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jorped
January 21, 2011, 09:36 AM
hi created this thread so i could try to see oppinions about what you think of SH crew strenght

and also cool stuffs that you guys might think that can happen to them.

do you think that luffy has a new gear????
do you think zoro and sanji know haki???
what about the others like franky and ussop ?
do you think that they are going to find a devil fruit? maybe the fire fruit or maybe that wouldnt be cool cuz luffy would suffer more about ace death???

i also have the idea that one of the first thinks that are going to happen on New World is luffy against Smoker, a test to luffy strenght against an logia user

share here all your thoughts about OP

Bugzee
January 21, 2011, 01:17 PM
- I don't think Luffy has created a new gear. We've already witnessed a haki imbued gear second which honestly looks fricking great and I'm sure he doesn't need to rely on the third gear as much as he use too. I would like to see more of Luffy fighting without the use of the gears for the time being. More haki attacks would be great though.

- I'm sure they both know about "haki" by now. Can they both use it? I hope so. I would love to see Zoro using haki in the current FI arc.

- Maybe... Usopp!? No not the rest of the SH's at present.

- I always wanted to see one of the SH's find a devil fruit tbh. Whether they actually consume it well...I'm kinda doubting it atm lol.

- Luffy x Smoker clash in the NW is definitely something to look forward too but I don't think it'll happen straight after the FI arc nor do I believe it'll occur once they enter the New World.

Anduren
January 21, 2011, 02:27 PM
Hmm, lets see....

I agree with Bugzee that Luffy probably will not develop new gears (4th, 5th .etc) but will modify and add on new versions of what he already has based on new things he learn. The same way he thought of the Pistol when he was small adding onto his rubber ability, and how he came up with Gear 2nd and 3rd after fighting Aokiji (and adding the Soru effect onto his Gear 2nd after seeing CP9). We already saw him apply what he learned about Haki into his already developed Gear 2nd and 3rd attacks. I think in the new world, he might learn more tricks that he will learn to apply to what he already knows, but he developed Gear 2nd and 3rd 2 years ago and it will not go any further in that direction into new gears.

I think there is a high possibility that Zoro and Sanji at least know what haki is. It's possible they can use it in some form as well. But I would also say the same about Robin and Usopp too based on who they were in contact with during the 2 year time skip. I guess we will find out soon though. (Just noticed this is about what Bugzee said too again)

I don't think Franky, Nami, Chopper or Brook had the chance to learn about haki based on where they were and what they were doing.

I think if the strawhats ever find a devil fruit, it would involve an arc where finding it and whom it belongs to/should go to is a big plot device and it would not go to a strawhat but a secondary arc specific character (like Vivi was for Arabasta arc). If any of the strawhats consume a devil fruit it would change their character way too much as far as the story is concerned but I would be very excited to see an arc revolving around the mystery of how devil fruits are found in the grand line. On a side note, I think Luffy has already gotten over Ace's death. He's sure to be mad at Blackbeard and Akainu but he won't let it make him foam at the mouth again.

I don't think Luffy has to fight Smoker to show that he can handle a logia user. There's a possibility that is Caribou's purpose. Unless Smoker has advanced a lot and learned haki as well, I don't think he can give Luffy a challenge anymore. But if he did, then he will be a good way to show us that Luffy can handle logia users that also use haki (like Marine Admirals) without having Luffy actually taking down any admirals.

Looks like I wrote a book :darn

jorped
January 21, 2011, 02:53 PM
when i said about the others like ussop and franky i didnt made myself clear cuz you guys thought i was talking about haki, and i was trying to ask what do you think about their skills now 2 years later :), sorry for didnt make myself clear oO

since i started read OP the devil fruit seem to be one think that still no one truly understand but it is amazing and i always imagine what would be like if the mugiwaras find one , that would be amazing :) i think it would be fan service but that wouldnt ruin the history a bit :) after somany island that they passed it wouldnt be so starnge if they accidentally found one :)

about luffy vs smoker since the first time that we saw smoker that he tried to stop luffy and the others, but he never managed to get a proper fight with luffy cuz always someone managed to let luffy ran away, first time dragon the other hancock so expecting to see a fight between luffy and smoker :)

RezzieThaRapper
January 22, 2011, 04:33 PM
Honestly I would love to see a Gear 4th and Gear 5th...

Maybe a completely Vulcanized body with very-limited stretching, but Nigh-Invincibility thanks to Color of Armaments... Gomu Gomu No Vulcan Yari!!!

This is something I've theorized about... But as One Piece fans we have all seen Luffy adapt and revamp his abilities all the time... For instance look at how he has learned to generate his limbs into Gear 2nd by vibrating his arm...

What if he noticed WB's strength and devil fruit power during the war, the shockwave/vibration fruit Gura Gura... Maybe Luffy (Thanks to his rubber body) will demonstrate a New Gear Based on this... Vibrating his body so fast that the very air around him becomes dangerous, and his punches literally lose the properties of a normal impact, and shatter unlucky victims like glass... His punches could go head to head with any blade as well... with the weakness of extreme disorientation after usage...

---

I believe Zoro, Sanji, Usopp, & Chopper have all developed Haki (Or Will VERY SOON)

---

I hope they find a devil fruit in the Vegapunk Arc

---

Aramix
January 22, 2011, 04:49 PM
About gears - I don't think so, nut it would be cool if he developed gear 2.5 which looks somekind like locomotive (don't even know how to describe it :D). Zoro, Sanji - they probably can, but just one form of it, they'll develop other later. Others having Haki - in opinion Robin might be able to use it, she one, hell of a gall so I see no reason why she couldn't. Fruit - they might, but not the mera mera one, Coby will probably find it :D. And about Luffy vs Smoker - they might, but in some very big fight.

Anduren
January 22, 2011, 06:38 PM
when i said about the others like ussop and franky i didnt made myself clear cuz you guys thought i was talking about haki, and i was trying to ask what do you think about their skills now 2 years later :), sorry for didnt make myself clear oO

Usopp used to think he was the weakest strawhat (to the point he thought it was best for him to leave instead of being a burden to them). But we see now that he thinks he's stronger than Nami and Chopper. Whether that's true or not, what it shows is that he has gained enough experience and skill to be confident about how well he can handle himself. I would really like to see him go up against someone like Choo again in the fishman arc and have him mop the ocean floor with him just to show how much of an improvement he has made since 2 years ago.

Mostly though, I'm curious about the different medicines Chopper was able to develop and study and the intel Robin got while working in the revolutionary army. I also wonder if the name of Dragon will ever come up in a conversation between her and Luffy anytime soon. Event hough Franky got many upgrades and added stuff onto the Thousand Sunny, I'm more curious about Dr. Vegapunk himself more than what Franky was able to get from looking at his childhood work. I think we won't get to see the extent of Nami's studies all at once, but instead every time they run into a weird situation she will be able to use her knowledge to their advantage. Although that weather machine she worked with is a curious thing. And I guess I haven't seen enough of Brook to be able to even guess how his skills have improved except just to say that they're music related.

jorped
January 22, 2011, 07:28 PM
Honestly I would love to see a Gear 4th and Gear 5th...

Maybe a completely Vulcanized body with very-limited stretching, but Nigh-Invincibility thanks to Color of Armaments... Gomu Gomu No Vulcan Yari!!!

This is something I've theorized about... But as One Piece fans we have all seen Luffy adapt and revamp his abilities all the time... For instance look at how he has learned to generate his limbs into Gear 2nd by vibrating his arm...

What if he noticed WB's strength and devil fruit power during the war, the shockwave/vibration fruit Gura Gura... Maybe Luffy (Thanks to his rubber body) will demonstrate a New Gear Based on this... Vibrating his body so fast that the very air around him becomes dangerous, and his punches literally lose the properties of a normal impact, and shatter unlucky victims like glass... His punches could go head to head with any blade as well... with the weakness of extreme disorientation after usage...

---

I believe Zoro, Sanji, Usopp, & Chopper have all developed Haki (Or Will VERY SOON)

---

I hope they find a devil fruit in the Vegapunk Arc

---

like your ideas about the gears , it would be cool to see a gear based on WB devil fruit :) but if oda decided to show us a new gear i think it will be great.

When we compare the gomu gomu fruit with the others fruits like logia and even mythical zoans we may think that it is not so good as those but in the case of luffy someone that controls the 3 types of haki and that has train it so hard i think it is one of the most powerful fruits.

about chopper and ussop maybe not have already developped it , cuz they didnt noticed that luffy used it against a sea monster but i hope luffy will taught them :) about zoro and sanji i think they at least should know what it is and they will definitely learn it if they already dont use it :)
[hr]

About gears - I don't think so, nut it would be cool if he developed gear 2.5 which looks somekind like locomotive (don't even know how to describe it :D). Zoro, Sanji - they probably can, but just one form of it, they'll develop other later. Others having Haki - in opinion Robin might be able to use it, she one, hell of a gall so I see no reason why she couldn't. Fruit - they might, but not the mera mera one, Coby will probably find it :D. And about Luffy vs Smoker - they might, but in some very big fight.

not sure about the part of cobby be the one to find the mera mera fruit but i kinda think that that makes a lot of sense cuz ace was defeated by akainu and we after saw that cobi confronted akainu. something tells me that in the end cobi is not going to follow anymore some types of marines like akainu and others that are corrupt and i think a war inside the marine is going to happen and maybe cobi is going to be the one that defeats akainu , although until know i had the idea that would be luffy, but one day we will have to see cobi shine and nothing better than defeating a logi user, that his logia is supposed to be stronger than the mera mera no fruit.
[hr]

Usopp used to think he was the weakest strawhat (to the point he thought it was best for him to leave instead of being a burden to them). But we see now that he thinks he's stronger than Nami and Chopper. Whether that's true or not, what it shows is that he has gained enough experience and skill to be confident about how well he can handle himself. I would really like to see him go up against someone like Choo again in the fishman arc and have him mop the ocean floor with him just to show how much of an improvement he has made since 2 years ago.

Mostly though, I'm curious about the different medicines Chopper was able to develop and study and the intel Robin got while working in the revolutionary army. I also wonder if the name of Dragon will ever come up in a conversation between her and Luffy anytime soon. Event hough Franky got many upgrades and added stuff onto the Thousand Sunny, I'm more curious about Dr. Vegapunk himself more than what Franky was able to get from looking at his childhood work. I think we won't get to see the extent of Nami's studies all at once, but instead every time they run into a weird situation she will be able to use her knowledge to their advantage. Although that weather machine she worked with is a curious thing. And I guess I haven't seen enough of Brook to be able to even guess how his skills have improved except just to say that they're music related.

ussop seems alot more confident than he was 2 years ago , and that is great , i think from now on the will be a guy to have in consideration when trying to defeat the SH.

As you i am also very interested about new medicines of Chopper, i know he is better doctor than 2 years ago and he also seems that he is a bit stronger :)

About robin i also think that during those 2 years she must have got pretty good info and i am waiting for the time that she shares it with the rest of them :)

Nami as usual , her skills are going to be show when they will need it :) and they will absolutely need it , New World is going to be much harder than Red Line

Franky looks so badass now , and it would be cool if was now stronger than the pacifistas :)

Blue Walk
January 22, 2011, 10:40 PM
like your ideas about the gears , it would be cool to see a gear based on WB devil fruit :) but if oda decided to show us a new gear i think it will be great.

about chopper and ussop maybe not have already developped it , cuz they didnt noticed that luffy used it against a sea monster but i hope luffy will taught them :) about zoro and sanji i think they at least should know what it is and they will definitely learn it if they already dont use it :)
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I was going to mention this, but you beat me to it lol. I also dont think chopper or ussop really know much about haki cuz if they did, they wouldve realized it during luffys battle with hammond and his men.

As for the rest of the crew i definetley think Robin knows about it, and with that knowledge may have tried to develop some form of it (as i dont think there would be a WHOLE lot more she could do with her df in terms of upgrades, besides bigger appendages lol) as well as improving upon her physical abilities (as rayleigh said, everyone has potential to use it, they just dont know about it. so if she knows, she may try to harness it somehow).

Zoro and Sanji may have experienced it already having fought ppl who may use it, and could have started to develop signs of it which may be more evident in the future. (lol, i notice neither of them are around whenever luffy uses it).

And for Franky yeah it would be cool if he knew haki, but in my opinion if he never learned it he wouldnt be out of the loop or weak or nuthin. He's a cyborg for cryin out loud, anything u can do with haki he could replicate with upgrades to his body! Color of observation: he could get x-ray eyes or eyes behind his head lol. Color of armament: he could get denser/stronger armor plating than wat he already has. Color of conqueror: well lets not get ahead of ourselves lol, he's strong but he wont ever be THAT strong (i.e. shanks, wb level) i mean not even marco has it, and u see how much of a beast he is.

About luffy and his gears, i think there is room for there to be a gear 4th or whatever he'd call it, but asking for a 5th,6th,etc is pushing it. remember how luffy combined 2nd and 3rd to fight Asgard Moria. Well wat if he did that again, proportioned the air in his body to go to all 4 limbs as well as his chest (and his hair, so he could get another afro lol), and then to top it all off added color or armament to vulcanize his body! He'd look like an all black and shiny version of nightmare luffy lol (with a fro') with sum difference here and there. he'd have gear 2 speed, gear 3 strentgh, and this new gear 4 defense and style appeal. *.* (plz look into this oda!)
And about them finding df's, i think it would be darn cool if they did come upon one along their journeys (hell, y not make it more than one) and then they hold onto it and give it to the next potential crew member. Plus, if it were a logia fruit, we would finally fill the logia void in the crew and see that new member grow with their powers (and hopefully they'd already be strong b4 the fruit, hence when they get it they'd have a high growth rate and become a part of the "monster quartet". lol sounds weird but couldnt find another cool way to say four). Well, if not logia i wouldnt mind a mythical zoan either, but just please NO MORE PARAMECIA! Unless its epic like wb or magellans.

Well thats my five cents. Wasnt planning to write out that much, but once i started i just couldnt stop. Sorta like oda lol

P.S. i too think it would be too soon to fight smoker right after stepping into the new world, but if they were to meet maybe someone interferes again, (like how his dad, bro, and potential wifey did lol) like say luffys long lost mother :o or his gramps now that he's out the marines.

xeteboi
January 23, 2011, 12:34 AM
for luffy: i think he is at least a shichibukai type now.. except for moria and croco who is the weakest of them.. at least a doflamingo type...

for zorro: i possibly agree that hed learned about coo and coa as well as for sanji

for ussop: i think he dont know about coa bout its important that he know atleast the coo for his sniping abilities

for robin: well, shes aware of it as far as i know

for chopper: i think he can control now his giant form and invented a medicine that is more monstrous than that., he lived with giant animals.

for brook: i wish he have some soundwave attacks rather than being a swordsman.

for franky: i dont think so that he posses haki, all i think is he is more stronger than the pacifistas now.

for nami: possesing coo will help her as a navigator.

my top 4 are
luffy-zorro-sanji-franky-robin=ussop- brook=chopper- then nami..

jorped
January 23, 2011, 06:35 AM
I was going to mention this, but you beat me to it lol. I also dont think chopper or ussop really know much about haki cuz if they did, they wouldve realized it during luffys battle with hammond and his men.

As for the rest of the crew i definetley think Robin knows about it, and with that knowledge may have tried to develop some form of it (as i dont think there would be a WHOLE lot more she could do with her df in terms of upgrades, besides bigger appendages lol) as well as improving upon her physical abilities (as rayleigh said, everyone has potential to use it, they just dont know about it. so if she knows, she may try to harness it somehow).

Zoro and Sanji may have experienced it already having fought ppl who may use it, and could have started to develop signs of it which may be more evident in the future. (lol, i notice neither of them are around whenever luffy uses it).

And for Franky yeah it would be cool if he knew haki, but in my opinion if he never learned it he wouldnt be out of the loop or weak or nuthin. He's a cyborg for cryin out loud, anything u can do with haki he could replicate with upgrades to his body! Color of observation: he could get x-ray eyes or eyes behind his head lol. Color of armament: he could get denser/stronger armor plating than wat he already has. Color of conqueror: well lets not get ahead of ourselves lol, he's strong but he wont ever be THAT strong (i.e. shanks, wb level) i mean not even marco has it, and u see how much of a beast he is.

About luffy and his gears, i think there is room for there to be a gear 4th or whatever he'd call it, but asking for a 5th,6th,etc is pushing it. remember how luffy combined 2nd and 3rd to fight Asgard Moria. Well wat if he did that again, proportioned the air in his body to go to all 4 limbs as well as his chest (and his hair, so he could get another afro lol), and then to top it all off added color or armament to vulcanize his body! He'd look like an all black and shiny version of nightmare luffy lol (with a fro') with sum difference here and there. he'd have gear 2 speed, gear 3 strentgh, and this new gear 4 defense and style appeal. *.* (plz look into this oda!)
And about them finding df's, i think it would be darn cool if they did come upon one along their journeys (hell, y not make it more than one) and then they hold onto it and give it to the next potential crew member. Plus, if it were a logia fruit, we would finally fill the logia void in the crew and see that new member grow with their powers (and hopefully they'd already be strong b4 the fruit, hence when they get it they'd have a high growth rate and become a part of the "monster quartet". lol sounds weird but couldnt find another cool way to say four). Well, if not logia i wouldnt mind a mythical zoan either, but just please NO MORE PARAMECIA! Unless its epic like wb or magellans.

Well thats my five cents. Wasnt planning to write out that much, but once i started i just couldnt stop. Sorta like oda lol

P.S. i too think it would be too soon to fight smoker right after stepping into the new world, but if they were to meet maybe someone interferes again, (like how his dad, bro, and potential wifey did lol) like say luffys long lost mother :o or his gramps now that he's out the marines.

Can say nothing about the bold part , its what i think also :)
You are right about franky importance of having an haki or not it almost doesnt matter, althought i kinda think that it would be important for him to have the color of armament he can upgrade upgrade is armor so he is not like he is in a huge disavantage .

color of conqueror is only for luffy :)

Also liked your ideas about the gear , i also think that 4º gear would be enough , and like that part that he somehow managed to use the second gear speed, third gear power and 4 gear defense and the afro lol :tem

like your idea of if they find a fruit it would be a logia , none of them is logia user, we have paramecias and also zoan but we dont have a logia and that certainly would be cool if they found one :)

but not sure if they would hold and leave to the next potencial crew mate, but also now that i think about it it makes some sense cuz during all this time we are used to see Zoro with swords, its not like we need him to have a df , he doesnt neeeded, the same applies to sanji. the only others that we could see getting a df would be or ussop or nami, i would be more in favor of nami cuz she is the weaker :) and cuz now they are going to the new world she is probably one of the most essencial crewmates , they can t aford to loose her ( lol they cant afford to loose anyone ) but as she is the weakest ........

but also wouldnt be bad to see a new crewmate getting it :)

But also wouldnt mind if it the fruit they find was a mythical zoan :o

Anduren
January 24, 2011, 07:41 AM
Just had an idea about a possible direction of the plot for the story in the new world: When the strawhats pass by the location of the new Marine headquarters, I want to see an arc where Luffy finally defeats Sentomaru, Zoro defeats PX0 (the Real Kuma), and Franky manages to convince Dr. Vegapunk to stop working for the world government. I guess it'd be a good way to introduce him and everything he knows about devil fruits and other things.

I figured this is an OK place to throw this in since the topic is "What you expect from now on" and its a long term prediction having nothing to do with recent chapters. Hope its okay. :amuse

jorped
January 24, 2011, 09:56 AM
Just had an idea about a possible direction of the plot for the story in the new world: When the strawhats pass by the location of the new Marine headquarters, I want to see an arc where Luffy finally defeats Sentomaru, Zoro defeats PX0 (the Real Kuma), and Franky manages to convince Dr. Vegapunk to stop working for the world government. I guess it'd be a good way to introduce him and everything he knows about devil fruits and other things.

I figured this is an OK place to throw this in since the topic is "What you expect from now on" and its a long term prediction having nothing to do with recent chapters. Hope its okay. :amuse

its okay , we can say here whatever you think that can happen in OP, so thx for giving your ideas :) .

Yeah it would be nice seeing Luffy against Sentomaru guz , Sentomaru although the fact that he doesnt have any df he is strong and he uses haki so it would be cool to see if luffy´s haki is better than Sentomaru´s.

About the part of seeing franky trying to convice vegaspunk to stop work for the government i kinda hope that it doesnt happen cuz i still want that the world government has some very strong people on his side, so in the end it is more interesting the story , but i hope they managed to get some good info about all of his reserches :D

Freid
January 24, 2011, 11:44 AM
Quite frankly I expect all the current members of the crew to learn haki at some point. The types of haki is not as straight forward as Rayleigh made it to be, or as most of us see it. It seems that simply training COA or COO would not mean that you are subsequently able to use all applications of that particular type at the same level.

For example, Sentomaru stated that he had the highest defence simply because of he's mastery of the COA. However, its obvious that he hasn't got the strongest attack, which would mean that he did not just train his COA in general, but had to independently and specifically train the defence aspect of it which could be due to a possible natural affinity to it. The COA's power varies between both uses. This is also the same with COO. It's not as basic as simply training it and to be skilled at sensing enemy location, predicting attacks or discerning the number of opponents; one would need to specifically train themselves in that aspect.

With that said, it is quite possible for someone within the crew with COO to be skilled at only predicting attacks, whilst sucking at sensing the opponents location. Inversely, another member of the crew with COO could specialize in sensing people's locations whilst sucking at predicting attacks. Another member could also be limited to using their COO only to discern the number of opponents there are whilst sucking at the other applications. The same applies to the use of COA within the crew. One could be skilled at the attack aspect whilst sucking at the defence, and another could be skilled at the defence whilst sucking at the attack. The ability to use all applications of both COO and COA at a considerable level is probably reserved for Luffy and Zoro. Sanji however would probably have a combination of one of the applicatiions of COA and one of applications of COO. Nami could probably specialise specifically in sensing enemy location with her COO, Chopper could specialise in defence with his COA etc.

This would settle the problem with everyone in the crew right now getting haki, as it would mean haki use within the crew is diverse and it would allow everyone to shine at their own use of it.

jorped
January 24, 2011, 12:45 PM
Quite frankly I expect all the current members of the crew to learn haki at some point. The types of haki is not as straight forward as Rayleigh made it to be, or as most of us see it. It seems that simply training COA or COO would not mean that you are subsequently able to use all applications of that particular type at the same level.

For example, Sentomaru stated that he had the highest defence simply because of he's mastery of the COA. However, its obvious that he hasn't got the strongest attack, which would mean that he did not just train his COA in general, but had to independently and specifically train the defence aspect of it which could be due to a possible natural affinity to it. The COA's power varies between both uses. This is also the same with COO. It's not as basic as simply training it and to be skilled at sensing enemy location, predicting attacks or discerning the number of opponents; one would need to specifically train themselves in that aspect.

With that said, it is quite possible for someone within the crew with COO to be skilled at only predicting attacks, whilst sucking at sensing the opponents location. Inversely, another member of the crew with COO could specialize in sensing people's locations whilst sucking at predicting attacks. Another member could also be limited to using their COO only to discern the number of opponents there are whilst sucking at the other applications. The same applies to the use of COA within the crew. One could be skilled at the attack aspect whilst sucking at the defence, and another could be skilled at the defence whilst sucking at the attack. The ability to use all applications of both COO and COA at a considerable level is probably reserved for Luffy and Zoro. Sanji however would probably have a combination of one of the applicatiions of COA and one of applications of COO. Nami could probably specialise specifically in sensing enemy location with her COO, Chopper could specialise in defence with his COA etc.

This would settle the problem with everyone in the crew right now getting haki, as it would mean haki use within the crew is diverse and it would allow everyone to shine at their own use of it.

as you i also think that haki is not as simple as rayleigh made it to be about the potencial of every type of haki. i also think that some users can be better using COA for some kinda of purpose than for other and the same applies for COO. i also hope that the all crew managed to at least be good in using a part of the correspond haki :). Zoro and Luffy is garanteed that are going to control those 2 haki very well but i also think that sanji will control both very well. and for ussop that wants to be a great sniper it would be very important him to controlling these 2 types

Freid
January 24, 2011, 02:46 PM
I would like to add that I think that someone with say COO, would still be granted the ability to use all of its applications; It is just left to the individual to either train one of the applications specifically, or the individuals natural affinity towards it. Training it and having a natural affinity go hand in hand though. A person who discovers that they have an affinity to a particular application in haki would probably train it specifically anyway.

For example, Nami has already been hinted at being naturally skilled at sensing. Therefore if she gets COO, Oda would most likely make her specialise in sensing enemy location and not the rest of the ways in which COO can be used. He would reserve that for another member of the crew to specialize in. Like I said earlier, this would make haki use within the crew more diverse.

As for Usopp. Usopp may be the only one outside of the monster trio to have some skill at both COA and COO. However, I don't think his defence COA would be that strong, and he might not also be that skilled at one or two of the ways you can use COO but would be relatively skilled at one.

jorped
January 24, 2011, 04:00 PM
i like always your ideas cuz they seem to be coherent based in what we know so i totally agree with everything you said :D

Lord Rayleigh
January 28, 2011, 09:09 AM
I don't expect Luffy to have a new gear but I expect him to have a lot of new attacks since he has a better control over his gears. He will probably surprise us a lot with his Gear 3 now that he keeps the air anywhere he wants in his body. He can create original attacks which are not upgraded normal attacks - you know classical attacks with the title Gigant before it. His Elephant Gun used against the Kraken is one example of this new mastering of Gear 3 and I'm really looking forward to seeing it.

Rosebullet Teacher
February 06, 2011, 01:02 PM
We havent seen it yet so Im thinking Choppers human form should be quite big now or at least his most noticeable difference. We've already seen how big his guard point is & since Choppers the youngest he should be right in the middle of his growth years.

Also he commented positively on the primitive barbarians weaponry so im seeing some gadget thats first & foremost a doctors tool but effective for fighting

FuS

Jorge D. Dragon
February 06, 2011, 01:48 PM
I don't think that anyone aside from Luffy mastered Haki to some degree with maybe Zoro as exeption. He might have learnt Haki to some extent also, but maybe colour of observation.
According to the other crew members having Haki I'm not that positive, cause the value of Haki will be lost a bit if everyone in Luffy's crew will have it. Of course we can expect Monster Trio gaining control over Haki at some point in the future, but I think that other members will just become better in their respective fighting styles.:)

Also in the last chapter Luffy told Mermaid Princess that his crew can't be captured by King and his army, so I think that he can mastered part of CoO that allowed Rayleigh to say the level of monsters power in comparicing with Luffy's power in the begining of Luffy's training with him.:)

Uriel
February 08, 2011, 11:29 PM
I don't expect Luffy to have a new gear but I expect him to have a lot of new attacks since he has a better control over his gears. He will probably surprise us a lot with his Gear 3 now that he keeps the air anywhere he wants in his body. He can create original attacks which are not upgraded normal attacks - you know classical attacks with the title Gigant before it. His Elephant Gun used against the Kraken is one example of this new mastering of Gear 3 and I'm really looking forward to seeing it.
And let's not forget that when he used it sea was already draining power of it.

If a weakened punch like that can do damage to a legendary Kraken, I can't imagine how many damage can deal in regular conditions.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 09, 2011, 03:32 AM
I'd say his Elefant gun can be one of the most devastating attacks in this manga for now, excluding the most powerful attacks from the Admirals and Enel:)

Aramix
February 14, 2011, 11:36 AM
About the Luffy's uses of haki and gear. For two years Luffy lived with animals. So there probably will be more animal-based attacks, like tiger gun, or snake gatling, something like that. And they'll have interesting effects, like tiger gun will cut the skin like knifes, snake gatling stun opponents and something like that :D

Aikidoka
February 16, 2011, 03:27 PM
About the Luffy's uses of haki and gear. For two years Luffy lived with animals. So there probably will be more animal-based attacks, like tiger gun, or snake gatling, something like that. And they'll have interesting effects, like tiger gun will cut the skin like knifes, snake gatling stun opponents and something like that :D
Luffy's new attack Elephant Gun is actually named after a real-life hunter's rifle (wiki page here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_gun)), which was built to take down large game like elephants. This fits with Luffy's theme of naming some of his attacks after guns (like the Pistol, Bazooka, Rifle, etc.). But it doesn't rule out your theory though -- Luffy could have new animal-themed attacks too; after all his attacks aren't named after just guns.

vagabond87
February 16, 2011, 06:02 PM
I see Luffy on Magellans level of strenght- stronger than most of VA but still inferior to Admirals

DutchPhoenix
February 20, 2011, 10:13 AM
Zoro , he's become really ruthless,

Eitherway,

2 years ago, the supernova's with their entire crew could barely beat 1 pacifista , and now we see zoro, sanji and luffy 1 hit k.oing them.

So all 3 of them are way stronger then any of the supernova of 2 years ago.


For current arc, the fishmen swordsman
-He blocked luffy's attack withoud too much trouble
-During the block, he poisened luffy
-Luffy would have died there due the poison if it wasnt for maggelen..

J1nsan
February 22, 2011, 05:53 AM
I think the next logical step for fighters of Sanji and Zoro's caliber is the acquiring of haki, which I think they most likely have now. If not both of them, Zoro for sure. The reason I possibly don't think Sanji doesn't is that he's learned Okama Kenpou and most likely just learned advanced technique and might have learned haki as well due to Ivankov being able to use haki. I believe his Death wink and any similar technique uses imbued haki as a basis for the destructiveness of said attack. Zoro's most likely learned haki as well since he learned under Mihawk who I think has shown us haki early on in the series. Mihawk cutting down Don Krieg's ships were most likely slashes imbued with haki.
Chopper has already shown us a new form in the kung fu point and his other forms have clearly upgraded. His reindeer form is larger and more mature looking and his guard point was large enough to cover the Sunny from attack under the sea. Who knows what other power ups his other forms got and how many new forms he has attained.

Realtwisted
February 22, 2011, 09:27 AM
I dont think the people who are in SH already without Df need Df. They were able to join for their respective skill they had and they are significant strong without then. With luffy case, i think he is good without a 4 or 5 gear mode, i dont want him to get kill himself. Third gear take a lot off his life spam.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 22, 2011, 12:13 PM
J1nsan
Where did you get impresion that Ivankov's Death Wink is Haki move?:) It's just an insane wink based on his DF's ability. If it had Haki in it he would be an actual match for Magelan in Impel Down or Akainu in Marineford, but he couldn't do anything against them.

Also about Mihawk cutting ships... unless it will be proven that he has Haki, we can assume that he doesn't have it. Also Zoro sliced a ship in half, but it doesn't show that he actually learned how to use Haki. In fact Zoro showed something like Colour of Observation in the battle against Mr1 in Arabasta, but he has to develop it and actually show it in the manga.;)

J1nsan
February 22, 2011, 02:54 PM
That's merely speculation on my part and what I think is possible with Haki. I don't think it's an impossibility since there has been mention of imbuing attacks and weapons with haki and that's why I said what I said. I also know there's no actual proof that Mihawk has haki but given that he's the greatest swordsman in the world and the fact that haki has proven to be such an integral part for powering up I'm assuming Mihawk does have haki. Whether Ivankov has it or not, I don't but but I'm pretty sure Mihawk does.

Uriel
February 23, 2011, 08:46 AM
I doubt a RA like him/her doesn't have Haki, actually. The fact that I did not see Dragon using it doesn't stop me assuring that He HAS Haki just by knowing his story.

So I would say Sanji possibly learned Haki from Ivankov.

kkck
February 23, 2011, 01:16 PM
To be completely honest I have very high expectations of the current strawhat pirates. Luffy right now has been a pirate for 3 years, almost the same time ace's own adventure lasted. During that that ace became a pirate with the sheer level to be a shichibukai, a commander of the WB pirates and he even showed he could hold an admiral at bay even if he could not necessarily win. Luffy has been a pirate for almost as long as ace and even spent 2 years exclusively training so I think he should be stronger than what ace was. Luffy should by all intents and purposes be able to at least hold his ground against people like admirals, VA or shichibukai even if not necessarily win (contrary to the time before the timeskip when luffy would be easily beaten by any such people under normal circumstances). Zoro and sanji have never been that behind him so I would expect roughly the same. Brook and franky should at least be quite a bit stronger than what luffy was before the timeskip and nami, ussop, robin and chopper should be at least the same as a supernova or more. The strawhat crew basically should be seen as a force in its own basically, not the rookie pirate crew from back in the day.

Calisto
February 27, 2011, 12:25 AM
I think Luffy is a mid - high tier now. Basically at Vice Admiral level.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 28, 2011, 06:33 AM
I don't understand why people see Zoro and Sanji not that far from Luffy?:)
In fact I'd say crew's bounties after Ennies Lobby were the best showcase of the difference between them. Luffy always fought the strongest opponents and those opponents were twice or sometimes even more powereful than Zoro's and also Zoro's were a bit stronger than Sanji's but I'd say that Zoro is considerably stronger than Sanji (the same proportion that is the difference between their bounties), cause Zoro is always fighting with some grave injuries that he always has from the previous arcs.
Ther most important part is that normally Luffy's opponent in every arc holds the power like Zoro's and Sanji's ultimate opponents combined, so it's just simple that they aren't at the same level.
Even though they are Monster Trio, it doesn't mean that all three of them hav roughly the same level of power.

Luffy also took down Kraken with one attack and I'd say not that many people in OP world exept Admirals and Enel can do it and the most important is that he did it in water and on a great depth, so on the land he should be even more powerful.

vagabond87
February 28, 2011, 12:10 PM
I don't understand why people see Zoro and Sanji not that far from Luffy?:)
In fact I'd say crew's bounties after Ennies Lobby were the best showcase of the difference between them. Luffy always fought the strongest opponents and those opponents were twice or sometimes even more powereful than Zoro's and also Zoro's were a bit stronger than Sanji's but I'd say that Zoro is considerably stronger than Sanji (the same proportion that is the difference between their bounties), cause Zoro is always fighting with some grave injuries that he always has from the previous arcs.
Ther most important part is that normally Luffy's opponent in every arc holds the power like Zoro's and Sanji's ultimate opponents combined, so it's just simple that they aren't at the same level.
Even though they are Monster Trio, it doesn't mean that all three of them hav roughly the same level of power.

Luffy also took down Kraken with one attack and I'd say not that many people in OP world exept Admirals and Enel can do it and the most important is that he did it in water and on a great depth, so on the land he should be even more powerful.

I disagree with many things from your post. Last part is ok btw :p
Monster Trio is not so far from Luffy in therms of strenght, they are behind him if we talk about willpower(Zoro is close and Sanji is making lot of progress;) and speed(Zoro always was close and Sanji is probably even closer after 2 years of running). If you wrote about Sanjis an Zoro opponents and that they power is like half of Luffys enemy power you are wrong. Kaku + Jyabura = Lucci? Only on paper. In ennies lobby arc Sanji showed us diable jambe, Zoro showed Asura and Luffy give us gears- Kaku and Jyabura were defeated after one "ultimate" attack of Sanji and Zoro and after that they were KO, Sanji and Zoro had to fight, run and even swim after fights with CP9. If belive that if they land asura or diable jambe on Lucci he would be damaged the same as after Luffys gear second attacks, and possibly even defeat him with those because heat for example cant be stopped by tekkai for what we know till now. The problem is that Sanji and Zoro werent as agile and fast as Luffy in G2.

If Sanji and Zoro spam their strongest techniques form start of their fights they would win easily over their enemies, Luffy wasnt even able to move an inch after his fight with Lucci, coock and marimo were far from being extremely exhausted.

So they arent equals but each of them are pretty close to each other(Luffy is D and have Kings haki so he always will be beast among beasts).

Zoro is most badass, Luffy is most epic and Sanji is the hero that saves the day with his mind- he is only slightly behind capitan and first mate.

Uriel
February 28, 2011, 12:12 PM
Why not? We have seen already fights between Zoro and Sanji. I would say they're on equal foot.

Bounties are proof of nothing, considering that Sanji is low-profile and Zoro is dumb-profile. :P

kkck
February 28, 2011, 01:52 PM
Jyabura and kaku had roughly the same doukiri and sanji and zoro won with roughly the same amount of dificulty though. I really don't see them being that far apart. Considering how both of them actually one shoted kaku and jyabura when they used their special techniques I would think that at least at that time they were roughly equal and closer to luffy than what was evident. Even when zoro and luffy fought (way back then though) they were fairly equal. I also don't see how training with mihawk is any different from training with raileigh. Sanji did not seem to get that good a teacher but he at least got 99 of them and ivankov who should still be very strong considering he did kick kuma around.

zelllogan
February 28, 2011, 02:12 PM
Jyabura and kaku had roughly the same doukiri and sanji and zoro won with roughly the same amount of dificulty though. I really don't see them being that far apart. Considering how both of them actually one shoted kaku and jyabura when they used their special techniques I would think that at least at that time they were roughly equal and closer to luffy than what was evident. Even when zoro and luffy fought (way back then though) they were fairly equal. I also don't see how training with mihawk is any different from training with raileigh. Sanji did not seem to get that good a teacher but he at least got 99 of them and ivankov who should still be very strong considering he did kick kuma around.
If you read zoro vs kaku & then sanji vs jyabura, Sanji had an easier fight than Zoro if you ask me.

It's obvious to think that Zoro is stronger than Sanji because Zoro almost always fight the second in command of any evil group. But it's also the only real reason to think that Zoro is stronger than Sanji .

Sanji is IMO as strong as Zoro. I give slightly the upperhand to Zoro because I think He is more focused but for the rest ... IMO, zoro is slightly more powerful while Sanji is slightly faster.

Anyways, I never read anything in the manga to prove me that Zoro is stronger than Sanji.

And after timeskip, they are still very close. The fight against the PX showed us this ...

Uriel
February 28, 2011, 08:51 PM
I don't know why people bring that fights into this without knowing exactly in what each training resulted. We don't know the limit yet and it's too early to predict it considering They're all in not the best place to showcase their abilities.

Anyway, If we will guide with CP9 fights, let's remember the level of our enemies (Douriki)
Rob Lucci: 4000 / vs Luffy
Kaku: 2200 / Vs Zoro
Jyabura: 2180 / Vs Sanji

So Sanji would have a fight SLIGHTY easier.

kkck
February 28, 2011, 09:10 PM
You have to consider luffy was pushed to his utmost extreme limits while sanji and zoro basically massacred kaku and jyabura with their special techniques and had it in them to take 100 marine captains. For that alone I don't think luffy is that far from either sanji or zoro. As for why this is brought up, simply because I believe the status quo in the crew remains and the difference remains largely the same. I think it would be largely anticlimatic if suddenly luffy represented 90% of the strawhats fighting capacity.

zelllogan
March 01, 2011, 11:08 AM
Now that I think about it, How many characters so far in one piece are clearly stronger than Sanj & fighting ,like sanji, without "cheats" (without devil fruit & without weapons) ????


Maybe Garp & that's all :D.

Uriel
March 01, 2011, 12:16 PM
BTW, I found this on DA which I think it's interesting to talk about Luffy's new strength:
http://kukriblades.deviantart.com/art/How-gear-4th-works-68598136

I think it's actually possible to be done and something cool to watch :O

Jorge D. Dragon
March 03, 2011, 07:36 AM
Guys you forgot that Luffy also fought against Bruno before he went to fight Lucci and also he took several thousands of soldiers. Even though those soldiers were weak it's still a big deal, cause his stamina isn't unlimited. Then, Of course Lucci is Kaku+Jabura, so I'd say that Luffy is Zoro+Sanji. And of course Luffy had more problems, cause he was actually rather low on stamina, cause he also used Gear Third to open the door to the underground pasage and it also added presure on his body.
I'd agree that Zoro isn't that far from Sanji, but Zoro is always fighting against the second strongest opponent and always has some wounds from previous arcs that makes him be at disadvantage against strong opponents.

Calisto
March 06, 2011, 03:30 PM
Luffy>Zoro>Sanji.

Though the gap is very tiny.

chrizzl
March 17, 2011, 09:33 AM
I would like to see luffy around the officers of the wb ie diamond jouzo level this is because they could beat most va's and atleast give a fight (not a winable one) to an admiral.

kkck
March 17, 2011, 10:08 AM
^I don't think that is too far out there.... Not that a fight against a VA would be winnable yet to the strawhats even if the monster trio can actually match a commander. As I said before, the monster trio has been around about as long as ace was during his time except that the 3 of them spent 2 years solely training. They should have the level to give an admiral, commander, shichibukai or VA at the very least a run for their money. Unlike the first part, currently the strawhats are a crew whose power the government should fear...trying to deal with them with anything less than a VA would be pointless.

kidopitz27
March 19, 2011, 08:38 AM
we don't really know what to expect from the SH crew why? because we only saw a glimpse of there powers and all of them are.Yes they are powerful but not in the full extent that they are fighting for their lives they look like not being being serious at all (and that is also a good indication that hey are really enjoying what they do :p)

and also each SH maybe has a strong point and a weak point just like every one else does like the WB commanders (jozu and marco) yes they are strong but that mindset in their mind that they are strong put them in jeopardy and they got owned :)

well have to wait a little more time to see if the SH is really powerful and maybe in the NW there are pirates who look at SH as a very weak pirates :p

kkck
March 19, 2011, 02:22 PM
I am sure there will be plenty of crews in the new world with the power to match or even beat the strawhats but I do think they will be at least above average(contrary to the first part of the series where they probably would have been among the weaker crews). At least IMO it would be strange if there weren't crews with individual members about as strong as a commander or a shichibukai but in turn they simply haven't been able to amass the power or influence that the yonkou have simply because they haven't had the right circumstances. Seriously, how strange would it be if luffy's only remaining challenge are the yonkou?

jorped
March 21, 2011, 06:19 AM
I am sure there will be plenty of crews in the new world with the power to match or even beat the strawhats but I do think they will be at least above average(contrary to the first part of the series where they probably would have been among the weaker crews). At least IMO it would be strange if there weren't crews with individual members about as strong as a commander or a shichibukai but in turn they simply haven't been able to amass the power or influence that the yonkou have simply because they haven't had the right circumstances. Seriously, how strange would it be if luffy's only remaining challenge are the yonkou?

you are right !!!! yonkous are not goig to be the only ones to be a difficult challenge to the SH , there are going to be other crews who are can also probably beat them. For example the supernovas crew! we dont know if they have become strong too, they probable did so its going to be also difficult for Luffy and the others to defeat them, and it is also a bit naive to think that there are not going to be pirates that we never have hear anything about and that their strenght is not something to fear.

I cant hope to see them entering in the new world and it would be awesome if they find a df, since i started reading OP thats one of the thinks that i think needs to definitely happen!!!

kkck
March 21, 2011, 10:57 AM
Somehow I doubt the supernova will be as strong as luffy is. They were doing pirating for two years so even though they must have gotten stronger I really doubt they would have gotten as strong as strong as the strawhats got from 2 years of solely training. Sanji was trained by 100 okamas (and apparently strong ones), zoro was trained by mihawk, luffy was trained by railiegh.... franky got technology from vegapunk.... Basically, they got stronger by training with the very best the world could throw at them non stop for two years. I don't think actually sailing the NW would give the supernova an edge over the strawhats considering that.

Bowser
March 21, 2011, 11:36 AM
Somehow I doubt the supernova will be as strong as luffy is. They were doing pirating for two years so even though they must have gotten stronger I really doubt they would have gotten as strong as strong as the strawhats got from 2 years of solely training. Sanji was trained by 100 okamas (and apparently strong ones), zoro was trained by mihawk, luffy was trained by railiegh.... franky got technology from vegapunk.... Basically, they got stronger by training with the very best the world could throw at them non stop for two years. I don't think actually sailing the NW would give the supernova an edge over the strawhats considering that.

Also, if they were at strong as each other, the 2 years worth of training would've been pretty pointless :/

zelllogan
March 21, 2011, 12:10 PM
I'm not so sure strawhats are the only rookies who spend 2 years training. Law said he wouldn't enter new world immediatly. I'm kinda curious about what he did. My guess is that he was busy gathering strong crewmembers.

Freid
March 21, 2011, 04:13 PM
To expand on what zellogan said, I can see one of the more important supernovas gathering a large crew like Whitebeard had that ain't filled with a bunch of fodders. I bet they would have a system within the crew similar to Whitebeard's commanders, but different.

Schabrak
March 22, 2011, 04:23 AM
Law could have just waited for the chaos of the aftermath to settle. If any of the Level 5/6 prisoners had formed a crew, they could easily bring terror to the isles as Sengoku mentioned. He was already on SA, so moving back wasn't really a possibility imo.

Freid
March 22, 2011, 04:49 AM
Yeah, I agree about Law not training during the 2 years. That didn’t seem like his intention at all. It may be possible that he did train, but it would depend on how long he remained idle for. All in all, theories about him training would be baseless. I don’t think that he stayed idle for more than a year or even a few months before he headed off into the New World.

Anyway I think that whoever believes that the Strawhats are now able to dwarf the likes of Law and Kidd in strength will be in for a surprise imo. Sure they will be stronger than them because it would be retarded for them not to be, but it probably won’t overwhelm the other ‘winning horses’ of their era.

ocajavati
March 22, 2011, 04:54 AM
Sanji's growth is probably considerably limited by the fact that he is at most on par or weaker than Ivankov.

Luffy and Zoro are off my chart of perception now. :oh

Freid
March 22, 2011, 04:58 AM
Ivankov is like just below Admiral level imo. I could just about live with Sanji being limited to that level of strength in his two years lol.

kkck
March 22, 2011, 11:38 AM
Sanji's growth is probably considerably limited by the fact that he is at most on par or weaker than Ivankov.

Luffy and Zoro are off my chart of perception now. :oh

Well, ivankov was extremely powerful though. He was able to kick the real kuma around. For all we know perhaps zoro and luffy would still not defeat him or perhaps they are just as strong as him. We don't know how strong the okama's sanji was forced to fight were either.... Sanji is a kicker and he spent two years solely running for the most part along with eating okama cuisine (which apparently makes you stronger just because lol). I don't think the status quo between those three has shifted.

kidopitz27
March 22, 2011, 12:01 PM
All of them after 2 years of training with their teachers will be the huge impact on their personality as well

like Sanji said when they are taming the kraken and he said that the kraken is cute and not scary new kamas are really scary look at them when they are leaving for FI and the new kamas are eating the marines literally :)

Zoro become more aggressive and maybe cocky and he wears a coat now and they look like Mihawk's coat when they are unbuttoned except it's color green

Uriel
March 23, 2011, 11:37 PM
I'm tired of defending Ivankov, but I'm glad someone recognizes His/Her strength.

And I bet they're in vice-admirals levels. That means they 1HKO underlings (As we saw from Luffy) 2HKO strong fighters (As we have somewhat seen on Fishman Island), provide a great fight worth to see against Vice Admirals and have a survivor fight against admirals and Yonkous.
...Which makes everything cool.

Also, I just want to write this because I want but...Robin TRAINED WITH DRAGON. Somehow, that's gotta mean something. She can make a fucking giant hand that IN WATER helped to avoid a hit and change its direction. Which means that She needed the same strength of the impulse if we go technical. And she did not looked tired after that. HOW COOL IS THAT?

Anyway, my only concern about Mugiwara strength is Brook. I don't know HOW He's gotten stronger, but I'm expecting his fame now can help the Mugiwaras somehow to MAJOR influence society against WG.

jorped
March 26, 2011, 10:34 AM
very interesting point :tem

of all them i think that brook was maybe the one that evolved less but as you said he is very popular now , lots of people are fan of him so maybe there is going to be somepeople that are going to believe maybe on the Straw Hats instead of the WG
( at some point it is going to be impossible to not happen an huge clash batween these 2)

chess4
March 26, 2011, 10:49 AM
i think everyone is like the the 2.0 versions of themsleves before the skip. brooks most dangerous powers was his music by putting people to sleep. he has been playing for 2 years straight, so im sure he has some new abilites with his music. maybe he has some new skills with the sword but im sure we will see.


i feel as if the monster trio fought an admiral they could at least keep from getting killed, i also feel that usopp could almost rival any sniper in the marines and he is quick on his feet. i cant place a certain level on anyone(like he is admiral level or she is VA level)

im not sure if they are the strongest rookie crew because we havent seen much from the others, much less one of the strongest crews when they enter the new world. the strawhats vs any crew's top 9 members they would give them pure hell in a battle royal though.

zelllogan
March 26, 2011, 11:15 AM
I'm tired of defending Ivankov, but I'm glad someone recognizes His/Her strength.

And I bet they're in vice-admirals levels. That means they 1HKO underlings (As we saw from Luffy) 2HKO strong fighters (As we have somewhat seen on Fishman Island), provide a great fight worth to see against Vice Admirals and have a survivor fight against admirals and Yonkous.
...Which makes everything cool.

Also, I just want to write this because I want but...Robin TRAINED WITH DRAGON. Somehow, that's gotta mean something. She can make a fucking giant hand that IN WATER helped to avoid a hit and change its direction. Which means that She needed the same strength of the impulse if we go technical. And she did not looked tired after that. HOW COOL IS THAT?

Anyway, my only concern about Mugiwara strength is Brook. I don't know HOW He's gotten stronger, but I'm expecting his fame now can help the Mugiwaras somehow to MAJOR influence society against WG.

And I'm tired of defending Brook.
I just quote myself:


Brook:
- excellent sword's technique (when ryuuma used his techniques, ryuuma was almost on par with zoro)
- good speed (among the strawhats , I think only the monster trio is faster)
- excellent agility (He is light )
- can walk on water
- Extremely Rapid Healing (he completely heal himself with a bottle of milk)
- can use music attacks in addition to his swordmanship ... making him deadly at low range (sword) & mid range (music)
- He is not considered by the other crewmembers as a member of the weak trio ...
- he got no organs, no vital points ...

And many people still manage to put him in the last three positions ... Brook is only ranked so low because he is the last strawhat to join & did not have occasions to show off.


Rankings among strawhats were always clear:

A-team: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji (known in the manga as the monster trio)
B-team: Franky, Robin, Brook
C-team: Nami, Usopp, Chopper (known in the manga as the weak trio

And there is a huge gap between each team.

Between A-team & B-team: Franky & Brook could barely understand the fight between Zoro & Ryuuma.

Between B-team & C-team: Franky took care of Chopper in Monster form with ONE attack ...

Shojin
March 26, 2011, 11:41 AM
Also, I just want to write this because I want but...Robin TRAINED WITH DRAGON. Somehow, that's gotta mean something. She can make a fucking giant hand that IN WATER helped to avoid a hit and change its direction. Which means that She needed the same strength of the impulse if we go technical. And she did not looked tired after that. HOW COOL IS THAT?


Pretty damn impressive indeed. Makes me wonder what else she learned during her time with him. :D

Btw, Is it just me or does anyone find that bus stop scene a little.....strange? Sorry, but I can't help but think that Oda left out what Robin did to them back there only just to leave us to believing that she delt with them using the same old method (clutching or twisting) when in truth, she actually did something different to them.

jorped
March 26, 2011, 11:47 AM
And I'm tired of defending Brook.
I just quote myself:


Rankings among strawhats were always clear:

A-team: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji (known in the manga as the monster trio)
B-team: Franky, Robin, Brook
C-team: Nami, Usopp, Chopper (known in the manga as the weak trio

And there is a huge gap between each team.

Between A-team & B-team: Franky & Brook could barely understand the fight between Zoro & Ryuuma.

Between B-team & C-team: Franky took care of Chopper in Monster form with ONE attack ...

i dont remember seeing Franky dealing with chopper in monster from , but if you say that i believe it .

On A-team theres nothing to disagree on, of course Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are the strongest.

After them , now i would say Franky cuz for me he had an awesome evolution on his skills during this 2 years and i think he is probably the 4th on strength.

About the others , the only place i think i am sure , is Nami's one , i think she is the weakest!
About Brook being stronger than Ussop and Chopper , i dont really know that :s
I think people underestimate a lot these 2, specially Chopper ! i dont think for example that Robin would win against them without any trouble , i can even doubt if she could beat them!!! Chopper is fast and is kung fuu seems very cool and with stronger moves and also Ussop isn't the scared baby and an weakling as he was before , until now i have only seen to moves from him, one of them saved them and their ship by being hitted by huge rocks and the other was just a childish think , but what i want to say is that he is probably very strong now!

except from Luffy , Zoro , Sanji and Franky, we cant really rank them with 100% sure
[hr]

Also, I just want to write this because I want but...Robin TRAINED WITH DRAGON. Somehow, that's gotta mean something. She can make a fucking giant hand that IN WATER helped to avoid a hit and change its direction. Which means that She needed the same strength of the impulse if we go technical. And she did not looked tired after that. HOW COOL IS THAT?


yeah Robin is a lot stronger.... :D

chess4
March 26, 2011, 12:58 PM
And I'm tired of defending Brook.
I just quote myself:


Rankings among strawhats were always clear:

A-team: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji (known in the manga as the monster trio)
B-team: Franky, Robin, Brook
C-team: Nami, Usopp, Chopper (known in the manga as the weak trio

And there is a huge gap between each team.

Between A-team & B-team: Franky & Brook could barely understand the fight between Zoro & Ryuuma.

Between B-team & C-team: Franky took care of Chopper in Monster form with ONE attack ...


personally i dont think there is an A squad or c squad. sanji summed it up best when he told usopp. i do things you cant, and you do things i cant.

thats what makes them so fearsome. they all have there place and do it well.

of course the monster trio are the 3 best fighters but like usopp said, even though luffy is strong he needs there help to get to the top

zelllogan
March 26, 2011, 02:03 PM
I didn't say C-team was useless (far from it) but as far as fighting skills go, they are the weakest strawhats. And that's a manga fact (they are the weak trio).

In order to win a fight against something else than fodder, they need to be sneaky, to hide, to avoid direct fight, to think, ...

But in a one vs one fair fight where they can't hide, I take any member of the B-Team over any member of the C-Team ...

Schabrak
March 26, 2011, 02:25 PM
zelllogan
Being sneaky and to think is part of fighting too.-_- They incorporate their knowledge to their advantage, that's what you do in a fighting style. If Ussop waits for the right distance than he uses his knowledge also. How can you translate that to their fighting power? Not everyone can be blessed with muscles like Zorro or Robin and Luffy with their DF abilities.

zelllogan
March 26, 2011, 02:35 PM
FACT IS "THEY ARE THE WEAK TRIO" :D
Rest is just discussion ...

Jorped >> I didn't rank members in each team. Nami is also the weakest for me.

jorped
March 26, 2011, 02:59 PM
yeah i know you didn't , i was talking about ranking Chopper and Ussop in the weakest team, i think they shouldn't be consider to be that weak in comparison to the others specially brook and robin.
i think that the team A is for me obviously composed by luffy, zoro and sanji and the weakest being Nami but about the others i am not really sure !

Wowzers
March 26, 2011, 04:24 PM
Wow, Nami is really getting no faith from the readers. Personally, I think Nami will bring out her weather control abilities and entire crews will fear being up against the Straw Hats.... assuming they survive being sunk by a variety of weather attacks. :)

jorped
March 26, 2011, 05:12 PM
if she ever manages to fully control the weather with maybe a better range of destruction she will obviously be someone to fear :)

eefrit
March 26, 2011, 06:50 PM
While I do expect them to be stronger than their previous selves, I think the main goal of the training was to get strong enough to survive the New World. As of now they seem like they are strong enough, but we have yet to see the horrors of the New World. I'm pretty sure they will meet their match many times while traveling the new seas, just like before the time skip. If I were to give a specific guess, I'd say they would be able to have an easier time surviving an encounter with an Admiral and go toe to toe with a Rear Admiral or Vice Admiral without losing badly. They could probably even pull out a win. Vice Admirals aren't really a good measure as they vary greatly in strength. Long story short, I'm not expecting them plow their way through the New World without any trouble as I am expecting more out of the New World than them at the moment.

LeKuaSimi
March 27, 2011, 03:11 AM
I think the strawhats were already stronger than most crews, perhaps even among supernovas (with the exception of Kid and Law), even before the timeskip. Afterall, surviving the grand line was not normal (most crews give up), and the strawhats didn't exactly take the most normal or easiest route. Most crews won't fight and even run from shichibukais, nor would they be able to defeat the likes of enel, or even dare to enter Enies Lobby or fight CP9 in the first place.


Guys you forgot that Luffy also fought against Bruno before he went to fight Lucci and also he took several thousands of soldiers. Even though those soldiers were weak it's still a big deal, cause his stamina isn't unlimited. Then, Of course Lucci is Kaku+Jabura, so I'd say that Luffy is Zoro+Sanji. And of course Luffy had more problems, cause he was actually rather low on stamina, cause he also used Gear Third to open the door to the underground pasage and it also added presure on his body.
I'd agree that Zoro isn't that far from Sanji, but Zoro is always fighting against the second strongest opponent and always has some wounds from previous arcs that makes him be at disadvantage against strong opponents.

Also Luffy fought one Pacifista by himself while Zoro joined forces with Sanji against one Pacifista.

frontaLobotomy
March 27, 2011, 08:53 AM
The way I see it, since the timeskip the crew appear to have gathered enough strength to be able to fight in the New World. Meaning, if they came across a Yonkou, they would be able to fight them and not get killed. That isn't to say that they'd be able to win, but not getting killed is a start.

Uriel
March 27, 2011, 10:19 AM
Wow, Nami is really getting no faith from the readers. Personally, I think Nami will bring out her weather control abilities and entire crews will fear being up against the Straw Hats.... assuming they survive being sunk by a variety of weather attacks. :)
If Strawhats ever reach the Thunder Island, Nami would be THE MAN to fear. :O

And I somehow THINK that some of the islands in the new world are meant to make the crew even more stronger (Somehow the island where they Apoo's Crew flew makes me wonder if Brook wouldn't learn to "walk" also in the air)

chess4
March 27, 2011, 10:23 AM
The way I see it, since the timeskip the crew appear to have gathered enough strength to be able to fight in the New World. Meaning, if they came across a Yonkou, they would be able to fight them and not get killed. That isn't to say that they'd be able to win, but not getting killed is a start.

they would get destroyed by a yonkou crew. remember al of the yonkou have pretty big crews(well the 2 we have seen) no way way 9 pirates can take on a bunch of pirates.

lets not forget WB was sick. i think if the monster trio fought shanks, he would still destroy them rather easily. i think the strawhats are at the midway point of their growth.

Wisshard
March 27, 2011, 03:44 PM
[...]lets not forget WB was sick.[...]
If you are insinuating that Shanks was stronger than Whitebeard, you are awfully mistaken. Whitebeard was the undisputed strongest (http://manga.bleachexile.com/one-piece-chapter-234-page-12.html) man -- stronger than everyone else in the world (yes, that includes Shanks (^and Garp)) -- while he was sick and old.

That being said, I also imagine that Shanks would whoop the Monster Trio's assess in a fight; they still have a way to go before they can hold their own against a world-class combatant.

chess4
March 27, 2011, 08:37 PM
If you are insinuating that Shanks was stronger than Whitebeard, you are awfully mistaken. Whitebeard was the undisputed strongest (http://manga.bleachexile.com/one-piece-chapter-234-page-12.html) man -- stronger than everyone else in the world (yes, that includes Shanks (^and Garp)) -- while he was sick and old.

That being said, I also imagine that Shanks would whoop the Monster Trio's assess in a fight; they still have a way to go before they can hold their own against a world-class combatant.

no sir you are wrong......remember this. look at what marco said

http://www.onepiecehq.com/read-manga/one-piece-563/page-10.html#

he was old and sick and therefore not the same WB that competed with roger. if you read further into the chapter, WB even said himself that he couldnt be the strongest forever.

the reason no one tested WB was because the knew how strong he was in the past, so he had been living off his great rep for years.

i mean WB had 1600 crew members and an additional 43 pirate crews go to marineford with him. a crew with have to be crazy to want to take on WB.

but back to the original point.....if the strawhats fought an admiral to the death, they probably would win, but they would lose so members in the process. if they all jumoed on shanks, i think they would be slaughtered. Since we have only seen WB and shanks fight, we can only assume the other 2 yonkou are just as strong

Ninja_Pirate
March 28, 2011, 05:29 AM
no sir you are wrong......remember this. look at what marco said

http://www.onepiecehq.com/read-manga/one-piece-563/page-10.html#

he was old and sick and therefore not the same WB that competed with roger. if you read further into the chapter, WB even said himself that he couldnt be the strongest forever.

the reason no one tested WB was because the knew how strong he was in the past, so he had been living off his great rep for years.

i mean WB had 1600 crew members and an additional 43 pirate crews go to marineford with him. a crew with have to be crazy to want to take on WB.

but back to the original point.....if the strawhats fought an admiral to the death, they probably would win, but they would lose so members in the process. if they all jumoed on shanks, i think they would be slaughtered. Since we have only seen WB and shanks fight, we can only assume the other 2 yonkou are just as strong

Considering Zoro has been trained by Hawk eye .. He must have at least gotten very close to the combat skills of hawk eye if not same (considering how much effort zoro put in every time he gets his ass kicked or face difficult situations).. and shanks had duel with hawk eye resulting in draws..

I dont see any other training session coming in for SHs in future.. so thats how they r now and now they just progress through opponents ,,, strong-->stronger--->strongest.. and will grow during fights.. as they have done in the first half of their journey..

jorped
March 28, 2011, 05:52 AM
i expect Zoro to still be weaker than Hawk and it can't happen other way, cuz thought they needed to become stronger during these 2 years, they can't be stronger now than some elite of pirates or the elite of the marine , we will need to see them growing some times!

but is it going to be enough 10 members ??? most of the pirates crews have much more than it, i don't see Luffy and the others winning against a big and a well know crew , only with 10 members, but i also understand how much difficult would be for Oda to raise the crew number, and in the end its not only about the one piece but yes about being also the pirate king , someone that is praised by the other pirates.
Is 10 members enough to hold that responsibility and that position?

zelllogan
March 28, 2011, 06:22 AM
Strawhats are composed of elite members. Each member will probably be at least as strong as Whitebeard captains (at the end of the manga).
And The weaker strawhats (nami & usopp) are great "fodder disposal devices". So, they don't need more than 10 members.

Wisshard
March 28, 2011, 03:26 PM
no sir you are wrong......
In his introduction, Whitebeard was presented with an information box where the-all-knowing narrator (Oda) told us that however sickly that old guy hooked up on tubes appeared, he was the strongest man in the world.

Consequently, whether Whitebeard was the strongest fellow around or not is not a subject open for argument; Whitebeard was the strongest, old and sick as he was, and that is that.

Now, obviously Whitebeard has gradually declined since his heyday because of age and illness (e.g. Marco highlights that Whitebeard's reflexes and/or CoO used to be out of this world) and he would have continued to deteriorate, had he lived through the war (hence, Whitebeard plainly wouldn't have remained the strongest man in the world forever).


i mean WB had 1600 crew members and an additional 43 pirate crews go to marineford with him. a crew with have to be crazy to want to take on WB.
That is an absurd argument to make. Commanding formidable military forces doesn't mean that you can't be strong(est); in fact, basically all of the strongest combatants alive commands similarly/stronger military forces than Whitebeard did (e.g. Dragon, the other Yonkou's, The Fleet Admiral and the Admirals).


if the strawhats fought an admiral to the death, they probably would win, [...]if they all jumoed on shanks, i think they would be slaughtered.
^You really think that there is such a significant gap between Shanks and the Admirals...?

chess4
March 28, 2011, 03:46 PM
In his introduction, Whitebeard was presented with an information box where the-all-knowing narrator (Oda) told us that however sickly that old guy hooked up on tubes appeared, he was the strongest man in the world.

Consequently, whether Whitebeard was the strongest fellow around or not is not a subject open for argument; Whitebeard was the strongest, old and sick as he was, and that is that.

Now, obviously Whitebeard has gradually declined since his heyday because of age and illness (e.g. Marco highlights that Whitebeard's reflexes and/or CoO used to be out of this world) and he would have continued to deteriorate, had he lived through the war (hence, Whitebeard plainly wouldn't have remained the strongest man in the world forever).


That is an absurd argument to make. Commanding formidable military forces doesn't mean that you can't be strong(est); in fact, basically all of the strongest combatants alive commands similarly/stronger military forces than Whitebeard did (e.g. Dragon, the other Yonkou's, The Fleet Admiral and the Admirals).


^You really think that there is such a significant gap between Shanks and the Admirals...?

i do! the admirals a so feared because of their logia ability, but i think shanks has full control over all 3 forms of haki. yes i kmow that the admirals possess haki as well.

jozu, ace, and marco were on par with the aokiji and kizaru. the only reason jozu lost to aokiji and marco to kizaru was because they were concerned about WB. Shanks imo opinion is stronger than them.


i mean an outta shape rayleigh held serve against kizaru. shanks is the best of the best.

Uriel
March 28, 2011, 04:12 PM
You've to think that "The strongest man in the world" was a tittle given by World Government after Roger's death. When was introduced by Oda, the epitaph was to introduce him as the world knows him, to measure how dangerous He was. It's not a state that confirms that He's the current strongest man in the world, but the one who holds that tittle "officially" in the world's diegesis.

Let's try to not take some things as bible when Oda doesn't intend so. Most introductions are literate methods and resources of storytelling.


but is it going to be enough 10 members ??? most of the pirates crews have much more than it, i don't see Luffy and the others winning against a big and a well know crew , only with 10 members, but i also understand how much difficult would be for Oda to raise the crew number, and in the end its not only about the one piece but yes about being also the pirate king , someone that is praised by the other pirates.
Is 10 members enough to hold that responsibility and that position?
Allies counts as well if we talk about war and such. Anyway, Strawhats are the crew of the next pirate King. They 10 must be the best in the world in their roles and strongest than anyone else in what they do.
Even Nami being weak doesn't mean She can't fight strong opponents, means that the strongest will fight Luffy. Get what I'm trying to say?

Jorge D. Dragon
March 29, 2011, 01:27 AM
Even though they will be strongest in their roles in the future, I do believe that they will need more than 10 crew members aside of Luffy, cause it's imposible to fight when you are ganged for example by 3 Admirals and 10 Vice Admirals even though you are best of the best. Even WB's crew didn't need that much attention in the fight.

Rosebullet Teacher
March 29, 2011, 02:59 AM
Brooke has shown some basic old school Brooke fencing, but just think how 2 years of playing can be used offensively.

Whenever hes fought recently it hasnt been against serious opponents & his nakama have been around. Theres a part of the ear responsible for balance, I think that could be hurt with some sonic manipulation maybe his sound based attacks would've affected all those around him. We have seen Apoo use sound waves for attack, im thinking of Brooke using the waves & transferring the vibration through his sword to an enemy causing nausea, bouncing sound off walls too.

I couldnt think of as many as i thought i could, but basically its like the Patton Oswalt joke about rock stars warping reality with their skills, flebbity flooba fleeb!

FuS

Ninja_Pirate
March 29, 2011, 06:44 AM
. We have seen Apoo use sound waves for attack, im thinking of Brooke using the waves & transferring the vibration through his sword to an enemy causing nausea, bouncing sound off walls too.


FuS

Isnt that Apoos devil fruit :)

kkck
March 29, 2011, 11:52 AM
Isnt that Apoos devil fruit :)
This is just my opinion but I think apoo's fruit just allows him to transform his body into musical instruments. The part where his music makes stuff explode would be independent. In that scenario it would make sense for brook to be capable of acquiring such skills.

Uriel
March 29, 2011, 05:59 PM
Even though they will be strongest in their roles in the future, I do believe that they will need more than 10 crew members aside of Luffy, cause it's imposible to fight when you are ganged for example by 3 Admirals and 10 Vice Admirals even though you are best of the best. Even WB's crew didn't need that much attention in the fight.
3 Admirals versus the Monster Trio.

Anyway, I DOUBT they will fight W.G. by themselves. Allies will show up if the scenario happens.

Jorge D. Dragon
March 30, 2011, 12:30 AM
LordUriel
I actually doubt that they would be so strong to take down Admirals by themself. I can see Luffy taking down the Admiral and might be Zoro, but barely practically dying. If all three of them will take down an Admiral it would mean that every one of them will be stronger than Whitebeard...
Also I can't see the crew fighting all the top Marine's fighters. If Monster Trio takes 3 Admirals then other 7 or 8 will take 10 Vice Admirals? Give me a break.:)
I hope they will have bigger crew. At least more than 10 people exept Luffy.:) And also I think they will fight with Revolutionary Army as allies.:)

Uriel
March 30, 2011, 12:49 AM
Why not? They suppose to be the next pirate king crew. They should be stronger than Whitebeard.
I'm not saying NOW though. You've no faith, huh? xD

Schabrak
March 30, 2011, 04:33 AM
Jorge D. Dragon
Yeah we got it... you want ["crew number"-"Monster Trio"+X] Vice-Admirals and we probably got over two dozen at the end of the manga, but why can't you see the Mugiwaras grow that much? They have potential and their growth from East Blue to SA is likely just as big as what they have to grow from their current upgraded versions to be able to defeat BB. As we've seen from Coby chracters are able to grow at an immense speed.

Whitebeard commanders were never said to be on a special level[Shichibukai/VA/...] and neither had Oda the time to give each of them a fight in the chaos to show of many of them, as they are just secondary characters. Would you say the same about Shanks crew not being able to take just the top of the Marines from their appearance in the war?[Not win or lose]

kkck
March 30, 2011, 04:48 AM
I still think that in their current condition the best case scenario is that the monster trio can hold their ground against an admiral but even then winning the fight is a bit too much. We have to remember that in the first half of the series luffy and co were outright to weak to make an assessment of how they compared to actual strong people. Back then with the level of strength they had a commander or an admiral wouldn't have noticed if the strawhats were ten times stronger or weaker, they would have been butchered by such people with virtually the same amount of effort in either case. It is just now that we can begin to compare the strength of the people we saw during the war arc against the strawhats since it is just now that it should approach the same scale. IMO, as I said before, they could hold their ground against strong people but oda has left enough ambiguity out there so that there is still a probability that people such as the admirals, commanders or yonkou could still take the entire strawhat crew on their own (although not necessarily with the same ease).

Jorge D. Dragon
March 30, 2011, 12:16 PM
LordUriel
Even though they are going to be the crew of the next Pirate King I don't believe that they will be individually strong enough to take down Admirals and Vice Admirals. I can see Zoro and Sanji ganging an Admiral in the future, but both of them not only will need to master Haki, but master it to a great extent. For Zoro or Sanji to take down an Admiral means to surpass Whitebeard as he was during the War in Marineford. I hihgly doubt they will manage to do it.

Schabrak
I can see them growing and I hope they will grow, but still it would be a bit strange that the 10 persons would take down all the 13 or 14 of the top Marine soldiers by themselves. It would be a bit too much for them. I'm not saying they won't surpass WB commanders. I'm sure most of them will surpass WB commanders, but I don't think that Zoro or Sanji will take down an Admiral on their own. WB will look useless.

Also about Shanks and his crew... I'd say that they wouldn't do better than Whitebeard and his crew. Of course after taking WB and his commanders Marines were drained and couldn't take down another Yonkou and his crew that easily, but I'm sure that even in that situation Shanks would loose many of his people, cause all the Admirals and the majority of Vice Admirals were ready to fight.

Uriel
March 30, 2011, 02:25 PM
Who says Zoro and Sanji does not have Haki already? There is NO sign that they don't.

We haven't even begin to see how strong they became.

kkck
March 30, 2011, 04:45 PM
Based on what the doctor from the marines said, haki is something that awakens with strength and experience. Zoro and sanji have both, there is no reason for them to not have haki really. The issue is to what extent it has been mastered. Zoro was trained by mihawk, someone who has been around for over 20 years and kicked more ass than several pirate crews combined. Haki should be as natural to him as it is to whitebeard, shanks or Rayleigh. If that is the case then it is only natural he would also teach zoro. Sanji was apparently trained by 100 okamas, and one of them would seem to be ivankov, an exceedingly powerful fighter. As we also saw with coby, stressful situations can also cause haki to awaken. Sanji's experience in okama island probably had a much greater impact on him than what the war had on coby. Basically, based on what we know at least for zoro haki should be seen as a certainty and in a worst case scenario sanji is just that close to acquiring it. Anyways, haki is something which all the crew should acquire with time, it is a must when it comes to fighting fruit users from the most part.

That said, I do think luffy, zoro and sanji will eventually be individually stronger than admirals. They will need at least that much to survive against powerful enemies.

xeteboi
March 30, 2011, 10:12 PM
Even though they are going to be the crew of the next Pirate King I don't believe that they will be individually strong enough to take down Admirals and Vice Admirals. I can see Zoro and Sanji ganging an Admiral in the future, but both of them not only will need to master Haki, but master it to a great extent. For Zoro or Sanji to take down an Admiral means to surpass Whitebeard as he was during the War in Marineford. I hihgly doubt they will manage to do it.

They dont really need to surpass Whitebeared coz He can handle an Admiral in a sick situation which means that a Whitebeared alone "which is not sick" is much for an Admiral.

Jorge D. Dragon
March 31, 2011, 05:49 AM
LordUriel
Exuse me, but until it's proven that they have and can use Haki neither Zoro nor Sanji has or can use it. I think it's logical.

xeteboi

They dont really need to surpass Whitebeared coz He can handle an Admiral in a sick situation which means that a Whitebeared alone "which is not sick" is much for an Admiral.
Actually Whitebeard couldn't inflict sufficient damage to KO any of the Admirals (even though he was sick he was called the strongest man), so I do believe that if Sanji or Zoro will KO and Admiral on their own they will surpass WB and that would be a bit insane.

I can see Zoro and Sanji ganging an Admiral, but not KO him on their own.

xeteboi
March 31, 2011, 06:14 AM
Actually Whitebeard couldn't inflict sufficient damage to KO any of the Admirals (even though he was sick he was called the strongest man), so I do believe that if Sanji or Zoro will KO and Admiral on their own they will surpass WB and that would be a bit insane.

So you mean that defeating an Admiral should be killing it by your word KO? Whitebeared inflicted Sakazuki with a great damage actually.

I don't care if he was called the strongest man even-though he is sick. What I'm pointing is that he can handle an admiral himself even if he was sick. The only chance that Sakazuki landed him a blow is because of his state "oldness and sickness" as far as what Ive watched in the anime. So a young and non sick Whitebeared would definitely win against a 1 on 1 battle on an Admiral.

neomaster121
March 31, 2011, 06:36 AM
3 admirals
and we have the monster trio

i don't think we will see luffy one by one taking out the admirals
also luffy fought against 2 shichibukai
Zoro fought against 2 shichibukai (tho lost)

so there should be at least an opotunity for sanji and Zoro to fight against admirals

Luffy vs AKani
Zoro vs kizaru
Sanji vs Ajoki
done

Jorge D. Dragon
March 31, 2011, 06:54 AM
xeteboi
Defeat is when a person can't continue fighting and every Admiral continued fighting until the War was ended, so no WB never defeated any Admiral.

Actually the fight in the anime is quite different from what was actually in the manga, so it's not right to compare them. The actual truth is what was shown in the manga. Also Sakazuki actually inflicted more damage to WB and it was way more serious. WB eventually would have died from such injuries.
Of course if WB was younger and wasn't sick he would have defeated an Admiral or maybe even two, but as we saw him in the manga he couldn't defeat even one.

Also I was saying that I can't see Zoro and Sanji defeating Admiral one on one, cause even to surpass that old and sick WB is not an easy feat and not only for persons without DF, but for everyone. WB was a monster who could tank more than anyone we've seen in the manga, he had tremendous physical power and one of the strongest DF. He also had quite good Haki and had Haoshuku Haki, but still he couldn't defeat even one Admiral.
So those who asume that for example Sanji will defeat an Admiral believe that his kick would be stronger than the quake that can literary turn the island upside down?

Uriel
March 31, 2011, 04:06 PM
Logical has proven to be insufficient with One Piece. You're thinking with the logic of other manga, I believe. MORE if we talk about Luffy, which all the rules prescribed break incredibly fast and with an unbelievable but coherent reason.

Luffy WILL BE THE DAMN PIRATE KING. Enough to say that if Raileigh, the second in command of Roger, old and all COULD stop Kizaru and survive the fight without injuries...Then Zoro the second in command of Luffy, the man who will surpass Roger, can do the same and overcome that fight with better ressults considering ALSO the age. And if we think that Monster Trio are quite balanced, then Sanji wouldn't be that far of being able to achieve the same.

To achieve that, they need to already have learned the basics of Haki.

Jorge D. Dragon
April 01, 2011, 12:19 AM
LordUriel
I agree that Luffy will surpass both WB and Roger to become Pirate King in this age, but I don't think that Zoro and Sanji will become stronger or significantly stronger than Rayleigh and Roger's Second Mate.
Luffy is considerably stronger than Sanji or Zoro and even though they are Monster Trio the same logic can't be implied for Luffy and his other crew members. He is the main hero, so of course he will surpass everyone, but we can't say that his teammates will surpass the stronest man aside from Gol D. Roger in this manga.

Uriel
April 01, 2011, 09:07 AM
Zoro has been always close and Luffy wouldn't be happy if He couldn't rely on him to protect the rest of the crew. Same as Sanji.

Think on the kids. (?)

jorped
April 01, 2011, 09:27 AM
On my opinion i think that we can expect a lot from each of the straw hats, Luffy is probably going to become in the end the most powerful guy that has ever existed, and Sanji and Zoro won't be very far from that, in my opinion ! Both Zoro and Sanji in the end are probably going to have power to challenge a Admiral and most likely to defeat them !!!!

Of course Luffy is the strongest but both Zoro and Sanji have always been close to him! If Luffy is going to become the pirate king and most likely the strongest man ever , Sanji and Zoro have also to be very strong!!!

but after this chapter i got the idea that maybe Jimbei has a chance of joining the crew. Before this chapter i thought that Jimbei joining SH could happen but i never gave to it much probability of ending happening but after this chapter something in me gave me the feeling that that has changed, what do you guys think about it?

zelllogan
April 01, 2011, 01:24 PM
I was busy watching thriller bark again ... episode 348 ... I didn't remind that Brooke was that impressive ... He did saved both robin & Franky who were utterly defeated ... And he did it in one attack against that spider ...

I really don't understand how most people can put him around the same level of the weak trio ...
At the same moment, Usopp & Chopper were pathetic against Lola ...

jorped
April 01, 2011, 02:09 PM
i read the 609 chapters out of OP on that time in more and less 8 days, so it means that i read it pretty fast. but on that time unless i didn't find brook weak i also didn't found in spectacular, but i guess that i can also be with wrongs ideas about him! of brook in thriller bark i can only remember him loosing to a swordsman, which was after defeated by Zoro , i think .

i think brook is a bit victim of one of the most boring arcs of OP (thriller bark - where he was introduced!

zelllogan
April 01, 2011, 02:18 PM
i read the 609 chapters out of OP on that time in more and less 8 days, so it means that i read it pretty fast. but on that time unless i didn't find brook weak i also didn't found in spectacular, but i guess that i can also be with wrongs ideas about him! of brook in thriller bark i can only remember him loosing to a swordsman, which was after defeated by Zoro , i think .

i think brook is a bit victim of one of the most boring arcs of OP (thriller bark - where he was introduced!

From thriller bark, I also remembered only his defeat to ryoma but the way he defeat the spider before is impressive.

The spider took that enormous nunchaku from Franky & wasn't that much hurt. Brook cut the spider in two extremely easily.

jorped
April 02, 2011, 04:33 AM
yeah you are right maybe most of us should think a little highly of Brook, hope he does great thinks during this FI arc :)

Ero-Sanji
April 02, 2011, 06:10 AM
I think both Brooke and Chopper are heavily underestimated and it's really not that strange due to the fact that their awesome fighting moments are overshadowed by their weakness in their funny moments. Just recently, Zoro was portrayed as the cool and strong hero while Brooke stood for the comedy.

Hopefully we'll see more of both Chopper and Brooke!

Uriel
April 02, 2011, 01:05 PM
Right now having not seen the human form is something I'm actually quite curious about. Seeing only the Kung Fu Point does not impress me. But I have high confidence in him, without even thinking on Monter Point.

jorped
April 02, 2011, 02:26 PM
i also have an huge confidence on Chopper and i was impressed with his Kung Fu point!!!! can't wait to see to see more of him :)

Ninja_Pirate
April 04, 2011, 12:51 PM
I dont see anyone from the monster trio grouping up against anyone... VA , admiral, first mate of yonkou etc... against there pride.. so they have to grow eventually and individually.. :)

kkck
April 04, 2011, 01:16 PM
They already have teamed up against admirals though. Aokiji almost killed them but they did team up against him. The crew as a whole also fought the pacifista back in the day. Zoro and sanji double teamed a pacifista. If it is necessary the strawhats will team up without a second thought.

Ninja_Pirate
April 04, 2011, 01:55 PM
Pacifista and aokiji case seemed different... luffy took aokiji one on one afterwards... also they never took it as a man to man fight to start wid... they just tested him to start wid... and then only luffy said i will fight him one on one..

against kuma when sanji kicked him in middle of zoro vs kuma... zoro did get angry wid that... when they realized its a robot only they teamed up against him at SA... i still think they wud like to have a one on one fight rather than teaming up...

another case at thriller bark.. oz was a pawn and they teamed up against him and once moriah was out only luffy fought him..

kkck
April 04, 2011, 02:31 PM
Luffy only fought one on one because he wanted to give his crew a chance to run. And he did fight "mano a mano", that much was in the manga and the reason aokiji did not go after the rest of the crew. It did not seem like a test though. I really don't think the strawhat pirates have any reservation about ganging up on someone. They are pirates for crying out loud. Rather than actually giving a crap about fighting one on one or ganging up, what the crew does is simply have each member fulfill their part.

Ninja_Pirate
April 04, 2011, 03:15 PM
Luffy only fought one on one because he wanted to give his crew a chance to run. And he did fight "mano a mano", that much was in the manga and the reason aokiji did not go after the rest of the crew. It did not seem like a test though. I really don't think the strawhat pirates have any reservation about ganging up on someone. They are pirates for crying out loud. Rather than actually giving a crap about fighting one on one or ganging up, what the crew does is simply have each member fulfill their part.

Yes they are pirates but they have done lot of things with there sense of justice.. which pirates might not do.. moreover i see that zoro takes his pride more in being a swordsman than a pirate ... though he can go beyond limits on that when it is a question of helping luffy to be pirate king (like asking hawk eye for training) .. but still that is as far as it goes.. to find time for escaping with a gang attack is different but going on a direct fight to decide is different..... when the time comes everyone will choose their opponents for sure:)

chess4
April 08, 2011, 03:14 PM
the strawhats will have to be strong since they will be a small crew. i will compare them to some characters that i think they will be as strong as

luffy- will be just as strong as roger was in his prime. rogers could hear the voice of all things. i think that rogers had such control over the 3 haki's tht it evolved into that ability.

zoro- he will be like mihawk and rayleigh mix together. he will develp the 3 haki's like rayleigh, but will be a pure sword user like mihawk.

sanji-will be like invonkov and red leg zeff mix together times 4. sanji was taught by zeff and invoknov, so of course he will just use his legs but has incorporated some newkama kenpo as well. he will develop color of armnament and observation.

usopp- he will be like yassop and hurcules mix together times 2. he will develop color of arnament and observation.

frankie-he will be like kuma times 2. no haki but maybe seastone implants in his arms or something.

brook-he will be like vista 1.5 with a bit of scratchman apoo in there.

chopper-if you were to take half the strength oz jr, half the strength of diamond jozu, with a sprinkle of marco then thats what chopper will eventually be fighting wise.

robin/nami- i think they will both be around strength of boa hancock, minus the haki's.

*special*

since i think hyouzou is going to join the crew, i think he will be fisher tiger 2.0

zelllogan
April 08, 2011, 03:44 PM
The only argument to overrate Usopp so much is that Yasopp is his father.
We don't even know how strong Yasopp is ... & why should the strawhats match themselves with the red hair pirates ? The second in command is a wise gunman (Beckman) & the captain is a swordman who sparred with mihawk ...

Face it, Usopp is one of the two weaker strawhats.
The way you underrate robin & brook is laughable as well.

Usopp won't ever be stronger than robin, brook or Franky. Those 3 are out of his league.

Usopp & Nami will grow stronger but their main job will always be "fodder disposal" added to their "versatility" which can be used in some specific situations. They will become strong but the ranking within the strawhats didn't change after timeskip & won't ever change ...

chess4
April 08, 2011, 06:52 PM
The only argument to overrate Usopp so much is that Yasopp is his father.We don't even know how strong Yasopp is ... & why should the strawhats match themselves with the red hair pirates ? The second in command is a wise gunman (Beckman) & the captain is a swordman who sparred with mihawk ...

Face it, Usopp is one of the two weaker strawhats.
The way you underrate robin & brook is laughable as well.

Usopp won't ever be stronger than robin, brook or Franky. Those 3 are out of his league.

Usopp & Nami will grow stronger but their main job will always be "fodder disposal" added to their "versatility" which can be used in some specific situations. They will become strong but the ranking within the strawhats didn't change after timeskip & won't ever change ...






i rate usopp high because his goal is to be the king of snipers. also i rate yassop high because he is the sniper in one of the yonkou crews. oda said that usopp would always be the weakest PHYSICALLY, NOT THE WEAKEST FIGHTER. people under estimate usopp because he is a bit of a chicken most of the time.

and why do u say i underrate robin and brook, and comparing brook to vista and robin to hancock is underestimating. hancock is one of the strongest women in the one piece world and vista is a great swordsman.

if usopp is going to be the best sniper he will be just as strong as them.

this is how i look at it, the strawhats are the justice league and usopp is batman. he is the weakest physically but he is still a very effect fighter.

also no one on the crew can do what usopp does. usopp is a top flight sniper and his ingenuity is the best among the crew as well.

the way i look at it is, its hard not to compare the strawhats and red hairs. i guarantee that yassopp is not the 4th strongest member in the crew, but he is one of the top 4 members because he has other qualities besides just his sniper ability.

lets not forget, for usopp to be the best he has be better the the kuja chicks and all of them use haki on their arrows, so for sopp to be better than them, he has to use it as well. also if he cant hit a logia user, how can he be the best sniper.

also for him to be the best his sniper ability has to super human, like hitting target no one else can hit or hitting targets no one else can see. the color of arnament would help with that. thats why i say he will develop 2 types.

mark my words usopp will be the 4th best member of the crew......its just set up that way.

Realtwisted
April 09, 2011, 04:34 AM
I think both Brooke and Chopper are heavily underestimated and it's really not that strange due to the fact that their awesome fighting moments are overshadowed by their weakness in their funny moments. Just recently, Zoro was portrayed as the cool and strong hero while Brooke stood for the comedy.

Hopefully we'll see more of both Chopper and Brooke!

All the members apart from the Mounster Trio are being understimate. Everyone is so strong now, is like God.

Ninja_Pirate
April 09, 2011, 04:47 AM
i rate usopp high because his goal is to be the king of snipers. also i rate yassop high because he is the sniper in one of the yonkou crews. oda said that usopp would always be the weakest PHYSICALLY, NOT THE WEAKEST FIGHTER. people under estimate usopp because he is a bit of a chicken most of the time.

and why do u say i underrate robin and brook, and comparing brook to vista and robin to hancock is underestimating. hancock is one of the strongest women in the one piece world and vista is a great swordsman.

if usopp is going to be the best sniper he will be just as strong as them.

this is how i look at it, the strawhats are the justice league and usopp is batman. he is the weakest physically but he is still a very effect fighter.

also no one on the crew can do what usopp does. usopp is a top flight sniper and his ingenuity is the best among the crew as well.

the way i look at it is, its hard not to compare the strawhats and red hairs. i guarantee that yassopp is not the 4th strongest member in the crew, but he is one of the top 4 members because he has other qualities besides just his sniper ability.

lets not forget, for usopp to be the best he has be better the the kuja chicks and all of them use haki on their arrows, so for sopp to be better than them, he has to use it as well. also if he cant hit a logia user, how can he be the best sniper.

also for him to be the best his sniper ability has to super human, like hitting target no one else can hit or hitting targets no one else can see. the color of arnament would help with that. thats why i say he will develop 2 types.

mark my words usopp will be the 4th best member of the crew......its just set up that way.

i agree that usopp will be strong when it comes to his sniper skills.... and his dream is to be brave warrior of the sea not sniper king.... he already consider himself d sniper king......
as d storyline goes everyone will achieve their dream at d end of d series... moreover snipers/long range fighters r generally weak... mentioned in naruto... take eg of counter strike even.. snipers r always easy to kill once discovered but most dangerous... oda will not deviate from such basics...
Thus usopp will never b a strong member of sh but will b d most important member....and thts hw its gonna b... either u

like it or not ... doesnt matter

also yasopp seems to have diff role.... he seems to b a gun man to me rather than sniper and thus a long to short range fighter

xeteboi
April 09, 2011, 06:51 AM
Actually the fight in the anime is quite different from what was actually in the manga, so it's not right to compare them. The actual truth is what was shown in the manga. Also Sakazuki actually inflicted more damage to WB and it was way more serious. WB eventually would have died from such injuries.
Of course if WB was younger and wasn't sick he would have defeated an Admiral or maybe even two, but as we saw him in the manga he couldn't defeat even one.


I have also red the manga but the real basis about this is the anime right? Coz it is the finalized one.. Ok ok.. dont you even think that Rayleigh is as strong as an admiral even though with his old state and he is the vice-captain of the Pirate King. Um so you mean Zorro can not achieve what Rayleigh had, actually we are just conceptualizing about this coz only Oda knows but logically,IMO If Luffy can surpass Roger, then Zorro should surpass Rayleigh.

Plus additional points for main characters actually.They were defeating every single opponents that we never could imagine that they can..

Jorge D. Dragon
April 12, 2011, 11:09 AM
xeteboi
I believe that Zoro can surpass Rayleigh, but I don't think that even in his prime he could defeat an Admiral like Kizaru.

On the topic...
I think people overrate Usopp a bit and I also believe that people highly underrate Robin. Her DF's power is one of the best in actual combat. Actually I'd say that in SH crew she 1005 can't defeat only Luffy and Franky for the logical reasons.:) But she has pretty decent chance against the majority of the crew. She can literary one-shot Brook, Nami, Usopp and Chopper (when he is in his normal child form). She can also fight pretty good against Sanji and Zoro, cause her power is very sutable for a assasinations and surprise attacks. No one can predict (if you don't have Haki) that someone will try to break your neck and if they wouldn't fight in a fair fight Robin has a decent chance to one-shot Sanji and Azoro. If we go by fair fight, I'd still say that she has decent chance to not loose, cause she can literary make infinite hands on their bodies to break their legs, hands, joints, so she won't be an easy fighter, even though she isn't very strong person, but she also can make them loose their balance and that is pretty important in the fight. Also it's important when you are fighting on the ship as she can just trow a person in the water using her DF ability. Her power won't work on Logias and on opponents with specific body like Franky's (it's too hard to break) and Luffry's (it just can't break).:)

chess4
April 12, 2011, 11:20 AM
xeteboi
I believe that Zoro can surpass Rayleigh, but I don't think that even in his prime he could defeat an Admiral like Kizaru.

On the topic...
I think people overrate Usopp a bit and I also believe that people highly underrate Robin. Her DF's power is one of the best in actual combat. Actually I'd say that in SH crew she 1005 can't defeat only Luffy and Franky for the logical reasons.:) But she has pretty decent chance against the majority of the crew. She can literary one-shot Brook, Nami, Usopp and Chopper (when he is in his normal child form). She can also fight pretty good against Sanji and Zoro, cause her power is very sutable for a assasinations and surprise attacks. No one can predict (if you don't have Haki) that someone will try to break your neck and if they wouldn't fight in a fair fight Robin has a decent chance to one-shot Sanji and Azoro. If we go by fair fight, I'd still say that she has decent chance to not loose, cause she can literary make infinite hands on their bodies to break their legs, hands, joints, so she won't be an easy fighter, even though she isn't very strong person, but she also can make them loose their balance and that is pretty important in the fight. Also it's important when you are fighting on the ship as she can just trow a person in the water using her DF ability. Her power won't work on Logias and on opponents with specific body like Franky's (it's too hard to break) and Luffry's (it just can't break).:)

rayleigh is an old man, out of shape, and by his own admition had not held a sword in years and he held serve against kizaru. rayleigh in his prime would eat kizaru's lunch. lets not forget he was the right hand of the strongest man in the world. there relationship is like luffys and zoro's. luffy is the strongest and zoro is a very close 2nd.


usopp's problem has never been his ability, it has been his lack of confidence in himself. usopp said himself that he graduated from the weak trio. oda would not write that if it wasnt going to come to past. i have always felt that robin was the 4th strongest member and her powers were down played a bit.

usopp goal is to become a brave warrior and the TRUE sniper king. if he achieves that, then he will be one of the strongest people in the one piece world.


the power structure in the crew as far as strength goes in this order luffy, zoro, sanji, robin, then everyone else. i think usopp will eventually take over that 4th spot

Jorge D. Dragon
April 12, 2011, 11:46 AM
chess4
I agree that Rayleigh is out of shape, but not that much. He managed to go from Sabaondy to Kuja Island swimming! So he wasn't that much weakened from his best shape. Also we don't know if the Admirals in his age had such DF as Kizaru, Ao Kiji or Akainu have. They are practically ultimate fighters. Even the person with just a DF of Logia type might be strong like Enel, but they also have strong Haki and pretty great level of combat abilities and might even know Rokushiki, so they surely wouldn't be eaten by Rayleigh even in his prime. I'd even doubt that it would be easy for Roger or WB in one on one. They would have won, but of course they won't have an easy fight.

Again about Luffy and Zoro. Zoro is second in command. He is strong, but no way he is as strong as Luffy or close to Luffy. Zoro is one of my favourite characters not only in One Piece, but in general, but of course he isn't as close to Luffy as people try to imply. I'd say he is practically twice weaker than Luffy. At least in terms of Doriki (physical damage that can be inflicted), he doesn't have confirmed Haki (also Luffy mastered Haki to a quite high degree as was staited by Rayleigh). Of course Zoro was taking second strongest opponent in every Arc, but Luffy's opponents were way stronger than Zoro's and that's obvious and can't be argued.

Actually I don't agree that Usopp's problem was lack of confidence. He was obviously the weakest exept for Nami.:) And even now he might be graduated from the weak trio, but he still would be the third from the last.:) Everyone got stronger, so he won't become stronger than Franky or Robin, cause they were way stronger than Usopp and now they became even stronger (we saw Robin's DF power underwater, so on the land she would be even stronger).
I'd say that for now it's:
1. Luffy
(big gap)
2. Zoro.
3. Sanji The gap between Zoro and Sanji isn't big)
(big gap)
4. Franky.
5. Robin.
6. Brook.
gap (not big, but still)
7. Chopper and Usopp (I can't decide, cause we didn't see much from both of them after timeskip)
8. Nami.

Ninja_Pirate
April 12, 2011, 11:48 AM
rayleigh is an old man, out of shape, and by his own admition had not held a sword in years and he held serve against kizaru. rayleigh in his prime would eat kizaru's lunch. lets not forget he was the right hand of the strongest man in the world. there relationship is like luffys and zoro's. luffy is the strongest and zoro is a very close 2nd.




Rayleigh in his prime would have beaten the crap out of kizaru since that time kizaru wasnt strong.. moreover i dont know if it matters that he has held a sword for years or not.. atleast in one piece until and unless ur body is fit... if that wud have been the case.. no strong pirate can live in peace and have to keep on fighting everyday to b in touch.. though i agree zoro can hold kizaru.. but beat him... its far from reality i must say.. major reason would be DF gape between the two..



usopp's problem has never been his ability, it has been his lack of confidence in himself. usopp said himself that he graduated from the weak trio. oda would not write that if it wasnt going to come to past. i have always felt that robin was the 4th strongest member and her powers were down played a bit.

usopp goal is to become a brave warrior and the TRUE sniper king. if he achieves that, then he will be one of the strongest people in the one piece world.


the power structure in the crew as far as strength goes in this order luffy, zoro, sanji, robin, then everyone else. i think usopp will eventually take over that 4th spot

Usopp said he has graduated weak trio without knowing that the other two graduated with him :p .... so the crew s hierarchy maintained.. and oda always make usopp brag about himself.. lol

How could anyone know at this point of time that usopp does not consider himself true sniper king currently... and again... even if he masters bravery and sniping.. he will not be one of strongest.. he will b a prodigy but not "STRONGEST"

pyogenes
April 12, 2011, 01:04 PM
I'm convinced that Nami not only will be a skilled haki user, but she has been since the beginning.

I bet her ability to predict weather and currents is due to a strong natural affinity towards COO haki. Instead of sensing people and predicting their actions she senses the environment.

Note: I'm NOT saying that she will be skilled at using haki for combat

Jorge D. Dragon
April 12, 2011, 01:09 PM
pyogenes
Actually I won't argue at your theory, but it's not far-fetched to say that it's not based on Haki, but she is just a skilled navigator.:) In a real life navigators are so skilled that they can say about the changing of weather just by feeling changing of wind or humidity inthe air.:)

chess4
April 12, 2011, 01:33 PM
chess4
I agree that Rayleigh is out of shape, but not that much. He managed to go from Sabaondy to Kuja Island swimming! So he wasn't that much weakened from his best shape. Also we don't know if the Admirals in his age had such DF as Kizaru, Ao Kiji or Akainu have. They are practically ultimate fighters. Even the person with just a DF of Logia type might be strong like Enel, but they also have strong Haki and pretty great level of combat abilities and might even know Rokushiki, so they surely wouldn't be eaten by Rayleigh even in his prime. I'd even doubt that it would be easy for Roger or WB in one on one. They would have won, but of course they won't have an easy fight.

Again about Luffy and Zoro. Zoro is second in command. He is strong, but no way he is as strong as Luffy or close to Luffy. Zoro is one of my favourite characters not only in One Piece, but in general, but of course he isn't as close to Luffy as people try to imply. I'd say he is practically twice weaker than Luffy. At least in terms of Doriki (physical damage that can be inflicted), he doesn't have confirmed Haki (also Luffy mastered Haki to a quite high degree as was staited by Rayleigh). Of course Zoro was taking second strongest opponent in every Arc, but Luffy's opponents were way stronger than Zoro's and that's obvious and can't be argued.

Actually I don't agree that Usopp's problem was lack of confidence. He was obviously the weakest exept for Nami.:) And even now he might be graduated from the weak trio, but he still would be the third from the last.:) Everyone got stronger, so he won't become stronger than Franky or Robin, cause they were way stronger than Usopp and now they became even stronger (we saw Robin's DF power underwater, so on the land she would be even stronger).
I'd say that for now it's:
1. Luffy
(big gap)
2. Zoro.
3. Sanji The gap between Zoro and Sanji isn't big)
(big gap)
4. Franky.
5. Robin.
6. Brook.
gap (not big, but still)
7. Chopper and Usopp (I can't decide, cause we didn't see much from both of them after timeskip)
8. Nami.

im saying if raylieh in his prime fought one of the admirals in there current state he would destroy them. shanks is basically a young rayleigh. rayleigh knows all 3 haki's and can use them all well.

i dont understand why people think there is a big gap between luffy and zoro. zoro cant beat luffy, but he would not just roll over/ also i think the power ranking is pointless becaus the strawhats true power is there team work.

for example lets use ennies lobby. no one could beat lucci except for luffy and no one could have shot those marines from the tower of justice except for usopp. zoro and sanji would kill luffy in water becaus eluffy has a DF.

like i think that chopper has the best defense of anyone on the crew. each strawhat does what the other cant.
[hr]

Rayleigh in his prime would have beaten the crap out of kizaru since that time kizaru wasnt strong.. moreover i dont know if it matters that he has held a sword for years or not.. atleast in one piece until and unless ur body is fit... if that wud have been the case.. no strong pirate can live in peace and have to keep on fighting everyday to b in touch.. though i agree zoro can hold kizaru.. but beat him... its far from reality i must say.. major reason would be DF gape between the two..



Usopp said he has graduated weak trio without knowing that the other two graduated with him :p .... so the crew s hierarchy maintained.. and oda always make usopp brag about himself.. lolHow could anyone know at this point of time that usopp does not consider himself true sniper king currently... and again... even if he masters bravery and sniping.. he will not be one of strongest.. he will b a prodigy but not "STRONGEST"


why would oda put that in the chapter about usopp graduating from the weak trio if it wasnt true?

also usopp does not consider himself the real sniper king.

http://www.mangareader.net/103-56760-18/one-piece/chapter-596.html

usopp knows he has a long way to go, but so does everyone else.

help me understand the last bit about the prodigy statement. if usopp is the king of sniping he will be able to use 2 colors(arnament and observation)

so if he is the undisputed king of sniping....that doesnt make him one of the strongest in one piece?
[hr]

I'm convinced that Nami not only will be a skilled haki user, but she has been since the beginning.

I bet her ability to predict weather and currents is due to a strong natural affinity towards COO haki. Instead of sensing people and predicting their actions she senses the environment.

Note: I'm NOT saying that she will be skilled at using haki for combat

i personally think that only luffy, zoro, sanji, and usopp will learn haki to a degree where they can use it in battle.

luffy, zoro, and sanji are obvious but i think usopp has to be able to use haki because im sure there are sniper out there that can imbed haki into bullets or projectiles. everyone on amazon lilly can use imbue haki into their arrows, so usopp has to be at least better than them.

Jorge D. Dragon
April 12, 2011, 01:42 PM
chess4
I won't argue about Rayleigh, cause at least for now we don't know the actual extent of his power in his prime, so we can't say something for sure.:) So I won't insist that I'm right.:)

Of course everyone in Mugivaras has their own purpose, but we are talking about their actual power and fighting capacities. About Sanji beating Luffy in the water... Nami can also beat an Admiral in the water.:)
In an actual fight on the land in one on one without preparations Luffy is deffinetly the strongest and I'd even say considerably strongest than anyone else in his crew. Zoro is rather far from him.
About defence... Seriously?:) Luffy has the best defence not only because of his super tough body, but also because he has CoA Haki.:) It can even defend from Logia, so of course his defense is the best in the crew.:)

Dice
April 12, 2011, 02:58 PM
luffy, zoro, and sanji are obvious but i think usopp has to be able to use haki because im sure there are sniper out there that can imbed haki into bullets or projectiles. everyone on amazon lilly can use imbue haki into their arrows, so usopp has to be at least better than them.

I'm not really sure if he will learn haki for sure but if he learns it than more then the four you mentionend will learn it to some degree.
About your argument with the people from amazon lilly: Does he really need haki to be better than them? A rocket launcher in the hand of an idiot might be less dangerous for you than a pistol in the hand of someone who knows what he is doing (just an exaggerated example, I hope you get what I mean).
I for myself think that Ussop might not learn haki just because he is the one who resembles a normal human the most. Furthermore he has a fighting style that is all about inventions and creativity. Additionally every victory he achieves against an opponent using haki will be way more deserved.
Ussop will always be the underdog in his fights. Having no haki will guarantee that in the new world and put him in a big disadvantage so he has to use his mind.



Mhhh...thinking about it. It's seems that Ussop is the Batman of One Piece. Just a normal human with gadgets but no super power.

zelllogan
April 12, 2011, 03:55 PM
i dont understand why people think there is a big gap between luffy and zoro. zoro cant beat luffy
CP9's Doriki Levels:
- Rob Lucci: 4000 vs Luffy
- Kaku: 2200 vs Zoro
- Jabura: 2180 vs Sanji
- Blueno: 820 & others below


If that's not a way for oda to say: "Sanji & Zoro are really close and Luffy is well above" ...

And the only argurment found by people in complete denial: "oh but Luffy was dead tired ... Zoro & Sanji still had enough strength to fight"

Please, give me a break. Luffy basically singlehandly defeated half of Enies Lobby + Blueno + had to use third gear to destroy that heavy door ... before defeating someone who had 2x the douriki level of the others & a better devil fruit. And this is to add to the fact that Kaku spent half his fight trying his devil fruit & the fact that Jyabura is a complete dumbass

And people still are putting Zoro at the same level :D. Amazing.


why would oda put that in the chapter about usopp graduating from the weak trio if it wasnt true
Lol, that's hilarious. Usopp is telling this without even knowing what the others are now able to do and Usopp literraly mean "to lie" ... And usopp is known to brag uselessly ...


so if he is the undisputed king of sniping....that doesnt make him one of the strongest in one piece?
No. Plus, his fighting style is not evolving towards a pure sniper ... & becoming the king of sniping is not his dream ...His dream is to become a brave warrior, nothing more ...

Uriel
April 12, 2011, 04:26 PM
Just because Zoro is able to handle the same damage than Luffy, I would put him at the same level. Well, not the same, but I wouldn't make such a big gap. The Douriki rates were made before Kaku got his DF, so it's very likely it got stronger in the Jiraffe Form.

For me, the rank should be:
Physically
1. Luffy
(Gap)
2. Zoro.
3. Sanji
4. Chopper's Monster Point
(Gap)
5. Franky
6. Brook
7. Chopper
8. Robin
9. Usopp
10. Nami

In Battle Proficiency.
1. Luffy
2. Usopp
3. Robin
4. Zoro
5. Nami
6. Sanji
7. Franky
8. Brook
9. Chopper
10. Chopper's Monster Point

chess4
April 12, 2011, 04:56 PM
CP9's Doriki Levels:
- Rob Lucci: 4000 vs Luffy
- Kaku: 2200 vs Zoro
- Jabura: 2180 vs Sanji
- Blueno: 820 & others below


If that's not a way for oda to say: "Sanji & Zoro are really close and Luffy is well above" ...

And the only argurment found by people in complete denial: "oh but Luffy was dead tired ... Zoro & Sanji still had enough strength to fight"

Please, give me a break. Luffy basically singlehandly defeated half of Enies Lobby + Blueno + had to use third gear to destroy that heavy door ... before defeating someone who had 2x the douriki level of the others & a better devil fruit. And this is to add to the fact that Kaku spent half his fight trying his devil fruit & the fact that Jyabura is a complete dumbass

And people still are putting Zoro at the same level :D. Amazing.


Lol, that's hilarious. Usopp is telling this without even knowing what the others are now able to do and Usopp literraly mean "to lie" ... And usopp is known to brag uselessly ...


No. Plus, his fighting style is not evolving towards a pure sniper ... & becoming the king of sniping is not his dream ...His dream is to become a brave warrior, nothing more ...


those numbers are irrelevent because that was 2 years ago.

regardless of what you say usopp is a sniper IT HAS BEEN STATED IN THE MANGA. yes his dream is to be a brave warrior, but he knows for luffy to be the pirate king he has to be the sniper king. it may not be his dream but they go hand and hand.

what you are saying makes no sense. its like saying when zoro becomes the strongest swordsman in the world he will not be one of the strongest people in the one piece world. if usopp is the sniper king, he will be one of the best in the world

Jorge D. Dragon
April 12, 2011, 11:13 PM
chess4
How come numbers are irrelevant?:)
Basically we can see that even in Ennies Lobby Arc Luffy was twice as strong as Zoro and in every future arc Luffy got only bigger difference. He defeated another Shichibukai, entered Impel Down and then got out from it and then got to the War. In that moment Zoro was lying in bandages on Mihawk's Island. He got to train only after the War.
Even if we assume that everyone got about the same level of power-up (even though I think that Luffy got the biggest progresion, cause he not only got physically stronger and better with his DF, but he was confirmed to get quite proficient with all types of Haki) Luffy is still way above Zoro and hence way above everyone in the crew. And that was obvious during the whole manga.

Ninja_Pirate
April 12, 2011, 11:43 PM
why would oda put that in the chapter about usopp graduating from the weak trio if it wasnt true?

also usopp does not consider himself the real sniper king.

http://www.mangareader.net/103-56760-18/one-piece/chapter-596.html

usopp knows he has a long way to go, but so does everyone else.

help me understand the last bit about the prodigy statement. if usopp is the king of sniping he will be able to use 2 colors(arnament and observation)

so if he is the undisputed king of sniping....that doesnt make him one of the strongest in one piece?
<hr noshade size="1">


i personally think that only luffy, zoro, sanji, and usopp will learn haki to a degree where they can use it in battle.

luffy, zoro, and sanji are obvious but i think usopp has to be able to use haki because im sure there are sniper out there that can imbed haki into bullets or projectiles. everyone on amazon lilly can use imbue haki into their arrows, so usopp has to be at least better than them.

http://www.mangareader.net/103-56101-6/one-piece/chapter-594.html .. it is clearly stated that haki is developed by years of training.. which coby went through.. luffy went through hard times enough... zoro went through... where does usopp coming in picture is something i could not understand (that 2 years he must have spent reducing his weight :p ).. however yes there have been cases seen where it could be inbuilt but that must have been shown up till now... someone will not get haki just because he needs it .. :p

By prodigy i meant in sniping.. he got a natural talent and time will come when he will carry out unbelievable tasks .. take out out targets cant be seen... with his sniping skills...

for what he said about being sniper king.. it was two years back.. how do anyone know that he doesnt consider himself sniper king already.. ???

Also just having haki does not ensure to be the strongest or even dangerously strong.. otherwise kuja would have been ruling the world by now..

and just like like being undisputed navigator will not result in nami being strongest.. undisputed sniper doesnt mean usopp being in the strongest..

kkck
April 13, 2011, 12:27 AM
I really don't think the whole doukiri is that black and white. Zoro and sanji fought evenly with their matches with no visible upgrades to say the least. Once they used their upgrades, kyutoui and diable jambe, they basically one shot kaku and jyabura and went off to keep fighting a number of other enemies. Basically, you could say there was a somewhat significant gap between sanji and zoro and their respective enemies. In turn, luffy fought a extremely prolonged fight and even using his new techniques he got nowhere nearly as much of an advantage as either of them did over their enemies. Luffy is without a doubt the strongest but I really don't think zoro and sanji lag significantly behind, specially zoro.

Jorge D. Dragon
April 13, 2011, 12:42 AM
You forget that Kaku was trying his DF all the fight and actually Zoro had quite troubles with Kaku, especially in trying to defend from his hits and especially in landing. And of course he won when he used his strongest move.:) It's like when you are fighting someone with bare fists for 30 minutes and then you get a two-handed sword and slice him in half in a second and then say that it was an easy fight.:)
Also you keep forgetting that not only Luffy got the strongest opponent, he was also having a different fight. He was rather tired before fighting Lucci. He took more than a half of soldiers of Ennies Lobby by himsel (more than 5000 soldiers of 10000), then he defeated Bruno (the 4th strongest CP9 member), used his Gear 3 to open the door and then he was not only fighting Lucci at first, but he was giving Franky an opening to run for Robin, so he was pretty much tired before the fight with Lucci. I'd say that his fight would be way easier if he would fight Lucci in normal conditions.

Ninja_Pirate
April 13, 2011, 01:05 AM
I really don't think the whole doukiri is that black and white. Zoro and sanji fought evenly with their matches with no visible upgrades to say the least. Once they used their upgrades, kyutoui and diable jambe, they basically one shot kaku and jyabura and went off to keep fighting a number of other enemies. Basically, you could say there was a somewhat significant gap between sanji and zoro and their respective enemies. In turn, luffy fought a extremely prolonged fight and even using his new techniques he got nowhere nearly as much of an advantage as either of them did over their enemies. Luffy is without a doubt the strongest but I really don't think zoro and sanji lag significantly behind, specially zoro.

Same goes for luffy.. remember he also used his new technique only once... "JET GATLING" followed by other new techniques ..same goes for zoro/// :)

also luffy did not have an "extremely" prolonged fight as compared to zoro.. also its not just the doukiri.. lucci has the strongest fruit which he has been using from years.. .. lucci wasted lot of time,, distroying the underground tunnel and blah blah.. and remeber one of his technique which hurts the most to luffy.. i forgot the name of the technique// :darn .. but it was something he only can use... has been used on luffy three consecutive time

kkck
April 13, 2011, 02:14 AM
I don't think lucci had in any way the strongest fruit. Chopper said carnivorous zoans tend to be more aggressive than others however that does not mean it is the strongest. Heck, if anything I would think kaku's fruit was the stronger one. Lucci did a few things through the use of his rokushiki in conjunction of the fruit however the giraffe variations kaku used were 100% the fruit.

Also, I was referring to the general use of gear second and gear third in comparison to zoro's and sanji's use of their techniques. It took one use of each to finish kaku and jyabura. In turn consistent use of gear second and third did not finish off lucci.

Ninja_Pirate
April 13, 2011, 04:12 AM
I don't think lucci had in any way the strongest fruit. Chopper said carnivorous zoans tend to be more aggressive than others however that does not mean it is the strongest. Heck, if anything I would think kaku's fruit was the stronger one. Lucci did a few things through the use of his rokushiki in conjunction of the fruit however the giraffe variations kaku used were 100% the fruit.

I think you referring chopper here - http://www.mangareader.net/103-2456-6/one-piece/chapter-349.html .... however on the same page lucci explained that zoan's special ability is to strengthen themselves physically by training... so i dont see kaku's fruit stronger by that time since he has just obtained that untrained body...




Also, I was referring to the general use of gear second and gear third in comparison to zoro's and sanji's use of their techniques. It took one use of each to finish kaku and jyabura. In turn consistent use of gear second and third did not finish off lucci.

When we say technique.. gear second is a package as technique.. as luffy said all his techniques will evolve.. so how can it actually compared with one time technique...
In a fight the opponents were weakened to the state that the final attack will blow them off... zoro has used many new techniques in the battle.. however just because his opponent was blown off in an attack u r considering it the final ultimate technique... so i also can say Jet gattling to be the ultimate technique :)

Jorge D. Dragon
April 13, 2011, 08:54 AM
kkck
Actually Luffy's Jet Gatling also finished the job and you should take in account that before the fight against Lucci Luffy was at about 70% at best,cause he was not only continiously fighting in Ennies Lobby taking more than a half of its man power and the 4th strongest Rokushiki user before Lucci, but he also was fighting non-stop sinse the begining of Water 7 Arc. On the other hand Sanji was obviously in better shape, cause his only serious fight was with Jabura and he didn't take as much opponents in the train and in Ennies Lobby as Luffy.
Also Luffy and Zoro were beatten quite good in Water 7 by CP9.

kkck
April 13, 2011, 02:08 PM
I alread70y said I was talking about the general usage of gear 2 and 3....

ALso, there is no way luffy was at 70%. He was by all intents and purposes at 100% IMO. For one thing, luffy has this absurd trait of fast digestion and whatnot and he actually ate meat after fighting blueno. I doubt that would make much of a difference. Gear 3 had side effects but I really doubt it would deplete him that much after the initial shrinking. And luffy also had the crap beat out of him in water seven. At the very least zoro and sanji did not survive just because a devil fruit...

Rosebullet Teacher
April 14, 2011, 05:05 AM
I like how the cp9 arc is the place to start with Straw Hat power, this explains all the nonlove Brook gets he needs an emotional battle so give him time to get one! & Ryuuma doesn't count cos Ryuuma was Brook plus he's killed a dragon! Wait till Brook meets a guy who hates panties hell breaks loose!

Luffy beasts Zoro, but why isn't anybody bringing gomu gomu no mi into this? Rubber reduces impact so its only natural Luffy can go much longer & reach higher limits. Yes Zoro took that pain but how long was he bedridden? Even on Saboady it was still hitting, whereas Luffy gets meated up & he's a threat again.

I like Robins giant limbs she can probably deflect cannonballs, or launch crew members at giants. Wish she was physically stronger then we'd have 100+ hit combos!

FuS

Jorge D. Dragon
April 14, 2011, 06:36 AM
kkck
Of course he wasn't at his 100%.:) It's pretty obvious. No one will be at his best after bitting more than 5000 soldiers who was said to have pretty decent level. Then he beated Brueno who was the 4th strongest Rolushiki user in CP9 and after it he even used Gear 3. He obviously wasn't anywhere near his 100% of power before the fight against Lucci, while Lucci was quite at his full power.

kkck
April 14, 2011, 01:23 PM
Luffy fought 500 average soldiers, where did you get that they were decent level? Not a single one of them had a chance of actually hurting luffy considering luffy is immune to bullets as a whole and even his simplest attacks would just mow through them. I doubt such a thing is something sanji, zoro or even franky would have trouble with. Even then, the fight against blueno did not seem to take a significant tool on luffy to begin with. Then there is still the fact that luffy had meat to replenish his stamina after the fight. Oda set that one up so that luffy could be at 100% when he fights lucci. Also worth noting, in the manga blueno did not land a single hit on luffy. He just opened a door on his face which did not seem to cause any damage.

Jorge D. Dragon
April 15, 2011, 01:15 AM
It wasn't 500, but more than 5000. And yes they were rather decent soldiers to protect one of the 3 most important WG facilities. Also they shouldn't be top dogs, but if you take down as much as 5000 or more it doesn't actually matter the power level, cause you waste your power, endurance, stamina for sure.
Actually I don't believe that after taking out more than 5000 soldiers and then taking the 4th strongest Rokushiki user in CP9 and your conditions can be so simply replenished with meat.
About damage. Luffy might have not taken damage before the fight against Lucci, but he still wasted plenty of physical strength and stamina running, punching and dodging and also using gears, so of course it can't be just replenished with meat.

Ninja_Pirate
April 15, 2011, 01:49 AM
Since we are looking for units... i also just thought of unit of measuring strength :p.. here is what i think :)

1. Luffy - can take 6-7 pacifistas at a time
2. Zoro. - can take 3-4 pacifistas at a time
3. Sanji - can take 3 pacifistas at a time
4. Franky- can take 2 pacifistas at a time
5. Brook - can take 0.5 pacifista at a time (he will need help)
6. Chopper - can take 1 pacifista at a time (will almost get in same state as against kumadori in CP9)
7. Robin(can take 1.5 pacifista , considering the giant limbs she can make)
8. Usopp - (0.25 pacifista - (have not seen his dodging speed yet .. so my opinion may change later)
9. Nami - (0.5 pacifista :p)

zelllogan
April 15, 2011, 06:11 AM
Since we are looking for units... i also just thought of unit of measuring strength :p.. here is what i think :)

1. Luffy - can take 6-7 pacifistas at a time
2. Zoro. - can take 3-4 pacifistas at a time
3. Sanji - can take 3 pacifistas at a time
4. Franky- can take 2 pacifistas at a time
5. Brook - can take 0.5 pacifista at a time (he will need help)
6. Chopper - can take 1 pacifista at a time (will almost get in same state as against kumadori in CP9)
7. Robin(can take 1.5 pacifista , considering the giant limbs she can make)
8. Usopp - (0.25 pacifista - (have not seen his dodging speed yet .. so my opinion may change later)
9. Nami - (0.5 pacifista :p)
Again someone underestimating Brook ... it's getting annoying :D.

I highly suggest people to read again the beginning of Thriller Bark .... just to see how he cut the spider that wasn't afffected by Franky's nunjakus ...

Ninja_Pirate
April 15, 2011, 06:20 AM
Again someone underestimating Brook ... it's getting annoying :D.

I highly suggest people to read again the beginning of Thriller Bark .... just to see how he cut the spider that wasn't afffected by Franky's nunjakus ...

Its not someone ... its me... :):) ...

It really depends on the scale of measurement.. here as you can see .. as per the scale yes, definitely brook cant single handedly defeat a pacifista.. if i consider even that he might have improved on his music skills and can base his attacks on that.. pacifistas are cyborgs...

Also cutting a spider and pacifista is a different league all together.. even zoro who defeted that ryugga samurai with only two swords had a problem cutting the pacifista body (considering kuma and pacifista made of same material) before time skip... And also during SHs fight wid pacifista... everyone contributed pretty well... except for brook.. he was pretty useless :p

zelllogan
April 15, 2011, 06:53 AM
Its not someone ... its me... :):) ...

It really depends on the scale of measurement.. here as you can see .. as per the scale yes, definitely brook cant single handedly defeat a pacifista.. if i consider even that he might have improved on his music skills and can base his attacks on that.. pacifistas are cyborgs...

Also cutting a spider and pacifista is a different league all together.. even zoro who defeted that ryugga samurai with only two swords had a problem cutting the pacifista body (considering kuma and pacifista made of same material) before time skip... And also during SHs fight wid pacifista... everyone contributed pretty well... except for brook.. he was pretty useless :p

My point is, at thriller bark, Brook saved both franky & robin ... So putting Franky at 2 pacifistas & brook at 0.5 is weird to say the least.

About fights again pacifista, apart from the monster trio, ALL were useless & merely won seconds (which Brooke also did, you joust don't remember)

Ninja_Pirate
April 15, 2011, 08:52 AM
My point is, at thriller bark, Brook saved both franky & robin ... So putting Franky at 2 pacifistas & brook at 0.5 is weird to say the least.

About fights again pacifista, apart from the monster trio, ALL were useless & merely won seconds (which Brooke also did, you joust don't remember)
ya... i got a pretty bad memory actually... :eyeroll

let me refresh it...

ch 510- sh pirates vs combat weapon...

chopper...woah, thts effective - http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-11/one-piece/chapter-510.htm
franky- deflected d beam..phew...http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-12/one-piece/chapter-510.html
lol... brook...crap... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-13/one-piece/chapter-510.html
usopp....imp breakthrough.... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-14/one-piece/chapter-510.html
robin....now that was effective... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-15/one-piece/chapter-510.html
nami.... there goes d wiring... shot circuit :o http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-16/one-piece/chapter-510.html


dnt wanna mention monster trio... bcoz we remember that ... don't we ;)

just realized... actually brook does not deserve even 0.5 pacista considering the above mentioned scenario... i gave him tht considering 2 yr skip.... oops :tem

Uriel
April 15, 2011, 10:16 AM
You'll think I'm mad or something, but I seriously think that at this point (Now, this arc, FI) everyone is able to defeat at least 1 Pacifista in their own if not more.

And I think Luffy can beat more than 6. Lot more than 6.

kkck
April 15, 2011, 02:14 PM
Well, luffy basically blits and overpowered a pacifista with a little haki and a partial gear two, somehow I think a horde of pacifista could not actually take him right now. Can you imagine what his jet gattling would do to a squadron of them? How about his gear 3 lol? Sanji and zoro seem to be on the same league..... Then again, it was already implied the pacifista have been upgraded a great deal in the last two years so perhaps it won't be so simple next time.

I also think brook is being grossly underestimated. Whatever upgrade he had over the last 2 years has been so far more conspicuous than the rest of the strawhats but I do doubt he did not get anything. He already has shown great speed and swordsmanship overall (his physical capacities are not as good obviously but in turn his actual technique is more than a match to zoro's as we saw when ryuma fought). His music has power too which is no small deal, probably that is behind his fame over the last two years. Overall brook is IMO the fifth strongest strawhat right after franky.

zelllogan
April 15, 2011, 02:27 PM
ya... i got a pretty bad memory actually... :eyeroll

let me refresh it...

ch 510- sh pirates vs combat weapon...

chopper...woah, thts effective - http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-11/one-piece/chapter-510.htm
franky- deflected d beam..phew...http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-12/one-piece/chapter-510.html
lol... brook...crap... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-13/one-piece/chapter-510.html
usopp....imp breakthrough.... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-14/one-piece/chapter-510.html
robin....now that was effective... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-15/one-piece/chapter-510.html
nami.... there goes d wiring... shot circuit :o http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-16/one-piece/chapter-510.html


dnt wanna mention monster trio... bcoz we remember that ... don't we ;)

just realized... actually brook does not deserve even 0.5 pacista considering the above mentioned scenario... i gave him tht considering 2 yr skip.... oops :tem
Yeah, I agree. Brook is the weakest strawhat by far.

chess4
April 23, 2011, 03:09 PM
the reason i say that usopp will be the 4th in command on the ship is this. luffy, zoro, sanji, and usopp are the only ones shown to have gotten direct combat training under a master of their fighting style.

im sure the others practiced fighting as well, but im sure oda constructed it like this 4 a reason.

now because i say usopp will be 4th in command does not mean he is the 4th strongest hand to hand combat wise. frankie or chopper would slaughter usopp in a fight where he didnt have time to prepare but if usopp had a few moment to prepare like he did against luffy then i think he is the 4th strognest

Uriel
April 23, 2011, 04:15 PM
Beware, in command things are different. Nami and Zoro are the ones who follow Luffy in direct chain and it's not because their power. And because Zoro doesn't interfere that much and Luffy mostly lulz, Nami is the one who gives more orders and gets things done xD

Naruffy
April 27, 2011, 10:12 AM
ya... i got a pretty bad memory actually... :eyeroll

let me refresh it...

ch 510- sh pirates vs combat weapon...

chopper...woah, thts effective - http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-11/one-piece/chapter-510.htm
franky- deflected d beam..phew...http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-12/one-piece/chapter-510.html
lol... brook...crap... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-13/one-piece/chapter-510.html
usopp....imp breakthrough.... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-14/one-piece/chapter-510.html
robin....now that was effective... http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-15/one-piece/chapter-510.html
nami.... there goes d wiring... shot circuit :o http://www.mangareader.net/103-2617-16/one-piece/chapter-510.html


dnt wanna mention monster trio... bcoz we remember that ... don't we ;)

just realized... actually brook does not deserve even 0.5 pacista considering the above mentioned scenario... i gave him tht considering 2 yr skip.... oops :tem

Comparing how they fight against one type of enemy isn't an effective way of determining who's the strongest.

Ninja_Pirate
April 28, 2011, 12:54 AM
Comparing how they fight against one type of enemy isn't an effective way of determining who's the strongest.

I never said its an effective way.. i said its a way... :)

Strength can also be determined with experience.. considering that Brooke is the most experienced straw hat and he has lived in the time when Roger was just a rookie.. Brrok is smart as well.. he knew that since now he is just bones he cant work on his strength as bones never can be shaped and get six packs and all,,, in two year time skip he chose to develop his music... Best thing i like about SHs is they all know what they can do and work on that only... Usopp has got back to improving his shooting skills rather than poking his nose in maintenance of the ship as franky joined in...

hokageji
June 07, 2011, 11:48 PM
I am expecting Zoro to be close to Mihawk level, having said that, Zoro should be easily able to beat any fishmen with ease. But, I guess SH's will have to win over circumstances more than raw power to prove their growths in this arc, leaving pure battle arcs for the new world.

chess4
June 09, 2011, 07:01 AM
I am expecting Zoro to be close to Mihawk level, having said that, Zoro should be easily able to beat any fishmen with ease. But, I guess SH's will have to win over circumstances more than raw power to prove their growths in this arc, leaving pure battle arcs for the new world.

not even close..zoo still has a long way to go. yea he beat the fishman but mihawk is the best and he was in his league now then the that just dismisses the the new world completely

Zeltrax
June 09, 2011, 09:30 AM
Saying zoro being close to mihawk is like saying luffy finished sailing the new world
and is going to become the pirate king soon...which unfortunately he is not.

Kyo3ooo
June 09, 2011, 10:30 AM
What you say would be right if we were sure Zoro would reach his gaol at the same time as the others (Luffy ...)
For all we know, Zoro could've already beaten Mihawk (getting a 40mil raise in bounty and a scar) ... Zoro may also die in this arc and never reach his goal. Anything can happen.
Remember manga chapter 4 (or 5 Maybe), Luffy tells Zoro : Well, it would be embarassing for the Priate King's partner not achieve such a "small feat" ... Could be sacrasm, yes. But it could also hold a deep meaning : Being the world's strongest swordsman is just a step.
Anyways, I just hope people stop thinking "mechanically" : Luffy is still far from the end of the Grand Line --> he is far from reaching One Piece -> Far from his dream -> Zoro is therefore not at Mihawk's level.
If the whole Manga was like that, then it'd be bornig =/

hokageji
June 09, 2011, 11:51 AM
Zoro's dream is to be the worlds strongest swordsmen.

As we know it, Mihawk is the world's strongest, and training under him would have got him close.

But, Zoros feels its more important to make Luffy the pirate kind, the whole crew think of it as their gaol.

Zoro does have a long way to go, there are still lots of swordsmen he will have to beat. Vista, swordsmen at Wano and Shiriyuu, all these guys are close to Mihawk level.

Naruffy
June 09, 2011, 12:12 PM
It'd be kind of lame if Zoro could already beat Mihawk, which he can't. I he had that power, he'd of sliced Hodi in two. They still have the New World to explore, and we know that by the end of that he'll be strong enough to beat Mihawk.

Also, I'd be surprised if Luffy didn't sleep during Jimbei's history lesson. We all know Luffy as a man of action and he was bound to get bored just sitting there listening to jimbei's story.

Ninja_Pirate
June 09, 2011, 01:45 PM
Lol- this is how topics get invented when oda gives a break without anything to discuss - my few cents on zoro- It doesn't matter if he has surpassed mihawk or not since initially it might have been his dream but now his final dream has become to make luffy the pirate king.. two years back it was told in manga that mihawk is the strongest swordsman .. but we dont know if he still is and we will find that soner or later


ON TOPIC - :p .... Lot of chances that after hearing the announcement luffy will say- so i have to kick this guy's ass.. :p

matzik1212
June 09, 2011, 02:24 PM
mihawk is a swordsman that won't be surpassed many years in OP world IMO and i'm positive that the only one who will be able to surpass him in the end will be zoro and no one else , at least that would be the most fitting thing to happen :)
also zoro's strength can't be compared to mihawk's yet just like we can't compare luffy with rayleigh ....i mean even though they trained hard this 2y they can't possibly compare to their teachers who worked their entire lives to reach that lvl of power .... it would be absurd
anyway we can figure to a certain point every SH's lvl of power when we'll see them fight and that is the only thing i'm dying to see :D....hopefully next chapter the action starts and luffy will go to kick hodi's ass big time :D

KnivesTaichou
June 13, 2011, 03:53 PM
I aspect Luffy o be able to proficently use Haki. FOr Zoro to be able to cut things. For sanji to be able to kick really hard and run really fast. For Usopp to have better battle instinct be faster, Stronger and have new weapons.

cheddarpretzels
August 03, 2011, 06:20 PM
The island that Usopp was on ate everything. That gave me the idea that maybe...just maybe, devil fruits have also been eaten. If that's possible, maybe Usopp and Hercules'n went underground or into the stomach and gave the fruit to his new weaopn.... It's a pretty crazy theory but it could be awesome. :)

Kyodai Senkan Mora
August 04, 2011, 03:51 AM
Well, luffy basically blits and overpowered a pacifista with a little haki and a partial gear two, somehow I think a horde of pacifista could not actually take him right now. Can you imagine what his jet gattling would do to a squadron of them? How about his gear 3 lol? Sanji and zoro seem to be on the same league..... Then again, it was already implied the pacifista have been upgraded a great deal in the last two years so perhaps it won't be so simple next time.

I also think brook is being grossly underestimated. Whatever upgrade he had over the last 2 years has been so far more conspicuous than the rest of the strawhats but I do doubt he did not get anything. He already has shown great speed and swordsmanship overall (his physical capacities are not as good obviously but in turn his actual technique is more than a match to zoro's as we saw when ryuma fought). His music has power too which is no small deal, probably that is behind his fame over the last two years. Overall brook is IMO the fifth strongest strawhat right after franky.

are u seriously suggesting brooke and franky are stronger than robin? that brooke is stronger than chopper with his rumble?...Am sorry...I just don't wanna believe that

---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------



For all we know, Zoro could've already beaten Mihawk (getting a 40mil raise in bounty and a scar) .=/

I don't know about everything else u just said but am pretty sure beating Mihawk is not a 40 million event....crocodiles minion got him 60 mil after all

zelllogan
August 04, 2011, 03:51 AM
Brook did save Franky & Robin from that spider back in thriller bark. Franky did almost no damage using those use huge nunjakus ... Brook cut the spider in two with little to no effort. But there are also other examples where Franky did more damage than Brook but overall, those three are in the same league.

And I'm not yet tired enough to repeat this: Chopper/Usopp/Nami are the WEAK TRIO, it's a manga fact, accept it.
They are now extremely strong after the timeskip but at the new "strawhat level", they are still the weak trio.

Chopper , even in Monster Point, is not even close to Franky, Brook, Robin. Franky has no problems at all to deal with Chopper in Monster Point in Enies Lobby. Monster point is huge strength but no defense ...
There is a gap between each trio and it's a huge one.

Monster trio (named that way in the manga)
...
GAP
...
Unnamed trio
...
GAP
...
Weak trio (named that way in the manga).

As long as Oda is not changing his own terminology of Weak & Monster trio, the power levels among strawhats are clear.

Schabrak
August 04, 2011, 09:56 AM
Just saying, it doesn't make much sense to argue about capabilities, which were last seen two years ago and just two weeks/one chapterf before we see them go all out again. Ussop and Nami of the "Weak Trio" will never have the physical strength as the rest, but we will have to seen how much they have developed by fightin under different circumstances.

kkck
August 04, 2011, 10:06 AM
Robin has never even been strong to begin with. She has made good practical use of her fruit but her actual physical capacities are that of a normal human at least before the timeskip. In turn it is pretty obvious brook had superhuman capacities long before the timeskip. Robin defeating brook? That´s laughable IMO. Robin defeating franky? Thats absurd.... At least before the timeskip robin was never even a fighting member of the strawhats, her one fight took place at skypeia an since that she has been outside the battlefield simply because she is not a fighter. I agree in that she might have been stronger than chopper, nami or ussop but..... they were fodder to begin with. Even after the timeskip brook should be more of a fighter than robin.

zelllogan
August 04, 2011, 10:58 AM
Robin has never even been strong to begin with. She has made good practical use of her fruit but her actual physical capacities are that of a normal human at least before the timeskip. In turn it is pretty obvious brook had superhuman capacities long before the timeskip. Robin defeating brook? That´s laughable IMO. Robin defeating franky? Thats absurd.... At least before the timeskip robin was never even a fighting member of the strawhats, her one fight took place at skypeia an since that she has been outside the battlefield simply because she is not a fighter. I agree in that she might have been stronger than chopper, nami or ussop but..... they were fodder to begin with. Even after the timeskip brook should be more of a fighter than robin.

IMO, you're underestimating Robin a lot. I agree she is not the fighter type but her devil fruit alone is "hax" enough.
She doesn't need a strong physical body. In order to simulate physical strength, she only needs to grow more arms compacted together ...
Her devil fruit is just too much: flight, gigantic arm (formed by multiple normal arms), cloning, growing body parts on anything, limit/restrict movements & she's clever enough to use it well.

IMO, both Brook & Robin are underestimated ... while Franky is often overrated (and Usopp almost always) ... and I come back to my usual ranking ...

kkck
August 04, 2011, 11:08 AM
I guess it could be a bit like the crocodile situation who is a threat not because of his sheer physical capacities but rather because of his DF mastery but even then the limitations of having an actually weak body will eventually become notorius. Can´t say about part 2 but at least in part 1 she never displayed superhuman capacities. In this regard her strength, stamina and speed were not significantly above that of a normal person. Brook displayed insane speed and fantastic swordsmanship, franky is clearly superhuman and the monster trio are significantly above that apparently. A lone hit from one of them would be more than enough to one shot robin. Heck, they should be more than capable of blitzing her with speed alone. More importantly, damage done to her body parts is transfered to her read body. How easy would it be for this superhuman bastards to break her arm? Extremely to say the least, at their level a human bone should be no more complicated than a twig. Also, didn´t oda actually state franky was the fourth strongest strawhat?

Schabrak
August 04, 2011, 11:24 AM
kkck
Would you stop stating unprovable outcomes. We absolutely don't know how they would fight with their upgraded powers. If you take away Robin's powers, you should put away Frankys cyborg enhancements too, just as well as Brooks speed due to being a skeleton 'cause of his DF. How easy would it be for her to take them down now? Nobody but Oda knows. Remember how easily she handled Jinbe and Luffy or saved them from crashing into a rock when they fought Surume.

kkck
August 04, 2011, 12:41 PM
I wasn´t talking about part 2, I was talking about what we saw in part one for the most part. Heck, I actually wrote "Can´t say about part 2 but at least in part 1...". Also, I didn´t take away anyone´s powers, I merely said robin´s actual physical capacities are not significantly superior to that of a normal person. Robin creates several of her arms, meaning that each of them has the strength of her original ones. Her ability to merge arms into a bigger arm is a non issue with what I wrote. Also, she didn´t handle luffy or jinbe, she merely used her ability to get in between them and disappear before they actually clashed.

On another note, I do very much doubt oda had the slightest intention of changing the status quo in the crew.

zelllogan
August 04, 2011, 01:32 PM
On another note, I do very much doubt oda had the slightest intention of changing the status quo in the crew.

I agree. Ranking among strawhats will remain the same. Among the current members, there is a monster trio & a weak trio and that will not change. Of course, there might be additional characters in the future joining either the weak ones or the monster ones.

The ranking among current members won't change for several reasons:
- Oda won't take the risk to highlight a single member of the weak trio. All members of the strawhats are important and there is a real balance between members. Trying to break this balance is too risky.
- It wouldn't be coherent to see a member of the weak trio entering the league of the monster trio (or vice versa).
- Last chapter, we have the weak trio reunited in the sunny-go while others get ready to rumble ... For me, it's already enough to convince me that the weak trio is still the weak trio.

Now I will try to explain again the HUGE GAP between each trio.

The monster trio:
- Just compare the douriki level of their opponents in Enies Lobby & the douriki level of the others ... That alone should be enough to convince anyone that no one is even close to those three:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v40/c379/6.html

- The reaction from Franky & Brook when Zoro fought Ryuma. They immediatly understood what kind of monster Zoro is.
Brook & Franky begin to understand here:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v48/c467/2.html
Remark that Franky didn't even see Zoro's counter-attack ... (By the way, the underrated Brook did see the counter-attack)

- Still in Thriller Bark, mere copies of Sanji & Zoro had no trouble with Chopper & Robin:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v48/c468/2.html1

The weak trio:
- Chopper & Franky had similar opponents in terms of douriki ... and Chopper just couldn't do anything in front of Kumadori ... and out of despair he used "Monster Point" ... while Franky trashed Fukourou once he had his cola fuel tank back to normal.

- By the way, the way too overrated "Monster Point": This is what it takes to Franky to counter it:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v43/c412/17.html
As I said before, Monster Point is giving Chopper incredible strength but absolutely no defense against serious opponents. So, Monster Point is not an answer for Chopper.

- What have in common absolutely ALL 1vs1 opponents of Nami, Usopp & Chopper in the manga ? Utter stupidity and utter arrogance towards the opponent. That's the only way they can win against strong opponents. Chu, Gedatsu, ... and last but not least Kalifa ...

- I won't even bother to gather all moments in the manga where those three were just displayed as weak. There are so many examples ... A little one everyone forgot: in the Merry-go in Skypiea, Zoro, Robin & Nami decided to leave to explore while Chopper stayed with the ship. Zoro & Robin are playing Tarzan and then It's Nami's turn. Nami is scared to death & seen crying ... Just afterwards, Chopper realize he is alone on the ship, he is scared to death too. I remind this only because I was just watching the Skypiea arc some weeks ago.

- Based on my last example, I can also talk about an other weakness of those 3: their mindset. Robin is not a fighter but she maintain her composure in battle in any situation. At some point, the weak trio is ALWAYS getting scared or heavily surprised by what they witness.

Average Trio
I already said enough in the last sections ... but I add this to support what I said in a earlier post:
- Brook as weak as the weak trio ? Brook weaker than Robin & Franky ?
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v47/c454/16.html

Enough said

ErosVp
August 04, 2011, 01:59 PM
Yeah, The power balance is pretty much static...

Monster Trio.
Mid Trio, Franky being the strongest here. Brook and Robin have styles too differents to compare, but Brook seems to be capable of superhuman feats since before death, Robin's DF is uber but i didn't saw she using it in a fight against a pretty strong guy since she joined the strwahats. After the time skip many things may have changed, but i still think that if she grabs someone with superhuman strenght the guy can just break her arms by raise his arms focefully....

Weak trio is hard to rate. They can be really usefull in differents ways, Ussop being a sniper can be the most helpfull sometimes and Chopper's evolution as a fighter can make him compete against even Robin and Brook (at least pre time skip)...

zelllogan
August 04, 2011, 02:06 PM
About Robin: it's easy to break one pencil in two parts ... not as easy to break in two 20 pencils stuck together.

NB: I hate it when I do a long post & that I realize it's the last one of the former page ... :( :D

kkck
August 04, 2011, 02:20 PM
I still have quite some trouble imagining robin being in the same league as franky and brook. Franky is quite literally a fighting machine, he remade himself to be stronger and brook is a fairly decent swordsman (his technique rivals zoro´s actually, he just does not have his physical capacities) who can use music as a weapon. The impression I have is that robin is in the average trio just to complete 3 trios lol.

I actually do want to take back what I said about oda maintaining the status quo in the crew though, specifically for ussop and perhaps chopper. Ussop is the crew´s snipper, he specifically has a fighting position. All the strawhats are meant to be capable fighters but I would think given ussop´s position being almost exclusively battle oriented means he is meant to be at least considerably above the non fighting members. This is how I saw the crew pre time skip in terms of power:

Tier one
Luffy
zoro
sanji

tier two
franky
brook

tier 3
robin

tier 4
ussop
nami
chopper

I think that oda intends for the tier to look kinda like this in the near future due to ussop´s possition


Tier one
Luffy
zoro
sanji

tier two
franky
brook

tier 2.5
ussop


tier 3
robin
nami
chopper

Nami, robin and chopper being the weaker members in the crew actually makes sense if you think about it. The 3 of them actually have intellectual positions in the crew (archeologist, navigator and metheorologist, doctor) meaning that in the long run the strawhats would perhaps not benefit from them being in the front lines. Chopper is a guy so it kinda does seem he is meant to be in the front lines (not trying to be machist or anything of the sort BTW, I just get that impression) but logically he is not someone who should be fighting the enemy´s main fighters nor should have a place among the crew´s secondary fighting squad. Ussop definitely has to grow insanely strong, perhaps enough to eventually do this (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c579/14.html) but in turn there is something inherently weird about seeing him along the lines of brook and franky.... Perhaps we shouldn´t see the strawhats in trios though. Oda originally intended for the crew to have 10 members + luffy meaning trios won´t work all that well. If there are meant to be trios then perhaps luffy is meant to be out of them lol.

ErosVp
August 04, 2011, 02:21 PM
Hahahaha True Zellogan! Now that i saw it is on last page too...

It is hard but how you would rate the mid and weak trio Zellogan?

EDIT: Regarding kkck psot, that wasn's there when i wrotr...

I agree almost completely about the ranks and Ussop future position, but I still put Chooper above Nami. I don't know if it is because more tradicional fighters (those that uses punchs, swords, kick, and diverse weapons) cause more impression in me...

zelllogan
August 04, 2011, 02:30 PM
Hahahaha True Zellogan! Now that i saw it is on last page too...

It is hard but how you would rate the mid and weak trio Zellogan?

Pre-timeskip:
Monster trio:
1) Luffy
2) Zoro
3) Sanji

Mid trio:
4) Franky
5) Brook
6) Robin

Weak trio:
7) Chopper
8) Nami
9) Usopp

Post timeskip, IMO it should stay roughly the same. I would just swap Nami and Usopp because Usopp didn't improve only his knowledge & strength ... He greatly improved his mindset as well.

ErosVp
August 04, 2011, 02:40 PM
I agree with your pre timeskip. Ussop was ridiculou sometimes, and didn't defeat anyone from cp9. Now i would say he can be equal or stronger than Robin, since a good sniper can have a lot of potential in this manga.

jorped
August 04, 2011, 02:50 PM
I have high expectations for Franky. Currently i think he has everything to be the 4th stronger of the Crew. But the others also improved a lot, specially Ussop most likely. I hope that he has really suffer a huge incremental on his skills, since of all imo he was the weakest. I expect a lot from each member, but i also want to see a very strong Chopper. His kung fu looks awesome.

With the next chapter, i hope we start having a better idea, about the real strength of each SH.

ErosVp
August 04, 2011, 02:53 PM
I wonder if a new crewmember join, where he would fit in the power level...

jorped
August 04, 2011, 03:12 PM
I wonder if a new crewmember join, where he would fit in the power level...

I don't really am seeing someone that will absolutely join the crew. Jimbei, Shirahoshi are a possibility, and if they did join they would be in the middle. Though Shirahoshi power if well developed can put her definitely as one of the strongest :oh

ErosVp
August 04, 2011, 03:19 PM
If no one joins this arc, then there will be only in NW. Someone from NW must be strong enough to go straight to position 4 or 5...

Uriel
August 04, 2011, 03:27 PM
I'll say what I always say: I don't believe in power levels in One Piece. The rank could be something for fans to use it and a way to measure in-story their differences, but I think it's quite clear that it's not static and always depends on the enemy and the circumstance. Not only that, but I think that they mostly fight in unison with each other, which makes difficult to measure their raw strength alone.

I believe, though, in elastic zones in which members are "swimming".

ErosVp
August 04, 2011, 03:54 PM
I agree that power levels are hard to measure. Luffy wouldn't be able to spine Spandam and save Robin for exemple, There are thing only some guys can do with their ability and some abililitys are cryptonite for others.... But Admirals are stronger than vice-admiral (Garp exception, cause his level is above), Captains are stronger than their subortinates, etc. It is more hard to measure strenght between shichibukais and between younkous, but the crew has well outlined power level where Luffy > Zoro > Sanji > Franky > Brook...

kkck
August 04, 2011, 04:29 PM
I guess it depends on what you intend to include in power levels. In general I actually think power levels in OP are fairly clear which is something independent from how specific abilties would suit a specific situation. I mean, ussop can snipe someone from 2 miles away with one eye closed and a hand to his back but that does not mean he is stronger than luffy. You have to take things within context.... Heck, you could find situations where pre timeskip ussop would be more useful than the pirate king himself but that really does not mean much in a fight against roger himself.

Kyodai Senkan Mora
August 05, 2011, 12:18 PM
Also, didn´t oda actually state franky was the fourth strongest strawhat?
I must have missed this.Where exactly did he say this? maybe give us a link sir?

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------


Pre-timeskip:
Monster trio:
1) Luffy
2) Zoro
3) Sanji

Mid trio:
4) Franky
5) Brook
6) Robin

Weak trio:
7) Chopper
8) Nami
9) Usopp

Post timeskip, IMO it should stay roughly the same. I would just swap Nami and Usopp because Usopp didn't improve only his knowledge & strength ... He greatly improved his mindset as well.

I mostly agree with this except the after time skip ussop nami switch.Oda said in an SBS that ussop will always be the weakest strawhat because he represents what a normal human is capable of in the one piece world.will try and post the link soon.

ErosVp
August 05, 2011, 12:33 PM
Weakest strawhat in phisycal strenght if i remenber correctely! Like saying Ussop would lose to Nami in an arm wrestling, but Ussop abilities have more use in a fight than Nami's...

BigBadDogg
August 05, 2011, 02:24 PM
Nami is actually pretty strong with her weapons and knowledge. Most of the SH would have a problem fighting her. The way she can make mirages quickly is no joke. She has also fought some strong opponents and won.

guegoblok
August 08, 2011, 08:42 PM
Right now I'm assuming most of the strawhats can already use haki.... save Franky and Nami. Zoro, Sanji, Chopper and Usop already have mantra (observation, and I think Robin has this one also or she wouldn't have been able to locate Luffy and the gang without any prior meeting arrangements, I don't know if Nami has one, but her weather observation skill is more impressive, unique and useful than regular haki, so I wouldn't be surprised if she can use the normal haki). Not sure about Strengthening haki, but the monster trio should have them (because if they didn't have haki, it would be harder for them to take out a pacifista in one swoop).

As for the conqueror haki, only Luffy need this, but it might be a bonus if Sanji/Zoro have them, doubt it though. They only need one to weed out all the weaklings, since Luffy's haki can take out 50.000 people on one go, anymore would be redundant and pointless.

Schabrak
August 09, 2011, 05:27 AM
moriab/lilsizzo
More like a plot device to make Luffy stand out. We also don't know if he was capable of using bursts or hold back consciously to protect the NW pirates, most of them were of his alliance, not his own crew, so he probably couldn't differentiate between all of those, or it would cost to much power/concentration, strain his old body as said. Out of the 100 thousand of the Marines[Did someone point out that it's the same number of enemies the Mugiwaras have to face?^^] 80 to 90% were probably fodder too, with a doriki of ten. Only/mostly captains and above are stronger and I doubt that every tenth soldier was a captain.

Dylan21
August 09, 2011, 07:39 AM
I really doubt there is anything that is "too much" for the new world lol, specially when it comes down to haki. Haki should be a somewhat generic skill to varying degrees among people who have actual strength for the most part. The color of the conqueror will certainly be rare but in turn we should expect to see plenty of people with the other types shortly. You also have to consider every high ranking marine actually does in fact use haki.... Eventually it makes the most sense for all strawhats to master haki to some degree, dependind on their specialty. IMO the monster trio are candidates for all 3 types IMO at least.
I don't know about that . I mean sooner o later , Zoro and Sanji will learn how to use COA for sure, maybe COO but i doubt anyone expect Luffy will master COC . Later on the manga, maybe someone like Robin ,Usopp , Nami or Chopper will learn how to use COO .
If you think about it in Whitebeard crew, only Marco,Vista, Ace and WB himself could use haki , and that was the best crew in the world (maybe except for shank's and BB now ) . As for the marine's , only vice admirals and admirals can use haki, yeah there's Coby too , but he is destined to be at least a VA someday .
Haki doesn't mean win automatically every match, but if the top 3 fighters already have it, then they are gonna be able to at least face any situation . And we've got to remember that there are another 500-600 chapters before the end , so i wouldn't mind if at first, only Luffy could deal with Logia and Haki user .
Oda really turn up the expectations for the new world, and surely it's gonna be tough , but we already witness somehow what the "top" is , so IMO is best to delay the SH's approach to top for a while.

pizzaslicepwnu
August 09, 2011, 09:28 AM
in order to hit a logia you need to use haki or use the enamies particular weakness(his element weakness). i dont want every time the SH meet a logia that all of them (except luffy/zoro/sanji - who probably have COA) will be useless against him. the whole point of their training is that luffy wouldnt have to fight alone(and suffer the most),therefor assuming that all of them will master haki to some extent at some point of the story isnt that an impossible scanerio.

tensort
August 09, 2011, 10:46 AM
Well, we did kinda see Rayleigh using COC and he was only the second mate of the crew. It is extremely likely roger had it too given his position meaning the previous PK crew had two users of that particular type of haki. Marco, vista, jozu and WB are only the confirmed haki users but we really have no idea about the rest (. Worth mentioning, that crew with WB and ace had 2 COC users. Also, by high ranking marines I meant the admirals and VAs (of which the manga has shown at least 12). There are a few other WB pirates who I would think is extremely likely they can use haki to some degree. Fozza, Jiru, Atmos, Haruta, Kingdew, Blenheim... they are all experience fighters who have made a name for themselves in the strongest crew in the world. These guys are meant to fight admirals and VAs, given the conditions and that they seem mostly like physical fighters I doubt they won't have haki.

Now, first of all I don't think haki will automatically win every match, far from that. Even the facing any situation is a bit of a stretch although it is worth saying they kinda trained for 2 years for just that. Haki is something that comes with time and experience, I don't think the strawhats will only rarely face other haki users. To be completely honest I expect any enemy the strawhats have with a certain degree of strength to be a haki user at some level.

Yeah, that is what i already answered... Zoro being Vice captain, same as Ray-san was ... It would not be too unrevelant that he has COC.

Furthermore, actually, SH crew is really powerfull.... Read again the precedent Arc : New World Pirates had a lot of trouble againts Pacifistas... We did not see one shots. Even if more powerfull ones were fighting in the front line... And now 3 members of SH Crew can one shot them!

I can't wait to see what is next to them in NW. And which will be their next ennemy !

Deepak5191
August 09, 2011, 01:03 PM
yeah it is in the wrong thread....quick answer is that whitebeard is old....i think haki is affected by age and even if he is able to use haki...we would not be able to react to the danger being as old as he is...and i believe the marine there should be filtered to almsot 90% could withstand coc. kairosoky i believe is the stone right? if i am right it only shuts down ability from the devil fruit....now lets all discuss this in another thread...=)


i think the chapter 634 mention 100k pirates is roughly a figure and thus so defeating 50k of them would also be a figure.....there was a panel where it shows almost all the pirates but mostly are being displayed as dot. it seems robin are not really used to haki as she says..."this is haki" or smtg like tat..like she nvr experienced it before...or could be the reason she said that is she have no COC. =)

It's probably because during the war, there were so many people that it would be hard to target just the marines and not also hit the pirates inter mixed in the crowd. CoC seems like a double edged sword if the 2 sides are huge and already fighting.

kkck
August 09, 2011, 02:17 PM
Yeah, that is what i already answered... Zoro being Vice captain, same as Ray-san was ... It would not be too unrevelant that he has COC.

Furthermore, actually, SH crew is really powerfull.... Read again the precedent Arc : New World Pirates had a lot of trouble againts Pacifistas... We did not see one shots. Even if more powerfull ones were fighting in the front line... And now 3 members of SH Crew can one shot them!

I can't wait to see what is next to them in NW. And which will be their next ennemy !

Well, all we actually saw of the pacisfista were lone frames at a time but it did kinda seem like the pacifista were being taken out too. Boa was implied to have taken out several of them, and in all fairness she should be capable of taking them out very easily. To be completely honest I don't think people of the strawhats caliber will be all that weird in the new world. IMO it would not be strange in the least if the new world captains could actually give luffy a good run for their money. Its not like the war was fought solely by commanders. How would 14 of them match up against the admirals, VAs and shichibukai? They would have been outnumbered IMO, there must have necessarily been other strong people around and the only option are the new world crews.

tra
August 12, 2011, 09:58 PM
those of you who still think zoro can not use haki are in for a surprise because zoro is always looking to get stronger just think about it he had tears and his eyes and threw away his pride to train with mihawk to get stronger so do you think mihawk can just tell zoro that haki not only makes you stronger but it allows you to hit logia df types and the other one allows you to predict your enemies moves and you can bet that you will run into alot of people who know how to use haki in the new world and without the use of haki you can forget about challenging an admiral i don't think so if zoro know about haki trust me he tried his best to learn it and he succeded it only fit his character personality and if oda don't make zoro use haki then it will be dumb on oda part so please don't let me down

Captain Red Fists
August 12, 2011, 11:05 PM
i would like to see luffy combine his coa with gear 2 and see how fast he will become :P

BoobsMakeMeHappy
August 13, 2011, 12:42 AM
do u thnk robin wil start using guns http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/612/2 i kno some of u will b like "no ussop the sharpshooter she cant use guns" but look at brook and zoro any way id think it wud b cool and IMO she really doesnt need it but oda is always creative with everything he does look at gear 2nd theres not 1 person who expected tht & mayb he can do somthing creative with her using guns too...............................

Shojin
August 13, 2011, 03:53 PM
I highly doubt that she will use guns.

Zehahaha
August 13, 2011, 08:49 PM
I expect one thing from the SH's : pwning. (That's my fanboy side)

Well, I expect Haki from the monster trio, that's for sure. But the one I'm eager to see fight is Usopp. I'm not a fan for using plants or something like that, I was more expecting to see him having a gun and using his sniper skill to the max (combined with C.O.O). But, plants don't sound that bad either.

kkck
August 14, 2011, 10:56 PM
To be honest I don't expect robin to be physically a monster but I do think she will be something kinda like crocodile. Crocodile is probably not quite up there with many insanely strong people but in turn he has shown insane skills with his fruits and practical uses for it. For example, he uses dehydration through his sand, which should be effective against people of any level. His sand tornadoes were even capable of sending jozu flying... In this regard, his techniques are essentially effective against people much stronger than he is which makes him a bit of a wildcard and perhaps even capable of going up against anyone (he was not one shoted by mihawk for example). I don't expect robin to dehydrate people or create tornadoes of any sort but in turn I think she will be the sort who is dangerous due to the sheer level of mastery she has over her fruit.

I don't think a gun would suit ussop. A good sniper can probably do quite a bit with a gun (van auger could hit birds from islands so distant they could not be seen by people close to the target) but in turn a gun is limited in that it can only hit with bullets. Ussop has always been the type to rely heavily on having weapons with different effects such as explosions or fire.... He needs to keep that up and keep taking it to the extreme. To be honest I expect him to add a bit of physical combat to his mix. Run even more for the most part (kinda like when auger shot ace) while avoiding damage, perhaps go as far as being capable of punching back in the case of close combat. His attacks already have an altogether different scale from what they did before (the sea weed he grew was as large as the kraken and he comfortably grew plants strong enough to eat a man worth 30 mill) so perhaps once he gets offensive he will be able to mow through the fodder. Since he uses plants now I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he now attacks with weeds to trap his enemies or if he uses poisons or sleep powders from flowers and other plants. He could be something like a gardener from hell lol. Of course, there would be inherent limitations to plants as his plants are not going to get stronger as he does so he should have improved versions of his previous stars. A star capable of blowing up a building should be a given lol. He should have stuff he could imbue with haki in the long run too (he should do at least that much in the long run) so perhaps he will have stars with weapons or even regular shots with just haki. Perhaps a particular type of plant with spines which he can imbue with haki would be interesting. Heracles was able to summon bugs somehow so perhaps ussop will be able to do something like that. Perhaps he could control or grow them with some sort of plant.

As for brook, I have no idea. The first thing he should have improved is his swordsmanship. It should be quite insane by now. He seems to have developed his fruit although it does not seem to have practical uses yet other than keeping him alive. He could scare his enemy with a ghost but I can't imagine that working with strong people. He spent some time with doubled elbowed people so perhaps he learned how to manipulate music like appoo and do a crap loud of things with it. Brook should have gotten a better sword unless his current one is already good in some form. A normal sword should not last long in the new world anyways.

ErosVp
August 14, 2011, 11:30 PM
Ussop could use his Kabuto with his eccentric ammo to snipe, and if a foe approched him for close combat it would be cool if he taked double guns to fight!

I think i saw this somewhere before, i don't remember if it was a manga, anime or movie... A foe thought he would have the advantage against a guy using a rifle if he closed the distance, but when he went to punch there was a gun in his face! Kabuto act like a rifle right? I'm not saying he would finish the fight using guns, but he could use it to keep away/repel the enemy and matain the combat in his comfort zone, with distance. If his kabuto had a longer handle, he could use it to repel the enemy and fight like Beckman.


ps: think the maid in Black Butler did something like that too...

Wisshard
August 15, 2011, 03:56 AM
I don't know about that . I mean sooner o later , Zoro and Sanji will learn how to use COA for sure, maybe COO but i doubt anyone expect Luffy will master COC. [...] If you think about it in Whitebeard crew, only Marco,Vista, Ace and WB himself could use haki.
If you recall, it took Luffy, an alleged Haki prodigy, one and a half year of personal tutelage from the late Pirate King's "Partner" himself to get the forms down. It would be a little incongruous if Zoro & Sanji come out of two years of intense training only to require 2-4 years more training from Luffy himself in order to keep up. Or, alternatively, if they keep up with Luffy despite lacking the ability to utilize Haki, have significantly superior physical ability compared to Luffy (including Gears). I can't see Oda going down either route personally, especially as there is no reason that Zoro and Sanji can't have learned to use Haki during the time-skip.

As for ol' Edward and his merry-band, Marco, Jozu, Vista and Edward himself may have been the only ones who displayed the ability to utilize Haki on-panel, but those were very likely not the only Haki-users among the Whitebeard Pirates.


Haki doesn't mean win automatically every match,
Indeed. Haki is a skillset, although a rather unique one, and is only as useful as it's user. It would be perfectly possible to contend without Haki (as we saw when G2 Luffy trounced Marigold and Sandersonia), though you'd need a significant edge elsewhere (i.e. a notable superiority in speed and strength, to make up for CoO and CoA, respectively).


Oda really turn up the expectations for the new world, and surely it's gonna be tough , but we already witness somehow what the "top" is , so IMO is best to delay the SH's approach to top for a while.
I agree. The Straw-Hats have come out of the time-skip with immense improvement, but I think they still have a way to go before they can compete with Yonkous and Admirals. But that doesn't mean that the Straw-Hats wont be outstanding: similar to their journey throughout the Grand Line, the Straw-Hats will still contend with the prominent figures (i.e. strong pirate crews outside the Yonkous, the top Vice-Admirals etc.).

Personally, I expect Luffy's & Zoro's fighting prowess to be comparable to what Ace's was, with Sanji, as ever, a small, but notable, bit behind.

Jorge D. Dragon
October 25, 2011, 04:01 AM
Reading the last chapter I thought that it was a bitunfortunate that Chopper didn't have a proper combat teacher. He would have become considerably stronger if someone taught him some moves or even some combat style. Of course he got bigger after the timeskip and got better with his Devel Fruit, but it was expected from him, cause it was the only thing he was using from the begining of his presense in the crew. I actually believe that it would have been quite an interesting thing from Oda's part if he met someone like an old boxer or some guy from that tribe on the island to get his fighting techs on a different level and actually make him on par with Franky after the timeskip. Even now I would say Chopper has quite an interesting potential, considering his Devil Fruit. If he can use his Monster Form that we saw in Ennies Lobby for some time it can be quite devastating, but until now he isn't that strong, but still he can hold his own in the begining of the New World for now. I hope he didn't show all he has.:) Hope Oda will surprise us.

P.S. Maybe he learned a bit of Kunf-fu as we saw his Kung-fu point.:)) It would be quite an interesting development for him.:)

kkck
October 25, 2011, 11:01 PM
To be honest one of the crew members I expect the most out of is nami.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c596/5.html

I think it is a safe assumption that nami is currently using at least some version of the weather ball as weapons. Now, the specifics have not been explained in detail however the weather ball was explicitly stated to have a HUGE amount of power. I guess it kinda comes down to what version of the weather ball she has and perhaps how many. We have seen little from her so far, so little that it actually is not significantly more than what she could do with her staff before the timeskip. Anyways, her previous staff was at least capable of taking out a entire squad of marines at least which is no small feat for a normal human. If we take take eredas's words to heart then nami would even go as far as being overpowered under the right circumstances. She has been fighting hordes of fishmen on her own though, in the past she would not have managed that so easily. At the moment perhaps her true power would extent to a huge storm over a large area however that should require her a bit of time. Still, if she does manage to set up a reasonably sized storm and have complete control over it she would have a lot of firepower to say the least (perhaps enough to take out her share of 10000 fishmen).

Jorge D. Dragon
October 26, 2011, 01:48 AM
I actually don't think that Nami would be really powerful. I believe she will be the same weakest in all senses member of the crew. She will just get an upgrade to take mass of fodder, but from the New World (before she also managed to mostly take fodder like nameless marines and they even managed to come back to the fight) as it was in Ennies Lobby). As she is now taking down fodder fishmen. I actually don't expect her to take any of relatively strong opponents in this arc.

matzik1212
October 26, 2011, 12:08 PM
Well Nami doesn't have to be stronger she just has to be smarter and more skilled in navigation to know how to deal with the crazy islands we saw that are in the NW ......i think that's what she meant by becoming more powerful 'cause after all if the SH's don't have a good navigator or they let someone like Zoro take the lead then they're practically screwed :D .....they are all in the palm of her hand :p or to put it simply no Nami no Luffy becoming PK

Kyodai Senkan Mora
October 26, 2011, 12:33 PM
they let someone like Zoro take the lead then they're practically screwed :D .....they are all in the palm of her hand :p or to put it simply no Nami no Luffy becoming PK

I don't know...I feel that if they let Zoro navigate they would be in Raftel by now.lol.He has a tendency on rare occasions to get to the right place by pure luck before anyone else

Jorge D. Dragon
October 31, 2011, 11:33 AM
Actually I though it would be very funny to see Sanji eating Kangooru or Rabit Zoan DF..:) It would be very funny and will develop futher his fighting style. Even though I know that it's practically impossible, but still that would be quite hilarious. And this might also help him with women.;)

k-dom
November 04, 2011, 11:23 AM
Now that we see Chopper having mastered monster point, I'm more confident that he still has more than the old 7 transformations points and that the kung-fu point is not a redesign of one of them.
That's cool, because I was a bit disappointed after reading chapter 636, thinking he had still only 7 points. That means he will continue to surprise us and be stronger.

By now my understanding is that he has
* 3 devil fruit points : Brain, Heavy and Walk
* 3 ex Rumble ball points that he now can use as the 3 regular one : Jump, Horn and Arm
* 1 Old point he still need a rumble ball for : Guard
* New points he has mastered : so far Monster and Kung fu

kkck
November 04, 2011, 11:49 AM
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c636/12.html

Well, chopper never implied he had more forms. He merely mentioned he remade the 7 original, 6 of which he could access at will. I have my doubts of him having more forms. I do get the impression he has not showed all his forms yet. The ones in the page next to the one I posted shows five forms and implies monster point but it does not seem like he has shown all forms. Which are we missing? Maybe arm point?

k-dom
November 04, 2011, 12:47 PM
Damn I forgot about that picture
I we considered the 5 ones in the shadow are the one he can transform into without rumble ball (the 6th one being the Human heavy pointo), then that means that Kung fu is indeed an old one (probably Jump point). Which would make arm point the one with rumble ball. That can make sense, since it was suppose to be his strongest one, also he did not choose it here (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c642/19.html)
Anyway, Monster point is definitively a 8th one.

kkck
November 04, 2011, 01:28 PM
Actually it would not be an 8th one. If chopper remodeled his forms the all of his current forms are based on the old ones or have been effectively replaced. I forgot about human point so that would make the seven forms he has mentioned. We have his brain point, human point, kung fuu point, the hairy form, horn point and monster point which are all the forms mentioned and hinted at. I doubt he will have an arm point as his human form seems to incorporate it. His horn point seems to have the ability to dig and the jumping capacity of his jump point. Kung fuu point is entirely new for the most part. Basically, he altogether gave up his jump point and arm point by incorporating them into other forms. I would also think the form which needs the rumble ball is his monster form. I do wonder how exactly he changed his rumble to make this work though. If I recall his monster point consumed every bit of energy he has and hurt his body which does not seem to be the case now.

k-dom
November 04, 2011, 01:51 PM
But before the time skip he had 7 transformations + Monster point

So when he says
I'm not a beetle!!! // I've spent these past two years improving all seven of my Transformation Points! / There's only one form I need the Rumble Ball for now!! The other six, I can use freely at any time!!
Obviously monster point is not the one he need the rumble ball for since it is not part of the 7. Otherwise that means that one of the improvement in question consists in transforming one of his old point into Monster point which would be very misleading from Oda

kkck
November 04, 2011, 04:56 PM
Well, if he remodeled his forms it is perfectly plausible his monster point is now one of the forms. I would think the logic behind the forms is that each form will fulfill a specific task. In that regard his remodelation of his 7 forms could easily be made so that his now in control monster point is included. Nothing of what chopper said hints at him having 8 forms accessible to him at the moment. If he had more than 7 forms he would have said he could access more than 1 form with the rumble ball right? If monster point did not require the rumble ball then he would have 7 forms accessible to him at will when he said he only had 6 of those. If at the moment chopper has more than 7 forms it would have to be one that he is not able to access at will or with the rumble ball.

cheddarpretzels
November 19, 2011, 11:00 PM
From last week's chapter and today's episode, here's how I think his forms work now:
(Chopper had Monster Point and Chopper did NOT use a rumble ball for big Guard)
RB = Rumble Ball
3 forms from fruit: Walk, Brain, Heavy
Forms w/o use of RB: Jump, Guard, Arm, Horn, Kung Fu <--- all these forms are now improved (bigger guard, horns etc.)
Form w/ use of RB: Total control of Monster Point [3 minutes]

Ninja_Pirate
November 22, 2011, 02:50 AM
From last week's chapter and today's episode, here's how I think his forms work now:
(Chopper had Monster Point and Chopper did NOT use a rumble ball for big Guard)
RB = Rumble Ball
3 forms from fruit: Walk, Brain, Heavy
Forms w/o use of RB: Jump, Guard, Arm, Horn, Kung Fu <--- all these forms are now improved (bigger guard, horns etc.)
Form w/ use of RB: Total control of Monster Point [3 minutes]

I wonder then what will happen if he still overdose RB... is his limit still for 2 RB... or he has increased that too.... I guess he also have ace up the sleeves...

Mister A
January 25, 2013, 02:02 AM
Well, just an observation.... But I don't think the straw hat crew is nearly as strong as the previous pirate kings crew was. One of the main reasons being the first mate and even an apprentice (shanks) possessed the haki of conquerors... Which was said to be one in a million. But in the straw hat crew, only the captain possesses it. Although I dunno if oda will decide later on if zoro and sanji can use it too, but until they do... I don't really see them on par with the crew of the previous pirate king!
This was my first post here btw..:)

UnknownMugiwara
January 25, 2013, 03:00 AM
I don't see Zoro or Sanji getting CoC. They are strong enough without it, and it's really not great story telling IMO if the main characters have the ability to win without battle.
The only Straw Hat I can see being able to use CoC besides Luffy, is Usopp. Because he's the weakest, and it somehow would he ironic how the "weakest" strawhat could have such a strong ability.

sir_rocky
January 25, 2013, 07:37 PM
This could be only my wishful thinking but i really believe that Zoro already has CoC, he is exactly the type of person that could dominate others by sheer force of his will. And he and Luffy need something to put them on another level from the other crew members. I know Sanji is part of monster trio but i don't think he has disposition for CoC and he has his cooking just like Franky is a shipwright, Chopper is a doctor, Brook a musician etc. Every other member, except Luffy and Zoro, has a specific field of expertise, but the only thing the two of them do is fight.

jaymizzo
January 26, 2013, 11:20 AM
I personally expect the Monster trio to wipe the floor with any Marine up to Vice Admiral level and give a run at the Admirals. I also want Luffy to rely less on his DF and try and fight without it making himself a wild card.

Airgrimes
January 27, 2013, 04:47 PM
I personally expect the Monster trio to wipe the floor with any Marine up to Vice Admiral level and give a run at the Admirals. I also want Luffy to rely less on his DF and try and fight without it making himself a wild card.
Monster Trio?
So... Up to Vice Admiral level do you mean Sanji and Garp would be about equal?

vagabond87
January 27, 2013, 04:52 PM
Monster Trio?
So... Up to Vice Admiral level do you mean Sanji and Garp would be about equal?

Garp is exceptional so he should not be used as example like that.
I do think that Monster Trio is like 3 Vice Admirals on one ship with Luffy being stronger than almost any VA, Zoro on strong VA level, Sanji somewhere around Vergo level- we will have to wait and see more from them.

I do expect Sanji vs Vergo remach with Sanji being winner.
I do expect that Zoro will in future fight Onigumo and win.
I do expect that Luffy will beat shitload of strong people :3c soon :derp

MiyamotoMusashi
January 28, 2013, 10:46 AM
I personally expect the Monster trio to wipe the floor with any Marine up to Vice Admiral level and give a run at the Admirals. I also want Luffy to rely less on his DF and try and fight without it making himself a wild card.

That will always be part of Luffy, that he only goes all out if he believes in the reason or cause behind the fight.

Airgrimes
April 04, 2013, 02:06 PM
Yeah still not convinced that Sanji is confidently at VA level.
I agree with Zoro though especially since the mystery about his eye hasn't been cleared up.
If it turns out the bastard can see through both eyes and he's been handicapping himself all this time then... He's a got damn beast

jaymizzo
April 04, 2013, 02:53 PM
Monster Trio?
So... Up to Vice Admiral level do you mean Sanji and Garp would be about equal?

Garp is not the same as any other Vice Admiral. He is IMO probably strong enough to take any Admiral and come out a winner.

By VA level i mean anyone who isnt Garp-level. I.e. Vergo and the bunch.

Airgrimes
April 05, 2013, 08:47 AM
By VA level i mean anyone who isnt Garp-level. I.e. Vergo and the bunch.
I get you.
Due to the circumstances between Vergo VS Sanji we can't confirm Sanji is necessarily weaker than VA I guess.
But I dunno... I just feel Oda is slowly preparing to underline that Zoro is the first mate and Sanji is just the cook.
So we're not too far from the gap widening in the Monster trio.

susanoo13
April 05, 2013, 08:59 AM
How would you rank Franky for that matter?
I believe that soon enough it will be a monster quadro and not trio since he's at least stronger than a pacifista right now yet it's hard to gauge it against a VA.

kkck
April 05, 2013, 10:56 AM
Well, for franky to be worth something he should actually be well stronger than a pacifista himself otherwise he really wouldn't be able to bring in something to the crew with his own fighting strength (old pacifista at least, not the new stronger ones). His laser is a huge asset, I don't think a proper defense against it other than dodging actually exists as of now. He was actually able to bring down a wall sanji was not able to kick even with his insane strength. I guess he is somewhat handicapped in the technology department when compared to regular pacifista though, the others can spam their lasers while franky needs both hands to use his own. In terms of strength and gadgets he should be superior though and his metal general should be quite a beast. He was at least able to handle two of doflamingo's men on his own so he has to have a decent standing. Franky was able to hold his ground against base luffy back in ennies lobby however even that was not enough to actually make a monster quartette back in the day though. Franky's relative position in regards to the monster trio would have to improve in order for him to actually be able to form a quartette so to speak. IMO it is unlikely oda has any intention of changing the relative stand of the strawhats in regards to the others.

Airgrimes
April 05, 2013, 11:01 AM
Precisely. After Rayleigh, and looking at all the other Pirate crews, I think First mate and Captain are shown to be a tier above the rest of the crew.
Franky is just the shipwright and Sanji is just the cook.
Whilst I acknowledge Franky isn't too far off from turning it into a Monster Quartet, At the same time, we are yet to see Zoro open his eye and its not confirmed he's become permanently half-blind.
So it could be Zoro just handicapping himself until he is forced into a scenario where has to gotdamn use it.

We also haven't seen the crew in a serious brink of death situation in Part II yet which is where the Monster Trio notably gain great growth.
I can't support my theory too strongly just yet, but after Sanji VS Vergo, I strongly anticipate a Monster Duo. instead of Monster Trio.

kkck
April 05, 2013, 11:54 AM
I don't think oda will give up on monster trios just yet. He has shown a decent bit of them so far.

3 admirals
luffy, zoro, sanji
lucci, kaku, jyabura
marco, jozu, vista(at least those 3 were the most prominent commanders)
Oda has already said there was a guy named bronze in gold roger's crew. So we have gold, silver and bronze there.
3 types of DF
3 marine fortresses
And so on...

I think oda has a thing for the number 3, plain and simple.

M3J
April 05, 2013, 01:26 PM
I expect Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji to be extremely powerful, strong enough to give challenge to the admirals pre-war, if not win. I don't think it was ever stated outright that Luffy was stronger than Zoro or Sanji. Luffy was the only one who had a chance of beating Lucci because of his rubber abilities while Zoro stands better chance against Mihawk because he's a swordsman. I dunno who to compare Sanji to, but he has a killer kick and a great tanking ability and speed.

I expect some awesome stuff from Usopp. He's clever, he should be able to come up with cool ways to win and help SHP out like when they were going to and were in Fishman Island. Hell, he owned the fake Nami in a cool way with his plants. Frankie is just a mysterious robot, but he should have some more cool stuff than what he's shown.

I'm pretty interested in Robin and Nami's growht though, physically and combat-wise. Robin was able to do a bunshin, so I'm hoping she shows more than that. Nami's weapons and her intelligence should make her more dangerous, if not physically.

MiyamotoMusashi
April 05, 2013, 02:37 PM
Just my 2 cents on the last few posts:

Regarding Sanji:
I think having him fight together with Jinbe and having him fight the strongest opponent of the SHs after the timeskip, namely Vergo, is supposed to demonstrate that even the weakest of the "Monster Trio" is at a level to fight at a really strong level (though there are no real tiers in OP considering the huge amount of versatile abilities).
The whole point of the timeskip was to enable the SHs to fight even the strongest characters in the world of OP and i think that succeeded without making them too strong or too overwhelming.
Furthermore, the term "Monster Trio" which was only mentioned once or twice in the manga itself and is more hyped by the fandom, was never a term to illustrate that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are on a same level but that those three are just so much stronger than the rest of the crew which has not changed by the way.
Franky, who has had a few highlights post-TS, is essentially a Pacifista, only with more intelligence and a more versatile fighting style but without the ability to spam lasers like the Pacifista while the "Monster Trio" has been shown to have the ability to even oneshot a Pacifista (though whether they could do the same to Franky is debatable).
The "door incident" on Punk Hazard does not disprove this point because it was explicitly stated that the door was made to absorb any kind of physical damage. As far as we know, not even Luffy´s attacks could have done something.

To the matter of Luffy, Sanji and Zoro being on the same level, i think that´s also not true. Pretty much the entire manga, Luffy got the main villain of the arc as opponent who always was much stronger than his subordinates or the opponents of Sanji and Zoro:

Luffy got Crocodile who frightened all his agents, including Mr1 and Mr2 who were depicted as some kind of rivals.
Enel was like god compared to the rest of the opponents (though in this case, Luffy clearly had the advantage)
Lucci had a Douriki of 4000 while Kaku and Jyabura had 2200/2180 (@M3J: Luffy´s advantage against blunt attacks did not play a role when Lucci was in his leopard form) and Moria was the source of all the deeds on Thriller Bark.
While i am definitely not suggesting that Luffy is much stronger than Sanji and Zoro, especially considering that Luffy is more hurt than the other two after his fights, i still think that there is a gap between them while S+Z are depicted as near equals.
Airgrimes´argument that VCs and second-in-commands are always depicted as stronger than the rest of the crew does not stick with the SHs because the SHs does not have a traditional structure in the first place. Zoro is only considered to be the VC to outsiders because of his renown but unlike the Roger Pirates, the SHs does not have a VC.

Schabrak
April 05, 2013, 03:35 PM
Because there is no real reason to give a crew of 9[Luffy included] a postion of vice-captain. If training is any indication than Zorro is the second in power, if at all, because he lost an eye and trained with the top swordsman of the world while Sanji ran from Okama and a RA commander, who was Imo depicted below Mihawk in strength despite "winking" both Kuma and Akainu at times.

Airgrimes
April 05, 2013, 03:40 PM
I don't think oda will give up on monster trios just yet. He has shown a decent bit of them so far.

3 admirals
luffy, zoro, sanji
lucci, kaku, jyabura
marco, jozu, vista(at least those 3 were the most prominent commanders)
Oda has already said there was a guy named bronze in gold roger's crew. So we have gold, silver and bronze there.
3 types of DF
3 marine fortresses
And so on...

I think oda has a thing for the number 3, plain and simple.
I'll be honest, you've just managed to change my outlook on the whole series especially after you dropped the "Oda mentioned a guy named bronze in Roger's crew" line.
I take back my Monster Duo theory.
FOR NOW......

In my defense, I was remembering the Supernova's with Kid & Killer, Luffy & Zoro,
Then there is what seems to be Garp & Sengoku from the generation, Shanks & Benn Beckmann seem to be the clear top two.

And in defense for the Monster Quartet idea earlier, the only parallel I can think of was Arlong and his 3 main assistants Hachi, kuroobi and chew


Because there is no real reason to give a crew of 9[Luffy included] a postion of vice-captain. If training is any indication than Zorro is the second in power, if at all, because he lost an eye and trained with the top swordsman of the world while Sanji ran from Okama and a RA commander, who was Imo depicted below Mihawk in strength despite "winking" both Kuma and Akainu at times.
Why should size affect one's decision on whether there should be a Vice-Captain.
It all depends on how the Captain and crew feels.
We could see smaller crews that have officially titled first mates.

Is it confirmed Zoro lost his eye? (I would find it pretty lame if he did)

MiyamotoMusashi
April 05, 2013, 03:45 PM
Because there is no real reason to give a crew of 9[Luffy included] a postion of vice-captain. If training is any indication than Zorro is the second in power, if at all, because he lost an eye and trained with the top swordsman of the world while Sanji ran from Okama and a RA commander, who was Imo depicted below Mihawk in strength despite "winking" both Kuma and Akainu at times.

How do you know that Sanji was not trained by Ivankov who in turn had his/her way with Kuma? Seeing that Sanji has an attack called "Spectrum".

Schabrak
April 05, 2013, 03:52 PM
Why should size affect one's decision on whether there should be a Vice-Captain.
It all depends on how the Captain and crew feels.
We could see smaller crews that have officially titled first mates.

Is it confirmed Zoro lost his eye? (I would find it pretty lame if he did)
I wrote that an official position is not needed when the relationship between the crew members is clear as day and especially after Zorro has spoken a word of command once or twice in the past already.

I think many readers will be disappointed if he has not lost it yet. How nonsensical it would be to run around with a closed eye for days, just because of what exactly? Idiocy would be the only justification, I don't need any Vegeta/Kenpachi restraining stuff within the mugiwaras or even in OP.

We could, did we in the past 700 chapters of this manga? Pirates crews appeared from chapter 1.


How do you know that Sanji was not trained by Ivankov who in turn had his/her way with Kuma? Seeing that Sanji has an attack called "Spectrum".
I didn't intend to make it sound like that, of course he did train with him as well as what 99 other okama? Still Invankow is only one of many RA commanders, while Mihawk is the top swordfighter of the world. Strong trainer doesn't mean greater development, I don't like that cliche, but it insinuates that in this case Imo.

Airgrimes
April 05, 2013, 06:01 PM
We could, did we in the past 700 chapters of this manga? Pirates crews appeared from chapter 1.

Yeah. We did.
Bellamy Pirates were shown to have no more than 12 members.
3 unnamed and 9 named. Sarquiss being a confirmed First Mate.
Thank you very much for pointing out that Pirate crews appeared from Chapter 1, nobody else on the forum would have noticed if you didn't point that one out.
Thanks man.

I like almost everyone agrees with you Zoro is the First Mate, and I expect Oda to make it official eventually.

kkck
April 05, 2013, 06:40 PM
In regards to ussop, he is supposed to eventually go up against that sniper guy from BB's crew. That guy is most likely also something like a commander in BB's crew meaning that he must be to put it mildly insanely powerful. Ben was seen stopping an admiral on his tracks with a gun, it wouldn't be strange if this guy could do something vaguely like that. Ussop is going well with his plants so far but the main issue here is that he is only as strong as his plants are at any given time. Plants are good but ussop will have to learn at some point haki just so that he can add it to normal bullets in the future. It would perhaps be less showy but I am of the idea that eventually he will have to incorporate something else into his fighting style so as to not be limited by the strength of his plants.

jaymizzo
April 06, 2013, 08:15 AM
I get you.
Due to the circumstances between Vergo VS Sanji we can't confirm Sanji is necessarily weaker than VA I guess.
But I dunno... I just feel Oda is slowly preparing to underline that Zoro is the first mate and Sanji is just the cook.
So we're not too far from the gap widening in the Monster trio.

I dont think you have to be the strongest to be the first mate though (out of the crew members) its just a coincidence that most First Mates are quite strong haha. Logically Zoro is the first mate but it isnt really confirmed nor do the Strawhats operate that way.

I personally think Sanji and Zoro are VA level or above (between Admiral - VA), the Vergo incident, i seem to recall Sanji not having much trouble with Vergo nor did he seem to be having a hard time (aside from the broken leg) which he brushed off and continued defending with the same leg.

Dont think the gap will ever be that wide, they have always been close.

eefrit
April 06, 2013, 08:56 AM
Dont think the gap will ever be that wide, they have always been close.

Yeah, if Oda were to change any dynamic in the manga, I don't think it'll be this one. I'll be honest though, Sanji hasn't really been given a good showing since the start of the time-skip. The best he got was destroying a pacifista and attacking a tentacle. Vergo was cool, but the showing really didn't help him in the long run.

As for the differences in training, just because a big name didn't train him doesn't mean he is weaker for it. I mean he spent two years running and fighting, I'm assuming non-stop judging from the brief flashback, 99 Newkama Kenpo Masters. And I'm assuming they were strong as they were apparently tough enough to force Sanji to increase his strength enough to oneshot a pacifista.

Airgrimes
June 07, 2013, 12:32 PM
As for the differences in training, just because a big name didn't train him doesn't mean he is weaker for it. I mean he spent two years running and fighting, I'm assuming non-stop judging from the brief flashback, 99 Newkama Kenpo Masters. And I'm assuming they were strong as they were apparently tough enough to force Sanji to increase his strength enough to oneshot a pacifista.
I'd say it does give a difference actually. There's being trained by Rayleigh, being trained by Mihawk, being trained by the Newkama Kenpo masters, being trained by Weather scientists and being trained cavemen on Torino island lol.
I'd say this could easily be an excuse for Oda to decide to widen the gap between the Monster Trio.