View Full Version : Zan Tech Hogyouku & Its Power

En Yang Ji
July 11, 2010, 07:33 PM
Aizen said the Hogyoku's power is limited, since it can only help the one it's being used on to achieve something that's within their potential. What about WW? I seriously doubt WW would of had the power to negate any abilities without the Hogyouku.

Aizen had an idea of what the Hogyouku's power was. Unless it was in WW potential to negate abilities I don't think Aizen would of used the Hogyouku to modify WW. It may be the case that Aizen knew WW had the ability to negate abilities, after seeing it first hand before WW was an arrancur, but than why would he use the Hogyouku to modify WW at all? WW would be able to negate all abilities including Yama's and have all his other abilities.

I doubt Aizen would throw all that away for no reason. WW likely didn't have that power before the modification. By throwing all his other abilities WW was able to obtain the power Aizen wanted. Can the Hogyouku modify existing shinigami powers? Can the user of the Hogyouku choose what type of powers (kidou based, melee type, etc.), a shinigami who hasn't awakened his zanpakatou obtains?

It may just be the case that hollows powers can be more easily modified than Shinigami. Ulquiorra stated that he traded in power for high-speed regeneration: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/351/05/

Jorge D. Dragon
July 12, 2010, 01:18 AM
I think it can be that as you stated, that the hollow powers can pe easier traded to what you whant, then shinigami's, but also it can be that Wondi had a bit of ability to negate powers. But it was really not that much effective. For example like he did to Mashiro's mask, when he fought with her or what he did with the ice prison where Hallibel was.:) But to achieve the total negation Aizen needed to modify him and trade some of his abilities.

En Yang Ji
February 12, 2011, 05:26 PM
It seems like the Hogyoku's power is a stronger version of fullbringer. What do you guys think?

February 13, 2011, 03:27 PM
Well,the Hogyoku might have other powers that we don't know.Though i'm not sure about this.
To add up to the mystery surrounding Hogyoku,we know that Aizen created himself a Hogyoku before Urahara created his own Hogyoku.Later Aizen said that he (freakin`)fused Urahara's Hogyoku (which had the power mentioned in the manga,that with the potential)with his Hogyoku(which we don't know for sure that it has the same power as Urahara's).Can it be that the Hogyoku Aizen created and Urahara's Hogyoku are two things that are the same thing?I seriously doubt this,Aizen's Hogyoku must have had other powers.

But since both the Hogyokus were fused together and they were also fused with Aizen,I say that the new merged Hogyoku has other powers BESIDES the one mentioned in the manga.Imagine this: Aizen's Hogyoku is Zangetsu and Kisuke's Hogyoku is Shirosaki.When they fuse together,BAM! a major power surge.

February 13, 2011, 03:51 PM
I don't think aizen's and urahara's hogyoku actually had different abilities. I would find that a tad weird since apparently both urahara and aizen were trying to reach the same thing. What I did get from aizen's words is that neither orb was exceptionally useful before aizen fed his own orb with urahara's. Obviously there was a major powerup to the orb once it was completed.

As for the orb's power I think it is exactly what aizen called it, the ability to grant wishes. Thing is, the acting of the orb does not necessarily have to be all flashy and whatnot as we saw when aizen made wonderweiss. It can also be subtle and barely noticeable. Then it is also relevant to consider the limitations of the power of the orb. Aizen said the orb could only work as a guide of sorts but it can't make you go somewhere inherently beyond your potential. In that sense the orb could make you evolve but in turn said evolution/s will never get you past a certain limit. That is perhaps why the orb could make aizen continually evolve but still not reach ichigo's power. It is possible aizen could have reached ichigo had he kept evolving but it is also likely no amount of evolutions could get him to where ichigo was.

February 14, 2011, 10:13 AM
Well the manga (Kubo) stated his abomination form was his final mode. I just think he overestimated his own natural ability because he was such an outstanding Shinigami even at a young age. Even that last stage seemed forced and he was surprised. The Hogyoku was straining to get every last drop of talent out of him to get him close to Ichigo. But his natural limit wouldn't allow such a thing. Ichigo is all kinds of special, so he wasn't even close.

As for WW, it IS very likely he had a less extreme form of that ability in his original state. I'm sure Barragan and Starrk only got Respira and wolves after the Hogyoku was used. The first probably had his normal aging field but then it got stronger. His crown was refined to show the strength increase I think. And Lilynette didn't have guns and stuff in original mode but had the soul splitting power (which is how Starrk was formed in the first place). Their talent in these areas was amplified by Hogyoku. Ulquiorra's second release was a product of Hogyoku too. When he used it against Ichigo he acted like that was the first time. WW was different because Aizen had to make sure his power was strong enough to cancel Ryujin Jakka so his cancelling ability must have been strained to the max, which came at the cost of retardation in other areas. This and the power trading thing are kind of iffy, but I suppose Aizen just had that great of a control over the orb.

Bottom line is the explanation Aizen gave for the Hogyoku works. Latest example being Chad. His powers are greater in reach than a normal Fullbringer because his full talent was brought out.