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Negative Syndicate
December 13, 2010, 08:02 AM
Since Tokyo government passed the manga sensorship regulation, so I want to know how others think about this issue.

Also, 10 publishers (including Kadokawa, Shueisha, Koudansha, and Shogakukan) announced they are going to boycott upcoming Anime Fair 2011.

Library War (Toshokan Sensou) is not a fiction story, anymore.

Nayrael
December 13, 2010, 08:26 PM
The Mayor once called the people to physically attack the Prime Minister because he wasn't nationalistic enough. I don't think he is able to see reason.

Negative Syndicate
December 13, 2010, 08:27 PM
Well, I think main problem for the bill is it didn't specifide enough for what is a limit in shonen manga, like whether kiss or bathing scene of female character is allowed in series.

Bill also not only meant to decrease sexual assaults on teenagers, it also targets on youth violence. Since Jump mainly has action series, government might step in and reduce battle/action scenes.

Plus, the publishers which going to boycott Anime Fair are: Akita Shoten, Kadokawa Shoten, Koudansha, Shueisha, Shogakukan, Shounen Gahousha, Shinchousha, Hakushensha, Futabasha, and LEED.

Does anyone know who have more power, PTA/human rights organiztions or those publishers?


From how it sounds, the Tokyo mayor is rather old fashion and just never understands manga/anime no matter how much everyone, from the industry to even the Prime Minister, tells him otherwise. Sometimes it's just a matter of someone who doesn't get it trying to force it on others...


I'm not sure other people know about this; Ishihara Shintarou, Tokyo mayor, is also a novelist before becoming a politician.

Forever Rain
December 13, 2010, 11:15 PM
At the fear of angering all of you guys, to a certain extent I think the law is headed in the right direction for japan. Too much of their anime/manga celebrates the perverse involving young underaged girls and I believe that it really could be harmful to the youth.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the law just stating that materials they deem harmful will be rated 18+. That's what I understand? The article seemed to imply those insanely ecchi manga like to love ru could legally be sold to minors but now they will have to be 18+ ero manga, which, excuse me for sounding insane, makes perfect sense.

Now I don't know if the weekly young jump that Gantz prints in is sold to kids despite being a Seinen magazine or not but if they would get that undercontrol and sold it to people 16/17+ then I think it would be better for their culture. It's not like it's not like that in America. Dragonball manga was banned from Walmarts and other stores the seconded it was found out that it contained nudity in it and that's a shonen series.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 12:03 AM
I agree with you on government intervention on sensorship of manga. Some series are unapropriate for teenagers.

However, the main problem is the statements are too broad; it didn't show how far mangakas can go, like kiss and/or bathing scene of female characters are accpetable. This regulation not only applicable for seinen mangas, but also it is applicable for shonen mangas, too. The statement can be analysed differently depends on person. For example, if certain politicians don't like One Piece, Naruto, or Conan, they can force it to change or end it by giving excuses under ragulations.

Furthermore, this bill is not effective on live-adaptation. That means manga/animation are bad for teenagers, but AV is okay for them. It only sounds like Tokyo government just making this law because they don't like animation/manga.

In conclusion, I'm about half and half on this issue. I think the bill need more specific details on maximum level of sensorship; and they should also work regulation for teens on live-adaptation, if they do care about health of youths.

kanamechidori
December 14, 2010, 12:50 AM
Tokyo Governor Ishihara is a hypocrite.

He wrote a book with rape in it (maybe child rape too).

His rape novel isn't covered by the law, only anime and manga which he is on a jihad against.

He considers being gay or having gay characters something that could damage children and families.

In other words no more yuri or yaoi gets printed because of that uptight asshole.

All crime can cause an AO rating....name one good shounen series where there isn't any death or killing? Sarcasm about Naruto and Bleach aside there IS killing and death.


This is so broad and insane anything can be banned.

One publisher refuses to print or reprint printed manga that shows school uniforms.

Not for hentai purposes...just in the setting.

This law is the japanese version of the american comic books code.





They want to prevent child abuse by caving into the demands of retarded countries with far higher rape statistics than japan.

Maybe Ishihara will write to Manson in prison and ask for advice on how to raise a proper family.

Or use necromancy to contact the spirit of jeffrey dahmer so he can start a healthier diet.

It's insane and cannot end well.

Damura
December 14, 2010, 01:06 AM
At the fear of angering all of you guys, to a certain extent I think the law is headed in the right direction for japan. Too much of their anime/manga celebrates the perverse involving young underaged girls and I believe that it really could be harmful to the youth.

If it is harmful to youth naturally you'd keep it away from them. Truth is we don't know. The Japanese government is pulling this shit out of their ass. I'd prefer it if they at least aspired to take some manner of evidence based approach. To be honest I doubt that underaged manga girls can 'harm' youth, in the same way I doubt violence and fanservice and all the rest can harm youth. Exactly what sort of harm do you imagine these images will be doing?


Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the law just stating that materials they deem harmful will be rated 18+. That's what I understand? The article seemed to imply those insanely ecchi manga like to love ru could legally be sold to minors but now they will have to be 18+ ero manga, which, excuse me for sounding insane, makes perfect sense.

Now I don't know if the weekly young jump that Gantz prints in is sold to kids despite being a Seinen magazine or not but if they would get that undercontrol and sold it to people 16/17+ then I think it would be better for their culture. It's not like it's not like that in America. Dragonball manga was banned from Walmarts and other stores the seconded it was found out that it contained nudity in it and that's a shonen series.

The fear I have with this is that these companies won't try to change their standards. Rather than young jump (for example) changing it's target audience, they may just decide to censor new releases instead. They may have to drop or heavily alter ongoing series.

Lol just curious but why would stronger regulations on Japan's manga industry improve their culture?

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 01:12 AM
I'm curious, is there any specific scientific evidence that support manga/animation encouraged youths to commit both sexual and physical assaults?

kanamechidori
December 14, 2010, 01:15 AM
Negative it's about some guy going crazy and murdering someone and the media blames his manga addiction not his mental illness.

Like some shut in america if a shutin whos parents are in the NRA takes a gun to school and starts capping people it's "the violent video game industries fault."

Damura
December 14, 2010, 01:16 AM
Tokyo Governor Ishihara is a hypocrite.

He wrote a book with rape in it (maybe child rape too).

He's only a hypocrite if he knows that books and TV (which also wasn't targetted) are just as harmful as manga/anime. As it stands he just pulled all of that 'harmful to youth' shit out of his ass, so he's closer to a bastard than a hypocrite.

From what I've heard he is against gay people and this ban does seem to be a stepping stone towards further discrimination, but I don't think we're quite there yet.

Apparently BDSM is banned as well, interestingly. I was not aware it counted as 'illegal sexual activity' in Japan. I wonder if there are laws against it where I live... it seems to me that consensual BDSM is fine in real life.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 01:18 AM
Negative it's about some guy going crazy and murdering someone and the media blames his manga addiction not his mental illness.

Like some shut in america if a shutin whos parents are in the NRA takes a gun to school and starts capping people it's "the violent video game industries fault."

so, that means there is abosolutely no scientific evidence?

Damura
December 14, 2010, 01:34 AM
so, that means there is abosolutely no scientific evidence?

I heard there was only very weak evidence that videogame violence was correlated with real life violence. While it's not quite the same, I think it's an indicator that they wouldn't have evidence for sexual content = sexual crime.

We don't really know much about the determinants of sexual desire. We can't really say for sure what makes us gay or straight or bisexual, or whether we have a special interest in shoes or furries or rape. Even once we have a desire, that doesn't make us criminals. What the Japanese government is saying with this ban is that manga not only fosters a desire for rape, BDSM and pedophilia, but that it also creates an urge so impossible to control that it will cause young people to commit crimes in order to satisfy their dark need. It's also saying that once you're 18 you're instantly immune to rape porn.

102jayday
December 14, 2010, 01:38 AM
4KIDS has taken over japan!

Seriously need new people in the govenment because the current guys are people who have grudges over anime and are just abusing their power for personal opionons. You don't take a culture away from your people.

elitefox
December 14, 2010, 01:42 AM
I don't understand... Japan is banning loli porn only or shots or scenes?

seems ok to me... I really don't like or even want to glimpse loli, god damn it is a child for god sake.

kanamechidori
December 14, 2010, 01:50 AM
Ishihara seems to be a master of the slippery slope.

He'll probably try to get the PTA b**hes to have gay characters declared harmful.

Like a gay girl or guy in a series gets it a AO rating.

Gays freak the moral guardians the **** out.



Elitefox: Anything harmful to the development of youth is banned.

Anything from Rei in evangelion to the pill popping and bicycle gangs in akira could qualify.

Some people like Agnes Chan are trying to ban swimsuits and school uniforms from manga altogether.

One publisher refuses to publish manga or reprint manga with school uniforms.



This is more than a "make lolicon illegal" law. It's a "make fictional crime or things that suggest fictional crime...or even displaying fictional pre 18s NONSEXUALLY illegal law."

Kaiten
December 14, 2010, 01:57 AM
Hi!

Please feel free to debate the issue but keep the language civil. Thanks!

Here (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-12-13/tokyo-youth-ordinance-bill-approved-by-committee) is a link to an article about the bill.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 02:13 AM
I don't understand... Japan is banning loli porn only or shots or scenes?

seems ok to me... I really don't like or even want to glimpse loli, god damn it is a child for god sake.

It's not just about banning lolicon; it's about banning a series that politicians think it'll give negative influences on youths. Therefore, shonen mangas, like One Piece, Naruto, Fairy Tail, and Conan, also will be considered to be illegal to sale to teenagers, if politicians think they give bad influence to youths.

kanamechidori
December 14, 2010, 02:21 AM
They might even be banned if they're too critical of japan.

Before WWII was over it was a crime to "tarnish the character of japan."

You could be arrested for dissent under those laws.

This is something similar...let's say there's a gintama charicature of Ishihara Ishihara doesn't like, he can bring it to the committee and take out people critical of him and his racist (hates foreigners and even japanese with 1 foreign parent) policies.

Damura
December 14, 2010, 02:41 AM
I don't understand... Japan is banning loli porn only or shots or scenes?

seems ok to me... I really don't like or even want to glimpse loli, god damn it is a child for god sake.

The law prohibits the depcition of any illegal sexual activity and even any glorification of any kind of said activity. As I understand it.

This includes underaged girls and boys, rape, groping, bondage, public urination and voyeurism. Probably bestiality and incest too, though it might be okay if it's just the characters step-mom.
[hr]

They might even be banned if they're too critical of japan.

Before WWII was over it was a crime to "tarnish the character of japan."

You could be arrested for dissent under those laws.

This is something similar...let's say there's a gintama charicature of Ishihara Ishihara doesn't like, he can bring it to the committee and take out people critical of him and his racist (hates foreigners and even japanese with 1 foreign parent) policies.

With the kind of rationale they've been using anything's possible. They can deem anything to be harmful without any real evidence and then they can ban it. Still, all they've done at this point is try to prevent the sale of this content to minors. Anyone over 18 can get this stuff. What happens now is either the manga distributor company things will either be forced to rate their products as 18+ or they'll censor it to get a lower rating so they can sell it to children.

kanamechidori
December 14, 2010, 02:45 AM
Damura what you don't understand is that an AO rating is like the NC 17 kiss of death for american movies.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 02:55 AM
Does anyone know what percentage animation/manga industry take part on Tokyo economy?

102jayday
December 14, 2010, 03:50 AM
Hey japan should take down their most loved giant gundam....because gundam had war and lots of deaths so they should ban it...

I'm going to japan and going to do a comic of 2 pages and have a stick figure kill the other, then i should get arrested. That is how silly this bill is.
I wonder how the japanese people feel about this silly bill. They would be pretty upset because anime/manga is big in their culture. It's like the govenment is taking candy away from a baby but in this case it's like people in teens, 20s and 30s getting their ps3 taken away.

Is any groups protesting this? Like common stuff that happens in anime is on tv in normal shows. These days i notice in PG movies they have death scenes and stuff.

@damura oh if it means its okay for people over 18 then its okay XD as long as they don't censor gantz and berserk. And as well as i can still get to see it.

StrangerAtaru
December 14, 2010, 08:43 AM
I'm not sure other people know about this; Ishihara Shintarou, Tokyo mayor, is also a novelist before becoming a politician.

Suddenly I imagine him as a hypocrit. He can have a freedom to depict what he wants in his novels which probably can be read by anyone, including children intelligent enough to understand it, but kids can't read something that probably is a bit more surreal and serving. Anime and manga have had these things for decades...and just NOW they're considered a trouble for their generation?

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 12:03 PM
I wonder how the japanese people feel about this silly bill. They would be pretty upset because anime/manga is big in their culture.

Well, I heard PTA and human rights organizations are in favor for this bill.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 12:11 PM
Shueisha informed to animation studio that they'll reserve a release of animation which was adaptation from Shueisha's manga for against the bill. I think that means there not going to air One Piece, Naruto, or maybe even Beelzebub for a while.

mcd693
December 14, 2010, 12:58 PM
I think what is important to keep in mind is that perverse sexual content is already prevented.


The current ordinance already prevents the sale and renting of "harmful publications" — materials that are "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior" to people under the age of 18

They already HAVE what a lot of people in this forum are supporting. I for one support prevent the sale of specific content to youth.

Now, what people aren't cuing into is that this ban WILL,
allow the government to directly regulate the above images if the depicted

In layman's terms this means they can pretty much do whatever they want to the content. Having a degree in law I can tell you that after criminal charges are laid(and they will) if people don't adhere to this ban immediately the companies they work for will not be able to function.

The companies will die out for the following reason--->
“the intent of the revision and take necessary steps, such as increasing the time involved in the evaluation process.” The key point here being INCREASING the time. This means stonewalling projects that the government find offensive. Has anyone here ever heard of kentaro miura's berserk? If you follow berserk than you know first hand how many, "breaks" he takes. Now imagine all the different mangas that could easily fit under these broad guidelines(it is really just personal opinion at this point) being forced to take these breaks to re-
evaluate

When i see comments like this,
"Don't let the chilling effect [of increased regulation] stop you from doing material you want to do. Jump will feature anything [we feel] that is exciting [to read].“ I am not humble. I focus on the wording of, "we feel" and I reflect on what that means. Now i fully understand the venue in which it is referring but the message is very clear. The content will change from the original idea and I can't support that. From now on all the content an artist attempts to create in Tokyo will be,
carefully regulated

I can imagine all of the artists, mentors, and students thinking about the lack of support and a crumbling future. Contemplating a different career path or leaving their life behind in order to pursue a future in art.

Once again, I am going to reiterate that I do not condone sale of offensive material to minors but to obliterate it all together isn't the answer either.
[hr]

I'm curious, is there any specific scientific evidence that support manga/animation encouraged youths to commit both sexual and physical assaults?

No. In fact there have been a slew of studies done that support the exact opposite. Many of the studies focused on hardcore pornography and used phallometric testing. (device around your penis that measures stimulation)
If you want to know more about specific studies I can reference them.

It is important to note that the psychological aspect of what the Tokyo government is proposing is ONE very specific type of learning known as, "observational learning". For those of you who aren't familiar with this idea it's the age old, "monkey see - monkey do." theory.

It is also important to note that these tests support that watching hardcore porn does NOT illicit assault and that the subjects were watching real people. Anime and manga are fictitious people in a fantasy world. How the government is getting away with this stretch of incorrect, unsupported, biased material is beyond me. The wording int the ban continually supports the government's position as being, "the good guys" doing what has to be done to protect the children but all I am seeing is a misguided attempt at rectifying high rates of sexual assault in Tokyo.

Divinenega
December 14, 2010, 01:03 PM
That comment from Shueisha was the editors saying "screw you!" to Ishihara. They'll keep doing what they want because the government can only attack them to a certain extent without invoking total anarchy(remember that Shueisha holds the most powerfuls series in the industry under it's arsenal).

Studio Ghibi said something similar though it was more along the lines of "we don;t care and we'll keep doing whatever it is we want"

Really though, the only fear in tis bill will be whether or not its actually enforced. There IS a possibility that this is just a political stunt and nothing much will change, but who knows. Either way Ishihara himself couldn;t decide what to attack even if the bill DOES pass. There's already a committee for that so if they don;t see the need to change much of anything than nothing will happen.

mcd693
December 14, 2010, 01:05 PM
Hey japan should take down their most loved giant gundam....because gundam had war and lots of deaths so they should ban it...

I'm going to japan and going to do a comic of 2 pages and have a stick figure kill the other, then i should get arrested. That is how silly this bill is.
I wonder how the japanese people feel about this silly bill. They would be pretty upset because anime/manga is big in their culture. It's like the govenment is taking candy away from a baby but in this case it's like people in teens, 20s and 30s getting their ps3 taken away.

Is any groups protesting this? Like common stuff that happens in anime is on tv in normal shows. These days i notice in PG movies they have death scenes and stuff.

@damura oh if it means its okay for people over 18 then its okay XD as long as they don't censor gantz and berserk. And as well as i can still get to see it.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I don't see miura pulling through this band. Statistically speaking miura already takes his sweet ass time releasing chapters. With government watchdogs all over his work(which is why he didn't want to continue the anime in the first place -> he didn't have enough control over the content)I just don't see him dancing to the government's tune. Plus I have a feeling that the second this ban goes through the newly empowered Tokyo government will crackdown on specific animes and mangas to deter other companies and set an example... If I was the government I would probably focus on the big names first...

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 01:15 PM
@mcd693: Based on your comments, is the reason for Miura taking lots of break because of government intervention? I didn't know about that.

Divinenega
December 14, 2010, 01:18 PM
I highly doubt they'll be going for the big names anytime soon, there's way too much risk involved Not to mention it would put a decent hole in the economy(Losing One Piece alone could cause that)). Once again though, it depends on which kinds of series their specifically gunning for. If they try to attack the mainstream stuff, then it WILL end badly. If their trying to go after the borderline stuff though, then the issue may be a bit harder to fight.

mcd693
December 14, 2010, 01:24 PM
@mcd693: Based on your comments, is the reason for Miura taking lots of break because of government intervention? I didn't know about that.

No. He takes breaks because he has a devoted cult like following of fans that will buy even if there are years between releases and because he's the epitome of an stubborn introvert.

All reasons why he's more likely to give up on Berserk if this ban goes through.(I'm not blaming him either. If I was working away on my dream and the government hated what I did then I would likely stop too.) lol. Reminds me of my brother, he did some stripping at bachelorette parties and birthdays a few months ago and got into a lil trouble with the law. Needless to say he's not stripping anymore.

Divinenega
December 14, 2010, 01:33 PM
It's not a flat out ban, it's a regulation. Of course the fear lies in how much of a crap the Youth Development Commitee(would would be the ones actually enforcing the bill not Ishihara) actually decides to give. It's quite possible that not much will change since the bill is vague, and therefore can be got around if done properly.

mcd693
December 14, 2010, 01:37 PM
It's not a flat out ban, it's a regulation. Of course the fear lies in how much of a crap the Youth Development Commitee(would would be the ones actually enforcing the bill not Ishihara) actually decides to give. It's quite possible that not much will change since the bill is vague, and therefore can be got around if done properly.

Man. You have to remind yourself that Tokyo is not in the land of the free. You'd be amazed at some of the things the government can and DO regularly.

Divinenega
December 14, 2010, 01:40 PM
I agree with you but at the same time not every law made is actually enforced, and this also applies to Japan. I of course don;t want this bill to pass but I don;t think everyone should be screaming "this is the end!!" until we know what the government will actually do as far as enforcement goes.

Divinenega
December 14, 2010, 01:46 PM
Really? I thought it was just them banning their anime line from the Tokyo Anime Fair.

mcd693
December 14, 2010, 01:46 PM
I agree with you but at the same time not every law made is actually enforced, and this also applies to Japan. I of course don;t want this bill to pass but I don;t think everyone should be screaming "this is the end!!" until we know what the government will actually do as far as enforcement goes.

Agreed. I do think that the purpose of the law is to enforce it though... I'm not screaming this is the end. lol. but i have a feeling it might be which is my personal opinion. I hope not, the same as you and will watch what happens over the next couple of weeks and months.

Divinenega
December 14, 2010, 01:52 PM
If it passes tomorrow, it's not supossed to actually be enforced until summer. Though some publishers are already afraid...

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 02:21 PM
It is confirmed that if the bill pass (and so far it is most likely), the enfrocement from government will begin at July of 2011.

When Kadokawa Shoten announced they'll boycott Anime Fair 2011, Ishihara commented as "do as whatever you guys want." But since 10 publishers announced they'll boycott too, I wonder the reaction of Ishihara going to be when he hears about that.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 02:24 PM
Really? I thought it was just them banning their anime line from the Tokyo Anime Fair.

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20101213-00000108-jij-soci

The first paragraph of article mensioned about Shueisha's announcement about their animation.

Divinenega
December 14, 2010, 02:29 PM
So it is just them refusing to particpate in the fair then.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 02:40 PM
So it is just them refusing to particpate in the fair then.

http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/topics/news/20101213-OHT1T00198.htm

Sorry, I misread it. The article from above had better explanation. It is about they informed animation production that don't release their animation on fair.

Crude
December 14, 2010, 03:00 PM
I'm confused. Will the publishers stop publishing everything they own or just manga?

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 03:05 PM
I'm confused. Will the publishers stop publishing everything they own or just manga?

This bill is only applicable for manga/animation, so it'll only affected on manga magazines.

I want to know the economic loss will occur in Tokyo, if:

1. Tokyo Anime Fair got cancelled
2. 10 publishers move to different city

Jaymie
December 14, 2010, 06:23 PM
I am for some aspects, and against others. This bill is much better than the "fictional character" bill that attempted to ban any sexual depiction of a character who appears to be under the age of 18.

I believe the main enemy in these matters are the publishers themselves. They're afraid that they will lose out on money if their ecchi series are given the 18+ label, so they're making a big ruckus out of this. And they will be the ones to censor their own series for the purpose of making more money (because it can be marketed to teenagers), not the government.

Negative Syndicate
December 14, 2010, 06:56 PM
Bsically, the bill is intended to protect youths from negative influences.

But, the main problem is whether the bill really aimed for better youths' health.

mcd693
December 14, 2010, 07:23 PM
I am for some aspects, and against others. This bill is much better than the "fictional character" bill that attempted to ban any sexual depiction of a character who appears to be under the age of 18.

I believe the main enemy in these matters are the publishers themselves. They're afraid that they will lose out on money if their ecchi series are given the 18+ label, so they're making a big ruckus out of this. And they will be the ones to censor their own series for the purpose of making more money (because it can be marketed to teenagers), not the government.

Uhm, artists need to get paid too. They're not making millions(you should not elude yourself into this belief. I am friends with many illustrators and they're not rolling in it) We(Tokyo especially) live in a capitalist economy. If you're hating on capitalism then get in line. BTW many of the ecchi series already have 18+ labels. This ban is not about, "rel-labeling" series(I feel like Im beginning to repeat myself) but straight up changing content and stonewalling projects.

No criminal depiction. In my eyes that is every manga I enjoy. An assault can be(grabbing, punching, swearing, threats, even dancing, spitting, and prodding). I don't like mangas for these reasons but without a substantial conflict which is dealt with by normal means with which to deal with conflict I doubt Im going to read the manga.

The wording is incredibly vague and my biggest concern is how closely this ban will be followed.

GAT-X252
December 14, 2010, 09:37 PM
Ok, guys before you get scared when you this see this link in 4chan or anywhere else....

http://www.gameinformer.com/blogs/members/b/sakabato24_blog/archive/2010/12/14/is-it-the-end-of-anime-and-manga-bill-156-passed.aspx

Check the source, it was posted yesterday, and that means it's just an article about the committe aproving the bill and not the results of the full assembly. Right now is 11:00 am, so we'll have to wait a little more to know the results.

Damura
December 14, 2010, 10:37 PM
NC 17 kiss of death for american movies.

No idea what that is.

Kaiten
December 14, 2010, 11:15 PM
NC-17 means not for children under 17, kids under 17 can't be admitted even with parental permission. Almost nothing has received that rating since it was created, the few that have bombed at the box office.

kanamechidori
December 15, 2010, 12:34 AM
Kaiten, it's actually the kiss of death because the movies aren't allowed in theatres where kids go to.

They are usually played only in arthouse cinema places not mainstream movie theatres.

You can't advertise for NC-17 movies on TV.



Publishers will be forced to censor their series 4 kids style if they aren't brave enough for an nc-17 style kiss of death.

Imagine how horrible Berserk would be if this law was in effect back in the day.

I think Miura would have quit altogether.

Would ANY go nagai anime survive?


Kouji Kabuto was kinda pervy in Mazinger Z. The panty stuff could be seen as sexual harrassment which could have gotten Mazinger Z banned. Getter Robo wouldn't have a chance. They said Youko was 14 in Tengen Toppen Gurren Lagann so no TTGL either.

This could be the death knell for good manga.

Negative Syndicate
December 15, 2010, 01:18 AM
Since the bill has passed, should I consider 2011 as beginning of 'Library War'?

Bomber D Rufi
December 15, 2010, 01:52 AM
Since the bill has passed, should I consider 2011 as beginning of 'Library War'?

It's on ANN too.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-12-15/full-tokyo-assembly-passes-youth-ordinance-bill

Ironically the article under that is about some young thieves naming themselves after (Detective) Conan's adversary the 'Kaito kid'.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2010-12-14/alleged-thieves-named-themselves-after-conan-anime


Maybe Ishihara is onto something.....(Just kidding.)

Divinenega
December 15, 2010, 08:08 AM
Relax people, not much is likely to chnage considering that everyone seems to be more or less continuing on with what they've been doing. The stuff that we're most likely to see a change in is the borderline hentai and incest related stuff.

mcd693
December 15, 2010, 11:04 AM
It's things like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J433fVv6vk8 that make me feel uncomfortable with what Tokyo censorship law have in mind.

Damura
December 15, 2010, 12:53 PM
Relax people, not much is likely to chnage considering that everyone seems to be more or less continuing on with what they've been doing. The stuff that we're most likely to see a change in is the borderline hentai and incest related stuff.

So a series like Berserk would be fucked then. Great.

The law isn't in effect yet. Artists will soon be under pressure to conform to these restrictions sooner or later.

Negative Syndicate
December 15, 2010, 12:57 PM
I'm getting confused, so let me straight out. Is the bill only aimed at 18+ manga/animation or all of age-group's manga/animation? I thought the bill is effective on all of manga/animation.

Roflkopt3r
December 15, 2010, 12:57 PM
So a series like Berserk would be fucked then. Great.

The law isn't in effect yet. Artists will soon be under pressure to conform to these restrictions sooner or later.

Hu? Fucked?
I think this means it has the choice to abandon a part of the younger readers and again showing sex and heavy violence - which pretty much didn't happen lately - or to remain as soft as it currently is.

mcd693
December 15, 2010, 02:29 PM
Hu? Fucked?
I think this means it has the choice to abandon a part of the younger readers and again showing sex and heavy violence - which pretty much didn't happen lately - or to remain as soft as it currently is.

I've heard berserk be called many things in my day, but soft is definitely new to me.
[hr]
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704098304576021092499410726.html

I found this article very informative.
[hr]
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704098304576021092499410726.html
[hr]
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704098304576021092499410726.html

Damura
December 16, 2010, 11:16 AM
Hu? Fucked?
I think this means it has the choice to abandon a part of the younger readers and again showing sex and heavy violence - which pretty much didn't happen lately - or to remain as soft as it currently is.

Abandon younger readers, or censor it. Rape, bestiality and sadism/masochism have been a large part of the manga so far. It's not the artist's intention to stop all of that.

I'm not sure what the age group for the magazine Berserk is published in is, but assuming it is sold to people under the age of 18 that magazine will have to choose whether to abandon the younger viewers or embrace the new standards. If they choose to keep their audience and follow the new law, anything involving rape, bdsm etc. will have to be censored or the artist will have to move to another publisher.

Negative Syndicate
December 16, 2010, 12:31 PM
Isn't Beserk already publised in seinen magazine? Berserk is currently serializing in Youn Animal (targetting audience above 18 years), so I'm not sure whether this regulation going to affect on Berserk.

I'm worried that this will going to affect on shonen series, but I agree that some shonen series do need some regulation.

mcd693
December 16, 2010, 02:11 PM
Isn't Beserk already publised in seinen magazine? Berserk is currently serializing in Youn Animal (targetting audience above 18 years), so I'm not sure whether this regulation going to affect on Berserk.

I'm worried that this will going to affect on shonen series, but I agree that some shonen series do need some regulation.

My feelings are that even if this ban doesn't affect berserk, miura will still use it as an excuse to take his sweet ass time between releases if he releases at all.

I also agree with your comment on shonen series.

Negative Syndicate
December 16, 2010, 04:04 PM
Does anyone know animation studios' perpective on this bill, and provide sources if possible? I heard lots of words from the publishers, but I didn't find any words from the animation studios.

Divinenega
December 16, 2010, 04:23 PM
Does anyone know animation studios' perpective on this bill, and provide sources if possible? I heard lots of words from the publishers, but I didn't find any words from the animation studios.

Shueisha has been moving forward with their anime projects and Sekion no Qwaser, which is borderline hentai, has been confirmed for a second season...yeah it's safe to say the anime studios will just keep on keeping on.

Sacto0562
December 18, 2010, 12:26 AM
It will be VERY interesting to see how Shueisha's Jump Square goes forward. Two series running in that anthology, Akihisa Ikeda's Rosario + Vampire Season II and Saki Hasemi's To Love-Ru Darkness, definitely crosses the line when it comes to this new law.

My guess right now is that Shueisha may re-classify Jump Square as an anthology for younger seinen readers (male readership 18-30) and require retailers to restrict sales to readers 18 and above.

Negative Syndicate
December 18, 2010, 12:33 AM
It will be VERY interesting to see how Shueisha's Jump Square goes forward. Two series running in that anthology, Akihisa Ikeda's Rosario + Vampire Season II and Saki Hasemi's To Love-Ru Darkness, definitely crosses the line when it comes to this new law.


I'm not sure about R+V will have big effect on regulation because it really doesn't have much sexual exploitations as compare to To Love-ru. It is rather more battle-oriented.

However, in To Love-Ru's case, maybe the author has to either reduce its exploitations or move to seinen magazine.

ChaosLegion
December 18, 2010, 03:04 PM
Pardon me if you think that what i'm about to say doesn't have much to do with the thread,but imho it's quiet related.
First,check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_1ObyG2-1Y) song.The group holds a world record (in the guinness book) for having the most amount of members and is fairly famous from what i read about it.
So...do you see the connection? You don't? Then let me explain my point of view:
If sexual content in manga and anime can harm the youth so does this song,but i don't see any law that will ban it.And i think that music with such a thematic could be more harmfull than manga and anime,cause it's a RL stuff.It aint no fiction...What would be more damaging for one young mind - a drawn corpse or a real one? It's obvious.
This censorship law is a pure attack against manga and anime.And the mayor should be taken down from his posicion.

Newkerzy
December 18, 2010, 11:12 PM
Well, this is interesting... (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2010-12-17/tokyo-governor/restricted-works-are-for-those-with-warped-dna)

The guy has gone completely gone over the line now. I'm sure mangakas are going to feel disgusted at him now.

mcd693
December 19, 2010, 09:48 AM
Well, this is interesting... (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2010-12-17/tokyo-governor/restricted-works-are-for-those-with-warped-dna)

The guy has gone completely gone over the line now. I'm sure mangakas are going to feel disgusted at him now.

was anyone else laughing hysterically by the end of this?

ChaosLegion
December 19, 2010, 11:52 AM
He then characterized people who read and write the restricted material as "sad people with warped DNA."

I feel personally offended now... :(


Well, this is interesting... (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2010-12-17/tokyo-governor/restricted-works-are-for-those-with-warped-dna)

The guy has gone completely gone over the line now. I'm sure mangakas are going to feel disgusted at him now.

Not only mangakas,but the fans as well.

Newkerzy
January 01, 2011, 11:53 AM
Dan Kanemitsu's analysis on the Bill. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2010-12-28)

tonyyao82
January 05, 2011, 04:35 PM
I posted my thoughts on the Bill as well.

http://www.mangatherapy.com/post/2609971604/youth-ordinance-bill

Honestly, this is just another bad case of the wrong types of people mishandling the issue of responsibility.

Then again, governments are known to do that from time to time.

Newkerzy
January 06, 2011, 12:43 AM
One big flaw in the bill is that it gives the government unilateral power without any control or whatsoever. If the bill had allowed 3rd parties to get involved, such as readers' associations, etc..... it probably would've been better. I'm all for the bill to be implemented but I won't accept it if it has fatal flaws in it.

tonyyao82
January 12, 2011, 02:28 PM
One big flaw in the bill is that it gives the government unilateral power without any control or whatsoever. If the bill had allowed 3rd parties to get involved, such as readers' associations, etc..... it probably would've been better. I'm all for the bill to be implemented but I won't accept it if it has fatal flaws in it.

I think there should be a regulation board. Though if the government tries to set one up, they might only allow uber-conservative members who abhor anime & manga. There probably won't be a mix.

The one thing that pisses me off about the bill is that the government never contacted the publishers or any other parties on input. Right now, there's no trust between the anime/manga industries & the government. No trust = bad results.

Newkerzy
January 13, 2011, 09:24 AM
Agreed. If they had, then the publishers wouldn't have taken such a strong opposition.

tonyyao82
January 13, 2011, 04:36 PM
Can we say that everyone is to blame for the situation? You can't just point fingers at one side completely.

Then again, there never was any love lost between both sides.

saladesu
January 21, 2011, 12:22 PM
Saw this in today's news...


In retaliation to the Tokyo City law for the healthy development of youths, that restricts the sale of sexually explicit manga and anime, adult mangaka Urashima Reiji (46) volunteered to shovel show on the 21st in Hokkaido's Yuubari City. Prefectural Governor Inose Naoki had posted a tweet on Twitter saying that he would grant Urashima an interview should he shovel snow in Yuubari City.

Urashima said that he wanted to meet Inose and speak with him, and Governor Inose said that he would honour his promise.

With some help from the Yuubari City Social Welfare Agency, Urashima began visiting elderly who were living alone and shoveling snow piled as high as 3 metres with the help of several people from the agency, starting from around 10am on the 21st.

In response to the laws that were laid down in December last year, the publishing world objected, saying that it restricted their freedom of expression. Governor Inose had tweeted on 5th December, "Shovel some snow, then come see me. If you do that, I'll grant you an interview". Thus, Urashima paid his visit to Yuubari City.

Urashima said, "There was absolutely no reason to amend the laws. I would like for my interview to be broadcast live on the internet."

Sponichi (jp) (http://www.sponichi.co.jp/society/news/2011/01/21/kiji/K20110121000092360.html)

I thought this was pretty funny. It was all over the Japanese news today :XD I hope this guy really gets his interview, and all the better if there is a live stream of it somewhere.

tonyyao82
January 21, 2011, 01:50 PM
Wow, go adult mangakas! And yes, it should be broadcast over the Internet. Then again, Japan might pull a Fractale and be like "NOOO! Thieves will pirate the interview and show it to the whole world!"

saladesu
January 21, 2011, 01:56 PM
Lol, it's not like Fractale is the first show to be pirated :ninja

But yes, that would be a good excuse not to do as Urashima asks. The problem with it not being a live broadcast is that the TV station or whoever can cut out portions that are problematic. Aka, more censorship. Ironically, I can really see that happening. Urashima can say what he likes to the governor, but anything overly extreme or whatsoever may be cut out of the broadcast. IF it even does get broadcast... :s

tonyyao82
January 21, 2011, 02:06 PM
That's what I'm saying in regards to Fractale, but that's another story.

But yeah, Urashima might be made to look bad in front of everyone, since he is a "adult mangaka". Sigh. We'll just have to see what happens.

Negative Syndicate
February 17, 2011, 10:02 PM
Ishihara, Tokyo governor, sended letters to 10 publishers for asking to participate on upcoming Tokyo Anime Fair (10 publishers announced that they'll boycott upcoming Tokyo Anime Fair for against Manga Cencorship Regulation).

Negative Syndicate
July 01, 2011, 08:26 AM
Everyone should remember that the manga regulation will start on this month. We should able to see whether the Tokyo government use this regulation properly or not.

kidopitz27
July 01, 2011, 09:06 AM
What are your thoughts about it? if there is already a thread for it please link it :)

Governor Ishihara’s initiative to rid Tokyo of depraved 2D filth has finally come into effect on the first of July, making it a crime to distribute any anime, manga or game the government deems “unhealthy” without consigning it to the same channels hardcore porn is distributed by.

In the best traditions of Japanese law making, the law itself is vague and its application is entirely in the hands of unaccountable civil servants and very nearly unaccountable politicians like Ishihara and his deputy Naoki Inose, both of whom have made their loathing for manga, anime and games no secret.

The law itself specifically targets (2D) content which “improperly glorifies or promotes illegal sexual activity,” a notably broad definition which Tokyo, for the time being at least, has clarified as specifically targeting “works depicting women enjoying being raped or incest as being fun.” It is widely expected that underage sexual activity (i.e. anything involving schoolgirls) is intended to be part of the ban in due course.

The actual scope of the law excludes novels (otherwise Ishihara would be in the unique position of banning his own novels, which feature lurid tales of underage rape) and photographic material. Although drafted with manga foremost in mind, it is also intended to cover anime and, in principle at least, also supplants Japan’s game censorship regime.

The letter of the law also suggests events such as Comiket are now technically illegal, and if permitted are only allowed to continue on government sufferance – at present the only thing supporting Comiket’s legality is a series of tweets by vice governor Inose in which he invents various legal arguments, such as that Comiket is in “festival space” and that doujinshi publishers are not actually “publishers” and so are not covered by the ordinance.

The law has already been ferociously criticised by mangaka and the publishing industry for its vagueness and indiscriminate nature, with many concerned that fear of the ban alone will cause nationwide “self-censorship” so as to avoid being shut out of the mainstream publishing industry.

Several high profile works, such as Akisora, have already been banned, but it is likely that the majority of the law’s effect will be from publishers quietly cancelling or declining to publish material they feel Ishihara might disapprove of, as some mangaka have already reported.

shaheer
July 02, 2011, 01:23 AM
Hmm well it must be some sort of Epidemic to act like that. i agree with the
“improperly glorifies or promotes illegal sexual activity,
i mean generally the porn culture is acting like a disease now a days. Its more like a drug. It causes major desensitization and many opt s for this implan and that which exacerbates ones condition a lot as after one runs out of all the option available extreme activities are the only activities what titilates one (due to desensitized mind) many rape s are actually inspired by these, as normal sex life becomes monotonous and many try to emulate the rape porns which (to them) seems fun. Tis is destroying married life and promoting child abuse. Internet is free now a days and the PG ratings instead of abstaining the kids rather makes them more inquisitive, the general increase of STD in the developing world like india and its underground increase in my place is a warning.
We dont know the situation of Japan to criticize the notion, may be its out of control there.
who knows
(all of em r my humble opinion as i dun like this industry and try to abstain from it as much as possible)

Zeltrax
July 04, 2011, 06:10 AM
Heard about this a while ago.
People on the interwebz were raging here and there when that law was announced :oh
Hopefully it will not be that big of a change but I can only hope.

Even if comiket gets approved, it will be very strict and alot of things will never be allowed.
Also, The thing is that the law is so vague that alot of stuff aren't confirmed yet but knowing Ishihara I'm sure he'll ban whatever he "sees or feel fit" to.

Obviously anime and manga won't disappear at once but the hentai and doujinshi industry will no doubt see alot of change.
Even anime that are aired during wee hours will have stricter rules/restriction and many anime genres will suffer.

I don't really like this new "rule" but I have to agree that some anime or manga really take it to the extreme which I dislike (incest, bro-sis love, too much ecchi).

Like I said, this won't change the industry all at once but eventually it will.

MattC302
July 08, 2011, 02:46 PM
When the next To-Love-Ru Darkness volume comes out, someone should check to see if it is shrink-wrapped or sold at the 18+ section of the bookstore. If so, we should see if that affects it's sales. If sales start getting affected, then we are in trouble. We will end up with just two extremes. Kid stuff and adult stuff with nothing in between.

Asarii
July 10, 2011, 01:15 AM
Merged the newer thread with the old.[hr]
Ishihara has a reputation of being unreasonable since he's noted for being racist and homophobic. I don't know why he's targeting fictional 2D characters when he should be going after the exploitation of actual underage gravure models instead.

Personally I wouldn't be crying over the possible loss of hentai and doujinshi, but I do find it ridiculous that novels are left out of the equation just because he wrote some questionable stories himself. What a hypocrite. :mad

Samui
July 10, 2011, 02:12 AM
So what exactly is going to happen now to... say, Gantz?

Asarii
July 10, 2011, 02:19 AM
So what exactly is going to happen now to... say, Gantz?

If I'm understanding correctly, it might get treated as a R-18 work. (Don't quote me on this since this whole situation is a jumble of mess.) It'll still be legal to purchase it, but it will be made very difficult for minors to get a hand on a tankobon. Gantz is published from Young Jump, which is a mainstream and respectable magazine so it should still be fine... I think.

If I'm wrong please correct me.