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gunsmoke69
January 10, 2011, 10:43 PM
Well this has been a question on my mind for quite some time now and i always wondered if luffy would become stronger than what roger was back in the old days..Luffy is gonna pawn blackbeard at the end of one piece to take the title... Blackbeard has the most devastating and strongest devil fruit powers rite now so im guessing hes gonna be stronger than whitebeard or roger back in their prime...wont it mean that if luffy beats him he surpasses every1 including roger?? well these r just my assumptions... wat do you guyz think??

Ninja_Pirate
January 10, 2011, 10:54 PM
I love one piece since there is no new generation surpassing the previous one here .. and i presume that there are lot of people here who dont even agree with black beard be the final villain of the series.

In one piece each generation had its own pirate and there is no way the two can be compared, until and unleass roger rise up from the dead and fight luffy head on .. because if u take it the other way , luffy has already defeated shiki as per the movie goes.... while shiki had a neck to neck fight with roger in his prime. So i think that comparison is not worth [:)]

gunsmoke69
January 11, 2011, 12:41 AM
I love one piece since there is no new generation surpassing the previous one here .. and i presume that there are lot of people here who dont even agree with black beard be the final villain of the series.

In one piece each generation had its own pirate and there is no way the two can be compared, until and unleass roger rise up from the dead and fight luffy head on .. because if u take it the other way , luffy has already defeated shiki as per the movie goes.... while shiki had a neck to neck fight with roger in his prime. So i think that comparison is not worth [:)]

Yeah uve got a point overder but when shiki fought luffy it was 20 years later. He definetly got alot weaker than wat he was wen he fought roger man and on top of it he didnt ave his normal legs. Well im not saying tat ur wrong but whitebeard who posessed the gura gura no mi power fought on equal grounds wid roger... blackbeard has now obtained tat terrific power now nd since he alredy has his darkness power which reduces everything to nothing dont u think he's surpassed whitebeard.

Dekker
January 11, 2011, 06:50 AM
We have no idea how strong Roger was. He tied with whitebeared in his prime and we only saw whitebeared at his deathbed at the end. No way we can tell right now how strong he was and that makes it hard to say, if he will surpass roger.

Naruffy
January 11, 2011, 04:31 PM
We can't really tell, but by the end of the series he would have to either surpass or equal roger, IMO

Ninja_Pirate
January 12, 2011, 12:45 AM
Yeah uve got a point overder but when shiki fought luffy it was 20 years later. He definetly got alot weaker than wat he was wen he fought roger man and on top of it he didnt ave his normal legs. Well im not saying tat ur wrong but whitebeard who posessed the gura gura no mi power fought on equal grounds wid roger... blackbeard has now obtained tat terrific power now nd since he alredy has his darkness power which reduces everything to nothing dont u think he's surpassed whitebeard.

As we have seen in many cases that the fights in one piece is more about strategies and surroundings rather then the crude power except for some fights (eg Ace BB, Luffy Lucci etc) which had direct collision... and with his darkness power we have already seen hw BB got pawned by WB (who ofcoz was old, injured..half face blown) ...

Once croc mentioned that its not abt the DF power u have but it is about hw well you use them... ofcoz BB had 2 years to improve on that but again .. no one knows roger's real power(only haki or sme DF .. swords etc) .. again i dnt see any comparison here .. its a new era .. new opponents..
its like how in movie rocky baboa (movie 6) current heavy weight champion was compared with the Rocky in his prime...

Jorge D. Dragon
January 12, 2011, 07:34 AM
I think Luffy will deffinetly surpass Roger not only in terms of power, but also he will survive after becoming Pirate King. In the end he may be one of the leaders who will overthrow the World Government.:)
So also I think that Zoro and Sanji will surpass Roger's first and second mate.:)

RezzieThaRapper
January 13, 2011, 11:43 AM
I suspect Luffy is just right under Reyleigh in terms of power, I bet he is closing the gap between him and the bignames as every chapter goes by.

Luffy is here to rule the seas, he'll have to become greater than anybody ever.

shinsengumi
January 13, 2011, 11:51 AM
As we have seen in many cases that the fights in one piece is more about strategies and surroundings rather then the crude power except for some fights

i thought that was naruto :blink could you give me an example of a strategic fight please ?

RezzieThaRapper
January 13, 2011, 12:11 PM
i thought that was naruto :blink could you give me an example of a strategic fight please ?

Nami & Usopp are strategic fighters...

Luffy isn't strategic but he is adaptive...

Sanji is rather strategic as well...

One of Choppers abilities revolve off of finding a weakness in a opponents offense or defense

Lucci was strategically evil, killed people just so there would be no more hostages, and tried to kill all of Luffy's friends just to break him down emotionally as well as physically

Mihawk's swordsman ship revolves around observation

The Whitebeard War Saga had massive strategies

does this answer your question???

shinsengumi
January 13, 2011, 08:28 PM
^ your examples dont change the fact that in OP characters with crude powers ( admirals ,vice admirals , shichibukai , yonkou , new world captains ,new world vice captians , garp , dragon , magellan , BB , ace ,enel etc etc etc ) will hardly lose to characters from lower tiers no matter what the strategy is .
even in the war saga there was strategy for most parts but in the end whitebeard stood up to the whole opposing army alone . power in OP is everything unless there is bad-matching in abilities ( luffy vs enel ) and strategy is just a middle-tier habbit . its incomparable to naruto in that fashion

RezzieThaRapper
January 13, 2011, 08:39 PM
you didn't ask that though... you asked where in One Piece was strategy used... I answered that question quite nicely...

No strategy is going to work on some one like them, that's true... But Tiers can be climbed overtime in One Piece just like Naruto... and If you can name me anyone from Naruto's "Lower Tiers" who can beat someone like (Madara, Itachi, Kisame, Tsunade, and Kage, any Akatsuki Member) if you squeeze anyone besides Shikamaru (who defeated Hidan) out then I'd like to see a page # with a link

gunsmoke69
January 14, 2011, 05:06 AM
Although luffy's power has increased dramatically over the past 2 years he still has a longgggg way to go before he can challenge blackbeard or any other strong rival at the end of one piece. Right now he must be at the strongest vice admirals level or maybe a lil higher. I just hope luffy meets akainu in the next arc or so and crushes him. It would be so cool if luffy obtains the power needed to take on all 3 admirals togetther but i highly doubt tat :P. Then again u never know how strong oda might make him.

shinsengumi
January 14, 2011, 06:24 AM
you didn't ask that though... you asked where in One Piece was strategy used... I answered that question quite nicely...

No strategy is going to work on some one like them, that's true... But Tiers can be climbed overtime in One Piece just like Naruto... and If you can name me anyone from Naruto's "Lower Tiers" who can beat someone like (Madara, Itachi, Kisame, Tsunade, and Kage, any Akatsuki Member) if you squeeze anyone besides Shikamaru (who defeated Hidan) out then I'd like to see a page # with a link

first of all , thanks for your previous answer and explaining . i didnt mean to turn this into a discussion (since its quite off-topic) but you have also missed the reason why i asked that question . a post above said that " its about strategy instead of crude power as seen in many cases " and i just asked a scene " where strategy could beat crude power ? " , that was my real question , or at least what i tried to imply


konohamaru vs hell realm pain is the best example . a villian beaten by a child with just strategy . something like that can never happen in OP imo

Cizuz
January 18, 2011, 03:09 PM
first of all , thanks for your previous answer and explaining . i didnt mean to turn this into a discussion (since its quite off-topic) but you have also missed the reason why i asked that question . a post above said that " its about strategy instead of crude power as seen in many cases " and i just asked a scene " where strategy could beat crude power ? " , that was my real question , or at least what i tried to imply


konohamaru vs hell realm pain is the best example . a villian beaten by a child with just strategy . something like that can never happen in OP imo

Best example? Enel. Enel is someone who would be admiral level or a pirate with at least a bounty of 500 million as confirmed by oda, he has a super strong fruit, intangibility, can read movements of anyone within 50 km radius, and his attacks are so overpowered he can kill nearly anyone in a single attack. Luffy lucked out with being rubber, or else he would not of won. Not only that but even with that fact enel still found a way to beat down luffy using aftereffects of his fruit(electricity to melt gold etc), till luffy finally won.

Crocodile, luffy using water then blood to solidify his fruit.

Ussop besting number(4?) and nami constantly winning not with strengh but strat~.

Sanji is always behind the scenes looking for ways to sabotage.

Zoro is the classic all out battle decided in one crude hit whoever is stronger wins.

Hell almost every fight took a lot of thinking. Fighting OZ, assaulting Enis Lobby and technically even luffy making gear second can be seen as the underdog trying anything to win. He see CP9s technics and the only way he could find a way to win was to essentially copy and adapt them for himself(gear second and third) otherwise there was no chance, and even with them they barely lost.

I mean I like naruto and bleach, read them weekly. They were awesome when they started out, became shit over time, kinda started getting better in last year or so. One Piece is so consistant and everything is new from arc to arc and Oda came up with a way that he can vary his arcs great deal without plot holes thanks to the fucked up weather in grand line. So he can change the setting and have it make sense, from winter islands to summer islands to thirller bark, enis lobby, the red line, the countless islands, screwed up weather, the log posts, fishman island. He mixes silly with fun, adventure with design and inventive beyond belief. That is what makes One Piece the greatest manga, not that it sold the most manga copies of any book let alone manga ever sold in Japan(which it did), and not because the fanbase seems much more down to earth, don't take things seriously and don't flip out or call other series down. It's because the person behind the magic knows what we like, and knows exactly how to tell a fun story. It is a series that it truly feels i'm along with the adventure. During Naruto I feel Naruto will always just pull the old nine tails card, but I have to admit some of my favorite fights are in naruto, and the begining up till episode 60 of bleach is amazing. Otherwise the shows feel empty to me, random plotkai.

See Oda can pull surprises from any angle, and you know eventually strawhats will win, but in some cases they lose... Sometimes they win... Sometimes they come out half alive, sometimes nearly dead. Sometimes they get utterlly destroied. It feels like a real story, when suspense comes it might actually be something bad happening. Hard to explain.

exacta
January 18, 2011, 04:59 PM
Well im not saying tat ur wrong but whitebeard who posessed the gura gura no mi power fought on equal grounds wid roger... blackbeard has now obtained tat terrific power now nd since he alredy has his darkness power which reduces everything to nothing dont u think he's surpassed whitebeard.

I don't know if we can really say Blackbeard surpassed Whitebeard. Like Crocodile said, a pirate who relies only on DF powers would never make Shichibukai status, so I'd assume that is even more true for Yonkou. Plus, thought I havent read the chapter in a looooong time, I'm pretty sure after Blackbeard used Kurouzu Whitebeard just punched him and he was begging for mercy lol.

At the time Roger fought Whitebeard, Whitebeard was probably alot stronger too and healthier. It was like 20 years ago afterall. And we don't even know what kind of power Roger had, something I'm kinda curious about. I don't doubt that he was a haki user, but did he have a DF power too??? Did he fight with a weapon???I hope one day in some kind of flashback Oda shows us.

@ Cizuz I don't think One Piece is the greatest or perfect manga....granted I'm not really sure what I would say IS, but theres plot holes, and there have been arcs that bored the death out of me til at least the last few chapters*cough* thriller bark *cough*. Sometimes I wish Oda's story wasn't so huge so I wouldn't have to wait years just to see characters like the Whitebeard Pirates or the Admirals in action lol. We still haven't met Kaidou or Big Mama......and theres higher ups we don't even know about....and were on chapter 610 lol.

Omnion_1990
January 18, 2011, 11:03 PM
I don't know if we can really say Blackbeard surpassed Whitebeard. Like Crocodile said, a pirate who relies only on DF powers would never make Shichibukai status, so I'd assume that is even more true for Yonkou. Plus, thought I havent read the chapter in a looooong time, I'm pretty sure after Blackbeard used Kurouzu Whitebeard just punched him and he was begging for mercy lol.

At the time Roger fought Whitebeard, Whitebeard was probably alot stronger too and healthier. It was like 20 years ago afterall. And we don't even know what kind of power Roger had, something I'm kinda curious about. I don't doubt that he was a haki user, but did he have a DF power too??? Did he fight with a weapon???I hope one day in some kind of flashback Oda shows us.

@ Cizuz I don't think One Piece is the greatest or perfect manga....granted I'm not really sure what I would say IS, but theres plot holes, and there have been arcs that bored the death out of me til at least the last few chapters*cough* thriller bark *cough*. Sometimes I wish Oda's story wasn't so huge so I wouldn't have to wait years just to see characters like the Whitebeard Pirates or the Admirals in action lol. We still haven't met Kaidou or Big Mama......and theres higher ups we don't even know about....and were on chapter 610 lol.

its been hinted on numerous occasions that he fought with a sword and gun. the old fashioned way aside from fisty cuffs.

MaiSiaoSiao
January 19, 2011, 07:44 AM
Then Roger most probably is a Haki user.I cant think of anyway you can hurt/tie someone with the strongest paramecia fruit with pure brute strength.
And on topic.
Like someone said we cant compare someone who is dead to someone who is alive and kicking.Unless the dead comes back to life and fight with the living.

So we should stop comparing them both.They both have their own uniqueness and "aura"

jorped
January 19, 2011, 08:05 AM
i think so, luffy apparently now control the all 3 types of haki so he can hit logia users and i think that he probably has done more in this 2 years that just training haki , maybe we are going to see soon a new gear :)

gunsmoke69
January 28, 2011, 04:23 AM
i think so, luffy apparently now control the all 3 types of haki so he can hit logia users and i think that he probably has done more in this 2 years that just training haki , maybe we are going to see soon a new gear :)

That would be cool if he has a new gear. We still need to see the full extent of his gear 2nd and 3rd since we have seen so little yet we all know tat hes tremendously strong.

MaiSiaoSiao
January 28, 2011, 07:26 AM
Lol see-ing now that he can switch on G2 on any part of his body.Maybe during battle.He could move G2 to any part of his body in an instant.And G3 i think we've seen pretty much everything that can be used.The arms and legs.But maybe he found a way not to shrink after using it though.
Was hoping that he could combine both G2 and G3 and use it.
"Gomu Gomu No Jet gigant Pistol" lol i'd like to see the reaction of whoever gonna take that punch.

Syzerd
January 28, 2011, 07:44 AM
Roger was the strongest back in his days and thats why he conquered the GL and started the Golden Age of Pirates, so if Luffy is the next one to conquer the GL, he need to be the strongest of this great era.

Being the golden age of pirates now, there are more pirates today than in the old days, so being the strongest is more difficult than back in roger days, so having that in mind when Luffy becomes the PK he already have surprassed roger imo.

But thats not all, we all can see that roger wanted to do something after reaaching Raftel that he couldn't because of his health condition, so if Luffy can finish what roger was trying to do, thats obviously that Luffy went further than roger.

Lord Rayleigh
January 30, 2011, 04:50 PM
Lol see-ing now that he can switch on G2 on any part of his body.Maybe during battle.He could move G2 to any part of his body in an instant.And G3 i think we've seen pretty much everything that can be used.The arms and legs.But maybe he found a way not to shrink after using it though.
Was hoping that he could combine both G2 and G3 and use it.
"Gomu Gomu No Jet gigant Pistol" lol i'd like to see the reaction of whoever gonna take that punch.
I think that actually we are far from having seen everything from Gear 3. Until now, Gear 3 was only used to upgrade classical attacks, hence the title Gigant with the attacks. With the 2 year time skip, Luffy has mastered the control of Gear 3 and can now better choose where he wants to keep the air inside his body. That gives him many more opportunities, which are not possible with his normal Gear. Indeed, remember the Elephant Gun during the underwater travel.

jamarTheDem
January 30, 2011, 05:53 PM
I think luffy came up with a G4 or G1 all ready. Like Turning his arm into a sharp rubber sword by using Haki So he can fight a swordman evenly. or turning his nails into rubber bullets.

gunsmoke69
January 30, 2011, 09:07 PM
Well if he can use gear 2 and 3 together then that would be amazing. I really hope he has sumthing up his sleeve that surprises every1 who watches 1 piece.

elitefox
February 01, 2011, 04:48 AM
Well for sure, he really needs more power than of a yonkou to turn the world arround and lead the nation to its golden age

Haynes
February 15, 2011, 05:58 PM
Roger was the strongest back in his days and thats why he conquered the GL and started the Golden Age of Pirates, so if Luffy is the next one to conquer the GL, he need to be the strongest of this great era.

Being the golden age of pirates now, there are more pirates today than in the old days, so being the strongest is more difficult than back in roger days, so having that in mind when Luffy becomes the PK he already have surprassed roger imo.

But thats not all, we all can see that roger wanted to do something after reaaching Raftel that he couldn't because of his health condition, so if Luffy can finish what roger was trying to do, thats obviously that Luffy went further than roger.

Just because there are more pirates in this era doesn't mean it's harder. It just means there's more fodder (zing!).

I don't like the whole "Luffy surpasses Roger" line of thinking. Because it's not possible to have the two fight. Even if it was possible, if Luffy won it doesn't mean he surpassed Roger. Luffy just want's to be a free man who can roam the sea.

J1nsan
February 15, 2011, 06:30 PM
Well this has been a question on my mind for quite some time now and i always wondered if luffy would become stronger than what roger was back in the old days..Luffy is gonna pawn blackbeard at the end of one piece to take the title... Blackbeard has the most devastating and strongest devil fruit powers rite now so im guessing hes gonna be stronger than whitebeard or roger back in their prime...wont it mean that if luffy beats him he surpasses every1 including roger?? well these r just my assumptions... wat do you guyz think??

I personally don't believe that Blackbeard necessarily has the strongest devil fruit because devil fruits don't always mean you're the strongest. Luffy has been a devil fruit user for over half his life and he still wasn't able to defeat Ace before he had devil fruit powers. I believe that devil fruits don't always mean you're the best/greatest; another example would be Enel. He was a character who was dubbed a god in Skypeia because how effective his ability was on the island.

There is also no necessary statement saying who's stronger than who but subtle hints as to who's at what level. I mean, Oda even gives titles to people who are on another level compared to people. The Yonkou are clearly the strongest pirates in the present time from one of many things so far.
1. The marines are afraid to touch them.
2. They rule the New World
3. Shanks' and Whitebeard's clash split the skies, which no one has ever done yet and that already says enough in terms of who's at level in terms of ability.
Seeing all of this stuff leaves me to believe that Roger didn't have a devil fruit. I know there's no proof that he did or didn't but I think by letting Rogers have a devil fruit ability would weaken his legendary status as the pirate king. It would also kind of take away from Garp since he doesn't have a devil fruit and they both were rivals/friends.

In the end I'm not sure if Luffy can surpass Roger in power but he will definitely make his own strength known and acknowledged since the old age had definitely given their nod to Luffy leading the new age. Oda's progression has led the series in a way that ends the chapter of an old era and leads its way to a new era so there really isn't a reason or purpose to argue which era had the strongest pirates or who will surpass who but more as to who will carry the torch of the pirate essence. I think Luffy will overcome Blackbeard in the future but for him to have the strength comparable to the people of the past like Rogers, Whitebeard, Garp, Sengoku, Shanks, or Rayleighs when he does? I don't think so. Ace almost was able to defeat Blackbeard when they fought but he had the disadvantage of not knowing Blackbeard's true abilities and that gave him a handicap. I guess what I'm saying is absolute power isn't truly needed to overcome enemies and that's been shown throughout the series.
[hr]

I think that actually we are far from having seen everything from Gear 3. Until now, Gear 3 was only used to upgrade classical attacks, hence the title Gigant with the attacks. With the 2 year time skip, Luffy has mastered the control of Gear 3 and can now better choose where he wants to keep the air inside his body. That gives him many more opportunities, which are not possible with his normal Gear. Indeed, remember the Elephant Gun during the underwater travel.

I agree, Oda usually shows an aftermath panel of Luffy reverting to a kid after using Gear 3 and he clearly had no side effects when using the Elephant gun technique in Gear 3 underwater. So Luffy has most likely mastered Gear 3 now.
[hr]

Best example? Enel. Enel is someone who would be admiral level or a pirate with at least a bounty of 500 million as confirmed by oda, he has a super strong fruit, intangibility, can read movements of anyone within 50 km radius, and his attacks are so overpowered he can kill nearly anyone in a single attack. Luffy lucked out with being rubber, or else he would not of won. Not only that but even with that fact enel still found a way to beat down luffy using aftereffects of his fruit(electricity to melt gold etc), till luffy finally won.

Crocodile, luffy using water then blood to solidify his fruit.

Ussop besting number(4?) and nami constantly winning not with strengh but strat~.

Sanji is always behind the scenes looking for ways to sabotage.

Zoro is the classic all out battle decided in one crude hit whoever is stronger wins.

Hell almost every fight took a lot of thinking. Fighting OZ, assaulting Enis Lobby and technically even luffy making gear second can be seen as the underdog trying anything to win. He see CP9s technics and the only way he could find a way to win was to essentially copy and adapt them for himself(gear second and third) otherwise there was no chance, and even with them they barely lost.

I mean I like naruto and bleach, read them weekly. They were awesome when they started out, became shit over time, kinda started getting better in last year or so. One Piece is so consistant and everything is new from arc to arc and Oda came up with a way that he can vary his arcs great deal without plot holes thanks to the fucked up weather in grand line. So he can change the setting and have it make sense, from winter islands to summer islands to thirller bark, enis lobby, the red line, the countless islands, screwed up weather, the log posts, fishman island. He mixes silly with fun, adventure with design and inventive beyond belief. That is what makes One Piece the greatest manga, not that it sold the most manga copies of any book let alone manga ever sold in Japan(which it did), and not because the fanbase seems much more down to earth, don't take things seriously and don't flip out or call other series down. It's because the person behind the magic knows what we like, and knows exactly how to tell a fun story. It is a series that it truly feels i'm along with the adventure. During Naruto I feel Naruto will always just pull the old nine tails card, but I have to admit some of my favorite fights are in naruto, and the begining up till episode 60 of bleach is amazing. Otherwise the shows feel empty to me, random plotkai.

See Oda can pull surprises from any angle, and you know eventually strawhats will win, but in some cases they lose... Sometimes they win... Sometimes they come out half alive, sometimes nearly dead. Sometimes they get utterlly destroied. It feels like a real story, when suspense comes it might actually be something bad happening. Hard to explain.

You brought up a great point man. That's what I was getting at, pure strength isn't necessarily the way to win in the One Piece world and the aforementioned examples clearly proved it. Usopp and Nami were by far the weakest characters, which I'm not sure of now because of the time skip, but they still managed to win. Luffy even lost to Usopp before because of the reject dial when Luffy is clearly stronger than Usopp in almost all aspects.

I also agree with the statement about Naruto and Bleach. There's currently no consistency like One Piece and I'm disappointed as a fan. I'll just leave it at that since this is a thread about One Piece.

arynelson
February 15, 2011, 06:35 PM
the last time luffy saw rayleigh he sad "im going to make it"...and it appears to me that ray with knowledge of luffys actual power believed so...he even cried...
We can conclude that if he is not really at an youkon level hes gona make it, do to rayleighs reaction...

Jorge D. Dragon
February 17, 2011, 11:32 AM
Luffy can really surpass Roger in power due to his devastating DF and his enormous Haki that is growing even more after the serious fights. Luffy's Elefant Gun attack was one of the strongest attacks in the whole manga and took down Kraken that was several times bigger than a ship in one blow.:) And I think he didn't even shown his best, so of course to reach Raftel and to become the freest man in the world he needs to become the strongest being able to surpass Roger.:)

Uriel
February 17, 2011, 11:49 AM
First...Well, to become a Pirate King He should surpass him.

Second..We don't know a thing about Roger's powers. :/

Jorge D. Dragon
February 17, 2011, 01:21 PM
LordUriel
We know that he was on par or stronger than WB, hence we know at least mas or menos where he was on the power scale.:)

Uriel
February 17, 2011, 06:09 PM
LordUriel
We know that he was on par or stronger than WB, hence we know at least mas or menos where he was on the power scale.:)
We should consider that Whitebeard as we saw it was quite defeated by not only time but a disease.

Maybe Garp is a good indication of his power...

Jorge D. Dragon
February 18, 2011, 03:32 AM
LordUriel
Anyway we can at least understand that if that WB was way from his best, we can understand the level of Roger's power.:) Cause he was better or on par with WB at his best.:) So we can safely assume that Roger could have taken from one up to two Admirals at his prime, cause I actually see WB doing this without his decease and age.:)

Immo
February 18, 2011, 04:40 AM
I think Luffy has unlimited potential:
- He is light immune and can combinate his attack with lightning (see 10th movie).
- He has King's Haki and can combinate his attack with that. He also is phisycal damage immune because of his rubber body.
- He can become extremly fast because of his gear 2nd and improve it till his speed get's close to speed of sound or even light so he can avoid almost everything.
- He is close and range fighter.
- He isn't afraid of anything and is fighting till his body is able to
- He is pretty smart while fighting and takes opponent seriously
- He has dream so his motivation is strong enough to face anybody

The only limit of his power is his body and health, but if you ask me if you put every character in time capsule for 100 years including Roger, Whitebeard etc i bet Luffy will leave capsule as strongest, not only because of his DF potential

Shuusui
February 18, 2011, 11:30 AM
Well this has been a question on my mind for quite some time now and i always wondered if luffy would become stronger than what roger was back in the old days..Luffy is gonna pawn blackbeard at the end of one piece to take the title... Blackbeard has the most devastating and strongest devil fruit powers rite now so im guessing hes gonna be stronger than whitebeard or roger back in their prime...wont it mean that if luffy beats him he surpasses every1 including roger?? well these r just my assumptions... wat do you guyz think??

bb isn't strong like that, he defeated by wb so easily ,
and whitebeard 72 years old with half face + many deadly wounds,
even this conditions he defeated blackbeard so easily
in the past ; wb 45-50 and roger 30-40 , they are equals
i think old ones very strong if we compare with this age

Anduren
February 18, 2011, 02:00 PM
I've been getting the feeling that when Luffy finally ends up fighting Blackbeard he's going to steal Luffy's Rubber ability permanently the same way he did with Whitebeard. Either way, Blackbeard can make Luffy's devil fruit useless in a fight so Luffy is not only going to have to fight and defeat Blackbeard, but he has to do it without being able to use Gear 2 or 3. I could be wrong since we don't know much of anything about what Gol D. Roger had to do to overcome the grand line, but I'd go out on a limb and say he didn't have to fight anyone who had two of the most dangerous devil fruit abilities with the handicap of being a hammer in the water.

As far as ambition and conviction goes (taking physical strength aside), I think Luffy and Gol D. Roger will be equal. This is what Shanks and Rayleigh noticed when they saw him. Those kinds of qualities don't really get stronger over time, only reinforced or discouraged through experience.

frontaLobotomy
February 19, 2011, 08:06 PM
While not taking anything away from Roger's own strength, I think Luffy will have to surpass him in terms of power if he's to make it to the top. I'm only basing this on Luffy's ultimate rival being Blackbeard. While Whitebeard was no pushover, Teach not only has two abilities, he's also someone who carries a D.

There's also the factor of having to go one better than one's own superiors. I'm not saying that becoming Pirate King was any less difficult when Roger earned the title, but by mentioning One Piece, he created an age that acted as a huge motivator for aspiring pirates to match. You could say that he's daring someone to surpass him, as he did not use whatever it was he learned at Raftel to change the world. When Luffy and his crew get there, I feel that they will use that to bring about the change that Whitebeard foreshadowed before his death.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 20, 2011, 04:48 AM
frontaLobotomy
According to Whitebeard it seems that Teach isn't actually one of "D". WB said that BB isn't one of those Roger is waiting for. Also BB is coward and all "D" smile before death.

J1nsan
February 22, 2011, 05:22 AM
- He can become extremly fast because of his gear 2nd and improve it till his speed get's close to speed of sound or even light so he can avoid almost everything.


He's clearly even surpassed the speed he had from Gear 2 since the time skip. He dodged a Pacifista's light beam attack, which is based on Kizaru's own light beam attack; and we know Kizaru, from what he says, can kick/attack at the speed of light. So the Pacifista's attacks must be on par or at least near the speed and destructiveness of Kizaru's own attacks. So since the time skip Luffy commented on how slow the Pacifista's beam verbally and physically, all the while being in his normal state, is and then attacked soon after with Gear 2.

LeidenReloaded
February 22, 2011, 05:48 AM
Well i guess Luffy doesnt has to surpass Roger in terms of Power. He said it himself "the most free person on the Grand Line will be Pirate King." And we know that he is welcome on every Island the were on the Grand Line (except WhiskyPeak but that didnt count). Also Mihawk notices that its not his DF or Strenght that make him powerful. Its his ability to make everyone his Ally. Even his older enemies. I mean lets face it he has the Giants of Elbav on his side, WB Allies, Maybe BigMom (we all guess its Lolas Mum), and im sure there will be many more. Not his strenght will count in the end when he faces the WG their 100years Void History (or what you call it^^). The number of Allies in the world will help him to set free the Truth about "D" and the dark history of the WG.

gunsmoke69
March 19, 2011, 04:50 AM
He's clearly even surpassed the speed he had from Gear 2 since the time skip. He dodged a Pacifista's light beam attack, which is based on Kizaru's own light beam attack; and we know Kizaru, from what he says, can kick/attack at the speed of light. So the Pacifista's attacks must be on par or at least near the speed and destructiveness of Kizaru's own attacks. So since the time skip Luffy commented on how slow the Pacifista's beam verbally and physically, all the while being in his normal state, is and then attacked soon after with Gear 2.

I doubt hes on an admirals level right now. You cannot compare a pacifista to kizaru. Did u c kizarus attacks on HQ... its way more destructive than a pacifistas attack.... kizaru was the only admiral who didnt get any injuries during the war even aftr facing whitebeard and the other pirates... I'm not saying hes the strongest but my point is that luffy still has to get stronger if he wants to be on that level.. They have just crossed half of the grand line... Theres still a longgg way too go before he reaches raftel and conquers the whole grandline.. He has plenty of time to catch up and become the strongest. Im very interested in seeing how much he has improved over the past couple of years... i cud be wrong bout him not being on an admirals level... He cud surprise me wid a new gear or mayb a perfected gear 2 or 3. its just my opinion

Ninja_Pirate
March 21, 2011, 02:15 AM
He's clearly even surpassed the speed he had from Gear 2 since the time skip. He dodged a Pacifista's light beam attack, which is based on Kizaru's own light beam attack; and we know Kizaru, from what he says, can kick/attack at the speed of light. So the Pacifista's attacks must be on par or at least near the speed and destructiveness of Kizaru's own attacks. So since the time skip Luffy commented on how slow the Pacifista's beam verbally and physically, all the while being in his normal state, is and then attacked soon after with Gear 2.

Yes, undoubtedly luffy has surpassed his previous speed and for him Lucci might now be a soft toy to play with .. But i am sure that oda will not make him move with speed of light (considering a lil physics) .. although yes he did dodge pacifista attack since there is a time delay in which pacifista charge up and fire laser... as we can see their previous encounter in which also luffy has been shown dodging the laser attacks from pacifista..

As far as kizaru is concerned i think he also has some time delay to convert into light from his physical form( i think it has been discussed before on forum) .. As we have seen Rayleigh to counter his movement during SA arc...

gunsmoke69
October 09, 2013, 02:39 AM
Luffy is still no where near the top. The more we see his strength, the more we see how strong the big names are in the new world. Doflamingo is definitely stronger than him not to mention Kaidou who is on a completely different level. As for luffys current level, I hardly believe he is capable of beating even doflamingo

MBVC
October 09, 2013, 02:47 PM
I doubt hes on an admirals level right now. You cannot compare a pacifista to kizaru. Did u c kizarus attacks on HQ... its way more destructive than a pacifistas attack.... kizaru was the only admiral who didnt get any injuries during the war even aftr facing whitebeard and the other pirates... I'm not saying hes the strongest but my point is that luffy still has to get stronger if he wants to be on that level.. They have just crossed half of the grand line... Theres still a longgg way too go before he reaches raftel and conquers the whole grandline.. He has plenty of time to catch up and become the strongest. Im very interested in seeing how much he has improved over the past couple of years... i cud be wrong bout him not being on an admirals level... He cud surprise me wid a new gear or mayb a perfected gear 2 or 3. its just my opinion


I completely disagree about Luffy movement close to light speed, I remember both Sanji and Zoro also destroyed a PX robot easily. Did they have to move close to speed of light in order to do that? I don't think so, PX robots can shoot out laser but their movements aren't fast at all, even those above average NW pirates destroyed some PX machines without much effort. Only Kizaru is able to move at light speed but all of his attacks take time to gather light energy before shooting out, of course this must be his only weakness for the plot, otherwise he's #1 strongest because no one can match his extreme speed in order to attack him or defend against him.