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View Full Version : Team エスパーダ (Espada) vs 仮面の軍勢 (Vizards)



yellowman1
October 28, 2008, 09:59 AM
Vizard's (Full power)
Espada's (All and released(the ones that we seen)) {the 3 captains included}
[hr]
Lol i'll give it to the vizards they have some unseen true power!

Ket_Vonz001
October 28, 2008, 10:10 AM
Vaizards. firstly, due to technicalities issues, Vaizards are the good guys and the Espadas the bad guys, so by default they will win

secondly, technicalities aside, even Aizen himself have already said that theres a limit for a Shinigami or Hollow, to break that limit, is to combine the two together. altho it applies somehow to Espadas as well, Vaizards were once Shinigamis and Shinigamis were trained to destroy Hollows.
and the Vizards at the very least have Hirako Shinji and Ichigo. i have not seen the others' battles so i cant say much on this. XD
how they will win... the Winter War will commerce and Vizards were also out to war.

kikrox1
October 28, 2008, 10:28 AM
The way shinji fought grimmjow clearly shows that the vizard have more power than espada. even though grimmjow is only number 6 shinji didnt even have to go to shikai to fight him off

~Joshua~
October 28, 2008, 10:56 AM
If Shinji (Vaizard) fought Grimmjow (Espada) with mask without even using his Shikai with ease I don't see Espadas winning.

yellowman1
October 30, 2008, 10:40 AM
If Shinji (Vaizard) fought Grimmjow (Espada) with mask without even using his Shikai with ease I don't see Espadas winning.

with the help of aziien who destroyed 2 captains (hit., and the fox guy) and 1 fingered ichigo and destroyed a Lt.

~Joshua~
October 30, 2008, 01:00 PM
I don't know why the three former captain's were included.

Onomatopoeia
October 30, 2008, 03:49 PM
This is an extremely unfair fight, I'd say the VZ captains can take on 1-3+Tousen+Gin at once but we've still got at least 5 Espada and Aizen vs some VZ VCs.

GJ+Ulq+Nnoitra probablly beat remaining VZs.

Edit: Ichigo won't change much. He'll fight Aizen(and lose)

Eddy01741
October 30, 2008, 07:08 PM
If it's like 10 on 10 (as in including the diceased espadas), it might be more fair. (i'm assuming there are 10 vizards, since I forgot). THat said, I think the vizards will still win, most of these guys are captains, but they also can "go past shinigami limits", so they are above captain level. And as far as we have seen, normal captains can beat the adjuchas/gillian class espadas (i'm assuming 1-4 are vasto lordes, since it's been strongly hinted at that Ulqioora is a vasto lorde), so these vizards should be able to take on the vastol lordes too. Plus, just think of it this way, I think of Ichigo as about average captain class level, and the vizards are captain, now imagine that they have perfected their hollow-like abilities unlike Ichigo, as well as knowing more kido and stuff like that.

yellowman1
October 31, 2008, 07:40 PM
idk i voted for vizards but azien is with them and azien is well pasted captain also!

Starky-08
November 04, 2008, 05:38 PM
Well IMO Vizards, 4 of them where Captains, I'm assuming by now the VC's at the time are now Captain level or Above due to the Mask's.
Its stated that a Lieutenant can match an Adjuchas, and Vasto's are stronger than Captains, and 10 would destroy Soul Society, but only about 4 of the Espada are Vasto's and we don't know that for certain, but we can assume.
So if 4 Vizads where Captains, and 4 Espada's where Vasto's, the rest of the Vizards where Lieutenants, assuming Adjuchas are much stronger when Arrancar.
I'd say Vizards, it just adds up that Vizards are stronger. With Aizen, Gin and Tousen I think only shinji would have a chance against Aizen, but perhaps still lose.

yellowman1
November 04, 2008, 06:48 PM
he so your saying the espada's have a chance?
hmmm i think they do to cause azien was detroying captains (hit.,that fox one) and he got renji and ichigo lmao!

Flight-47
November 04, 2008, 07:07 PM
So, how am I suppose to vote, "equal"?

It appears to me that the Mask boost is only in stamina, strength and speed, and doesn't increase the performance of a Bankai or Shikai. The Vaizard (some) seem to now rely on their masks more than their Shinigami powers, where as others, like Kensei and Hachigen still rely on Kidou and Shikai's like Shinigami. That's why I assume that the mask only increases physical abilities and not the abilities of the sword...
another hint to it. Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu don't get along. So why would they lend each other their power?


Arrancar are Hollow with Shinigami powers.
Vaizard are Shinigami with Hollow powers.

It would make sense that they're about equal, of course there will be exceptions. Such as perhaps, I'm sure Ulquiorra can take on Hiyori, but then I'm sure Hiyori can take on Aaroniero.


It all depends on the skill of the warrior themselves, but when it comes down to the basics, I'd say they're even seeing how they're simply one race with the power of the other.

yellowman1
November 05, 2008, 08:37 PM
yes they would be but azien gin and tousen are also involved in this fight and they side with the espada's

Eddy01741
November 06, 2008, 07:04 AM
The way I see it, theoretically, arrancar and vizards are equal if the initial being (be it a shinigami or a hollow) were of the same power. So if you take a weakling shinigami and turn him into a vizard, he should be equally powerful as a equally weak hollow turned into an arrancar.

ryanzokuken
November 06, 2008, 09:49 AM
if Aizen, Gin, and Tousen are involved, then it isn't "Espada vs Vaizards" and the thread title should be changed.

Aizen, Gin, and Tousen, are not espada, so they shouldn't just automatically be lumped in there.

Forever_Melody
November 06, 2008, 07:58 PM
I don't know how Arrancars and Vizards can be equal, they are different beings. Their strength may be comparable, but they'll never be equal for a Shinigami has a Zanpakuto, a weapon an Arrancar cannot achieve and the Arrancar has Resurecion, a skill which can revive a hollow's lost latent powers, latent powers which the Vizards have not been shown to wield, even with their masks on.

That being said, I guess it'll depend on the extent with which the Vizards can control their hollow powers. Maybe they CAN indeed awaken their latent hollow powers(ex: maybe Kensei can grow his arms and use those destructive punches as he did when he was hollowfied), but so far, all we know is that their mask increases their overall abilities(speed, strength, reiatsu etc.) and allows them to use generic hollow abilities(ex: Cero).

It would also depend on the individual powers of their Zanpakutos. The Hollow mask really advantages you if your Zanpakuto can benefit from the increase it yields.

osking
May 19, 2010, 06:43 PM
Since 8 vs 10 isnt really fair, I'm going to exclude Aaroniero and Szayel to make it 8 on 8 since those 2 are just.....useless...., but anyways who do you think would win in this all out battle royal? The 8 Vizards or the 8 Espada?

Edit - Crap, didnt finish the title and because I pressed the enter button by mistake, and didnt have time to edit the category. Could a mod edit the title and add Vizards at the end?

Random101
May 19, 2010, 06:50 PM
Espada. Barragon's death was a complete and total fluke. Assuming they have full knowledge of what happened before, Barragon knows enough to destroy Hachi first, and if not Hachi doesn't really have Soifon's support either, so it may be unlikely he'd even have enough information to assume what he did before to achieve said fluke. Having four vice captains doesn't really help the case either. Particularly since the lowest espada is almost as broken as Barragon frankly.

El Samurai Guapo
May 19, 2010, 07:03 PM
Espada. Barragon's death was a complete and total fluke. Assuming they have full knowledge of what happened before, Barragon knows enough to destroy Hachi first, and if not Hachi doesn't really have Soifon's support either, so it may be unlikely he'd even have enough information to assume what he did before to achieve said fluke. Having four vice captains doesn't really help the case either. Particularly since the lowest espada is almost as broken as Barragon frankly.

If they all have the knowledge of what happened to them before, then all the more reason why Hachi would defeat Barragan again. What's Barragan going to do to destory Hachi, send his repsira at him? Perfect, Hachi will just do what he did last time. Hachi could also seal some of the other espada in barriers so that they can be divided and conquered.

Shinji's shikai can probably affect all of the espada at once too. Lisa was able to hold her own against Harribel, the third espada so she should be able to take care anyone weaker than Ulquiorra, like Nnoitora. Hiyori can probably handle Grimmjow on her own, and if not Mashiro can help her out.

I would pit Kensei 1 vs. 1 against Starrk since his shikai can blow up all the wolves before they can reach him. Rose can take care of Ulquiorra, and Love can take care of Harribel. Shinji wtfpwns the septima espada quickly and then takes care of whoever else is remaining.

Random101
May 19, 2010, 07:09 PM
No, he'll just screw Respiera, take out his ax, and behead him. Kido to block? Decay them. Hachi really can't do diddly to him provided he doesn't have something to port in him. All out offense to Hachi first as the only viable threat screws them over.

Starrks wolves regen from all damage, so yeah, good luck with that. Harribel was clearly not going full out against Lisa (Kinda a lack of, I don't know, water for that) and proceeded to hold her own against a triple shikai assualt, so good luck to that too. The largest threats however are Barragon and Zomari, with their only defense being Hachi, who if Barragon's aware will be the first to fall.

El Samurai Guapo
May 19, 2010, 07:24 PM
[QUOTE]No, he'll just screw Respiera, take out his ax, and behead him. Kido to block? Decay them. Hachi really can't do diddly to him provided he doesn't have something to port in him. All out offense to Hachi first as the only viable threat screws them over.

It's not hard to get something to port into Barragan, the respira, once it touches someone's body move pretty slowly, he can stick one of his limbs out and get hit by respira, and then send it like he did last time. As for Barragan simply chopping off Hachi's head? Who says he's that skilled? Hachi has a zanpakutou of his own and hollowfication to defend himself, you know.


Starrks wolves regen from all damage, so yeah, good luck with that.

Rose was able to destroy one by blowing it up so I don't see why Kensei couldn't do the same.


Harribel was clearly not going full out against Lisa (Kinda a lack of, I don't know, water for that) and proceeded to hold her own against a triple shikai assualt, so good luck to that too.

I don't see why Harribel would have held back against Lisa. And the three shikai assault only lasted for 3 seconds until Aizen showed up and pawned her. Prior to that Lisa was fighting Harribel while sealed.


The largest threats however are Barragon and Zomari, with their only defense being Hachi, who if Barragon's aware will be the first to fall.

I think the largest threat (no pun intended) is Yammi actually, I had forgotten about him.

Random101
May 19, 2010, 07:30 PM
It's not hard to get something to port into Barragan, the respira, once it touches someone's body move pretty slowly, he can stick one of his limbs out and get hit by respira, and then send it like he did last time. As for Barragan simply chopping off Hachi's head? Who says he's that skilled? Hachi has a zanpakutou of his own and hollowfication to defend himself, you know.
Hence why I said screw respiera. Similarly Barragon's second espada. He had Soifon on the defensive in his base state (Granted due to slowdown). Hachi's a kido user, and has shown to be otherwise incapable thus far. Possible maybe, but nowhere near likely without assuming far more than viable. Hachi bites it easy.


Rose was able to destroy one by blowing it up so I don't see why Kensei couldn't do the same.
It reformed. They're like flames, they kept regenerating from all damage, even one that previously had been nothing. I saw none of them definitively destroyed. Even after the explosion they suddenly swarmed from beneath them and overwhelmed them.


I don't see why Harribel would have held back against Lisa. And the three shikai assault only lasted for 3 seconds until Aizen showed up and pawned her. Prior to that Lisa was fighting Harribel while sealed.
Nor do I, but she's clearly not using any water attacks, and despite Hitsugaya flinging ice at her she's not using Herviendo. Ergo she's clearly not going all out. Not logical from a battle standpoint sure, but if she's not using any attacks she's clearly not on full offensive.

DEATHBOTT
May 19, 2010, 09:31 PM
all of the captain visards would have to use bankai to win this one imo. i doubt lisa or hiori could take on grimjow or noritra. harribel didnt seem to be going hard against them. and the 7th espada i forget his name would give them trouble apart from hachi.
yammi, starrk, harribel and ulqierra would all need a captain level fighter to take them out so if shinji, love, rose and kensies bankai arnt up to snuff they would get mobbed.
i take it hachi cant just send respira in to all of the espadas stomarchs? the only one out of those 4 i hink will have a truly useful bankai is shinji. i would give this one to the espada.

Eddy01741
May 19, 2010, 09:48 PM
The only tough ones would be Stark (wolves), Barragan (Respira), and possibly Ulquiorra (in segunda etapa), and potentially Yammi (don't know his power yet). Everybody from Grimmjow down would be easily taken out. Noitora would maybe take a bankai just to get past his hierro, but he's just a physical brute so I don't think he can do any real damage. Harribel wasn't shown to be impressive so I would say a bankai to defeat her.

No idea on how barragan and stark would match up. Since Stark didn't go up against a bankai, and barragan was killed on a lucky fluke. Yammi also I don't know how he will do, he's... surviving vs. Ken and Byakuya, but hasn't landed a single hit yet.

El Samurai Guapo
May 19, 2010, 10:36 PM
Hence why I said screw respiera. Similarly Barragon's second espada. He had Soifon on the defensive in his base state (Granted due to slowdown). Hachi's a kido user, and has shown to be otherwise incapable thus far. Possible maybe, but nowhere near likely without assuming far more than viable. Hachi bites it easy

You said Barragan would use respira against Hachi's barrier though. Hachi can force respira out of Barragan one way or another by attacking him with kido. As for Hachi's physical capabilities, where has he shown to be incapable or lacking in that department? He's has not fought at all with his zanpakutou, for all you know he could be a better swordsman than Barragan or anyone else.



It reformed.

It reformed where?


They're like flames, they kept regenerating from all damage, even one that previously had been nothing. I saw none of them definitively destroyed. Even after the explosion they suddenly swarmed from beneath them and overwhelmed them.

Yeah they were like flame in that they could reform after being broken apart by physical attacks, but I'm pretty sure that Rose's sonata destroyed one. Either way, Kensei doesn't need to destory them permanently, he only needs to use his shikai to set them off before he can they can get to him, and then cut Starrk in half with tachikaze's wind/laser thing.


Nor do I, but she's clearly not using any water attacks, and despite Hitsugaya flinging ice at her she's not using Herviendo. Ergo she's clearly not going all out. Not logical from a battle standpoint sure, but if she's not using any attacks she's clearly not on full offensive.

Well she could have used water attacks off-screen. Most of the skirmish between Harribel and Lisa-chan happened off screen, and we still haven't seen what her or Hiyori's shikai does either.

Though only espada I see that's warrants the vaizard captains using their bankai is Yammi; certainly not any of them at Harribel's level or below.

By the way, regarding the title of this thread, shouldn't it be エスパダ  vs。 ヴァイザード? I have no idea what that kanji says but vaizard (vaizaado) should be written in katakana as well.

Random101
May 19, 2010, 10:45 PM
You said Barragan would use respira against Hachi's barrier though. Hachi can force respira out of Barragan one way or another by attacking him with kido. As for Hachi's physical capabilities, where has he shown to be incapable or lacking in that department? He's has not fought at all with his zanpakutou, for all you know he could be a better swordsman than Barragan or anyone else.
Notice how they all weren't killed when Barragon rotted the first barrier? Oddly enough he can apparently control the scope for the ones around him, as opposed to the ones he fires out. Hence, Barragon destroys.


It reformed where?
Notice that massive swarm that came up from under them (After they'd been nailed by the ones from below)? Yeah.


Yeah they were like flame in that they could reform after being broken apart by physical attacks, but I'm pretty sure that Rose's sonata destroyed one. Either way, Kensei doesn't need to destory them permanently, he only needs to use his shikai to set them off before he can they can get to him, and then cut Starrk in half with tachikaze's wind/laser thing.
None was definitively destroyed by that, and noticeably immediately after they were rushed by them from directly beneath. The explosion certianly looked like it nailed all of them, but none is remotely noted as destroyed, and frankly the swarm right after in both instances heavily implies no.

Similarly by virtue of numbers and hierro, it's not remotely going to be that easy. Throw in Starrk's sheer reaction speed and frankly I don't even see him drawing Starrk to the point of the wolves, which would throw the shikai ability right out the water from the start.


Well she could have used water attacks off-screen. Most of the skirmish between Harribel and Lisa-chan happened off screen, and we still haven't seen what her or Hiyori's shikai does either.
She used none remotely when it would have been in her advantage to, Ie: When Hitsugaya uses shikai, and similarly from what was shown each clash was more or less shown to be bashing swords together. Were she using her attacks, it would only be natural to assume that, I don't know, Harribel's at a range or something. Unlikely to say the least by both factoids.

Raizen
May 20, 2010, 11:33 AM
The espadas would own the vizards IMO.
Starks alone was strong enough to take on 2 captain vizards.
Kensei in bankai got owned by WW, so i am sure that yammi, starks, barraga, and perhpas ulqui or halibel could do the same.
Zomari and his seals would be enough to own the VC vizards by himself.
Noitora would screw with kensei.
Grimjow can take on any of the vizards as well.
Hell, grimjow can speedblitz and take out hacchi, thus allowing barragan to respira EVERYONE!

If we included the smart 8th espada, this battle will be even more 1 sided since he can analyze them

El Samurai Guapo
May 20, 2010, 06:06 PM
Notice how they all weren't killed when Barragon rotted the first barrier? Oddly enough he can apparently control the scope for the ones around him, as opposed to the ones he fires out. Hence, Barragon destroys.

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. In any case, I don't see why Hachi wouldn't be able to simply capture respira in a barrier and teleport inside Barragan, or even another espada.



Notice that massive swarm that came up from under them (After they'd been nailed by the ones from below)? Yeah.

Yeah, but there was 50 wolves, the ones that came up from underneath might have been different ones from the ones hit by kinshara.


Similarly by virtue of numbers and hierro, it's not remotely going to be that easy. Throw in Starrk's sheer reaction speed and frankly I don't even see him drawing Starrk to the point of the wolves, which would throw the shikai ability right out the water from the start.

Well it was Love on his own that forced Starrk to use the wolves (Rose didn't jump in until the wolves started attackig him), so I don't see a reason why Kensei couldn't force Starrk to that point. I think Kensei is even better suited to fight Starrk than Love was. Oh, and Starrk was never shown to be difficult to cut or have strong hierro; I'll buy the reaction time argument but not that.


She used none remotely when it would have been in her advantage to, Ie: When Hitsugaya uses shikai, and similarly from what was shown each clash was more or less shown to be bashing swords together. Were she using her attacks, it would only be natural to assume that, I don't know, Harribel's at a range or something. Unlikely to say the least by both factoids.

In any case, Harribel fought Lisa for a bit and was unable to injure her, which is why I say Lisa could fight with her more or less to a draw, and certainly deal with an espada weaker than she was.

Raizen
May 20, 2010, 06:12 PM
Hacchi can't just capture the respira in thin air. He had to be hit with the fire to transfer it.

Starks took a direct hit from shikai and mask love and went unscathe. Starks would run laps around any od the vizards imo. And love didn't force starks to do anything. He just got serious b/c of what lilinette said

Grimjow had a short skirmish with ulqui, are we to think he can actually fight on par with ulqui? HELL no. Lisa would get killed by halibel. Are u also fogetting that halibel msot likely exhausted most of her energy? She had to protect herself from dying somehow

Hystzen
May 20, 2010, 06:17 PM
espada take this..

barragan got his hax respira
ulq got his lance could just throw them while vizards busy with other espadas to stop him
starrk well it starrk think we know what he would do wait until he the last one standing then fight.
harribel went up against the perfect plot armour hitsu so cant judge her too much.
yammi let rose n love kill him the oaf
grimmjow can play with kensei n mashiro
norita can fight hiyori n cut her up more than gin
pink ballon zommari gets owned by shinji used skanade

Random101
May 20, 2010, 06:22 PM
Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. In any case, I don't see why Hachi wouldn't be able to simply capture respira in a barrier and teleport inside Barragan, or even another espada.
Is that even possible? Granted the nature of respiera is in question, but from what I understood Barragon was immune to the breath but not the rot effect. As in you have to put something that's physically rotting inside him for it to work. From what's shown Respierra appears to dissipate otherwise. Hence why unless he gets something like that, he's relatively boned.


Yeah, but there was 50 wolves, the ones that came up from underneath might have been different ones from the ones hit by kinshara.
They are all gone immediately after the move, sky's clear and everything. Then all of a sudden they start getting swarmed. Heavy implications right there that they reformed frankly. Granted they might have been different that were, for some reason, completely of screen from said shot, but this is why I specifically said none of them were definitively destroyed.


Well it was Love on his own that forced Starrk to use the wolves (Rose didn't jump in until the wolves started attackig him), so I don't see a reason why Kensei couldn't force Starrk to that point. I think Kensei is even better suited to fight Starrk than Love was. Oh, and Starrk was never shown to be difficult to cut or have strong hierro; I'll buy the reaction time argument but not that.
Love's shikai is completely immune to Cero's by design (Don't know why he didn't try this earlier with Ichigo, but then again I don't expect Kubo to plan ahead for this kind of thing). From what's shown thus, Kensei's is not.

Similarly as pointed out above, Starrk took absolutely massive blows from Love to Zero affect besides a few lazy ows. Granted Love's Shikai is more a blunt force weapon, but it does have those spikes on it and it was flaming for said blow. Zero visible damage from such a thing suggests a hell of a lot, as in a similar feat it's been shown that blunt force worked on Tousen's Hollowfied state for nasty repercussions (Though as that's a bankai different level and all that jazz).


In any case, Harribel fought Lisa for a bit and was unable to injure her, which is why I say Lisa could fight with her more or less to a draw, and certainly deal with an espada weaker than she was.
Because, for some odd reason, she wasn't remotely trying. You'd have a bit more of a basis were it shown that she were actually going on the offensive.

El Samurai Guapo
May 20, 2010, 08:25 PM
Is that even possible? Granted the nature of respiera is in question, but from what I understood Barragon was immune to the breath but not the rot effect. As in you have to put something that's physically rotting inside him for it to work. From what's shown Respierra appears to dissipate otherwise. Hence why unless he gets something like that, he's relatively boned.

The kidou/barrier itself rots, does it not? And it's not like it would be hard to get like a brick or something, put it in a barrier, and then teleport it.



They are all gone immediately after the move, sky's clear and everything. Then all of a sudden they start getting swarmed. Heavy implications right there that they reformed frankly. Granted they might have been different that were, for some reason, completely of screen from said shot, but this is why I specifically said none of them were definitively destroyed.


Love's shikai is completely immune to Cero's by design (Don't know why he didn't try this earlier with Ichigo, but then again I don't expect Kubo to plan ahead for this kind of thing). From what's shown thus, Kensei's is not.

It wasn't just the fact that Love could bat away cero's with tengumaru, but also Starrk himself said that ordinary ceros would not hurt strong guys like Love and Rose. I assume Kensei is around their level.


Similarly as pointed out above, Starrk took absolutely massive blows from Love to Zero affect besides a few lazy ows. Granted Love's Shikai is more a blunt force weapon, but it does have those spikes on it and it was flaming for said blow. Zero visible damage from such a thing suggests a hell of a lot, as in a similar feat it's been shown that blunt force worked on Tousen's Hollowfied state for nasty repercussions (Though as that's a bankai different level and all that jazz).

Well, if Starrk was not recieving any sort of damage whatsoever from Love's attacks, then I don't see why he felt the need to use his ace-in-the-hole. In any case, we're talking about Kensei here, who fights differently and has abilities that are quite different from Love's. Tachikaze seems to be very destructive, and the explosions from the knife, the wind laser, and that kamehameha he used against Ichigo seem like they would be pretty damaging attacks.



Because, for some odd reason, she wasn't remotely trying. You'd have a bit more of a basis were it shown that she were actually going on the offensive.

Who says she wasn't trying? Simply because Harribel didn't use any water moves, or we didn't see her use any water on-screen, it's really fair to say she wasn't trying.

Random101
May 20, 2010, 09:56 PM
The kidou/barrier itself rots, does it not? And it's not like it would be hard to get like a brick or something, put it in a barrier, and then teleport it.
I highly doubt porting a barrier would work. Otherwise Hachi had no reason to lose a hand, just port that decaying barrier into him before the breath reached him.


It wasn't just the fact that Love could bat away cero's with tengumaru, but also Starrk himself said that ordinary ceros would not hurt strong guys like Love and Rose. I assume Kensei is around their level.
Lethal injuries is what he said, least according to the Juni translation, same with the Bleach Addicted Translation, and the Sleepy fans too (Bintopia sort of goes with that general theme, though admittedly the Maximum7 scanslation does say that, but with 3-4 to one of the ones I can easily look up I'm going with that implication). Note Shunsui got nailed too, and he was hardly all that injured. The problem is when the cero's start stacking. Like, say, with that submachine gun tech of his. The wolves are far more potent, to the point that just one was enough to blast off the mask, and if the rest stacked it gets nasty.


Well, if Starrk was not recieving any sort of damage whatsoever from Love's attacks, then I don't see why he felt the need to use his ace-in-the-hole. In any case, we're talking about Kensei here, who fights differently and has abilities that are quite different from Love's. Tachikaze seems to be very destructive, and the explosions from the knife, the wind laser, and that kamehameha he used against Ichigo seem like they would be pretty damaging attacks.
Duh, because he wanted to end it. Regardless, he's clearly not sustaining any serious injuries. Love's megaton hammer looked far more devastating than the kamehameha and with no injury from that I'm going to have to say that such logic doesn't really fly, though granted since the wind laser works on a different damage principle that might fall under a maybe, though Frankly I don't find it even remotely likely. Particularly given the speed he's working with, and whatever was up with his scanner thing (Though admittedly those panels didn't go anywhere so I can hardly call it out for what it looked like).


Who says she wasn't trying? Simply because Harribel didn't use any water moves, or we didn't see her use any water on-screen, it's really fair to say she wasn't trying.
Because she's wasting time bashing blades together obviously instead of going for massive ranged attacks, which is obvious since she's not at range, and does not take such a gigantic opening as Hitsugaya's shikai to convert it to water. In short if she's not using her abilities when it would be her advantage to, it's pretty freaking obvious she isn't trying as opposed to the previous case of when she's practically spamming them one after the other.

hajialibaig
May 20, 2010, 11:11 PM
Baraggan was trolled..simple as that. He can take on all vaizards by himself given a logical fight in which no one is slipped the "idiot ball"

conn-man
May 24, 2010, 04:22 PM
i would like to see love fight nnoitra, big weapons, both stronger than average, love would need bankai for sure to win.

zommari would give any vizard a problem until they figured out that danku worked, hachi would give him a run for his money, but he would struggle with that speed.

mashiro and released grimmjow going at it hand to hand, he might be a little to vicious for her though.

another fun one would be kensei fighting ulquiorra, the speed might be an issue for kensei but he doesnt seem slow and hes so destructive at close range with shikai and mask, ulquiorra would have to watch out, he is captain level after all.

El Samurai Guapo
May 24, 2010, 07:36 PM
I highly doubt porting a barrier would work. Otherwise Hachi had no reason to lose a hand, just port that decaying barrier into him before the breath reached him.


Cutting off his hand with a barrier and teleporting it into Barragan was an act of desperation of Hachi's part. Once respira had reached him and his hand began to rot, he knew he had to separate it from his body, and in that process I think it occurred to him to send his decaying hand into Barragan's body.


Duh, because he wanted to end it. Regardless, he's clearly not sustaining any serious injuries. Love's megaton hammer looked far more devastating than the kamehameha and with no injury from that I'm going to have to say that such logic doesn't really fly, though granted since the wind laser works on a different damage principle that might fall under a maybe, though Frankly I don't find it even remotely likely. Particularly given the speed he's working with, and whatever was up with his scanner thing (Though admittedly those panels didn't go anywhere so I can hardly call it out for what it looked like).

Does it really matter which attacks look more impressive? I'm sure kokujo tengen myouou's sword looks a lot more impressive and damaging than senbonzakura kageyoshi, but that doesn't mean it is. Comparing Love to Kensei would than comparing any two Gotei 13 captains; it doesn't work because their abilities are not the same. Really the only thing Love and Kensei have in common is that they have a hollow mask. Moreover, I for one thought Kensei's kamehameha was impressive. That attack easily took of Ichigo's arm (where Kensei was aiming).

Shinji had told the other vaizards not to "off" Ichigo while they were in the barrier so Kensei obviously deliberately didn't aim for Ichigo's torso when he fired that thing. With the mask on, that attack would be many times stronger as well. I also liked how Kensei easily destroyed that hollow mouth thing that came out of Ichigo's shoulder and tried to bite him.

As a side note, I think it speaks volumes of the vaizards strength to be able to "entertain" Ichigo's hollow for 10 minutes without killing him. Most of them didn't even release their zanpakutou's while doing this.



Because she's wasting time bashing blades together obviously instead of going for massive ranged attacks, which is obvious since she's not at range, and does not take such a gigantic opening as Hitsugaya's shikai to convert it to water. In short if she's not using her abilities when it would be her advantage to, it's pretty freaking obvious she isn't trying as opposed to the previous case of when she's practically spamming them one after the other.

Whatever. You can try and downplay the vaizards all you want by making excuses for Harribel, but the fact that a measly VC can go toe-to-toe with a released third espada is a testament to the enormous boost a shinigami gains from hybridization.

Random101
May 24, 2010, 07:41 PM
It took off that mass of whatever the hell that was supposed to be. What the Kamehamaha actually did was REVEAL his arm.

Further, entertaining the hollow would be a tad more impressive if it could think and actually act intelligently. It was whacking wildly and didn't even pull cero until way late in the game. I'd also go into us not seeing at least half of them, and of the three we did see one did pull shikai (And another had to pull the mask), but that already goes without saying.

El Samurai Guapo
May 24, 2010, 07:54 PM
It took off that mass of whatever the hell that was supposed to be. What the Kamehamaha actually did was REVEAL his arm.

No, it took his arm off. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/220/03/ there was nothing covering his arm prior to kensei blowing it off with the kamehameha. It later shot out some crazy hollow mouth thing, which Kensei blew up with the knife (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/220/05/), after that is when you see the new hollow arm revealed.


Further, entertaining the hollow would be a tad more impressive if it could think and actually act intelligently. It was whacking wildly and didn't even pull cero until way late in the game. I'd also go into us not seeing at least half of them, and of the three we did see one did pull shikai (And another had to pull the mask), but that already goes without saying.

How intelligent does the thing need to be? They were fighting it inside a room-sized barrier, and it would aggro anything that came inside. That's enough really. The hollow form that Ichigo was in when he fought against Ulquiorra wasn't very smart either, but that didn't stop it from being deadly.

Random101
May 24, 2010, 08:03 PM
Ah, had the sequence of events wrong. Valid, though frankly given said hollow mouth thing swarms out in the first place I'd find the stability of his body in question from the start.


How intelligent does the thing need to be? They were fighting it inside a room-sized barrier, and it would aggro anything that came inside. That's enough really. The hollow form that Ichigo was in when he fought against Ulquiorra wasn't very smart either, but that didn't stop it from being deadly.
It's also spamming cero's one after the other. In addition too, unlike that previous one, being in a complete state rather than steadily becoming more and more hollow as it goes on. To say nothing of it being completely different in general which, given Ichigo's vizard state prior to that point was laughably weak doesn't help your point even slightly.

And trust me, I know it's stupid, that's why I argue anyone with a brain in a high teir of power could plausibly take it if they aren't retarded about it (And have a good idea that the horn is the weakness admittedly, though I'd assume someone would naturally eventually try for such a thing). Mostly because it just stands there most of the time before spamming ceros.

thornofcarrion
May 25, 2010, 10:52 AM
At least the captains will be handful for espada. Seeing how Shunsui vs. Stark went, IMO Shinji with his ability stands a good chance of beating top tier espada. I'll side with Vizards on this one.

osking
May 25, 2010, 11:25 AM
Starrk
Love managed to bash Starrk around, but he didnt take any damage. And as far as we know, Shinji is better than Love. So who'd win between Shinji & Starrk? I'll give it to Starrk simply because he's got a better arsenal and could take down any of the vizards. He'd strike Hachi down before he gets the chance to use Kidou on him.

Baraggan
The only threat to Baraggan is Hachi. I'm gonna have to give this one to Hachi. Though Baraggans rot barrier seems to bhe able to stop anything its also weak against Kidou [I think], and since Hachi has a vast arsenal of Kidou I'm gonna say he'd win.

Harribel
She's managed to take on captain with Bankai, 2 vizards with shikai and even survive a stab from Aizen. Hiyori and Lisa would loose and wouldve lost had she not been weakened from her battle with Hitsugaya. Love would loose since his fire based Shikai would be negated by her Water based techniques. Everyone else would surely be able to win, including Hachi is he can use Kidou before his chance is up.

Ulquiorra
Pretty much the same outcome with Harribel, unless SE comes into play. Then I dont see any of the vizards beating him, unless Hachi uses Kidou and hit him with a high level.

Nnoitra
Granted he has the toughest hierro like he claims, he should be able to tank anything the vizards throw at him. His only problem is range and speed. I'd say him and Lisa would be evenly matched, meanwhile Hiyori just gets cut down again. Everyone else above would win once they find a way to get past his hierro.

Grimmjow
Not sure where he'd be compared to the vizards. If his base form could withstand an assault form a masked shinji who I presume to be holding back, then I'm sure a released Grimmjow would have forced shinji to fight with much more effort. He'd probabaly beat Lisa and below, though definitely not anyone above.

Zommari
I only see his Gemelos Sonido to be the problem here. Resurrecion ability would be useless against Hachi and Shinji, for the fact that he could use Sakanade to reverse his senses. If he doesnt use GS or resurrecion ability anyone of the vizards would toast him, except hiyori.

I'm gonna have to give this one to the Espada because they have far more versatility than just a mask with shikai.