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chess4
July 26, 2010, 05:26 PM
Ok, last chapter dragon said that he would gather all of the commanders very soon.

so far of the known Revolutionary members are dragon, invonkov, and inazuma. kuma was a one a one point, but its up in the air if he is a completely under the world governments control. i dont think inazuma is a commander, so dragon, invonkov, and kuma are the only commanders we have seen so far.

i think we have seen a couple of commanders but they havent been revealed to be commanders yet, like kishiro(zoro's master). he seems like a pretty powerful guy, and dragon being on his island, i think, its not a coincedence.

i just hope they are as cool as some of the pirates we have seen. i think the RA is structured like the marines. with dragon being equal to sengoku.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS?

Bugzee
July 26, 2010, 06:13 PM
Koshiro an RV commander? Hmm. That's interesting...considering the way in which he used particular words to teach Zoro (when he was young) about life, swordsmanship, etc.

I'm definitely excited to see the other RV commanders in the future. I have a feeling that Iva is the weirdest of them all though. We won't get another character like that within the RV's lol. I would like to know more about the history of these commanders, both individually and as a group. It would suck if all these commanders rely on df's. It would be cool if the RV had their own kind of Rokushiki-like fighting techniques...just a thought.

Don't you think this thread should be merged with the Dragon Thread!? and possibly be renamed as "Dragon & The RV's" or something like that!?

Great idea though, chess4. Thanks.

chess4
July 26, 2010, 06:49 PM
it might get merged but when more of the commanders get revealed we will need someplace to to talk about them. i agree with invonkov will be the strangest. oda has so many characters and future characters he hasnt shown. i just hope he doesnt waste all the good powers already. we havent seen most of WB's powers, and none of the other 3 yonkou crews. also there are the level 6 escaped prisoners and not to mention new world pirate crews we havent seen, plus the new world pirates that came with WB.

i just hope oda makes them great

Jorge D. Dragon
July 27, 2010, 02:50 AM
I think that Dragon could be a pirate and he had a crew and each member became commander of Revolutionary Army and then gathered their own divisions like Iva. Though it's only a guess.
I also expect his commanders to be at least at the level of Rear Admiral up to the level of Vice Admiral, because I think that RA can't only rely on number and Dragon's power.:)
I would like to see them soon.:)

vagabond87
July 27, 2010, 03:10 AM
I hope for Sabo being one of the commanders.. If he is alive his level of strenght can be between Ace and Luffy so he is pretty damn strong and. I hope that only reason why he didnt tried to help free Ace is because he was to far from Marineford to make it in time or because he is to important for revolutionaries and Dragon ordered him not to go..

bittman
July 27, 2010, 05:09 AM
I expect, because this is Oda, that someone we have already met will suddenly turn up and be like "Oh btw I'm a Revolutionary Commander. What? I never told you?"

Koshiro is a maybe. I would like for him to feature somewhere in the story's future, but if he really was a commander would it have been as simple as "Oh and the local dojo gave us food"? Then again, perhaps he had quit to raise his daughter, and with Kuina gone he may have rejoined? There are definitely possibilities as far as Koshiro is concerned.

But if not Koshiro, because it's Oda, someone we have already met will be a revolutionary. It's probably just a matter of narrowing down who. I like the Koshiro theory also, but I'd be happy to see like one of those marines we see around but don't focus on too much to suddenly show their double agent status or something (e.g. imagine Garp's right hand man suddenly being all revolutionary).

Beyond that, I wonder how many commanders there are, and what level we're talking about here? Iva was easily on par with the vice admirals, and though he seemed to be beneath the admirals and Magellan, he could at least fight on par with them for a period. So for the commanders you're probably looking at the level Marco and Jozu sat at, which is the range I would rate Iva also. They should at least have someone, or two-three someones, on par with the admirals personally though, else how do they hope to replace the WG?

OdaForPresident
July 27, 2010, 05:26 AM
How about Aokiji being a commander for the RA? It would make sense that the revolutionaries have some spies in the WG. So why not in the upper echelons? And I picked Aokiji because of his moral compass which sets him aside from the other admirals.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 27, 2010, 05:49 AM
I hope for Sabo being one of the commanders.. If he is alive his level of strenght can be between Ace and Luffy so he is pretty damn strong and. I hope that only reason why he didnt tried to help free Ace is because he was to far from Marineford to make it in time or because he is to important for revolutionaries and Dragon ordered him not to go..
It would be interesting if Sabo is alive an is a commander of Revolutionary Army, though I don't think he is stronger than Luffy. And also I think that Luffy is now stronger than Ace. The only thing he lacks is to learn to use Haki, but after he gets how to use it it would be a victory for Luffy. Also I don't think that Sabo can be a top tier character. Only if he got a Devil Fruit. Though I can be wrong.

Fox666
July 27, 2010, 07:20 AM
Beyond that, I wonder how many commanders there are, and what level we're talking about here? Iva was easily on par with the vice admirals, and though he seemed to be beneath the admirals and Magellan, he could at least fight on par with them for a period. So for the commanders you're probably looking at the level Marco and Jozu sat at, which is the range I would rate Iva also. They should at least have someone, or two-three someones, on par with the admirals personally though, else how do they hope to replace the WG?Hmm, Ivankov is the second in command of the revolutionaries, isn't him? I would rank him slight below the Shichibukai level, and I would not expect anyone stronger than him in the revolutionaries (expect for Dragon). I would rather expect weird and usefull abilities, like Ivankov does. Something like Absalom power.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 27, 2010, 07:57 AM
I would rank him slight below the Shichibukai level
You know... Shichibukai level differs and in fact I think from what was shown in manga he is stronger than the most of Shichis. He was stronger than Luffy who had bitten Croc and Moria. Also Kuma fought against Magellan and stayed alive. And after that he fought against Kuma in weaken state and showed himself superiour. And even after he put a fight against Akainu, though he couldn't logically put a real match for Akainu in his state.:) That's why I think he is deffinetly stronger than most of Shichis.

And I think that other commanders of Revolutionary Army should be at least on the level of Rear Admiral or it is impossible for them to be such power which opposes WG dirrectly.

BetaRuler
July 27, 2010, 09:13 AM
My personal hope is that there is a recurrant theme in all of the commanders, such as Ivankov freeing himself from gender, Kuma's theme seems to be the becoming a robot, the one speaking to Robin may embrace bestiality (bad choice of word i know XD)... If Sabo were there his theme might be along those lines of liberating himself from wealth.

I can't particularly name what Dragons theme of liberation might be, maybe it's tattoos! Kiddin, let'see how they turn out as more are introduced I guess.

OdaForPresident
July 27, 2010, 10:41 AM
I really like your ideas there BetaRuler, expect for the beastiality idea then... lol.

Maybe some leader freed himself from worldly attachment, like some really spiritual person. What did dragon free himself from? Family is the first thing that comes to mind. Though thats not really a good thing.

kkck
July 27, 2010, 01:21 PM
It would be interesting if Sabo is alive an is a commander of Revolutionary Army, though I don't think he is stronger than Luffy. And also I think that Luffy is now stronger than Ace. The only thing he lacks is to learn to use Haki, but after he gets how to use it it would be a victory for Luffy. Also I don't think that Sabo can be a top tier character. Only if he got a Devil Fruit. Though I can be wrong.

If sabo is alive he is bound to be much stronger than luffy IMO. I doubt luffy was even close to ace right now, he does not seem to have anything over ace at all. Speed, strength, stamina, fruit.... ace seems to have the advantage over all those things. it'd be interesting if he is a commander, he would have probably become quite strong after so many years of fighting. Sabo was roughly of the same level of strength as ace as a kid, he is definitely someone who can grow up to be extremely powerful IMO. I don't think he'd need a DF for that though.

undertoe
July 27, 2010, 01:31 PM
How about Aokiji being a commander for the RA? It would make sense that the revolutionaries have some spies in the WG. So why not in the upper echelons? And I picked Aokiji because of his moral compass which sets him aside from the other admirals.

Except he tried to kill Robin, the treasure of the RA that they were ordered to protect with their lives. And he was at least a Vice Admiral before the RA even existed.

Jorge D. Dragon
July 27, 2010, 03:15 PM
kkck

If sabo is alive he is bound to be much stronger than luffy IMO. I doubt luffy was even close to ace right now, he does not seem to have anything over ace at all. Speed, strength, stamina, fruit.... ace seems to have the advantage over all those things. it'd be interesting if he is a commander, he would have probably become quite strong after so many years of fighting. Sabo was roughly of the same level of strength as ace as a kid, he is definitely someone who can grow up to be extremely powerful IMO. I don't think he'd need a DF for that though.
When BB negated Ace's DF with his ability it was shown that Ace's combat power without DF isn't that great. So his real power isn't that great. The only problem for Luffy to defeat Ace is that Ace had logia and Luffy hadn't mastered his Haki. And about Sabo... it depends you know. He could be great or he could be not. Ace and Luffy both have great bloodline and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Though Sabo was better than Luffy at that time, but he was 3 years older than Luffy and in that time it was really important. Also Luffy didn't know how to use DF, so it was a burden for him, so it was only logically for Sabo to be way better, but through the whole manga Luffy showed the ability to negate the gap between him and his opponents very fast (as it was with CP9 or with Croc or with Moria), also he has DF which fits very much for close combat and he can withstand great damage, so I think that if Sabo is alive he is weaker than Luffy if he hasn' DF. Though I doubt that Sabo is alive, because it would spoil Luffy's drama. But I would like to see him;)

BetaRuler I think your theory is very plausible.:)

OdaForPresident

How about Aokiji being a commander for the RA?
I don't think he is revolutionary. He can be, but I think he is rather devoted to the Government and he has his sense of justice to maintain peace and Revolutionary Army now is making riots and turmoils throughout the world. So I don't think that he can be part of such organization.

k-dom
July 27, 2010, 03:23 PM
I've been thinking about that comment from Dragon too. I'm not sure about Koshiro, I suppose they know eachother and it seems like it was the first time Ivankov saw him. I wonder if after Arabasta events, Dragon will have contacted the Nefartari family.

kkck
July 27, 2010, 04:00 PM
I don't see why the fight between ace and BB is an indicator of anything at all. It's not like luffy did not get absorbed by BB and did not start bleeding from one hit. BB is quite a resilient guy, he even survived a hit from whitebeards fruit to the head. I don't think luffy would have a chance in hell against ace even if he could hit him as he is now. Also, what about the fight between jimbei and ace? They fought to a standstill years ago... Jimbei was certainly capable of hitting ace and for all we know he'd make short work the entire strawhat crew by himself.

As for the commanders of the revolutionary army.... I think they will be a force comparable to the shichibukai or WB's commanders in general. There could be a significant variation in power but overall each of them would be brutally powerful and far past the level of a rookie like luffy.
[hr]
Wonder if jimbei would become a leader of the revolutionary army. He is quite powerful and would be a mayor asset in a fight anywhere. With WB loosing influence and the fact that he is right now a extremely wanted man he'd certainly be someone to take an opportunity such as that. If jimbei becomes a leader then the loss of WB's influence would be less detrimental to fishman island for one thing. Fishman island would get newfound protection from the revolutionary army and furthermore, they'd also have protection from WB's crew. Jimbei would also be fighting for a new order which could potentially be far more benefitial to the fishmen and mermen. This could also result in conflict between the WB pirates and the revolutinary army though (even though it could also result in a partial alliance). Dunno, this seems like a very logical development IMO.

Spaceman-Spiff
July 27, 2010, 04:39 PM
i think we have seen a couple of commanders but they havent been revealed to be commanders yet, like kishiro(zoro's master). he seems like a pretty powerful guy, and dragon being on his island, i think, its not a coincedence.

I think Koushirou is an interesting character. He owned one of the 21 excellent grade swords (oo wazamono). He could've been someone strong/influential.

Ero-Sanji
July 27, 2010, 04:43 PM
I wonder if after Arabasta events, Dragon will have contacted the Nefartari family.

I don't know about that... The whole point of Vivi not joining the Straw hats were to prevent the Marine from abandoning the Island or perhaps even see them as enemies and thus enslaving them. Cobra is also a member of the council of kings and they are against Dragon, seeing him as an enemy. Luffy's connection to Dragon might have changed Cobra's mind but I highly doubt it.

On topic,

So, the commanders should be very strong perhaps at the same level or even stronger than the average admiral. Remember the Gorousei are the leaders of the WG "main army" and they seem to be battle oriented unlike Spandam.

Judging from their appearence and their title it seems that they are stronger than an admiral. Dragon himself can't take all five of them at once so he should have some friends who are able to compete with them. However there is a slight possibility that Luffy might be the one taking them down together with the top 4 of his crew, one of them has a sword...

Koshiro as a RA member is not impossible and actually very interesting. It got me thinking of a rather crazy thought. The way Koshiro reacted upon his daughters death was extremely odd. "Humans are fragile", I mean what father says that so soon after ones daughter dies??

Kuina's death was also very strange and so not Oda. When Oda kills a person near to a straw hat he does it with emotion and he nearly makes us cry, Kuina's death was ridiculous* and it was also unpredictable. A trait also not like Oda we usually know when someone is about to kick the bucket. To get to the point I think Kuina is Tashigi but also a RA under disguise just like Kuma.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/589/07/

Could the injured person be referred to Kuina?

*Not trying to mock death in any way:s

Uriel
July 27, 2010, 10:13 PM
I imagine that RA commanders haver some kind of relation according to the theme and not just a bunch of characters together. Just exactly like Admirals, Shichibukai and aparently Yonkou (With the 4 colors thingie) and some other crews and teams.

Just a thought.

chess4
July 28, 2010, 08:43 PM
I imagine that RA commanders haver some kind of relation according to the theme and not just a bunch of characters together. Just exactly like Admirals, Shichibukai and aparently Yonkou (With the 4 colors thingie) and some other crews and teams.

Just a thought.

the yonkou and the admirals are all based off chinese legend. the admirals some story about a boy, ablue pheasant, a yellow monkey, and a red dog. the yonkou(personal opinion) are based off of the 4 mythical beast legend.

either way the 2 othe commanders we have seen kuma and invonkov are strong so i would assume the others are strong 2. i wonder how many commanders there are. if dragon is the equa of sengoku so to speak then i would guess there are at least 5 high ranking commanders and invonkov and kuma are 2 of them.

kkck
July 28, 2010, 09:33 PM
the revolutionary army's commanders should be quite brutal to say the least. Dragon along with whoever is right behind him should be capable of fighting roughly evenly with a yonkou.... those who follow should be good matches against the admirals. The rest of them should be a comparable force to the VA and shichibukai in general to say the least.... I don't think we should expect any less from the commanders so far. Just look at kuma, with his fruit logia really have little over him and ivankov so far seems to be capable of going up against any shichibukai and defeat sanji with no effort whatsoever.

Fox666
July 28, 2010, 09:36 PM
I imagine that RA commanders haver some kind of relation according to the theme and not just a bunch of characters together. Just exactly like Admirals, Shichibukai and aparently Yonkou (With the 4 colors thingie) and some other crews and teams.

Just a thought.Maybe animals like the Shichibukai? Monkey D. Dragon, Kuma... however that doesn't fit Ivankov... =/

Dasbones
July 28, 2010, 11:10 PM
Maybe animals like the Shichibukai? Monkey D. Dragon, Kuma... however that doesn't fit Ivankov... =/

Ivankov is a sexy BEAST

Sorry, couldn't resist :s


I'm sure Dragon has an inside man with the WG (altough that probably WAS Kuma, but who knows with him these days), mayhaps Cipher Pol Member, or even just a police captain, someone who has some amount of power.

Zoro's Sensei would be a nice addition, he may not be a commander, but he is at least a contributor

kkck
July 29, 2010, 06:51 AM
Wonder how strong zoro's sensei actually is lol.... He does not seem like a particularly big deal but perhaps he is a beast....

vagabond87
July 29, 2010, 07:14 AM
Koushiro is beast because he wield one of the 21 greatest blades in one piece world- certainly this is not coincidence. He must be strong and skilled enough to use it to its full extent. He trained Zoro and told him about hearing voice of all things so he knows how to use it and how it works. When he saw Zoros bounty he said as long as Zoro valued his Swordsmanship he didn't care if he had became a pirate. So maby he isnt living life we think he is living. Last thing that he looks like perfectly calm person and his reaction to death of his daughter- "humans are fragile" - isnt anything "normal"- if Kuina really died he must have been though A LOT before to react in that way.

Aikidoka
August 01, 2010, 05:11 AM
Koshiro is a maybe. I would like for him to feature somewhere in the story's future, but if he really was a commander would it have been as simple as "Oh and the local dojo gave us food"? Then again, perhaps he had quit to raise his daughter, and with Kuina gone he may have rejoined? There are definitely possibilities as far as Koshiro is concerned.

But if not Koshiro, because it's Oda, someone we have already met will be a revolutionary. It's probably just a matter of narrowing down who. I like the Koshiro theory also, but I'd be happy to see like one of those marines we see around but don't focus on too much to suddenly show their double agent status or something (e.g. imagine Garp's right hand man suddenly being all revolutionary).
Haha, I could see that. Garp's right hand certainly does look a bit like some of those Revolutionaries. Plus he hasn't even been featured much, which is kind of weird...

I'm going to jump on the Koshiro wagon, all the evidence people have brought up doesn't actually support it but doesn't reject it either. I'm also curious as to why Oda included that scene of the RA stopping by at the dojo in Chapter 598...he had to have some reason besides show kid Zoro (which he could've done without the RA).


How about Aokiji being a commander for the RA? It would make sense that the revolutionaries have some spies in the WG. So why not in the upper echelons? And I picked Aokiji because of his moral compass which sets him aside from the other admirals.
Even without the whole Robin thing, keep in mind that the Revolutionaries aren't exactly pleasant people either. They're using violence to achieve their means (granted, offscreen violence, but still), and Ivankov has been shown to be somewhat ruthless to enemies himself.


Wonder if jimbei would become a leader of the revolutionary army. He is quite powerful and would be a mayor asset in a fight anywhere. With WB loosing influence and the fact that he is right now a extremely wanted man he'd certainly be someone to take an opportunity such as that. If jimbei becomes a leader then the loss of WB's influence would be less detrimental to fishman island for one thing. Fishman island would get newfound protection from the revolutionary army and furthermore, they'd also have protection from WB's crew. Jimbei would also be fighting for a new order which could potentially be far more benefitial to the fishmen and mermen. This could also result in conflict between the WB pirates and the revolutinary army though (even though it could also result in a partial alliance). Dunno, this seems like a very logical development IMO.
But would the RA be able to afford protecting Fishman Island? From what we've seen so far they don't seem to have the kind of monster-like reputation WB had...what if by announcing their alliance they'd just draw even more Marines there in an attempt to capture some RA leaders? Maybe they wouldn't have to outright announce the alliance, but even so, that's a chunk of manpower they'd have to spare to protect it.

Not discouraging your idea, I think it would be cool. Just debating for the sake of it.

EDIT: Come to think of it, maybe there's another reason for the RA flashback in 589. Sabo was presumed dead in that chapter, right? And he has a grudge against the WG, perfect for the Revolutionaries. The RAs were shown to be in East Blue at the time...could they have picked him up then?

I know someone's already suggested his being part of the RAs now, I just think this might be how he made it.

kkck
August 02, 2010, 09:28 AM
Not sure about monster like reputations.... Quite frankly, reputation wise I had the impression dragon was seen as much as a monster as roger was.... I don't think he is seen as less than a threat than WB was. Technically speaking, dragon IS the most wanted man in the world, that means also more wanted than WB. I think the WB and dragon threats are simply being treated differently. WB had his territory and provided he wasn't messed with he'd remain calm but in turn dragon is actively fighting the WG, he is constantly stirring up things to remove countries from the WG control.

goldb
August 09, 2010, 08:18 PM
Some of the RA leaders could be Kings and Queens of certain kingdoms like Iva was or people with certain amount of power. I'm pretty sure there's at least 1 or 2 active pirate crews there.

Lyn685
August 10, 2010, 07:15 AM
Why shouldn´t Inazuma be a commander? Sure, we didn´t really see much of him, but according to Ivankov he is a highly important member of the RA.
Maybe Ina will get more important as soon as the Strawhats finally meet the Revolutionaries

kkck
August 10, 2010, 09:14 AM
True, inazuna is an important leader in the RA, that much is fact. In newkama kingdom he would seem to be below ivankov but I'd venture a guess and say that in the RA he has roughly the same standing as ivankov. He has a sick ability and probably has a lot more power than what we give him credit for. He seems to be kinda on his 30's or something and he was in level 5, meaning his bounty was enough to make him a supernova at some point.... I'd think he is actually far from being at the level of a rookie though.

Uriel
August 10, 2010, 02:03 PM
Maybe animals like the Shichibukai? Monkey D. Dragon, Kuma... however that doesn't fit Ivankov... =/
I thought the same and Ivankov was the thing that stopped me.

So I want to know if there is a legend with a bear, a transgender (Or a character that change his sex to achieve something) and a dragon.

kkck
August 10, 2010, 02:40 PM
Maybe the revolutionary leaders will be based on minorities/races? We have transgender/okama, perhaps then we will see blacks, mestizos, natives, indians..... Oda would be getting into a controvertial zone though.... Can't imagine all revolutionaries being okama's though. Perhaps the revolutionaries could also be based on other revolutionaries of sorts or generals. Can anyone associate the names of ivankov or inazuma with important names in history?

Fox666
August 10, 2010, 02:57 PM
Well, I expect him to be one of the commanders... the dude is quite strong.

goldb
August 10, 2010, 03:22 PM
I still have my doubts over that, so it remains to be seen. A quick point on what kkck said, I hope we do see a variety of people as commanders of the RA. I hope we see a giant there, maybe a long-armed and fishman there too. Maybe some of the islands the SHs have been sent to have ties to the RA too :s and not just a means for them to develop.

Aikidoka
August 10, 2010, 03:29 PM
I thought the same and Ivankov was the thing that stopped me.

So I want to know if there is a legend with a bear, a transgender (Or a character that change his sex to achieve something) and a dragon.
Well, okamas are a sort of race in the OP world. =P

j/k

Ivankov is actually a special case, since Oda apparently based him off of Luffy's seiyu's colleague. The animal theme could still hold true, ignoring Ivankov who had a different inspiration.

Uriel
August 11, 2010, 12:59 AM
Well, okamas are a sort of race in the OP world. =P
j/k
Ivankov is actually a special case, since Oda apparently based him off of Luffy's seiyu's colleague. The animal theme could still hold true, ignoring Ivankov who had a different inspiration.
LOL! And I know about it, but I think Oda can pull out something with it.

Maybe what kkck syas is true and Oda inspires the characters in minorities. Transgender Ivankov can be related with Kuma the Bear (With the Bears as social movement) also if we think about it.
So if we see a feminine woman, a hippie, a black strong men, a native, a gipsy, a jew-like, a russian and something like that we may be right.

I know I'm using stereotypes, but please do not feel offended by this.

kkck
August 11, 2010, 09:30 AM
^How are russians a minority? There is at least 141 mil of them in their country... Not sure how'd that be a minority lol. Perhaps they'd be one in japan but it'd still be weird. Whats the bears social movement though? If the RA is to be based on minorities then we are bound to see OP minorities in it too. There would definitely be merman, giants, people with two elbows.... I recall there was a list with slaves to be sold back at SA too.
http://www.cloudmanga.com/One_Piece/501/

Bugzee
August 12, 2010, 11:44 AM
Well, I expect him to be one of the commanders... the dude is quite strong.

Inazuma definitely has a pretty cool and useful df ability. I'm suprised his not actually a commander but then again that may not necessarily be a bad thing because I'm sure they'll be more powerful and beast-like commanders that'll be introduced later on. Inazuma suits being the "underlining" whom works under a commander imo. The Iva x Inazuma combo has worked really well so far.

I wonder if we'll see some commanders that are from different/unique races...like those demons (E.g. Magellan), angels (Sky Island) or even a Fishmen Commander would be pretty awesome to see. :tem

kkck
August 12, 2010, 11:57 AM
Wasn't inazuma refered to as a revolutionary leader just as ivankov? I was under the impression both of them had the same rank.

Bugzee
August 12, 2010, 12:30 PM
Wasn't inazuma refered to as a revolutionary leader just as ivankov? I was under the impression both of them had the same rank.

Initially, that's what I thought when we were first introduced to both Inazuma and Iva but she actually serves (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Inazuma)under Iva. :amuse

Lyn685
August 12, 2010, 12:30 PM
Wasn't inazuma refered to as a revolutionary leader just as ivankov? I was under the impression both of them had the same rank.
It was said that he was a very important newcomer in the RA.
So his chances to be or become a Commander of the Revolutionaries are quite high I would say.

Well, at least we can say that he, as the "Right Hand" of Ivankov, King/Queen of the Okamas, is the second most important Okama in the world. And to me that sounds like its quite something, if only in One Piece. Maybe he even has the right to be the heir apparent of the Kamabakka-Kingdom or something like that.

But in the end, the discussion about if Inazuma is a commander is pretty much useless, because we don´t know what it takes to become a commander.

PS: Did anyone notice that Inazuma seems to be the only female Okama in the Kamabakka Kingdom?

kkck
August 12, 2010, 02:48 PM
Initially, that's what I thought when we were first introduced to both Inazuma and Iva but she actually serves (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Inazuma)under Iva. :amuse

Remember the wikia is written by fans. I don't think the manga has directly stated inazuma is ivankov's subordinate. He does seem to follow ivakov but that does not necessarily translate into him being a subordinate or inferior in rank in the RA.

Bugzee
August 12, 2010, 03:56 PM
Remember the wikia is written by fans.

That's a given.


I don't think the manga has directly stated inazuma is ivankov's subordinate. He does seem to follow ivakov but that does not necessarily translate into him being a subordinate or inferior in rank in the RA.

If he was a commander then what's the benefit of Oda keeping it a secret for this long!? Iva being a confirmed RV commander seems to easily give Inazuma orders/commands whereas Inazuma himself rarely gives orders to Iva; thus it's kinda obvious that his rank maybe of a lower status to a RV Commander. Sure, it's been hinted and indicated that Inazuma is "an important nakama" of the RV's but I don't think his a commander like Iva. The emphasis on being an "important nakama" can relate to thousands things and one, off course being his df ability imo.

kkck
August 12, 2010, 04:18 PM
http://www.cloudmanga.com/One_Piece/549/

This is rather crysptic... inazuma was considered important enough by ivankov so that he would rather not have significant help from him duting most of the way so that he would get to live longer. Dunno, even if not a commader he is still very high ranked and probably respected as much as a commader. Not to mention he was in level 5 which considering he is not a rookie of any sort he is probably considered a greater threat than a supernova.

Lord Rayleigh
August 12, 2010, 05:00 PM
I wonder if we'll see some commanders that are from different/unique races...like those demons (E.g. Magellan), angels (Sky Island) or even a Fishmen Commander would be pretty awesome to see. :tem
Magellan is not a demon, and there is no demon species for the moment. The black wings are clothes made for some Impel Down Officers - Magellan, Hannyabal, Saldeath and Shiliew. Remember that the wings are a symbol of Impel Down - see its flag.

When Hannyabal's clothes are taken by Bon-chan, his wings have disappeared. In the ID flashback, Shiliew also had wings and does not have them anymore.

Bugzee
August 12, 2010, 06:02 PM
Magellan is not a demon, and there is no demon species for the moment. The black wings are clothes made for some Impel Down Officers - Magellan, Hannyabal, Saldeath and Shiliew. Remember that the wings are a symbol of Impel Down - see its flag.

When Hannyabal's clothes are taken by Bon-chan, his wings have disappeared. In the ID flashback, Shiliew also had wings and does not have them anymore.

My bad. Well, those wings and their appearances do look demon-like imo anyway. It would still be pretty cool if we did see such a race in the OP world.

I can't wait to see more of these commanders that will soon gather together by Dragon's request/command. It's gonna be an awesome sight to see. :D

Lord Rayleigh
August 12, 2010, 06:40 PM
I was also disappointed when I realised there were not demons. I liked this idea a lot.

With the longarm thiefs saying there aren't any demon in this world, I think there's not a lot of chance. Anyway, it wouldn't be as cool as I thought it was with some Impel Down workers.

Lyn685
August 13, 2010, 02:03 AM
Inazuma isn´t a subordinate to Ivankov because he has a lower rank in the RA, he´s a subordinate to him because Crab-chan has a lower rank under the Okamas than Iva.
Whatever rank Inazuma has in the RA, Iva is still the Queen of all Okamas, which makes Ina a subordinate.

What I also think is interesting is that Dragon not only wants to talk to Iva because of Kuma, but also with Inazuma at the same time.
So he treats them both pretty much equal.

Aikidoka
August 13, 2010, 04:31 AM
I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. It's not like 'leader' is an umbrella rank, within the leaders there are smaller subdivisions.

Inazuma was stated to be a leader in South Blue, but he may have been a lower rank of leader than Iva was, similar to how Admirals have more authority than Vice-Admirals, despite both being leaders.

chess4
August 13, 2010, 09:19 AM
I agree....if I had 2 rank them like the marines, I would say dragon is the fleet admiral and kuma and invonkov were]are admirals and inazuma is a vice admiral. I'm not comparing strength but more based on decision making and respect.

If I had 2 guess we will see 8 more main commanders

Samui
August 16, 2010, 06:20 PM
I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. It's not like 'leader' is an umbrella rank, within the leaders there are smaller subdivisions.

Inazuma was stated to be a leader in South Blue, but he may have been a lower rank of leader than Iva was, similar to how Admirals have more authority than Vice-Admirals, despite both being leaders.
It was never stated that Inazuma is a a Revolutionary Leader in South Blue. Just that he's a Revolutionary from South Blue who was imprisoned in Level 5. That's all.

RezzieThaRapper
August 21, 2010, 07:57 AM
I wonder if the revolutionaries will have their own kind of super group...

like the 11 Supernovas, or the 7 Shichibukai, the 4 Yonkou, The 5 Elder Stars

Maybe will get a anagram to one of these groups... not a literal anagram, but the figure of speech...

goldb
August 21, 2010, 12:40 PM
I hope so. I want the Leaders to be some super awesome group of people with maybe vary unique skills and abilities. Things that set them apart from pirates.

chess4
October 25, 2010, 03:31 PM
Was looking back at an old episode...zoro's master has 2 be a revolutionary commander. He was explaining 2 zoro about the breath of all things, so its safe 2 say he is a master of it. The breath of all things has not been proven 2 be haki yet but I'm sure its a form of COA.

Either way I just hope he is a commander so I can see him in action. When the big war takes place it would be great to see zoro and his old master fighting side by side.


i also think that sabo and chimney's father both are commanders in the revolutionary army. i willing to bet anything that dragons top commanders will be parallel to the strawhats. we already have 2 comparisons in that kuma and frankie are both cyborgs and invonkov and sanji are newkama kenpo masters. sanji has his own style of it but you get what im saying.

chess4
April 08, 2011, 12:19 PM
hopefully we will see a snippet of them soon but maybe not.

Jorge D. Dragon
April 12, 2011, 10:51 AM
It would be deffinetly great to see them in action. And I believe we'll eventually see them in the next or in the second Arc of New World.:)
It would be really interesting to see the meeting between Luffy and Dragon.:)

NANLIT
April 15, 2011, 05:22 PM
About Zoro's old teacher being in the RA, although it would be interesting, I have my doubts because of the way Zoro's teacher was before Kuina's death (I'm not sure if he changed after her death or not). I'm talking about him thinking females can't be better than males and I doubt Iva, who doesn't care about gender and can change genders as well as anyone else's gender, would get along with him at all. I think Iva would be likely to change him into a female to teach him a lesson about genders.

Zeltrax
April 16, 2011, 12:28 AM
^ Wouldn't that make him the zoro of the RA and iva the sanji of the RA,
they disagree with each other don't they ;).

If anyday the RA and the SH really clash, I do want to see Sanji surpassing Ivankov at that moment and zoro fighting against a swordsman in the RA.

There must be a swordsman, I just know it :ninja

xeteboi
April 16, 2011, 04:57 AM
I would love to share my idea about the RA's..

Firstly, Dragon with his all commanders is quite stronger than the WB pirates and his allies IMO. Dragon is very aware about the WG, just like that he knows that the WB pirates will lose to the WG in the Marineford Battle and they are not ready yet cause if he really wants to take down the WG, that is the opportunity for him, joining the WB pirates in battle..

I also think that Sabo is still alive and he is with the RA's as a commander...
Kuma turning into a cyborg? that's is a puzzle for me cause Doflamingo said that he bore such a hatred to the WG..Maybe, he is some sort of spy with Oda's plans. ^^

Channy
April 18, 2011, 10:37 AM
What if people from some of the islands that the SH have been too are part of the revolutionaries such as Dalton and Doc K ( I cant remember her name) because there were part of a repressive monarchy and then weren't anymore so maybe Dragon came and gave them aid but then enlisted some people off the island

Also i think there might be a possibility that King Cobra and his army are part of the revolutionaries like what if Dragon a long time ago was about to take down the Arabasta Kingdom and then he saw how much the people loved cobra and enlisted some top people as like reserves or something

I dont know it seems like a far fetched theory but i think it would be cool

kkck
April 18, 2011, 12:47 PM
Dalton is the king of his country and as far as we know it is still a part of the world government. I doubt he could be a leader. Kurena would be interesting but she is far to apathetic to be a part of such a grand scale thing IMO. As of now I can only see zoro's master as a potential member of the revolutionaries.He is bound to be a decent swordsman and the revolutionaries already had help from him before. He is bound to be important in a near future, I doubt his role would be limited to the background.

Cobra is also a part of the world government for that matter. He was even at a meeting in which people spoke against dragon. It would be very unwise to openly be a member of the revolutionaries, it would be a hazard for him and his people as the government might retaliate. Heck, dealing with his country would be easy, a single VA would most likely take it out considering the strongest soldiers there were not even as strong as luffy at the time. As it stands it would perhaps make more sense for cobra to be an enemy of the revolutionaries than a member.

It would be interesting to see CP9 as members of the revolutionaries. They are not wanted by the government and have a lot of experience fighting and in assassinations along with being in the know of very important information. I wouldn't find it that weird if the revolutionaries would try to give them a place to use their strength.

chess4
April 18, 2011, 01:19 PM
yea as i of right now we dont know how they are broken down as far as rank. we know dragon is the leader but thats about it. we know dragon, invonkov, kuma, and inazuma for sure, but of all the characters we have seen up to this point i think zoro's master and sabo(thats if he is alive) have a chance of being apart of the RA.

if dragon is taking on the WG then his commanders should all be around kuma or invonkov's strength level.

im looking forward to seeing them more than the other 2 yonkou.

NANLIT
April 18, 2011, 08:38 PM
Me too. Dragon's my favorite One Piece character and the RA is my favorite organization in One Piece. It probably helps that I despise the WG and their aim is to overthrow the WG. Finding new info about the RA (including meeting new members) is always welcome to me.

I've thought of the idea of the former CP9 members being members of the RA before. They should have a lot of secret WG info that the RA would love to have, they have mostly have animal forms/themes and based on the clothing of some of the RA, they are animal-based clothing, plus the irony is that they were defeated by the SH and Luffy is Dragon's son.

Realtwisted
April 19, 2011, 03:29 PM
Sabo, past was not told for no reason. I am hoping, begging that Sabo is alive, and i wonder what path this his brother took, is he with him or what.
[hr]
The RV commander are to be as strong or stronger then a Shi.

chess4
April 19, 2011, 03:32 PM
Sabo, past was not told for no reason. I am hoping, begging that Sabo is alive, and i wonder what path this his brother took, is he with him or what.
<hr noshade size="1">
The RV commander are to be as strong or stronger then a Shi.

if oda does not play the amnesia card with sabo thei dont see how h ill explain not coming to save ace

scandalous'
April 19, 2011, 03:34 PM
I was hoping that dragon was a bad ass among bad asses. Being able to take out admirals on his own in a 1on1 battle. But seeing as whitebeard was supposedly the strongest character in the series and he somewhat struggled (I know sh!t circumstances for whitebeard). It just changed my perspective on how strong dragon and his revolutionary commanders really are. I just hope the other commanders are more bad ass than iva. But I don't think that dragon will disappoint and show us that he's strong, really strong.

Uriel
April 19, 2011, 11:20 PM
Whitebeard WAS the strongest after Roger's death. Reputation made its way up to the war when it was finally confronted. It's also a view from WG, which means it's partial and not complete. The tittle is not by any means the real "strongest" man in the world but the one that Marine thought it was because no one claimed for it after Roger's death.

Meh, I don't know if I'm clear about this, but what I'm trying to say is that "the strongest man" is just an epithet and not a real way to measure strength of other characters.

sh4dx
April 20, 2011, 08:28 AM
i also have the impresion that Dragon will be stronger than WB, or at least a bit stronger enough to handle and beat down an admiral(after a hard fight ofcourse or else wb or even rayliegh would seem like joke) and i am sure iva isn't one of his stronger commanders and we will see at least 3-4 commander around Kuma or even stronger than him or else the RA has no chance to overthrow the WG.

chess4
April 20, 2011, 10:13 AM
i think that ivankov is one of the RA's top commanders. remember invonkov took on kuma at marineford. i think WB was the strongest man in the world but he was sick, but i still think that dragon is a straight monster. im sure he is easily as strong as one of the admirals.

i think garp and sengoku were the navy's advantage but they are now retired

sh4dx
April 20, 2011, 10:50 AM
i think that ivankov is one of the RA's top commanders. remember invonkov took on kuma at marineford. i think WB was the strongest man in the world but he was sick, but i still think that dragon is a straight monster. im sure he is easily as strong as one of the admirals.

i think garp and sengoku were the navy's advantage but they are now retired

sure iva is one of the top commanders i didn't say that, i just (want to) believe that there are some stronger than him and makes sense because kuma at marineford was already "dead" he was PX-0 so we don't know if he is stronger than he was while he was concious (though i don't believe that, i am sure that kuma at TB and sabondy is lot more stronger than as completely PX-0) and after with akainu he didn't stand even a lil of a fight.With magelan we don't know exactly what happened but he was beaten easily as we saw and magelan was a little bit bloody at his head.

yes i have the same impresion that garp,sengoku and ofcourse kong and the gorousei maybe strogner than the admirals but Oda maybe come with (they are old so the Admiral are the strongest force)

kkck
April 20, 2011, 12:07 PM
i also have the impresion that Dragon will be stronger than WB, or at least a bit stronger enough to handle and beat down an admiral(after a hard fight ofcourse or else wb or even rayliegh would seem like joke) and i am sure iva isn't one of his stronger commanders and we will see at least 3-4 commander around Kuma or even stronger than him or else the RA has no chance to overthrow the WG.

Well, iva was able to beat kuma around. I don't think there is that much difference between them. I guess it depends on how many commanders there are. Kuma and iva have shown an incredibly high level and even inazuma who was merely a high ranking officer showed decent skill. I don't think they will disappoint.

sh4dx
April 20, 2011, 12:32 PM
Well, iva was able to beat kuma around. I don't think there is that much difference between them. I guess it depends on how many commanders there are. Kuma and iva have shown an incredibly high level and even inazuma who was merely a high ranking officer showed decent skill. I don't think they will disappoint.

i told it before kuma was back there completery PX-0 and i think it's clearly that he isn't as strong as his "normal" self.Sure iva and even inazuma have shown that they are strong but not strong ENOUGH to match up against an admiral (not to win or handle a good fight just to at least defend themselfes a little, as seen they both got down very easily against akainu) and the same against magelan whom sure is very strong and all but a strong commander could handle a fight against him with haki(maybe iva has control over haki but we don't know because it was an offscreen defeat with magelan bleeding a little little bit, and inazuma even the slightiest(spel?) dagame) or with DF power like KUMA
[hr]

Well, iva was able to beat kuma around. I don't think there is that much difference between them. I guess it depends on how many commanders there are. Kuma and iva have shown an incredibly high level and even inazuma who was merely a high ranking officer showed decent skill. I don't think they will disappoint.

i told it before kuma was back there completery PX-0 and i think it's clearly that he isn't as strong as his "normal" self.Sure iva and even inazuma have shown that they are strong but not strong ENOUGH to match up against an admiral (not to win or handle a good fight just to at least defend themselfes a little, as seen they both got down very easily against akainu) and the same against magelan whom sure is very strong and all but a strong commander could handle a fight against him with haki(maybe iva has control over haki but we don't know because it was an offscreen defeat with magelan bleeding a little little bit, and inazuma even the slightiest(spel?) dagame) or with DF power like Kuma

If you believe that kuma and iva are around the same level then you didn't pay attention my friend..Kuma was completely PX0 back at marineford and i am sure that with his "normal" self he is MUCH stronger than a completely machine.iva hasn't done anything impresive so far but kuma on the other side has done many(i don't think there is a reason to write them because you are an OP reader.

kkck
April 20, 2011, 12:33 PM
Why wouldn't he be as strong as his normal self? He had a stronger body and his fruit ability. Seriously, what evidence do we have to support that idea? I doubt the world government would modify him to make him weaker.

Kuma has a strong ability but I do have my doubts he really would be admiral level just because of his fruit though. It was strong but do we have anything to go on about which would support such a claim? Obviously he can repel stuff with his paws but if his defense for whatever reason does not make it in time he will be hit pretty hard. As we saw with luffy, zoro, sanji and boa his body even if strong will take a lot of damage from attacks from actual strong people.

sh4dx
April 20, 2011, 12:54 PM
Well, iva was able to beat kuma around. I don't think there is that much difference between them. I guess it depends on how many commanders there are. Kuma and iva have shown an incredibly high level and even inazuma who was merely a high ranking officer showed decent skill. I don't think they will disappoint.

i told it before kuma was back there completery PX-0 and i think it's clearly that he isn't as strong as his "normal" self.Sure iva and even inazuma have shown that they are strong but not strong ENOUGH to match up against an admiral (not to win or handle a good fight just to at least defend themselfes a little, as seen they both got down very easily against akainu) and the same against magelan whom sure is very strong and all but a strong commander could handle a fight against him with haki(maybe iva has control over haki but we don't know because it was an offscreen defeat with magelan bleeding a little little bit, and inazuma didn't even done the slightiest(spel?) dagame) or with DF power like Kuma

If you believe that kuma and iva are around the same level then you didn't pay attention my friend..Kuma was completely PX0 back at marineford and i am sure that with his "normal" self he is MUCH stronger than a completely machine.iva hasn't done anything impresive so far but kuma on the other side has done many(i don't think there is a reason to write them because you are an OP reader.

My point is that i didn't say iva is weak BUT the RA MUST have stronger commander like kuma (at least 3-4) or else they don't stand a chance to overthrow the WG except if Dragon can match up against example let's say the 3 Admirals together which i find it ridiculous from oda to do that or else wb and rayliegh would seem like joke.Sure at the end of the series will be a war as WB said and the SH and many allies will help the RA but i don't think that Dragon's strongest commander are around iva's level he MUST have some stronger than him/her
[hr]

Why wouldn't he be as strong as his normal self? He had a stronger body and his fruit ability. Seriously, what evidence do we have to support that idea? I doubt the world government would modify him to make him weaker.

Kuma has a strong ability but I do have my doubts he really would be admiral level just because of his fruit though. It was strong but do we have anything to go on about which would support such a claim? Obviously he can repel stuff with his paws but if his defense for whatever reason does not make it in time he will be hit pretty hard. As we saw with luffy, zoro, sanji and boa his body even if strong will take a lot of damage from attacks from actual strong people.

I didn't say that Kuma is around Admiral level, i didn't mean that if you understood that.About him as a PX-0 i said it's just my opinion but he didn't seem as strong and "smart fighter" as seen at TB.Even if you think he is stronger as PX-0 than his "normal" self just tell me what impresive iva had done comperable to Kuma.Also you believe that iva will be one of Dragon's top3 commanders and didn't even stand a chance against an admiral or even magelan ?

anyway the topic it's about the leaders and we make it seem like a kuma vs iva!!My point it's just that iva isn't one of let's say Dragon top 3 or 5 commanders(with top i mean really strong fighters that can even handle a little fight with the admirals and so on) while he has maybe 10 or 20 or whatever number

Uriel
April 20, 2011, 01:04 PM
Why Haki would stop Magellan? And if you notice, He left there alive and fought after that in the war and left harmless after all finished. I wouldn't say AT ALL that Iva is not at the same level of Kuma.

You've to think that Magellan is Impel Down Main Chief, he needs to have a force equal to admirals to refrain those convicts. I look at him as the "forth" admiral. And admirals have the potential to become the Float Admiral as well.

You're seeing ranks as static ranges of powers when they're more flexible areas in which a fighter enters. More in the marine where other things comes to consideration.

And so far, we can't deny or assure if Dragon uses the same hierarchy than WG. I doubt it, since it's "revolution"...I bet it's horizontal chain of command (And power)

sh4dx
April 20, 2011, 01:12 PM
Why Haki would stop Magellan? And if you notice, He left there alive and fought after that in the war and left harmless after all finished. I wouldn't say AT ALL that Iva is not at the same level of Kuma.

You've to think that Magellan is Impel Down Main Chief, he needs to have a force equal to admirals to refrain those convicts. I look at him as the "forth" admiral. And admirals have the potential to become the Float Admiral as well.

You're seeing ranks as static ranges of powers when they're more flexible areas in which a fighter enters. More in the marine where other things comes to consideration.

And so far, we can't deny or assure if Dragon uses the same hierarchy than WG. I doubt it, since it's "revolution"...I bet it's horizontal chain of command (And power)

If you think magelan as the 4th admiral then you didn't read well.Magelan would be dead if he had got hit like akainu from wb.Sure he is strong and all but i don't think he is near their level.And haki WOULD stop magelan because if you can dodge his attack and have CoA you can touch him/hit him too.Right now i woulnd't be surprised if luffy can beat him.

Iva left from there alive just because of his hormones and nothing else.You said it alone he fought on the war but what exactly did he/she done?Nothing impresive all he/she did was to have a little skirmish against PX-0 and got beaten by akainu very easily.

Then again where did you think that i think about the ranks and all this ?I didn't mean anything about these,i will say it AGAIN, when the RA and iva specificaly told us that in the RA exists the TOP commanders such him and Kuma i said that if Dragon for example let's say he has 10 commander the 3 of them will be much more strong and powerful than Iva and the others, nothing else.I think i made it clear now, please i don't want to post the same thing again and again read my posts carefully

Uriel
April 21, 2011, 08:23 PM
I wont argue you, but you have assumed too many things about Haki. :/

And I wont enter again in discussion about Ivankov, there was more "powerful" users that did nothing in the war just because they were not in the spotlight and not because of that I would say they're weak (Namely, VA's)

kkck
April 21, 2011, 10:59 PM
If you think magelan as the 4th admiral then you didn't read well.Magelan would be dead if he had got hit like akainu from wb.Sure he is strong and all but i don't think he is near their level.And haki WOULD stop magelan because if you can dodge his attack and have CoA you can touch him/hit him too.Right now i woulnd't be surprised if luffy can beat him.

Iva left from there alive just because of his hormones and nothing else.You said it alone he fought on the war but what exactly did he/she done?Nothing impresive all he/she did was to have a little skirmish against PX-0 and got beaten by akainu very easily.

Then again where did you think that i think about the ranks and all this ?I didn't mean anything about these,i will say it AGAIN, when the RA and iva specificaly told us that in the RA exists the TOP commanders such him and Kuma i said that if Dragon for example let's say he has 10 commander the 3 of them will be much more strong and powerful than Iva and the others, nothing else.I think i made it clear now, please i don't want to post the same thing again and again read my posts carefully

Why would haki help against magellan? I guess you could reflect poison to an extent but I doubt haki would be a perfect defense. And you don't really need haki to hit magellan as he is not a logia.... Now, people with real power would probably deal with the situation differently. A speed monster or someone with observation haki probably could evade his poison and deal a fatal hit.....

xeteboi
April 22, 2011, 03:43 AM
Why would haki help against magellan? I guess you could reflect poison to an extent but I doubt haki would be a perfect defense. And you don't really need haki to hit magellan as he is not a logia.... Now, people with real power would probably deal with the situation differently. A speed monster or someone with observation haki probably could evade his poison and deal a fatal hit.....

Actually, haki could help in fighting against Magellan in my opinion especially the COA. Just what Shanks did stopping the hound blaze of Akainu. Magellan is semi - intangible even if he is not a logia cause he can make his body a pure venom and not all logias are intangible just like Blackbeared.

Freid
April 22, 2011, 09:43 AM
A haki user will probably be able to attack Magellan without the double edged consequence. Take Daz Bones for example: Even though his body is steel, he can still be hit and injured if the person is powerful enough to do so, like Zoro demonstrated. Zoro had to cut through his steel in order to injure him. However, if a haki user were to attack Daz Bones, the haki user won't literally be cutting through his steel body like Zoro did to injure and defeat him, but they will directly be attacking his actual body. The fact that Daz Bones is steel becomes irrelevant against a haki user.

Similarly, Magellan's body is poison but can still be hit and injured if somebody is willing to face the consequences, but somebody using haki to attack him will not be attacking him the generic way. They will be directly attacking his real body. Like Daz Bones, Magellan's poison body will become irrelevant. However, the poison that he shoots and separates from his body will still need to be evaded because there is no essence of his body in there. It is just the poison substance, and so the concept of haki does not apply to it because it is defined as the ability to exploit the weakness of the devil fruit users themselves and attack their real body.

The same idea is also applicable to the scene where Shanks and Akainu's clashed. Although Akainu was covered in magma, Shanks stopped his magma punch because it was still his actual arm.

Rayleigh compared haki to a hardened suit of armor that can be used as a weapon. Take the concept of an armor and apply it to a haki user. As they are attacking the body of a devil fruit user, the armor protects them from the user's harmful body or just negates their ability in that area.

However, with that said, the individual haki strength of both the haki user and the devil fruit user will probably compromise this basic law like what possibly happened with Marco + Vista vs Akainu.

kkck
April 22, 2011, 10:48 AM
Actually, haki could help in fighting against Magellan in my opinion especially the COA. Just what Shanks did stopping the hound blaze of Akainu. Magellan is semi - intangible even if he is not a logia cause he can make his body a pure venom and not all logias are intangible just like Blackbeared.

Magellan is not semi intangible. He is as solid as the most ordinary of humans. I don't think there is a single manga instance where he showed any degree of intangibility. At most his body was covered in poison but that is not the same as not being solid.

sh4dx
April 22, 2011, 12:47 PM
I wont argue you, but you have assumed too many things about Haki. :/

And I wont enter again in discussion about Ivankov, there was more "powerful" users that did nothing in the war just because they were not in the spotlight and not because of that I would say they're weak (Namely, VA's)

i don't think i have assume anything special about haki i think it's common sense.what exactly is the thing that it's so exaggerated that didn't make sense?And personaly i think that VA are nothing special, especialy now compare to the post TS SH.

kkck
April 22, 2011, 01:24 PM
If the VA really were nothing special then the world government would be screwed though. Surely military strength is in itself important but in OP even something like that is not that big a deal without a strong backbone so to speak. If the VA were nothing special then the only strong people in the military would be the admirals, garp and sengoku which IMO would make no sense. Admirals seem very capable of haki and rokushiki and IMO that is a dangerous combination. A battleship or two is something the strawhats could handle easily by now, the VA need to be strong for them to be relevant to the story and for the strawhats to have enemies other than the admirals in the world government. Besides, there has to be a reason for oda to keep the strength of the VA hidden even during the war.

sh4dx
April 22, 2011, 04:37 PM
guys honestly the VA so far seem to be around luffy/zoro level pro TS.
Sure they are the second strongest military force under the admirals but yet most of them have done nothing except of Onigumo who handcuffed marco
Maybe Oda is planning to show their strenght at the NW but considering that luffy before timeskip defeated enemies like croc,lucci,moria and enel(ok that was just because he was his natural element) even if we say he lost 2 matches against croc or that he had help against moria(that i think it's the same from moria's side because he had the help of oars/oz zombie so until he got the 1000 shadows and going crazy there wasn't a clear one on one and then he got beaten) the VA are nowhere near as seen from the meeting on marijoa with dofla toying around with the VA or momonga stabbed himself to avoid petrifying from hancock wich i am sure a really strong character wouldn't do it.
Even Oda said about the 3 great power etc etc.. and i see many believe that the VA are around shichibukai level(though it's clear that it isn't any specific level because some of them are stronger than the other) which i think it's ridiculous because there would be no point to have them if 2-3 VA are stronger lets say moria who is clearly the weakest.
Some of them sure seems like beasts like yamakaji,onigumo and garp is on his own league(even if he retired) but nowhere near the strenght of the strongest shichi maybe they can have a good fight OR even win only against moria.
My point is that if pre timeskip luffy had the power even with some help as some of you said to match up against some shichi,( lucci who was clearly very powerful villain it was clearly 1on1), i will be VERY VERY disapointed if in the new world Oda will start to throw more than 2-3 VA that can match up against the monster trio..I think it would ruin the whole "2 years training" if suddenly ex. momonga, shows up and give luffy or most likely zoro(both swordsman) a hard time
[hr]

Why would haki help against magellan? I guess you could reflect poison to an extent but I doubt haki would be a perfect defense. And you don't really need haki to hit magellan as he is not a logia.... Now, people with real power would probably deal with the situation differently. A speed monster or someone with observation haki probably could evade his poison and deal a fatal hit.....

haki will CLEARLY help against magellan because rayliegh clearly said that it can be used like a hardened armor,and as you said with CoO and CoA it's enough to fight against not even magelan who is just a very strong paramecia df user but even with the logias as it has been seen.I don't understand how you don't need haki to hit magelan,even mr3 after magelan went to his "venom demon" move he could do anything so you clearly MUST have CoA to hit him.

Uriel
April 22, 2011, 04:40 PM
i don't think i have assume anything special about haki i think it's common sense.what exactly is the thing that it's so exaggerated that didn't make sense?And personaly i think that VA are nothing special, especialy now compare to the post TS SH.
Common sense? Busoshoku only affects the function of DF. For Logias, implies a hit among other things. For Paramecia, stop being what it does. Luffy doesn't stop to be a rubber, only for the moment and in the place hit. Same as Magellan, in which while you punch him stopping to produce venom He already filled the place with it. You don't make yourself immune, just avoid for one second the production of it.
Busoshoku doesn't give you protection, it's for offensive alone as we saw.

And VA are not admiral because there can be only 3 of them. :/ VA's are potential Admirals and therefore also potential Float Admiral as well. They're the elite of WG. Nothing? Well, I personally think that Luffy is at that level currently and able to defeat some of them (I never think of ranks as something static but a dynamic range of power showed as an area where users goes high and down according circumstances)

And honestly, Luffy could be stronger than them right now, we haven't even see a glimpse of their power. Which doesn't take that VA ARE MF STRONG. You're taking for granted too many things after seeing a war in which everyone was shown little enough to make ANY conclusion.

sh4dx
April 22, 2011, 04:55 PM
Common sense? Busoshoku only affects the function of DF. For Logias, implies a hit among other things. For Paramecia, stop being what it does. Luffy doesn't stop to be a rubber, only for the moment and in the place hit. Same as Magellan, in which while you punch him stopping to produce venom He already filled the place with it. You don't make yourself immune, just avoid for one second the production of it.
Busoshoku doesn't give you protection, it's for offensive alone as we saw.

And VA are not admiral because there can be only 3 of them. :/ VA's are potential Admirals and therefore also potential Float Admiral as well. They're the elite of WG. Nothing? Well, I personally think that Luffy is at that level currently and able to defeat some of them (I never think of ranks as something static but a dynamic range of power showed as an area where users goes high and down according circumstances)

And honestly, Luffy could be stronger than them right now, we haven't even see a glimpse of their power. Which doesn't take that VA ARE MF STRONG. You're taking for granted too many things after seeing a war in which everyone was shown little enough to make ANY conclusion.

Dude rayliegh clearly said it that it gives you "protection" http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-597/page013.html .i don't say it makes a df power immune or anything like this because BB df would be useless.anyway my point is that with CoA you can't make a "shield"and protect from an attack from magelan(example) let's say, you can just dodge it and hit him, i think it's clear right ?

About the VA, we don't know if there MUST be 3 Admirals or anything, the only thing that was said by robin it was that there are 3 of them right now, if you have read something else give me a link please.Sure i have said it to you a lot of times before i don't go with the "rank power" and it's clearly that some VA will be stronger than some others, or like smoker who was a captain and now a commodore and he himself told that he is stronger than many of his superiors.My point is that the MT right now after the TS MUST be stronger than the most of the VA or else the whole 2 years of training will be ruined IMO.

I don't go just because of the war,and i am sure that oda is hiding the power of the VA for the NW, but now if there are more than 3-4VA that would give the MT trouble it would be ridiculous.just imagine momonga shows up and give zoro a battle to the death i will find it very bad from oda.Or lets say the dalmatian VA shows up and give luffy a hard battle to defeat him after the 2 years training, when 2 years before he had gone against 2 shichi (even if he lost 2 times from croc, or had help against moria which is funny because it wasn't that moria was fighting all alone, he had odz with him so it's pretty much the same, if he was a one on one fight a g2 luffy will probably be faster than his sh**ty doppelman or the brick bat and he could beat him) and lucci who was clearly a very strong villain at the point of the series back then(now i think luffy would probably beat him without that much trouble) and i don't count enel because except from his fruit and the CoO he was very weak fighter and he was just depending only on those 2 and not his physical strength even apart that luffy was his natural enemy.

xeteboi
April 22, 2011, 08:34 PM
Magellan is not semi intangible. He is as solid as the most ordinary of humans. I don't think there is a single manga instance where he showed any degree of intangibility.

Just watch it again and you will see. They cant even hit him with such bullets nor bazookas and Luffy cant make a solid hit even with his hands covering a wax gloves..

Uriel
April 22, 2011, 09:51 PM
Just watch it again and you will see. They cant even hit him with such bullets nor bazookas and Luffy cant make a solid hit even with his hands covering a wax gloves..
That's because venom is dense. But He doesn't make himself intangible.

Dude rayliegh clearly said it that it gives you "protection" http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-597/page013.html .i don't say it makes a df power immune or anything like this because BB df would be useless.anyway my point is that with CoA you can't make a "shield"and protect from an attack from magelan(example) let's say, you can just dodge it and hit him, i think it's clear right ?
Says that gives you an invisible armor (LOL, I know, I' being a bitch with this. Let's go with Protection) Even if it's protective, it has been shown that two users of Haki can overcome that protection hence why Kenbunshoku is as useful as Busoshoku. In the war you see many Haki fighters that fight against each other and some are hurt and some don't. Even Marco who has been explicit as Haki user took the damage from Kizaru, if it wasn't by his DF He wouldn't be able to stand those hits.
With this I mean that Haki is not the ultimate weapon and it's not a solid technique, but varies with the figthers and within the circumstances as well. After all, it's about will.

About the VA, we don't know if there MUST be 3 Admirals or anything, the only thing that was said by robin it was that there are 3 of them right now, if you have read something else give me a link please.Sure i have said it to you a lot of times before i don't go with the "rank power" and it's clearly that some VA will be stronger than some others, or like smoker who was a captain and now a commodore and he himself told that he is stronger than many of his superiors.My point is that the MT right now after the TS MUST be stronger than the most of the VA or else the whole 2 years of training will be ruined IMO.
I agree with that, never said I did not XD For me Luffy and Monster Trio overall can take out most of enemies in the New World...Some at the verge of death like admirals and some with a prolonged fight as VA's.
Well...Maybe not admirals. Yet.

I don't go just because of the war,and i am sure that oda is hiding the power of the VA for the NW, but now if there are more than 3-4VA that would give the MT trouble it would be ridiculous.just imagine momonga shows up and give zoro a battle to the death i will find it very bad from oda.Or lets say the dalmatian VA shows up and give luffy a hard battle to defeat him after the 2 years training, when 2 years before he had gone against 2 shichi (even if he lost 2 times from croc, or had help against moria which is funny because it wasn't that moria was fighting all alone, he had odz with him so it's pretty much the same, if he was a one on one fight a g2 luffy will probably be faster than his sh**ty doppelman or the brick bat and he could beat him) and lucci who was clearly a very strong villain at the point of the series back then(now i think luffy would probably beat him without that much trouble) and i don't count enel because except from his fruit and the CoO he was very weak fighter and he was just depending only on those 2 and not his physical strength even apart that luffy was his natural enemy.
Momonga has proven to be a fearful warrior. Enough skillful to avoid become stone, thing that no one but Luffy accomplished so far.
I know they were lacking in the war...But everyone were. To be honest, we can't know who is worthy and who is ridiculous.

kkck
April 22, 2011, 10:54 PM
Just watch it again and you will see. They cant even hit him with such bullets nor bazookas and Luffy cant make a solid hit even with his hands covering a wax gloves..

What are you talking about? luffy connected several hits perfectly with and without the wax gloves. And the bazookas and guns did not stop him but they did stall him. If he was in any form intangible that would not have happened.

sh4dx
April 23, 2011, 07:16 AM
That's because venom is dense. But He doesn't make himself intangible.

Says that gives you an invisible armor (LOL, I know, I' being a bitch with this. Let's go with Protection) Even if it's protective, it has been shown that two users of Haki can overcome that protection hence why Kenbunshoku is as useful as Busoshoku. In the war you see many Haki fighters that fight against each other and some are hurt and some don't. Even Marco who has been explicit as Haki user took the damage from Kizaru, if it wasn't by his DF He wouldn't be able to stand those hits.
With this I mean that Haki is not the ultimate weapon and it's not a solid technique, but varies with the figthers and within the circumstances as well. After all, it's about will.

I agree with that, never said I did not XD For me Luffy and Monster Trio overall can take out most of enemies in the New World...Some at the verge of death like admirals and some with a prolonged fight as VA's.
Well...Maybe not admirals. Yet.

Momonga has proven to be a fearful warrior. Enough skillful to avoid become stone, thing that no one but Luffy accomplished so far.
I know they were lacking in the war...But everyone were. To be honest, we can't know who is worthy and who is ridiculous.

i didn't say that it's the ultimate weapon or a solid technique, but that if you are strong and have mastery over your CoA let's say i think you can at least TOUCH AND HIT your opponent(not necesarily win against him) but also it has been seen that marco and vista couldn't hurt akainu who probably may had more "mastery" over his haki and he didn't got hurt(that is assumption Oda didn't tell us about this clearly) so i think there is no point of argument because we are saying the same thing.

Momonga avoided to become stone just because he stabbed himself, and i can't imagine a really strong fighter doing something like this against hancock, so i think again that it would ruin the 2 years training if there would be more than 3-4 VA that can give the MT a hard time.And i don't go with what happened just on the war it's clearly that oda wanted to hide their power for the NW but it would be ridiculous to have all of the VA be as strong as the POST TS MT .

kkck
April 23, 2011, 10:34 AM
Boa actually gave momonga a complement when he avoided her ability though. If such a thing was a mark of weakness then I don't think boa would have said it was a mark of experience.

sh4dx
April 23, 2011, 01:00 PM
Boa actually gave momonga a complement when he avoided her ability though. If such a thing was a mark of weakness then I don't think boa would have said it was a mark of experience.

so what? croc moria lucci all of them were experienced but at the end they lost to a PRE TS luffy.and before you say anything about their battles read my previous post above.Oda said about the 3 great powers, so if luffy was able 2 years before to match up against them then it would be ridiculous if he can't beat with no difficult the most of the VA.The point is that the VA aren't around the shichibukai power(though it isn't a certain level because some are stronger than the other) because it would be pointless to have them if the VA were able to match up against them.I expect max 3-4 VA to be a real threat to the MT such as yamakaji,onigumo,doberman and maybe someone else but there is no way Oda will bring more than 3-4 VA to match up against them especialy now after 2 years of training.

chess4
April 23, 2011, 02:02 PM
everything is all about match ups and abilites. invonkov is a beast, but he has trouble with logia abilites and magellan.

anyway the only 3 current leaders we know of dragon invonkov and inazuma. really i think inazuma is under invonkovs control so really only 2. kuma is a toss up until we know more on him.

we know very little about them. we dont know how many soldiers they have or the break down in the ranking, but i would assume you have rankings like the the real world armies, one piece world navy has rankings like the real world navy.

quick question since the WG has the marines and the navy, and dragon has the revolutionary ARMY, does anyone think that a version of the air force will appear in the story.

sh4dx
April 23, 2011, 02:12 PM
everything is all about match ups and abilites. invonkov is a beast, but he has trouble with logia abilites and magellan.

anyway the only 3 current leaders we know of dragon invonkov and inazuma. really i think inazuma is under invonkovs control so really only 2. kuma is a toss up until we know more on him.

we know very little about them. we dont know how many soldiers they have or the break down in the ranking, but i would assume you have rankings like the the real world armies, one piece world navy has rankings like the real world navy.

quick question since the WG has the marines and the navy, and dragon has the revolutionary ARMY, does anyone think that a version of the air force will appear in the story.

i always thought about that even air force or a completery military ground force but i think it's unlikely.I believe that Oda in the NW later in the story or near the end will introduce us some WG soldiers who will be near the power of the Admirals because it isn't make sense that the gorousei has no REAL protection with them(i don't count the random soldiers, or the possibility of the gorousei that can fight which is high because they have many scars and the one has the katana, and beside that it's pretty strange that 20+ years ago during the Ohara incident they were exactly the same as they are now in the current timeline, anyway on topic).

About the RA commanders sure iva is very very strong i agree with you but i am sure that when Oda will introduce the whole RA and all the commanders there will be at least 2-3 commanders stronger than him, way stronger than him because it makes no sense that one of his stronger commanders can't even handle a fight against an admiral or even magelan(handle a fight i don't mean to win at least put a good ffight) and iva vs PX-0 i don't count it because it was very little and PX-0 didn't have his "normal" self.

Dekker
April 23, 2011, 02:18 PM
Actually, haki could help in fighting against Magellan in my opinion especially the COA. Just what Shanks did stopping the hound blaze of Akainu. Magellan is semi - intangible even if he is not a logia cause he can make his body a pure venom and not all logias are intangible just like Blackbeared.

Blackbeards logia was stated to be the only logia that instead of letting attacks go through will make them hit him even harder. Also Magellan merely surrounded his body with poisen. Hes not intangible. Luffy already hit him before he learned to use haki.

kkck
April 23, 2011, 02:20 PM
so what? croc moria lucci all of them were experienced but at the end they lost to a PRE TS luffy.and before you say anything about their battles read my previous post above.Oda said about the 3 great powers, so if luffy was able 2 years before to match up against them then it would be ridiculous if he can't beat with no difficult the most of the VA.The point is that the VA aren't around the shichibukai power(though it isn't a certain level because some are stronger than the other) because it would be pointless to have them if the VA were able to match up against them.I expect max 3-4 VA to be a real threat to the MT such as yamakaji,onigumo,doberman and maybe someone else but there is no way Oda will bring more than 3-4 VA to match up against them especialy now after 2 years of training

Why would it be pointless to have the shichibukai if the VA were that strong? We already saw WB alone was enough of a threat for the marines to be forced to gather every military asset they had. And there are still 3 others with that much power at least and a potential replacement. If the VA really were not THAT strong then I don't see how the marines would be a relevant power.

Personally I would think any of these would give the strawhats a run for their money safe perhaps for the giant.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v57/c553/6.html


And I think you are grossly underestimating boa's ability. Boa's ability appeals to lust, I doubt you can resist it through strength alone. There is also a very strong probability boa's ability has something to do with why men are attracted to her. So, we know she has the color of the conqueror which seemingly attracts people, she is naturally extremely beautiful and her ability itself probably brings out lust from people... We also have to consider how strong boa is. I guess oda hid her real skill during the war but I doubt luffy would have the upperhand against her right now. She did destroy several pacifista back in the day, she has mastery over all haki types as far as we know and even sengoku admitted she was damn strong. Boa is a textbook beast so even if she won against an VA it would not indicate the VA is weak by any plausible standards.

chess4
April 23, 2011, 02:29 PM
i always thought about that even air force or a completery military ground force but i think it's unlikely.I believe that Oda in the NW later in the story or near the end will introduce us some WG soldiers who will be near the power of the Admirals because it isn't make sense that the gorousei has no REAL protection with them(i don't count the random soldiers, or the possibility of the gorousei that can fight which is high because they have many scars and the one has the katana, and beside that it's pretty strange that 20+ years ago during the Ohara incident they were exactly the same as they are now in the current timeline, anyway on topic).

About the RA commanders sure iva is very very strong i agree with you but i am sure that when Oda will introduce the whole RA and all the commanders there will be at least 2-3 commanders stronger than him, way stronger than him because it makes no sense that one of his stronger commanders can't even handle a fight against an admiral or even magelan(handle a fight i don't mean to win at least put a good ffight) and iva vs PX-0 i don't count it because it was very little and PX-0 didn't have his "normal" self.

you are right i cant wait to see the commanders im sure there are some beast in the group. i dont think there will be a logia user except maybe dragon. we have not seen the real ferocious zoan animals yet like lion, tiger, rhino, cheetah, so i can see a posibility that they have one of those.

i just hope oda has not used up all the good fruit powers.



http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereading/?image=One%20Piece/One%20Piece%20c587/15.png&server=nas.html

look at the middle panel where you can see dragon raising his had in the air. is that somone that is as big as kuma or is that invonkov's head with hormones injections

sh4dx
April 23, 2011, 02:49 PM
Why would it be pointless to have the shichibukai if the VA were that strong? We already saw WB alone was enough of a threat for the marines to be forced to gather every military asset they had. And there are still 3 others with that much power at least and a potential replacement. If the VA really were not THAT strong then I don't see how the marines would be a relevant power.

Personally I would think any of these would give the strawhats a run for their money safe perhaps for the giant.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v57/c553/6.html


And I think you are grossly underestimating boa's ability. Boa's ability appeals to lust, I doubt you can resist it through strength alone. There is also a very strong probability boa's ability has something to do with why men are attracted to her. So, we know she has the color of the conqueror which seemingly attracts people, she is naturally extremely beautiful and her ability itself probably brings out lust from people... We also have to consider how strong boa is. I guess oda hid her real skill during the war but I doubt luffy would have the upperhand against her right now. She did destroy several pacifista back in the day, she has mastery over all haki types as far as we know and even sengoku admitted she was damn strong. Boa is a textbook beast so even if she won against an VA it would not indicate the VA is weak by any plausible standards.

i didn't say that the VA aren't strong but please read my post i don't want to post the same thing again and again.I don't care about the marines or the WG.Sure the VA are capable of fighting many of the pirates even in the NW.i will say it one LAST TIME.The VA right NOW not every one of them but most of them can't fight the MT to a deadly match.Heck it would be bad writing from Oda to suddenly make every one of the VA pop out after 2 years of training and give a hard time to luffy or zoro when 2 years before luffy fight and win against enemies such as 2 shichibukai(please don't say about croc who beat luffy 2 times, or moria that luffy had help because moria too had the help of odz, if it was a straight one on one a g2 luffy would probably be faster than his lame doppelman or the brick bat and would kick his as*) or lucci.i don't count enel because his only power was the DF and his CoO, his physic power wasn't anything special so a strong/fast opponent would probably be able to win against him.


It would be ridiculous if suddenly momonga and dalmatian guy shows up and zoro/luffy struggle to win against them i don't know it makes no sense to me.Even if they are the 2nd force under the Admirals and Oda wanted to hide their strenght for the NW it would be too lame to suddenly be more strong than some of the shichibukai who luffy beat 2 of them.In the link you posted i doubt that most of them would do anything against the MT.I believe that yamakaji/onigumo/doberman and maybe strawberry or someone unnamed VA would be at BEST the only to give the MT a good fight(not to the death of course, just a good fight).Just imagine luffy who fought and won such strong villains 2 year before and after his fights he was unconcious or couldn't move and now after 2 years of training the VA could suddenly make him to suffer the same.It would be bad writing from Oda and i believe he wouldn't do something like that.In best case the most of the VA would match up against franky or chopper just to show us how strong they became after 2 years
[hr]

you are right i cant wait to see the commanders im sure there are some beast in the group. i dont think there will be a logia user except maybe dragon. we have not seen the real ferocious zoan animals yet like lion, tiger, rhino, cheetah, so i can see a posibility that they have one of those.

i just hope oda has not used up all the good fruit powers.



http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereading/?image=One%20Piece/One%20Piece%20c587/15.png&server=nas.html

look at the middle panel where you can see dragon raising his had in the air. is that somone that is as big as kuma or is that invonkov's head with hormones injections

i agree that in the RA there would be MAX 1 or maybe 2 guys with logia df (one of them hopefully dragon) and i want some of them just to be strong even without DF i don't really care.I think that Oda will probably give the most of them Zoan type like you said, and really hope there would be a REALLY strong swordsman among them WITHOUT a DF(please oda make zoro sensei be him :p).It would be very cool at the end during the war that wb said will come to see zoro and his sensei to fight alongside the WG.Just epic and the scene at the FB that the RA were at the Dojo i don't think it's a coincidince rather a foreshadow i dare to say.Oda is a master genius to things like this

i thought the same thing,Dragon must be the one who raising his hand i think it's obvious

chess4
April 23, 2011, 03:00 PM
i didn't say that the VA aren't strong but please read my post i don't want to post the same thing again and again.I don't care about the marines or the WG.Sure the VA are capable of fighting many of the pirates even in the NW.i will say it one LAST TIME.The VA right NOW not every one of them but most of them can't fight the MT to a deadly match.Heck it would be bad writing from Oda to suddenly make every one of the VA pop out after 2 years of training and give a hard time to luffy or zoro when 2 years before luffy fight and win against enemies such as 2 shichibukai(please don't say about croc who beat luffy 2 times, or moria that luffy had help because moria too had the help of odz, if it was a straight one on one a g2 luffy would probably be faster than his lame doppelman or the brick bat and would kick his as*) or lucci.i don't count enel because his only power was the DF and his CoO, his physic power wasn't anything special so a strong/fast opponent would probably be able to win against him.


It would be ridiculous if suddenly momonga and dalmatian guy shows up and zoro/luffy struggle to win against them i don't know it makes no sense to me.Even if they are the 2nd force under the Admirals and Oda wanted to hide their strenght for the NW it would be too lame to suddenly be more strong than some of the shichibukai who luffy beat 2 of them.In the link you posted i doubt that most of them would do anything against the MT.I believe that yamakaji/onigumo/doberman and maybe strawberry or someone unnamed VA would be at BEST the only to give the MT a good fight(not to the death of course, just a good fight).Just imagine luffy who fought and won such strong villains 2 year before and after his fights he was unconcious or couldn't move and now after 2 years of training the VA could suddenly make him to suffer the same.It would be bad writing from Oda and i believe he wouldn't do something like that.In best case the most of the VA would match up against franky or chopper just to show us how strong they became after 2 years
<hr noshade size="1">


i agree that in the RA there would be MAX 1 or maybe 2 guys with logia df (one of them hopefully dragon) and i want some of them just to be strong even without DF i don't really care.I think that Oda will probably give the most of them Zoan type like you said, and really hope there would be a REALLY strong swordsman among them WITHOUT a DF(please oda make zoro sensei be him :p).It would be very cool at the end during the war that wb said will come to see zoro and his sensei to fight alongside the WG.Just epic and the scene at the FB that the RA were at the Dojo i don't think it's a coincidince rather a foreshadow i dare to say.Oda is a master genius to things like this

i thought the same thing,Dragon must be the one who raising his hand i think it's obvious


zoro's old master just has to be a member of the RA. oda doesnt do anything just cause. he showed dragon going to dojo for a reason.

wouldnt it be grest to see zoro fighting beside both of his masters.

also what if hurcules(usopp's sensei) is a part of the RA as well.

Uriel
April 23, 2011, 06:24 PM
I think aside Ivankov and Kuma there should be other strong fighters and many competent soldiers. At least 9 more, if you let me throw a random number.
I think it will based on Chinese Zodiac, as well. Not their DF's, but the overall theme.

And we're going a little offtopic. There is a thread to measure the new crew strength.

everything is all about match ups and abilites. invonkov is a beast, but he has trouble with logia abilites and magellan.
I honestly think that in someone outside Impel Down, Ivankov would do better against Magellan. Anyway, it's just a feeling I have.


quick question since the WG has the marines and the navy, and dragon has the revolutionary ARMY, does anyone think that a version of the air force will appear in the story.
There was a mention of joint forces with Kong, but I doubt it. I don't know, everything in the sky seems to float by clouds and everything, weirdly enough to use it as airplanes and so. And we did not saw yet any indication of any airport or something related to it if I'm not wrong.

Momonga avoided to become stone just because he stabbed himself, and i can't imagine a really strong fighter doing something like this against hancock, so i think again that it would ruin the 2 years training if there would be more than 3-4 VA that can give the MT a hard time.And i don't go with what happened just on the war it's clearly that oda wanted to hide their power for the NW but it would be ridiculous to have all of the VA be as strong as the POST TS MT .
Maybe He saw it with Kenbunshoku :O

PS: LOL, every time I see strawberry I can't but smile.

Zeltrax
April 23, 2011, 07:17 PM
I think aside Ivankov and Kuma there should be other strong fighters and many competent soldiers. At least 9 more, if you let me throw a random number.
I think it will based on Chinese Zodiac, as well. Not their DF's, but the overall theme.
.
Agree. Chinese zodiac is a theory I thought up of too 2 years ago when I saw dragon the 2nd time.
But then with Ivankov introduced, I'm not sure anymore...
If he's so high up there then she must have a zodiac sign right, but I couldn't think of which.
But its a nice theory.
The Pig revolutionary leader ;)

sh4dx
April 23, 2011, 07:35 PM
zoro's old master just has to be a member of the RA. oda doesnt do anything just cause. he showed dragon going to dojo for a reason.

wouldnt it be grest to see zoro fighting beside both of his masters.

also what if hurcules(usopp's sensei) is a part of the RA as well.

yes i have the same feeling about zoro's sensei.i am sure oda will do it, i just know it!!About hercules i don't know,he seems a funny and probably enough strong fighter,but the fact that he was all alone on that island makes no sense to be part of the RA.Who knows maybe Oda will surprise us!

I think that apart from Sabo whom we don't know yet what Oda have in his mind to do,he could just brought him just to show us how painful was for luffy to lose his second brother for second time after what happened to sabo, or going with "fate" makes Dragon come to Goa Kingdom and "fate" makes Sabo to meet him and told him about how much he hates the nobles and all, and leave us with a "clifhanger" of sabo's hat at the sea just like when Ace "died/lost" (we didn't know back then) to BB, and make us the readers believe that he became a revolutionary.So we don't know yet but the possibilities of Sabo being either dead or a revolutionary are 50/50.

Now the man that i am 101% sure that is at the RA and probably a commander OR at worst just the "right hand" of a commander (just like inazuma to iva) is Bogart (the swordsman guy who is always with garp).I am sure that he is at the RA i think that even a blind can tell this at the current point of the series!
[hr]



Maybe He saw it with Kenbunshoku :O

PS: LOL, every time I see strawberry I can't but smile.

who cares if he saw it with CoO?this is not the point,i say that it doesn't matter if it is experience or CoO or whatever but the fact that he couldn't do a thing but to stab himself in order to avoid petrification it seems to me that he isn't enough strong to put a fight against her, and i really doubt a strong fighter would do something like that to avoid hancock meromero powers.So if oda himself told about the 3great powers then the VA are nowhere near the shichibukai power(maybe only against moria who is clearly the weakest), for the others i don't even dare to say that not even 2-3 VA can put a fight against for example dofla or kuma or mihawk.So please stop hype them just because they are the 2nd strongest force under the Admirals.A PRE TS LUFFY won against 2 shichi and lucci so it doesn't makes sense for the VA to match up against him after 2 years of training jesus...And please don't give me the cr*p about onigumo escorting ace to MF because if wb were to make his move during the transport onigumo would probably be not more than 2-3 hit from newgate.

About strawberry, i dont understand you laugh about his hat and hair or because i think that aside from onigumo/doberman/yamakaji i think he is the one that maybe be strong?

xeteboi
April 25, 2011, 06:57 AM
Blackbeards logia was stated to be the only logia that instead of letting attacks go through will make them hit him even harder. Also Magellan merely surrounded his body with poisen. Hes not intangible. Luffy already hit him before he learned to use haki.

You just repeated what i mean in saying that Blackbeared is not intangible though you may not got Im pointing out, so please re read why I commented this so that you can barely understand it. About Magellan {semi - intangible to intangible is different right?}I dont even said hes intangible just like other logias, I said semi- intagible, why i said so? cause in fact that they cant even have a pure hit on him. At least I know what Im talking. I agree that they can hit him but If you think, can you make a pure hit with a pure venom? They manage to hit him but not as a pure solid substance or anything.