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elitefox
July 23, 2010, 03:43 AM
Aizen vs Ichigo

How can this two immortals kill each other?
We have notice that even you destroyed the head or heart they can't be done with and simply regenerate... What do you think is their Achilles heel?

kkck
July 23, 2010, 09:23 AM
Ichigo has never shown immortality, at most he has regenerated. Still, enough damage should very well kill him. Aizen currently is another story.... His body literally exploded from the inside due to his own reiatsu and suffered 0 damage. Can more damage than that be done? Perhaps he can be killed but not by characters in the manga as they currently are.

BaddAzzKenpachi74
July 23, 2010, 01:00 PM
Ichigo?
immortality?
were lol?:D
i agree with kckk on this one.
at BEST he has been shown to be able to regenerated and come back mostly due to his hollow side or zangestsu but has NEVER been shown to be immortal

Kaiten
July 23, 2010, 01:19 PM
Orihime can still negate the hogyouku. She's far away from the action right now but it is not out of the question.

kkck
July 23, 2010, 01:42 PM
Orihime can still negate the hogyouku. She's far away from the action right now but it is not out of the question.

Orihime could do that but that would leave aizen as he is right now which would not change things much. She'd need to also reverse aizen to his shinigami form....

Hystzen
July 23, 2010, 03:37 PM
Orihime could do that but that would leave aizen as he is right now which would not change things much. She'd need to also reverse aizen to his shinigami form....

which wouldnt suprise me if she has the ability too...i see her as gona be key to defeat Aizen alongside ichigo....or maybe i just want orihime do something apart from kurosaki-kun

kkck
July 23, 2010, 03:57 PM
which wouldnt suprise me if she has the ability too...i see her as gona be key to defeat Aizen alongside ichigo....or maybe i just want orihime do something apart from kurosaki-kun

Why wouldn't she be able to regress aizen? Regressing things to a previous state, to deny an act of god or nature, that is the very essence of her power, its very purpose.

Hystzen
July 23, 2010, 04:02 PM
Why wouldn't she be able to regress aizen? Regressing things to a previous state, to deny an act of god or nature, that is the very essence of her power, its very purpose.

i was saying maybe she could think you saw it wrong. :)

"which wouldnt suprise me if she has the ability too...i see her as gona be key to defeat Aizen alongside ichigo....or maybe i just want orihime do something apart from kurosaki-kun"

i was saying she prob could as like you said she can turn things to a prevous state...the end was saying that she has a god power just that kubo makes her only say Kurosaki-kun

Kaiten
July 23, 2010, 07:36 PM
Orihime could do that but that would leave aizen as he is right now which would not change things much. She'd need to also reverse aizen to his shinigami form....

I kind of forgot about that. He used the hogyouku to evolve, but negating it wouldn't necessarily revert him back to his old form (what I was thinking). If that were the case everything that was changed do to the hogyouku would cease to be, and nothing in the story has ever indicated that. Her rule could be what you said, to revert Aizen back to a shinigami.

elitefox
July 26, 2010, 04:24 AM
uhmm, if ichigo is gonna be like aizen then ichigo should be immortal too as well

at least theoretically...

BaddAzzKenpachi74
July 26, 2010, 11:16 AM
uhmm, if ichigo is gonna be like aizen then ichigo should be immortal too as well

at least theoretically...

who ever said Ichigo HAS to be like aizen?:blink

kkck
July 26, 2010, 11:29 AM
I agree.... Ichigo needs at least the capacity to get into a proper reiatsu fight with aizen. still, odds are ichigo will eventually evolve into something similar or superior to what aizen is considering he us supposed to be an special existence and even now aizen is looking forward to seeing ichigo and his power grow.

SaintSheik
July 26, 2010, 11:34 AM
It seems that Aizen's 'wish' is to be a bit more like Ichigo aka a broken character...But on topic, I wouldn't label either them as immortal..even by shonen standards.

kkck
July 26, 2010, 11:44 AM
Aizen seems fairly close though. He exploded from the inside and still took no damage (and that was before he started to properly evolve since he was just getting into the chrysalis stage).

Arrogance
July 26, 2010, 12:43 PM
uhmm, if ichigo is gonna be like aizen then ichigo should be immortal too as well

at least theoretically...
Well its a probable point you have but at the same time there is a chance that Aizen wants to be like Ichigo. Hence why he needs to eat him because he wants his raw power capabilities or something to that extent. All of it really isn't clear but there is something Aizen wants from Ichigo and it could be his power. At this point is could be either way in who wants to be more like who.

Tahl
July 27, 2010, 08:56 AM
I get the feeling that the "ultimate getsuga" will be an attack that will obliterate even the smallest particle of the enemy. Thus making it impossible for Aizen to regenerate.

thornofcarrion
August 02, 2010, 12:42 AM
I will agree with the above post. To kill someone who has instant regeneration abilities, the attack has to completely destroy the opponent. Sorry for the reference, but a move like Kamehameha comes to my mind. I am not sure what FGT would be life. I don't expect it to be just an energy blast. It could do more, but even if its an energy blast of tremendous magnitude and longer continuity, even someone like Aizen may not survive it.

WickedNeko
August 17, 2010, 02:43 AM
...you don't have to kill immortal opponents to defeat them. You could trap them / seal them away / absorb them.

daman246
August 17, 2010, 03:18 PM
Why wouldn't she be able to regress aizen? Regressing things to a previous state, to deny an act of god or nature, that is the very essence of her power, its very purpose.
lol orihime is not strong enough to be stading in front of aizen if aizen is serious she probably break do to his reitsu and orihime is stilll human remeber that 1 hit from aizen can be fatal just 1look is fatal lol but this is besides the point
aizen vs ichigo immortals huh only way to kill eachother is probably erase/destroy everycell and everything is eachothers body so theres nothing left to regenerate
[hr]

I will agree with the above post. To kill someone who has instant regeneration abilities, the attack has to completely destroy the opponent. Sorry for the reference, but a move like Kamehameha comes to my mind. I am not sure what FGT would be life. I don't expect it to be just an energy blast. It could do more, but even if its an energy blast of tremendous magnitude and longer continuity, even someone like Aizen may not survive it.
__________________
true enough but it think ur mistaking kamehame with spirit bomb ichigo all ready possed a kamehame like technioque which is normal getsuga which is blue and this ultimate Gt might aswell be spirit bomb which can desinegrate all evil if touched and gathers energy from eveyrthing is the world/planet

Cyber34
August 26, 2010, 05:35 PM
Aizen vs Ichigo

How can this two immortals kill each other?
We have notice that even you destroyed the head or heart they can't be done with and simply regenerate... What do you think is their Achilles heel?

We have yet to see anybody come back through their "own" power after their head has been obliterated. So I believe one well placed Getsuga Tenshou to the forehead will do the trick. In Aizen's case the same thing applies, except a different form of attack. Ichigo always loses his immortal powers when someone aims for his head, whether he has a mask on or not.

Kaiten
August 26, 2010, 08:36 PM
I'm not sure when either Aizen or Ichigo became immortal. Both have powers exceeding shinigami and hollow, I don't recall it saying anywhere that they were immortal.

kkck
August 27, 2010, 08:56 AM
I think aizen would be immortal against those who are inherently inferior to him, which in this case would be any ordinary shinigami, hollow or hybrid. I don't see how else he could have survived the stuff he has gone through otherwise. Ichigo would be at this point someone upon whom Aizen does not posses inherent superiority over considering he can't even properly feel ichigo's power so ichigo should have it in him to kill aizen. Aizen does have the orb with him so it is possible he will be elevated to wherever ichigo is standing on though.

Gran Maestro
August 27, 2010, 10:22 AM
I think aizen would be immortal against those who are inherently inferior to him, which in this case would be any ordinary shinigami, hollow or hybrid. I don't see how else he could have survived the stuff he has gone through otherwise. Ichigo would be at this point someone upon whom Aizen does not posses inherent superiority over considering he can't even properly feel ichigo's power so ichigo should have it in him to kill aizen. Aizen does have the orb with him so it is possible he will be elevated to wherever ichigo is standing on though.

I don't think so, because in this case Ichigo is also immune to any attack from shinigami, hollow or hybrids, even more immune than Aizen, which IMO is not possible at this point in the manga.

kkck
August 27, 2010, 11:48 AM
^I'd question how shinigami would get into a reiatsu fight with ichigo if they can't feel his power though. If aizen, being inherently superior to shinigami or hollows cannot feel ichigo's power I'd guess shinigami, hollows or hybrids would also not be capable of such a thing. Ichigo right now has evolved past aizen's expectations, I doubt a shinigami could physically harm him. I don't think ichigo's current powerup will be permanent though.

Gran Maestro
August 27, 2010, 02:02 PM
The thing is, I have my doubts about this reiatsu sensing issue. Aizen couldn't sense Ichigo's reiatsu but he wasn't pissing in his pants, he wasn't concerned a bit. Keigo can sense Aizen's reiatsu but even the likes of Omaeda can spank Keigo, what does it tell us? The manga didn't explicitly explain this concept, its relation to power.

Here's an analogy: Suppose that shinigami can sense reiatsu by seeing a bright light around another person. The stronger you are, the brighter this light is. The nature of Aizen's and Ichigo's reiatsu changed, they now emit UV light instead of visible light. Regular shinigami can't see it but people whose eyes can detect UV radiation can see it. Ichigo's light is out of Aizen's and Keigo's vision range but it doesn't mean that Ichigo is immune to Aizen's attacks. It only suggests Ichigo's light has more energy, he has more potential.

There's no such thing as immortality in Bleach, I'd like to see what would happen to Aizen if Gin aimed his sword at Aizen's head and destroyed it. Could Aizen regenerate?

kkck
August 27, 2010, 03:04 PM
IMO the situation is more along the lines a human attacking a shinigami. Spiritually aware humans can touch and even hurt other spiritual beings. On the other hand, humans who are not spiritually aware can't do crap to a shinigami no matter how hard they try.

I know the manga hasn't explained but I based that theory based on what we have seen. We saw urahara, ishin, yoruichi and gin and none of them could even make aizen bleed no matter what they did to him. Only thing we know is that apparently the lot of them could not feel aizen's power properly and their attacks caused between 0 and no damage. On the other hand, we get ichigo who for some reason is someone who aizen cannot feel reiatsu from and a single tap from ichigo leaves him bleeding(something which obliteration, disintegration, and being broken before did not cause). In other words, the thing here is that ichigo actually is physically capable of hurting aizen, something other shinigami were outright not capable off due to being inherently inferior.

I know the keigo and co situation is kinda strange but I don't think it is contradictory in the least(even if it means they'd have a better chance of beating aizen than bankai yama lol). Then again, it is extremely likely the lot of them were actually affected by the orb meaning that right now what they lack is training.

That said, IMO things would not have been different in the least had gin aimed his sword at aizen's head. He would have undergone his evolution just the same. It's not like aizen's head has not been hurt before (when ishin slashed it before and when aizen's body was reduced to nothing by urahara's seal).

I think the immortality situation is more of a hierarchy thing rather than actual immortality. Aizen stands inherently above shinigami so shinigami or humans cannot hope to physically hurt him or even get into a proper reiatsu fight. Ichigo right now stands inherently above aizen and aizen can't feel the guy's power hence aizen can't get into a proper reiatsu fight with ichigo and why ichigo could hurt aizen so easily.

Gran Maestro
August 27, 2010, 03:41 PM
I don't think Aizen regenerated from nothingness when Urahara used reiatsu seals. The seals were designed to obliterate a shinigami but they were kinda useless on someone who no longer had a shinigami body. How else could Urahara know Aizen would survive the attack? It burned Aizen a bit at most, if the seal was 100% effective, then Aizen would have died. Otherwise it means even Aizen doesn't have the power/reiatsu to kill himself which IMO doesn't make any sense.

Isshin's GT actually worked but it was like Ichigo's GT against Gin, it didn't do much damage and Aizen can simply regenerate from minor wounds. If Isshin tried his version of FGT, perhaps he could have hurt Aizen but he didn't realize that he had to go all out until it was too late.

Anyway, we are yet to see someone who actually recovered from a major damage to the head. People are talking about characters from other manga who can regenerate from total obliteration but I don't think Kubo will follow this route. I hope not.

kkck
August 27, 2010, 04:06 PM
I don't think Aizen regenerated from nothingness when Urahara used reiatsu seals. The seals were designed to obliterate a shinigami but they were kinda useless on someone who no longer had a shinigami body. How else could Urahara know Aizen would survive the attack? It burned Aizen a bit at most, if the seal was 100% effective, then Aizen would have died. Otherwise it means even Aizen doesn't have the power/reiatsu to kill himself which IMO doesn't make any sense.

Isshin's GT actually worked but it was like Ichigo's GT against Gin, it didn't do much damage and Aizen can simply regenerate from minor wounds. If Isshin tried his version of FGT, perhaps he could have hurt Aizen but he didn't realize that he had to go all out until it was too late.

Anyway, we are yet to see someone who actually recovered from a major damage to the head. People are talking about characters from other manga who can regenerate from total obliteration but I don't think Kubo will follow this route. I hope not.

I don't think aizen got burned just a bit. Had the seal altogether not worked, then we would not have seen aizen actually explode.

I also don't get the impression ichigo's GT actually worked in the same way as ishin's. Lets take a look.
http://www.cloudmanga.com/Bleach/405/19/
http://www.cloudmanga.com/Bleach/399/20/
Ishin actually slashed aizen with his sword while powered up with a GT(it actually got the head also). On the other hand, ichigo's didn't slash anything, it just seemed to cause superficial damage at most.

Gran Maestro
August 27, 2010, 04:50 PM
I don't think aizen got burned just a bit. Had the seal altogether not worked, then we would not have seen aizen actually explode.

I also don't get the impression ichigo's GT actually worked in the same way as ishin's. Lets take a look.
http://www.cloudmanga.com/Bleach/405/19/
http://www.cloudmanga.com/Bleach/399/20/
Ishin actually slashed aizen with his sword while powered up with a GT(it actually got the head also). On the other hand, ichigo's didn't slash anything, it just seemed to cause superficial damage at most.

The seal didn't completely fail, it just didn't work as it was meant to be. Urahara knew it wouldn't work to full effect because he was the one who designed the cuffs, he knew when and why they would be ineffective.

Isshin's GT worked, hence the remark from Aizen: "That was a splendid strike. I fully understood your attack." But it failed to do major damage to Aizen and he recovered from the strike. Even though Isshin's GT was the most powerful attack Aizen had endured, it still didn't have enough power to actually hurt Aizen, in that sense it resembles Ichigo's GT. If Isshin did go bankai and try a much stronger attack, things might have been different.