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THM Nindo
November 26, 2010, 10:45 AM
So, as everyone read the Bleach Hell Arc Special!?

It's available here :
http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/98980820/1

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I think it's really interesting that Kubo would reveal all this stuff right now...
Is that the way he's going?

Does he intend that Shuren guy to be the next villain?

Xerneas
November 26, 2010, 11:56 AM
There should have been a topic for this in the chapter discussion section. Anyway, it was good. Confirmed how GRC operates - people were in doubt for some reason. It activates by blood and amazingly thats only the second one we saw in the entire manga. Even then this is just a spin off. Not like Kubo ever gave Cero justice but thats the strongest one and no top Espada used it! Starrk not using any was a farce. I was skeptical before but now I'm convinced we haven't seen the last of Arrancar. Mayuri will see to that. The same way Kubo kept the strongest Shinigami moves hidden he will bring stronger Hollow moves and more GRC and Black Cero (which had better have an effect this time around as they really should).

Shuren won't be the next villain (I think). Interesting he knew all about GRC though. Also interesting that he was on the same poster with all Ichigo's previous rivals/enemies - Ishida, Renji, Ikkaku, Kenpachi, Byakuya, Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Ulquiorra and Aizen. They were all displayed in order and Shuren was above Aizen. Maybe this is like the Ashido situation and he was supposed to be a main series character but Kubo didn't have time and did a movie for him instead. I think Kubo lost an opportunity to tie up loose ends by not making a real arc out of this.

Richo
November 26, 2010, 12:57 PM
no time or he was not allowed to is a whole other subject.... Or wouldn't he know how to make a entire arc of this?
People are wishing for a hell chapter/arc since it was first introduced, personaly I already satisfied that they decided to make a movie since a arc could be overdoing it honestly.
Making a entire arc out of hell is pointless and the lore would have to be adapted to make it cannon and since its a movie it aint fully cannon. Hell isn't accesed by shinigami or hollows who dont belong there, hell runs its own organisation "similair" like the gotei 13 and central 46 so why would they need them for help?
Like all the other movies of bleach you can do anything you want without harming the manga itself and still satisfy fanbase.

kkck
November 27, 2010, 10:18 AM
I am kinda disappointed that hell was a place were souls would be as they were before though. Grants and arroniero were completely free to use their powers and move freely, I did not have anything in particular in mind when I thought of bleach hell but in turn I also did not expect what we saw. It seems hell is simply a more desolate version of SS or a hueco mundo 2.0 except that there seems to be an innate impossibility of traveling out of there. Perhaps hell was not always like that and those guys we saw simply caused an uproar and took over. I was also kinda surprised grants and arroniero went to hell at all. If I recall, people were sent to hell due to the sins they committed when they were human and the zampakuto purified sins from when someone was a hollow. Perhaps hybrids or intelligent enough hollows are also sent to hell due to the sins committed as hollows or hybrids. In any case, it would seem a zampakuto cannot purify a a hybrid at all. I am a bit confused about the hierarchy of different worlds in bleach though. Humans would seem to go to either SS or hell when they die. They could also move to HM as hollows. In turn souls can also go to hell when they die but I doubt that is the only alternative. I mean, not all souls would deserve hell outright so there has to be more to the whole thing. I remember someone saying souls flow in between the real world and SS and there is a balance to be maintained. Do good, spiritually awake souls get sent to that flow or do they have an actual heaven or whatever other world to go to? Human souls would seem to move on to that flow but it does not seem like spiritually aware souls would move straight to that flow considering we just saw two espada being sent to hell.

One thing which did surprise me is ow mobile arroniero was in his resurreccion. He moves surprisingly swiftly for his size considering the huge jump he showed.

Sollum
November 27, 2010, 11:01 AM
Wait... So Shinigami sword cleanses all sins from hollows, who then supposedly go to SS, but at this point they came to hell?

And what the heck all of them meant by saying "You are already dead", how can a soul die again?

Tho it makes sense why they didn't execute Aizen, he would manage to leave Hell anyways.

Xerneas
November 27, 2010, 11:43 AM
The way I see it is that guys like Szayel-Aporro were evil as humans already, so as Arrancar they get sent to Hell just like how a normal Hollow would be if they were evil in their past life. Its certainly not hard to imagine human Szayel-Aporro as demented as he is now. The other souls that compose them wouldn't count cause those cease to exist as people once the dominant soul takes over and the Hollow goes to Menos stage. I'd imagine someone like Starrk would go to SS since he probably wasn't wicked as a human. And Ulquiorra would simply cease to exist cause he was killed instead of purified or condemned. It would appear condemned souls retain all their abilities unlike purified ones but its not an inconsistency cause Kubo never covered this.

Tenacious Weezy
November 27, 2010, 12:01 PM
I think for the exact reason there is confusion and debate is the reason there is not and probably won't be a "Hell Arc". It adds a lot of complication to what hollows are and now arrancar and how they are "purified" and the such. Honestly the only reason Grantz and AA were shown was to just display how they are mere fodder compared to the "movie fodder". To be honest though I much rather would have preferred the 7th and 5th Espada fighting those guys.

kulash05
November 27, 2010, 02:07 PM
Wait... So Shinigami sword cleanses all sins from hollows, who then supposedly go to SS, but at this point they came to hell?

And what the heck all of them meant by saying "You are already dead", how can a soul die again?

Tho it makes sense why they didn't execute Aizen, he would manage to leave Hell anyways.

Yeah they explain way in the beginning of the serious that the swords clean you of your sins as a hollow, not a human. So if a good person becomes a hollow and starts killing, they get to go to heaven, but if a killer dies and becomes a hollow he goes to hell.
The "You are already dead" I think is either a taunt that comes up every now and then, basically saying you already lost this fight and there is no hope for you. Or it's referring to how they are in hell and are trapped, basically being dead to the real world.


Was anyone else sad that hell really just looked like HM. I mean it was like a lot of sand for as far as the eyes could see. Maybe i missed something or the movie will change it up.

Sollum
November 27, 2010, 02:33 PM
Yeah, i kinda forgot that that killer dude at the beginning went to hell after killed as hollow... :(

Nah, hell looks definitely different, the sand is burning and sky is red/yellow, and mountains are also half red... its totally different from HM...

Googlez_kun
November 27, 2010, 04:10 PM
This chapter felt kinda pointless to be honest.It was just two Arrancars coming to hell and getting defeated....OP's movie chapter at least added something to the main plot and the movie plot.The only relevant page was the last one,where we saw that the villain wants to escape hell and needs Ichigonator's power for it.Ah,whatever,as long as the movie is good i don't mind.

kulash05
November 27, 2010, 06:54 PM
Is this the only chapter they are going to have for the hell sneak preview?
Also, maybe this was a hint that other arrancars will be making an appearance in the movie.

Richo
November 27, 2010, 10:22 PM
I am kinda disappointed that hell was a place were souls would be as they were before though. Grants and arroniero were completely free to use their powers and move freely, I did not have anything in particular in mind when I thought of bleach hell but in turn I also did not expect what we saw. It seems hell is simply a more desolate version of SS or a hueco mundo 2.0 except that there seems to be an innate impossibility of traveling out of there. Perhaps hell was not always like that and those guys we saw simply caused an uproar and took over. I was also kinda surprised grants and arroniero went to hell at all. If I recall, people were sent to hell due to the sins they committed when they were human and the zampakuto purified sins from when someone was a hollow. Perhaps hybrids or intelligent enough hollows are also sent to hell due to the sins committed as hollows or hybrids. In any case, it would seem a zampakuto cannot purify a a hybrid at all. I am a bit confused about the hierarchy of different worlds in bleach though. Humans would seem to go to either SS or hell when they die. They could also move to HM as hollows. In turn souls can also go to hell when they die but I doubt that is the only alternative. I mean, not all souls would deserve hell outright so there has to be more to the whole thing. I remember someone saying souls flow in between the real world and SS and there is a balance to be maintained. Do good, spiritually awake souls get sent to that flow or do they have an actual heaven or whatever other world to go to? Human souls would seem to move on to that flow but it does not seem like spiritually aware souls would move straight to that flow considering we just saw two espada being sent to

agreed, I expected something else aswell when someone went to hell, you know eternal suffering and damnation something along those lines.


Is this the only chapter they are going to have for the hell sneak preview?
Also, maybe this was a hint that other arrancars will be making an appearance in the movie.

I do not believe it to be like that. It was to show abit how Hell worked and how strong some creatures in hell are. most Arrancar/Espada can fight a captain of SS which no Hollow with exception of a Vasto Lodre should be able to. Here they shown us the 2 "weakest" Espada getting their arse kicked by some "random" inhabitant of hell, as to show us how strong the creatures in hell realy are.

The Newbie.
November 28, 2010, 03:09 AM
I want to see the different levels of hell and possibly the strongest demons. Aizen was just sent to the 8th level of hell, and regardless of which level Szayel and Arroniero landed on, there are still other 7 levels. So far we've seen in the movie how most souls are rotting in huge platforms and going crazy, I'm curious about Aizen atm. This chapter was named "Imaginary 01", so hopefully there are more canon chapters about hell, showing Barragan, Nnoitra and Aizen. Other hollows like Harribel, Starrk and Zommari seemed to have a reason to act like they did, so they were probably sent to Soul Society.
[hr]

agreed, I expected something else aswell when someone went to hell, you know eternal suffering and damnation something along those lines.



I do not believe it to be like that. It was to show abit how Hell worked and how strong some creatures in hell are. most Arrancar/Espada can fight a captain of SS which no Hollow with exception of a Vasto Lodre should be able to. Here they shown us the 2 "weakest" Espada getting their arse kicked by some "random" inhabitant of hell, as to show us how strong the creatures in hell realy are.

Well, Szayel was slightly above Renji in combat, and according to himself "He prefered to use cheap tricks and experiments because he sucked at combat". We see Renji, Ishida and even Pesche and Dondonchaka giving him a load of trouble without suffering that many injuries, and the only reason he got the upper hand was because of his resureccion and regeneration.
In Arroniero's case, well, he is a Gillian that ate weak hollows, his strongest form is arguably Kaien's body, which was a vice captain, and Rukia was giving him a bit of trouble.
To make it short, the only thing achieved by the bad guys was defeating 2 vice captain-level opponents in a 2 vs 4 match, in the trailer we see Chad fighting against the muscular guy and looks like they are all special because... They escaped from the demons or something.

Revolation
November 28, 2010, 02:33 PM
I want to see the different levels of hell and possibly the strongest demons. Aizen was just sent to the 8th level of hell, and regardless of which level Szayel and Arroniero landed on, there are still other 7 levels. So far we've seen in the movie how most souls are rotting in huge platforms and going crazy, I'm curious about Aizen atm. This chapter was named "Imaginary 01", so hopefully there are more canon chapters about hell, showing Barragan, Nnoitra and Aizen. Other hollows like Harribel, Starrk and Zommari seemed to have a reason to act like they did, so they were probably sent to Soul Society.
<hr noshade size="1">


not to mention there could be more levels than the 8th level.

also, why would all the arrancars go to hell? whatever happened to the gate opening up and taking them to hell like with the hollow named shrieker

wouldn't some arrancar go to SS if they got killed with a zanpaktou?

this also goes back to my question as to why some arrancars and hollows turn to dust and dissapear and how some don't get shown dissapearing(they just fall on the ground or something)

only arrancars still alive that we know of are, grimjow, nel, pesche, dondochakka and bawabawa(the worm thing that is actually a hollow) and one of the arrancar twins(loly or menoly i forgot which one, but uryuu saved one of them from falling with his arrow as shown in the volume sketches)

and i'm just going to say yammi killed rudobon

theres also the issue with syazel's closet and what was in there.

kulash05
November 28, 2010, 10:32 PM
I want to see the different levels of hell and possibly the strongest demons. Aizen was just sent to the 8th level of hell
<hr noshade size="1">




Aizen wasn't sent to hell. He was locked in some prison in soul society. In fact they said something about him not being able to be killed. Called him immortal.
[hr]

This chapter was named "Imaginary 01", so hopefully there are more canon chapters about hell, showing Barragan, Nnoitra and Aizen.

Yes, i hope there are more because as an American, I won't get to see this movie for a very long time. It's out in December but that's only Japanese movie theaters. I have to wait for DVD and then subbed by someone.

Nieuwsgierig
November 29, 2010, 02:52 AM
also, why would all the arrancars go to hell? whatever happened to the gate opening up and taking them to hell like with the hollow named shrieker

wouldn't some arrancar go to SS if they got killed with a zanpaktou?

this also goes back to my question as to why some arrancars and hollows turn to dust and dissapear and how some don't get shown dissapearing(they just fall on the ground or something)

only arrancars still alive that we know of are, grimjow, nel, pesche, dondochakka and bawabawa(the worm thing that is actually a hollow) and one of the arrancar twins(loly or menoly i forgot which one, but uryuu saved one of them from falling with his arrow as shown in the volume sketches)

and i'm just going to say yammi killed rudobon

theres also the issue with syazel's closet and what was in there.The evil ones get sent to Hell, the other ones get purified and sent to SS. Apollo in Hell, Ulqi and Stark in SS. The ones that disintegrated are dead, the ones who fell to the ground are dying and will disappear later. We don't know what happened to Nell or Grimmjow.

Tenacious Weezy
November 29, 2010, 09:49 AM
Ulqy faded into nothingness. He wasn't killed by a Shinigami. It's also hard to know who was evil before they were hollows with the exception of AA and Grantz. Any which way the Hell Arc is strictly for the movies and IMO it should stay there.

kkck
November 29, 2010, 10:48 AM
Are there any other espada appearing during the movie? I could see a few other espada being in hell and taking a part here. I am not sure about whether arrancar would be purified with a zampakuto though. Arrancar are already half shinigami and have their intellect (at least the more evolved arrancar do) so they are pretty much aware of what they are doing. Purification through a zampakuto should regress them to human souls, yet them already being half shinigami should kinda beat the purpose of that.

conn-man
November 29, 2010, 12:19 PM
All this arguing about why the arrancar would be in hell, zanpakuto purification, etc, I feel like it can be explained. We found out how hell works for hollows in the beginning with shreiker. if the hollow was evil in its previous life as a human, it goes to hell, if it was ok then it goes to SS.

So if an arrancar which was created from a menos which is made from thousands of hollows was killed/purified by a zan, that body should be split into all the hollow souls that it was comprised of and then have those souls rightfully placed in hell or SS based on their human life actions. After this happens the existence of the arrancar body is gone and all that would remain is the original personality in the form of the single hollow that gained control of the menos body during its evolution. Then that main soul, that gave the arrancar its personality, along with all the other hollow souls that made up the menos is what would go to hell or SS, not the entire body.

This makes the most sense to me, which is why I don't think we should take the hell chapter as canon(except for the gran rey cero thing, that seems safe).

-Ken-
November 29, 2010, 03:15 PM
Well, I thought hell are for those that are evil in life, not during their as a hollow? Their sins is purified by the shinigami anyways. It could just be that only Espada no 8 and 9 are sin in their human life, that's all.

Zan2pacto
November 29, 2010, 06:03 PM
not to mention there could be more levels than the 8th level.

also, why would all the arrancars go to hell? whatever happened to the gate opening up and taking them to hell like with the hollow named shrieker

wouldn't some arrancar go to SS if they got killed with a zanpaktou?

this also goes back to my question as to why some arrancars and hollows turn to dust and dissapear and how some don't get shown dissapearing(they just fall on the ground or something)

only arrancars still alive that we know of are, grimjow, nel, pesche, dondochakka and bawabawa(the worm thing that is actually a hollow) and one of the arrancar twins(loly or menoly i forgot which one, but uryuu saved one of them from falling with his arrow as shown in the volume sketches)

and i'm just going to say yammi killed rudobon

theres also the issue with syazel's closet and what was in there.

did i miss something? how do we know GJ and nel are alive?

kulash05
November 29, 2010, 06:13 PM
did i miss something? how do we know GJ and nel are alive?

Well a lot of people have just decided to believe GJ is alive (even though the proof is kind of weak), but we know Nel is alive because Ichigo had Orihime heal her during Kenpachi/NNorita fight, and then there were some side comics that showed her being alive.

Nieuwsgierig
November 30, 2010, 05:38 AM
Well, I thought hell are for those that are evil in life, not during their as a hollow? Their sins is purified by the shinigami anyways. It could just be that only Espada no 8 and 9 are sin in their human life, that's all.

Also note that they were actually doing evil stuff as Espada, while the others were more honorable in their fights.

kamakazi_1996
December 02, 2010, 01:53 PM
Hell could be a place where most of the vasto lorde are born and live and that guy with the lamp could be the leader btw in the anime version of the preview it shows the captain commander telling everyone not to get ichigo involved, does ichigo and his dad have something to do with hell that only the commander would know.

Richo
December 03, 2010, 02:17 PM
Hell could be a place where most of the vasto lorde are born and live and that guy with the lamp could be the leader btw in the anime version of the preview it shows the captain commander telling everyone not to get ichigo involved, does ichigo and his dad have something to do with hell that only the commander would know.

I dont know if you noticed but Hell is a prison where no one has ever escaped untill recently the first sinner ever to escape from hell. Vasto lodre are Menos class thus hollow and no sinner of hell.
We have yet to discover anything about the sinners of hell, as it was shown in the anime/manga it suggested that most sinners of hell regress back to their original "human" form or atleast partialy and are chained. The chain seems to be symbolic to show how bad they have sinned during their stay at earth as a human, what I find odd is that the 2 espada retained their original Arrancar form and powers rather then becoming the human soul the once were (remember that only 1 soul is fully dominant within a hollow, that others scream and fight for dominance is a possibility although not confirmed).
What we have seen untill now may suggest that sinners of hell are able to develop powers of their own unique like Chad, inou or similair to quincy or retain their past powers due to them being to powerfull to lose their powers during the transportation to hell. Best way to define these creatures is likely to call them demons as popular in most religions....
I am curious what kind of theme Kubo has thought of to befit hell (Shinigami is themed after ancient japan, Bounto themed German Arrancar are themed after Spanish culture), would Hell be themed after christians?

R3D
December 06, 2010, 01:24 AM
Hmmmm , i saw ulq fighting ichigo in the trailers but i think thats just a flashback of them fighthing in hueco mundo . =/

union98
December 07, 2010, 12:03 PM
Aren't arrancar made up of a whole bunch of different hollows so which soul goes where? And if an entire arrancar goes to hell, what happens to the other souls made up of the arrancar, I guess they technically go to hell too hunh? I don't know...weird..but I'm really looking forward to this hell arc and movie.

Eprst
February 25, 2011, 09:35 AM
So what happened to the arc? Was that chapter only a spoiler of the coming arc? or that was a whole arc?

kulash05
February 25, 2011, 10:41 AM
Aren't arrancar made up of a whole bunch of different hollows so which soul goes where? And if an entire arrancar goes to hell, what happens to the other souls made up of the arrancar, I guess they technically go to hell too hunh? I don't know...weird..but I'm really looking forward to this hell arc and movie.

I've been thinking about how the arrancar is made up of a whole bunch of hollows (just FYI, it's not just arrancar, it's any menos. Including menos grande). The way I see it is that the hollow literally eat each other, and form into one big form. Then if the form is different enough, it will be able to grow into different menos. So think of it like this, just because you ate that chicken last night doesn't mean it's personality is clucking around in your head.

kkck
February 25, 2011, 05:13 PM
So what happened to the arc? Was that chapter only a spoiler of the coming arc? or that was a whole arc?

You mean the chapter where arroniero fought grantz? That was a promotional chapter for the movie, nothing else. So far there is no such thing as a hell arc in the manga nor we have any reason to believe there will be.