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Cyven
November 17, 2006, 09:08 PM
Feel free to use this thread to discuss all things Gin. :amuse

As suggested by WL, a topic dedicated to Gin, more specifically, his motives and his true strengths.

I personally think Gin fears Aizen, even though he's quite strong himself (proven when he seems to be toying with Hitsugaya in his fight with him).

In terms of strength, he seems to be inbetween Hitsugaya's level and Byakuya's level. (I think it's safe to say this because even though he was wounded by his battle with Ichigo, Byakuya still managed to intercept Gin's attack), it's unfortunate that he's never shown his bankai, and I doubt he even used his shikai's full power so far.

Post your thoughts about him here, please ^^;

bax
November 18, 2006, 12:20 PM
As for his Shikai full power, I think he did unleashed it once. During his fight against Hitsugaya, yeah although it can be furtherly argued. But my point of saying this is that, he can't be just playing with Hitsugaya while Hitsugaya is so serious in attacking him.

As for his BanKai, I can say much until I see it. Although, I imagine it will be something like a spear weilding Japanese warrior.

I'm not so sure about how you put Gin between Hitsugaya and Byakuya. Gin holds more mysteries than Aizen. His true motive of joining Aizen is somewhat blurred by his laid back nature.

Cyven
November 18, 2006, 01:32 PM
I put him inbetween Byakuya and Hitsugaya purely from their power's point of view. Hitsugaya to me comes across as one of the weakest captains, since he seems to get swatted down pretty easily even though he's always fighting seriously.

Byakuya on the other hand is one of the upper class captains and thanks to his zanpakutoh's abilities he can kill someone almost instantly, depending on their speed and strength.

Gin on the other hand, is pretty much always shown toying with his opponents. First Ichigo, GREATLY holding back his shikai's strength (face it, had he not, it would have pierced not just Zangetsu, but Ichigo as well, as he was then). Then against Hitsugaya, I can't say if Gin used his full power with Shinsou there, but every move he made showed he was in every way superior to Hitsugaya.

The only time he did seem to get serious was when Aizen ordered him to kill Rukia. His attack had enough power to kill her and it seemed he used its full speed, but Byakuya, who was wounded at the time, still managed to intercept it. This, in my book, puts Byakuya above Gin in terms of speed at least.

But hey, who knows what Shinsou can do in bankai form, plus it might even have extra abilities in shikai form.

For now though, I say that Byakuya > Gin > Hitsugaya. This'd mean Ichigo *should* be able to take him down.

Electric-Mind
January 31, 2007, 01:53 AM
I read that a recent Bleach video game had Gin releasing his bankai. It indicated that Gin pointed his sword to the sky and released his sword. After touching the sky blades rained down like water drops. Could be fake information but it sounds like a high possibility ^^

ckkdlek
January 31, 2007, 07:55 PM
it would be cool if there was a bankai like that :D
but i doubt it, i mean if manga didn't reveal it, i dun c how a game could
nways...gin is rely strong...because he's so...smilin :D (didn't make sense at all srry)

Ichimaru Gin n Tonic
January 31, 2007, 08:30 PM
I think the current Hueco Mundo storyline will somewhat reveal how strong Gin really is. Personally, I'd love to see him teach Ichigo a lesson. As for him following Aizen, I think that motive will also be revealed in HM storyline.
I saw his BanKai in the game, it's pretty much like Byakuya's, just like what Electric-Mind said. We really havent see him releasing going all out against an opponent, but i doubt that his power is below Byakuya, I think he's in the same class of Ichigo on Vizard Mode. :D

destinator
January 31, 2007, 08:33 PM
I saw his BanKai in the game, it's pretty much like Byakuya's, just like what Electric-Mind said. We really havent see him releasing going all out against an opponent, but i doubt that his power is below Byakuya, I think he's in the same class of Ichigo on Vizard Mode. :D

I dont want to crush your dreams. But in genereal all game moves are made up. The best title for this is the Narutimate Hero series for playstation 2. They got like 4-5 special moves(made on the will of the developers) for every character, sometimes even more. So I highly doubt that this is his real Bankai. I thinks it more like a normal speacial for a videogame. But feel free to correct me ^^

Ichimaru Gin n Tonic
January 31, 2007, 08:45 PM
I dont want to crush your dreams. But in genereal all game moves are made up. The best title for this is the Narutimate Hero series for playstation 2. They got like 4-5 special moves(made on the will of the developers) for every character, sometimes even more. So I highly doubt that this is his real Bankai. I thinks it more like a normal speacial for a videogame. But feel free to correct me ^^
Yeah, the only game with more or less the same move as the manga/anime that i know is DBZ. Looks like we'll have to wait out how HM storyline goes. I hope his ban kai's gonna be real cool, like destroying his opponent without mercy in a blink of an eye regardless his opponent's power. :D
My, how very biased of me. :D

Electric-Mind
February 01, 2007, 01:25 AM
Lol in the blink of an eye? Your thinking too much like Aizen :p

Even if his bankai isnt similar to the game I think it would still be pretty cool if swords rained down. But thinking about Shinsou translating to God-Spear I expect some giant spear thing, more like a direct attack type sword like Ikkaku's bankai.

But once again we will just have to see how things play out in Hueco Mundo. I think eventually some captains will come through the portal and Gin will be forced to fight against them in full strength. Hopefully Byakuya :D

Deien
February 01, 2007, 10:21 AM
Well....going soley on the battle between them, I'd say they were very even. Which is saying a lot for Hitsugaya considering the gap between them in battle experience. Considering that when Hitsugaya was still on the outside looking in, Gin was Vice captain beneath Aizen. I do beleive, however, that Gin is just loyal to Aizen. Bonds between vice captain and captain have been shown to be strong in most cases, even if somewhat strained. Its also been shown that members of the different squads can have member beneath the captain who have Ban Kai. So its more than feasible that Gin has had his shikai and Ban kai for a considerable length of time, further I can't be certain when Aizen's Mild Mannered Clark Kent personality first started, if that was a front the entire time, Gin could turn out to be MUCH stronger than expected.

>.> also, on a Byakuya note. He would have killed Ichigo if his hollow didn't come out and essentially have Ichigo go Vaizard on him to the point that Byakuya was injured more extensively than by Ichigo's Ban Kai alone. So I'd say Byakuya's strength is being misjudged in relation to Ichigo.

abXIIII
February 01, 2007, 04:32 PM
Well there's this theory i came up with which is Gin is actually stronger than Aizen and he's follwing him till somwhere he will betray'em but then after see'in Aizen in HM and how everyone fears'em.....totally changed my mind :o .
So Gin is actually very strong propablly stronger than Byakuya& Ichigo and we'll see that once we progress in the HM chapters .
:p
As for his Bankai i think it would be like Giagantic spear thing with some other effect maybe..............somthin cool :p

Vegetoacs
February 02, 2007, 04:52 PM
Hmmm, the problem with Gin is indeed the laid back attitude.

Although one thing i will say for that is it somewhat proves that Gin wasnt necessarily massively stronger when he fought Hitsugaya. The fact he actually became serious enough to open his eyes and his entire mannerism to change for a moment was proof of at least slight trouble. We also need to consider that Toshiro still had the liability of protecting a semi-unconcious hinamori. This is about the extent of our knowledge of Gin in battle.

He obviously has bankai, and seems to have moderate knowledge of demon magic. It is hard to determine whether he or aizen possess hollow powers as of yet. I would suppose however that he must be fairly powerful to not be simply torn down by the espada...although this could merely be fear of retribution on aizen's part.

Another thing that was made mention to was aizen's power, pertaining to his ability to cut down enemies with a single slash usually, or something amazingly like repelling ichigo's bankai with a single finger. I believe the most crucial thing to remember here is the nature of his shikai release. The point is, how can one fight if they are more than blind. If they are led to believe that something is somewhere, only to find their really slicing a large gash into you. I dont doubt that Aizen is horrendously powerful, but i dont believe he's really THAT powerful, otherwise the limitation of shinigami powers thing wouldnt apply.

Although getting back to Gin now......To be honest, Im not entirely sure he's the big evil one at all. The flash backs with Matsumoto are errily sad. A weird thing about he and aizen is they both have very distinct sides to them that are polar opposites of each other, both very gentle, and then very evil...except aizen seems to have a more hannibel lecter disposition...errily brilliant, but sociopathic all the same...

For now, i suppose our best guess would be that gin's motives are aizen's motives. As previously stated, Lieutenents and Captains have an *Odd* reletionship. It varies between strained distant respect to outright closeness. If we assume the Gin takes the position of lieutenent under aizen, aparantly as he always has, then it would be safe to assume he has no other agenda.

If anything, Tousen is more likely to either be the Big bad guy, or the less evil one. As evidenced in the surveilence room, and his comments regarding wonderweiss, he seems to loath gin and people like him.

Essentially, we wont know about Gin until he fights, but I dont believe him to be at Byukuya's level. I would infer he is most likely on par wiith ichigo without using his vizard powers, although we cannot be truely sure until we see him fight properly.

Electric-Mind
February 03, 2007, 12:29 AM
I agree with Vegetoacs and to add another point... Further evidence of Gin's loyalty to Aizen is evident when he leaves Matsumoto. Clearly those two had a strong relationship and I don't think he was a fake in front of her, afterall he apologized to her before he left. Therefore we can see that he is really giving up his only best friend just to be with Aizen.

In response to the fight with Hitsugaya, yes he did open his eyes, however this might of not been cause he was worrying. It was probably because he was starting to get serious. Therefore we havent seen his true power at all, probably not even the full extent of his shikai. I mean yeh he did stab Byakuya but lets not forget the fact that he had just fought Ichigo and sustained heavy injuries. I think if Byakuya was at full strength then Gin would most likely be around the same level as him. Maybe even weaker because Byakuya would take it more seriously...

Deien
February 03, 2007, 12:59 AM
I'll only touch on Aizen briefly, there should be no doubt that he is clearly one or two strength wise in bleach right now. The only other person, so far as we've seen that can be compared to Aizen is Yamamato. I'd contend the drop off to third place is considerable and nigh impossible to be bridged at this current time. That is of course if we're talking pure shinagami here. I'll not include either Isshin or Uruharu or Uryuu's pop. While they've shown considerable skill its never been on the same scale as Aizen or Yamamato. There is also the problem about shinagami. Obviously their were shinagami before Yamamato started the school, as those twin sword buddy...guys were the first graduates and the first captains from the school. That however, isn't to say that an Aizen or a Byakuya, ect. , were not already Shinagami who developed their skills seperately. That in itself would leave room for Aizen to already have been exceedingly powerful before the current system.

On to Gin, During his fight with Hitsugaya, Gin time and again took advantage of the situation making Hitsugaya look downright foolish at tijmes. I'll not make light of Hitsugaya, because by the end of the fight he'd successfully cornered and restricted his movement, despite the close range, nearly eye scratching retort from Gin. Had they been alone, I'm certain that we'd have seen them both go into their Ban Kai. Needless to say things happened, but considering that Gin's goal wasn't to kill Hitsugaya, correct me if I'm wrong, but to delay him. I'd say he did that perfectly. Being overwhelmed at times, on his heels, running, he kept Hitsugaya right there for as long as he could without things escalating too far.


Chaa~ its days like this I wish for like individual back stories to come out for the characters so I can know the relationship between Gin and Matsumoto in detail. It sorta comes from nowhere, we don't see them together often, if at all, they hardly talk so far as I can remember, and then to have them know each from before their Shinagami days, man...

alekosss_kenpachi
February 03, 2007, 04:16 PM
I had made a thread about Gin some months ago analyzing why is he a badass.My opinion: he is just below Aizen.Freakingly strong to the point that he has his independence and he is not Aizen's dog like the espadas.

strider123
February 04, 2007, 06:20 AM
I personally think that Gin in bankai mode is at least as strong as the 3rd espada... to support this theory, I give u this:

Ichigo (w/o bankai, but, in my oppinion, very close to it) ended his fight with Kenpachi almost in a stalemate
Kenpachi kicked Tousen's ass big time
Grimmjaw whooped Ichigo's ass (w/ bankai)
in HM, Tousen incinerated Grimmjaw's arm with ease

Having said all of that, i think it's safe to say that after going to HM, Aizen, Tousen and Gin got a huge power boost and probably they would own almost every captain in SS (except for Yamamoto, Ukitake, Kyoraku - because we haven't seen their full power - and, if he ever gets to know his zanpakutou name and reach at least shikai, Kenpachi)

Koen
February 04, 2007, 07:20 AM
I place gin on a level with byakuya and kenpachi. Gin's motives? I think gin is there for another reason. I don't see gin as a bad guy. He's only following orders of aizen but I believe him being a traitor and still having simpathy for soul society.

Remember when gin was captured by matsumoto: he said to aizen, sorry but I wasn't paying attention. yeah right, he as a capitain knew they were coming and was hoping for soul society to capture aizen.

naru_naru
February 05, 2007, 09:18 PM
Hitsugaya wasnt fighting him seriously he was pissed off and wanted to hurt gin, he wasnt even analysing gin to see his weakness or to see what form of attack gin utilised. Hitsugaya, although he is a captian, is still a child and sometimes his anger gets the better of him, however he is still seen as a genius and has a looong way to go before he actually reaches his potential.

in terms of Gin we have yet to see him actually fight. so far we only got tiny bits of info on what his zanpaktou is capable of. we gotta wait cos imo Gin is a sly fighter and is gonna be hard to take down.

Cyven
February 05, 2007, 11:47 PM
"For having made me this serious, regret as much as you damn well please"

^ is this not something Hitsugaya says to Gin? ^

If so, how can you even imply that Hitsugaya wasn't serious? Blinded by rage, thus leaving tactics behind and simply going for a kill? Sure, but don't think he wasn't serous XP

naru_naru
February 06, 2007, 12:07 PM
"For having made me this serious, regret as much as you damn well please"

^ is this not something Hitsugaya says to Gin? ^

If so, how can you even imply that Hitsugaya wasn't serious? Blinded by rage, thus leaving tactics behind and simply going for a kill? Sure, but don't think he wasn't serous XP


read the manga again (c 132) hitsugaya wasnt even thinking about battle tactics thats why he got caught cold by ichimaru's counter. if he was serious he'd have been aware of his surroundings like hyourinmaru behind him. but he was mad as in furious "i am going to kill u" mad, that is distinctly different from fighting serious, if he was serious he would have been more cautious and read into the battle more deeply. but he let his anger get into the way thats why unlike hitsugaya, ichimaru was able to produce such a simple but very effective counter.

when i say serious i mean level headed and calm, quick to analyse the environment and take the appropriate action like the rest of the captians (except for kenpachi).

sorry for any spelling gotta eat food while it hot :P

Cyven
February 06, 2007, 06:26 PM
lol ah so when you said he wasn't being serious, you meant he was being careless...

Alright, I see what you mean. And in that case I'd have to agree with ya :P

5enbonzakur4
February 09, 2007, 05:11 PM
I think that because gin's zanapkutou (shinsou) extends, (ikorose) he will most likely have a bankai that also extends.... maybe like a kick butt spear or something...


and this is really odd, but ill put it out here anyways, if hollows transform into arrancar, and shinigami into visored, then wont aizen, gin, and the other guy (i cant remember his name) become visored?

pelias
February 09, 2007, 11:28 PM
Well....going soley on the battle between them, I'd say they were very even. Which is saying a lot for Hitsugaya considering the gap between them in battle experience. Considering that when Hitsugaya was still on the outside looking in, Gin was Vice captain beneath Aizen. I do beleive, however, that Gin is just loyal to Aizen. Bonds between vice captain and captain have been shown to be strong in most cases, even if somewhat strained. Its also been shown that members of the different squads can have member beneath the captain who have Ban Kai. So its more than feasible that Gin has had his shikai and Ban kai for a considerable length of time, further I can't be certain when Aizen's Mild Mannered Clark Kent personality first started, if that was a front the entire time, Gin could turn out to be MUCH stronger than expected.

>.> also, on a Byakuya note. He would have killed Ichigo if his hollow didn't come out and essentially have Ichigo go Vaizard on him to the point that Byakuya was injured more extensively than by Ichigo's Ban Kai alone. So I'd say Byakuya's strength is being misjudged in relation to Ichigo.
if that´sthe case ichigo could kill him before sensei, hi putted his sword on byakuya´s trohat
but in general, i think byakuya could not fight at his full strength because after all, ichigo was trying to save rukia the sister of his beloved nisama or wherever his wife may have named, for me gin can be stronger than byakuya, he was acaptain long before byakuya, the trouble comes when since we don´t know if gin comes from nobility

5enbonzakur4
February 10, 2007, 10:20 AM
That and the fact that we only really saw gin fight once or twice, and even then he wa holding back...

alekosss_kenpachi
February 10, 2007, 01:10 PM
Gin is as mysterious as Urahara..!As for his power i think Aizen would never choose someone weak as a subordinate.I think Tousen is an exception cause of his blindness.(Aizen's zanpakutou has no effect ).

zelllogan
February 10, 2007, 01:17 PM
Gin is as mysterious as Urahara..!As for his power i think Aizen would never choose someone weak as a subordinate.I think Tousen is an exception cause of his blindness.(Aizen's zanpakutou has no effect ).
if tousen was not usefull , aizen could simply kill him. I doubt that gin is far stronger than tousen. What I think is that either gin or tousen are now completely transformed by the hougoukyu.

5enbonzakur4
February 10, 2007, 04:42 PM
That would be a really intersting plot twist...

unfortunately, i dont think that it is possible because the gougoukyu is thus far incomplete... otherwise, aizen would have used it on himself...

Cyven
February 10, 2007, 04:57 PM
however neither is the kind to use themselves as test subjects :P

alekosss_kenpachi
February 10, 2007, 07:25 PM
however neither is the kind to use themselves as test subjects :P
Yeah i agree with ya!Moreover if someone states that Tousen's strenght is a proof i think that if even if Aizen had used Hogyokou on Kaname he would have to do smth like put on a mask or smth...i dont think the streght boost would be constant.However maybe i am wrong since we have not seen any shinigami who has used it yet!

Cyven
February 11, 2007, 11:06 PM
Tousen is a firm believer in purity, why would he "muddle himself up" by becoming part hollow/part shinigami, just for extra strength? It'd make him the same as Kenpachi in the sense that he'd only care about strength and not his precious justice.

Tousen's the LAST shinigami who'd mess with the hougyoku if you ask me :-\ My guess is he's only on Aizen's side because he believes Aizen will "purify" Soul Society, so that people like Kenpachi won't ever be able to become captains again

conan
February 11, 2007, 11:45 PM
Tousen is a firm believer in purity, why would he "muddle himself up" by becoming part hollow/part shinigami, just for extra strength? It'd make him the same as Kenpachi in the sense that he'd only care about strength and not his precious justice.

Tousen's the LAST shinigami who'd mess with the hougyoku if you ask me :-\ My guess is he's only on Aizen's side because he believes Aizen will "purify" Soul Society, so that people like Kenpachi won't ever be able to become captains again

well not exactly, you are half right bot tousen is a seeker of power at the end, and he went to aizen for the reason he told momamura he did what he did " these eyes see justice in the path with least bloodshed" in a twisted way he sees that aizen will achieve that, and if it means to have him become vizard like or something else we havnet seen throught the hougyoku, my thought is he will do it.
anyway this thread is for gin not tousen, so I just liked the topic and popped in, well how srong is gin, we dont really know, why, becuase like ichigo called him on their first metting, he is a kitsune yarou (fox bastard), he has that smile of a satisfied fox and he is one cunning bastard, we wont know how strong he is til the end, but I would put him on par with kuchiki byakuya, I dont think he lacks skill to face some one at that level, he is skillfull and somewhat experienced, but he isnt at the top of the list to me, which might end up being wrong, aizen has a mind for technology and training, he lectured ichigo on how far he needed to go to get strength beyond shinigami's abilities, gin might have a similar liking to aizen in this part and might have ambitions of his own and used some of aizens methods to get further from what he was in soul society, all speculation though, you can never tell with bleach.

poopoomaru
February 12, 2007, 06:20 AM
Gin seems like he should be very powerful. Consider that he has got what has to be one of the sorriest conceptual Zanpakutos ever, and yet he still has made it to captain level. Other peoples soul slayer's do crazy things like send shock waves and disperse and hack people to pieces and create shields and beams of energy at the shikai level. His just gets longer. Longer you say? Surely you jest?! Nope . . . thats all it does . . . Nothing else?! Well . . . it gets longer really fast. . .

Perhaps that might not even be his swords power , or not it entirely. Consider that every other Zanpakuto changes its overall form when it goes Shikai. Not just shape or size , but its actual form. Whether it is Katana to rapier, wrecking ball, shurikens , shards of metal , or whatever. They always some other fundamental. Gins doesnt, no matter how long it gets its stays in the same classical japanese katana shape. Perhaps just isnt changing the shape to hide its power, and that is is supposed to transform into a spear, as its name suggests.

While this may or may not be really true, from what Ichigo's dad said about Zanpakuto's it might be entirely possible that that isnt Gin's power at all , that he is merely saying a fake incantation and name and extending the length of his sword rapidly just through reitsu control. Ichigo's dad did say that a captain level shinigami's soul slayer is actually the size of sky scrapers but that the make them smaller.

But if that is in fact his power and the true nature of his soul slayer, then imagine that in a fight with his bankai , that he would take to the sky. His zanpakuto, in bankai would be a spear at that point, its named after the god of spears or some such spear relatedness, and that he would shoot down the spear like a lightning bolt down onto his enemy.

He has got to be packing some kind of maajor power though, Aizen doesnt just see him as a pawn. Gin has been part of his plans since the beginning, he said he always considered no one else to be his vice-captain, which means to suggest I suppose that he see's Gin as a partner, while a lesser Shinigami and certainly less then him in most senses, a partner, not a minion.

alekosss_kenpachi
February 12, 2007, 09:14 AM
Very interesting post poopoomaru!!It could be true!But 95% Ikorose Shinshou is Gin's initial release!Of course it is sure that his zanpakutou has more abilities to be shown and it has a BANKAI that shoould be BAD-ASS!

zelllogan
February 12, 2007, 01:05 PM
Gin is the second and tousen is normally the third in aizen's organization. Normally they are supposed to be stronger than ulquiorria or the first arankar (if it's not the same person). That's enough to tell they are super strong.

But we have seen that tousen wasn't that strong in soul society. And in the other hand, the best arankars are maybe better than the best taichous. This is why I believe that these two are transformed by the hongoukyu (or whatever the name :)).

poopoomaru
February 12, 2007, 07:39 PM
Very interesting post poopoomaru!!It could be true!But 95% Ikorose Shinshou is Gin's initial release!Of course it is sure that his zanpakutou has more abilities to be shown and it has a BANKAI that shoould be BAD-ASS!


lol thanks. His power though will be based on his own abilities as well as his Zanpakuto though. Unlike Bykakuya, his soul slayer power will only be reallly deadly if it is used properly.

While it would probably be cooler to see him fight aclose range person, I think I see gin fighting Ishida, the both having a long range battle.

Ichimaru Gin n Tonic
February 12, 2007, 10:43 PM
Very interesting post poopoomaru!!It could be true!But 95% Ikorose Shinshou is Gin's initial release!Of course it is sure that his zanpakutou has more abilities to be shown and it has a BANKAI that shoould be BAD-ASS!
^agrees. that is a very interesting theory, poopoomaru! i'm smiling all the way while reading your post. :D

BigBadBuu
February 13, 2007, 03:41 AM
You guys are forgetting one big shounen-power-up way/method/whatever that KT offered us on a plate:

Hueco Mundo's higher reishi concentration.

All spiritual beings, there in HM, would get stronger-- not just hollows and quincy.

Assuming Aizen spent a significant amount of time in HM prior to the SS arch (which is a good assumption, considering his existing contact/relationship with both the Arrancar and Menos), it would explain why he was so impossibly powerful at the end of the SS arch.

This also explains why and how Tousen is now (apparently) so much stronger than he was in the SS arch-- not to metion Gin & Aizen.

-Buu

poopoomaru
February 13, 2007, 03:56 AM
You guys are forgetting one big shounen-power-up way/method/whatever that KT offered us on a plate:

Hueco Mundo's higher reishi concentration.

All spiritual beings, there in HM, would get stronger-- not just hollows and quincy.

Assuming Aizen spent a significant amount of time in HM prior to the SS arch (which is a good assumption, considering his existing contact/relationship with both the Arrancar and Menos), it would explain why he was so impossibly powerful at the end of the SS arch.

This also explains why and how Tousen is now (apparently) so much stronger than he was in the SS arch.

-Buu


This isnt the same though, that boost in power , as it is described, is temporary. It would not effect a shinigami , it effects Hollows and quincy because there is a high denisty of spirit particles. Hollows feed off of it , which is why little hollows can survive without having to eat human souls in HC, and Quincies use them for their arrows and other manipulations. Shinigami use neither. If anything a shinigami would gain more traction of spirit particles in the air and be able to float and move around better, if anything. I believe both Tousen and Gin were hiding their true powers in SS, or were in the process of mercilessy training themselves using some of the techinique Aizen likely used ( not all of them of course since Aizen wouldnt want anyone or thing challenging him).


You know what would be really really funny. Is if Gin betrays Aizen for big booby girl at some point. Aizen all like about to use his illusion power, and gin being like " You never wondered why I squinted my eyes all these years?! I HAVE NEVER LOOKED AT YOUR ZANAKUTO!!! *stabs Aizen in the chest* Well them lets go now Matsumoto * suggestive music plays*"

alekosss_kenpachi
February 13, 2007, 05:00 AM
This isnt the same though, that boost in power , as it is described, is temporary. It would not effect a shinigami , it effects Hollows and quincy because there is a high denisty of spirit particles. Hollows feed off of it , which is why little hollows can survive without having to eat human souls in HC, and Quincies use them for their arrows and other manipulations. Shinigami use neither. If anything a shinigami would gain more traction of spirit particles in the air and be able to float and move around better, if anything. I believe both Tousen and Gin were hiding their true powers in SS, or were in the process of mercilessy training themselves using some of the techinique Aizen likely used ( not all of them of course since Aizen wouldnt want anyone or thing challenging him).


You know what would be really really funny. Is if Gin betrays Aizen for big booby girl at some point. Aizen all like about to use his illusion power, and gin being like " You never wondered why I squinted my eyes all these years?! I HAVE NEVER LOOKED AT YOUR ZANAKUTO!!! *stabs Aizen in the chest* Well them lets go now Matsumoto * suggestive music plays*"
LOOOOOOOOL thats the reason Gin never opens his eyes!!ahhahahah!!*****
I am sure that Gin did not ever show us his true power...but Tousen never holded back when he was pawned by KenpachI!!!

I just remembered one thing about Tousen.In chapter 212 he opens a hole in the sky when he comes to take back Grimmjaw.Is not this an ability that only Hollows have?Does this mean Aizen has already used the Hogyokou already ??

BigBadBuu
February 13, 2007, 05:32 AM
@ poopoomaru

Shinigami are very much affected by the higher Reishi concentration-- Ishida even brought it up.

I'm assuming this will also play into any eventual storylines that take the crew into the King's Realm or even Hell.

This'd also explain why the senior captain-level characters seem, no *are*, so much more powerful than than the junior ones-- they've had alot more field experience in "exotic" locales.

-Buu

poopoomaru
February 14, 2007, 01:35 AM
@ poopoomaru

Shinigami are very much affected by the higher Reishi concentration-- Ishida even brought it up.

I'm assuming this will also play into any eventual storylines that take the crew into the King's Realm or even Hell.

This'd also explain why the senior captain-level characters seem, no *are*, so much more powerful than than the junior ones-- they've had alot more field experience in "exotic" locales.

-Buu


Even so, ( i am having a hard time finding the exact chapter where ishida makes the statement) the effect wouldnt be permanant so that wouldnt be a fair explanation of why Aizen is so powerful.

Levels of power between the senior and junior levels are all about presentation on Kubo's part, when really there is alot more to it them raw power. For instance, Uliquorra was very keen to mention that when Ichigo was attacking Yammy, Yammy could have avoided Ichigo's arm slicing attack , and could have put up much more of a fight if he had actually be intelligent about it. Little factors like that play a big part in fights and power.

In naruto discussions a major point has been brought up a while back about how Naruto is far level power level oriented then say DBZ , that is to say there is a stronger and a weaker and there is no exceptions or inbetween. Bleach I think is even less power level oriented then NAruto. In bleach fights often end up giving way to chance and the situation more so then they do actual power. So even more confusion happens about actual power and comparisons can be really hard.

alekosss_kenpachi
February 14, 2007, 06:28 AM
Even so, ( i am having a hard time finding the exact chapter where ishida makes the statement) the effect wouldnt be permanant so that wouldnt be a fair explanation of why Aizen is so powerful.

Levels of power between the senior and junior levels are all about presentation on Kubo's part, when really there is alot more to it them raw power. For instance, Uliquorra was very keen to mention that when Ichigo was attacking Yammy, Yammy could have avoided Ichigo's arm slicing attack , and could have put up much more of a fight if he had actually be intelligent about it. Little factors like that play a big part in fights and power.

In naruto discussions a major point has been brought up a while back about how Naruto is far level power level oriented then say DBZ , that is to say there is a stronger and a weaker and there is no exceptions or inbetween. Bleach I think is even less power level oriented then NAruto. In bleach fights often end up giving way to chance and the situation more so then they do actual power. So even more confusion happens about actual power and comparisons can be really hard.
Hmm i am not quite sure about this..but in bleach reiatsu usually is the critical factor in a fight!Yammi is an exception cause he is a DUMB!!Of course factors like kidou or experience always play a significant role.

As for Naruto i think that it is even less power level oriented than bleach..(IF by raw power u mean chackra) there are element manipulations where handicaps arise (fire and wind and so) and a single jutsu can many times win a match!For example Naruto has more chackra than Itachi but if Itachi casts a MS on him then we have a problem ..

cielorossas
February 14, 2007, 11:58 AM
i think that gin and tousen were made stronger by the incomplete hongoukyu because it still has some power in it even though it is not yet complete. there are arrancars right?

about gin's bankai.. i think it will be something like a thousand extending swords.. something like a hydra. haha..

just my two cents. :)

Navarr0Newton
February 14, 2007, 05:18 PM
ok a lil of topic butt..........
tousen is weak .dont you remember that aizen had 2 stop grimmjow from pawning him after he lost his arm.Also didnt tousen do the whole garganta thing so he may b a visored.also aizen is THE most powerful charater in Bleach so far.but what abut the thing that was behind all the menos wen the wen 2 hueco mundo.dontcha think that guy may be turned into a arrancar yet?

Now bac 2 Gin.
Gin`s znpakuto extends rite...so we know that it ha sumthin 2 do with his bankai.
if anyone watched kung fu hustle,i think his bankai will b similar 2 that.u know with like three hug spears that float around him the entire time he`s fighting and move 2 his hands at will.he miht even have a mask that looks like a kitsune (;P) lol.since he looks so much like a fox.
but seriously it ay just b a bunch of spears that he controls.or a huge spear wielding giant.

poopoomaru
February 14, 2007, 05:52 PM
Hmm i am not quite sure about this..but in bleach reiatsu usually is the critical factor in a fight!Yammi is an exception cause he is a DUMB!!Of course factors like kidou or experience always play a significant role.

As for Naruto i think that it is even less power level oriented than bleach..(IF by raw power u mean chackra) there are element manipulations where handicaps arise (fire and wind and so) and a single jutsu can many times win a match!For example Naruto has more chackra than Itachi but if Itachi casts a MS on him then we have a problem ..


I would have to disagree, Ichigo is currently about the only one who follows along this trend. In naruto you mentioned elements and advantages with how they clash. Your saying that there wont be advantages and disadvantages to the random Zanpakuto powers more so even then to reitsu level? Strange and quirky powers like making something heavier by hitting it , the power to hypnotize, changing the sword into a whip , the switch from single to double blade. Factors like play a huggge part to power, on par even with just raw power.

Lohnt
February 14, 2007, 11:14 PM
Gin's initial release is still more impressive and useful than Ichigo's; ergo it is an initial release.

You underestimate limitless "getting longer in a split second" as a power in an anime about "sword fighting"

Electric-Mind
February 15, 2007, 01:27 AM
It is true that his initial release is far more useful than Ichigo's, faster to react to. However many characters have proven in Bleach that it is not always about sword fighting. Many shikai and bankai completely lose the ability to fight like a sword. Therefore I would say Gin is limited because a growing sword would have no effect against say Rangiku. Then there is Kira who could render Gin completely useless if he hits his sword enough. His bankai might stand a better chance against those who's release is of a non-sword nature though.

conan
February 15, 2007, 05:45 AM
Gin's initial release is still more impressive and useful than Ichigo's; ergo it is an initial release.

You underestimate limitless "getting longer in a split second" as a power in an anime about "sword fighting"

somehow I agree with you, but dont forget that at shikai zangetsu releases getsuga tenshou, which is just like gin shooting his sword at you, but ichimaru does have the advantage of range mostly, and we've seen wierd shikai and bankai looking releases, its true that ichimaru's is very unusual but after seeing him fight with hitsugaya you have to admit to his skill, and that he would find a way to use his zanpakto in a skill ful manner, just like he did when he shot ichigo the first time they saw each other, he went very far back and released his zanpaktou, and won, so I guess even though its not as coll as an elemental zanpaktou its good in battle.

poopoomaru
February 16, 2007, 01:36 AM
Its all about how you use what you have. Gin's ability, just like any other person's, are different. What makes you powerful in combat when you have a very unorthodox attack that does not just flow into the natural rhythm ( Ichigo's getsuga tenshou , Chad's power blasts) is to move yourself and your opponent into a position that give yours ability the advantage. Gin showed he could do that when he fought Hitsugaya, he came dangerously close to killing him when he activated his power, and even went as far as to make it so that if if Hitsugaya dodged his attack that it would threaten the life of Aizen's vice captain. I doubt it was sheer luck that that was just how they both were postioned out of sheer chance. Gin's power might not seem so magnificient in the traditional sense but if he uses it the right way , which he has shown he does, then it can be as useful as any other power.

Yans86
September 16, 2008, 01:59 PM
Thinking about Gin,is really a big mistery,I mean...a super genoius ok,but why does he have all this blood lust from when he were a kid?I think he has no more 10-11 years old when he joined Aizen......
About his Zanpakotus...SHINSOU,God Spear......what if actually is an hint to the future,where he is going to be the one that kills the king?! Like many,I think that his bankai is going to be a Spear but with some elemental power(air) cause we had already fire,water\ice,wind and maybe something around thunder,storms or wind with Shunsui and Ukitake,who really fits with Raijin and Fujin......

Razh
September 16, 2008, 04:07 PM
It is true that his initial release is far more useful than Ichigo's, faster to react to. However many characters have proven in Bleach that it is not always about sword fighting. Many shikai and bankai completely lose the ability to fight like a sword. Therefore I would say Gin is limited because a growing sword would have no effect against say Rangiku. Then there is Kira who could render Gin completely useless if he hits his sword enough. His bankai might stand a better chance against those who's release is of a non-sword nature though.

I have a picture in my head. Gin extends his blade towards Rangiku, and to defend herself she... dissolves her blade into ash!?
Not quite clear on that.

She dissolves her Zanpakuto and he just stabs her/slices her up.

Eddy01741
September 16, 2008, 04:33 PM
We have no idea to his power since he's not had a full on fight. I would definitely say that he is more powerful than hitsugaya though, c'mon, gin was fighting basically without his shikai (well, his zanpakuto is one of the constantly released ones, except the whole point of his shikai is its special ability) until Hitsugaya got really serious with his shikai (had gin cornered via that claw thing from underneath his zanpakuto in shikai), then all gin does is activate his shikai ability once, which forces hitsugaya to retreat and would have killed momo had rangiku not been there.

I'm anxious to learn of the full extent of his abilities, especially his bankai, he certainly seems pretty damn powerful.

Basil Hawkins
September 16, 2008, 05:04 PM
OK,I'm a big fan of Gin,actually he is the only reason why I'm still reading bleach,but am I the only one who haven't read about the awesome Gin/Hitsugaya fight?The fight lasted like 8 panels IIRC.Nevertheless,is Gin the most awesome character in Bleach?Yes he is!

nordicbattlesigns
September 16, 2008, 06:08 PM
We have no idea to his power since he's not had a full on fight. I would definitely say that he is more powerful than hitsugaya though, c'mon, gin was fighting basically without his shikai (well, his zanpakuto is one of the constantly released ones, except the whole point of his shikai is its special ability) until Hitsugaya got really serious with his shikai (had gin cornered via that claw thing from underneath his zanpakuto in shikai), then all gin does is activate his shikai ability once, which forces hitsugaya to retreat and would have killed momo had rangiku not been there.

I'm anxious to learn of the full extent of his abilities, especially his bankai, he certainly seems pretty damn powerful.


Constantly released? Where did this fact suddenly come from? The only zanpakutou that have been acknowledged in the manga as existing in that constant release state are Zangetsu and Kenpachi's name-as-yet-unknown sword. Gin's Shinsou has a sealed state - specifically, an almost wazikashi styled sword - ergo, is NOT a constant release zanpakutou.

As to his bankai? It's not canonically established, but I believe one of the games featured this as being a whole wave of Shinsous down from the sky at the target, something like a rain of divine spears. Kaien's Nejibana was first featured released in one of the games, so it's a plausible one if certainly not definitive.

Eddy01741
September 16, 2008, 07:23 PM
Ah, i see, so it is similar to rangiku and byakuya's shikais (as in, once it is released, it takes on a totally different form), it's still unusual that it's so small though.

Tsukisama
September 16, 2008, 07:27 PM
Ah, i see, so it is similar to rangiku and byakuya's shikais (as in, once it is released, it takes on a totally different form), it's still unusual that it's so small though.

I don't think the size is very important. Urahara's zanpakutou's released form is not that big in comparison to its unreleased state. When Kensei releases his zanpakutou, it shrinks to being a combat knife. Each zanpakutou is different, and I am glad that they all aren't totally flashy transformations. At least Gin's zanpakutou has a fairly interesting ability.

kkck
September 16, 2008, 11:24 PM
Thinking about Gin,is really a big mistery,I mean...a super genoius ok,but why does he have all this blood lust from when he were a kid?I think he has no more 10-11 years old when he joined Aizen......
About his Zanpakotus...SHINSOU,God Spear......what if actually is an hint to the future,where he is going to be the one that kills the king?! Like many,I think that his bankai is going to be a Spear but with some elemental power(air) cause we had already fire,water\ice,wind and maybe something around thunder,storms or wind with Shunsui and Ukitake,who really fits with Raijin and Fujin......

Unfortunately this manga is very ambigous about how characters age. For example in the gaiden nanao was a little kid, even seemed younger than gin or hiyori, while in the present gin and nanao seem to be the same age and hiyori looks the same. For all we know gin coud have easily be over 100 years old in the gaiden lol.

ryanzokuken
September 17, 2008, 11:35 AM
seems like Gin can control, at least to some degree, the force/power at which the blade extends.

sometimes, its just kind of slow, gentle, like the blade grows. like when he aims to kill Rukia but Byakuya saves her and takes the blade.

at other times, like when he repels Ichigo and Jidanbo out the gate, the blade blasts into them with incredible force. it even seems to turn to a beam of white light, though i'm sure that's just the fancy animation making it look good, while his blade is still just a metal blade.

and then others it seems more in between, like the flashback where he and Aizen come to save the students.

Raizen
September 20, 2008, 12:42 AM
seems like Gin can control, at least to some degree, the force/power at which the blade extends.

sometimes, its just kind of slow, gentle, like the blade grows. like when he aims to kill Rukia but Byakuya saves her and takes the blade.

at other times, like when he repels Ichigo and Jidanbo out the gate, the blade blasts into them with incredible force. it even seems to turn to a beam of white light, though i'm sure that's just the fancy animation making it look good, while his blade is still just a metal blade.

and then others it seems more in between, like the flashback where he and Aizen come to save the students.
Byakuya needs to get revenge on gin for that cheap shot. lol

Yans86
July 25, 2009, 12:52 PM
Unfortunately this manga is very ambigous about how characters age. For example in the gaiden nanao was a little kid, even seemed younger than gin or hiyori, while in the present gin and nanao seem to be the same age and hiyori looks the same. For all we know gin coud have easily be over 100 years old in the gaiden lol.

Well not really,it looks like their grow get slower as they get older,and Gin/Nanao/Byakuya looks like spoiled brat around 5years old(nanao), 10/13 B/G,while Hiyori can be easily taken as a tenager 15/18.....

I'm thinking......what if Gin bankai use invisible wires to cut his enemies?!this would totally fit him..invisible,tricky and deadly.....

Still guess,who is going to fight.....I hope Shinji,but seeing him kick Old yama's ass it would be awesome!!

c420smokey
December 10, 2009, 02:45 PM
im sure this has been discussed numerous times but this is my reason, Gin comes off as a character like Itachi, seeming cold, scary and indifferent towards others he hurts, but I think when he first met Aizen he was sent there by the commander to earn his trust and to dispose of that nameless shinigami(who I think was a Aizen lackey) and he has been a double agent working with Soul Society secretly, one of the main reasons for him doing this is Rangiku(not sure if spelled correctly) to keep her safe or for some other reason for her. agree or disagree

conn-man
December 10, 2009, 03:02 PM
but..he cut hiyori in half..

Diablos
December 10, 2009, 03:51 PM
but..he cut hiyori in half..

Exactly XD, no comparison with Itachi there.

Edit: Althought if I would be for anyone betraying Aizen that would be him, he's the one that we never know what is going thru is mind.

Edit 2: LOL thinking more and more about it different stuff come to my mind, like vaizards are half hollows themselves, and cant remember exactly but enemies of soul society? Oo, so he could be one of those extremist justice appliers kakaka

Sinedd
December 10, 2009, 05:40 PM
Gin is probably the most mysterious character in Bleach. He was introduced early yet we know almost nothing about him, the extent of his shikai, his bankai or his specific reasons for following Aizen.

However, so far IMO Gin has showed to be egotistic and although serving under Aizen to operate with a certain independence, unlike Tousen, and a certain cruel and playful style solely to amuse himself.

While definitions such as good guy or bad guy are pretty vague, I would say Gin is character driven by selfish motives and despite serving Aizen is quite disobedient toward authority over him unlike Tousen.

c420smokey
December 10, 2009, 06:30 PM
yeah he cut her but she was attacking Aizen, what would have happened had he let her attack him, so maybe he thought the best recourse was to cut her and let her be healed later on, and as for itachi he massacred his entire brethren and even traumatized his little brother to the extent that he is now helping with a world war in his little universe, and as for him being selfish if my assumption is correct he is putting his life on the line, is gonna be forever known as a traitor and even traumatized his best friend/possible lover Rangiku, he has more to lose than anyone if im right, but if im wrong and he is a psycho that likes to do this kind of stuff, then dam, but to me he comes off as more of a good guy trying to be bad, because his true feelings show when he talks to or of the ones he cares about, like when he said goodbye to Rangiku and when he thought of kira.

conn-man
December 10, 2009, 06:42 PM
yeah he cut her but she was attacking Aizen, what would have happened had he let her attack him, so maybe he thought the best recourse was to cut her and let her be healed later on

but did he have to cut her in half? if he thought she could be healed later he would have just stabbed or slashed her, like a normal person.

Gran Maestro
December 10, 2009, 06:50 PM
I think when he first met Aizen he was sent there by the commander to earn his trust and to dispose of that nameless shinigami(who I think was a Aizen lackey) and he has been a double agent working with Soul Society secretly

And the commander had been letting Aizen commit all those atrocities instead of merely killing him? :blink

R4zr
December 10, 2009, 07:20 PM
I thought it was established long ago that Gin is just doing it all for the lulz.

Exodi
December 10, 2009, 10:47 PM
I thought it was established long ago that Gin is just doing it all for the lulz.

That's precisely what I think.

kkck
December 10, 2009, 11:00 PM
I am inclined to believe gin is more of the type to go along for the ride rather than being inherently bad or evil. He is definitely sick and twisted but I doubt he truly favors aizens view, once his amusement ends he will probably betray him IMHO>

poobert
December 11, 2009, 06:59 AM
I thought it was established long ago that Gin is just doing it all for the lulz.

Yup. I can agree to that.

That is why I like Gin. He doesn't have this justice thing going on like Tousen. He doesn't want to be God like Aizen. He is not full of himself like SS/Yama, he does not think he is the protector of peace or anything like the rest of the captains.

He is like Mayuri.

Although not as psycho.

Mifune_Taichou
December 11, 2009, 07:23 AM
I think I agree with this theory at least to an extent. There is something about Gin that doesn't quite make sense. I always, always thought he will betray Aizen for one reason or another. I hope I am right because he's a cool character and he could be a pretty good flawed hero.

As for hyori, true he didnt have to cut her in half but cmon, look me straight in the eye and tell ne you've never wanted to cut her in half. Besides as someone pointed out he might just despise the vaizards because they're part hollow.

Of course there is also the overwhealming possibility that he is just in it for the lulz

conn-man
December 11, 2009, 12:14 PM
this thread should just be turned into a gin discussion thread.

like some of you say, there is something else there and i dont think its to complicated. based on his apology to rangiku i would have to assume that gin knows right from wrong on some level but he seems to be a headcase non the less.

hes violent, sadistic, and likes to see people in pain, it seems like he thrives on all of these things because they may be all he is good at or at least thats how he preceives it. i would imagine that he has seen the way other people react to this kind of behavior, negativly of course, and that only makes him crazier. but then along comes aizen and he likes what he sees so he praises him which makes gin very happy and as a result on gins end they are creating quite a nice little bond, a father/son bond.

as far as the whole father/son thing goes in japan, its a pretty stong theme, undying loyalty, that sort of thing. so as a result, gin will follow aizen anywhere anytime doing what he does best for his father figure.

Yans86
December 11, 2009, 02:22 PM
this thread should just be turned into a gin discussion thread.
.

I agree....

Done! :amuse

What if Gin is from a noble familly fallen in decadence/destroyed by SS????what if he survived from some sort of massacre???If he suffered some major loss in the past an now he is a coldblood killer...(it's a clichè in manga.....TRIO: revenger for love's death,revenger for parent's death,someone that want be GOD)....one of the firs two will possibly betray or redeem himself,the latter loose/die a pitiful death,or after recognizing his mistakes...

Anyway,Gin arrancarizations and resurrecion will be Badass!!!what kind of mask can u imagine?

digitaldude
December 11, 2009, 02:23 PM
I agree....

What if Gin is from a noble familly fallen in decadence/destroyed by SS????what if he survived from some sort of massacre???If he suffered some major loss in the past an now he is a coldblood killer...(it's a clichè in manga.....TRIO: revenger for love's death,revenger for parent's death,someone that want be GOD)....one of the firs two will possibly betray or redeem himself,the latter loose/die a pitiful death,or after recognizing his mistakes...

Anyway,Gin arrancarizations and resurrecion will be Badass!!!what kind of mask can u imagine?
His mask will have a creepy smile for sure!

biron
December 11, 2009, 03:32 PM
His mask will have a creepy smile for sure!
no it will not
it will be something deadly serious i hope
the moment he shikaied hitsu was the only moment he was serious so i dont see how kubo can be so lame to continue with this idiotic smile till the end

poobert
December 11, 2009, 04:25 PM
no it will not
it will be something deadly serious i hope
the moment he shikaied hitsu was the only moment he was serious so i dont see how kubo can be so lame to continue with this idiotic smile till the end

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k91/Shuuda/img_insanity_kefka.jpg

This is my vision of Gin exactly. After Aizen dies, he is going to flip out and become even more of a psychopath. Instead of Aizen who you can count on for some things (predicting the winter war, Aizen's plans, his want of Karuka town etc) having my version of Gin as an enemy would be a nightmare. You never know when he will just show up in SS, kill everyone, sleep with Matsumoto, save the life of an entire squad against a hollow attack and then punch Yama in the face.

Richo
December 17, 2009, 02:16 PM
no it will not
it will be something deadly serious i hope
the moment he shikaied hitsu was the only moment he was serious so i dont see how kubo can be so lame to continue with this idiotic smile till the end

ìt'l probably be a guy fawkes mask:O

Yans86
January 17, 2010, 02:47 PM
Souce:BRADC:
Posted:BA

About Gin,we have to understand the power of the Kitsune: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsune or http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/oinari.shtml (Oinari: Fox Spirit), known for taking manifestation of almost anything you can name of, frankly he recently got onto the BB(reathless) Collection.

Yusa Kouji (Ichimaru Gin) character song from Zettai Karen Children Session 05: Hyoubu Kyousuke: God Breathless

ETA:

Kitsune are renowned tricksters. In many Japanese folk tales, the kitsune appears in the form of a bewitching woman who seduces and tricks unworthy men or rewards and protects deserving people. In human disguise, the she-fox can breed with a man. Fox folk can also cast illusions, appear in dreams, and read thoughts.

Pride~
February 23, 2010, 05:16 PM
Do you think that Gin has seen Kyoka Suigetsu? Is he under the influence of Aizen´s zanpakuto?

THM Nindo
February 23, 2010, 05:39 PM
Gin is certainly under Aizen's spell.
Aizen doesn't trust anyone, so he would make sure that even his subordinate are under it.

About his mask, it's going to be really interesting, and I guess he will keep his smile...
I wonder what kind of animal he will be though... pretty much everyone was related to an animal in the end...
What animal is always smiling? A hyena?

And regarding his shikai... it must be something better than just stretching his sword... because it's really basic and weak if that's all he can do...
I think his sword might be a cut-all... you know, like, he can cut everything (even trhough steel and through buildings, etc) with his sword...

kkck
February 23, 2010, 06:00 PM
I don't think gin's shikai would be weak at all if all it does is stretching. Depending on how he uses it it can be truly overly powerful lol.

Gran Maestro
February 23, 2010, 06:21 PM
Do you think that Gin has seen Kyoka Suigetsu? Is he under the influence of Aizen´s zanpakuto?

Logically, yes.

But we know he killed Barragan's hollow subordinates, if he's under hypnosis, how did he see something different than Barragan?

So either he's not under hypnosis or Aizen can cast different illusions on different people.

En Yang Ji
February 23, 2010, 06:34 PM
I don't think gin's shikai would be weak at all if all it does is stretching. Depending on how he uses it it can be truly overly powerful lol.
Gin's ability seemed bad at first, but after thinking about it for awhile it actually seems useful :tem .

Just with it as it is, Gin could have big advantage, in a sword fight by using his zanpakatou. All he would have to do is stretch it a little to make his opponent misjudge the distance, to fatallly injure his opponent . Or he could change his fighting style by changing the length of his sword. He could fight with a sword the size of a knife or a Nodachi.

JP_Russell
February 23, 2010, 07:08 PM
I wonder what kind of animal he will be though... pretty much everyone was related to an animal in the end...
What animal is always smiling? A hyena?

Plenty of them aren't animal-related. Ichigo, Hiyori, Shinji, Hachi, Love, Kensei, Lisa, and Tousen all had non-animal-related masks.

kkck
February 23, 2010, 07:23 PM
Gin's ability seemed bad at first, but after thinking about it for awhile it actually seems useful :tem .

Just with it as it is, Gin could have big advantage, in a sword fight by using his zanpakatou. All he would have to do is stretch it a little to make his opponent misjudge the distance, to fatallly injure his opponent . Or he could change his fighting style by changing the length of his sword. He could fight with a sword the size of a knife or a Nodachi.

Not just that but the actual attack power and speed of a stab or slash could be exponentially increased in a second. Say gin is shunpoing towards someone. That is a captain level stab right there but it would be severely more powerful if gin adds the speed at which his sword extents to his own. Have you ever noticed in a spinning wheel that the outer part of it actually spins faster than the middle of it? Under the same logic a slash while extended would result in gin severely increasing his slashing power. Imaging blocking a slash from the guy when the sword is 90 meters long -you'd get fucked up-.

Yans86
February 23, 2010, 07:32 PM
Actually Tousen has the cricket in his release....
The vizards are failure with only a mask and not a resurrecion form.
Ichigo is a total different story so it's hard to judge.....

IMO Gin release will be something Fox related,maybe a badass
version of Kurama Silver fox form or something related to the 9-tails...

En Yang Ji
February 23, 2010, 08:22 PM
Shunsui would be a really good opponent for Gin. Gin and Shunsui are both clever, prone to taking cheapshots, and all around good fighters according to the DB. With his shikai's ability, I think he would have an advantage in a normal sword fight too. IMO Shunsui wouldn't beat him easily, even without a mask.

JP_Russell
February 23, 2010, 08:25 PM
Actually Tousen has the cricket in his release....
The vizards are failure with only a mask and not a resurrecion form.

Ah, that's true, if you count the resurrecion then Tousen does have an animal-related hollowfication.

Aside from him, we only know of two others that are definitely animal-related, though (Rose and Mashirou).

DARK
February 24, 2010, 10:47 PM
I don't think gin's shikai would be weak at all if all it does is stretching. Depending on how he uses it it can be truly overly powerful lol.

Hey, Gin was able to do this (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/377/13/)with his Shikai.

Richo
February 25, 2010, 07:18 AM
Plenty of them aren't animal-related. Ichigo, Hiyori, Shinji, Hachi, Love, Kensei, Lisa, and Tousen all had non-animal-related masks.

ichigo his first full hollowfication is a lizard of some sort. and most hollow dont show any signs of animal traits in it. I only know of Grimjoww wich hollow form was a tiger.
and i thought tousen was more like a fly instead.

Yans86
February 27, 2010, 09:33 AM
I'd like Gin having a nine-tailes white release with two armored gloves(with clawes),wolverine style....that would be badass!

Xerneas
February 27, 2010, 11:32 AM
Yeah I imagine Gin having a Yoko Kurama resurreccion. Not so much the wolverine claws though, I think that will be Yoruichi's Shi Kai or something. She's gonna be like Lady Deathstrike. Anyway, Gin's Hollow form will be a lot more pleasant and refined than Kaname's, but still not at the level of Ichigo/Aizen. I have a theory that the base power of the Shinigami determines what their resurreccion looks like. As someone said, Ichigo started off as a lizard (Adjucha-like form), then he went to HM and got way stronger. Next time his res looked like a Vasto Lorde. I imagine Aizen's will be something similar. And if Yama wasn't so strict, his potential res would be too (Yamanator would make Bleachverse implode).

Yans86
March 18, 2010, 04:05 PM
Ahahaha Yamanator sound cool!!!the blazing arrancar :-D....unfortunately u should give him the sokyouku weapon to make more damage...1million fire zanpakotou power!!!
It looked to me that Ichigo lizard's form was him turning hollow and not a resurrection anyway...weak enough for the vizard to barely use shikai...
[hr]
Do you guys think that Gin was hollowified???

kkck
March 18, 2010, 04:28 PM
Ahahaha Yamanator sound cool!!!the blazing arrancar :-D....unfortunately u should give him the sokyouku weapon to make more damage...1million fire zanpakotou power!!!
It looked to me that Ichigo lizard's form was him turning hollow and not a resurrection anyway...weak enough for the vizard to barely use shikai...
<hr noshade size="1">
Do you guys think that Gin was hollowified???

I don't think gin has been hollowified. He has not even shown bankai so there definitely is room for the guy to have development without showing hollowification. Only way I could see the guy having hollowification is that it is similar to that of ichigo and the vizards in that it only comes with a mask but retains traits like shikai and bankai.

As for ichigo's hollowification, it cannot plausibly be further from resurreccion. It is absurd to even call any of ichigo's hollow forms that. Resurreccion is specifically a type of sword release, an equivalent to what shinigami do with their own zampakuto. Ichigo's hollow forms are not a sword release so logically it is not resurreccion. There are similarities between the two but simply due to the hollow form not being related to ichigo's sword releases it is evident enough it is not a resurreccion.

Eddy01741
March 18, 2010, 04:31 PM
Tough call.

Tousen, Aizen's other shinigami counterpart was hollowified, but Tousen doesn't serve the same role as Gin I'd say. Tousen is more of like... a servant to Aizen, he serves Aizen so Aizen will grant him power (thus he was hollowified). Tousen also speaks to Aizen as if he is like... god, and uses -sama after every time he says Aizen's name.

Gin on the other hand is more like... a protege of Aizen, except not even that, since it's not even like a master to student relationship, it's even more casual than such. Gin's obviously a lot younger than Aizen as when Aizen was an adult, Gin was Hitsugaya's age, so it does make sense that he's Aizen's right hand man, as Aizen raised Gin the way he saw fit. And gin does recognize how powerful Aizen is (his monologue about how Aizen isn't powerful because of KS, he is simply powerful), but he still regards him as a friend, not a master. I mean, he doesn't dispute Aizen's power on the throne of Las Noches, yet he doesn't directly serve under him, it's a weird relationship indeed.

So I'm not sure if Gin is hollowified, it's logical that Aizen would hollowify Tousen before Gin, but that doesn't mean Gin wasn't also hollowified. In the end I don't think that Gin has yet been hollowified, but that's just my opinion and is more or less completely baseless.

Yans86
May 27, 2010, 07:51 AM
Gin was unpredictable and sick in the past,now he is even more unpredictable...not saying that Matsumoto an Kira can't physically do s**t at the moment and Ichigo is just "too weak" for him...
At this point of the story we still don't have clues about him and even imagine his actions in the next 2 chapters is just impossible....which is nice :-D

At this point,bleach without Gin would just became a manga with people just fighting and fighting and fightig with no thrills....
Gin is definetely the mos thrilling character of the manga,followed by...Urahara,Unohana and Mayuri...sick bastards :-D

El Samurai Guapo
May 28, 2010, 12:03 AM
Gin was unpredictable and sick in the past,now he is even more unpredictable...not saying that Matsumoto an Kira can't physically do s**t at the moment and Ichigo is just "too weak" for him...
At this point of the story we still don't have clues about him and even imagine his actions in the next 2 chapters is just impossible....which is nice :-D

At this point,bleach without Gin would just became a manga with people just fighting and fighting and fightig with no thrills....
Gin is definetely the mos thrilling character of the manga,followed by...Urahara,Unohana and Mayuri...sick bastards :-D

It's funny, I didn't care too much for Gin back in the SS arc, especially after he taunted Rukia on that bridge. Gin has slowly grown on me though, he is a pretty cool character and bleach wouldn't be the same without him.

Power wise he is amongst the strongest in Bleach. He took a getsuga tenshou to the face and all it did was scratch his forehead, and he has easily outclassed Ichigo with his mask. Kami shini no yari is probably my second favorite bankai so far.

Random101
May 28, 2010, 12:14 AM
Outclassing Ichigo with mask is like standard at this point. Mostly because his mask doesn't last anywhere near as long anymore. While I wouldn't say he's weak, he's a LONG way from being among the top dogs of this series.

El Samurai Guapo
May 28, 2010, 12:18 AM
Outclassing Ichigo with mask is like standard at this point. Mostly because his mask doesn't last anywhere near as long anymore. While I wouldn't say he's weak, he's a LONG way from being among the top dogs of this series.

If by "top dogs" you mean Gin, Kisuke, Aizen, Yoruichi, Isshin, Shinji, Love, Rose, Kensei, Tessai, and Hachi, then yeah I agree. Ichigo is a long way from them.

Random101
May 28, 2010, 12:35 AM
No, that last bit I was talking about Gin. My fault for not clarifying. Ichigo's weak until the plot suddenly demands him to be strong again. Usually through either random resolve he should have had in the first place, or with a new form of some sort. At least since the HM arc. >>

Kaiten
May 28, 2010, 11:48 AM
It's funny, I didn't care too much for Gin back in the SS arc, especially after he taunted Rukia on that bridge. Gin has slowly grown on me though, he is a pretty cool character and bleach wouldn't be the same without him.

Power wise he is amongst the strongest in Bleach. He took a getsuga tenshou to the face and all it did was scratch his forehead, and he has easily outclassed Ichigo with his mask. Kami shini no yari is probably my second favorite bankai so far.

That speech made me like him more. After taunting Rukia he was confirmed as Bleach's Hannibal Lecter or Joker: the villain who is as interesting as the good guys. He's a fun character. Of all the villains he seems to have the least reason to be evil, he seems like a sociopath who is evil for the sake of it. Aizen wants to be god, Tousen wanted revenge, Gin just seems to enjoy being vile.

shaheer
May 28, 2010, 12:00 PM
Gin is a guy with seemingly no ulterior motives... Tosen had some messed up sense of justice and Aizen is the Bad guy gin seems to be around because its more fun...or there is more to him than we can pinpoint.. Gin seemed totally clue less to me back then but after TBTH seeing Gin that kind of Genius (sth like Hitsu) nothing is certain abt him atm

osking
June 07, 2010, 08:47 AM
Could Gin possibly be in the 0 Squad? It seems like he and Aizen are not really partners like it seemed at first. In the latest chapters, ever since Ichigo went to fight Gin its like Aizen has begun to suspect Gin is up to something, like he wants him to release his Ichigonator form, and obviously Aizen knows he's deadmeat unless he uses Hogyoku to desire what Ichigo is. But now I'm thinking Genryusai contacted 0 Squad before he left to FKT to let them handle Aizen if G13 failed their mission. Not only that but how it relates to Gin is:

1. His Bankai, no need to further explain
2. Said to be a prodigy, and judging by how people held Hitsugaya's potential (even Shunsui said he could possibly surpass him in the next 100 years) and also by how easily a sealed Gin handled a shikai Hitsugaya.
3. Aizen doesn't have "that look" unless something is seriously up, and he's displayed "that look" multiple times at Gin
5. Rangiku. Maybe she will tell Ichigo/Isshin what Gin is from 0 Squad and let them know that 0 Squad could be in SS waiting for Aizen
5. Come on now, he's a mystery person!

So could Gin really be of 0 Squad?

Pigov
June 07, 2010, 11:27 AM
Interessting theory , but i doubt that .
Zero squad is way to mysterios and even the higher ups in the gotei ( kyo , uki ) didnt seem to have much knowledge about them . So its very unlikly that gin has been in there BEFORE he became aizens 3rd seat . ( They wont hire children , even though they are prodigys , seems more like you have to be very experienced in the gotei 13 to get an offer from them )

And there is no chance at all that he could became a spy afterwards . If so : why didnt the royal ones bother to step in before ? If gin would be a spy , he could have informed then 100 years ago about his sinister plans , so no need to let things get out of hand .

Hystzen
June 07, 2010, 11:58 AM
i think Gin is a good guy not a member of squad 0 as been said above he was young when aizen got hold of him...but i still think the fight with Gin n 3rd seat was set up by yamma or shinji or urahara to test aizen.

Sharigan-User
June 07, 2010, 01:28 PM
Gin is something because everyone only focused on Aizen and Shinji made that comment to Gin when he thought they had beaten Aizen. Gin remains a mystery, but he certainly isn't a member of 0 Squad.

freshseth83
June 07, 2010, 06:18 PM
Royal guard are RETIRED or PROMOTED Captains, not child prodigies (Gin, Hitsugaya, Kaien).

Gin is a normal captain with a 'fast' bankai, nothing special about him. And nothing close to being promoted to 0 squad.

Eddy01741
June 07, 2010, 08:47 PM
Well, the premise was that Gin is a double agent for zero squad. IE, he's part of zero squad, infiltrated Aizen's posse by being a child prodigy, and then remained in the G13 as a cohort of Aizen.

It's possible, but I don't think it would be zero squad.

He may turn out good in the end, especially with the latest chapter when Gin was almost motioning to kill Ichigo. As aizen questioned what Gin was going to do and Gin lied about it. However, I don't think it's zero squad.

osking
June 08, 2010, 11:31 AM
I just think that Gin is in some way related to them, like he could be secretly working for them or a double agent like Eddy said. Gin doesnt seem like a bad guy, never did. One things for sure though he's hiding something and its got something to do with him not wanting Aizen to gain Ichigo's power. If that's true then Gin is too late in stopping Aizen...

sindergi
June 08, 2010, 12:23 PM
I just think that Gin is in some way related to them, like he could be secretly working for them or a double agent like Eddy said. Gin doesnt seem like a bad guy, never did. One things for sure though he's hiding something and its got something to do with him not wanting Aizen to gain Ichigo's power. If that's true then Gin is too late in stopping Aizen...


I think hiyori would not agree with that statement.
Cutting someone in half is not bad.....??:blink

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/377/13/

Hystzen
June 08, 2010, 01:27 PM
I think hiyori would not agree with that statement.
Cutting someone in half is not bad.....??:blink

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/377/13/

hiroyi is a outcast she is a enemy of the SS so yes he did the SS a favour pluss she is soooo damn annoying not as much as omedea tho.

thornofcarrion
June 08, 2010, 01:31 PM
Considering Aizen's personality' I doubt he'd ever let a spy be his subordinate. But seeing how Aizen is wary of his actions and the way he addresses him, may be he let Gin accompany him for some plans. Its a far fetched idea, one I am not too optimistic about.

DEATHBOTT
June 10, 2010, 01:49 AM
gin is on a mission for someone who knows the origin of aizan. dont know who or for what reason. his appearance as a child is just to strange.

ryanzokuken
June 10, 2010, 02:00 AM
i agree that there is certainly some real character development and more than likely a twist coming for Gin Ichimaru.

whether he is really a good guy or not, i won't speculate. however, there are certainly some changes happening within the dynamic between he and Aizen recently. mostly, it seems, due to Aizen's progression and his changing approach to things. with his new found success and power, he's more reckless, more arrogant (who'd have thought it possible?), less careful, and less in need of anybody's aid.

everybody keeps talking about how they think Gin will have a hand in Aizen's death, but as much as i hate to say it, i feel like Aizen may kill Gin. and soon. this last chapter really showed how things seem to be getting a little tense between them.


Gin seemed a bit put off before about Aizen having fused with the hougyoku without his not being clued in about it.

Aizen seemed briefly displeased with what Gin was or was not doing with Ichigo.

and finally, their exchanges in the precipice world regarding Aizen's childlike recklessness regarding the koutotsu (Gin almost seemed pleading and/or disappointed as he said that last "captain Aizen"), and the one they had in Karakura regarding where they arrived. Aizen admitted that Gin was right about whose fault it may have been, but just the looks and attitude he's giving Gin, and Gin's balls to speak up to him...it feels like Aizen may become annoyed and do something about it.

it's very interesting. you can really feel the tension. but i worry for Gin. he's a sinister bastard, but i can't help but like him.

GomuGomu_Getsuga
June 10, 2010, 02:07 AM
Gin has everything planned out. I hope he survives after Aizen is killed by a Father-Son Shin Getsuga Tensho

hollowdemon
June 15, 2010, 12:06 PM
wow all this time there was this thread? awesome

well the whole double-agent and being part of the 0 squad doesn't seem too farfetched actually since hes been completely unknown to the readers regarding his plans, how come he can't be involved?
For all we know no one is aware of this other than himself and the group he's plotting with (if there is one).

Double-agent? i say why not, let it happen :D

osking
June 15, 2010, 12:29 PM
I wonder which will happen first.

A) Condom King kills Gin for not addressing him by his new title
B) Gin somehow plays a hand in the defeat of Condom King and unwrapping his past [no pun].

Bowser
June 15, 2010, 12:31 PM
Another bastard with odd motives and has planned a lot but won't be able to outsmart Aizen and will die somehow.

Could be a double agent but would be exceptionally hard to pull off, if not impossible...so possibly good but it would turn out somehow like him trying to kill Aizen, but he was also under the influence of KS from the very start (ha!) and Gin pwned. :(

tonyyao82
September 30, 2010, 03:27 PM
Hey everyone, for those who read my Ulquiorra, I recently did another entry based on the snake himself, Gin Ichimaru. You can read it at:

http://www.mangatherapy.com/post/1210313974/gin-ichimaru-relationships

Comments? Thoughts?

Eddy01741
September 30, 2010, 08:27 PM
Makes me respect Gin's character more. He's definitely one of those the ends (killing aizen) justify the means (being Aizen's right hand man) kind of people I guess.


I just want to see his bankai in action now. Regardless of the fact that it can't extend as far or as fast as originally stated, it's still really fast, and plus if he hits you anywhere center mass you're dead.

tonyyao82
September 30, 2010, 10:01 PM
Thank you for reading! Yeah. The ends REALLY justify the means in his case. I think him and Ulquiorra were the two most compelling characters in BLEACH.

His bankai would be interesting to see in action.

elitefox
October 04, 2010, 04:16 AM
Still more intriguing than ichigo :D

I love his jokes or was it tend to be a joke

thornofcarrion
October 04, 2010, 06:22 AM
Gin no doubt is a very intriguing character. But I think he may not be the same anymore. The reason being, he looked intriguing and mysterious when he was with Aizen. Most of us were guessing, most of us were hoping, most of us wanted Gin to be a good guy or a double agent. It was mostly this expectation or anticipation that we were more intrigued with his character. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying his character is not interesting, but the mysterious aura fused with anticipation made it even more interesting.

Now we know what his motives were, so as a character he may not hold the same charm as he once held. Still I am sure, if Kubo wants to, he can make Gin epic again and I would love to see that. Aizen vs. Gin at full force (without Hogyoku) would have been a marvelous encounter.