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Geez
November 29, 2010, 04:34 PM
Good Evening ! Buenas tardes ! Bonsoir !

Since I couldn’t find anything on the forum about my problem, I created this thread hoping that answers will come :)

Among the mysteries of OP, the blank century seems the biggest. Thus, I’ve been naturally curious about the Gorousei and been looking for every bit of information I could get. This leads me to this page (http://www.tenmangas.com/chapter/OnePiece594/209164-2.html), and more particularly this image: http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9228/emblem.jpg

It’s the first time I see this emblem which seems to belong to them. I do reckon it has a meaning, an history, but I am not skilled at analyzing this kinda thing… could anyone help me ?

The only thing I can think about is that the first little circles, in the center, represent them. But the image is too blurry, we can’t see well what is drawn :notrust Then, the two squares holding the big circle would represent the allied nations under their control. Finally, three elements outside seem to protect the circles. What would they be ? …Weapons ?
If this emblem represents the history of Gorousei, who may have destroyed an entire kingdom, the weapons must be really powerful !

In mythology, Earth have been “divided” for three gods: Pluton (Hades) reigns over Hell, Poseidon controls the Sea and finally Zeus reigns over the Sky. And so far, we know only two ancient weapons: Pluton and Poseidon. I think there are indeed three ancient weapons, represented in this image by the protective elements. Furthermore, that would mean that Gorousei used them to protect/attack, which leads to another issue: what the hell ? :cookiestare
If they need marines and pirates to hunt other pirates, they can’t possibly have the weapons anymore. Has the Fallen Kingdom managed to seal them before vanishing ? Are the Stones Installation/destruction Instructions ?

Finally, if they did have hidden the Ancient Weapons so that Gorousei don’t find it for their own account, they must have hidden it well. Zeus is king of the skies, consequently we can assume that the third weapon may fly. Besides, when I thought about his power, a memory hit me. Enel found an army on the Moon, I’m sure he found a ship too, so that he may come to the New World. What if he ran into the third Ancient Weapon ? Knowing Zeus can manipulate Lightning Bolts, I wouldn’t be surprised if the third weapon needed electricity to function.

Am I going too far? Is there anything that can be correct ? Does Harry Potter 7 really suck ?

Aikidoka
November 30, 2010, 01:38 AM
Congrats on the catch Geez! I went back to their first appearance (here (http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-233/page016.html)) and the emblem was there way back then.

I don't know if it'll turn out to be plot-changing, but the fact that it's shown up only with the Gorousei (that we know of at least) should mean something -- with Oda you never know. =P At the very least it would be the source of some backstory like with the Tenryuubito marks on the Boa sisters, or the Sun Pirates (?) with Fisher Tiger. But I was reminded by this from the Databooks thread:



Verification: confirmed
Source: AP (http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1969514&postcount=773)
Credits: Greg (http://apforums.net/member.php?u=38)

- They suggest that Ener has yet more ambition and he's heading towards it with his army.


I've been wondering since I saw that quote how Oda could legitimately bring Enel back into the story (as the quote implies), and your theory could be the way Oda is going to bring together all the loose threads.

Once again, good catch!

Channy
November 30, 2010, 05:51 AM
Well i guess this is a good time to talk about the other Wold Government symbol as well


http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080810225037/onepiece/images/c/c0/144.jpeg

what im think is that it might be a reference to Reverse mountain with the four sections being North blue, South blue, East blue, West blue and then the middle of the plus like symbol being the top of Reverse mountain

Lord Rayleigh
November 30, 2010, 06:24 AM
Thanks Geez for your post. Nobody had noticed that there was a symbol which appears all around the Gorusei's room, on the walls. For the three things around the big circle which indeed seem to protect it, my first thought is that they represent the 3 strongholds of the World Government: Enies Lobby, Impel Down and Marineford Marine Headquarters.

There are some sign at the middle of the symbol, in the more little circle. I think that it is important since it is the symbol's core. Strangely, at first glance, it looks like ID's symbol but that does not make sense, does it ? That's probably something else but it's a bit difficult to read. We should look in every chapter where the Gorusei or Mariejois are showed to see if the symbol appear elsewhere.


what im think is that it might be a reference to Reverse mountain with the four sections being North blue, South blue, East blue, West blue and then the middle of the plus like symbol being the top of Reverse mountain
The World Government's flag represents the four seas all connected to the Grand Line. Spandam explained its meaning during the Enies Lobby incident, before Luffy asked Sogeking to burn it.

RezzieThaRapper
November 30, 2010, 07:06 AM
Wow, this is truly thought provoking. Bravo on your post Geez.

If the Gouresei had the three weapons and used them to wipe entire centuries away, this could come into play at any time during the story.

My belief is that the Weapons had to have been stopped by the "Will of D." and this is why they no longer have them.

Another thing. Look below.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pluton - The Weapon of Hades - Can Be Built, or Found Thanks to the Poneglyphs

Poseidon - The Weapon of The Sea - Supposedly found by Roger, as mentioned & hinted on by Shiki, and can be found by Poneglyphs

Zues - The Weapon of Heaven - A supposed, and likely plausible weapon that may be Eneru's ticket back into the story.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With these weapons, another great war WILL happen. History will be revealed, History will be forgotten, and History will be written

chess4
November 30, 2010, 12:56 PM
i think each of the 3 different races that came from the moon had a special weapon. the skypeia arc will have a great significance on the story but later on when more info on the void century is revealed.

Meschea
November 30, 2010, 03:44 PM
Hi everyone.
I also think that three symbol out of the circle are three gates of justice and Enies Lobby,İmpel Down and Marine headquarters.And i think three circle can symbolize three big powers ensure the security of the symbol at the center.,1.Gorousei,2.Yonkou and 3.Shicibukai...At the center there is a symbol that has four corners.I think that can symbolize the Tenryubitto.You also know the tattoo of the tenryubitto.Three nails front and a nail back.There are four of them.All of the these powers secure the safety of them.And also these circles describe their social status.Tenryubiitos are the center of the wg after them gorousei...And the two squares.They have 8 corners.I think the war in void centruy take 800 years.Each corner symbolize each century.
What do you think?sorry about my rude English...

Geez
December 01, 2010, 04:16 AM
There are some sign at the middle of the symbol, in the more little circle. I think that it is important since it is the symbol's core. Strangely, at first glance, it looks like ID's symbol but that does not make sense, does it ? That's probably something else but it's a bit difficult to read. We should look in every chapter where the Gorusei or Mariejois are showed to see if the symbol appear elsewhere.

Now that you point it out, with the poor quality, it look alike a little :blink
But yes, i don't find any reason either, if it was the case. I think it's something else but we can't see it right now and we won't see it until a better image comes out... 'cause i've searched through the chapters and the picture i posted was the better one :(
However, if your theory (Enies lobby, HQ and ID) is correct i doubt the center of the emblem represents the Gorousei. I mean, this giant whirlpool intrigues me, what is supposed to be at the very bottom ? Something hidden ?


And i think three circle can symbolize three big powers ensure the security of the symbol at the center.,1.Gorousei,2.Yonkou and 3.Shicibukai...[...]And the two squares.They have 8 corners.I think the war in void centruy take 800 years.Each corner symbolize each century.
What do you think?

Hi ^^ I don't agree with these two parts: I think an emblem doesn't evolve that much during his "life". So if it was created 800 years ago, when there were no pirates, it couldn't symbolize the three current big powers. Besides, corners symbolizing centuries gives me a one little practical issue... How do you represents 7 centuries ? The emblem must be stable thus symmetric, it would be troublesome to change it every century :oh

----------------------------------------------------

@Aikidoka, i read your post and came to the page you quoted. If you check the previous one of the same chapter, you see the shape of the castle in the Holy land of Mariejoa. Curiously, it reminds me the three protective elements' shape, but it might just be a coincidence :amuse

Meschea
December 01, 2010, 04:40 AM
As i said before i think the war between wg+20 kingdom and Ancient kingdom is about 800 years(my opinion)in void centaury.Not only take the war.Also take the preparations for the revolution like dragon making.I think tenryubittos make same preparations for defeating Ancient Kingdom.This war+preparations represent the foundation of todays Wg.Because of these i said each corner represent one century
And three powers gorousei talk about.Their names can be diffirent is the past.They can reform it for the sake of power balance.The circles also can describe another thing.Its just my opinion.

RezzieThaRapper
January 13, 2011, 12:56 PM
There was a ship called Pluton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Pluton_(1804)) in the battle of Tralfalgar in 1804

It had 74 guns and was known as a line cutter (A ship that infiltrates enemy lines?)

I know that we are expecting enel to find Zues in Space... but what I'm about to say is probably unrelated to Oda's inspiration this is probably irrelavent but there was thismission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPEX/Poseidon) from Nasa that was coined Posidon, and there are many battle ships and basic rescue ships named Poseidon in history

Zues - though I found no notable weapons or vehicles of battle or interest under the Greek name, under the Roman name Jupiter, I found "mine layers", the nick name of illegal Rocket Launchers, Old warships, among other things

Under mythology -

Zues, Posiedon, & Pluton(Hades) were brothers...

Zues reigned from the Sky, he literally controlled the thunder and lightning and even the wind... He, like most of the other Gods felt he was greater than any human or demi-god... Contrary to popular belief, his power isn't the nicest thing, nor was he a benevolent God... Zues has an ego as great as Posiedon's or Hades... They all craved power, but Zues would rather have balance over destruction, but he refused weakness... His power grows based on the strength of humanity

Poseidon is the one who reigned the Sea's and the Ocean, effectively giving him control over 80% of the planet, he is a territorial hog, and his brothers, even the great king Zues were banished from his plane of control in the mortal world. He is the most intelligent of the three massive gods, and got his power from the wisdom of humanity (this effectively making him the weakest of the trio... honestly people aren't smart)

Hades is bad ass... I recommend that all of you look him up in your spare time... the stories involving Hades vary from simple trickery, to barbaric tendencies. He Murders, He Rapes, He goes to war, and he gets fuel from fear and anger (effectively making him stronger than Zues when a war is brought about)

----- How does any of this tie into One Piece --- Or the Gouresei ---

The Council of The Gods - Which led to the imprisonment and release of the Titans in couple of forms of the story. In some renditions their decision is more of a minor thing for the gods, but in other renditions their decision beat even Zues' mighty power.

Their decisions can set in motion peace and war, and they had no way to control the power of the gods, so they at many times wanted to strip their power, in order to bring law and order in admist of chaos.

They once released the titans to do battle with the gods, in order to gain control...

If we could call The Shichbukai the Titans, and whitebeard a walking Persona of Posiedon, that parrallel is creepily simalar that it's almost scary.

Geez
January 14, 2011, 01:30 PM
@Meschea I think i get what you say ! i don't agree 'cause it seems complicated but since we're just throwing hypothesis we're all right and wrong for the time being :)

@RezzieThaRapper You're right on spot for the pluton's ship !

Zeus was just a name i gave to strengthen my idea. Pluton was in Roman mythology, Poseidon in Greek mythology so maybe the third weapon has a name inspired from another one. If Oda remains in the mediterranean sea, we could actually have a Egyptian name like Amon-re but if he goes north with Scandinavian mythology we could have Odin (main god) or Thor (god of thunder... and it does sound cool :D).

RezzieThaRapper
January 17, 2011, 01:15 PM
@Meschea I think i get what you say ! i don't agree 'cause it seems complicated but since we're just throwing hypothesis we're all right and wrong for the time being :)

@RezzieThaRapper You're right on spot for the pluton's ship !

Zeus was just a name i gave to strengthen my idea. Pluton was in Roman mythology, Poseidon in Greek mythology so maybe the third weapon has a name inspired from another one. If Oda remains in the mediterranean sea, we could actually have a Egyptian name like Amon-re but if he goes north with Scandinavian mythology we could have Odin (main god) or Thor (god of thunder... and it does sound cool :D).


Okay after I saw the Bolded area... I did some more research..

Possibilities for the final weapon - Based on relation to Zeus & Jupiter... but not directly from their part in mythology

Norse Mythology - Wotan, Woden, Odin

Egyptian Mythology - No exact match, the closest God could be Amon-Re or the Lightning God - Reshep

African Mythology (Not Egyptian Though) - Shango, Warrior God of Thunder and Hope

Japanese Mythology - Raijin or Raiden would be close to an equivalent
-------

This is of course assuming that Oda is trying to simulate the (Zeus, Poseidon, Hades// Jupiter, Neptune, Pluton relationship)

These are the closest beings (Closest overall being Odin/Wotan) who could be called gods without being from Roman or Greek Mythos

----

The next two lightning gods I listed because they started with the letter "P"

Eurasian Mythology - Perkunos , Perendi

----

Anduren
January 17, 2011, 04:30 PM
I like all the theories here about the Gorousei and the ancient weapons. But I wanted to point out that we shouldn't automatically assume that there are only 3 ancient weapons. So far, what we know about them is that they existed in the past from the time when the poneglyphs were made (before or during the void century) and that Pluton is a battleship that can destroy islands. We only know that there is an ancient weapon called Poseidon (not that it has anything to do with water). For all we know it could be a land weapon or a sky weapon, and the same would go for any other 1+ ancient weapons we will find out about in the future. We also can't assume that if there was an ancient weapon named after someone like Odin, it will have anything to do with a lightning affinity. But I think the reason the Gorousei know about the ancient weapons' existence and the effects of their use is for the same reason the Japanese (and the rest of the world) know about the atom bomb: It was used against them during a war. They know that the ancient weapons exist and what they are capable of but don't know how to make them or use them, which is why they OK'd Spandam's efforts to find Pluton's blueprints.

chess4
May 14, 2011, 09:30 AM
the gorousei are ancient warriors who led the attack on the ancient kingdom.

sh4dx
May 14, 2011, 01:30 PM
something like this chess4.The gorousei at Ohara incident looked exactly like today and it was more than 20 years before.Some believe it has to do with Bonney but i don't think this because her powers don't seem permament(perhaps vegapunk or someone else find another way but right now we don't have a clue) and i also believe that they are DIRECT involved with the ancient kingdom and his destroy.
About the mythology,i am from greece and both Pluton and Poseidon were gods of our ancient mythology.Zeus or "Dias" as we know him here in Greece was the Leader of all the Gods and had control over lightning.

Uriel
May 14, 2011, 01:41 PM
Well, thanks for rebumping this thread. I hadn't see it. Quite a surprise.

You know, maybe those aren't weapons. Maybe it's something else, bigger or greater. The three details looks the same and equal to each other, which means that they are all alike in their function. And they're containing the rest. Hmmm.

And the center could be Impel Down. What if Impel Down wasn't at first a prison? What if the D.s lived there and that place was taken from them? What if Impel Down has more secret than we think it has?

I'm just throwing some lines there.

sh4dx
May 14, 2011, 02:17 PM
About the ancient weapons, i don't know but after we were introduced to guys like aokiji,kizaru,wb recenlty and many others i will find it awkward that some weapon/ship/whatever THING makes an appearence and be equal/more powerful than so many REALLY POWERFUL characters.
It just seems weird that some kind of super/high technology is as strong as some people who were introduced and we saw them freezing oceans,making enormous tsunamis and the list continues i think you get the point.It just feels weird and even if i believe oda at some time of the story(probably near the end/or at the great war)will bring these weapons i don't really like this idea..Is it just me or there are others who thinks the same way ?

Don't get me wrong but i think it's a bit lame that there are some things/weapons/ships or whatever these weapons are that are stronger/equal than the likes of wb etc etc..Afterall characters like wb,aokiji,akainu and many others could easily destroy a whole island/country with their DF powers and even jozu with brute strenght threw a HUGE iceburg with the size of what? 3-4 times Oars or maybe bigger,so i don't think there is a big deal for guys like these to struggle against some kind of weapon..

Darek Khort
May 15, 2011, 01:33 AM
About the ancient weapons, i don't know but after we were introduced to guys like aokiji,kizaru,wb recenlty and many others i will find it awkward that some weapon/ship/whatever THING makes an appearence and be equal/more powerful than so many REALLY POWERFUL characters.
It just seems weird that some kind of super/high technology is as strong as some people who were introduced and we saw them freezing oceans,making enormous tsunamis and the list continues i think you get the point.It just feels weird and even if i believe oda at some time of the story(probably near the end/or at the great war)will bring these weapons i don't really like this idea..Is it just me or there are others who thinks the same way ?


Perhaps the devil fruits are themselves ancient weapons, and that these devil fruits were in fact originally just 3. Perhaps certain Ds had managed to split the devil fruits apart, reducing their power.
It would give impetus to why Blackbeard has 2 devil fruits - perhaps he found a way to possibly combine them again and has managed to combine two together.

Uriel
May 15, 2011, 03:06 AM
It could be the 3 types of Devil's Fruit as well, if we look symbolism.

Geez
May 15, 2011, 06:50 AM
@sh4dx, I can't confirm anything about their actual power but the fact is: the ancient weapons do exist. If the WG is so interested in these weapons, then they must be somehow useful... or powerful as written in the poneglyph! And yes these "THINGS" will make an appearance. In fact, they already did when they were first mentioned in Arabasta.

We just don't know how they will appear. I like the ideas of Darek Khort and LordUriel, Oda once told he wasn't really skilled in robots' design so the weapons aren't necessarily some advanced constructions but rather Devil Fruits... or both! In Pluton's case, it was said to be a huge warship but maybe it is supposed to be triggered by one specific Devil Fruit. The same way Ener's power will be able to activate Zeus, his brand new ship found on Moon :p

sh4dx
May 15, 2011, 12:59 PM
i never said that they don't exist, read my post better.i just said that even if the WG thinks that they are so much powerful and all, i just think it's a bit lame that some kind of weapon/ship whatever is equal/more powerful than those top tiers we have seen so far and probably we'll see more of them (dragon,kaido etc etc).

The idea of being the 3 types of DF is a bit weird i don't know,BUT if it goes this way i hope and believe that Oda will do a good work because i would be dissapointed to see something that is not LIVING creature and is equal or stronger to the top tiers who are clearly are capable of destroying islands/countries etc with their DF powers

Geez
May 15, 2011, 01:24 PM
My bad, i though you said it was too lame to really be coming in the story.
I still disagree, i can't see why it's weird for humans to make weapons, especially when we see monsters like the top 3. We don't know why they've been built yet, imagine there was a war between fruit users and simple humans: what would you do in their place? I think the reason of the weapons will comfort you in some way.

Uriel
May 15, 2011, 01:33 PM
The idea of being the 3 types of DF is a bit weird i don't know,BUT if it goes this way i hope and believe that Oda will do a good work because i would be dissapointed to see something that is not LIVING creature and is equal or stronger to the top tiers who are clearly are capable of destroying islands/countries etc with their DF powers
We don't know the origins of DF's to assume that they're not living creatures :P
I still remember the myths CP9 had about DFs and I can't but wonder how much truth on that lines could be.

sh4dx
May 15, 2011, 02:30 PM
well maybe but don't get confused,my point it's quite simple,so far we have seen chars like wb,aokiji,akainu etc etc and still we haven't see dragon kaido and many other TOP tiers that can easily destroy/annihiliate ANYTHING/ANYONE thanks to their DF so now you just assume that the ancient weapons MIGHT be/have something to do with DF which is unlikely at least for the one because it has BLUEPRINTS,you forgot it?I really really doubt something "living creature" or something that has to do with DF need blueprints it doesn't make sense...It's obvious that the ancient weapon that franky had the blueprints it's 100% a thing/warship NOT living creature/df whatever,i think you get the point.Also even if there are 3 ancient weapons(so far i think we know for 2 right?or i forgot something?) if the one HAS BLUEPRINTS then your theory of 3DF types=3 ancient weapons stands no ground!

Anyway the point is that it's a bit lame IMO that somekind of thing/warship/weapon is equal to humans like the ones i said above.

Anduren
May 15, 2011, 10:38 PM
...imagine there was a war between fruit users and simple humans: what would you do in their place?

If there was a war between two groups (fruit users vs simple humans), if I was on the simple human side, what I would do is find a way to flood the whole planet so that all the fruit users would drown and all the simple humans would swim to safety: end of war. :amuse

With more and more tenryubito being introduced lately and the strawhats being right under their noses (literally), as well as Robin being about to translate yet another poneglyph for us anytime in the current arc (fishman arc), I think we have a good chance of finding out a bit more of Oda's secrets about the void century and the Gorousei as well.

Ninja_Pirate
May 23, 2011, 12:09 PM
Just saw this discussion a week back... missed it :( ... Actually never really cared about the emblem.. The emblem has been shown at two different instances by oda and he didnt take too much pain to make them exactly same if you will look closely... However it may be just because he has no intention of explaining it yet and might come with some master piece at later stage...

There are some scattered pieces thrown by oda... like void century... the kingdom... will of D .. Gorousei...sacred land mareijoa...

The three things around the symbol kindda look like shape of dragon or some creature with wings to me.. however on the city of moon also there have been certain symbols drawn .. i dont know if that could be related to something..

http://www.mangareader.net/103-2577-1/one-piece/chapter-470.html
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2579-1/one-piece/chapter-472.html

I dont think the symbol at mareijoa has anything to do with devil fruits, since oda mentioned that whenever anything has to relate to DF it should have some spiral pattern.. which the symbol does not have

sarutobi_sensei
May 31, 2011, 10:02 PM
Great finding. Never noticed the symbol before.

Well, the 3 outside of the circle things could in fact be the 3 Ancient Weapons, but it could also be the 3 Great Powers (Marines, WG and Shichibukai), or even the 3 strongholds of the WG, Enies Lobby, Marine Headquarters and Impel Down.

Well we're only assuming that there are only 3 ancient weapons. We've heard of 2, Pluton and Poseidon. There could be more than just 3 of them.

Remind me if I'm wrong, but Franky had the blueprints of Pluton, in order to make a 2nd Pluton should the 1st ever be revived right?

So we know that this @ least still exists and it should be in Arabasta. Or @ least in Arabasta is the info on it's location right? Poseidon was the one mentioned in the Skypiea Poneglyph right?

Well, I also think that the findings of Enel on the moon are indeed important to the Story. There's no way he wouldn't be coming back to the Blue Sea. Oda even said that he would come.

But returning to the main topic, the symbol. This is another of the mystery from One Piece. What if, the symbol isn't even theirs? What if they stole the symbol from the ancient Kingdom?

---------- Post added at 04:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 AM ----------

Hmm, when did Enel find a ship on the moon? I know Maxim was destroyed, but still... I don't recall him finding another ship.

Regarding the Impel down having more secrets, I also think so. The symbols on the walls are really interesting. How did they manage to build that building, underwater, with the Sea Kings roaming around there? Could the D's have built it? How ?

And regarding the Giant Warships that don't seem as powerfull as a human like we've seen recently. Well only some are capable of destroying entire islands. Not many, some. The ship would destroy it easily, there would be no need for a buster call. Plus the technology in it could be even more advance than what Vegapunk knows.

Geez
June 03, 2011, 06:36 AM
I said that Enel found a ship on the moon but it was pure speculation of course :p

Regarding the 3 strongholds, i always wondered how that whirlpool was made (if not natural) and what was lying at the root of it. So I began to focus on impel down and noticed its weird shape (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100211012739/onepiece/images/thumb/5/5e/Impel_Down_Underwater.JPG/727px-Impel_Down_Underwater.JPG). From that angle or from above ID, it kinda looks like a sun. Same with Marineford HQ (http://images.wikia.com/onepiece/images/a/a6/Marineford_island.PNG) and its crescent moon's shape. But i must admit that i don't really see what Enies lobby (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090525150713/onepiece/images/thumb/a/ab/Enies_Lobby-1-.jpg/545px-Enies_Lobby-1-.jpg) looks like... Could it be a former island completely destroyed by an ancient weapon? Or just a symbol i don't understand?

What if those islands were clues from the past? Ninja_Pirate posted two links which reveal that some people lived on the moon, besides we now know that a "fake sun", named Eve Tree, allows a whole race to live underwater. Noah indicates us that Fishmen weren't the first ones to live there.
I don't really see the point to steal an emblem, but if it was indeed stolen, i guess i'd say that those three parts in it represent the 3 strongholds, symbols of the lost civilization's past.

Ninja_Pirate
June 03, 2011, 09:12 AM
I said that Enel found a ship on the moon but it was pure speculation of course :p

Regarding the 3 strongholds, i always wondered how that whirlpool was made (if not natural) and what was lying at the root of it. So I began to focus on impel down and noticed its weird shape (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100211012739/onepiece/images/thumb/5/5e/Impel_Down_Underwater.JPG/727px-Impel_Down_Underwater.JPG). From that angle or from above ID, it kinda looks like a sun. Same with Marineford HQ (http://images.wikia.com/onepiece/images/a/a6/Marineford_island.PNG) and its crescent moon's shape. But i must admit that i don't really see what Enies lobby (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090525150713/onepiece/images/thumb/a/ab/Enies_Lobby-1-.jpg/545px-Enies_Lobby-1-.jpg) looks like... Could it be a former island completely destroyed by an ancient weapon? Or just a symbol i don't understand?

What if those islands were clues from the past? Ninja_Pirate posted two links which reveal that some people lived on the moon, besides we now know that a "fake sun", named Eve Tree, allows a whole race to live underwater. Noah indicates us that Fishmen weren't the first ones to live there.
I don't really see the point to steal an emblem, but if it was indeed stolen, i guess i'd say that those three parts in it represent the 3 strongholds, symbols of the lost civilization's past.
More i dont wanna bother about this thing.. more ur post intrigues me to do so .. :p

Enies Lobby looks like a Solar eclipse to me .. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090525150713/onepiece/images/a/ab/Enies_Lobby-1-.jpg :p

But why that three island to be the reminiscent of the past.. we know that shandora has a history back to the days of ancient kingdom... and more important the fishman island too... considering tom has the blueprints of the weapon to go against the ancient weapon (pluton) .. and it might have been passed through from one generation to others.. till date we can assume the history of that lies with FI... I am so excited about the poneyglaph at fishman island to be revealed..

If we consider that in our real world there is global rift and once it was all water .. land emerged out of it.. rifted and got separated.. and now getting submerged again... if we put the same logic in one piece, one thing is that the eve tree might have been on surface once.. but again that seems illogical considering "10000 ft" figure... also there must be parts of island now submerged in water which makes it impossible to reach there.. idea struck me seeing that pic of impel down.. which shows rocks around means there is a very little depth to certain area encompassing impel down.. and it could actually be a part of island which once submerged...

and that is what might have happened with raftel (or ancient kingdom) ... The place which connects to it must be a famous place and still people keep searching that without realizing that the place is under the thing.. as proffessor clover was about to tell the name of the city he was being shot.. indicates that the name must reveal something.. may be making it obvious.. or it is just might be a taboo to say that name :p.. because if people are just moving tracing the magnetic field they must reach the last island to get to raftel... i dont see why no one has reached there .. what i think is they did reach but could not figure out.. but still then the words must be out.. i read a theory given by someone about ancient kingdom actually must be surrounded by different weathers layer by layer which makes it difficult or nearly impossible to reach.. however i like submerged theory better (don't know if some one has already given it)

However it does not connect anywhere to the emblem.. so kindda off topic..just put down my thoughts.. if someone finds it interesting to read :) ..lol

Geez
June 03, 2011, 12:38 PM
I like the Solar eclipse thing :)

The more i think about it the more i think it may be totally random... Oda could have made these islands this way just for fun. But it sure is suspicious!

Some thing's up with one piece's world for sure and i think we'll learn more about it when Noah will be explained. A logical hypothesis would be that the Deluge occurred as described in the bible. I think the Eve Tree was planted there by those who were fleeing the flood, because the place where it stands is not common. This is where the currents meet thus where Noah was dragged. If it was already there, it's kinda really lucky for them...

Anduren
June 03, 2011, 06:11 PM
If you want to consider the downfall of mankind, it was caused by Adam and Eve coming into contact with the Devil. Surprisingly we have all three of these alluded to in One Piece: Treasure Tree Adam, Sunlight Tree Eve, and Devil Fruits....all of which are extremely rare in the One Piece world and may have caused the downfall of the ancient kingdom.

Out of the many things the symbol represents, its just as possible that the emblem represents these three things and a relationship between them that has yet to be revealed. I don't know if it's just a coincidence that the Sunlight Tree Eve is directly below the holy land where the Tenryubito live. And we still don't know where the Treasure Tree Adam is or how exactly devil fruits come to the possession of people.

The existence of a giant ship called Noah seems to be hinting at the flood theory which would explain why most of the One Piece world is submerged. Also I have a feeling that once we find out the true history it will make sense to us how Impel Down was built from the sea floor up as well as where all that water in the waterfall at Enies Lobby is going to....and what is causing the giant whirlpool at the tarai current, IF there really was a flood.

Also, reading some of the earlier posts I noticed something that I wanted to point out: Considering that the blueprints for Pluton existed at some point (before it got burned), it implies that its possible to have more than one Pluton at any one time....meaning that even IF there were only three ancient weapons, just using the blueprints would make it possible to have 4 or more....so technically its not possible to say there's only 3 Ancient Weapons until we find out more from the story their role in the void century.

Ninja_Pirate
June 04, 2011, 05:46 AM
Also, reading some of the earlier posts I noticed something that I wanted to point out: Considering that the blueprints for Pluton existed at some point (before it got burned), it implies that its possible to have more than one Pluton at any one time....meaning that even IF there were only three ancient weapons, just using the blueprints would make it possible to have 4 or more....so technically its not possible to say there's only 3 Ancient Weapons until we find out more from the story their role in the void century.

If you are implying that by having blue print of an ancient weapon it can be rebuild thus increasing the number... but still the type of weapon will remain the same... Franky did tell that the blue prints are not of pluton .. it is just some no name weapon with file cover name pluton since it was to build to oppose pluton... Moreover three no. of weapons is a theory just seeing the pattern and there definitely could be more..

About Fishman island.. There is a tree.. at skypiea there was a tree beam again .. though it happened not long back but finally the poneyglaph has reached the top of the beam ... that means that beam was always there... however finding poneyglaph there was just a coincidence of the knock up stream to knock the island at exact same position.. However considering the similarities in two arcs i would say the poneyglaph for FI might be at the roots of the tree...

Anduren
June 04, 2011, 04:48 PM
@Ninja_Pirate I agree with everything you said :amuse. It was only a technicality that I pointed out. Also, it may very well be that by the end we will find out there actually were only three ancient weapons. But there has been no evidence so far in the story of the number of types of ancient weapons. We've found out about two so far and its been implied that there is as many ancient weapons as one less than the number of poneglyphs since only the Rio Poneglyph contains the true history.

Ninja_Pirate
June 07, 2011, 02:30 PM
@Anduren .. As per my understanding of poneglyphs .. there are two types.. one contains the history and other tells the location of poneglyph which has that piece of true history... making all this pieces join together.. is what makes rio poneglyph and rio poneglyph is not a stone itself.. it translates as true history which will be weaved by taking short pieces from all available poneglyphs ... Also its not like all poneglyphs gives a location of one weapon.. we have seen a poneglyph at ohara library.. which contains a piece of true history but there was no mention of any weapon when doc clover spoke of it.. what cud be interpreted is that stone contains the name of the ancient kingdom which Dr. clover was about to speak before getting shot... But i remember that robin also knew what was written on that poneglyph that means she must be knowing the name of the ancient kingdom that Dr. clover was about to tell that time... and has been kept secret by oda for later stage///

Anduren
June 07, 2011, 06:49 PM
@Ninja_Pirate You're right about there being two types of poneglyphs, one containing history and another containing information/location of an ancient weapon. This means that not all poneglyphs other than the Rio Poneglyph contains information about an ancient weapon, so I will concede that. But I have to disagree with some of what you said here:


...one contains the history and other tells the location of poneglyph which has that piece of true history... making all this pieces join together.. is what makes rio poneglyph and rio poneglyph is not a stone itself.. it translates as true history which will be weaved by taking short pieces from all available poneglyphs ...

When Robin was reading out the poneglyph at Alubarna she was reading out aloud the history that had taken place before the void century (years 229 to 325- about 400 years before the void century). So to say that the poneglyphs that contain pieces of the true history doesn't mean they contain pieces of the void century's events....just the time line since before the void century. It is my understanding that the Rio Poneglyph is the actual stone that contains the void century's history as opposed to random historical information. Also, since the poneglyphs were made by the people of the ancient kingdom, it also means that the Rio Poneglyph was the last one they managed to make before their kingdom fell... meaning it contains the last of the true history including that of the void century ending the time line of recorded history woven into the other older poneglyphs located all over the world whose chronological order leads to the Rio Poneglyph at the end. Because of this, its possible that reading ANY of the older poneglyphs that contains historical information can give you the name of the ancient kingdom since the poneglyphs were made during the ancient kingdom's time (not after it fell). I'm guessing this is why reading poneglyphs was banned....not specifically because of the Rio Poneglyph, but because information about the ancient kingdom can be gleaned from studying any one of them, hence the member of the Gorousei who said "Ohara has learned too much" (Chapter 395, page 10) just after he ordered Professor Clover shot.

Tying this back to the Gorousei's emblem and the world government.....If this means that the ancient weapons also existed long before the void century, it's possible that they might not have played a part in what happened in the void century. Or maybe, it was due to the ancient weapons that the ancient kingdom remained in power, and the fall of the ancient kingdom came about when the founders of the world government managed to disable these ancient weapons. This would explain why Franky and the line of shipwrights at Water 7 had blueprints for things capable of opposing the likes of Pluton.

EDIT: I also wanted to make the distinction (just in case) about true history vs "fake" history....the world government has only banned studying the void century meaning they don't prevent the study of history before the void century through books (which contain "fake" history with the ancient kingdom edited out of it). This is why the poneglyphs with historical information contain "true" history....as in the unedited history through the eyes of the people of the ancient kingdom before their existence was erased from books and texts at the time of the void century.

$nipe
September 15, 2011, 03:57 PM
I tried to draw it but there are too many blurry details. :(

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4545/gorosei.jpg

chess4
September 16, 2011, 12:38 AM
i willing to bet anything that the gorousei are ancient warriors and during the void century they were the generals who led the attack on the ancient kingdom. For their loyal service, the celestial dragons gave them some type of altered fruit that gave them immortality or long life and allowed them to be the gorusei and ruke the world.

If you look at them they have scares and they look like warriors.....there emblem was probably the sign of the army they led agaisnt the the ancient kingdom

Uriel
September 16, 2011, 12:16 PM
I tried to draw it but there are too many blurry details. :(
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4545/gorosei.jpg
Nice work!

Well, I guess you'll have a closer look later. If you're using vector it will be easier.

Geez
December 15, 2011, 02:25 PM
Last chapter proved me right !! :tem

At least for ancient weapons part, for now i can't be sure for the emblem... The number 3 comes often in the story, there are:
3 known races : "Moon men", Fishmen and Men. (all having their sub-species like Giants or Birkans)
3 strongholds : Enies-lobby, Impel-Down and Marineford
3 ancient weapons : Pluto, Poseidon and Ouranos
3 great powers: marines, shichibukai and Yonko
3 types of demon fruits: Logia, Paramecia and Zoan

Imo those who seem to fit the most are the bold ones. I was focusing on the weapons but knowing that the Gorosei doesn't possess one or two of them makes me doubt the theory.
Whereas the strongholds in the Tarai current are quite mysterious. Their shapes are not random, they can be an hint to trigger the giant whirlpool and reveal what is hidden in it. (But again, it's a bit far-fetched 'cause fishmen are near the current and they could have seen what's in there.) So basically, an eclipse should do the trick.

Also I noticed something about the emblem not so long ago. It reminds me of the Seal of Solomon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_Solomon) which could allow him to control demons, genies and talk to animals. Even though there are no triangles in the emblem, it's a weird coincidence with the demon fruits :confused:
Thus, can we assume they sealed something or someone too dangerous? Maybe the "protective elements" are in fact the keys that sealed the thing which can be Raftel, or Joy Boy himself.
The last one is far-fetched but interesting because, well it's new :amuse and we know that he couldn't keep a promise. Was that a willing sacrifice to end a war?

Well, well I come with more questions than answers!!

kkck
December 15, 2011, 03:16 PM
how about the monster trio (luffy, zoro and sanji) and the purely hypothetical monster trio of the roger pirates (gold roger, silver railey, and bronze -seriously, what are the odds of a bronze not being somewhere around there?)

GiantAlienHamster
December 28, 2011, 12:56 PM
The emblem has actually been shown quiet clearly in the anime allready:

http://opwiki.de/images/Mary_Joa_kunstvoll.png

The thing in the middle is a lilly, which is a symbol for the holy trinity as well as a symbol for royalty

blamagenkind
December 31, 2011, 12:28 PM
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2577-1/one-piece/chapter-470.html
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2579-1/one-piece/chapter-472.html

I dont think the symbol at mareijoa has anything to do with devil fruits, since oda mentioned that whenever anything has to relate to DF it should have some spiral pattern.. which the symbol does not have

I think the three people from the left side of ch.472 are from Skypiea, look the their heads.
Also, I don't think the symbol is really significant, it doesn't feel right that there are too many of them. Maybe it's just an architectural design. But if it does have significance, I'm guessing it's a symbol for the three superpower countries from 800 years ago, the Ancient Kingdom, the World Government and another one(could be the fishmen race). Or the kingdoms from sky, earth and sea.

Edit: or it's just for royalty like GiantAlienHamster said.

Lord Rayleigh
January 02, 2012, 09:27 AM
The thing in the middle is a lilly, which is a symbol for the holy trinity as well as a symbol for royalty

Thanks for the picture but it's not a lily, it is a Fleur-de-lys. Lily is the english translation of the french word lys which is a flower. Anyway, the word Lys in Fleur-de-lys does not refer to the flower lys (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lys) : it refers to the river Lys (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lys_(rivi%C3%A8re)).

So the Fleur de Lys is a flower from Lys and not the flower lys itself. The real flower from the fleur-de-lys is an iris (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Iris_pseudacorus.jpg) which grew in abundance all around Lys'riverbanks. That's the true origin of the French monarchy symbol.

Geez
January 02, 2012, 02:33 PM
I think the three people from the left side of ch.472 are from Skypiea

There's an article about this matter here (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Moon) :)