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View Full Version : Zan Tech Ichigo - Fullbring or Kido or Hollow powers



thornofcarrion
January 10, 2011, 11:17 PM
I was thinking about Ichigo's development as a character over the course of manga. He started with shinigami powers and then in the later part of manga we saw his hollow powers becoming more prominent. Quite honestly, I wanted to see his shinigami power come more into play. Kudos to Kubo, we did see him having more of a shinigami upgrades. Though its a bit debatable.

Moving on, recently we get the revelation about Fullbring. We only know a little about what it can do. With Xcution, trying to help Ichigo regaining his shinigami powers, I was wondering (said that in some other thread as well), what will be the effect of Fullbring? Can it be learned or can it only be used by having some hereditary requirement?

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is to know what are your views about Ichigo's development. Do you want to see Ichigo able to use all the three powers/techniques or you want to see Ichigo use some of them. We can compare these powers/techniques as well. Lets make it a friendly discussion, ok :thumbs.

kkck
January 11, 2011, 12:21 AM
I think the ability to use fullbring is in itself innate to the user rather than something that can be acquired. Not much to based that on but I think that makes the most sense. Don't think ichigo will actually use fullbring though, that would be strange.... His zampakuto already kinda brings the power from within his soul so it would be awkward for him to use an object to do basically the same thing. I think fullbring will have something to do with ichigo regaining his power however I don't see him acquiring that skill. It would be overkill for ichigo to acquire fullbring if you think about it considering just that was already enough for the new guys to seemingly have superior power to ishida. On the other hand perhaps chad, ishida and inue acquiring fullbring would perhaps do the trick for them to finally get the gigantic boost in power required for them to actually reach captain level. Ishida getting a unique bow to him and chad getting a weapon to complement his arms would be perfect. I could picture chad with a 12 foot long sword lol.

Jorge D. Dragon
January 11, 2011, 08:27 AM
In fact I would like to see Ichigo using all the tree types (kidou, hollow powers and fullbring), though Kubo always tries to make Ichigo too simple character who only uses Getsuga and trash his opponents by his superiour reiatsu. I don't say that it is bad, cause Ichigo is my favourite character in this manga, but it dissapoints a bit.:)
In fact Ichigo's problem was always a lack of time. He always had to hurry and always learned everything not in an apropriate way. That's why I think when he'll regain his powers he will just cntinue spamming Getsuga and using his Bankai on every opponent.:)

Though I want Kubo to prove me wrong.;)

Takahashi
January 11, 2011, 05:39 PM
Pretty much this^

Same thing happened to Naruto, Getsuga Tenshou is the Rasengan of Bleach.

I think Ichigo would be much more interesting if he had more variety, Kido would be my top pick, but Fullbring is also interesting, and hollow powers just add to the badassery factor.

thornofcarrion
January 11, 2011, 11:17 PM
As mush as I want to see Ichigo doing better in all the three fields, I don't suppose we will witness it happen. A balance of these powers can make him uber strong, even stronger. Among the three, I really wanted to see Ichigo firing off Cero, like he was about to do against Ulqi (Rust in Pieces).

I will agree, he never had time to learn kido or hollow techniques. But may be Kubo left room for improvement in future. I had a blur vision of Ichigo using a combo of Kido spell, GT, firing a cero...one followed by another :p.

kkck
January 11, 2011, 11:32 PM
I think ichigo will eventually manage to use cero willingly but kido is another deal. Cero is a natural thing for hollows, it is an innate very powerful skill. It should be about as natural as using GT for the most part. Kido on the other hand is another deal. It is an skill acquired through training and studying which require precise control of reiatsu (which he does not have so much as a shred off) so just going with it as he usually does won't do the trick as usual. It is possible ichigo can pull off low level kido after training but learning kido and being able to use it in battle should be difficult. The main weakness of kido during battle is that it takes a while to perform so the only virtually useable spells in battle are those you are skilled enough to perform without an incantation at sufficient proximity to what the spell would be like with a full incantation. What good would it do to ichigo to perform a level 15 if he has to use an incantation? The enemy will see that coming a mile away. Or worst, what good would a level 15 incantation at a third of its power do? It'd be useless.

thornofcarrion
January 11, 2011, 11:37 PM
Totally agree, even among the captains and more skilled shinigami, we don't see everyone being an expert kido user. A low level spell would not have enough power to serioulsy hurt stronger shinigmi but it may cause a distraction or buy sometime.

conn-man
January 12, 2011, 12:35 AM
These ideas bring some questions up.

For cero it would be a matter of whether or not Kubo is gonna give Ichigo his hollow powers back. Having a hollow in him made Ichigo very unhappy, afraid and weakened his resolve. Can he handle a hollow again now that he's more mature? If he can then he should learn about cero, sonido, etc.

Kido doesn't seem like his ichigos style. But for a theory, maybe he's got a 90 level kido that's waiting to be taught to him way in the future.

And for fullbring, I'm sure hes ment to learn it this arc, but will he need a personal item? And will it be something all its own or something he can use in conjunction with his shinigami and/or hollow side?

Ichigo is hard to predict right now, I'm looking forward to it.

xXan
January 12, 2011, 03:26 AM
Personaly i hope he get's his hollow back. Ichi-terminator was just cool.


The way i see fullbring working is by extracting his zanpakuto out of his soul. Like extracting a soul from a soul just like Aizen removed the hogyoku from rukia. That moved back then could be a fullbring and we never had any idea about it.

Jorge D. Dragon
January 12, 2011, 05:59 AM
kkck
I don't think that Ichigo's problem with learning Kidou resides in his bad control of reiatsu. He never had time and never had intention to learn Kidou. Also after the Dangai training I think he has great control over reiatsu and also showed improvement in trasing people in what he was also rather weak and he did it quite easily. Hence for now I think the problem will reside in whill he want to learn Kidou or not, cause he may just use Bankai and that's all. It would be overkill, cause he knows what it should be. I even think that his Shikai would be uber stong, practically like Yama's, cause Ichigo is reiatsu monster.:) Also even if Ichigo will use kidou spells without incantation and will have only third of its full power you should take in account that he has one of the strongest level of reiatsu in the Bleachverse on par with Yama and evolved Aizen, so even one third of middle level Kidou would be critical for the majority of the enemies.;)

About Hollow powers - I clearly want to see him using Cero.:) Maybe he can use bala.:) With Ichigo's reiatsu it would be pretty powerful.:)

Hystzen
January 12, 2011, 09:21 AM
i would have Ichigo been able to handle his hollow at shinji level a true vizard .

shinjis cero is a damn beast attack nearly wiped GJ of face of earth if grimm didnt use his own to save his skin.

fullbring i dont think he can learn. kido not bothered not his fight style ichigo is a up close fighter not byakuya style fighter.

so give him epic shinigami base power with hollow he be stronger than shinji who is high tier imo

munafn
January 12, 2011, 09:57 AM
i would have Ichigo been able to handle his hollow at shinji level a true vizard .

shinjis cero is a damn beast attack nearly wiped GJ of face of earth if grimm didnt use his own to save his skin.

fullbring i dont think he can learn. kido not bothered not his fight style ichigo is a up close fighter not byakuya style fighter.

so give him epic shinigami base power with hollow he be stronger than shinji who is high tier imo

No doubt..When I saw that shinji-GJ fight, I was so happy...I thought, damn...I can imagine ichigo firing a cero like that..was definitely one of my favorite badass fights in bleach

kidopitz27
January 14, 2011, 06:20 AM
i think after ichigo's powers returned he will not be a shinigami,hallow,fullbring maybe another term will come to apply (i want to call him a hybrid but maybe kubo has a kickass term for that so i'll wait )maybe after he meets people the same as him

Richo
January 14, 2011, 08:56 AM
Ichigo doesnt need to learn Kidou imo, he isn't the type for it. Ichigo already knows GT and could and should learn Cero which is all he needs in long range attacks (bala is a option aswell).
Fullbring is still not explored thoroughly so I cannot say much at this time about it, however having powers similair to Ginjou arent fair to be used in battle and ichigo already posses powers similair to char as in his mask only chad utilizes those powers into weapons like most hollows/arrancar do.

kkck
January 14, 2011, 10:20 AM
kkck
I don't think that Ichigo's problem with learning Kidou resides in his bad control of reiatsu. He never had time and never had intention to learn Kidou. Also after the Dangai training I think he has great control over reiatsu and also showed improvement in trasing people in what he was also rather weak and he did it quite easily. Hence for now I think the problem will reside in whill he want to learn Kidou or not, cause he may just use Bankai and that's all. It would be overkill, cause he knows what it should be. I even think that his Shikai would be uber stong, practically like Yama's, cause Ichigo is reiatsu monster.:) Also even if Ichigo will use kidou spells without incantation and will have only third of its full power you should take in account that he has one of the strongest level of reiatsu in the Bleachverse on par with Yama and evolved Aizen, so even one third of middle level Kidou would be critical for the majority of the enemies.;)

About Hollow powers - I clearly want to see him using Cero.:) Maybe he can use bala.:) With Ichigo's reiatsu it would be pretty powerful.:)

Bad control over his reaitsu will always be a factor here, that should by all intents and purposes be basic for a kido user. Now, reiatsu control can be changed however who knows how long that would take. Ichigo seems like the same type as renji so there is a good chance he might be inherently talentless for it. Now, even if things are as you say, how long would it take for his kido to reach an useable level? Remember that for that to happen for the most part he needs to be able to skip the incantation given how long they take otherwise the kido is basically useless in most battles.

Jorge D. Dragon
January 15, 2011, 01:03 PM
Bad control over his reaitsu will always be a factor here, that should by all intents and purposes be basic for a kido user. Now, reiatsu control can be changed however who knows how long that would take. Ichigo seems like the same type as renji so there is a good chance he might be inherently talentless for it. Now, even if things are as you say, how long would it take for his kido to reach an useable level? Remember that for that to happen for the most part he needs to be able to skip the incantation given how long they take otherwise the kido is basically useless in most battles.

I think the biggest problem will be to learn, cause he never actually wanted to learn thoroughly. Even when he trained with vaizards. We know that he is clearly one of the most talented persons. Of course he isn't that smart like Urahara or Aizen, but he clearly is the fastest in learning. That's why I think that there isn';t any problem for him to learn anything. The only problem is a lack of motivation, cause he has tremendous reiatsu and damn strong Bankai and also has hollow powers that boost him even more, so in fact he doesn't need to learn that much. Maybe his father will eventually teach him a bit, but who knows.:)


Hystzen

so give him epic shinigami base power with hollow he be stronger than shinji who is high tier imo
Of course Shinji is good at using Hollow powers, but he isn't that strong as Shinigami. I'd say that Kensei and Love are stronger in terms of Zanpaktou and fighting powers and also in Hollow powers. He was never shown as the strongest from their group. He was only their leader, but that doesn't mean that he is stronger. Though I can admit that he showed great action against Grimjow, but that wasn't anything special, cause he wasn't that strong.

El Samurai Guapo
January 15, 2011, 05:37 PM
Of course Shinji is good at using Hollow powers, but he isn't that strong as Shinigami. I'd say that Kensei and Love are stronger in terms of Zanpaktou and fighting powers and also in Hollow powers. He was never shown as the strongest from their group. He was only their leader, but that doesn't mean that he is stronger. Though I can admit that he showed great action against Grimjow, but that wasn't anything special, cause he wasn't that strong.

How is Shinji not strong as a shinigami? His zanpakutou (Sakanade) is primarily what makes him as deadly as he is in the first place, and that's from his shinigami side. Kensei and Love's zanpakutous have more raw power, but Sakanade's ability is easily superior.

Tenacious Weezy
January 16, 2011, 12:52 AM
From what the newest chapters have been stating I wouldn't be surprised if He got his Shinigami powers back along with 6 separate hollow mask/abilities, although I'm not sure if Hollow Ichigo will come back. I don't see Kido ever playing a part in terms of Ichigo and Full Bring needs to be explored quite a bit more but I doubt Ichigo will ever use it.

kkck
January 16, 2011, 01:10 PM
The way I see it, if zangetsu comes back then so must shirosaki given that they are one creature to begin with. Perhaps it will take a while until ichigo can use all of his powers again though.

conn-man
January 16, 2011, 09:13 PM
The way I see it, if zangetsu comes back then so must shirosaki given that they are one creature to begin with. Perhaps it will take a while until ichigo can use all of his powers again though.

I was thinking that loosing his powers altogether would have 'purified' Ichigo of his hollow. Under the idea that zan spirits are ingrained and hollows are an attached condition. Fullbring should be a fine replacement if this theory comes through.

Takahashi
January 17, 2011, 02:03 AM
How is Shinji not strong as a shinigami? His zanpakutou (Sakanade) is primarily what makes him as deadly as he is in the first place, and that's from his shinigami side. Kensei and Love's zanpakutous have more raw power, but Sakanade's ability is easily superior.

Yeah, I don't see how anyone could say Shinji doesn't have awesome Shinigami powers. When just your Shikai is a mini KS, Bankai would be crazy good.

BleachOD
January 17, 2011, 09:31 PM
I was thinking about Ichigo's development as a character over the course of manga. He started with shinigami powers and then in the later part of manga we saw his hollow powers becoming more prominent. Quite honestly, I wanted to see his shinigami power come more into play. Kudos to Kubo, we did see him having more of a shinigami upgrades. Though its a bit debatable.
.

Er, Ichigo normally relied on his shinigami powers more than than he did hollow

That was the problem

Fullbring, Hollow and Shinigami. Although Morita would sound epic calling out spells without incantation. I can't see, Ichigo being proficient in Kidou for a looooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg time

I like it that way. I like him flawed not too perfect

exacta
January 19, 2011, 12:43 AM
I agree Ichigo needs to learn some new techniques. Can't see him learning kido though. And his cero was badass, but a cero is kinda similiar to a GT. I don't know where Kubos going with this give Ichigo Fullbring powers either.This is why I like Allen Walker from D.Gray Man, he has a pretty versatile arsenal.

To Be Announced
January 19, 2011, 04:54 AM
While at first I didn't like Ichigo losing his powers, now that I think of it, it's a good move by Kubo. Knowing that he's taken it in this direction (getting Ichigo's power back by introducing a new power)...he can develop Ichigo's variety. I hope that he does this.

It's hard to predict where this could go, which I also like a lot.

As for Kido, it would be cool to see, but I don't think he'll learn any. I think it's plausible to see him be taught a spell or two that could be useful for him in his future battles but that's it. Even so, if he learned a spell or two that would satisfy me as far as Kido goes.

Fullbring - He is definitely going to get Fullbring powers, which is great, we just don't know what he'll be able to do with them.

Shinigami - A consistent question that hasn't been answered yet is when Ichigo's powers are restored, will the be before the 3-month training or after? Either way, we know these are coming back and they'll probably be just like they used to...it'll be interesting to see how Fullbring affects his Shinigami powers if they do at all.

Hollow - Maybe the most intriguing thing next to Fullbring. We all want to see Ichigo be able to fire Cero's willingly, I think Kubo knows that. It would be great to see him fire it from the tip of his sword. There are also some other things we could see him do with his Hollow powers like complete control of his mask and possibly control of Ichigonator.

Can't wait to see what new stuff Ichigo gets. As much as I like him I'm tired of Getsuga Tenshou

kamakazi_1996
April 03, 2011, 05:55 PM
ichigo would be awesome with kido, fullbring and hollow powers :)

his getsuga tensho was as overused a naruto's rasengan even though he used it in different ways like with grimjow he fired it at point blank range and in the ulquiorra battle he used getsuga but kept it inside his blade to increase damage, the FGT was really cool but it was a one-time thing

hollow powers would fit with ichigo well, i can see him firing ceros of his blade and even being able to go full hollow but maintain control like tousin but i think that will only happen if shirosaki returns, dam i miss that crazy bastard :D

its obvious ichigo will learn fullbring but im not sure about the part of him taking the other Xcution members abilities,

kido will make ichigo insanely powrful but it just i doubt he will learn it because it doesn't suit him, dont get me wrong i do want him to learn kido but i dont think he will learn it,

El Samurai Guapo
April 04, 2011, 02:19 AM
I honestly think fullbring sucks. It would have been a neat idea for a different manga, but not one where you already have tons of different people with unique abilities. Let Ichigo regain his shinigami powers and learn some new techniques for tensa zangetsu or some hollow moves like gran rey cero. He doesn't need this fullbring crap unless it's just temporary until he get's his former powers back.

Hanihime
April 04, 2011, 06:52 AM
He'll have fullbring abilities IMO.
He'll be regaining his shinigami powers back which implies he'll get hollow powers.
I don't see him learning kido, if he does he'll suck ass like Renji.
:amuse

kamakazi_1996
April 10, 2011, 09:05 PM
oh yea i just remembered there is another one that isn't on that list

does anyone remember hakuda (hand to hand combat) yoruichi was a master at it, just like in ss arc when ichigo put down zangetsu and 1 shotted omaeda, isane and sasakibe all in their shikai, i think it would be cool if ichigo learned how to do some hakuda, even if it is unlikely to happen

Jorge D. Dragon
April 12, 2011, 02:07 PM
I don't think that Fullbring is crap. Of course I don't think that any of Fullbringers can beat Captains, but the can pretty much beat any of Vice Captains, sinse Tsukishima one-shotted Ishida, so it would be rather easy to beat Vice Captains for them and even put a fight against the low tier of Captains. Especially I'd say that an eye-patched guy has a pretty decent ability.