Mashiro and...?

[Koen]

So, we know that Mshiro wants to start another manga too. He's already checking out if he can managa drawing two in one week. Do you think he will go alone? or will he work another storywriter? and if so, who do you think he will end up with? Someone we already know?

[sir_arles]

I'd like him to go by himself. If Eiji can, he must be able to do it too.

Any other choice would seem like running away from the contest, IMO

[Kibate]

i would love to see something new

maybe working with another artist together(not as someone being an assistent, but two main artist)

[Koen]

I'd like him to go by himself too but the biggest problem he can have in this scenario is the fact that he must be able to write good a story. Mashiro is a good artist who is growing but will he be a good storywriter too? All the stories came from shuujin's mind and shuujin even has to give a lot of efforts to come up with great ones

[Kibate]

All the stories came from shuujin's mind and shuujin even has to give a lot of efforts to come up with great ones

Not exactly, a lot in the beginning and even in later years both of them brainstormed together to form the ideas.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Not exactly, a lot in the beginning and even in later years both of them brainstormed together to form the ideas.

Coming up with ideas and actually writing them into a viable story are two completely different things.

Writing isn't something you learn that easily. It's not something you can just be hit on by "inspiration" and become good at it. I hate when people say that writing is easier than drawing because...It really isn't. It's just that unless you take the time to read it, you don't know the difference between someone writing crap and someone writing a masterpiece, while drawing produces direct results for everyone to look at.

There are people who say they can't draw at all, and that's true. They can only draw stick figures. And there are people who say they can write well, but in reality their writing is nothing more than a well disguised stick figure.

I don't think Mashiro will pick up writing skills out of nowhere. It's not something you can just "pick up" from watching someone do it. You gotta practice a lot yourself before being able to do it well, and he just doesn't have that sort of practice. His storytelling might be okay since the text-to-image shift, but his writing will still be atrocious. He knows how to direct, not how to write.

He can be Michael Bay whenever he want, but he won't be William Goldman so easily.

[sir_arles]

But we have to keep in mind he's gonna make a mainstream manga that can get an anime.

That's a lot different from trying to write a non mainstream manga that survives in Shounen Jump.

Mainstream is easier to write, since it has lots of clichés and "formulas" that Saiko already knows and understands.

Anyway, making a mainstream manga that actually survives in Jump can also be pretty hard. But with the drawing level that he now has and a mediocre/good shounen plot he might survive long enough to learn in the process and get to an anime. Maybe.

I'm not saying writing is easy. I'm saying that surviving with mainstream in Jump is easier than surviving with non mainstream manga.

[MCCmonkey]

i am not really sure but this page (http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereading/?image=Bakuman/Bakuman%20c103/03.png&server=nas.html) tell me that he may end teaming up with iwase, but as some people have said before, writting on his own or wrtting the story of a new character is also a posibility

[Tick]

I'd like him to go by himself. If Eiji can, he must be able to do it too.

Man, Eiji is a monster, he just lives for manga. There is no way to compare them.

No one can be good at something all of a sudden. Even if, someday he writes and draw his own series, I guess he is not ready yet.

[sir_arles]

I don't mean he actually is capable of doing it. I'm saying that if his goal, his motivation, is to equal or surpass Eiji, in order to achieve that he MUST be able to do a manga by himself.

Otherwise, Saiko will never reach Eiji's level.

If he just keeps being an "illustrator", he'll never get the recognition he seeks as a mangaka and as an artist.

That was my point.

[Koen]

i am not really sure but this page (http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereading/?image=Bakuman/Bakuman%20c103/03.png&server=nas.html) tell me that he may end teaming up with iwase, but as some people have said before, writting on his own or wrtting the story of a new character is also a posibility

Well, I didn't dare to announce it but that's what I have been thinking too. Mashiro going all alone is nice but impossible. He can't draw two mangas in a week and come up with a story for one at the same time. He needs a storyteller and Iwase seems to be the best person for that. It would be nice if Rabuta and Mashiro's newest manga would do harm to PcP's quality...

I like to see him with Iwase
[hr]

Not exactly, a lot in the beginning and even in later years both of them brainstormed together to form the ideas.

One but drawing two mangas in a week is such a workload that coming up with a story can't be done.

[DidCart]

Hey hey hey, guys!

I'm reading some people here saying that he can't be recognized as a mangaka if he can't come up with his own stories and I say that's not true.

Take Obata as an example. C'mon. A lot of people read Obata's mangas because it's Obata drawing them. We can't say Obata isn't a mangaka and, as I remember, he isn't this good with writing, is he?

[sir_arles]

Then again, I'm always talking about his rivalry with Eiji. IMO, Saiko has to be able to ever or surpass Eiji in order to consider himself the winner.

On the get recognition as a "better mangaka than Eiji", I'm not saying that he's a bad mangaka because he doesn't write the stories, or anything like that.

Just wanted to make that clear.

[Kibate]

One but drawing two mangas in a week is such a workload that coming up with a story can't be done.

actually it is quite easy, at least for me, and people complimated me on my storys a lot(not for my drawings though XP they are decent at best)
how do i know that it can be done even though i am obviously not in the same position as mashiro? Easy, there are three places/times i imagine my storys.
1. When i'm in bed trying to sleep, i always imagine a new story or a continuation of an old story
2. Toilet, instead of reading newspaper, just making up a new manga idea
3. On the bus/train(if you use them), here too, way too much time people don't use

I have been able to imagine so many storys, even if i were to write them all down i wouldn't be able to finish them until i die. You might say now "pff, most of them are most likely boring anyway" the thing is, i have the theory that ANY story can be turned into a good manga, and since mashiros art is top-tier he can even lack a bit on the story.

[Sherlock Holmes]

actually it is quite easy, at least for me, and people complimated me on my storys a lot(not for my drawings though XP they are decent at best)
how do i know that it can be done even though i am obviously not in the same position as mashiro? Easy, there are three places/times i imagine my storys.
1. When i'm in bed trying to sleep, i always imagine a new story or a continuation of an old story
2. Toilet, instead of reading newspaper, just making up a new manga idea
3. On the bus/train(if you use them), here too, way too much time people don't use

I have been able to imagine so many storys, even if i were to write them all down i wouldn't be able to finish them until i die. You might say now "pff, most of them are most likely boring anyway" the thing is, i have the theory that ANY story can be turned into a good manga, and since mashiros art is top-tier he can even lack a bit on the story.

Mind if I ask what kind of experience you have, since you say it is easy to make a story?

Also, if you do webcomics, I'm sorry to say that it isn't the same thing. With webcomics you are more likely to receive compliments than anything else. Moreover, you have no one to answer to but yourself. You are your own boss, so there is no one truly judging your work. Just a few people who like it enough to follow it, and the rest simply doesn't bother to criticize it.

With mangas it's very different, as they have one of the harshest critique systems in the world. Even publishing books seems easier than writing mangas constantly. Well, I only have experience with one spectrum of the equation, but writing mangas seem pretty damn hard if Bakuman is any indication.

Also uh, it's easy to have an idea anywhere. It is however hard to make those ideas worth anything. If Mashiro wanted to draw two webcomics at once with the same number of pages he is doing now, he could do it without a problem. But in mangas, with the ultra harsh ranking system? Yyyyeah no. You cannot just be lacking in the story department if you have good art. You either have both, or Jump will cancel you and tell you to be someone's artist.

Sorry if this came out offensive, I didn't mean it that way.

[Kibate]

I don't care about the offensive, but please don't assume i do webcomics or something just because you don't know my name.

And no, i don't do webcomics, i write manga, and no, not a handfull of people praised my storys, but several hundreads. Both online and offline. Of course i'm still unknown because those storys are not written down or drawn.(and hearing about a story is different than actual seeing it, i know that much) only a few them, and only recently i've started to be a real puplished comic/manga artist.

Anyway, back to your points
With "ideas" i didn't mean "let's write an action story about ...a guy who got a sword...and he is partly dragon, also he got a rival" thats not an idea, thats nothing. I'm actual talking about plot, character personalitys, scenery etc., basically everything.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I don't care about the offensive, but please don't assume i do webcomics or something just because you don't know my name.

That's certainly not why I assumed you drew webcomics. It was because you mentioned your drawings were not so good, which generally is not a trait a professional has, and because generally no one both draws and writes their own comic in the west, and your profile says you are from Germany.


And no, i don't do webcomics, i write manga, and no, not a handfull of people praised my storys, but several hundreads. Both online and offline. Of course i'm still unknown because those storys are not written down or drawn.(and hearing about a story is different than actual seeing it, i know that much) only a few them, and only recently i've started to be a real puplished comic/manga artist.

I have to ask, but how did you get praise from "several hundreds" of people if those stories "are not written down or drawn" yet? Also, what country are you publishing those stories in?


Anyway, back to your points
With "ideas" i didn't mean "let's write an action story about ...a guy who got a sword...and he is partly dragon, also he got a rival" thats not an idea, thats nothing. I'm actual talking about plot, character personalitys, scenery etc., basically everything.

So thinking of plots whenever you can? That's not a good idea. Personally, my editor recommends me to give it a break once in a while or else the stories don't come out as good. I write murder mysteries(well, murder mystery in the moment. Coming out in '11. Hopefully it will become mysteries, plural, very soon) so that's generally how I work.

I don't really believe that someone can come up with a good story by allowing himself no rest, or that you can think of GOOD personalities/setting/everything while on a bus.

As for your claim of being able to draw/think two stories in one week, Mashiro is very detailed with his art. His art's quality would go down if he tried. Good art takes time to get done.

If he did a monthly manga though, that would probably be possibleish if he had enough assistants.

[Kibate]

That's certainly not why I assumed you drew webcomics. It was because you mentioned your drawings were not so good, which generally is not a trait a professional has, and because generally no one both draws and writes their own comic in the west, and your profile says you are from Germany.

Heh, because i said "my drawings are not so good"? You should know, at least to my opinion, only a real artist says his own art isn't good, because everyone has room to develope, even the best among the best. Saying you are good equals you don't need to try any harder, because you are already good. Not to mention this will keep the haters away "don't think too highly of yourself, you say your art is good but its shit" won't happen.
Not to mention, even a bad artist can do mangaka, there have been several examples in japans history that show this. Look at Oda from Onepiece, WOAH, don't start hating on me yet, i love onepiece, and i love oda and i love his art style, but its the simple matter of fact that his "art" is not as good as others(except for his backgrounds), both in the ealier and in the later volumes he is doing really incredible mistakes on easy parts. I know he got a lot of good points too, but saying odas art is (compared to other mangaka) good is laughable. REMEMBER i love onepiece, no hating!

I don't know how it is in other parts of europe, but here in germany we mostly only have 1 person on a manga, not two. Mostly because original manga/comics from germany are still very rare and therefore no one is forced to team up with someone to get the deadline. Yet, thats what my company is trying to change though(among other things)



I have to ask, but how did you get praise from "several hundreds" of people if those stories "are not written down or drawn" yet? Also, what country are you publishing those stories in?
I said that i already have SOME of them published, but like a handful(actually even less, but thats emberassing right now to talk about while acting all high and mighty XP but soon it will be a lot more)
Germany of course, the comic industry is in germany at a incredible low, there is not one comic right now that is known internationally, thats why my company deciding to do everything here because we want to show that germany can do comic/manga too.

And yes, you most likely realized it by now, i am a co-founder of the company haha, thats why we are still pretty unknown(because it started only this year)



So thinking of plots whenever you can? That's not a good idea. Personally, my editor recommends me to give it a break once in a while or else the stories don't come out as good. I write murder mysteries(well, murder mystery in the moment. Coming out in '11. Hopefully it will become mysteries, plural, very soon) so that's generally how I work.

I don't really believe that someone can come up with a good story by allowing himself no rest, or that you can think of GOOD personalities/setting/everything while on a bus.

No no, you misunderstood what i said. Yes, i imagine a lot of storys, but if i like an idea enough to draw/write it i will concrentrate on it more than on the others. I've done two big projects and several smaller ones, and all of those storys had development over years before i actually started drawing them. It's not like i am sitting on the toilet "hey, let's make a manga about this and that" and next day i give the manusscript to my publishers, no no no



As for your claim of being able to draw/think two stories in one week, Mashiro is very detailed with his art. His art's quality would go down if he tried. Good art takes time to get done.
ehm, i never said that. I said he can certinaly do think up storys while working on two series
but in my first post in this thread i said he should team up with another mangaka.(not as asisstents, but cooperating)
In other words
Working full time as a drawer on the 1. Manga
Working hallf time as a drawer on the 2. Manga
And working full time as a writer on the 2. Manga

something like that

p.s., before any bitching comes to me because i am still technically an amateur and still say all those things

i don't say all those things because i disrespect professional mangaka or because i think of myself too highly, but because i want people to keep the hope of the possiblity that they can do anything. Just because no one else does it, or only a select few geniuses, doesn't mean it can't be done by you or me.
People told me i can never be a published mangaka, for several reasons, and even though i only started this year and am still unknown and my company is more or less just only on paper yet, i still managed to come this far and won't stop anytime soon.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Heh, because i said "my drawings are not so good"? You should know, at least to my opinion, only a real artist says his own art isn't good, because everyone has room to develope, even the best among the best. Saying you are good equals you don't need to try any harder, because you are already good. Not to mention this will keep the haters away "don't think too highly of yourself, you say your art is good but its shit" won't happen.

"I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one's self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one's own powers."

Besides, you did speak well of your writing before, so I didn't think modesty as an issue here.



And yes, you most likely realized it by now, i am a co-founder of the company haha, thats why we are still pretty unknown(because it started only this year)
Good luck then.



ehm, i never said that. I said he can certinaly do think up storys while working on two series
but in my first post in this thread i said he should team up with another mangaka.(not as asisstents, but cooperating)
In other words
Working full time as a drawer on the 1. Manga
Working hallf time as a drawer on the 2. Manga
And working full time as a writer on the 2. Manga


Considering the amount of time he takes drawing things, I doubt it.




p.s., before any bitching comes to me because i am still technically an amateur and still say all those things

i don't say all those things because i disrespect professional mangaka or because i think of myself too highly, but because i want people to keep the hope of the possiblity that they can do anything. Just because no one else does it, or only a select few geniuses, doesn't mean it can't be done by you or me.
People told me i can never be a published mangaka, for several reasons, and even though i only started this year and am still unknown and my company is more or less just only on paper yet, i still managed to come this far and won't stop anytime soon.
No one said anything, no need to get defensive.

[natli]

I also think Mashiro should end up with Iwase because of the hilarious reactions of all the people around them and because Iwase/Mashiro team would have potential. Together they could go places. Iwase/Shujin rivarly would enter a new and fascinating stage XD

[suicune123]

I honestly thought Iwase was going to team up with Mashiro. Iwase was looking for an artist and Mashiro was looking for a story. It would have been great to see them join forces and maybe see Azuki getting a bit jealous...it would've have been a great storyline. Oh well...our ideas submit themselves to the realm of doujinshi and fanfiction. There must be a way we can give our ideas to the mangakas!

[Reclaimer]

I honestly thought Iwase was going to team up with Mashiro. Iwase was looking for an artist and Mashiro was looking for a story. It would have been great to see them join forces and maybe see Azuki getting a bit jealous...it would've have been a great storyline. Oh well...our ideas submit themselves to the realm of doujinshi and fanfiction. There must be a way we can give our ideas to the mangakas!
Mashiro + Iwase would have been so awful that I would have quit reading immediately. The competition for rankings would have been nothing short of a clusterfuck, especially since at the time this was a possibility we were faced with the possibility of Shiratori + Takagi.

Who do you root for?
PCP?
Hypothetical M+I?
Peace?

All of them to beat Crow and +Natural? But wait, Iwase would likely become a more sympathetic character, so should we also root for +Natural?

[suicune123]

Hmm...not only would making Iwase and Mashiro team for a ONE-SHOT have been a great storyline, it would make for a more realistic interpretation of what actually happens in the world of making manga. Manga artists work with many writers in order to build their skills, indeed Takeshi Obata has worked with numerous other writers to make manga. If indeed Mahsiro and Iwase did make a one-shot and it was put forward for serialisation, Mashiro would've have backed-out anyway. Hypothetically speaking, the storyline would've have been great in my view. :)