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Zeltrax
June 26, 2010, 12:33 AM
I've been wondering and pondering over it for a long time.
From the latest chapter we can confirm that he knows that he's weak and he will want to get stronger.
Many have said that he will try to learn Haki or King Haki.
But that said, is it really enough? Although we have no idea what King haki can really do, but Hancock, one of the rare humans who can use it doesn't seem to be very strong, during the war at least.
Besides, knowing Oda, is he really going to pull a training arc and give luffy something predictable?
what about zoro and sanji?
I'm sure luffy needs haki, but I'm thinking of other alternatives.
Anyone thinking the same?

BetaRuler
June 26, 2010, 02:37 AM
He could eat some runner beans...

Devil vegetables =D? *gets booted from forums* XD


I think Haki is becoming the only option we can predict... Unless anyone with a decent idea of rubber properties in science can theorise another attack (similar to the gears) that Luffy might pull... Similarly, we could also list different uses for Rubber in our world that we could theorise new moves for Luffy (even if their stupid they might make good practical uses when you think about it)

Hamy
June 26, 2010, 02:44 AM
Well giving Luffy haki isn't so much predictable as it is inevitable given how much emphasis has been placed on it by those who've experienced his raw haki. More importantly haki one way or another allows for better defense and offense, as well as a way to hit the logia (all of which are things he'll need to fight the stronger enemies).

A new fighting style or moves incorporating haki would be something he could add to his repertoire. As for Zoro and Sanji... not sure D: (since I think avoiding giving them a Devil Fruit would be the best route since that is what makes them so great) but from the separation we do know they do have some sort of power up. Zoro learning how to hit ghosts, which could apply to Logia users, and Sanji may have learned Okama style fighting (speaking of Okama isn't the Okama island close by the Amazon lily island so think Sanji will be meeting up with Luffy soon?).

Fox666
June 26, 2010, 02:50 AM
He could eat some runner beans...

Devil vegetables =D? *gets booted from forums* XD


I think Haki is becoming the only option we can predict... Unless anyone with a decent idea of rubber properties in science can theorise another attack (similar to the gears) that Luffy might pull... Similarly, we could also list different uses for Rubber in our world that we could theorise new moves for Luffy (even if their stupid they might make good practical uses when you think about it)Good question... Gears are heat based, I can imagine Luffy launching fireballs... or making his skin harder...

Razh
June 26, 2010, 05:17 AM
I don't think Haki is the answer to all of his problems.

First, he needs more physical strength, to the point where he can use Soru outside of Gear 2, for example.
His battle style could also use some tweaking. He's a brawler, to put it simple, fights with his own style, accommodated to his devil fruit. What he really could use is some refined skill which he could incorporate into his arsenal. First thing that comes to my mind is fishman karate. I'm really starting to like the idea of Jinbei being a mentor of sorts. Being an experienced fighter, really strong, fast and mobile and durable, Luffy could pick up some new skills real easy.

frontaLobotomy
June 26, 2010, 05:43 AM
Luffy's strength will continue to increase as the story progresses. His haki will continue to manifest it self outside of his control for the most part, but won't be a significant factor until he has to fight people who he is currently unable to beat ie; Smoker, Admirals, Teach, Sentomaru. He needs to train his DF powers more in the meantime. Kizaru remarked that Luffy was too slow in activating Gear 2, that is something he needs to either work on, or develop his strength so that he doesn't need Gear 2 to move using Soru, and hit his opponents with the power of his jet techniques. As Razh said, Jinbei might be his sparring partner for a bit, and that would be something I'd be happy to see. Given Jinbei fought Ace to a stalemate, it would give us a reasonable measure of what strength Ace had before he died, and how much stronger Luffy needs to get just to match it.

msg
June 26, 2010, 11:26 AM
What luffy needs is his Haki, a new gear, mastery of rokushikis including rokuougan and jimbei's fishman karate....and also some luvin' from boa hancock's ^.You know every strong man theres a woman out there behind him kinda of thing.All that could make Luffy near invicible.That'll be something...
Out of topic - do you think Luffy will loose his virginity at the age of 18?

*edit* Luffy also need his nakama and friends for support and encouragement.

ScratchmenApoo
June 26, 2010, 12:44 PM
I believe Oda has saved up the best incredible rubber-attacks for this moment.
Considering his imagination, we're in for something spectacular.

For example, I don't think we've yet seen a rubber ball bouncing off walls at incredible speed, like a giant bullet of some sort, hitting hundreds of enemies or just one multiple times. This would be a great attack for indoors. It would be very similar to Bellamy's movement (before he got owned by Luffy). I'm confident that Oda will surprise us with at least one genius move.

Also, I think Fishman Karate can only be used by fishmen, hence the name. If ordinary humans could use it, it wouldn't have much point being that special.

Now, onto Rokushiki...
If you combine Shigan with Gatling Gun, what do you get ?
The closest thing to a real machine gun in the One Piece world.
There's only one problem with that - Luffy's fingers are also rubber, so no matter what speed, they probably cannot penetrate humans.
Besides, I don't see any Rokushiki user coming into contact with Luffy in the near future. Maybe Coby, but that's highly unlikely.

And Haki, everything has already been said. Luffy will probably ask for help (either from Hancock or Jimbei) to improve his Haki. He must have understood that he possesses this kind of power by now. If not, then he obviously doesn't want to get stronger...

DARK
June 26, 2010, 01:03 PM
Luffy has the Haki, but he cannot use it willingly.
As of right now, it's difficult to say how Luffy will become stronger.
Maybe Jinbei or Hancock will end up training him?

bopnoh10
June 26, 2010, 01:50 PM
I think that Jimbei spars with him and Hancock joins the crew and works with him to master his Haki. However, I do think that Oda throws in a few surprises with maybe a 4th gear... heating of rubber to harden it or the formation of polymers?

Razh
June 26, 2010, 02:05 PM
Also, I think Fishman Karate can only be used by fishmen, hence the name. If ordinary humans could use it, it wouldn't have much point being that special.
Well, I think that's where you're wrong. Jinbei is not a Jedi or something, with some special powers. His punches and kicks are the same as any mans when he fights on land. There's no reason why Luffy couldn't pick up on the principle and learn some special moves.

As for manipulating sea water, like Jinbei did, I'd have to agree. No man could ever do that, simply because of physiology. Humans have no fins and swim skins between their fingers.

ScratchmenApoo
June 26, 2010, 03:57 PM
Well, I think that's where you're wrong. Jinbei is not a Jedi or something, with some special powers. His punches and kicks are the same as any mans when he fights on land. There's no reason why Luffy couldn't pick up on the principle and learn some special moves.

As for manipulating sea water, like Jinbei did, I'd have to agree. No man could ever do that, simply because of physiology. Humans have no fins and swim skins between their fingers.

Exactly as you say, his punches and kicks are the same as any mans, they only have more phsyical power and there's nothing more for Luffy to learn IMO.

However, I believe that Fishman physiology allows Fishman Karate users to come up with incredible techniques like that space-time warping punch Jimbei used against Impel Down guards during breakout. Something like that requires not only Merman physiology, but good knowledge, maybe unteachable to someone as scrawny as Luffy.

Dark God Zeus
June 27, 2010, 01:18 PM
Some Paramecia affect their environment and surroudnings (Like doa doa no mi) and some have the user affect the user directly (Luffy). Then some effect both, like Moria. Maybe Luffy will learn to rubberize his environment

1. Rubberizing the ground in front of him to utilize as a shield.
2. Making a rubberized arena to jump around in
3. Make a landing pad to reduce damage.

undertoe
June 27, 2010, 01:48 PM
^In what situation would ground be "in front of him"? The others are things he can already do with just a rubber body.

Uriel
June 27, 2010, 03:48 PM
Well, as was said Haki will come and He's on the right place to do it.

And maybe Luffy will make his own version of Fishman Karate. I know that It's meant for Fishman only and allowed by their physic properties, but Luffy has an advantage due to his Gomu Gomu no Mi. If He can start using his punches more controlled and whip-alike he will be able to cover not only a higher area but also to make use of the force generated by stretching and "going back to normal" of the rubber. More if He learns to do it continually (one hit that works as negative force of the next one, if you get what I mean)

Razh
June 27, 2010, 04:08 PM
More if He learns to do it continually (one hit that works as negative force of the next one, if you get what I mean)

Gomu gomuuu noooo YOYO!!!

BetaRuler
June 27, 2010, 04:26 PM
See... I think Fishman karate is rightly made to be a type of Karate that gives advantage to people UNDERWATER, fishman karate users seem to be at their best underwater, so it wouldn't do Luffy a lot of good to learn such moves above land... Darnit Luffy needs LAND LUBBER KARATE!

Do any of you think Luffy could do with a weapon? Or maybe an accessory? Something that augments his fruit powers? OR ask Basil to restructure him... I'm trying to inspire theories here XD... Are there any other elements that can effect Rubber (Like the heat vulcanization effect he does in gears 2 or whatever it is the science people call it)?

darkfiend
June 27, 2010, 05:24 PM
I think Luffy has enough strength in his punches, he just needs to strengthen his body so that he can stand soru etc
Realy I think he needs to refine his technique and cut out the weaknesses in his style, a way to do this would be to string his attacks together to a greater degree or cut out the negatives with gear 2 and 3. I could also say that gear 3 needs to be used at different degrees, for example rather than pumping his hand up to giant proportions he could just pump it half way and this way he could keep a lot of his speed.

Obviously haki is going to be important for him, but i dont think he will get training, it will come naturally

Uriel
June 27, 2010, 05:56 PM
Gomu gomuuu noooo YOYO!!!
Exactly my point! A human Yo-Yo. Incredible destructive. <3

Deo_df
June 27, 2010, 11:33 PM
I thought that the progression of gears would be like a car, so he was always goin to get gear 4th and gear 5th, 6th would depend on if oda drives a sports car?

4th will be along the lines of nightmare luffy where his whole body is inflated so he is the size of a giant and can fight like normal but this time as a giant. Gear 5th will be gear 4th combined with gear 2nd to have a super fast giant, but it will have a draw back as if you compress air it's supper powerful but the air will deflate and luffy will gradually shrink.

I don't think haki will be taught, I think he will just become stronger and it will leak out like garp. Probably to the point where it manifests so that you can actually see it. But because he is stronger luffy will just think that those guys he couldn't hurt before like smoker can only be hurt with really powerful hits.

Razh
June 28, 2010, 03:04 AM
See... I think Fishman karate is rightly made to be a type of Karate that gives advantage to people UNDERWATER, fishman karate users seem to be at their best underwater, so it wouldn't do Luffy a lot of good to learn such moves above land... Darnit Luffy needs LAND LUBBER KARATE!


Do I really need to link Jinbei kicking ass on land panels for you to admit that fishman karate isn't useless on land? Like when Jinbei blew away dozen guards without touching them, or when he pwnt Moria.

Jinbei is probably 10 times stronger in the water, but he's still stronger than most of the people on land. I don't see why Luffy couldn't learn some special punches and kicks, maybe even developing his own versions, thanks to his devil fruit.

hibar90
June 28, 2010, 03:46 AM
If luffy get any stronger apart from haki, is to get a new rubber ability (gomugomu nuclear strike, gomugomu laser beam) or fighting stance/style that compliments being a rubber man. I always thought the 4th gear is going to be like at thriller bark. He will combine both 2nd and 3rd gear. 5th will be something even greater. Maybe he could train his body to withstand this combination and possibly 5th gear. I assume nightmare moria is as able as kuma and top tier shici in direct battle. Thus 5th gear can be some moves to defeat top shichi like doflamingo or even admiral (i would assume he would need 6th gear lol).

deffkryz
June 28, 2010, 07:50 AM
Luffy won't gain any usable strength from developing more "gears" on his DF ability but combining Gear 2 and Gear 3. Those may look nice for fans and work out on some enemies - but they won't have any use of harming neither Kuma nor the admirals nor any other logia user.

Luffy has to get this "Oops. My enemy is a logia, so there's no way I can hit him. Why is that so? Oh cr*p!!! *panicking* Gonna lose everyone!!! Gear 2 all out no matter what!!!!" out of his head. And that is the key to gain the strength he needs: Understanding haki basics and thus regain his self esteem.

Just look up each fight Luffy had against a Logia user. He attacked by his bare fists, used Gear 2 and tools - everything failed (not counting Enel since it was explained why Luffy could actually smack him.). Gear 2 was developed to use against Aokiji. But Luffy apparently failed to understand that Gear 2 can't do anything against Logias that's why he attacked Smoker with it - and only hit a dust cloud.

Goos
June 28, 2010, 04:47 PM
I don't know if it is me, but what have been bothering me is:

During this arc, it is pretty clear in the Flashback that Luffy is currently 17 years old. However, in the movie "Strong World" there was a note from Oda that said:
"This story is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old so watch it over and over again!" (You guys can see it here: http://mangahelpers.com/news/details/292)

Anyway, the point is: If that was Luffy's last adventure as a 17 years old and the crew was already with him, then that must have happened after this arc and Luffy have not showed any new hability and there was any new crew member. Again, is just me, or that bother you guys too?

Cheers,

Mandala
June 28, 2010, 09:24 PM
If its a 4th gear. Then the only thing I can think of is, something like the process of Vulcanization. Oda is always taking breaks in order to do "research". I think part of that fact, plays in to how diverse and almost to a certain extent, scientific his imagination is.
Wikipedia, says this about rubber;

Natural rubber is often vulcanized, a process by which the rubber is heated and sulfur, peroxide or bisphenol are added to improve resilience and elasticity, and to prevent it from perishing...Carbon black is often used as an additive to rubber to improve its strength, especially in vehicle tires.

That and a control over his Haki.

Poneglyph420
June 28, 2010, 10:04 PM
Luffy has gotten the best lesson ever. So more than anything I think all his loss has mentally prepared him to progress. Maybe now he can begin to realize more about his Haki, and how to harness it. Pretty much a given at this point IMO. Beyond that Luffy will really need to become stronger and tougher than he is now. I also think a key to this is the realization of his limits. During the war Luffy showed small glimpses of enhanced awareness at key moments. So I'd hope that as he gets stronger, he will also become more clever (including with his DF)

I'd really like to see Luffy learn to "vulcanize" his rubber, making his attacks far more deadly as well. But I'm sure there will be more gears in the manga... Just when...

and maybe drink milk.

cheaptrick
June 29, 2010, 03:12 AM
as someone already said, I think Luffy may get some training sessions from Hancock and Jimbei, they are the two only technicians among the shichibukai afterall (well there's mihawk too but there's no way luffy could learn swordmanship) so it's a rare chance to learn some high level stuff

BlackHair
June 29, 2010, 10:52 AM
I only could see him learning haki. Aside from that everything will be on his own again. Though of course similar to Gear 2, he could learn from other techniques and change it to rubber style.

But honestly, I still don't see any trainings arc. Nor he asking anyone about haki and stuff.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 03, 2010, 12:31 PM
It is really obvious that he will deffinetly learn haki, but also it will be good for him not to learn some new moves with his DF, but learn Rokushiki to the extent of Kakku or even of Rob Lucci. It will be really devastating power, cause it will double or triple the damaga that he can inflict. So in combination with haki he can be in this case a Yonkou level.

ScratchmenApoo
July 03, 2010, 01:14 PM
It is really obvious that he will deffinetly learn haki, but also it will be good for him not to learn some new moves with his DF, but learn Rokushiki to the extent of Kakku or even of Rob Lucci. It will be really devastating power, cause it will double or triple the damaga that he can inflict. So in combination with haki he can be in this case a Yonkou level.

Luffy doesn't want to be a Yonkou anyway, he wants to become Pirate King, those are just people he's going to beat..
Maybe even Shanks, eventually...

How will Luffy get stronger?
He will mature mentally and not strike randomly with only aggression like he's used to.
He will start using good tactics (I can see him ricocheting punches at walls that hit the enemy afterwards, for one example).
We also saw some progression at that side when he was fighting Mihawk - he actually thought ahead a little. This will be a trend in his future battles.
He's always thought to be stupid and even oblivious sometimes, but I see him growing over that, especially now, after Ace's death, he WILL change his fighting style.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 03, 2010, 01:36 PM
Luffy doesn't want to be a Yonkou anyway, he wants to become Pirate King, those are just people he's going to beat..
Maybe even Shanks, eventually...
Yeah, I know that his goal is to be Pirate King, but first he needs to become Yonlou level to crush strong opponents and obviously Yonkous, strong New World Pirates and top tier Marines.


He will start using good tactics (I can see him ricocheting punches at walls that hit the enemy afterwards, for one example).
In fact he used this strategy once.:) It was in the fight against Enel. In fact I don't think it will be useful for him if he fights in team.


We also saw some progression at that side when he was fighting Mihawk - he actually thought ahead a little. This will be a trend in his future battles.
He's always thought to be stupid and even oblivious sometimes, but I see him growing over that, especially now, after Ace's death, he WILL change his fighting style.
In fact it is not powering up, but maturing. But I really agrre with you.:)
Though it is obvious that he didn't think that much during his previous battles, because he was unexperienced teenager.

hy4k
July 03, 2010, 05:32 PM
i think he needs haki at the minimum

he needs to improve his fighting skill, and i think garp is the only bare knuckle fighter with enoiugh abillity to help him do this. maybe dragon, as he's probably a bare knuckle fighter and he's in much better shape than garp

he also needs more uses of his devil fruit. i thought he could use it to become practically intangible, like a really gooey/flexible form of rubber. he could also use it to become very hard and malleable, maybe forming weapons out of his arms )like the videogame prototype)

Dasbones
July 03, 2010, 05:41 PM
He isn't a Rubber logia, whatever his body just happens to have the properties of rubber, not that his body is actually rubber, otherwise he would have melted multiple times. If anything he needs to learn to harness his Haki, incorporate it into his regular moves, and try to wean himself off of Gear 2, since that will catch up to him eventually.

Poneglyph420
July 15, 2010, 01:31 PM
Drink. More. Milk.

I really don't think someone like Roger went to future Pirate King Training and I'm really hoping that the same can be said for Luffy. Perhaps some might help Luffy realize the things instinct can't. I can see how Rayleigh and maybe Jinbei and Hancock (If she can ever speak to Luffy seriously) could also provide insight into a world Luffy needs to comprehend more fully. I also agree that Luffy will need to continue to grow stronger and develop his DF mastery as well as his understanding of Haki.... Especially his Haoushoku Haki.

But IMHO Luffy needs to get stonger on his own and grow through his own failures. If he just takes whatever help comes his way after one major defeat... then IMO he's destined to be like Buggy.
Even if someone offers to "train" Luffy I'd hope he'd refuse.. and say something like.. All I need is my crew...

quick_al
July 15, 2010, 10:20 PM
i think that he will get is haki, but it will be something completely different than anything every seen and i think it has to do with the will of D.. I think that he is going to resurface some kind of haki technique from the time of the great weapons and the missing 100 year history

elitefox
July 16, 2010, 02:11 AM
Ofcourse he will but...

At what time is the real question?
or
How much stronger will he be before and after crossing the red line.


I think also some of the rookies will be push back by the yonkou or have a taste of the bitter world of the new world.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 16, 2010, 06:26 AM
I think he will have a power up befo crossing Red Line.:) Because as it was stated by some characters he doesn't have the power that is needed to stay in the New World and protect his nakama.:)
Though I see him as the strongest among all the Supernovas, so I can't see how they will survive in the New World.

Eirok
July 17, 2010, 01:02 AM
A theory of mine is that maybe any1 can be like teach and gain 2 DF powers and maybe Luffy will get a second on top of his? with also Haki that he will learn over time..

BUT probably not but it would be cool what other DF power he would get to further enhance his original DF power

anaskr
July 18, 2010, 12:29 AM
luffy had enough i mean fighting and opponent with his hands or legs or the whole body... its too much now... he needs the haki to actually predict moves easily and dosn need to play around much with the opponent... the worst match was luffy vs lucci .. he just came out a winner in the last stage had he learnt haki by then he cud have easily beaten lucci !!! but this is like reality one has to learn over his own mistakes .. and i agree with the guyss above that he should learn haki by himself rather get trained by reyleigh or boa or anyone else.. . cuz then luffy would be like the persons who is the weakest yet strongest all cuz of his D status... or friends of friends or his own friends .... shanks saved him.. silver tried to save him.. dragon saved him. boa hancock saaved him... he should have been saved by zoro instead which cudn happen .. and this is such a bad move by ODA .. i mean he is the hero so ofcourse he will never die.. but he cant be supported by whoever he meets just like that .. its totally unfair... ODA needs to know even 19+age group people also watch this anime !!

other than that its the best manga/anime i have ever watched and i am never willing to watch any other untill this gets over!!