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Akainu
June 09, 2010, 02:56 PM
If you haven't seen the goodies yet, you can check them out in the Spoiler Pics and Summaries thread This is where you can discuss all about them. But remember no spamming.

Please remember: NO SPOILERS OUTSIDE THE SPOILER THREADS. This rule will be strictly enforced. Please respect those that don't want to be spoiled. Thanks :)

Attention: There won't be a chapter for us in the week starting monday 14th, so don't expect any spoilers :oh

The new chapter is out! Get it HERE (http://mangastream.com/)! :nuts

Davit08
June 22, 2010, 10:25 PM
and the flash back ends! Now i'm more excited in how the flashback ended! and is that dadan watching luffy take off!

Deo_df
June 22, 2010, 10:25 PM
Finally the Flashback finishes, I hope there are more pages after that. I wonder what is going on with dragon? Didnt really look like he picked up Sabo. Dadan actually like Ace, lol.

damane08
June 22, 2010, 10:30 PM
Finally the Flashback finishes, I hope there are more pages after that. I wonder what is going on with dragon? Didnt really look like he picked up Sabo. Dadan actually like Ace, lol.

I know right, seems like she was crying when he left. but yes, flashbacks are done. I hope there is more on Dragon in this chapter though.

llamapie
June 22, 2010, 10:31 PM
I know this isn't popular but I think Sabo is dead. For people thinking it makes no sense to introduce him to kill him so quick, I think he had a purpose in that. Several purposes, probably.

1) It showed a transforming moment in Ace, much like the one Luffy is undergoing now.

omegakai
June 22, 2010, 10:34 PM
so the flash back is ended with ace and luffy setting sail. I also see a panel with sabo next to the page with dragon, not sure its a memory or if hes actually alive somewhere or with dragon. Looking forward to see what will be happen after the flashback

c0nflikt
June 22, 2010, 10:38 PM
Yay we're back in the present, hopefully sabo isn't dead or they are showing sabo's death matured ace, and ace's death matures luffy.

hunter71485
June 22, 2010, 10:45 PM
If you look carefully, Sabo only appears as a reminisced thought, like when someone told you "remember what he said" and his face pops up in your mind.

Bloodwinter
June 22, 2010, 11:03 PM
I'm glad the flashback is finally over. I felt it was stagnating a tad and it's nice to see them all setting off to be pirates. What I'm most excited about though, is the fact that we're back into the present day and more scenes of Dragon. It needs to be tomorrow already so I can get my One Piece fix.

rickfox
June 22, 2010, 11:11 PM
Narrator: A small harbor village somewhere in the East Blue

Ivankov: You're late Dragon!!! How long are you gonna make me wait!?
Dragon: sorry
Ivankov: Oh....!
Crew: Hey!! treat him immediately!!

------------------------------------------

what is this?

Freakzin
June 22, 2010, 11:14 PM
prolly Dragon picked up badly hurt Sabo, and they saved him

Bloodwinter
June 22, 2010, 11:14 PM
Narrator: A small harbor village somewhere in the East Blue

Ivankov: You're late Dragon!!! How long are you gonna make me wait!?
Dragon: sorry
Ivankov: Oh....!
Crew: Hey!! treat him immediately!!

------------------------------------------

what is this?

As much as people would hate to think this, it could be Sabo that they took aboard the ship and helped medically. It would support one of my theories but I'm still waiting to see if it's actually him. If he does survive than this is perfectly setting up what I think to happen next.

bittman
June 22, 2010, 11:15 PM
Narrator: A small harbor village somewhere in the East Blue

Ivankov: You're late Dragon!!! How long are you gonna make me wait!?
Dragon: sorry
Ivankov: Oh....!
Crew: Hey!! treat him immediately!!

------------------------------------------

what is this?

Hopefully un-related....hopefully...(one of an increasingly alarming few who think dead Sabo should stay dead).

Could also be an Oda mind-fuck. We're all like "omg Sabo", and then 135 chapters later Dragon reveals he recruited Bluejam and we're all like "FFFFFFUUUUUUU-"

That's right folks, starter of "Dragon rescued Bluejam theory" was me! Remember this in 135 chapters!

(Chapter looks ok though. Nothing "likezomg", but a good wrap up of things. Last page is an interesting question...

darklide
June 22, 2010, 11:18 PM
Who is the child doing boulder training?



Narrator: Going back a few....
The night the Celestial Dragons ships arrived at the Kingdom of Goa....

Child: Did you see earlier today? Huge faced man!! Look over there, even their ship is huge
Child lifting a boulder: 580.... 581


Edit:

Could that be zoro?

1kimmywimm
June 22, 2010, 11:25 PM
Who is the child doing boulder training?



Edit:

Could that be zoro?

i'm pretty sure its zoro!! ;D b/c doesn't it also show someone with one of those wooden training swords too? that also kinda makes me think its zoro.

darklide
June 22, 2010, 11:28 PM
Yeah the wooden sword training and the boulder training tipped me off(zoro is one of there rare characters in OP who would do such type of training)

hunter71485
June 22, 2010, 11:28 PM
Who is the child doing boulder training?



Edit:

Could that be zoro?

Could be... forehead and hair sure looks like it.

Bloodwinter
June 22, 2010, 11:40 PM
I said "small world" countless times in this show, the biggest one being Brook when he revealed he was part of the crew Crocus was talking about in the beginning of the Grand Line, but for that Dojo to be on the same exact Island that Luffy grew up on, that would be insane. Unless of course, Sabo drifted and he ended up where Dragon's ship ended up by chance.

bittman
June 22, 2010, 11:45 PM
Who is the child doing boulder training?



Edit:

Could that be zoro?

See, whereas Sabo being alive wouldn't be a good plot twist, that would be.

Heck, now I'm all curious who this kid is. Please don't be Sabo.

Besides, with Luffy getting more backstory I think it's time we got some for Zoro. As far as Strawhat's go, Zoro has always had the least. I'd totally hit any flashback of Zoro any day of the week like it was some hot supermodel!

ish3
June 23, 2010, 12:31 AM
whoever predicted 1/3 flashback 1/3 half way point and 1/3 present time good job
also damn i'm still feeling sorry for luffy
i rarely hear him doubt himself

"what is pirate king? I am weak" wow.

Ex-Shadow
June 23, 2010, 12:43 AM
Well, I'll be happy if Sabo is indeed alive and will be shown in several more chapter. But, I highly doubt it. Oda has never show us even a faintest hint about Sabo like he did with Rayleigh, Crocus, or Brooke before.

The end of flashback chapter. And a hint about chapter 590. Maybe it'll show us Luffy is training. I hope there'll be no timeskip or at least the timeskip is nomore than half a year.

msg
June 23, 2010, 12:45 AM
Just reread the spoler scripts - thats sabo alright.Who else could it be Dragon been saving? Bluejam?.So dragon been staying back for awhile at Goa while his crewmates sail off first probably stopping by Zoro's hometown for food and supplies.Wonder what he's up to overthere?probably get his face tattoo? lol.Look at his face.

SenninSage
June 23, 2010, 12:54 AM
Man, so good. This acknowledgment by Luffy that he's weak is a very big deal. With this kind of acceptance that he simply isn't strong enough right now, and his seemingly questioning ability to become Pirate King, this will lead to some fantastic developments for him strength wise.

Also, the flashbacks were fantastic the whole way though; I just love them.

Poneglyph420
June 23, 2010, 12:58 AM
Well Dragon saved someone.. (So I'm sure many will assume it's Sabo) All that says to me is Dragon saved someone.... I'm praying it's not Sabo, and after seeing Ace and Luffy mourn together, I'm pretty sure Sabo is gone.

But I'm not really sure based on the images I've seen..

Either way seems like a great ending to this flashback and a new beginning for Luffy. It's gonna get hectic for sure...

Bloodwinter
June 23, 2010, 01:01 AM
Man, so good. This acknowledgment by Luffy that he's weak is a very big deal. With this kind of acceptance that he simply isn't strong enough right now, and his seemingly questioning ability to become Pirate King, this will lead to some fantastic developments for him strength wise.

Also, the flashbacks were fantastic the whole way though; I just love them.



That is actually exactly what I was thinking from the new pictures. The entire time we have seen Luffy, he was always talking about being the pirate King. He never ran in battle, he always fought people head on with the intention of beating them and keeping his nakama by his side. With what happened at Saboady Archipelago, not being able to save a single crew member or stand even a little bit of a chance against one Admiral, it must have shaken him a lot, being that it was the first time he told everyone to retreat. Then he went to save Ace and with all that happened in the war, he realized that he was just an ant in the storm and that his power paled in comparison to theres, not to mention he couldn't save his brother either. These have all diminished his self-esteem to the point of a mental breakdown.

I'm wondering what will happen, but with that panel being the /<One Piece> panel it looks as though we have to wait another damn week to find out what happens.

Bertosch
June 23, 2010, 01:05 AM
Well Dragon saved someone.. (So I'm sure many will assume it's Sabo) All that says to me is Dragon saved someone.... I'm praying it's not Sabo, and after seeing Ace and Luffy mourn together, I'm pretty sure Sabo is gone.

But I'm not really sure based on the images I've seen..

Either way seems like a great ending to this flashback and a new beginning for Luffy. It's gonna get hectic for sure...

Yeah, but Oda revealed tragedy after tragedy... Maybe now it is time for a happy ending with Sabo. Actually I dont really care if he is dead or alive. But it would be like all the times... Someone from the main characters past passes away. Bla bla bla. It gets boring by the time.

Ero-Sanji
June 23, 2010, 01:19 AM
I would appreciate Sabo's survival. His death was a lot "weaker" than other flashback deaths except for the death of Kuina which I still can't accept ad Tashigi to the mystery and it makes me confused.

Anyway I didn't like the way Sabo died on the other hand this could be the major turning point in his life to actually join the rebels.

msg
June 23, 2010, 01:39 AM
Gee..whats wrong for sabo being alive?Is sabo being alive makes the storywise more duller in the future?I'm sure Oda have an explaination for Sabo not being able to communicate with luffy/ace before ace's death.I'm really sure thats sabo Dragon been saving.Who else could it be? some random fisherman?It's certainly not Bluejam.Whats the likelyhood? then again i could be wrong and oda decide to throw that curveball again....shoot me lol.

Whatever Oda has for sabo, i'm all good.dead or not dead.
poor luffy

Poneglyph420
June 23, 2010, 01:52 AM
It's totally cool for Sabo to be alive, and if that's what Oda decides.. fine.
Actually it does seem like Dragon is saving someone, and it could be Sabo..

Either way I don't care, but I really thought the death scene for Sabo was brief but tragic.. IMO it was a turning point.. Oh well..

Now I'm really wondering what Luffy will do to overcome his depression.. I wonder if the Kuja help train Luffy or will Jinbei or if he will seek out Rayleigh and learn from him.. but no matter IMO he needs help to overcome..
It's gonna be a long road ahead, damn!

patz
June 23, 2010, 02:31 AM
Oda sure know how to play with his fans feeling. He knew a lot of people would be pissed after Ace's death. So he gave us Sabo instead.

TwEeD
June 23, 2010, 02:41 AM
Now I'm really wondering what Luffy will do to overcome his depression.. I wonder if the Kuja help train Luffy or will Jinbei or if he will seek out Rayleigh and learn from him.. but no matter IMO he needs help to overcome..
It's gonna be a long road ahead, damn!

I hope Jinbei will deliver the spiritual/emotional assistance needed and that Hancock, in response to him saying he's weak, will offer to start training Luffy to get some level of control over his Haki.

OdaForPresident
June 23, 2010, 02:43 AM
I also think that's sabo he saved, who else could it be? maybe some random victim of WG crime, but I don't think so.

Imagine the crew coming back together, Luffy to crew: now I've lost both my brothers, Ace and Sabo. Zoro: Sabo, I know that name...

Anyway, whether Sabo ends up dead or alive, Oda's gonna make it awesome either way.

elitefox
June 23, 2010, 03:08 AM
Can't wait for the manga to come out.

Wow it is back to the present, and luffy is regretting... what is the pirate king?

He has the most freedom in the sea, remember that luffy :D

loloy
June 23, 2010, 03:44 AM
Can't wait for the manga to come out.

Wow it is back to the present, and luffy is regretting... what is the pirate king?

He has the most freedom in the sea, remember that luffy :D

maybe you misunderstood what luffy just said
or
you're joking right?

Gol D. Sparrow
June 23, 2010, 04:00 AM
That kid which was training sure is Zoro because if you remember when Straw-hats learnt that Dragon was Luffy's father Zoro wasn't present i believe that it was a hint from Oda

Lyn685
June 23, 2010, 04:40 AM
Crew: Hey!! treat him immediately!!
Surely it isn´t Dragon that is hurt.
So, who is it?
Who other than Sabo himself?

Omnion_1990
June 23, 2010, 05:04 AM
That kid which was training sure is Zoro because if you remember when Straw-hats learnt that Dragon was Luffy's father Zoro wasn't present i believe that it was a hint from Oda

nah he was there:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/16/

SharpKnives
June 23, 2010, 06:18 AM
Chapter so goooood! I feel bad for all the Boa haterz; they'll be seeing a lot more of her.

hy4k
June 23, 2010, 06:31 AM
Sabo the revolutionary confirmed

possibly has amnesia too

sarutobi_sensei
June 23, 2010, 06:39 AM
Surely it isn´t Dragon that is hurt.
So, who is it?
Who other than Sabo himself?

Exactly, he ain't dead. He's in the RA. And the meeting of him and Luffy will occur when Luffy meets his dad.

But I dunno if Luffy will be happy that his dad didn't show up to fight the Marines.
[hr]
Or couldn't do anything even if he wanted.

bittman
June 23, 2010, 07:00 AM
Hmm, I'm not sure about that line in the spoiler script. I mean, it seems completely out of place since it's just one line of "Hey, treat him immediately", and no "who's that kid" or Dragon saying "treat this person immediately, their life is in danger".

I would like to know what word has been translated as "treat", since in my eyes it seems like they might be saying something like "attend to him (Dragon) immediately" since he just returned to the ship.

If someone was being physically treated from fatal injuries, then surely there would be more reaction than one throwaway line like that. Heck, in the next shots Dragon seems completely alone and no-one is exactly hustling out the surgeons.

BlackHair
June 23, 2010, 07:06 AM
Narrator: Current time, Calm Belt, Female Island (Amazon Lily)
I have been waiting for this. Thank you Oda, it was rly a hard time.

Scion
June 23, 2010, 07:36 AM
Thank god flashback ends :p They were great but i am so anxious to see the present time luffy and how will deal with the whole situation. I think chapter 590 will pick up with jimbei supporting luffy and explain him that he is not weak but untrained. Then he will proceed with Hancock to explain Kings haki to him to get the necessary upgrade to fight admirals. Something like that is coming!!

I am excited :p

Freid
June 23, 2010, 07:54 AM
I for one don't want to see a training arc.. not one piece style. More of a naruto thing....any power up luffy gets I want to be off screen.....
[hr]
I get how luffy feels but he should understand as he was told before he went to do the war that he will be nothing but an ant compared to everyone else. Although he wasent exactly an ant there, the marines still had the advantage even after ace was saved. Whilst the pirates goal was to save ace and then safely get him out of there, the governments goal was simply to kill ace which could have been done at any time. The marines were able to go at full power but WB even had to hold back so he doesn't hurt ace in the process..... but I gues luffy is bound to blame himself cause he's ace's bro. I wonder how he's going to return to the original luffy

Razh
June 23, 2010, 07:54 AM
Hmm, I'm not sure about that line in the spoiler script. I mean, it seems completely out of place since it's just one line of "Hey, treat him immediately", and no "who's that kid" or Dragon saying "treat this person immediately, their life is in danger".

I would like to know what word has been translated as "treat", since in my eyes it seems like they might be saying something like "attend to him (Dragon) immediately" since he just returned to the ship.

If someone was being physically treated from fatal injuries, then surely there would be more reaction than one throwaway line like that. Heck, in the next shots Dragon seems completely alone and no-one is exactly hustling out the surgeons.

Well, the spoiler also says that it's the evening of the same day when Tenryuubito came to Goa. That was morning right?

Anyway, Dragon could rescue Sabo and meet up with his friends later. We've seen that he does this thing often. Goes somewhere alone, I mean. Perhaps he wanted to feel the pulse of the nation or what not, or to see his real enemy with his own eyes. If he was among the crowd, he would probably do something to help Sabo.
Anyway, I don't think that Oda showed Dragon once more just for us to see that he's really tired and hungry. Especially since the flashback ends in the same chapter. And when Ivakov, or whoever it was says:"Oh!", it seems to me that Dragon had someone under his cape, who they couldn't see at first. Having that said, I'd like to dismiss Bluejam, for he is too big not to be seen under Dragon's cape. :p

Oh yea, this theory also requires Dragon to be able to fly, but seeing how his power has something to do with wind n stuff, I wouldn't put it in impossible department. And he had to get to the other island fast for less than a day somehow.

deffkryz
June 23, 2010, 07:56 AM
Well... if Oda manages to break away from his scheme to kill off characters he introduced in flashbacks and rescues Sabot after all by making Ace's death almost meaningless, he'll probably be able to create some superior training arc which easily pales those of both Naruto and Bleach.

So... One Piece, Part II begins: Luffy's departure from Dawn Island is the starting signal.

Freid
June 23, 2010, 07:57 AM
Exactly, he ain't dead. He's in the RA. And the meeting of him and Luffy will occur when Luffy meets his dad.

But I dunno if Luffy will be happy that his dad didn't show up to fight the Marines.
<hr noshade size="1">
Or couldn't do anything even if he wanted.

I don't see any reason for him to be pissed. Dragon ain't ace's dad. If it was luffys execution then dragon would definately have shown up

Razh
June 23, 2010, 07:58 AM
I for one don't want to see a training arc.. not one piece style. More of a naruto thing....any power up luffy gets I want

Funny, I don't want to see Naruto style training because there are other more interesting stuff we could see. If Luffy is to train, then I can live with not seeing much of his training at all, so we can see the results in a real battle later. In Naruto, you see the most of the training, and you still have to wait for battle to see wtf he has learned. That's just wasted space. One Piece can't afford that now. Fans are hungering for other Strawhats.

Bigall
June 23, 2010, 08:03 AM
If it is true that Sabo is alive, then why didn't he try to save Ace? :huh
I believe that Sabo is alive. I just amazed we didn't do anything during this war to save Ace...

Freid
June 23, 2010, 08:08 AM
If it is true that Sabo is alive, then why didn't he try to save Ace? :huh
I believe that Sabo is alive. I just amazed we didn't do anything during this war to save Ace...

Well it could be amnesia as many has stated before... or we could later on see sabo cryin and a flashback kinda thing of sabo begging dragon to go and help save ace and dragon says something like it is not yet time to face the government

Razh
June 23, 2010, 08:10 AM
If it is true that Sabo is alive, then why didn't he try to save Ace? :huh
I believe that Sabo is alive. I just amazed we didn't do anything during this war to save Ace...

Either he lost his memory (doubtful), or he was too fucking far to be able to help. Not everyone is Kuma. And it's not like a lot of time passed from Ace's capture to the date of his execution. Really, his execution was announced like 2-3 days earlier.

Or Sabo is dead.:p

THM Nindo
June 23, 2010, 08:17 AM
Well... seems like it's the last week of flashback!
Can't wait to go back to the real story...



http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6362/sshot20.th.jpg

Narrator: Going back a few....
The night the Celestial Dragons ships arrived at the Kingdom of Goa....

Child: Did you see earlier today? Huge faced man!! Look over there, even their ship is huge
Child lifting a boulder: 580.... 581

Narrator: A small harbor village somewhere in the East Blue

Ivankov: You're late Dragon!!! How long are you gonna make me wait!?
Dragon: sorry
Ivankov: Oh....!
Crew: Hey!! treat him immediately!!

Dragon: What about food?
Crew: The village was kind enough to share us some.

Dragon: Let's set sail then. We're returning to Vertigo!!
[/fieldset]

Talks about a child on the crew.
And talks about treating someone that is injured.

I think it's pretty clear (90%) that Sabo is indeed alive and in the RA.
My hope for him being the green-haired guy we saw with Robin are going up! :tem

Also, is it me, or those this mean that Sabo lived.
On that pic, you can see that the child is actually playing with what seem like a lead pipe, the exact same weapon that Sabo was using :
http://img697.imageshack.us/f/sshot20.jpg/

And you can actually see Sabo on the right page (although it might just be a flashback before he left the island...)

sarutobi_sensei
June 23, 2010, 08:24 AM
I don't see any reason for him to be pissed. Dragon ain't ace's dad. If it was luffys execution then dragon would definately have shown up

Cause if your dad is the leader of a Revolutionary Army, and the biggest battle against the Marines, the Government's dogs is happening, he should come and help against it.

Now, the time probably wasn't the best, or the RA new of something that the Government would use in case they appeared.


If it is true that Sabo is alive, then why didn't he try to save Ace? :huh
I believe that Sabo is alive. I just amazed we didn't do anything during this war to save Ace...

True, but he probably wasn't able to save him, either by order of Dragon, or by being busy with RA stuff. Sure it ain't no excuse, but still...


Either he lost his memory (doubtful), or he was too fucking far to be able to help. Not everyone is Kuma. And it's not like a lot of time passed from Ace's capture to the date of his execution. Really, his execution was announced like 2-3 days earlier.

Or Sabo is dead.:p

It was actually announced 1 week before. Remember in SA they were giving out posters of his execution, and 1 week passed from SA to the execution.

Shanks got there on the same day, after having fought a battle with Kaidou the day before.

msg
June 23, 2010, 08:33 AM
@thmnindo

look again-very likely that is zoro practicing his bokken hitting at the strawstick.Theres an oriental style roofing or building at the area he is practicing.The RA visiting the place just happens to be zoro home village or town.

Razh
June 23, 2010, 08:41 AM
It was actually announced 1 week before. Remember in SA they were giving out posters of his execution, and 1 week passed from SA to the execution.

Shanks got there on the same day, after having fought a battle with Kaidou the day before.

Oh, that's right. Anyway, do you think that a ship can sail from anywhere in the world to Marineford in less than a week?
And Shanks coming in the same day doesn't mean much. As it was said, Kaidou was about to attack Whitebeard and Shanks stopped him. Whitebeard was probably close to the underwater tunnel anyway, since he was about to attack Marineford. So Shanks probably wasn't too far either.

But let's say Dragon and Sabo were in South Blue, where we last saw Dragon. Even with eternal pose of Shabondy or Marineford, it would still be a pretty long trip. More than a week in any case.
[hr]
The first kid training is Kuina most likely. Notice the hair and the 2-handed style. And the second is Zoro.

Dragon's conversation is on 3 panels only and Sabo can't be seen. But you can bet ur ass that those 3 panels weren't put there just to show that Dragon was waited and now they're going back to Vertigo island. Plus he seems to be carrying something under his left arm and it's emitting some sounds.

deffkryz
June 23, 2010, 08:52 AM
Talks about a child on the crew.
And talks about treating someone that is injured.

But you have seen that child lifting a heavy stone on one other panel - three rascals next to him watching Dragon's ship? upper right panel (http://www.imagebam.com/image/ef697f85550428)...

THM Nindo
June 23, 2010, 09:10 AM
@thmnindo

look again-very likely that is zoro practicing his bokken hitting at the strawstick.Theres an oriental style roofing or building at the area he is practicing.The RA visiting the place just happens to be zoro home village or town.

That would make sense...
But what would be the purpose of showing this?!

Oda, so far, doesn't show any useless thing...
If he's showing Dragon again, that's because it's somewhat important.

DLord.Van.Buuren
June 23, 2010, 09:12 AM
Oda, so far, doesn't show any useless thing...
If he's showing Dragon again, that's because it's somewhat important.

how would it be important , im assuming he will just make his usual speach about this corrupt world .

Razh
June 23, 2010, 09:17 AM
That would make sense...
But what would be the purpose of showing this?!

Oda, so far, doesn't show any useless thing...
If he's showing Dragon again, that's because it's somewhat important.

Once again, the kid practicing with the sword using both hands is Kuina in front of the dojo and the kid lifting a rock is Zoro. We know for a fact that she always trained in dojo and was more of a finesse fighter while Zoro trained to increase his strength and stamina so he can wield two swords at once. Plus the first silhouette has longer hair, like Kuina.
As for the purpose, there isn't much. It's just cameos.



Dragon's conversation is on 3 panels only and Sabo can't be seen. But you can bet ur ass that those 3 panels weren't put there just to show that Dragon was waited and now they're going back to Vertigo island. Plus he seems to be carrying something under his left right arm and it's emitting some sounds.

DARK
June 23, 2010, 09:20 AM
I'm glad that the flashback with Ace and Sabo is out of the way. It's kinda interesting what Oda plans to do next.

beastboy
June 23, 2010, 09:26 AM
Theory:
Kuina fell from the stairs, Dragon saved her, but she asked for him to fake her death.

And so he did... >.>

Far fetched, but I never accepted Kuina's death, and this way it could be possible...

Flavx
June 23, 2010, 09:26 AM
Once again, the kid practicing with the sword using both hands is Kuina in front of the dojo and the kid lifting a rock is Zoro. We know for a fact that she always trained in dojo and was more of a finesse fighter while Zoro trained to increase his strength and stamina so he can wield two swords at once. Plus the first silhouette has longer hair, like Kuina.
As for the purpose, there isn't much. It's just cameos.

it may be a bit far fetched, but what if the purpose of showing kuina and zoro is that they met sabo?? and that may have some repercussion in the future if the strawhats met sabo has one of the RA

Ero-Sanji
June 23, 2010, 09:32 AM
Yes, the kids training are Kuina and Zoro but that doesn't count Sabo out since the kid that is being treated by the RA might be him.

Now I'm more interested in why he showed them at all. Was it to make us understand that the village they rested on was that of Shimotsuki village, or what?

THM Nindo
June 23, 2010, 09:37 AM
Theory:
Kuina fell from the stairs, Dragon saved her, but she asked for him to fake her death.

And so he did... >.>

Far fetched, but I never accepted Kuina's death, and this way it could be possible...

I kinda thought about it for a second, until I remembered that we saw her grave (which is... in a shonen, the way of confirming someone's death).

I agree with you though... I never accepted her death neither...
At least, she kinda still live through Tashigi since they are so much alike and both have interest in Zoro...
[hr]

Yes, the kids training are Kuina and Zoro but that doesn't count Sabo out since the kid that is being treated by the RA might be him.

Now I'm more interested in why he showed them at all. Was it to make us understand that the village they rested on was that of Shimotsuki village, or what?

Agree with you on that.
I have big hope for Sabo to be alive! :tem

TheBlackLotus
June 23, 2010, 09:46 AM
Can't wait for the manga to come out.

Wow it is back to the present, and luffy is regretting... what is the pirate king?

He has the most freedom in the sea, remember that luffy :D

The translation makes the wording a bit confusing, but i think he's trying to say "How can I think of being the pirate king when i can't even save the people I care about?" in luffy's mind someone who's on top of the world like that should be strong enough to stop his friend's from dieing before his eyes like that. Even roger destroyed countries because someone spoke ill of a crew member he had, and we've seen what Whitebeard went through for his nakama. The reality of Luffy's dream is finally hitting him and he'll have to get stronger.

Very likely no training arc but that he'll work on getting stronger, which is when oda will take the time to say what's been going on in the world in the meantime. Assuming the timeskip theory in that Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old was this, perhaps he'll even say "since that day X time has passed" and then reintroduce the story with the crew back together and ready to set sail.

Sabo probably didn't show up if he's alive and in the RA for that reason. That and if he's like Luffy when luffy found out, he probably figures Ace is strong enough to get out of this one. Unless Oda makes this fact obvious soon though we probably will not find out this detail to the story, and if Sabo is alive with the RA, he kept this detail less obvious for a reason so we'd see him much further down if that's really what happened.

Schabrak
June 23, 2010, 10:07 AM
I hate Oda for teasing us with a injured kid.:) But it only would make sense if it was Sabo, as those two wouldn't be able to train, if they were hurt as dramatic as it had sound/looked in the buuble.
And finally Luffys past was explained, including Ace backstory and the revelation of both Dadan and the misterious third brother.

I wish to see some more of Boa helping Luffy overcome his psychical and physical problems.

Off-topic/Convo: I still don't see why Sabo not appearing at the war has to be discussed? Yes they were like brothers and swore to become captains of their own crew. [Seems like Ace lost to them, as he had no intention to be one after joining Whitebeard and finding a father figure in him.] But his new gigantic family and the boy to whom he both like a brother and father came to his rescue, that should have been enough.

zerocooldx
June 23, 2010, 11:12 AM
It certainly would be interesting if Zoro did at least see Sabo. But Oda is doing a great job of adding cliff hangers around Sabo.

Josl
June 23, 2010, 11:30 AM
Well... if Oda manages to break away from his scheme to kill off characters he introduced in flashbacks and rescues Sabot after all by making Ace's death almost meaningless, he'll probably be able to create some superior training arc which easily pales those of both Naruto and Bleach.


Could you please explain to me why the well being of sabo makes Ace's death almost meaningless?

deffkryz
June 23, 2010, 12:05 PM
Could you please explain to me why the well being of sabo makes Ace's death almost meaningless?
Why did Sabo stay away? What reason could he have had not to come a sworn brother? Ace was a more or less well introduced character, much more important to Luffy than Sabo - it would be a total waste of Ace and a total waste of everything Luffy went through since he hit Charlos if the less interesting Sabo survived, hid somewhere and pops up fully-grown with a big scar saying "Hi Luffy, here I am. Sorry for being late".

Additionally, Ace's death already pales in comparison with that of Whitebeard.

And yeah I know that Igaram survived that bomb back in Whiskey Peak...

Ero-Sanji
June 23, 2010, 12:18 PM
And yeah I know that Igaram survived that bomb back in Whiskey Peak...

Do not forget pell:p

undertoe
June 23, 2010, 12:20 PM
I will always be mad that Pell survived. Always.

Perhaps Zoro's presence is to slowly show how all SHs have had some connection to the RA at some point...? This makes Luffy, Zoro, and Robin now...

Btw, Mangastream is still putting up new scanlations, right?

Lutzu
June 23, 2010, 12:23 PM
Why did Sabo stay away? What reason could he have had not to come a sworn brother? Ace was a more or less well introduced character, much more important to Luffy than Sabo - it would be a total waste of Ace and a total waste of everything Luffy went through since he hit Charlos if the less interesting Sabo survived, hid somewhere and pops up fully-grown with a big scar saying "Hi Luffy, here I am. Sorry for being late".

Additionally, Ace's death already pales in comparison with that of Whitebeard.

And yeah I know that Igaram survived that bomb back in Whiskey Peak...

its just you,this flashback wasn't to give us a dramatic death, i don't see why Oda show us that in the night when Sabo was hit, Ivankov and RA waited for him and he returned with a injured kid,it's so obvious that Sabo is alive and that is why he showed in the first place Dragon in this flashback.

Lyn685
June 23, 2010, 12:25 PM
If Sabo survived, there could be reasons why he did not come to Aces rescue.
He could´ve had amnesia and so forgot about his brothers, or he has a certain opinion about pirates, that says that every pirate has to be aware of the risk, that being a pirate brings, and has to be responsible for themselfes, not to rely on others, or he is a realist (unlike Ruffy) and knows very damn well, that there is no way to free Ace out of the grasp of the marines full-blown might, and that he alone can´t make any difference in the outcome of the war.

undertoe
June 23, 2010, 12:27 PM
I'd say it's more likely that Sabo wouldn't have popped up because he was embroiled in some RA duties that bear much more significance than saving Ace. Amnesia or an attitude change don't seem like a direction Oda would go...

Freid
June 23, 2010, 12:27 PM
Cause if your dad is the leader of a Revolutionary Army, and the biggest battle against the Marines, the Government's dogs is happening, he should come and help against it.

Now, the time probably wasn't the best, or the RA new of something that the Government would use in case they appeared.

.

do you honestly think luffy would even be thinking about that. can you imagine luffy saying to his dad 'why didnt you come and save ace who does not have any relation with you whatsoeva because you are the leader of the revolutionists'..it does not work like that. just because ace's execution was a good opportunity for dragon to attack does not mean he had to take it. he obviously has his own plans. so why would he go against them to save a kid he has no relation with. get real. luffy would not be pissed at dragon. he probably does not even fully understand what the revolutionists do for him to complain at dragon for not attacking the marines...its not like dragon is the leader of a no name organization. he is the most wanted man in the world. so for him to come out of the shadows and into the hands of the marines would take something more than ace being executed which again he does not know or have any relation with.. yes, him being there would most likely have made a difference in the outcome, but so would shanks being there. and shanks actually knows ace.. and before you say shanks was stopped by kaidou, i am sure that shanks had no intention in joining the battle with wb. but is luffy going to be pissed at shanks aswel??.....this is largely out of topic but nevertheless i said my piece

sarutobi_sensei
June 23, 2010, 12:31 PM
Wait wait, what? Those kids training are Zoro and Kuina? The Fuck!

And the injured kid, might it be Kuina? WOWOWOWOWOWOW big development here.

Freid
June 23, 2010, 12:39 PM
Wait wait, what? Those kids training are Zoro and Kuina? The Fuck!

And the injured kid, might it be Kuina? WOWOWOWOWOWOW big development here.

actually nobody has said that yet. it could be kuina... although that wouldnt improve the story at all for me atleast. most people already think she is tashigi... probably sabo

undertoe
June 23, 2010, 12:46 PM
actually nobody has said that yet. it could be kuina... although that wouldnt improve the story at all for me atleast. most people already think she is tashigi... probably sabo

More like a small minority thinks she MIGHT be Tashigi. Definitely not most.

Necron
June 23, 2010, 01:06 PM
time for the straw hat pirates to appear and grab luffy by the balls
Ok , his brother died and he couldn't beat the whole marine hq on his own , but is that a reason to give up ?
well i doubt whitebeard could have taken on the hq at an age around 20, so dont sweat it luffy , you will get your revenge

Lord Rayleigh
June 23, 2010, 01:43 PM
That Kuina is the person that Dragon asked to be treated is the worst theory I've heard for a while.

Come on, the Dojo's people could not have deceived themselves about Kuina's death since they found her body downstairs. And Kuina's body was never transported to Dragon's whereabouts but burried. Not to say that Zoro and Kuina are seen training when Dragon found someone who was injured ...

Arkadi
June 23, 2010, 01:43 PM
luffy is 17 not 20 x d LUFFY WOULDVE DONE IT if he was 20 x d
luffy destroyed Enis LObby (actually the sheeps) but he is able to singlehandly destroy it all

Schabrak
June 23, 2010, 01:55 PM
Why did Sabo stay away? What reason could he have had not to come a sworn brother? Ace was a more or less well introduced character, much more important to Luffy than Sabo - it would be a total waste of Ace and a total waste of everything Luffy went through since he hit Charlos if the less interesting Sabo survived, hid somewhere and pops up fully-grown with a big scar saying "Hi Luffy, here I am. Sorry for being late".

Additionally, Ace's death already pales in comparison with that of Whitebeard.

And yeah I know that Igaram survived that bomb back in Whiskey Peak...
Ace did die for the the plot, not for you. He has his purpose, to show Luffy that he can't always achieve what he aims for, that he is still to unexperienced. His dream to be accepted and loved by his family and friends was fulfilled, so he had no further purpose, he never wanted to be PK, like WB aimed for him to be one day. Oda did introduce the Supernova for that reason. It would be to unfair and idiotic, if half of the NW pirates were in a NAP[non aggression pact] with Luffy.

As already written, but overlooked or ignored-_- by you, I mentioned, that there was enough man power to free him, but special circumstances didn't allow that to happen. His family came, so why would a Sabo[if he actually lives and is a member of the RA], who's fully integrated into the RA, expose himself to the world, if his duties are overruling any kind of feeling in his position?
E.g.: He could have been on a mission to take over a kindgom and free thousand if not hundreds of thousand people. Do you free a childhood friend of risk your mission?

undertoe
June 23, 2010, 02:08 PM
I've learned from this topic that we'll still be getting "Ace is alive" theories until the end of the series... Kuina is dead and buried.

Sabo, on the other hand, has a good chance at living. His death was about as certain as Bruce Wayne's at the end of Batman RIP: died in an explosion with no body recovered, presumed dead. And Bruce Wayne definitely survived that.

masubiladin
June 23, 2010, 02:14 PM
wow wow you guys. Did u guys see the part on the spoiler that Luffy sound like he is gonna give up his dream?

k-dom
June 23, 2010, 03:00 PM
So Sabo is probably alive. I must confessed, I'm a bit disapointed with this turn of event. I can only imagine Oda will give him a big role in the future, in particular wrt the noble-tenryubito issue which will be one of the main plot of the story. Simply being Ace replacement would be so lame.
On the contrary, Luffy about to give up is dream is pretty anticlimatic. I wonder what will give him to power to have faith again in himself.

deprince69
June 23, 2010, 03:00 PM
time for the straw hat pirates to appear and grab luffy by the balls
Ok , his brother died and he couldn't beat the whole marine hq on his own , but is that a reason to give up ?
well i doubt whitebeard could have taken on the hq at an age around 20, so dont sweat it luffy , you will get your revenge

don't forget failure at the impel dawn, he has been failing a lot lately but that all means he is also improving cuz he is not giving up... and since shanks doesn't think of him as a great pirate means he is gonna be doing Kamehameha x 10 really soon

Ex-Shadow
June 23, 2010, 03:03 PM
While I'm sure you guys who already look at the spoiler has many theories and expectations, I suggest we wait patiently and wait for this chapter scanlation, read it, and discuss it properly in the usual and more appropriate place. BTW, I can't see any chance of Kuina being alive...

This is the problem I'm getting from OP. Oda always make such a great storyline. Always make me can wait no longer to read the next chapter...

DARK
June 23, 2010, 03:04 PM
wow wow you guys. Did u guys see the part on the spoiler that Luffy sound like he is gonna give up his dream?

Yes, but there is no point discussing. Luffy has reflected several times about how he is too weak to protect his friends, and that he's not worthy to be the Pirate King.
But he'll bounce back eventually.

Schabrak
June 23, 2010, 03:17 PM
I suggest we wait patiently and wait for this chapter scanlation, read it, and discuss it properly in the usual and more appropriate place.
:\ But what would the point of "Spoiler Discussions", if not to create theories and discuss about the raws and spoiler we currently have?
@DARK: Don't tell people not to discuss about things, that were stated/shown in the chapter. s.a.

And well, I will just ignore those Kuina theories. Zorro would have known if his burried friend would have woken up from the death with another name and personality.

@k-dom: Sabo is not a replacement and never was. He has his own personality, his own life and his own beliefs and dreams. Being a brothers doesn't make them the same. Nobody but unnamed marine soldiers and pirates are replacable. XD

deffkryz
June 23, 2010, 03:22 PM
Something about the script that made me curious...



Verification:Confirmed
Source: http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=28166
Credits: Aohige (as always)
Ace: Well you know, I'm Luffy's big brother and all. I should go meet up and thank Redhaired captain for taking care of Luffy.
Makino: Ooooh really? *grins*
Ace: WHAT!? You got something to say!?
Makino: Hee hee, sorry. Well, first you have to...

Oda-sensei... What are you up to here? Makino knows a way to actually make contact with Shanks? :blink


Ace did die for the the plot, not for you.
Really?! Oh... My.. F*cking... God... Thank you SO MUCH... :sarc As it seems, you didn't understand what I meant. Oda has characters that only fulfill some purpose? Well then Sabo's purpose is also done since he inherited Ace with the wish to protect their little brother... Thank you for adding another point on the "Sabo is dead" list.

BTW, if Oda created the story just for me, wouldn't you think Ace would still be well and alive then? No, that would be too logical, wouldn't it?


Do not forget pell:p
Pell is a DF user - Igaram ain't. Igaram's survival outpwns that of Pell. :p

kill0u
June 23, 2010, 03:37 PM
Oda-sensei... What are you up to here? Makino knows a way to actually make contact with Shanks? :blink

I think it's just that she knew Shanks was already a yonkou (or at least a great pirate in grand line)

Razh
June 23, 2010, 03:39 PM
actually nobody has said that yet. it could be kuina... although that wouldnt improve the story at all for me atleast. most people already think she is tashigi... probably sabo

Yeah, nobody has said that yet. Oh wait...

Once again, the kid practicing with the sword using both hands is Kuina in front of the dojo and the kid lifting a rock is Zoro. We know for a fact that she always trained in dojo and was more of a finesse fighter while Zoro trained to increase his strength and stamina so he can wield two swords at once. Plus the first silhouette has longer hair, like Kuina.
As for the purpose, there isn't much. It's just cameos.

Also, about Sabo not helping Ace thing. The fuck? Ace's execution was announced one week before the event. He'd have to be pretty close to Marineford to be able to help. If he was in any of the Blues, there's no chance in hell he'd be able to make it. People who were a lot closer barely made it. I can only imagine how crazy the coating engineers in New World have been working on Whitebeard's fleet.

If Sabo is alive, chances are, he was either in East Blue, attacking that bridge, or with Dragon, somewhere in South Blue.

undertoe
June 23, 2010, 03:43 PM
Razh -- He wasn't referring to Kuina appearing in the background with Zoro; he was referring to the weak theory that the injured child in Dragon's care was Kuina.

Sunburn74
June 23, 2010, 03:45 PM
Man I'm just glad the flashback is over. I could barely read one page of that stuff without vomiting. Don't get me wrong; I like One Piece (best manga around in my opinon). I just don't see what that 5 week flashback actually brought to the table. We already knew Ace and Luffy were close. Showing us all that doesn't strengthen that notion anymore. It doesn't make us all say "oh thats why luffy lost it when Ace died". We'd expect it him to take that sort of loss very hard seeing as he's taken so many other losses extremely hard (ie zoro almost being killed, the team being split up, etc). Basically the writer took way too long to explain something that didn't need to be explained. Golly. 5weeks. Thats literally 10 percent of the entire years manga.

damane08
June 23, 2010, 03:45 PM
Yeah, nobody has said that yet. Oh wait...


Also, about Sabo not helping Ace thing. The fuck? Ace's execution was announced one week before the event. He'd have to be pretty close to Marineford to be able to help. If he was in any of the Blues, there's no chance in hell he'd be able to make it. People who were a lot closer barely made it. I can only imagine how crazy the coating engineers in New World have been working on Whitebeard's fleet.

If Sabo is alive, chances are, he was either in East Blue, attacking that bridge, or with Dragon, somewhere in South Blue.


EXACTLY!! people have been going on about if Sabo was alive why didn't he come help them save Ace, not even thinking that he could be so far away that he just couldn't make it (assuming he is alive that is)

Razh
June 23, 2010, 03:50 PM
Razh -- He wasn't referring to Kuina appearing in the background with Zoro; he was referring to the weak theory that the injured child in Dragon's care was Kuina.

You're right. It is a weak theory. I can't imagine why Dragon would carry Kuina with him, especially since she was shown training at the same time.

Blanka
June 23, 2010, 03:59 PM
Kushina and Tashigi are different people. They buried Kushina. Now there are many instances of similar spirit/look of someone. The closest i will come would be a sister that grew up somewhere else.


As for Sabo, the 'death' reminds me of Pell. No actual body. Almost all of the deaths are flashbacks of final moments or on death bed.

His only real benefit long-term would be someone like Coby. He can change the nobility mindset from the inside if he ever returned to Goa. Vivi and Dalton already are different rulers.

Zojo
June 23, 2010, 04:00 PM
I don't think it says anywhere that there was a person with Dragon. Ivankov scolded Dragon for being late, he apologized, then Ivankov withdrew because he saw Dragon injured (possibly due to whatever he was doing that made him late).

Just saying, that could easily be the situation.

Razh
June 23, 2010, 04:07 PM
Kushina and Tashigi are different people. They buried Kushina. Now there are many instances of similar spirit/look of someone. The closest i will come would be a sister that grew up somewhere else.

Yeah, they aren't even in the same manga. ;)

DLord.Van.Buuren
June 23, 2010, 04:11 PM
Kushina and Tashigi are different people. They buried Kushina. Now there are many instances of similar spirit/look of someone. The closest i will come would be a sister that grew up somewhere else.
As for Sabo, the 'death' reminds me of Pell. No actual body. Almost all of the deaths are flashbacks of final moments or on death bed.
.

i think what razh is trying to say is that you meant to refer to kuina , your thought is very possible actually , it could make an interesting development .

k-dom
June 23, 2010, 04:11 PM
@k-dom: Sabo is not a replacement and never was. He has his own personality, his own life and his own beliefs and dreams. Being a brothers doesn't make them the same. Nobody but unnamed marine soldiers and pirates are replacable. XD

By replacement I meant the big brother who will take care of luffy If Sabo did not die I expect it will bring something else in the plot that just him and Luffy being brothers with a happy reunion. And I expect it to be the fact that Sabo is a noble and maybe the fall of the tenryubito and the other arrogant blood casts.

Razh
June 23, 2010, 04:14 PM
I don't think it says anywhere that there was a person with Dragon. Ivankov scolded Dragon for being late, he apologized, then Ivankov withdrew because he saw Dragon injured (possibly due to whatever he was doing that made him late).

Just saying, that could easily be the situation.

Nope, because it seems that Dragon is holding someone under his right arm and it's emitting some sounds. You can see kanji on the picture. Plus, there is a zoom on Dragon's face and there are no fatigue signs whatsoever. No smudges, no sweat, no bruises, nothing.

Oda didn't put Dragon into that page just to show Kuina and Zoro cameos and the fact that Dragon is hungry. Sure, there is a small doubt that it's not Sabo that Dragon is holding, but we should all know better. It's only a matter of time now before Sabo appears in the current story.

Anyway, we should all have learned by now the difference between a real death and pseudo-death in One Piece, especially when it comes to important characters. The hat floating on the surface means absolutely nothing, it's a piece of someone's attire, the first thing to fall off of someone.

On the other hand, we have Dragon who we've seen 2 times by now, walking through a town solo, without any friends/mates/nakamas.
If I'd have to guess, I'd say he stayed behind to catch a glimpse of Tenryuubito, it's his prime enemy after all, and then he saw what happened to Sabo, might have even recognized him. He used his ability to save him, then flew towards the meeting place.

Freid
June 23, 2010, 04:23 PM
Yeah, nobody has said that yet. Oh wait...


Once again, the kid practicing with the sword using both hands is Kuina in front of the dojo and the kid lifting a rock is Zoro. We know for a fact that she always trained in dojo and was more of a finesse fighter while Zoro trained to increase his strength and stamina so he can wield two swords at once. Plus the first silhouette has longer hair, like Kuina.
As for the purpose, there isn't much. It's just cameos.



¬_¬ you as with other people totally misinterpreted my post. i was refering to the theory that the person injured was kuina and not what you said.

Razh
June 23, 2010, 04:35 PM
¬_¬ you as with other people totally misinterpreted my post. i was refering to the theory that the person injured was kuina and not what you said.

Yeah, sorry about that, I was reading too fast.

Malefiicus
June 23, 2010, 05:03 PM
Man I'm just glad the flashback is over. I could barely read one page of that stuff without vomiting. Don't get me wrong; I like One Piece (best manga around in my opinon). I just don't see what that 5 week flashback actually brought to the table. We already knew Ace and Luffy were close. Showing us all that doesn't strengthen that notion anymore. It doesn't make us all say "oh thats why luffy lost it when Ace died". We'd expect it him to take that sort of loss very hard seeing as he's taken so many other losses extremely hard (ie zoro almost being killed, the team being split up, etc). Basically the writer took way too long to explain something that didn't need to be explained. Golly. 5weeks. Thats literally 10 percent of the entire years manga.

You're reading a manga. You shouldn't think "These chapters are garbage and completely pointless." You should think "What part of these chapters can be used in the future, and what tone/idea are these chapters trying to convey."

So, clearly Sabo being alive is a very likely reason for these chapters, that way Sabo can come into the story with himself half explained. Next, the theme that the story has taken recently is one that's pitted the nobles as evil people. This just goes to show that it's not just some nobles, it's all nobles, and they've been this way for a long time. Lastly, a little last hurrah for ace happened, and we got to see a bit more of Dadan, and perhaps the Bluejam pirates will appear in the future.

I might be missing some stuff, but this little flashback is likely going to serve as an informal round for some chapters to come in the future.

Arkadi
June 23, 2010, 05:10 PM
i think dragon controlls water, and thus the weather.

Bloodwinter
June 23, 2010, 05:32 PM
i think dragon controlls water, and thus the weather.

Not really quite on topic, but if he were to have any fruit I would assume it to be either the Mizu-Mizu no Mi or the Kaze-Kaze no Mi, it's really a toss-up considering what we've seen. Both are possible.

sarutobi_sensei
June 23, 2010, 05:34 PM
Well of Kuina was alive, that would suck. It would be the same as Beremel (Nami's adoptive mom), or everyone else that was close to the SH pirates is alive. They'd lose their current motivation to continue.

Luffy hadn't lost anyone yet. Right now, he has. Sure it's bad that he has lost his brother, but something was bound to happen. If it wasn't Ace it would've been Garp, but I think the old man will still do something.

Lets face it,
Zoro lost Kuina
Nami her "mom"
Sanji his other friends and Zeff's leg
Ussopp his mother
Chopper his "dad"
Franky his "dad"
Robin her mom and frieds
Brook his entire crew.

Luffy hadn't lost anyone yet. If he quits now, he'll be nothing else but a coward.
[hr]
And that is what someone needs to tell him: on these seas, people die. He is not the only one to have lost a loved one. And if he quits, then he'll be killing the other person again for not doing what said person wanted him to do, to live.

Zoro needs to tell him that, if you don't want to continue, you are nothing more than a coward. Not a weak coward, a simple coward.

johnnyb7
June 23, 2010, 05:59 PM
Next chapter Luffy is gonna start training to control his haki, we'll see the start of it, possibly a relationship between him and Boa Hancock start, and then it'll be a time skip to him showing up to his crew back on Shabondy Park in the chapter after that.

Duc :D
June 23, 2010, 05:59 PM
Well of Kuina was alive, that would suck. It would be the same as Beremel (Nami's adoptive mom), or everyone else that was close to the SH pirates is alive. They'd lose their current motivation to continue.

Luffy hadn't lost anyone yet. Right now, he has. Sure it's bad that he has lost his brother, but something was bound to happen. If it wasn't Ace it would've been Garp, but I think the old man will still do something.

Lets face it,
Zoro lost Kuina
Nami her "mom"
Sanji his other friends and Zeff's leg
Ussopp his mother
Chopper his "dad"
Franky his "dad"
Robin her mom and frieds
Brook his entire crew.

Luffy hadn't lost anyone yet. If he quits now, he'll be nothing else but a coward.
<hr noshade size="1">
And that is what someone needs to tell him: on these seas, people die. He is not the only one to have lost a loved one. And if he quits, then he'll be killing the other person again for not doing what said person wanted him to do, to live.

Zoro needs to tell him that, if you don't want to continue, you are nothing more than a coward. Not a weak coward, a simple coward.

Sabo?

even though he may be still alive lUffy thinks his brother died, if sabo turns out to be alive Ace has taken the place of the lost.important operson.

damane08
June 23, 2010, 06:07 PM
Chapter is out people, enjoy! (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/1)

AllezFlex
June 23, 2010, 06:17 PM
Does anyone has any idea what the cover is showing. The monkey is showing a magic trick with a bloody face. But more than that i have no clue what oda is trying to show there.

Loved the chapter btw, Luffy's conclusion about his present state couldnt be truer.

Bloodwinter
June 23, 2010, 06:19 PM
"I'm not going to die." Oh the dramatic irony.

beastboy
June 23, 2010, 06:22 PM
FFFFFFFFFFF last page got me... T_T
And that small conversation with Ace gave as a hint of what luffy is going to do next, if he is weak, he is gonna get stronger *_*

BTW loved Dominic+Sadi-chan on the cover *.*

zerocooldx
June 23, 2010, 06:33 PM
I think this is the first time that Luffy has really had to a acknowledge what the title of Pirate King truly means. It certainly isn't something that the faint of heart should be speaking. Reality is a bitch.

ShinobiWrath
June 23, 2010, 06:40 PM
Luffy's an emotional wreck now, the guy's rationality will probably go through the window. He'll blame himself for not being strong enough to defend Ace or his crew(even though they're doing okay).

This may be out of the ordinary for him but Luffy will ask Hancock to teach him to properly utilize haki. I love how Oda set this little flashback up to be turning point in the main character's development.

sarutobi_sensei
June 23, 2010, 06:48 PM
Sabo?

even though he may be still alive lUffy thinks his brother died, if sabo turns out to be alive Ace has taken the place of the lost.important operson.

Sabo doesn't count anywhere near Ace. Ace lived with Luffy for 7 years. Sabo, for some months.

Sure he might've liked him like a brother, but still, Ace was the true brother. At least for me.

-------------

So they were in Zoro's homeland xD lol.

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/10 that page made me lol XD

And so did this: http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/15

And this: http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/17

And this: http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/20 made me cry.

omegakai
June 23, 2010, 06:50 PM
here is the more the likely truth sabo is alive but is disfigured from the blast so he may look abit different than he did. For those saying the flash back was pointless its not it was show that luffy may have lost someone before and he has been trying to get stronger so that he would never have to see people he care about die and so with loss of ace he is now on a break and reliving this event might be his way of recovery and make him see that he still along way from be strong enough to protect what cares about.

Poneglyph420
June 23, 2010, 06:52 PM
Does anyone has any idea what the cover is showing. The monkey is showing a magic trick with a bloody face. But more than that i have no clue what oda is trying to show there.

Loved the chapter btw, Luffy's conclusion about his present state couldnt be truer.

The cover is Sadie Chan and Domino at the Marine version of McDonalds it seems. A random and much appreciated new cover IMO.

Reading the chapter in full, with nice big chunky images.. Wow!
Sure seems like Oda has left the door open for speculation here..

I'm dying to see what's up with Dragon, I'm still not sure who he just saved.. since it seems like he was saving someone from another isalnd than the one Luffy and Ace were raised on. But sure looked like Zoro and Kuina there....

(not getting saved but there that is..)

SO many questions..

Overall great ending chapter to the flashback..

Really excited to see Luffy face facts and deal with the struggle ahead.

AllezFlex
June 23, 2010, 06:58 PM
Probably dragon is treating the burn victims of trash mountain at the dojo where zoro and kuina are training.
Just a fun little cameo to ease our burden of not seeing the crew for so long.

lankus
June 23, 2010, 06:58 PM
Normally I'm all for characters dying to better the story, but sometimes bringing back a character that you thought was dead is also a good thing. Oda has shown us that most important deaths only happen in flashbacks until somewhat recently, so maybe it's now time for him to show us that people we think to have died in the (very distant) past may have actually lived.

I'm all for him going with an equal exchange to his normal writing methods.

ScorpionGR
June 23, 2010, 06:58 PM
hehe lol when garp fighting with luffy and ace

Razh
June 23, 2010, 06:59 PM
Does anyone has any idea what the cover is showing. The monkey is showing a magic trick with a bloody face. But more than that i have no clue what oda is trying to show there.

I think he just ate a burger or something. His left hand is messy as well. Heck, I can do that trick too. :p

A nice chapter. Funny how Dadan acts all cold and indifferent while sulking in the corner and getting drunk, lmao.

Love how Garp drops by from time to time, just to kick the shit outa them.

AllezFlex
June 23, 2010, 07:24 PM
I think he just ate a burger or something. His left hand is messy as well. Heck, I can do that trick too. :p

Ah indeed, he did the famous hamburger disappearing trick. Took me a while to notice. Bad luck for him our favorite prison guards arent paying attention.

mr.danly
June 23, 2010, 07:24 PM
Loved the little Zoro cameo in this chapter. And it seems Sabo is still alive as part of Dragon's army, as there's someone one being treated on his ship for "horrible wounds" on the night of the tenryuubito's arrival. Coincidence? I think not. And as somebody else said, Oda wouldn't bring up a random character and just kill him off after like 5 chapters. I think Sabo will have some role to play in the near future.

THM Nindo
June 23, 2010, 07:25 PM
I still don't understand the little flashback in the flashback, showing Dragon...
So, that's before the event of Goa Kingdom or after?

And he's on the island of Zoro?
And who's injured?

This is really confusing...

mr.danly
June 23, 2010, 07:33 PM
I still don't understand the little flashback in the flashback, showing Dragon...
So, that's before the event of Goa Kingdom or after?

And he's on the island of Zoro?
And who's injured?

This is really confusing...

the flashback is the night that the celestial dragons arrived. Sabo was supposedly "killed" during the daytime: http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/73205842/6

And that very same night, Dragon was in Zoro's town, picking up supplies, and somebody was being treated for terrible wounds. So my interpretation of that little flashback was that it was supposed to be a hint from Oda that Sabo is still alive on Dragon's ship.

Lutzu
June 23, 2010, 07:33 PM
I still don't understand the little flashback in the flashback, showing Dragon...
So, that's before the event of Goa Kingdom or after?

And he's on the island of Zoro?
And who's injured?

This is really confusing...

the narrator says"Going back in time a bit to the night when the Tentryuubito arrived"it points when happened Sabo incident and Ivankov says to Dragon that he is late and then he is apologising and the crew see the injured person that Dragon brought with him and its obvious that the person is Sabo

Bloodwinter
June 23, 2010, 07:37 PM
I'm sure Moria and Crocodile's words are echoing through his mind right now. Both of them had become Shichibukai and changed their philosophies on life entirely because of a defeat in the New World / death of their crews. They gave their souls to the government and gave up on being a true pirate because they all had this moment themselves, where they realize the daunting reality that The Pirate King is a title of great implications. Whether Luffy comes out of this with his values in tact or slowly loses himself to The New Age is yet to be seen. I'm rooting for the former however, his determination is what sets him apart from the rest of those who had given up on their dreams.

The question remains: "Is there room for dreamers in the coming age?"

Razh
June 23, 2010, 07:41 PM
I still don't understand the little flashback in the flashback, showing Dragon...
So, that's before the event of Goa Kingdom or after?

And he's on the island of Zoro?
And who's injured?

This is really confusing...

It's the same day when Sabo's ship was sunk, only evening.

It seems that Dragon brought someone with him on the ship. Someone with terrible wounds. How do I know it's not Dragon himself that is wounded? Someone who has terrible wounds doesn't have a face clear as a bell. Also, he's still wearing his cape and a hood, it would be hard to see terrible wounds. Also, it would have to be someone pretty strong and I fail to see the significance of showing Dragon returning from an off panel fight that will never be explained.
So yeah, I think he rescued the poor kid from death and brought him to his ship to treat.

I guess he could easily be healed by Ivankov with hormones.

Speaking of which, I find Ivankov being on the same island as Zoro and Kuina and odd coincidence. It seems about the time when Kuina "died". That "fell from the stairs" story never held water for me. Someone as good as she was doesn't just fall of the stairs and die.
Ok, I'm just gonna stop beating around the bush and say it. I think Ivankov had something to do with Kuina's disappearance. Maybe they talked and she expressed either her desire to become a boy or her desire to forget about swordsmanship. Assuming it's the latter, he could have injected hormones that made her lose her memory. Maybe her father approved because he wanted to see his daughter happy, so they tricked Zoro. She moved away somewhere and despite losing her memory, her love for swords somehow resurfaced.

In short, that would explain why she looks like Kuina and is a swordsman, but doesn't remember Zoro. Well, so much for that. You heard it here first guys. ;)

EDIT: I checked chapter 5 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/5/10/) again, just to make sure. It could be possible, but the moon is different in the last chapter. In Zoro's flashback, the moon was full in Kuina's last night. Still, something isn't right there, never was.

Minato-sama
June 23, 2010, 07:48 PM
So Sabo is ALIVE!! I wouldn't be surprise if he suffer from amnesia, forgotten his dream and brothers and decided to join the revolution army. Why else he did not contact luffy and ace that he ok. Plus he left really early to become a pirate he should already have become wanted or infamous a sign to show luffy and ace that he is ok. Ace and Luffy rose to fame really quickly.

c0nflikt
June 23, 2010, 07:56 PM
I love the last page, Bitter Reality!

Zeltrax
June 23, 2010, 08:01 PM
Ouch, poor luffy.
But he'll be fine, he's luffy after all.
Oh and if he's gonna get stronger...
is that going to be the first training arc in one piece?

Naruffy
June 23, 2010, 08:13 PM
Well, Luffy just got a reality check. I have a feeling him learning about Haki from Hancock is more likely, It just seems like a waste for him to go back to the island and not learn anything. Currently, none of the marines know whether or not he's alive and it's the perfect time for him to train and go back to Shabony Archipeligo having learn't something about Haki.

Bloodwinter
June 23, 2010, 08:16 PM
Ouch, poor luffy.
But he'll be fine, he's luffy after all.
Oh and if he's gonna get stronger...
is that going to be the first training arc in one piece?

I think true to Oda's style, there won't be. I think it will be alluded to and then happen off-screen. He has dear friends with him and future rivals who believed in his strength enough to save him so that they may compete in the New World. I don't think they'll let him slip off his course, he'll probably come back with renewed vigor and be instead of blindly confident in himself, rightfully confident in himself as he works on his strength. They will then probably make their way back to Saboady Archipelago and go through everything reunion-wise as well as all their preparations for the New World. The first test of their strength I think will happen early-on in the New World and it will make it very obvious just how much each of them progressed. With their new power revealed, I think they will then set off and the story will progress into the first New World arc.

poweredpark
June 23, 2010, 08:43 PM
Personally I found that the flashback was a nice addition. I just finished it and started back at issue 2 which is a very smooth transition.
But I foresee a training arc and shifting to the other crew members maybe. While the other members had probably had their reality check, Luffy is the one that really needed it.

THM Nindo
June 23, 2010, 08:50 PM
So, Sabo is alive!! :tem
Nice!!

And they didn't show Kuina and Zoro for nothing...
Maybe Kuina really lived after all...

I always thought it was weird that she died like she did....
It might be false hope, but I really hope she's alive...

hy4k
June 23, 2010, 09:09 PM
zoro and kuina were fanservice

Sabo the revolutionary is great news, as is Luffy's acknowledgement of weakness

to become pirate king he has to be stronger than everyone else. As it stands he is not even on the same level as the stronger shichibukai/admirals/yonkou and yonkou's crewmates

Super Angillis
June 23, 2010, 09:16 PM
I think that your getting the wrong signifigance if you think the revolutionaries bieng there means Kuina's alive. Didn't someone say they got supplies from the sensei? I've been a bit suspicious of Kuina's father for a while. He seems to be a little to skilled for someone hanging out on a island in the east blue.

watanazn
June 23, 2010, 09:21 PM
Here's hoping Boa teaches Luffy how to use Haki and him picking up some trade secrets from the merman how not to sink like a hammer

ScorpionGR
June 23, 2010, 09:23 PM
finally the flashback is over... the adventure is continuing with luffy being more mellow from now ... The flashback was nothing special just a dramatic story like the others flashbacks from the crews with a little bit interesting because of luffy being a main protagonist anyway now we gonna see luffy fighting with enemies with very much agressive and he is now realising what is mean to be a pirate king im sure after this event with sabo and ace luffy will never let anything happening to the crew ... after the reunion .. also luffy doesn't know zoro sacrifice himself at thriller park for saving luffy from kuma ... Now we gonna see a training arc.. with luffy and the others strawhats to get more more more stronger before leaving to a new world

bittman
June 23, 2010, 09:26 PM
It's the same day when Sabo's ship was sunk, only evening.

It seems that Dragon brought someone with him on the ship. Someone with terrible wounds. How do I know it's not Dragon himself that is wounded? Someone who has terrible wounds doesn't have a face clear as a bell. Also, he's still wearing his cape and a hood, it would be hard to see terrible wounds. Also, it would have to be someone pretty strong and I fail to see the significance of showing Dragon returning from an off panel fight that will never be explained.
So yeah, I think he rescued the poor kid from death and brought him to his ship to treat.

I guess he could easily be healed by Ivankov with hormones.

Speaking of which, I find Ivankov being on the same island as Zoro and Kuina and odd coincidence. It seems about the time when Kuina "died". That "fell from the stairs" story never held water for me. Someone as good as she was doesn't just fall of the stairs and die.
Ok, I'm just gonna stop beating around the bush and say it. I think Ivankov had something to do with Kuina's disappearance. Maybe they talked and she expressed either her desire to become a boy or her desire to forget about swordsmanship. Assuming it's the latter, he could have injected hormones that made her lose her memory. Maybe her father approved because he wanted to see his daughter happy, so they tricked Zoro. She moved away somewhere and despite losing her memory, her love for swords somehow resurfaced.

In short, that would explain why she looks like Kuina and is a swordsman, but doesn't remember Zoro. Well, so much for that. You heard it here first guys. ;)

EDIT: I checked chapter 5 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/5/10/) again, just to make sure. It could be possible, but the moon is different in the last chapter. In Zoro's flashback, the moon was full in Kuina's last night. Still, something isn't right there, never was.

You have two excellent theories here, so here's my interpretation:

1) Quite possibly, I can translate the chapter to have the intention that Dragon brought aboard a lot of people from Trash Mountain who had been injured from the fires. It appears they were concerned about the rations (and I'm expecting medical "rations" here, not food) and thus stopped in at a port to get more.

NOTABLY (for both theories): There is nothing there to say the port with Zoro+Kuina's dojo was the same island as the Goa Kingdom. Given we were not explicitally told it was the same island, I'm assuming it is a different island.

So back on the Sabo theory: this means Sabo would have had to have floated to this dojo island faster than Dragon sailed his ship there (of course, Sabo left a good half a day or so later). It seems like too large an impossibility.

2) Kuina's disappearance: If Kuina had asked Iva to do anything, it would have honestly been for Iva to turn her into a man. It almost appeared like that was her wish since her gender was her greatest "perceived flaw", not her actual memories (doesn't make sense).

I still do think there is a Tashigi = Kuina possibility, as I always found Zoro's flashback intensely disappointing (as far as all the flashbacks go, he has the weakest, though he also had the second aside from Luffy so Oda has gained experience since then).

I honestly expect a Zoro flashback in the near future (next 100-200 chapters at the most), since to me Oda just hinted further at it with those two pages. I mean, if Sabo is indeed dead (as I cannot see how he would be "picked up" on the island), then what would have been Oda's intention of even showing us these these pages?)

sgrey
June 23, 2010, 09:30 PM
i think luffi will now train or rather they will explain to him haki and how to use it. Then we will get other crew members chapters again and then they will meet togeather. I also think they will have another crew member coming :)

sarutobi_sensei
June 23, 2010, 10:29 PM
zoro and kuina were fanservice

Sabo the revolutionary is great news, as is Luffy's acknowledgement of weakness

to become pirate king he has to be stronger than everyone else. As it stands he is not even on the same level as the stronger shichibukai/admirals/yonkou and yonkou's crewmates


How was it fanservice if some didn't even thought that Kuina was alive. Heck, seeing Zoro, that is fanservice. Seeing Kuina, that implies something else.

niblack89
June 23, 2010, 11:01 PM
I'm new to Onepeace and find it interesting. Well not new but haven't seen it in a while I have been looking at a few chapter and was wondering were is his crew?

I like how they lead to the beginning of the first chapter when he took out the giant fish that ate shanks arm. Also they never mentioned how Ace received is special fruit.

THM Nindo
June 23, 2010, 11:33 PM
You know what feels weird...

We saw the day that Luffy left (which is pretty much the day that this manga started, since he was on the same tiny boat).

That means that, at the beginning of the manga, it has been 3 years that he didn't see Ace.
Still, when he meet him, he's not like "Woah! Ace!!!!!!!!! I'm so happy to see you!!!!" or stuff like that.
He's not even surprised about his fire power (although, he might have heard about it in the newspaper).

Anyway, it does seem weird a bit, IMO.
I'm also thinking that we should learn how Ace got his power.

panasit
June 23, 2010, 11:38 PM
I think the fact that the night celestial dragon clan arrive is a significant for saying that sabo is alive.

But I love the Ivankov changing Kuina into a boy theory. But didn't we see her corpse with the white cloth cover at the funeral? I don't think the adults would have bury the wrong corpse. Anyway, if it happens I"m happy, but only if Sabo survives too.

One thing, if Kuina is alive in that way, it makes Smoke's apprentice's existence (I forgot her name at the moment) a lot more worthless (for lack of better term) and less cool.

UPDATE: Just went back and re-read volume 1. Yep, it's an open casket funeral (well, there were no casket). Unless Ivankov can grow fake corpse, Kuina's dead.

I love the emotion of this chapter. Luffy's dream is crushed. We all faced that moment. It's not a worthy goal if there is no possibility of failure. I always thought Luffy was way too arrogant prior to Water 7 arc (I really started to love One Piece when Luffy was defeated by Aokiji) Let see who will help him and how he will bounce back this time.

Dark_Stryker
June 24, 2010, 12:01 AM
Well the flashback is over and i cant wait for the next chapter. However i dont think we're going to see a training arc. It's never been done before. We'll see the occasional zoro training or ussop fixing his weapons but never has Oda written an actual chapter devoted to training. That makes me think that soon we're going to see Luffy meeting up with his crew . Once he gets there, he'll teach the rest of the straw hats about haki and how to use it in the form of a flashback where hancock explains it to him. If you think about it, it follows Oda's way of doing stuff like when luffy trained for gear 2 an d3. We never saw it but the training was still done.

chess4
June 24, 2010, 12:21 AM
Like someone said in an earlier post, Zoro's master is interesting. Maybe dragon was going to see him. Maybe he is a contact for the RA. Maybe its fan service putting zoro and kuina in the chapter but I doubt it. Oda never does things without reason. I hope we get to see zoro's master in action one day.

ceasar
June 24, 2010, 12:22 AM
I think I see where oda is going with this Ace has died and now has made room for Sabo's return. Then Sabo probably will take on Akainu and avenge Ace. Luffy is going to train on his haki and him and the other strawhats will get stronger and meet back at the island they were defeated at. Now all we need is to see what ability Sabo has he probably will have power equal or greater than Ace.

strawhatsx
June 24, 2010, 12:26 AM
Remember, Luffy isnt fully aware of his Kings disposition Powers, and dosent really know when he uses haki all the time.. it just Flows out of him when it was needed... Letting luffy know Of this hidden power will give him the strength he needs

methodmethod2
June 24, 2010, 12:37 AM
I seriously doubt there is any real significance behind us seeing a glimpse of zoro & kuina training. Well, knowing oda there is bound to be some reasoning behind such a happenstance as dragon & his entourage just happening to dock on the same island which zoro's dojo was located simply to purchase rations/regroup.. I personally dont see any, though.

Hopefully Sabo is alive, clearly its a rarity for nobility to forsake there own kind, killing off a youngling with such a wicked additude is silly. Though if he did survive then he has 7 years of pirate(?) experience over ace, and 10 years over luffy. Sooo he's likely near/approaching the summit of whichever path he decided to choose. But the sabo living theory has some holes, bleh.

Get stronger Luffy!!

k-dom
June 24, 2010, 12:41 AM
If kuina was alive under a boy form she wouldn't had let her sword in the dojo, would she

ceasar
June 24, 2010, 12:44 AM
Remember, Luffy isnt fully aware of his Kings disposition Powers, and dosent really know when he uses haki all the time.. it just Flows out of him when it was needed... Letting luffy know Of this hidden power will give him the strength he needs

This depends on the level of mastery he gets with this Haki. Remember Marco and vista of the wb pirates had haki and used it but only damaged akainu a little. Luffy needs more than haki control he was getting trounced by Vice admirals who were rokushi users. He needs haki and complete mastery of gear third along with maybe one more special technique before he can truly challenge for Pirate king.

Bonfire01
June 24, 2010, 02:28 AM
I really enjoyed this chapter. I thought Oda did a really good job of explaining how Ace and Luffy's relationship evolved and how Ace changed personality so drastically. He even explained exactly why they left for the sea at age 17... a really nice touch. I also thought the pacing was really good. He got through a lot in a few pages without making it seem rushed.

The most interesting bit in there though was the final page. I don't think i've ever heard Luffy describe himself as weak before. Even when he lost all his Nakama on SA he only said "what's wrong with me". The rest of the manga he's always described himself as strong and acted with immense confidence.

Should be interesting to see what Oda goes for next. Luffy saying he's weak could be a hook into a training arc since I can't think of any other reason he'd ask for help to train considering the way he's improved himself before.

Next chapter should be pretty interesting.

ulamukuk
June 24, 2010, 02:46 AM
man i got to agree with you bonfire.....it might be a hint for a training arc

Razh
June 24, 2010, 03:08 AM
You have two excellent theories here, so here's my interpretation:

1) Quite possibly, I can translate the chapter to have the intention that Dragon brought aboard a lot of people from Trash Mountain who had been injured from the fires. It appears they were concerned about the rations (and I'm expecting medical "rations" here, not food) and thus stopped in at a port to get more.

NOTABLY (for both theories): There is nothing there to say the port with Zoro+Kuina's dojo was the same island as the Goa Kingdom. Given we were not explicitally told it was the same island, I'm assuming it is a different island.

So back on the Sabo theory: this means Sabo would have had to have floated to this dojo island faster than Dragon sailed his ship there (of course, Sabo left a good half a day or so later). It seems like too large an impossibility.

Well, they did pick up a large number of people from the Gray Terminal during the fire. I'm guessing that's the reason they had to stop somewhere for supplies. And yeah, I'm almost sure that it's a different island, but it doesn't seem to be too far away.

The thing about Sabo rescue is, that I believe Dragon can fly. Yeah, it sound funny to me too when I read it. From the flashback it seemed like the rest of the revolutionaries came to that island earlier while Dragon stayed behind. And yeah, I know it may seem far fetched that Dragon can fly or something, but his power does seem to have something to do with wind. When you think about it, both Dragon zoan and air logia, for example, would allow him to fly.
That's my take on it, anyway.


2) Kuina's disappearance: If Kuina had asked Iva to do anything, it would have honestly been for Iva to turn her into a man. It almost appeared like that was her wish since her gender was her greatest "perceived flaw", not her actual memories (doesn't make sense).

I still do think there is a Tashigi = Kuina possibility, as I always found Zoro's flashback intensely disappointing (as far as all the flashbacks go, he has the weakest, though he also had the second aside from Luffy so Oda has gained experience since then).

I honestly expect a Zoro flashback in the near future (next 100-200 chapters at the most), since to me Oda just hinted further at it with those two pages. I mean, if Sabo is indeed dead (as I cannot see how he would be "picked up" on the island), then what would have been Oda's intention of even showing us these these pages?)

Yeah, it kinda wouldn't make sense if she suddenly wanted to forget about being a swordsman. But it just feels weird all together. And that flashback was too short, really. You can't know everything there is to know about a character in, what, 6 pages or so?
Now that I think about it, maybe her father asked Ivankov, the miracle worker to do it. It does seem cruel, but if she was really unhappy, who knows. Anyway, I hope we do get to find out more. I can see a possibility of Zoro fighting Tashigi again, then says something similar to what he said on that night of the duel, triggering her memory.

As for her father, he may be a revolutionary too, or at least a supporter. Lol, imagine if all of his students end up joining the revolution. Sort of like a recruiter.

omegakai
June 24, 2010, 03:12 AM
You have two excellent theories here, so here's my interpretation:

1) Quite possibly, I can translate the chapter to have the intention that Dragon brought aboard a lot of people from Trash Mountain who had been injured from the fires. It appears they were concerned about the rations (and I'm expecting medical "rations" here, not food) and thus stopped in at a port to get more.

NOTABLY (for both theories): There is nothing there to say the port with Zoro+Kuina's dojo was the same island as the Goa Kingdom. Given we were not explicitally told it was the same island, I'm assuming it is a different island.

So back on the Sabo theory: this means Sabo would have had to have floated to this dojo island faster than Dragon sailed his ship there (of course, Sabo left a good half a day or so later). It seems like too large an impossibility.

2) Kuina's disappearance: If Kuina had asked Iva to do anything, it would have honestly been for Iva to turn her into a man. It almost appeared like that was her wish since her gender was her greatest "perceived flaw", not her actual memories (doesn't make sense).

I still do think there is a Tashigi = Kuina possibility, as I always found Zoro's flashback intensely disappointing (as far as all the flashbacks go, he has the weakest, though he also had the second aside from Luffy so Oda has gained experience since then).

I honestly expect a Zoro flashback in the near future (next 100-200 chapters at the most), since to me Oda just hinted further at it with those two pages. I mean, if Sabo is indeed dead (as I cannot see how he would be "picked up" on the island), then what would have been Oda's intention of even showing us these these pages?)

that an interesting interpretation i really kinda agree with second one because show that scene could have something to hint at a second zoro flash which reveals that his rival is still alive. but the first one is kinda off because i don't think oda would have wasted his time to show that if it was to talk about dragon treating the people from trash mountain since we know he picked them up in his ship. It would however make sense if dragon was late because he remain on the island or visited his hometown in secret while the rest of the revolutionaries head to a haven where they could get supplies. So in theory it could be that either sabo is alive and is heavily disfigured or your second option about kuina becoming a man using ivankov power since she clearly stated that it was he greatest weakness.

BlackHair
June 24, 2010, 03:13 AM
Maybe it's just me but the character "Sabo" has imo a cheap value in the story. He was Luffy's brother yet we never heard a damn word from him, until Ace died. Especially this (Panel1) (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/18) part seems to me somehow unfitting.

Anyway, I originally thought this flashback was needed to deepen Ace role in the story and as well as some character development for Luffy. But I guess the main purpose was to introduce Sabo and to join him with Dragon.

Hopefully Oda will focus on the SHs and/or after effect of WB's death.

omegakai
June 24, 2010, 03:16 AM
now there will probably be a decent time lapse or he could go with a chapter or two to show luffy recovery and progression. Then branch off to a half a chapter for each other crew member showing their progress and then a skip to the next arc and Shabondy

terrorei
June 24, 2010, 03:29 AM
First I love the cover of this chapter. You have to love the idea of the Magictrick performed by the monkey and yeah there are those to girls ... :D.

Ah its nice too sea, that my feeling about Sabo wasn't that far off (Through there is slit possibility thats its not him). I also thought of an explanation why Dragon returned. If you remember Sabo was talking to Dragon when the fire started. He might told him / asked him to rescue the people of the Grey Turminal and offered him the treasure that they have collected. After Dragon did help the people to escape the fire he returned afterwards too get get the treasure. And thats when he witnessed the attack of the CD and was somehow able to rescue him. (The part with the Treasure might be wrong, but since it was mentioned this chapter that Sabo took the whole treasure where I think he would have left something for Ace and Luffy. The only explanation would be that he thought he uses their shares for their / greater benefit.)

BTW: Am I the only one who looking at Makino on this page 589 - p.18 (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/18) get the feeling that she resemble Shakki (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/499/02/) in some way? (Besides also being a Bartender :P). They personalitys are much alike too.


PS: I just realized something look here what Luffy is saying here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/11/). Deos it trigger something of the last chapters?

Edit:



Anyway, I originally thought this flashback was needed to deepen Ace role in the story and as well as some character development for Luffy. But I guess the main purpose was to introduce Sabo and to join him with Dragon.

Hopefully Oda will focus on the SHs and/or after effect of WB's death.

This flashback wasn't mainly to show Sabo becoming an RA. It a slight side product of showing Luffy past and bounds with Ace. And also it has many parallels the the currant story development - Luffy enters a new stage to reach his dreams and therefor realize that he needs much more stronger to be able to protect hes friends. (What most likely will contibute to the power of his haki)
Besides Sabo wouldn't have been such a big deal if the main discussion of the past chapters wasn't whether he is alive or not.

jokey
June 24, 2010, 04:22 AM
does anyone know what luffy means when he said sabo is number 1, ace is number 2 and he is number 3?... does it mean that sabo is the oldest or the strongest?..

Akainu
June 24, 2010, 04:29 AM
nah, it only means that Sabo was the first to leave and Luffy will be the last of the three brothers

btw, totally love the T-shirts Luffy and Ace usually wear - like page 12 this time with eski-'mooo' and the mooo was the head of a cow =D

Ratatosk
June 24, 2010, 04:33 AM
it follows Oda's way of doing stuff like when luffy trained for gear 2 an d3. We never saw it but the training was still done.
I don't know, seemed like he came up with the idea beforehand, but he was quite surprised how tired he was after using Gear 2nd against Bluno. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the first time he used it. And the same when he shrunk after using Gear 3.

Did anyone notice what Ace said about the treasure disappearing by the way? We don't know what happened after Ace and Dadan beat Bluejam, but Ace told him and his crew where the treasure was, so the fact that it's gone means some of them escaped. Sabo might have taken his share of the treasure but not all of it. Yet more characters from the past are still around to cause trouble :D

Luffy really does need his friends back right now..

mlinko
June 24, 2010, 05:43 AM
It's going to be trainig arc, the stage is set for it, especially the last page of the last chapter

Razh
June 24, 2010, 06:05 AM
Well, I don't think he even realizes how much stronger he has become over the last couple of days. Once he recovers, he's gonna be buffed. I'm thinking, more stamina, greater speed, strength and perhaps the most important thing, battle experience. He was exposed to several different fighting styles and devil fruit powers.

Of course, since Luffy is no stranger to hard training and since he now thinks of himself as weak, I don't doubt that he'll try to do something about it.

Arkadi
June 24, 2010, 06:14 AM
jimbei wil learn luffy fishmankarate,

and luffy will do a GIGANTO FISHMAN KARATE STYLE LEVEL 2000 RUBBER BULLET.

redzrae
June 24, 2010, 06:32 AM
jimbei wil learn luffy fishmankarate,

and luffy will do a GIGANTO FISHMAN KARATE STYLE LEVEL 2000 RUBBER BULLET.

it is too much!! hehe.. well im thinking that he will surrender himself to the World Government and this will shake the whole world in One piece... what will happen is that, his nakamas will rescue him to the Marineford, the Marijoa... All the strawhat pirates will fight all the way to rescue their captain luffy and encourage him to the fullest! and when they are ready to get back, Sabo will immediately show up to help them escape and say: didn't Ace teach you to never give up?!?!

WHAT d'you think?

Ykee
June 24, 2010, 06:39 AM
Do you think Kuina might have joined Revolutionary with Sabo? I mean we know Dragon was on Zoro's Island and had a lunch with maybe Zoro's master.

Sabo is probably the one being healed so who knows. :darn

ulamukuk
June 24, 2010, 07:09 AM
i am loving op more after this chapter....it shows great character development from the luffy who was like so confident in his ability : like in his fight with moria he mentioned that he will not lose etc. I predict a few pages showing some training and it will move on to the other strawhats. Since training arcs are not common in op, i'd say this is the most possible outcome. And its true razh that he will surely be buffed with improved physical capabilies and experience but i seriously doubt that will be enough. He needs a serious powerup or a hint in using haki or perhaps some training by jinbei.
Just an idea here....won't it be cool if luffy has geppou? he won't be falling into the sea anymore

sarutobi_sensei
June 24, 2010, 07:51 AM
it is too much!! hehe.. well im thinking that he will surrender himself to the World Government and this will shake the whole world in One piece... what will happen is that, his nakamas will rescue him to the Marineford, the Marijoa... All the strawhat pirates will fight all the way to rescue their captain luffy and encourage him to the fullest! and when they are ready to get back, Sabo will immediately show up to help them escape and say: didn't Ace teach you to never give up?!?!

WHAT d'you think?

I like the idea of the Nakama's invading and freeing him, but I don't like that he surrenders. If he fights against an admiral, well that's better, cause he won't have an excuse. If he surrenders, it just means he is weak :|

Anyway, not only would the Nakama's help him, but everyone he has helped and met throughout the manga would appear to save him.

Countries like Arabasta would try and persuade the government on doing that, the RA, WB pirates, Shanks, Lola Pirates, The Saru Brothers, and Oda knows who else would appear to save him.

But honestly, if this does happen, let it be near the end. I don't want another saving someone arc so long like this one.

Freid
June 24, 2010, 07:58 AM
it is too much!! hehe.. well im thinking that he will surrender himself to the World Government and this will shake the whole world in One piece... what will happen is that, his nakamas will rescue him to the Marineford, the Marijoa... All the strawhat pirates will fight all the way to rescue their captain luffy and encourage him to the fullest! and when they are ready to get back, Sabo will immediately show up to help them escape and say: didn't Ace teach you to never give up?!?!

WHAT d'you think?

I cnt see luffy surrendering himself to the government. Even in his depressed state, all I see him doin is quittin on his dream. He has no reason to hand himself in. Gold roger handed himself in in order to create the new pirate era. Luffy handin himself in would be pointless. And besides, his crew would never be able to take him back once he's in marineford. If WB's crew couldn't Beat them, no way in a million hells would luffys crew be able to.. but if sabo is alive, I do see him playin a role in luffy regaining his confidence. That was probably the point of the flashback. Cause luffy thinks he's lost both brothers, and at both losses he called himself weak. if he finds out sabo is alive then it would reassure him that he is not so weak afterall

THM Nindo
June 24, 2010, 08:10 AM
it is too much!! hehe.. well im thinking that he will surrender himself to the World Government and this will shake the whole world in One piece... what will happen is that, his nakamas will rescue him to the Marineford, the Marijoa... All the strawhat pirates will fight all the way to rescue their captain luffy and encourage him to the fullest! and when they are ready to get back, Sabo will immediately show up to help them escape and say: didn't Ace teach you to never give up?!?!

WHAT d'you think?

I can see that happen someday, but certainly not now...
We're just out of the "Save Ace" arc... so we can't go into a "Save Luffy" arc, right away.

Bugzee
June 24, 2010, 08:40 AM
Geez it took forever for the one week break to pass for me lol.

I still had some hope that Sabo was alive from the previous two chapters but this week's chapter has finally put that issue to rest? Maybe? "Hurry up with the first aid" (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/8)...Did Dragon rescue Sabo? :p I know, I know...it's hard to imagine him alive now after these chapters. :darn

Seems to me as this Baltigo place is most probably Dragon's (+ the RV's) main base/HQ? I can't wait to see it and Dragon's ship looks awesome! Anyway, finally we get back to the present time on AL! As much as I enjoyed the content of the flashback chapters and it's importance to the main story, I've been dying to see how and when the SH's will reunite back together again. I sure hope it gets done and dusted before the year ends. :bored (:XD) I am confident that we will see them altogether again very soon.

Vice Guard Domino looks good on the cover; I would sure like to see more of her. D:


jimbei wil learn luffy fishmankarate,

and luffy will do a GIGANTO FISHMAN KARATE STYLE LEVEL 2000 RUBBER BULLET.

I guess it would be cool for Luffy to learn some Fishmen Karate, maybe he can incorporate it into one of his new moves? I doubt it though. It's more likely that Jinbei's Fishmen Karate will trigger an awesome idea (inspiration-wise) in Luffy's mind and we'll get a new gomu gomu technique!? I still believe someone needs to teach or explain to Luffy more about Haki....will it be Boa or someone else? I say Elder Nyon would help at this stage.

deprince69
June 24, 2010, 09:16 AM
jimbei wil learn luffy fishmankarate,

and luffy will do a GIGANTO FISHMAN KARATE STYLE LEVEL 2000 RUBBER BULLET.

you are forgeting to add kamehameha to it

finaly the flashback is over, to be honest there was nothing too special about this flash and i don't know why it was so long because all it said that luffy and ace had an agreement to be strong and free men... hopefully since this flashback was long then it makes luffy stronger cuz i guess ace and sabo is the only reason luffy wants to become a free man

llmcduff
June 24, 2010, 09:19 AM
Geez it took forever for the one week break to pass for me lol.

I still had some hope that Sabo was alive from the previous two chapters but this week's chapter has finally put that issue to rest? Maybe? "Hurry up with the first aid" (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/8)...Did Dragon rescue Sabo? :p I know, I know...it's hard to imagine him alive now after these chapters. :darn

Seems to me as this Baltigo place is most probably Dragon's (+ the RV's) main base/HQ? I can't wait to see it and Dragon's ship looks awesome! Anyway, finally we get back to the present time on AL! As much as I enjoyed the content of the flashback chapters and it's importance to the main story, I've been dying to see how and when the SH's will reunite back together again. I sure hope it gets done and dusted before the year ends. :bored (:XD) I am confident that we will see them altogether again very soon.

Vice Guard Domino looks good on the cover; I would sure like to see more of her. D:



I guess it would be cool for Luffy to learn some Fishmen Karate, maybe he can incorporate it into one of his new moves? I doubt it though. It's more likely that Jinbei's Fishmen Karate will trigger an awesome idea (inspiration-wise) in Luffy's mind and we'll get a new gomu gomu technique!? I still believe someone needs to teach or explain to Luffy more about Haki....will it be Boa or someone else? I say Elder Nyon would help at this stage.

The page you linked to is the most intriguing to me too. Seems so out of place. First panel is probably Ace training? Who's the boy lifting the rock? It can't be Ace or Luffy since it doesn't seem to be the right place and he has spiky hair. It could be Sabo, but that doesn't make sense either. And yeah, who's the first aid for? I hope it's for Sabo. I'm putting the chance of Sabo being alive at 60% base on this page.

THM Nindo
June 24, 2010, 09:25 AM
The page you linked to is the most intriguing to me too. Seems so out of place. First panel is probably Ace training? Who's the boy lifting the rock? It can't be Ace or Luffy since it doesn't seem to be the right place and he has spiky hair. It could be Sabo, but that doesn't make sense either. And yeah, who's the first aid for? I hope it's for Sabo. I'm putting the chance of Sabo being alive at 60% base on this page.

It's Kuina and Zoro.
Dragon stopped on their island for some reason.

And it seems that Kuina's father had links with the RA, since he's the one that gave them the rations they needed.

It makes me (and a lot more) wonder if this was just a fanservice cameo, or if this has more meaning...

I've always been hoping for Kuina to be alive (or for Tashigi to actually be a amnesic Kuina, or something like that)...
That would be bad writing, but I really didn't wanted her to die... :(

Freid
June 24, 2010, 10:32 AM
People keep sayin someone getting amnesia is bad writing. I don't see how it is. I mean, if we find out that kuina had amnesia it would be fine. Its not impossible. It occurs. We don't need massive plot twists all the time to make a good story. its not even like kuina is a big part of the manga so her having had amnesia is no big deal imo..havin said this, I'm not in favour of kuina being tashigi neither am I in favour of her not being tashigi. Its just something I wanted to point out....

Atemu
June 24, 2010, 11:00 AM
I guess its now when the big change for luffy is gonna be. Oda is not the type that focuses on weird hatred and revenge so i don't think luffy's character is going to change much,but he needs to get stronger more then ever now since the world knows who he is and what he is capable of

Bugzee
June 24, 2010, 11:37 AM
The page you linked to is the most intriguing to me too. Seems so out of place. First panel is probably Ace training? Who's the boy lifting the rock? It can't be Ace or Luffy since it doesn't seem to be the right place and he has spiky hair. It could be Sabo, but that doesn't make sense either. And yeah, who's the first aid for? I hope it's for Sabo. I'm putting the chance of Sabo being alive at 60% base on this page.

Well after THM Nindo (I'm glad you replied lol) kindly cleared that issue up with his post, I can totally understand what you mean about the survival chances of Sabo XD! I seriously thought that the first aid talk was possibly a hint or indication that Sabo may still be alive....for all we know he could've been washed away by the sea towards Zoro & Kuina's island!? Which was concidently the area in which Dragon's ship was on route towards. Damn, I confess I totally missed the top panel with Kuina. :darn

Why am I holding onto the fact that Sabo may still be alive? His dream! I honestly believe that his dream is one of the most important one's revealed thus far in OP. It perfectly fits in with all the other SH's dreams as well. Mmm. Oh well...I guess I'll have to wait and see! :D



And it seems that Kuina's father had links with the RA, since he's the one that gave them the rations they needed.

It makes me (and a lot more) wonder if this was just a fanservice cameo, or if this has more meaning...

I've always been hoping for Kuina to be alive (or for Tashigi to actually be a amnesic Kuina, or something like that)...
That would be bad writing, but I really didn't wanted her to die... :(

It would be interesting if someone forced/persuaded (Her father?) Kuina to "fake her own death" for a reason that ties with the RV's. I don't really want Tashigi to be later revealed as Kuina from back in the day. That would suck to me. Possible relation? That's been debated/argued a lot. Mmmm and Amensia? Depends on the circumstances I guess. I wouldn't rule it out neither do I honestly see it coming atm.

What do you think Zoro's reaction would be if he finds out (and us readers too) that Kuina is actually very much alive? It would significantly affect his mind state, belief and approach to his swordsmanship imo. We've seen countless times where Zoro's in the middle of a battle/fight and suddenly gets these flashbacks of the younger days of him and Kuina fighting...which always gives him the boost/motivation to not give up and that he must not die in such a place. This chapter has blown me away once again. So many possiblities fo the future...

k-dom
June 24, 2010, 12:22 PM
I'm afraid but I want Kuina to be deadly dead. This amnesia theory would completly ruin Zoro dream. He made the promise with her to become the strongest swordman. And Tashigi is definitly too weak for that. I don't know why Oda make Tashigi look like her but I seriously hope it is not this amnesia cliché.
Unfortunatly it seems Oda get the potential of the flashback only from Sanji. That means Zoro's and Usopp's ones will always be weaker than the other crew members but we have to accept that.

Concerning next chapter I'm wondering who will be the one who will confort Luffy, Hancock, Jinbei, Law ? Something must happen so that he regain faith in himself. Learning haki seems the most logical. To me, the question is time skip or not time skip ?

Josl
June 24, 2010, 12:25 PM
Well after THM Nindo (I'm glad you replied lol) kindly cleared that issue up with his post, I can totally understand what you mean about the survival chances of Sabo XD! I seriously thought that the first aid talk was possibly a hint or indication that Sabo may still be alive....for all we know he could've been washed away by the sea towards Zoro & Kuina's island!? Which was concidently the area in which Dragon's ship was on route towards. Damn, I confess I totally missed the top panel with Kuina. :darn


It was more like that:

The revolutionists left Goa Kingdom but Dragon stayed behind to do something. Probably watching the celestial dragon.
He comes back to the other revolutionists late that night, Ivankov states he's late and making them wait, then notices he brought someone with him.
The crew rushes to give that someone first aid.

It was already last chapter more than obvious that Sabo isn't dead. This chapter is like the confirmation that Dragon saved him. I mean it's not 100% but it's 99,9999999999999999999999999999999999%

anhdeptrai
June 24, 2010, 12:27 PM
I found that Luffy's age is the most intriguing fact in this chapter (beside other stuff that you guys are discussing). So Luffy left the village at the age of 17, the manga is going on 12 years now, how long it's been in the story for Luffy since he left the village? 1-3, 5 years? Also, have you guys noticed that the drawing of Luffy's character also matured over time? what I mean is looking back at first chapter/anime, he looks like an immature kid; Luffy's now is more teenager-type but definitely a lot manlier. In addition, before entering the New World, all the fights that we've seen, never end up in death, but right before SH enter the New World, we see 2 deaths in a fight. To me, this is an indication that we will see more serious/intense/death match fights that actually resulted people dying. Before New World, OP is like rated PG-13 but now the story shifted to rated-R type :P.

The second development about Luffy's age is that he actually matured enough to get marry :). I definitely think it's been over a year since he left the village so that make him 18 years of age, the legal age for all marriages in the world and in manga. Hell yea, I want more love-love side story between Luffy and Hancock. We all seen Luffy as a goofy/immature/dump kid but in fact, he is older than what we think. Could we see more serious Luffy in the near future? possibly. I don't want Luffy to be a serious-type character as I enjoy all the stupid jokes and dumpass thing that he's doing but that not out of possibility.

THM Nindo
June 24, 2010, 01:03 PM
I found that Luffy's age is the most intriguing fact in this chapter (beside other stuff that you guys are discussing). So Luffy left the village at the age of 17, the manga is going on 12 years now, how long it's been in the story for Luffy since he left the village? 1-3, 5 years? Also, have you guys noticed that the drawing of Luffy's character also matured over time? what I mean is looking back at first chapter/anime, he looks like an immature kid; Luffy's now is more teenager-type but definitely a lot manlier. In addition, before entering the New World, all the fights that we've seen, never end up in death, but right before SH enter the New World, we see 2 deaths in a fight. To me, this is an indication that we will see more serious/intense/death match fights that actually resulted people dying. Before New World, OP is like rated PG-13 but now the story shifted to rated-R type :P.

The second development about Luffy's age is that he actually matured enough to get marry :). I definitely think it's been over a year since he left the village so that make him 18 years of age, the legal age for all marriages in the world and in manga. Hell yea, I want more love-love side story between Luffy and Hancock. We all seen Luffy as a goofy/immature/dump kid but in fact, he is older than what we think. Could we see more serious Luffy in the near future? possibly. I don't want Luffy to be a serious-type character as I enjoy all the stupid jokes and dumpass thing that he's doing but that not out of possibility.

I think Oda confirmed that Luffy was still 17...
He said something like "this arc" will be the last arc with Luffy at 17, meaning that he was turning 18 soon, or something like that...

I don't remember where I saw that though... maybe in one of those Q&A in the volumes...

Akainu
June 24, 2010, 01:39 PM
It was an interview (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56030) in volume 0 where Oda stated this. whether or not it was directed at the manga or movies is unknown, however the point stays valid that Luffy in the mangas storyline still is 17 years old up to this day. Whether or not there will be a timeskip now - which is more likely than Oda showing Luffy train etc. - remains to be seen. Atm I'd rather see Luffy being formally introduced to haki by the Kujas then two chapters about the strawhats setting off and back to Luffy knowcking out the monsters of calm belt when he does so himself to show he has improved.

Zoro #1
June 24, 2010, 02:00 PM
I would rather want luffy to learn something about Haki than go on and continue his journey. BCz i believe it is about time luffy learned about his Haki and a way to use it.

k-dom
June 24, 2010, 02:07 PM
What Oda stated also hinted that his stay by the kuja and the Strawhat in their respective island will take quite some time. Enough at least for Luffy to start to master haki

Captain-Awesome
June 24, 2010, 03:55 PM
I wonder how the strawhat crew is going to react to ace's death? And of course seeing luffy after all that time has passed. What will they say after they see luffy in the state he is he has never been that insecure over his strengt before. And the last page really got to me :(

And I think he will at least try to master Haki probably with some help and he will do anything to get stronger after he picks himself up. And I do not think there will be a training arc it just doesn't seem oda to me

chess4
June 24, 2010, 04:12 PM
I think oda is just getting sabo's flashback out of the way. I think oda is setting him up to be the next strawhat. Its Obvious dragon saved sabo. Why else have dragon show up in the flashback. We know sabo's dream and what he wanted to be, a writer and that's something the strawhats don't have. Remember the strawhats have kept a journal of everything they have done.


Sabo could turn that journal into a book recording the luffy's journey from calbo mountain to pirate king. I'm sure he has lost his memory and talking ro luffy will jog it. Anyway I think after this chapter we will see what everyone who partcipated in the war is doing......also what happened to moria and WB's funeral. I think we will geta couple chapters of that thenwe will see boa talking to luffy then we will get to the other hats

Poneglyph420
June 24, 2010, 04:36 PM
I think oda is just getting sabo's flashback out of the way. I think oda is setting him up to be the next strawhat. Its Obvious dragon saved sabo. Why else have dragon show up in the flashback. We know sabo's dream and what he wanted to be, a writer and that's something the strawhats don't have. Remember the strawhats have kept a journal of everything they have done.


Sabo could turn that journal into a book recording the luffy's journey from calbo mountain to pirate king. I'm sure he has lost his memory and talking ro luffy will jog it. Anyway I think after this chapter we will see what everyone who partcipated in the war is doing......also what happened to moria and WB's funeral. I think we will geta couple chapters of that thenwe will see boa talking to luffy then we will get to the other hats

I hate to be "that guy" so Sorry.. But I'm not 100% convinced that Dragon was shown so we'd all assume that Sabo was safe and sound.
IMO Dragon was shown, in a sense that he's mustering his forces at a grassroots level. He's slowly building his force, first from Goa and now from the Island that Zoro was trained on. He seems to recruit those who are downtrodden and forgotten. COuld he have saved Sabo, yes.. but it's not that obvious to me, actually it would be a stretch IMO.

It would also lower the pressure on Luffy, as the last of the brothers....

IMO if Ace gets Trolled and Sabo resurfaces as a major character, ouch.
But in the end it's not up to me or any of us... Oda as always will do it right.

I do hope we see the aftermath of the war in a bit more detail from here.
And more than anything I'm curious if it will be Boa or Jimbei who Luffy turns to for support.

Knowing the Ace Jimbei bond, I'd love to see him stay with Luffy and help "train" him... Then again the Kuja and Luffy have history so it's hard to say..

Either way it's exciting, very very exciting.

anhdeptrai
June 24, 2010, 06:01 PM
I would love to have the next 10 chapters focus on ecchi-ecchi-haki-training-with-Kuja-pirates. Jinbei can go home to his fishy island and leave the innocent boy to the no-man-land that could make him into manhood, did someone mention that this will be Luffy's last 17 years old plotline? is it mean he'll be 18? :D

It just so funny back when Kuja first captured Luffy. "wow, what are those thing between your legs?" "they are golden balls" "can I borrow it?" OMG just crack me up every time and I would love to see more of those stupid jokes; I love japanese's humor that you can't find in American's comic books. I wonder when it is published in English, how do they translate that or just keep it raw like what it is in Japanese, translated word by word.

hehe 10 chapters of ecchi-ecchi-haki-training-with-Kuja-pirates!!!!! who's with me? F those borring plotline/prediction :P :D

I doubt it, but wouldn't it be fun? hahahahaha

Roarchu
June 24, 2010, 08:23 PM
i haven't been reading, someone probably already said but

Dragon was late, he was ok, but apparently he brought someone with horrible wounds and needed first aid

http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/72772619/8

He was late cuz he brought Sabo, and he was the one who was injured. Who else right? And this was right around the time when the celestial dragons made their appearance, they were there, so there's no way Dragon and the others couldn't have witnessed Sabo's ship getting destroyed (not sure about this)

sorry, probably someone already said this, but just in case

elitefox
June 24, 2010, 08:26 PM
I would love to have the next 10 chapters focus on ecchi-ecchi-haki-training-with-Kuja-pirates. Jinbei can go home to his fishy island and leave the innocent boy to the no-man-land that could make him into manhood, did someone mention that this will be Luffy's last 17 years old plotline? is it mean he'll be 18? :D

It just so funny back when Kuja first captured Luffy. "wow, what are those thing between your legs?" "they are golden balls" "can I borrow it?" OMG just crack me up every time and I would love to see more of those stupid jokes; I love japanese's humor that you can't find in American's comic books. I wonder when it is published in English, how do they translate that or just keep it raw like what it is in Japanese, translated word by word.

hehe 10 chapters of ecchi-ecchi-haki-training-with-Kuja-pirates!!!!! who's with me? F those borring plotline/prediction :P :D

I doubt it, but wouldn't it be fun? hahahahaha

Wow that would definitely make Luffy a man :o

anyways I wonder what will be the focus now?
I mean there a 9 major characters to develop and the aftermath,
I wonder where Oda will start or he will open up another intriguing fraction(revolutionary decides to attack the weakened WG:p)

deprince69
June 24, 2010, 08:55 PM
since everyone is in prediction mode, i will predict something that will happen 100 percent guaranteed... luffy is gonna become pirate king in the end

and about luffy getting training, i highly doubt that will happen cuz luffy never trained anything but his devil fruit up to this point and even then those trainings he was doing was kind of just to give an idea of how it was like. it would only show garp punching them and then that was it... i dont think it will be like naruto or bleach where they teach how to control chakara or riatsu... thats not oda style and i think he himself mentioned somewhere that we will never see luffy do any sort of training where he takes a break from his adventure... he said he is all about basing the story on their adventure

Naruffy
June 24, 2010, 09:35 PM
Luffy training to get stronger is inevitable IMO, I doubt we'll see it however. It would be better if Oda had a time skip ranging from week to a month however long it takes the straw hats to get back to Shabony, from there they would go on into the new world and we will see their progress in the next arc. I think someone said this already, but this seems like the most likely way the next. However, Oda isn't usually that predictable.

jiminy
June 24, 2010, 09:45 PM
I wonder how long the Law pirates will be staying at Kuja Island. Luffy is practically healed so they have no need to be there any longer, so I dont see a purpose for them to stay any longer. The other Supernova pirates are already ahead on their journeys into the New World.

I do think that it would be awesome for Luffy to train with the Kuja and learn Haki. And once he has decent control of his haki, he goes to the Law pirates and unleashes haki.
Then says "Oops, just wanted to thank you guys for helping me out."

Im sure there has to be some interaction between Law and Luffy to be shown

warriorofvirtue
June 24, 2010, 11:03 PM
It was more like that:

The revolutionists left Goa Kingdom but Dragon stayed behind to do something. Probably watching the celestial dragon.
He comes back to the other revolutionists late that night, Ivankov states he's late and making them wait, then notices he brought someone with him.
The crew rushes to give that someone first aid.

It was already last chapter more than obvious that Sabo isn't dead. This chapter is like the confirmation that Dragon saved him. I mean it's not 100% but it's 99,9999999999999999999999999999999999%

So now percents go over 100? jk I know you meant to put a decimal. and i agree I think sabo isn't dead

terrorei
June 24, 2010, 11:29 PM
IMO if Ace gets Trolled and Sabo resurfaces as a major character, ouch.
But in the end it's not up to me or any of us... Oda as always will do it right.

I do hope we see the aftermath of the war in a bit more detail from here.
And more than anything I'm curious if it will be Boa or Jimbei who Luffy turns to for support.

Knowing the Ace Jimbei bond, I'd love to see him stay with Luffy and help "train" him... Then again the Kuja and Luffy have history so it's hard to say..

Either way it's exciting, very very exciting.

I didn't get the hype of the people "Sabo is dead" in the first place. It looked bad for him true, but it was obvious that his death wouldn't contribute to the story as much the death of all others before him. So why being disappointed in the possibility that he survived?

I'd also like to see the effect that the war had for the world. Oda did give us a small glimpse by showing Brownbeard invading Whitebeards Island, but it was not that much. Oda had build up such a complex World up till now it would only contribute to One Piece giving more details about the One Piece world.

And in fact I think it would be the right time for this.
1. Oda have interduced the Supernovas as new rivals of the Strawhats, which gathered from all around the world gives him the opportunity to show their homelands.
2. After showing the buildup of the RA during this Flashback a little he could interduce the RA little more by showing the circumstances all around the world.
and 3. After the death of WB the whole world will be reshaped once again like during the death of Gold Roger, it would simply be a waste not to show this process.



I cnt see luffy surrendering himself to the government. Even in his depressed state, all I see him doin is quittin on his dream. He has no reason to hand himself in. Gold roger handed himself in in order to create the new pirate era. Luffy handin himself in would be pointless...

He shows simply the human process after loosing someone close

1. Sorrow (showing the whole time during the flashback)
2. Recollection (the flashback remembering of the time he spent with him)
3. Requestioning everything (thats were Luffy is right now)
4. Resolution / Adaptation

The fourth point have been shown this chapter. After he realized he is weak, pointing out that he wants to become stronger and trained for that. I only hope this training want take 7 years like the last time :P.

Watching the latest parts of the filler and assuming that Oda really was advising them, it looks that there will be a time skip for that.
On the bride side it gives the opportunity to introduce the OP world like mentioning at the top :P

BTW:
Could you please stop that Luffy :love Boa thing? If you so eager to release "your pressure", I'm sure there are enough hentais for that matter.

And plz could we stop the resurrection of dead people for a moment the "Sabo thing" was/is more than enough.

elitefox
June 25, 2010, 03:13 AM
I didn't get the hype of the people "Sabo is dead" in the first place. It looked bad for him true, but it was obvious that his death wouldn't contribute to the story like all the death of all others before him. So why being disappointed in the possibility that he survived?

I'd also like to see the effect that the war had for the world. Oda did give us a small glimpse by showing Brownbeard invading Whitebeards Island, but it was not that much. Oda had build up such a complex World up till now it would only contribute to One Piece giving more details about the One Piece world.

And in fact I think it would be the right time for this.
1. Oda have interduced the Supernovas as new rivals of the Strawhats, which gathered from all around the world gives him the opportunity to show their homelands.
2. After showing the buildup of the RA during this Flashback a little he could interduce the RA little more by showing the circumstances all around the world.
and 3. After the death of WB the whole world will be reshaped once again like during the death of Gold Roger, it would simply be a waste not to show this process.




He shows simply the human process after loosing someone close

1. Sorrow (showing the whole time during the flashback)
2. Recollection (the flashback remembering of the time he spent with him)
3. Requestioning everything (thats were Luffy is right now)
4. Resolution / Adaptation

The fourth point have been shown this chapter. After he realized he is weak, pointing out that he wants to become stronger and trained for that. I only hope this training want take 7 years like the last time :P.

Watching the latest parts of the filler and assuming that Oda really was advising them, it looks that there will be a time skip for that.
On the bride side it gives the opportunity to introduce the OP world like mentioning at the top :P

BTW:
Could you please stop that Luffy :love Boa thing? If you so eager to release "your pressure", I'm sure there are enough hentais for that matter.

And plz could we stop the resurrection of dead people for a moment the "Sabo thing" was/is more than enough.

Idk bout one piece hentais but

from my point of view... they are a cute couple though the age gap... if it really matters.
pirate king is suppose to have the pirate empress :eyeroll

About the Sabo thing, the only thing I can say is "Oda SURPRISE us" :amuse

patz
June 25, 2010, 05:03 AM
I'm afraid but I want Kuina to be deadly dead. This amnesia theory would completly ruin Zoro dream. He made the promise with her to become the strongest swordman. And Tashigi is definitly too weak for that. I don't know why Oda make Tashigi look like her but I seriously hope it is not this amnesia cliché.
Unfortunatly it seems Oda get the potential of the flashback only from Sanji. That means Zoro's and Usopp's ones will always be weaker than the other crew members but we have to accept that.

Concerning next chapter I'm wondering who will be the one who will confort Luffy, Hancock, Jinbei, Law ? Something must happen so that he regain faith in himself. Learning haki seems the most logical. To me, the question is time skip or not time skip ?
I remember we saw Kuina's corspe. Unless she pretended to be dead to make Zoro grows up.

Gimbo TJ
June 25, 2010, 05:05 AM
So now percents go over 100? jk I know you meant to put a decimal. and i agree I think sabo isn't dead

Well in Europian countries we use "," as decimal not like in the states and GB where u use "." :amuse

Anyways Luffy is defo gonna have to train his Haki matery or at least get a glimps of it so he can improvise along the way.

redzrae
June 25, 2010, 05:16 AM
PLEASE stop whats happening on the flashbacks scenes of One piece, the chapters are on the "Now situation", on the present. I am seeing that the reunion of the SH pirates is near, won't you think that it is so boring that they will meet without actions?!?! well, im forecasting that they will meet on the day that Luffy is on the very desperate situation, maybe he is bounded with 8 viceadmirals and so many Marines and they trap luffy into corner, Luffy will get captured by a sea-stone nets (equip for devilfruit users to weaken/ to immobilize their powers), Zorro will first appear by cutting the net into half, then when a marine will get to kill zorro, Nami will then appear by a group of thunderclouds and hit them with a thunder tempo... Usopp and the rest will slowly appearing, one by one and saving one by one of their nakama... (IM 78% sure about it) (pls dont ask me why.. i know way further about Eiichiro Oda... ^_^

What d'you think?

ShinobiWrath
June 25, 2010, 05:27 AM
That sounds exciting but the SH crew all know where they need to be and that is the very last place they saw each other together so my guess is that they'll all meet again at the Shabondy Archipelago.

As for Kuina being alive, will there certainly is a possibility, after all, nothing is ever what it seems in One Piece, but Oda did make it seem as though she was really dead so it's a conundrum. Besides, her still being alive would ruin Zoro's story and his reasons for wanting to achieve his goal.

Duc :D
June 25, 2010, 05:33 AM
noway Kuina is alive...because oda created Tashgi and how awkward would it be if Zoro's dead relative suddenly reappeared.... cmon Dragon's team only rested there and took some ratio and maybe recruited new members but definitely not Kuina... It just doesnt seem right.
as for sabo I guess it's almost confirmed that he is alive but how knows

lets just focus on the upcoming training arc/timeskip/rest of the strawhats story or whatever oda has planned

deffkryz
June 25, 2010, 05:48 AM
I see... my prediction from two weeks ago wasn't that bad after all. :darn


First half of the chapter: We gonna see some panels how Luffy and Ace grew up and maybe stonger, how Ace finds his first black hat, maybe Dadan and Garp will have a talk about "Luffy's father" becoming some great revolutionist - we may hear about Titi's death and the Kind's conference as time references. The flashback ends with Ace leaving the island to become a great pirate and saying Luffy good-bye.

Second half - if my first half is too long for 9 pages, this is what I wish to become true for chapter 590: We're back in - probably another week has passed. Luffy thanks Law and tells him that he's not that of a bad person... Heart Pirates take a leave and think of giving Jinbei a ride home, that he declines.

Chapter ends with a ship approaching Amazon Lily - one with a dragon as figurehead ... Dragon steps on deck: "It's time Luffy... We need to talk." (And he'll have Robin on his ship)


But after seeing Luffy down on his knees, I'd like to revoke that second part about that minor timeskip... There'll be none since almost a month has already passed since that Sabaody incident. That should be enough time to get back from a three days trip by Kuma Airways.

Instead I'm about to guess that Oda is now coming back to a more relaxed way of progressing the story. We'll see Jinbei and some Kuja trying to cheer up Luffy (a lot of talking!) probably Law as well by returning his strawhat which he didn't seem to miss.

Luffy will remember the promise he made to Shanks who's probably the last one he promised to become strong, he'll remember his nakama (who he obviously didn't waste a thought anymore since he went to rescue Ace). At least he'll stop shedding tears on Ace's death at this moment.

The Heart Pirates are gonna leave Women's Island and head for Sabaody, Belladonna is going to treat the rest of Luffy's injuries.

IMO the flashback was also to pronounce Dragon meeting his son within the next tens of chapters (T-11 until Ch. 600). But I'm out of hype stamina so this meeting could be either on Amazon Lily, Sabaody or Fishmen's Island.

sarutobi_sensei
June 25, 2010, 08:47 AM
Now if that does happen, I'll love it. If Dragon comes out to talk to Luffy and has Robin, I'll be happy. Really happy :D

llmcduff
June 25, 2010, 09:30 AM
Reading through the bond that Ace and Luffy has, it's kind of weak the first time they met each other again in that sand kingdom. They barely talked. This current development definitely wasn't planned out way back then.

Uriel
June 25, 2010, 09:51 AM
Reading through the bond that Ace and Luffy has, it's kind of weak the first time they met each other again in that sand kingdom. They barely talked. This current development definitely wasn't planned out way back then.
I would say since it started for the way Oda showed us Luffy avoiding telling us the previous parts. :amuse

topkomputer
June 25, 2010, 10:11 AM
I didn't get the hype of the people "Sabo is dead" in the first place. It looked bad for him true, but it was obvious that his death wouldn't contribute to the story as much the death of all others before him. So why being disappointed in the possibility that he survived?


Did you ever count how many characters already Oda created since first chapter until now? There are already plenty, perhaps it's already 590 characters like its chapters. If Sabo died, it'll give meaning to Luffy that he is REALLY alone (no more brother). If Sabo live, there is no meaning at all (in my opinion) plus one more heavy addition to our brain to remember that there is one more unnecessary character that would appear in OP world.

jokey
June 25, 2010, 11:02 AM
so luffy still keeps sabo dear to his heart... sabo's gotta be alive man!!!... maybe appear to give luffy some encouragement or hope... he looks really helpless now, even doubting his dream to be pirate king... i hope that if oda intends to show us that sabo is alive... we wont have to wait long until his appearance... i like sabo he seems to be the level headed one out of the three brothers, kinda like zoro...

Dragon Slayer
June 25, 2010, 11:06 AM
now that LUFFY himelf has admitted that his weak. now and finally now i c smething changing with luffy. this is wr the real fun begins.

jokey
June 25, 2010, 11:14 AM
now that LUFFY himelf has admitted that his weak. now and finally now i c smething changing with luffy. this is wr the real fun begins.

i think luffys gonna be more serious, more level headed and not be a goofball anymore, he is really doubting himself, did u see the way he stared at jimbei when jimbei was about to tell him that ace is dead? he had that angry+evil look on his face... thats not the luffy we know...

i agree with you i think something inside luffy is going to change...

hy4k
June 25, 2010, 11:46 AM
i hope luffy retains his goofy personality and doesn't become an emo bitch

i hope he becomes more like shanks. serious when the situation demands it, smart and capable
[hr]

How was it fanservice if some didn't even thought that Kuina was alive. Heck, seeing Zoro, that is fanservice. Seeing Kuina, that implies something else.

not necessarily. kuina was the biggest part of zoro's life when he was young and she shaped him into what he is

it would be an asspull of tremendous proportions if it turns out she faked her death and became a revolutionary

BlackHair
June 25, 2010, 12:05 PM
This flashback wasn't mainly to show Sabo becoming an RA. It a slight side product of showing Luffy past and bounds with Ace. And also it has many parallels the the currant story development - Luffy enters a new stage to reach his dreams and therefor realize that he needs much more stronger to be able to protect hes friends. (What most likely will contibute to the power of his haki)
Besides Sabo wouldn't have been such a big deal if the main discussion of the past chapters wasn't whether he is alive or not.I disagree with the bolded part. Luffy already knew he was weak. He was beaten by AoKiji and Kuma before. At both occasions he wanted to get stronger. If this flashback as u claim was the purpose of Luffy thinking he was still weak, then it's a damn repetition and waste of flashback. That's why I cant agree with you.

Ace and Luffy's relationship is secondary in this flashback. Since it is not new to us, I mean we already knew they were brothers and that they cared for each other. Only thing which stand out to me was Dragon's appearance and his relationship to Sabo and Nobles as well as everything related to Dadan. Since that was new.

So I still think the main purpose was to introduce Sabo and to relate him with Dragon. But I guess it's a matter of viewpoint.


i hope luffy retains his goofy personality and doesn't become an emo bitch
i hope he becomes more like shanks. serious when the situation demands it, smart and capableIsn't he already like that?

THM Nindo
June 25, 2010, 12:22 PM
i hope luffy retains his goofy personality and doesn't become an emo bitch

i hope he becomes more like shanks. serious when the situation demands it, smart and capable

Exaclty.
Luffy must remain funny, but he can become more serious as well...

He can't go too emo (like when Naruto was crying every 2 chapters... -_-;), but I hope he gets more serious.

Shanks is good example of what I'd like Luffy to become.

k-dom
June 25, 2010, 12:37 PM
But after seeing Luffy down on his knees, I'd like to revoke that second part about that minor timeskip... There'll be none since almost a month has already passed since that Sabaody incident. That should be enough time to get back from a three days trip by Kuma Airways.


I don't think so, I think the time it will take for the Strawhat to come back together will not be that quick. Luffy is not the only one who needs to get stronger. Kuma did not send them to their island so that they come back immediatly, if Luffy has returned to Amazon Lilly is because he did not make what he was supposed to do there in the first place (I imagine it is to learn Haki).

msg
June 25, 2010, 12:40 PM
What i found interesting about one piece is that Oda like to inter connect certain characters to a random situations/characters.Take Dragon and shinotsuki? village for an example.I never really expected Dragon to visit that place.Is that random or already pre planned?Do you think Zoro or Kuina know or have seen sabo all along (assuming sabo is alive) or is that just a cameo appearance? we shall see.And then there is Robin meeting up with the RAs.Everything which seem unrelated goes back to Luffy.Imagine Luffy began to relate his life story to his crew.

Zoro: Sabo? that name sounds familliar.Wait. i did saw him at my village before when i was young
Luffy:What?!!

Prediction - Boa Hancock will deflower Luffy....jk.GO JAPAN & KOREA!!!!

sarutobi_sensei
June 25, 2010, 01:48 PM
i think luffys gonna be more serious, more level headed and not be a goofball anymore, he is really doubting himself, did u see the way he stared at jimbei when jimbei was about to tell him that ace is dead? he had that angry+evil look on his face... thats not the luffy we know...

i agree with you i think something inside luffy is going to change...


I honestly hope Luffy doesn't lose his funny character, and most of his "stupidity".

If he loses, he won't be Luffy, he'll be someone else, and I honestly don't want that.


Exaclty.
Luffy must remain funny, but he can become more serious as well...

He can't go too emo (like when Naruto was crying every 2 chapters... -_-;), but I hope he gets more serious.

Shanks is good example of what I'd like Luffy to become.

Even if he ends up being like Shanks, it'll still be odd.

Even tough Luffy is already a little like that. He is funny, acts funny and stupidly, but knows when the situation is serious.

deffkryz
June 25, 2010, 02:05 PM
As for the probable reasons for the treatments...

Around the same time there has been a major riot in the village Bellemere was fighting as a Marine and found Nami and Nojiko. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon's actions turn out to be the reason so there'd be another connection to Luffy's nakama. Sleepy Fans' translations speak of more than one person to be treated...

Or maybe Kuma is the one to be treated? I still wonder why Iva-chan and Kuma weren't shown more often than on one single panel.


i hope luffy retains his goofy personality and doesn't become an emo bitch

i hope he becomes more like shanks. serious when the situation demands it, smart and capable
Finally, one formulates my wish for Luffy's character development. :) So, right now, he doesn't have to evolve but only to regain his will-power and "overcome" his sadness over Ace's death.

Anyone read Romance Dawn in One Piece Red - so to say the very first version of One Piece? Luffy actually has this character outline in the end and kinda looks like Shanks with his little beard (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/0/51/).

terrorei
June 25, 2010, 02:18 PM
Ace and Luffy's relationship is secondary in this flashback. Since it is not new to us, I mean we already knew they were brothers and that they cared for each other.

So I still think the main purpose was to introduce Sabo and to relate him with Dragon. But I guess it's a matter of viewpoint.


I admit thats its hard to distinguish since there is a lot development involved in this flashback.
As Ace had died the community demanded to know more about Ace. So I think this flashback intended to be a memento for him, but adding all the other things (and the stubborn "Sabo dead" discuissen has diminished the first intend and it becomes something else.
It may be also more correct to split this flashback in more than one part, but into three.
1. Memento of Ace
2. Introducing Sabo
3. And this chapter as a bridge to the actual time line.

And about the first part of your post.

Its true that Luffy realized before that there were much stronger people out there than he was, but until now the conclusion of such clashes were very minor.
1. Smoker in Loguetown, Luffy escaped no one was hurt.
2. Fight vs Crocodile who was much stronger, Luffy were Lucky that he had such fatal weakpoint. No one he cared much have been hurt.
3. Encounter with Akoiji an total lose but no one got hurt. And also the trigger for Luffys first big power up.
... and so on.

And even the fight against the Admiral and Kuma where he realized that they are absolutely no match for them he and his whole crew survived unharmed.

But during the war Luffy had all this support of the WB Pirtes and everything went fine, but at the end Ace died in his hands. Its the first time that Luffy feels what it means in the future to lose a fight, it will cost a lives, lives he cares about.
So in my opinion its 2 things to know that you are weak and see/feel the consequences of the weakness.



Anyone read Romance Dawn in One Piece Red - so to say the very first version of One Piece? Luffy actually has this character outline in the end and kinda looks like Shanks with his little beard (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/0/51/).
If you would read the next page with Odas comments, You would realize that Oda thought from the beginning to make Luffy more Shanks like, but he is still uncertain if he'll really do so. (Well maybe he allready now since some time has passed).

THM Nindo
June 25, 2010, 02:50 PM
As for the probable reasons for the treatments...

Around the same time there has been a major riot in the village Bellemere was fighting as a Marine and found Nami and Nojiko. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon's actions turn out to be the reason so there'd be another connection to Luffy's nakama. Sleepy Fans' translations speak of more than one person to be treated...

Or maybe Kuma is the one to be treated? I still wonder why Iva-chan and Kuma weren't shown more often than on one single panel.


Finally, one formulates my wish for Luffy's character development. :) So, right now, he doesn't have to evolve but only to regain his will-power and "overcome" his sadness over Ace's death.

Anyone read Romance Dawn in One Piece Red - so to say the very first version of One Piece? Luffy actually has this character outline in the end and kinda looks like Shanks with his little beard (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/0/51/).

True.
I guess Oda really planned for Luffy to end up like Shanks.

And looking back at it, it looks like «Crescent moon» is kinda like the «Buggy» of One piece, and if you look at the flashforward, you can see that Crescent Moon is part of Luffy's crew...

Does that mean that Oda thought about having his rival-enemy join his crew in the end?
I think Buggy would definitely be a containder to joining the strawhat!!
Since the Impel Down arc, he became one of my favorite character.

BetaRuler
June 25, 2010, 03:51 PM
[/B]

True.
I guess Oda really planned for Luffy to end up like Shanks.

And looking back at it, it looks like «Crescent moon» is kinda like the «Buggy» of One piece, and if you look at the flashforward, you can see that Crescent Moon is part of Luffy's crew...

Does that mean that Oda thought about having his rival-enemy join his crew in the end?
I think Buggy would definitely be a containder to joining the strawhat!!
Since the Impel Down arc, he became one of my favorite character.

Buggy a strawhat would be AWESUME and Hilarious!... btw, fix your avatar XD Naruto looks like a manwhore with both of them like that! Jks

I also agree that I think Luffy will resolve himself to get more powerful, I don't think he'll ask anyone for help though he doesn't seem that type, rather I think he'll theorise a new attack in his head, or he'll return to an old attack that never worked before and perfect it to make some new move altogether! Something that'll start to put him on a new scale... That or some one might finally tell him how to use his Haki.

THM Nindo
June 25, 2010, 04:08 PM
Buggy a strawhat would be AWESUME and Hilarious!... btw, fix your avatar XD Naruto looks like a manwhore with both of them like that! Jks

I also agree that I think Luffy will resolve himself to get more powerful, I don't think he'll ask anyone for help though he doesn't seem that type, rather I think he'll theorise a new attack in his head, or he'll return to an old attack that never worked before and perfect it to make some new move altogether! Something that'll start to put him on a new scale... That or some one might finally tell him how to use his Haki.

I'm pretty sure that Haki is the only thing that can make Luffy stronger.
I mean... he's totally useless against Logia-type enemies (except Enel :tem)

Haki is the only way he can dream of becoming stronger than them...

chess4
June 25, 2010, 04:22 PM
buggy will not join the crew. if he wouldny join shanks then why would he join luffy. after the war buggy will be big time, broke out of impel down, fought at marineford, is shanks brother and was a rogers pirate.

oda can go so many ways with the story. i think he will begin with the participants in the war and what they are doing. its been 2 weeks so im sure Wb has been buried already.

one thing i am sure of is either sabo is alive or ace will come back to life. luffy cant be left alone. one thing this flashback did was put to rest the dadan is big mom.

what was interesting about this chapter was that all the gold that ace and sabo collected, it was gone. someone took it. maybe bluejam is alive

Poneglyph420
June 25, 2010, 04:54 PM
I'm pretty sure that Haki is the only thing that can make Luffy stronger.
I mean... he's totally useless against Logia-type enemies (except Enel :tem)

Haki is the only way he can dream of becoming stronger than them...

Well I agree Luffy will need to develop his control of his Haki.
But I'd like to see Luffy also continue to develop both his DF and his overall fighting ability. I think he needs to learn to "vulcanize" his rubber to make his fists and feet hard like a bowling ball or hockey puck!
That and like we saw in the war (vs. Mihawk), to evolve into a more educated and calculating warrior.




one thing i am sure of is either sabo is alive or ace will come back to life. luffy cant be left alone. one thing this flashback did was put to rest the dadan is big mom.

what was interesting about this chapter was that all the gold that ace and sabo collected, it was gone. someone took it. maybe bluejam is alive

Yeah I was wondering where the treasure went??? Did Bluejam take it? or did Sabo (before his disappearance)? I bet there's a plot twist in there somewhere....

I Love Ace as a character, but I sure hope IMO he doesn't come back to life..


(this is really off topic)

Okay so we know there is a reason that each straw hat was sent to different islands but what are the real reasons? and will Oda tell us?

From my view Point These are the reasons for each SH

Luffy: learn haki and accept failure
Zoro: become faster and able to rely on others and not lone wolf it
Nami: Understand weather better???
Robin: Able to trust people??
Franky: New body and will not need cola any more
Sanji: Become a cooky queer??? (i hope not)
Chopper: Be brave
Usuopp: get muscles and be more courageous
Brooke: Able to be a lone wolf fighter???

There's another thread for this.... post there dude.

Freid
June 25, 2010, 05:42 PM
i for one hopes that after this luffy dont get his ass kicked by people obviously much weaker than he is. like foxy. luffy getting his ass handed to him by foxy's tricks was so annoying.
[hr]
and yh, ace coming back to life at this point is sure to annoy allot of people. although this flashback made me really like ace, he needs to stay dead

Zatono
June 25, 2010, 05:50 PM
I agree, Ace needs to stay dead. Luffy can't just keep going with his happy go lucky life, he had to experience something traumatic like this during his journey eventually, and it finally happened.

Hopefully we'll see some real character development happening within the next couple of chapters, even though I think he'll end up reverting back later on..

mlinko
June 25, 2010, 05:56 PM
Now the training begins, it's going to be awesome. Luffy will learn haki, become stronger and MAYBE we will have time skip in this chapter

Josl
June 25, 2010, 07:09 PM
For those people who think/wish or fear that Ace might get back to life I have searched a specific interview

2007 (http://manganohi.jp/2007/12/9418.html) in Issue 31 of Weekly Shonen Jump Oda gave an interview.
Aohige from AP forums translated a certain part from the interview (http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1460589&postcount=591);
Interviewer = I
Oda = O

I: It's one of the defining characteristcs of One Piece that the protagonists don't die, and they don't kill their opponents either. In other words, people don't come back to life. How come you don't use the character revival plots like other manga?

O: Well, it's unnatural for people to come back to life, don't you think? (laughs) I don't like that type of stereotypical fantasy. That's why I want to have reasons for whatever happens in the manga, but if I have to resort to bringing someone back to life, it's better not to kill them in the first place. That's why my characters don't die, even when they're on the verge of death.

I: In recent years, most of the stories that has tear-inducing, heart wrenching moments basically rely on characters dying. But the tear-jerking scenes in One Piece seems different.

O: I don't think tears from seeing a person dying is a true drama. You know how everyone cries at funeral? (snipped) It's the same. It's not the same type of tears from being moved by a dramatic scene.
(snipped) Just because there's something painful, doesn't mean they cry easily. Even if the situation gets even worse, they still don't cry. Even when the situation gets excruciating, they still won't cry. They bear it, and bear it, and when finally a gentle soul shows up for them, the tears will flow naturally. It can't be held back anymore. That's the type of tears I consider "tears of being strongly moved". And when I draw such scene, I cry myself (laughs).

I will quote Aohige because he said it pretty good:

This is the interview where all these guys in forums and /a/ get their "Oda said he doesn't kill his characters" from.
If you actually read the interview, it's not as rediculous and extreme as what these guys make it out to be.
Not only that, he makes it clear that he doesn't want to kill his characters off precisely because he doesn't think characters should come back to life.


So to summarize and repeat:
Dead stays Dead
Death is only valid if there is a dead body and the death is on screen

hy4k
June 25, 2010, 09:44 PM
Isn't he already like that?

nope, he's pure instinct

he doesn't way up pros and cons, he doesn't try and look for non-confrontational ways out of things, he doesn't use his crewmates effectively and he doesn't plan ahead or think things through.

it's a wonder he survived so long without getting someone killed. so far he's gotten by on by on luck and instinct which isn't really going to cut it


Exaclty.
Luffy must remain funny, but he can become more serious as well...

He can't go too emo (like when Naruto was crying every 2 chapters... -_-;), but I hope he gets more serious.

Shanks is good example of what I'd like Luffy to become.

yep



Anyone read Romance Dawn in One Piece Red - so to say the very first version of One Piece? Luffy actually has this character outline in the end and kinda looks like Shanks with his little beard (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/0/51/).

yeah, i remember that. thaat's kind of where i'd like to see him end up

Nonlife
June 26, 2010, 12:41 AM
Oh, I am so glad we had a chapter this week - didn't notice till I checked out the latest on new chapters at Manga Stream. Seriously, I needed a new chapter to get my mind off ATLA related...stuff/news. At least we're fortunate for the flashback to come to an end, b/c I'd REALLY like to see the gang reunite!

Ratatosk
June 26, 2010, 08:03 AM
If you would read the next page with Odas comments, You would realize that Oda thought from the beginning to make Luffy more Shanks like, but he is still uncertain if he'll really do so. (Well maybe he allready now since some time has passed).

woah, that sounded more like he didn't know if Luffy would make it to that age or not..
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/0/52/
probably just the translation though. He knows how the story will end anyway.

chess4
June 26, 2010, 10:28 AM
For those people who think/wish or fear that Ace might get back to life I have searched a specific interview

2007 (http://manganohi.jp/2007/12/9418.html) in Issue 31 of Weekly Shonen Jump Oda gave an interview.
Aohige from AP forums translated a certain part from the interview (http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1460589&postcount=591);
Interviewer = I
Oda = O

I: It's one of the defining characteristcs of One Piece that the protagonists don't die, and they don't kill their opponents either. In other words, people don't come back to life. How come you don't use the character revival plots like other manga?

O: Well, it's unnatural for people to come back to life, don't you think? (laughs) I don't like that type of stereotypical fantasy. That's why I want to have reasons for whatever happens in the manga, but if I have to resort to bringing someone back to life, it's better not to kill them in the first place. That's why my characters don't die, even when they're on the verge of death.

I: In recent years, most of the stories that has tear-inducing, heart wrenching moments basically rely on characters dying. But the tear-jerking scenes in One Piece seems different.

O: I don't think tears from seeing a person dying is a true drama. You know how everyone cries at funeral? (snipped) It's the same. It's not the same type of tears from being moved by a dramatic scene.
(snipped) Just because there's something painful, doesn't mean they cry easily. Even if the situation gets even worse, they still don't cry. Even when the situation gets excruciating, they still won't cry. They bear it, and bear it, and when finally a gentle soul shows up for them, the tears will flow naturally. It can't be held back anymore. That's the type of tears I consider "tears of being strongly moved". And when I draw such scene, I cry myself (laughs).

I will quote Aohige because he said it pretty good:


So to summarize and repeat:
Dead stays Dead
Dead is only valid if there is a dead body and the death is on screen

well i sure oda has had this planned since the beginning, so that means ace is done for. we saw him die. hopefully sabo is still alive and will join the strawhats. i still cant believe ace is dead though. he was a cool character.

i think to get luffy out of this funk is going to take something traumatic seeing sabo is alive to get him out of it. sabo told ace to look after the weaker brother luffy. maybe sabo will show up and say since ace is gone i guess i will have to look after you now there by joining the crew

terrorei
June 26, 2010, 11:10 AM
woah, that sounded more like he didn't know if Luffy would make it to that age or not..
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/0/52/
probably just the translation though. He knows how the story will end anyway.

Yeah you are right :P. I've allready made many bridges in my mind, by combining "Adult Luffy" -> Looking like Shanks -> Shanks resemblance -> becoming like Shanks.

But to be honest, I don't know how Oda supposed to do that. Luffys personality play a big part of his Charisma to make other people his Allies. Change this part and it would take out a big Comedy part of One Piece.
At the end its what Nami said once. He seems to be lightheaded and dump, but if it's needed he is someone they can depend on.

@hy4k: Instinct isn't bad, in Luffys case you can say it an unconscious decision he makes. And up till know his "instinct" never failed. So why change an already working principle?

chess4
June 26, 2010, 11:57 AM
i hope oda goes back in time a week so we can see WB's funeral. i can see shanks giving the eulogy and you see a sea of pirates paying their respects to the monster that was Whitebeard. i also hope croc and das bones join the WB pirates because i cant see them getting a relevent crew together that could survive the new world.

buggy and his new crew including mr 1 will stick with the red hairs for a while until they can get a ship. we will probably see garp crying and regretting what he has done. we will probably see flamingo reporting the the gorousei that moria is dead. we will see koby helmelppo smoker and tashigi reflecting on the war. i think smoker will get another promotion. after that we will probably commence with the reunion

i also dont think its a coincidence that shanks and luffy look so much alike. maybe shanks is luffy's uncle, on his mothers side
[hr]
also we might get to see the reason law saved luffy. one thing is for sure luffy owes him big. i think from here on out law and luffy will be allies

Razh
June 26, 2010, 12:07 PM
nope, he's pure instinct

he doesn't way up pros and cons, he doesn't try and look for non-confrontational ways out of things, he doesn't use his crewmates effectively and he doesn't plan ahead or think things through.

it's a wonder he survived so long without getting someone killed. so far he's gotten by on by on luck and instinct which isn't really going to cut it


Check me out! (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/04/)

Think it through a little. Every time Luffy fought, it was unavoidable. He's not pure instinct, he picks up on some things very clearly when he wants to. I wouldn't say that he doesn't use his mates effectively. Well, he doesn't use them at all. He regards them as friends. They all do what they are good at. What is ineffective about that?

Anyway, if Luffy had been a guy who thinks things through, makes plans for the future and analyzes stuff thoroughly, this manga would have been boring as hell.
Think of it like Detective Conan with pirates... :s

k-dom
June 26, 2010, 01:04 PM
i think to get luffy out of this funk is going to take something traumatic seeing sabo is alive to get him out of it. sabo told ace to look after the weaker brother luffy. maybe sabo will show up and say since ace is gone i guess i will have to look after you now there by joining the crew

@Schabrak, see what I meant when I spoke about replacement thing. Chess4 scenario is exactly what I don't want to happen in the story

The rookie
June 26, 2010, 02:09 PM
i also dont think its a coincidence that shanks and luffy look so much alike. maybe shanks is luffy's uncle, on his mothers side
<hr noshade size="1">
also we might get to see the reason law saved luffy. one thing is for sure luffy owes him big. i think from here on out law and luffy will be allies

interesting point we will see when someone reveals shank's full name .
another little secret of oda :P

chess4
June 26, 2010, 02:18 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/589/07/

if you look at this page. invonkov begans to scold dragon because he is late. invonkov then says oh, as if to suggest who ever dragon brought that is wounded, is the reason he was late.

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Opeastbluerv8.jpg

ok look at this map. if sabo is alive then zoro' s home must be close to fushia village

panasit
June 26, 2010, 02:37 PM
The flashback helps me understood why Luffy wanted to be strong, wanted freedom, care about his friends, and want to become a pirate king.

It doesn't make me understand why he is so fearless in the face of death. Going back to read the earlier volume.

Anyway, I love this. I didn't post anything before the flashback is over. But I never agreed with people who think that Luffy thinking back will help him cope with losing Ace. I thought that is silly. Flashback should never solve anything. If anything it should makes the situation worse. And I was right, LOL. Wish I had typed it.

I don't think there will be training. One Piece is not like DBZ and Naruto. (not better or worse, just different) Remember, Gear second and Gear third came out of nowhere. I think Sabo will come to get him right away. Adult Sabo will be the big shock that will end next chapter.
[hr]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/589/07/

if you look at this page. invonkov begans to scold dragon because he is late. invonkov then says oh, as if to suggest who ever dragon brought that is wounded, is the reason he was late.

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Opeastbluerv8.jpg

ok look at this map. if sabo is alive then zoro' s home must be close to fushia village

Not if Dragon could ride the wind. We don't know what his power is yet.

Youbba
June 26, 2010, 03:10 PM
The flashback helps me understood why Luffy wanted to be strong, wanted freedom, care about his friends, and want to become a pirate king.

It doesn't make me understand why he is so fearless in the face of death. Going back to read the earlier volume.

Anyway, I love this. I didn't post anything before the flashback is over. But I never agreed with people who think that Luffy thinking back will help him cope with losing Ace. I thought that is silly. Flashback should never solve anything. If anything it should makes the situation worse. And I was right, LOL. Wish I had typed it.

I don't think there will be training. One Piece is not like DBZ and Naruto. (not better or worse, just different) Remember, Gear second and Gear third came out of nowhere. I think Sabo will come to get him right away. Adult Sabo will be the big shock that will end next chapter.
<hr noshade size="1">


Not if Dragon could ride the wind. We don't know what his power is yet.
I don't agree with you this point, The first time Luffy said he wanted to be the pirates king happened when Shanks was leaving his village, So it was before he meet Ace and before this flashback.
The reason why Luffy want to be the pirates king is still a mystery.
And we still don't know who told Luffy about the pirates king, I've always assumed that it was Shanks or someone else from his crew who told Luffy about the pirates king. But we can't be sure about that.
I really like Luffy flashback, I hope we get to know who told Luffy about the pirates king, Maybe his mother :D

chess4
June 26, 2010, 03:37 PM
I don't agree with you this point, The first time Luffy said he wanted to be the pirates king happened when Shanks was leaving his village, So it was before he meet Ace and before this flashback.
The reason why Luffy want to be the pirates king is still a mystery.
And we still don't know who told Luffy about the pirates king, I've always assumed that it was Shanks or someone else from his crew who told Luffy about the pirates king. But we can't be sure about that.
I really like Luffy flashback, I hope we get to know who told Luffy about the pirates king, Maybe his mother :D

it was probably shanks.............im sure we will get another flashback of luffy and shanks. shanks wwas probably telling him about how great the pirate king was, and that the pirate king was the most free and strongest of all pirates

gold349
June 26, 2010, 03:49 PM
If I remember Shanks heard Luffy wanting to be PK from Luffy...thats what he said to Raleigh...as to were Luffy got info on PK then its a pirate age and PK would be aspiration to any wannabe pirate IMO.

deffkryz
June 26, 2010, 04:17 PM
LOLWUT... o_O I wonder why Oda made Zoro count "580 ... 581"... Those were the last two chapters that show the present time of One Piece. A hint? But what for?


Maybe as a hint, that actually Zoro comes to Amazon Lily?

Or maybe Oda is going to show us some "aftermath"?

undertoe
June 26, 2010, 04:28 PM
LOLWUT... o_O I wonder why Oda made Zoro count "580 ... 581"... Those were the last two chapters that show the present time of One Piece. A hint? But what for?


Maybe as a hint, that actually Zoro comes to Amazon Lily?

Or maybe Oda is going to show us some "aftermath"?


Maybe Oda is hinting how close Zoro is getting to the current chapter... I.e. foreshadowing his return to come soon.

chess4
June 26, 2010, 04:41 PM
i think next chapter we will see WB getting buried. the red hairs, the WB pirates, crocodile, mr 1, the new buggy pirates(including mr 1), along with the 43 NW pirate crews will be present. we have already seen what the heart pirates invonov, inazuma, jinbei, and the fruity bunch are doing.

garp might even show up, but im sure we will see him in a very sad state for watching his boys get manhandled. we will probably get to see what the BB's are up to and hopefully we get to see doflamingo reporting to the gorousei after he kills moria, and if we are lucky, the last page might be strawhat sighting

Arkadi
June 26, 2010, 04:55 PM
we should think a bit further x d i think something very diffrent will hapen, probably what dragon is doing, or we will see the current sabo or we will probably see something very diffrent is my guess

chess4
June 26, 2010, 05:11 PM
we should think a bit further x d i think something very diffrent will hapen, probably what dragon is doing, or we will see the current sabo or we will probably see something very diffrent is my guess

oda has done a great job with sabo. at this point it is 50/50 he could be dead or alive. i dont think oda would just reveal him like that. i think if he is alive, we will see him appear before luffy for his coming out party.

JetPistol
June 26, 2010, 07:58 PM
so that was good job pointing out zoro counting 580 and 581 and from what i got so far 580- shows tashigi which is of significance to zoro and the title of 581 is "the future draws near". as we all know this weeks chapter is the last of the flashback chapters, so GG oda for sneaking that bit in there?

mister69
June 26, 2010, 08:24 PM
I definitely think sabos is the one being treated

and my prediction: luffy will learn how to use haki from the amazons :) and some fishman karate from the whale guy :)