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Roflkopt3r
October 08, 2010, 04:42 PM
Hey,
I thought it might be nice to have such a thread specifically for selfmade arts/image editing programs (I guess Photoshop in most cases) for all kinds of small stuff, discussions or simple questions related to it.
Since we've just been wondering in general hangout thread where to place such a thread it's in Tutorials & Workshops for now, it might be moved to a different forum soon :amuse

To add a first personal post:
Right now I'm struggling with the recreation of outlines from Berserk. This very detailed style of most Seinen (it seems, after all I only read Beserk and Shigurui from that genre yet and both have very detailled drawings) is a pain compared to clean and easy outlines like Naruto. I'm usually working with a fully zoomed out overview to figure out details and an extremely closely zoomed in version to set prezise paths.
But as Beserk is incredibly detailled and partially has very precise shadows/lightning etc., close zoom ins become totally muddy while details aren't clearly visible in normal size.
This little part gave me a hard time, I think I studied at least 15 reference images to fully understand what's what :s
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/T33_K3SS3LCH3N/Photoshop/Matsch.jpg

Still, at least everything looks much finer when actually drawn than the path-versions :amuse
Current (incomplete) state including some mistakes (such as totally screwed up shoulder plates which have to be remade from the first and a bunch of useless lines):
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/T33_K3SS3LCH3N/Photoshop/OutlinePreview-1.jpg

Evil3ye
October 08, 2010, 04:57 PM
The lines doesn't look too bad actually. And yeah, I think you've figured it out right, Naruto is prolly one of the simplest drawn mangas and very easy to clean/outline w/e.

So you're using PS for the cleaning work, heh?
Not a big fan of colouring others' lines to be honest, but whenever I feel to colour a panel or something I simply redraw the lines myself using the program Paint Tool SAI. The lines become way cleaner than just cleaning an orginal page, and you can modify the strength of the lines yourself. Which I believe is super useful especially when you need to have thin hair and stuff.

The only problem is that it takes more time and might not be applictable on drawn out mangas like Berserk, Gantz etc. However if you've get bored some time, just give it a shot.
lines with SAI (http://evilbust3r.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2b1z9z)

Roflkopt3r
October 08, 2010, 05:24 PM
I'm using Path Tool usually for outlines as it's the way I'm used to do it. It might be the most time-robbing way to do, but it's also the most precise and best to scrap and change things. And, of course, the lines are perfectly clean in the end as there's nothing of the original in it. I simply grew attached to the method as it's one of the first things I did using Photoshop to create simple comic characters.
I'll certainly take a look at SAI, thanks for the hint.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/T33_K3SS3LCH3N/Photoshop/Berserk-Paths.jpg
(as far as I know the golden rule is to use as few anchor points as possible - still this is how it looks like as I easily ignore it for very simple lines which won't go wrong anyways and only stick to it for complex details which might require rework a couple of times)
At least I figured out a rule of the thumb (damn that's really the english word for "Faustregel" (Fist-Rule/german)?) for Berserk Outlines: Anything that can't be identified must be a belt buckle! (I roughly guess that these outlines contain 10 belt buckles, without counting the repeating clasps on Kjaskar's pants)

I was toying around with a Shigurui shot recently and somehow had the absurd idea of only using Hue/Saturation adjustments to colourise it as the original image already had perfect shadows/highlights, here's the result (without any afterwork, only one "layer" of Hue/Saturation):
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/T33_K3SS3LCH3N/Misc/GennosukeSchaftblock.jpg

Evil3ye
October 08, 2010, 05:40 PM
Was only using PS for colourings so far, so I don't even know wat differents methods there are :sweat
But this one you've showed does not look that much different from what I am using. Also got those points which I can modify the lines with, as well as their strength.
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af334/dbust3r/drafts/zooozzzaa.jpg
I recall you have to modify the brush first to have a different strength of line in PS, or is there a quicker way to do so?

Roflkopt3r
October 08, 2010, 05:44 PM
I recall you have to modify the brush to have a different strength of line in PS, or is there a quicker method to do so?

A path can be drawn with different tools in photoshop, I guess Brush is the most common one. I couldn't think of an easier way. Simply opening the brush tool, adjusting everything necessary (usually only brush size) and then let PS draw the path with it.
I mean it's only one adjustment for drawing everything at once after the path is finished so it is rather quick.

For a data like I created only using one path, this leads to a uniform line thickness. It's possible to seperate the paths though (technically everything is one path on my example) and draw them in different strength. There's also a setting called "Simulate Pressure" for drawing paths but that's of no use for outlines I'ld say.

I think there are other ways to draw paths as well but I don't know them :P

Evil3ye
October 08, 2010, 05:51 PM
I tried out that pen tool few times, but got confused with the path-ing. Had to draw and cancel that thing every time I wanted to start a new line. I don't really get how to work with it properly. A tutorial woulda be sweet lol.

But since I'm pretty much out of time atm and not in an artistic mood either,..meh D:

Roflkopt3r
October 08, 2010, 06:03 PM
It's quite easy to use actually, maybe I'll make one but there's actually little to explain :D

Evil3ye
October 08, 2010, 06:11 PM
ohw would you do that? :zomg sweet.
or you might just link me one, if you ...accidently.. bang into one :wink

Googlez_kun
October 09, 2010, 05:50 PM
I'd like to use the path-tool,but it somehow does not work anymore,so i have to redraw everything myself ;-;

From where did you get SAI,M?

Evil3ye
October 09, 2010, 05:58 PM
Was a recommendation from nat back then (though I figured she's using a different prog aleady :s). Don't know where I dl'ed it. Google it, however it's not a freeware, one actually got to pay for the license.

Roflkopt3r
October 15, 2010, 03:06 PM
ohw would you do that? :zomg sweet.
or you might just link me one, if you ...accidently.. bang into one :wink

Done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UVPLNwEc6Q
I hope it's enough to give a good overview on it, since Pen tool actually is quite user-friendly :)
The final step I didn't mention would be right-click -> Draw Path of course.

Evil3ye
October 17, 2010, 09:58 AM
ohkay, thanks. That one can use them on different layers was news to me. Still don't know how to 'draw' properly with it though. Or can I select just one path that it'll be traced with a brush, without affecting the others? Gotta try it out some day..

Roflkopt3r
October 18, 2010, 10:21 AM
ohkay, thanks. That one can use them on different layers was news to me. Still don't know how to 'draw' properly with it though. Or can I select just one path that it'll be traced with a brush, without affecting the others? Gotta try it out some day..

That's something I wondered myself, to me it seems that it's only possible to "draw" a whole set of paths at once. However, it's relatively easy to first make a set of subpaths and than split it into several paths which can be drawn seperatly.
Also it is possible to draw a single subpath, but it seems that requires to select exactly one subpath and not more at a time, which would make it taking quite a while to draw a complex lineart.
[hr]
Right now I'm working on some super simple shots to get some experience. Sadly I always tend to try the large projects right away, but that's not a good approach for me as I'm really low on experience still. However, the simple shots can be surprisingly great sometimes...
Working on this shot now because I loved it right from the start :D
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/T33_K3SS3LCH3N/Berserk/CaskaundderApfel.jpg
Does anyone have an idea what that strange round object to the left of the chewed apple in her mouth might be?

Evil3ye
October 18, 2010, 01:30 PM
Some stuff from the background. A round little window in the wall (?) I'd say.

Roflkopt3r
October 23, 2010, 02:35 PM
I'm so slow right now, It's so many days since I started this one
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/T33_K3SS3LCH3N/Berserk/GattsimRegenZW1.jpg
Yet I didn't invest much time in it yet...
[hr]
Does anyone have a clue which eye colour Guts may have? I'm working on a Berserk shot for the coloured arts contest and I can't decide on an eye colour for him :oh

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3152/zw01.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/zw01.jpg/)

Evil3ye
October 23, 2010, 02:44 PM
the rain effect and all are pretty cool. are you planning to add some shapes to the background as well? I think it'd give the picture the special 'somethin-somethin'.

I put Berserk on hold after lke the 7th chapter, so I have no idea which eye colour he may has to be honest. I'd colour his eyes brown with a tad red... for the insanity effect lol

Roflkopt3r
October 23, 2010, 02:47 PM
Red would be too crazy ^^
I thought about brown as well, I'm still not sure which colour I'm gonna use. I tried green but screwed up, so I only chose blue for now but not as a final choice.

I've no idea what I'm gonna do with that shot of Guts in the rain, right now I'm kinda busy with the young Guts shot as I think it's suitable for delivering be quite a spectacular result :)

Evil3ye
October 23, 2010, 02:51 PM
according to this 'screen shot' you're well served by choosing brown..

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3972/berserk10lq4ty3.jpg

Roflkopt3r
October 25, 2010, 06:00 AM
I'm currently mostly trying to combine clearly defined shadows like typical for most Shounen/anime with gradients, I'm kinda struggling with getting a nice effect from combining these two. Hope I can do that some day.

However, the shot is progressing :D

http://yfrog.com/f/6xguttsbesiegtbazusozsj/
I hope it's not too bloody for the contest in the end... after all the original contains an almost scientifical cross-section through a skull and brain.

Evil3ye
November 06, 2010, 09:22 AM
was bit bored and tried to rebuild the face of an old art to make it more realistic. started with the eyes, over the lips and heh.. got stuck on the nose :darn

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af334/dbust3r/drafts/realizm.jpg
tutorial would be sweet :facepalm

Roflkopt3r
November 06, 2010, 11:44 AM
was bit bored and tried to rebuild the face of an old art to make it more realistic. started with the eyes, over the lips and heh.. got stuck on the nose :darn

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af334/dbust3r/drafts/realizm.jpg
tutorial would be sweet :facepalm

I think the shadow on the nose tip goes too far up or is too pointy, but I suck at that category anyways :D

I'm still busy with that shot of Guts over Bazuso... grew to over a 100 layers and almost 300mb now... (partially due to size 3500x5500)

Here's a current state:
(The smoke has some funny parts in it right now cuz I used bevel and emboss for the last step which doesn't suit, gotta get an alternative for it)

http://a.yfrog.com/img44/1395/zw0611201002.jpg


Still gotta make another mask for the background knights, add some scratches to all armor parts, possibly redesign all of the right side wall, correct some details on Guts, add alot of blood on his sword, add a roof to the small tower on the left side, make proper smoke, add alot of fire on the left side, think about the sky and get some kind of concept of the lightning... enough to keep me busy for decades :s

Evil3ye
November 06, 2010, 11:52 AM
3500x5500 srsly? a hell lotta ram u must have then :D
Cant work on 1000x1500 properly with my 2gb

the fire and smoke looks like pasted from a picture. dunno, try to blur it or i dunno to make it look more fitting into a manga.

Roflkopt3r
January 16, 2011, 03:19 PM
Hey, maybe someone could look in here again, as I have a question :amuse

I'm quite sure these days that I'm fine with "normal" eyes, but I've no idea of those supersized eyes like those of Nononono. This is what I made of it for now:

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/T33_K3SS3LCH3N/Photoshop/Under%20Construction%2012122010/NonononoKapitel88.jpg


Is that ok? Does perhaps someone have a good tutorial how to make them?

vintagemistakes
January 20, 2011, 11:48 AM
Are you looking for a coloring tutorial, or just a good solid drawing tutorial for over-sized eyes? or both?

As for the pic, you might want to try making the green (Iris) part of her eyes a tad bit more prominent - with all the black, it makes them look rather dark.If you start with a base color for the Iris first ( and then add in the darker areas), this might help avoid overly dark eyes...

Though, I haven't drawn or colored anything in a rather long time, so please feel free to take everything I said with a grain of salt. XD

Roflkopt3r
January 20, 2011, 02:03 PM
Only for oversized eyes actually. Yeah this is a lot of black, but I couldn't really think of a different solution. Just increasing the thickness or make it a full circle both looked terrible, what might've been due to my bad though.
Thanks for the answer however :)

On the other hand I'm thankful for any kind of input of tutorials. Not for the very basics like outlines, selection and colour layers, thanks I already know that stuff, but perhaps tutorials one or two steps further. After all I'm still mainly proceeding in a trial-and-error style.

If somebody knows a good one, no matter in which field, I'ld be glad to get a link :)

Googlez_kun
January 20, 2011, 07:25 PM
I agree with Vintage.I think you should add more green.Make the line thicker or something.Maybe you could show us other versions of the eye.You said that you tried something didn't you.

hanaogi
May 30, 2011, 03:31 AM
Just some info about PS and Illustrator that should prove interesting to y'all. My husband teaches Photoshop among other programs, and we have both worked in graphics for 22+ years. I've worked on and off, he has worked consistently in graphics is more correct… point being, I have a different experience of program use than y'all do.

COnsider learning and using Illustrator for your line work, you may find it easier.

When using the pen tool, it can be difficult to control; if you draw a curve, it will break into points that can be separately manipulated if I recall correctly. Also, you can define a curve by placing points on a curve and then manipulating the vectors until you get the right size. Of course, sometimes it's just easier to use the 'shapes' tool and not worry about anything but sizing.

Also, you don't have to use the pen tool; if you hold down the option key on Mac, and I don't know what key on a PC (never used PS or Illo on PC), you will get the pencil tool. And there is an eraser tool that works very well on the pencil tool.

It's also important to define the point size for your lines, and you can determine that size by using a decmal number like .o2, a REALLY thin line which would ease up some of the blur it sounds like you are getting, or one of the presets.

Another thing that I notice most fan art needs to do is use a line smoothing filter; the lines appear very rough, and rather than 'blurring them' you want to 'feather' them.

Also, if you learn to use your layers tool, it will make cleaning a lot easier- you can open a layer, color it white, open another layer (make it CLEAR- in fact, every additional layer needs to be 'clear), simply cut the image you want, place it on the layer, clean it, add another layer for text or whatever. The important thing is that you put only a few parts on a layer so mistakes are easier to track and correct. And the reason the upper layers are clear is so you can see everything until you reach the 'white' layer.
You can actually set a filter for the texture of the paper now too, if for example you wanted a rice paper effect in the background because there are fabric curtains or a bamboo effect for walls or exteriors. You can take your own photos and use them as layers.

Another method I have been meaning to try out is masking. There is some very good information on Illustrator at the Adobe website- http://tinyurl.com/67qe86 and since you can also mask in PS, check here http://tinyurl.com/y8t686o

At any rate, masking is a technique that allows isolation of specific areas of a drawing or photo, which you then can alter as desired.

I hope this has been helpful, and if anyone has questions I'll be glad to find the answers, and I will be even happier to provide a list of book titles used for teaching…

---------- Post added at 03:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 AM ----------

Y'all are all real kind to say thanks for this post. I appreciate the notice!

I will be taking Illustrator and Photoshop at the pro level this term for my BFA, so I will post about what I learn as often as I can, so keep an eye out for me!

BTW, I really do sound like this- I am a Texan with a grandmother from Kentucky and my best friend, with whom I grew up, and her parents started out in Tennessee!

Evil3ye
May 30, 2011, 09:01 AM
hanaogi, I really appreciate your input here. There are too little skilled people sharing stuff like that, whyever.

Definitely keeping both eyes on you, post more if you are willing to and got enough freetime. I found the post above helpful and would love to read more soon. :)

hanaogi
June 08, 2011, 01:34 AM
Dear EvilEye,

glad to be of help- what in particular was heplful so I can look further into that specific and see waht else I can dig up on that point?

---------- Post added June 08, 2011 at 01:34 AM ---------- Previous post was June 06, 2011 at 11:50 PM ----------

shoot, the thread had been inactive for so long, I wondered if anyone would ever see it. Soon as I get up to date on the new tools and such I will post more on bot Illustrator and Photoshop. IF I get to go to the National Association of Photoshop Professionals with the spouse this year, I'll try and get a couple of pros to look at some MANGA, and give me some hints- if we are lucky, may a post or two.

Wayne
December 31, 2012, 08:01 AM
Thow this Thread is Old might i recommend you use Manga Studio its just like Photoshop only it more tailored to drawing And Story Telling if you get my Drift

thare 2 versions of Manga Studio Debut and Ex Ex is the Full Featured ie Advanced version of Debut Debut tailored to Beginners

Url is http://manga.smithmicro.com/ Or you can buy it anywhere online cheaply normal recommended retail price ranges between 40 to 80 usd or lower depending ware you get it from

And for colouring thares an easy to use paint program called Sai http://sai.detstwo.com/sai/

ukimix
March 29, 2013, 10:34 AM
Ey! Probably you have seen the colour spread of One Piece chapter 703. This is it:

http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/24574/d76627245731787.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d76627245731787)

I'm impressed for this particular effect in Nami's shoulder.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1369/shouldereffect.png

I wonder how would be the process to get that effect of transparent shirt. The skin behind the shirt keeps its colour, and I think that must be very difficult to do. Can anyone offer an explanation? :-) Thanks

Googlez_kun
March 29, 2013, 11:30 AM
It's very simple and i can do a step by step if you want. Maybe later.

ukimix
March 29, 2013, 03:12 PM
It's very simple and i can do a step by step if you want. Maybe later.

I would appreciate it. It could be only a short description (when you have the time), I'm not an artist, I only wonder how could that be done. :-)

TheBoss
April 01, 2013, 03:42 PM
I miss Robin on that picture xD

I always love Oda's panels, the art is cartoonish but still gives that real feeling out of it.
Though I wished I could draw women as good as he does xP

ukimix
April 03, 2013, 03:03 PM
It's very simple and i can do a step by step if you want. Maybe later.

and...?

TheBoss
April 03, 2013, 03:31 PM
and...?
Google is forgetful xD Pm him to make him remember hahaha

ukimix
April 03, 2013, 04:40 PM
The notification soft is doing it. :-)

Arctigor
June 18, 2013, 05:36 PM
can I haz a question?
so here are for ex. these two avies

http://s17.postimg.org/4gm6147t7/Fearv2_zpsa807ae73.gif
http://s24.postimg.org/5kzmzpfs1/HG_zpsd4de4ace.gif


as you can see, there is a certain texture on both of the avies...can anyone help me how to do that in photoshop? or send me a link or whatever...
thnx in advance...:D

Googlez_kun
June 20, 2013, 05:00 AM
Google is forgetful xD Pm him to make him remember hahaha

Woops. Well, if you are still interested, yesterday I quickly did something. I'm not really good at explaining so just ask if you didn't get something.
Here goes:
So, first you have the outline.
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6885/4fra.jpg
Next you color the arm. The part beneath the sleeve shines through, so you just draw it with color and leave some parts uncolored because the shirt is not completely transparent.
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/861/q6ac.jpg
Now you add the color of the shirt and let it flow into the skin. Just combine them. You can leave some parts white for a shiny effect.
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2595/5rxa.jpg
Now you add some darker colors to give it a little more depth. The shirt needs shading after all.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3914/6in0.jpg
Last but not least you can apply some white for the glossy effect. And the shadow of the shirt, which I forgot earlier.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5987/tguq.jpg

It's really not that difficult. I'm out of practise, so it doesn't look all smooth, but that's the gist of it.

Farfalla
June 20, 2013, 06:27 PM
I thought he meant the thin lighter lines over the avys xD
If that's the case, then you need to create a new pattern on photoshop, and then add it as a new layer on top of your avy, prolly using a multiply mode or something.
Here's an example (tutorial). (http://www.gamexe.net/photoshop/creating-diagonal-line-pattern/)

Googlez_kun
June 21, 2013, 09:12 AM
I thought he meant the thin lighter lines over the avys xD
If that's the case, then you need to create a new pattern on photoshop, and then add it as a new layer on top of your avy, prolly using a multiply mode or something.
Here's an example (tutorial). (http://www.gamexe.net/photoshop/creating-diagonal-line-pattern/)

I was referring to the post at the top of the page.^^
But cool! I was wondering about that as well. Might even try something and see if I can find a simple way to answer his question. If he still needs an answer after your post that is.

---------- Post added at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------


The notification soft is doing it. :-)

Meant to quote you.

ukimix
June 21, 2013, 10:38 AM
Woops. Well, if you are still interested, yesterday I quickly did something. I'm not really good at explaining so just ask if you didn't get something.
Here goes:
So, first you have the outline.
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6885/4fra.jpg
Next you color the arm. The part beneath the sleeve shines through, so you just draw it with color and leave some parts uncolored because the shirt is not completely transparent.
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/861/q6ac.jpg
Now you add the color of the shirt and let it flow into the skin. Just combine them. You can leave some parts white for a shiny effect.
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2595/5rxa.jpg
Now you add some darker colors to give it a little more depth. The shirt needs shading after all.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3914/6in0.jpg
Last but not least you can apply some white for the glossy effect. And the shadow of the shirt, which I forgot earlier.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5987/tguq.jpg

It's really not that difficult. I'm out of practise, so it doesn't look all smooth, but that's the gist of it.

Wow! you're a master Googlez!!! Thanks a lot for the explanation :)

Arctigor
June 22, 2013, 12:56 PM
I thought he meant the thin lighter lines over the avys xD
If that's the case, then you need to create a new pattern on photoshop, and then add it as a new layer on top of your avy, prolly using a multiply mode or something.
Here's an example (tutorial). (http://www.gamexe.net/photoshop/creating-diagonal-line-pattern/)

thaaaanx a lot...I think that answers my question...xDDD
it's just what I was looking for...

Asarii
October 29, 2013, 12:05 AM
Right now I'm trying to get a hang of traditional art, but eventually I would like to try digital as well. What are some good programs that are out there? I've heard about SAI and Painter; I already have Photoshop CS4.

I'm only drawing as a hobby so I don't want anything too expensive. :sweatbunny

Bugzee
October 31, 2013, 07:08 PM
Hai Asarii!

I don't think you would need another program if you already have CS4. I guess you could consider getting a graphics tablet/drawing pad to connect to the computer if you want to explore drawing freehand digitally. I'm sure you can find cheap pads that do that no need to go for the high end ones. If you have Corel Painter then that's one of the better programs to use for your needs. You should consider another program called Artrage (http://www.artrage.com/). Apparently, that's a good one to use for freehand drawing whether it's with the mouse or a pad. Either way, whether you stick with your current programs or purchase a new one; you'll need to spend an extensive amount of time just getting grips with the tools. Then, it'll become a lot easier for you to feel comfortable with drawing, painting or whatever you want to do! =D

nanaDmari
February 27, 2014, 08:08 AM
I recently came across Mischief (http://www.madewithmischief.com/).
I really liked it because it's vector based, so you can scale the drawing as much as you like, the zoom is infinite. It's super light, and it's still on version 1.10, so there's a lot of space for improvement, but I think it has potential.
Sharing it, if anyone would like to try it out...