PDA

View Full Version : Anime episode 454 Spoilers - Sanji is gay????



NoLimit89
June 05, 2010, 10:27 PM
I heard somewhere that Oda is working closely with the people making the anime to make sure that it's all congruent with the manga - can anyone verify this?

However, I am most surprised about the most recent anime, it suggested that Sanji was hiding the fact that he was gay all the time. (Either that or the island has some way of transforming everyone inhabiting it into "okamas").

And did anyone catch that flower becoming "erect" metaphor and when it bloomed, Sanji said something along the lines of "I'm about to lose myself".

what a naughty episode.

undertoe
June 05, 2010, 11:03 PM
Being an okama isn't the same as being gay.

Sanji discovered his feminine side, to put it simply.

gao_dargon
June 06, 2010, 01:22 AM
but this "fillers" are cannon right?

undertoe
June 06, 2010, 01:39 AM
but this "fillers" are cannon right?

We're not sure yet.

k-dom
June 06, 2010, 02:37 AM
well I don't think the Toei would have make such a big event concerning Sanji character without asking Oda. How would they recover such a plot hole if it appears to be false.
I suppose this okama thing is to help Sanji be able to fight girls in the future. I hope Oda will not change Sanji too much so, that would be very sad.

undertoe
June 06, 2010, 02:40 AM
I think that he will improve his fighting technique by using okama kenpo... I can't see him fighting girls.

monkey D luffy
June 06, 2010, 05:09 AM
i dont know from what he said at the end it seems like he really is gay, not really an okama. he said to nami and robin they will be best friends, it doesnt really add up to his character so he may turned gay on us.

also i doubt this isnt canon cuz like k-dom said this will be a huge plot hole and they wont be able to recover that. also they gave nami powerup that wasnt in the manga (the usage of wind knots, she never used em on the covers) so i think that all of the SH so called fillers may be canon.

THM Nindo
June 06, 2010, 09:43 AM
well I don't think the Toei would have make such a big event concerning Sanji character without asking Oda. How would they recover such a plot hole if it appears to be false.
I suppose this okama thing is to help Sanji be able to fight girls in the future. I hope Oda will not change Sanji too much so, that would be very sad.


That would be hilarious.
Can you think about it :

Girl Opponent : I know that you can't fight girl, Sanji. So you're doomed.
Sanji : I have a secret weapon now!
Girl Opponent : Oh, yeah? What is it?

*Swap his outfit to a okama outfit

Sanji : If I'm a girl too, I can kick your ass!

goldb
June 06, 2010, 10:12 AM
That was a shock when I saw it in the manga covers and it's a bigger shock to see it in the anime. I don't know where they're taking this or whether or not it's cannon but I hope Oda is working close with the production team

Gats
June 06, 2010, 12:23 PM
If you look well, you can see that "Okama-Sanji" has some heavy veins out, like the times when he was really angry. I think his true manly personality is still here somewhere... :D

Maybe he will be schizophrenic. He'll turn into a "girl in heart" against women opponent.

OdaForPresident
June 06, 2010, 12:27 PM
For sure Oda is working close with them. It was stated in some SBS that he discusses the anime with the producer/director. Especially something as vague as the cover arc wouldn't be aired without a talk with oda.

I'm just hoping Sanji doesn't stay okama all the time. It would be fun if he would switch to an okama outfit if he has to fight a girl, but all the time...I wouldn't be feeling that particular character development. Same as a perpetually fat Usopp.

k-dom
June 06, 2010, 12:47 PM
That was a shock when I saw it in the manga covers and it's a bigger shock to see it in the anime. I don't know where they're taking this or whether or not it's cannon but I hope Oda is working close with the production team

Well Oda is not really nice with Sanji, already with the bounty poster...

Dasbones
June 06, 2010, 05:33 PM
Who cares, it's freaking hilarious.

bittman
June 06, 2010, 06:51 PM
For sure Oda is working close with them. It was stated in some SBS that he discusses the anime with the producer/director. Especially something as vague as the cover arc wouldn't be aired without a talk with oda.

I'm just hoping Sanji doesn't stay okama all the time. It would be fun if he would switch to an okama outfit if he has to fight a girl, but all the time...I wouldn't be feeling that particular character development. Same as a perpetually fat Usopp.

Well he would most likely talk with them to make sure they don't absolutely ruin everything. If Sanji turns back up and he's all like "I was just jokkinnng arrrouuunnnnd~" then Oda's not going to go nuts over it.

Besides, if Oda worked too closely he'd never get any chapters done.

To me, in the cover arc, I never thought Sanji had turned. Most likely after days of running away from increasingly freaky Okamas, his mind just snapped.

And no: haven't watched the anime, make no plans to watch the anime. Draws crap out more than Bold & the Beautiful's famously long stares.

Uriel
June 06, 2010, 07:44 PM
It would be awesome that next Sanji poster will be that Okama part of his.

goldb
June 07, 2010, 03:28 AM
It would be awesome that next Sanji poster will be that Okama part of his.

That would be the end of Sanji; any shred of manhood left in him would disappear.:p

OdaForPresident
June 07, 2010, 03:59 AM
It would be awesome that next Sanji poster will be that Okama part of his.

LoL, that would be so awesome, and it would really fit with the way Sanji is being screwed with in the bounty poster. Then all the women of the world would think he's an okama and he would never get lucky. Poor Sanji.

NoLimit89
June 07, 2010, 09:33 PM
a little offtopic but I can't wait to see what new info they release in the anime about obese ussop.

warped1
June 08, 2010, 02:07 PM
i bet when he see's a woman without stubble he with switch back to his usual perverted self

RezzieThaRapper
June 10, 2010, 11:59 PM
What if Ivankanov brings Sanji to Amazon Lily... he will no longer be "Okamanized" in my opinion

But he may develop a horrible habit of getting "Stoned" lol

Wrath
June 11, 2010, 03:07 PM
Most transvestites aren't actually gay, they're just people who enjoy wearing women's clothing.

undertoe
June 11, 2010, 03:17 PM
Most transvestites aren't actually gay, they're just people who enjoy wearing women's clothing.

Cross-dresser =/= transvestite, but at least you have the right idea.

NoLimit89
June 11, 2010, 10:22 PM
Yes I know that crossdressers =/= gay, BUT there are allusions which suggests that Sanji might be gay in that episode. The whole flower metaphor and the fact that he said he wants to be good friends with Nami/Robin instead of how he normally feels about them.

Now I'm not saying that Sanji may be gay originally, it may be some sort of special power from the island or from the stand in queen similar to how everyone gives birth to females on Amazon Lily.

undertoe
June 11, 2010, 10:27 PM
I think you guys are misreading the flower metaphor... it was the awakening of his feminine side, not a boner. Him wanting to be friends with Nami and Robin shows that he now views women as more than fragile sex objects.

NoLimit89
June 12, 2010, 12:29 AM
I think you guys are misreading the flower metaphor... it was the awakening of his feminine side, not a boner. Him wanting to be friends with Nami and Robin shows that he now views women as more than fragile sex objects.

Hope so.

JC_AC
June 13, 2010, 09:45 PM
Nah dudes, Sanji is kinda like the spy of the crew, the James Bond type. He's just playing along the okamas to learn their secrets and/or a way to get to his nakama.

Also, it seems his weakness is that he can't hit a woman, his next oponent will be a girl and will use the okama's teachings about warfare and 0% gender discrimination.

Dasbones
June 14, 2010, 07:45 PM
What if Ivankanov brings Sanji to Amazon Lily... he will no longer be "Okamanized" in my opinion

But he may develop a horrible habit of getting "Stoned" lol

His head would explode if he got anywhere near Amazon Lily.

Poneglyph420
June 15, 2010, 07:27 PM
I don't think Sanji has become gay... But sure seems like he's accepted the feminine side of his psyche.. And perhaps all the repression of being a hopeless romantic is boiling over.. But indeed I do hope that Sanji does reclaim some of his manhood. In the episode of the Anime his embarrassment was what lead to his emotional "transformation".. Maybe somehow he will become more self assured and self aware.. If that's what it takes so he can see all as equal and treat friends as friends and enemies then so be it....

Also the Anime does take things it's own way while the Manga is truly Oda's vision.. So we have to see what happens in the manga since the Anime will never be Canon.

beastboy
June 16, 2010, 10:30 AM
Well I guess thats just hypnosis from the stand-in queen, but he will train there and when he gets free from the hypnosis he will be stronger... but IF SANJI HITS A WOMAN HE WILL LOSE MY RESPECT FOR HIM!

And Sanji will allways be Ero-sanji, that island is just weird!

Bloodwinter
June 17, 2010, 07:34 PM
This is definitely not a sign of Sanji becoming gay. One Piece's Okama has a lot of subtleties written into them, as with many different lifestyles that are in the One Piece world they all have certain codes that they live by. In many ways, they do share common ground with a lot of their real-life inspirations. However, this doesn't make them exact replicas. Not once anywhere had it stated in any way that an okama was sexually attracted to a man. It is just a more feminine (and in a female okama's case, more masculine) way of living. It promotes ascending gender and seeing everyone as people instead of a male of female. Sanji is a rather fragile character when it comes to his mind-set, a lot of his views are based on insecurities. He's too closed-minded when it comes to his character, he views masculinity as his defining aspect and rejects other ways of life due to this. What the Okama saw in him on the Island is that he is consciously rejecting a part of himself to maintain this image. If he were to be any other character in the show, they would have been overjoyed that the Island was filled with friendly people willing to help. However, the rest of the crew is much less worried about things such as male and female and focus only on the great task at hand. Instead, he met them with hostility just because of the way they look and act, rather than immediately befriending them and trying to find a way back to Saboady. This was exemplified by the fact that he ran away from them for days. Chivalry, one of Sanji's character FLAWS, limits him to only truly wanting to protect women and quickly forsakes any man if it came down to that choice. What I think will come of this is not only will the Okama make him more comfortable with himself, but they will make him value every relationship he has rather than holding men in such a low regard. It will make him more determined to protect all of his nakama and thus untap the unlimited potential of the mentality behind saving anyone like the rest of the crew. As Nami said in the CP9 saga, whenever it comes to saving someone there is no limit to their power. Not saying that he doesn't come through for everyone in situations where he has the power to do something, it just hurts him more than it helps in every other situation.

On a physical level I can see where they can really show him a lot of new moves and fighting techniques. They were all shown better on their legs than Sanji during the chases and he was clearly outmatched by Caroline on almost every level. Plus, now that Ivankov is on his way back to this Kingdom, it opens the possibility of Sanji hearing of Iva's adventures with Luffy and give them that common ground for Iva to help Sanji get back to the rest of the crew.

Despite all of this, however, I do think that he will go back to being rather perverted as soon as he sees an actual woman, but I do think a lot of the values he'll learn will stick. I'm sure he'll retain his style as well, because a lot of the attachment to the characters that Oda creates are due to their aesthetics and these little quirks. I don't think he's going to be an Okama, so much as he's just going to be a better person. I think it's a rather clever and solid solution to a major character flaw in this series. Oda is a brilliant writer, I don't foresee him disappointing many people with this revelation.

As far as this being Canon, it definitely is. Oda has said in his SBS that a lot of the fine details and clearer explanations are written in the side panels of his drafts, but he has so much story to cover that he forgoes clarifying one point to the best of his ability to fitting as much new information in a chapter as possible without cluttering it up. In addition, these parts of their journey are title-page stories, not full chapters hence why the episodes are much longer and in-depth in comparison. There just isn't room in the chapters each week. He also said in the same SBS that he likes to clarify these things in the anime because there is a lot more room to fit these things in a 20 minute full-motion episode than there is in 20 pages.

Deo_df
June 21, 2010, 04:34 AM
JC_AC said it all, Sanji is the James Bond character, but he acts like Pepe Le Pu. I think this is the start of a metamorphosis for him where the end result will be all women swooning over him and him being totally indifferent to it. Obviously massively strong characters like Hancock wont swoon, but maybe give instant respect kinda thing. I just cant wait to see Sanji looking cool, suave and totally bad-arse without trying, basically a male Hancock, without the love sickness. I think he is Odas version of a horny teenager and as Oda and most grown males know, with time and experience you can nail or those horny 18 yr olds at will but they are hardly worth the effort.

Razh
June 22, 2010, 03:14 PM
Also the Anime does take things it's own way while the Manga is truly Oda's vision.. So we have to see what happens in the manga since the Anime will never be Canon.

It seems to me that the space filled between cover stories in anime is in fact canon, more or less. It's not like Oda is going to show anything between Sanji running through that hallway and getting dressed as a woman, for example. Oda obviously had the story somewhere, in his mind at the least. So yeah, I'd say he at least shared it with the animators and they animated it. Maybe it's not completely correct in some details, but I'm pretty sure that we saw how Oda imagined Sanji's "transformation".

mars0103
July 11, 2010, 05:29 AM
I heard somewhere that Oda is working closely with the people making the anime to make sure that it's all congruent with the manga - can anyone verify this?

However, I am most surprised about the most recent anime, it suggested that Sanji was hiding the fact that he was gay all the time. (Either that or the island has some way of transforming everyone inhabiting it into "okamas").

And did anyone catch that flower becoming "erect" metaphor and when it bloomed, Sanji said something along the lines of "I'm about to lose myself".

what a naughty episode.

I thought it was a way to carm sanji down. If a crew member is going to a amazon sanji would be killed in seconds I think it was to give him a torch of humility.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 11, 2010, 08:32 AM
If this episode is canoon it is rather strange. It is too great plot twist. So, let's wait for new chapters to prove it or contradict it.

ScratchmenApoo
July 11, 2010, 09:17 AM
If this episode is canoon it is rather strange. It is too great plot twist. So, let's wait for new chapters to prove it or contradict it.

Sanji became an okama on the cover story of the manga as well.
It was only a question of 'How did he become one?' , not 'Did he become one?'.

Most of the Strawhats have had to become closer to the island's theme. Usopp became braver, Chopper brought peace between tribals and animals, Nami started studying the weather etc.
To me, it's much better that Sanji became an okama to suit the theme rather than be an outcast, a stranger, in Kamabakka, fighting the okamas in disgust.

Sanji needed a change like any other Strawhat (assuming they all get something out of this separation).
With his old self, we would have always assumed that every time he meets a female character, he goes crazy.
Now, it's so unpredictable and brings new ways of interaction. It's more fresh. And for a manga that's been going on for a dozen years or more, freshness is something it simply has to have.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 11, 2010, 09:32 AM
Sanji became an okama on the cover story of the manga as well.
It was only a question of 'How did he become one?' , not 'Did he become one?'.
Thanks.:) I really missed this cover page.


Sanji needed a change like any other Strawhat (assuming they all get something out of this separation).
With his old self, we would have always assumed that every time he meets a female character, he goes crazy.
Now, it's so unpredictable and brings new ways of interaction. It's more fresh. And for a manga that's been going on for a dozen years or more, freshness is something it simply has to have.
I deffinetly agree with you about this freashness. It just that it is difficult to change the way you' ve seen the person in such radical way. But I can't say that it is bad. It's just a bit strange, but I agree that it is for good.


Most of the Strawhats have had to become closer to the island's theme. Usopp became braver, Chopper brought peace between tribals and animals, Nami started studying the weather etc.
I agree about Chopper, but it is difficult to assume that Usopp became braver.:) Though we will see it later during some pinch after the reunion of the Straw Hats.;)

chess4
July 11, 2010, 09:45 AM
sanji will not stay like that. sanji is the cool playboy type, and his silliness around pretty women is funny. i think oda did that so that sanji could learn okama kenpo to incorporate it into his style. im sure he will snap out of it when he sees that luffy is in trouble. just like usopp, he will not sty fat. for both if them its a means to an end.

lets not forget that sll the pirate crews we have seen have some cool azz dudes in them. sanji and usopp(when he is acting like sogeking) are 2 of the coolest dudes in the manga. sanji when things get serious, he pulls out a cigarette and take a puff. usopp points to the sky, as if to signal his battle cry. it wouldnt have the same effect if sanji were a fag and usopp was fat.

Aikidoka
July 12, 2010, 12:25 PM
I agree with Bloodwinter the most -- brilliant post there, by the way. However, my main concern with that theory is, while something that could be a huge and influential arc of character development, something that big of a change to his personality would have to have more time spent on it. I don't really see why, if this was such a big moment in Sanji's life (viewing people for who they are, not their gender), Oda chose to leave it to the anime and cover arcs to show such a change.

Because of that, I think the below possibility is more likely.

Nah dudes, Sanji is kinda like the spy of the crew, the James Bond type. He's just playing along the okamas to learn their secrets and/or a way to get to his nakama.

elitefox
July 13, 2010, 03:42 AM
sanji will not stay like that. sanji is the cool playboy type, and his silliness around pretty women is funny. i think oda did that so that sanji could learn okama kenpo to incorporate it into his style. im sure he will snap out of it when he sees that luffy is in trouble. just like usopp, he will not sty fat. for both if them its a means to an end.

lets not forget that sll the pirate crews we have seen have some cool azz dudes in them. sanji and usopp(when he is acting like sogeking) are 2 of the coolest dudes in the manga. sanji when things get serious, he pulls out a cigarette and take a puff. usopp points to the sky, as if to signal his battle cry. it wouldnt have the same effect if sanji were a fag and usopp was fat.

Well first, Usopp isn't just fat, he is huge see the difference in height? X3

I wonder if he will shrink back to his original height lol. I mean his bones and his organs? what am I thinking lol, this is an anime.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 22, 2010, 10:05 AM
After reading the latest chapter I'm releaved that Sanji didn't become a gay)) His style of the man among men would have been ruined))

ScratchmenApoo
July 26, 2010, 03:33 PM
After reading the latest chapter I'm releaved that Sanji didn't become a gay)) His style of the man among men would have been ruined))

I was also a bit relieved to see Sanji go back to his old self.
What was not expected, though, is that he most likely will not stay in Kamabakka for much longer, which means he won't learn okama fighting styles...

And it also means my previous post was completely shattered :(

hy4k
July 26, 2010, 03:56 PM
fillers are canon. sanji became a tranny for a bit but now he's vowed to never do it again

Lord Rayleigh
July 28, 2010, 03:12 PM
So this topic's question is answered and it has to be closed. Fortunately, the answer is straight Sanji.

Kaiser Will
July 28, 2010, 08:16 PM
Well, since the answer was cleared in the latest chapter of OP, this thread will be closed for now.
But if we ever see again an Okama/Gay Sanji fell free to PM for opening it again.