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igotthegoods
January 19, 2011, 12:40 AM
Ikkaku vs. Aaroniero

http://static.mangahelpers.com/gallery-previews/13766.jpg

this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Ikkaku

Madarame Ikkaku is the 3rd Seat of the 11th Division in the Gotei 13. His captain is Zaraki Kenpachi. Ikkaku is a stereotypical 11th Division member — violent, fight-loving, and rude. Ikkaku considers fighting fun, just as his captain does, and tries to get as much fun as he can out of his opponents, so much so that he would take deadly risks to drag out the fight for as long as possible.

With his shikai command is "Grow," his zanpakutō, Hōzukimaru, becomes what looks like a naginata, but Ikkaku can use "Split" command to separate his naginata into its true form which is a Sansetsukon. Ikkaku's bankai, Ryūmon Hōzukimaru, gets increasingly more powerful as the fight drags on, interestingly different from most of the other bankai.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Aaroniero

Aaroniero Arruruerie is the ninth Espada and last of the first-generation Espada. He has two skulls suspended in an unknown fluid contained in a glass tank for a head. Having been a Gillian before becoming an Arrancar, he rose in power by devouring the hollows, acquiring their abilities, power, and knowledge in the process. By absorbing the hollow Metastacia, Aaroniero also gained access to the abilities, knowledge, and even physical characteristics of Shiba Kaien and his zanpakutō, Nejibana, which can create and manipulate torrents of water. Upon the release of his own zanpakutō, Glotonería, Aaroniero transforms into a massive, monstrous blob and gains access to all of his absorbed abilities at once.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

Ipoopshootingstars
January 24, 2011, 08:44 PM
Ikkaku wins this fight with realitive ease. His bankai is just too overwhelming for this level of an opponent.

conn-man
January 24, 2011, 08:52 PM
This one is tricky. Aaroneiro weilding Nejibana will be more than enough to keep Ikkaku on guard. But ikkaku is a quicker and more experienced fighter than Rukia so maybe he wont have such a hard time. But that's not even considering bankai yet for me.

With bankai Ikkaku is in position to do serious damage to the least durable of the espada. With a full charge up I see Ikkaku as a threat to anyone. He took out Edorads attack and went straight on through the rest of his body.

Random101
January 24, 2011, 09:41 PM
Ikkaku. I might have given it to the espada... provided we knew virtually ANY of his 30000 abilities. >>

All we really got on him is Kaien and his water trident. Suffice to say, more than that is necessary to stop Ikkaku's Bankai.

However #9 might be able to pull a win... If he had the hollow that absorbed Kaien's OTHER ability. You remember it, the one which allows you to, once a day, completely and utterly destroy a Zanpakuto by touch. Ikkaku's going to be boned barehanded, least durable espada or not, particularly if he waits to go bankai again. However I'm not sure if he even still has that ability, or the mechanics behind his absorbing Kaien to say the least...

kkck
January 24, 2011, 10:00 PM
Assuming there is no stupidity on arroniero's part then he should have quite an easy victory IMO. Seriously, this guy was a espada. In a straight fight ikkaku does not have a sliver of a chance in hell of getting near the tank. Rukia was grossly overwhelmed by him, she only got lucky.

cool_inuyasha_girl
January 24, 2011, 10:52 PM
True but a major part of Arroniero's strength while fighting Rukia was based on Kaien's abilities not his own. Arroniero's ability outside of Kaien's was simply his release which used the power from all the hollows he consumed. Although it would take Ikkaku a while to use his bankai no doubt, he should have the upperhand in this fight. Arroniero's weakness is his head, you break his head, he dies, though I doubt Ikkaku would do that so quickly if at all. He's more like Zaraki and likes to actually fight his opponents, but his sheer power would be enough to take Arroniero down as long as his pride and blood thirst were kept in check.

Xerneas
January 24, 2011, 11:53 PM
Ikkaku wins this fight with realitive ease. His bankai is just too overwhelming for this level of an opponent.

You mean the same Ban Kai that struggled to put down a Fraccion? Still I voted for Ikkaku. Not cause he's stronger than the Espada but because #9 is an idiot. I consider these people's personalities as much as anything else. He'd somehow end up getting his glass jar chopped off by Ikkaku after beating his tail for a while.

Takahashi
January 25, 2011, 12:40 AM
I went for the Espada. The guy should be able to disintegrate Ikkaku's Zan just like Kaien. Even if he can't, for whatever reason, he's still an Espada, and FAR stronger than Edorad. Ikkaku busted his sword against a Fraccion when they collided, how could he beat Aaroniero?

I'm not sure why someone has already said that Aaroniero is stupid, he was trying to get Rukia to kill her friends, and even once he was discovered, he was just mindfucking her because of her connection to Kaien. Ikkaku has no common ally that Aaroniero has absorbed, that means he'll have no need to pull on him what he did to Rukia.

Also, Rukia was HORRIBLY outclassed, she got lucky, and won for the plot. In a battle thread where you should compare things based on abilities, and not plot purpose, he'd win every time.

If Ikkaku struggles at ALL versus a Fraccion, it's clear he won't be beating an Espada.

El Samurai Guapo
January 25, 2011, 12:41 AM
He didn't struggle once he released his bankai he killed that arrancar fairly quickly. Problem was he waited until he was half dead to use his bankai. Had he used it from the get-go I think he would defeated that arrancar without having his bankai broken in the process. You can blame his crap shikai and unwillingness to use his bankai. Also, who's to say exactly how big of a difference in power there was between fraccions and the 9th espada.

I don't think Rukia's victory was 100% plot. It's true that the final dance thing was luck, but she could have potentially finished him when she fired that chanted hadou 73. If I remember correctly even Aaroniero asked her why she aimed it at the wall instead of himself because it would have injured him.

kkck
January 25, 2011, 12:50 AM
True but a major part of Arroniero's strength while fighting Rukia was based on Kaien's abilities not his own. Arroniero's ability outside of Kaien's was simply his release which used the power from all the hollows he consumed. Although it would take Ikkaku a while to use his bankai no doubt, he should have the upperhand in this fight. Arroniero's weakness is his head, you break his head, he dies, though I doubt Ikkaku would do that so quickly if at all. He's more like Zaraki and likes to actually fight his opponents, but his sheer power would be enough to take Arroniero down as long as his pride and blood thirst were kept in check.

Kaien's ability is arroniero's ability... Arroniero consumed everything of kaien down to his every memory. His release allowed him to use every ability he had which also includes negibana. Personally I don't think ikkaku is anywhere near the captain or at least he is not any closer than most VCs safe from bankai. I don't think he'd be able to keep up with arroniero at all, he could not even keep up with a measly fraccion....

Takahashi
January 25, 2011, 01:07 AM
He didn't struggle once he released his bankai he killed that arrancar fairly quickly. Problem was he waited until he was half dead to use his bankai. Had he used it from the get-go I think he would defeated that arrancar without having his bankai broken in the process. You can blame his crap shikai and unwillingness to use his bankai. Also, who's to say exactly how big of a difference in power there was between fraccions and the 9th espada.

Very true, I've mentioned it before in Ikkaku's defense in other threads that his severe injuries caused a decrease in power, don't know why I disregarded it now. :darn

However, it's been illustrated before that Ikkaku's Bankai is a big chunk of energy, but not all that durable. He may not have busted his Zan if he was 100%, but I bet it gets some pretty bad dents.

If the Fraccions were better than Aaroniero, they probably would have been Espada themselves. I know Aaroniero isn't the best Espada, but rather the one with the most potential. Still, he completely manhandled Rukia throughout the whole fight, which at the bare minimum shows that he would likely knock Ikkaku around pretty bad in his unreleased state. Important to note that Ikkaku cannot use Kido either, so it's just a pure sword fight.


I don't think Rukia's victory was 100% plot. It's true that the final dance thing was luck, but she could have potentially finished him when she fired that chanted hadou 73. If I remember correctly even Aaroniero asked her why she aimed it at the wall instead of himself because it would have injured him.

Yes, but the whole reason he left himself open was because he was still going with the "mindfuck plan". Against Ikkaku, I doubt his attitude would be even remotely the same.

I'm not 100% sure on what Aaroniero's release is actually good for here, as access to all of his abilities can't be used for a win because we've seen none of them :P

thornofcarrion
January 25, 2011, 01:09 AM
Ikkaku has enough power to take down the least impressive Espada. Espada yes but Aaroneiro really showed nothing exclusive enough to take down someone with a bankai. He even lost to Rukia's shikai, irrespective of the manner. He still lost the battle. Ikkaku has proficient speed, strength, and mobility to compete with his resurrection.

El Samurai Guapo
January 25, 2011, 01:25 AM
If the Fraccions were better than Aaroniero, they probably would have been Espada themselves. I know Aaroniero isn't the best Espada, but rather the one with the most potential. Still, he completely manhandled Rukia throughout the whole fight, which at the bare minimum shows that he would likely knock Ikkaku around pretty bad in his unreleased state. Important to note that Ikkaku cannot use Kido either, so it's just a pure sword fight.

I didn't say the fraccions were better, I said that the power gap between them in the 9th espada could be minimal for all we know.




Yes, but the whole reason he left himself open was because he was still going with the "mindfuck plan". Against Ikkaku, I doubt his attitude would be even remotely the same.

Yeah, the very fact that Aaroneiro focused more on "mindfucking" Rukia rather than just outright defeating her actually tells me the dude wasn't that strong. Granted that at first he was trying to get her to go and attack her comrades, but after it was clear that wasn't going to work I don't see why he chose to continue that whole charade.

Jackk
January 25, 2011, 01:40 AM
I'll go with Ikkaku.

A good hit on Aaroniero's ugly face will do it~ :toc

Well, Ikkaku will probably want to drag the fight some at first, but when he sees himself pressured...he will go all out. They are alone here, so Ikkaku will not hesitate to use his Bankai, and we know that Ikkaku fights to the death. Further, I don't think that Aaroniero is known for being extremely durable, so yeah. In all fairness though, Aaroniero's resurreccion could be dangerous, but the fact that his released state is seriously lacking in feats really does not help his case....

Takahashi
January 25, 2011, 01:54 AM
I didn't say the fraccions were better, I said that the power gap between them in the 9th espada could be minimal for all we know.

Yeah, but it's speculation either way.



Yeah, the very fact that Aaroneiro focused more on "mindfucking" Rukia rather than just outright defeating her actually tells me the dude wasn't that strong. Granted that at first he was trying to get her to go and attack her comrades, but after it was clear that wasn't going to work I don't see why he chose to continue that whole charade.

Why is that? Aizen mindfucked people all the time, doesn't mean he's weak. Aaroniero had a way to manipulate Rukia, so he took it. Not really any different than Aizen, Hinamori, and Hitsu.

And he continued with it because if your opponent is mindfucked, they'll be fighting predictably and recklessly. He HAD her beat, he lost because he had to.

xXan
January 25, 2011, 03:58 AM
If Rukia after how mind raped she was could defeat this guy so can Ikkaku.
Also nr.9 had low durability feats and no feats in his released state. The best "form" he could use was that of Kaien who was a VC.

Ikkaku FTW

Takahashi
January 25, 2011, 04:11 AM
If Rukia after how mind raped she was could defeat this guy so can Ikkaku.

......................Did you not see how she won?



Also nr.9 had low durability feats and no feats in his released state. The best "form" he could use was that of Kaien who was a VC.

Ikkaku FTW

What were his low durability feats? He mentioned that a double incantation high level Kido could have HURT him, not even killed him. He died because he got a sword through the brain, NO one lives through that.

However, it's true that he has no feats in his released state. That being said Kaien absolutely destroyed Rukia, I don't think Shikai Ikkaku would fair much better.

Bankai Ikkaku I would assume has the power to beat unreleased Aaroniero, but Aaroniero's release is a question mark. It allows him to use his thousands of abilities we've never seen, so it can't be used. However, a release is still a release, and they are always substantial increases in ability. I'd bet on his release being sufficient to beat a low level Bankai.

Snake_Cowboy
January 25, 2011, 04:11 AM
Tough say, but I'm going to have to go with Ikkaku.

Even without considering his Bankai, Ikkaku is definitely on vice-captain level. Aaroniero will certainly not have as easy a time with him as he did with Rukia. Ikkaku is a wild, skilled, overpowering fighter; he's not afraid to take risks, yet still uses some surprising tricks to his advantage that can catch Aaroniero off-guard. Examples include, the way he uses both his zanpakutou and its sheath to fight, aswell as the fact that his shikai is actually a three-part staff rather than a lance. I can see Ikkaku forcing Aaroniero to use Kaien's abilities quite quickly.

Once Aaroniero whips out Nejibana, things get tricky, but even Rukia handled him quite well. Considering his overall strength, Ikkaku will fare better than she did. They'll be fairly equal, until either one of them decides to release their Bankai or Resurreccíon, respectively. Most likely, Aaroniero will release Glotonería first, considering Ikkaku's reluctance to use his Bankai, even when no one's watching.

But once he does release it, Ikkaku will do some serious damage. Ryuumon Houzukimaru is designed for sheer force and he won't have trouble injuring Aaroniero with such a massive target. If Ikkaku gets his Bankai at 100%, I can see him tearing right through Aaroniero and that's just assuming he's not going to go for the fragile fish-tank head.

Don't get me wrong, it's not going to be an easy match for Ikkaku, but Edorad didn't seem like a weak opponent to me either. Some of Grimmjow's Fraccíones were tough and Edorad had a lot of power at this disposal. As others have said, I don't see Edorad as being that much weaker than the weakest of the Espada and Ikkaku still managed to beat him, if barely, in a half-dead state.

Really, the only big danger to Ikkaku is Metastacia's 'break a zanpakutou'-ability - but considering that Aaroniero, despite his boasting, did not even use a single one of those abilities against Rukia, I'm not sure whether his behaviour in this match is going to be any different. :-_- Judging by that and the way he kept toying with Rukia (leading him to get trapped and very nearly injured by that Kidou, as he himself admitted), Aaroniero does seem like the type to underestimate his opponents.

Jorge D. Dragon
January 25, 2011, 04:53 AM
I'd go with Ikkaku here. He is quite proficient fighter and also he has BanKai and among non Captains he should be the best in using it aside from Ichigo, hence I see him beating Aaroniero, though it would be a bit difficult, cause he need his BanKai to be fully activated.

chilibun
January 25, 2011, 05:55 AM
I'm going to give this to Aaroniero. The dude was an espada with the skills of Kaien. Ikkaku got his ass handed to him both times against fraccions. He beat Edorad with his bankai, but it was hardly convincing. He was severely hurt after the battle. I'd like to think espadas are significantly stronger than fraccions, hence Aaroniero wins.

xXan
January 25, 2011, 06:29 AM
......................Did you not see how she won?




What were his low durability feats? He mentioned that a double incantation high level Kido could have HURT him, not even killed him. He died because he got a sword through the brain, NO one lives through that.

However, it's true that he has no feats in his released state. That being said Kaien absolutely destroyed Rukia, I don't think Shikai Ikkaku would fair much better.

Bankai Ikkaku I would assume has the power to beat unreleased Aaroniero, but Aaroniero's release is a question mark. It allows him to use his thousands of abilities we've never seen, so it can't be used. However, a release is still a release, and they are always substantial increases in ability. I'd bet on his release being sufficient to beat a low level Bankai.

He got reckless and got defeated by a opponent that almost let herself got stabbed trough the chest. Point is she defeated him with no prep and no outside interferance. How she was able to do it is irrelevant.
Durability:
If that Kido could do some serious damage to him imagine what a bankai would do lol.
As you said Aaroniero's release is a question mark. I go by the rull that if he never showed something = he can't do it. His release just transforms him in a mountain of jello nothing else. I realy can't debate with asumtions just evidence. If we go by asumtions we would turn this in a fanfic.

Gran Maestro
January 25, 2011, 07:18 AM
He didn't struggle once he released his bankai he killed that arrancar fairly quickly. Problem was he waited until he was half dead to use his bankai. Had he used it from the get-go I think he would defeated that arrancar without having his bankai broken in the process. You can blame his crap shikai and unwillingness to use his bankai. Also, who's to say exactly how big of a difference in power there was between fraccions and the 9th espada.

I don't think Rukia's victory was 100% plot. It's true that the final dance thing was luck, but she could have potentially finished him when she fired that chanted hadou 73. If I remember correctly even Aaroniero asked her why she aimed it at the wall instead of himself because it would have injured him.

A rare occasion but I agree with El Samurai Guapo. :D

The only problem with Ikkaku is his reluctance to use bankai until he gets beat up. An Ikkaku in good shape with a bankai which, I assume, he mastered to some extent (he trained Renji after all), can certainly defeat the lowest-ranked espada. In fact, I won't be surprised if Ikkaku has been promoted to be a captain during the time skip. Not an easy victory but IMO Ikkaku wins.

xXan
January 25, 2011, 07:56 AM
A rare occasion but I agree with El Samurai Guapo. :D

The only problem with Ikkaku is his reluctance to use bankai until he gets beat up. An Ikkaku in good shape with a bankai which, I assume, he mastered to some extent (he trained Renji after all), can certainly defeat the lowest-ranked espada. In fact, I won't be surprised if Ikkaku has been promoted to be a captain during the time skip. Not an easy victory but IMO Ikkaku wins.

The only reason as to why he is not using Bankai is so others don't find out. In this situation nobody is around so i realy don't see why not.

Gran Maestro
January 25, 2011, 08:56 AM
The only reason as to why he is not using Bankai is so others don't find out. In this situation nobody is around so i realy don't see why not.

I know Ikkaku won't hold back in this match-up, I was just trying to explain his mediocre performance against fraccions. And frankly Ikkaku's opponents were impressive by fraccion standards. In this fight Ikkaku will most probably go bankai from the get-go, the more he fights in bankai, the stronger he gets (as the dragon crest fills). His bankai possesses more than enough power to cut down Aaroniero provided that Ikkaku is in good shape to support it with his reiatsu.

AlB
January 25, 2011, 09:32 AM
Gin owns them both lol
:ck
still there are two outcomes:
1. if Ikkaku starts b*tching about how a proper man should hold back when fighting then he is toast.
2. if Ikkaku goes goes berserk from the beginning and unleashes Bankai then it's just how Gran Maestro said: he gets stronger as fight progresses and eventually murders 9th espada (please don't make me spell his name correctly :darn)

kkck
January 25, 2011, 09:37 AM
I don't think rukia would have actually killed arroniero with her hado back then. It is within the realm of possibilities arroniero would have been injured however I don't see it being anything more than light injuries which would not have actually held him back. Even if ikkaku's bankai could potentially cut down arroniero, he still has to get past arroniero's defense and to do that he needs either more power than a espada or more speed. Even if ikkaku attacks with bankai I don't see any reason for arroniero to not be able to block or repel with his own sword. It's not like arroniero had trouble keeping up with rukia's movements or her techniques were too powerful.... Heck, it is the most extreme opposite, for 99% of the fight arroniero had a remarkably easy time and rukia could not even see the guy's movements. I don't think ikkaku is sufficiently stronger than rukia for the situation to be significantly different. Even then, would it make sense in the least for ikkaku's bankai to be a match for arroniero's resurreccion? Not in the least.... Ikkaku had enough trouble with fraccion (even if they seemed stronger than average) and I doubt any of them would actually be anywhere near the power of a espada/captain. Even if arroniero was the least impressive of the espada we have no reason to believe he did not have captain level. Assuming there is no stupidity on arroniero's part this time, we have no reason to believe ikkaku would not be schooled in a similar fashion than what byakuya beat up renji, nnoitora beat up chad or grant renji and ishida....

g0dzax
January 25, 2011, 02:27 PM
I'm going with Ikkaku for this one.If the 9th espada was killed from a shikai release(by some special means,but still...he was killed by a shikai),then I don't see a single reason for a mad,berserk,bankai Ikkaku to not kill him.Especially since in Glotoneria the 9th espada(damn,he's got a though name..Aaroniero Aluluerie if I remember correctly..couldn't they have named him The Double A?)is very big and Ikkaku won't have trouble on what to cut.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
January 25, 2011, 03:36 PM
although the hell arc is aone-shot, and thus not cannon, it is implied that the tank is not that fragile, as in Rukia's 3rd dance can be done to a regular head with the same effect just fine. Also, glotoneria was shown in the chapter to be very mobile.

I say AA, because Ikkaku's bankai certainly removed a big chunk of Edrad, but broke in the process. Even if AA's glotoneria is half as durable as Edrad, there is just too much body for him to inflict wounds that would outright kill Aaroniero.

AA is getting beat up, but whether through metastacia's ability, or the bankai's fragility, Ikkaku will be left weaponless and defeated IMO. People say Ikkaku is fast, but that was with his fight against ichigo, where Ichi was not all that great, he didnt display anything great against Edrad the fraccion or Luppi. Also, AA snapped rukia's six rods of light only moments after she used it, so he's not getting overwhelmed by Ikkaku's shikai ever in the strength department.

Takahashi
January 26, 2011, 01:55 AM
He got reckless and got defeated by a opponent that almost let herself got stabbed trough the chest. Point is she defeated him with no prep and no outside interferance. How she was able to do it is irrelevant.

How is the method not relevant? Rukia won due to the plot, realistically, Rukia was outclassed completely.



Durability:
If that Kido could do some serious damage to him imagine what a bankai would do lol.

It was a FULL incantation Hadou 63. How is that not powerful?



As you said Aaroniero's release is a question mark. I go by the rull that if he never showed something = he can't do it. His release just transforms him in a mountain of jello nothing else. I realy can't debate with asumtions just evidence. If we go by asumtions we would turn this in a fanfic.

EVERY fight topic is an assumption, what matters is the logic behind the assumptions.

If assumptions shouldn't be considered, guys like Tessai wouldn't be moving on.

I think people underestimate Aaroniero. He's low on the chart for Espada, and he'd certainly get his ass kicked by a captain. However, Ikkaku is NOT captain level, perhaps after the time skip, but not now.

Jackk
January 26, 2011, 02:09 AM
It was a FULL incantation Hadou 63. How is that not powerful?


Sōren Sōkatsui is Hadō #73 :)

Jackk
January 26, 2011, 02:16 AM
Alrighty then, even better :tem

Yeah, interestingly enough...it apparently really was hadou 63, but Kubo changed it in the second data book. and Sōren Sōkatsui is now Hadō #73 lol...

Although I don't have the link to where that is stated in the data book at the moment... but I'm pretty sure I saw it.... =/

Bleach wiki does state this as well. And states that the second data book changed it, but you know I tend to not use Bleach wiki as a source, so yeah...

xXan
January 26, 2011, 02:20 AM
How is the method not relevant? Rukia won due to the plot, realistically, Rukia was outclassed completely.




It was a FULL incantation Hadou 63. How is that not powerful?




EVERY fight topic is an assumption, what matters is the logic behind the assumptions.

If assumptions shouldn't be considered, guys like Tessai wouldn't be moving on.

I think people underestimate Aaroniero. He's low on the chart for Espada, and he'd certainly get his ass kicked by a captain. However, Ikkaku is NOT captain level, perhaps after the time skip, but not now.

It does not matter how you win a fight. By deceiving you oponent or by beating him up with your fists.
He got careless thinking he won that because he mind raped her and the fact that she was impaled on his trident looking thing. That fight could have been entirely diferent if Rukia was fighting from the start but for obvious reasons she was unable to, actualy it was because of the PLOT so that guy had the plot on his side to ....He would have no such advantage in his fight with Ikkaku. The dude lost because of his caracter and that is fully ok in this battles.
Also i have to say that Rukia had a tactic that could have injured him(how serious i got no idea there) but because of her state of mind she decided to expose him and not damage him. She did pretty good there.

ninjabot
January 26, 2011, 02:22 AM
How long do these individual fights last?

Anyway, going with Ikkaku. Aaroniiro may have a host of individual abilities he can wield from all the Hollow he devoured, (I base that on his ability to use Kaien's power) but we don't know what those are, so it's moot. And his released form is a massive target. I doubt Ikakku would fool around with him too long as he's not a warrior like himself, meaning he wouldn't get any fun out of the fight. He'd probably just finish the fight quickly.

Takahashi
January 26, 2011, 02:30 AM
It does not matter how you win a fight. By deceiving you oponent or by beating him up with your fists.
He got careless thinking he won that because he mind raped her and the fact that she was impaled on his trident looking thing. That fight could have been entirely diferent if Rukia was fighting from the start but for obvious reasons she was unable to, actualy it was because of the PLOT so that guy had the plot on his side to

Yeah, THAT method doesn't matter, because both of those examples are ways to outclass an opponent. When you get completely owned for an entire fight and get lucky enough to form your sword in a guy's head, that's luck, due to plot, and should have no bearing on fight threads in any way, shape, or form.


....He would have no such advantage in his fight with Ikkaku. The dude lost because of his caracter and that is fully ok in this battles.
Also i have to say that Rukia had a tactic that could have injured him(how serious i got no idea there) but because of her state of mind she decided to expose him and not damage him. She did pretty good there.

No, it wasn't HIS character, but the fact that Rukia had a connection with a character he had absorbed. He would not have used that tactic like that against anyone else in HM.

I also notice you didn't reply about Aaroniero's durability, do you admit a full incantation Hadou 73 is powerful? Or are you not budging on that?

xXan
January 26, 2011, 03:03 AM
Yeah, THAT method doesn't matter, because both of those examples are ways to outclass an opponent. When you get completely owned for an entire fight and get lucky enough to form your sword in a guy's head, that's luck, due to plot, and should have no bearing on fight threads in any way, shape, or form.



No, it wasn't HIS character, but the fact that Rukia had a connection with a character he had absorbed. He would not have used that tactic like that against anyone else in HM.

I also notice you didn't reply about Aaroniero's durability, do you admit a full incantation Hadou 73 is powerful? Or are you not budging on that?

Ok i agree there with you in part but what would you call somehow Rukia ending fighting this guy who had absorbed Kaien? What are the ods (i call it plot)? It is obvious she was unable to do much in that fight because of this fact. She was unable to fight the entire fight because of the plot to. So its a plot device vs a plot device. Somehow they cancel both out. I am sure if that guy never had Kaien (not sure if i am spelling this right) the battle would have been diferent. Think about it, she had a chanse to do some damage but she trew it away just so she can see if that is Kaien.

Edit: I never said anything about any Hadou 73. But if you are asking me if its powerfull then i would say yes.

Takahashi
January 26, 2011, 03:05 AM
Ok i agree there with you in part but what would you call somehow Rukia ending fighting this guy who had absorbed Kaien? What are the ods (i call it plot)? It is obvious she was unable to do much in that fight because of this fact. She was unable to fight the entire fight because of the plot to. So its a plot device vs a plot device. Somehow they cancel both out. I am sure if that guy never had Kaien (not sure if i am spelling this right) the battle would have been diferent. Think about it, she had a chanse to do some damage but she trew it away just so she can see if that is Kaien.

I agree that she could have hurt him with Kido, but that was the only time. You might want to reread the fight (I did), and you'll see that even when she exposes him and is serious, she still loses horribly. I doubt it would have made a significant difference, especially since the reason she caught him with Kido is because he didn't want the sunlight to touch him.

xXan
January 26, 2011, 03:11 AM
I agree that she could have hurt him with Kido, but that was the only time. You might want to reread the fight (I did), and you'll see that even when she exposes him and is serious, she still loses horribly. I doubt it would have made a significant difference, especially since the reason she caught him with Kido is because he didn't want the sunlight to touch him.

Ok going to to that.
__
I just now understood what you meant about the Hadou 73 (i forgot what level it was in the battle), of course it would be powerfull but you have to admit a bankai would be more. Of course it would diferenciate from bankai to bankai.

Takahashi
January 26, 2011, 03:12 AM
Ok going to to that.
__
I just now understood what you meant about the Hadou 73 (i forgot what level it was in the battle. of course it would be powerfull but you have to admit a bankai would be more. Of course it would diferenciate from bankai to bankai.

On average, I'd agree, but with Ikkaku, I'm not sure. We know Ikkaku isn't captain class, I see his Bankai on more of a Renji level, which IMO is pretty low on the scale. It's got power, but like Edorad said, it's clumsy, it's brittle, and I question it's value when fighting a giant opponent.

Junior
January 26, 2011, 12:41 PM
This is going to be a hard fight -- way better than the first two matches.

Why?

Because the only reason, I believe, this Espada lost to Rukia was because he was too busy playing mind games. The "spirit" of Kaien told him then it had a past with Rukia and he exploited it. Period.

This led to him being overconfident and getting raped by one of the most underwhelming characters in BLEACH (sorry rukia).

The THOUGHT of how this battle would turn out: someone with a shitload of abilities against Ikkaku? Is too mind boggling for words. Especially since, to my knowledge, Aaroniero has nobody to mindfuck Ikkaku with.

So in theory this would be an epic fight.

but we know nothing of Aaroniero's other abilities so it would be silly to base any assumptions on stuff we don't know.

As it stands? Aaroniero (using only Kaien's abilities) vs. Ikkaku pretty goes to Ikkaku without much discussion for me.

As long as Ikkaku takes things seriously and isn't afraid to use Bankai for some WEIRD reason...he'll win.

Voting for Ikkaku.

exacta
January 26, 2011, 12:53 PM
I don't think we should take think badly of the fact Ikkaku's Bankai breaks, its fragile because his Bankai is all about power. It focuses completely on strength, thats why its fragile. It may break, but its cutting ability is impressive.

Problem is we didn't really get to see Aaronierros resurrercion. Kaien's shikai is pretty badass, and Po gave Ikkaku trouble with just his shikai, so Kaien should start out with the edge. Its when Ikkaku goes Bankai that I wonder what will happen. I would've liked to see Ikkaku fight Nnoitra or Grimmjow, both of them are mostly just straight up physical combat characters do it would be more down Ikkakus lane.

conn-man
January 26, 2011, 02:59 PM
One of the main factors of Ikkakus bankai that I think is impressive is how big the blades are and how fast he weilds all three of them. I dont see how someone can get close to him, hes almost completly boxed in olny with his front(the most dangerous side to attack on) exposed.

Jamil2009
January 26, 2011, 03:53 PM
I'm for the Novena Espada.

As has been posted, I believe he would have won against Rukia if he had kept a cool head. And not just win; more accurately a thorough beating.

And, if my guess is right, isn't the hollow that killed Kaien able to cause a Shinigami's zan to disappear and to possess a Shinigami? Once activated that ability could be seriously deadly, considering Ikkaku might not even know about it.

monkey D luffy
January 28, 2011, 09:05 AM
depends on where are they fighting actually. if there is any light ikkaku might even one shot aaroniero, the fact that aaroniero is espada means nothing, he got that position because of his ability not his fighting power. i think the fraccion ikkaku beat is in fact stronger then aaroniero because frankly he is a higher tier hollow then aaroniero (that fraccion was a educhas and aaroniero was gillian)

xXAshisogiJizoXx
January 28, 2011, 09:21 AM
depends on where are they fighting actually. if there is any light ikkaku might even one shot aaroniero, the fact that aaroniero is espada means nothing, he got that position because of his ability not his fighting power. i think the fraccion ikkaku beat is in fact stronger then aaroniero because frankly he is a higher tier hollow then aaroniero (that fraccion was a educhas and aaroniero was gillian)

Um, when AA said its because "his ability" that he is an espada, it means that he used his ability to acquire enough reiatsu to attain, or rather, hold on to his rank, since he is one of the first gen espada. If crazy abilities alone determined the espada, then why not Rudobone and his infinite army over Noitora and his straightforwardness...Because rudobone doesn't have the reiatsu to back up his otherwise impressive ability, and thus non of the benefits of high reiatsu (speed, durability, strength, etc.). AA, being an espada, did have the reiatsu to back up his ability, enough to be the tenth greatest arrancar. If Edrad had a greater reiatsu then AA, he would be the noveno espada...alas, he is not.

Also, since AA retained the zanpakto nejibana when he was in the light, it was the transformation ability that failed in the light, not his overall power.

kkck
January 28, 2011, 09:51 AM
If edoras had been stronger than arroniero he would have been a espada, not a numeros. Aizen does kinda keep track of how strong his servants were otherwise grimmjow would not have lost his rank when he lost his power and there would be no need for privaron espada. Heck, lets take what shaolong said here.
http://www.mangareader.net/94-663-5/bleach/chapter-209.html
He admitted the espada in general were overwhelmingly more powerful than them. He should know how strong edoras and the rest were in general considering they all had been around for a while so I would think this is to be taken into account. If ikkaku's bankai barely matched edoras then I really don't see him holding a candle against a sealed and blindfolded arroniero.....

Crystal Black
January 28, 2011, 12:10 PM
I have to give this to Ikkaku. Aaroniero as a fool. If Rukia's sword dance can get threw his jar head, then Ikaku has this in the bag with his bankai and it's destructive capabilties. Those abilties Aaroniero has is meaningless. Ikkaku is a fighter,.

Raizen
January 28, 2011, 08:55 PM
I don't think ikkaku can win.
The 9th espada's main goal was to mind fuck rukia and hopefully turn her against her comrades. If he wanted to, he could kill her easily, which he did show.

All the collections of his hollow powers would be too much for ikkaku. Not to mention, he has the power of the hollow that makes zanpakto powers useless. If he was smart and does not underestimate ikkaku, the 9th espada would win. I don't see aizen allowing someone to be a hollow if it can't beat a VC level opponent... and ikkaku is VC level

xXAshisogiJizoXx
January 28, 2011, 09:14 PM
I don't think ikkaku can win.
The 9th espada's main goal was to mind fuck rukia and hopefully turn her against her comrades. If he wanted to, he could kill her easily, which he did show.

All the collections of his hollow powers would be too much for ikkaku. Not to mention, he has the power of the hollow that makes zanpakto powers useless. If he was smart and does not underestimate ikkaku, the 9th espada would win. I don't see aizen allowing someone to be a hollow if it can't beat a VC level opponent... and ikkaku is VC level

Agreed. The zanpakto destruction ability of metastacia is especially bad for Ikkaku because he is not going release his bankai immediately, and even when he does, it takes time to "wake up". Meaning AA will have lots of opportunities to use that ability, IF he was somehow overpowered which is even then debatable.

The point of AA's fight with rukia was to present a fan favorite with an insurmountable obstacle, an espada, which she should have no chance of defeating,...not that one of the espada is just drastically weaker than the rest and weaker then several fraccion to boot.

Random101
January 28, 2011, 11:53 PM
^Problem is does he have that power though? Recall he apparently only got parts of that hollow which allowed him to take Kaien's form, and he's showed neither of those hollows powers yet, despite that very same one frankly have been extremely useful to say the least. It's questionable whether he got said power by eating those remains in all honesty, hence why I'm not to sure about him having it.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
January 29, 2011, 11:09 AM
^Problem is does he have that power though? Recall he apparently only got parts of that hollow which allowed him to take Kaien's form, and he's showed neither of those hollows powers yet, despite that very same one frankly have been extremely useful to say the least. It's questionable whether he got said power by eating those remains in all honesty, hence why I'm not to sure about him having it.

I mean, the arguement that "we don't know because we didn't see it" seems very weak in this case, because it was a one sided fight. Why would he have to use such a devastating ability against an underwhelming Rukia?

That would also go against the plan of getting Rukia to attack her own teammates, b/c he never wanted to reveal that he wasn't Kaien, Rukia had to find out for herself. It was only after that, in his true form, did AA display his superiority to her; using his sonido to surprise her for the second time, after having shattered her six rods of light.

Also, AA said he "feasted on it's [metastacia's] body", I don't remember any mention of parts; the body was even shown. And with that, he even directly said that glotoneria exctracts the memories, abilities, and form of the hollow bodies he consumes. Within this body though, was the fused soul of kaien and metastacia, as seen in rukia's flashback, and thus, his only means of acquiring shinigami power. With this info, it seems all but certain, that he has metastacia's abilities as well, including the body possession IMO.

Random101
January 29, 2011, 01:16 PM
Why would he have to use such a devastating ability against an underwhelming Rukia?
Why would he release against an already underwhelming Rukia? Similarly it was some business about the body dying, crumbling and returning to Hueco Mundo: http://www.mangareader.net/94-721-9/bleach/chapter-267.html

Which in itself is weird, when a Hollow is slain by a Zanpakuto, like say I don't know, Rukia's, aren't they supposed to fade away and move on to the afterlife? Or was the fact that it had absorbed Kaien exempted it? My basic point is that this one case is incredibly weird, partly because it was bad writing just to milk Kaien for all it was worth.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
January 29, 2011, 01:59 PM
Why would he release against an already underwhelming Rukia? Similarly it was some business about the body dying, crumbling and returning to Hueco Mundo: http://www.mangareader.net/94-721-9/bleach/chapter-267.html

Which in itself is weird, when a Hollow is slain by a Zanpakuto, like say I don't know, Rukia's, aren't they supposed to fade away and move on to the afterlife? Or was the fact that it had absorbed Kaien exempted it? My basic point is that this one case is incredibly weird, partly because it was bad writing just to milk Kaien for all it was worth.

Well, because Metastacia was an experimentation of Aizen; upon dying, the corpse returned to hueco mundo as designed, it was not a natural being, thats all. AA mentioned that earlier in his fake story, and Aizen confirmed it when mentioned that he even made a hollow that could destroy zanpakto's, with a panel showing metastacia, but still failed to reach his expectations.

That still doesn't answer why AA would bother using it agaisnt Rukia, the ability does have a 24 hour cooldown, and with 5 invaders in HM, there was no apparent reason to waste it on Rukia

Jorge D. Dragon
January 29, 2011, 02:34 PM
I'd say that many people understimate Ikkaku. Of course he isn't on par with the Captains, though it was shown that he is on strong Vice Captains level with Bankai that is pure offense that also drastically level up his reiatsu. Also don't compare him with Rukia or Renji, cause he is clearly better than they in terms of swordsmanship and reiatsu. His only problem is holding back his Bankai, but if he gets serious and uses it from the start I'd say he can manage Aaroniero.

Raizen
January 29, 2011, 03:35 PM
I think we can all agree that rukia only won due to plot and the 9th's espada stupidity.

Madarame is good, but I don't see him capable of beating the 9th espada. His bankai was stated to have massive cutting power, but also due to the extreme pressure it is under, it cracks relatively easy- as seen when he hit the fraccion the first time. Even if aareonel uses kaien's shikai alone, it would still be a match for ikkaku's bankai due to its abilties. If he releases, he should have raised his SP to a level much higher than the likes of the fraccion that ikkaku defeated. Yet, ikkaku's bankai was trashed after that battle. So i don't see how he will win

Takahashi
January 29, 2011, 03:43 PM
I'd say that many people understimate Ikkaku. Of course he isn't on par with the Captains, though it was shown that he is on strong Vice Captains level with Bankai that is pure offense that also drastically level up his reiatsu. Also don't compare him with Rukia or Renji, cause he is clearly better than they in terms of swordsmanship and reiatsu. His only problem is holding back his Bankai, but if he gets serious and uses it from the start I'd say he can manage Aaroniero.

Ikkaku underestimated? Have you read the posts in this thread? :blink

Tsukisama
January 29, 2011, 08:16 PM
Ikkaku wins with almost 80% of the votes! He shall advance on into Round 2. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.

Stay tuned for more details! :cheerbunny