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kadodo
December 07, 2006, 11:57 PM
It seems to me in the previous chapters that Ichigo's dad, Ishida's dad and Urahara know eacgh other Anybody has any ideas what the relationship betweeen them could be?

voldy18
December 08, 2006, 07:37 AM
Ah, one of the great mysteries of Bleach! :smile-big
There are so many possbilities.... Uruhara and Isshin might know each other from SS or they might have met only after Isshin decided to stay in the real world. Ryuuken and Isshin might have met when they were fighting Hollows, or in med-school or somewhere else. Uruhara and Ryuuken might have met through Isshin. We don't know.
However, I got the impression that Ryuuken and Isshin used to be friends. Whereas Isshin and Uruhara seem to have a more distant relationship. And Ryuuken and Uruhara don't seem to like each other much - or at least Ryuuken doesn't like Uruhara. I might be wrong though.

Luna
December 08, 2006, 08:14 AM
It seems to me in the previous chapters that Ichigo's dad, Ishida's dad and Urahara know eacgh other Anybody has any ideas what the relationship betweeen them could be?


a threesome? :XD

Cyven
December 08, 2006, 09:13 AM
huzzah~
my theory:


Isshin was Urahara's vice captain, something happened that caused Isshin to lose his trust in Urahara and so they became distanced (this could be about the time when Isshin moved to earth, I think he moved BEFORE Urahara was banished)

On earth, he met Ryuuken, methinks it happened similar to how Ichigo met Uryuu. Their relationship probably evolved similarly... Though Isshin might be more friendly to Ryuuken than Ryuuken to Isshin, because of his grudge against Shinigami.

This could be about when Urahara & Yoruichi left Soul Society, I think Urahara was aware of Ichigo (or perhaps Ichigo was already born and Urahara did something to him?) and therefore chose to stay in town, to guide him, so he'd grow up to his full potential.

Isshin and Ryuuken must have picked up on Urahara's presence, neither of them seem like the type to pay him any visits, given the situation.

So... to summarize:

Isshin likes Ryuuken, but he has a grudge against Urahara.
Urahara likes Isshin, doesn't care for Ryuuken more than he would for an ally.
Ryuuken respects Isshin, but his grudge against Shinigami is keeping him from becoming too close. He doesn't care for Urahara.

ibra87
December 08, 2006, 10:24 AM
Well, we do know that Urahara caused Isshin's reiatsu to disappear. Since he was banished because of doing such bodies that don't regenerate chakra, it wouldn't surprise me if he gave Isshin one of those.

kurosakistrawberry
December 08, 2006, 03:28 PM
I have a problem with the idea of Isshin being Urahara's former vice-captain. I thought that was probably Tessai.

Cyven
December 08, 2006, 05:11 PM
I have a problem with the idea of Isshin being Urahara's former vice-captain. I thought that was probably Tessai.


methinks Tessai, Jinta and Ururu are konpaku that Urahara designed himself.

kurosakistrawberry
December 08, 2006, 05:45 PM
I can see Ururu as being an artificial soul, but Jinta seems more like a real human. I don't think Tessai is an artificial soul, could an artificial soul do a Way of Binding Number 99?

Cyven
December 08, 2006, 05:57 PM
I can see Ururu as being an artificial soul, but Jinta seems more like a real human. I don't think Tessai is an artificial soul, could an artificial soul do a Way of Binding Number 99?


Jinta seems more like a real human the way Kon seems like a real human, if you catch my drift.

And hey, if Urahara can make the hougyouku, do you really think it's THAT far-fetched for him to be able to create a mod soul as strong as Tessai? besides, what defines a shinigami? zanpakutoh. Ururu uses a rocket launcher, Jinta a mallet and Tessai fights with his bare hands. Why doesn't he use a zanpakutoh? Anyway this is getting off-topic.

kadodo
December 09, 2006, 02:19 PM
a threesome? :XD

you a real pervert![br]Posted on: December 08, 2006, 06:42:05 PM_________________________________________________

Well, we do know that Urahara caused Isshin's reiatsu to disappear. Since he was banished because of doing such bodies that don't regenerate chakra, it wouldn't surprise me if he gave Isshin one of those.

Don't you mean reatsu instead of chakra?[br]Posted on: December 08, 2006, 06:45:13 PM_________________________________________________

Well, we do know that Urahara caused Isshin's reiatsu to disappear. Since he was banished because of doing such bodies that don't regenerate chakra, it wouldn't surprise me if he gave Isshin one of those.

Wasn't Urahara also banished for making that thing he inserted inside Rukia?
Also I was thinking that maybe Isshin and Urahara were banished at the same time.

Cyven
December 09, 2006, 06:28 PM
I doubt it... Isshin left to live in the living world with his wife and have a family and all that fun stuff...

besides, it's obvious Isshin doesn't trust Urahara as much as he used to, I'm sticking to my theory: Isshin moved out first and when Urahara got kicked out, he moved into the same town.

kadodo
December 09, 2006, 06:42 PM
Maybe Isshin moved out because of the king?

kurosakistrawberry
December 10, 2006, 05:46 PM
Can't wait to see who the king is...

I suppose Tessai and Jinta could be mod souls. If so, then Ichigo's dad would by my first bet on who Urahara's vice-captain was. But, doesn't it seem like they would be closer if they had been captain and subordinate?

kiddo7
December 10, 2006, 09:18 PM
Not neccesarily, We actually know next to nothing of how one becomes a vice captain, and when you think about it many of the captain/vice captain pairs are eccentric enough to let you beleive that the two could not have chosen to be paired. For instance, I doubt Hitsugaya chose Rangiku, or that Nanao wanted to work under Kyuraku, even less do I beleive that Soi Fong, wanted the fat man as her second in command. As always I could be wrong on this one too, all I am saying is that we don't know one way or another how a captein gets his/her vice. And therefor we cannot assume that they would neccesarily be on good terms with each other.

Talk about a long answer to a simple question...

kurosakistrawberry
December 11, 2006, 12:27 AM
Yeah, I REALLY doubt that Soi Fon chose that guy as her vice-captain. And Renji doesn't seem to get along with Byakuya that well either.

Cyven
December 11, 2006, 09:29 AM
Renji holds Byakuya in high regards and strives to one day become as strong as Byakuya is, I personally think Isshin and Urahara used to get along really well but that something happened to cause Isshin to distance himself from Urahara.

just read my earlier posts, I don't feel like repeating myself.

ibra87
December 11, 2006, 05:35 PM
Wasn't Urahara also banished for making that thing he inserted inside Rukia?
Also I was thinking that maybe Isshin and Urahara were banished at the same time.

Oh yes, I forgot about that! I also think that Isshin disappeared about the same time Urahara did. Maybe something Urahara did got him in trouble then Isshin had to rescure him, thus he got banished away from SS.

And yes, I meant reiatsu. My bad xD.

kadodo
December 11, 2006, 05:38 PM
I'm also thinking maybe that Isshin lost his powers somehow because of Urahara.
I also wonder if Isshin was in SS and escaped, does SS knows that he's on earth?

ibra87
December 11, 2006, 05:40 PM
I'm also thinking maybe that Isshin lost his powers somehow because of Urahara.
I also wonder if Isshin was in SS and escaped, does SS knows that he's on earth?

We do know that Isshin lost his powers because of Urahara. And as far as I know, SS thought that Isshin was dead. Remember when Soi Fon met Yoruichi? She said stuff about how she thought was dead. So if they knew anything, then it would be top secret. Otherwise they would have sent captains after them.

Cyven
December 11, 2006, 06:00 PM
why are my posts ignored? ;-; sheesh you put in some effort and you get this in return o.O;

ibra87
December 11, 2006, 06:03 PM
why are my posts ignored? ;-; sheesh you put in some effort and you get this in return o.O;
Sorry bout that Cyvern, too many posts on this forum it's hard for people to answer everything :scry.

But I agree with you. Isshin must have gotten along really well with Urahara but something got them away from each other. We're just trying to figure out what.

kadodo
December 11, 2006, 06:11 PM
We do know that Isshin lost his powers because of Urahara. And as far as I know, SS thought that Isshin was dead. Remember when Soi Fon met Yoruichi? She said stuff about how she thought was dead. So if they knew anything, then it would be top secret. Otherwise they would have sent captains after them.

How do we know that? And I'm not sure I remember SS thinking Isshin was dead. If you know what chapter it was in let me know.
P.S. Was Soi Fon Yoruichi's ex subordinate?

kiddo7
December 11, 2006, 06:34 PM
P.S. Was Soi Fon Yoruichi's ex subordinate?

Yes, she was the girls that was made the captain of yoruichi's bodyguard a short while before she ditched Soul Society

nick572
December 11, 2006, 07:10 PM
I came up with an idea a while back,

Isshin's wife / Ichigo's mother was Ryuuken's sister.
This would explain the way Isshin and Ryuuken get along.

I gather that Isshin left SS before Uruhara.
This could have been because he fell in love with Icchigo's mother (who would have been a quency)
and due to the "rules/laws" of SS he could not do anything with her.

So, he would have had to find a way to leave SS.

I believe the only way this could be done is to fake his death.
The best part is I think he was the 11th squad captain (the one Kenpachi "killed" in front of 200? people,
(that would have been the best way to disappear) AND he is related to Byakuya, either his dad or older brother.
I get this from when Ukitake saw Ichigo for the first time he was stunned and asked Byakuya who he was and Byakuya replied he was not of any relation, b/c he looked like his senior. (I take senior to mean older brother or perhaps father)

Then Uruhara was the one who helped Isshin pull off his "death" and later met him back in the real world once he left SS.

So this would make Ichigo half quency and half nobility of SS. :smile-big


(I know I probably misspelled some of those names.)

ttxdragon
December 11, 2006, 07:15 PM
I get this from when Ukitake saw Ichigo for the first time he was stunned and asked Byakuya who he was and Byakuya replied he was not of any relation, b/c he looked like his senior. (I take senior to mean older brother or perhaps father)

ukitake remarked about ichigo looking a great deal like Kaien Shiba, the one superior of Rukia that she "killed"... he was ukitakes vice captain

nick572
December 11, 2006, 07:35 PM
Ok, I had that part wrong . I got the relation to Byakuya idea from the anime, but I just reread the manga and yep, I was wrong, but what about the 11th squad captain idea?

ttxdragon
December 11, 2006, 07:53 PM
but what about the 11th squad captain idea?

possible and undeniable a way of fitting him in. I don't know where and when but i think i had the same thought about him leading the 11th squad a while back.
the diffrence though being that isshin deserted a while back, then another captain took over, isshins case got forgotten and then zaraki killed the new captain...
i can't see isshin going through the trouble of faking his death... with his strength and uraharas help he can get away by other means that don't create such an uproar.
and i think it must have been a long time since isshin left. because otherwise they would probably have made a connection between ichigo and isshin... as the reiatsu of father and son should resemble each other at least in a slight way...

if isshin had to fake his death the easiest way wouldve been in the quincy-war...

to come back to the topic:
isshin and urahara knew each other because of duties, grew befriended because of their similar characters and urahara helped isshin when he fled...
i won't deny masaki being ryuukens sister is a possibility, but i don't like what that sounds like...
ichigo would be a quincy/shinigami/hollow mix... that's a bit too much for my taste...

nick572
December 11, 2006, 08:06 PM
I was just going on the asumption that Isshin was captain class and clearly no one in SS is thinking about him other wise they would have already made that connection with Ichigo. Then the only way to "disapear" without anyone looking for you is to fake your death. Then the only captain to die mentioned in the manga was the 11th.

and from chpt 188 we can gather that it was 20 years ago when Isshin left SS.

Cyven
December 11, 2006, 08:13 PM
How did Ichigo get his Hollow side in the first place? Eh? Eh?

It could be the reason Isshin lost his trust in Urahara: Ichigo was experimented on by Urahara, when he did research in the Hougyouku o.o

Hell, any dad would be ticked off if he found out a close friend used his son as a guinea pig.

I mean, Ichigo's Hollow side can't possibly be genetic, with a Shinigami father and a (presumably*) human mother, the Hollow part just doesn't fit in. Perhaps Ichigo, along with the vaizard, are results of Urahara's testing?
Sure, it seems like something Kurotsuchi might do, but Urahara does seem to have a darker side to him.

*I say presumably, because I'm not convinced his mother is 100% pure human, I even think she might've had some spiritual powers of her own, at least the ability to *see* Isshin, how else would love be possible between them? (Ruling out the possibility of him parading about in a gigai).

ttxdragon
December 11, 2006, 09:01 PM
nick572,
assuming that isshin has to have left SS 20 years ago because he has given up his shinigami side 20 years ago is not really a safe bet.
something in the real world could've triggered it, that he wanted a normal life with a normal body...


cyven,
urahara performing experiments on Ichigo... it might be a possibility, but i can't picture urahara doing that to one of his friends sons... he may be a lil insane and carefree on the surface, but he is still good to his comrade, helps when needed and is really considerate.

the hollow side musn't be genetic,
there i would have to state a longer theory i am not up for to state right now ^^;


one last comment, i don't see why isshin lost his trust into urahara... urahara is a very peculiar person and the relationship between somebody and urahara will always be somewhat "abnormal".

kiddo7
December 12, 2006, 12:11 AM
Why is it so hard to accept that ichigo could have gotten his hollow powers when his soul was in that hole and he waited untill the last second before "turning into a shinigami"? His soul literally degenerated into a hollow, just like orihimes brother. By finding his shinigami powers with the help of Zangetsu, he managed to stop the process before it went to completion and therefore inadvertantly made himself into a vizard/arancar (whether he is a hollow who turned back into a shinigami or a shinigami who prevented himself from turning fuly into a hollow can be debated, especially since it all happened at the very last minute and we don't know exactly what went on in the hole.) the question is not so much where did the hollow come from but much rather, where does ge get all that spiritual power from? it is his same spiritual power that feeds both the hollow and the shinigami but how come he can have a spirit pressure so much greater than even some captins?

kadodo
December 12, 2006, 07:46 AM
I think that's still a mystery about him having so much spiritual pressure. Sincerely, I think Isshin something to do with it.

Jammer
December 13, 2006, 02:28 AM
well here's my theory on the topic
who's the king - isshin's the king and here's the proof: 1) he is an idiot; 2)he can get really serious... blah j/k

so... isshin is probably someone from the royal families (like Byakuya is) - that'd explain Ichigo's high spiritual pressure (or whatever)... he probably was friend with urahara back in SS. when urahara was banished because of his research on the untraceable bodies isshin decides to go with him to earth - why? - to protect the hougyoku (another thing might be that isshin using his influence as a member of a royal family tries to help urahara to stay in SS but couldn't do it and is fed up with SS's bureucracy). and that's 100+ years ago. when yoruichi learns about this she surprisingly leaves her post to chase after urahara (she's another firend of his). those three settle on Earth and fight hollows and stuff while urahara finds a way to seal the hougyoku. then the pressure gets down - isshin wants to start a new life on Earth - he gets one of those special untraceable bodies from urahara and starts being a normal human being - going to a medical school where he gets to know ryuken - they become friends. ryuken doesn't know that isshin is a shinigami because of the special body (forgot the exact name). at some moment ryuken sees isshin talking with urahara and gets to know that they're both shinigami. 20 years ago isshin falls in love - they even might have been rivals with ryuken - fighting over a woman - what a classic way to ruin a friendship (so Ryuken hates shinigamis for taking his girlfriend o.O) :D everytime when a child of isshin is born urahara seals their powers. but ichigo awakens his reiatsu when he touches the ghost of the little girl in the beginning of bleach.

sorry for the long post, just got carried away with my theoris here :lol

Silhouette
January 09, 2007, 11:07 PM
It all happened becaused of a beautiful love story between Isshin and his wife with two possibilities: Either Ichigo's mom was royalty or just an normal human being

Starting with Isshin's wife being royalty.
Issin and Urahara knew each other, Isshin was in the royal gaurd and Urahara in charge of the research division in SS. They came to know each other becasue Urahara's involvement in researches realted to the king of SS. Isshin fell in love with his wife who is daughter/relative of the king. Despite Isshin's high rank, his social class is not hight enough for the king to agree on the marriage from Ichigo's mom. Urahara came up with the best scheme to make his friend -Isshin- get his girl. If both Isshin and his wife were to lose thier power and become fit to live in the real world then Ichigo's mom is not a royalty anymore and it's less likely the king will follow with revenge becasue it's his daughter/relative after all. Exile from SS and the loss of shinigami power is enough punishment for the couple who are in love. That was followed by kicking Urahara -who opposes the social traditions of SS- from SS as well. Youruichi also gets kicked out because she uses her access to intellegence information to make Isshin's escape possible....she did it becasue of her deep friendship with Urahara and due to her rebellious character as well.
Some can say: why didn't Ichigo's mom see Grand Fisher? the answer is simple, it's either she saw GF and sacrificed her life to save Ichigo since she lost her Shinigami power and couldn't fight GF, or her powers were still too weak to detect GF. I tend to like the first possibility better because Isshin knew who killed his wife and was mad becasue he couldn't protect her.
Ishida's dad is a Quincy who Isshin knew before losing Shinigami power and got to know him more after moving to the real world...may be even they attendened the same medecine school.


Assuming Ichigo's mom was normal human, Isshin fell in love with her and Urahara used his research to make him able to live in the real world. Urahara got kicked out of SS for that and Youruici stood against SS because of loyalty to her dear friend Urahara.
Ishida's dad had his eyes on Ichigo's mom but Isshin won her love because he is funnier than the stuck up doctor. Yeah Ichigo's mom liked humor over money. However, Ishin got his medical degree just in case :p
Since then Ishida's dad could not stand the sight of Isshin.

Click on thumb below too see that Isshin gave up his hinigami powers willingly

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8126/mangarainbleachch18806xi6.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8126/mangarainbleachch18806xi6.jpg)

kadodo
January 09, 2007, 11:22 PM
These are pretty good theories you got there guys.(especially for Jammer and Silhouette).
It might be true that Isshin is in the royal family like Byakuga but I wonder how Ichigo's mom got into the whole thing. Was she a shinimagi as well or was she a human strong enough to see Isshin? I wonder if she was one the reasons that Isshin is on earth and not in SS.

Silhouette
January 09, 2007, 11:41 PM
These are pretty good theories you got there guys.(especially for Jammer and Silhouette).
It might be true that Isshin is in the royal family like Byakuga but I wonder how Ichigo's mom got into the whole thing. Was she a shinimagi as well or was she a human strong enough to see Isshin? I wonder if she was one the reasons that Isshin is on earth and not in SS.


Thank you kadodo.
About you question,..my WHOLE theory was based on Ichigo's mom and it perfectly answers your question please read it even though it's long :scry

pelias
January 19, 2007, 10:02 AM
i believe that ishin is strong enough to be not vicecaptain of no one, the thing he wears in his left arm is not about a vicecaptain or either a captain, athink higher level or ocupation, his totally lack of respect for urahara doses not show presicely a subordinate

AreoXIII
January 21, 2007, 01:15 AM
Jinta seems more like a real human the way Kon seems like a real human, if you catch my drift.

And hey, if Urahara can make the hougyouku, do you really think it's THAT far-fetched for him to be able to create a mod soul as strong as Tessai? besides, what defines a shinigami? zanpakutoh. Ururu uses a rocket launcher, Jinta a mallet and Tessai fights with his bare hands. Why doesn't he use a zanpakutoh? Anyway this is getting off-topic.




Urahara-Captain
Apron guy-second in command
Ururu-3rd in command(like how ukitake has 3 people with him same with kenpachi)
Jinta-4th in command

Isshin-captain
Movie guy-the guy with white hair in a bleach movie

Ishida's father-Famous quincy warrior whos powers were removed due to other quincies snitching.Thats why he hates quincy.XD

kadodo
January 26, 2007, 01:28 PM
It's true that we don't know how the captains choose their Vice Captains but if we assume that Uruhara and Isshin are both at Captain level. Which one of them was the Captain and who was the Vice Captain.

Silhouette
January 27, 2007, 03:41 AM
Isshin was Byakuya's senior

kadodo
January 27, 2007, 12:05 PM
So are you saying that Ishhin is part of the loyal family?
Personally, I don't think so because when Byakuya came on earth, heknew Ichigo's first and last name right? why did he never mention anything about his dad?

also do you guys think that Isshin might know who rukia is or the thing that was inside her?

kiddo7
January 27, 2007, 03:42 PM
He definately knows about the hogyouku, he was talking with Kisuke about it. I am guessing he knows about Rukia too since she was living in his house, and as it turns out Isshin is a rather perceptive guy who does not let things slip by him easily, even when people put in extra effort to hide them, case in point: Kon.

Silhouette
January 28, 2007, 04:07 AM
So are you saying that Ishhin is part of the loyal family?
Personally, I don't think so because when Byakuya came on earth, heknew Ichigo's first and last name right? why did he never mention anything about his dad?

also do you guys think that Isshin might know who rukia is or the thing that was inside her?


I said Isshin is Byakuya's senior because of what happened in ep 41, when Ukitake met Ichigo for the 1st time and Byakuya was there

in spoiler tags because the pics are a bit big and excuse the quality

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2167/10zn9.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1125/11ec3.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3497/12jh3.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3712/13dp9.jpg

I think Byakuya just refuses to admit it, besides he never met Ichigo's dad when he came to the material world

ttxdragon
January 28, 2007, 07:36 AM
ummm...
i think it's more about Kaien Shiba in that scene...
seein as he was ukitakes vice and that ichigo looks more than anything like a blond clone of Kaien....

Silhouette
January 28, 2007, 09:00 AM
But kaien wasn't Byakuya's senior. The man that came across Ukitake's mind was Byakuya's senior as Byakuya himself said in the 3rd pic...this is why I thought of Isshin

kadodo
January 28, 2007, 09:45 AM
I said Isshin is Byakuya's senior because of what happened in ep 41, when Ukitake met Ichigo for the 1st time and Byakuya was there

in spoiler tags because the pics are a bit big and excuse the quality


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3497/12jh3.jpg


I think Byakuya just refuses to admit it, besides he never met Ichigo's dad when he came to the material world


I never realized it but that pic makes me think that Ukitake is Byakuka's senior. Why would Ukitake be so surprised when he saw Ichigo? Byakuka was not talking about Isshin's dad when he said:"At least not the man who just flash through your mind, my senior" Byakuka should have realized it was Isshin's son when he went to earth because both Isshin and Ichigo have the same last name. If they did not realize it was Isshin's son that means that if Isshin was in SS he had another name. The only reasoning I came up with like ttxdragon said is probably because Ichigo looks just like Kaien but with blond hair.

Silhouette
January 28, 2007, 09:59 AM
I think it's a mistake in the punctuation for Byakuya has never treated Ukitake as a senior...if any one speaks Japanese please help us ...it's in ep 41

kadodo
January 28, 2007, 10:06 AM
I think it's a mistake in the punctuation for Byakuya has never treated Ukitake as a senior...if any one speaks Japanese please help us ...it's in ep 41

Yeah I think we need to find somebody that speaks Japanese to translate for us because there might have been a mistake in the trans, because after what you said it's kind of confusing.

Silhouette
January 28, 2007, 10:14 AM
I am starting to think it will most likely turn out to be how you and ttx saw it ...but it's better to make sure :P

baboysai
January 28, 2007, 10:34 AM
I think Byakuya meant The 13th squad vice captain, Kaien. Not Isshin. (Er, Isshin and Ichigo don't look alike do they?)

kadodo
January 28, 2007, 02:09 PM
I see that everybody is thinking Ukitake was thinking about Kaien not Isshin.

Anyway, what I'm wondering right now is what happened twenty years ago? Was Uruhara on earth for 20 years? How come Isshin has not use his powers for 20 years?

sahugani
January 28, 2007, 02:56 PM
actually didn't Urahara and Yoruichi leave Soul Society 100 yrs ago. I'm pretty sure that whatever event occurred 20 yrs ago primarily involved Isshin and Ryuuken while Urahara was a sideline observer and facilitator similar to how he is now with the whole real world team now. What that event is we can only speculate. all we know is that as a result Ryuuken lost intrest in his Quincy powers and Urahara sealed Isshin's shinigami powers.

and about Ukitake/Byakuya...Byakuya was originally a student of Ukitake and that is the reason he listens to him. It makes me believe that all Kuchiki house members traditionally go into the 13th squad. and the person Ukitake was thinking about was Shiba Kaien

kadodo
January 28, 2007, 03:44 PM
actually didn't Urahara and Yoruichi leave Soul Society 100 yrs ago. I'm pretty sure that whatever event occurred 20 yrs ago primarily involved Isshin and Ryuuken while Urahara was a sideline observer and facilitator similar to how he is now with the whole real world team now. What that event is we can only speculate. all we know is that as a result Ryuuken lost intrest in his Quincy powers and Urahara sealed Isshin's shinigami powers.

and about Ukitake/Byakuya...Byakuya was originally a student of Ukitake and that is the reason he listens to him. It makes me believe that all Kuchiki house members traditionally go into the 13th squad. and the person Ukitake was thinking about was Shiba Kaien


If I assume that your theory is right about Urahara sealing Isshin's powers what was the reasing for him doing so. Also Isshin got his powers back after 20 years. Did Urahara unseal it?

sahugani
January 28, 2007, 04:22 PM
If I assume that your theory is right about Urahara sealing Isshin's powers what was the reasing for him doing so. Also Isshin got his powers back after 20 years. Did Urahara unseal it?


dont know. i based Urahara sealing Isshin's powers on the fact that he thought he might be blamed if Isshin's powers weakened. as for the reasoning behind why the powers were sealed, your guess is as good as mine, but we'll find out eventually

baboysai
January 28, 2007, 08:49 PM
i based Urahara sealing Isshin's powers on the fact that he thought he might be blamed if Isshin's powers weakened.

huh? when was this mentioned? what particular line?
Anyway, if Urahara sealed Isshin's powers, it was not shown that he unsealed it anytime before. Isshin just showed up, already a shinigami. And Urahara appeared AFTERWARDS. I think the reason for Isshin's inactivity for 20 years is something else.

sahugani
January 28, 2007, 10:09 PM
huh? when was this mentioned? what particular line?
Anyway, if Urahara sealed Isshin's powers, it was not shown that he unsealed it anytime before. Isshin just showed up, already a shinigami. And Urahara appeared AFTERWARDS. I think the reason for Isshin's inactivity for 20 years is something else.


ch 188 pg 6. It implies he had something to do with the sealing of Isshin's powers, but Isshin used some method to unseal them on his own. i never said anything about Urahara unsealing Isshin's powers. the context of their conversation is proof against that.

ttxdragon
January 28, 2007, 10:24 PM
just to add my 2 cents on the whole sealing-stuff:
urahara SEALING isshins powers isn't exactly what i think is in uraharas possibilities if it is unsealable...
the only way we know that shinigami-powers can be sealed away is by destroying the soul chain (i think it was that one of the both) and the only person to recover from that is ichigo, because he had just "borrowed" his powers from rukia.

thus i think urahara talks about the gigai that isshin has been obviously using. knowing urahara's twisted mind he just might have talked about bad manufacturing of the gigai....

if isshin has been able to unseal himself, then it is most likely that he couldve done it anytime and he just waited because he didn't necessarily want to unseal his powers. that leads to think that it wouldn't have needed some complicated sealing to keep him from using his powers, it would've been effort in vain if he could always break it... a gigai would've been enough to hide his "shinigami being" from his family :P

sahugani
January 28, 2007, 10:57 PM
i think sealing was a bad word for me to use. i meant it more as a general explanation for Isshin's loss of powers 20 yrs ago (this could be actual sealing, a gigai, etc). from Urahara and Ryuuken's reactions, he definately lost his powers rather than simply hiding them. i am pretty sure that his loss of power was at least partially intentional or accepted by him. since he's regained his powers now without Urahara's help, he could have done that at any time, but didn't. this is probably because he wanted to live a normal life with his family. now, the circumstances of his and Ryuuken's return (rise of arrancar) make me believe that some aspect of the current events are a result or remanant of their past and Isshin choe now so that he could finish what he started.

ttxdragon
January 29, 2007, 04:20 AM
he definately lost his powers rather than simply hiding them.

i'm pretty sure the translation i read said something along the lines of him abandoning his powers, which doesn't qualify as "lost" by all means ^^

sahugani
January 29, 2007, 04:52 AM
ok apparently i need a thesaurus but you get what i'm saying

ttxdragon
January 29, 2007, 04:56 AM
ok apparently i need a thesaurus but you get what i'm saying

a gigai really is not losing powers, that's what i mean. he may have had them all along, just not wanted to use them.
it's a bit different from losing/sealing/giving up powers....

ok, we differ in opinions here and we can't say much for sure... so i will for my part leave it at that now...

baboysai
January 29, 2007, 10:15 AM
ok I forgot all about the gigai, apparently. Now I get what you mean.

W1nTry
January 29, 2007, 10:57 AM
Ok there are alot of posts here.. too many to read with given time. So in case I repeat anyone else's theory, my bad. Otherwise, by reading through some of the posts I have a take on this:

For a Shinigami to have a child in the real world? he would have to be human no or at least close to? If I recall correctly, isn't the result of being the container of the hougyouku that the soul+gegai becomes a normal human? Perhaps it was a plot developed by Isshin and Urahara to rid SS of the Hyougku. Isshin and Urahara were friends in SS (both being captain class) and were as such peers. Perhaps Urahara revealed what he had create to Isshin and they both decided that it had to be destroyed discretely as its too powerful to keep (I think this is backed up by the fact that they both conversed on the power that the hougyouku truly has, thus leading me to believe that they BOTH knew about it, whereas MOST of SS didn't know about it. Thus Isshin took the role of becoming the container for the hougyouku thus his power began to diminish as it did with Rukia. Somewhere along the lines of leaving SS and becoming the container for the hyougku he met and fell in love with Ichigo's mom and they conceived Ichigo. After her death he gave the Hyougku back to Urahara becuase he was unable to protect her due to the diminishing effects on his powers by the hougyouku (also seems to fit in well as Urahara asks him if he blames him for his lack of power). And well the rest as they say is History. Plausible? I think so.

Oh and it also accounts for Ichigo's shinigami/hollow powers :p I mean, hey if he was conceived by a shinigami (turning human) containing the hougyouku which gives Shinigami Hollow powers... then the result of this would be a human that has both... at least it opens up the possibility of the child having these attributes.

As for any relation to Ishida's dad... i've not seen anything in the anime so far so i'm not sure where ppl get this from... I guess i'll see soon enough.

ttxdragon
January 29, 2007, 11:00 AM
it's a nice theory, but it has one hole:
it is said that the gigai is the thing that drained her of her shinigami powers.
the gigai is the tool to make a soul human if it is already weakened.
the hougyouku sealing method has nothing to do with that ^^

W1nTry
January 29, 2007, 11:03 AM
Hmm I see... well if thats the case, my theory should still hold. To exist in the human world and effectively disappear, Isshin would have to lead a 'normal' human life. Thus needing a gigai. So he was using the gigai and was the container for the hougyouku. Its not so much a hole as a slight detour XD

kadodo
January 29, 2007, 11:54 AM
If Isshin was protecting the hougyouku this whole time and he abandoned it. That means that Urahara put the hougyouku inside Rukia while she was in the human world or was it sometime before that?

baboysai
January 29, 2007, 12:15 PM
Yeah I think W1nTry's theory is plausible... haven't thought of that...

sahugani
January 29, 2007, 12:24 PM
i also agree with the use of the power-draining gigai, but the hougyouku was sealed in Rukia's soul, not the gigai she was using, so Urahara probably just made multiple gigais like this. he gave one to Isshin so he could live a normal life and later found a way to regain his power.

W1nTry
January 29, 2007, 02:36 PM
Wasn't the hougyouku placed in Rukia when Urahara healed her wounds? after the very first encouter with Ichigo? If I recall correctly thats how it happened. So if that be the case i'll just modify my theory a lil and say that Isshin's soul prolly first carried it out of soul society then the rest of my theory remains as is. Wasn't the special gigai made to mask the hougyouku's reatsu?

sahugani
January 29, 2007, 02:49 PM
no i'm certain that it was within Rukia before she met Ichigo. all Urahara did at that time was give her the gigai. from the method Aizen used to extract the hougyouku from Rukia, dont you think she would have noticed Urahara putting it inside of her. Also, Aizen said that by the time he found out that it was within Rukia she had already left.

Cyven
January 30, 2007, 04:12 AM
I'm not sure, but either Rukia's gigai, or the hougyoku, or a reaction between the two caused her lost powers to stay that way. meaning that if Isshin had indeed been carrying the hougyouku, while in a gigai, he'd have to have gradually been weakening as well. Furthermore, since it's been established that Urahara placed the hougyoku inside of Rukia when she was still a baby/young infant, and given that Rukia is over 100 years old, it's chronologically impossible for Isshin to have carried the hougyoku at any point. Otherwise it'd have to be put in Rukia first, then Isshin, then Rukia again.

Isshin must have turned to Urahara for a non-traceable high quality gigai, to live safely on earth. I understand he would want to live a happy life with Ichigo's mother (no kids back then yet), but that alone wouldn't be enough reason for Isshin to "go underground" (by SS standards).

I think he was aware of something involving Ichigo's mother and/or Ichigo himself. Something so important he'd have to leave Soul Society and make sure nobody from there would be able to find him again. Yoruichi and Urahara must have chosen to live near them to offer protection if need be.

Maybe Aizen, Gin and Tousen had already begun making their move at this time, forcing Isshin to leave SS permanently, because it wouldn't be safe anymore.

Methinks Ichigo's mother and/or Ichigo himself have something to do with the royal family.

baboysai
January 30, 2007, 10:55 AM
Furthermore, since it's been established that Urahara placed the hougyoku inside of Rukia when she was still a baby/young infant,

wait... wasn't it actually mentioned that Urahara gave Rukia the gigai when she was about to die in giving Ichigo shinigami powers? Since when was it stated that Urahara placed the hougyoku in Rukia when she was a baby???

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 11:29 AM
the point that was being made was that the hougyoku was placed in Rukia far before Urahara gave her the gigai. as an infant is logical as it was a period before she could reate memories and in which she lacked a guardian

Cyven
January 30, 2007, 11:29 AM
I thought it was mentioned by Aizen...?

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 11:37 AM
it was mentioned by Aizen that she had it in her before she left, but not actually stated when it happened. that is found by using simple logic of availability

baboysai
January 30, 2007, 11:39 AM
It was mentioned that Urahara had a mysterious agenda in giving Rukia a gigai. He volunteered to give her one because the gigai was in it, right? wasn't there a flashback scene in Rukia's mind, realizing when it actually happened? Or was it Aizen who narrated this, and the scene flashbacked anyway. When Urahara personally came to Rukia to lend her a gigai, and he had a different smirk about him.

kadodo
January 30, 2007, 11:42 AM
It's true that UraHara put the hugyouku inside rulia before she gave Ichigo her powers. The question is why is it that he chose Rukia. Did Urahara see something special in her? What made him chose her?

baboysai
January 30, 2007, 11:47 AM
yeah it was all about availability I guess. She just happened to be there then. Right?

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 11:51 AM
this is not confirmed but derived only from logical thought

after Urahara realized that the hougyoku could not be destroyed and realized that it had to be sealed in a person's soul, he found an infant Rukia in Rukongai. because she was abandoned bt Hisana and she was too young to speak for herself, there was no one to object to her being the vessel to hide it. Urahara had no other choice because he still had to keep knowledge of the item itself a secret

kadodo
January 30, 2007, 11:54 AM
this is not confirmed but derived only from logical thought

after Urahara realized that the hougyoku could not be destroyed and realized that it had to be sealed in a person's soul, he found an infant Rukia in Rukongai. because she was abandoned bt Hisana and she was too young to speak for herself, there was no one to object to her being the vessel to hide it. Urahara had no other choice because he still had to keep knowledge of the item itself a secret

Are you saying that Urahara put the hygyouku inside of her before she even became a shinimagi?

baboysai
January 30, 2007, 11:55 AM
was it shown in the manga that Urahara put it in her during Rokungai? Coz I'm pretty sure it wasn't shown in the anime...

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 11:58 AM
thats why i said i based this completely on logic. he could not have put it in her after she became a shinigami because he was banished from Soul Society more than 50 yrs prior

baboysai
January 30, 2007, 12:04 PM
I think it was pretty clearly shown he put it when Rukia was patrolling in Ichigo's town... much more recent than said speculations... [br]Posted on: January 30, 2007, 12:04:14 PM_________________________________________________during which, he didn't need to be in SS.

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 12:12 PM
except that she had it within her before she left as confirmed by Aizen and the logic that Urahara would have then had the hougyoku just lying around the shop until Rukia came to the real world, which we know Urahara's not dumb enought to do

kadodo
January 30, 2007, 12:14 PM
thats why i said i based this completely on logic. he could not have put it in her after she became a shinigami because he was banished from Soul Society more than 50 yrs prior

If Urahara was banished from Soul Society between 50-100 years ago. And Rukia is about 100 years old, so I'm guessing it had to be when Rukia was still young. The only thing is how did Aizen find ou that Urahara put it inside of her. Did he go through Urahara's files or something?

W1nTry
January 30, 2007, 12:32 PM
I am inclined towards baboysai and don't recall it ever being mentioned that Rukia had the hugyoukubefore she left soul society. Can anyone show proof of this? manga or otherwise? I am however inclined to believe it was placed when she obtained the gigai from Urahara, logically to me that makes sense. As for pointing out that she would have noticed, that too imho is speculation. It's Urahara we're talking about here, I am sure its well within his capabilities to do as such and her not notice. Also its only after receiving that gigai from Urahara that her powers began to diminish. So I say again, does anyone have proof? a picture is worth a thousand words they say.

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 12:42 PM
Well Aizen says by the time he realized that hougyoku was in Rukia, she had already disappeared in the real world. while that line is only implying, the damning proof comes from just looking at the situation logically.

Urahara created the hougyoku when he was a captain. he realized that it could not be destroyed and had to implant it in a soul. do you really think he'd just keep the hougyoku lying around for 100 or so years until rukia came and he could implant it in her? especially when right around the time he realized it had to be sealed there was a perfect window of opportunity to implant it in the soul of an abandoned child Rukia whom he had no idea would become a person who anyone would take notice of

W1nTry
January 30, 2007, 01:10 PM
The flaw with that logic as I see it is 2 things:
1. Leaving such a powerful item in an ABANDONED child would be foolish, as the life expectancy of that child is unknown and we have no idea what would happen to the hugyouku should the soul containing it perish (which is weird as aren't they already dead? how did her older sis die anyways?) I digress. It would be more likely he planted it in Rukia once she became a Shinigami or even moreso when she was taken in by the noble family as it should be safe (meaning no one interfering with her)

2. Why would Urahara leave such a powerful item in SS when he's in the real world? he hid it from SS, so leave it in a random child in SS? what sense would that make? wouldn't he more likely keep it within his 'reach'?

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 01:31 PM
1. as you said, they are already dead and the powerless dont need food in Soul Society and as long as she was in that safe district of Rukongai, the life expectancy issue doesn't really apply. plus by putting it in an abandoned child, there is no one who would notice if anything were to happen to her. It's very likely that Urahara has known Aizen's intentions and power for some time now (the vaizard did so why not Urahara) and so he knew that any kind of protection (like the Kuchiki family) would be useless. if one knows that any defense is worthless, the best option is to put it where the enemy cant find it. putting it in a shinigami who was adopted by a noble family puts her under scrutiny and the hougyoku would be easier to find. an abandoned child would be far less noticable and he couldn't predict Rukia's future

2. he knows that anyone who learns of hogyoku would start searching by looking at him. if he knows that he can't defend it himself, its best to keep it hidden away from him

W1nTry
January 30, 2007, 01:36 PM
Leaving the hogyoku in a defenseless child on the streets makes no sense. I would have to believe that anything and EVERYTHING would have been attracted to the power of the hogyoku especially a hollow/vizard/etc. I say this as you say the child dying is of little consequence. In fact its of the utmost consequence. Should rukia have died and the hogyoku been left behind, what then? you really think something like that would go unnoticed?. I agree with if you can't defend it, hide it, I just don't agree with your logic of hiding it in an abondoned child. Doesn't hold water very well imho.

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 01:42 PM
except remember that for the hougyoku to be seperated from the soul at death, the soul would have had to be vaporized which is why Aizen decided to use Soukyoku. if that was not the case, Aizen could have just killed herand picked it up. it is likely that upon a normal death of a soul, either the hougyoku dies along with the infused soul or it is passed on to whatever human in the real world the soul is reincarnated into

W1nTry
January 30, 2007, 01:51 PM
I still see that as too risky. If it was a simple matter of destroying it by putting it into a soul and destroying the soul then a modified soul may have sufficed. I suspect it would have remained or as you put it, gone into another human soul. Either way that a very large gamble. Not one I suspect Urahara would have made given the gravity of it falling into the wrong hands.

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 02:01 PM
ok. i'll attack this issue from a different angle. if he didn't put in Rukia when he was still in Soul Society, where would he keep it for 100 or so years? If the only 2 methods of extracting it from a soul are a method he himself created and using a power equal to Soukyoku, wouldn't a normal soul with basically no chance of undergoing that execution be better than a shinigami who has just broken the law?

W1nTry
January 30, 2007, 02:38 PM
Based on your theory, she would not have broken the law yet, so I don't see how that's relevant. Also we're not sure of when Urahara figured out how to destroy the hogyoku or how to release it from a soul. So the actual age of Rukia at the time of its implant is still up for grabs at BEST. Infant however seems the most unlikely.

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 02:51 PM
Rukia did break the law when she transferred her powers to Ichigo. it was just a matter of time before the length of her stay became an issue and the first crime was noticed. and if Rukia did get implanted at that time then Urahara is an idiot (which we know he's not) because by then Rukia was a shinigami on SS's radar, adopted into a prominant family, and had just broke the law. THAT is a risky bet because soul society would definately come after her. as an infant though, she had no connections and thus he would no make a big stir putting it in her. since rukia only came to the real world reecently and he cannot enter Soul Society, he had to have sealed it while he was still a captain and that timing corresponds best to her infancy. i'm not saying this age definitively, but as a best guess using the information at hand

ttxdragon
January 30, 2007, 02:55 PM
i don't want to take away everybodies stuff for discussing, but when rukia got the hougyouku implanted doesn't in any way relate to isshin, ryuuken and uraharas relationship, now does it?
the point that isshin didn't have the hougyouku in him is cleared and thus this part of the topic should be put into the archives...

if anybody wants to start a theory about it -- go ahead, but please keep this thread on the relationship of the mans in the thread-title.... thank you.

sahugani
January 30, 2007, 03:03 PM
got a point and sorry we got carried away

Sarmad
February 09, 2007, 05:23 AM
Well, as i know the manga, there will be a surprisingly ingenious story behind the relationship between the three old men and their connection to Soul Society.

So, I can't really guess what happened before they left Soul Society or rather stopped being actively involved with things, though we can't really say that either. ^^
Anyway, we've got some hints and tiny bits of information... like when Ulqiorra said that there are only 3 people in the "real world" that actually stand a chance against them. He most likely meant Urahara, Yoruichi and Ichigo. Hence, Ichigo's dad and Ishida's dad have been clearly left out. I doubt that they're too weak for an Arrancar and i believe that both of them played an important role in the past, so there must be another explanation for it.

I assume that they're bevlieved to be dead. :amuse

Cyven
February 09, 2007, 07:41 AM
Well, as i know the manga, there will be a surprisingly ingenious story behind the relationship between the three old men and their connection to Soul Society.

So, I can't really guess what happened before they left Soul Society or rather stopped being actively involved with things, though we can't really say that either. ^^
Anyway, we've got some hints and tiny bits of information... like when Ulqiorra said that there are only 3 people in the "real world" that actually stand a chance against them. He most likely meant Urahara, Yoruichi and Ichigo. Hence, Ichigo's dad and Ishida's dad have been clearly left out. I doubt that they're too weak for an Arrancar and i believe that both of them played an important role in the past, so there must be another explanation for it.

I assume that they're bevlieved to be dead. :amuse



Ahh but consider this: Ulquiorra said this after Ryuuken and Isshin destroyed Grand Fisher and that other Arrancer. Meaning there is a possibility this battle was documented by Aizen's forces. It could be that Ulquiorra referred to Urahara, Isshin and Ryuuken, possibly assuming Yoruichi wasn't around.

Not saying you're wrong, just offering a different possibility ;)

baboysai
February 09, 2007, 08:17 AM
However I agree with Sarmad more. I think that it was Yoroichi and Urahara were the ones meant by Ulqiorra.

Sarmad
February 09, 2007, 11:11 AM
Ulquiorra must've had some infor


Ahh but consider this: Ulquiorra said this after Ryuuken and Isshin destroyed Grand Fisher and that other Arrancer. Meaning there is a possibility this battle was documented by Aizen's forces. It could be that Ulquiorra referred to Urahara, Isshin and Ryuuken, possibly assuming Yoruichi wasn't around.

Not saying you're wrong, just offering a different possibility ;)


Hmm, i think that Ulquiorra's knowledge about the real world is based on information Aizen gave him about the real world .. and Aizen is obviously aware of Yoruichi's, Urahara's and Ichigo's abilities or rather of their potential to be a threat for him. That's why i take it as very unlikely that Ulquiorra meant the three person you named. But your suggestion could be right nonetheless. :amuse

_________________________________________________

I really want to see more of the two daddys and Urahara! And i was thinking that they might appear in the HM arc. Ichigo and the rest are most likely (well they are) not strong enough to bring back Inoue. So maybe they'll get some help. That's when the daddys and Urahara show up or rather reveal themselves and rescue everybody. (Cause I think that each of 'em is as strong as Aizen) ;)



However I agree with Sarmad more. I think that it was Yoroichi and Urahara were the ones meant by Ulqiorra.


:beer

pelias
February 09, 2007, 11:33 PM
i don´t think anyone could possibly escape from aizen´s tecnique except having much more power than he does, not only being as strong as

delapaz13
February 10, 2007, 02:56 AM
my theory is this: urahara's vice captain is tessai tsukabishi (level 99 binding spell without difficulty)Isshin is a captain possibly 5th?his vice captain was aizen (which makes him really old)before even gin became a lieutenant or before shihouin yoruichi left soul society.

baboysai
February 10, 2007, 10:37 AM
I think that Isshin was 6th division. Because Aizen is quite old, so he hasn't been replaced for long. However, Byakuya's relatively "younger". I mean, Rukia can remember that. So who was captain before Byakuya? That's why Isshin's my bet.

alekosss_kenpachi
February 10, 2007, 01:03 PM
I dont remember where i saw that but it was some months ago..Isshin may have been some kind of Royal guard of the OU-KEN or smth like that!

sahugani
February 10, 2007, 06:49 PM
I think that Isshin was 6th division. Because Aizen is quite old, so he hasn't been replaced for long. However, Byakuya's relatively "younger". I mean, Rukia can remember that. So who was captain before Byakuya? That's why Isshin's my bet.


well i'm not saying that this has anthing to do with it because i still need more info before i can theorize, but Gin became a captain at the same time as Byakuya, so you can't use timing to determine that as he'd be just as likely the 3rd division captian

deathshadow25
February 11, 2007, 02:09 AM
I think it's easy to determine which division he belongs too just rememer his mannerisms and match it up with the divisione he acts alot like. you know Kenpchi's division fight until they die, Byakaya's division acts snooty and the 4th division anre primary healers.

Cyven
February 11, 2007, 01:20 PM
I think it's easy to determine which division he belongs too just rememer his mannerisms and match it up with the divisione he acts alot like. you know Kenpchi's division fight until they die, Byakaya's division acts snooty and the 4th division anre primary healers.


only Byakuya acts snooty, Renji was just being arrogant (and he's a former 11th squad member), so judging an entire squad just by their captain might be unwise.

If Isshin was a captain we can rule out the following squads:
1st, 2nd, 4th 8th, 12th, 13th.

This leaves us with 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th squad...

Assuming Isshin was still around when Aizen was made captain of the 5th squad, that'd rule out his squad, but make 3rd squad a possibility, by this time Byakuya might've been already made captain of 6th squad, while Kenpachi could've been captain of 11th squad by now...

eh, if anyone has any other ideas... XD;

deathshadow25
February 11, 2007, 01:32 PM
I think Urahara is cool but what is his connection with Ryuuken do you think they had the same think going on like

Urahara- Rukia
Isshin- Ichigo
Uryuu- Ryuuken

do you think history is repeating itself?!?!?!

sahugani
February 11, 2007, 01:43 PM
well as i said before, Gin was made captain at the same time as Byakuya, so any reasons based on timing have to link the 3rd and 6th divisions. but in my view, timing reasons make it highly unlikely that he was a captain while the outfit makes me think he was, so i really need more info before i can make an educated guess. for now though i'll explain my timing reason. Urahara said that Isshin left the form of a shinigami 20 yrs before the present storyline and that matches up well with Ryuuken as he is a regular human who ages, so their adventure couldn't be more than 20 years ago. then consider how big a deal it was for Urahara and Yorouichi to leave Soul Society 100 year prior to the present. If Isshin left around the time of his adventure with Ryuuken, i think it would cause a bigger stir in Soul Society. besides that, if he had left Soul Society many years prior (it would have had to be much longer than 100 years or he'd be mentioned along with Urahara and Yorouichi) to that and just stuck around the material world, then that would mean that he had just been existing there as a shinigami all that time so that he wouldn't be as aged as he is now. i simply have a hard time believing that he'd just sit idle for that long.

Cyven
February 11, 2007, 05:57 PM
a possibility would be 10th squad?

Hitsugaya is still quite young and though shinigami have longer lifespans, he looks even younger than Rukia, meaning his age might be 100 or less, we also know he went to the academy after Hinamori did (and when Hinamori went, Aizen and Gin were still both in 5th squad) , and even if he's a genius it'd still have taken him some years to become a captain?

Besides, Kira, Renji and Hinamori haven't aged much since they went to the academy meaning their time there can't be more than a few decades ago. Meaning there's an ample window of time for Isshin to have been captain and then going away.

cielorossas
February 17, 2007, 01:54 AM
i think that isshin could be from the 10th squad.. maybe the fact that what he did was again very controversial, there was probably a hush-hush around his leaving so as not to cause any stir in SS. that is why rukia did not have any knowledge of isshin being a shinigami.

and probably the name kurosaki isshin was not even his real name in SS.

Kazu-kun
February 19, 2007, 04:09 AM
i think that isshin could be from the 10th squad.. maybe the fact that what he did was again very controversial, there was probably a hush-hush around his leaving so as not to cause any stir in SS. that is why rukia did not have any knowledge of isshin being a shinigami.

and probably the name kurosaki isshin was not even his real name in SS.

This kinda supports my Isshin is original the head Shiba Clan.

Sarmad
February 19, 2007, 01:17 PM
Woah, plus Ichigo resembles Kaien.

Lohnt
February 19, 2007, 01:35 PM
I have a theory I've been playing around with recently (since the anime got back from the fillers).

Shinji Hirako is Uruhara's son.

Thank you for reading.

deathshadow25
February 19, 2007, 05:02 PM
I have a theory I've been playing around with recently (since the anime got back from the fillers).

Shinji Hirako is Uruhara's son.

Thank you for reading.


I guess he could be a love child....maybe but it sounds a little bit off

Kyuubi685
February 20, 2007, 02:14 AM
well........as we all know, urahara was the captain of the 12th squad before he got banished for the creation of the houyoku and the gigai that leeches shinigami powers.

now isshin, i believe he used to be a captain of another squad and he and urahara were like kyouraku and ukitake, Bests friends. even though isshin may have never thought that urahara would go so far into his experiments, i'm sure that he was something like that.

urahara eventually was then found out by SS of his creations, which led to yoruichiand him leaving to live in the real world.
Isshin finds out about it and decides he must leave too, in support of urahara and against SS rules. however, before he got to leave, he was stopped by the other captains of the current gotei 13. he explains his reasons, they all try to convince him to stay but he made up his mind and everything already. so the leader at that time, 1st squad captain, i'm guessing yamamoto, orders for him to die; they get in a fight and during the fight, he gets his captains cloak ripped. eventually though, he was able to fend them off and escape to the real world.

once in the real world, he mets ryuuken, the current quincy in town, while fending off hollows or other shinigami sent. (who knows) either way they met pretty much the same way ishida and ichigo met.

isshin decides to find urahara and tell him his reasons for leaving SS and asks for one last favour, and that was the gigai. he tells urahara that he has lost confidence and respect for him. leaves and never sees him again, well at least for a while.

ryuuken and urahara met probably through fighting one another and ryuuken losing to him. but again they never got a long so meh.

the only question i have is whether or not ichigo's mom was a shinigami too. or was she a human who could see spirits like tatsuki, a person who gained no powers from coming into contact with a shinigami.

also, Aizen must have been one of the shinigami after isshin before he left if this theory is true, otherwise how would isshin know of him

baboysai
February 20, 2007, 08:16 PM
well, I haven't read anything or seen anything in the manga indicating that yoruichi and urahara left AT THE SAME TIME. It had been mentioned that yoruichi hadn't been seen for a hundred years or something. However, no time can really be defined about urahara's leaving. A lot has supposed it was to hide the hougyoku, which is probably right. So when did he start doing that? The only dead-clear clue we have is that he put it in Rukia. Although it's clear that he's been in the human world far longer than that...

aaaa I'm confused.