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Airgrimes
October 02, 2012, 11:17 AM
Yes, and probably we see some technique from Kimijima at least, that will be S tier at least.
He might just have an ability and not a technique even.
Like Ochi had just one technique, which was definetely S rank, but he had an S-Rank ablitiy too. (Mental Pressure).

---------- Post added at 10:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------


Poor Jackal. First Marui cheats on him with Kite, and now Bunta is almost able to play alone. He'll soon join the forgotten bros.
Ikr lol.
Konomi couldn't have been more obvious that he is throwing Jackal away.

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------

Unfortunately though, Perfect Fortress is far from Perfect...

Standard Lob > Perfect Fortress...
Considering Marui isn't even 1.65m tall it's what to expect.

LetalHawk
October 02, 2012, 05:37 PM
If Marui was taller, then perfect fortress would be really fearsome. It's a really good technique in doubles as it's the complete and ultimate net defense and if the players hits a lob, like Kaoz said, the other player has time to prepare his shot comfortably and maybe score a winner, while in singles is useless, is really really useful in doubles.

Phantron
October 02, 2012, 07:58 PM
If Marui was taller, then perfect fortress would be really fearsome. It's a really good technique in doubles as it's the complete and ultimate net defense and if the players hits a lob, like Kaoz said, the other player has time to prepare his shot comfortably and maybe score a winner, while in singles is useless, is really really useful in doubles.

His return shots don't appear to pose any threat so it's not effective at single either.

The clear implication is that Marui defends with Perfect Fortress while Kite goes on the offense. A lob, even in Prince of Tennis, is always a great opportunity for the offense. Sure it doesn't seem like having your defense player at the net and offense player at baseline makes any sense, but it's not like POT is supposed to make sense. If they say this works, then it works.

Fuji Shusuke
October 23, 2012, 02:59 PM
I'll wait for the new chapter to rank Perfect Fortress.

I'm also adding Kimijima's Curving Volley.

Airgrimes
October 23, 2012, 04:06 PM
I'll wait for the new chapter to rank Perfect Fortress.

I'm also adding Kimijima's Curving Volley.
I don't think you should.
It hasn't been cited as a technique in the series.

I think it's just down to Kimijima likely having a high technique stat.

LetalHawk
October 23, 2012, 05:59 PM
I don't think you should.
It hasn't been cited as a technique in the series.

I think it's just down to Kimijima likely having a high technique stat.

It's just a regular curved shot, no big deal at all. But since his stats are high, his shots like that look like really amazing but it's not that impressive.

Altough judging by the end of ch.89, we should see why he's No.7 of All Japan. I wonder what Konomi will show us from him, because this whole negotiation thing was just absurd, I like how the match is going tough.

-Ken-
October 23, 2012, 06:15 PM
It's just a regular curved shot, no big deal at all. But since his stats are high, his shots like that look like really amazing but it's not that impressive.

Altough judging by the end of ch.89, we should see why he's No.7 of All Japan. I wonder what Konomi will show us from him, because this whole negotiation thing was just absurd, I like how the match is going tough.

I kinda love his "fake" techniques to be honest. When the spoiler was partially out, it was unclear that Kimijima strike out a deal with Kite. So it look like Kimijima "control" Kite.

Man, that would have been a sickkkk techniques.

Fuji Shusuke
October 24, 2012, 09:30 AM
So you think that Curving Volley is unecessary because it is a general skill?

I'll remove it.

Airgrimes
October 24, 2012, 11:34 AM
So you think that Curving Volley is unecessary because it is a general skill?

I'll remove it.
Only for now.
It's not as if his fellow G10 members commented saying ''there it is... Kimijima's ___________ shot''.

LetalHawk
October 24, 2012, 03:40 PM
Only for now.
It's not as if his fellow G10 members commented saying ''there it is... Kimijima's ___________ shot''.

Btw, Thono was going to hit another execution method, iron... shame it wasn't shown

Airgrimes
October 24, 2012, 04:34 PM
Btw, Thono was going to hit another execution method, iron... shame it wasn't shown
No.11?

LetalHawk
October 24, 2012, 05:13 PM
No.11?

Yes that one No.11 Iron ...

TheShiraishi
October 24, 2012, 08:58 PM
Just adding on to what Letal and Air was saying, Chapter 89 has been translated:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v08/c089/

(Does this mean Marui underwent martial arts training? :D)

Hardy
October 24, 2012, 10:17 PM
http://www.mangareader.net/422-27098-8/prince-of-tennis/chapter-201.html

No, this means that Konomi is running out of ideas.

LetalHawk
October 25, 2012, 03:41 AM
After all, not new flashy technique has been shown for a while, I'm still waiting for some "visible" upgrade lol.

Kaoz
July 18, 2014, 04:00 AM
We haven't done this in a while and I don't really feel like tiering characters at the moment, so how about we update the techniques list instead?

New moves to be added:
-Negotiation
-The 13 Execution Methods
-Wonder Castle
-10 Ball Strike
-Nitouryuu
-Imetsu Mu
-Pirates of the American (on a side note, I wonder if this was actually supposed to be Pirates of America)
-Snake Charmer of India
-Bull Fighting of the Spanish
-Phoenix of Egypt
-Pirates of the World
-Super Sweet Spot (Not sure if we want to include this one)
-Glowing Shot (/Destruction)
-Kijin / Pirate / Samurai (Combined entry?)
-Black Hole

I think that's all of them? Also we now actually know what Kokushoku no Aura does, and have seen some other moves like Myougi again.

Feel free to comment on anything you want, but something I'm especially interested in are opinions on Pirates of the World - do you think it's on par with the interdimensional moves or maybe even above some of them? Given that it seemed to be Byoudouin's ultimate trump card, I feel like it should rank as high as Glowing Shot at least.

Also, should we penalize moves for having negative side effects? Black Hole, Zero Shiki Serve, Rai and Tezuka Phantom would be affected by this the most.

Lastly, should we stick to techniques being used by the characters that actually have them or should we pretend that they're used by a generic character with all 5s or something? There might be an awesome technique that's not as effective because it's used by a weak character or vice-verse.

FrostyMouse
July 19, 2014, 10:51 AM
Other than what I mentioned about Pirates of the World (I said that each shot should do less damage than GS, but it's winning by attrition) and things like Ryoma using Spot against Sanada (even though it was Muga, the move worked at a higher level because Ryoma is just that much better than Ibu), I would say that it's been implied in the manga that moves at the top of the world don't have side effects. So while those four moves are great, they all have drawbacks. If you're good enough, you can just return ZSS. Black Hole, well, you probably shouldn't use it for more than one match every year or something, plus the time limit, gives it a severe drawback. In a one set match, Black Hole is only beneath TnK, but in a three set match (even assuming 30 actual minutes), you're probably not going to win against a quality opponent in that time span.

At the start of SPoT, Ryoma copies Matsu's younger brother's serve. When Chikao uses Magnum Serve, it's pretty weak. When Ryoma uses Magnum Serve, he KOs Chikao. Moves that are weak enough in the first place are often hard to measure, plus a lot of people don't use the moves of others, or simply can't. There are only a handful of players in the series that copy the moves of other players, or can use the same/similar moves. Hadokyuu users, Kite taught all of the other Higa members their moves, and thus can use all of their moves at a higher level, a bunch of people can use Higuma Otoshi (We don't actually know if Atobe and Yuushi copied it after seeing it, or whether others just used it as well. Akaya uses it for a point with unconscious Muga, but...), no one uses Muga anymore, then Ryoma copies some fairly weak stuff through his ability as the Prince of Tennis, and Niou somehow understands how to use moves and then displays it through Illusion (although, Illusion's visual effect fails and Niou can still use the moves during the match against Ochi/Mouri). All in all, I'd say that we should, for the most part, judge moves by the players who use them, not being used by someone better than them, unless a better player copies the move and starts using it for more than a point or something.

On the other hand, it's been implied that using ZS moves (and thus probably Phantom as well) wouldn't be dangerous for Tezuka if he hadn't had his arm damaged by the violent senpai.

Super Sweet Spot may add more everything to shots if you've mastered it, but it's hard to say. Things like how Shuuji returned Rai would've been nice to see, instead of just getting a bs explanations.

I don't think that we can even really discuss Negotiation because we don't know what it actually does. We also don't know why random players on the opposing teams, who should have no contact with Kimijima before their matches, would fall to Negotiation, if, indeed they do.

Byoudouin's four (and perhaps more, but they're unseen) ball splitting techs are hard to measure. They win against players who can't return multiple balls, but Byoudouin wouldn't use stuff like that anyway against them. We also haven't seen him use that stuff in the current timeline. Pirates of the World is different, as it's ostensibly infinite balls (I don't buy that) and it's designed to injure the opponent. The regular ball splitting techs just split the ball and you'd probably lose the point like you would against normal ball splitting, assuming you didn't return them all.

felixng2011
July 20, 2014, 06:17 AM
Tezuka Phantom is pretty dam op even with the drawback. As long as you don't spam it and only use it for critical points it can be extremely deadly and an easy way to win match point.

There shouldn't be many high schoolers who can give Tezuka with TNK a hard time to begin with so he would rarely ever need to use it and if he does use it he should use it sparingly. If he that outmatched that he has to spam it it would be stupid since he can't spam it for 2 or 3 sets anyway so it would be pointless to use it.

We should only talk about a technique in terms of how the character that has it can use it unless multiple characters can use it like Twist Serve. Then maybe you can mention Twist Serve and the character you are talking about. There is no point in talking about abilities mimiced by Muga since its not even part of their normal reportoire.

Though I guess for certain abilities there isn't much of a difference between characters like auras so those are exceptions.

-Ken-
July 20, 2014, 06:20 AM
I think it is important that we judge tech by common user rather than the user themselves. Otherwise this would just be too similar to tier list thread.

Kaoz
July 23, 2014, 12:49 AM
I think it is important that we judge tech by common user rather than the user themselves. Otherwise this would just be too similar to tier list thread.

I don't disagree with this at all, but I think it might be hard to judge because we have absolutely no data on how a theoretical user would utilize a move. So maybe we should just judge by the strongest instance of the move we've actually seen. However, we shouldn't take individual character weaknesses into account that would make a move more difficult to use. For example, Hadokyuu users are super slow, but for the purpose of this list, that doesn't matter to us, we'll just assume the move gets used.

Now for the list itself, I think TnK should remain at the very top. Maybe we could have Kijin/Pirate/Samurai and Black Hole in the same tier though? Or should they be one below? I'd have Glowing Shot and Pirates of the World in the next tier, then Mu and Duke Homerun and the X Ball Moves? Oh actually, one move I did forget about in my list is Asura no Shindou, where should we put that one?

-Ken-
July 23, 2014, 10:16 AM
I'll put them one tier below TnK from now. I don't know if Glowing Shot is the same tier as Pirates of the World, though. It look like "entrance" move.

Kaoz
July 23, 2014, 12:45 PM
I'll put them one tier below TnK from now. I don't know if Glowing Shot is the same tier as Pirates of the World, though. It look like "entrance" move.

Would you group PotW together with Kijin then? I'd like to avoid too small tiers if possible. Or what level do you think GS should be on?

-Ken-
July 24, 2014, 07:24 AM
Pirates of the World seem closer to Kijin than Glowing Shot for me, it's what Byoudonin try to use as his ultimate move at the end of the match. Its weird that it would be on the same tier as the move everyone is throwing around recently, including Byoudonin himself.

Kaoz
July 24, 2014, 08:50 AM
Right, so something like:

S
Ten'imuhou no Kiwami

A
Black Hole
Kijin
Pirate
Pirates of the World
Samurai

B
Destruction
Duke Homerun
Glowing Shot
Imetsu Mu

Like I said, I'd prefer to avoid having a move in a tier by itself (with TnK being kind of the traditional exception I guess), so I grouped GS together with DH and Mu at least. Can anyone think of another move that should go into that B Tier?

Hardy
July 24, 2014, 08:53 AM
Even if Black Hole could easily stop every shot in it's own tier, it doesn't have it's own because of all the drawbacks and because almost no one can use it, right?

(what is Destruction btw, sorry).

Kaoz
July 24, 2014, 08:55 AM
Well, how many people can use a move doesn't really influence its position in my mind because there are so many character exclusive techniques. However, the drawback arguably brings it down. I think you could make a case for it being in S, but from what I can tell that goes against the general consensus at the moment.

-Ken-
July 24, 2014, 09:30 AM
In a 1 set match Black Hole are beating those 6-0, but that'll be a strain on the body in a 3 set match.

Kaoz
July 26, 2014, 03:52 AM
Can anyone think of another move that should go into that B Tier?

This does not seem to be the case. Although, I was considering adding GS to A and then have Mu, DH and the multiball moves in B, dunno if others would prefer that.

Either way, I'd probably list those multiball moves next and I don't know if we want to group the next set of moves in that tier too, so the likes of ZSS, Rai, TPhantom, Hyakuren, Saiki, Nitouryuu, Yips, Mach, Exectutions?

Fuji Shusuke
July 26, 2014, 03:54 AM
I'll update the list and move all techniques a tier down. SSS seems a bit much in retrospect.

Hardy
July 26, 2014, 09:01 AM
Sorry for going offtopic but :zomg Fuji is alive

-Ken-
July 26, 2014, 10:26 AM
At first I thought Hardy was talking about manga Fuji and think wow he finally had a role, then I scroll up...

But yeah, it's nice to see you doing well.:super

Fuji Shusuke
July 26, 2014, 10:41 AM
Is "Divine Path of the Asura" that Tokugawa enters in chapter 118 actually a move or aura of sorts?

Kaoz
July 26, 2014, 11:04 AM
Is "Divine Path of the Asura" that Tokugawa enters in chapter 118 actually a move or aura of sorts?

Yes. We don't really know what it does though.

Btw Hardy, a good way to make inconspicuous off topic posts is to add something on topic to them. I'm sure you would have something to add to the discussion at hand.