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View Full Version : Question Why does WG tolerate the Tenryubitto?



madmotoristmonk
June 23, 2010, 05:36 PM
Seriously, they have absolutely no value whatsoever.

i get that they're the " decendents of the people who created the WG " or somesuch nonsense, but that doesn't explain anything. how much sense doesn't it make? oh let me count the ways...

1) they have no combat/ military strength: they've shown so far to be ineffective in fights. relying heavily on weapons and showing no constitution. yeah i know Luffy pretty much FAWKIN PAWNCHD! Charlos, and Ussop's "Sure Kill- Bodonka-Donk Drop" put them out and were quite devestating but still.

being so weak i know thats not their value to the WG (world government for those not in the know)

2) we never get anything in the sense that they actually contribute to the WG, sure they have lots of money, but i don't get the feeling they give that money away.

and to be honest i think if the WG was that hard-up for cash they'd just have Akainu put a fist through somebodys chest, ya know your standard extortion pratice.

seriouslly, what do these guys have that the WG can't just take from them? This is a group that enslaves entire countries that don't ally with them. if its some kinda asset they posses then why not take it?

i know they tried playing nice with Iceberg at first, but then they sent Lucci and Co. in to ensure they'd get it one way or another.

3) I understand they've got the old blood, maybe thats got something to do with it....but i doubt it. really they're just loads

now somebody may say that they have secrets that could ruin the WG, my rebuttle?

"Akianu! handle my lightweight"

if somebody got something that i obviously missed i'd be happy to hear it. ever since they're appearance i've been curious as to why the WG lets them get away with anything.

and the argument : "'cause they're the decendents of the twenty kings" is just as pointless, not from a moral point of view. Pragmatically speaking unless these losers actually power the Posieden/Pluton i can't justify them having the power they do.

remember, this is the WG. They pretty much pulled a Deathstar on a city because they "knew the name of the old kingdom"

Dasbones
June 23, 2010, 06:42 PM
The Gorousei are the highest form of tenryubuto, if I remember correctly.

But I'm sure there is an ulterior motive as to why they are allowed to act the way they do, other than lineage, even though the WG and Marines seem to take lineage pretty seriously.

bittman
June 23, 2010, 09:15 PM
Well it's really that the Tenryuubito are the highest level of royalty. In some parts of our world, royalty is still around, and can be quite influential.

Royalty only decreased in our world when information spread and people realised that God would not strike you down if you disrespected a king. However, even with this realisation, some royals were still smart enough to keep their army loyal to them.

In One Piece: most likely, though we've seen some scandalous Tenryuubito, they are not all like that. Even then, control of information can be quite a powerful thing, and for all we know outside of isolated incidents (and Shabondy), their "evil" is not known.

I honestly think it's about 50% lineage and 50% ability to run the World Government. If the Gorousei are, as anticipated, also Tenryuubito, then really they are also politicians in some sense.

OdaForPresident
June 24, 2010, 07:55 AM
I agree, they probably have major political power. As the "creators of the world" they must have a lot of pull with the gorousei, I would't be surprised if the Tenryuubito elected the world government. They might also be the head of state and the gorousei could be the ministers. Like in Holland, the queen here is the head of state but doesn't actually run the country.

Fox666
June 24, 2010, 02:22 PM
Simply, the World Government is not a democracy, it is the union of different kingdoms. And nobles exists the same way they used to in real life kingdoms.

Drmke
June 24, 2010, 02:32 PM
Yeah I'm pretty much restating what other have said, but its the same way armies have tolerated their kings and queens for thousands of years even if they are rotten. Though, if they become too rotten the people rebel. Which leads me to believe, like bittman said, they aren't all quite as bad as we have seen or are at least smarter than the ones we've seen.

If they were all just unbelievable horrible to everyone of "lower status", I'd find it hard to believe the WG would allow them to constantly act the way they do unless the upper class of the Tenryubitto are running the WG. Plus, even though I'm sure at least the vast majority feel they are superior to everyone else, I'm betting there are plenty that hide that and act nice to the people while secretly causing harm to them. I dunno, seems like a fun plot Oda would run with.

kkck
June 24, 2010, 02:41 PM
Seriously, they have absolutely no value whatsoever.

i get that they're the " decendents of the people who created the WG " or somesuch nonsense, but that doesn't explain anything. how much sense doesn't it make? oh let me count the ways...

1) they have no combat/ military strength: they've shown so far to be ineffective in fights. relying heavily on weapons and showing no constitution. yeah i know Luffy pretty much FAWKIN PAWNCHD! Charlos, and Ussop's "Sure Kill- Bodonka-Donk Drop" put them out and were quite devestating but still.

being so weak i know thats not their value to the WG (world government for those not in the know)

2) we never get anything in the sense that they actually contribute to the WG, sure they have lots of money, but i don't get the feeling they give that money away.

and to be honest i think if the WG was that hard-up for cash they'd just have Akainu put a fist through somebodys chest, ya know your standard extortion pratice.

seriouslly, what do these guys have that the WG can't just take from them? This is a group that enslaves entire countries that don't ally with them. if its some kinda asset they posses then why not take it?

i know they tried playing nice with Iceberg at first, but then they sent Lucci and Co. in to ensure they'd get it one way or another.

3) I understand they've got the old blood, maybe thats got something to do with it....but i doubt it. really they're just loads

now somebody may say that they have secrets that could ruin the WG, my rebuttle?

"Akianu! handle my lightweight"

if somebody got something that i obviously missed i'd be happy to hear it. ever since they're appearance i've been curious as to why the WG lets them get away with anything.

and the argument : "'cause they're the decendents of the twenty kings" is just as pointless, not from a moral point of view. Pragmatically speaking unless these losers actually power the Posieden/Pluton i can't justify them having the power they do.

remember, this is the WG. They pretty much pulled a Deathstar on a city because they "knew the name of the old kingdom"

Well, why in the world would people and military in the middle ages tolerate authoritarism and feudalism? Simple, they could simply believe the ones in charge have an inherent right to be there and do as they please. It's so absurd, yet so beautifully simple.....

Now, we don't know why exactly these people stand where they stand. At the moment, I do not think there is much to it, they simply are there because the legal system allows them to. Perhaps at the very top there is someone who actually controls the whole thing and is indeed a noble. Perhaps the nobles know the location of the ancient weapons.... Who knows....

Razh
June 24, 2010, 03:30 PM
Tenryuubito are the World Government. That's pretty much it.

DLord.Van.Buuren
June 24, 2010, 03:32 PM
this question is actually deep , it might sound obvious but if the WG is trying to offer justice , isnt what the tenryuubito are doing , slavery , murder , isnt that something completly unjust ?

k-dom
June 24, 2010, 04:03 PM
Tenryubito are not the world government. In fact we don't know what influence they have on it. Like some said they could elect them but from the 3 we have seen so far, they did not seem to be much politicians rather than parasites with a huge amount of money.

I'm more thinking that they are related with the void century. Maybe they know one of the ancient weapon location or something similar.

Poneglyph420
June 24, 2010, 04:12 PM
Well the WG was created by the ancestors of the tenryuubito, so the rest of the world has to kinda just deal with it. Beyond that since they set the tone of what "justice" is under their regime.. it's just the way it is..

They don't seem like the governing types.. more like aristocracy or medieval nobility..


But I do wonder on the role of the Gorousei..
Are they elder members of the founding families?? or promoted officials?
They technically rule the WG, but it's a weird balance of power.....

Kind of a sick commentary on our world actually....
But that's another story..........

Bloodwinter
June 24, 2010, 04:23 PM
This question is actually deep. It might sound obvious, but if the World Government is trying to offer justice, isn't what the Tenryuubito are doing: slavery, murder, isn't that something completely unjust?

Oh the World Government is well aware of the goings-on of what the Tenryuubito are doing on Saboady Archipelago (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/04/). See they can't really shut the business itself down because it is run by their very own Shichibukai Donquixote Doflamingo. They get a large cut of whatever profit he makes for himself so long as they don't interfere with his actions.

They are Royalty, that's basically it. Royalty are above the law and on the political chain are higher than even Sengoku. The Marines hold no power over them.

Razh
June 24, 2010, 05:04 PM
this question is actually deep , it might sound obvious but if the WG is trying to offer justice , isnt what the tenryuubito are doing , slavery , murder , isnt that something completly unjust ?

Ohara, Tequila Wolf... Look it up. It was all under the authority of World Government. It tried to instate peace and order, but under it's own terms, and often, the countries and kingdoms don't have any choice but to join.

Also, come on people. World Government was created by Ancestors of today's Tenryuubito. It would be pretty naive to think that they are just some people that live in nice houses in Mariejoia and they can keep slaves. It's obvious that they have an enormous influence and it's probably more than just symbolic.

And yeah, some of them are probably like that retard Charlos who just collects slaves and stuff and some of them probably deal with the more serious matters. Like this Saint Jalmack guy who was on some kind of diplomatic mission for World Government. How could he do that if he doesn't hold any kind of authority?

k-dom
June 25, 2010, 12:27 PM
Well most of the royal family nowadays are just representatives and have no real political power (Elizabeth II for example). Also I don't see them as medieval nobles, more like the Versailles types, where only a few of them had political power and the vast majority was only a court of people with privileges provided by birth and oblivious of ordinary people real life

BetaRuler
June 25, 2010, 04:06 PM
I would just call it an upper class system.

It's often said in our current world, 95% of the wealth is owned by 5% of the people... I'd put this similarly to One Piece... The Upperclass run in families, their probably grown up and taught how to rule the world, and only some of them actually gain those positions, the best being the Gorousei say
The rest probably get allowances that are ridiculous and then they can go manage it however they like! Either in hobbies or they get involved in businesses to keep themselves financially in power!

It seems other upperclass families behave quite monstrously too, even Sabo's family who are probably as powerful as any other member in the aution house (excluding the 10-buto), or the other upperclass members who shrieked about Hachi's presence saying "it might have touched me! i hear they carry diseases!"... They all behave appalingly.

I think Oda's message might be something like "those with the money have the power, and they can do whatever they like", it's sort of a truth that holds true to real life, but in this case he's just exagerating it a teeny bit!

Razh
June 25, 2010, 05:04 PM
I think Oda's message might be something like "those with the money have the power, and they can do whatever they like", it's sort of a truth that holds true to real life, but in this case he's just exagerating it a teeny bit!

Unlike with the rest of the manga. :P

It's not that much of an exaggeration though. There are and were some pretty deranged people on our planet.

I don't think we'll find out more about the Tenryuubitos' real influence until Dragon or some other revolutionary appears. If anyone should know much about them, it's their worst enemy.

ibi
August 16, 2010, 12:55 PM
why do the government in reality tolerate royal families

banemus
August 17, 2010, 07:29 AM
Well it's really that the Tenryuubito are the highest level of royalty. In some parts of our world, royalty is still around, and can be quite influential.

Royalty only decreased in our world when information spread and people realised that God would not strike you down if you disrespected a king. However, even with this realisation, some royals were still smart enough to keep their army loyal to them.

In One Piece: most likely, though we've seen some scandalous Tenryuubito, they are not all like that. Even then, control of information can be quite a powerful thing, and for all we know outside of isolated incidents (and Shabondy), their "evil" is not known.

I honestly think it's about 50% lineage and 50% ability to run the World Government. If the Gorousei are, as anticipated, also Tenryuubito, then really they are also politicians in some sense.

This is actually true.

When you think about history of our world. You should realize that kings in the old days were serious knights/warriors/etc. But the further you go to the present the weaker the descendants. Even in my country we have an old man as king but he still has some power and he is protected like crazy. The only reason he is king is because he is a descendant.

There used to be some real "evil" kings in our world. Thats how revolutions start. ;)

Maledicente
August 17, 2010, 11:02 AM
There used to be some real "evil" kings in our world. Thats how revolutions start. ;)

Dragon is considered the most dangerous criminal because he's a direct menace to Tenryuubito and it's monarchy. Common people know nothing of what's going on even in the real world, their only concerns are about their day to day lives. Opening their eyes is work of revolutionaries.

People allegiance lies within those who maintain the order where they live, be it pirates (like on WB's turfs) or Marines (all the blues).

IMO, the big question should be: why there aren't much signs of major dissatisfaction within the marines corporation, since a lot of them seem to uphold high moral standards and know about the Tenryuubito evil ways?

kkck
August 17, 2010, 11:17 AM
Maybe the tenryubito are simple also seen as nobles by the marines. If that is the case, then what we have seen makes perfect sense.

masubiladin
August 17, 2010, 04:38 PM
Oh the World Government is well aware of the goings-on of what the Tenryuubito are doing on Saboady Archipelago. See they can't really shut the business itself down because it is run by their very own Shichibukai Donquixote Doflamingo. They get a large cut of whatever profit he makes for himself so long as they don't interfere with his actions.

They are Royalty, that's basically it. Royalty are above the law and on the political chain are higher than even Sengoku. The Marines hold no power over them.
Wait...I thought that Slave-Trading place is in the possession of the Shichibukai Doflamingo

WickedNeko
August 17, 2010, 06:07 PM
Two things:

1) I wonder if there's a connection between Dragon and Tenryuubito beyond simple "rebel vs government". IIRC, Tenryuubito translates to "People of Heaven's Dragon"... so what we're seeing is war fermenting between two dragons. It's just a wild guess, but isn't it possible that Dragon was a former Tenryuubito?

2) From what we've seen of world in One Piece, national governments tend to be corrupt. You have cases like Albaster with good king, but vast majority of royalties presented on other islands seem to be pretty corrupt (human auction was attended by people with crowns, after all... and let's not forget kings like Walpo from ice / snow land or nobles from Luffy's home island). Sure, Tenryuubito may seem worthless, but they're not acting all that differently from any other royalty, all things considered. Perhaps they may seem more cruel, but that's simply because they have more power. If any other royal family had similar power, you can be sure that they'd be doing similar things.

Spam286
August 17, 2010, 06:14 PM
Tradition, at least that's my best bet. Never underestimate the power of people to do something purely because that's what they've always done. Britain's always had a monarch so we still do, even though she serves no governmental purpose other than, again, traditional and ceremonial ones.

Besides it seems they rarely leave the holy land, so most of their ridiculous decadence has zero effect on your average member state of the WG. They only cause problems, and minor ones at that in the grand scheme of things, in Marejoa and Shabondy where people already expect it.

SharpKnives
August 17, 2010, 06:56 PM
Firstly I wouldn't be surprised if a few of them were genius combatants... they have the money and the blood to become so. Just like how one of the tenryubito was the captain of his own ship I can see the tenryubito commanding large militant operations. I mean every one needs to do things for a living.

Secondly there valued on a little thing called respect. You better believe they're ancestors made sure there sons and son's sons and there daughters were to be taken care of. Not to mention there blood is the starting point for the most powerful organization in the world. This makes them important and respect worthy. Don't get me wrong you can be damn sure again if hard times comes the government will abandon them like a shit from yesterday.

karthikmurs
August 17, 2010, 08:00 PM
Well, the military has always watched the back of the bureaucrats. Tenryu are obviously the highest political power in the world. So, watching their back is obviously a logical outcome.

DLord.Van.Buuren
August 17, 2010, 08:05 PM
why do the government in reality tolerate royal families

Oda's approach consists of reflecting the sorrows of the real world into his manga, its what makes the story that good while there is a fine line between reality and manga still the theme is always there.

madmotoristmonk
August 18, 2010, 05:00 PM
i like the consensu we're getting here about them just being nobility thats still being respected.

but at the same time, i keep thinking theres something else to it. This is the same World Government that'll blow your island up for just knowing the name of an island from the void century. (albiet "somewhat" remorsefully..unless your akainu)

seriouslly, the only way i'll be able to justify the tenryubito is if they hold some kind of precious information. or are able to do something with those ancient weapons. they seem to hold no real power outside of being incredibly wealthy. and really like i said, if the WG really wanted their money they'd get somebody to shake those losers down.

i guess i'll have to wait for oda to elaborate on the why

kkck
August 19, 2010, 12:27 PM
I think the issue with the tenryubitto is that people seem to think society in OP is far more reasonable than what it actually is. We usually don´t see the deep political affairs which go by, oda by the most part just shows us the surface and lighter side of things. Lets go back to luffy´s hometown. The place was virtually separated by nobles and whatever else is left. There was a small happy town on the side but they were not nearly as well of as the nobles. Or lets take vivi´s country. Even if the royal family are good leaders who care for their people, it is still a monarchy where it´d seemed there is no democrazy to be found (even if people do seem to have a great degree of personal freedom). As we saw in the wapol saga, the people are subjected to the will of kings to a great degree. If wapol said something, the royal army would make sure it got done one way or the other. People are by all intents and purposes bent to the authority of the king, whether for good (vivi and her family) or worst (wapol). The world government seems to be a huge organization made of many individual kingdoms with their own political structure, nobles, kings or whatever other political leaders. In this sense, the creators of the WG, the ancesters of the tenryubitto would be people who founded an organization which had kings below them. Nations might have their own nobles but the tenryubitto would be above that. They are nobles not of petty nations but of the entire world given that the world government has kings and nations under it.