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Akainu
May 03, 2010, 12:43 AM
If you haven't seen the goodies yet, you can check them out in the Spoiler pics and summaries thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1901814#post1901814) This is where you can discuss all about them. But remember no spamming.

Please remember: NO SPOILERS OUTSIDE THE SPOILER THREADS. This rule will be strictly enforced. Please respect those that don't want to be spoiled. Thanks

The chapter is out, grab it here (http://mangahelpers.com/m/one-piece/chapters/584/)

OdaForPresident
May 12, 2010, 06:17 AM
Some google translate notes:

Pirates try to beat up Luffy, it doesn't work because he's made out of rubber. This freaks em out. Then they use some other weapons which does work and causes Luffy to spit up blood and cry.

Jayden_kropp
May 12, 2010, 06:28 AM
It would be bad ass if they used a wrench lol or a hammer. :tem

Amazeroth
May 12, 2010, 06:31 AM
It would be bad ass if they used a wrench lol or a hammer. :tem
That would not work either, I think. Just look how Alvira (is this her name? the fat girl with the big hammer, in the first chapters) tries to hit luffy with her giant hammer. It doesn't even hurt him a little.

I guess there will be some sharp weapons, like a sword.

OdaForPresident
May 12, 2010, 06:32 AM
Apparently they do try to hit him with a hammer, or they knock over a tree with a hammer? Couldn't really make it out. Then they hit him with a glove which has wooden splinters in it? Something along those lines.

Saira
May 12, 2010, 06:33 AM
or perhaps, i don't now if write right, a seastone weapon...buah...my englisch...

OunknownO
May 12, 2010, 06:33 AM
That would not work either, I think. Just look how Alvira (is this her name? the fat girl with the big hammer, in the first chapters) tries to hit luffy with her giant hammer. It doesn't even hurt him a little.

I guess there will be some sharp weapons, like a sword.

correction, it was a club... Can't wait to see the faces of those pirates when they hit luffy

bittman
May 12, 2010, 07:24 AM
Waiting for about 35 pages of moaning that this is another pointless flashback chapter!

But I'll jump the gun early on this one and say this is more interesting than Shanks turning up already just by existing. That said, doesn't actually look like a lot of progress. Summary of it all seems to be like:

Ace and Sabo attack...Luffy gets hit...they're going to sell Luffy? Something about all the treasure too, still nothing really amazing yet, just some more setup for the flashback really.

Lyn685
May 12, 2010, 07:25 AM
I´m slightly confused with the new Coverstory with Crocodile.
Is it canon now or not?

Marche
May 12, 2010, 07:28 AM
Ehi in One Manga forum on "the spoiler discussions spoiler", before than the pics came, there was a spoiler where was said than Crocodile was in the cover, and than there was a flashback.
But the thing most important is than Dadan read a newspaper in which was wrote than the Tenryuubito will gone in Rufy's country.
Unfortunetely I haven't understood if this is in the flashback or in the current time.
I hope in the current time...

And this spoiler was posted by Aohige, or so seems.

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 12, 2010, 07:29 AM
Waiting for about 35 pages of moaning that this is another pointless flashback chapter!


okay .

seems like the story will progress i'll take a guess and say 2 or 3 more chapters left .

BlackHair
May 12, 2010, 07:59 AM
A Tenryo? Not bad. Seems like there is some kind of unexpected event going to happen. I might change my opinion afterall. But regardless still hope this is done within 2-3 more chapters.

I hope the Croco cover is not a one-shot, wishing it to become a cover-story.

Lyn685
May 12, 2010, 08:04 AM
I guess there is now another option for Sabos fate.
He could´ve somehow fallen into the hands of the Tenryuubito.
I´d like to know if that Tenryuubito is also such an powerhungry douchebag like those we already know.

DaoneLuffy
May 12, 2010, 08:12 AM
Everyone is pissed off at this flashback but this is Oda we are talking about. A tenryuubito on the scene this early in a story, I think this is going to be a good story with a nice plot twist in the end.

redred
May 12, 2010, 08:16 AM
A Tenryo? Not bad. Seems like there is some kind of unexpected event going to happen. I might change my opinion afterall. But regardless still hope this is done within 2-3 more chapters.

I hope the Croco cover is not a one-shot, wishing it to become a cover-story.

yeah im looking forward to the tenryo >_<
tho i cant seem to remember at all luffy even knowing what a tenryo even was back in shabondy. so now im kinda curious as to wths gonna happen.
anybody else feel as if this chapter seems really long? lol

Razh
May 12, 2010, 08:23 AM
Tenryuubito? Definitely unexpected. Kinda seems like this flashback is becoming more and more interesting, doesn't it? ;)

OunknownO
May 12, 2010, 08:24 AM
"Ace, Sabo, and Luffy. Soon these three would do nothing all day and night but fight with the beasts of the mountain road and jungles, and town’s punks, the scoundrels of the garbage heap and the bay’s pirates. This bad reputation would soon come to the land and reach the streets."

So sabo trained with them. Now it's even more possible for sabo to have a role in the future...

PS. So this is not just a short flashback but a small arc
PSS. Oda is legend , he made a usually boring flashback interesting(while the flashback's in the rest of the mangas are boring)

jojoSB
May 12, 2010, 08:27 AM
I'm both excited and yet confused regarding the emergence of the tenyuubito...
..can't believe how early on Oda decided to set their tribe collided with the fate of Luffy;
that later on in life Luffy goes head-on against.. and yet he've never heard of the tenryubito -
but now recalling them in his flashback!? .....I not questioning the story's progression,
the plot does goes eerie though..

Lyn685
May 12, 2010, 08:27 AM
I knew that Oda would also use this FB to give more information, thats why I didn´t complain. I know that Oda isn´t stupid.
Now i´m excited for what this FB has to offer.

BlackHair
May 12, 2010, 08:29 AM
yeah im looking forward to the tenryo >_<
tho i cant seem to remember at all luffy even knowing what a tenryo even was back in shabondy. so now im kinda curious as to wths gonna happen.
I think Luffy will never meet the Tenryo. I can easily see Luffy be influenced by his appearance, the tenryo might even have sth to do with Sabo later on, but I don't think Luffy will meet or even hear of his existence.



anybody else feel as if this chapter seems really long? lolI think it's rather normal. Just the text may look long, but it sounds normal to me. Well if you are comparing it with certain other mangas, it can be considered as long.

Marche
May 12, 2010, 08:41 AM
I guess there is now another option for Sabos fate.
He could´ve somehow fallen into the hands of the Tenryuubito.
I´d like to know if that Tenryuubito is also such an powerhungry douchebag like those we already know.Now I also think than Saboo was captured by Tenryuubito (perhaps he will save Ace, perhaps Ace hitted that Tenryuubito for some reason, and Saboo will sacrifice himself instead of Ace (and image if the Tenryuubito who came was one of the 3 who was hitted from Rufy and his crew in Shabondy (I hope in the women, considering the fact than She wants "weak creature")).
And after remember this thing, Rufy will ahed on Mariejoa for save him (he will do it now because only now he has remember it this episode).
I think after his riunion with the crew (the crew will go to Shabondy for Rayleigh, perhaps only some of this (Robin with the revolutionary, Sanji with Iva, Zoro (perhaps) with Perona, Chopper with the birds in that isle, Brook with the ship in the mini-adventures).
Perhaps Nami will came with her own force, but perhaps they will found her in someway, as for Usopp.
After their riunion, they with Jimbei (and other fisherman) and Hancock (because they are some thing to do with the Tenryuubito's) with perhaps the rivolutionary (the one who rescued Robin, but perhaps before of the mission they will take Rufy and the other to Dragon, so he will help directly).
In the truth i also hope than Law will help them, that also he will be of the mission.
Anyways I think that Hancock before of the mission will tell of her secret to the other Amazon, and after that she will leave the country (only her) and will became a Rufy's nakama.
And I think that AL will be safe, because perhaps Robin will tell to Dragon the location of Pluton and Poseidon, so He (and the RA) will treaty the Navy, will say than if they will touch AL, He will activate the two armies on Mariejoa and MF.
But perhaps AL will be under the protection of RA, of Shank's an WB's crew... I hope in the first options.


Another thing: Blue James was involved with the Tenryuubito's (and perhaps they gone there for that incident), and I will be happy if we will discover than were the Blue James pirates who kidnapped Hancock (but in the truth I don't think so).
Or perhaps were the group in Brook's mini-adventures.

Anyways sorry if I have made some mistake.

Flolex
May 12, 2010, 09:19 AM
I'm probably not the first to think about that, but might sabo get taken away and made into/become don flamingo?
they resemble each other just so much....

BlackHair
May 12, 2010, 09:27 AM
No, 0% chance to happen. Flaimngo (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/14/) (panel 2) was shown to be alive in Roger's time.

Flolex
May 12, 2010, 09:48 AM
oh, panels to remember. well thx for the reminder....

Razh
May 12, 2010, 09:56 AM
So what's the cover story? Is that Spandine? The guy on the right looks like the one that was with Charlos on Shabondy.

BlackHair
May 12, 2010, 10:01 AM
Crocodile and Mr1. I can't identify the other though. My first thought was CP9, but that's not the case anymore. Anyway, doesn't look like a one-shot cover for me, since it looks like a story. I mean I can't see animals or anything out of the ordinary. So hopefully a story.

Razh
May 12, 2010, 10:04 AM
I thought Crocodile at first too, but I don't understand whose left hand is over the papers.

Gats
May 12, 2010, 10:07 AM
Not bad, the flashback seemed so predictable, but yet, we are heading to something unpredictable. Nice Job.

Akainu
May 12, 2010, 10:10 AM
It's Mr.1 lighting Croco-boys cigar who is holding the newspaper with his hook (amazing right) and to the left of Croc we can see an animal in a suit - probably also in the background.

Sabo being enslaved now is a pretty good idea - maybe we already saw him as vehicle for one of the Tenryuubito, maybe not - who knows, but I hope we'll see :amuse

Mandala
May 12, 2010, 10:12 AM
"Ace, Sabo, and Luffy. Soon these three would do nothing all day and night but fight with the beasts of the mountain road and jungles, and town’s punks, the scoundrels of the garbage heap and the bay’s pirates. This bad reputation would soon come to the land and reach the streets."

So sabo trained with them. Now it's even more possible for sabo to have a role in the future...

PS. So this is not just a short flashback but a small arc
PSS. Oda is legend , he made a usually boring flashback interesting(while the flashback's in the rest of the mangas are boring)

They are so gonna steal from them. It worries me, cause I've gotten attached to the Sabo character as well. I hope Oda doesn't ice him off, before the Arc ends.

Bugzee
May 12, 2010, 10:14 AM
Awesomeness. Hippo in a suit and smoking! :XD

Woah. I didn't expect a Tenryuubito to appear in these flashbacks. Goa Kingdom..hey? I sure would like to know more about it now. Hopefully, just one more flashback chapter left....:shakefist

undertoe
May 12, 2010, 10:17 AM
And now all the flashback critics are eating their words. No matter what happens, I have no doubt that Sabo's fate at the end of this flashback will be a point of intrigue.

I think it's safe to say he won't be around Ace and Luffy much longer, or else he would've been considered a brother as well.

chess4
May 12, 2010, 10:20 AM
i hope the cover story is canon, and not just another picture.

guess the flashback will not be over this chapter. the only way i dont see this flashback a disappointment is if sabo is alive, ace comes back to life, or dadan appears soon.

BlackHair
May 12, 2010, 10:25 AM
Honestly I want Sabo dead. He was only a recently introduced character. So I have no interest in waiting for him to appear in the current timeline. Im already for several other character and I just don't want him add to the list.

Mandala
May 12, 2010, 10:33 AM
And now all the flashback critics are eating their words. No matter what happens, I have no doubt that Sabo's fate at the end of this flashback will be a point of intrigue.

I think it's safe to say he won't be around Ace and Luffy much longer, or else he would've been considered a brother as well.


Would make sense. This Arc is about Aces Childhood, and Death.

chess4
May 12, 2010, 10:37 AM
Honestly I want Sabo dead. He was only a recently introduced character. So I have no interest in waiting for him to appear in the current timeline. Im already for several other character and I just don't want him add to the list.

he could be a potential member if he is still alive, but i think he is dead though. in all the other flashbacks, we only saw luffy and ace. the only flashbacks we have gotten besides chapter 0, were all flashbacks of the strawhats. we got a flashback of boa, but she is still in the running for a potential strawhat.

we are now getting a flashback but i dont know if its ace or luffy's flashback. maybe its ace's flashback and some how he lives, and becomes a strawhat. yea i know thatsa a long shot, but i guess this flashback has a few more chapters.

just hope it is over with in the next chapter so we can see where the strawhats are and everyone who participated in the war.

Mandala
May 12, 2010, 10:50 AM
he could be a potential member if he is still alive, but i think he is dead though. in all the other flashbacks, we only saw luffy and ace. the only flashbacks we have gotten besides chapter 0, were all flashbacks of the strawhats. we got a flashback of boa, but she is still in the running for a potential strawhat.

we are now getting a flashback but i dont know if its ace or luffy's flashback. maybe its ace's flashback and some how he lives, and becomes a strawhat. yea i know thatsa a long shot, but i guess this flashback has a few more chapters.

just hope it is over with in the next chapter so we can see where the strawhats are and everyone who participated in the war.


Could be that Oda just didn't feel like it was neccessary to introduce him early on in the other flash backs. But with the Subject of this being how to cope with loosing someone, within the Context of a flashback, I don't see how he could be alive any later on in the series. It would be important as it pertains to how Ace, started looking after Luffy.

Still, Im gonna keep my fingers crossed that he was captured and made a slave, and Luffy and his crew will cross paths some day.

Rikudou Sennin
May 12, 2010, 11:42 AM
Could the introducing of the Tenryuubito be a part of why Dragon created the Revolutionarys?

I mean, I alaways thought Windmill Village was peaceful and nice, now this hole "Gray Terminal" stuff.

Kinde shocking, and now it even belongs to a kingdom.

Its really strange. Could Luffys hometown and a few Islands around it be linked to the "black Century" many hundred years ago.

What is the whole point. I can't wait for next week.

Damn , i dont what Ace to be dead...why Oda.

Still I could see a reason for ace to live. I know you dont like it but I cant really see the point why he should be dead.

We just have to wait.

Marche
May 12, 2010, 11:46 AM
he could be a potential member if he is still alive, but i think he is dead though. in all the other flashbacks, we only saw luffy and ace. the only flashbacks we have gotten besides chapter 0, were all flashbacks of the strawhats. we got a flashback of boa, but she is still in the running for a potential strawhat.

we are now getting a flashback but i dont know if its ace or luffy's flashback. maybe its ace's flashback and some how he lives, and becomes a strawhat. yea i know thatsa a long shot, but i guess this flashback has a few more chapters.

just hope it is over with in the next chapter so we can see where the strawhats are and everyone who participated in the war.I don't call that of Boa a "flashback", there are only a pair of page.
But anyways I have ever been sure than We will got more flashback from her.
And if what I said in my lastest post will happened, I am sure than we will see some flashback from her when She will be on the "Holy land" of Mariejoa or anyways when she will see the tenryuubito, I think/hope for some chapters.

Perhaps we will got some flashback also from Jimbei, but perhaps we will see some flashback by him when he will tell to Rufy the story about Tiger fisher, the "Sunny's pirates" and above all of Arloong (when he will tell his treaty with the WG).

jojoSB
May 12, 2010, 11:51 AM
Yes, those of Boa's are NOT flashback,
(well, not flashback "story,")
and WHY- is it impossible to distinguish just which flashback this belongs to???

Of course it's Luffy's flashback!
And now Luffy recalls the tenryuubito!!

bruticus171
May 12, 2010, 12:15 PM
I think this will only be two more chapters if they are this long and I think the Celestial Dragon is going to be some one we have see before, because I would accept the fact that Luffy forgot about the mans face when they met again at the Auction.

Ipoopshootingstars
May 12, 2010, 12:28 PM
I don't understand why oda-sama is reintroducing the Tenryuubito now, i feel that this isn't the proper flashback for that.

Ex-Shadow
May 12, 2010, 12:43 PM
OMG, back then we had to guess and wait what happened to Luffy. And this week, it's seems Odacchi decided to make us guess what will tenryubito do in Luffy hometown.... It's make me can't wait anymore, wa.......

k-dom
May 12, 2010, 12:57 PM
Tenryubito, this looks interesting but it is strange Luffy didn't know about them at Saobondy then. Or maybe he did and that's why he did not hesitate to punch one.
I'm also surprised that Sabo seems quite strong here. I underestimated him.

About the cover, I don't think they can be consider canon. The one with no title and animals never were. But since this is kinda a new type maybe that has changed too.

Razh
May 12, 2010, 01:04 PM
No I think it's the same as Absolom and Hogback thing. Why would Crocodile and Mr.1 be strolling together with suited up hippo? Sure, anything is possible, but still.

Finale
May 12, 2010, 01:13 PM
One thing we can all agree on is something has to happen to Sabo. I hope he isnt dead. Maybe he had to skip town and Ace chose to stay and look after Luffy and Ace gave Sabo the money to flee.

SenninSage
May 12, 2010, 01:19 PM
The flashback is so awesome. Luffy is really something else, getting beat up like that and still not saying a single word because he desperately wants to be friends with Ace.

I was always insanely interested in Luffy and Ace's past together, and this flashback is delivering in spades. So, now, apparently even a Tenryuubito is now on their way to the island. Can't wait to see just where the hell all of this goes. I'm getting a feeling that maybe Sabo ended up a slave of the Tenryuubito, and this flashback, in addition to informing us about Ace and Luffy's past, could be a way for Oda to eventually re-introduce Sabo into the story's present. Luffy, if he ever caught wind of the fact that Sabo was in trouble, would certainly do all he could to prevent Sabo from dying like Ace did.

zerocooldx
May 12, 2010, 01:19 PM
Hmm the Tenryuubito being shown in the flashback could be leading up to some pretty important things from here on out, at least about them.

SenninSage
May 12, 2010, 01:28 PM
Hmm the Tenryuubito being shown in the flashback could be leading up to some pretty important things from here on out, at least about them.

Yep, indeed. It could also hold major significance for just what may have happened to Sabo. Possibly he was killed, escaped, maybe also robbing a Tenryuubito in the process, or he became a Tenryuubito's slave or something.

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 12, 2010, 01:29 PM
so the forshadowing of luffy's hatred towards the nobles is now explained , but i didnt expect them to be that corrupt to the extent of taking money from pirates .

SenninSage
May 12, 2010, 01:39 PM
so the forshadowing of luffy's hatred towards the nobles is now explained , but i didnt expect them to be that corrupt to the extent of taking money from pirates .

Well, you could say it was explained at the Saboady Archipelago when Luffy saw how they treated people like animals. However, it's certainly potential news that Luffy may have a history with them that goes back even further. Although, it's certainly in doubt as to whether Luffy will ever actually come into contact with this Tenryuubito in his flashback.

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 12, 2010, 01:42 PM
Although, it's certainly in doubt as to whether Luffy will ever actually come into contact with this Tenryuubito in his flashback.

the tenryubito mentioned in luffy's flashback is rather fishy and i wouldnt expect it to be random .

deprince69
May 12, 2010, 02:01 PM
That would not work either, I think. Just look how Alvira (is this her name? the fat girl with the big hammer, in the first chapters) tries to hit luffy with her giant hammer. It doesn't even hurt him a little.

I guess there will be some sharp weapons, like a sword.

when luffy was fighting alvida, he was on anothere level

Taraku
May 12, 2010, 02:11 PM
The script promises a pretty long chapter, doesn't it?
But this thing with the Tenryuubito sounds rather fishy to me, why would a Tenryuubito leave Mariejoa/Shabondy to go to East Blue, the weakest of all Blues?
It sounds like Oda tries to keep the flashback going, I personally could have imagined it to end with Sabo living with Ace and Luffy at Dadan's...

chess4
May 12, 2010, 02:15 PM
i for one was hopin the flashbacks would be over this chapter. i wouldnt mind them if oda would had shown us what the participants in the war were up 2 first. like croc, shanks, garp, buggy and so on. im sure will get another 2 or chapters at least

monkeyD.
May 12, 2010, 02:37 PM
If theres one thing ive observed from one piece its that everyone and everything is connected in some way some how. and the first time we saw the Tenryūbito i thought ok super evil weak but powerful important but irrelevant characters. Now this is twice oda has popped them in the storyline out of the blue. once with boa nd now here, so now im thinking there gonna have a waay bigger role than we thought. "the higher ups"

chess4
May 12, 2010, 02:37 PM
that last pic is crazy.............luffy knows the true meaning of "takes a beatin but keep on tickin

mattiaildivino
May 12, 2010, 02:53 PM
Italian translation by me:

L’INCIDENTE DI PORCHEMI
Copertina: Crocodile e Mr. 1
Rufy è legato ad un albero con una fune
Rufy “Lasciatemi andare! non dirò niente!!”
Porchemi: Dannato pivello!
Un altro pirata brandisce un gigantesco martello e gets pissed

Il suono dell’impatto del martello gigante risuona dentro una piccola capanna sulla montagna di rifiuti.
Rufy sta venendo appiattito dal martello.
Rufy: ….!!
I pirati saltano via e urlano
Rufy: Odio il frutto gom gom.
Pirati: Gyaaaaaaaaaah
Porchemi: ….

Porchemi: ….? Un frutto del mare? E’ questa la verità. Portatemi il tirapugni.
Pirates: ?!
Porchemi: Ascoltami brutto pivello… Ciò che il tuo amico Ace ci ha rubato era il prezioso bottino della nostra ciurma.
Rufy è strangolato sempre di più dalla corda.
Porchemi: Lo sai dov’è… quindi diccelo!!

Bam!
Rufy: !!!
Porchemi picchia Rufy con un tirapugni e Rufy sanguine.

Il sangue si sparge
Pirati: ……! Ha funzionato!!
Porchemi: Non offendere i pirati… il nostro capitano Bluejam è un duro.
Il sangue di rufy cola come acqua mentre piange con gran dolore.

Rufy: Gyaaaaaaaaah fa male! Sono spaventato!! Salvatemi!!
La voce di Rufy risuona oltre la montagna di rifiuti.
Porchemi: Voi ragazzi, trovate Ace e Sabo
Pirati: S-sissignore!

La scena cambia in una foresta nel Gray Terminal/Colb Mountain?
Sabo: Coraggio muoviti! Se Porchemi e i suoi scagnozzi ci raggiungono siamo morti! In fretta, e sposta il nostro tesoro da un'altra parte - c’è anche il problema di quanto ci mette Luffy a schiattare!
Ace e Sabo tirano fuori tesoro e monete in gran fretta.
Sabo: Se vengono qui non prenderanno solo il loro bottino ma anche i nostri risparmi di cinque anni!


In un’altra zona della Colb Mountain due figure che cercano delle persone, e una marea di senzatetto
Tizio con un cappello: Dici di non conoscere Ace e Sabo? Siete le scorie di questa città… basta proteggerli.
Madre con dei figli piccoli: No guardare a loro solo perchè sono piccoli… sono dei cani pazzi che possono divorare una tigre.
Tizio che porta una piccolo spade: Ace e Sabo… Non li vedo. More important than that…you guys give us something worth money. (Totally not sure about this)
I due tizi: !!?

Pomeriggio.
Ace: Non mi ero accorto che si è fatto buio… Di già! Abbiamo spostato tutto il tesoro!
Ace è sulla cima di una roccia ai piedi di un albero
Sabo corre disperatamente alla roccia su cui è seduto Ace.
Sabo: Hah…..haa….Ace!!
Ace: Sabo! How was it? Sono venuti qui a cercare le monete?!
Sabo: Ha…haaa…nah non sono venuti a cercare! Quel ragazo… Rufy…. non ha ancora parlato!!
Sabo parla mentre cerca di riprendere fiato e Ace è scioccato.
Ace: Huh?!

E’ mostrta una mappa che mostra il Gray Terminal. Una baia con i pirati?
Nella nave di Bluejam.
Bluejam: Saranno sicuramente in ritardo…hey…chi è il responsabile del bottino di oggi?
Pirata: Quel furfante di Porchemi, capitano!
Bluejam: Sta già calando la notte… Quanto denaro avremo racimolato second voi? Quel bastardo… Non è possible che abbia pres oil denaro e sia scappato, vero?
Pirata: No… è impossibile….

La scena cambia su Rufy, distrutto e nei guai.
Porchemi: Taglia il BS è and spit it out! Ha….ha…
Porchemi è senza fiato e sta picchiando Rufy è un pirata cerca di fermarlo
Pirate: Po-po-po-Porchemi! Non servirà a niente!
Rufy è senza forze, piange ed è coperto di sangue
Pirate: Questo ragazzo… Ha perso persino l’energia per urlare! Probabilmente non dirà nulla… E’ così brutale che non riesco a guadare.

Porchemi: Se non volete veder crepare questo pivello allora andate a cercare Ace e Sabo! Sono in gioco le nostre vite!!
Porchemi scaccia i suoi subordinati.

Delle persone che vivono nell’ammasso di rifiuti vedono la scena.
Persona: Ad un ragazzino come quello! … Secondo te dovremmo chiamare la polizia?
Un suo compagno: Non se ne parla. Il potere della legge non ha alcun valore qui, sulla montagna di rifiuti.Quell’uomo è un membro della ciurma di Bluejam… Lui e i suoi pirati arricchiscono i nobili… I loro crimini e omicidi sono autorizzati in questo luogo. Non importa quanti cadaveri si prenderà questa montagna si spazzatura. La spazzatura è spazzutura.

Porchemi: Coraggio, parla!!
Rufy: …Non dirò nulla…
Porchemi: Dannato pivellino, non proteggere i tuoi segreti troppo a lungo
Porchemi continua a tirare botte, Rufy piange
Rufy: Non dirò nulla!!! Non dirò nulla!!
Porchemi tira fuori una spada
Porchemi: Ne ho abbastanza! Muori!!!
Rufy: ?!
Ace and Sabo: Fermo!!!!
I due interrompono la scena
Porchemi: !!!!!
Pirati: Questi ragazzini! Porchemi! Questi sono I ragazzini che ci hanno rubato il bottino! Figli di puttana!
Porchemi si scaglia su di loro.
Rufy: A-Ace!!
Rufy piange forte.

Porchemi prende Ace
Porchemi: Se sei venuto di persona non ci metterò molto.
Ace: ?!!
Porchemi: Il tuo amico ha la bocca cucita e mi ha causato un mare di problemi.
Ace: Sabo!
Porchemi: Huh?
Sabo: Uwaaaaaaah!
Sabo colpisce Porchemi con un bastone
Pirati: Porchemi!
I pirati sono nel panico.
Porchemi cade a terra.

Nel frattempo Sabo ruba un coltello ad uno dei pirati.
Pirati: Ah! Un coltello!
Sabo taglia la fune con cui è legato Rufy e scappa con lui.
Sabo: Corri, Ace!
Ace: Andate avanti da soli!
Ace aspetta mentre Porchemi si rialza.
Sabo: ?! Idiota!
Ace: Ua volt ache ci siamo affronati non scapperò via!
Ace prepara a colpire con un pugno

Sabo: Fermati! Ha una spada! E’ diverso dai bastardi nella città!
Porchemi: Hey… tu hai fatto qualcosa di vigliacco. Perchè non lasciavi semplicemente stare le monete?
Ace: Possiamo usarle molto meglio di te.
Porchemi: Basta parlare, moccioso!
Porchemi si prepara ad attaccare.
Sabo: Tu… aspetta!
Sabo lascia Rufy e prende Ace
Porchemi taglia sia il bastone che la fronte di Ace con la sua spada
Porchemi: Se perderò contro un moccioso non sarò più un pirata!
Ace sanguine dalla fronte e Sabo arrabbiato salta su.
Porchemi è calmo e Rufy è in silenzio.

La scena cambia ad un paesaggio notturno.
Bluejam: Ora capisco i dettagli…Porchemi è patetico.
Pirates: Veramete? Tu…!
Porchemi è picchiato
Porchemi: Perdonami, mio capitano… quelle monete erano…
Bluejam: Non guardarmi. Non voglio neppure vedere la tua faccia.
Bluejam colpisce Porchemi a morte.

La scena cambia.
Rufy piange.
Sabo: Tu sei un pazzo, Ace! A dire “Non mi arrenderò” davanti ad un vero pirata… perchè vuoi morire in questo stupid modo?
Sabo si arrabbia e Ace sic alma di nuovo.
Sabo: Facendo questo la ciurma di Bluejam non ci dimenticherà! Verranno a cercarci d’ora in poi.
Rufy continua a piangere
Rufy: E-ero terrorizato… Pensavo di essere morto.
Ace: Smettila! Hai intenzione di continuare a frigare ancora a lungo? Odio le femminuccie e i pappemolli, mi danno sui nervi!
Ace si arrabbia e schiaffeggia Rufy, che smette di piangere.
Ace: Oh.
Rufy: ….grazie.
Piega la testa su Ace e Sabo
Ace and Sabo: ….
Ringraziandoli scoppia di nuovo a piangere
Ruffy: G-grazie per avermi salvato!
Ace: Culattone!
Sabo: Hey hey! Ci sta solo dicendo grazie.
Sabo ferma Ace che è arrabbiato
Ace: A parte tutto… Perché non hai parlato?!Quei balordi potrebbero ucciso una donna o un ragazzino senza nessun esito!
Rufy: … Se avessi parlato, non saremmo più stati amici.
Ace: Non essere più amici è sempre meglio che essere morti!Perchè vuoi così tanto essere mio amico?

Rufy cries all teary/snotty
Rufy: Perchè non ho nessun’altro da cui prendere esempio!
Ace: ?!
Rufy: Non posso tornare al villaggio Fusha, e odio i banditi di montagna! Se non ti avessi seguito…
Ace: …….
Rufy: Sarei stato completamente solo! Ed essere solo per me è molto peggio di rischiare la vita!!
Ace: E-e I tuoi genitori…?
Rufy: Non ho nessun’altro tranne che il nonno.
Ace: E così… quando sono con te non c’è molto da preoccuparsi… quando non sono con te tu sei nei casini, eh?
Luffy: Già.

Flashback
“Cosa succederebbe se Roger avesse un figlio?! Gahahaha it would suck for that guy!
“La sua nascita e la sua vita non gli sarebbero perdonati! Sarebbe un demone!”

Di nuovo nel presente (as in the current flashback)
Ace: Tu… mi vuoi vivo?
Rufy: ?!….Certo che lo voglio!
Ace: Lo vedo… ma odio i piccoli mocciosi come te.
Rufy: Non sono un moccioso!! Sono forte!!
Ace: Forte? E com’è che saresti forte?
Rufy: Sei mai stato colpito con un coltello?! Ho 7 anni! Quando ne avrò dieci come te sarò definitivamente forte e non piangerò più!
Ace: Anche quando avevo 7 anni non piangevo mai! Idiota! Non paragonarmi a te!

Rufy: Diventerò il più forte del mondo! Ho promesso a Shanks che un giorno sarò il re dei pirati!
Rufy e Ace si guardano torvi.
Ace: Un pirata? Tu?!
Sabo: Hey…a parte tutto…ho un problema.
Ace/Rufy: ?
Sabo: Fino ad ora ho vissuto nella montagna di rifiuti, ma ora i pirati non ci risparmieranno, giusto?

La scena cambia al nascondiglio di Dadan.
Dadan: Cosa diavolo significa questo?! Ace! Rufy! Chi è questo ragazzino?!
Sabo porge la mano a Dadan
Sabo: Yo! Sei tu Dadan? Io sono Sabo.
Dadan: Sabo?! Conosco questo nome! Ho sentito che tu sei un piccolo furfante!
Sabo: Bè in effetti è così… Ho sentito anche che anche tu non hai proprio la coscienza a posto!
Dadan: Informazione superflua!

“Essendo inseguiti, Ace e il suo amico Sabo vivono ora insieme nell’incertezza del Gray Terminal”
Si dirigono fuori dal nascondiglio e Dadan urla loro dietro.
Dadan: Hey voi! Ho badato a voi quindi mi dovete qualche piccolo lavoretto!
Ace: Rufy! Non seguirci!
Rufy: Vi seguirò!

Ace, Sabo, e Rufy. Presto questi tre non avrebbero fatto altro tutto il giorno che combattere con le bestie della montagna e della giungla, con i briganti della città, i furfanti della montagna di rifiuti e i pirati della baia. Questa cattiva reputazione sarebbe presto arrivata a raggiungere le strade.

Dadan: Dogura! Magura! Dov’è “Goa”?
L’uomo nel turbante è probabilmente Dogura.
Dogura: Bè, in genere, la montagna di Colb, l’ammasso di rifiuti e il villaggio di Fusha fanno tutti parte del Regno di Goa.
Dadan: Giusto?
Magura: (Not sure about this line, but I think it’s commenting on Dadan rarely reading a newspaper)
Dadan: E così dicono che uno straniero sia giunto in queste terre? Sta diventando una gran notizia…ma che tumulto… E’ dunque questo tizio così importante? Un “Tenryuubito”(drago celeste).
Finisce mostrando il nascondiglio.

fistsofrage
May 12, 2010, 03:36 PM
Looks like all those "Sabo Dies" people took a hit with this last chapter looks like hes a real friend to fight pirates with Ace like that and hang at Dadan's place.

beastboy
May 12, 2010, 04:26 PM
Wow....
So Fushia Island is part of a country of the world govern, and accepts money from pirates, and is going to be visited by a Tenryuubito in one of the following days??
Well so now something is going to happen, cause:
1-Sabo did not depart with Ace!
2-Ace misses Dadan in his last moments!

About previews for the next chapter:
Blue Jam is going to be killed by the Tenryuubito , just before blue jam says that the money was stolen by Ace.
The Tenryuubito try's to find the treasure, and kill Ace, but is Sabo that is protecting the treasure, :Cliff Hanger:

bruticus171
May 12, 2010, 04:32 PM
Sabo dies from Tenryuubito, and Then Ace hits or beats him or her up. So Ace plans to leave the island, so that Luffy is not in trouble. May be the Tenryuubito has found the devil fruit that Ace later will eat and use its power.

Gats
May 12, 2010, 04:49 PM
Chapter out :
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/1

THM Nindo
May 12, 2010, 05:14 PM
Nice chapter...
I was hoping for this flashback to be done quick, but I guess we will still have 1-2 chapters before it's over.

In any case, it seem that the Tenryuubito are involved so it seems that they might still be in the spotlight for a little while.

I'm happy because I didn't want them to be just forgotten after what Luffy did to that guy at the auction.

Now... I'm guessing Sabo was either killed or enslaved by them.

May I suggest that we will see Luffy going in and crashing the Tenryuubito, avenging both Sabo and Boa (and her sisters) at the same time.

Note that I was against the idea of having Boa joining the crew, but if Luffy goes and avenge her, it's something that might actually be totally possible now...
He did it for every crew members before they joined...

I guess Boa is next!

Omnion_1990
May 12, 2010, 05:19 PM
Nice chapter...
I was hoping for this flashback to be done quick, but I guess we will still have 1-2 chapters before it's over.

In any case, it seem that the Tenryuubito are involved so it seems that they might still be in the spotlight for a little while.

I'm happy because I didn't want them to be just forgotten after what Luffy did to that guy at the auction.

Now... I'm guessing Sabo was either killed or enslaved by them.

May I suggest that we will see Luffy going in and crashing the Tenryuubito, avenging both Sabo and Boa (and her sisters) at the same time.

Note that I was against the idea of having Boa joining the crew, but if Luffy goes and avenge her, it's something that might actually be totally possible now...
He did it for every crew members before they joined...

I guess Boa is next!

yes i think sabo was enslaved by them and the "sabo thing" that made ace want to live was either to look for sabo OR sabo died by their hand therefore the thing that made ace want to live is become a pirate respecting sabos dream.

hy4k
May 12, 2010, 05:28 PM
2 things i noted this chapter

1. Ace saying "once i face an enemy i never run". it foreshadows his death. he took on akainu because he doesn't "run"

2. The main thing that dedfine luffy is his fear of being alone. that's why he cherishes the people around him so much. witness how much he cares about his nakama

zerocooldx
May 12, 2010, 05:29 PM
This (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/15) page alone from top to bottom said it all.

Wow...if there is one thing that really stuck out in this chapter was the fact that Ace really did mean everything to Luffy. This was definitely a very deep and telling chapter. Other then Garp, Luffy literally had nothing but Ace, who was the person that took away Luffy's loneliness. And the pain that came along with it. So this definitely puts things into perspective that much more when it comes to Ace's and Luffy's relationship. And even before Luffy and Ace became "brothers" Luffy was already willing to die for him just because he took away his loneliness. So this really adds so much more meaning to Ace's death. Man...who knows what Luffy will do once this flashback is over. His sorrow is all but destined to give birth to terrifying malice.

El-Thor
May 12, 2010, 05:45 PM
Awesome chapter ! At first I couldn't believe Oda showed a kid getting pounded like that, but then I got used to it.

After reading the last page I'm now almost entirely sure that Sabo will get enslaved and later in the story get rescued by the SH crew. He will then join them and become a real pirate like he always wanted !

One thing that I'm interested in, is why Luffy couldn't go back to his village? He seemed to have a lot of people there who cared about him...

Ratatosk
May 12, 2010, 05:57 PM
wow, that was epic. I haven't seen a pair of little kids beating people up with pipes since Black and White (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/black_white/v01/c001/18.html) :D NOW I know where that Sabo got his goggles from..

This flashback can go on for as long as it wants to as far as I'm concerned..

This Tenryuubito thing is odd though..
1) I thought Luffy had never heard of them or seen them before Sabaody? But then he might have just been keeping his mouth shut for his own incomprehensible Luffy reasons.
2) Garp left Roger's and Dragon's sons on an island that pays tribute to the Tenryuubito? My opinion of his brain powers just went down even more.

Unless it was those Pirates who were paying the Nobles off (someone mentioned giving offerings to the elite), and the kids pissed them off so much that they complained.

sarutobi_sensei
May 12, 2010, 06:18 PM
Well now that was a really good chapter.

So a Tenryuubito is going to the Goa kingdom? Now that's odd. I wonder what Sabo's part will be in there. Maybe something happens in there.

What if that guy was the son of a tenryuubito or was happy to be adopted or something by one ? that would be whicked xD

hy4k
May 12, 2010, 06:24 PM
the tenryuubito could tie into the bluejam pirates

the way i see it a confrontation is coming between the bluejam pirates and luffy/ace/sabo and the bluejam pirates are supposedly bribing the tenryuubito

it'll also be nice to see the contrast in the horrible, underpriveliged existence luffy had and the decadence of the world nobles

LongLiveOnePiece
May 12, 2010, 06:58 PM
decent chapter. but as always the design of characters by GOda is SICK!! and hilarious http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/6 hahahah i love this manga

Vizard5
May 12, 2010, 07:04 PM
it is highly unlikely that the tenryuubito comes to the gray terminal, unless he hears the rumors of luffy and co and decide he wants them for slaves.

i think people are putting too much focus on sabo. sure he will have a big role in the flashback, but the main focus is the luffy-ace relationship. ace's death was not very emotional for me, but i think that after this FB is done it will be very emotional, and have a whole new meaning to me... and that is what this FB is all about..

brownbt
May 12, 2010, 07:19 PM
This (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/15) page alone from top to bottom said it all.

Wow...if there is one thing that really stuck out in this chapter was the fact that Ace really did mean everything to Luffy. This was definitely a very deep and telling chapter. Other then Garp, Luffy literally had nothing but Ace, who was the person that took away Luffy's loneliness. And the pain that came along with it. So this definitely puts things into perspective that much more when it comes to Ace's and Luffy's relationship. And even before Luffy and Ace became "brothers" Luffy was already willing to die for him just because he took away his loneliness. So this really adds so much more meaning to Ace's death. Man...who knows what Luffy will do once this flashback is over. His sorrow is all but destined to give birth to terrifying malice.

Malice?! Come on, that is totally not in Luffy's character. He has never borne ill will for anyone, whether they are his enemy or not. Never has he set out specifically to hurt someone for the sake of hurting them.
Now vengeance is an altogether different thing. Especially when it is righteous, which it always is when coming from Luffy.
The point is, Luffy and Ace both set out to live their lives without regret. For Ace, that means never backing down from a fight (one reason why he so admired Whitebeard, I am sure). But for Luffy, it means defending the honor of his nakama. I can guarantee that he's going to put the hurt on Akainu big time. However, it will not be an act of malice, but an act of righteous revenge.

ish3
May 12, 2010, 07:31 PM
Damn the tenryuubito are involved. Now it's really going somewhere.

DARK
May 12, 2010, 07:59 PM
Well now that was a really good chapter.

So a Tenryuubito is going to the Goa kingdom? Now that's odd. I wonder what Sabo's part will be in there. Maybe something happens in there.

What if that guy was the son of a tenryuubito or was happy to be adopted or something by one ? that would be whicked xD

It would be interesting if we saw the same Tenryuubito as in Shaboudy, only 10 years younger.
Here I thought this flashback arc was going to be based off generic pirates but now that we get the Tenryuubito involved, it's going to be better than expected.

sarutobi_sensei
May 12, 2010, 08:22 PM
The 3 of them or only the one Luffy punched?

zerocooldx
May 12, 2010, 08:25 PM
Malice?! Come on, that is totally not in Luffy's character. He has never borne ill will for anyone, whether they are his enemy or not. Never has he set out specifically to hurt someone for the sake of hurting them.
Now vengeance is an altogether different thing. Especially when it is righteous, which it always is when coming from Luffy.
The point is, Luffy and Ace both set out to live their lives without regret. For Ace, that means never backing down from a fight (one reason why he so admired Whitebeard, I am sure). But for Luffy, it means defending the honor of his nakama. I can guarantee that he's going to put the hurt on Akainu big time. However, it will not be an act of malice, but an act of righteous revenge.

Malice is defined as "The desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another because of a hostile impulse." And you don't think that Luffy will possess any of that towards Akainu? Nothing like this has ever happened to Luffy, ever. Just for hurting a friend of his he would unleash hell on anyone, as we have already seen. So imagine what he will unleash now that his brother is dead. His hatred and anger towards Akainu could only be explained with the term malice. And Oda is showing us this flashback to illustrate just how much Luffy will go off because of this. Ace was more important to Luffy then anything because he took away him pain, loneliness.

Also the term "righteous revenge" is pretty good oxymoron. Revenge is a selfish desire fueled by negative emotions while righteousness is concerned with doing what is right through just actions. Oda is building up Luffy's sorrow and anger this much because we have never seen anything like this from Luffy. So yes this is going to be very much so out of character for Luffy, but thats the point. Something this horrible and impactful can't happen to someone without that person changing, even if that change is only directed towards a single individual. Which is what will happen here.

Junior
May 12, 2010, 08:30 PM
I was skeptical after reading the spoilers but I just read the chapter.

I love this flashback.

I like learning more about Luffy's past. I like seeing how badass Ace was pre-DF.

I LOVE seeing the bond between Luffy and Ace start to form. Luffy trailing Ace because he didn't want to be alone. Ace accepting Luffy because Luffy actually gave a damn if he was around or not (which contradicts what everyone else in the world said about him).

This isn't as epic as the war we just witnessed but it's epic in its own right to me.

Oh, btw.

10 e-dollars says Sabo ends up dying or betraying Ace. More likely betrayal.

brownbt
May 12, 2010, 08:44 PM
Malice is defined as "The desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another because of a hostile impulse." And you don't think that Luffy will possess any of that towards Akainu? Nothing like this has ever happened to Luffy, ever. Just for hurting a friend of his he would unleash hell on anyone, as we have already seen. So imagine what he will unleash now that his brother is dead. His hatred and anger towards Akainu could only be explained with the term malice. And Oda is showing us this flashback to illustrate just how much Luffy will go off because of this. Ace was more important to Luffy then anything because he took away him pain, loneliness.

Also the term "righteous revenge" is pretty good oxymoron. Revenge is a selfish desire fueled by negative emotions while righteousness is concerned with doing what is right through just actions. Oda is building up Luffy's sorrow and anger this much because we have never seen anything like this from Luffy. So yes this is going to be very much so out of character for Luffy, but thats the point. Something this horrible and impactful can't happen to someone without that person changing, even if that change is only directed towards a single individual. Which is what will happen here.

Well argued. I do think that the tragedy of losing his brother will lead to a change in Luffy's personality, but I personally feel awkward thinking that it will cause him to maliciously attack anyone. Luffy's most admirable trait, in my mind, is his ability to bounce back from anything. I would much prefer to see him confront Akainu and put him to shame instead of simply torturing the guy.
In a way, Ace was Luffy's treasure. Like his hat and his nakama, Ace was a companion and friend to Luffy above all else. They truly cared for each other. Akainu is not the type to flinch at the idea of pain, but to wretch at the idea of people doing as they please, an affront to the laws and "justice" that he holds so dear. I think it would be best if Luffy were to simply make Akainu feel powerless to stop him from achieving his dreams. That would be the best way to steal Akainu's treasure.
Now as far as the oxymoron goes, explain to me how the revenge that Luffy has exacted on the enemies of his nakama isn't righteous? Just because it is fueled by negative emotions does not mean that it cannot put things right. Sure, it may be motivated by his selfish desires to protect his friends and their treasure, but I think you will be hard pressed to not look at him as a good guy for doing it. This is why I call it righteous.
The problem with revenge is that it tends to begin a vicious cycle (e.g. Hamlet, Othello, pretty much all of Shakespeare), but I feel like Oda takes a somewhat more lighthearted approach to telling his story.

Edit:
Ah, I see now that I should have chosen words more carefully. Let's call it Retribution. Righteous Retribution.

mr.danly
May 12, 2010, 08:46 PM
I was skeptical after reading the spoilers but I just read the chapter.

I love this flashback.

I like learning more about Luffy's past. I like seeing how badass Ace was pre-DF.

I LOVE seeing the bond between Luffy and Ace start to form. Luffy trailing Ace because he didn't want to be alone. Ace accepting Luffy because Luffy actually gave a damn if he was around or not (which contradicts what everyone else in the world said about him).

This isn't as epic as the war we just witnessed but it's epic in its own right to me.

Oh, btw.

10 e-dollars says Sabo ends up dying or betraying Ace. More likely betrayal.

if sabo betrayed ace, why would ace take his hat and wear it for 10 years? I think it's significantly more likely that sabo dies. and I really hope sabo doesn't betray ace... I just don't see it happening based on what we've seen so far. although with the tenryuubito coming, anything's fair game.

zerocooldx
May 12, 2010, 09:03 PM
Well argued. I do think that the tragedy of losing his brother will lead to a change in Luffy's personality, but I personally feel awkward thinking that it will cause him to maliciously attack anyone. Luffy's most admirable trait, in my mind, is his ability to bounce back from anything. I would much prefer to see him confront Akainu and put him to shame instead of simply torturing the guy.
In a way, Ace was Luffy's treasure. Like his hat and his nakama, Ace was a companion and friend to Luffy above all else. They truly cared for each other. Akainu is not the type to flinch at the idea of pain, but to wretch at the idea of people doing as they please, an affront to the laws and "justice" that he holds so dear. I think it would be best if Luffy were to simply make Akainu feel powerless to stop him from achieving his dreams. That would be the best way to steal Akainu's treasure.
Now as far as the oxymoron goes, explain to me how the revenge that Luffy has exacted on the enemies of his nakama isn't righteous? Sure, it may be motivated by his selfish desires to protect his friends and their treasure, but I think you will be hard pressed to not look at him as a good guy for doing it. This is why I call it righteous.

Just because Luffy may end up possessing malice towards Akainu, which i think will happen, that doesn't mean that he will give up on his dreams and become obsessed with revenge. That would be a terrible way to go, and Oda would never do that to his manga. Luffy will still do his thing, and continue his dream of sailing the seas and becoming PK. But when it comes to Akainu, Luffy will go at him filled with anger and hatred that will come from his very core. Luffy won't look at Akainu as he did with any of his other opponents nor will he give him the same treatment when they do meet in battle. Which is what Ode is setting up here, he is making sure that everyone knows just how much this will affect Luffy, especially in respect to Akainu.

Also righteousness is a term deeply rooted in religion and theology, and i don't want to get too far into it, because its useless. But righteousness is so called something that is done in and with respect to god/higher authority and etc. etc. It's a term that people like to throw around and unknowingly misuse a lot, personally i don't like to ever use it. As opposed to revenge which in comparison to righteousness is basically a sin rooted in negativity which should not be sought out, thus they are oxymorons. Either way Luffy will go for a form of revenge, just not the obsessive kind that consumes someone. Don't worry, there will be no Sasuke in Luffy. Oda knows how to give Luffy strong emotions without Luffy permanently changing him.

brownbt
May 12, 2010, 09:14 PM
Just because Luffy may end up possessing malice towards Akainu, which i think will happen, that doesn't mean that he will give up on his dreams and become obsessed with revenge. That would be a terrible way to go, and Oda would never do that to his manga. Luffy will still do his thing, and continue his dream of sailing the seas and becoming PK. But when it comes to Akainu, Luffy will go at him filled with anger and hatred that will come from his very core. Luffy won't look at Akainu as he did with any of his other opponents nor will he give him the same treatment when they do meet in battle. Which is what Ode is setting up here, he is making sure that everyone knows just how much this will affect Luffy, especially in respect to Akainu.

Also righteousness is a term deeply rooted in religion and theology, and i don't want to get too far into it, because its useless. But righteousness is so called something that is done in and with respect to god/higher authority and etc. etc. It's a term that people like to throw around and unknowingly misuse a lot, personally i don't like to ever use it. As opposed to revenge which in comparison to righteousness is basically a sin rooted in negativity which should not be sought out, thus they are oxymorons. Either way Luffy will go for a form of revenge, just not the obsessive kind that consumes someone. Don't worry, there will be no Sasuke in Luffy. Oda knows how to give Luffy strong emotions without Luffy permanently changing him.

I am not religious in the least, my friend. So don't worry about upsetting me.
Religion aside, I think that you can define an act as righteous if it sets things "right" with respect to your own moral compass. It just so happens that many people, regardless of ethnicity or creed, have a common set of morals. I think that this is what makes Luffy such an appealing protagonist. His actions are definitely what I'd call righteous.
I edited my post above to say that I misspoke when I referred to Luffy's acts throughout the series as "revenge". Instead, I think it is better to call them "retribution". He is giving wrongdoers their comeuppance, but he rarely (if ever) takes more from them than what is necessary. I feel like this is why he hasn't created very many arch nemeses. In a way, maybe the people he attacks realize to some degree the error in their ways.
What makes me worry is when I think about how he will do this for Akainu. How else can he repay for a life that he has taken but to have his own life taken? I hope that it doesn't come to this, because it doesn't seem righteous to me. Instead, Luffy should just trample on what Akainu holds most dear, as Akainu did to him.

zerocooldx
May 12, 2010, 09:25 PM
I am not religious in the least, my friend. So don't worry about upsetting me.
Religion aside, I think that you can define an act as righteous if it sets things "right" with respect to your own moral compass. It just so happens that many people, regardless of ethnicity or creed, have a common set of morals. I think that this is what makes Luffy such an appealing protagonist. His actions are definitely what I'd call righteous.
I edited my post above to say that I misspoke when I referred to Luffy's acts throughout the series as "revenge". Instead, I think it is better to call them "retribution". He is giving wrongdoers their comeuppance, but he rarely takes more from them than what is necessary. I feel like this is why he hasn't created very many arch nemeses. In a way, maybe the people he attacks realize to some degree the error in their ways.
What makes me worry is when I think about how he will do this for Akainu. How else can he repay for a life that he has taken but to have his own life taken? I hope that it doesn't come to this, because it doesn't seem righteous to me. Instead, Luffy should just trample on what Akainu holds most dear, as Akainu did to him.

I just think that we sill see a whole different side of Luffy, much like when his friends are harmed, that we have never seen before when it concerns Ace. We have all seen the look that Luffy gets when his friends are harmed, and it's a look of "I'll tear you apart". And i think that from here on out when Ace becomes involved, in a negative way, that we will see a different look from Luffy. A look of "I'll tear you apart, and stomp on the remaining pieces". Especially when Luffy and Akainu do meet again. And i think that this side of Luffy will be fueled by just straight up highly intense negative feelings directed at causing serious harm to someone, which is pretty much the spelled out version of malice. But like i said this will only be a side that we see when Ace is involved in a negative way.

ranigurung
May 12, 2010, 10:01 PM
this chapter it not for kid to read ....they way the guy beat luffy really bad.... he is only 7 years old how cud he beat him ..like that all bloody cry for help ...poor luffy i dont like the part is relly dark

brownbt
May 12, 2010, 10:02 PM
I just think that we sill see a whole different side of Luffy, much like when his friends are harmed, that we have never seen before when it concerns Ace. We have all seen the look that Luffy gets when his friends are harmed, and it's a look of "I'll tear you apart". And i think that from here on out when Ace becomes involved, in a negative way, that we will see a different look from Luffy. A look of "I'll tear you apart, and stomp on the remaining pieces". Especially when Luffy and Akainu do meet again. And i think that this side of Luffy will be fueled by just straight up highly intense negative feelings directed at causing serious harm to someone, which is pretty much the spelled out version of malice. But like i said this will only be a side that we see when Ace is involved in a negative way.

We'll see what happens. Personally, I hope he won't give in to these emotions to the point of murder. It just doesn't sit right with me.
I can definitely say that I'm looking forward to seeing Akainu regret the murders that he has committed. Let's not forget that Robin has a bone to pick with him, too!
Thanks for the discussion, I'm done for the night.

ceasar
May 12, 2010, 11:37 PM
I just think that we sill see a whole different side of Luffy, much like when his friends are harmed, that we have never seen before when it concerns Ace. We have all seen the look that Luffy gets when his friends are harmed, and it's a look of "I'll tear you apart". And i think that from here on out when Ace becomes involved, in a negative way, that we will see a different look from Luffy. A look of "I'll tear you apart, and stomp on the remaining pieces". Especially when Luffy and Akainu do meet again. And i think that this side of Luffy will be fueled by just straight up highly intense negative feelings directed at causing serious harm to someone, which is pretty much the spelled out version of malice. But like i said this will only be a side that we see when Ace is involved in a negative way.

This chapter was great seeing luffy getting beaten but still not telling on ace was great. Then him and ace became friends because Luffy said he needed ace. This is totally different than any other relationship I have seen from luffy. He looks up to and admires ace so much he would take a beating just to show he was his friend while ace had did nothing but try to hurt him. Now I believe we have prove that when luffy meets akainu will possibly look to kill him no questions asked.

El-Thor
May 12, 2010, 11:49 PM
So why can't Luffy go back to his village? Did something happen that I (or we) am not aware of or it's something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Zeltrax
May 12, 2010, 11:51 PM
Nice cover page,
crocodile looks so badass there.
Luffy and ace, this is becoming interesting to read.
and Sabo too.
and who says that ace's hat is sabo's?
The hats are dif, come on.

The last page sends a chill down my spine :O
we KNOW something is going to happen to the three of them and the tenryubi or whatever they are spelt.

I'm betting on sabo dying.
and Ace punching a tenryubi's face.

TonyTonyChopper
May 13, 2010, 12:02 AM
yeah, I don't think Ace wearing Sabo's hat, because it seems different, I dont know, but for me its different. by the way IMO if sabo not dead, maybe Sabo will be take as a slave to Tenryuubito. who knows, maybe in future Sabo will be one of the main character in OP

ozy78
May 13, 2010, 12:30 AM
if sabo betrayed ace, why would ace take his hat and wear it for 10 years? I think it's significantly more likely that sabo dies. and I really hope sabo doesn't betray ace... I just don't see it happening based on what we've seen so far. although with the tenryuubito coming, anything's fair game.

i think sabo will betray ace in some way, ace aint wearin his hat in later events as many r sayin (looks similar, not the same) but i reckon the only thing that would make me think oda would kill off sabo is to show ace n luffy bonding in some way. lovin the back story but im dyin 2 c the strawhats reunite!!!

vagabond87
May 13, 2010, 01:20 AM
Bluejam is pretty good candidate for one of Level 6 prisoners that escaped from Impel Down lately..

VashisLeet
May 13, 2010, 01:52 AM
"Ace, Sabo, and Luffy. Soon these three would do nothing all day and night but fight with the beasts of the mountain road and jungles, and town’s punks, the scoundrels of the garbage heap and the bay’s pirates. This bad reputation would soon come to the land and reach the streets."

So sabo trained with them. Now it's even more possible for sabo to have a role in the future...

PS. So this is not just a short flashback but a small arc
PSS. Oda is legend , he made a usually boring flashback interesting(while the flashback's in the rest of the mangas are boring)

explain to me how he made it interesting, cause it was boring as every other flashback. The character is dead, and now he is explaining stuff we already new about said character with a bunch of pointless flashback only characters. Now, with the celestial dragon coming, that could change (Make me wonder why lufy didnt know about them though?).

Honestly, I would rather see the after effect of the 'war', and i use war the same way I use the phrase 'random cluster fuck'. Also, I wonder if the rest of the crew already used the vive card to find eachother, or is there going to be an arc where luffy finds them?

One more note, I would ahve prefered the flashback being before his death. http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/11 would have forshadowed him eating an idiot ball and fight/getting killed despite the huge number of friends that died so he could RUN!!!!!! and they could end the conflict sooner.

hot_chips
May 13, 2010, 02:39 AM
explain to me how he made it interesting, cause it was boring as every other flashback. The character is dead, and now he is explaining stuff we already new about said character with a bunch of pointless flashback only characters. Now, with the celestial dragon coming, that could change (Make me wonder why lufy didnt know about them though?).

Honestly, I would rather see the after effect of the 'war', and i use war the same way I use the phrase 'random cluster fuck'. Also, I wonder if the rest of the crew already used the vive card to find eachother, or is there going to be an arc where luffy finds them?

One more note, I would ahve prefered the flashback being before his death. http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/11 would have forshadowed him eating an idiot ball and fight/getting killed despite the huge number of friends that died so he could RUN!!!!!! and they could end the conflict sooner.

I don't see how you would know who Sabo is or how Luffy meeting Ace went without this flashback since you apparently already know all about Ace.
This certainly is an interesting flashback as Oda is giving us an insight to Luffy's past.

Future chapters in this flashback could probably involve Sabo possibly running away with the money, the Tenryubito visiting Garp or the Tenryubito buying the trash heap for some ulterior motive.

VashisLeet
May 13, 2010, 02:53 AM
I don't see how you would know who Sabo is or how Luffy meeting Ace went without this flashback since you apparently already know all about Ace.
This certainly is an interesting flashback as Oda is giving us an insight to Luffy's past.

Future chapters in this flashback could probably involve Sabo possibly running away with the money, the Tenryubito visiting Garp or the Tenryubito buying the trash heap for some ulterior motive.

Obviously we didn't know the specifics, my point it isn't incorporating enough things from the narrative present and it is coming off as a generic meeting scenario. Hell, the way luffy and ace we acting/ ended up feeling about each other in the flash back was identical to Kanda/Alma from D. Gray man 3 months ago. (and this is worse becuase D. gray man's flash back referenced the main plot/things that matter)

There was nothing clever about this flashback, and that's why I and finding is boring. Asshole + friendly person = friends is not clever and unless he adds more (which is what i was hoping for next week) what we have here is an incredibly generic flashback.

ScratchmenApoo
May 13, 2010, 03:10 AM
Wow, the chapter was really great, and I thought flashbacks were boring.
I almost got teared up when Luffy said that he didn't have anyone but Ace and then the "You want me to live?" really struck me too. I'm glad they all became the best of friends.
However, Ace mentioning "the Sabo incident" leaves me to believe that the group will do something horrible to the Tenryuubito and then they will execute Sabo, meaning Ace and Luffy will only have each other from that day on - their bond grows even stronger.
I mean, when Ace was leaving the island to become a pirate, Sabo was nowhere to be seen. Something must have happened to him.

OQO
May 13, 2010, 03:14 AM
This flashback is becoming less predictable than expected! I actually can't imagine what's gonna happen... Let me explain: from what we know about the -past- present, Ace didn't have regrets (except seeing Luffy become PK), thus he mustn't be in debt with Sabo in anyway. No promises to keep and not kept, no searching to do and not done, and so on. Ace died in "peace". This means that Sabo's role will complete itself in this flashback without leaving consequences or unresolved facts. And his part won't be of a big emotional importance, because Ace didn't spend words nor memories on him, although that little allusion to "the Sabo thing" (expression referring more to a fact regarding the person than the person in itself).
And... from this last chapter, I can't foresee Sabo's future. I started believing that Sabo would die deserving his death, then that he would flee after betraying Ace, and now... I don't know anymore! He seems loyal to Ace and even concerned about his carelessness, so I can't see him betraying Ace anymore, but on the other hand, if he dies sacrificing himself, Ace should have had one more regret.
...
Oda is really a surprising guy!!! But... I hope this flashback becomes more touching: I'm not really affected by it at all. The key point of this flashback should have been Ace and Luffy's relationship but, with the introduction of Sabo, I'm just intrigued by him! He stoles the stage!! But maybe he is the only thing that doesn't make the fb lame but interesting... I'm disappointed but not quite as much as I would be otherwise. (Did I make sense???:p)

Schabrak
May 13, 2010, 03:27 AM
Nice to see such empty hate.

Firstly this flashback is Luffys, not Ace ones, so why should Oda have shown it earlier? He placed is just at the right moment, when Luffy reminiscences how he has become the person he is today. Ignoring the fact,
that Luffy has revealed the lack of parents, both male and female, that he had a time, when he was lonely as Ace in the beginning, as Luffy has never shown such feeling ever
the revelation of how those two have grown their relationship, how Ace had a transition form his old self to his new one and how that has formed both of them.
Sabo seems to move fast, maybe he is using Soru and could have a background we still don't know
Bluejams pirates did imply often that the money was aimed at to be given someone important -> Tenryuubuto -> development of those in the flashback instead of wasting it on the current time
Has someone cleansed the Goa kindom/Grey Terminal? -> Revolutionary Army?; why does everybody from the Windmill Village seems so carefree, even though everything around them seems to be so supressed and dangerous -> when did Luffy get back there or better how do Makino and Co know him so well, if he only was there till he was 7?

We finally get a background story for the main character and somebody has to start hating again. If you know so much better, start sending Oda letters how to improve his plot, that he shouldn't copy other peoples ideas? We didn't see the crew for years, does somebody have to talk about them every damn week ? You can wish to see them in the next chapter, but that's not what you aimed for, it's pure loathing.

And how has it become generetic? Oda somehow had to show us how they formed a kinship, while also developing Luffys characteristics. There is just so much freedom to create a plot around it and it's no marvel that pirates were part of it. Would some brainless training with Dadan be so much better?

watanazn
May 13, 2010, 04:08 AM
I feel like Sabo's gunna daiii

The goggle on his hat is similar to what Ace had
...that's gunna suck

BlackHair
May 13, 2010, 04:47 AM
It's always annoying to read that ppl can't accept bad comments. Everyone has his/her right to share his opinion about the chapter, be it good or bad.

I like the development with the Tenro and thus looking forward to the next chapter. But everything around Luffy in this chapter was predictable for me. I guess starting next week I will have fun again with One Piece.

jojoSB
May 13, 2010, 05:19 AM
this chapter it not for kid to read ....they way the guy beat luffy really bad.... he is only 7 years old how cud he beat him ..like that all bloody cry for help ...poor luffy i dont like the part is relly dark

I believe it depend on 2 factors- a) it's typical shounen -jp production;
and b) luffy's hard to beat! -DF rubber!

But yeah, those spike punches....

Lyn685
May 13, 2010, 05:32 AM
Sabo is really impressive.
Not only is he strong, but hes also really fast.
I can´t believe that he will die, because Ace and Luffy don´t really make the impression of being affected by an horrible event like his death.

BlackHair
May 13, 2010, 05:40 AM
Sabo is most likely only a recently invented character. I don't think Oda planned him from the very start. That may explain, if Sabo rly dies, why he was never mentioned before. Also it's not like we hear from the SHs repeatedly mentioning names of their lost character (friend/family).

Im still with the idea that Sabo will die.

OQO
May 13, 2010, 05:55 AM
I can´t believe that he died,

I think he referred to this... you seem quite sure he died! When, actually, we don't even know if he's going to (poor Sabo, he is still alive!!)! I'm sure you didn't mind it as a fact, but someone can misunderstand. ;)

OunknownO
May 13, 2010, 05:57 AM
@Schabrak

How can sabo use soru, he is 10 and luffy said that he saw soru for the firt time by watching blueno preforming it

Akainu
May 13, 2010, 05:58 AM
If Sabo really dies it would be a huge waste to have him introduced imo, even from the point of view that it's Luffys flashback that gives us an idea of why he can overcome the loss of Ace.
It could be that Oda just invented Sabo even though he usually has characters and all planned very early, so I wouldn't rule out Oda thinking about a trio fighting together like they did, even if he didn't design Sabo until lately.

However I think we can all agree on the fact that something has to happen to Sabo, otherwise Luffy would have said something like "that's Ace, he's one of my brothers" or similar - just something that would have hinted at him playing a role in the seven to ten years that passed until Ace and then Luffy left the kingdom (quite interesting side information actually ^^ ).

No matter what happens to this guy though, it should be something that makes/made Ace want to live. It would also be pretty generic if Ace wanted to live to carry on the dream he and Sabo had and now Luffy can live on to carry on Aces dream/will whatever. That just doesn't sem right to me.

Lyn685
May 13, 2010, 05:58 AM
I think he referred to this... you seem quite sure he died! When, actually, we don't even know if he's going to! But I'm sure you didn't mind it as a fact ;)
Oh sorry, I wanted to write "I cant believe that he will die"
My mistake, I corrected it anyway.

Schabrak
May 13, 2010, 06:57 AM
@Schabrak
How can sabo use soru, he is 10 and luffy said that he saw soru for the first time by watching Blueno preforming it.
Rob Lucci learned it early too, so age shouldn't be a factor in this. And what has Luffy seeing/mentioning it first in/after the Blueno to do with it? Nearly nothing. We don't know if Luffy paid real attention to his movement, being grabbed by his throat nor did he try to catch some moves, trying to learn something new at the moment. Life is hard in the Gray Terminal and you have to be as strong as possible to survive.

P.S.: I wrote might not did, it was just a assumption of a probability.^^ It could also be another form of fast movement.

OunknownO
May 13, 2010, 07:54 AM
Rob Lucci learned it early too, so age shouldn't be a factor in this. And what has Luffy seeing/mentioning it first in/after the Blueno to do with it? Nearly nothing. We don't know if Luffy paid real attention to his movement, being grabbed by his throat nor did he try to catch some moves, trying to learn something new at the moment. Life is hard in the Gray Terminal and you have to be as strong as possible to survive.

P.S.: I wrote might not did, it was just a assumption of a probability.^^ It could also be another form of fast movement.

http://img-a.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000388/07.jpg
http://img-a.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000388/09.jpg

We would learned soru from sabo if he knew it

Yans86
May 13, 2010, 07:54 AM
What if Sabo will become a slave of the tenryuubito or something along this line...adopted/abducted/killed by them???

I can picture something like this:
1)Ace wanted to save him but attacking the higher tenryuubito wasn't easy for a pirate even if it was WB commander(due to political issue and a possible war)
2)Ace had the reason to meet/save him so he wanted to live....Luffy will carry his will
3)Luffy will fight the tenryubito and Sabo "the traitor" is with them...

frontaLobotomy
May 13, 2010, 07:59 AM
An interesting chapter. Bringing the Tenryuubito in to the mix will be something that should hopefully make the anti-flashback cynics a bit more happy. Sabo's character is becoming more interesting also. I'm still inclined to think he will get killed, but not before he is captured and Ace and Luffy need to try and rescue him.

Yans86
May 13, 2010, 08:14 AM
Quite crazy to hink that:
Ace,Luffy and Garp + eventually Dragon and her wife lived in the Goa kingdom...where:
_there is a tenryubito
_Shanks showed up at the beginning of this arc and stayed there for god knows how long
_Garp can freely enthrust those two to a mountain robbers of said kingdom to make them Top class marines...


Something strange....Ace mother's name was Portgas......the Goa region in India was Portuguese until 60/70 years ago likely(correct me if I am wrong)..

k-dom
May 13, 2010, 08:14 AM
What would be wrong if Sabo dies. It would be no more different than Saul, Hiluluk or Bellemere.
But from what I understand of the chapter end, the tenryubito is coming because he heard about the kid trio. So maybe the Sabo thing that helped Ace desire to live was to free an enslaved Sabo. In such a case that would become Luffy task

panasit
May 13, 2010, 08:19 AM
I think it's already established that Luffy want Ace to live.

The event will lead to Luffy thinking that Ace was dead, and then Ace is still alive and hit him the head for saying otherwise. I think they would be more sad if Sabo died. I think Sabo became an enemy and betray them. Hopefully he will become an anti-hero we meet in the future or something.

So far, Luffy seem to not have any opinion about Sabo from what we know of him in the present time. But he must have one since the three spent time together that much.

I think Oda make us want to guess Sabo will die, but I think he has bigger plan than that. All flashback, other than Brook's (which is the only flashback of One Piece I did not like), lead to an upcoming event in the future. I hope this will too.

It's also interesting that Luffy didn't mention he has seen the Sky Dragon Clan members before during sabaody archipelago arc. I guess we can all assume Luffy didn't know who they were, but even then,if he did meet with them before and not recognized them at sabaody archipelago, it will be a pretty annoying semi-loophole.

chess4
May 13, 2010, 08:20 AM
i think its obvious sabo dies. i think he is the reason ace became a pirate 2 live on for the both of them. as much as i am ready to get back to the present storyline, i must admit this was a good chapter.

it gives us a glimps on why luffy will go to the end of the earth for his friends. he doesnt like being alone. i would be shocked if sabo is still alive, but i dont see it.

Saira
May 13, 2010, 09:20 AM
Yeah!! I like this part with Sabo and Dandan!
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/17

I want him to live, cause i like his character, although we don't know much about him...but i'm looking forward to see what happens to him!!

i think he can really be ensalved by the Tenryubito and live/be in Marijoa...we see it next or the next but one week!!

Hey Oda! Nice Chapter, really!! ^-^

hy4k
May 13, 2010, 09:21 AM
i think that at the very least something significant will happen to sabo that will mean that he's no longer part of luffy and ace's lives

maybe he'll die, maybe he'll be kidnapped/enslaved, maybe he'll betray them. but in the end something has to happen because

1. he's no longer part of luffy and ace's lives
2. ace came to rely on luffy and look upon him as a brother

topkomputer
May 13, 2010, 09:49 AM
If Sabo really dies it would be a huge waste to have him introduced imo, even from the point of view that it's Luffys flashback that gives us an idea of why he can overcome the loss of Ace.
It could be that Oda just invented Sabo even though he usually has characters and all planned very early, so I wouldn't rule out Oda thinking about a trio fighting together like they did, even if he didn't design Sabo until lately.

Luffy and Ace never mentioned about Sabo, not until Ace near death experience. So we can only guess that he has already gone or forgotten. Besides every "past" arc that Oda created always ended with losing someone or something precious like Nami, usopp, Robin losing their mother, Norland Mombran lose his head, Franky and Chopper lose their teacher, Shanks lose his arm, Sanji lose his teacher leg, etc.

Schabrak
May 13, 2010, 10:41 AM
What a waste of space with 90% people posting the exact same: "he will die" sentence. Posting the most obvious outcome isn't much of a discussion. :/ A little bit of criticism can't hurt.

When would have been the right moment to mention Sabo in the past confrontations? Those brief couple of panels where we were happy to gain some info on Ace? There was just no place and need to mention him. It would only heave lead to confusion The Tenryuubuto were fare from introduced, Ace was still a guy we knew nearly nothing about. And even just before the war we haven't got more than one or two chapters with Ace at all. In the war he had no reason to mention Sabo too, with his family fighting for him, till he said goodbye.

I would like to seesome constructive arguments besides:"We hadn't heard about him till now."

@OunknownO: And where exactly is the proof you are aiming to?? Oo I see none.

BlackHair
May 13, 2010, 11:45 AM
What a waste of space with 90% people posting the exact same: "he will die" sentence. Posting the most obvious outcome isn't much of a discussion. Not sure if it was intended to be taken seriously, but regardless. What are you expecting? Ppl to force themselves to write a different opinion, just cause a previous member was predicting the same stuff?

About the Tenryo, Luffy clearly didn't know them back on SS. So either Luffy won't meet him in the flashback or he will just meet him without knowing who he is. Either way the Tenryo is gone influence the story of the 3 chibi pseudo pirates.

Sabo will die or he will became a pirate on his own. Getting enslaved or becoming a traitor wouldn't add up with Ace's last words, imo.

omegakai
May 13, 2010, 12:39 PM
I cant see the point in complaining about the flash backs at this point luffy is grieving so it would be kinda stupid for Oda to move on to other characters when the main one is in transition period. perhaps at the end of the flash back will be something that give luffy new reason to find his crew and move on. Also Sabo seem like and interesting character so it would be good to see if he dies or if he might play a role in future arcs

ScratchmenApoo
May 13, 2010, 01:40 PM
Could you guys go and create some other thread where you say that you are hardcore One Piece fans but still find the time to criticize it.
How do you expect the story not to slow down after such a magnificent war ? It's the perfect timing to slowly go back into normal life where Luffy goes to find One Piece with his nakama.

btw. did Ace already have the Mera Mera Fruit when he left the island?
I wonder if we'll find out how he got it.
The Tenryuubito are very rich people and probably bought the Devil Fruit from some place and brought it with them for the visit.
Then, curious Ace will steal it and when he gets caught, he is forced to eat it. Then he panics because he turns into flames and screams "I'm on fire aaarghh".
Well that's my prediction for the next 2 chapters.

Schabrak
May 13, 2010, 01:55 PM
btw. did Ace already have the Mera Mera Fruit when he left the island?
Before someone goes into rage again: No Ace got his fruit after he left Fishia Village/Dadan. That's what Luffy said just before Ace got onto his Ship in the Alabasta Arc.


Not sure if it was intended to be taken seriously, but regardless. What are you expecting?

Sabo will die or he will became a pirate on his own. Getting enslaved or becoming a traitor wouldn't add up with Ace's last words, imo.
What I meant was, that I would like to see arguments and facts backing up those claims, but we got none. Since nobody cared to answer one of the questions raised by me (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1911950&postcount=120), I feel I'm right with my opinion.

The words "sabo thing" do not indicate anything to me. Would you elaborate something to it? If Ace meant it thankfull, it "could" be that Sabo saved him from something, but every other option can happen just as well. Him dying, him being enslaved, him being a traitor. We just got no indication now. From his shown character, I can't see him being a traitor myself, he's best friends with Ace afterall and has nobody else he can relate to.

OQO
May 13, 2010, 01:59 PM
What I meant was, that I would like to see arguments and facts backing up those claims, but we got none. Since nobody cared to answer one of the questions raised by me, I feel I'm right with my opinion.

I did reflect on the subject here (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60398&page=7)... with no conclusion, but still :)

Seems that Ace character -or its better to say his death, as we didn't see more than that- was meant only to develop Luffy's personality. Even through the flashback, I don't think Ace's gonna gain more importance than before (he's dead, there's no reason to). But Sabo maybe will (could be more than alive!!). I'm actually seeing Ace like a mean to introduce another main character, who's Sabo!
What you think?

undertoe
May 13, 2010, 02:23 PM
Not sure if it was intended to be taken seriously, but regardless. What are you expecting? Ppl to force themselves to write a different opinion, just cause a previous member was predicting the same stuff?

About the Tenryo, Luffy clearly didn't know them back on SS. So either Luffy won't meet him in the flashback or he will just meet him without knowing who he is. Either way the Tenryo is gone influence the story of the 3 chibi pseudo pirates.

Sabo will die or he will became a pirate on his own. Getting enslaved or becoming a traitor wouldn't add up with Ace's last words, imo.

What if Ace and Luffy were unaware of Sabo's true fate?

Schabrak
May 13, 2010, 02:48 PM
I'm crying a little bit, having pushed return, while not in advanced post mode. wäh XD

You certainly have meantioned some good points. I don't see much development in Ace too, but he is the means to create a background story for Luffy and part of that is being the elder brother to him. We all know that younger brothers are influenced by their elders, even greater if the age gap isn't to big.

With always somebody dying in the flashbacks, wouldn't it be nice suprise to see Sabo in the New World or be part of a future event at Mary Joa? I just expect something different from Oda this time, as something so forseeable would be quiet boring. Who would have know that Ace would die in the end?[Don't answer to that question please.^^]

Finale
May 13, 2010, 03:55 PM
Well as close as Ace and Sabo are there's no mention of Ace referring to him as his brother. They've known each other for five years. I thinking that the trio, Ace and Sabo or just Sabo try to rob the tenryuobito and Sabo has to go on the lam. I wonder if Dadan and company understand the importance of the tenryuobito? If they dont Dadan and company may have to hightail it out of there and they may take Sabo with them. Luffy and Ace could be off doing something else. It would suck to kill such an interesting character.

I can also understand the posters that want to get on with the main storyline again. The FI arc has been highly anticipated for years, but we should be thankful that Oda does such a good job writing that the arcs before the inevitable FI arc are so enjoyable.

OQO
May 13, 2010, 04:39 PM
I don't see much development in Ace too, but he is the means to create a background story for Luffy and part of that is being the elder brother to him. We all know that younger brothers are influenced by their elders, even greater if the age gap isn't to big.

With always somebody dying in the flashbacks, wouldn't it be nice suprise to see Sabo in the New World or be part of a future event at Mary Joa? I just expect something different from Oda this time, as something so forseeable would be quiet boring. Who would have know that Ace would die in the end?[Don't answer to that question please.^^]

That's quite the point I think: Ace rapresents -it's not important who he is- only a brother figure and his role is to influence, change, Luffy. Nothing else! As each SH had a tragic background driving them, Luffy should have -had- one too. Or else, he would look... empty against the others. Now he will have more than a child dream!

At the time Ace was introduced, and then just disappeared after a few panels, I already thought that his character, not himself, would be very important later on. Actually, I thought that he would reveal particulars about Luffy's parents, not that he would die, but if I look at it now, His death seems almost logical...! And that's the reason I believe that Oda had all in mind from the very start: he wanted to show us Luffy's growth. In some interview he said that the hardest thing for a mangaka is to draw the physical and psychological changes of the characters. He's working on this!
Now, I won't get lost. That's another matter. I'll go back a little...
If Oda would have had other plans for Ace, others than just killing him and only making of him a trigger, I'm sure that in this flashback there wouldn't be Sabo! But there is him! Thus with this flashback we won't just have a tragic background for Luffy (or Ace, 'cause if Sabo dies who else should care?), but a good piece of plot development! Sabo's figure is enough proof for me (the Tenryubito too). Oda won't eliminate Sabo. He will be indispensable for the plot to go on when the flashback is over. Or else, he wouldn't have been introduced! For a crying flashback Ace should have been enough!

So, that's my reasoning. In short, Ace figure has two and only these two roles: affect Luffy and introduce Sabo, who, for this same reason, is not going to die!

maybe... I forgot something.. don't know :oh

chess4
May 13, 2010, 04:47 PM
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/9

thats a great pic. it would have been great to see both of them at age 20 fighting together. im sure ole sabo would be an animal. he seems to care a lot about ace. i just hope we dont find out he isnt going to die in this flashback, which i must sadly say, that it seems more and more like it.
[hr]
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/75222014/9

thats a great pic. it would have been great to see both of them at age 20 fighting together. im sure ole sabo would be an animal. he seems to care a lot about ace. i just hope we dont find out he isnt going to die in this flashback, which i must sadly say, that it seems more and more like it.

Bonfire01
May 13, 2010, 06:23 PM
Well that turned out more interesting than I expected.

First up Ace didn't actually warm to Luffy because he held out for god know how long being tortured but because of the REASON he held out. I was expecting Oda to show Ace feeling important because Luffy took a beating for him but what he did was way more clever than that. He had Luyffy appeal to Ace's greatest insecurity by making him feel needed rather than just having someone doing something for him.

That also eplains a lot better why Ace was quite so desperate to look after Luffy when we all knew (and I's sure he knew) how tough Luffy was/is. In the end I liked it a lot more than what I was expecting.

Also Sabo survived the escape from the blue jam pirates! Adding a Tenryubiti into the mix means we could get something far more interesting for "that Sabo thing" than his death. I think it's pretty much going to have to be death or betrayal now, because I really expect Ace and Luffy's sake sharing, brotherhood bonding experience to take place with Sabo out of the frame. Sabo seems pretty loyal to Ace after charging back into a pirate which he appeared scared of, or at least apprehensive about. So I think death would be a lot easier to write in and make believable.

Since Oda rarely goes for the obvious or simple, perhaps Sabo gets taken as a slave by a Tenryuibiti? The way Oda wrote about word of the 3 children reaching the centre of the kingdom then saying a Tenryubiti arrived afterwards might mean the Tenryu comes looking for them rather than just bumping into them....

I know flashbacks don't progree the plot but i'm enjoying the explanation of how Ace and Luffy came to be brothers. The fact Ace was a "demon" who thought he deserved to die and seemed prickly at best as a child then turned out as a selfless devoted brother with impeccable manors really did need some explanation IMO.

Perhaps a couple more chapters of flashback would do it, but I don't expect Oda to rush through this and if the Tenryubiti is involved with "the Sabo thing" it could get pretty complicated. So I think, to some people's dismay, this could run for 5 or 6 more chapters easily, maybe more.....

gotdott
May 13, 2010, 07:02 PM
I wouldn't mind if it ran for another month. I just wonder how many--if any--easter eggs Oda will stick into this flashback.

SenninSage
May 13, 2010, 07:57 PM
But man, we now have some real details now, besides just who's in his family, as to why Luffy is so damn tough. He was fighting wild animals, thugs, pirates, and all other kinds of scum at such an early age.

He was tortured at age 7, and still he could not be broken.

Ex-Shadow
May 13, 2010, 09:08 PM
Well that turned out more interesting than I expected.

First up Ace didn't actually warm to Luffy because he held out for god know how long being tortured but because of the REASON he held out. I was expecting Oda to show Ace feeling important because Luffy took a beating for him but what he did was way more clever than that. He had Luyffy appeal to Ace's greatest insecurity by making him feel needed rather than just having someone doing something for him.

That also eplains a lot better why Ace was quite so desperate to look after Luffy when we all knew (and I's sure he knew) how tough Luffy was/is. In the end I liked it a lot more than what I was expecting.

Also Sabo survived the escape from the blue jam pirates! Adding a Tenryubiti into the mix means we could get something far more interesting for "that Sabo thing" than his death. I think it's pretty much going to have to be death or betrayal now, because I really expect Ace and Luffy's sake sharing, brotherhood bonding experience to take place with Sabo out of the frame. Sabo seems pretty loyal to Ace after charging back into a pirate which he appeared scared of, or at least apprehensive about. So I think death would be a lot easier to write in and make believable.

Since Oda rarely goes for the obvious or simple, perhaps Sabo gets taken as a slave by a Tenryuibiti? The way Oda wrote about word of the 3 children reaching the centre of the kingdom then saying a Tenryubiti arrived afterwards might mean the Tenryu comes looking for them rather than just bumping into them....

I know flashbacks don't progree the plot but i'm enjoying the explanation of how Ace and Luffy came to be brothers. The fact Ace was a "demon" who thought he deserved to die and seemed prickly at best as a child then turned out as a selfless devoted brother with impeccable manors really did need some explanation IMO.

Perhaps a couple more chapters of flashback would do it, but I don't expect Oda to rush through this and if the Tenryubiti is involved with "the Sabo thing" it could get pretty complicated. So I think, to some people's dismay, this could run for 5 or 6 more chapters easily, maybe more.....
Quite agree for the first half. But in the Shanbody arc, Luffy doesn't even know nor care about Tenryubito (yes Tenryubito, not Tenryubiti). IMO, it doesn't make sense if Sabo get caught or killed by Tenryubito and neither Ace nor Luffy didn't know about that. What kinds of friend they are when they had fought Bluejam Pirates together?! And betrayal, well it's kind of hard to think about it. I mean, Sabo didn't try to join Bluejam Pirates and stick to Ace while he wants to be a pirate.

El-Thor
May 13, 2010, 09:32 PM
This is why Oda is a master. He wants us thinking the obvious. Oh, Sabo will SURELY get killed, oh since Luffy, Ace and Sabo are best buds now they HAVE to see the Tenryubito as well. Although I don't think Sabo will go as far as betraying the others, I DO think that he will either leave with/or be enslaved by the Tenryu, or he will leave to sea with another pirate crew.

It might be too far fetched, but hey that's what predictions are for, Sabo just might take to the sea before Ace (for some unknown reason).

Mr. Crocodile
May 13, 2010, 11:50 PM
Ok i just saw something interesting..i was rereading the part when luffy saw the tenryuubito en sabaondy and noticed this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ in the bottom pannel luffy says "it's them" as if he's seen them before..or recognizes the clothing. Though it might just be that they just stand out from the crowd and he could tell who they were, but anyhow maybe that proves that he indeed encounter one of them as a child.

Katz
May 14, 2010, 12:28 AM
Ok i just saw something interesting..i was rereading the part when luffy saw the tenryuubito en sabaondy and noticed this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ in the bottom pannel luffy says "it's them" as if he's seen them before..or recognizes the clothing. Though it might just be that they just stand out from the crowd and he could tell who they were, but anyhow maybe that proves that he indeed encounter one of them as a child.

Good catch there, that very well could have been a hint at luffy's past, he recognizes either their name or their attire, hell he might even know that particular group of "nobles" personally

ish3
May 14, 2010, 12:34 AM
Ok i just saw something interesting..i was rereading the part when luffy saw the tenryuubito en sabaondy and noticed this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ in the bottom pannel luffy says "it's them" as if he's seen them before..or recognizes the clothing. Though it might just be that they just stand out from the crowd and he could tell who they were, but anyhow maybe that proves that he indeed encounter one of them as a child.

Damn. Hahaha. See you guys are the real fans. Like catching the sabo thing and this too. Wow. You really notice a lot when re-reading. Although it may not have much significance but due to this flashback I believe that it really isn't the case.

El-Thor
May 14, 2010, 12:57 AM
Ok i just saw something interesting..i was rereading the part when luffy saw the tenryuubito en sabaondy and noticed this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ in the bottom pannel luffy says "it's them" as if he's seen them before..or recognizes the clothing. Though it might just be that they just stand out from the crowd and he could tell who they were, but anyhow maybe that proves that he indeed encounter one of them as a child.

Nice catch there. It really does seem like he is referring to the Tenryubito like the recognized them. But I doubt he knows this exact pair, after all, he couldn't even remember Coby :p

SenninSage
May 14, 2010, 01:12 AM
Ok i just saw something interesting..i was rereading the part when luffy saw the tenryuubito en sabaondy and noticed this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ in the bottom pannel luffy says "it's them" as if he's seen them before..or recognizes the clothing. Though it might just be that they just stand out from the crowd and he could tell who they were, but anyhow maybe that proves that he indeed encounter one of them as a child.

Fantastic catch, Luffy may have actually seen them before as a child.

OPWillOfTheD
May 14, 2010, 04:44 AM
Ok i just saw something interesting..i was rereading the part when luffy saw the tenryuubito en sabaondy and noticed this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ in the bottom pannel luffy says "it's them" as if he's seen them before..or recognizes the clothing. Though it might just be that they just stand out from the crowd and he could tell who they were, but anyhow maybe that proves that he indeed encounter one of them as a child.
Great find. It really does seem like hes seen them somewhere before but it seems like he doesnt completely understand/or remember what they are.

jojoSB
May 14, 2010, 05:54 AM
No, no, no,... no - Luffy's saying :
Is it him? Is that a tenryu/ celestial dragon??
Is it her? Is that dog it..?
OH (finally..), (I finally seen it!!!...)It's them!!!....!!

You can't just cutting out panel now and then, like regarding those
from Ace's last words parts, and instilling the "..what if this belongs here.."
kinda speculation on them..!?

Plz!, for Oda's sake!

Romanov D Paul
May 14, 2010, 06:23 AM
About this thing, I went back to re-read it too to find some hints, but actually Luffy's recognize the dog as a Tenryubito because Hatchan said him that those guys used to wear masks "to not breath the same air as commoners" or the like a little short before, so this doesn' really help. Though, it's arguable that the Tenryubito outside Sabaody can't wear their masks, cause the bubble won't resist outside the mangroove atmosphere right? Therefore, even if Luffy actually saw a world noble when he was 7 or the like, probably he wasn't able to recognize the guys on Sabaody cause the one he saw didn't had the bubble around his head, but instead another kind of mask, and maybe different clothes as well, so nothing really is cleared so far. Even if I see kind of likely that this visit is gonna be important for Sabo's destiny, like it's easy to understand, but I can't decide if it's more likely for him to be enslaved or rather forced to leave beforehead due to some accident or lastly killed, but at least probably there are no other possible situation.

anaskr
May 14, 2010, 07:04 AM
Luffy Will NEVER REMEMBER PEOPLE WHO HAVN DONE TOO MUCH OF DAMAGE TO HIM OR HIS NAKAMAS OR ANYONE WHO HE LIKES!!


For eg. when garp met luffy, he recognized coby sooner or later but he cudn recognize the Helmeppo

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/14/

zoro kinda recognized but luffy still didn MAYBE!!

Luffy Dosn remember such things i suppose!! there maybe other incidents too

gr2
May 14, 2010, 07:13 AM
Luffy Will NEVER REMEMBER PEOPLE WHO HAVN DONE TOO MUCH OF DAMAGE TO HIM OR HIS NAKAMAS OR ANYONE WHO HE LIKES!!


For eg. when garp met luffy, he recognized coby sooner or later but he cudn recognize the Helmeppo

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/14/

zoro kinda recognized but luffy still didn MAYBE!!

Luffy Dosn remember such things i suppose!! there maybe other incidents too

Are you reading OP ?. Luffy is too dumb....he remembers the face of persons he met. for example he remember buggy's face but didn't remember his name..... and also he remembers alvida's name but not her face or anything(Because she had changed a lot....)
p.s. all this happened at logue toww(before going to grandline).

and same thing happened to Helempo and cobby. he did remember cobby's name but he wasn't able to recognize his face because lot of physical growth.
Its safe to assume that luffy remembers things.....(not all but atleast a good number of people).

OnePiece_Michi
May 14, 2010, 08:41 AM
Luffy Will NEVER REMEMBER PEOPLE WHO HAVN DONE TOO MUCH OF DAMAGE TO HIM OR HIS NAKAMAS OR ANYONE WHO HE LIKES!!


For eg. when garp met luffy, he recognized coby sooner or later but he cudn recognize the Helmeppo

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/14/

zoro kinda recognized but luffy still didn MAYBE!!

Luffy Dosn remember such things i suppose!! there maybe other incidents too

oh come on... i guess its meant to be funny(a kind of oda joke maybe?) , and ... its helmeppo..
i would also not remember him if i were luffy (:

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 14, 2010, 09:14 AM
1. Ace saying "once i face an enemy i never run". it foreshadows his death. he took on akainu because he doesn't "run"


i think of it more like oda trying to cover up the twist in ace's character just before his death .
[hr]

Ok i just saw something interesting..i was rereading the part when luffy saw the tenryuubito en sabaondy and noticed this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ in the bottom pannel luffy says "it's them" as if he's seen them before..or recognizes the clothing. Though it might just be that they just stand out from the crowd and he could tell who they were, but anyhow maybe that proves that he indeed encounter one of them as a child.

nice checking that out , i always thought they dug their grave with luffy .

deffkryz
May 14, 2010, 09:24 AM
First, about the chapter: Yet another chapter to build up the flashback. So far we have Bluejam, Luffy, Dadan, Ace and Sabo as main players, and now a Tenryuubito is being mentioned. Plus... Besides Fusha, the mountain, forest and Gray Terminal there's even a kingdom on the island...

I guess next chapter will still be a chapter to build up the story of the flashback. We may learn why Bluejam was after the money. I'm a bit curious why he wasn't introduced like Polchemy with this character panel... He seems more important to me than Polchemy who lasted ... not even one chapter. :blink

Well, I guess, I just have to sit, wait and hope for the best.


Luffy Will NEVER REMEMBER PEOPLE WHO HAVN DONE TOO MUCH OF DAMAGE TO HIM OR HIS NAKAMAS OR ANYONE WHO HE LIKES!!

You're wrong: "Wani", "San", "Bon-chan", Moria and even "Blackbeard" (he just never knew his name), and Laboon (when Franky talked about Brooks past).

He remembers (almost) everyone he ever met. Coby is quite a very bad example for your theory since his appearance changed the most from all characters in One Piece so far. Even Luffy and Ace look like as when they were kids - but Coby is like a different person. And that Helmeppo situation... comic relief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_relief) - it would have been quite ugly if they could have remembered him who is Coby's sidekick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidekick) but not Coby.

Razh
May 14, 2010, 11:43 AM
About this thing, I went back to re-read it too to find some hints, but actually Luffy's recognize the dog as a Tenryubito because Hatchan said him that those guys used to wear masks "to not breath the same air as commoners" or the like a little short before, so this doesn' really help.

I think it's not about the dog. The dog came forward. I think Luffy referred to those two that appeared right in the panel after Luffy says:"It's them...".
There's even those lines that signify sudden realization.

Also, try to think of it this way. We have Luffy flashback and it seems that some Tenryuubito is going to appear there. Obviously, it's going to have at least something to do with the plot, otherwise a Tenryuu coming to Goa kingdom is completely unnecessary. Yea, there is a chance, but I don't buy that.

johnnyb7
May 14, 2010, 12:24 PM
ok so it seems like the chapters are coming out at very strange times, this chapter wasn't supposed to come out until this monday? so with all this chaos i'm not sure when the next chapters are going to come out, does anyone have a good guess as to when the next chapter is going to come out?

But in the main storyline, the first time Luffy saw a tenrybiuto he beat the shit out of him, maybe this was not only for hacchan? My guess is that the world nobles are going to end up killing Sabo, and Ace is somehow going to get the devil fruit. My guess is this'll be another 3 or 4 chapters. Pretty sweet

Razh
May 14, 2010, 12:42 PM
All I'm saying is that, based on that translation and how Luffy was drawn, it's possible that he recognized the appearance of Tenryuubito from before.

Yeah, he didn't say anything, but that doesn't mean much. I mean, he never said anything when he "recognized" the sign on the back of one of Boa sisters. Well, not until they asked him directly later.

Gats
May 14, 2010, 01:27 PM
All I'm saying is that, based on that translation and how Luffy was drawn, it's possible that he recognized the appearance of Tenryuubito from before.

Yeah, he didn't say anything, but that doesn't mean much. I mean, he never said anything when he "recognized" the sign on the back of one of Boa sisters. Well, not until they asked him directly later.

Hacchi told Luffy that the Tenryuubito are right behind the dog. Even for an idiot like him he would understand who they are.

Razh
May 14, 2010, 01:34 PM
Hacchi told Luffy that the Tenryuubito are right behind the dog. Even for an idiot like him he would understand who they are.

I don't know how that removes the possibility of Luffy recognizing them as similar to something he has seen as a child. Yeah, maybe we're reading too much into it, but it's hard to neglect a detail like that one when we have a flashback of Luffy's childhood with a pending appearance of one of Tenryuubito.

Mr. Crocodile
May 14, 2010, 01:45 PM
Nice to see my little post managed to stir up some discussion lol. Ya maybe I'm just reading too much into it too but with Oda you never know.

zerocooldx
May 14, 2010, 02:33 PM
i think of it more like oda trying to cover up the twist in ace's character just before his death.

No...because if you think back when Ace fought Jinbei their battle lasted for 5 days before it was broken up. Which is only supported by the fact that Ace does not retreat from a battle once he starts it. This is Oda we are talking out, the guy doesn't cover up anything because as far as i know he doesn't make story line mistakes.

deffkryz
May 14, 2010, 05:00 PM
No...because if you think back when Ace fought Jinbei their battle lasted for 5 days before it was broken up. Which is only supported by the fact that Ace does not retreat from a battle once he starts it.

And don't forget his encounter with Whitebeard - after he had a big fight. he used his DF powers to protect his nakama and then went 1-on-1 on WB.


This is Oda we are talking out, the guy doesn't cover up anything because as far as i know he doesn't make story line mistakes.

Exactly, you can even look upon this scenes were Garp slaps Luffy with the wrong hand as altered memory. The first time it was Ace who remembered this scene, the second time Luffy. ;)

@Mr. Crocodile: Yeah, a very nice catch... But, we may not forget: He just heared about them from Hatchan. But true - it's odd, that Luffy said this on the last panel of the page, and on the following page, Oda reveals Rosward and Charlia... I actually wouldn't wonder if the Tenryuubito(s) shown in the next chapter(s) would be both of them again - and Charlia actually being cute and kind.

monkey D luffy
May 15, 2010, 04:02 AM
ok so it seems like the chapters are coming out at very strange times, this chapter wasn't supposed to come out until this monday? so with all this chaos i'm not sure when the next chapters are going to come out, does anyone have a good guess as to when the next chapter is going to come out?


we usually get chapters a few days before they are published in japan. they are usually published on jump on mondays. dont get confused you will still get a chapter between wednesday and saturday each week.

Arkadi
May 15, 2010, 05:52 AM
sabo probably was captured

Katz
May 15, 2010, 06:00 AM
sabo probably was captured

Captured and killed maybe....unless Oda didn't wanna spoil us to luffy's past by never mentioning Sabo at all, but in all likely hood Sabo died, I mean the only tip that we notice now is that Ace dresses similar to him or maybe in honor of his memory, we'll see soon enough

Zeltrax
May 15, 2010, 09:15 AM
I'm actually predicting Sabo joining or becoming part of the celestial dragons.
It may be weird, but knowing One piece, its unpredictable.
So I'm actually saying that Sabo may have links to celestial dragons
and their arrival is to find their long lost son or something.
Or an event that'll make Sabo a celestial dragon.
and once he's a celestial dragon, it'll means that he'll abandon / look down on luffy and ace.
Or even betraying them.
That's my prediction anyway.

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 15, 2010, 03:23 PM
No...because if you think back when Ace fought Jinbei their battle lasted for 5 days before it was broken up. Which is only supported by the fact that Ace does not retreat from a battle once he starts it. This is Oda we are talking out, the guy doesn't cover up anything because as far as i know he doesn't make story line mistakes.

oh , i guess that escaped me , anyways im convinced , but its still an explanation , i mean he tried to explain why he is so pushy .

Fox666
May 15, 2010, 04:49 PM
I was looking at Shabondy arc, I just noticed that Luffy does not noticed the Tenryuubito until they shot Hachi. Luffy just keep coming after Camie.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/502/012/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/502/015/

Luffy can very well have meet the Tenryuubito before.

BlindMunkey
May 15, 2010, 06:38 PM
Just because Tenryuubito is mentioned in this flashback doesnt automaticaly means that luffy met them. so im going with the fact [assuming the fact] that luffy doesnt come face to face with Tenryuubitos but just heard about them. so this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/ could just be simply luffy recalling that he heard about them about 10years ago.

@fox666 .. is ur display pic from blazer drive manga? sry off topic.

Fox666
May 15, 2010, 07:01 PM
Oh yeah, I forget they meet the Tenryuubito on the street! :darn Forget what I said in last post

Offtopic: that's Cheetu from Hunter x Hunter

ScorpionGR
May 16, 2010, 02:05 AM
so luffy kicking Tenryuubito face with very much wrath has two reason after all the first is about hachi and the second we gonna see it now... it will be funny if sabo after turns to be one of the Tenryuubito if he isn't killed or something like that .. I think blue jam is a dog of Tenryuubito and the money also belongs to them ... anyway dadan to me is seems she doesn't realise who are the Tenryuubito


i bet to dadan for selling sabo to the Tenryuubito for the reason luffy and ace becomes very closer to each other and brothers after all protecting the little brother...

Razh
May 16, 2010, 03:24 AM
i bet to dadan for selling sabo to the Tenryuubito for the reason luffy and ace becomes very closer to each other and brothers after all protecting the little brother...

Yeah, that's probably why they continued living with her instead of killing her ass.

BlackHair
May 16, 2010, 03:36 AM
I stick with my idea that Luffy won't see them. The Tenryo will influence those three in some bad way, but Luffy won't find out who it was. Neither names or how they look. I can easily imagine: right before Luffy is about to meet a Tenryo, he will be knocked unconscious, so he will just see their shadows if not their figures at most. One of many possibilities.

Coz if Luffy's sees them or even just find out their existence, it will wrack up with later events in SS. Luffy didn't react in any big way back on SS, so for me is "Tenryo?" the best answer. Everything else, no matter what Oda might pull out will just look cheap or that Oda didn't planed ahead. Just my opinion.

ScorpionGR
May 16, 2010, 04:26 AM
Yeah, that's probably why they continued living with her instead of killing her ass.

heheh wooo i didn't think about it earlier .. but im still saying that dadan maybe did it in a secret way for luffy and ace to not know about it and after aces learns about sabo was kidnapped (killed is the right word) he get closer to luffy and promises that anybody touch him because he already lost saboo and becomes brother of luffy ... because of the sabo thing

BlackHair
May 16, 2010, 04:36 AM
... because of the sabo thing"because of the sabo thing" is hardly a argument. Since it can be related to every idea, even with UFOs. I don't think Dadan is a bad person in her core, I mean she was mentioned in Ace's last words. If she did something with Sabo in secret, then she didn't had to put a act to get acknowledged by Ace and Luffy.

panasit
May 16, 2010, 04:43 AM
I think Sabo thing is like a promise to see each other again.

ScorpionGR
May 16, 2010, 05:09 AM
"because of the sabo thing" is hardly a argument. Since it can be related to every idea, even UfOs theories. I don't think Dadan is a bad person in her core, I mean she was mentioned in Ace's last words. If she did something with Sabo in secret, then she didn't had to put a act to get acknowledged by Ace and Luffy.

okay .. but im talking about the facts that are shown to us until now ... ace said because of the sabo thing we are together .. brothers that gives me the idea of it but anyway dadan is a mountain bandit
Higuma was also a bandit too that's why luffy hate bandit .. Dadan get only acknowledged by ace beacuase she was like a foster mother to him .. and also when luffy came to the dadan she said wtf who is this punk here that's cleary she doesn't like luffy to stay there also when luffy was missed for one week she didn't care about him .. that proves the real dadan until now .... but it's too early for conclusion up to now ... and in the end sabo also comes to dadan house Two punks she doesn't have any reason to keep him ...

BlackHair
May 16, 2010, 05:50 AM
I think Sabo thing is like a promise to see each other again.There has to be more than that. Ace set 3 years before Luffy to sea. He must have met all kind of persons :P


when luffy came to the dadan she said wtf who is this punk here that's cleary she doesn't like luffy to stay there also when luffy was missed for one week she didn't care about him .. that proves the real dadan until now .... but it's too early for conclusion up to now ... and in the end sabo also comes to dadan house Two punks she doesn't have any reason to keep him ...I do get ur point. But Ace still kinda thanked her as he was dying. So I still believe Dadan is a nice person in her core, just a bitch on the outside. I mean Garp left two of his grandsons with her, I know he is a dumb wild card, still I don't think he would bring Ace and Luffy to a person who is evil in her core.

I think Sabo died coz of the Tenryo. As soon as Luffy finds that out in the current time line, he will have one more reason to attack the WG after finding One Piece. Basically the war which WB predicted to happen as he died. SHs + Dragon + any friends of SHs vs the WG.

llamapie
May 16, 2010, 09:41 AM
Ok Sabo is going to die or is incapable of being anywhere. Think about it. He was such a good friend of Ace's, there is no way he wouldn't have shown up to try and help save him. So he is going to die at some point here.

I like the idea of the tenrybuuto being in charge of blue jam and whoever it is taking charge of the situation and Ace's attitude about never running gets Sabo killed.

Manta33
May 16, 2010, 10:36 AM
I don't think the never running away thing got debunked for Ace. He didn't run from Jimbei, he didn't run from Blackbeard. So whatever happens to Sabo didn't change his outlook. I think its more of a hey look Ace was stubborn from the start kinda thing... i love how the mystery of Sabo has made this interesting for everyone. Kudos to Oda

ScorpionGR
May 16, 2010, 11:08 AM
I think Sabo died coz of the Tenryo. As soon as Luffy finds that out in the current time line, he will have one more reason to attack the WG after finding One Piece. Basically the war which WB predicted to happen as he died. SHs + Dragon + any friends of SHs vs the WG.

im also thinking the possibility when luffy gonna meet again with dadan to say hi from ace to her .. there dadan gonna explain all things about what happened to saboo so we gonna have another flashback lol and i don't know why but the Tenryo are behind of all this ... oda starting to collect all the reasons for luffy to attack WG

Ashura_Ichibugin
May 16, 2010, 12:25 PM
so luffy kicking Tenryuubito face with very much wrath has two reason after all the first is about hachi and the second we gonna see it now...

We still do not know it, it is just a guess, a theory. "I think", "I guess", "maybe" are the proper words to use instead of "so, this is it". Nobody has enough evidence to be sure about it. Rushing to draw conclusions never ends good.

jojoSB
May 16, 2010, 01:42 PM
Waha!

Sabo, tenryu, their purpose!?

I found (finally, after some digging) a clue:

Before:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/583/04/

After:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/573/04/

Oh my, just in time before the next discussion..

goldb
May 16, 2010, 02:04 PM
And how do the 2 images relate to Sabo and the Tenryuubito???

neovenom
May 16, 2010, 02:30 PM
The only thing from the images that I can think of that you are trying to imply is ace's tattoo on his arm. Are you maybe implying that the crossed out 's' in ace's tattoo signifies something about sabo, like some sort of betrayal or death? If not elaborate plz

Akainu
May 16, 2010, 02:53 PM
The only thing from the images that I can think of that you are trying to imply is ace's tattoo on his arm. Are you maybe implying that the crossed out 's' in ace's tattoo signifies something about sabo, like some sort of betrayal or death? If not elaborate plz
the tat having a hidden meaning like that would actually be damn funny since it's one of the few things almost everyone would regard as something unimportant, that just happend as it did :darn
Oh well, wishfull thinking here :amuse

jojoSB
May 16, 2010, 03:43 PM
Well, it is 'bout the tattoo!

Storywise, of course, and if any one of you expect a substantial proof you might be
disappointed.

I remember way back when ch.573 comes out (looking at my post now, it's
certainly eerie that both chap.s end with 3 and both on pg.4 !) that the tattoo's
so strikely made shown, I thought that there's Oda's hidden message right there.

It's not like the tattoo really tells you any real secret like a map or something,
but the way it appears...:

- if memory serving correctly.., that's the only frame in the entire war, that
the tattoo's been shown! Wait.., you say? This must not be it??
So I just dug up ch.157 ......

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/157/15/

I don't even notice the tattoo exist way back!

- The tattoo's been shown way back, now again but only in 1 chapter..,
you don't notice it because back in Impel down you're not aware of it due to
the way Ace's being tied/ chained up..
Not sure if it's shown while Ace's being led to the execut. platform though.

- the way's written: 1st glance, it's written down as SEE, then put on a cross
to '"re-write" it as ACE, correct?

- Well, 573 is actually not clear because -might be due to the scan, or due
to some purposeful shading... but look at ch.157..
it's A X\S C E, C with a dot in the middle..!?
It's not even written as S E E from the beginning.

The point is, it's deliberately designed.
I'm ready to be humiliated publicly if it ends up not be explained.
But then you know that's Oda right?
Even the word SEE is based on my imagination, the tattoo is actually written
as S . E , no?
If it's S C E, and someone, maybe Sabo, or Dadan & co. that pinned this tattoo
for Ace, a typo is still SCE, and not S C . E, isn't it?! Where's this " . " comes
from?

In fact, at ch.157 ( I notice the tatto only starting at 573 due to the 'only 1 panel
during the whole war' point), that the C . is not trying to disguish itself as an "E."
It's still C . , that only looks like S E E from afar, but upon inspection it's
A XS Cwith a . E

Explain???

I presume, that in chrono. sequence as of how this tattoo's corrected, is as follows:
X .
A X C . E
A SX C . E

To tell you the truth, I expect Oda is to at least partially explain this.., tattoo
before Ace set sail (!?) explains childhood promises - the Sabo thing,
ACE implies Ace, but when you think about it, you don't need to tattoo your
own name onto yourself, do you? You likely gonna tattoo your love ones, isn't it?
SCE is obviously a SEE look-a-like, something to look at, wealth, power, greed,
the celestial dragon- related -kind-of -a-promise..? But for this, only us, at least
myself, sees SCE as SEE, because of that 'dot' right there; so, why's the dot?
Why did Ace need to tattoo a dot on his shoulder?

*Remember when Ace's shown leaving the windmill, he's wearing a shirt, as is
when he's visiting Red Hair, etc.

*Lastly, I haven't checked all the past chapters. : )

Razh
May 16, 2010, 04:30 PM
And here I thought that Ace went to get a tattoo at some guy who thought it was spelled "As", then Ace saw that and made him correct it.

What a fool I've been...

jojoSB
May 16, 2010, 05:30 PM
Razh, you're not wrong, I actually went back and reread
even more chapters to see your point..

I think it might be natural to cross out a letter and continue
to write down the correct one after the cross-out;
but that might be the case with hand-writing - and since
I assume most of us don't do tattoo, tattooing might not
work like that ...

Besides, we've the precedent cases with Nami, kind-of with Vivi,
and recently with Boa, so I start to gradually believe that this
will be another case regarding signs.

In fact I'm seeing more things from that ch.157 page,
now that I've been rereading it again and again..; but I don't want to
sound like I'm making an anouncement or something....

beastboy
May 16, 2010, 05:33 PM
He just wrote AS, that is the same as Ace in many languages, and then crossed the S, and wrote CE!
And where is the miraculous dot??

Dekker
May 16, 2010, 05:43 PM
and since
I assume most of us don't do tattoo, tattooing might not
work like that ...

Well, I'm not into tattooing myself, but I never ever saw someone with a crossed out letter. A good tattoer will always try to fix such a failure to still make it look at least decent (like adding a snake to the new formed c out of the s or so) enough to still be happy with it. Something like ace's arm would be unthinkable...

I hope we are going to see if there is actually a symbolic meaning behind the striked s.

Akainu
May 16, 2010, 05:44 PM
He just wrote AS, that is the same as Ace in many languages, and then crossed the S, and wrote CE!
And where is the miraculous dot??
in the middle of the C *duh* clearly visible in the link to chapter 157 that was posted ;)
It's also just a theory that might work out or might not, it's Oda who did it after all. I more or less remember something similar to what Razh wrote, might have been one of Odas answers to SBS questions that get overlooked way too often... (no need to be sarcastic on that though ;P )

Razh
May 16, 2010, 06:23 PM
I thought it was a general consensus that it was a mistake from the shitty tattoo artist. I'd say it something similar to that marine photographer trying to take a picture of Sanji with the lens cap on. Oda likes to joke around if anything.

I thought that tattoo was funny as hell, and also awesome. Showing such a cool guy with such an obvious goof with the tattoo is one of the reasons why I enjoy One Piece so much. I mean really, he or that artist must have been drunk at the time.

As for the dot in the "C", that's just a font style.

Btw, I know how the real tattoo artist would fix the problem, but that wouldn't be funny.

elitefox
May 16, 2010, 10:09 PM
Wow the eyes of people sure makes wonders :D

anyways will Luffy get to meet the tenriyubito?


I wonder why did Ace set out at age 10?
he is 10 at the time(flashback) right?
and they were saving money to buy a pirate ship right? so why go on the raft in the first place.

There must have been a lot that happen in the past.

El-Thor
May 17, 2010, 01:29 AM
If by meet you mean see, then yeah he will probably catch a glimpse of them. He definitely won't have a full out interaction with them (be that what it may).

BlackHair
May 17, 2010, 01:44 AM
I never bothered to give any thoughts on that. And honestly I don't see a relation with Saboo at all. But now Im wishing for a explanation from Oda :P

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 17, 2010, 05:28 AM
i think the tatoo theory is rather likely , as jojophile said , you dont need to remember your name by making a tatoo , because they usually symbolize sth .

kanmati
May 17, 2010, 05:59 AM
'asce' italy language.translate to english as 'Axes'

and i found the deeply meaning of axis from band electrelane album Axes.mean 'Too Pure'.
http://www.musicomh.com/albums/electrelane-2.htm
[hr]
'asce' italy language.translate to english as 'Axes'

and i found the deeply meaning of axes from band electrelane album Axes.mean 'Too Pure'.
http://www.musicomh.com/albums/electrelane-2.htm

Szaman
May 17, 2010, 06:10 AM
And here I thought that Ace went to get a tattoo at some guy who thought it was spelled "As", then Ace saw that and made him correct it.

What a fool I've been...

"As" is, in fact, a direct polish translation of "ace" :P
And let's be reasonable about this - isn't it just 10x more likely to be a simple spelling mistake: "ase" instead of "ace"?

kanmati
May 17, 2010, 06:28 AM
ase(finnish)=weapon(english). haha this going crazy. need to stop. as i remembered in SBS oda already stated..it just a mistake.

OunknownO
May 17, 2010, 07:02 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/574/10/

I didn't know that sabo was mentioned before the flashback

DLord.Van.Buuren
May 17, 2010, 12:27 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/574/10/

I didn't know that sabo was mentioned before the flashback

well many actually , since there was a confusion to what it could be interpreted .

k-dom
May 17, 2010, 01:00 PM
ase(finnish)=weapon(english). haha this going crazy. need to stop. as i remembered in SBS oda already stated..it just a mistake.

Actually, I don't think it was the object of a SBS so far, but I can be mistaken.

Youbba
May 17, 2010, 01:17 PM
I really hope that Sabo has nothing to do with the tenryubito (sorry for the spelling :p).
I always had this long range prediction that Luffy mother is a D and a tenryubito, but i guess we'll have to wait for a few year before Luffy mother is introduced dead or alive.



does anyone know if we are getting a chapter this week?
Yep there is a chapter : http://www.shonenjump.com/e/weeklyshonenjump/next.html

llmcduff
May 17, 2010, 02:12 PM
Hope flashback will end after this week and Luffy will get a huge power up after this ordeal. He needs it.

johnnyb7
May 17, 2010, 03:13 PM
does anyone know if we are getting a chapter this week?

Yes i believe we will be getting one around wednesday or thursday is my guess
[hr]
I'm guessing that Sabo has died, but that Luffy didn't actually get to see the tenrybiuto.

After the flashback, I'm guessing the Straw-hat pirates are gonna start regrouping, Luffy will have been taught how to use Haki, and will be incredibly more powerful.

Xenos3421
May 17, 2010, 04:02 PM
I dunno, with the introduction of this whole Goa kingdom I don't see this flashback ending anytime soon.

And I do not mind.

Personally i've been waiting to read about Luffy's past ever since i realized the first chapter didn't really count. I imagine this to be a tastefull build up to playing out all those flashback panals from the 550's and 574.

All leading up to luffy's first gomu gomu no pistol!

Plus this is just a fun flashback. It's like Oda's getting his "dragonball-esque" arc.

beastboy
May 17, 2010, 04:58 PM
I wouldn't mind at all, if this was like 20 chapters long, if it had a good set up, and it would be like Oda teasing us:
You want Straw Hat crew back, don't you, fuck your self, I'm going to do it my way, if you say you don't like it, you'll eat your own words!

Hahaha

topkomputer
May 17, 2010, 05:58 PM
I wouldn't mind at all, if this was like 20 chapters long, if it had a good set up, and it would be like Oda teasing us:
You want Straw Hat crew back, don't you, fuck your self, I'm going to do it my way, if you say you don't like it, you'll eat your own words!

Hahaha

When you said it, that doesn't sound like Oda at all. Did you read his SBS forum? You'll know how he sound.

elitefox
May 17, 2010, 06:57 PM
I wonder how many fold will Luffy powerup

We can't even consider him at 50% in the war right? might be 30-40% only

Will the marines give Luffy a good bounty that would shock everyone in the SH crew assuming that they didn't know Luffy joined one of the greatest war on OP world

chitgoks
May 17, 2010, 10:00 PM
I wonder how many fold will Luffy powerup

We can't even consider him at 50% in the war right? might be 30-40% only

Will the marines give Luffy a good bounty that would shock everyone in the SH crew assuming that they didn't know Luffy joined one of the greatest war on OP world

zoro would be pissed like hell because he wasnt able to join the war ;)

johnnyb7
May 17, 2010, 11:21 PM
zoro would be pissed like hell because he wasnt able to join the war ;)

Zoro's gonna be pissed as hell, but not that he couldn't be in the war. He's gonna be pissed at the fact that Luffy couldn't protect his crew, especially since Zoro had JUST nearly died protecting Luffy and the rest of the crew himself, and when he was out of commission no one else could help. Essentially, when Zoro was down for the count, they were shit out of luck.

If a captain can't protect his crew then he's fails as a captain. And as Zoro said, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/06/ , if Luffy gets in his way of his goal, he'll cut Luffy's stomach open and leave the crew. Zoro had Luffy's back, but Luffy didn't protect him when he needed him. Zoro is going to be pissed as hell when they meet up again.

I think he'll be pissed at least, he may not simply due to the fact that Ace has died and that's hard on Luffy already.

elitefox
May 18, 2010, 12:34 AM
Zoro's gonna be pissed as hell, but not that he couldn't be in the war. He's gonna be pissed at the fact that Luffy couldn't protect his crew, especially since Zoro had JUST nearly died protecting Luffy and the rest of the crew himself, and when he was out of commission no one else could help. Essentially, when Zoro was down for the count, they were shit out of luck.

If a captain can't protect his crew then he's fails as a captain. And as Zoro said, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/06/ , if Luffy gets in his way of his goal, he'll cut Luffy's stomach open and leave the crew. Zoro had Luffy's back, but Luffy didn't protect him when he needed him. Zoro is going to be pissed as hell when they meet up again.

I think he'll be pissed at least, he may not simply due to the fact that Ace has died and that's hard on Luffy already.

I think zoro knows that their opponents are too much or way over them... thanks to rayleigh and kuma they didn't die. They are much in the same position... cannot protect their crew.

I hope to see the full power of Luffy though I doubt they can fight an admiral haha... maybe in raftel before BB since I think BB is the final fight.

Omnion_1990
May 18, 2010, 01:10 AM
People keep overlooking something about luffy. Every non-logia fighter hes come across hes pretty much fucked up royally. pretty such luffy can hit kid. the point is now luffy needs to be able to HIT logias - he just needs haki control. imo hancock wont teach him, itll be GARP.

El-Thor
May 18, 2010, 01:20 AM
Thing about Luffy is he finds ways to hit Logias. He hit Enel, he hit Croc and he hit Smoker (although now he won't be able to anymore). Luffy's genius comes from finding ways to defeat logias through other methods. Yea, Haki would be awesome, but then he will just pound every single logia into the ground. There is definitely a limitation or weakness to Haki and Oda-sensei will reveal that sooner or later

Dekker
May 18, 2010, 01:54 AM
There is definitely a limitation or weakness to Haki and Oda-sensei will reveal that sooner or later

There is, and we even saw it in the war. If there wasn't a way for logias to get around it all 3 Admirals would be toast already. Akainu was hit by Vista and Marko (he called them even haki users), Aokiji and Kizaru were hit by Whitebeareds weapon infused with haki (ok, we only know for sure he used haki before hitting Aokiji but i highly doubt whitebeared wouldn't use it against Kizaru)

elitefox
May 18, 2010, 02:59 AM
Thing about Luffy is he finds ways to hit Logias. He hit Enel, he hit Croc and he hit Smoker (although now he won't be able to anymore). Luffy's genius comes from finding ways to defeat logias through other methods. Yea, Haki would be awesome, but then he will just pound every single logia into the ground. There is definitely a limitation or weakness to Haki and Oda-sensei will reveal that sooner or later

I don't think there is another way since Oda have been emphasizing it a lot..

and even brought Luffy in an island where almost if not all are using haki.
I believe 99% Luffy will one way or another will learn haki, maybe from hancock since she is kicking with haki(pacifista), maybe from marigold(I doubt) or even from old lady nyoh. nyoh.

But I am wondering what about the others.
Nami - Can you infuse haki with weather?
Usopp possibly but who will teach him btw, Luffy?
Sanji, maybe a new kenpo
Zoro, new techs or maybe there is really someone living in that place... mihawk?
Brook, new notes? or swordsmanship... but a war will definitely strenghten him.
Franky - super strength upgrade, parts upgrade. >= a pacifista
Robin - I can't of anything, hers are unique :D

Since logia are rare and I don't think the SH will battle 3 admirals at a time then I predict only 3 will have haki :D

Luffy, Zoro and Usopp(Yeah right, I want to make him bad ass like Benn Beckman but still with the cowardly attitude:tem)


on reading, I doubt Ace has king's haki since he can't hit Akainu.

Shanks sword infuse with haki didn't even melt or got hot from probably 10 seconds of blocking a fist of magma.

Szaman
May 18, 2010, 03:48 AM
Thing about Luffy is he finds ways to hit Logias. He hit Enel, he hit Croc and he hit Smoker (although now he won't be able to anymore). Luffy's genius comes from finding ways to defeat logias through other methods. Yea, Haki would be awesome, but then he will just pound every single logia into the ground. There is definitely a limitation or weakness to Haki and Oda-sensei will reveal that sooner or later

When did he hit Smoker?
I seem to remember that only Boa was able to do this. And it was bolded out with a comment from Smoker himself.
Even Ace wasn't able to "hit" Smoker. Just stop him.
Luffy ran away as fast as he could whenever he saw Smoker.

As for a teacher: Garp? How? Where? Garp is in MHQ for sure and won't move until the safety and repairs are finished. And that's going to take some time. Plus he can't just go and teach Luffy - he's too exposed and Luffy's whereabouts would be found out pretty fast.
If not Boa (she still has my vote) and you insist on "family", then Dragon is a lot more likely to teach his son then Garp.

Omnion_1990
May 18, 2010, 03:55 AM
There is, and we even saw it in the war. If there wasn't a way for logias to get around it all 3 Admirals would be toast already. Akainu was hit by Vista and Marko (he called them even haki users), Aokiji and Kizaru were hit by Whitebeareds weapon infused with haki (ok, we only know for sure he used haki before hitting Aokiji but i highly doubt whitebeared wouldn't use it against Kizaru)

I don't think there is a weakness to "ambition". imo haki was brought in as a counter balance to logias/ df abilities.

of course in this instance imo all 3 admirals use haki - i mean you cant NOT expect 3 ADMIRALS to not use haki, you are talking about a force who shiits on SUPERNOVAS without even using imo 1/10 of their full fighting prowess:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/11/

the boas do the same palm thing with luffy using haki, and sentomaru.

But like rayliegh did i think haki can either be one of two things, you either have a ridiculous haki like garp and it oozes out so youre in god mode all the time:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/

Or you have to aim it/ concentrate it in bursts such as imo aoikiji used his haki to nullify this attack on whitebeard:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/05/

I think the "dont be silly" was a reference to aokiji would be using his haki is he was gunna go 1vs1 on whitebeard.

BUT was caught off-guard by jozu who i think used his haki since aokiji had blood coming out of him so he WAS damaged:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/06/

Note: with the jose case the reason why i saw i THINK he used his haki, and i dont say i "know", is because of this:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/573/14-15/

Ace, a logia, go hurt because Lava > Fire. Now aokiji could have definately got hurt because in terms of DF abilities Diamond is harder than ice.

Now if a person without a logia but with haki hits a logia with haki it was nullify, this will happen:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/575/05/

What marco did.

Now the only thing i can think of is if your haki is stronger than someone elses haki this will happen:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/18-19/

Garp hit marco in his rebirth flame mode and hes supposed to regenerate any injury on the spot?? lol look at marcos cheek and his facial expression. he KNOWS instinctively garp > him whereas he took on the other admirals fine which to me is another indication of how strong garp is.

Garp > admirals.

chitgoks
May 18, 2010, 04:24 AM
Zoro's gonna be pissed as hell, but not that he couldn't be in the war. He's gonna be pissed at the fact that Luffy couldn't protect his crew, especially since Zoro had JUST nearly died protecting Luffy and the rest of the crew himself, and when he was out of commission no one else could help. Essentially, when Zoro was down for the count, they were shit out of luck.

If a captain can't protect his crew then he's fails as a captain. And as Zoro said, http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/06/ , if Luffy gets in his way of his goal, he'll cut Luffy's stomach open and leave the crew. Zoro had Luffy's back, but Luffy didn't protect him when he needed him. Zoro is going to be pissed as hell when they meet up again.

I think he'll be pissed at least, he may not simply due to the fact that Ace has died and that's hard on Luffy already.

i cant see that happening. luffy already failed back in thriller bark when only zoro and sanji faced kuma. and even if luffy was exhausted from his fight with moria, i still think it aint an excuse, luffy failed protecting his crew if not for zoro's sacrifice, they'd be all toast
[hr]

Thing about Luffy is he finds ways to hit Logias. He hit Enel, he hit Croc and he hit Smoker (although now he won't be able to anymore). Luffy's genius comes from finding ways to defeat logias through other methods. Yea, Haki would be awesome, but then he will just pound every single logia into the ground. There is definitely a limitation or weakness to Haki and Oda-sensei will reveal that sooner or later

it will awfully be hard to counter kizaru with props. i cant think of anything that luffy could use to hit kizaru. at least with croc he used liquid to solidify him, for enel it was because he is rubber, for smoker im not sure when he was able to hit him though.
[hr]

I don't think there is another way since Oda have been emphasizing it a lot..

and even brought Luffy in an island where almost if not all are using haki.
I believe 99% Luffy will one way or another will learn haki, maybe from hancock since she is kicking with haki(pacifista), maybe from marigold(I doubt) or even from old lady nyoh. nyoh.

But I am wondering what about the others.
Nami - Can you infuse haki with weather?
Usopp possibly but who will teach him btw, Luffy?
Sanji, maybe a new kenpo
Zoro, new techs or maybe there is really someone living in that place... mihawk?
Brook, new notes? or swordsmanship... but a war will definitely strenghten him.
Franky - super strength upgrade, parts upgrade. >= a pacifista
Robin - I can't of anything, hers are unique :D

Since logia are rare and I don't think the SH will battle 3 admirals at a time then I predict only 3 will have haki :D

Luffy, Zoro and Usopp(Yeah right, I want to make him bad ass like Benn Beckman but still with the cowardly attitude:tem)


on reading, I doubt Ace has king's haki since he can't hit Akainu.

Shanks sword infuse with haki didn't even melt or got hot from probably 10 seconds of blocking a fist of magma.

not all of them will know how to use haki. for sure the most powerful in their crew will, but not all of them

St Michael
May 18, 2010, 05:14 AM
I wonder how many fold will Luffy powerup

We can't even consider him at 50% in the war right? might be 30-40% only

Will the marines give Luffy a good bounty that would shock everyone in the SH crew assuming that they didn't know Luffy joined one of the greatest war on OP world

Luffy was at 100% , at least at the beginning.

Iva injected adrenalin into him , even if he was tired as hell , we can assume that he didn't feel that way during the fights.

There's no shame to be crushed in that war , as Nyoh predicted.

Luffy was at his best.

For the logia thing , I've always thought that Ao Kiji and Aka Inu didn't use haki to counter Vista's and WB's attack.
Just experience , cleverness and maybe mantra :p

I believe Ao Kiji dig himself an hole in his stomach for the bisento to pass through without actually doing any damage.
The same for Aka Inu with his throat.

Because I don't really buy the haki defense thing and the theory above highlights the admirals better. They aren't only great DF/haki users but also extremely good fighters.

Dekker
May 18, 2010, 06:49 AM
I don't think there is a weakness to "ambition". imo haki was brought in as a counter balance to logias/ df abilities.

of course in this instance imo all 3 admirals use haki - i mean you cant NOT expect 3 ADMIRALS to not use haki, you are talking about a force who shiits on SUPERNOVAS without even using imo 1/10 of their full fighting prowess:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/11/


I was not referring to this at all. Not sure why you brought this up? And to your first point: Well, i think it looks more like with haki you can hit logias, but they can still avoid getting hit. That was what I was talking about.



the boas do the same palm thing with luffy using haki, and sentomaru.

But like rayliegh did i think haki can either be one of two things, you either have a ridiculous haki like garp and it oozes out so youre in god mode all the time:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/


Hm? I dont think we can say anything like that. Haki is always there, it's just about if you are utilizing it at a certain time and when you dont use it. But then again we know far to little about haki.



Or you have to aim it/ concentrate it in bursts such as imo aoikiji used his haki to nullify this attack on whitebeard:

I think the "dont be silly" was a reference to aokiji would be using his haki is he was gunna go 1vs1 on whitebeard.


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/05/


Ok, this is clearly the other way around. The pirate obviously wanted to know if Whitebeared killed him. the don't be silly was a referrence that he, Aokiji, a goddamn admiral, wouldn't die so easily. But in this picture you can see what I ment. We can not clearly see if he was hit. It might be that he was able to completly avoid whitebeards attack hitting him.



BUT was caught off-guard by jozu who i think used his haki since aokiji had blood coming out of him so he WAS damaged:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/06/

Note: with the jose case the reason why i saw i THINK he used his haki, and i dont say i "know", is because of this:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/573/14-15/


There are several possible explanations for this: He could've focused too much on whitbeared and was not in logia mode at that moment (which we can clearly doubt) or he was hit by a haki tackle. He did not punch Aokiji, he tackled him, making his attack bigger then Whitebeards actual attack. So in this case he didn't have enough time to actually avoid his attack.



Ace, a logia, go hurt because Lava > Fire. Now aokiji could have definately got hurt because in terms of DF abilities Diamond is harder than ice.


Thats a good possibility.



Now if a person without a logia but with haki hits a logia with haki it was nullify, this will happen:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/575/05/

What marco did.


In my oppinion it looks more like he used fire to block the attack somehow (possibly with his wings?) and even if they are destroyed he can regenerate them in no time. Well actually we can't see what happened.



Now the only thing i can think of is if your haki is stronger than someone elses haki this will happen:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/18-19/

Garp hit marco in his rebirth flame mode and hes supposed to regenerate any injury on the spot?? lol look at marcos cheek and his facial expression. he KNOWS instinctively garp > him whereas he took on the other admirals fine which to me is another indication of how strong garp is.

We can not make an assumption like that. Could also be that he just did not regenerate it directly. He didn't do that either when he was shot by kizaru at the beginning of the war where he took the blow for whitebeared. His eye was even missing. Tho i agree with you, that he knew that garp is god damn strong and he wont probably make it through to ace.

Don't make marcos abilities out as beeing like a logia as he clearly is not. Marco can regenerate himself but he cant make attacks pass through him. I doubt you need any form of haki to hit him.



Garp > admirals.
We haven't seen Garp fight yet. We can't make any assumptions like that. We just know hes the marines hero and is called "The fist".

Vexor
May 18, 2010, 03:20 PM
We haven't seen Garp fight yet. We can't make any assumptions like that. We just know hes the marines hero and is called "The fist".

And we know garp had the chance to become an admiral if he wanted to

and that fought equally against roger who fought equally vs whitebeard who would win against an admiral if he hadn't been stabbed by the his mate(forgot the name :E)

so garp>admirals. though the diffrence isn't that huge. also still remember that the complete marine+shibibukai=the 4 emperor. they just fought vs one of them and though the marine did not have any big losses without garp and senghok it was really close, just the 3 admirals +shibibukai

Dekker
May 18, 2010, 03:38 PM
And we know garp had the chance to become an admiral if he wanted to

Which happened 20 years ago.



and that fought equally against roger who fought equally vs whitebeard who would win against an admiral if he hadn't been stabbed by the his mate(forgot the name :E)

That argument does not work. There is more to combats then just fighting power. Equations like garp = roger and whitebeared = roger does not imply garp = whitebeared.



so garp>admirals. though the diffrence isn't that huge. also still remember that the complete marine+shibibukai=the 4 emperor. they just fought vs one of them and though the marine did not have any big losses without garp and senghok it was really close, just the 3 admirals +shibibukai
Yeah, again that does not work. We have not seen what abilities Garp has. Yes he was admiral level back then, but age always takes its toll. Don't forget Kizaru wasn't even there 20 years ago (at least we haven't seen him). Kizaru in my oppinion is actually the most dangerous of all admirals if it wasn't for his habbit of playing with his enemies. Hes the only fighter so far who could just one shot any opponent if he wanted to. Hes actually the bigges plotdesaster around atm if you ask me =/

johnnyb7
May 18, 2010, 11:33 PM
i cant see that happening. luffy already failed back in thriller bark when only zoro and sanji faced kuma. and even if luffy was exhausted from his fight with moria, i still think it aint an excuse, luffy failed protecting his crew if not for zoro's sacrifice, they'd be all toast
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it will awfully be hard to counter kizaru with props. i cant think of anything that luffy could use to hit kizaru. at least with croc he used liquid to solidify him, for enel it was because he is rubber, for smoker im not sure when he was able to hit him though.
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not all of them will know how to use haki. for sure the most powerful in their crew will, but not all of them

But Luffy failed on more than one occasion now, he couldn't protect them from Kuma in either scenario. Maybe he won't be upset, but if he isn't then I'd expect Luffy to make a vow of some kind to his crew to never allow them to be defeated again and to never fail to protect them. If he made some kind of promise like that it would be good.

El-Thor
May 18, 2010, 11:52 PM
But Luffy failed on more than one occasion now, he couldn't protect them from Kuma in either scenario. Maybe he won't be upset, but if he isn't then I'd expect Luffy to make a vow of some kind to his crew to never allow them to be defeated again and to never fail to protect them. If he made some kind of promise like that it would be good.

True. Luffy failed as a captain a few times already. But if you remember back in the Bubble Islands (forgot name... Shabody?) he was pretty distraught when Kuma sent his friends flying one by one. He said "What's wrong with me? I couldn't even save a single nakama?!" http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/18/
Knowing Oda, Luffy will have a hard time with his nakama when they all assemble. He will have to gain their trust once more and this time swear that he will protect them no matter what. Back at the Isle of Justice he thought Gear Second and Third will help him protect his friends but he was wrong. He definitely needs a power up now more than ever and Oda will deliver> :darn

topkomputer
May 19, 2010, 10:07 AM
And we know garp had the chance to become an admiral if he wanted to


I never read it before that Garp could become an admiral. Maybe because the Gorosei or higher-ups keep D people position down so they can keep their eyes on him.

Marche
May 19, 2010, 10:11 AM
I never read it before that Garp could become an admiral. Maybe because the Gorosei or higher-ups keep D people position down so they can keep their eyes on him.That was in chapter 0.
And no, was Garp who rejectected the promotion.

LeDuck
May 19, 2010, 10:11 AM
I never read it before that Garp could become an admiral. Maybe because the Gorosei or higher-ups keep D people position down so they can keep their eyes on him.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/03/

Here you go, it was in chapter 0, the extra chapter oda did for the 10th movie.