PDA

View Full Version : Fantasy Kensei vs Baraggan



Bowser
July 18, 2010, 11:58 AM
Well probably a mismatch, but I'm just wondering whether wind can age.

Kensei's Zanpakuto is Tachikaze - it's shikai has the ability to manipulate wind. He has Air Blades, which releases transparent blades of wind which cut enemies from a distance. He can also charge his Zanpakuto with his spiritual energy and fires it as a white energy blast with extreme force.

His bankai caused a large explosion against Wonderweiss.

Baraggan on the other hand can age and deteriorate every object around him, release Respira which immediately ages and rots anything it comes into contact.

Incidently, who else would you argue can defeat Baraggan?


PS: Sorry for not adding a poll :P

Random101
July 18, 2010, 03:00 PM
This brings up an important question, is Respiera gas based? If so wind, and any really 'explosion' type tech would be able to easy divert, if not outright turn it back on Barragon. If so Kensei probably takes it.

However I'm inclined to think no, purely because Hachi did not try this despite there being a kido that directly involves such a thing, and Respiera was able to divert a powerful explosion like Soifon's bankai. It seems a more solid tech is the only type that can really divert or stall the thing, like the barriers and stuff. Hence I'd probably give it to Barragon in this case.

kkck
July 18, 2010, 04:53 PM
We never really saw how respira would work be affected by explosions or techniques of the sort. Soifon did not have many of those and the effect of her bankai on respira was hardly seen, we never got a situation where we could have seen respira blown away by her bankai. Hachi was a kido user but hardly a battle oriented one. Hachi specialized in barriers of sorts and even admitted he was not really suited for battle. Not someone which would provide us with chances of seeing respira being blown away. He did provide us with something interesting though.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/369/06/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/369/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/370/11/
Here we see how hachi's barriers managed to stall, even if for just a few seconds, barragan's respira. In that sense, respira was affected physically at least for a moment due to the inherent resistance the kido had. Now, what'd happen if a cero or a beam of sorts comes in contact with respira? It would definitely be aged but while it is aged it'd also move and displace the gas. In that sense, kensei's shikai and bankai could potentially provide a defense against respira considering it is based on wind and powerful explosions. Coming in contact with it is obviously not an option but he does have a chance to defend himself and even attack.

El Samurai Guapo
July 18, 2010, 06:15 PM
Well probably a mismatch, but I'm just wondering whether wind can age.

Kensei's Zanpakuto is Tachikaze - it's shikai has the ability to manipulate wind. He has Air Blades, which releases transparent blades of wind which cut enemies from a distance. He can also charge his Zanpakuto with his spiritual energy and fires it as a white energy blast with extreme force.

His bankai caused a large explosion against Wonderweiss.

Baraggan on the other hand can age and deteriorate every object around him, release Respira which immediately ages and rots anything it comes into contact.

Incidently, who else would you argue can defeat Baraggan?


This is certainly not a mismatch, unless you were referring to it being a mismatch in Kensei's favor.

As the pictures in the post above mine demonstrate, respira, though it can age everything, is a physical gaseous material that can be physically diverted by coming into contact with an object. As such, the first paragraph of Random101's post is basically the right answer. Kensei takes this because his wind based zanpakutou would be able to manipulate the floating clouds of respira; if not in shikai then certainly in bankai.

Bowser
July 18, 2010, 06:36 PM
Hmm so assuming he could deal with the Respira, what about the Time Dilation Field? Slowing down time around him and accelerating ageing too. He could divert explosions aimed at him no?

Random101
July 18, 2010, 07:13 PM
Soifon did not have many of those and the effect of her bankai on respira was hardly seen, we never got a situation where we could have seen respira blown away by her bankai.
Keep in mind he manages to divert the first one with his time powers to keep it from reaching him. Were Respiera Gaseous, the sheer force of explosion would pretty much make this impossible. Granted however arguable. It really depends on whether Respiera is more 'Aura' or more 'Gaseous mass', and frankly I'm inclined to think the first one, despite the name.

Eddy01741
July 18, 2010, 07:21 PM
Hmm so assuming he could deal with the Respira, what about the Time Dilation Field? Slowing down time around him and accelerating ageing too. He could divert explosions aimed at him no?

That was what i was thinking too, if barragan never went res and just used his time slowing powers, if he could lure kensei into a fistfight, he might win.

But yes, the matter of respira is similar to that of barragan vs hitsugaya but even more complicated regarding whether respira is a gas or not.

ryanzokuken
July 18, 2010, 08:55 PM
i don't think it's just a gas, as regular as any other.

at the end, after he took the second shot from Soi Fon's bankai, he got pissed and started spewing what looked like powerful, forceful beams of the stuff. it shot forward in controlled, forceful streams, rather than just rolling out like a fog. blasted through the barriers quite quickly and hit Hacchi's hand and mask.

DEATHBOTT
July 19, 2010, 03:42 AM
he may have been blowing it like a stream of wind. dont know how since he had no lips. i call plotkai!!!

kkck
July 19, 2010, 04:17 AM
That was what i was thinking too, if barragan never went res and just used his time slowing powers, if he could lure kensei into a fistfight, he might win.

But yes, the matter of respira is similar to that of barragan vs hitsugaya but even more complicated regarding whether respira is a gas or not.

I don't think barragan will necessarily have the edge in a fistfight. Certainly aging kensei would be useful but barragan would also be exposed to kensei's short range attacks powered by his mask. Kensei has shown to be quite effective in short range, his punches usually come with explosions and his shikai also have a few tricks. Obviosly a fistfight would be impossible against resurreccion barragan though.

Eddy01741
July 19, 2010, 10:40 AM
But if he slows down Kensei's movements in close range he could get the advantage. Soifon who is one of the fastest characters we have seen had her close range abilities stomped by Barragan unreleased.

kkck
July 19, 2010, 11:25 AM
But if he slows down Kensei's movements in close range he could get the advantage. Soifon who is one of the fastest characters we have seen had her close range abilities stomped by Barragan unreleased.

True but soifon was more reliant on speed than kensei is though. Soifon without her speed can't do anything, she can't even land a blow with her shikai. Kensei without speed can still use his explosion things and shikai at a range. It is a completely different fighting stile and situation.

conn-man
July 20, 2010, 03:07 PM
its cool to see kensei used in a campo fight, hes always seemed a little overlooked since his fight with wonderweiss was completly unseen.

i like kensei though, hes has above average physical strength, tachikaze is a powerful versitile zanpakdou, and he has his mask boost. it looked to me that his mask allowed his zan's explosion abitlity to transfer to his other limbs, so obviously punches and possibly kicks could all be very leathal strikes. but this wont win it for him against barragan, he needs to use range.

he showed that he can shoot a beam like attack during ichigos hollow trainging but barragan might be able to stop that. the ability i think can win it for him is the one he used in the pendulum arc
http://beta.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.05/15/
http://beta.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.05/16/
it seems like he throws out an invisible slice of air or something else and it seems very fast and has the same delayed explosion that his physical strikes have. i htink this ability could win it for him against barragan, i see no way for respira to stop it.

freshseth83
July 20, 2010, 08:47 PM
If he has a wind based zampakuto and can control some form of wind, wind is an element that doesn't age, which is like fire, which is like water, which is like earth- they have no 'age' because they aren't created things, they are elemental. When barragan aged soi-fon's bankai he did so to stop the explosion. When the explosion hit him it affected him. If Kensei can use wind, there's nothing to suggest Barragan can age wind. He'll have to rely on his aging for other things. So technically Kensei would have a bit of success IMO against Barragan.

Random101
July 20, 2010, 09:10 PM
Uh, the explosion exploded regardless. He didn't stop it, he kept it from hitting him. The problem with wind isn't whether or not it ages, it's whether or not it'll keep the aging from reaching him. Which is arguable depending on whether Respiera's more gas or Aura based.

poobert
July 21, 2010, 01:10 PM
Uh, the explosion exploded regardless. He didn't stop it, he kept it from hitting him. The problem with wind isn't whether or not it ages, it's whether or not it'll keep the aging from reaching him. Which is arguable depending on whether Respiera's more gas or Aura based.

Don't think it matters.

Respira is more of a defensive move anyway.

Barragan is faster than Soi Fon and he has an axe. In his fight with soi fon, every time he went on the offensive, he used his axe. The respira was only to play around with and take out hacchi's kido.

He also has the time thingy around his body which makes kensei's punches useless, and he also has whatever he used to explode soi fon's bankai early (he was not using respira then).

And I forgot his cero.

All in all, I think it would take a stronger captain, at least on the level of Shunsui to win. I don't rate Kensei's speed or skill at the level of the higher captains.

AlB
July 21, 2010, 01:20 PM
I agree with most of the posts here that kensei would probably beat Barragan due to wind not being subject to aging. bankai would do the trick I believe.

as for who else might be able to defeat barragan, well i think there are only 4 beings in the bleachverse (apart from kensei and excluding unohana since we don't know anything about her) who can stand up to this monster:
1. Yamamoto
2. Aizen
3. Hachi
4. Tessai

freshseth83
July 21, 2010, 02:42 PM
He stopped it from exploding close to him. Which is what I meant. Not that he stopped it completely from going off. I know Soi-Fon's bankai exploded, but he aged it enough to where it didn't explode anywhere close enough to him to affect him.

Darkp
September 09, 2010, 01:12 AM
Unreleased barragan take this . Cause he can speed blitz soi fon with his time manipulation abilities . She even can't react and dont know what was happened. And dont forget soi fon could fight equally at speed departmant against yourichi , even at some ocasion soi speed blitz yourichi . And I dont think kensei faster than soi . Even if he is faster than soi fon , that does not change the fact that baragan can still slow down kensei with his abilites and blitz him and just touch some vital organs to kill . That is all there is to it .

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-369-page-12.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-369-page-13.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-369-page-15.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-369-page-17.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-369-page-18.html

And if baragan limited just for respira , it could go either way .

kkck
September 09, 2010, 03:32 PM
not quite sure sealed barragan could deal with shikai kensei as he did with soifon. kensei and soifon are drastically different fighters. Kensei, unlikely soifon, has at least considerable attack power thanks to his tiny shikai. Basically, barragan might be able to match up kensei's punch but what would happen about the explosion that comes with it? That'd hurt, unlike soifon's shikai, stopping the motion of kensei's limbs is not quite enough to altogether avoid an attack.

Darkp
September 09, 2010, 09:27 PM
^ The problem is , can he use his explosion atack and hit a target with that speed disadvantage . Baragan simply can touch his head and rot his brain , even one of fastest soi could not see and react against baragan when baragan comes near and touching soi body somewhat 30 meter away .She does not have even a clue what happened . I dont think even bankai kensei with mask could react .

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...9-page-17.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...9-page-18.html

daman246
September 11, 2010, 11:36 PM
barragan will win discussion over kensei got beat by wonderw of screen and im sure that barragan will wipe the floor with ww so measure it up barragan wins nothing else to discuss about

El Samurai Guapo
September 12, 2010, 12:47 AM
barragan will win discussion over kensei got beat by wonderw of screen and im sure that barragan will wipe the floor with ww so measure it up barragan wins nothing else to discuss about

Let me get this straight, there's nothing else to discuss about because you are sure that Barragan would wipe the floor with Wonderweiss? Please...

...despite you being so sure, Barragan vs. Wonderweiss would definitely be up in the air. Yamamoto certainly destroyed Wonderweiss and made him look weak, but this the supposed strongest shinigami in thousands of years we're talking about. WW has an insane instant regeneration ability (far superior to Ulquiorra's), and the one move where he pummels his target with dozens of arms was pretty damn nasty. Secondly, both the outcome and circumstances of the fight between Kensei and Wonderweiss are still a mystery.