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igotthegoods
May 26, 2010, 11:42 PM
If you haven't seen the goodies yet, you can check them out in the Spoiler Pics and Summaries thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1925113#post1925113) This is where you can discuss all about them. But remember no spamming.

Please remember: NO SPOILERS OUTSIDE THE SPOILER THREADS. This rule will be strictly enforced. Please respect those that don't want to be spoiled. Thanks :)

Chapter is Out!!!!
http://mangahelpers.com/m/one-piece/chapters/587/

dragonballz66
June 02, 2010, 12:00 AM
Kuma and Iva is with Dragon! Looks like Ace do have King's Haki too. I wonder what Dragon and his RA are planning to do.

bittman
June 02, 2010, 12:11 AM
Interesting that Ace and Dadan went missing.

Didn't expect BlueJam to be alive still tbh, he looked pretty stuck between the gates and fire.

Annnd Sabo didn't appear at all in the chapter. Means I've got to put up with another week of "Sabo is that revolutionary guy who saved Robin and will be the next SH because Luffy needs a brother because Sabo was going to die then he got awesome and met Dragon and because he talked to Dragon he must be alive and thus awesome and thus will become the next SH".

It's going to be a long week.

EDIT: Ignore the Sabo rant. Obviously based off an incomplete or false trans.

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 12:12 AM
I guess there was a lot likze me who supposed it would be aa iva and inazuma cover. What a nice surprise :-)

Ero-Sanji
June 02, 2010, 12:14 AM
I wonder if Sabo became a revolutionary as well? Thinking about his relations with the noble blooded it wouldn't surprise me. Ace having King's Haki isn't actually confirmed but it's likely.

ish3
June 02, 2010, 12:18 AM
Well Sabo didn't appear to the end I think. I can't tell. But the flashback moment seems like he either left or he plans on leaving can't tell what Dragon did with Sabo, but the flashback seems to be nearing it's end.

bruticus171
June 02, 2010, 12:19 AM
Dude, at the end it shows Sabo having his own boat and sailing off to sea. This does not look like a fake at all.

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 12:23 AM
No there are knew pics and Sabo chance to finish this aalive are diminishing drastically

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 12:30 AM
sabo is on his own pirate ship with an S and crossed bones flag. awesome! ace has haki, dragon has kuma and iva with him. ah!!!! this flashback is effing awesome!

El-Thor
June 02, 2010, 12:30 AM
OMG YES ! SABO SETTING OUT TO SEA !!!!!! :D :D :D So happppy !!! Gah...

Hope this is real, it sure looks real. But now comes the question, "If Sabo is out at sea shouldn't he have seen Ace and Luffys wanted posters?" Oda-sensei will surely have a good explanation for that....

EDIT : I don't really like the idea of Ace having haki as well. Maybe if it's regular ol' haki I can somewhat accept, but if he had the "king's disposition" also then wtf? Why didn't he use it when fighting Akainu. Surely WB must have taught him how to use it... hell, why didn't he use it against BB ?

elitefox
June 02, 2010, 12:37 AM
Sabo going out to the see doesn't mean he has the same luck as them lol

The two are D's while sabo is sabo.

El-Thor
June 02, 2010, 12:39 AM
Sabo going out to the see doesn't mean he has the same luck as them lol

The two are D's while sabo is sabo.

As far as we know ;) Maybe Sabos full name will be revealed to be something like Sabo D. Arbito ! (probably not, but w/e :darn )

But now that we see him sail off, I really doubt he is dead. Would be pretty weird story telling to show us a person doing well and then not showing him ever again.

Also, I know we don't have the translation yet and don't know what they are talking about in the chapter, but it doesn't seem like Sabo is in a hurry to find Ace or anything. He just seems happy to be free HMMMMM

Sabo a bad guy ?!

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 12:41 AM
now i understand ace's tatoo! its sabo's jolly-roger!

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 12:50 AM
Sabo is going out while an armada of marines is coming
I think his pace of piracy will be rather quick

bittman
June 02, 2010, 12:52 AM
now i understand ace's tatoo! its sabo's jolly-roger!

Meaning this flashback aint over yet. Great catch by the way.

Much happier it's Sabo the pirate and not Sabo the revolutionary at the moment.

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 12:56 AM
Not over but I think we see the end
lol, all this discussion about dragon last chapter

Skrymir
June 02, 2010, 12:59 AM
Well, Luffy's scar under his right eye is finally explained as well.

elitefox
June 02, 2010, 01:01 AM
Meaning this flashback aint over yet. Great catch by the way.

Much happier it's Sabo the pirate and not Sabo the revolutionary at the moment.

Maybe Ace's Tattoo is suppose to be ASL ace sabo luffy but due to something, he didn't continue it :D:p

darklide
June 02, 2010, 01:03 AM
Well, Luffy's scar under his right eye is finally explained as well.

Wasnt it already explained in the first chapter? When luffy met shanks?

killer_jo
June 02, 2010, 01:07 AM
Well, Luffy's scar under his right eye is finally explained as well.

jezz man do u read OP? Luffy had scar in his left eye :mad
this already explained at chapter 1:blink
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/05/

bittman
June 02, 2010, 01:23 AM
EDIT : I don't really like the idea of Ace having haki as well. Maybe if it's regular ol' haki I can somewhat accept, but if he had the "king's disposition" also then wtf? Why didn't he use it when fighting Akainu. Surely WB must have taught him how to use it... hell, why didn't he use it against BB ?

Because Haki isn't the equivalent of Super Saiyan.


Having haki does not make you invincible
Having Haki does not mean you can control it well
Controlling it does not mean it's a universal omni tool / swiss army knife
Haki is not the Force from star wars which does mystical things
You think haki means much to Akainu or Blackbeard? (both hinted at also having it)
Maybe Ace was using the Haki the entire time in every fight you saw with him in it! (Ok probably not, but I could argue it)

urlaub
June 02, 2010, 01:28 AM
Did Ace use haki?
And I like that Kuma has been confirmed as a revolutionary!

Jadedmariner
June 02, 2010, 01:32 AM
Because Haki isn't the equivalent of Super Saiyan.


Having haki does not make you invincible
Having Haki does not mean you can control it well
Controlling it does not mean it's a universal omni tool / swiss army knife
Haki is not the Force from star wars which does mystical things
You think haki means much to Akainu or Blackbeard? (both hinted at also having it)
Maybe Ace was using the Haki the entire time in every fight you saw with him in it! (Ok probably not, but I could argue it)

Luffy's Haki meant enough to Akainu that it made him feel it was necessary to try to kill him at all costs. I think the point is that just possessing Haki isn't enough, but training and developing it can make it into a dangerous weapon especially for those who seem naturally gifted. BTW, with Blackbeard's combination of abilities it is hard to imagine him defeated with anything other than Haki.

TheMoa
June 02, 2010, 01:33 AM
I just think it's kind of natural for Ace to have King's Haki... after all, the guy was Roger's son

I think that the King's haki must be really hard to control... I mean, Ace was young when he died...
Rayleigh had decades to develop his(if he really do have the King's haki). And this could be a hint that Luffy won't be developing his haki too soon,

JetPistol
June 02, 2010, 01:35 AM
For some reason I can't help but connect the Grey Terminal fire to Ace getting his devil fruit powers even though there is no logical connection between the two lol

El-Thor
June 02, 2010, 01:40 AM
Because Haki isn't the equivalent of Super Saiyan.


Having haki does not make you invincible
Having Haki does not mean you can control it well
Controlling it does not mean it's a universal omni tool / swiss army knife
Haki is not the Force from star wars which does mystical things
You think haki means much to Akainu or Blackbeard? (both hinted at also having it)
Maybe Ace was using the Haki the entire time in every fight you saw with him in it! (Ok probably not, but I could argue it)

Agreed. I guess the point I was trying to make is it seems like everyone is starting to either show signs of or already have haki (Ok not everyone but a lot of the major characters) Looks like this whole Haki deal isn't as rare as Oda leads us to believe. The Kings Disposition on the other hand....

And Ya, it makes sense... even if Ace could control his haki, it doesn't mean his back would magically block the attack. Good point.

TwEeD
June 02, 2010, 01:41 AM
I think that the King's haki must be really hard to control... I mean, Ace was young when he died...
Rayleigh had decades to develop his(if he really do have the King's haki). And this could be a hint that Luffy won't be developing his haki too soon,

Even Hancock who is Empress of an Island where Haki is commonplace said she can't control her Haöshoku Haki that well (and she's in her late twenties maybe thirties)

bittman
June 02, 2010, 01:53 AM
Even Hancock who is Empress of an Island where Haki is commonplace said she can't control her Haöshoku Haki that well (and she's in her late twenties maybe thirties)

Just to note: That is based off a mistranslation which onemanga continue to use. The actual translation has Hancock refer to Luffy who lacks control of Hakoshou, not herself.

Can't seem to find the actual translation at the moment, was sure I'd linked to it before though...

kanmati
June 02, 2010, 01:53 AM
ace got king haki! what a waste of potential. oda kill Ace.

Marche
June 02, 2010, 01:55 AM
Even Hancock who is Empress of an Island where Haki is commonplace said she can't control her Haöshoku Haki that well (and she's in her late twenties maybe thirties)That translation was wrong, in the truth She speak of Rufy (as say also Akainu in the war, for some reason).
If you see the episode of the anime you will understand.

Kuma is with Dragon, so he was a rivolutionary.
For this my theory about Kuma is revived (I believe than Kuma is became a "robot" for Dragon, that was an order).

And I think than Saboo will be captured and made a slave of the Tenryuubito.

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 01:59 AM
just reread the spoilers. maybe sabo boarded dragon's ship? that wouldnt explain the jolly roger but dragon invited everyone who wants onto a ship right? argh im confused. cant wait for the chapter to be released

elitefox
June 02, 2010, 02:09 AM
just reread the spoilers. maybe sabo boarded dragon's ship? that wouldnt explain the jolly roger but dragon invited everyone who wants onto a ship right? argh im confused. cant wait for the chapter to be released

Dragon invited but unsure if Sabo joined, maybe not since he is like on a raft and has his own flag... lol putting a pirate flag on the ship of dragon.

goldb
June 02, 2010, 03:05 AM
Looks like Sabo sailed on his own. Kuma is on Dragon's ship!!! Also, it wasn't a surprise to see Ace use haki. I love the cover with Dragon, i hope this means we're gonna see more of him soon.

hypno
June 02, 2010, 03:17 AM
I don't see Sabo adventure ending well:
a kid sailing alone on a pirate ship where Tenryuubito are due to show up any minutes has not many chances. It is a call for disaster.

Also, Ace tattoo would point to the fact that Sabo is gone - at least for Ace.

But I really like the idea of Sabo joining / "being saved by" Dragon at the last minute without Ace nor Luffy knowing that :D

OQO
June 02, 2010, 03:20 AM
WoW! great chapter! And Ace using haki...I just knew it!

zagorka
June 02, 2010, 03:24 AM
Sounds interesting the Ace had the King's haki as well. I guess his ambitions weren't great enough for it to be seen again.

I can totally see Sabo getting blown out of the water if the World Nobles are closing in.

Marche
June 02, 2010, 03:37 AM
Ehi, I haven't see where Ace use haki.
Where is it??? In which pics????

hy4k
June 02, 2010, 03:49 AM
possiblilities

1. sabo dies
2. sabop becomes a pirate
3. sabo joins the RA

also kuma is/was a revolutionary. that means he's a double agent OR the world government has something on him. i'm betting the latter

St Michael
June 02, 2010, 03:52 AM
When Luffy is about to be killed , Ace hakized the Bluejam's pirates.

Looks like he mastered his haki even lesser than Luffy. I agree with Zagorka, it's probably linked with his lack of personnal ambition.

PH3000
June 02, 2010, 03:56 AM
mh... seems like it's gonna be a awesome chapter^^
-Ace using king's disposition
-Dadan fighting
-Ivankov is really there
-Kuma too
-Sabo setting sail (totally unexpected?!)

lots of things that need a proper discussion :D

hy4k
June 02, 2010, 04:02 AM
i think sabo's fate will be left delibirately ambiguous

just him setting off on a boat

joshua019
June 02, 2010, 04:04 AM
I think that was luffy's haki
[hr]

mh... seems like it's gonna be a awesome chapter^^
-Ace using king's disposition
-Dadan fighting
-Ivankov is really there
-Kuma too
-Sabo setting sail (totally unexpected?!)

lots of things that need a proper discussion :D

I thought last week that sabo wud join Dragon

terrorei
June 02, 2010, 04:20 AM
Have you seen the cover? Damn Oda is massing around with us, by drawing Dragon with a Dragon on his chest, and the symbolic play with water, like he was creating a rainfall :/.

DLord.Van.Buuren
June 02, 2010, 04:39 AM
i dont know if this was mentioned but the crossed out s on ace's shoulder resembles sabo's pirated flag .

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 04:49 AM
it has been mantioned. by me XD
now that i have seen the picture again i agree with you guys and gals, sabo is on his own, dragon's ship and sabo's ship look nothing a like. i really hope sabo survives.

also it seems that it might be the last flashback chapter next week. ace and dadan are gone now so luffy might think they died and next week he will learn that they are alive

happy GIN smily
June 02, 2010, 04:55 AM
the good part of this whole flashback is that we see some part of Dragon´s and Iva´s past.

most important info in this chapter:
finally it seams to be confirmed that Kuma followed Dragon.

goldb
June 02, 2010, 04:58 AM
Yeah I think next week we'll get the flashback scene where Ace shouts at Luffy for thinking he's dead (http://static3.mangastream.com/manga/5/53/17.png).

Sabo's in trouble, he's setting off right when the Celestial Dragons are arriving. I think they might shoot down his ship or something.

Lutzu
June 02, 2010, 05:06 AM
it has been mantioned. by me XD
now that i have seen the picture again i agree with you guys and gals, sabo is on his own, dragon's ship and sabo's ship look nothing a like. i really hope sabo survives.

also it seems that it might be the last flashback chapter next week. ace and dadan are gone now so luffy might think they died and next week he will learn that they are alive

next week is going to be the arrival of Tenryuubito and we see what will happen to Sabo because is saling where the ceremony is going to be and where the Tenryuubito is going to arrive and is bound to happen something to him and what Dragon is up to,i think this flashback is going to last another 2 chapter or 3.

and we have just 11 pages, 7 pages we don't now what will happen in them but i think Dadan is going to defeat Bluejam.

DEATHBOTT
June 02, 2010, 05:11 AM
why did they say sabo's ships a fishman ship? lol just saw it a fishermans boat.

frontaLobotomy
June 02, 2010, 05:25 AM
So Ace seemed to have the Haoshoku as well? That isn't very suprising, but a nice touch all the same.
Seeing Kuma was a turn out for the books, presumably he didn't have his cyborg modifications yet. Though it's hard to tell as he's massive either way.
A pretty decent chapter, in all. It's a shame we didn't get a glimpse of Dragon's power, though his ability to draw people like Ivankov and Kuma in suggests he's going to be super strong. And once again, Sabo defies the odds to live for at least another chapter.

hy4k
June 02, 2010, 05:44 AM
actually it does look as if sabo's dead

he's sailing towards the tenryubito. that's pretty much suicide

deffkryz
June 02, 2010, 06:03 AM
So... We got another hint that the institution of the Ooka Shichibukai ain't older than ten years. At least the ones we are being shown nowadays: Kuma was a revolutionary ten years ago. Hancock received her offer to become a shichibukai about eleven years ago... (mentioned by Gloriosa back in Ch.522) Though, Ace got his invitation within the last three years... (mentioned by flashback back in Ch.552) :/

Sabo's ship looks like a small caravella... like a small copy of the G.M. without it's remarkable figurehead... The same sail set... Coincidence? :blink

BTW... Is there a new rule that you're forbidden to post spoiler images in the spoiler threads?better read the thread intro post completely next time... :darn

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 07:13 AM
you can no longer post more then 3 spoiler pics a post. from what i understood.

also stelly is a newkama? i mean last chapter she dressed like a boy and now a girl... iva got to her.

goldb
June 02, 2010, 07:26 AM
LMAO!!! what happened to Stelly?? did Ivankov get to him?

deffkryz
June 02, 2010, 07:33 AM
Well... she doesn't look like Stelly, does she?

But the more I look over these spoilers the more I'm convinced that this is going to be the best chapter of this flashback by now. And it's getting pretty clear that Oda wants to show these events for the purpose to work up Ace's death and the reason for it. He has always been someone that fight people back... You couldn't tell that from his fight against Polchemy solely because Sabo helped him - but Bluejam seems some other league even with Dadan on Ace's side, this setup resembles IMO much more that one right before Akainu punched through Ace's chest...

elitefox
June 02, 2010, 07:34 AM
LMAO!!! what happened to Stelly?? did Ivankov get to him?

lol yeah I thought he was an okama for a second there or is he?

wtf, everywhere ivankov goes there is someone converted :p

gotdott
June 02, 2010, 08:21 AM
So Dadan and Ace are missing, it might head in the direction that Dadan sacrifices herself and tells Ace never to do something so stupid as to put himself in death's way and that's why he's apologizing to Dadan when he gets hit by Akainu?

N A O
June 02, 2010, 08:24 AM
There is no point for Ace having Haki from the beginning... he was useless against BB and Akainu.
First time I saw the spoiler I thought it was Dadan who have it... and I'm still hoping that.

lawlord
June 02, 2010, 08:30 AM
whoaaaaaaaa so Ace did have Kings haki. He truely is a D

OMFG

IMAGINE ACE IF THOSE ASSHOLES DIDN'T KILL HIM. He would truely be a monster in the future. No wonder they did everything to kill those two D's

MB.D.GN
June 02, 2010, 08:50 AM
ace needed to die otherwise luffy couldn't becom Pirate King

Lutzu
June 02, 2010, 08:50 AM
There is no point for Ace having Haki from the beginning... he was useless against BB and Akainu.
First time I saw the spoiler I thought it was Dadan who have it... and I'm still hoping that.

let's put this way,i think Ace didn't want to use haki because he thought that he has the power from his father and he wanted to become strong with his own powers,this is my take why Ace didn't use haki in the actual time-line.

terrorei
June 02, 2010, 09:11 AM
let's put this way,i think Ace didn't want to use haki because he thought that he has the power from his father and he wanted to become strong with his own powers,this is my take why Ace didn't use haki in the actual time-line.

Bullshit.
It's more likely he was to beaten up to use any haki. Furthermore it is possible that he didn't even know what haki is (like Luffy didn't know what it was and he has it till Hancock said it.

MB.D.GN
June 02, 2010, 09:23 AM
Bullshit.
It's more likely he was to beaten up to use any haki. Furthermore it is possible that he didn't even know what haki is (like Luffy didn't know what it was and he has it till Hancock said it.

yes he does now because what did he mean by you too

THM Nindo
June 02, 2010, 09:48 AM
So Sabo left on his own!?
Those spoilers are totally confusing me, and the images don't help...

Hopefully, when the chapter is out, everything will be clear :tem

terrorei
June 02, 2010, 10:14 AM
yes he does now because what did he mean by you too

Yeah now he knows, the question is how long does he knows about it.
Means if he learned it from WB it means much time has passed, without using haki and maybe he just started using haki, without really mastering it yet.

Besides, in my opinion its also not normal that luffy starts to use the kings haki one time after an other, without even mastering it.
So I guess it has something to do with his armlet he got since TB, after that he seems that he can use haki with ease.

OnePiece_Michi
June 02, 2010, 10:37 AM
Yeah now he knows, the question is how long does he knows about it.
Means if he learned it from WB it means much time has passed, without using haki and maybe he just started using haki, without really mastering it yet.

Besides, in my opinion its also not normal that luffy starts to use the kings haki one time after an other, without even mastering it.
So I guess it has something to do with his armlet he got since TB, after that he seems that he can use haki with ease.

ace also didnt really needed his haki yet... if you got a fire logia, and you really dont need haki too much, you wont learn it as fast as someone who really needs it (like luffy).

i mean... luffy is good in physical strength, but whenever the opponent is a logia, he either looks for a weakness, or he simply has no chance at all.

but that wasnt the case with ace, because he could easily fight smoker for example.


The Secret of the D.The D. is a left over of an old Ruler family, which rules 700 years ago. After they were overthrown by the Callestrial Dragons, there is hope that the old rules will regain their power freeing all the people from the cruelty of the new ruler.
This is called the Will of D.

i think this is a theory, right?

well her are my thoughts about the Will of D.

Will of D. = Will of Dreamers = Will to reach your dream at any cost

all People with D. in their names:
Monkey D. Luffy, Monkey D. Dragon, Monkey D. Garp, Marshall D. Teach, Gol D. Roger, Portgas D. Rouge, Portgas D. Ace, Jaguar D. Saul

they all had/have one thing in common: the will to accomplish their dream... thats why they all were or are powerful... because they fight for that dream they have... they are dreamers.. they are awesome.

panasit
June 02, 2010, 10:44 AM
I think Oda is toying with us with a lot of people guessing whether or not Sabo will live or die. Right now, all signs point to the celestial dragon clan killing Sabo for getting in the way of their ship or something. But let's hope for a better outcome.

terrorei
June 02, 2010, 10:51 AM
Fully agree with you Michi. I intended to write the same thing in my last post, but thought it would make it more complicated ^^.
The last picture of Sabo is somehow sad, it seems to me like a picture of some one who is can't believe he is free, but at the same time near running into his doom.

SenninSage
June 02, 2010, 10:54 AM
So Sabo left on his own!?
Those spoilers are totally confusing me, and the images don't help...

Hopefully, when the chapter is out, everything will be clear :tem

Wait... Sabo left on his OWN!? Could he possibily be one of the pirate lords, like WhiteBeard or Shanks?

It also wouldn't remotely surprise me if it were the case that Ace refused to rely on the strength of whatever Haki he may have had because he felt it's something he received from his father, and he instead wanted to rely on his own power.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/570/02/

Check out this page here. This is after Luffy used his beastly Haki in front of everyone. Ace said, "You too", possibily as if he also possessed such a power. I'm really reaching here, but you never know.

OnePiece_Michi
June 02, 2010, 11:04 AM
Wait... Sabo left on his OWN!? Could he possibily be one of the pirate lords, like WhiteBeard or Shanks?

well theres only "Kaidou" and "Big Mom" left....
i rather think he got a high ranked revolutionary..! damn, i really hope we'll see him soon in the present time of the manga... i started to like him somehow.

BlindMunkey
June 02, 2010, 11:21 AM
Yeah now he knows, the question is how long does he knows about it.
Means if he learned it from WB it means much time has passed, without using haki and maybe he just started using haki, without really mastering it yet.

Besides, in my opinion its also not normal that luffy starts to use the kings haki one time after an other, without even mastering it.
So I guess it has something to do with his armlet he got since TB, after that he seems that he can use haki with ease.

armlet has nothing to do with luffy using haki. he uses his haki subconsciously. like blackbeard said in the ID. oh his haki has improved. so its matter of time before luffy has his haki improved enuff to be able to use it for 1-3secs for one of his attacks.

zerocooldx
June 02, 2010, 11:46 AM
So Ace displayed the Hakushou Haki when he was just 10. Thats pretty insane and it only speaks to just how strong Ace really was. And i guess now we know for sure that Sabo is not only alive but that he is also probably with the Revolutionaries. Mainly because i don't think that Dragon would allow a child to be killed while he was around. And now i think we also may know where and how Dragon could have started his Revolutionary group.

beastboy
June 02, 2010, 11:49 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/570/02/

In this page, Garp says, so he was really born with it...

It might be of the translation, but I think that it looks like Luffy was supposed to have Haoshoku, and Garp tought he was the only one on the family who didn't have that type of Haki.

So maybe Haoshoku is something passed by family, and that leeds to something, who's hancock's father!
Maybe he was a D.!

(thats just me saying things out of my head, if it doesn't seems believeble, just skip the post :3)

About the spoilers...
Great cliff hanger, waiting for the rest of the pages :3

Ero-Sanji
June 02, 2010, 11:51 AM
Imo It's more likely that Sabo became a pirate himself rather than a revolutionary. Which to me even seems more interesting, since it explains the whole freedom thing better. It truly is sad that Ace is dead but I'm excited to be seeing Sabo in the future.

Duzy
June 02, 2010, 12:17 PM
If this is indeed haoshoku then it blows away any scraps of definition I've been trying to construct. It would seem you don't have to consider yourself above all else to posess it. And damn... I'm all for shounen underage uberpower manifestations but imagine this brat (devilspawn but brat nonetheless) changing the outcomes of (ordinary) battles, like, shutting everyone up in the Alabasta kind of event, and just with a tantrum :o.

The other thing that display has proven (again) is the complete immunity of those who are above certain level of resistance. I mean, if those guys haven't dropped like flies, the one who remained standing wouldn't even notice Ace emitting aything. He was like, wtf has just happened ? We've seen that before but accompanied by those who couldn't decide if they wanted to politely loose consciousness or not.

undertoe
June 02, 2010, 12:19 PM
So Ace displayed the Hakushou Haki when he was just 10. Thats pretty insane and it only speaks to just how strong Ace really was.

What am I missing...?

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 12:23 PM
Yeah I think next week we'll get the flashback scene where Ace shouts at Luffy for thinking he's dead (http://static3.mangastream.com/manga/5/53/17.png).

Sabo's in trouble, he's setting off right when the Celestial Dragons are arriving. I think they might shoot down his ship or something.

it could be in the missing pages of this chapter. It's doubtful they fight bluejam during 3 days and the end of the chapter is during the marine inspection

zerocooldx
June 02, 2010, 12:43 PM
What am I missing...?

Ace screamed at people and they fainted ah la Luffy at Marineford. Pretty good signs of the Hakushou Haki.

OnePiece_Michi
June 02, 2010, 12:44 PM
What am I missing...?

nothing as far as i know.... i think he just made something up.. lol.


Ace screamed at people and they fainted ah la Luffy at Marineford. Pretty good signs of the Hakushou Haki.

yeah, but how can anyone know ace gets haki with 10 years... or is it displayed in the spoiler? that would explain it, because i just flashed over it.

zerocooldx
June 02, 2010, 12:46 PM
nothing as far as i know.... i think he just made something up.. lol.


Ace: DON'T YOU LAY A HAND ON LUFFY!!!!!!!!
*pirates fall down*
BlueJam: What the hell did you just do, you freakish kid!!!

Thats hardly me making something up. :oh

beastboy
June 02, 2010, 12:47 PM
@Michi
Read the spoiler before posting some bullshit about people making things up in the spoiler thread!

BTW now I'm really looking forward for the whole Haki thing to be explained, I'm kinda curious..

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 12:50 PM
Yes there is the traditional foaming guys, typical of the Haki power

undertoe
June 02, 2010, 12:58 PM
Ah, thanks CRASH OVERRIDE.

Does that necessarily mean it's hakushou? It could just be a regular burst of haki.

beastboy
June 02, 2010, 01:19 PM
Well... but this + Ace saying You Too, is more than enough to say that Ace Has had, the Haoshoku Haki.

RichardMNixon
June 02, 2010, 01:22 PM
Well... but this + Ace saying You Too, is more than enough to say that Ace Has had, the Haoshoku Haki.

But not enough to mean that what he did is the exclusive domain of Haoshoku.

Lord Rayleigh
June 02, 2010, 01:34 PM
Am I the only one that has noticed that Dragon raised his hand towards the sky and that on the next picture, there's a giant round hole in the fire ? I'm not sure it's because of water.

EDIT : see there, http://www.imagebam.com/image/d5aae682897824/

hy4k
June 02, 2010, 01:40 PM
Am I the only one that has noticed that Dragon raised his hand towards the sky and that on the next picture, there's a giant round hole in the fire ? I'm not sure it's because of water.

EDIT : see there, http://www.imagebam.com/image/d5aae682897824/

well spotted

some moses style shit going down there

OnePiece_Michi
June 02, 2010, 01:40 PM
@Michi
Read the spoiler before posting some bullshit about people making things up in the spoiler thread!


whoops... calm down... i simply over read that part of the spoiler...

@zerocooldx, of course you're right
sorry (:

El-Thor
June 02, 2010, 01:46 PM
Am I the only one that has noticed that Dragon raised his hand towards the sky and that on the next picture, there's a giant round hole in the fire ? I'm not sure it's because of water.

EDIT : see there, http://www.imagebam.com/image/d5aae682897824/

Nicely spotted. By the way the lines are drawn and the shape of the circle it looks a lot like powerful wind blasting through. Could be wrong though

beastboy
June 02, 2010, 01:46 PM
8D, wari man, I was not intending to be harsh, but next time re read the spoilers before claiming the others are making things up :3

monkeyD.
June 02, 2010, 01:53 PM
Also dragons boats sails are up and the boat is still moving, looks like a gust of wind is pushing it.

Gats
June 02, 2010, 01:53 PM
Am I the only one that has noticed that Dragon raised his hand towards the sky and that on the next picture, there's a giant round hole in the fire ? I'm not sure it's because of water.

EDIT : see there, http://www.imagebam.com/image/d5aae682897824/

His fist is intended for the people down here, in real life we see this several time from "revolutionalists" or other kind of groups. The hole in the fire is probably his work but I don't think it has anything to do with his hand.

Poneglyph420
June 02, 2010, 01:57 PM
Well after reading the chapter.. there are some skewed translations out there..
But all in all pretty good.

As far as the hole in the fire.. Dragon is with Kuma right?? Supposing that Kuma has his DF, I guess he would be the most likely to have had quenched the fire..... But it could be a lot of things I guess.. Dragon or Even Iva's Death Wink...

There are things left to the imagination in OP, and that's good... Isn't it?

RichardMNixon
June 02, 2010, 02:11 PM
I also interpreted it as a fist raised in defiance as he tries to recruit the people watching him, then they all sail away together with the gap in the fire being completely unrelated.

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 02:25 PM
now i understand it all!
dragon took ace and dadan with him and told them who he was. they decided to go back so he dropped them back a few days afterwards. he also told them to not say anything. if you recall from the war when sengoku revealed who was luffy's dad ace was the only one from the people who supposedly didnt know that didnt even raise an eyebrow. i think he knew from this point who was luffy's dad but dragon asked him not to tell luffy that info.

Mr. Crocodile
June 02, 2010, 02:28 PM
Dragon's boat has a Dragon's head lol..kinda similar to Shanks'.

mateltoy
June 02, 2010, 03:05 PM
Can it be any more obvius that Dadan is big momma?, she just haki bursted knocked out the whole BlueJam crew.

Hate to tell you but... i told ya guys ;)

THM Nindo
June 02, 2010, 03:13 PM
Can it be any more obvius that Dadan is big momma?, she just haki bursted knocked out the whole BlueJam crew.

Hate to tell you but... i told ya guys ;)

Big Mum cannot be Dadan...
Dadan is not even a pirate, she's a bandit...

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's unlikely and I think that Luffy is acquainted with enough legend like he is right now...

Having yet another one of the 4 Great Pirates being related to him... that would be too much...
It's already enough that he's Shanks's protégé and that he was the brother of Whitebeards's protégé.

mateltoy
June 02, 2010, 03:21 PM
Big Mum cannot be Dadan...
Dadan is not even a pirate, she's a bandit...

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's unlikely and I think that Luffy is acquainted with enough legend like he is right now...

Having yet another one of the 4 Great Pirates being related to him... that would be too much...
It's already enough that he's Shanks's protégé and that he was the brother of Whitebeards's protégé.

After the Haki Burst Bluejam looks to the left to see who did it, even though Ace is clearly in front of him. Considering the epicenter of the burst was Ace, and that it was a 360° burst, there is no way the energy could had been felt form Bluejam left, he turned his head for a reason. Dadan appears in the next page aswell.

A regular Mountain Bandit would never dream to have Haki, Dadan is obviusly a monster, shes just obviusly very passive and lazy, even trying to make Luffy and Ace work (unsuccesfully) for her, but obviusly caring about them, for example, when they left to "live on their own".

She wasnt a pirate back then, but who knows maybe something with the tenryuubito or Garp made her sail away, kind of like Sabo is doing right now.

For someone like Dadan to be known and thrusted by one of the strongest marines ever, comparable in strenght to the pirate king Gold Roger himself, Dadan had to be someone special.

I Know it sounds silly that Luffy is related to that many strong people, but its anime so, anything goes.

sage mode
June 02, 2010, 03:29 PM
Kuma is Really a Revolutionary, awesome

mateltoy
June 02, 2010, 03:36 PM
BTW i dont think Ace had or knew how to use haki, proof to that was both, the fight with Whitebeard, and Smoker.

undertoe
June 02, 2010, 03:43 PM
It looks like the clearing of flames was Kuma's work.
[hr]

BTW i dont think Ace had or knew how to use haki, proof to that was both, the fight with Whitebeard, and Smoker.

It's pretty clear that the haki was Ace's doing.

Youbba
June 02, 2010, 03:43 PM
WOOW, that was the best chapter in all this Flashback.
look at this :
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2305/dragonshipflag.jpg
We have both Dragon ship and dragon flag.
Well about the flag, it's not proven to be the one, but Dragon as a Revolutionnary will not have a pirates jolly roger, so the one in this cover might be the right one.

gold349
June 02, 2010, 03:45 PM
a good chapter, we get to see kuma with dragon...have a feeling that sabo bites the dust at the hands of the 'celestial dragons'?.

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 03:53 PM
Well it is not this chapter we will see Dragon power. Too bad it was 80% of last week discussions :-)
Ace haki was really surprising, But I'm not sure we will see much of his fight against Bluejam
and why are all these nobles so damn ugly. I wonder how the tenryubito of next chapter will look like

luffy_boy
June 02, 2010, 03:53 PM
Nice to see Kuma on the revolutionaries side, makes me wonder why or how they made him switch sides.

Lord Rayleigh
June 02, 2010, 03:55 PM
Dadan could be the last member of the Yonkou. Ace said Luffy to tell hi to her, which means he will likely find her in New World. There's also the fact that Dadan was Ace and Luffy's Mom and is pretty Big (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/11), and it fits the Big Mom name. And Dadan's curly long hair fits very well the shadow of one member of the Yonkou.

What bothers me in this idea is that Luffy would have got deep bonds with 2 members of the Yonkou before they became famous. There is also the fact that Garp clearly meant he was able to beat her easily. She may have become stronger later but still, Garp would have made used of a member of the Yonkou for many years.

zerocooldx
June 02, 2010, 03:55 PM
Hmm i don't see Sabo making it out of this alive now. Mainly because if he did survive and had gone on to become a pirate then i would find it very difficult to believe that he would not have come to save Ace at Marineford. Dragon was his only shot at being saved and becoming a Revolutionary which could have explained him not coming to save Ace due to the fact that the Revolutionaries most likely work by their own schedule and goals. Maybe both Luffy and Ace end up witnessing Sabo's death and make some type of a promise to each other.

Roarchu
June 02, 2010, 03:58 PM
NNNOOOOOO!!!

The Tenryuubito are gonna kill Sabo?!!!

also,

Dragon > Jesus

nalex
June 02, 2010, 04:01 PM
seeing how powerful ace was as a 10 year old kinda makes me disappointed in luffy. got a long ways to go

gladiator91
June 02, 2010, 04:04 PM
I think that sabo will die, as he seems to be sailing in the way of the celestial dragons ceremony? so they might kill him or something for being in the way

i think dragon has some sort of ability to sense important events or some sort of mystical power, he turned up at logue town in the nick of time, and now here? bit of a coincidence

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 04:04 PM
Yes everything now says that he is going to die. But it's so obvious that maybe Oda will surprise us like he did in the last chapters

ish3
June 02, 2010, 04:04 PM
Okay it looks like Ace didn't use haki and it was in fact Dadan. I'm more satisfied with that. In this situation it makes more sense.

luffy_boy
June 02, 2010, 04:07 PM
Well it would be weird if ace would have been able to use the haki then... as he could`nt or has`nt used it in his fight with smoker.

THM Nindo
June 02, 2010, 04:10 PM
Kuma is Really a Revolutionary, awesome

Yeah! That's nice!
It would be nice if he could go back to his old self.

I kinda like him...
Even if he was working for the badguys, and was a brainwashed half-robot, he managed to save the whole Strawhat crew and send them to places where they could grow and become even stronger!! :tem
[hr]

Okay it looks like Ace didn't use haki and it was in fact Dadan. I'm more satisfied with that. In this situation it makes more sense.

No... it was Ace.
At least, that's what I get from this chapter.

He's the one that is yelling, and it mimics the same thing that happen with Luffy when he yelled to let Luffy go, and that everyone at the execution noticed that he had the King's Haki power.

ish3
June 02, 2010, 04:19 PM
Yeah! That's nice!
It would be nice if he could go back to his old self.

I kinda like him...
Even if he was working for the badguys, and was a brainwashed half-robot, he managed to save the whole Strawhat crew and send them to places where they could grow and become even stronger!! :tem
<hr noshade size="1">


No... it was Ace.
At least, that's what I get from this chapter.

He's the one that is yelling, and it mimics the same thing that happen with Luffy when he yelled to let Luffy go, and that everyone at the execution noticed that he had the King's Haki power.
Oh I know that. But I refuse to believe it because well it doesn't explain of a lot of things. Like how we've never seen it until now. Why hasn't he even grasped it somewhat before death? Also what's the point of having haki such as that with such weak ambition?

OdaForPresident
June 02, 2010, 04:21 PM
Kuma!!! Shear awesomeness

k-dom
June 02, 2010, 04:25 PM
it's Ace who used haki. It's not because there are a bit of mysteries that you have to use denial of the obvious.

THM Nindo
June 02, 2010, 04:25 PM
Oh I know that. But I refuse to believe it because well it doesn't explain of a lot of things. Like how we've never seen it until now. Why hasn't he even grasped it somewhat before death? Also what's the point of having haki such as that with such weak ambition?

Maybe he just never learned to use it.
Just like Luffy... he only use it once really, and it was because he was in a crisis and yelled that he wanted to save Ace.

JetPistol
June 02, 2010, 04:26 PM
Hmm since Ace only told Luffy to say hi to Dadan if she's still alive, it pretty much means Sabo is probably dead or Ace is not aware of his whereabouts and so he can be anywhere at the moment...the translation for the line is pretty crappy..."sabo incident"...eh

Suriyan
June 02, 2010, 04:27 PM
maybe the price you pay for the intangibility of being a logia is being unable to use haki

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 04:39 PM
i dont think its the case since it was implied that the 3 admirals stopped WB attack with their haki.

but now after reading this chapter i really am afraid for sabo's life. i really wish hed survive but its really hard to tell what will happen. maybe dragon will return for him.
also how did dragon blew a trail in there? it wasnt kuma cuz the trail aint shaped like a paw, maybe it was iva with one of his winks?

beastboy
June 02, 2010, 04:40 PM
Wait, now Ace has little ambition, Ace has one of the strongest ambitions in the manga, but is dream wasn't to be famous, nor strong. It was to find a reason to live, and be happy and free... in the end, he died accomplishing all his real dreams, except one, to see his brother reaching his dream.
But in this chapter, he simply shouted for the same reason Ace shouted in Marine Ford, cause his brother was going to die, it was already stated Kings Haki is an ability you're born with, and we never saw some one not important with it, except for hancock I think.

About Dragon, I can't wait to see more about him.

mateltoy
June 02, 2010, 04:43 PM
Oda is not like that, if ace had been alone then the haki burst from him would make sense, but the fact that its the first time we've seen ace use Haki, even though hes faced some very strong oppoents, doesnt make sense at all.

Another thing you guys are forgetting, this is very important.
While seastone handcuffs can stop a devilfruit user from using its powers, it was proben by rayleigh that Haki bursts can crack them open. The whole time, while Ace was beign held at the execution platform, he didnt use kings haki, nor any tipe of haky, to try to help them in battle, unlike luffy.

Ace doesnt have Haki, live with it, its been proven from the beggining that Haki comes from strong willed people, and Ace reggreted living for most of his life, that beign most likely the reason of him not beign able to use it.

Luffy is 17 and already, some of his punches are haki infused, just like Blackbeard said when they fought.

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 04:50 PM
then how do you explain this fainting and foaming? ace has haki but he didnt know how to utilize it until he died or he didnt have king's disposition but another kind that just knocked out people. so far from what we all haki users knocked out other people, do you suggest they ALL have the same haki? the one in a million haki that now we have 5 possibly more haki users that have the same rare haki. i aint buying it. ace has haki, it doesnt necesserily have to be the king's haki but he does have it.

sp0nje
June 02, 2010, 04:51 PM
Did anyone noticed that Kuma was on dragon's ship?
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/16

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 04:55 PM
welcome to mangahelpers! its so fun to see new people that choose to post their first post in one piece's discussion.

yeah sp0nje most of us noticed this yesterday when the spoiler was published

jokey
June 02, 2010, 04:56 PM
how many years has it been since we last saw the straw hats together?... i cant remember...ahahaha

man i hope sabo is alive just for the sake of him reuniting with luffy and giving luffy his will to live... wouldnt it be awesome if luffy knew he still has a brother... man this chapter is epic... there's just too many epic possibilities...

mateltoy
June 02, 2010, 05:00 PM
then how do you explain this fainting and foaming? ace has haki but he didnt know how to utilize it until he died or he didnt have king's disposition but another kind that just knocked out people. so far from what we all haki users knocked out other people, do you suggest they ALL have the same haki? the one in a million haki that now we have 5 possibly more haki users that have the same rare haki. i aint buying it. ace has haki, it doesnt necesserily have to be the king's haki but he does have it.

It was Dadan, im pretty sure Dadan is Big Momma (the 4th yonkou), shes probably called that for been known to have rised the children of Dragon and Roger.

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 05:11 PM
interesting theory. but i doubt that she is big momma. she doesnt seem to fond of pirates. why would she become one herself? she said she was a mountain bendit that didnt want to get into trouble. also she seems quite a coward

tiberiuscg
June 02, 2010, 05:11 PM
Dadan could be the last member of the Yonkou. I thought that because of THIS frame



http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5500/yonkou.png (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/yonkou.png/)

beastboy
June 02, 2010, 05:13 PM
Well the big shout like "STAY AWAY FROM LUFFY" is pretty much the same has Luffy's screams when he used haoshoku, so Ace has the haoshoku haki, you have to live with that..
I mean, you're denying the obvious cause, cause, I don't know!

But its so obvious I can't understand it..

I'll try to explain:
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/10 ->The pirates fall, and started falling, Blue Jam kicks Ace, and points his gun.
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/11 -> Then Dadan appears, after some panels that would take about 45 seconds to happen.

So to options, Dadan used haki 200 meters away, but wasn't fast enough to reach Blue Jam before he could fire, obviously wrong.
Of corse Luffy could use is haki at that distance, but how would dadan know that they were ther at so many distance, in the middle of a fire!
And if she is that strong, wouldn't her haki make Blue Jam fall.

Or, Ace shouted has seen before EVERY-TIME some one who hasn't control over is haki did, and make every weak willed guy fall, and foam from they're mouth.

hy4k
June 02, 2010, 05:13 PM
bluejam was right. heroes die. only cowards and the strong survive. he predicted ace's death just as ace did with his refusal

also

-dragon has control of fire
-dadan actually cares for the kids and looks out for them


also DADAN IS NOT BIG MOM. Aside from the fact that she looks nothing like her, she is a mountain bandit and garp's bitch.

monkey D luffy
June 02, 2010, 05:15 PM
people just dont get that there are a few types of haki. they seem to set their mind that if someone has haki he is instant god, he can break out seastone chains and such. ace has a poor haki. he can knock very weak people out but he cant do everything reyleigh can do. thats it.

mr.danly
June 02, 2010, 05:17 PM
I really find it hard to believe that Dadan, or any other character we've been introduced to, is the fourth yonkou. As for Ace having the haoshouku haki, I think it's not really in question at this point. Remember when Luffy used haki to knock out the executioners of Ace? He said, "you, too, huh..." or something to that extent. I mean, it's disappointing that Ace wasn't able to do more with his Haki, considering how important it seems to be to the plot, but it's logical to assume that he did have the Haoushoku haki, especially when one considers the fact that Ace is Roger's son.

Duzy
June 02, 2010, 05:18 PM
Part of me thinks that Sabo has been built up too much to kill him off before he even appears in the present storyline.

On the other hand, that escapade alone... We already know he is strong, but we also know that he's afraid of adult pirates, and he's not gonna take care of himself like 17yr old Ace or Luffy .

Which brings me to my biggest concern. Maybe Ace and Luffy were prohibited to leave before coming of age because of the tragedy ? I imagine them as being the strongest on the island long before reaching that age and reckless enough to try becoming pirates on a whim anytime soon after this flashback.

xaniq
June 02, 2010, 05:25 PM
regarding ace's use of haki...the reason I think we've never seen him use it again is because he's more the type to save his friends or brother..people that value his being alive. since he never valued his own life, he had no reason to ever really use it.

mateltoy
June 02, 2010, 05:27 PM
You scrubs, the person you're trying to compare Big momma with on that photo is not her, its Kaidou, the 3rd yonkou.

Bugzee
June 02, 2010, 05:42 PM
It was painful waiting for this week's chapter to come but finally it's out and what a great chapter it's turned out to be! :)

I knew Ace had some kind of haki ability and it wasn't bad for a ten year old hey? XD
YES! Sabo lives on for another chapter. :shakefist

Dragon has one humongous-looking ship; I can't wait to see it being revealed completely in the future. Did anyone else see Kuma!!!!!? ZOMG! I knew it. :p

Ashura_Ichibugin
June 02, 2010, 05:56 PM
Dadan could be the last member of the Yonkou. Ace said Luffy to tell hi to her, which means he will likely find her in New World. There's also the fact that Dadan was Ace and Luffy's Mom and is pretty Big (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/11), and it fits the Big Mom name. And Dadan's curly long hair fits very well the shadow of one member of the Yonkou.

What bothers me in this idea is that Luffy would have got deep bonds with 2 members of the Yonkou before they became famous. There is also the fact that Garp clearly meant he was able to beat her easily. She may have become stronger later but still, Garp would have made used of a member of the Yonkou for many years.


Can it be any more obvius that Dadan is big momma?, she just haki bursted knocked out the whole BlueJam crew.

Hate to tell you but... i told ya guys ;)

Seems like that theory revives time and again, refusing to disappear. It is as nonsense as the "Dadan is Kong" thing that was around before Dadan was shown.

1) What does a yonkou do at the top of a mountain?
2) Why does a yonkou run from Bluejam?
3) Why do people have trouble accepting a not-super-strong Dadan?

Please, Dadan is just Dadan, the mountain bandit.

samitsmeht
June 02, 2010, 05:57 PM
just read the chapter
its awesome
was it just me or did u see KUMA behind dragon ??

beastboy
June 02, 2010, 05:59 PM
I wouldn't mind being as strong as a 10 years old brat, if that meant be as strong as Ace :3!

I'm really looking forward to the next chapter... Maybe the Tenryuubito instead of killing Sabo, will find him cute, and merry him!

Yukio
June 02, 2010, 06:04 PM
was it just me or did u see KUMA behind dragon ??

I noticed that too. Hmm..

At any rate, i wonder where Sabo is now. Great Chapter. Looking forward to the next one.

Bugzee
June 02, 2010, 06:20 PM
just read the chapter
its awesome
was it just me or did u see KUMA behind dragon ??

Indeed it was. :noworry



I'm really looking forward to the next chapter... Maybe the Tenryuubito instead of killing Sabo, will find him cute, and merry him!

haha, you think so?

I would prefer for Sabo to go on his own adventures now rather than clashing or having some kind of an exchange with the Tenryuubito tbh.

Considering how this chapter has played out, I wouldn't be suprised next chapter if we see Sabo ending up as a slave to the Tenryuubito and returning back to the Goa Kingdom with them. His father, as a noble, wouldn't be able to do anything would he?


I noticed that too. Hmm..

At any rate, i wonder where Sabo is now. Great Chapter. Looking forward to the next one.

Yep. I can't wait for the next chapter! :tem

El-Thor
June 02, 2010, 06:25 PM
Great chapter. It was interesting to see Kuma behind Dragon. So that's where Ivankov knows him from.

Sabo setting sail was awesome too, but it sounds like he is right in the path of the ship carrying the Tenryubito. I really doubt it, but would be cool if he runs into them.

Mr. Crocodile
June 02, 2010, 06:46 PM
For some reason I don't think Luffy or Ace will see Sabo again on the flashback..since we've reached its climax, the tenryuubito are arriving, I think it would end in 2 maybe 3 chapters. Maybe they'll see Sabo and give him a tearful goodbye at the very end.

esamarie
June 02, 2010, 06:50 PM
Hello. I'm a recent fan of One Piece and just like everyone else, I've been eagerly waiting for this new chapter. And reading through the discussions, I can't help butt in my own opinions. :P

I seriously doubt that Dadan has Haoshoku and is one of the current Yonkou. Those with haoshoku seemed to be destined for greatness and if she had it, she wouldn't be like scared of Garp. Remember in the previous chapter when she commented that she didn't like taking care of Garp's grandkids because they are too strong. She seemed weak for someone who has haoshoku.

I think 'Big Mom' of the 4 yonkous is Lola's mother (the lady captain from Thriller Bark). Remember when she gave a biblicard to Nami pointing to her mother? Her crew said that Lola's mother is a famous pirate from the New World. I doubt that Oda added that part just for nothing. Big Mom could be an important ally of the strawhats when they enter the New World.

I personally don't like the idea of Ace having haoshoku since it doesn't seem to fit what had transpired in his battle with Blackbeard. Yes, it's possible that he forgot about it, but the point is, why did Oda reveal that? There's no point in having to reveal Ace's haoshoku when he still ended up dead. This one is a puzzle for me. I could have easily accepted it that it was Luffy's. But anyway, maybe the next chapter will have an answer to it.

About Sabo, I think he will end up getting saved by Dragon. I don't know if anyone noticed from one of the previous chapters wherein Robin was saved by the revolutionaries. The other guy with Robin may be Sabo (he wears a hat and has light coloured, curly hair). It's just a guess though... XD

chitgoks
June 02, 2010, 06:51 PM
tsk. still no clue to dragon's powers. that road created between the fire was definitely done by kuma

and i agree. ace doesnt have haoshoku, else he'd have used it against akainu rather than use himself as the shield

Poneglyph420
June 02, 2010, 07:20 PM
There is some serious hating going on here.. I understand some people miss the obvious and often are lacking what may seem to be "basic One Piece" knowledge... but let's lighten up...
I'm not trying to flame here so I'll get off my soapbox...

A really great chapter all in all, Ruminations of Dragon's growing influence. What I really like best is that he is "blind" to class or status and values life and freedom.
A moral Revolutionary in training is admirable indeed IMO. Sure I'd love to know what kind of powers Dragon has but the content of his character far outweighs such details...again IMO.

Sabo wow, I was sure the little bugger was gonna die.. I'm happy I was wrong in a way.. He's stuck his middle finger (Proverbially) to all the nobility of that BS kingdom... I guess he's still in danger however...

And Ace has "Kings Haki" I wish I was more shocked, but he did say "you too" when Luffy unleashed his Haoushoku blast in Marineford... so yeah.
All in all another great chapter and addition to this flashback which is really filling in a lot of blanks...

I for one am happily impressed in Oda's ability to best all of our predictions one by one.....

Duc :D
June 02, 2010, 07:30 PM
Dadan, as well as Ace kick Blue Jams ass, because we know is alive in the future and also tells LUffy to say hi to Dadan if he ever met her again. Hope Sabo's story does not end with getting shot by the tenryubito and we will see him in the presentimeline.

Rotten The Wizard
June 02, 2010, 07:36 PM
Sabo dies.

Ace became a world known pirate, there's no way in hell Sabo didnt find him if he really was out there. And the fact that he didnt show up to rescue ace is more evidence of his death

Either way Ace spoke of him as if he was no more. All signs lead to the conclusion that he didnt make it

esamarie
June 02, 2010, 07:46 PM
Either way Ace spoke of him as if he was no more. All signs lead to the conclusion that he didnt make it

Maybe Sabo gets attacked while sailing making Ace and Luffy assume that he's dead (his jolly roger in Ace's tattoo is quite foretelling), but ended up getting saved. I think including him in the flashback of Ace and Luffy has some sort of significance in later chapters. I don't see the reason of him being added in the cast, then having him dead just like that.:p

bluemonster
June 02, 2010, 08:02 PM
Or maybe the Tenryubito took Sabo as a slave. I hope this isn't the case.

deffkryz
June 02, 2010, 08:08 PM
@Poneglyph420: Wow... You just took my words out of my mouth... I just deleted most of my text because it's obsolete. :blink


tsk. still no clue to dragon's powers. that road created between the fire was definitely done by kuma

How? Pawn the fire away? Ivankov's Death or Hell Wink is much more able to make such a path.


Hello. I'm a recent fan of One Piece and just like everyone else, I've been eagerly waiting for this new chapter. And reading through the discussions, I can't help butt in my own opinions. :P

Welcome to MH... :)


I personally don't like the idea of Ace having haoshoku since it doesn't seem to fit what had transpired in his battle with Blackbeard. Yes, it's possible that he forgot about it, but the point is, why did Oda reveal that? There's no point in having to reveal Ace's haoshoku when he still ended up dead. This one is a puzzle for me. I could have easily accepted it that it was Luffy's. But anyway, maybe the next chapter will have an answer to it.

Revealing Ace having the Haoushoku doesn't change anything about former battles. Simply because that the Haoushoku can only be used to make peoples faint. That wouldn't have worked on Teach and probably not even on his henchmen. It's different from the other haki powers that are either close to the Mantra or useful to strengthen attack and defense to even get a grip on intangible Logia users. Both of those other hakis just don't fit to Ace's personality who actually somehow likes to be stubborn and to become all beaten up - to feel that he actually lives due to the pain.


and i agree. ace doesnt have haoshoku, else he'd have used it against akainu rather than use himself as the shield

But that's not how the Haoushoku works, either. :eyeroll

The Haoushoku makes people stop doing what they are about to do and makes the weaker of them collapse. It doesn't have any effect on strengthening or weakening attacks - nor can it work as shield. on the strongest, it doesn't have an effect at all. So Akainu would have never stopped hitting Luffy by Ace's most probably still premature Haoushoku.

It's pretty clear - just look on each time Haoushoku is being released by Shanks, Rayleigh and Luffy. Everytime that "aura" is released nothing else happens. There aren't any intangible beaten, nor has a rock exploded due to an arrow.

esamarie
June 02, 2010, 08:38 PM
Welcome to MH... :)
QUOTE]

Thanks for the welcome! :D

[QUOTE=deffkryz;1936572]
Revealing Ace having the Haoushoku doesn't change anything about former battles. Simply because that the Haoushoku can only be used to make peoples faint. That wouldn't have worked on Teach and probably not even on his henchmen. It's different from the other haki powers that are either close to the Mantra or useful to strengthen attack and defense to even get a grip on intangible Logia users. Both of those other hakis just don't fit to Ace's personality who actually somehow likes to be stubborn and to become all beaten up - to feel that he actually lives due to the pain.

It's pretty clear - just look on each time Haoushoku is being released by Shanks, Rayleigh and Luffy. Everytime that "aura" is released nothing else happens. There aren't any intangible beaten, nor has a rock exploded due to an arrow.

I think Haoshoku is the supreme level of haki, approximately only 1 in every one million people has it. It's not just a mere ability to make people with weaker wills faint. As far as I've seen/read, haki is used to strengthen fighting abilities and can be used to negate or overpower devil fruit abilities. This has been shown in the Kuja warriors' haki, Rayleigh vs Kizaru, Teach's comments when Luffy managed to hit him. I think it also explains why Shanks and Garp (I think he too has Haoshoku) are so powerful despite having no devil fruit abilities. Even Boa Hancock's mero mero powers isn't that remarkable, but her powerful haki allows her to stand against strong opponents (Smoker, Pacifistas...) Well, this is my opinion only. :D

Dasbones
June 02, 2010, 08:42 PM
Sabo dies.

Ace became a world known pirate, there's no way in hell Sabo didnt find him if he really was out there. And the fact that he didnt show up to rescue ace is more evidence of his death

Either way Ace spoke of him as if he was no more. All signs lead to the conclusion that he didnt make it

Or

He could have joined the revolutionary army...

kaizoku king
June 02, 2010, 08:42 PM
just read the chapters isnt it weird that in all naruto, blieach and one piece that the parent came in the time of desperation.

cool chapter loved the flash backs sabo got a head start on ace and luffy if his still a pirate he must be hell of a powerhouse

Zeltrax
June 02, 2010, 08:44 PM
Really liking sabo as a character now,
don't wanna see him dying, at least not yet.

Ace never runs huh? I wonder how many times he clashed with marines that way, if he never runs.
and wtf are with the world nobles, they are the ugliest fugs,
ever.

elitefox
June 02, 2010, 08:47 PM
lol at age 10 a kid already has king's haki :D

anyways the WG really knows who the threat is except for buggy :D


anyways, what is the next chapter gonna be like?
will it return to the present now?

Super Angillis
June 02, 2010, 09:07 PM
I'm starting to be amazed Ace lived as long as he did with that never run policy. I don't think Sabo is going to be a revolutionary, since he would have just gone with Dragon. Well still time to get blown out of the water by the Tenryubito. Damn, I want to see the rest of the Strawhats again soon, but I really need to know what's going to happen with Sabo.

damane08
June 02, 2010, 09:48 PM
Really liking sabo as a character now,
don't wanna see him dying, at least not yet.

Ace never runs huh? I wonder how many times he clashed with marines that way, if he never runs.
and wtf are with the world nobles, they are the ugliest fugs,
ever.


ha haha I thought that too. lots and lots of inbreeding?
I definitely dont want Sabo to die....... at all. I want to see him all grown up.

sarutobi_sensei
June 02, 2010, 10:04 PM
found it really cute that Ace said: besides your...our life is more important.

hehe, he was already not wanting Luffy to die.

and why do I have a feeling that Sabo will die on the next chapter?

El-Thor
June 02, 2010, 10:19 PM
lol at age 10 a kid already has king's haki :D



It's not like he didn't have it before. Luffy and Ace and everyone else were born with the haki. It just showed at different times in their lives.

undertoe
June 02, 2010, 10:50 PM
It's like you people WANT Sabo to die... Every new chapter we get a hundred "SABO WILL DIE NEXT CHAPTER" predictions. What would be the point of him dying? Don't just make blind predictions for the sake of saying something; show us how you think it will contribute to the overall story.

Uriel
June 02, 2010, 11:44 PM
But that's not how the Haoushoku works, either. :eyeroll
The Haoushoku makes people stop doing what they are about to do and makes the weaker of them collapse. It doesn't have any effect on strengthening or weakening attacks - nor can it work as shield. on the strongest, it doesn't have an effect at all. So Akainu would have never stopped hitting Luffy by Ace's most probably still premature Haoushoku.
We don't know enough about Haki to state how Haoushoku works and how some characters can differentiate it between the regular one.

Making fade users is not something that I would relate solely to Haoushoku, but to strong Haki in general.

SenninSage
June 02, 2010, 11:56 PM
Man, I just love the way One Piece is, I really do. Sabo taking off on a ship completely on his own!? Unbelievable.

He seems to really be caught up in his dream of achieving freedom, but I have a very strange feelingi that he'll be robbed of that freedom sooner than he thinks. I think it's significant that Oda is having him talk about freedom in the way that he is. He must've become some kind of slave to the Tenryuubito, or something.

Man, that Haki's some seriously powerful stuff. It must truly be something else for a person to have such control over it that they can direct its immense power as they see fit.

omegakai
June 03, 2010, 12:03 AM
I think that was luffy's haki
<hr noshade size="1">


I thought last week that sabo wud join Dragon

It was Ace's Haki. I'm sure of it since they kinda hinted at it during the war when luffy did his haki and Ace said you too.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/570/02/

Also I am start to see Sabo fade more and more after seeing this chapter.

k-dom
June 03, 2010, 12:16 AM
Well it's not 100% sure now, but it's now clearly hinted that fainting=Haoshoukou.
It's a more simple explanation than the feeling of the aura type

SenninSage
June 03, 2010, 12:25 AM
Fainting alone can't be what the Haoshoukou is about, or else it would be pretty much useless against a powerful opponent, would it not? Since, you know, they don't faint so easily.

It's a far more powerful type of Haki, that is capable of being used like other Hakis we know about, but I expect there are abilities contained within that go way beyond other hakis.

Poneglyph420
June 03, 2010, 12:31 AM
Hey Deffkryz, Great minds think alike. I'm glad there are other like minded people here.. I really prefer discussion over going online, posting and having others try to bash it to pieces....

Ok. I really don't want to make a Haki discussion here, but since it's about Ace.. And Ace was in this chapter.. I digress..

If we want to debate if Ace has Haoushoku Haki let's look at the meaning of Haki in Japanese.. Some try to translate it as spirit or ambition which is very inaccurate.
Haki is not simple but is more accurately translated as "will" or "force"
Haki does not denote control, but raw force. Up until now users of Haoushoku and others who have Haki have exhibited differences.. and based on what Shanks and Luffy have shown it's clear. Based on what has been exhibited in the manga seems like Ace has Haoushoku Haki. But again that's no shock really.

I really would love to see Sabo play a role but no matter if he lives or dies, his impact is estabished. Sabo has become a pirate on his own and no matter how foolish, is aiming for his dreams, and freedom. I can see both Luffy and Ace going for their dreams just like Sabo... He could be a martyr or role model..? It's in the air if something happens to him.. But likely he will face danger in the immediate future (from his family, or the other nobles or Tenryuubito???)

jiminy
June 03, 2010, 12:33 AM
sabo leaving by himself was pretty cool.

but I thought he should have tried to wait for Ace and Luffy. Unless dragon was the one that gave him the ship.

it would be tragic for Sabo to die or get captured by the marines/wg officials/tenryuubito that are heading towards the kingdom

Zeltrax
June 03, 2010, 02:35 AM
ace is probably the youngest to ever use his
king's haki.
Which is expected from Gold roger son, this goes to show how
much potential he has,
and this also reminded us that one piece is a masterpiece.
someone that has the pirate king's blood in him, someone who has enormous potential and who probably have ten times as much adventures then luffy.

Dead.
Just saying how awesome Oda is, killing a character that have everything shounen in a shounen manga.

OQO
June 03, 2010, 03:37 AM
ace is probably the youngest to ever use his
king's haki.
Which is expected from Gold roger son, this goes to show how
much potential he has,
and this also reminded us that one piece is a masterpiece.
someone that has the pirate king's blood in him, someone who has enormous potential and who probably have ten times as much adventures then luffy.

Dead.
Just saying how awesome Oda is, killing a character that have everything shounen in a shounen manga.

That said, now I understand why Oda actually killed Ace, 'cause otherwise Luffy would have never become the Pirate King! It would have been Ace! Even if he wasn't interested in becoming it.
This flashback shows that Ace was really badass at only 10 years!! Awesome... to bad that we didn't see anything cool coming from him in the current time line. I still think that Oda could have killed him in a more "heroic way". He went down tooooooo fast! Some more glimpses of his strength wouldn't have been bad...he even had Haki!!!...hummm...just something isn't right! :notrust:(:s

anaskr
June 03, 2010, 03:52 AM
Ace might have used but even at that age he must have not known what it is !! and i dont think he ever recognized it later or he must have used it to atleast escape how Rayleigh did !!! neways thats that...

hmmm... now dragon is a person who arrives any place at the right time ! (except for the ACE's ARK) so i guess sabo will meet him on the way and join him!! my sure bet :D


put it other way around i also feel that like most others feel, Sabo is the one who met nico robin there :D
[hr]
hey i dont think ace would ever want to be pirate king (he hates his father i dont know for what reason his father was a good man,which ace cudn understand and Whitebeard did and protected him and den later on made him his son)!! and i dont think Gol D Roger Was stronger than whitebeard !! it was just something that Gol D Roger did that made him the pirate king not because he was so called too strong or something

Lord Rayleigh
June 03, 2010, 04:08 AM
1) What does a yonkou do at the top of a mountain?
2) Why does a yonkou run from Bluejam?
3) Why do people have trouble accepting a not-super-strong Dadan
I just want to say that these are not arguments. The theory is that she became a member of the Yonkou LATER and not that she already was in the flashback.

It's as stupid as asking : 1) What does a Yonkou stay 1 year in Fushia Town ?
2) Why does a Yonkou let a mountain bandit beat him ?

3) And Dadan's current strenght is totally unknown. Anyway, she must be strong because she is responsible for a lot of crimes and nobody managed to capture her. Garp also meant he could beat her.

NB : the fact Luffy and Ace left Mt Combo means she no longer raised them. So she probably left Mt Combo to avoid Garp's reaction.

luffy_boy
June 03, 2010, 04:37 AM
Sabo dies.

Ace became a world known pirate, there's no way in hell Sabo didnt find him if he really was out there. And the fact that he didnt show up to rescue ace is more evidence of his death

Either way Ace spoke of him as if he was no more. All signs lead to the conclusion that he didnt make it

Or the distance between where ace and sabo are was to big to cover in that short period of time..... If he would be stationed in east blue at that time it would be impossible for him to make it in time.. it just depends on where he was at that moment when he heard it. :eyeroll

terrorei
June 03, 2010, 05:02 AM
i think dragon has some sort of ability to sense important events or some sort of mystical power, he turned up at logue town in the nick of time, and now here? bit of a coincidence

It was no surprise, that Dragon was in Loguetown, since it was the 20th Anniversary since Gol D. Roger were executed. Besides I'm sure Dragon was following Luffys development as a pirate and concluded, that he will be in Loguetown around this time.


That said, now I understand why Oda actually killed Ace, 'cause otherwise Luffy would have never become the Pirate King!
To be honest, we didn't see much of Ace's fighting power, only once against BB. I could have Imagine an even fight between Luffy and Ace in the future. Luffy just needed to master his Haki a little more, so he could hit Ace at least ^^. In addition, I doubt that Ace would have be such a great hindrance to Luffys Dream. Ace would be like Newgate sailing the see, be free, protecting his family without much interest in the One Piece.

About Haki:
What we learned from Amazon Lily is, that everyone can develop some Haki. This normal Haki is only used for strengthening attacks, or use it as defense (seems to be also the only way to attack a Lugia DF with bare hands). Depending on whether Dark King Raylight have the Kings Haki or not, there is a possibility that normal Haki user who mastered it are able to use the special ability of give away a burst of this Haki so others whos Haki is not that strong can be overwhelmed and faint.

Boa Hancock showed, that a Haōshoku Haki, can also strengthen the users attacks to attack Lugia DF users like Smoker. And its also have that burst which can cause people around it to faint. Considering the Anime the Burst seems to be much stronger, than the subtle aura effect like showen by Shanks or Raylight.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090816183900/onepiece/images/thumb/f/f1/Haki.gif/180px-Haki.gifhttp://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100429041226/onepiece/images/7/7e/Rayleigh_haki.gif

Now to Aces Haki:
1. Its hard to recognize, what kind of haki were used by Ace. We'll have to wait till the Anime will makes it clear. Of course its easy to conclude that Ace have also the Kings Haki since he is the son of Gol D. Roger.

2. Like mentioned before in this Thread we don't know how well Ace could use his Haki since:

2.1 We don't know when he truly learned what Haki is and that he already used it.

2.2 After he learned what Haki is (Since he said "You too?" when Luffy used his Kings Haki*) how much he trained it, since he is able to use a powerfull Lugia DF were he don't need any additional Haki.

2.3. We don't know what constitution the user of Haki need to have to be able to use it. Since Ace was a prisoner for quite a while it possible that he simply didn't have any strength to use it during the War.

Darek Khort
June 03, 2010, 05:47 AM
With that ending to this chapter I can only imagine that Sabo will die next chapter; killed off by his country of birth because they want clear ocean horizon for the celestial dragons.
In fact I have a feeling that his own father will kill him - perhaps by giving the a-okay for the marines to fire on his son. Seriously, I can so imagine that - "He has shamed our family name. He is no son of mine/blah blah blah".

This would also reinforce how evil and damaging the celestial dragons are. Not only are the celestial dragons themselves evil and totally inconsiderate of all other life forms; but they have such a powerful influence that other people are inclined to commit mass murder and even kill their own child so as to keep the celestial dragons happy.

MokiSenpai
June 03, 2010, 06:01 AM
I don't think that Ace was the one, who triggered the haki burst. If he was able to use haki, why didn't he knocked out cold Smoker, when they met at Arabasta?

polyura
June 03, 2010, 06:17 AM
Interesting that Ace and Dadan went missing.

Didn't expect BlueJam to be alive still tbh, he looked pretty stuck between the gates and fire.

Annnd Sabo didn't appear at all in the chapter. Means I've got to put up with another week of "Sabo is that revolutionary guy who saved Robin and will be the next SH because Luffy needs a brother because Sabo was going to die then he got awesome and met Dragon and because he talked to Dragon he must be alive and thus awesome and thus will become the next SH".

It's going to be a long week.

EDIT: Ignore the Sabo rant. Obviously based off an incomplete or false trans.

I have a different rant, hehe. "Sabo will become Eustass Kid!" Check Sabo with the goggles on his hat, Kid has goggles in his hair. What, they are both wearing the same belt buckle? Sounds flimsy on the surface, but Oda has connected the dots from childhood to "current time" with less.

Well other than Kid is from the South Blue and has at this time not recognized his "brother" Luffy, but hey.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/15/

Zehahaha
June 03, 2010, 07:02 AM
I don't think that Ace was the one, who triggered the haki burst. If he was able to use haki, why didn't he knocked out cold Smoker, when they met at Arabasta?


It's pretty clear i guess, it seems that he didn't master it... I mean, if he was mastering it and didn't use it against Akainu, then i guess we can call him dumb

undertoe
June 03, 2010, 07:02 AM
Also Kidd's general facial shape and appearance, his hair type, and attitude, but hey.

joyner
June 03, 2010, 07:02 AM
Things are just getting more interesting, Sabo didn't hop on Dragon's ship and its now confirmed that Kuma is a former revolutionary.

I think two to three chapter before this flashback will finish, but before that we will have an idea what really happens to Sabo. I just have a feeling that he didn't become a pirate or something bad happened to him.

Zehahaha
June 03, 2010, 07:04 AM
3) And Dadan's current strenght is totally unknown. Anyway, she must be strong because she is responsible for a lot of crimes and nobody managed to capture her. Garp also meant he could beat her.




If nobody managed to capture her, it's because of Garp who covered up for her, so that she can raise the kids

LeDuck
June 03, 2010, 07:08 AM
I don't know, but I have the feeling that Dadan is actually Garp's sister. It would explain why Garp covers up her crimes, she might hold the potential to be very strong ( she would be another D. ) and the reason Garp trusts two important children with her. However I don't think that Dadan is Big Mom, she never struck me as the pirate type and I don't see any reason why she would give up her life at the moment and chosing piracy.

bittman
June 03, 2010, 07:16 AM
It's pretty clear i guess, it seems that he didn't master it... I mean, if he was mastering it and didn't use it against Akainu, then i guess we can call him dumb

Oh really? Because if he had used Haki he would have deflected a two foot long fist of magma? Don't recall seeing Whitebeard, in all his haki glory, haki deflecting when Akainu melted half his face off.

For all you know every move Ace made there included Haki. For all we know, Akainu used haki in his final blow. For all we know, Haki has a set of pre-requisites which require you to spin three times, clap your hands between your legs twice and then say "I'M A CLOWN!" before it works.

Really not getting these "Oh he has haki, so obviously he should use it for every single waking second of his life" arguments. Whitebeard has haki and yet all the admirals landed a successful attack on him. Marco has haki, Kizaru landed successful attacks on him. Etc etc etc

Think about it really. If anyone with half decent haki could stop Akainu's magma fist with their back muscles alone, then Akainu wouldn't be an admiral.

sage mode
June 03, 2010, 07:24 AM
If he had Kings Disposition why he didn´t use it against the ID People or the Navy Soldier??

deffkryz
June 03, 2010, 07:37 AM
I don't think that Ace was the one, who triggered the haki burst. If he was able to use haki, why didn't he knocked out cold Smoker, when they met at Arabasta?

Because the Haoushoku doesn't work like that and it wouldn' have worked on Smoker. Haoushoku ain't used to kick Logia's asses... Plus: There's one page between Ace shouting out to Dadan appearing.

Guys and Girls... How often do you think Oda has to place this "Shouting out or looking firmly with centered speed lines -> many characters faint" into the story until you believe that this is a Haoushoku burst? :eyeroll


We don't know enough about Haki to state how Haoushoku works and how some characters can differentiate it between the regular one.

Well, that was already identified by the Kuja and Whitebeard Pirates as Haoushoku twice, plus Luffy said he was mimicing Shanks when Motobaro collapsed. So we can easily be sure that this actually is the mechanics behind that sort of Haki.


Chapter 1: Shanks frightens off Kinkai no Nushi
Chapter 434: Shanks appears on Moby Dick
Chapter 495: Luffy mimics Shanks and makes Motobaro collapse
Chapter 503: Rayleigh releases his "aura".
Chapter 519: Luffy releases his "aura" by shouting out, many Kuja collapse at once, Ran and Marigold identify this as Haoushoku
Chapter 536: Luffy releases Haoushoku again, making Impel Down's Troop Wolves and weakened Bonchan faint.
Chapter 569: Luffy releases his Haoushoku, making executioners faint. Pirates identify it as Haoushoku.
Chapter 570: Shanks and Whitebeard are said to have the Haoushoku as well. It's given by birth, and both Iva-san and Garp think of Luffy's connection to Dragon -> Dragon has it, too. Vice Admirals order weaker willed Marines to stay back.
Chapter 587: Ace shouts out, all of Bluejam's pirates faint... No Haoushoku?! And Dadan appears two pages after Aces shout... No guys: This wasn't Dadan's haoushoku burst, it's Ace's.


That's even clearer than Akainu's powers when Luffy hit him with the iced mast. And there the whole forum was absolutely certain... :eyeroll


I think Haoshoku is the supreme level of haki, approximately only 1 in every one million people has it. It's not just a mere ability to make people with weaker wills faint.

"1 in every one million" - sure... But how many characters has Oda drawn up to now? Even if there weren't a million until now, we're following Luffy's path of becoming the pirate king, so he has to encounter other strong characters that have the Haoushoku and others that have enough will power to stand against it.


As far as I've seen/read, haki is used to strengthen fighting abilities and can be used to negate or overpower devil fruit abilities.

Those are other Haki "ability categories". In Skypiea the "Haki" to predict one's actions is calls "Mantra" - Sandersonia explained that she was able to "hear" what Luffy was about to do - so were Enel, Satori, etc.


Chapter 246: Satori evades both Luffy's and Sanji's attacks
Chapter 250: Satori explains that her training of Mantra ain't complete
Chapters 251 & 256: Aisa has Mantra by birth.
Chapter 257: Gan Fort explains Mantra as ability to listen.
Chapter 519: Sandersonia explains her haki ability to predict Luffy's attacks and that she hears them, and demonstrate that by her Snake Dance evading his Gatling...



This has been shown in the Kuja warriors' haki, Rayleigh vs Kizaru, Teach's comments when Luffy managed to hit him.

That is the Haki to strengthen one's attacks and defense which is used to - and it can be imbuked into weapons.


Even Boa Hancock's mero mero powers isn't that remarkable, but her powerful haki allows her to stand against strong opponents (Smoker, Pacifistas...) Well, this is my opinion only. :D

Well, her Mero Mero powers were the ones that defeated the Pacifistas on blank shot since Hancock is also able to turn cannonballs into stone. The Haki didn't do a thing about those...


If he had Kings Disposition why he didn´t use it against the ID People or the Navy Soldier??

Stronger characters just aren't affected by the Haoushoku. It wouldn't have helped Ace, but made him weaker on the other hand. Even Rayleigh wasn't able to perform this burst more than once in a couple of hours.

Zehahaha
June 03, 2010, 07:42 AM
Oh really? Because if he had used Haki he would have deflected a two foot long fist of magma? Don't recall seeing Whitebeard, in all his haki glory, haki deflecting when Akainu melted half his face off.

For all you know every move Ace made there included Haki. For all we know, Akainu used haki in his final blow. For all we know, Haki has a set of pre-requisites which require you to spin three times, clap your hands between your legs twice and then say "I'M A CLOWN!" before it works.

Really not getting these "Oh he has haki, so obviously he should use it for every single waking second of his life" arguments. Whitebeard has haki and yet all the admirals landed a successful attack on him. Marco has haki, Kizaru landed successful attacks on him. Etc etc etc

Think about it really. If anyone with half decent haki could stop Akainu's magma fist with their back muscles alone, then Akainu wouldn't be an admiral.

He could at least used to HURT Akainu instead of using his fire powers and get owned by Akainu's magma don't you think ?
I've never said that Haki is the ultimate weapon in OP world, or said that it could deflect magma or stuff like that, just wanted to say that if he had Haki, he should have used it to hurt Akainu or something like that instead of using his fire, that's all.

Akainu
June 03, 2010, 07:42 AM
What would that have been worth for?
1) He was still handcuffed and couldn't have gotten away in any case not from ID, not from the ship, not from Marineford. Also don't forget that there are people that simply don't faint that easily like Bluejam this chapter. Granted that was a childs haki-burst, but still, he viceadmirals were there on the ship and I expect them to withstand it.

2) Ace was all beaten up and had given up on living. There was no reason for him to try to sneak out which as I described would have been very futile. That aside, we've heard it twice from Ace with this chapter now, he simply doesn't run away.

The conclusion to draw from this is much more interesting. In effect, this means that Haki can not cancel the cancelling force of Blackbeards DF, not even block it as it seems, because contrary to the fight Ace had with Smoker which he didn't have to win, he should have used it at that point, no?

c0nflikt
June 03, 2010, 07:46 AM
I read that chapter like 6 times and didn't realize ace used haki, it makes perfect sense.

sage mode
June 03, 2010, 07:53 AM
Stronger characters just aren't affected by the Haoushoku. It wouldn't have helped Ace, but made him weaker on the other hand. Even Rayleigh wasn't able to perform this burst more than once in a couple of hours.

But enough Soldiers are ordinary Soldiers. And Rayleigh didn´t use it a second time because everyone would know him

WIzarDE
June 03, 2010, 08:02 AM
I don't know, but I have the feeling that Dadan is actually Garp's sister. It would explain why Garp covers up her crimes, she might hold the potential to be very strong ( she would be another D. ) and the reason Garp trusts two important children with her. However I don't think that Dadan is Big Mom, she never struck me as the pirate type and I don't see any reason why she would give up her life at the moment and chosing piracy.

You know I have to agree with you with the family part cause there's a part were bluejam calls her the boss monkey of mt. colby, and luffys family surname is monkey .

On a side note I really hope sabo lives, I kinda like him :P

But then if he is alive why didn't he do everything in his power to save ace ?

TauCarlos
June 03, 2010, 10:13 AM
I want Sabo to be brought back to marry a princess tenryubitto who is now currently on that ship. That way at least he'll still be alive after this and could also explain why he couldn't save ace. Also since ace has the tat of Sabo's jolly roger on his arm I'm guessing Sabo asked him to sail for him and carry him on his arm or something like that.

It would be weird if he died from cannon fire from the tenyrubitto, it just wouldn't move the plot in any way and all the deaths we've seen of good characters in flash backs have been heroic and touching. A blast of cannon, dead Sabo = not touching at all

EDIT: oh and as for the haki discussion, I don't think anyone can judge Ace seeing as none of us even completely understand what haki is. When I do finally understand what it is which will be about the same time luffy starts using it then I'll make an opinion of ace haki vs Akainu

deffkryz
June 03, 2010, 11:07 AM
But enough Soldiers are ordinary Soldiers.

How many did you see actuall faint from Luffy's Haoushoku burst? Right, only few. So few that Ace and Whitebeard are still rendered dead after all. :eyeroll


And Rayleigh didn´t use it a second time because everyone would know him

He has been recognised before he released his Haoushoku burst (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/17/). Hatchan spit out his name when he appeared on stage. And you can't say it won't weaken its users... Luffy collapsed after turning it on the Impel Down troop wolves and released it in Marineford after a second dosis of Vigorous Hormones.

sage mode
June 03, 2010, 11:16 AM
How many did you see actuall faint from Luffy's Haoushoku burst? Right, only few. So few that Ace and Whitebeard are still rendered dead after all. :eyeroll


But maybe not on the Ship



He has been recognised before he released his Haoushoku burst (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/17/). Hatchan spit out his name when he appeared on stage.

But not the Navy and only that matters



And you can't say it won't weaken its users... Luffy collapsed after turning it on the Impel Down troop wolves and released it in Marineford after a second dosis of Vigorous Hormones.

He was poisoned by Magelan at that Time with the wolves

RAhul.R
June 03, 2010, 11:18 AM
Sorry to say me geting bored my this flash back story any 1 else feel same .i want to see old straw hat crew + 1 new friend and the story goes on

deffkryz
June 03, 2010, 11:23 AM
But maybe not on the Ship

Onigumo would have still been there, Ace still chained.


But not the Navy and only that matters

Garp knew he was there.


He was poisoned by Magelan at that Time with the wolves

But he was already weak and used some of his last strength for that burst. :eyeroll

sage mode
June 03, 2010, 11:33 AM
Onigumo would have still been there, Ace still chained.

But it had slowed down the process


Garp knew he was there.

garb dosen´t count


But he was already weak and used some of his last strength for that burst. :eyeroll

He used his whole strength to make a move and help his friend. Nothing else matters :eyeroll :eyeroll :eyeroll ^^

SuperShuter
June 03, 2010, 11:47 AM
This chapter was a little boring as it didn't follow up the shocking revelations of the previous chapter. I was kind of expecting for it too carry on and the flash backs reach a climax, but it has calmed down again meaning there is going to be about 3 more chapters most likely invovling the tenryuubiti.

I wonder if there is going to be more to the 'sabo thing' as the majority guessed it was going to be down to living without regrets or something for sabos sacraficing his dream. though Most likley the ship will be seen as a threat or disrespect and as the tenryuubiti are beeing escorted by maybe even a admiral sabo might still die.

beastboy
June 03, 2010, 11:53 AM
Why would Ace run away from the boat if he never runs... and Haoshoku Haki is something that not everyone can master, and unnmasterd can only be used with rage, or trying to do the same as shanks :), so the only oportunity that Ace would have had to use it, was when he stopped Akainu's attack with his back... but it wouldn't be quick enough, so he simply used his own back... and screwed the cool tattoo he had on his back...

So stop whining Ace HAS Haki and you have to live wth that!

Uriel
June 03, 2010, 12:01 PM
Well, that was already identified by the Kuja and Whitebeard Pirates as Haoushoku twice, plus Luffy said he was mimicing Shanks when Motobaro collapsed. So we can easily be sure that this actually is the mechanics behind that sort of Haki.


Chapter 1: Shanks frightens off Kinkai no Nushi
Chapter 434: Shanks appears on Moby Dick
Chapter 495: Luffy mimics Shanks and makes Motobaro collapse
Chapter 503: Rayleigh releases his "aura".
Chapter 519: Luffy releases his "aura" by shouting out, many Kuja collapse at once, Ran and Marigold identify this as Haoushoku
Chapter 536: Luffy releases Haoushoku again, making Impel Down's Troop Wolves and weakened Bonchan faint.
Chapter 569: Luffy releases his Haoushoku, making executioners faint. Pirates identify it as Haoushoku.
Chapter 570: Shanks and Whitebeard are said to have the Haoushoku as well. It's given by birth, and both Iva-san and Garp think of Luffy's connection to Dragon -> Dragon has it, too. Vice Admirals order weaker willed Marines to stay back.
Chapter 587: Ace shouts out, all of Bluejam's pirates faint... No Haoushoku?! And Dadan appears two pages after Aces shout... No guys: This wasn't Dadan's haoushoku burst, it's Ace's.

That's even clearer than Akainu's powers when Luffy hit him with the iced mast. And there the whole forum was absolutely certain... :eyeroll
Not every Haki is the same and as far as we know it can be just a powerful Haki, but not Haoushoku. Sadly, we don't have any pirate there to confirm or deny this, it's why I say it's uncertain.

How it works and when it's Haoushoku or not based only in how people faint (Which so far have been shown by characters of unknown Haki as well) it's not "easily be sure" fact.

Beware, I'm not saying "no" or "yes" I'm saying that we have little facts to assume these kind of stuff. There is a probability that He has that sort of Haki, but it's not a certain truth to make other assumptions based on it.

He has been recognised before he released his Haoushoku burst (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/17/). Hatchan spit out his name when he appeared on stage. And you can't say it won't weaken its users... Luffy collapsed after turning it on the Impel Down troop wolves and released it in Marineford after a second dosis of Vigorous Hormones.
I think he meant the marines outside. It would also connect to the fact that He did not wanted to help Luffy outside.

So stop whining Ace HAS Haki and you have to live wth that!
It's not what it's being discussed here. The issue is with the type of haki he has, which is a completely different topic (Related, but not the same)


---
Anyway, I'm more curious on the fact that Dragon had such an strong mate (296 million beri) member that relied so much on him that was willing to make a sacrifice of himself for the ideal.
Someone please enlighten me: The Shicibukai bounties are the previous "rookies" one, right?
Ok, I'm pushing the guessing here because it can be easily said that He left Dragon. But his reactions with Luffy and in Seabody make me think that. And I would assume He knew about Luffy by the Goverment, not directly by Dragon.


And damn, I really wanted Sabo to join the revolutionaries, but I guess Oda has another future for him. But oh well, It was a nice thought.
I want him alive, I kinda started to enjoy his looks and his speeches.

Duzy
June 03, 2010, 02:17 PM
plus Luffy said he was mimicing Shanks when Motobaro collapsed

I've been looking for the source of that like an idiot for some time now. Does "Luffy" in this citation mean a forum user or a situation from an actual chapter ?

Ipoopshootingstars
June 03, 2010, 02:25 PM
Why is no one talking about Kuma being a Revolutionary

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/16

middle panel on the right

zerocooldx
June 03, 2010, 02:34 PM
Why is no one talking about Kuma being a Revolutionary

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/16

middle panel on the right

Well i think most of the people already kind of knew that Kuma might have been a revolutionary when he and Iva squared off at Marineford. Especially when Iva called him an ally or comrade and said that he detested the WG at one time.

undertoe
June 03, 2010, 02:39 PM
Does "Luffy" in this citation mean a forum user or a situation from an actual chapter ?

No one in the chapter directly compares his ability to Shanks.

However, it is still a very clear parallel to Shanks and 1) the way he warded off the Sea King at the beginning of the series and 2) the way he is able to defuse a tumultuous situation with only words.

Ipoopshootingstars
June 03, 2010, 02:58 PM
Well i think most of the people already kind of knew that Kuma might have been a revolutionary when he and Iva squared off at Marineford. Especially when Iva called him an ally or comrade and said that he detested the WG at one time.

I see your point. However now that we have proof he was in fact a revolutionary at one point, why is no on speculating about the details of his switching sides or was he part pacifista at this point?

zerocooldx
June 03, 2010, 03:22 PM
I see your point. However now that we have proof he was in fact a revolutionary at one point, why is no on speculating about the details of his switching sides or was he part pacifista at this point?

Probably because most of us don't know anything about what happened with Kuma after or even why he left the Revolutionaries. If Oda throws us another bone then we could speculate. But right now we just don't know enough info. to make any plausible theories.

Razh
June 03, 2010, 03:46 PM
I for one think that Kuma switching sides was part of the plan for him to infiltrate into WG. There really is no telling what someone with powers like his could have done for revolutionary movement. You don't just change into Government lap dog from being a revolutionary. Plus, he seems to still hold great respect for Dragon. His actions point that he's not entirely loyal to WG.

The only problem here is that Ivankov didn't hint anything about Kuma being a spy.
But yeah, we don't know how long Ivankov has been in prison. Probably for several years. And Kuma's robotic upgrades seem to be a recent thing because Drake was surprised at how far the Pacifista project has advanced.

So, I see it as a possibility. Maybe he knew what will happen to him and maybe he didn't know. At least we know for a fact that he had his devil fruit even back then in the flashback. At least I consider that path in the flame being made by him and not by Dragon.

RezzieThaRapper
June 03, 2010, 04:33 PM
Does anyone else notice that Sabo looks nothing like his parents... not his mother or father... what if they aren't really his folks

This begs for the eventual prediction

What if Doflamingo is Sabo's true father...

And he comes into Goa next chapter (not running into Luffy, but maybe Ace), and he slaughters all the nobles there, and leaves only Stelly alive to tell the World nobles that Sabo did it...

And this prompts protection from Dragon's revolutionary army...

................... I also think that Dragon has once brought Akainu to death's door and that is why Akainu wants Luffy to die so badly... not just cause he is the military dog.............

Doomchen
June 03, 2010, 04:49 PM
I for one think that Kuma switching sides was part of the plan for him to infiltrate into WG. There really is no telling what someone with powers like his could have done for revolutionary movement. You don't just change into Government lap dog from being a revolutionary. Plus, he seems to still hold great respect for Dragon. His actions point that he's not entirely loyal to WG.

The only problem here is that Ivankov didn't hint anything about Kuma being a spy.
But yeah, we don't know how long Ivankov has been in prison. Probably for several years. And Kuma's robotic upgrades seem to be a recent thing because Drake was surprised at how far the Pacifista project has advanced.

So, I see it as a possibility. Maybe he knew what will happen to him and maybe he didn't know. At least we know for a fact that he had his devil fruit even back then in the flashback. At least I consider that path in the flame being made by him and not by Dragon.

I am guessing that something happened in the meantime which made Kuma quit the revolutionaries. Ivankov said during Marineford that he would beat the fear he had of him back into him if he wouldn't stop attacking, so I think that they already had a fight which led to or was caused by the rift that made Kuma leave the revolutionaries

zerocooldx
June 03, 2010, 05:09 PM
I am guessing that something happened in the meantime which made Kuma quit the revolutionaries. Ivankov said during Marineford that he would beat the fear he had of him back into him if he wouldn't stop attacking, so I think that they already had a fight which led to or was caused by the rift that made Kuma leave the revolutionaries

Or maybe Kuma literally dedicated his entire life to the Revolutionary work of Dragon and became the ultimate spy. A deal could have been made between only Kuma and Dragon. Only the two of them knew about it so that there was no room for leaks. And the deal was to get Kuma to turn on the Revolutionaries somehow and to get into the inner workings of the WG, all the while giving Dragon secret feedback. But this could only be done at the cost of his "humanity".

The Noobslayer
June 03, 2010, 05:10 PM
I am guessing that something happened in the meantime which made Kuma quit the revolutionaries. Ivankov said during Marineford that he would beat the fear he had of him back into him if he wouldn't stop attacking, so I think that they already had a fight which led to or was caused by the rift that made Kuma leave the revolutionaries

My 2 cents:

If Kuma isn't a double agent, then I believe he earned the nickname "The Ruthless Tyrant" from the Marines after he accidentally (or had to) kill some Marines and ended up killing women/children/innocent young marines. This event disenfranchised him from the revolution and decided to donate himself to the side of "justice". Though still as a good guy, even working for the government he can not bring himself to kill, evident in his encounter with the straw hats.

Edit: Personally I believe he is a double agent, like Itatchi and Gin from Naruto and Bleach, respectively.

Am I confused with Raleigh? (sp?)

Manta33
June 03, 2010, 05:35 PM
What if Doflamingo is Sabo's true father...

Doflamingo is Okama...U nvr kno but i doubt it

undertoe
June 03, 2010, 08:20 PM
Doflamingo isn't old enough to be his father.

shluffy
June 03, 2010, 08:35 PM
hey did anyone see sabo's pirate flag on the last page? mayb hes a big pirate now. or hes either aboard dragon's ship.

Ipoopshootingstars
June 03, 2010, 09:24 PM
I think doflamingo is old enough to be sabo's father because he was around during chapter 0 strong world but I highly doubt that he is sabo father

undertoe
June 03, 2010, 09:34 PM
I think doflamingo is old enough to be sabo's father because he was around during chapter 0 strong world but I highly doubt that he is sabo father

He was 19 when Sabo was born...

Ipoopshootingstars
June 03, 2010, 10:15 PM
He was 19 when Sabo was born...

I cannot tell what you mean. Are you saying he could be the father or are you saying he isnot old enough to be the father? 19 is old enough to be a father biologicaly (spelling?)

hdiuy
June 04, 2010, 12:25 AM
I can't wait to know the reason why Kuma became a pirate and then a shichibukai. I think that its because Kuma have always been ruthless and does not care about killing the innocent as long as it means getting the job done. He was probably criticised by other fellow revolutionaries and maybe he left out of free will or something.

Poneglyph420
June 04, 2010, 12:46 AM
Well I think that Sabo's parents are indeed his parents are indeed the nobles who claim him. Personally I think Sabo's renown will begin and end with this flashback "mini arc".. Just the simple fact that this point Sabo decided to follow his dreams and set out as a pirate, that's big. Just from this Sabo has already further bonded himself to Ace and Luffy. Not really sure He'd just give up on being a pirate to become a Revolutionary... But he sure could use some help, especially there's Tenryuubito on the way.. Next chapter will be a decisive one for Sabo IMO..

Seeing Kuma has made me consider two things.

It's never been really explained what deal Kuma has with the WG or why he'd allow them to turn him into a cyborg. Especially to the point where it's assumed he's lost his own will..

We really don't know about his Pirate past, and now his relationship with Dragon.

Clearly it's assumed when he whispered to Rayleigh, it was something damn important.. Could have been his last message if he's truly lost his self to the cyborg... We really don't know. As well it Thriller Bark his savagery as a pirate was mentioned.. Is that before or after he met Dragon?? As always it's all shrouded in mystery. I really hope Kuma hasn't lost all of his will and we can find out more about him beyond the flashback...

elitefox
June 04, 2010, 01:00 AM
Well I think that Sabo's parents are indeed his parents are indeed the nobles who claim him. Personally I think Sabo's renown will begin and end with this flashback "mini arc".. Just the simple fact that this point Sabo decided to follow his dreams and set out as a pirate, that's big. Just from this Sabo has already further bonded himself to Ace and Luffy. Not really sure He'd just give up on being a pirate to become a Revolutionary... But he sure could use some help, especially there's Tenryuubito on the way.. Next chapter will be a decisive one for Sabo IMO..

Seeing Kuma has made me consider two things.

It's never been really explained what deal Kuma has with the WG or why he'd allow them to turn him into a cyborg. Especially to the point where it's assumed he's lost his own will..

We really don't know about his Pirate past, and now his relationship with Dragon.

Clearly it's assumed when he whispered to Rayleigh, it was something damn important.. Could have been his last message if he's truly lost his self to the cyborg... We really don't know. As well it Thriller Bark his savagery as a pirate was mentioned.. Is that before or after he met Dragon?? As always it's all shrouded in mystery. I really hope Kuma hasn't lost all of his will and we can find out more about him beyond the flashback...

Kuma still has hope, if franky can find out what vegapunk has done to him lol.

Franky being in vegapunks home may not be just for his upgrade but demodified all pacifistas especially kumag :D

senewe
June 04, 2010, 01:51 AM
At least I consider that path in the flame being made by him and not by Dragon.

I want to know how did Kuma do it? for I am condering that was Dragon's work. If he really was, then Dragon-no mi theory is almost certain. and if he really can control all the elements, I wouldn't like if that fruit is logia type. otherwise this manga will be DRAGON AND RA, by Tite Kubo...

Bugzee
June 04, 2010, 02:09 AM
I want to know how did Kuma do it? for I am condering that was Dragon's work. If he really was, then Dragon-no mi theory is almost certain. and if he really can control all the elements, I wouldn't like if that fruit is logia type. otherwise this manga will be DRAGON AND RA, by Tite Kubo...

I highly doubt that it would be classified as a logia fruit if he can control all forms of weather. It would either be some kind of Paracemia or most probably a Mythical Dragon-Zoan Fruit. :nuts *I favour the latter.*

I really didn't expect the flashback chapters to go on for so long. Hopefully, this will get wrapped up in the next two chapters and then finally we can focus on getting the SH's back together. :amuse

Lee-tyme7
June 04, 2010, 02:42 AM
I thought Ace and Luffy would be stronger than Blue jam but it seem he's alot stronger than they are. Kinda happy to see Sabo sailing out on his own becoming a pirate before Ace & Luffy. But i have a feeling he won't get far cus the tenryubito is on their way. He might be capture by them and then we'll see what Ace was talking about from the war as the "Sabo incident".

FluffBall
June 04, 2010, 03:11 AM
well i'm hoping that he isn't captured and that he is a pretty famous pirate that luffy doesnt know about as he is so dense that he probably never knew. but are there pirates that are famous with a flag that have an "S" on it?
Anyways if ACe survived the fire as he was alive until the execution does that mean dadan is alive or is she dead too?
oh and if franky starts being vegapunks apprentice and learns the secret of kuma an then he finds out that he is good so then he like remodifies kuma so he's back to normal that would be cool!!!!
..........Can't wait for next chapter!!! !!probably end of flashbacks now.

msg
June 04, 2010, 03:36 AM
Finally...able to post again.

Kuma the mutiple agent working for/as - Shichibukai - Marines - Vegapunk - WG - Dragon's revolutionary.:amuse.Can't help noticing a few of Dragon's hooded group on his Ship.I wonder if they're all Dragon's lieutenants including Kuma and Ivankov.

Sabo - to die or not to die.I prefer him not to die cuz he got so much potential to expand as a character.

Duc :D
June 04, 2010, 03:41 AM
Dadan is alive! as I've posted before Ace never would have told Luffy so say hello to Dadan if they ran to each other again. so Dadan's alive.

And I don't think Dadan is Garps sister, bc then she wouldn't freak out when Garp told her to take care of luffy. or maybe they don't like each toehr because of the marine - mt bandit thing like Garp the marine and Luffy the pirate :D

Razh
June 04, 2010, 03:43 AM
I want to know how did Kuma do it? for I am condering that was Dragon's work. If he really was, then Dragon-no mi theory is almost certain. and if he really can control all the elements, I wouldn't like if that fruit is logia type. otherwise this manga will be DRAGON AND RA, by Tite Kubo...

You want to know how Kuma did it? If you can recall, the guy has a repel devil fruit, which allows him to create air bubbles in the shape of a paw to shoot through stuff. Like, if you can recall, his paws could pierce rocks. Also, he sends people flying thousands of miles far. If you can't understand how Kuma could open a straight path through flames with his devil fruit, then I don't know what more can I say.

This straight path here (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/15) looks like it could have been made by one of Kuma's big air bubbles. Notice how it went through the ground as well. The first panel shows that something blew the flames out incredibly fast.
Yeah, it might have been Dragon's wind, but I'm not sure it would have worked that well. Wind can't put out flames that easily. So, I'm more inclined to believe that it was Kuma. We know his devil fruit and we know what he can do with it. Opening a straight path through flames is something that Kuma can easily do.

terrorei
June 04, 2010, 04:40 AM
I would rather consider Invakov for the maker of the path, because you can see him standing in front of all other on one of the next panels. Like it was his turn to do something, and the others are standing back and let him do his job.

Razh
June 04, 2010, 04:50 AM
We see him standing behind Dragon (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/587/15/) in the panel before, so it doesn't mean much. Ivankov tends to walk while he's talking.

terrorei
June 04, 2010, 05:13 AM
True ^^. Missed it somehow. Than you may be right :).

Did you realize, that through out this flashback the kings face isn't shown even once?
Do you think, Oda intend to use him somewhere else latter on? Ohterwise I don't see a reason to hide his face...

Razh
June 04, 2010, 05:23 AM
It could be that. But it could also be a way to distance the king from us. He's so high compared to our main characters that we can't even see his face.

Sure, maybe he'll appear in the next chapter(s).

It's also possible that he's one of Gorosei now. Not yet known whether they are Tenryuubito or not. But this king doesn't strike me as a warrior type, as much as Gorosei do.

Lord Rayleigh
June 04, 2010, 05:29 AM
You want to know how Kuma did it? If you can recall, the guy has a repel devil fruit, which allows him to create air bubbles in the shape of a paw to shoot through stuff. Like, if you can recall, his paws could pierce rocks. Also, he sends people flying thousands of miles far. If you can't understand how Kuma could open a straight path through flames with his devil fruit, then I don't know what more can I say.

This straight path here (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/94012201/15) looks like it could have been made by one of Kuma's big air bubbles. Notice how it went through the ground as well. The first panel shows that something blew the flames out incredibly fast.
Yeah, it might have been Dragon's wind, but I'm not sure it would have worked that well. Wind can't put out flames that easily. So, I'm more inclined to believe that it was Kuma. We know his devil fruit and we know what he can do with it. Opening a straight path through flames is something that Kuma can easily do.

It cannot be an air bubble because it does not repel things. If it was an air bubble, it would have destroyed everything around. So it would have never made a path (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/587/14/) on the ground but something like that (http://www.volonte-d.com/techniques/images/crocodile02.jpg).
The idea that remains is that Kuma repelled air with his paw. The problem is that Kuma's DF powers do not explain the size of the hole. Remember that his Pad Hou's size is the same than his paw's.

A solution would be that it is Dragon's doing, that he has some weather/wind power that can do that. Here we agree : it is very unlikely that wind can make such a hole so easily. The wind'speed would not be the same that the Pad Hou'speed which explains its destruction power.

To me, the good explanation is that this doing is a COMBO (http://img691.imageshack.us/f/lordrayleigh.jpg/) of Ivankov and Kuma's powers. Ivankov injected his growth hormones into Kuma's hand in order to make it big. Then Kuma with his big paw repelled air, what made this path. We all know that with the speed of the repel power, it can do such a thing.

Razh
June 04, 2010, 07:07 AM
Well, I don't know about you, but I recall Kuma being able to create bigger bubbles, like when he's sending people flying (hence the paw mark on the ground when they land) or when he's using Ursa Shock. There's no reason why he can't make a big air bubble and send it flying just like he does with the smaller ones.
Also, whatever put out the flames went through both flames and the dirt. We've seen how Kuma's air bubble just shoots through a rock. So my point is, bigger bubble, wider escape route for the people in Gray Terminal.

It's kind of a pain to have to respond by talking about stuff that is well known already.

monkey D luffy
June 04, 2010, 07:24 AM
the problams with the theory that its kuma's doing are these:
1)the is no distinct paw pattern anywhere around that trail
2)there was a big flash before the path opened, kuma's power never flashed, also air doesnt flash so he can do that with air push.
3) there is no rubble ahead of the path. the path is clear and so does the area after it. all the rubble piles up to the sides.
4) apperently no one got hurt by these "attack" i doubt kuma can make a path using air preassure and not hurt the people in front of it. especially when they are on the path a few seconds later.

RezzieThaRapper
June 04, 2010, 07:43 AM
Somebody said Doflamingo was an Okama, now in reply, I must asked who confirmed that... I think he dresses really eccentric of course, but that could just be like a "Freiza" trick, or "Orochimaru" trick... make the character more effeminate like either by voice or appearance to enhance their evil nature later in the story

OunknownO
June 04, 2010, 08:05 AM
Somebody said Doflamingo was an Okama, now in reply, I must asked who confirmed that... I think he dresses really eccentric of course, but that could just be like a "Freiza" trick, or "Orochimaru" trick... make the character more effeminate like either by voice or appearance to enhance their evil nature later in the story

Agree.... Like joker from batman. But I can't wait for arc with doflamingo and when luffy beat's the sh*t out of him

Lord Rayleigh
June 04, 2010, 08:06 AM
Well, I don't know about you, but I recall Kuma being able to create bigger bubbles, like when he's sending people flying (hence the paw mark on the ground when they land) or when he's using Ursa Shock. There's no reason why he can't make a big air bubble and send it flying just like he does with the smaller ones.
Also, whatever put out the flames went through both flames and the dirt. We've seen how Kuma's air bubble just shoots through a rock. So my point is, bigger bubble, wider escape route for the people in Gray Terminal.
The problem is that to make big air bubbles, Kuma needs to compress the air. Therefore, as soon as he releases them, the air spreads everywhere because of the pressure and thus creates an explosion - the force of the explosion depends on the volume of the bubble in which the air was compressed.
So it doesn't make sense for a big air bubble to maintain by itself while Kuma is repelling it. Indeed, Kuma would not be using his power to maintain the air anymore into a big bubble volume.

Anyway, a Giant Pad Hou (http://www.volonte-d.com/techniques/images/kuma01.jpg) would definitely work. Yet, Kuma cannot do that unless he's got a Giant paw - that's why I thought about Ivankov's growth hormones. I don't see any problem with it.


If you can't understand how Kuma could open a straight path through flames with his devil fruit, then I don't know what more can I say.

It's kind of a pain to have to respond by talking about stuff that is well known already.
I don't make any scornful comments since you're already in pain :p.

kkck
June 04, 2010, 08:08 AM
So sabo is alive? Luffy just forgot about him? I guess ace's death is meaningless now that it turns out he has a remaining older brother who also is a pirate. Not only that but this guy has been a pirate since he was 10, odds are by now -if he is alive- he is a damn strong pirate with a name known throughout the world -perhaps not as sabo though-.

tereta_foba
June 04, 2010, 08:10 AM
what i know for sure is that even if don flamingo IS eccentric, he is one of the leading chars right now...i mean look at him...all the words he has spoken until now are true!!
''THE WINNER OF THIS WAR BECOMES JUSTICE'' and he is THE REAL SHITSIBUKAI....he is really helping the government and thats why he attacks moria.....i believe that he gets a key role in this whole plot otherwise he wouldnt be made by oda to say such big words...

Razh
June 04, 2010, 08:12 AM
the problams with the theory that its kuma's doing are these:
1)the is no distinct paw pattern anywhere around that trail

Are you kidding me? Where would the damn paw leave the mark if it was traveling horizontally? On air?


2)there was a big flash before the path opened, kuma's power never flashed, also air doesnt flash so he can do that with air push.

Yeah, because there's no way that a huge mass of fire would somehow flash if it was being pushed away at the speed of light.


3) there is no rubble ahead of the path. the path is clear and so does the area after it. all the rubble piles up to the sides.

We didn't really see how far does the path go. It could have went on for hundreds of meters as far as we know. Incidentally, the people were more interested in the sea side, for obvious reasons.


4) apperently no one got hurt by these "attack" i doubt kuma can make a path using air preassure and not hurt the people in front of it. especially when they are on the path a few seconds later.

It's possible that Kuma's bubble just went over people's heads. The result would have been the same. Really strong wind would also hurt people if it went through, and so would Hell Wink.

I'm not saying it's not possible it's some Dragon's power, but until we find out more about him, I'm going to stick with Kuma option, simply because creating that path without flames is withing the range of his powers we've seen.

Heh, you're lucky I'm bored. Between writing a paper on the art of admitting you're wrong and apologizing and working on my assignment in German, I prefer discussing over my favourite manga. ;)

Lord Rayleigh
June 04, 2010, 08:41 AM
the problams with the theory that its kuma's doing are these:
1)the is no distinct paw pattern anywhere around that trail
2)there was a big flash before the path opened, kuma's power never flashed, also air doesnt flash so he can do that with air push.
3) there is no rubble ahead of the path. the path is clear and so does the area after it. all the rubble piles up to the sides.
4) apperently no one got hurt by these "attack" i doubt kuma can make a path using air preassure and not hurt the people in front of it. especially when they are on the path a few seconds later.

1) A giant paw (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/lordrayleigh.jpg/) fits the hole.
2) This is the consequence of the massive clearing of the fire/trash. A wind attack would not do any flash by itself either.
3) Actually, all that was there disappear with the attack and all what was around remains. That's why there is a hole only where the attack took place.
4) Nobody got hurt because nobody was where the attack went. You can clearly see that nothing happened where the people were (no wind, no hole etc...) There wasn't any risk since the person responsible for the attack did it where there was a lot of fire. So he knew nobody alive could be there.

And the 2th, 3rd, 4th questions are general questions, not especially linked to Kuma's powers.

PS : I believe into a combo attack of Ivankov and Kuma.

RezzieThaRapper
June 04, 2010, 08:57 AM
I highly doubt that it would be classified as a logia fruit if he can control all forms of weather. It would either be some kind of Paracemia or most probably a Mythical Dragon-Zoan Fruit. :nuts *I favour the latter.*

I really didn't expect the flashback chapters to go on for so long. Hopefully, this will get wrapped up in the next two chapters and then finally we can focus on getting the SH's back together. :amuse

As I say with all my Dragon predictions... he could have eaten a Cloud Fruit...

The Intagibility of a Logia
The Wind from funnel clouds
The Lightning from clouds
The rain from clouds
Could control temperature through blizzards and bringing up heat fronts to cause thunderstorms
Hurricanes
Waterspouts

Taking control of existing "clouds" = Smoke Clouds, Sand Clouds, Fog

The ability to cloud judgment = would fit he's a Revolutionary
[hr]
With that fruit he'd be like walking Armageddon - he'd be the... Most Dangerous Man in The World

joyner
June 04, 2010, 08:59 AM
But not enough to mean that what he did is the exclusive domain of Haoshoku.
I think he has Haoshoku because he is the son of Gol "D." Roger, the probability of Roger's blood line has Haoshoku is very high.
(just my intuition)

frontaLobotomy
June 04, 2010, 09:39 AM
I'm with Razh and Rayleigh, it was more than likely Kuma that made that path.

On a sidenote, I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not.. But the people in High Town and the King seem especially happy about the Tenryuubito turning up and all, but the castle has the mark of the world nobles on it, coincidence? (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/585/06/). I pondered this a couple of chapters ago, but is Goa going to turn out to be one of the 20 Kingdoms the World Government was formed on? Or are they just trying really hard to suck up..

ZZPallando
June 04, 2010, 09:56 AM
As I say with all my Dragon predictions... he could have eaten a Cloud Fruit...

The Intagibility of a Logia
The Wind from funnel clouds
The Lightning from clouds
The rain from clouds
Could control temperature through blizzards and bringing up heat fronts to cause thunderstorms
Hurricanes
Waterspouts

Taking control of existing "clouds" = Smoke Clouds, Sand Clouds, Fog

The ability to cloud judgment = would fit he's a Revolutionary
<hr noshade size="1">
With that fruit he'd be like walking Armageddon - he'd be the... Most Dangerous Man in The World


Well, first, the expression "to cloud judgement" is correct in English but not in French (for example) and may not exist in Japanese either...

Second, it would be too similar to Smoker's fruit. I know smoke and clouds are not the same, but it's way too similar. "Droplets of water" and "small particles" are quite alike.
That said, we could still encounter a "steam" fruit but it would be water like Ao Kiji's fruit and an aspect similar to Smoker's...

But with Oda, we never know and your idea is possible but I still believe Dragon's a dragon (or possibly an Air logia but not "clouds").


Anyway, I'm afraid the future's not so bright for Sabo, who chose the day of the Tenryuubito arrival to show his jolly roger. I feel like he's risking an admiral pwnage at this rate...

undertoe
June 04, 2010, 10:05 AM
Steam is no more similar to Aokiji's fruit then Magma is to Sand. So far a lot of the logia elements have been pair: Smoke/Fire, Darkness/Light, Sand/Magma... That's most of the logias we've seen already paired. It would only make sense that Aokiji's would have a compliment like steam.

Just because everyone associates Magma with Fire doesn't mean they're not an idiot; it's molten EARTH.
[hr]
Though I will say that I could see either Cloud or Wind being used as the compliment to Lightning.

topkomputer
June 04, 2010, 10:38 AM
I don't know if someone has already post this, guys, take a look at Ace's Left hand tatto:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/523/13/

And compare it with Sabo's pirate flagship:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/587/19/

I think either Sabo died or quit becoming pirate, Ace carved his flagship in his left hand.

Manta33
June 04, 2010, 11:22 AM
Somebody said Doflamingo was an Okama

Yea I said it, and I think it's plain as day. He wears a feather outfit, and the sunglasses are trademark on many of the okama that Oda draws..

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/561/04/

His name is flamingo for gods sake. And there are gay undertones to a lot of his conversations..

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/5/8

...I know Oda didn't have him come out wearing a goose outfit and spinning around...but then again not even Iva acts as gay as mister 2. Just because the guy has slight image similarities to Sabo isn't enuf of a reason to think he's his dad. Hell Sabo looks like Zoro to me as well.