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Mashiro_Luna
August 24, 2010, 03:31 PM
Ichigo against Kensei in a battle at Fake Karakura Town. Both are captain class vizards with melee weapon zanpaktou caple of energy blasts who do you think would win?

Note- They both have full knowledge of abilities only restriction being Ichigo can not go Ichigonator since he has no control over it.

El Samurai Guapo
August 28, 2010, 04:38 PM
Ichigo against Kensei in a battle at Fake Karakura Town. Both are captain class vizards with melee weapon zanpaktou caple of energy blasts who do you think would win?

Note- They both have full knowledge of abilities only restriction being Ichigo can not go Ichigonator since he has no control over it.

This is all depends on which Ichigo you're referring too. This new Ichigo is probably on the same level as Aizen is, which means he's even stronger than Yamamoto. As much as I'd hate to say it, he would probably defeat Kensei in his current state.

The pre-training Ichigo would get wrecked easily; probably even by Kensei's shikai.

Broken_Wing
August 28, 2010, 05:58 PM
This match would have been really interesting if Kubo actually had Kensei show some moves with his bankai...oh Kubo...

In anycase even if its pre-training Ichigo...the Vizard Ichigo in FKT could still cut Aizen in half with his power.

Based on pure feats "pre-training FKT Vizard Ichigo" still takes it. We've never seen Kensei defeat anyone above Menos...what can I say...

slmcknett
August 28, 2010, 06:17 PM
Kensei vs. Bankai Visored Ichigo = Probably Kensei.
Kensei vs. Final Getsuga Tensho Ichigo = Ichigo. No contest.

El Samurai Guapo
August 28, 2010, 06:36 PM
This match would have been really interesting if Kubo actually had Kensei show some moves with his bankai...oh Kubo...

In anycase even if its pre-training Ichigo...the Vizard Ichigo in FKT could still cut Aizen in half with his power.

Based on pure feats "pre-training FKT Vizard Ichigo" still takes it. We've never seen Kensei defeat anyone above Menos...what can I say...

Cut Aizen in half? No, the best he could do was slash his shoulder open. That's not even close to cutting him in half.

Kensei is a former captain, so even though we didn't see any of his bankai abilities, there's no reason to assume his bankai would be any less brutal than the other captain bankais we've witnessed. Kensei also has a hollow mask like Ichigo.

IMO any of the four ex-captain vaizards would've annihilated the former Ichigo.

Broken_Wing
August 28, 2010, 06:56 PM
Cut Aizen in half? No, the best he could do was slash his shoulder open. That's not even close to cutting him in half.

Well last time I checked he cut Aizen from his shoulder down to his waist. If we want to get technical he would have only needed to continue slicing down through the groin area to slice away half of his body. Similar to how Harribel cut Hitsugaya's Ice clone no?

Either way if we consider Ichigo going the easier route and slicing Aizen horizontally....he has already demonstarted that he can cut Aizen deep enough to slice him straight through horizontally.

Power to slice Aizen in half? Yes, I think so...


Kensei is a former captain, so even though we didn't see any of his bankai abilities, there's no reason to assume his bankai would be any less brutal than the other captain bankais we've witnessed. Kensei also has a hollow mask like Ichigo.

IMO any of the four ex-captain vaizards would've annihilated the former Ichigo.

Well it would be a good match up I say...but nowhere near the slaughter your suggesting...

I dont know about you, but I say Ichigo can last Masked longer than the other ex-captain vaizards...not to mention his bankai has been shown to be sustainable far surpassing any one battle in length.

The ex-captain vaizards maybe more powerful in their bankai (which is still pure speculation) but Ichigo has decent feats in maneuverability and endurance which id say would make it a good fight and NOT a sluaghter against Ichigo.

Waking_Dreamer
August 28, 2010, 07:15 PM
A determined Ichigo would have a decent shot. He wont have the same showing as he did against Aizen with all his mind fuckery...

You would need to consider the Ichigo that finally thrashed Grimmjow when Ichigo decided enough was enough but more than likely stronger in power...from the extra battles after that.

Mashiro_Luna
August 28, 2010, 07:27 PM
Oh sorry I meant pre-training Ichigo, I think Kensei would win though he seemed to be the most (in raw power) powerful of the Vizard captains maybe tying with Love.

SaintSheik
August 28, 2010, 08:25 PM
I think its safe to say that the current Ichigo isn't the one we're talking about here. That aside, I think Ichigo would win. After all, I'm basing this off of what we've seen minus the level of power through Ichigo's Hollow take over. Even though Ichigo's bankai may be seen as a glorified shikai to some, combined with hollowfication, we've seen much more power from Ichigo. Sure we can use the logic of Kensei being a former captain and an actual Vaizard but using logic in Bleach is a contradiction in it of itself.

Broken_Wing
August 30, 2010, 05:30 AM
Even though Ichigo's bankai may be seen as a glorified shikai to some, combined with hollowfication, we've seen much more power from Ichigo.

Come to think of it, Kensei's bankai appearnace seems very similar in style to Ichigo's.

1. He gets a new set of weapon(s) that are quite small.
2. An appearnce of new clothing over his body.

After Ichigo, Kensei's bankai is the next smallest if not the same size as Ichigos... could the wrapped bandages be some sort of similar ability to Ichigo's reiatsu compression? Byakuya said that bankais were all massive in nature before Ichigo's...so that does make me wonder about Kensei's bankai...

Waking_Dreamer
August 30, 2010, 05:59 AM
Come to think of it, Kensei's bankai appearnace seems very similar in style to Ichigo's.

1. He gets a new set of weapon(s) that are quite small.
2. An appearnce of new clothing over his body.

After Ichigo, Kensei's bankai is the next smallest if not the same size as Ichigos... could the wrapped bandages be some sort of similar ability to Ichigo's reiatsu compression? Byakuya said that bankais were all massive in nature before Ichigo's...so that does make me wonder about Kensei's bankai...


Thats a pretty good observation.

Id say Kensei's bankai does look to be in the same size category of Ichigo's bankai. Does this mean the majority of his bankai reiatsu is compressed into his arms....? :blink

Anyway I had some free time today...so here's something for the thread:


Vizard Bankai FTW!!
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb57/Jonas64/IchigoVsKensei2.png

ssj4jw
August 30, 2010, 01:30 PM
I always thought that when Byakuya said that bankai was massive in nature he meant that the bankai weapon is always larger than the shikai weapon. If thats the case then Kensei's bankai is still in the traditional lines of bankai as his bankai knuckle blades are clearly larger than his shikai combat knife.

En Yang Ji
August 30, 2010, 02:39 PM
I think Byakuya meant bankai's were harder to control because of their powers. Most bankai's powers have a wide range of effect. Learning controlling things like the weather or a huge samurai must take a lot training.

Charred
August 30, 2010, 02:50 PM
Not to hate or anything, but this is kinda a silly poll to make currently.
We have no clue about Ichigo's current strenght & know even less about kensei :|

El Samurai Guapo
August 30, 2010, 04:55 PM
Not to hate or anything, but this is kinda a silly poll to make currently.
We have no clue about Ichigo's current strenght & know even less about kensei :|

Well the creator of this topic already clarified that we're to discuss the former (HM/FKT) Ichigo, not the current one that's about to face off against Aizen.

You're right about Kensei though, we know even less of him, but judging what I've seen from his shikai I'd say he takes this. Tachikaze in shikai form already seems way better to me than the one-trick pony tensa zangetsu, who's strongest/only attack can barely scratch Gin's forehead. I don't see Kensei, as a shinigami, being any weaker than Gin, and Kensei's definitely stronger overall because he's a hybrid.

We've seen that Tachikaze can use invisible wind-lasers to cut enemies, charge up and fire a kamehameha-like ki blast, and make huge explosions when it stabs things. Add in the fact that his bankai will be 5-10 times more deadlier, and that Kensei has a hollow mask to amplify that even more and quite frankly Ichigo's screwed.

Darth Executor
August 30, 2010, 10:59 PM
All the visored except hacchi have done nothing but embarrass themselves so I give this to ichigo.

El Samurai Guapo
August 31, 2010, 01:31 AM
All the visored except hacchi have done nothing but embarrass themselves so I give this to ichigo.

Embarrassed themselves how? By getting cut down by Aizen? If that's the case, Aizen embarrassed Ichigo more than anyone else here (http://www.mangareader.net/94-44833-14/bleach/chapter-388.html).

In Kensei's case his whereabouts are unknown, so I don't see exactly how he embarrassed himself. Still, Ichigo has embarrassed himself more than anyone else in the manga though.

poobert
August 31, 2010, 04:32 PM
Pre training Ichigo had serious problems. In his bankai state, he seemed fairly strong, but his mask only lasted a few seconds ever since he beat Uli.

If it was a maskless fight, it may be pretty even. Ichigo seemed better after fighting uli than before, and he could probably do well against Kensei, having the speed advantage but by the looks of it, loosing in the strength department. I tend to favour characters with speed, so I am inclined to give it to Ichi.

With masks however Ichi looses. He looses his speed advantage, his strength disadvantage gets worse, he can't use cero's but all the vizard seem to be able to, and to top it off, his new mask (the one with 2 vertical stripes that is now probably different) only lasts for one attack and he can't seem to re-apply it.

Kensei will have at least a few minutes. At first it will be even, then Ichi's mask will fail and it will be like Ichigo v Grim on earth when Ichi used his mask for the first time. A complete thrashing. Ichi looses.

New Ichigo wins in less than 8 seconds and Ichigo that beat Grimmy would fight kensei to a stale mate imo.

El Samurai Guapo
August 31, 2010, 04:40 PM
Pre training Ichigo had serious problems. In his bankai state, he seemed fairly strong, but his mask only lasted a few seconds ever since he beat Uli.

If it was a maskless fight, it may be pretty even. Ichigo seemed better after fighting uli than before, and he could probably do well against Kensei, having the speed advantage but by the looks of it, loosing in the strength department. I tend to favour characters with speed, so I am inclined to give it to Ichi.

With masks however Ichi looses. He looses his speed advantage, his strength disadvantage gets worse, he can't use cero's but all the vizard seem to be able to, and to top it off, his new mask (the one with 2 vertical stripes that is now probably different) only lasts for one attack and he can't seem to re-apply it.

Kensei will have at least a few minutes. At first it will be even, then Ichi's mask will fail and it will be like Ichigo v Grim on earth when Ichi used his mask for the first time. A complete thrashing. Ichi looses.

See, I'm with the crowd that says Ichigo's bankai has been nothing but a glorified shikai (even for a shikai it seems mediocre). All other bankais we've seen from captains have been more overwhelming, impressive, and versatile.

If this was a mask-less fight I think Kensei would dominate. People say Ichigo's fast when he doesn't even have any speed feats. The only thing he proved he was faster than was senbonzakura kageyoshi (which was able to catch up to him eventually). Ichigo without mask is about as fast as a sealed Ulquiorra. With the mask he's still slower than R1 Ulquiorra. That's not really impressive IMO. Unless you're Yoruichi, Soi Fon, or Aizen, you're not going to be speed-blitzing a captain-level guy like Kensei.

Xsoteria
August 31, 2010, 07:13 PM
Well of course this depends on so many variables. I'm not counting in this New Ichigo, for obvious reasons.

If we go simply by the level of awesome, then it's Kensei.

Presumed power (since we have little else to work with in Kensei's case), I give it to Kensei.

Plot relation included - Ichigo.

Explanation: Level of awesome. Simple, Kensei is much more awesome and cool than Ichigo. Ichigo had his moments, but Kensei has kept a constant high level of awesomeness during his screen time, all the time.

Power level? He is probably the physically strongest Vizard (maybe Love is around there somewhere too), he's fast enough to intercept WW and dodge all of Hichigo's attacks while they were locked in combat in the Vizard warehouse. He is an old experienced captain.

Ichigo has very little to work with on the other hand. He's got some speed on his side, but it's doubtfull if he's even faster than Kensei. He has some strength but not enough. Getsuga Tensho is powerful but nothing to write home about. SS Ichigo, I'd argue has much better chances though, but seeing as how Kensei has a mask and we don't really know much about his Bankai (other than it has the word Tekken in it, fuck yeah =D), I'm willing to go with Kensei, yet again.

poobert
September 01, 2010, 12:37 PM
See, I'm with the crowd that says Ichigo's bankai has been nothing but a glorified shikai (even for a shikai it seems mediocre). All other bankais we've seen from captains have been more overwhelming, impressive, and versatile.

If this was a mask-less fight I think Kensei would dominate. People say Ichigo's fast when he doesn't even have any speed feats. The only thing he proved he was faster than was senbonzakura kageyoshi (which was able to catch up to him eventually). Ichigo without mask is about as fast as a sealed Ulquiorra. With the mask he's still slower than R1 Ulquiorra. That's not really impressive IMO. Unless you're Yoruichi, Soi Fon, or Aizen, you're not going to be speed-blitzing a captain-level guy like Kensei.

It is a really tough match because we don't know anything about Kensei.

I am not convinced of the speed of any captain save the best compared to Ichigo. Even when ichigo was in a bad state after ss and before vizard training, his speed was pretty damn good. Yammi had no clue what hit him and even Grimmy in their first fight didn't have a speed advantage:

http://manga.animea.net/bleach-chapter-211-page-13.html

His bankai as you said was as fast as an unreleased Uli, which imo is fantastic considering that the top 4 espada seem to be in a similar league and Halibel was clearly faster than Hitsu, Barragan was speed blitzing Soi Fon unreleased, while to be honest, no one could match Starrks occasional bursts of straight line speed.

I would have to be convinced that Kensei's bankai gives him a really big strength advantage to give the maskless fight to him.... but damn kubo doesn't want to show us his fights. :(

hajialibaig
September 01, 2010, 01:03 PM
Ichigo just surpassed all the characters of bleach that we know of, pointless thread.

Waking_Dreamer
September 01, 2010, 08:38 PM
Ichigo just surpassed all the characters of bleach that we know of, pointless thread.


Oh sorry I meant pre-training Ichigo, I think Kensei would win though he seemed to be the most (in raw power) powerful of the Vizard captains maybe tying with Love.

;)