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Immo
May 14, 2010, 01:42 AM
So here we can discuss about Sabo as future possible character. I personally don't belive he is dead but ofc I can be wrong. What if Ace betrayed his and Sabo's dream about becoming pirates by sacrificing treasure they got for for example saving Luffy's life? Sabo then left mountain bandits and wanted revenge on Ace and Luffy and became Marine. Later on he ate Brain Brain fruit or Time Time fruit and got knowledge of doctors living 500 years in the future, gave himself nickname Vegapunk and became marine's main brain power. Crazy theory I know.

skullshuriken734
May 15, 2010, 02:24 AM
Well first off, what do we know about Sabo?
not much just that he is aces age, uses a stick, and has a dream (to be a pirate)
did he start his own journey away from ace and luffy? or did he join ace on his?
or the all important question is he dead?
I am very curious to see what happens next chapter with the tenryubito
i believe we can get a good idea of what happens with sabo then
my theory:

Sabo is enslaved while trying to steal more money
Luffy and crew (in the near future)see a tenryubito holding an older sabo in chains
Luffy Rescues Sabo vowing to save him this time and that he will not fail him as he did ace
later he asks sabo to join and fulfills his comrades dream of becoming a pirate

OdaForPresident
May 15, 2010, 05:08 AM
I really doubt that Sabo=Vegapunk, from Franky's side story we know that vegapunk grew up in future island, this pretty much rules out sabo as vegapunk.

My guess is that sabo dies in whatever tenryubito/pirate incident is coming up.

BlackHair
May 16, 2010, 03:48 AM
For me Sabo is dead until said otherwise. Seriously I don't want add another character on the waiting list. Im already dying to see Dragon and the remaining Yonko. Not to mention the fighting styles of several character like Garp, Flamingo, Roger etc.

Liger X
May 16, 2010, 09:51 PM
Judging from the tense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_tense) and case of the writing, I believe that Sabo, the character, actually had passed before the current "present."

574; 10 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/574/10/)


http://img-a.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000296502/10.jpg

Here are several quotes of this page, from different translations:
"If it weren't for the Sabo incident and a troublesome brother like you, I probably would not have wanted to live...."
"Ace: I'm sorry about **** (SABO). If you weren't there, I don't think I would have wanted to live."
"Ace: Yeah... if it wasn't for that incident with Sabo, and a troublesome brother like you... I wouldn't have wanted to live in the first place...."
"Ace: ...Yeah... you know... if it weren't for the Sabo thing... and having a little brother like you to look out for... // ...I would never have... even... wanted to live..."
Each and every one seems to suggest that this "Sabo-thing" had been a past tense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_tense) event/ person/ etc.

This means, the whole entire thing happened in the past, however, when further understanding is brought forth, the characterization of Ace suggests that he had to have been influenced to live from this.

We know that Sabo is currently aspiring to become a pirate, and he is trying to be a pirate alongside Ace... We know that Luffy and Ace don't have the great brotherly bond that they were shown to have during the flashbacks when the Marineford arc was being played.

All that we know about Sabo, and what happened, suggests that Sabo had been killed, and Ace would then have a meaning to live, as well as become overly worried of Luffy's character-- and be overprotective as well.

How he may have passed, however, is up to assumptions and speculations; possibly becoming a victim of the Tenryuubito, the victim of Bluejam Pirate Crew, or even passed in a different way. Although it seems pretty safe to assume that Sabo is no longer alive to this day, otherwise, Ace would have said something about him, or at least mentioned that Luffy ought to inform Sabo, like he told Luffy to inform Dadan.

Seriously, my final thoughts are that Sabo is deceased and will either die next week, or the week after during the flashback!

Click here for the second part!! (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1920491&postcount=12)


My Writing Experience:
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Rules to Debate:
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Lastly, have fun and keep it passionate-- remember: always use concise grammar and punctuation if you want to get that point of yours across, better!Personal:
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P.S. I do love the Liger Zero, especially the "X" model!!

johnnyb7
May 17, 2010, 03:18 PM
My guess is that Luffy, Ace and Sabo will all enrage the Tenrybiuto, they will hunt them down, and Sabo will give his life to protect Luffy and Ace, telling them to become great pirates since he can't.

Uriel
May 17, 2010, 03:24 PM
My guess is that Sabo will die protecting Ace. And then we see the second death of many to see.

johnnyb7
May 17, 2010, 03:59 PM
My guess is that Sabo will die protecting Ace. And then we see the second death of many to see.

We saw Jaguar D. Saul Die. And also it would be the fourth, Saul, Ace, Whitebeard and then Sabo

Doom Crow
May 19, 2010, 11:49 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility of Sabo being Donquixote Doflamingo? Sabo's views on the world seem to be quickly resembling something that could evolve into Flamingo's current ideology, based on what has happened to Sabo in his childhood.

bittman
May 20, 2010, 01:21 AM
Proven wrong about twenty times Doom Crow with the following lovely Chapter 0:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/14/

Still, nothing to say there isn't a connection between them, just that Sabo is not Doflamingo.

panasit
May 22, 2010, 06:23 AM
Sabo's story seem to reflect that of a typical Japanese kid. His parents expect to study hard and argue with each other about his performance. His dream of writing a book doesn't get pass on to anyone. I think he is still alive.

Liger X
May 22, 2010, 10:44 AM
Continuation from Sabo's Fate... Post #1 (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1914879&postcount=5)

This is a continuation of my original post on here, another clue to foreshadow that Sabo is indeed dead: Post 7996 - APForums, Aohige. (http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1632992&postcount=7996)

This is talking about this page (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/13/) in the second panel... The wording does suggest that Sabo isn't either a brother in this world, alive, or something totally different.

Could it mean that we're heading to SPACE!?!?! Probably not, however, it ought to establish more unwavering support that Sabo is indeed deceased.


My Writing Experience:
I love keeping my font consistent, and implying an organized, coherent order to anything I do. Whether it is a small comment, or an enormous thesis on something-- I will always do it with my original style.
Rules to Debate:
Avoid the use of the following adverbs: always and never.
Avoid the saying "you are wrong," and substitute something of equal value; "your idea holds error."
Do not present an opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion) as a fact (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact); make this a fiction (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fiction), please!
Always, if applicable, cite the source you are discussing-- even if you don't need to!
Never oppose truths (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/truths), albeit they happen to be true!
Remain calm and composed; fighting will only ruin what debate may exist!
Attack only the idea, and never the person that presents that idea.
Lastly, have fun and keep it passionate-- remember: always use concise grammar and punctuation if you want to get that point of yours across, better!Personal:
I don't reveal anything concerning myself; I'm findable!!
I don't discuss my personal life; I'm shy.
I don't expect, or wish, for yours either!!
Don't make me mad; I'm caustic!
Anime/ Manga isn't my life; it's just a hobby! Don't expect me to always be right; I'm a human being!Thank you for taking the time to read this, now: obey it when you address me..!!

P.S. I do love the Liger Zero, especially the "X" model!!

Uriel
May 22, 2010, 01:33 PM
We saw Jaguar D. Saul Die. And also it would be the fourth, Saul, Ace, Whitebeard and then Sabo
Ok, ok. I completely forgot xD

And well, seems that Sabo dies. Sad, I might say, but it adds the sad story of the past common in Strawhats.

Wrath
May 22, 2010, 02:09 PM
I don't think we can really take the very vague reference to Sabo to definitely mean any one thing. Oda was deliberately trying not to give away the story we're enjoying now.

I won't say that we can truly predict what happens in OP, but to me I don't think there's anything to gain by killing Sabo. Ace just died. Introducing Sabo and then killing him off immediately can't come close to the power of Ace's death.

Smit
May 27, 2010, 02:45 AM
Grasping for straws here but could this guy be Sabo? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/546/01/
If Sabo grew his hair would it look like that? And the face is concealed maybe for a reason. I for one really hope its him.
But like i said grasping here.

Akainu
May 27, 2010, 03:15 AM
Since this is one of the high risk threads, I figured I should repeat the rules here for you:
within 48 hours of the release of a chapter, discussion about its content is to be limited to its own chapter thread.
Please respect this and give people some time to read the chapter. If you want to know the exact time you can start discussion outside, please check the first post of the chapter discussion.

RichardMNixon
May 28, 2010, 11:16 AM
Hold the phone. He said the Sabo thing made him want to live - but his will to live was also past tense. What if that was his will to live before Luffy showed up? What if having Sabo as a friend and collecting their pirate treasure was that "Sabo thing," and that's what kept Ace going while he was < 10? It might have nothing to do with Sabo events thereafter.

Ustegius
May 29, 2010, 03:22 PM
Depends on how this flashback ends, but if he is alive he's a good guess. Flashback, dream, distinct style. All we are missing is the comic relief habit.

chess4
May 29, 2010, 04:13 PM
Depends on how this flashback ends, but if he is alive he's a good guess. Flashback, dream, distinct style. All we are missing is the comic relief habit.


yeah i feel you, but robin doesnt have one. if we go by that then boa would be a better candidate. i guess things will become clearer when the flashback is over and we see if sabo lived or not

Lord Rayleigh
May 29, 2010, 04:15 PM
Depends on how this flashback ends, but if he is alive he's a good guess. Flashback, dream, distinct style. All we are missing is the comic relief habit.
Ace has just died and Luffy is crying, there is absolutely no reason for comic relief in this flashback.

Rainier
May 29, 2010, 04:32 PM
He's not talking about the flashback, but about the character. And there has been a lot of comic relief in the the flashback, just check out any scene where Luffy appears

Ustegius
May 30, 2010, 03:07 AM
Yeah, what I meant is that this far Sabo lacks the funny eccentric habbit every Strawhat has (stupidity, total lack of homing instinct, abslute weakness to beutifull girls, greed etc.)
[hr]

yeah i feel you, but robin doesnt have one.

Grimm jokes?

Though we learned about that one after she joined. And also We had no idea about Zoro's personal problems before he joined.

The Noobslayer
May 30, 2010, 04:16 AM
Grasping for straws here but could this guy be Sabo? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/546/01/
If Sabo grew his hair would it look like that? And the face is concealed maybe for a reason. I for one really hope its him.
But like i said grasping here.

You know what, this is a credible guess. This cover appeared just before Sabo was mentioned, and a bit before where we are now.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/586/04/

You can see that Sabo seems to have fluffy hair, and would match the Revolutionary Leader's hair on that cover if he grew it out.

Also note that the guy is a Revolutionary Leader, we just learned that Sabo met THE leader of the revolution. It would make sense for Dragon teach him about the movement or for Sabo to be inspired by him.

Lastly, the hat the guy is wearing is a Bowler hat, while it isnt a top hat that Sabo wears, resembles it greatly.

All in all, there is a reasonable amount of possibility Sabo can be that Revolutionary leader.

Ustegius
May 30, 2010, 06:20 AM
Yeah, I also instantly thought back to Robin's story when we saw Sabo meeting Dragon. Could be plausible, but the nose just doesn't match.

kkck
May 31, 2010, 08:57 AM
^Well, a nose could change quite a bit over 10 years. I don't think sabo would give up his dream of being a pirate though.

THM Nindo
May 31, 2010, 10:57 AM
IF he's alive, what do you think that Sabo's powers will be?!
Will he have a DF?
Will he have a different way of fighting?

I doubt that he will still be fighting with lead pipes :tem

chess4
May 31, 2010, 11:33 AM
IF he's alive, what do you think that Sabo's powers will be?!
Will he have a DF?
Will he have a different way of fighting?

I doubt that he will still be fighting with lead pipes :tem

maybe he has a weapon that has a fruit. from what we saw in the flashback, he usually carries a staff, so maybe he has a staff that ate a zoan fruit like a rhino or tiger

Uriel
May 31, 2010, 01:33 PM
Yeah, I also instantly thought back to Robin's story when we saw Sabo meeting Dragon. Could be plausible, but the nose just doesn't match.
I did think of him too as soon as I saw Dragon. I think we all did, actually XD

And as I see, it's the same nos0:. Pointy. That break on the top could be easily hidden by the hat/googles or be just the expression of being "angry" or "nervous". It's uncertain at this point anyway.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/UrielCZ/Noses.png

I think it's very likely to be him, but only because I'm biased wanting him to become the next Mugiwara. He is kinda awesome.

chess4
May 31, 2010, 02:07 PM
I did think of him too as soon as I saw Dragon. I think we all did, actually XD

And as I see, it's the same nos0:. Pointy. That break on the top could be easily hidden by the hat/googles or be just the expression of being "angry" or "nervous". It's uncertain at this point anyway.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/UrielCZ/Noses.png

I think it's very likely to be him, but only because I'm biased wanting him to become the next Mugiwara. He is kinda awesome.

i like him 2........... i hope he does join the strawhats. robin is 6"2', so the guy she is talking to is about 6"7'.

THM Nindo
May 31, 2010, 02:39 PM
I'm sold!
This guy MUST be Sabo!

He's so cool!
I want him to be Sabo!!

Or... if he's not Sabo, at least, I hope we'll see him again in the story! :tem

kkck
May 31, 2010, 06:39 PM
Wouldn't it be kinda cheap if sabo is alive? I mean, sabo is just as much as a brother to luffy as ace was, I'd feel a tad cheated if ace was killed only so that another super powerful brother could appear.

THM Nindo
June 01, 2010, 12:02 AM
Wouldn't it be kinda cheap if sabo is alive? I mean, sabo is just as much as a brother to luffy as ace was, I'd feel a tad cheated if ace was killed only so that another super powerful brother could appear.

I don't think Sabo will be a huber-strong character.
I think he will be Sanji/Zoro level, but not Ace-level.

And it's not cheap...
I mean... Luffy want to avenge Ace, and he could find help with Sabo and the RA.

Uriel
June 01, 2010, 05:07 AM
Wouldn't it be kinda cheap if sabo is alive? I mean, sabo is just as much as a brother to luffy as ace was, I'd feel a tad cheated if ace was killed only so that another super powerful brother could appear.
Ace was mostly powerful because He's DF, I'm quite sure that Sabo will be more balanced IF it's alive.

kkck
June 01, 2010, 05:39 AM
Sabo should still be quite stronger than luffy though. In the flashback he is of about ace strength and assuming he is in the RA then he has been fighting for much longer than luffy. I also doubt ace was strong just because of his DF... he would not be a big deal if that was the case. Obviously he would not be the same without his DF but I do think he would have had quite some strength without it.

Ustegius
June 01, 2010, 07:16 AM
Hmm, do I correctly remeber Luffy referring to Ace as his only and one brother at some point? Atleast on a other board somene said something along those lines, though I have yet to confirm it.

That would mean Sabo is dead, or Luffy thinks he is dead.

Arkadi
June 01, 2010, 07:51 AM
well u guys should try thinking further ahead..
luffy indeed does think sabo's dead or gone,
and Oda probably made him say that line so we all would discuss this matter..
if u'd ask me i'd probably say Sabo's still alive..
even his name has a ring to it..
Sabo- Luffy - Ace

theyre names are pretty unique

but my question is; what kind of person would sabo be this days?

hossice
June 01, 2010, 08:03 AM
I'm pretty sure oda will be all "i've drawn him before"
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/One-Piece/Null/440/10

and so we might have seen him here, and only here.

chess4
June 01, 2010, 09:23 AM
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/One-Piece/Null/440/10
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/546/01/

at hossice......good catch.

if you look at both pictures......the guy with the feather in the hat is definitely the same person. i hope its sabo. oda has done this often with characters. he has made characters that would be relevant in future arcs background characters, like rayleigh, marco, and jozu. so maybe this is another one.

Lord Rayleigh
June 01, 2010, 10:42 AM
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/One-Piece/Null/440/10
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/546/01/

at hossice......good catch.

if you look at both pictures......the guy with the feather in the hat is definitely the same person. i hope its sabo. oda has done this often with characters. he has made characters that would be relevant in future arcs background characters, like rayleigh, marco, and jozu. so maybe this is another one.

It's the same for the smoking guy. The first time he's got Luffy's bounty and he is talking to Dragon, and the second time, he is next to Robin shooting a guard. Please notice he shaved his beard.

All that means that we will see them with their names when the RA arc will come.

zagorka
June 01, 2010, 11:15 AM
Grasping for straws here but could this guy be Sabo? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/546/01/
If Sabo grew his hair would it look like that? And the face is concealed maybe for a reason. I for one really hope its him.
But like i said grasping here.

I thought about it as well, but the guy looks like he has a birth mark above his mouth, so I'm saying no on this one.

Uriel
June 02, 2010, 06:04 AM
All that means that we will see them with their names when the RA arc will come.
Of course, but wild speculation always bring more satisfactions. :D

THM Nindo
June 06, 2010, 10:53 PM
Well... seems like he left alone, so he might not be that guy from the RA in the end...
That sucks... I'd have like him if it would have been him!

kkck
June 07, 2010, 04:09 PM
Bet sabo is gonne be seen within the next year.... Seriously, he was about as talented as ace as a kid -except he never showed haki- considering he did tie in fights against ace and easily defeated luffy. Considering he left so early, by now he has been a pirate for at least 10 years meaning he could even be a lot stronger than what ace was -and by extention luffy-. I bet his nakama will be pissed when they find out luffy had a "forgotten" brother who also happened to be an absurdly powerful pirate-although under a nickname-.

bittman
June 07, 2010, 06:15 PM
Still hedging on my original bet from about 4-5 chapters ago: Sabo is going to die.

Besides, what a massive cop out it would be for Luffy to have another brother who couldn't be effed turning up to save Ace. If Sabo was alive Luffy should just beat the ever-living shit out of him for that alone.

So yeah, not getting all this "Oh yeah Sabo must be a good guy somewhere out there." Would a good guy just let his brother Ace die? Sabo is either dead (still my bet) or if I'm wrong, he's a villain or something.

Fox666
June 07, 2010, 10:02 PM
I thought about it as well, but the guy looks like he has a birth mark above his mouth, so I'm saying no on this one.And he has all of his teeth! :p

Lord Rayleigh
June 08, 2010, 04:14 AM
If Sabo is a pirate, it's possible he did not come to save Ace because he's in a Yonkou's crew, that is to say Big Mom's or Kaidou's. I doubt his captain would have let him join the Whitebeard's allies.

And thus even Ace may have never seen in him in New World. Remember that the Yonkou have their own territories and that they [nearly] never see each other. When Shanks and Whitebeard's crews met, Whitebeard said he was surprised that he had grown so much, what means the last he saw him he was not a Yonkou.
The World Government was also scared because 2 members of the Yonkou met, what means it is not something that often happens.

There's still the other explanation, that he's in the Revolutionary Army and that's why he could not come.

johnnyb7
June 10, 2010, 03:25 PM
If Sabo is a pirate, it's possible he did not come to save Ace because he's in a Yonkou's crew, that is to say Big Mom's or Kaidou's. I doubt his captain would have let him join the Whitebeard's allies.

And thus even Ace may have never seen in him in New World. Remember that the Yonkou have their own territories and that they [nearly] never see each other. When Shanks and Whitebeard's crews met, Whitebeard said he was surprised that he had grown so much, what means the last he saw him he was not a Yonkou.
The World Government was also scared because 2 members of the Yonkou met, what means it is not something that often happens.

There's still the other explanation, that he's in the Revolutionary Army and that's why he could not come.

It still doesn't fit to me. If Sabo was still alive I think he'd be more willing to leave his crew or group whether its a Yonkou group or the revolutionaries than to let Ace die. He would have protected his brother if he was still alive. That's why I think that he truly is dead. I think this are just further develops the relationships of Ace, Luffy and now Sabo. It also helped to give Luffy even more of a drive to become the pirate king for Ace and Sabo's sake.

Akainu
June 12, 2010, 10:22 AM
Added a poll to this thread since it seems to be quite controversial whether or not Sabo is (still) alive. If you have any ideas on other options that you really need in the poll, feel free to suggest them ;)

and don't forget to mention why you voted like you did in here (with more than just "I voted xyz" or "Of course xyz" please ;) )

ScratchmenApoo
June 12, 2010, 03:41 PM
I think he is alive and joined the Revolutionary Army.
I think Sabo got terribly injured but still managed to cling to a wood plank or something. He then got picked up by Dragon's ship or a patrolling ship belonging to the soon-to-become Revolutionary Army.
After taking care of Sabo's injuries, Dragon finds out his identity ("That's the same kid from before!") and realizes he will become a valuable person in the future struggle against corrupt government/nobles.
Also, an important character like Sabo wouldn't die as lame like that - from a cannon.
Besides, in One Piece, explosions do less damage than punches (as proven by Mr. 5)

Deo_df
June 13, 2010, 12:17 AM
Sabos alive, there's no other point to even mention him! To show that Luffy has already lost a brother is pointless, as Sabo was more Ace's friend, besides Luffy had only spent a few months with Sabo but several years with Ace. The bond is not equivalent! As for not contacting Ace (we can't be sure that they didn't reunite in the new world!) & Luffy, well communications obviously are not easy in the one piece world, as I'm sure Ace would have told Luffy about getting his logia power, but we saw that Luffy was suprised that Ace had become fire incarnate. I think the boys said it well when they had their own adventures to live and would meet I. The new world! Sabo is waiting for Luffy, he will probably also introduce Luffy to his dad!

Marche
June 13, 2010, 04:09 AM
Sabo is dead from the hands of that "Celestial Dragon".

goldb
June 13, 2010, 06:53 AM
I think Sabo is alive and may have joined the revolutionary army after some time. Until I see more proof that's what I'm going for.

Fox666
June 13, 2010, 08:07 AM
The Sabo history was important for several reasons:
- Everyone else in the crew had someone who died in the past. While Luffy had Shanks background, that was not a death, and Shanks is far from a infortunate guy to be sorry.
- Why was Luffy so desperate to save Ace. We know Luffy already did crazy things, but this time it was beyond imagination. "Ace is the only brother I have in the entire world"
- Why Luffy and Ace are now so united, and why they care for each other so much.
- And more important: to show the origin of Luffy ideology of freedom. Don't you already asked it?

By the way... Sabo is much "dead" as Dr. Hiruluk. You know, the author has no obligation to show the body as the crime scene evidence... as we have not seen the body of many others that died in the crew past stories.

THM Nindo
June 13, 2010, 09:39 AM
I wish he's alive and with the RA.
But honestly, I think he migh just be dead...

Basically, Ace wanted to become a great pirate so that he can change the new era (like Dadan said, it's not Jalmac that killed Sabo, it's the entire world!).

And so, Ace wanted to change the world.
Now that Ace is gone, Luffy will want to continue his quest.

Basically, from now on, Luffy won't just work to become the Pirate King.
He will also have in mind to change the world! (Alliance with the RA?)

I think that was the goal of this flashback arc.

goldb
June 13, 2010, 11:15 AM
I don't think Luffy will form an alliance with his father, I think I'm one of the few that believes he won't get on with Dragon all that well. If Sabo is with the RA, then maybe he'll be the one to bring their differing views closer.

ScratchmenApoo
June 13, 2010, 03:35 PM
I don't think Luffy will form an alliance with his father, I think I'm one of the few that believes he won't get on with Dragon all that well. If Sabo is with the RA, then maybe he'll be the one to bring their differing views closer.

It was heavily implied by Whitebeard that One Piece will have a war between the Will of D. carriers and the World Government in the end.
If Luffy finds One Piece and the true history and agrees to kick some WG ass, he will get help from his father's army whether he wants it or not.

Luffy doesn't believe that Sabo is alive, that's why he thinks that Ace is his only brother. Maybe if Luffy finds Sabo in the near future, he won't feel so much down anymore.

kkck
June 16, 2010, 01:10 PM
Aft seeing the most recent chapter, the most logical way to go would be for sabo to indeed be dead. Surely he should be able to swim so the burning ship should not be that big a deal but on the other hand, I don't think oda would troll the readers by killing ace only to have luffy have another long lost super powered brother.

deffkryz
June 17, 2010, 11:30 AM
If Oda follows this scheme:


Banchina - introduced in Usopp's flashback, died of sickness
Bellemere - introduced in Nami's flashback, killed
Hiluluk - introduced in Chopper's flashback, died of sickness and suicide
Kuina - introduced in Zoro's flashback, died in an accident
Kureha - introduced before Chopper's flashback, still living
Olvia, Clover, Robin's aunt - introduced in Robin's flashback, died
Tom - introduced in Franky's flashback, sentenced to death
Yorki & Brook's human comrades - introduced in Brook's flashback, died of sickness in the second flashback
Zeff - introduced before Sanji's flashback, survived


Sabo is dead.

And it already has been confirmed by Oda, since Ace was called "the only brother" Luffy had. (translation confirmed by Aohige_AP (http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1632992&postcount=7996) thx Liger X)

We have a good-bye letter, we have witnesses who either cared more for tidying up the mess than saving that kid... What else do you need?

Akainu
June 17, 2010, 12:37 PM
I for would need to see a dead body to believe it. For me almost everything SCREAMS that we will see Sabo. Sure Luffy said Ace is his only brother. Because he like everyone else believeds that Sabo is dead.

But you completly fail to acknowledge in howfar this flashback is diffrent to all the others. It's Luffys flashback to begin with, not just one of his crewmates. Furthermore since the other flashbacks something grave has happend in the mainstoryline, the death of Ace and Whitebeard, which was quite out of pattern if you ask me (don't kill main characters) so why introduce a second brother and kill him off right afterwards? especially going by the pattern?

No, as long as there is no burial scene that shows his dead body and not just an empty coffin, I refuse to rule out the option of Sabo being alive in the manga Oda writes. If it's so clear for you, have fun being surprised later on ^^

btw.: his hat floating in the ocean almost resembled Aces hat lying on the ground after his fight with Blackbeard - diffrence in the scenery as far as I can tell - almost none except the underground <,<

Poneglyph420
June 17, 2010, 04:00 PM
I wouldn't go as far as to say there is NO WAY that Sabo could again appear in the Manga... But I don't need a signed Affidavit from Oda to suspect that Sabo is more probably dead than alive.
Especially with all of the evidence, and based on looking at raws of past chapters particularly 567.. I'd be willing to bet on it.

Not that my opinion is hard law.. Only Oda's is after all..

bittman
June 17, 2010, 07:49 PM
I wouldn't go as far as to say there is NO WAY that Sabo could again appear in the Manga... But I don't need a signed Affidavit from Oda to suspect that Sabo is more probably dead than alive.
Especially with all of the evidence, and based on looking at raws of past chapters particularly 567.. I'd be willing to bet on it.

Not that my opinion is hard law.. Only Oda's is after all..

My sentiments are exactly this. Sure, lots of things point to Sabo being dead, and if he was alive it might be kind of cool, but I don't expect it and I'm fine with Sabo dying here.

Just as it was with Tom the Merman who was carried away on a train for execution, we never saw a body and though people hung onto the hope he was still around, the theory has not survived long. Same thing for Saul. Same thing for Nico Olivia.

Not getting these two arguements though:

That two main characters died, so Oda wouldn't kill another: please, Whitebeard wasn't a main character and Ace is a secondary at best. Still, sure two "important" people died recently, so what? This exact same arguement refused to believe Ace would die because WB was going to die, and two deaths = too many. So now 3 deaths = too many? Is it all too much?
What was the point of introducing Sabo to kill him off?: if you can't see the point of killing off Sabo then you aren't really reading the chapter, just glossing over the pictures. Not everyone has to die for a world changing reason. Heck, what was the point of killing Ace? Just because two chapters later we don't see Luffy SSJ, doesn't mean there wasn't a reason.

Bloodwinter
June 17, 2010, 08:30 PM
I'm honestly conflicted with this. I'm not sure which outcome I would like better, him being dead or alive. Even if he was alive, at that point I don't know which I would like better, being a pirate or a revolutionary.

If he's dead than it makes sense that Ace was so over-protective of Luffy. Sabo's dying wish (though he wasn't aware he was about to die) was for Ace to look after Luffy and make sure he's okay. Being that they were so close, and Sabo and Ace's history as friends dates back even further than he and Luffy's, means that due to this and their brotherhood that he was going to fulfill Sabo's task until the day he died. He was always looking for reasons to live, and protecting Luffy became one from that day forth. However, whether or not Sabo died would probably have not changed the fact that he was going to look after Luffy no matter what. That's just how Ace is, he is true to his word. I do love tragic endings and it would be truly tragic for him to have died to a Tenryubito before they got a chance to meet again at Sea, given all the events before this.

Sabo being alive would be of one or two options. If he were a pirate that would be good and true to Sabo's intentions. He wanted to be free and sail around the world and hopefully meet up with his brothers some day. However, it wouldn't seem to make much sense really. If he were a pirate, being how Ace can get around the grand line like it was nothing and is part of one of the biggest pirate fleets in the world, he would have had to run into Sabo at one point or another or at least hear about him. As much as I would love to see that he is a great Pirate in the New World, it's just so unlikely that no one would have heard about him.

Sabo as a revolutionary I would like not quite as much but it would make much more sense had he survived. He would want to put an end to the way things are in the Goa Kingdom and with the Tenryubito, due to personal experience. The Revolutionaries aren't very covert being that they are well known throughout the Government and nearly toppled all of South Blue. Though their presence is known well, their ranks aren't well established. It is one of the most mysterious forces of the series thus far. In fact, with the pacing of the story as it is now, it would make sense that Sabo would come back especially as a Revolutionary. A while ago Dragon said that the "true nature of the world will be answered when he meets Luffy again", and I would say that time is at hand with the world entering "The New Age". Not to mention, with Ace dying and now mentioning Sabo for the first time in the series, this flashback shortly after these events, as well as including Dragon, Iva, and Kuma and the beginnings of the Revolutionary Army, all signs are pointing to a reunion. I have a feeling if Oda didn't mean for the story to progress in this manner, he wouldn't have spent most of the time recently in this particular flashback.

As for his strength, as I see that being a key point in the character as well. If he were alive, the fact that he matched Ace when they were kids and was able to easily defeat Luffy even with his devil fruit powers meant that he was quite a capable combatant. Even before him joining the Whitebeard pirates, he was offered a spot as a Shichibukai due to his strength. When fighting Blackbeard, one of his crew mates commented on how powerful Ace was as a fighter even without the Mera Mera No Mi. So if they were both evenly matched as children, it was obvious how they were both to end up.

Uriel
June 17, 2010, 08:32 PM
I'm completely divided by the feeling. I understand that dead fulfills a better "experience" builder, but...They both believed (Past since Ace is dead) that He passed on. So the experience IS there no matter what.

So I want him to be alive, just because I feel attached to the character. Ego reasons, I know, but who can blame me for that?

Bloodwinter
June 24, 2010, 05:35 PM
I'm completely divided by the feeling. I understand that dead fulfills a better "experience" builder, but...They both believed (Past since Ace is dead) that He passed on. So the experience IS there no matter what.

So I want him to be alive, just because I feel attached to the character. Ego reasons, I know, but who can blame me for that?

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Regardless of whether he is truly dead or alive, the experience is still there and the changes that took place in their hearts happened.

Poneglyph420
June 24, 2010, 08:50 PM
This has really become a hotly debated circumstance. I'm simply astounded at the harsh division between those who faithfully believe Sabo has been saved and those who think he's dead.
It's only more aggravated by current events.

I'm sorry but it really makes sense for Sabo to be alive??? Really??
No matter if he was saved by Dragon or built a Mecha in the depths of the sea.. IMO Sabo has served his purpose. He was the first bond that Ace had ever had, and was the first grief that Luffy and Ace faced. He also was the first "victim of the world's injustice" that Ace and Luffy had witnessed.
This to me makes Sabo a crucial and essential part of the story.

However since Sabo's brothers dreamed of being free on the sea as pirates, I'd hope if he's alive (Which I severely doubt) he'd follow in the same dream. More so at this point Luffy is facing the fact that his deepest bonds (brotherhood) have all been shattered and he has to face his own inabilities. If Sabo were to resurface IMO that would "cheapen" the situation that Luffy is in currently.

But what do I know?.......

Uriel
June 25, 2010, 12:43 AM
Poneglyph: Sorry to sound jerk...but you're not Oda. None of us. We don't know if Sabo fullfilled or not his role YET.

Poneglyph420
June 25, 2010, 01:31 AM
Poneglyph: Sorry to sound jerk...but you're not Oda. None of us. We don't know if Sabo fullfilled or not his role YET.

No Worries.. I'm not Oda for sure.
But I did clearly use IMO in all my statements.
So I just think Sabo has made an impact even in the short time we saw him.

But I understand this is a heavily contested topic.

I also attest I could be wrong, there is a chance Sabo could be alive and either a pirate or member of the RA. I just don't know the probability.

Well I'm sure whatever Oda has decided will work best, he rarely fails.

Uriel
June 25, 2010, 09:44 AM
We can trust on Oda! I mean...I can bet Sabo was planned since moment zero. Showing Luffy beginning now as a pirate after so many chapters and so many crewmates makes me be amazed of Oda foresight.

PS: And sorry, I skipped the IMO >_>

THM Nindo
June 25, 2010, 10:30 AM
We can trust on Oda! I mean...I can bet Sabo was planned since moment zero. Showing Luffy beginning now as a pirate after so many chapters and so many crewmates makes me be amazed of Oda foresight.

PS: And sorry, I skipped the IMO >_>

Yeah, Sabo was planned for a long time, if you go back to the flashback of Ace and Luffy, you can actually see that there was a 3rd cup when they cheers and «became brothers» by drinking sake.

With the recent development, I think it's safe to say that there's more than enough proof to say that Sabo is most likely alive.

I'd say it's 80-20 right now, maybe even more.

BlackHair
June 25, 2010, 11:48 AM
I rather think Oda created Sabo the moment he decided to kill Ace. SO I don't rly think he was planned far ahead. I simply don't care about Sabo. Would be totally different if he heard his name long before, just like Dadan.

Bloodwinter
June 25, 2010, 08:39 PM
I rather think Oda created Sabo the moment he decided to kill Ace. SO I don't rly think he was planned far ahead. I simply don't care about Sabo. Would be totally different if he heard his name long before, just like Dadan.

I think he had all of this story set in place long before he published the past-arc we've been in until this week. It's uncommon, but stories are sometimes completely set up before the writer publishes them. In such a detailed series like One Piece, it's what keeps no element of the story feel as though it was "just thrown in". If you read every encounter with Luffy and Ace as well as them both talking about each other it built up to this point. It makes so much more sense now, all of the emphasis placed on their brotherhood.

THM Nindo
June 25, 2010, 09:30 PM
I rather think Oda created Sabo the moment he decided to kill Ace. SO I don't rly think he was planned far ahead. I simply don't care about Sabo. Would be totally different if he heard his name long before, just like Dadan.

We know he didn't...
Like I said, if you go back to the flashback, you will see that there was already 3 cups, meaning that he already knew about Sabo by then.

Sherlock Holmes
June 25, 2010, 09:35 PM
http://img-c.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000328922/07.jpg

I took that "terrible, fix him up" comment as a sign that Dragon had brought Sabo to his ship or something. But I am currently without sleeping for over 2 days, so I might be missing something really obvious.

Dasbones
June 25, 2010, 10:48 PM
http://img-c.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000328922/07.jpg

I took that "terrible, fix him up" comment as a sign that Dragon had brought Sabo to his ship or something. But I am currently without sleeping for over 2 days, so I might be missing something really obvious.

Nah, its more than likely all those people he saved from the Gray Terminal, I'm sure many of them were burned from that fire, and they probably didn't have enough medical supplies for all of them. Also, I doubt he would have been anywhere near that island when the Tenryubutto showed up; too risky.

Roarchu
June 26, 2010, 06:46 PM
i haven't been reading, someone probably already said but

Dragon was late, he was ok, but apparently he brought someone with horrible wounds and needed first aid

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/8

He was late cuz he brought Sabo, and he was the one who was injured. Who else? And this was right around the time when the celestial dragons made their appearance, they were there, so there's no way Dragon and the others couldn't have witnessed Sabo's ship getting destroyed (not sure about this)

sorry, probably someone already said this, but just in case

BlackHair
June 26, 2010, 08:22 PM
I think he had all of this story set in place long before he published the past-arc we've been in until this week. If you are talking about some time between the end of the Shabondy- or the middle of the war-arc, then I agree with you.


We know he didn't...
Like I said, if you go back to the flashback, you will see that there was already 3 cups, meaning that he already knew about Sabo by then.Im not sure about which flashback you are talking about. Only flashback I remember involving anything with cups were in the middle of the war.

Anyway, my point is: It's obvious by now that Sabo is going to play a major character in the story. After all Oda joined him with Dragon. So why did Oda never mentioned his name so far? My only logical answer is that he created him just shortly. I mean he mentioned Dadan as the SHs got their bounty raise in W7, but not Sabo, who will most likely play a bigger role than Dadan.

DARK
June 26, 2010, 10:28 PM
I honestly can't see Sabo being dead at all. It's important for Oda to make sure that Sabo is somehow alive, and yet make Luffy and everybody else think that he's dead.
Eventually, when the chips are down, Luffy and Sabo may end up meeting each other again. Sabo wanted the "freedom of the seas," and I can't see Oda denying any of his characters that.

Dasbones
June 27, 2010, 02:20 AM
Well it is possible if Dragon went by himself, I guess I'll coincide to that bit of evidence.

The only way I'll find this acceptable in the story is if Dragon somehow kept Sabo from seeing either Luffy, or Ace, since I doubt he would not want to see them, or had no knowledge of their exploits.

It would also be nice if It is Sabo that helped free Robin from Tequila Wolf, which would give him an easier opportunity to reunite with Luffy.

Zeltrax
June 27, 2010, 03:37 AM
I think sabo is the unknown yonkou,
someone who have a bigger purpose .
It's entirely possible that he is with dragon now, but his dream is to become a pirate and in one piece we know that dreams don't just die.
Sabo is not the kind who will go against the world nobles just because he got a grudge against the guy who shot him.

Schabrak
June 27, 2010, 04:52 AM
I think sabo is the unknown yonkou,
someone who have a bigger purpose .
It's entirely possible that he is with dragon now, but his dream is to become a pirate and in one piece we know that dreams don't just die.
Sabo is not the kind who will go against the world nobles just because he got a grudge against the guy who shot him.
But because they are the ones threatening the freedom of all humanity.

Yonkou:
Big Mom: a female pirate -> not Sabo
Kaidou: did try to stop WB from freeing Ace, Sabos brother: not Sabo

BlackHair
June 29, 2010, 10:59 AM
Seriously Sabo could be no way in hell a Yonkou. He is way to young to lead such a powerful pirate crew, nor can't I imagine him on last tier lvl already.

Wasn't his original dream to become a writer? I thought he just wanted to be a pirate because of Ace and Luffy, not sure though. Have to recheck the manga. Anyway, he fighting against those who take freedom is the best prediction imo. Panel 5 (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/6)

Razh
June 29, 2010, 12:30 PM
It's entirely possible that he is with dragon now, but his dream is to become a pirate and in one piece we know that dreams don't just die.


We shouldn't take character childhood dreams as an absolute law. He did want to write about his voyages, probably figured a pirate has the most freedom to do what he wants.
Just take Zoro as an example. His dream is to become the #1 swordsman. He first started out as a bounty hunter. Then, he became a pirate, just like that. Becoming #1 swordsman and being a pirate aren't mutually exclusive. In the same way, you can be a pirate and write about your voyages, or you can be a revolutionary and write about your voyages.
Seemed to me that Sabo sort of gained one more dream during the flashback events. There's a lot to write about the state of the world, the tyranny of WG, suffering of the small people and about the revolution.

Poneglyph420
June 29, 2010, 04:44 PM
i haven't been reading, someone probably already said but

Dragon was late, he was ok, but apparently he brought someone with horrible wounds and needed first aid

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/8

He was late cuz he brought Sabo, and he was the one who was injured. Who else? And this was right around the time when the celestial dragons made their appearance, they were there, so there's no way Dragon and the others couldn't have witnessed Sabo's ship getting destroyed (not sure about this)

sorry, probably someone already said this, but just in case


Actually It's not for sure and is still a contested topic IMO at least.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/589/07/
Looking at this page I'm torn on what has happened...

This page is clearly the night of the Tenryuubito arrival at Goa.
In the first two frames wee see a child say "Did you see that guy with the huge face this afternoon?" That to me leads me to think that Dragon and his ship have been at this island for some time. Likely that they departed Goa before Sabo's demise.

It's still possible that Sabo is alive and well, but based on the evidence I'm not sure he's with Dragon. Don't get me wrong it's not for sure but sure seems likely that Sabo is not with Dragon..
If he is then Dragon must have a motor boat or some other way to travel really fast.. Cuz I can't see how he was at "Zoro's Island" all day and able to save Sabo.

I do hope that Oda clears things up for us sooner than later....

Bloodwinter
June 29, 2010, 05:01 PM
*cough*

*cough* everyone is ignoring me *cough*

Well mostly the reason no one had really addressed it is because it is a very wide-spread theory at this point. A lot of people have already said it and talked through the options at this point. However, he had set sail the night of the Gray Terminal incident and by the next night was at Zoro's hometown. There is no real determining how far away the Goa Kingdom is from Shimotsuki village so it's still plausible it's not that far away. However, can someone please show the panel at which he has someone in his hands? Because every panel of him showed him by himself from what I'd seen.

It could be possible that they already had on board who's medical status they were in the middle of reviewing and found him to be in critical condition.

Uriel
July 01, 2010, 11:02 AM
If he is then Dragon must have a motor boat or some other way to travel really fast.. Cuz I can't see how he was at "Zoro's Island" all day and able to save Sabo.
I do hope that Oda clears things up for us sooner than later....
Well, If He has Air Logia or can change the weather (We have already seen the green wind) may help him to travel faster than anyone.

Razh
July 02, 2010, 03:17 AM
If he is then Dragon must have a motor boat or some other way to travel really fast.. Cuz I can't see how he was at "Zoro's Island" all day and able to save Sabo.

He can fly. 2 of the most likely fruits so far would both allow him flight. It's as simple as that. And he probably wasn't on Zoro's island all day.

quick_al
July 02, 2010, 05:04 PM
Actually It's not for sure and is still a contested topic IMO at least.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/589/07/
Looking at this page I'm torn on what has happened...

This page is clearly the night of the Tenryuubito arrival at Goa.
In the first two frames wee see a child say "Did you see that guy with the huge face this afternoon?" That to me leads me to think that Dragon and his ship have been at this island for some time. Likely that they departed Goa before Sabo's demise.

It's still possible that Sabo is alive and well, but based on the evidence I'm not sure he's with Dragon. Don't get me wrong it's not for sure but sure seems likely that Sabo is not with Dragon..
If he is then Dragon must have a motor boat or some other way to travel really fast.. Cuz I can't see how he was at "Zoro's Island" all day and able to save Sabo.

I do hope that Oda clears things up for us sooner than later....

Wow i completely missed that when i read the chapter, that they had a injured person on board. I too hope Oda clears it up

Roarchu
July 02, 2010, 07:54 PM
sorry I sounded obnoxious. I just hadn't read anyone say anything about that

but Dragon being late and having brought someone wounded...

who else would be wounded there at that time? it's just too fishy

Poneglyph420
July 02, 2010, 08:49 PM
Well, If He has Air Logia or can change the weather (We have already seen the green wind) may help him to travel faster than anyone.


He can fly. 2 of the most likely fruits so far would both allow him flight. It's as simple as that. And he probably wasn't on Zoro's island all day.

Well yes. Both of you are likely correct. Dragon would likely be able to fly IF he has one of the suspected DF's. That being said, HE can fly not his whole ship and crew... SO IF he did save Sabo he probably picked him up and flew away...

Just seems like if Dragon's ship and crew are Not near Goa, we wouldn't be either...


sorry I sounded obnoxious. I just hadn't read anyone say anything about that

but Dragon being late and having brought someone wounded...

who else would be wounded there at that time? it's just too fishy

It's indeed fishy, and makes me wonder too..
But at the point he was late he wasn't near Goa, unless he flew there to save Sabo and fly back... Which to me also seems suspect.

I'd be fine if Sabo survived and was with Dragon..
And well Sh!t it could be. I'm really not sure either way..
Just not sure why so many are so convinced with so little (mostly assumed) information.

Think it's best to say the jury is still out on this one...

bittman
July 03, 2010, 08:12 AM
As I posted elsewhere, I believe the translation being somewhat used may appear out of context.

Remember, the revolutionaries are travelling away from Goa Kingdom where they just saved a buttload of people about to be burned in a fire. As it stands, a lot of those people saved are probably severely injured, and such is the demand for medical attention that their stocks ran low and they had to request assitance from a nearby island. Since we see no "omg where did you get that kid?" or "who is that?" or any indication at all that Dragon has brought someone on board, Oda has either done the smallest ever hint...ever, or people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also: sure Dragon has a high probability of flight, but what you're also saying here is that Dragon flew back to Goa to search for a young noble boy who may or may not have set sail and may or may not have accidentally run across a Tenryuubito ship and then may or may not have died because of it...either in broad daylight or like 12 hours after Sabo was shot at when he had the cover of night. He then flew back to his ship, but didn't go straight there but went to negotiate with the dojo master, and then decided to come to the ship after that.

The number of circumstances there is too many for me to see any logical connection.

Uriel
July 04, 2010, 01:16 PM
It could be that He commanded the ship to go because the fact that He may not be able to take his whole crew with him when He flights.
So He traveled alone when they were far from the reach of the Tenryuubito to spy. Then He saw Sabo and helped him somehow.

But again, I do think it's too many circumstances to consider it a solid story. At this point, my logic says that He's death by now...But I seriously WANT him alive.

Bugzee
July 13, 2010, 07:13 PM
I think Sabo is alive. As I myself and others (I think) have said before on several occassions, Sabo's dream perfectly ties in with the other SH's and I honestly believe that it would awesome if he was the last member to join them on their adventures in the GL...:p

About the voting poll options:

Dead - by the hands of St. Jalmack
Dead - on some later adventure
Alive - living in peace
Alive - sailing the sea as pirate
Alive - fighting for the Revolutionary Army
Alive - ? Whereabouts unknown for the time being. ;) *Me votes for this option. :shakefist*

It's more likely that if he is alive, he would be with the RV's atm but I'll hold my judgement on that matter for now. :)

DARK
July 13, 2010, 07:28 PM
Most likely Sabo is alive. I don't think that he is fighting for the Revolutionary Army, though.
Sabo says he wants the freedom of sailing out to sea, something he never got at home. If anything, he wanted to escape his heritage as a nobel not confront it head on. He rather die than to continue his role as a member of a nobel family. Most importantly, Sabo wanted freedom and nakama who truly cared about him, not his stuck-up parents. I still believe Sabo is somewhere in the New World, with his own crew.

kkck
August 17, 2010, 03:09 PM
^I also think sabo is alive although I do think he'd be a part of the revolutionary army. I think that would make the most sense. Unless there is a mistranslation, I'd think this part (http://www.cloudmanga.com/One_Piece/589/) shows sabo being saved by the revolutionaries. I think it'd make perfect sense for sabo to join the revolutionaries. He wanted freedom for himself, that is true but there is no reason for him to not be capable of getting that with them. He could have easily chosen to join the army and fight for freedom, for something which he considered greater than himself.

Black Lagoon
August 17, 2010, 03:40 PM
I think that he´s alive but has amnesia, although I guess that when he saw Ace in the newspaper and read about his death he might have had a flashback to his childhood, and so remembered things like trash mountain, Dadan, Ace, Luffy ...

Jammin
August 17, 2010, 09:21 PM
Unless he has amnesia, as Black Lagoon suggested, I think he is almost certainly dead. There is no way he wouldn't have been there trying to stop Ace's execution otherwise. He also would have let Ace and Luffy know he was alive long before that.

I mean, Ace had become pretty renown so it's not like he wouldn't of known how to get a hold of them.

tret16
August 20, 2010, 06:05 PM
well i personally believe that Sabo is alive, and it's because of one main reason and that would be the fact that Oda doesn't seem to let characters die that way. By that i mean that all he showed was Sabo's hat after they destroyed his boat. If you look at the others who have died in the manga, Ace and Whitebeard died on paper and in the sight of all the others. Ace died in luffy's arms and whitebeard died and then he got his powers stolen from him.

bittman
August 21, 2010, 07:05 AM
Unless he has amnesia, as Black Lagoon suggested, I think he is almost certainly dead. There is no way he wouldn't have been there trying to stop Ace's execution otherwise. He also would have let Ace and Luffy know he was alive long before that.

I mean, Ace had become pretty renown so it's not like he wouldn't of known how to get a hold of them.

I agree with your words in that the only believable "Sabo is alive" theory has to be if Sabo has amnesia. Amnesia fake-deaths are a terrible plot device in my opinion though, I have never seen a good amnesia story unravel given they are either too obvious or just flat out pointless to the story as a whole.

But yes, if Sabo was alive somewhere, which I don't believe since we saw enough of him to kill him off in the eyes of everyone who isn't fanboying him hard, the only excuse I would accept is amnesia. And then I'd be disappointed because it's typically such a poor technique that goes something like:

"Blahblahblah traumatic experience blahblah why am I crying? blah blah You remembered my name! *cries* blah blah I...remember..."

P.S. Stop referencing Ace and Whitebeard as ways Oda kills off characters. If you're going to argue for Sabo being alive, at least reference deaths in flashbacks. And then reference me any Shonen material where they show the mutilated body of a 12 year old boy in order to sicken readers and make it instantly Seinin.

LeDuck
August 21, 2010, 08:11 AM
I agree with your words in that the only believable "Sabo is alive" theory has to be if Sabo has amnesia. Amnesia fake-deaths are a terrible plot device in my opinion though, I have never seen a good amnesia story unravel given they are either too obvious or just flat out pointless to the story as a whole.

But yes, if Sabo was alive somewhere, which I don't believe since we saw enough of him to kill him off in the eyes of everyone who isn't fanboying him hard, the only excuse I would accept is amnesia. And then I'd be disappointed because it's typically such a poor technique that goes something like:

"Blahblahblah traumatic experience blahblah why am I crying? blah blah You remembered my name! *cries* blah blah I...remember..."

P.S. Stop referencing Ace and Whitebeard as ways Oda kills off characters. If you're going to argue for Sabo being alive, at least reference deaths in flashbacks. And then reference me any Shonen material where they show the mutilated body of a 12 year old boy in order to sicken readers and make it instantly Seinin.

Good to see, that there are still people out here that think straight :D
*cough*
Sabo is not Moria, Kid, Kuma, Vegapunk or anyone else
*cough*

We can't say he's dead for sure, because of the scene with dragon, because there was something about someone's injuries.

The question is, if he is alive, why:

- Didn't he say anything to Luffy / Ace
- Didn't try to reach Ace when he became famous
- Didn't try to save Ace

As said, there are about two options:

- It would be somehow in favor of the revolutionist to have someone, who is supposed to be dead
- He doesn't remember anything

If you ask me, both would be pretty crappy, so if he comes back into the story, I hope we get a reasonable explanation.

Wolf D. Arius
August 21, 2010, 09:01 AM
As i said in the current spoiler Thread, through the picture shown on this weeks cover i think that sabo is alive. Oda has drawn him as an adult and i dont think he would have designed him if he wasnt alive and used in the future. I dont think he is someone we know, but i can imagine he is one of the Rebel army commanders, like the guy Robin met at tequila wolf.

Would be no surprise ;)

And amnesia? Come on... this is not really a thing that would be plausible, in my opinion. I would say, that Sabo serves the bigger purpose.. Dragon. And he knows that he alone could not change the fate of Ace and Ruffy, because it was their decisions / lifes that made this war happen. He cant take his part of the rebel army and just march into marineford, this would be suicide and of no use at all.

There is a reason, why the rebel army did not interfere in the war and i think this reason will soon open all our eyes

GreeTz, Wolf D. Arius

Schabrak
August 24, 2010, 07:05 PM
The question is, if he is alive, why:
- Didn't he say anything to Luffy / Ace
- Didn't try to reach Ace when he became famous
- Didn't try to save Ace

Everything following this sentence is theory:

A new life as a revolutionary had him tied to the cause of freeing people, the same reason Dragon never met with Luffy in person. Did he really have a reason to meet up with Ace, when he had a job to be done with absolute devotion, when both were still so young, when they still had decades to meet up.
The same reason, his devotion to free thousands of people, instead of a single one, a reasonable reason, which so many people here try not to mention.
What would a single person do, if there was a gigantic fleet of mighty pirates on the way to help Ace already, his family, his father and an army of nakama. Should he just leave his important position, just to risk exposure to the world?

People, think rational before repeating things again and again. And as mentioned before, amnesia is the worst plot device every created, I pray that Oda will never use it in his plot.

Jammin
August 26, 2010, 07:57 PM
Everything following this sentence is theory:

A new life as a revolutionary had him tied to the cause of freeing people, the same reason Dragon never met with Luffy in person. Did he really have a reason to meet up with Ace, when he had a job to be done with absolute devotion, when both were still so young, when they still had decades to meet up.
The same reason, his devotion to free thousands of people, instead of a single one, a reasonable reason, which so many people here try not to mention.
What would a single person do, if there was a gigantic fleet of mighty pirates on the way to help Ace already, his family, his father and an army of nakama. Should he just leave his important position, just to risk exposure to the world?

People, think rational before repeating things again and again. And as mentioned before, amnesia is the worst plot device every created, I pray that Oda will never use it in his plot. What did Luffy do the moment he found out Ace was to be executed? What would Ace have done if his and Luffy's position were reversed?

Ace was just as important to Sabo as he was to Luffy, all three of them were brothers after all. That is what makes him rationally choosing not to go try and help Ace for ANY reason seem so too far fetched. Luffy had important things to do and was well aware that he wasn't strong enough to take on an Admiral but nothing was more important to him than his brother's life from what we know about Sabo the same should have been true of him if he were alive/aware of his past.

The idea of him staying on the sidelines for the sake of something more important than his brother's life is like the opposite of Oda's writing style. Rationality doesn't even enter into it. I thought Oda hammered pretty hard on the point that there was nothing Luffy, Ace, and Sabo wouldn't have done for one another.

kkck
August 26, 2010, 08:13 PM
Maybe sabo did not go there because it was physically impossible to do so. Say he was in the north blue as he found out what happened to ace. Even if he had the entire week before the announcement to get to him, it is impossible to travel the GL so fast.

Schabrak
August 26, 2010, 08:36 PM
The idea of him staying on the sidelines for the sake of something more important than his brother's life is like the opposite of Oda's writing style. Rationality doesn't even enter into it. I thought Oda hammered pretty hard on the point that there was nothing Luffy, Ace, and Sabo wouldn't have done for one another.
What does his writing style has to do with presenting an extraordinary plot? It was Oda that showed Luffy believe in Ace, not going to help him, when he first saw the vivre card burning. :/ Dragon[revolutionaries], Law[pirate], the Gorousei[WG] have also shown rationalism; writing style != rationalism, it's just some characters being led by their feelings, while others are more calm and think things over.

Wasn't it Oda, who showed us that people can change, have goals, they would do anything for? They stay seperated for two years, because they are led bei their rationalism, instead of following their feelings and meet up right now.:)

El-Thor
August 30, 2010, 12:01 AM
I have a theory about Sabo. It's pretty outlandish but here goes (it's also kinda short, hahah)

I think that Sabo's life was spared when his ship exploded because he was protected by a burst of Haki similar to what Ace and Luffy did. If you look at the last panel, Sabo's expression is similar to the expressions Luffy and Ace had when they released their Haki. Now, I understand his look can just be one of anger towards the Noble firing at him, but my theory/hope is that he used Haki to deflect the blast.

If Sabo is alive, then why didn't he contact Ace and Luffy since he must have seen their wanted posters ? It's because Sabo is in a coma. I think his Haki was enough to protect himself, but he still sustained some damage and went into a coma. He probably floated to an island where he was picked up by the inhabitants and that's where he is now. Hopefully he will wake up within the next two years and learn about everything that's happened.

:D

Black Lagoon
August 30, 2010, 10:29 AM
Maybe sabo did not go there because it was physically impossible to do so. Say he was in the north blue as he found out what happened to ace. Even if he had the entire week before the announcement to get to him, it is impossible to travel the GL so fast.
Agreed, but why didn't he contact them since he must have seen their wanted posters? Since those who witnessed his death think that he´s dead, what would Luffy and Ace think? So if he is alive he must have at least tried to get in contact with them, because they are more than simple brothers.
As I said before, unless he has amnesia IMO he´s dead.

What does his writing style has to do with presenting an extraordinary plot? It was Oda that showed Luffy believe in Ace, not going to help him, when he first saw the vivre card burning. :/ Dragon[revolutionaries], Law[pirate], the Gorousei[WG] have also shown rationalism; writing style != rationalism, it's just some characters being led by their feelings, while others are more calm and think things over.

Wasn't it Oda, who showed us that people can change, have goals, they would do anything for? They stay seperated for two years, because they are led bei their rationalism, instead of following their feelings and meet up right now.:)

It has nothing to do with Oda´s writing style or anything, as I said to kkck and as Jammin said, they are more than simple brothers and there´s absolutely nothing they wouldn't have done for one another, no matter what business they are in, their real business is to maintain and look for one another (Not literally, but if one of them is in trouble ... You know what they would do )

Schabrak
August 30, 2010, 10:24 PM
What proof do you have for your claim of absolute brotherliness after all those years? How can you claim them/Sabi staying the same.

If you haven't noticed, Revolutionaries have/had to stay hidden so they wont get exposed to the World Government/Marines. Dragon still didn't get it touch with Luffy. Why do you think they use those special snails and radios to communicate? That would be a reason, for not getting in contact with Ace or Luffy. Just because you can't think of him acting so rational in such situation[ he would probably just be a small fly himself compared to WB, I don't want to repeat myself...], hell I would react just a Luffy did too[under the condition I'm not a revolutionairy] personally, it doesn't mean he could not nor that he didn't/doesn't love his brothers.

Poneglyph420
August 31, 2010, 12:02 AM
I don't think the Bond that Ace, Luffy and Sabo shared was that of pure brotherhood is questionable. And regardless of their occupation that bond would likely remain unbroken. IF Sabo is a super high level RA and had some need to maintain secrecy, he might lie low....
But I doubt he'd let his brothers continue to think he's still dead. It's be cruel and torturous to all involved.. Also defies their combined drive for freedom.

I respect that there are rational ideas (however few) that could support Sabo's survival... But in the face of all other evidence pointing to his death, it's unlikely.

Personally I think that Sabo played a massive role in both influencing Ace and Luffy. I also think that his "supposed" death at the hands of a Tenryuubito is epic and underlies a clear thematic component of OP.. The corruption of the powers that be. and the forces of change to come... In that sense Sabo has already etched a place far deeper in the manga than he ever could as a RA, IMHO that is.

Anyarel
August 31, 2010, 07:23 AM
Oh! I've got a super suggestion!
He's been changed into a girl by Ivankov and he's gonna be Luffy's wife. :p
Well, I don't really believe it could have happened but it would be funny... XD

But if you ignore the Luffy's wife part, if he really is still alive and is a revolutionnary, he could really have become a girl to escape from his father.
There's no way he could be recognized once he became a girl! :blink

Black Lagoon
August 31, 2010, 07:54 AM
What proof do you have for your claim of absolute brotherliness after all those years? How can you claim them/Sabi staying the same.

If you haven't noticed, Revolutionaries have/had to stay hidden so they wont get exposed to the World Government/Marines. Dragon still didn't get it touch with Luffy. Why do you think they use those special snails and radios to communicate? That would be a reason, for not getting in contact with Ace or Luffy. Just because you can't think of him acting so rational in such situation[ he would probably just be a small fly himself compared to WB, I don't want to repeat myself...], hell I would react just a Luffy did too[under the condition I'm not a revolutionairy] personally, it doesn't mean he could not nor that he didn't/doesn't love his brothers.

I don´t think you understand what real brothers mean to one another (Because these 3 are more than brothers) neither the true meaning of my post, or just didn´t get what the the "little" flashback after the war was for (in part). About the revolutionaries, how much do you think did Luffy keep the truth about Ace´s secret? (Well ... I guess it was involuntary but it counts), besides, this whole secret or keep the revolutionaries hidden has nothing to do with it, I mean ... Just tell Luffy to keep his mouth shut and he won´t say a word no matter what are the circumstances ... and don´t you think that the last thing he could have done is as he sent the letter to Ace when he was with his real parents, he could have sent another one saying that he´s all right and nobody has to worry about him anymore ... And he could have done that in the beginning, when nothing as you say might have changed. :)

Bugzee
August 31, 2010, 10:25 AM
I honestly don't believe that both of Luffy's brothers are dead. I strongly believe that Sabo is still alive. :p

I think the most recent events that have occured in OP are fitting for Luffy to one day eventually cross paths with Sabo again. Dragon obviously is preparing something big. The last indication of Sabo being alive was when Dragon returned back to his ship in the flashback...and since then the most likely "whereabouts" of Sabo is with the Revolutionaries. Now that Dragon has confirmed that he has requested all the commanders to meet together...there's a chance that maybe one of the SH's may cross paths with Sabo without knowing who he is. :eyeroll

Sabo could also be going by another name now...

Edit: Sabo x Robin. Perfect couple IMHO. :3 :p

Schabrak
August 31, 2010, 11:43 AM
and don´t you think that the last thing he could have done is as he sent the letter to Ace when he was with his real parents, he could have sent another one saying that he´s all right and nobody has to worry about him anymore ... And he could have done that in the beginning, when nothing as you say might have changed. :)
We don't know the rules/terms of the RA, so I nor you can really argument with that. Nevertheless considering he's alive, I would think that Sabo wanted them not to worry about him. A fictive death would give him the best cover one could imagine. However again people forget and/or ignore, that Ace had a real big family supporting/rescuing him, so should he really risk exposure, if much stronger people are already helping? In the end Luffy did only delay Ace execution nor do I think somebody of Ace caliber would have made much difference, with all the Shichibukai and Garp/Sengoku being in standby for the longest time. Without Luffy, Garp would most definitly have blocked any other attempt pirates coming to the scaffold.

And please don't you ever dare to accuse me of not understanding what true love for siblings means! I would give my life for my brother without thinking about it, as he would for me too, as long as not both would end up dead obviously. That comment made me really agressive, it's hard not to become insulting.:E

kkck
August 31, 2010, 11:49 AM
I honestly don't believe that both of Luffy's brothers are dead. I strongly believe that Sabo is still alive. :p

I think the most recent events that have occured in OP are fitting for Luffy to one day eventually cross paths with Sabo again. Dragon obviously is preparing something big. The last indication of Sabo being alive was when Dragon returned back to his ship in the flashback...and since then the most likely "whereabouts" of Sabo is with the Revolutionaries. Now that Dragon has confirmed that he has requested all the commanders to meet together...there's a chance that maybe one of the SH's may cross paths with Sabo without knowing who he is. :eyeroll

Sabo could also be going by another name now...

Edit: Sabo x Robin. Perfect couple IMHO. :3 :p
I agree, sabo is very much alive. I also believe he is the one mentioned in the dragon flashback. If he is alive and was saved by dragon though, it is very likely he is a commander or at least a high ranking revolutionary though. He was supposed to be about as strong as ace before and if that parallel maintains then he is by no means someone who could be considered a rookie.

Black Lagoon
August 31, 2010, 01:27 PM
We don't know the rules/terms of the RA, so I nor you can really argument with that. Nevertheless considering he's alive, I would think that Sabo wanted them not to worry about him. A fictive death would give him the best cover one could imagine. However again people forget and/or ignore, that Ace had a real big family supporting/rescuing him, so should he really risk exposure, if much stronger people are already helping? In the end Luffy did only delay Ace execution nor do I think somebody of Ace caliber would have made much difference, with all the Shichibukai and Garp/Sengoku being in standby for the longest time. Without Luffy, Garp would most definitly have blocked any other attempt pirates coming to the scaffold.
I´m one of those :sweatdrop
But If Akainu didn´t tempt him, he´ll be crying for WhiteBeard´s death right now. However, I agree with you except in one point, as I said in my post earlier, the last thing he could have done ("Just few days after being rescued by Dragon" **) is send a letter to Ace saying that he´s alright.

**Not confirmed but seems the most probable scenario.

thanks to you, now I have 3 possible theory :
1- He´s dead
2- Amnesia
3- Your point, looking at Ace´s big family he might have thought that no way he´s gonna die which would be a serious change in his personality\character.
But then again if he doesn´t have amnesia IMO he´d have sent a letter to Ace.
So I guess I have to add a 4th one :
4- 2 and started remembering thing not long ago + 3 ^^

And please don't you ever dare to accuse me of not understanding what true love for siblings means! I would give my life for my brother without thinking about it, as he would for me too, as long as not both would end up dead obviously. That comment made me really agressive, it's hard not to become insulting.:E

I knew you would be angry with my comment (I'm really bad expressing my thoughts with writing) I'm so sorry if I offended you, It wasn´t my point ... but I guess your post made me aggressive too :)

t00192723
July 09, 2011, 03:27 PM
SABO IS NOOOOOT DEAD!!!!!...WATCH EPISODE 504 OF ONE PIECE AND NEAR THE BEGINNING OF THE EPISODE THERE IS A SCENE WHERE DRAGONS SHIP IS DOCKED AND DRAGON WALKS BACK ONTO THE SHIP ONLY TO BE YELLED AT AND THEN DRAGON WHILE OPENING HIS CLOAK SAYS SORRY BUT YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT WAS INSIDE OF HIS CLOAK...WELL WHEN THEY SAY "OH THATS VERY BAD...TREAT HIM NOW"...AND THEN LEAVE DRAGON STANDING THERE, THEY WERE TALKIN ABOUT SABO BECAUSE DRAGON RESCUED HIM FROM THE SEE AFTER THE CELESTIAL DRAGON SHOT AT HIM FOR THE VERY LAST TIME

Charlie
July 09, 2011, 06:33 PM
Welcome to the One Piece forums and Mh - t00192723. :party

Please try not to use all caps when posting because that gives the impression you're yelling and its not a good format, when reading the post.

Now about Sabo - that you mentioned. I don't recall the manga chapters about him well enough but I think the anime part you speak of might be filler. I could be wrong as I don't recall that too well.

Someone here can correct me on that, no doubt.


Edit: I also want to extend an invitation to you to make your own introduction thread at the mh Memberz Zone (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/935-Member-Zone). This way, you can say hello to the community.

kidopitz27
July 09, 2011, 06:47 PM
i think Oda is supervising each episode creation even fillers so there is a 0.01%(yeah its possible) that Sabo is the one that Dragon saved

Akainu
July 10, 2011, 05:05 AM
actually that same part was in the manga and it was just as unmisunderstandably that this "treat him" was directed at Sabo. there are quite some who don't see it that way though :amuse but really there was no other simple and yet convincing theory around - in the manga it was also not clear who said that line iirc ?

Ratatosk
July 10, 2011, 06:38 PM
The anime didn't add much to the manga, but the way it was said made it pretty obvious that Sabo was alive. Manga was ambiguous and translations were all over the place, anime was more reassuring the kiddies. And yeah, Oda checks these things, even at the start before they knew how important plot details would get, or Rayleigh wouldve been the captain of Buggy & Shanks' ship back in the day :D

Sabo wanted to sail the seas & write a book about it, (it's been said before but) could be the narrator for all we know.

modoki
August 16, 2011, 01:38 PM
SABO IS NOOOOOT DEAD!!!!!...WATCH EPISODE 504 OF ONE PIECE AND NEAR THE BEGINNING OF THE EPISODE THERE IS A SCENE WHERE DRAGONS SHIP IS DOCKED AND DRAGON WALKS BACK ONTO THE SHIP ONLY TO BE YELLED AT AND THEN DRAGON WHILE OPENING HIS CLOAK SAYS SORRY BUT YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT WAS INSIDE OF HIS CLOAK...WELL WHEN THEY SAY "OH THATS VERY BAD...TREAT HIM NOW"...AND THEN LEAVE DRAGON STANDING THERE, THEY WERE TALKIN ABOUT SABO BECAUSE DRAGON RESCUED HIM FROM THE SEE AFTER THE CELESTIAL DRAGON SHOT AT HIM FOR THE VERY LAST TIME


i did notice that also. After dragon met sabo some time earlier at night, im sure dragon seen a spark in his eye. Sabo definitely looks like revolutionary material to help overthrow world government influence. With him being once in the noble family will definitely help.


But Sabo is very much alive and under Dragons care. Ivankov and Kuma(RIP) both have knowledge of the aftermath of Sabos medical treatment on the ship after Dragon brought him in.

Lastly i have a very strange feeling that due to Sabos very bad wounds, most of his body including face may have been burned to the point where he may not even be recognizable anymore. When we do see him again (pressumably the NW) He may either :
1. wearing a mask
2. reconstructed as an android or something (sorry i know this is a stupid point)
3. New name, new personality, disregarded his previous life and friends.

hoeru
May 24, 2012, 08:19 AM
It's an interesting point you put, but in conjunction in the way Sabo died, it just wasn't emotional at all.

The whole chapters 588 and 589 was about Sabo's death - which is MUCH more than Oda spent for any other flashback death. Dogura wasn't emotional (http://www.mangareader.net/103-53160-7/one-piece/chapter-588.html)? And how the others Luffy, Ace and the Dadan family receive the message on his death isn't emotional, either? (http://www.mangareader.net/103-53160-15/one-piece/chapter-588.html) While Ace was shown to be bound on a tree, someone from the Dadan family says, that Luffy cried all the time and now finally fell asleep, and was still crying much after Sabo's letter arrived. Sabo's death is the reason for Luffy to get stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and stronger, and then even stronger to protect everyone. So that he won't have to lose anyone (http://www.mangareader.net/103-54487-3/one-piece/chapter-589.html) while it was the reason for Ace to treat Luffy as little brother and protect him no matter what.

Sabo's death had a great emotional influence on both Ace and Luffy.

Are you still dead serious on Sabo's death scenes not being emotional at all? Or have you simply not read those chapters? I know many here at MH dislike OP flashbacks because they want the plot to continue. But it's actually not that good to skip or skim through them without reading them as close as the rest of the story.

And if the death scene was "emotional" or not isn't actually relevant whether or not Sabo is dead.

What's in addition: Sabo has been much longer a friend to Ace than to Luffy. And yet, Ace asked Luffy to asy goodbye to Dadan, not Sabo. So Sabo had some years to contact either Luffy or Ace - there was always a way to do this in total secrecy. Especially if he got part of the World Revolution (Dragon showed up in Loguetown out of nowhere).


now guys tell me do you realy belive that Oda who i'm sure he didn't write the databook page by page and some editors did he put such a big spoiler in a databook?

But it's not one Databook but two (Green and Blue Deep). And errors withing a databook are corrected in the next one. We already know that from One Piece Red to One Piece Blue when Sanji's age was corrected.

Kaiten
May 24, 2012, 11:28 AM
Most importantly, this page (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c589/2.html) says, in big ass letters, "After Sabo's Death". Sabo served his purpose as a character: Ace and Luffy first bonded over their mutual friendship with Sabo while he introduced both to the inequities of the world. Sabo's death was drawn in such a way that he could be brought back, his death was ambiguous (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c588/8.html), no body was seen. There is little reason to believe he survived his boat being shot twice at close range, until further evidence emerges any argument in favor of his survival is bound to be pretty weak, with little basis in the narrative.

damane08
May 24, 2012, 12:51 PM
Most importantly, this page (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c589/2.html) says, in big ass letters, "After Sabo's Death". Sabo served his purpose as a character: Ace and Luffy first bonded over their mutual friendship with Sabo while he introduced both to the inequities of the world. Sabo's death was drawn in such a way that he could be brought back, his death was ambiguous (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c588/8.html), no body was seen. There is little reason to believe he survived his boat being shot twice at close range, until further evidence emerges any argument in favor of his survival is bound to be pretty weak, with little basis in the narrative.

That's not a good argument for his death at all. Since you brought it up, I'll share these with you: The Mangareader version of that page (http://www.mangareader.net/103-54487-2/one-piece/chapter-589.html). Those big ass letters aren't there, are they?

Let's continue: This version was scanlated by Mangastream (http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/one-piece/589/2/). Those big ass letter aren't present.

Let's continue: This is the Chinese version (http://hotpic.sfacg.com/AllComic/2/589/?p=2). Those big ass letter aren't there either.

And here's the Japanese version: http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk174/damane08/5ffdac0b.jpg See those big ass letters? Nope? I hope you understand the point i'm trying to make here. Those big ass letters were just added by the group that scanlated the chapter that you linked, it's not in any other version of the chapter.

Schabrak
May 24, 2012, 01:01 PM
Cezgeth
You seem to not even have read the pages I mentioned nor hoeru's or Kaiten's posts in that regard. Nor did you answer my question of his purpose in the future plot. This will be last answer to you unless you really want to bring some arguments into the discussion about his supposed relevance to the plot in the future of the series. Anyway read their posts too please.

P.S.: Earlier I posted: "That page in 589 is the sole reason, why hope for Sabo still exists, that can't be denied.^^" Also, bad story telling to you, not for me. He did fulfill his purpose. Oda can depict it however he wants, his purpose could have been to create a discussion and that idea has prospered greatly, as one can see from the discussion back than. After that, Sabo has been repeatedly been said to be dead, even had a tribute cover in the animal series, which I see as an conclusion to his part in the series.

Shisu
May 24, 2012, 01:57 PM
The person known as "Sabo" is dead.
There's no way that this (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c589/7.html) page refers to some fodder. It's Sabo, but well there's a lot stuff that can happen when you are on the verge of death. Most likely he lost his memories, gained a new name and lives as a revolutionary now.

Basically, a new life as a new person.

hoeru
May 24, 2012, 02:21 PM
What if the page refers to Dragon himself? Or Kuma? We see Dragon, "hear" Ivankov, but there's no trace of ... Kuma!

See, without knowing to who this dialogue refers, it could mean anyone but Roger (already dead), Kuina and Zoro (seen training) and Ivankov (who was yelling at Dragon).

k-dom
May 24, 2012, 02:22 PM
Sabo's death had a great emotional influence on both Ace and Luffy.

Are you still dead serious on Sabo's death scenes not being emotional at all? Or have you simply not read those chapters? I know many here at MH dislike OP flashbacks because they want the plot to continue. But it's actually not that good to skip or skim through them without reading them as close as the rest of the story.

And if the death scene was "emotional" or not isn't actually relevant whether or not Sabo is dead.

I speak for my own but I found that Luffy's flashback was one of the weakest of all. In term of emotion, I was 100 times more touched by Chopper, Robin or even Nami ones. So yes, Sabo death was not really emotional to me but that is not really an argument for him being alive or not.


But it's not one Databook but two (Green and Blue Deep). And errors withing a databook are corrected in the next one. We already know that from One Piece Red to One Piece Blue when Sanji's age was corrected.
Since when are Databook proof of something. They are just resume of the manga, so it basically as if you say that Sabo is dead in the manga so far. They have no added value. In case Dragon saved Sabo, do you expect them to say : "Sabo was shot by a tenryubito but saved by dragon". The only thing that databooks reveal is the name of characters that will never appear again.


Cezgeth
P.S.: Earlier I posted: "That page in 589 is the sole reason, why hope for Sabo still exists, that can't be denied.^^"

It's the sole reason but a seriously strong one. Honestly, is there another interpretation for this panel ?
I don't really care if he is alive or not, but if he was alive, that would make Ace death even more unfair since, him thinking Sabo was dead, had a really huge impact on his and luffy's life.

Uriel
May 24, 2012, 06:44 PM
It's not about databook, but I think it was in SBS stated that Sabo was death. Can't remember which one, though.

Ninja_Pirate
May 17, 2013, 04:26 AM
SBS Volume 68

D: Oda-chi! I went to see the One Piece Exhibition. At that time, chapter 668, "Pirate Alliance" was the chapter in Jump!!! In the "From the Decks of the World" picture, there were three sake cups in front of Ace's grave!!! Is it alright to think THAT person visited Ace's grave?? I expect that only Luffy and that person really know for sure... P.N. Hairdresser Gonke

O: Right, this is the image from chapter 668 that's in this very volume, but when it appeared in Jump, the advertisement messages covered up some parts and readers couldn't see it all very well. But at that time, the One Piece Exhibition was in Tokyo, and the person who wrote this letter went and saw the original image to confirm. You can also confirm it with this very volume. As for what you should think when you see this, well, I'll leave that to your imaginations for now.

I have not noticed it obviously ... does this give any idea ??????????????

vagabond87
May 17, 2013, 07:12 AM
Its like confirming of Sabo being alive.

And I am so sure I wrote abou this here or on Arlong Park forums not so long ago.. So sure that my head hurts :gwah I cant find that post right now -.- damn...

Ninja_Pirate
May 17, 2013, 07:19 AM
Its funny that i remember someone mentioning that ... But others went on saying "he is too obsessed with sabo being alive and trying to see thing which does not exist" .... The pic is actually not clear to see three cups there .... But SBS confirmed it .. So I guess that's a proof .. and I like the playfulness of Oda there saying

"As for what you should think when you see this, well, I'll leave that to your imaginations for now"

I am sure oda chose that questions of many , because the question has been asked with THAT person in mind

Now let our imaginations go wild .....

vagabond87
May 17, 2013, 07:25 AM
Its funny that i remember someone mentioning that ... But others went on saying "he is too obsessed with sabo being alive and trying to see thing which does not exist" .... The pic is actually not clear to see three cups there .... But SBS confirmed it .. So I guess that's a proof .. and I like the playfulness of Oda there saying

"As for what you should think when you see this, well, I'll leave that to your imaginations for now"

I am sure oda chose that questions of many , because the question has been asked with THAT person in mind

Now let our imaginations go wild .....

I posted link to this and quoted almost all of it(at least I think so, maybe I was drunk or dreaming about posting this lol)
http://allmangareviews.blogspot.com/2013/02/one-piece-speculation-oda-hinting.html

and here you have better picture
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V5oDMceuWzw/URsI5Hx8-1I/AAAAAAAAEO8/622Tr5Ru6dg/s1600/graves+of+ace+and+whitebeard.jpg

Ninja_Pirate
May 17, 2013, 07:44 AM
Sabo is alive,you can see just 2 cups and i assume there are 3,we have to wait for a better version of the cover

Found it ... the first post to depict that ... kudos to this :)

And the post against it... (I just remebered reading it)



That ain't Sabo's grave, so there's no need for a third cup. Or it's just two cups for both Ace and Newgate, or the traditional way with one for the griever, one for the dead. Every thought about that? Sabo is dead until Oda retcons the story. Is there a need for him to be alive, plotwise?[I await a honest answer. :)]



---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

Oops... That wasnt the first ... but this one.. This guy only did one post till date ... and thats also a useful one :D


Does anyone else think that the cover implied that Sabo had visited Ace's grave. I would think that anyone who was visiting Ace would also put a drink down for Whitebeard too (huge one at that) unless it was Sabo.

alelucas
May 17, 2013, 10:58 AM
It's a hint that Sabo is alive. No doubt. There are sake bottle, three glasses and a newspaper IN FRONT OF ACE'S GRAVE and flowers in front of Whitebeard's. Sake to Ace, Luffy and Sabo reminding their eternal brotherhood. Flowers to Whitebeard as a mark of respect because he gave his life trying to save bro Ace's life. Last but not least, the newspaper seems to show Ace that Strawhat Pirates are alive, or rather, lil bro Luffy is alive. That's it. Oda isn't a gratuitous mangaka.

MaZa
May 19, 2013, 03:14 AM
it is confirmed sabo is dead from mangafox "A databook revealed that the guy that everyone thought was Sabo was instead a dude named Bunny Joe. Another stated that Sabo is dead for real.

So we'll never see him as a revolutionary. In fact we'll never see him at all."

Schabrak
May 19, 2013, 10:04 AM
it is confirmed sabo is dead from mangafox "A databook revealed that the guy that everyone thought was Sabo was instead a dude named Bunny Joe. Another stated that Sabo is dead for real.

So we'll never see him as a revolutionary. In fact we'll never see him at all."
That's no a definite answer though, various people have gone into an actual discussion in this thread.^^ Databooks mirror the information of the manga, they don't reveal hidden truths unless the mangaka wants them too.

yoshidr
May 20, 2013, 12:57 PM
What makes people think Sabo is dead?? It shows a cannonball heading for his raft but it was never confirmed he died.... What if he jumped in the water? There could be many different ways he escaped death. A lot of us thought Bellamy died but hey he came back, and lastly who you think left the bottle with the cups in front of ace's grave? I'm certain it wasn't luffy.

Sproumfch
May 20, 2013, 03:41 PM
I think all the related strenght theories will be settled in a few weeks, thanks to Luffy putting everyon K.O. in the arena.

Ps : I know it's off topic, but where did you get that info? :

Then let me wake you up outright. Sabo is alive. Have a nice day. ^^
Oh well, the reason? Who else would give cup of sake of Ace's grave knowing the significance? Also, there's this indication with Dragon saving him.. and such. It's not given, but it's still more like 60% for Sabo being alive and 40% for him being dead than the vice-versa.

Razh
May 20, 2013, 03:53 PM
Ps : I know it's off topic, but where did you get that info? :

What info? It's all on the manga pages. Sake with 3 cups is on a cover story and Dragon carrying someone wounded is from Luffy's childhood flashback. These 2 give enough possibility that Sabo is still alive somewhere.

The databook calls Sabo dead, but databooks can't really give future plot spoilers, now can they?

BetaRuler
May 20, 2013, 04:00 PM
For Sabo Edit: Ignore that race bit to finding the page...
Heres the page about the graves with the cup and drink in front of it.
http://i12.mangareader.net/one-piece/668/one-piece-3325007.jpg


Also to note theres the newspaper on Aces grave with the news about Luffy setting sail again too, since the theme of this cover story was everyones reactions to Luffies setting sail again from Archipelago. SO... Who do you think would want to tell Ace, that Luffy was setting sail? JIMBEI? CMOOOOON DONT JOKE ABOUT!
One other page caught my attention tho, whose the guy with his back turned in this one? > http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/631


Also I asked ages back but didnt get a reply >=p how exactly is Bartolomeos name pronounced I wondered, since some of the translations spelt his name differently its got me curious

hoeru
May 20, 2013, 04:12 PM
What makes people think Sabo is dead??.

Do we have to go through this again? Dogura witnessed the scene and actually said that he died (in addition the death is confirmed by two data books).

The case of Bellamy is different as he only said that he lost a friend - which is now to be seen in a completely different light as Bellamy said that he lost his friends while getting to Skypiea. So they simply took different routes as Bellamy still wanted to become a Donquixote Pirate while Sarquis and the rest separated from the Donquixote Family.

Razh
May 20, 2013, 04:41 PM
Do we have to go through this again? Dogura witnessed the scene and actually said that he died (in addition the death is confirmed by two data books).

It's not a confirmed death. Dogura said he died? Please... It's One Piece we're talking about. Pell was carrying a bomb big enough to destroy the entire city and even had his goodbye speech and still survived. Databooks compile information from the past chapters and give some extra info that doesn't affect the plot. They can't be expected to give possible spoilers. Ultimately, Oda has the last word and he has given plenty of hints that he could be alive. There is no good explanation for a bottle at Ace's grave or Dragon carrying someone wounded. If you think those are just non important coincidences, ok. I won't be fooled again by Oda and his non important details.

How did this become about Sabo anyway?

Awesome
May 20, 2013, 04:51 PM
For Sabo Edit: Ignore that race bit to finding the page...
Heres the page about the graves with the cup and drink in front of it.
http://i12.mangareader.net/one-piece/668/one-piece-3325007.jpg


Also to note theres the newspaper on Aces grave with the news about Luffy setting sail again too, since the theme of this cover story was everyones reactions to Luffies setting sail again from Archipelago. SO... Who do you think would want to tell Ace, that Luffy was setting sail? JIMBEI? CMOOOOON DONT JOKE ABOUT!
One other page caught my attention tho, whose the guy with his back turned in this one? > http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/631


Also I asked ages back but didnt get a reply >=p how exactly is Bartolomeos name pronounced I wondered, since some of the translations spelt his name differently its got me curious

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/01/07/o/read50eaaf55b0746/img000009.png

Better cleaned picture showing 3 cups.

yoshidr
May 20, 2013, 07:28 PM
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/01/07/o/read50eaaf55b0746/img000009.png

Better cleaned picture showing 3 cups.

I found that to be weird that on the original chapter 668 it only shows one cup but when i Google it there's images with 3 cups like the one you cited, is that a mistake Oda made and try to erased it or someone made it up?????? because if is Oda work im pretty sure Sabo is alive; anyways why would he want to introduce Sabo as soon as Ace died.... and about that image on chapter 631 is a possibility it may be Sabo he has long blonde hair plus in order to go to the new world he has to pass by the doctor maybe he seen the straw hat logo on the whale and stopped by to talk about the SH and how crazy Luffy is. One piece is the only manga i put so much thought into, Oda why cant you just give me the next 3 months one piece issue i cant take this weekly release anymore :m3j

hokageji
May 20, 2013, 09:12 PM
The 3 cups could be for anyone who visited and associated themselves with ace and whitebeard.
Check the following images in the order posted:


http://imgur.com/a/AbGXP#15

http://imgur.com/a/AbGXP#31

http://imgur.com/a/AbGXP#47



I believe the cup covers the journey of this guy, possibly a nakama of Gol Roger himself. I believe it is likely to Bronze, what forums have come up with. He would show his respects to Roger's son and whitebeard as well, and he has been drinking throughout his visit.

It doesnt prove its not sabo , but nothing can really prove or disprove it. Anywyas, we relly wouldnt know till it is actually covered, no point discussing about it.


I think the person whom Bartolemo is fighting for is the guy who will help luffy win this war with dofla directly or indirectly.

vagabond87
May 20, 2013, 11:41 PM
The 3 cups could be for anyone who visited and associated themselves with ace and whitebeard.
Check the following images in the order posted:


http://imgur.com/a/AbGXP#15

http://imgur.com/a/AbGXP#31

http://imgur.com/a/AbGXP#47



I believe the cup covers the journey of this guy, possibly a nakama of Gol Roger himself. I believe it is likely to Bronze, what forums have come up with. He would show his respects to Roger's son and whitebeard as well, and he has been drinking throughout his visit.

It doesnt prove its not sabo , but nothing can really prove or disprove it. Anywyas, we relly wouldnt know till it is actually covered, no point discussing about it.


I think the person whom Bartolemo is fighting for is the guy who will help luffy win this war with dofla directly or indirectly.

Its really BIG freaking hint to Sabo being alive, you sound like you want to find unexpected way for Bronze to be shown.. Yet its not logical to connect him in this way to Aces grave and cups. As for this discussion its like repetition of what was going on in Sabo thread few days ago so better just look there instead of "Sabo this Sabo that" here.

Look what you can find there:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V5oDMceuWzw/URsI5Hx8-1I/AAAAAAAAEO8/622Tr5Ru6dg/s1600/graves+of+ace+and+whitebeard.jpg

Link to http://allmangareviews.blogspot.com/2013/02/one-piece-speculation-oda-hinting.html explanation
Now be kind enough to Explain how Bronze get to know about kids secret from so long ago? Only Sabo, Luffy and Ace knew about those cups. Only.

Ninja_Pirate
May 21, 2013, 12:12 AM
SURPRISE>.... There is a thread for it

Sabo Thread ------------------>>>> http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/60729-Sabo-Thread/page9

For three cups ..... It has been hinted by Oda in SBS Volume 68 .... I personally would like to take that hint as a confirmation from Oda

D: Oda-chi! I went to see the One Piece Exhibition. At that time, chapter 668, "Pirate Alliance" was the chapter in Jump!!! In the "From the Decks of the World" picture, there were three sake cups in front of Ace's grave!!! Is it alright to think THAT person visited Ace's grave?? I expect that only Luffy and that person really know for sure... P.N. Hairdresser Gonke

O: Right, this is the image from chapter 668 that's in this very volume, but when it appeared in Jump, the advertisement messages covered up some parts and readers couldn't see it all very well. But at that time, the One Piece Exhibition was in Tokyo, and the person who wrote this letter went and saw the original image to confirm. You can also confirm it with this very volume. As for what you should think when you see this, well, I'll leave that to your imaginations for now.

Lets continue here ... :) .... http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/60729-Sabo-Thread/page10

alelucas
May 21, 2013, 08:28 AM
One other page caught my attention tho, whose the guy with his back turned in this one? > http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/631

It's interesting.

The series 'From the Decks of the Word' didn't portrait unknown or face-hidden characters except that guy with crocus (New World's entry) in Ch 631's Cover Story.

So would that long-haired guy really be a character not previously seen?

And the final volume of 'From the Decks of the World' told us someone paid a visit to Ace & WB's Graves (somewhere in New World). Gratuitously?

http://i20.mangareader.net/one-piece/631/one-piece-2454647.jpg

Schabrak
May 21, 2013, 09:12 AM
Should/Could be Scopper Gaban as the last of the three names full-time members of Gols crew. Long hair, but grey because of age.

alelucas
May 21, 2013, 10:12 AM
Should/Could be Scopper Gaban as the last of the three names full-time members of Gols crew. Long hair, but grey because of age.

It's possible, I agree: same hair style and crocus' friend.

One question: even if he's that guy, why would his face be the only one hidden in the entire series 'From the Decks of the World'?

Sproumfch
May 21, 2013, 11:00 AM
This man is one of Roger's crew, I think we can hardly doubt about this. He's hidden because the crew didn't met him yet.
I won't vote here because I really don't know if Oda will pull him to Luffy's journey again !

hoeru
May 21, 2013, 02:16 PM
SURPRISE>.... There is a thread for it

Sabo Thread ------------------>>>> http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/60729-Sabo-Thread/page9

For three cups ..... It has been hinted by Oda in SBS Volume 68 .... I personally would like to take that hint as a confirmation from Oda

D: Oda-chi! I went to see the One Piece Exhibition. At that time, chapter 668, "Pirate Alliance" was the chapter in Jump!!! In the "From the Decks of the World" picture, there were three sake cups in front of Ace's grave!!! Is it alright to think THAT person visited Ace's grave?? I expect that only Luffy and that person really know for sure... P.N. Hairdresser Gonke

O: Right, this is the image from chapter 668 that's in this very volume, but when it appeared in Jump, the advertisement messages covered up some parts and readers couldn't see it all very well. But at that time, the One Piece Exhibition was in Tokyo, and the person who wrote this letter went and saw the original image to confirm. You can also confirm it with this very volume. As for what you should think when you see this, well, I'll leave that to your imaginations for now.

Lets continue here ... :) .... http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/60729-Sabo-Thread/page10

Why are neither Garp nor Dadan (nor both) options to have left those three cups? Why MUST Sabo be the only option to have left them there?


The series 'From the Decks of the Word' didn't portrait unknown or face-hidden characters except that guy with crocus (New World's entry) in Ch 631's Cover Story.

... except Makino's baby who's father is unknown, too ...

alelucas
May 21, 2013, 04:21 PM
... except Makino's baby who's father is unknown, too ...

Makino's husband (or only her baby's father) wasn't portraited there, whereas that guy was portraited and his face was hidden. So they're distinct cases.

Razh
May 23, 2013, 05:57 AM
Why are neither Garp nor Dadan (nor both) options to have left those three cups? Why MUST Sabo be the only option to have left them there?

Because it was supposed to be a secret between the 3 of them, their private bonding ritual. So it's natural to assume Sabo is the only one who would know. Also, those 3 cups would mean nothing to Garp or Dadan. If they were going to put some memento on Ace's grave, they would probably put something connecting them and Ace, not something they don't have anything to do with.

Aside the fact that there's no hint or anything that would suggest anyone but Ace, Luffy and Sabo knew anything about their shared drinks. Unless Ace stole the bottle and 3 cups from Dadan's house and then she pieced the evidence together and decided to go to New World to visit Ace's grave after she heard he had died, so she can put the bottle and 3 cups on his grave.

We know Oda doesn't put these kinds of hints for luls.

Grodus
October 02, 2013, 07:01 PM
The databooks are not written by Oda from what I know. Insteas ge put plenty hints in the manga that he is alive. But yeah this is off topic.

About Sanji health ; the fact that he was beaten by Violet or Vergo is of no importance, One Piece is a shonen....

Actually k-dom, Oda DOES write the Databooks. He confirmed Sabo is dead. I don't know where you're getting these non-existent hints.

Which is why it's rather ignorant to say that Gladius is Sabo. He's a new, original character, not Sabo.

M3J
October 02, 2013, 07:07 PM
Don't care for the databooks, Oda did hint at Sabo possibly being alive. Until it's confirmed in the manga, his death isn't canon. Screw the databooks, they don't have complete information, just what's shown in the manga.

If Oda does switch back to Block D and make us suffer through Rebecca's fight, I will hate Rebecca. -_-

Grodus
October 02, 2013, 07:17 PM
Don't care for the databooks, Oda did hint at Sabo possibly being alive. Until it's confirmed in the manga, his death isn't canon. Screw the databooks, they don't have complete information, just what's shown in the manga.

If Oda does switch back to Block D and make us suffer through Rebecca's fight, I will hate Rebecca. -_-

Then you're ignoring what Oda said. He already confirmed Sabo's death in the manga, in Luffy's flashback. Oda made the Databooks to supplement his manga and they're canon.

All this "Sabo is alive" nonsense is fanon, not canon.

Also this:

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Mythbusters/Speculations#Sabo_survived.21

I don't see why it's so hard to accept that Oda confirmed Sabo's death.

In fact this Sabo obsession comes pretty close to being a fanwank:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanWank

It bugs me so much because it's blatantly ignorant to deny or ignore what the author has said. I understand that some of you want Sabo to be alive, but Oda said and shown that he's dead. Accept it and move on!

M3J
October 02, 2013, 08:23 PM
Then you're ignoring what Oda said. He already confirmed Sabo's death in the manga, in Luffy's flashback. Oda made the Databooks to supplement his manga and they're canon.
Where did he confirm that? Did we see the body? Did we see anything to confirm his death? We saw the ship explode, and then Dragon bringing a body onto the ship. Nowhere has it been confirmed Sabo is dead.

I don't care what he did with the databooks. Again, they don't have full information. If they do, then tell me what happens to Sanji after he fights Doflamingo. Are there any new characters that join the Strawhat crews in the next few arcs? Do the databooks state this? I'm willing to bet the databooks even changed or added information as the series progressed.


All this "Sabo is alive" nonsense is fanon, not canon.
Theory, not "fanon."


Also this:

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Mythbusters/Speculations#Sabo_survived.21

I don't see why it's so hard to accept that Oda confirmed Sabo's death.
Because he didn't. I want to see it in the manga itself, not the databook that can be changed.


It bugs me so much because it's blatantly ignorant to deny or ignore what the author has said. I understand that some of you want Sabo to be alive, but Oda said and shown that he's dead. Accept it and move on!

I don't care if Sabo's dead or alive, but nothing points to him being dead. Based on what the flashback revealed, Dragon could have saved Sabo.

Again, prove otherwise without using databooks if you can. If you can't, then yeah, good game.

Schabrak
October 02, 2013, 08:37 PM
Then you're ignoring what Oda said. He already confirmed Sabo's death in the manga, in Luffy's flashback. Oda made the Databooks to supplement his manga and they're canon.

All this "Sabo is alive" nonsense is fanon, not canon.

The "Greg" already confirmed One Piece Deep Blue to be "full" of mistakes, and his opinion is worth more than a random editor from WSJ. :P

Actually there is a reason to believe in him being alive due to the "rescued" talk from Ivankov/Dragon and the three cup gravestone Cover Story page. The hints from the original tankobom manga > any data book.

Also, fanfiction, not fanon. :/ Are you trying to degrade it for some reason? oO

Remember Pell? He is the reason why no character is dead until we see a corpse. It's One Piece 101.

Grodus
October 02, 2013, 08:40 PM
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120302150006/onepiece/images/8/88/Sabo_morto_green.png&imgrefurl=http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Sabo&h=550&w=1089&sz=114&tbnid=ECQztc_Xgv1vuM:&tbnh=58&tbnw=114&zoom=1&usg=__CJGtiCTr_1NDmzDbz9mYXAhYbgk=&docid=poJ7tfy2yivqqM&sa=X&ei=fMlMUsSJOsGsiAL9iIHICQ&ved=0CFcQ9QEwBQ

This link is to the part in "One Piece Green" that confirms Sabo's death. Denying that is sheer willful ignorance. The whole reason I brought this up is because a few of you are claiming that Gladius is Sabo, which is wrong. These "theories", which are fanon no matter how you rationalize it, make no sense whatsoever because Oda said himself that Sabo is dead. We didn't see his body, but other characters in the chapter were saying he's dead. Until Oda says otherwise, Sabo is dead.

@M3J - I'm only using the information that Oda provides. There's nothing cryptic about it. You're being ridiculously purist about it with your "only the manga counts" approach. The Databooks are a part of the canon. Oda writes them to fill in the gaps he left out in the manga. You want Sabo alive to fulfill your fanwanking fantasies. It's pretty sad that you'll go as far as saying that Oda himself is wrong, nevermind that he clearly said Sabo is dead.

M3J
October 02, 2013, 09:40 PM
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120302150006/onepiece/images/8/88/Sabo_morto_green.png&imgrefurl=http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Sabo&h=550&w=1089&sz=114&tbnid=ECQztc_Xgv1vuM:&tbnh=58&tbnw=114&zoom=1&usg=__CJGtiCTr_1NDmzDbz9mYXAhYbgk=&docid=poJ7tfy2yivqqM&sa=X&ei=fMlMUsSJOsGsiAL9iIHICQ&ved=0CFcQ9QEwBQ

This link is to the part in "One Piece Green" that confirms Sabo's death. Denying that is sheer willful ignorance. The whole reason I brought this up is because a few of you are claiming that Gladius is Sabo, which is wrong. These "theories", which are fanon no matter how you rationalize it, make no sense whatsoever because Oda said himself that Sabo is dead. We didn't see his body, but other characters in the chapter were saying he's dead. Until Oda says otherwise, Sabo is dead.

@M3J - I'm only using the information that Oda provides. There's nothing cryptic about it. You're being ridiculously purist about it with your "only the manga counts" approach. The Databooks are a part of the canon. Oda writes them to fill in the gaps he left out in the manga. You want Sabo alive to fulfill your fanwanking fantasies. It's pretty sad that you'll go as far as saying that Oda himself is wrong, nevermind that he clearly said Sabo is dead.

So basically, you have no proof in the manga that Sabo is dead. Good game.

I never said Oda was wrong. Where did I say that? If you read my post correctly, you'd see that I said the information could have been incomplete or misleading on purpose. Again, databooks may be written by mangaka, but they're less canon than manga. You're just clinging onto hope that Sabo is dead with the only flimsy evidence in databooks.

Of course I'm being a "purist," manga has far more evidence and proof that can't be contradicted than databooks do. Hell, characters saying Sabo is dead doesn't make it dead, it's just what they think. Crocodile fought Luffy and left him for dead, so he went around telling everyone Luffy was dead despite Luffy bein alive. Is that a fact?

Fact is, Oda has foreshadowed Sabo being alive. The only counter to Sabo bein alive is the databook, which may or may not be accurate. Tell me something - did any databook pre-Marineford War mention Sabo at all, or was it after the flashback?

Either way, when you have actual proof in the manga that Sabo is dead, then lemme know. Otherwise I'm done.

hoeru
October 03, 2013, 08:14 AM
I have to agree Kaiten in the current chapter thread.


Did he see the body? Did he confirm the kill?

Dogura saw Sabo on the boat, the explosion and confirmed the death and even took a beating from Ace without backing off from his words.


Didn't we have eyewitnesses to Pell's death, only to see he's still alive?

Pell was revealed alive only weeks after his "death". Were is such a part about Sabo after all those years? Right, there is none.


Again, without body, death means nothing here.

Wrong, as Sabo died in a flashback. Anything so far we have seen about people dying in a flashback means a 100% sure death without any doubts whatsoever. Or are you even doubting now that Robin is the last survival of Ohara because there's no corpse to be seen from the bombardment? Or Banchina is probably also happily alive somewhere hiding from Usopp and Yasopp...


Again, databooks mean nothing. It's funny how people only have databooks to fall back on when arguing Sabo is dead.

Well, just keep denying that data books are the condensed knowledge about the manga while making fun of people falling back on them. The text about Sabo being dead was the same both in Green and Blue Deep in the original version. So it's completely pointless to deny their liability on that part just because people want their wish to come true as that text was revised at least twice without being changed after the second time.


How did this whole Sabo discussion pop up anyway?

You picked it up, so you have to know it.


You guys will theorize Rebecca winning, getting mera mera no mi, or even joining the crew, but will think Sabo is dead just because some databook that doesn't have complete info says so. Hmph.

What does Rebecca now have to do with Sabo being dead? Or where did especially I theorise anything about Rebecca winning (I hope she does, but I never pulled a THEORY on that), nor getting the Mera Mera power (I hope she does, but I never pulled a THEORY), nor anything about her joining the crew (I hoped she would do, but after the flashback that hope is gone).

So what was your point in bringing up Rebecca aside from a failed change of topic?

Schabrak
October 03, 2013, 09:05 AM
And right in the evening we have one of Dragon's men talk about finding somebody wounded.

There couldn't/can't be one, it would take the suprise obviously, especially since Sabo was only introduced in the flashback directly before the time-skip and we still haven't gotten a RA arc/saga. Ever thought about the cover story pic showing all three as adults being a red herring, so readers will concentrate on the actual current plot? Showing Sabo shortly after would have taken away from Luffy's resolve to conquer the New World. It would in a way take away some credibility.

You realize how childish it is to pull those other instances? You are reducing Oda to a formula with such statements.

But it's you who keeps ignoring that the databooks have mistakes and can very well be erroneous. Again, it's Greg, the most famous One Piece fan alive that confirmed that and he's studied the series and data books than likely anybody else.



Again, databooks mean nothing. It's funny how people only have databooks to fall back on when arguing Sabo is dead. How did this whole Sabo discussion pop up anyway?
Similarities to Doffy and Gladius hat.^^

M3J brought it up because we are allowed to discuss topics that some users deem ridiculous, reaching or crazy. Yet quiestioning Sabo's dead because there are two instances in the actual manga that create doubt shouldn't?

Also pay attention to his words please, he used a plural to talk about the whole community. I would rather blame EddyBob15 for putting so much attention at her bumping everything around Rebecca in multiple threads. Not that it wasn't entertaining or wrong.

hoeru, never go full-fanboy.:3c

hoeru
October 03, 2013, 11:35 AM
And right in the evening we have one of Dragon's men talk about finding somebody wounded.

...with no one else but Kuma missing in the following panels.


You realize how childish it is to pull those other instances? You are reducing Oda to a formula with such statements.

It's like you (all) calling it a "101 of One Piece" that we would need to see a corpse to confirm a death citing other instances - which is nonsense as most of those flashback deaths were without seeing any corpse at all, including Roger, Banchina and all citizens of Ohara.

How many characters that were introduced in a flashback survived such a scene with more than just one eye whitness? Sabo's ship was blown up in front of all citizens watching the Tenryuubito's arrival. Dogura watched it with binoculars.


But it's you who keeps ignoring that the databooks have mistakes and can very well be erroneous. Again, it's Greg, the most famous One Piece fan alive that confirmed that and he's studied the series and data books than likely anybody else.

I know very well that they are errornous at some parts, as I used to point that out myself. But Greg did not comment on Sabo's text being the same in TWO data books, did he? It's 100% the same text in both Green AND Blue Deep - Kanji by Kanji.

Sure they are not to be taken lightly, but they are a reliable source as summaries because errors used to be corrected from one data book to the following one - like Sanji's wrong age in Red, which was corrected in Blue, then Yellow, and then Green.

So, how great is the possibility that this text is wrong TWICE?


hoeru, never go full-fanboy.:3c

Please, tell that those Sabo fanboys that keep pointing on every single new male character with either a bit of dialogue or some mysterical looking features. As we're talking, I know that there's still gaps even in Ace's farewell scene which could Oda make hook in some flash back panel for Sabo being reintroduced - but only due to manga being sequential story telling.

But the current canon is just as simple: Based on our current facts, Sabo is dead, confirmed by eye whitnesses, confirmed by the farewell letter, confirmed by databooks, confirmed by the fact that neither Ace nor Luffy lost a single word about Sabo outside of that flashback about Sabo.

Razh
October 03, 2013, 11:54 AM
I for one don't think we've seen Sabo so far. All that stuff with Cyborg Sabo was just a joke, at least that's how I used it. Gladius will always be Cyborg Sabo for me :p

But no databook can detest the fact that Oda purposely put in some hints that allow possibility of Sabo's survival. One just needs to sift through this thread a little. It's tiresome to copy links all the time for lazy people. In short, there's Dragon carrying someone wounded, 3 cups in front of Ace's grave, and Oda's confusing answer on SBS about those 3 cups on the grave (http://kuro-hachi.tumblr.com/post/34766407721/ooooh-this-is-awesome-okay-ill-translate-it). You can notice Oda didn't say:"Sabo's dead, I already said that in databooks, can't you guys read?"

Every time someone was confirmed dead in One Piece, there was no doubt left. For Sabo, not only did we not see him actually die, but Oda keeps teasing us with small hints. This is not much different than Pell getting his head cover after supposedly exploding. If he was never shown again, ok. Dead. If Oda wanted to erase all doubt Sabo was dead, there would be no Dragon on his boat and Iwankov talking about treating someone wounded, let alone 3 cups on the grave. Why even put that in manga if there's no significance? Confirmed death my ass. Is all I'm saying.

kkck
October 03, 2013, 12:10 PM
Oda has given enough hints at sabo being alive by now. That shouldn't even be the discussion at this point, the issue should be what exactly he has been doing and whether he became a revolutionary. Also, kuma was shown among the revolutionaries with dragon in the flashback.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-52556-15/one-piece/chapter-587.html
The only reason to event tell us about finding a wounded person would be that that person is no other than sabo.... Its the only thing which makes sense contextually. I guess sabo could have still died from his wounds but IMO thats unlikely.

hokageji
October 03, 2013, 12:42 PM
Yes, Sabo is alive for a simple reason, why would Oda introduce him if he just wanted to kill him off....

I remember a discussion about Bellamy being dead because he didnt appear in the databook, but we saw him now. Oda wants to keep his existence a secret and that is why he is leaving things murky.

Anyways, one more thing about Sabo. He would be hte only person who would know about Dragon's origin. Dragon being from East Blue. Ivankov never did, i doubt others did too.

k-dom
October 03, 2013, 01:36 PM
To bad Razh previous post was deleted as it summarized perfectly everything I think on this subject. Those who believe that they are a proof of Sabo's death are misunderstanding there purpose. I agree there is no mistake in them saying that Sabo is dead but since they can't say anything else even if he is alive then what kind of proof is that ?
On the other hand we have in the manga, 2 major hints of his survival which make no sense if they are not about Sabo. If there was really no doubt then Oda instead of remaining vague when asked the question would have made a bad joke like he always does.

M3J
October 03, 2013, 02:03 PM
IMO anyone who says Sabo is confirmed to be death is extremely delusional. If you want to say Sabo is dead or you think he's dead, go ahead, but it's no different from people claiming he could be alive. We know Sabo's ship exploded/caught on fire with him in it. We also know that Dragon brought a wounded boy on the ship, and if I recall, blamed Tenryuubito. I'm not sure if Dragon met Sabo beforehand though, I forgot if he did.

How does Gladius look like Sabo? I see absolutely no resemblance whatsoever.... Bartamoleo looks more like Sabo than Gladius.

Razh
October 03, 2013, 02:49 PM
How does Gladius look like Sabo? I see absolutely no resemblance whatsoever.... Bartamoleo looks more like Sabo than Gladius.

Nah, it was just his hat. When he first appeared and shot Baby 5 while she was rampaging, someone called him Cyborg Sabo, which I thought was hillarious. After that the name kinda caught on. But the hats aren't even that similar, really.

I suppose there is a slight possibility that it is Sabo with his scarred body covered, working undercover for Revolutionaries, but come on! That would be the worst thing ever.

Yeah, Dragon met him before:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-52248-18/one-piece/chapter-586.html

After reading One Piece so long, I can't believe it's a coincidence Dragon and Sabo met, and Dragon ended up carrying someone wounded to his ship after Sabo supposedly died from explosions.

Schabrak
October 03, 2013, 03:30 PM
What does Kuma have to do with anything here? How does it matter where he is, he will have been a strong pirate by that time already and there is really nothing to fear in the East.

Nah pay attention please, he only uses the a field glass at the very beginning to confirm Sabo's identity. He's pretty far away and Sabo could have been on the debris with enough room to keep him hidden.

http://i1.minus.com/iraSBG5py4yAn.png

What's more, look at the red box and underlined text, Oda especially puts the attention that it is the same day of the attack on Sabo? What freaking reason would he have to do that? It had no meaning but to remind us that it was the day of the attack.

http://i3.minus.com/ibye0dRyOQUgpm.png

About the text in Green and Deep Blue, of fucking course it's unchanged, there is absolutely no reason to reveal him as being alive before and if he get's a re-entrance into the plot. Keeping the truth hidden would be reasonable if Oda intends to keep him out of the story.

It's silly to call a character dead until we see him being so, One Piece should have taught you that years ago, I know you are rabid fan of it too. Remember Bentham who was supposedly about to die due to Magellan, only to have him reappear as the new queen of New Okamaland.



How does Gladius look like Sabo? I see absolutely no resemblance whatsoever.... Bartamoleo looks more like Sabo than Gladius.
That's because we only saw the outline of his hat and not it's true form, a covered body with a mechanical touch to it could have explained a burned/crippled body. Though him being Sabo made no actual sense.^^

http://i4.minus.com/iMHNbyTpdZozt.png

M3J
October 03, 2013, 05:15 PM
Nah, it was just his hat. When he first appeared and shot Baby 5 while she was rampaging, someone called him Cyborg Sabo, which I thought was hillarious. After that the name kinda caught on. But the hats aren't even that similar, really.

I suppose there is a slight possibility that it is Sabo with his scarred body covered, working undercover for Revolutionaries, but come on! That would be the worst thing ever.

Yeah, Dragon met him before:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-52248-18/one-piece/chapter-586.html

After reading One Piece so long, I can't believe it's a coincidence Dragon and Sabo met, and Dragon ended up carrying someone wounded to his ship after Sabo supposedly died from explosions.
Why the worst thing ever? What if Sabo has amnesia?

What does Kuma have to do with anything here? How does it matter where he is, he will have been a strong pirate by that time already and there is really nothing to fear in the East.

Nah pay attention please, he only uses the a field glass at the very beginning to confirm Sabo's identity. He's pretty far away and Sabo could have been on the debris with enough room to keep him hidden.

http://i1.minus.com/iraSBG5py4yAn.png

What's more, look at the red box and underlined text, Oda especially puts the attention that it is the same day of the attack on Sabo? What freaking reason would he have to do that? It had no meaning but to remind us that it was the day of the attack.

http://i3.minus.com/ibye0dRyOQUgpm.png

About the text in Green and Deep Blue, of fucking course it's unchanged, there is absolutely no reason to reveal him as being alive before and if he get's a re-entrance into the plot. Keeping the truth hidden would be reasonable if Oda intends to keep him out of the story.

It's silly to call a character dead until we see him being so, One Piece should have taught you that years ago, I know you are rabid fan of it too. Remember Bentham who was supposedly about to die due to Magellan, only to have him reappear as the new queen of New Okamaland.


That's because we only saw the outline of his hat and not it's true form, a covered body with a mechanical touch to it could have explained a burned/crippled body. Though him being Sabo made no actual sense.^^

http://i4.minus.com/iMHNbyTpdZozt.png

Hmm, hat looks different and there's no gogglel I could see Sabo putting on goggle for nostalgia's sake.

Schabrak
October 03, 2013, 05:38 PM
Why the worst thing ever? What if Sabo has amnesia?
Amnesia has a bad reputation when used in manga. :P That's why I would like him to remember everything, especially since he would have worked with Luffy's father all these years.


Hmm, hat looks different and there's no gogglel I could see Sabo putting on goggle for nostalgia's sake.
Looks like glasses/compact goggles to me, even in that panel from 682. Changing the hat from time to time can be nice, not everyone wants to wear a sweaty strawhat all their live long.^^

http://i2.minus.com/izOFddfraccvr.png

M3J
October 03, 2013, 06:15 PM
Could happen though. Sabo forgets, meets Luffy, starts to remember, and it's a merry reunification.

No, I meant on the hat. Sabo's worn the same hat for years,a nd it seems Ace did as well. Though he likely has a new hat, I thought he'd put goggle on it.

k-dom
October 03, 2013, 11:49 PM
Amnesia doesn't work with the sake cups though

M3J
October 04, 2013, 01:12 AM
True, but it may not necessarily be Sabo's cup. What if Luffy put another cup there to symbolize the trio's bond? Or Garp, even?

Razh
October 04, 2013, 03:34 AM
Don't you get tired of trolling like that? :p

You must be bored. Or just evil, haha.

M3J
October 04, 2013, 12:19 PM
I'm not trolling, I'm just open to different possibilities. I personally think Sabo could be alive, but I'm all about hard proof that can't be contradicted... not easily anyway.

Razh
October 04, 2013, 01:37 PM
Only proof that couldn't be contradicted is Sabo actually appearing and saying - It's me, Sabo!

At least for people who believe databook info over what has actually happened in manga. But seriously, the amnesia thing would have sucked. The world of OP is big, and Sabo could be anywhere or doing anything. He could have been half a world away when Ace's execution was announced. Not everyone can fly or teleport. Fact that he wasn't there, trying to save Ace is a poor argument.

M3J
October 04, 2013, 07:04 PM
What if he was too busy or didn't know about the execution because he was busy?

Asarii
October 05, 2013, 10:04 PM
It would be nice if Sabo was alive, but if he ends up showing up later on in the story, personally I would find that really cheap because of the following:

Ace and Luffy both set out on their journeys at age seventeen because Sabo couldn't, and the bond of the D Brothers also became closer BECAUSE of Sabo's death. The reason why Luffy was so devastated and heartbroken shortly after Marineford was because he felt alone- only to remember afterwards that he had his crew and was not actually alone. Ace died believing that Sabo is dead, and that's why he said those last words to Luffy.

If it turns out that Sabo was alive and kicking after all? I would be sorely disappointed after everything that happened due to Sabo's death.

(Please stop labelling every new character as Sabo. If Sabo were to return, he would return as himself.)

Schabrak
October 05, 2013, 10:18 PM
Well Sabo in a way did die, his mission as a pirate would have been quashed, his relation to his bros hindered in a new postion as a revolutionary, similar to how Dragon has no contact with his family. It's not like they would support the same goal and ideals now.

Asarii
October 05, 2013, 10:43 PM
Couldn't Sabo have recovered on Dragon's ship and then set sail to become a pirate? Even after everything that had happened on Dawn Island, Sabo still set sail to become a pirate right up to his end.

It depends on when Ivankov got imprisoned of course**, but he would have said something implying Sabo when he met Luffy. A quote like, "Someone has been talking about you quite often" is ambiguous enough that it could either mean Dragon or Sabo. (The latter if we reread the quote after Luffy's flashback.) He could even say, "Your personality matches what he described about you" to further imply that the "he" is someone close to Luffy. (Note that Japanese doesn't use gendered pronouns.) Ever since Ace appeared with the ASCE tattoo, we can confidently say that Sabo was already created either as a character or a thought since Alabasta. I'm sure by the time Impel Down rolled around, Luffy's backstory and Sabo was already planned out in detail.

It's understandable that Dragon wouldn't talk a lot about Luffy, but surely Sabo would talk in great lengths about his brothers to other revolutionaries; they were the only people he loved after all.

**EDIT: Ivankov WAS present in Goa Kingdom so he would have met Sabo.

Schabrak
October 05, 2013, 11:00 PM
Him being just another pirate or rival to Luffy would be pointless.

And I doubt Ivankov had a reason to stay or even meet and visit Sabo to exchange any information. The Revolutionary Army has fights and missions all over the world, Ivankov was a commander himself, so they might have parted directly after arriving at Baltigo.

Asarii
October 05, 2013, 11:19 PM
Sabo could have mentioned Luffy to Dragon at least: "Hey, the guy who saved me and whom I met that night is Monkey D. Dragon. My brother is named Monkey D. Luffy...... wait a minute." If Sabo did become a revolutionary, Dragon would know that Sabo and Luffy share a close bond.

Even though I see both possibilities for Sabo's fate (although one would disappoint me more than the other tbh), I don't see him as a revolutionary. Maybe someone who is trying to change how the world is run but not a full fledged member.

M3J
October 05, 2013, 11:30 PM
It would be nice if Sabo was alive, but if he ends up showing up later on in the story, personally I would find that really cheap because of the following:

Ace and Luffy both set out on their journeys at age seventeen because Sabo couldn't, and the bond of the D Brothers also became closer BECAUSE of Sabo's death. The reason why Luffy was so devastated and heartbroken shortly after Marineford was because he felt alone- only to remember afterwards that he had his crew and was not actually alone. Ace died believing that Sabo is dead, and that's why he said those last words to Luffy.

If it turns out that Sabo was alive and kicking after all? I would be sorely disappointed after everything that happened due to Sabo's death.
I thought it was because of the pact they made. They all would have set out at 17 regardless. I'm not sure if this would cheapen things, considering Sabo might either not know or would not have been able to get in contact. What if Sabo had a good reason for not getting in touch with Luffy or Ace? Or even Luffy?


(Please stop labelling every new character as Sabo. If Sabo were to return, he would return as himself.)
Agreed.

Him being just another pirate or rival to Luffy would be pointless.

And I doubt Ivankov had a reason to stay or even meet and visit Sabo to exchange any information. The Revolutionary Army has fights and missions all over the world, Ivankov was a commander himself, so they might have parted directly after arriving at Baltigo.

Why so? It makes sense as they all agreed to have their own crews and become each other's rivals.

Schabrak
October 05, 2013, 11:45 PM
Because than him not being at the execution would make less sense Imo, but I'm starting to get repetitive.

edit:
He wouldn't be interesting anymore being "another" pirate. It would be out of nowhere, Luffy already has to deal with so many opponents in the New World: Silver Medalists, Lvl 6 escapees, Yonkou and subordinates, brokers, Marines, seperate kingdoms/islands. Oda led the RA plot brew in the background, never really revealing much, keeping the commanders hidden. Sabo appearing in a RA centered arc/saga would satisfy my expectations of a big buildup with some doubts and suprises.

Leifman
October 21, 2013, 02:28 AM
well, i wasn't that "caught up" in the one piece manga/anime to comment/raise my opinion up till now (was always post war/pre flashback previously) and now i watched the anime some more and will keep reading and just finished the 'sabo flashback/story arc' and all i have to say is this:
it is MORE THAN OBVIOUS that sabo = classic case like "obito" was in naruto.
we ALL KNEW/guessed that "tobi" was obito and were pretty much spot on due to obvious clues and such, here its exactly the same, the flashback wasn't just a "show how ace/luffy grewup" and the sabo character wasn't introduced for no reason or for the short time he was around.
seeing no body/official burial should be enough to hint ppl that he didn't really die, but to add the fact that dragon actually carried a child to his ship and ppl saying that it needed immediate doctor to heal and such is way "overkill" to solidify this "theory" and to be honest even more than obito had for his "theory" before it was proven.
also let me remind u that in one piece specifically to "kill someone" isn't something that oda does often/if rarely at all if that "eagle head guy" from alabasta could survive (which i laughed my ass off when i saw he did) and that guy with the jumping devil fruit ability.... after literally being shown getting killed and not just showing their hat/boat on flame then sabo will definitely make an appearance with dragon and the revolutionary when time comes.
the unknown factor will keep being the "why the hell weren't he around when ace/luffy needed him most" which will probably be something to do with the revolutionaries but who knows... but it HAS TO BE something significant.

Schabrak
November 18, 2013, 11:45 AM
hoeru, since the other thread was rightfully closed here is the question again:

I asked you why the author would reveal secrets in the databook, what's your answer?

M3J
November 18, 2013, 01:23 PM
I think he's just falling back on databook because he has no answer as to why Sabo would definitely be dead. I guess it's okay to use databooks for information, but setting store by it is a horrible idea. Databooks may list Sabo as dead now, but it's not a verified fact and won't be until the manga ends and Sabo truly is dead, or if we see concrete proof. There are at least two hints he's not dead, and no proof that he is dead. An eyewitness seeing someone die means nothing unless the eyewitness saw everything. Did he see Sabo's body? Confirm the kill? He only saw the Tenryuubito blow up Sabo's ship.

I find it funny and pathetic whenever people rely on databooks to back up what they say, most of the time. Reeks of desperation. There is a high chance Sabo's dead, but there's also a possibility that he is alive. He could also made some kind of pact to himself to not meet Luffy or Ace until they were all established, or he was too busy to meet them.

REN KOUEN
December 13, 2013, 07:17 PM
Sabo could have mentioned Luffy to Dragon at least: "Hey, the guy who saved me and whom I met that night is Monkey D. Dragon. My brother is named Monkey D. Luffy...... wait a minute." If Sabo did become a revolutionary, Dragon would know that Sabo and Luffy share a close bond.

Even though I see both possibilities for Sabo's fate (although one would disappoint me more than the other tbh), I don't see him as a revolutionary. Maybe someone who is trying to change how the world is run but not a full fledged member.

i believe him being a revolutoinary would be a nice plot twist

hokageji
December 13, 2013, 07:42 PM
Moving discussion from the manga chapter thread.


I believe Sabo suffered from Amnesia, which explains why he did not make it to Marinfold. The memories came back after hearing the death of Portgas D Ace and Dragon - Ivankov meet etc....

Jorge D. Dragon
December 14, 2013, 06:28 AM
It would be interesting to learn about Sabo's position in Revolutionay Army.
And in terms of strength I believe he should be the strongest among "three brothers" since he was the first to depart and was trained in RA from his childhood. So if he gets Ace's DF, he might become a real beast.:)

KuroKarasu
December 14, 2013, 08:21 AM
Moving discussion from the manga chapter thread.


I believe Sabo suffered from Amnesia, which explains why he did not make it to Marinfold. The memories came back after hearing the death of Portgas D Ace and Dragon - Ivankov meet etc....

I personally think that amnesia would be a very silly and cheap explanation. It's gonna be hard to find an explanation that doesn't suck but I just trust in Oda.

Asarii
December 14, 2013, 05:11 PM
My posts above seem so silly now, but hey, it can be great to be proven wrong. :)

It's nice that Sabo is alive, but it's sad that Ace passed away without that knowledge. I would like to see what was going through Sabo's mind or what he was doing during the Marineford Arc. Does he feel any regret? Is Ace's death the reason why Sabo decided to reintroduce himself to Luffy after not doing so for more than a decade?

I wish there was a cover story or even a light novel about Sabo's adventures as a Revolutionary Army.


And in terms of strength I believe he should be the strongest among "three brothers" since he was the first to depart and was trained in RA from his childhood. So if he gets Ace's DF, he might become a real beast.:)
I agree. We can assume that Sabo doesn't have any DF powers so to make it this far is incredible. The fact that he'll be facing Burgess in the Colosseum tournament says it all.

M3J
December 14, 2013, 06:14 PM
There is a chance Ace and Sabo met, but it had to be either kept a secret from Luffy or Ace just forgot, especially due to lack of time. From the conversation he and Koala had, Sabo definitely regrets not being at Marineford to help Ace and Luffy.

Asarii
December 15, 2013, 01:41 AM
I dunno. I think Ace would remember something as important as Sabo being alive- especially if the two also met during the Alabasta arc.

Yeah, it seems like Sabo thought that Luffy would get angry for keeping his status a secret for so long.

M3J
December 15, 2013, 01:45 AM
Could be, or this could be another Oda lame humor that tends to occur.

Can't blame Luffy though.

sameel
December 16, 2013, 12:04 AM
I beleive sabo and ace are still on the same level in terms of strenght.(u know, if he were alive)

hokageji
December 23, 2013, 03:19 PM
I personally think that amnesia would be a very silly and cheap explanation. It's gonna be hard to find an explanation that doesn't suck but I just trust in Oda.

Well, its just a thought, there has to be a side effect to the accident, the recovery and change in the ideals. He never met Ace or Luffy even after joining the RA for such a long time. One of the explanations would be amnesia. While I do agree it is a silly explanation, I don't think the explanation would necessarily suck, if Oda did use it.

Here is why I think Amnesia is a plausible explanation (not necessarily what will happen or if it is cool)

Sabo was attacked and damaged by a bazooka, he has to have gone through some physical or even mental damage
He never reappeared to save Ace or Luffy til now and neither knew about his existence
His name or identity is still not revealed... We know he is Sabo, but the manga still did not introduce him by name yet

Let us wait and see, again, I don't say this is the only possible explanation, but I do feel if Oda introduces him with this, the story can still proceed in a cool fashion

KuroKarasu
December 24, 2013, 04:31 AM
Well, its just a thought, there has to be a side effect to the accident, the recovery and change in the ideals. He never met Ace or Luffy even after joining the RA for such a long time. One of the explanations would be amnesia. While I do agree it is a silly explanation, I don't think the explanation would necessarily suck, if Oda did use it.

Here is why I think Amnesia is a plausible explanation (not necessarily what will happen or if it is cool)

Sabo was attacked and damaged by a bazooka, he has to have gone through some physical or even mental damage
He never reappeared to save Ace or Luffy til now and neither knew about his existence
His name or identity is still not revealed... We know he is Sabo, but the manga still did not introduce him by name yet

Let us wait and see, again, I don't say this is the only possible explanation, but I do feel if Oda introduces him with this, the story can still proceed in a cool fashion

You are right maybe I was too early calling it "silly explanation". But I don't think his ideals changed at all. His dream was to become a pirate but not to become the pirate king (like Luffy and Ace at first) but to gain freedom. He wanted to write a book and he wanted to change how the world works in terms of royals and so on. He was actually more fitting to be a revolutionary in the first place he just didn't know that the revolutionaries existed. If he knew then I don't think he would've wanted to be a pirate anymore.

The thing with amnesia is that many people are already saying that Sabo wasn't even hinted until Marineford arc (Ace's tattoo isn't enough as a clear hint to a third brother). So he was introduced and seemingly killed off pretty soon afterwards. If thw whole explanation why he didn't contact Ace and Luffy is that he had an amnesia then it would be like Oda saying: "You're right I had no plans for Sabo until Marineford"...It's just the easiest way to get a plausible explanation and therefore not a good one for me.