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igotthegoods
January 19, 2011, 01:26 AM
Mayuri vs. Starrk

http://static.mangahelpers.com/gallery-previews/14053

this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Mayuri

Kurotsuchi Mayuri is the 12th division captain and 2nd president of Shinigami Research and Development Institute. He is an amoral genius with a penchant for poisons and body modifications of his subjects, subordinates, and even himself. His shikai, Ashisogi Jizō, can, after stabbing of the opponent, induce paralysis of the limbs that does not inhibit pain reception. His bankai, Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō, produces a large, autonomous creature that exhales deadly, incurable poison, can extend and retract numerous blades, devour and crush opponents, and self-destruct at Kurotsuchi's command.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Starrk

Coyote Starrk is the Primera Espada, signified by the "1" tattooed on the back of his left hand. The aspect of death he represents is solitude. Starrk has an overall lazy and laid-back personality and is normally reluctant, yet can be serious and willing to do what needs to be done to complete the task at hand.

Unlike the rest of the Espada, Starrk's power is not sealed inside his zanpakutō but is released when he recombines with Lilynette Gingerback, who was shown as his Fracción but is actually another part of him. When they combine, their release is Los Lobos. He wields two ornamental guns able to fire off cero in rapid succession, one of these guns actually being Lilynette with whom he is able to converse. Stark and Lilynette can also separate portions of their souls to form a pack of wolves that explode upon contact with an enemy as well as form swords for close combat.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

Omiem
February 05, 2011, 11:55 PM
Starrk definitely wins this. He could spam those ceros/wolves as long as he's in a safe distance from Mayuri's poison.

El Samurai Guapo
February 06, 2011, 12:57 AM
Even though Mayuri can be tricky, I'm gonna go with Starrk. The wolves were no joke; people frequently use Love & Rose's performance against Starrk as a way to put them down, but honestly their favorite captains would have gone down hard against that attack as well.

In a 1 on 1 fair fight, there's probably very few people who could have taken Starrk. Shunsui is a possibility depending on what his bankai is. Same with all of the others who have yet to release their bankais.

Only character other than Aizen and Yamamoto who could definitely solo him in Shikai is Shinji, given that the wolves are probably a heck of a lot easier to dodge if they're all going in the wrong directions.

Takahashi
February 06, 2011, 03:55 AM
This is one of the toughest decisions in this tournament for me.

Right off the bat, I want to say Stark. He was damn impressive, and he only died because he got cheap shotted by an attack that should have ended the game right there, and yet he kept fighting. The wolves owned two Vaizard captains with ease, he can fire 1000 freakin' Cero at once, and just as dangerous is the fact that the guy's smart.

The problem is, Mayuri is a question mark. Even a clever guy like Stark wouldn't see half of the shit coming that Mayuri could throw at him. In terms of WTFisthatgetawayfrome-ness, I'd rather fight Urahara than Mayuri. His Bankai poison can kill pretty much anyone, he can dose you with things you didn't even know existed, and he's just all around scary.

For the first time in the tournament, I'm gonna wait to see what people have to say on this...

Random101
February 06, 2011, 04:31 AM
Starrk. Mayuri is godmodded to a degree that has even Syzael beat. The problem? He's to specialized. Whereas Syzael is godmodded in such a way that makes him utterly broken, Mayuri is godmodded in such a way that primarily works only against other people who godmod. Half the reasons he was negating half the crap he was was because he had crap that would ONLY come in handy in that ONE situation. Bankai Auto Selfdestruct is useless anywhere else, and when the hell else are you going to need your VC to have some super slow drug in her womb?

Plus Mayuri kinda sucks against overwhemling power, distance or no distance even when he more or less understood the concept. Starrk's virtually the same only he is friggin fast and can send regenerating seeker missile wolves after you.

Broken_Wing
February 06, 2011, 04:48 AM
The main reason why Mayuri countered Syzael was because he had knowledge and prep of his abilities through his fight with Renji and Ishida.

His main weapon would be his bankai poison. Thats about it. He got creamed by a powerful, long-range attack in Ishida's Final Quincy Arrow.

Starrk is a master of long-range, spammable, and powerful attacks. If he sonidos out of the gas - which he can. Starrk STOMPS HARD.

AlB
February 06, 2011, 04:56 AM
while I don't believe that this will be an easy fight for him Stark will still win. Stark is fast, strong and long-range fighter. Mayuri has nothing on his wolves that are one the most hax abilities in Bleach. Though they are one-time usage phonies I don't think Mayuri is fast enough to evade them. Neither will he have time to come up with any scientific solution to counter them.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 06, 2011, 05:28 AM
Starrk wins it easily. Mayuri is the weakest Captain, so even in Bankai he has no chance of winning this fight.

Gran Maestro
February 06, 2011, 05:30 AM
Mayuri's only chance is to go bankai and hope that Stark gets poisoned before he kills him. Does it happen? Unlikely. Stark will most likely stay away from Mayuri's bankai because he's a long-range fighter and he is smart enough to know not to get too close to a bankai which you have no idea about. His cero guns will be more than enough to defeat Mayuri, Stark wins.

Snake_Cowboy
February 06, 2011, 08:22 AM
Perhaps the most interesting fight of the whole tournament so far.

While Mayuri is a genius and potentially one of the most dangerous among the captains, he's still the weakest of them in terms of actual combat ability and he's up against the Primera Espada. What impressed me most about Starrk was not his sheer power and abilities (which are still amazing), but his skill: the way Starrk was able to see through Kyouraku's double-handed fighting style, how he figured out Ukitake's zanpakutou ability in one move, how he immediately understood Kyouraku's colour-game... All these are a clear indication of a damn smart fighter. Starrk may be lazy, but despite his power, there's no way he would underestimate Mayuri, which is one of the most dangerous mistakes you could make against him.

On top of that, Starrk had enough resilience to take a direct hit from Love's Tengumaru, with mask, and emerge with barely a scratch. He can shoot countless Cero that overwhelmed even Kyouraku and with his wolves, he's damn nigh unstoppable.

Mayuri, on the other hand, was only able to counter Szayel because he had time to prepare for him - something he can't do in this fight. He may have a lot of tricks, but I don't think any of them would be sufficient to counter Starrk. Unless he could plan for Starrk in advance, Mayuri has a problem. He doesn't have Nemu to back him up, either.

While Mayuri's shikai is dangerous, there's not a chance in hell that Starrk would allow himself to get hit by it, even unreleased. If he were to get serious, Starrk would tear him up, even without his Resurreccíon and I can't think of anything that Mayuri could manage to defeat Starrk. Really, Mayuri's only hope his Bankai and it's probably the only thing that would force Starrk to release.

It's poison may be lethal, but as others have said, he's smart enough to stay the hell away from something as dangerous as that. Even if it hits, I suspect Starrk would last long enough to take out Mayuri, thereby winning the fight.

His barrage of Ceros alone may be strong enough to keep Konjiki Ashisogi Jizou at bay or even shoot right through it. Otherwise, Starrk still has his wolves to get around it and attack Mayuri himself, while he stays out of range. Regardless of how he does, Starrk can simply overwhelm Mayuri without ever giving him the opportunity to think of a way to counter him.

Starrk wins.

UchihaHunter
February 06, 2011, 10:24 AM
This is actually really tough...even in Shikai, if Mayuri gets one hit in, Stark effectively can't move. It'd be quite difficult for Mayuri to hit him, but still...and in Bankai, the poison shouldn't be ineffective, imo...

But on the other hand, Stark is broken.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
February 06, 2011, 10:41 AM
Hmm, it's is definitely much easier to bash people for voting for their favorite character biasedly....until your own favorite comes up in a match he can't win :(

But Stark wins by a lot, and not because of overwhelming power, but because of his range+power. As physically weak as Mayuri is, CQC against him would be very risky. Also, people tend to forget how durable Mayuri is. Ceros really only seem to do superficial damage, and against someone who had survived with 3/4's of his torso missing, IMO, ceros won't do it alone.

The only option for Mayuri would be to take advantage of Starks half-assed personality, by having his bankai chase him around, w/o really putting any pressure on Stark to retaliate, and spread the poison around a huge radius to increase Starks chance of breathing it, and give him too much range, so that Mayuri can effectively dodge any cero thrown his way. Stark would then have to pull out the wolves, and once he does, Mayuri's only option would be to flee via liquidation, which for all intents and purposes is a win for Stark.

Sodalit
February 06, 2011, 10:50 AM
Starrl will win through superior firepower. Mayuri is so specialized in one aspect of combat, that he really sucks in other aspects - he is not good with close combat and ranged combat. He mostly resist on his Zanpaktou. And planning the battle long before any battle will start.
In this fight he won't have intel on his rival.

Starrk is 1 Espada - he is fast, strong, intelligent. He has immense spiritual power and can fight very well in CQC as well as in ranged combat.
He can shoot 1000 Cero in a blink of an eye, dammit!

Xerneas
February 06, 2011, 12:55 PM
This one is pretty simple. The only way Mayuri could win is if he had prep time and thats not gonna happen in a tournament format. Unlike Szayel he doesn't have a lot of tricky powers without planning. His poison is very dangerous but Starrk is much too fast for him to get a hit. Starrk would speed-blitz and murder him before he even realized what happened.

conn-man
February 06, 2011, 02:08 PM
It's sad Mayuri got stuck with Stark. Both are very dangerous but Stark is the primera and with that he is a beast.

Bankai poison is the best chance Mayuri has, but he is also the only shinigami that can regenerate limbs so that would be handy. But Starks long range powers are great, with the wolves he wouldn't even have to fight, just watch.

Sorry Mayuri, I wanted to vote for you but you got the first round shaft.

Takahashi
February 06, 2011, 03:35 PM
While I agree with most of the Stark support, there's one thing people are forgetting. Stark is lazy and doesn't really like to fight. The reason Barragan lost his fight is because his personality is intact, and makes him "arrogant". I think the same could be true here, Stark would likely just piss around for a good while until he actually gets the desire to see Mayuri's power. I seriously doubt he's going to release and just start chucking wolves off the bat.

Mayuri on the other hand is different, he's just so bloody evil that he'll be analyzing things right off the bat. Stark's clever, but Mayuri is a genius. Also, the poison spreads for I believe several miles, it sure as hell isn't easy to avoid.

Ahhhhh, I'm still gonna say Mayuri. I think he deserves a chance here, although I can already tell he's going to lose :XD

Crystal Black
February 06, 2011, 04:32 PM
I would give this to Starrk handidly. Starrk has always wanted to see a bankai or in this case face one, he was highly impressed or should I say nervous (lol) just from looking at Hitsugaya's HH. Mayuri hasn't shown anything in that scale but he has his science and inventions. He's smarter then Starrk no doubt but the difference in overall power is kinda of huge and hate to say this to because I'm a fan Mayuri's character. Mayuri's speed and Shunpo would be put to test against Cero Matrelleta.

Lunatic Scream
February 06, 2011, 06:39 PM
Mayuri is Captain level, sure. However, he is arguably the least powerful captain combat-wise. His power comes from preparation and knowledge about his opponent. I think it's safe to say that he wouldn't have any of that in this fight. Even if he did, it's hard to imagine him finding a way to handle Stark's abilities.

Mayuri's fight with Syazel was a lot of "aha! I just so happen to have the perfect counter to that!", which is kind of hard to do when Stark's abilities aren't some complicated puzzle... they're just flat out devastating.

kkck
February 07, 2011, 01:08 AM
The problem with this fight is that mayuri's power comes quite literally from knowledge. He definitely won't win in a physical confrontation but starrk would be in quite a bit of trouble if he dares fight in mayuri turf. The fight would end in a tie if mayuri finds himself in such a bad spot that he finds it convenient to liquidify.

xXan
February 07, 2011, 01:56 AM
While I agree with most of the Stark support, there's one thing people are forgetting. Stark is lazy and doesn't really like to fight. The reason Barragan lost his fight is because his personality is intact, and makes him "arrogant". I think the same could be true here, Stark would likely just piss around for a good while until he actually gets the desire to see Mayuri's power. I seriously doubt he's going to release and just start chucking wolves off the bat.

Mayuri on the other hand is different, he's just so bloody evil that he'll be analyzing things right off the bat. Stark's clever, but Mayuri is a genius. Also, the poison spreads for I believe several miles, it sure as hell isn't easy to avoid.

Ahhhhh, I'm still gonna say Mayuri. I think he deserves a chance here, although I can already tell he's going to lose :XD

Problem is back then he had no reason to fight. I think in this battles we asume both of them whant to fight. Barragan arrogance and Starrk not wanting to fight with Shunsui are not the same thing. Starrk was with Aizen so he could have some friends not fight a damn war.

Even WITH his laziness he was able to fight off Shunsui and Ukitake then Ukitake got taken out by WW and Starrk was able to take out Shunsui and if not for those 2 vizards he would have been dead, then he was able to take out those 2 vizards who are captain level + (because of there masks). You actualy belive that Mayuri is better then this guys? There is no way in hell for Mayuri to even survive the cero .. Forget the wolves.

Mayuri with no prep = Starrk STOMPS.

PS. If not for his prep he would have lost vs Szayel Aporro Granz who is nr.8 and you actualy belive he can take on nr.1? No chanse in hell.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 02:07 AM
Problem is back then he had no reason to fight. I think in this battles we asume both of them whant to fight. Barragan arrogance and Starrk not wanting to fight with Shunsui are not the same thing. Starrk was with Aizen so he could have some friends not fight a damn war.

True, but his nature in general is very lazy. Like I said, no way will he release right off the bat and start chucking wolves.


Even WITH his laziness he was able to fight off Shunsui and Ukitake then Ukitake got taken out by WW and Starrk was able to take out Shunsui and if not for those 2 vizards he would have been dead, then he was able to take out those 2 vizards who are captain level + (because of there masks). You actualy belive that Mayuri is better then this guys? There is no way in hell for Mayuri to even survive the cero .. Forget the wolves.

Again, that relies on Stark releasing. Stark will fight unreleased until he sees some form of motivation. Mayuri's Shikai is beast too, and while his swordsmanship is likely much worse than Stark, it only takes one hit.


Mayuri with no prep = Starrk STOMPS.

True, Mayuri always analyzes things before hand, and without that, he's at a disadvantage. At the same time, nothing we've seen from Stark indicates that he'll be Sonido-ing and going for the kill right off the bat. In fact, I'd bet on him just talking to Mayuri for a bit. Honestly, people trashed Zommari because he INTRODUCED himself, yet can come here and act like Stark is gonna crush Mayuri right when the fight starts? Please.


PS. If not for his prep he would have lost vs Szayel Aporro Granz who is nr.8 and you actualy belive he can take on nr.1? No chanse in hell.

I'm sorry, but that made me laugh my ass off :tem

Most Shinigami wouldn't be able to beat Szayel, his number doesn't matter when you consider what he can do. He was only beaten because he got out-haxxed.

Stark stomps Mayuri IF he wants to. His personality puts him at a big disadvantage against someone who thrives with extra time. I don't give it to Mayuri by a lot, but he's got quite a few techs that could end pretty much anyone.

xXan
February 07, 2011, 02:42 AM
True, but his nature in general is very lazy. Like I said, no way will he release right off the bat and start chucking wolves.



Again, that relies on Stark releasing. Stark will fight unreleased until he sees some form of motivation. Mayuri's Shikai is beast too, and while his swordsmanship is likely much worse than Stark, it only takes one hit.



True, Mayuri always analyzes things before hand, and without that, he's at a disadvantage. At the same time, nothing we've seen from Stark indicates that he'll be Sonido-ing and going for the kill right off the bat. In fact, I'd bet on him just talking to Mayuri for a bit. Honestly, people trashed Zommari because he INTRODUCED himself, yet can come here and act like Stark is gonna crush Mayuri right when the fight starts? Please.



I'm sorry, but that made me laugh my ass off :tem

Most Shinigami wouldn't be able to beat Szayel, his number doesn't matter when you consider what he can do. He was only beaten because he got out-haxxed.

Stark stomps Mayuri IF he wants to. His personality puts him at a big disadvantage against someone who thrives with extra time. I don't give it to Mayuri by a lot, but he's got quite a few techs that could end pretty much anyone.

Well if Shunsui can't get a hit on Starrk do you think Mayuri can? Of course i am ignoring the sneak attack and the following battle where Starrk had to fight after having a huge sword piercing his chest.
Starrk does not even need to release with those guns to fire cero. I remember him firing cero before his release. Mayuri is in no way a tank, a few hits and its over.

PS i am glad i can make you laugh lol but i hope you are not using the fact that a VC and Ishida where unable to dodge Szayel "hax" after how this guy was able to analize there tactics? Hell Renji was unable to even use his bankai. There is no proof to say a captain level can't dodge the 'hax". Mayuri never even tried to do it because he knew he would be invulnerable to the technique. Yes he has some nice things but there is a reason why he is nr.8, if he was so good i am sure Aizen would have send him vs the captain commander (a little joke :P).
Personaly i belive that Barragans, Starrk had way better HAX.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 03:18 AM
Well if Shunsui can't get a hit on Starrk do you think Mayuri can? Of course i am ignoring the sneak attack and the following battle where Starrk had to fight after having a huge sword piercing his chest.
Starrk does not even need to release with those guns to fire cero. I remember him firing cero before his release. Mayuri is in no way a tank, a few hits and its over.

Yeah, a few hits and Mayuri could drop. However, the same is true for Stark, it only takes one hit from Shikai or Bankai and he's done. Not saying it's likely, but entirely possible.


PS i am glad i can make you laugh lol but i hope you are not using the fact that a VC and Ishida where unable to dodge Szayel "hax" after how this guy was able to analize there tactics? Hell Renji was unable to even use his bankai. There is no proof to say a captain level can't dodge the 'hax". Mayuri never even tried to do it because he knew he would be invulnerable to the technique. Yes he has some nice things but there is a reason why he is nr.8, if he was so good i am sure Aizen would have send him vs the captain commander (a little joke :P).
Personaly i belive that Barragans, Starrk had way better HAX.

The carbon copy is basically undodgable, and the clones just keep splitting when you beat them. We have no idea if the wings are tough for a captain to dodge, but if they're caught, they're screwed, and his rebirth technique is cheap as hell.

Anyway, you were taking his win against Szayel as a negative, I don't think it is at all. A captain completely unprepared for him would be in serious trouble.

I do agree that Barragan is more hax obviously lol But Szayel is no joke either.

Mayuri CAN kill Stark, and I think with enough time and Stark being lax as usual, it'll happen.

xXan
February 07, 2011, 03:30 AM
Yeah, a few hits and Mayuri could drop. However, the same is true for Stark, it only takes one hit from Shikai or Bankai and he's done. Not saying it's likely, but entirely possible.



The carbon copy is basically undodgable, and the clones just keep splitting when you beat them. We have no idea if the wings are tough for a captain to dodge, but if they're caught, they're screwed, and his rebirth technique is cheap as hell.

Anyway, you were taking his win against Szayel as a negative, I don't think it is at all. A captain completely unprepared for him would be in serious trouble.

I do agree that Barragan is more hax obviously lol But Szayel is no joke either.

Mayuri CAN kill Stark, and I think with enough time and Stark being lax as usual, it'll happen.

Problem is that Szayel or Mayuri can't even see Starrk if he puts some offort into it. Starrk was able to take Orihime and run away before Ichigo and Ken where able to know what happened.
Any powerfull enough ranged caracter would demolish Mayuri. Think what happened with Isshide and his 'hax" ability. I am damn sure Starrk should be able to reproduce something close to that even before his released state. If not in his released state he most defenetly has cero as powerfull as that.
Also again if Shunsui was unable to get a hit on Starrk how would Mayuri do it? Shunsui is the seconds best captain after the CC (ignoring Aizen) and of course personal opinion.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 04:36 AM
Problem is that Szayel or Mayuri can't even see Starrk if he puts some offort into it. Starrk was able to take Orihime and run away before Ichigo and Ken where able to know what happened.

Yeah, that was crazy. Stark's so awesome :tem


Any powerfull enough ranged caracter would demolish Mayuri. Think what happened with Isshide and his 'hax" ability. I am damn sure Starrk should be able to reproduce something close to that even before his released state.

This is just my opinion, but I think that because that was Ishida's FGT, that it put him well above most people. I don't think Stark could replicate half the power Ishida did, but he could certainly fire more shots (999 to be exact :blink)



If not in his released state he most defenetly has cero as powerfull as that.

I don't think the Cero that barely hurt Shunsui at point blank is near as powerful as the shot that split a Bankai in half, put a massive hole in Mayuri and warped the environment behind him,.



Also again if Shunsui was unable to get a hit on Starrk how would Mayuri do it? Shunsui is the seconds best captain after the CC (ignoring Aizen) and of course personal opinion.

I figure a several mile spread of poison would do the trick :amuse

Mayuri has a lot of things that can keep him in the game, and I have doubts in Stark's desire to fight all out.

As far as swordsmanship and connecting with Shikai..........Uhh.....Mayuri takes the diluted Superhuman drug and gets Kongo Agon-like reflexes! :amuse

xXan
February 07, 2011, 06:15 AM
@Takahashi

I don't think the Cero that barely hurt Shunsui at point blank is near as powerful as the shot that split a Bankai in half, put a massive hole in Mayuri and warped the environment behind him,.

Well i gues you are right here but as you said he can fire more then 1 at a time to make up for the power diference. Also Shunsui i belive is above in durability.

I figure a several mile spread of poison would do the trick

Mayuri has a lot of things that can keep him in the game, and I have doubts in Stark's desire to fight all out.

As far as swordsmanship and connecting with Shikai..........Uhh.....Mayuri takes the diluted Superhuman drug and gets Kongo Agon-like reflexes!

Mayuri can release all the poison he wants i am sure Starrk has the speed to keep out of range. Starrk probably has 20x Ishida's speed. I remember Ishida saying he can't even follow Ulquiorra st.2 and terminator-Ichigo with his eyes in the anime (not cannon i know) but still.
All Starrk has to do is keep out of range (easy for him) and keep blasting.
Also i asume Starrk actualy wants to fight. What is the point that he goes there to make a picnic or what? I was under the impresion that both sides actualy want to fight. Imagine a fight with Unohana. Are we going to asume she will go there to heal the enemy or exchange words of friendship? I remember some modertator saying how the fact that 2 shinigami know one another is irrelevant and we should asume they whant to beat one another. To asume Starrk goes there with no desire to fight because he had no desire to fight for Aizen is a exageration. If you whant to play it this way Starrk is just going to use his speed to leave.
As for that drug ... I never got to see it work that way how about you? We have no idea how that would work and if it would work why not give it to all the captains so they can become captain planet and destroy Aizen and all the Espada ... See? Makes no sense.

In the fights where Mayuri won (or was close FGT Ishida mode) with that thing he made (the girl, forgot her name), here he does not have it. Prep, here he does not have it. His fights where with people way below Starrk in power. Also keep in mind that EVEN IF he can poison Starrk lilinette is still there and can blow his head off (guns mode). I mean look at Mayuri i really don't remember him showing ANY speed feats that would put him anywhere even on Ishida level (i could be rong).
The fact that 2 captains and 2 hollofied captains where needed to take down Starrk should tell you something. I know Starrk never defeated all of them BUT he was in a fight with all of them.

Mayuri chanse of winning this is probably somewhere at 0,001% chanse for something crazy to happen like the sky falling in Starrk's head or him poisoning himself and lilinette.

tousendrinksbleach
February 07, 2011, 09:28 AM
mayuri lost to ishida after he broke his gloves (meaning he was weak to a sudden powerful power-up) .so even if he fights well agaisnt a released stark , the wolves will get the better of him ...

Bugzee
February 07, 2011, 10:10 AM
Mayuri seems to rely extensively on prior knowledge and research on his potential future victims/enemies. Sure, he has a lot of intel on hollows and whatnot but I don't think much of his tricks would work on Starrk right off the bat.

Starrk ain't the type to fall for Mayuri's tricks/traps imo. One on one I would say Starrk would be the eventual victor of this fight. My vote goes to Starrk strictly on the basis that Mayuri hasn't spent a huge amount of time prior to this fight gathering intel on Starrk. :p

UchihaHunter
February 07, 2011, 10:15 AM
Wtf did I just read? Are we saying that Stark's guns can shoot on their own, like they were doing in the anime? Aren't we considering only the manga as canon?

And Mayuri isn't some slob, we have seen him shunpo before...he's not on the level of Shunsui or anything, but he can move...

Also, I agree with Takahashi...people acted like Zommari talking meant that he was going to give Hacchi his life story and get decapitated, but Stark didn't take the fight seriously until he saw Hitsugaya and Soi Fong's Bankais...yet people are assuming Stark is going to release straight off the bat and pwn with 1000 ceros?

xXan
February 07, 2011, 10:28 AM
Wtf did I just read? Are we saying that Stark's guns can shoot on their own, like they were doing in the anime? Aren't we considering only the manga as canon?

And Mayuri isn't some slob, we have seen him shunpo before...he's not on the level of Shunsui or anything, but he can move...

Also, I agree with Takahashi...people acted like Zommari talking meant that he was going to give Hacchi his life story and get decapitated, but Stark didn't take the fight seriously until he saw Hitsugaya and Soi Fong's Bankais...yet people are assuming Stark is going to release straight off the bat and pwn with 1000 ceros?

Well i got to see the anime just recently and i figured it happened in the manga to. If that is the case i take back my words.

AlB
February 07, 2011, 10:29 AM
While I agree with most of the Stark support, there's one thing people are forgetting. Stark is lazy and doesn't really like to fight. The reason Barragan lost his fight is because his personality is intact, and makes him "arrogant". I think the same could be true here, Stark would likely just piss around for a good while until he actually gets the desire to see Mayuri's power. I seriously doubt he's going to release and just start chucking wolves off the bat.

Mayuri on the other hand is different, he's just so bloody evil that he'll be analyzing things right off the bat. Stark's clever, but Mayuri is a genius. Also, the poison spreads for I believe several miles, it sure as hell isn't easy to avoid.

Ahhhhh, I'm still gonna say Mayuri. I think he deserves a chance here, although I can already tell he's going to lose :XD

when I tried to bring in Zommari's personality in Zommari vs Hachi you dismissed my comments and now you say that Stark will lose because he has lazy personality?! man you rock! :amuse
simply an observation.


my opinion here that the best result for Mayuri would be draw e.g. they both die. Stark inhales poison but his wolves ravage Mayuri. Still, Stark is fast even in his RS, and if Eye-Patch-less Kenpachi and Bankai Ichigo couldn't even follow his movements I really don't see how Mayuri, who hasn't shown any significant speed feats, can beat Stark. that and remember he won't have time to come up for solution against wolves it's not as if Stark will spawn them and kindly invite Mayuri to examine them.

Even though I consider Stark a one-trick phony Espada I have to admit: that trick is way too broken.

UchihaHunter
February 07, 2011, 01:06 PM
when I tried to bring in Zommari's personality in Zommari vs Hachi you dismissed my comments and now you say that Stark will lose because he has lazy personality?! man you rock! :amuse
simply an observation.
The difference is that in Zommari vs. Hacchi, you and others acted like Zommari acted the way he did arbitrarily...it was pretty obvious he was trying to humble Byakuya, as impossible as that is to do. He attempted to punish Byakuya for his pride, and he tried to out-ass Byakuya.

Stark on the other hand explicitly tried to not fight seriously for quite some time in the fight. He even suggested just pretending to fight! Dude didn't show any interest in the fight until seeing Hitsugaya and Soi Fong's Bankais. Mayuri would be interested from the start; he gets a chance to experiment on the Primera Espada! There's no reason to think that Stark would go all out from the beginning; he didn't even try to take charge when Aizen was imprisoned in flames...he's content to basically laze about.

AlB
February 07, 2011, 01:55 PM
The difference is that in Zommari vs. Hacchi, you and others acted like Zommari acted the way he did arbitrarily...it was pretty obvious he was trying to humble Byakuya, as impossible as that is to do. He attempted to punish Byakuya for his pride, and he tried to out-ass Byakuya.

Stark on the other hand explicitly tried to not fight seriously for quite some time in the fight. He even suggested just pretending to fight! Dude didn't show any interest in the fight until seeing Hitsugaya and Soi Fong's Bankais. Mayuri would be interested from the start; he gets a chance to experiment on the Primera Espada! There's no reason to think that Stark would go all out from the beginning; he didn't even try to take charge when Aizen was imprisoned in flames...he's content to basically laze about.

ok, suppose Mayuri, by some holy freaking miracle, will have a chance to examine Stark... what, he's going to examine the molecular structure of his goatee or what? I mean if you say that stark won't go into RS immediately... then what's there to examine?! ;)

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 02:02 PM
The difference is that in Zommari vs. Hacchi, you and others acted like Zommari acted the way he did arbitrarily...it was pretty obvious he was trying to humble Byakuya, as impossible as that is to do. He attempted to punish Byakuya for his pride, and he tried to out-ass Byakuya.

Stark on the other hand explicitly tried to not fight seriously for quite some time in the fight. He even suggested just pretending to fight! Dude didn't show any interest in the fight until seeing Hitsugaya and Soi Fong's Bankais. Mayuri would be interested from the start; he gets a chance to experiment on the Primera Espada! There's no reason to think that Stark would go all out from the beginning; he didn't even try to take charge when Aizen was imprisoned in flames...he's content to basically laze about.

Pretty much this^

Introducing yourself ≠ Not having a desire to fight

I DO think that a personality like Stark's puts him at a disadvantage. If Stark was just the type to introduce himself before a fight to show respect like Zommari, I wouldn't take it against him.
[hr]

ok, suppose Mayuri, by some holy freaking miracle, will have a chance to examine Stark... what, he's going to examine the molecular structure of his goatee or what? I mean if you say that stark won't go into RS immediately... then what's there to examine?! ;)

What? Mayuri would paralyze him and take him back to the lab if he wanted to examine him. Mayuri doesn't do calculations and biological tests WHILE he fights.

UchihaHunter was showing that Mayuri WILL have motivation to fight, Stark will not.

AlB
February 07, 2011, 02:09 PM
What? Mayuri would paralyze him and take him back to the lab if he wanted to examine him. Mayuri doesn't do calculations and biological tests WHILE he fights.

UchihaHunter was showing that Mayuri WILL have motivation to fight, Stark will not.

that's the thing dude!
You really expect Mayuri to be able to paralyze Stark with his melee weapon? Mayuri's only shot here is to go Bankai immediately but even that won't be enough against wolves.

and I didn't mean tests. I meant rudimentary analysis based on visual perception.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 02:13 PM
that's the thing dude!
You really expect Mayuri to be able to paralyze Stark with his melee weapon? Mayuri's only shot here is to go Bankai immediately but even that won't be enough against wolves.

and I didn't mean tests. I meant rudimentary analysis based on visual perception.

What? I never said he WOULD be able to. You suggested that he would examine his goatee.. I was saying that his actual examination would come from him being the subject of tests back at the lab. Still, you're missing the point.

Mayuri=wants to fight
Stark=wants to nap

Jackk
February 07, 2011, 02:18 PM
Pretty much this^

Introducing yourself ≠ Not having a desire to fight

I DO think that a personality like Stark's puts him at a disadvantage. If Stark was just the type to introduce himself before a fight to show respect like Zommari, I wouldn't take it against him.
<hr noshade size="1">


I expect you to use that logic when defending Shunsui then--oh wait...


What? Mayuri would paralyze him and take him back to the lab if he wanted to examine him. Mayuri doesn't do calculations and biological tests WHILE he fights.

How is Mayuri going to paralyze Stark with his shikai if he's not even fast enough to catch Stark? ...

Also, Mayuri may not do biological tests while he fights, but I would think that he does do calculations considering he is pretty smart. If that's not the case then Mayuri's intellect is really much much lower than Kisuke's...since Kisuke can actually analyze the muscle movements of his opponents and even analyze the spirit particle composition of his opponent's energy blasts in order to dodge and/or even adjust his own energy blast to exactly match his opponent's and cancel out the attacks. That's some serious calculations in mid-fight lol...

Problem for Mayuri is that he probably won't get enough time to do any serious analysis regarding Stark's techniques, and well... Mayuri is just not physically capable of keeping up with someone like Stark. I mean, Mayuri may be pretty smart, but power and speed is very important too... and I think Stark has a clear advantage there. Besides, Stark has shown that he's pretty analytical himself, so yeah. Mayuri's best chance is with his Bankai's poison, but even then Stark may be just too fast for Mayuri. I think Stark wins this.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 02:25 PM
I expect you to use that logic when defending Shunsui then--oh wait...

What?



How is Mayuri going to paralyze Stark with his shikai if he's not even fast enough to catch Stark? ...

..........

He said
ok, suppose Mayuri, by some holy freaking miracle, will have a chance to examine Stark... what, he's going to examine the molecular structure of his goatee or what?

AIB was responding to something UchihaHunter said, about Mayuri wanting to fight because he has a chance to examine the Primera.

He was suggesting that Mayuri has nothing to examine, but he does, Mayuri catches people for a reason, to do tests.

Pretty much, he took one word, ran with it for some reason, and I was trying to get him to understand that the example was used to show that Mayuri will want to fight, and Stark won't care. This has NOTHING to do with examining, and NOTHING to do with whether or not he is getting Stark with his Shikai.


Also, Mayuri may not do biological tests while he fights, but I would think that he does do calculations considering he is pretty smart. If that's not the case then Mayuri's intellect is really much much lower than Kisuke's...since Kisuke can actually analyze the muscle movements of his opponents and even analyze the spirit particle composition of his opponent's energy blasts in order to dodge and/or even adjust his own energy blast to exactly match his opponent's and cancel out the attacks. That's some serious calculations in mid-fight lol...

head explodes*

Missing the point! Mayuri will be doing tests on a captured Stark(NO NOT SAYING HE WILL CATCH HIM), he won't be analyzing a goatee.


Problem for Mayuri is that he probably won't get enough time to do any serious analysis regarding Stark's techniques, and well... Mayuri is just not physically capable of keeping up with someone like Stark. I mean, Mayuri may be pretty smart, but power and speed is very important too... and I think Stark has a clear advantage there. Besides, Stark has shown that he's pretty analytical himself, so yeah. Mayuri's best chance is with his Bankai's poison, but even then Stark may be just too fast for Mayuri. I think Stark wins this.

How does Stark avoid a poison that spreads for miles though? I can honestly see Mayuri winning a lot, or at least stalemating with that.

conn-man
February 07, 2011, 02:34 PM
@Takahashi
you make the best argument for Mayuri by saying that his poison spreads for miles, thats unavoidable. Its no different than Stark saying he can fire 1000 cero at a time, he may not have ever done it but it can be done.

1000 cero or the wolves vs a super cloud of instakill poison. This fight could easily end in a draw. Or Mayuri could take his damage and most likely liquify afterwards, and Stark would still lose to the poison! In this scenario you could arguably call Mayuri the winner.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 02:38 PM
@Takahashi
you make the best argument for Mayuri by saying that his poison spreads for miles, thats unavoidable. Its no different than Stark saying he can fire 1000 cero at a time, he may not have ever done it but it can be done.

1000 cero or the wolves vs a super cloud of instakill poison. This fight could easily end in a draw. Or Mayuri could take his damage and most likely liquify afterwards, and Stark would still lose to the poison! In this scenario you could arguably call Mayuri the winner.

That's like the cheapest thing I've ever heard. Coat the whole battlefield in poison, and then turn into goop and return the winner in a few days :tem

Gran Maestro
February 07, 2011, 02:44 PM
you make the best argument for Mayuri by saying that his poison spreads for miles, thats unavoidable.

Has it ever been stated in the manga that the poison spreads for miles? Because if this is the case, I guess all people in Seireitei would have died when Mayuri released his bankai against Uryu Ishida. And I also think the poison loses its potency as the distance from Konjiki Ashisogi Jizo increases, and someone of Stark's strength would be safe against the poison by keeping his distance.

tousendrinksbleach
February 07, 2011, 02:47 PM
again , ishida defeated mayuri (more like one-shoted) so starkk should do the same with his wolves
ofc i'm not saying that thequincis' final form is weaker than starkk at full strengh , i'm saying ishida was weak compared to a captain and that's why his super-quincy mode would'nt be stronger than serious starkk ...

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 02:48 PM
Has it ever been stated in the manga that the poison spreads for miles? Because if this is the case, I guess all people in Seireitei would have died when Mayuri released his bankai against Uryu Ishida. And I also think the poison loses its potency as the distance from Konjiki Ashisogi Jizo increases, and someone of Stark's strength would be safe against the poison by keeping his distance.

A 100 Ken (?) Radius, which I believe is several miles.

Gran Maestro
February 07, 2011, 02:55 PM
A 100 Ken (?) Radius, which I believe is several miles.

Ken means sword, does it mean 100-sword radius (=almost 100 meters)?

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 02:58 PM
Ken means sword, does it mean 100-sword radius (=almost 100 meters)?

Not sure. Last time I read it I remember their being a little note that said a couple miles, which is way off if it's only 100 meters. If it really IS only 100 meters, well Stark can Sonido that with ease. The thing is, it only has to touch him once, so I still have faith that it can hit quite frequently. It hit Ishida even though he blew the thing up.

Can anyone confirm?

conn-man
February 07, 2011, 02:59 PM
100 mile radius, I just checked the Viz translation and while they maye jumble up some wording Im sure they wouldnt screw up a numerical translation.

Stark wont be able to run from that, thats just not how Bleach fights operate.

edit: maybe they did screw that up, still not sure though.
yeah the viz trans is wrong, granted the raws do say ken, ken being a little under 2 meters. Oh well, 200 meters is still very nice.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 03:00 PM
100 mile radius, I just checked the Viz translation and while they maye jumble up some wording Im sure they wouldnt screw up a numerical translation.

Stark wont be able to run from that, thats just not how Bleach fights operate.

100 MILES................

Holy hell. Mayuri beats everyone then?

Perhaps due to the Bankai exploding, it didn't end up killing everyone in SS? :p

Gran Maestro
February 07, 2011, 03:00 PM
I had a look at the raw, it says ken (間) which is approximately equal to 6 feet. 100 ken is equal to 600 feet.

[Edit] Sorry, the dictionary says 1.818 meters but I don't know whether it is 6 feet or more than a mile.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 03:02 PM
I had a look at the raw, it says ken (間) which is approximately equal to 6 feet. 100 ken is equal to 600 feet.

But if Ken=sword, why 6 feet? I didn't know Sephiroth's sword was a unit of measurement :amuse

lol, this is awesome, it seems like no one can get the distance right. Either it basically wipes out the planet, or just the living room :)

EureKA
February 07, 2011, 03:06 PM
Mayuri still has that ability to revert back to goo when seriously damaged, you need an immaculate headshot to bring the guy down for good. Stark is beyond him when considering speed strength and skill.

The only reason i'd consider stark is because his wolves. His ceros didn't seem that effective (although aren't most ceros just shit??) but the wolves can make it past the poison since I don't think he can poison pieces of reiatsu, don't quote me on that.

Mayuri has his intelligence and weird gadget's going for him so I wouldn't be too fast to right him off either. He came up with a serum to slow down a persons perception of time dramatically so he has some weird fighting abilities to be sure.

I just think the wolves would be enough for stark to bring down mayuri into a bad situation for him to unleash the death blow.

Gran Maestro
February 07, 2011, 03:11 PM
But if Ken=sword, why 6 feet? I didn't know Sephiroth's sword was a unit of measurement :amuse

The kanji for sword is different. :)

I looked it up, 1 ken is just under 2 meters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_%28architecture%29). So yes, 1 ken is 6 feet.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 03:14 PM
Ahh so roughly 200 Meters. Not too shabby, but definitely a buzz kill when that one translation said 100 miles :P

conn-man
February 07, 2011, 03:19 PM
Ahh so roughly 200 Meters. Not too shabby, but definitely a buzz kill when that one translation said 100 miles :P

not bad though, two football feilds long in all directions, Bleach fighters dont normally get that far away from each other. Mayuri could do lots of things to distract Stark from the faint haze comming from Konjikis mouth.

btw I jumped the gun and voted for stark a while ago..:darn
I suddenly have so much more faith that mayuri could beat him.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 03:22 PM
not bad though, two football feilds long in all directions, Bleach fighters dont normally get that far away from each other. Mayuri could do lots of things to distract Stark from the faint haze comming from Konjikis mouth.

btw I jumped the gun and voted for stark a while ago..:darn
I suddenly have so much more faith that mayuri could beat him.

Haha, this was the first time I actually waited before voting, glad I did. Although I voted for Rose and then got convinced of the opposite half way through, doh.

By the way, since the winner of this faces Ichigo, are we assuming he's Dangai Ichigo?

Pre-Dangai Ichigo

AlB
February 07, 2011, 03:33 PM
not bad though, two football feilds long in all directions, Bleach fighters dont normally get that far away from each other. Mayuri could do lots of things to distract Stark from the faint haze comming from Konjikis mouth.

btw I jumped the gun and voted for stark a while ago..:darn
I suddenly have so much more faith that mayuri could beat him.

poison is not instant kill... right? I mean, if it was Ishida would die immediately after inhaling it.
besides, Mayuri liquified himself after Ishida blew a hole in him. Stark's wolves will blow him up entirely lol. I mean, Stark blows Mayuri to bits and then slowly dies from poisoning.
Closest result would be draw in my opinion... but since Stark dies after Mayuri... I guess I'll vote for Stark haha :D

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 03:36 PM
poison is not instant kill... right? I mean, if it was Ishida would die immediately after inhaling it.
besides, Mayuri liquified himself after Ishida blew a hole in him. Stark's wolves will blow him up entirely lol. I mean, Stark blows Mayuri to bits and then slowly dies from poisoning.
Closest result would be draw in my opinion... but since Stark dies after Mayuri... I guess I'll vote for Stark haha :D

Haha, so Ichigo will get to fight a dead Stark then :tem

Oh, and thanks Tsukisama for clearing that up.

UchihaHunter
February 07, 2011, 04:34 PM
Or...Stark dies and Mayuri turns to liquid :D

tousendrinksbleach
February 07, 2011, 04:40 PM
... forgot about his liquid form
but i think as a captain (or maybe as a psycho...) he can't run away if his opopnent is alive (pride and stuffs...)

AlB
February 07, 2011, 05:31 PM
Haha, so Ichigo will get to fight a dead Stark then :tem

Oh, and thanks Tsukisama for clearing that up.

Well, up until now he has survived against ridiculously stronger opponents through cheap deus ex machina power upgrades. Some differentiation is in order :tem

:offtopic I actually believe that whoever advances from here will totally rape Ichigo (If people don't vote based on popularity)

freshseth83
February 07, 2011, 05:49 PM
'Ken' equaling sword would just mean sword as an extension. A weapon is an extension of your body correct? So an average sized Katana being about 3-4 feet in length, added to your arm reach of maybe 2-3 feet, would be about 6-7 feet. So it makes sense that it'd be 1.8m as a measurement of 'ken'.

I gave this to Starrk because he's way too fast for one, another reason is his cero's could blast away the smoke if he can't sonido out of it's range.

I just have one gripe with some of the comments here... why are people always trying to degrade the captains feats by saying things like 'if the vizards wouldn't have interfered, Shunsui would have lost'... blah blah; to me, that makes no sense. He got hit in the back with a cero, point blank from the strongest espada, yet brushed it off. Why fight when you see your old comrades back with strong masks? That's my take on it. All the 'don't get into other people's fights' became a moot point when they were about to die though.

Back on topic. Mayuri has a good deal of knowledge, but that doesn't help him unless he makes specific devices to stop ceros or slow Starrk or prevent him from releasing. I doubt that happens, and from the rules it doesn't look like that's the case. So Starrk is who I'll go with.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
February 07, 2011, 05:53 PM
Not sure if anybody brought this up, but would Mayuri's anti-arrancar mines come into play...I mean he did create one and give it to Ishida. while it didn't do too much to Yammy, it still packs a punch.

Raizen
February 07, 2011, 06:07 PM
Mayuri is without a doubt the weakest captain in terms of power and combat abilities. But he does excel in intelligence and planning. Unfortunately, in order to utilize his exceptional planning skills, he has to know what his opponent is capable of. IN this case, he doesn't. And starkks is no slouch either when it comes to analyzing and studying his opponents.

Its true that starks will not release his full power the moment the battle start, he will start off lazy like in the story. But he adjusts his strength based on his opponent as well. Even taking it easy, he was able to read shunsu's movements and understand the difference between his right and left hand slash (although shunsui was playing as well). So even if he is not serious, chances of mayuri getting a hit in with his shikai is still slim due to the fact that starks is agile and adjust his strength accordingly.

Even without releasing, he can still fire ceros with no charge time and he's fast. Mayuri is seriously outclassed. Poisoning starks is his best bet, but i don't see that happening considering how smart and quick starks is.

Starks win

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 07:35 PM
Not sure if anybody brought this up, but would Mayuri's anti-arrancar mines come into play...I mean he did create one and give it to Ishida. while it didn't do too much to Yammy, it still packs a punch.

I forgot about that. There's also the serum that can regrow limbs, and both versions of the Superhuman drug too. Considering he caries around a vial of the drug, I'd say it's acceptable to let him use it in this fight right?

Tsukisama
February 07, 2011, 07:43 PM
I forgot about that. There's also the serum that can regrow limbs, and both versions of the Superhuman drug too. Considering he caries around a vial of the drug, I'd say it's acceptable to let him use it in this fight right?

Yes, those are acceptable for the fight, as he seemed to be just carrying those around on his person without any sort of specific preparation.

Concerning the anti-arrancar mines, those seem a bit more preparation-specific. If you want, I shall confer with the other mods in regard to these mines (although I doubt they would be all that useful in this battle).

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 07:48 PM
Yes, those are acceptable for the fight, as he seemed to be just carrying those around on his person without any sort of specific preparation.

Concerning the anti-arrancar mines, those seem a bit more preparation-specific. If you want, I shall confer with the other mods in regard to these mines (although I doubt they would be all that useful in this battle).

Considering they failed to kill the weakest sealed Espada, I'd imagine they're close to a non-issue against Stark. Perhaps they could surprise him and make an opening, but nothing significant.

I'd imagine that the "suitable for use" Superhuman drug is not allowed though, as we've never seen it in action, it was just mentioned.

But all right then, Mayuri gets another potential game changer. The only issue is how is it administered? It's in a vial, not a syringe, so I'd imagine it just needs skin contact. hmm.

Tsukisama
February 07, 2011, 07:54 PM
I'd imagine that the "suitable for use" Superhuman drug is not allowed though, as we've never seen it in action, it was just mentioned.

Yeah, it probably should not be used.


But all right then, Mayuri gets another potential game changer. The only issue is how is it administered? It's in a vial, not a syringe, so I'd imagine it just needs skin contact. hmm.

Well, the way it was used in the manga IIRC was by Szayel reforming inside of Nemu, who had the drug in herself. Most serums usually require to be taken internally and not just surface contact. So, I think you should probably treat it as such.

I imagine that Mayuri probably does carry a syringe on his person. (That is not something that would require large speculation to assume. :amuse) If you didn't want to use a syringe, then you could try to think of some way to get the opponent (Starrk) to imbibe the drug.

Takahashi
February 07, 2011, 07:59 PM
Well, the way it was used in the manga IIRC was by Szayel reforming inside of Nemu, who had the drug in herself. Most serums usually require to be taken internally and not just surface contact. So, I think you should probably treat it as such.

I imagine that Mayuri probably does carry a syringe on his person. (That is not something that would require large speculation to assume. :amuse) If you didn't want to use a syringe, then you could try to think of some way to get the opponent (Starrk) to imbibe the drug.

Alright, Stark makes wolves, Mayuri puts some drops into their doggy water bowls, and because they're a part of Stark, it gets Stark too! :tem

....Maybe not. I can't think of a way for that to actually work. Oh! I know, because Stark's so lazy and loves to nap, he'll eventually yawn, and then!.......

Maybe we should just go with your syringe idea :amuse

xXan
February 08, 2011, 02:07 AM
The gas cloud.
That thing would never hit Starrk after his "Orihime" feat. The moment the gas comes out he can move out of the way easy. You can imagine what reflexes Starrk has and what speed to completly baffled Ichigo and Ken. Starrk can leteraly move in the blink of an eye. The only thing Mayuri could do is find a way to distract him but how in the world could Mayuri do that when he would be completly overwhelmed by Starrk.

Turning into liquid.
Well this is a non-factor. If Mayuri does that he would incapacitate himself and lose the fight lol.

I realy don't see how Mayuri can win this when he lost the most important thing if we go with the tournament rules. His ability to prep. I said this before and i am going to stick with it. Starrk does not just win .. He stomps (my opinion).

xXAshisogiJizoXx
February 08, 2011, 08:40 AM
The gas cloud.
That thing would never hit Starrk after his "Orihime" feat. The moment the gas comes out he can move out of the way easy. You can imagine what reflexes Starrk has and what speed to completly baffled Ichigo and Ken. Starrk can leteraly move in the blink of an eye. The only thing Mayuri could do is find a way to distract him but how in the world could Mayuri do that when he would be completly overwhelmed by Starrk.

Turning into liquid.
Well this is a non-factor. If Mayuri does that he would incapacitate himself and lose the fight lol.

I realy don't see how Mayuri can win this when he lost the most important thing if we go with the tournament rules. His ability to prep. I said this before and i am going to stick with it. Starrk does not just win .. He stomps (my opinion).

I don't disagree, but...just look at my username...I have to try:sad

...What would happen if you killed lillynette BTW? Even though that probably isnt an option.

xXan
February 08, 2011, 08:59 AM
I don't disagree, but...just look at my username...I have to try:sad

...What would happen if you killed lillynette BTW? Even though that probably isnt an option.

I can't say for sure but he probably is not going to be able to use resurrection. Now Starrk even after splitting himself in 2 (Starrk and Lilynette) he still had more reiatsu then Barragan and the rest of the espada (ignoring Yammy lvl 2). Even with no resurrection i can still see Starrk winning here by keeping his distance and spaming cero, but this is a personal opinion.

Of coruse i see no way for Mayuri to kill Lilynette if we consider the masive diference in speed between the 2 (Starrk and Mayuri).

thornofcarrion
February 08, 2011, 11:43 AM
Mayuri is no doubt is a very dangerous opponent but I can see Starrk winning this one. The wolves and the guns will most probably do enough damage. Mayuri will need to get close enough to inject some of his crazy stuff, like he did against Appo. Mayuri's bankai always looked big and clumsy. His bankai may actually provide opening for Starrk. Its just a bad match up for a captain like Mayuri.

Tsukisama
February 08, 2011, 12:09 PM
...What would happen if you killed lillynette BTW? Even though that probably isnt an option.

In case anyone was still wondering, this is an option. Lillynette is part of the Primera package. So, although we did not specifically mention her, she is there with Starrk at the beginning of the match, as he is unreleased.

I don't think Starrk would allow his precious other half to be harmed, and so he will definitely be keeping her quite safe. This probably won't affect the match much, but yeah, she's there too. :amuse

xXan
February 08, 2011, 01:17 PM
In case anyone was still wondering, this is an option. Lillynette is part of the Primera package. So, although we did not specifically mention her, she is there with Starrk at the beginning of the match, as he is unreleased.

I don't think Starrk would allow his precious other half to be harmed, and so he will definitely be keeping her quite safe. This probably won't affect the match much, but yeah, she's there too. :amuse

I think he was asking what would happen if Mayuri would find a way to kill her before Starrk would release and not if she is in the tournament with Starrk:P

Takahashi
February 08, 2011, 03:47 PM
I think he was asking what would happen if Mayuri would find a way to kill her before Starrk would release and not if she is in the tournament with Starrk:P

It's still relevant, I wasn't sure if we were allowing that. At any rate, it gives Mayuri another chance to win this, if only slightly.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 08, 2011, 04:07 PM
I don't see any chance for Mayuri. Even if he kills Lily nett he is still way weaker than unreleased Starrk in any way of combat. And I suppose we asume that he doesn't know anything against Starrk and doesn't have any time to prepare the battlefield.:)

conn-man
February 08, 2011, 04:30 PM
I dont know, Mayuri doesnt seem to have any trouble swinging and stabbing with his zan. He went through Ishida and Nemu(who he claims is pretty durable) in one slash. He could probably hold his own against an unreleased espada, even Stark.

Hes not to slow either, he shunpo'd right next to Ishida in the amount of time it took the arrow to travel from the back of his head to the ground. One cut, even a knick, from ashisogi jizo would probably spread through his whole body and at least slow him down if not stop stark.

also his grapple gun arm could be used to create and opening.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
February 08, 2011, 06:18 PM
I dont know, Mayuri doesnt seem to have any trouble swinging and stabbing with his zan. He went through Ishida and Nemu(who he claims is pretty durable) in one slash. He could probably hold his own against an unreleased espada, even Stark.

Hes not to slow either, he shunpo'd right next to Ishida in the amount of time it took the arrow to travel from the back of his head to the ground. One cut, even a knick, from ashisogi jizo would probably spread through his whole body and at least slow him down if not stop stark.

also his grapple gun arm could be used to create and opening.

True, plus ishida noted that while it only "comes in waves", Mayuri is capable of releasing a good deal amount of reiatsu, and it was even shown visibly. Whats more is the ability to camaflouge himself, since Stark has no means shown of detecting reiatsu. Element of surprise for Mayuri can certainly make up for Starks superior speed.

Having reread his SS fight, i have more hope for Mayuri, but still think its Starks battle to lose.

Also, since it was referenced, could Mayuri possibly use the superhuman drug for himself, since he talked about a dilution for practical use.

Sydin
February 09, 2011, 12:37 AM
Depends on prep time. Just gonna put it out there that Mayuri is like Batman: given enough planning he can take down any opponent. If Stark could a) get the drop on him and then b) evade the lolparalysis then finally evade c) bankai lolpoison, he could blow Mayuri out of the water.

tl;dr - Mayuri has about 200 tricks up his sleeve, and Stark shoots wolves.

xXan
February 09, 2011, 02:18 AM
Depends on prep time. Just gonna put it out there that Mayuri is like Batman: given enough planning he can take down any opponent. If Stark could a) get the drop on him and then b) evade the lolparalysis then finally evade c) bankai lolpoison, he could blow Mayuri out of the water.

tl;dr - Mayuri has about 200 tricks up his sleeve, and Stark shoots wolves.

I sugest you read the rules ... There is no prep time.
This is like Superman vs Batman, Superman stomps Bats any day.
Also Starrk way faster then Mayuri there is no way in hell mayuri get's the drop on anything.

Smerten
February 09, 2011, 01:05 PM
Starrk is probably the superior long-range fighter in the series ( maybe a kido user could say otherwise, but you get the point). Without prep time (read the rules), Kurotsuchi got obliterated by Ishida in his final form. So without a prepped anti-cero scheme he'll get nuked into obliovion by Starrk, seeing the maniac lacks the physical prowess to dodge it. Even Shunsui would've been roasted if Ukitake had not intervened. Besides, Cero are being heavily understimated, especially when they're used by powerful Arrancar. Look at Ulquiorra.

freshseth83
February 09, 2011, 03:22 PM
Starrk is probably the superior long-range fighter in the series ( maybe a kido user could say otherwise, but you get the point). Without prep time (read the rules), Kurotsuchi got obliterated by Ishida in his final form. So without a prepped anti-cero scheme he'll get nuked into obliovion by Starrk, seeing the maniac lacks the physical prowess to dodge it. Even Shunsui would've been roasted if Ukitake had not intervened. Besides, Cero are being heavily understimated, especially when they're used by powerful Arrancar. Look at Ulquiorra.

Why do people insist on saying Starrk could have 'roasted' Shunsui? he hit him dead in the back with a cero from his gun, he didn't get 'roasted' then did he? As powerful as the Espada's are, the captains of 'equal rank' are stronger. This has been proven over and over. The espada were nothing more than road blocks to keep the captains busy while Aizen sat back and used his reiatsu to master the hoguyoku.

I do believe Mayrui is outclassed here though. He might be able to defeat a few espada, but i don't think Starrk is one of them.

Broken_Wing
February 09, 2011, 05:51 PM
Why do people insist on saying Starrk could have 'roasted' Shunsui? he hit him dead in the back with a cero from his gun, he didn't get 'roasted' then did he?

Because we know Starrk isnt limited to one cero at a time....

Even with his use of wolves against Love and Rose he was just standing back with his hands in his pockets. Giving them breathing time and conversing with them.

Its implied that Shunsui, Love or Rose who have needed to go Bankai to counter Starrks abilities 1vs1.

hakuthehedgehog
February 09, 2011, 06:20 PM
I fail to see how Stark would survive Mayuri's poison: I doubt his reatsu is high enough for him to just shrug it away: no one was overwhelmed by the Espada's reatsu, heck even the Omaeda wasn't weakened by Barrangans reatsu, so I doubt Stark could do anything to Mayuri.

Then Mayuri stabs himself while Stark slowly dies.

Raizen
February 09, 2011, 07:15 PM
I fail to see how Stark would survive Mayuri's poison: I doubt his reatsu is high enough for him to just shrug it away: no one was overwhelmed by the Espada's reatsu, heck even the Omaeda wasn't weakened by Barrangans reatsu, so I doubt Stark could do anything to Mayuri.

Then Mayuri stabs himself while Stark slowly dies.
But how will mayuri catch starks and use the drug?
Mayuri is not as fast as shunsui, and shunsui had difficulty hitting him (and likewise with starks)

As for poison, starks can sonido away and then shoot ceros from a distance
[hr]

Because we know Starrk isnt limited to one cero at a time....

Even with his use of wolves against Love and Rose he was just standing back with his hands in his pockets. Giving them breathing time and conversing with them.

Its implied that Shunsui, Love or Rose who have needed to go Bankai to counter Starrks abilities 1vs1.
In all fairness, shunsui decision to use bankai was because his shikai was not cooperation. But once it started to, we saw how powerful it was to take out starks.

Broken_Wing
February 09, 2011, 08:27 PM
But the moment that shunsui's shikai was in the mood, he and starks had a fair match and in the end he won. The reason shunsui was having trouble was because his sword was not cooperating.

Im just saying Shunsui's shikai damaging abilities require being close to Starrk i.e. close range fighter. Starrk is more adept at being a long-range fighter.

Why did Shunsui get saved from Starrks long-range attacks and yet no one saved Starrk from Shunsui's close-range attacks? Thats not really fair.

A fair match would be Shunsui getting around Starrks long-range abilities by himself and then defeating him with shikai. Shunsui shikai beating Starrk at close-range =/= Shikai Shunsui > Starrk 100% of the time.

Shikai Shunsui showed nothing that could counter Starrks ceros or wolves. What if the Vizards had not come and Starrk followed through with wolves against Cero'd Shunsui on the ground? Probably Starrks victory...

But anyway, Mayruis stats dont hold up against the full-powered Starrk...

Jackk
February 09, 2011, 08:29 PM
But the moment that shunsui's shikai was in the mood, he and starks had a fair match and in the end he won. The reason shunsui was having trouble was because his sword was not cooperating.

A fair match? LOL after Shunsui put a sword through Stark's chest from behind? Then Shunsui fought an injured Stark, and Shunsui still needed to throw his haori at the guy so that he could land a direct him on him. Yeah, a fight full of sneak attacks and cheap shots, but it was still a fair fight... :facepalm

Not to mention that Stark didn't use his ceros again, and Stark didn't even use the wolves on Shunsui. What could Shunsui have done against the wolves? Heck he had to be saved when he faced Stark's ceros...

Anyway, Stark should beat Mayuri in this match... his speed and powerful long ranged attacks will prove too much. Mayuri's only chance of winning should be his Bankai's poison, but even then... Stark may be able to avoid it with his superior speed.

BleachOD
February 10, 2011, 01:01 AM
I voted for Starrk


Mayuri's weak and that's why he uses poisons.

His shikai is powerful but he uses Nemu to distract so he can use it. He couldn't even catch Starrk and even if he could use Nemu. Starrk's scouter would prevent her from "sneaking up on him"

His bankai is big and I guess useful but Starrk could blow it to bits and is actually fast enough to avoid getting caught by the poison

His fire power is ridiculous and he can fight long range.. but more than that, he has great analytical skills and could probably figure out Mayuri's tactics.

I don't even really wanna say more because this match isn't that interesting.

aozora.he
February 10, 2011, 03:21 AM
My vote goes to Mayuri, he's just too sneaky, he would find a way to deal with Starrk. Also, the primera is one of the most lazy chara in bleach, by the time he realizes he has to fight with all he has againts Mayuri, Mayuri would already have put like a billion poisonous substances into Starrk so...yeah, one vote for the (freaky) scientist.

xXan
February 10, 2011, 03:42 AM
My vote goes to Mayuri, he's just too sneaky, he would find a way to deal with Starrk. Also, the primera is one of the most lazy chara in bleach, by the time he realizes he has to fight with all he has againts Mayuri, Mayuri would already have put like a billion poisonous substances into Starrk so...yeah, one vote for the (freaky) scientist.

People going on and on with the poisons ... How in the world could Mayuri tag Starrk? Starrk was able to grab and run away with Orihime before Kenpachi and Ichigo could move a finger...
Starrk was able to put Shunsui in the ground after fighting 2vs1 (Ukitake helped) and then defeat 2 hollofied captains ffs...

Really now how could Mayuri do better then this 4? I just can't understant some people, they expect some deus ex machina from Mayuri to defeat Starrk and put all they got on that.

If all faills Starrk can just keep his distance and blast Mayuri to pieces withouth even releasing, there is no way in hell Mayuri can get close to Starrk even in Starrk's normal mode.

Also if Shunsui can't hit Starrk even once (before the backstab) Mayuri has absolutly no chanse to defeat Starrk in a sword fight or cut Sturrk to apply poisons or whatever.

xXan
February 10, 2011, 05:48 AM
You don't pay attention to the manga do you?

He even stated that his ability was different from other espada. he doesn't 'release a sword' he combines himself and Lillynette. Go back and read the chapters again. It was never 4 on 1. 4 on 1 would be Just Starrk with every said character facing him at once. It was never that way. It was Shunsui vs. Starrk. Starrk 'releases' or combines himself with Lilly' then Ukitake steps in saying it's two on two since Lilly' is basically his guns. WW comes in and Ukitake gets trolled, Shunsui gets hit with a CERO directly to the back (you said he never got hit, he did). Rose and Love come in, they don't stand a chance, Shunsui saves them from their 'death blow' by Starrk's words. A point blank cero to the back and then a stab to the back. To me they both got their shots. Like i said before, it's a war, 'cheap shots' aren't cheap when you're there to defeat an enemy. There is no 'code' or 'ethics' in battle. That's what you need to think about. Who cares where or how someone gets a strike, a hit is a hit.

I think you got some reading comprehension problems. I clearly stated those guys where tag teaming him. If i show up, beat you up then when you are about to fight back and beat me some other guy jumps in and fights you when you already are tired from fighting me is that not 2vs1? I never said 4vs1 at the same time. But it was 3vs1 at the same time, read below i will state when.

Lilinette is HIS POWER. In no way that is 2vs1. Lilinette and Starrk are part of the same being. The same as shinigami and zanpakuto.
You do know Starrk and Lilinette split off from the same individual right? As for how unique his ability is its irrelevant. If you ask me respira is way more hax then this.
Do you consider Komamura and his bankai fighting someone 2vs1 to? This is just ridiculous...

As for the rest .... In this fight (Starrk vs Mayuri) there will be no war and nobody to distract or tag teaming someone. So you can stop with this war nonsence.
Bottom line is Starrk got a cero in Shunsui back in a fair way. Starrk got helped from WW and Ukitake helped Shunsui (aka 2vs2). This is fair. Now Shunsui on the other hand backstabed Starrk when he was fighting 2 other HOLLOFIED CAPTAINS (3vs1 right here) and then defeated a Starrk that never fired 1 more cero OR used his wolves ...

Now stop with the war. We are not debating what is fair and not in a war. We where debating how Starrk got defeated ...

oh and if you don't care how one get's a hit i am going to get FGT Ichigo to hold down Yama Ji and have Rukia cut of his head in 1 second. Rukia >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yama Ji by your logic.

Junior
February 10, 2011, 09:51 AM
Silly shit.

Starrk wins this.

I assume all these matches are "fresh" meaning, if they haven't encountered each other in the manga already -- they have no knowledge of what the other can do.

So Mayuri can't say "I was spying on you the entire time, that's how I know" and stuff like that.

He'll be reduced to thinking on his feet and we have seen where that has gotten him -- a big hole in the chest from Ishida.

If Ishida can do it, Starrk damn sure can.

Raizen
February 10, 2011, 11:57 AM
Im just saying Shunsui's shikai damaging abilities require being close to Starrk i.e. close range fighter. Starrk is more adept at being a long-range fighter.

Why did Shunsui get saved from Starrks long-range attacks and yet no one saved Starrk from Shunsui's close-range attacks? Thats not really fair.

A fair match would be Shunsui getting around Starrks long-range abilities by himself and then defeating him with shikai. Shunsui shikai beating Starrk at close-range =/= Shikai Shunsui > Starrk 100% of the time.

Shikai Shunsui showed nothing that could counter Starrks ceros or wolves. What if the Vizards had not come and Starrk followed through with wolves against Cero'd Shunsui on the ground? Probably Starrks victory...

But anyway, Mayruis stats dont hold up against the full-powered Starrk...
Seems as if my post got deleted since it was off topic. If u still want to discuss, just pm me :).

Starks is a very powerful fighter. I think most captains would have trouble with him and mayuri is one of the weaker captains.
Furthermore, I am betting the mayuri's paralysis shikai is equivalent to his strength. So its effectiveness depends on the opponents strength and SP. But truthfully, i have a hard time seeing mayuri getting a hit on starks

UchihaHunter
February 10, 2011, 12:29 PM
Hmm, I didn't realize it until reading someone's post here, but no one was really overwhelmed by the Espadas' reiatsu in FKT...I voted for Mayuri sort of as a joke, but I think Mayuri really could win this if Stark gets hit with the poison!

xXan
February 10, 2011, 01:31 PM
Hmm, I didn't realize it until reading someone's post here, but no one was really overwhelmed by the Espadas' reiatsu in FKT...I voted for Mayuri sort of as a joke, but I think Mayuri really could win this if Stark gets hit with the poison!

This is not the first way i got to see this. Can i ask in what way they where not overwhelmed by the espada reiatsu? I am just no sure about what you mean.

Raizen
February 10, 2011, 01:41 PM
This is not the first way i got to see this. Can i ask in what way they where not overwhelmed by the espada reiatsu? I am just no sure about what you mean.
I think he meant in a way where they can't fight. Like what happened when yama looked at nanao

xXan
February 10, 2011, 01:48 PM
I think he meant in a way where they can't fight. Like what happened when yama looked at nanao

Oh i see, ty for the explanation.

If that is the case the same thing can be said about Aizen and his reiatsu .. I realy don't see how this is relevant. Gin was around even Super Aizen.

Raizen
February 10, 2011, 01:51 PM
Power levels in bleach definitely messed up after the SS arc.

I think we shouldn't look at the difference between 2 SP, but rather their strength. For example, considering how strong starks' SP, i don't think mayuri's shikai would paralyze for long or even be effective due to his strength. I doubt anyone here thinks that that shikai could actually paralyze someone like aizen for long or even yama for that matter

UchihaHunter
February 10, 2011, 03:38 PM
I dunno if it would work on Aizen (most likely not), but Stark isn't Aizen's equal in reiatsu...

And about Gin being around Aizen; Aizen deliberately kept his reiatsu at levels relative to his surroundings...otherwise, Tatsuki and the others wouldn't have been able to feel anything from him. It doesn't really help him to be crushing Gin with his reiatsu the entire time, haha

xXan
February 10, 2011, 04:06 PM
I dunno if it would work on Aizen (most likely not), but Stark isn't Aizen's equal in reiatsu...

And about Gin being around Aizen; Aizen deliberately kept his reiatsu at levels relative to his surroundings...otherwise, Tatsuki and the others wouldn't have been able to feel anything from him. It doesn't really help him to be crushing Gin with his reiatsu the entire time, haha

well yeah but lots of captains wher around Aizen when they where fighting and none of them had any problems with his reiatsu ... So i think its irrelevant.

UchihaHunter
February 10, 2011, 04:15 PM
This is true as well...I think Kubo's been fairly inconsistent with SP anyway...considering that Ichigo beat Ikkaku and was definitely stronger than Yumichika, but Yumichika and Ikkaku spend tons of time around Kenpachi without being overwhelmed...even though Kenpachi doesn't really have control over his SP, iirc...

I dunno, I guess that I can see the poison working on Stark since it worked on QFF Uryuu

Raizen
February 10, 2011, 04:35 PM
This is true as well...I think Kubo's been fairly inconsistent with SP anyway...considering that Ichigo beat Ikkaku and was definitely stronger than Yumichika, but Yumichika and Ikkaku spend tons of time around Kenpachi without being overwhelmed...even though Kenpachi doesn't really have control over his SP, iirc...

I dunno, I guess that I can see the poison working on Stark since it worked on QFF Uryuu
Yes, but the poison took effect before ishida had his huge boost in reiatsu. I just have a hard time believing mayuri can incapacitate a strong opponent easily with just his shikai (ie shunsui, ukitake, unohana, starks, etc). Maybe with his poison, but i think the effects of the shikai is limited on strong opponents

Gran Maestro
February 10, 2011, 04:35 PM
It's Ichigo who messes up power levels, he is the main character, he wins when he has to no matter how strong his opponent is. Remove Ichigo from the equation and power levels are pretty consistent.

We don't know the reiatsu levels of these characters, so it's hard to judge where Mayuri stands compared to Starrk but IMO Starrk is high-tier captain level and Mayuri is low-tier captain level, therefore there's a great difference between their reiatsu. I think Mayuri's shikai would work on Starrk but to a limited extent, assuming Mayuri's sword can penetrate Starrk's hierro.

Takahashi
February 10, 2011, 04:52 PM
Yes, but the poison took effect before ishida had his huge boost in reiatsu. I just have a hard time believing mayuri can incapacitate a strong opponent easily with just his shikai (ie shunsui, ukitake, unohana, starks, etc). Maybe with his poison, but i think the effects of the shikai is limited on strong opponents

Ishida was still affected by the paralyzing effects after his powerful transformation though. He mentions that the puppet tech is wearing off after the fight, so clearly he still needed it to move.

Raizen
February 10, 2011, 04:56 PM
Ishida was still affected by the paralyzing effects after his powerful transformation though. He mentions that the puppet tech is wearing off after the fight, so clearly he still needed it to move.
My point is that it already affected his body so it didn't matter if he got a boost in SP. Had he had that boost before it took effect, it may have fought off the paralysis.

hajialibaig
February 10, 2011, 10:37 PM
Starrk is way too smart to get pulled in by any of Mayuri's tricks, poison gas, etc. His long range attacks and abilities, combined with his impressive speed and sonido makes him hard not to choose. I'll go with Starrk on this one.

Tsukisama
February 10, 2011, 11:36 PM
With over 80% of the votes, Starrk wins handily! He shall advance on into Round 2. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.

Stay tuned for more details! :cheerbunny