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Xsoteria
July 11, 2010, 05:48 PM
I was looking for this thread since I was sure I saw it, since I wanted to go and see what I voted, but the thread is nowhere to be found. So I figure, the thread was never there. If I missed it, feel free to delete/merge whatever. But I can't believe no one ever made this thread o_0

Battle conditions - Both are released, and can use whatever they were seen using. They have FKT all for themselves, no special conditions.

Random101
July 11, 2010, 05:57 PM
Starrk albeit barely for two reasons. First being that Energy attacks can get through to Barragon if there's simply too much to age away, which is basically Starrk's entire stick, and second the wolves are pretty much seemingly impervious to everything that was thrown at them.

Of course if he gets nailed in the chest at all it's over, which his speed may or may not help to cover, though who knows there. Were Barragon not a friggin moron I'd probably have said him, but Starrk has the tools to do it at his disposal, just doing the deed's going to be rough. I'd probably say tie, but I'm going to go with my gut and vote Starrk regardless.

Hystzen
July 11, 2010, 06:17 PM
if there no specail conditions does this affect there personality?...if so barragan goes up close n kills starrk easy coz he not toying with the enemy like he did with soi fon...

Xsoteria
July 11, 2010, 06:20 PM
I think I would've gone with Starrk for similar reasons you did (Random), although it would be really really tough.

But once I saw what an actual hit from Soi Fon's bankai did, I decided to go with Gramps. He could tank a blast like that, something I honestly doubt any of the espada could.

I just can't see Starrk doing enough damage even if wolves do get through and cause some damage. I think it would be a long and tedious fight, with ultimately one result, Bara catching up (he showed he can versus a very fast opponent) and ending the fight.

He's just too hax, IMO.

Hystzen
July 11, 2010, 06:24 PM
Barragan is haxed but kubo ruined him by his personailty...IMO only Yamma out of the gotei13 could kill him he that hax.

Aizen is most hax now tho with the whole if you dont believe his existance you die he dont even need to stab or draw a sword it hax like made.

bara would get injured by wolves but not that much maybe one or two would get him n look what one or two did to the vaizards not much damage.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
July 11, 2010, 10:02 PM
Starrk albeit barely for two reasons. First being that Energy attacks can get through to Barragon if there's simply too much to age away, which is basically Starrk's entire stick, and second the wolves are pretty much seemingly impervious to everything that was thrown at them.

Of course if he gets nailed in the chest at all it's over, which his speed may or may not help to cover, though who knows there. Were Barragon not a friggin moron I'd probably have said him, but Starrk has the tools to do it at his disposal, just doing the deed's going to be rough. I'd probably say tie, but I'm going to go with my gut and vote Starrk regardless.

Pretty much agreed, but went with tie, b/c if Stark and Barragan were truly on same lvl, (or rather same capacity to beat one another) I could see Aizen giving Barragan the number 2 as a spit in the face. Even though there is this whole yammy 0 business, the connotation of being second when your the god-king of hueco mundo must hurt. IF Barragan wasn't Toopid, he would undoubtedly be the strongest espada.

El Samurai Guapo
July 11, 2010, 10:53 PM
If Barragan can use sonido then he's seriously one deadly motherf...r (not that he already isn't). I would have liked to see him use gran caida in combat as well. I'm going to go with a tie.

freshseth83
July 11, 2010, 11:53 PM
I think every espada can use sonido. Even Nnoitra did it. I picked Starrk, only because he knows he's #1 and he's that for a reason. If Aizen had faith in him with splitting his soul into pieces and using it as a weapon, I'd say he could get that in with a hit on barragan. Not sure if he could age he souls/wolves enough to stop them. Even Soi-Fon's bankai made some contact. He couldn't stop that completely. I doubt he could stop Starrks ability completely either.

BaddAzzKenpachi74
July 12, 2010, 12:16 PM
wen't with Stark aka spam master lol.
to put it simply i believe Stark's certain "abilities" would be to much for barragan
1.INCREDIBLE long range attakcs "wolves and 1000 ceros"
2.Top class Speed "he is most likely one of the fasest characters shown in bleach"
and
3.Battle Intelligence "he figured out Shunsui's and Ukitake's shikai's out pretty damn fast".
all these things is what puts Stark over Barragan IMHO

ryanzokuken
July 12, 2010, 08:59 PM
Barragan.


everything gets aged. ceros will rot away just like kido did. Stark can't land a hit.
if he does magically, it won't matter. Barragan survived Soi Fon's bankai. Stark probably hasn't got anything with that kind of power. and even if he does...Barragan was missing half his head. how else can Barragan be killed aside from the way he was? :p his own power.

Barragan>Stark.

Nicholas.Sama
July 12, 2010, 09:11 PM
Despite the rankings. everything I saw goes in Barragan's favor. He has terrifying speed just like Starrk as seen here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/16/

Barragan can literally kill in one touch. I think he can touch Starrk once.

damane08
July 13, 2010, 01:32 AM
Despite the rankings. everything I saw goes in Barragan's favor. He has terrifying speed just like Starrk as seen here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/16/

Barragan can literally kill in one touch. I think he can touch Starrk once.


lets take that statement into consideration:

we know that Barragan had not released his sword yet, if you say that his speed at that time was the same as a released Starrk then you would also be saying that when he releases he should be faster than Starrk, considering the boost in speed that he would receive from releasing.

Don't assume that because he got behind someone kneeling on the ground right in front of him while he was talking means that he is as fast as Starrk.

There's no way that they don't know each other's powers (espada i mean) simply because there was absolutely no surprise on their faces when they released (of course this is just an assumption) but you can't tell me that Starrk doesn't know Barragan's power and vice-versa.

the only type of attack we know that can deal considerable damage to Barragan is the same type of attack that Starrk does best (although after watching the anime, they don't seem that powerful to me. they seemed a lot more powerful in the manga imo, Cero Metralleta i mean) and i doubt that Cero Metralleta will have that much effect on Barragan.

the wolves seem very powerful though, so they might be able to cause some damage.

Conclusion: i have no idea who would win.

ryanzokuken
July 13, 2010, 06:54 AM
lets take that statement into consideration:

we know that Barragan had not released his sword yet, if you say that his speed at that time was the same as a released Starrk then you would also be saying that when he releases he should be faster than Starrk, considering the boost in speed that he would receive from releasing.

Don't assume that because he got behind someone kneeling on the ground right in front of him while he was talking means that he is as fast as Starrk.

There's no way that they don't know each other's powers (espada i mean) simply because there was absolutely no surprise on their faces when they released (of course this is just an assumption) but you can't tell me that Starrk doesn't know Barragan's power and vice-versa.

the only type of attack we know that can deal considerable damage to Barragan is the same type of attack that Starrk does best (although after watching the anime, they don't seem that powerful to me. they seemed a lot more powerful in the manga imo, Cero Metralleta i mean) and i doubt that Cero Metralleta will have that much effect on Barragan.

the wolves seem very powerful though, so they might be able to cause some damage.

Conclusion: i have no idea who would win.

how do you propose Stark manages to get some wolves to even hit Barragan?

Nicholas.Sama
July 13, 2010, 08:42 AM
lets take that statement into consideration:

we know that Barragan had not released his sword yet, if you say that his speed at that time was the same as a released Starrk then you would also be saying that when he releases he should be faster than Starrk, considering the boost in speed that he would receive from releasing.

Don't assume that because he got behind someone kneeling on the ground right in front of him while he was talking means that he is as fast as Starrk.

There's no way that they don't know each other's powers (espada i mean) simply because there was absolutely no surprise on their faces when they released (of course this is just an assumption) but you can't tell me that Starrk doesn't know Barragan's power and vice-versa.

the only type of attack we know that can deal considerable damage to Barragan is the same type of attack that Starrk does best (although after watching the anime, they don't seem that powerful to me. they seemed a lot more powerful in the manga imo, Cero Metralleta i mean) and i doubt that Cero Metralleta will have that much effect on Barragan.

the wolves seem very powerful though, so they might be able to cause some damage.

Conclusion: i have no idea who would win.

Kneeling or not, you are aware that was SOI FON right. She is able to move at speeds equal to that of the Goddess of Flash. The fact that he so calmly speed blitzed SOI FON is not something to write off. I'm not saying he's faster than Starrk, but I doubt the difference is anything noteworthy.

kkck
July 13, 2010, 09:31 AM
I still think this fight depends on how respira works. Does respira get spent as it ages stuff or does it remain there regardless of how much stuff it ages? If there is a limit to how much respira can age something then starrk is the perfect counter for barragan.... Barragan is a spammer by definition, if respira gets spent as it ages stuff, firing continuous cero to through respira into barragan will inevitably result in barragan getting hit.... Same result can be achieved by wolves....

Xsoteria
July 13, 2010, 11:20 AM
I still think this fight depends on how respira works. Does respira get spent as it ages stuff or does it remain there regardless of how much stuff it ages? If there is a limit to how much respira can age something then starrk is the perfect counter for barragan.... Barragan is a spammer by definition, if respira gets spent as it ages stuff, firing continuous cero to through respira into barragan will inevitably result in barragan getting hit.... Same result can be achieved by wolves....

This really would work both ways, at best. AoE respira would be the defense against Starrk's ranged attacks. It's not like Bara can't drop the next wave of respira to deal with the ceros.

If respira truly gets spent I think it would only provide for a stalemate. And even if Starrk's attacks punch through respira like through cheese (unlikely), whatever gets to him will do minimum damage.

kkck
July 13, 2010, 11:41 AM
This really would work both ways, at best. AoE respira would be the defense against Starrk's ranged attacks. It's not like Bara can't drop the next wave of respira to deal with the ceros.

If respira truly gets spent I think it would only provide for a stalemate. And even if Starrk's attacks punch through respira like through cheese (unlikely), whatever gets to him will do minimum damage.

Not necessarily.... In case respira does get spent, each subsequent cero would get little by little closer to barrgan. In that sense, it is true the first cero to reach him will probably be very weak and aged, but in turn the next one would be a tad stronger and so on. The main issue here would be whether barragan could release respira faster than what starrk shots cero metralleta. Each cero has considerable size and seems to have somewhat reasonable power -although not massive-. Unless barragan can release enough respira at a good enough rate then cero would reach him without a doubt. Surely one cero won't be enough to defeat barragan but once he has to deal with starrk shooting god knows how many in the same spot to make way for his attack then barragan would be in trouble.

Another thing which would make a difference is whether respira can be physically affected by things around it. For instance, would a explosion affect it? Would coming in contact with cero displace it? If any of these is the case then starrk is nothing but the perfect counter for barragan considering his spamming capacities.

I doubt respira cannot be physically affected or remains unspent though, mostly for this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/11/

Hachi's barriers did get age but in turn this is a perfect example of how respira can be physically affected by other things, in this case kido. If it could not get physically affected it would have erradicated hachi's barrier without stopping even for a second instantaneously. Given this, I'd think enough of starrk's cero or strategical wolf explosions would eventually reach barragan.

Xsoteria
July 13, 2010, 12:10 PM
Not necessarily.... In case respira does get spent, each subsequent cero would get little by little closer to barrgan. In that sense, it is true the first cero to reach him will probably be very weak and aged, but in turn the next one would be a tad stronger and so on. The main issue here would be whether barragan could release respira faster than what starrk shots cero metralleta. Each cero has considerable size and seems to have somewhat reasonable power -although not massive-. Unless barragan can release enough respira at a good enough rate then cero would reach him without a doubt. Surely one cero won't be enough to defeat barragan but once he has to deal with starrk shooting god knows how many in the same spot to make way for his attack then barragan would be in trouble.

Another thing which would make a difference is whether respira can be physically affected by things around it. For instance, would a explosion affect it? Would coming in contact with cero displace it? If any of these is the case then starrk is nothing but the perfect counter for barragan considering his spamming capacities.

I doubt respira cannot be physically affected or remains unspent though, mostly for this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/11/

Hachi's barriers did get age but in turn this is a perfect example of how respira can be physically affected by other things, in this case kido. If it could not get physically affected it would have erradicated hachi's barrier without stopping even for a second instantaneously. Given this, I'd think enough of starrk's cero or strategical wolf explosions would eventually reach barragan.

Well yes, in case Respira gets spent and if it gets spent at a high enough rate, and under the assumption that Baraggan can't send out another wave or reinforce the existing one by the time ceros get through... Then he could be in trouble. Though he could just dodge.

I don't think the edge in this fight for Starrk (if he had it) lies in ceros. I doubt that even without Respira he could bring Bara down with only ceros. In case respira gets spent then ceros would be an appropriate defense, and again that depends on the rates and stuff.

Rather than ceros, I would think that Starrk should try and go with wolves. They seem to be easier to land, Starrk doesn't have to stand still so he can dodge while attacking, and more importantly, wolves could do some actual damage. If they somehow turned out to be immune to respira, that could mean trouble for Baraggan.

Otherwise, Starrk's victory here seems like a stretch to me.

damane08
July 13, 2010, 12:35 PM
how do you propose Stark manages to get some wolves to even hit Barragan?

The answer is right on this page and the pages that follow (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/369/17/) just remember how Barragan was damaged. If there was no way to damage him cuz he would age everything that you threw at him then no attack would work right? Just look at the plan that hachi devised, you saw how it worked right?
[hr]

Kneeling or not, you are aware that was SOI FON right. She is able to move at speeds equal to that of the Goddess of Flash. The fact that he so calmly speed blitzed SOI FON is not something to write off. I'm not saying he's faster than Starrk, but I doubt the difference is anything noteworthy.



You people REALLY need to stop taking these things to literal (especially in bleach) the goddess of flash must be the fastest shinigami then and the 7th espada must be the fastest espada as he claimed (we saw nothing of that, he wasn't even moving that much faster than Byakuya, if at all and then considering after Ichigo released his sword he was faster than Byakuya and then ulquiorra was like a lot faster even when ichigo had his mask on)

what does goddess of flash even mean? for sure it doesnt mean that she is the fastest shinigami, or maybe i missed something.

But look here though look at his hand (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/15/)
we know that he slows things down, he could've been slowing her down at that point. but that's just an assumption

Nicholas.Sama
July 13, 2010, 01:04 PM
The answer is right on this page and the pages that follow (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/369/17/) just remember how Barragan was damaged. If there was no way to damage him cuz he would age everything that you threw at him then no attack would work right? Just look at the plan that hachi devised, you saw how it worked right?
<hr noshade size="1">




You people REALLY need to stop taking these things to literal (especially in bleach) the goddess of flash must be the fastest shinigami then and the 7th espada must be the fastest espada as he claimed (we saw nothing of that, he wasn't even moving that much faster than Byakuya, if at all and then considering after Ichigo released his sword he was faster than Byakuya and then ulquiorra was like a lot faster even when ichigo had his mask on)

what does goddess of flash even mean? for sure it doesnt mean that she is the fastest shinigami, or maybe i missed something.

But look here though look at his hand (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/15/)
we know that he slows things down, he could've been slowing her down at that point. but that's just an assumption

The 7th Espada had the fasted sonido, that's not even debatable.
He was the ONLY one able to do them in so fast that he could made 5 clones of himself at once.

Goddess of Flash, means that she took her proficiency in Shunpo to it's highest level. People wouldn't have given her the title if it weren't true.

vizardichigo
July 13, 2010, 02:06 PM
Starrk IMO...He seems to be faster and has better analytical skills...Also if he releases 1000 wolves all at once Barragan wont be able to contain it..He barely contained Soifons bankai, and Starrk releasing 1000 wolves that can move and attack and re form all on their own would just be too much to contain despite respira being arguably the strongest attack we have seen in the manga, but the autonomy of Starrks wolves would be too much for Bara...If it were just ceros i would have probably said Bara, but the wolves are a whole different ball game.

Xsoteria
July 13, 2010, 02:24 PM
Starrk IMO...He seems to be faster and has better analytical skills...Also if he releases 1000 wolves all at once Barragan wont be able to contain it..He barely contained Soifons bankai, and Starrk releasing 1000 wolves that can move and attack and re form all on their own would just be too much to contain despite respira being arguably the strongest attack we have seen in the manga, but the autonomy of Starrks wolves would be too much for Bara...If it were just ceros i would have probably said Bara, but the wolves are a whole different ball game.

You may have mixed up ceros with wolves. Nowhere is it implied Starrk can release a 1000 wolves at once.

Truu
July 14, 2010, 04:05 AM
Barragan. He survived Soifon's bankai, there is no way in hell Stark has something which is stronger than Jakuho Raikoben.

Barragan rots him.