mix them together. That doesn't change the fact that neither resource is exclusively his. Be impressed with using someone else's strength as your own. Doesn't matter to me. I for one, know better.

[Xiraiya]

There's a good chance that Naruto's Natural chakra pool being so huge and constantly growing over time from Kyuubi that is the main reason he was able to perfect Sage mode, I imagine that the less chakra you have the harder it is eventually to the point of being impossible.

So someone like Kakashi would either not be able to even attempt it, OR he would have to get it right on the first go or become a frog etc.

[M3J]

I don't think we'll see much of Kyuubi Sage Naruto. Sage Mode is basically the same as Kyuubi mode, but not as powerful or longreaching, and it's safe for allies and the user itself. Kyuubi mode is just more dangerous.
If anything, Kyuubi may come into play while Naruto's in Sage Mode when genjutsu is being cast or is cast upon Naruto. Kyuubi Sage to me is like, putting an iPhone in a Droid phone. There's some differences, but both are mostly the same. Both can be used together to overcome some weakness to its user, but otherwise both may not be as necessary.

[niblack89]

I don't think we'll see much of Kyuubi Sage Naruto. Sage Mode is basically the same as Kyuubi mode, but not as powerful or longreaching, and it's safe for allies and the user itself. Kyuubi mode is just more dangerous.
If anything, Kyuubi may come into play while Naruto's in Sage Mode when genjutsu is being cast or is cast upon Naruto. Kyuubi Sage to me is like, putting an iPhone in a Droid phone. There's some differences, but both are mostly the same. Both can be used together to overcome some weakness to its user, but otherwise both may not be as necessary.

I see a fusion of sage mode and the kyuubi, kish put the idea in the mind also Naruto has never completely mastered a complete jutsu (except shadow clone) shadow clone is needed for rasnegen, and is used for FRS it also used for sage mode. Or like you said to be used overcome each other weaknesses.

Ps. Combining the i Phone and Droid would be the best phone invented, both have app's with Google and i Tunes, theirs more but this is a Naruto thread

[Naruto2011]

what i think would be extremely cool is what if naruto transforms into the kyubi and then goes into sage mode! the fox already has human like features, such as his hands. if he has those hands, it should enable him to perform jutsus. imagine the ninetails in sage mode performing a rasenshuriken!!! :blink

[pimp naruto kun]

I hope for kyuubi sage mode because it would put an end to this tailed cloak and full transformations which i hate i think it would be cooler for him to be in sage fox eyes but still human in my opinion that would be cooler than a giant fox fighting ninjas

[nouvomx]

@ninjabot

you make it sound like sitting still is like doing nothing. Those are very different things, Even as sitting still he was doing chakra balance, which is difficult by itself since he has a 4 elements to consider instead of 3, physical energy, spirtual energy, fox's chakra and nature energy.

He has honed the mastery of controlling / balancing these 3 elements (3, physical energy, spirtual energy). That's the main reason why he Naruto sucked at balancing chakra before, its because of the fox chakra, as stated in the manga.

I believe Naruto is at genius level as well like his father (4th hokage). Genius level at both hard-work and innate talent. It was always the fox that made Naruto's life a mess. Before he sucks at shadow clone jutsu, but later it became his main arsenal, he's probably one of the best using it.

So my point is, the sage training, its not just sitting still. It's the culmination of handwork and innate talent Naruto has. And I don't believe Sakura can even come close in mastering Sage Justu if she has the fox chakra disrupting her always. She's probably on a rampage, because she could be easily overwhelmed by the Kyubi.

Like Yamato said, Naruto was special having been able to suppress Kyubi. But like I said, its not just being special, its also because of hard-work. Without training even a genius would fall upon prey to a stupid counterpart.

Also the fact that Kyubi, is living inside Naruto, Naruto's own body as a host. Then by no means, he owns Kyubi! and whatever kyubi has, Naruto owns it as well.

It's like having a castle, the castle being your own domain, you own everything. From the soldiers to the maids. You can easily commandeer your troops to conquer a new land or whatever. Since you own the soldiers, it is your power. That's why a king is supreme. In Naruto's sense, he's currently battling, who own's the body, who is king, if Naruto succeed, then he can command / take over Kyubi's power as his own, ergo he owns kyubi.

[niblack89]

I see a lot of people disliking the cloaks but no one is understanding the purpose it gives Naruto. While he will be facing Sasuke who has the best defense since Itachi, it gives Naruto a great defense also, the cloaks comes with jutsu too.

Naruto without the cloak would suck, it would just be like 0tails, he would gain speed, power and enhanced jutsu but that sage mode. The cloaks are the amount of power released.

The kyuubi is Naruto's birth right just like Sasuke's sharingan. After this battle the kyuubi's chakra will be his own so he's not leaching anymore, it's an extending of his own power. Also sage mode isn't his own power he is using the power of the air and ground.

[purearab318]

kyubi + sage= naruto has become the most powerful being, with the most chakra character currently existing in the naruto universe.

but naruto is still susceptible to a gengutsu of uchiha power. remember that killer bee was saved by his partner the hachibi helping him against sasukes tsukiyomi. at the end of chapter 499 kyubi said i wont forget this naruto thereby implying that he's going to get even.

lets not forget that inorder to get out of tsukiyomi naruto needs the kyubis to disrupt the casters genjutsu (tsukiyomi).

[Centrelink]

I want the kyubi form to represent.

Sorry but I loved his transformations, especially the added abilities it gave him (fox cloak hands are awesome).

I would be happy with some form of red pulsing chakra he could control to some extent with some of the bones from his transformation during the pain arc on his body. kinda like bone armor.

[pimp naruto kun]

I see a lot of people disliking the cloaks but no one is understanding the purpose it gives Naruto. While he will be facing Sasuke who has the best defense since Itachi, it gives Naruto a great defense also, the cloaks comes with jutsu too.

Naruto without the cloak would suck, it would just be like 0tails, he would gain speed, power and enhanced jutsu but that sage mode. The cloaks are the amount of power released.

The kyuubi is Naruto's birth right just like Sasuke's sharingan. After this battle the kyuubi's chakra will be his own so he's not leaching anymore, it's an extending of his own power. Also sage mode isn't his own power he is using the power of the air and ground.

The reason i dont like them is because its like every other jinchuriki basically except for nine tails unorginal stuff we have seen since part I. Also not trying to be rude but what are you saying about the cloaks = amount of power we dont need cloaks to know if he is using its full power or not and i would much prefer a 0 tails than a giant fox running around spamming lazors at least have a human naruto spam lazors if your gonna go that road. what exactly is bad about speed gain, power gain and enhanced jutsu i would much rather have a kyuubi sage or rilkkoudo seal type form than seeing more partial transformations and cloaks which were cool at first but have been used for a long time and just seem stupid to me. i'm not saying he has to have no sort of transformation at all but at least change it up and make it different unlike every jinchuriki shown thus far. naruto seems to only transform when he feels the fox's hate so i have some hope that their could be a different non cloak transformation showing his mastery without succumbing to the fox's hate. also the cloaks arent that great a defense seeing as how naruto during VOTE fight broke his arm while in cloak and was stabbed by orochimaru in part II people keep saying it will be like susanoo and be invicible but i mean we saw what hapened when people have begun to overcome and break through susanoo. i just dont like cloaks cause they take away from jutsu arsenal and battle is simply reduced to monster blasts i want naruto to actually show jutsu using sage mode and kyuubi chakra without having battles become cloak/tailed/partial transformations/ full bijuu i just hope kyuubi sage happens because i just don't like the cloaks and its not like people don't get the point of cloaks i would rather see something different p.s sage mode is a decent defense too as it makes naruto's body super durable (as shown in training with fukasaku) and hard to hurt and who's to say that sage + kyuubi mode or any other potential form he may take wont be a really good defense he doesnt necessarily need cloaks for that theres more than one way to have good defense it doesnt have to be so cut and dry

[Hojinmaru]

The cloak is not a result of giving into the beasts hate, B uses the cloaks to and he's not giving into hate. If anything these last few chapters have shown that he and the beast have no hate towards each other. There will be transformations for Naruto but he will now be in control. The only thing I fear is that he will loose the edge of the cloak it's self acting on it's own like in VotE fight where the chakra creates an arm and acts independent of Naruto. That gave him an advantage over the sharingan which was trying to track and predict his movements. True the higher end transformations usually result in huge one-shot attacks ment to end fights but with FRS and Kirin it's pretty much the same thing without transformations now so what's the difference? The sage/kyuubi mix formation was the best yet and showed Naruto in full control of his actions, I'm hoping we see more of that in the future.

[TheBeastWithin]

No, he doesn't. The Kyuubi latches on to the hatred in your heart and uses it to force it's will over you. Subduing the Kyuubi comes down to removing the hatred in your heart. Not fighting it tooth and nail. And sure as hell not overpowering it. Just like the Sage training, all Naruto needs to do is sit still and become a blank slate. Such HARD training. Oh sure, he got clubbed in the head every now and then. Hardly as dangerous or lethal as fighting the 8 tails jinchuuriki or a whole room fool of Kage.



It's bijuu control, not jinchuuriki control. Jinchuuriki are the ones holding the beasts within them. And they can't control their bijuu perfectly because not all bijuu are the same, not all jinchuuriki are the same, and quite possibly, not all of them have had the time to train that Yondaime Mizukage and Killerbee has. For one, the Kyuubi is pure hatred in physical form. It's been stated that he needs his hosts hatred inorder to grab hold of it and use it as a medium to take control. I'd say it's alot easier to ignore your hatred than it is to fight a beast of chakra the old fashioned way.

Likewise, there's no where can you show me that it's the same for every bijuu. For all you know Hachibi, Yonbi, Ichibi, Rokubi...all of them had more easily manipulated bijuu.



Misenterpretation for the lose. My logic entails that gaining a game winning advantage with the least amount of effort (effort that can't even be CONSIDERED effort) is not respectable and shouldn't be praised. We'll use your flawed analogy:

If you were about to take a test, and I studied for that test, but you had every answer to said test (gained by just SITTING STILL and waiting for them to be set on your desk), and you end up getting test scores far above mine, despite me studying day and night, losing sleep and drinking Mountain Dew non stop to stay awake...then you get no props, no respect, no honor from your achievements.

Now, before you bother mentioning Sasuke, killing your brother and sacrificing your sanity is most definitely a price. Far more costly then "sitting still". Going blind is far more of a price than "getting bonked on the head with a stick". Don't ever compare the Kyuubi to the Mangekyou Sharingan if you want to be taken seriously.

dude u are such a naruto hater... umm sasuke got pawned at the kage summit, and ended up saved by madara and the leaf guy, and he didnt kill his brother, he died on his own from being sick, so stop praising sasuke so much cuz if narutos a leech den so is sasuke... afterall he would of got pawned by bee if not for ameretsu, which was GIVEN to him by his brother... just like minato gave the fox to naruto, so w.e... the curse seal was also GIVEN to him... and now he has his brothers eyes which were also GIVEN to him... so by ur logic sasuke is the biggest leech in the manga unlike naruto who was only given the fox... bcuz only he can controll it..

remember all the stone frogs at the mountain??? those were all people who tried and failed at the sage arts... so sage training tho it looks simple in fact is the hardest training in the manga....

The fox is narutos birth right... he was left with no parents, and was shuned by his entire village... he endured countless years alone being hated by his entire village becuz of the fox.. now u wna turn around and say its unfair for naruto to use his power??? Or call it leechin??? well its only fair, bcuz of the fox narutos childhood was a disaster, he deserves every ounce of the kyuubis power... its HIS power.. the beast lives within him, burdens HIS life... the least the fox could do is give him his power, and he had to take it for himself, tho his mother help'd... sasuke has had more help in power boost, oro (cursed mark) itachi (ameretsu) and madara (itachis eyes) pfff emo boy is the real leech!!

[pimp naruto kun]

The cloak is not a result of giving into the beasts hate, B uses the cloaks to and he's not giving into hate. If anything these last few chapters have shown that he and the beast have no hate towards each other. There will be transformations for Naruto but he will now be in control. The only thing I fear is that he will loose the edge of the cloak it's self acting on it's own like in VotE fight where the chakra creates an arm and acts independent of Naruto. That gave him an advantage over the sharingan which was trying to track and predict his movements. True the higher end transformations usually result in huge one-shot attacks ment to end fights but with FRS and Kirin it's pretty much the same thing without transformations now so what's the difference? The sage/kyuubi mix formation was the best yet and showed Naruto in full control of his actions, I'm hoping we see more of that in the future.

The cloaks are the result of the bijuu's will as it was shown in around chapter 490 when the scroll frog explains naruto's method of kyuubi control when I say hate I don't mean the emotion but I mean the evil will of the kyuubi and malice that it influences naruto to assume its form as explained by gerotora. I'm not saying bee and hachibi have hate at all I am saying that at least from what has been shown hachibi is not sealed as the kyuubi is thus allowing it to give chakra to bee which could mean he receives chakra mixed with will from it causing him to transform. I just want naruto to use something different than bee instead of using cloak and tail crap . Naruto has taken all the chakra from kyuubi making it his own so I don't see why he should transform just by using it he has managed to use it without transforming befor and staying in full control like in neji fight and kyuubi sage mode I would rather see that than some fox or some weid black thing with semi human face launching lazors. Also alhough frs and kirin are strong they are usually used after all other jutsu have been used and aren't the first thing that's used and then the fight ends all fox using tailed cloaks are usually the same 1. Transforming into cloak or tails 2. Rampaging and screaming around and even when in control mostly the same. 3. Chakra hand or some weirf body distortion technique. 4. Chakra blast. Kyuubi sage mode is the best of both worlds as it shows control over the kyuubi and sage mode simultanusly and now he can use the full power of the kyuubi with sage mode I just think its more impressive if a jinchuriki can control the full chakra while remaining in control then succumbing to the will and borrowing chakra from the kyuubi to transform

[Ednometry]

Ok, so let me get this straight... a few of you seem to think that Naruto is a leech for using the Kyubi... That he has not earned that power... So then the fact that he has suffered and been alone for most of his life for being one of few people left on the planet, as explained by his mother, with chakra even capable of suppressing the Kyubi... A monster exponentially more powerful than all other bijuu... Keeping it safely tucked away in his own body, not giving into his situation and hating the rest of the world for it (which is more or less what Sasuke did)... Only releasing it's power in the most dire of circumstances and usually for a friend's sake... all means nothing? None of this counts as "hard work" or blood, sweat and tears? You're saying he didn't earn this power though he's paid for it his whole life... by losing his family along with the possibility of acceptance by his village. That having to basically prove himself at every turn to every person almost ever in his life isn't enough of a sacrifice. You want him to what... lift weights? Oh wait, if he was born with it or it didn't have a will of his own then it wouldn't be leeching?

If in reality a man swallowed a bolt of lightning and then fried things by shooting electricity out of his ass that would make him incredible for doing the impossible because he should have died from being struck by lightning!!! That's Naruto's bloodline, doing the impossible against all odds!!! He's conquered a freaking force of nature by shear will alone!!! His bloodline and chakra were enough to keep it in check on their own but his will and hard work lead him to where he is now, which is in charge of one of the most potent and large bodies of chakra in his entire universe!!! Stop this leech talk BS...

IMHO I hope he still rocks the tails in one form or another, a clear shroud like the 8 tails with the sage mode keeping his skin from burning off would be cool... Then he could do that whole swallowing a ball of hyper chakra mouth cannon jutsu on his own and obliterate Susanoo in the blink of an eye. Or maybe he could just sit still and send his chakras out to kick Sasuke's ass on their own, like Kage bunshins made of just chakra (sage and kyubi) that could reshape themselves on the fly when attacked instead of going "poof". I liked the look he had with the spiral seals and flaming shroud, if he looked like that with the cross sage mode/kyubi eyes from the Nagato confrontation (I can't call it a fight) I would love that!!!

[benelori]

Please keep the discussion within normal parameters, it would be a shame for this thread to transform into Sasuke/Naruto bashing
Thanks a lot