PDA

View Full Version : Shihōin Yoruichi vs Yadōmaru Lisa



igotthegoods
February 09, 2011, 10:29 PM
Yoruichi vs. Lisa

http://static.mangahelpers.com/gallery-previews/14045.jpg

this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Yoruichi

Shihōin Yoruichi, former captain of the 2nd Division and former head of Omnitsukidō (Covert Ops), is intelligent, witty, and often playful. Because of her former high-ranking positions as well as being part of the noble Shihōin clan, she holds an intimate knowledge of Soul Society and its workings. Not much is known about her zanpakutō or its abilities as she is rarely even seen with it, although it is known that she has achieved bankai. Yoruichi, who holds the title of "Goddess of Flash", possesses incredible speed and is considered to be the most proficient Shunpo master in all of Soul Society. She has also mastered the advanced technique Shunkō, which combines hand-to-hand combat with kidō.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Lisa

Yadōmaru Lisa was the former lieutenant of the 8th Division under Captain Kyōraku Shunsui. She is a girl with glasses and long, braided, dark hair, who dresses in a seifuku. She seems easily irritated and apparently likes to read erotic manga.

Her mask resembles a knight's helmet with a cross shape opening on it. Her zanpakutō is called Haguro Tonbo. In its shikai form, it becomes a large guan dao or monk's spade with a fanned blade and large orb on the opposite end.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

Random101
February 15, 2011, 11:47 PM
Melee, and not even with a particularly large edge to it at that vs. the easily second best hand to hand combatant in the series equipped with among the highest level of speed and insane and highly precise brute force. Yeah, Lisa's got little chance in this one.

kkck
February 15, 2011, 11:50 PM
Does she have the weapons urahara made for her? I think she wins even without them but adding them would be interesting. They could count as a zampakuto right?

Omiem
February 15, 2011, 11:54 PM
I don't think Yoruichi will need her guantlets here. Shunko alone is already terrifying enough. Lisa hasn't display the feats to counter something like that, so she would lose pretty badly.

El Samurai Guapo
February 16, 2011, 12:10 AM
Yoruichi wins this, although it certainly won't be a rape considering she seems to have lost her zanpakutou for some reason. Lisa also seems pretty skilled in melee, held her own against released Harribel for a while, and has a mask. Still, that's not enough to contend with the fastest character in the manga and her shunko.

Tsukisama
February 16, 2011, 12:53 AM
Does she have the weapons urahara made for her? I think she wins even without them but adding them would be interesting. They could count as a zampakuto right?

Sorry. Characters are not allowed prep time, and those weapons are not a part of her normal repertoire. Urahara gave those to her especially for facing Aizen. So, Yoruichi fights unarmed.

EDIT:
Technically he gave them to her especially to negate hierro's, of which Aizen wouldn't have in the first place.

Then again neither does Lisa so their intended purpose is moot. Granted they could be used to block. Lisa definitely wouldn't be able to pull an Evolved Aizen on those, but it's not necessary to say the least.

You're right about that. It's still not considered part of her regular repertoire and still disallowed though.

Random101
February 16, 2011, 01:42 AM
Technically he gave them to her especially to negate hierro's, of which Aizen wouldn't have in the first place.

Then again neither does Lisa so their intended purpose is moot. Granted they could be used to block. Lisa definitely wouldn't be able to pull an Evolved Aizen on those, but it's not necessary to say the least.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 16, 2011, 01:58 AM
I'd go with Yoruichi. She is not only the fastest character in the manga (not counting Aizen's evolutions and Ichigo after Dangai training), but also is one of the best hand to hand fighters and has Shunkou that will be enough for Lisa.:)

El Samurai Guapo
In fact she didn't loose her Zan:
http://www.mangareader.net/94-631-8/bleach/chapter-177.html
http://www.mangareader.net/94-631-9/bleach/chapter-177.html
I think it's just not her fighting style for now, or maybe Kubo was saving it for the next arcs, though I'd say that she should have a posibility to at least use her Zan in sealed form in her fights if needed in this Tournament.:)

xXan
February 16, 2011, 02:14 AM
I'd go with Yoruichi. She is not only the fastest character in the manga (not counting Aizen's evolutions and Ichigo after Dangai training), but also is one of the best hand to hand fighters and has Shunkou that will be enough for Lisa.:)

El Samurai Guapo
In fact she didn't loose her Zan:
http://www.mangareader.net/94-631-8/bleach/chapter-177.html
http://www.mangareader.net/94-631-9/bleach/chapter-177.html
I think it's just not her fighting style for now, or maybe Kubo was saving it for the next arcs, though I'd say that she should have a posibility to at least use her Zan in sealed form in her fights if needed in this Tournament.:)

I can't see it. Where is her Zan in those pics? I always wonder if she had one or why she does not have one.

Takahashi
February 16, 2011, 02:51 AM
I can't see it. Where is her Zan in those pics? I always wonder if she had one or why she does not have one.

For some reason he showed a picture of Yoroichi keeping Aizen's sword in the sheath...

Anyhoo, we've seen her with one when she's recalling memories of training with Urahara.

http://img3.lln.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/01282008/b/6/d/4/b6d48777207e70_full.jpg

Can't be bothered to look for the chapter, but the anime was just a trace of it anyway.

As far as the topic goes. Yoroichi.

She was only slightly slower than Soi Fon when she was rusty, I'd imagine now she's back to being #1 in speed now. Couple that in with the completed Shunko, which as far as I can tell is like wrapping your body with an explosive Raikoho. It's unfortunate that we've never really seen either in a comparable scenario, but it's not unreasonable to assume it's damn powerful.

Lisa's got a pretty brutal Shikai, but I can't imagine she'll ever connect with it.

g0dzax
February 16, 2011, 02:56 AM
Yoruichi wins this pretty easily I might say.She won't completely dominate Lisa,but she'll win quite easily.

xXan
February 16, 2011, 03:05 AM
For some reason he showed a picture of Yoroichi keeping Aizen's sword in the sheath...

Anyhoo, we've seen her with one when she's recalling memories of training with Urahara.

http://img3.lln.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/01282008/b/6/d/4/b6d48777207e70_full.jpg

Can't be bothered to look for the chapter, but the anime was just a trace of it anyway.

As far as the topic goes. Yoroichi.

She was only slightly slower than Soi Fon when she was rusty, I'd imagine now she's back to being #1 in speed now. Couple that in with the completed Shunko, which as far as I can tell is like wrapping your body with an explosive Raikoho. It's unfortunate that we've never really seen either in a comparable scenario, but it's not unreasonable to assume it's damn powerful.

Lisa's got a pretty brutal Shikai, but I can't imagine she'll ever connect with it.

Yeah that is how it looked to me to. Anyway i hope we get some answeres eventualy as to where is her zan.

Takahashi
February 16, 2011, 03:08 AM
Yeah that is how it looked to me to. Anyway i hope we get some answeres eventualy as to where is her zan.

Possibly not for a long time when Bleach is coming to an end. She's kind of like Kenpachi, the way she fights is a part of her character.

We can at least see the basic design of her Zan, but as to what it does? Who knows. I'd hope it has something to do with assassination.

Still, without it, she still takes it just fine.

Jorge D. Dragon
February 16, 2011, 03:11 AM
xXan, Takahashi The problem is that this scene is a bit short in manga and not very clear, though I remember that in anime in the same episode she was also using her Zan to keep Aizen.:)
Though as Takahashi said we also saw her Zan in a flashback when we were shown her training with Kisuke.:)

xXan
February 16, 2011, 03:15 AM
Possibly not for a long time when Bleach is coming to an end. She's kind of like Kenpachi, the way she fights is a part of her character.

We can at least see the basic design of her Zan, but as to what it does? Who knows. I'd hope it has something to do with assassination.

Still, without it, she still takes it just fine.

Yeah i know she takes this... I was just hoping i missed her using it.


xXan, Takahashi The problem is that this scene is a bit short in manga and not very clear, though I remember that in anime in the same episode she was also using her Zan to keep Aizen.:)
Though as Takahashi said we also saw her Zan in a flashback when we were shown her training with Kisuke.:)

I don't know about the anime but in the manga i really can't see her with any zan in those pics.
As for the flashback... Well something probably happened to it in the time skip and i am really curious what.

The bottom line is that we probably can't use her Zan here. Not that she needs it anyway :P

Jorge D. Dragon
February 16, 2011, 03:23 AM
xXan
In fact I do agree that she doesn't need her Zan hear.:) I was just trying to justify the possibility of using her Zan in later fights.:)

Also I hope that Kubo will show more of her Zan in the upcoming arc or even in this arc.:)

Snake_Cowboy
February 16, 2011, 04:00 AM
Not much to say about this match. Yoruichi wins this with little effort.

To be honest, I don't think Lisa should've advanced to this round at all, as I really have seen nothing impressive from her that could've warranted a victory over Renji, let alone this match. Even with her Hollow mask, her shikai, Hiyori and Hitsugaya to assist her, she was still unable to turn the tide against Halibel. Her shikai may look fancy, but until we have any idea what its ability is, it doesn't seem very effective to me.

A lot of people bring up her 'fight' with a Hollowfying Ichigo, but keep in mind that it wasn't about winning: it was only about occupying him for 10 minutes. It was an on-going process and he was getting stronger as his Hollowfication advanced; she herself admitted that by the time it was her turn again, she'd be dead meat. So Ichigo was acting like a mindless animal, his Hollowfication was only starting and I don't think he'd even activated his Bankai yet at the time - and Lisa was still exhausted afterwards.

Don't get me wrong: Lisa does seem like a strong, capable vice-captain and Kyouraku would not hold her in high regard if it wasn't merited, but I don't think she's that close to captain-level strength, even with her Hollow mask.

Yoruichi, on the other hand, is a force to be reckoned with, even without her zanpakutou. She escaped Byakuya while carrying Ichigo; even with her rusty and unarmed, Soifon couldn't win; she beat the crap out of Yammy with ease (though not without consequences, because of his hierro) and with Urahara's gauntlets and Shunkou, Yoruichi was capable of pounding an evolving Aizen into the ground. Both in terms of regular speed, Shunpo, hand-to-hand combat, Kidou, strategy and experience, Yoruichi seems like one of the finest warriors Soul Society has ever produced. Perhaps not Ukitake/Kyouraku-level, but close.

With her speed and hand-to-hand offense, Yoruichi would completely overwhelm Lisa. I can't see her shikai making much of a difference and her Hollow mask could probably be shattered with one direct hit from Yoruichi's Shunkou. Yoruichi wins without a doubt.

freshseth83
February 16, 2011, 07:30 AM
Lisa isn't a joke, but she's not captain level either. Yoruichi takes this. Not with ease like some suggest though. I think she may be a little rusty now, but in her prime she could beat most save the senior captains and maybe Urahara and Isshin.

UchihaHunter
February 16, 2011, 08:43 AM
Voted for Yoruichi; I mean, when the whole TBTP arc was going on, it was apparent to me that the most important captains to Yama were 2, 4, 6, 8, and 13, since he kept them at HQ, and he sent out 3, 5, 7, and 9. I think there's a reason why he kept the captains at HQ that he did. Not to mention that Yoruichi is in the top 5 or so in speed as well as quite experienced, adept at kidou, CQC, etc...meanwhile we have Lisa, who like Snake Cowboy said, hadn't even shown us enough to make me believe she'd beat Renji (although if I wasn't going by feats it would be obvious that she could).

SaintSheik
February 16, 2011, 12:41 PM
This wouldn't even be close if it were a beauty contest IMHO. The VC level Vaizards have it bad in this round, the goddess of flash dominates.

Crystal Black
February 16, 2011, 01:57 PM
Yoruichi wins. Not much to say we have the Goddess of Flash vs Lisa. A rusty Yoruichi was able to defeat Soifon. Lisa's best feat here is holding her own against Harribel, which is impressive in it's own case. I don't hold Harribel in high regards anyway, I see several people defeating her. Her shikai is featless as well. She seems to be a melee type which is even worse against someone like Yoruichi. Obviously Yoruichi won't need her zanpakuto for this.

El Samurai Guapo
February 16, 2011, 02:09 PM
Voted for Yoruichi; I mean, when the whole TBTP arc was going on, it was apparent to me that the most important captains to Yama were 2, 4, 6, 8, and 13, since he kept them at HQ, and he sent out 3, 5, 7, and 9. I think there's a reason why he kept the captains at HQ that he did.

That makes as much sense as saying that the weaker captains were sent to HM while the strongest ones went to FKT.

Random101
February 16, 2011, 03:04 PM
The spread was fairly decent actually. Partly because there's really no straight up weakest captain, most have advantages and disadvantages, and even a senior went anyway. The only retarded bit about it was that both captain and vice captain of the forth went. Kira literally had to be retconned into being a healer thanks to that retardation, and frankly neither really contributed much other than straight up healing, which any old experienced healer should be able to do. You know, if someone out of practice for years can REGROW AN ENTIRE PERSON'S SIDE and everything. >>

Well, granted, Unohana scared away the executioner dudes, but that didn't remotely call for both anyway to say the least.

UchihaHunter
February 16, 2011, 03:41 PM
That makes as much sense as saying that the weaker captains were sent to HM while the strongest ones went to FKT.
Oh dear, someone said that Rose, etc. weren't the top captains! It's war! LOL

I gave my opinion; obviously since I'm not worshipping the Vaizard captains, you've got a problem with it...I've learned to be more than OK with that, lol

@Random101 - I guess that since healing uses your reiatsu as well, someone like Kira could heal as well as, if not better than someone like Hanatarou, even though he was out of practice...dunno really though

I wonder if Yama just figured that sealing Aizen-tachi off for a bit, plus, you know, him, Shunsui, and Ukitake being there would make it a little hard for their side to really get ridiculously injured...there's a lot of ways that you could read the split.

freshseth83
February 16, 2011, 06:36 PM
They didn't expect WW. To be honest, people say Ukitake got trolled, I agree, I really think his attention was on Fura, and then WW took him by surprise. Whatever though. Yoruichi still wins this. Vizards are strong, but Lisa isn't near what Yoruichi is. She's too fast for Lisa, for one; and her hand to hand combat is probably superior as well, Lisa might last for a little while, but eventually Shunko can overcome that mask. She's definitely her senior as she was captain while Lisa was vice captain.

Xerneas
February 16, 2011, 06:56 PM
I don't see Lisa laying a hand on Yoruichi to begin with. Kubo has made the speed standings pretty clear and Yoruichi is either at or very near the top. Lisa hasn't shown anything to suggest she can cope with that and when she gets hit with the kind of force used against Yammy and Aizen, she's out cold. This match will end in a flash.

Raizen
February 16, 2011, 07:51 PM
Lisa is another hyped up character that has no merit. Youruichi wins with little effort

Bleda
February 16, 2011, 08:06 PM
Youruichi would simply one-hit KO:

conn-man
February 16, 2011, 11:41 PM
Yoruichi hits like a brick even without shunkou, she hit Aizen with a barrage of punches that sent huge blocks of concrete flying into the air. I also agree she's one of if not the fastest character in Bleach.

My vote goes to Yoruichi for sure.

freshseth83
February 17, 2011, 12:27 AM
I came to a theory, but I'll save it for later on. Just have to say that Shunko was probably a technique that wasn't invented by Yoruichi first. And could have been used by someone other than her, before her. Soi-Fon thought she had it, but hadn't perfected it. So I assume there has to be someone besides those two, maybe from the past that has learned the technique. Maybe yama's single and double bone punches are some sort of technique that are like shunko, except a different style of some sort, or whatever.

AlB
February 17, 2011, 04:19 AM
Even with her Hollow mask, her shikai, Hiyori and Hitsugaya to assist her, she was still unable to turn the tide against Halibel.

I'll remember this for Hitsu vs Yammi thread :noworry

[hr]

While Lisa still is, in my opinion, capitan level fighter we must take into account that Yoruichi is not to be underestimated - even without her Zan. I do not like to hear all those arguments that she considered herself not being capable of taking on Byakuya. Because she was not capable of taking on him 5 minutes after getting back to her human form. She would pulverize Byakuya just as easily as she had next head of Ninja corps crying at her feet :amuse

back to point :p

when there is no significant difference in reiatsus the battle between shinigamis (e.g. Aizen and SS Ichigo, when one party can't harm another) becomes battle of speed and considering the fact that Lisa has not shown us anything to speculate that she can keep up with Yoruichi's base speed, let alone shunko, I vote for Yoruichi. :)

Raizen
February 17, 2011, 11:29 AM
I'll remember this for Hitsu vs Yammi thread :noworry

[hr]

While Lisa still is, in my opinion, capitan level fighter we must take into account that Yoruichi is not to be underestimated - even without her Zan. I do not like to hear all those arguments that she considered herself not being capable of taking on Byakuya. Because she was not capable of taking on him 5 minutes after getting back to her human form. She would pulverize Byakuya just as easily as she had next head of Ninja corps crying at her feet :amuse

back to point :p

when there is no significant difference in reiatsus the battle between shinigamis (e.g. Aizen and SS Ichigo, when one party can't harm another) becomes battle of speed and considering the fact that Lisa has not shown us anything to speculate that she can keep up with Yoruichi's base speed, let alone shunko, I vote for Yoruichi. :)
Hitsu didn't seem to do much fighting after the vizards showed up... so...

And I doubt youruichi can pulverize byakuya. But that is another topic altogether.

Lisa does not seem to be agile and even her zanpaktou looks big and bulky. Not something she can hit youruichi with

AlB
February 17, 2011, 01:38 PM
^Let's leave it for Hitsu vs Yammi

I meant Yoruichi at her full potential (that is Shunko + Bankai)

And what was the point of you 3rd sentence seeing that I clearly stated that Yoruichi is faster than Lisa? :notrust you either didn't read my post or you are simply trying to make me begin pro-Lisa rants here. Good luck with that :amuse

Raizen
February 17, 2011, 01:48 PM
^Let's leave it for Hitsu vs Yammi

I meant Yoruichi at her full potential (that is Shunko + Bankai)

And what was the point of you 3rd sentence seeing that I clearly stated that Yoruichi is faster than Lisa? :notrust you either didn't read my post or you are simply trying to make me begin pro-Lisa rants here. Good luck with that :amuse
Because we totally know what youruichi's bankai is right?... oh wait we don't :-_-

And the last part was not directed at u

AlB
February 17, 2011, 02:03 PM
Because we totally know what youruichi's bankai is right?... oh wait we don't :-_-


sarcasm... I'm so~o hurt :amuse
I thought it was obvious I was speaking in general :amuse oh wait... she still pulverizes him. even without bankai

Raizen
February 17, 2011, 02:05 PM
Byakuya will give cat girl a nice haircut with his senbonzakura :amuse

freshseth83
February 17, 2011, 05:51 PM
I don't think Yoruichi can defeat Byakuya. She can beat Lisa though. Byakuya is another story. he's too strong, plus his speed is almost on par with her's. His zanpakuto ability is beyond almost anyone weve seen. He's adept in kido, and beat an espada with one hand and one foot.

Yoruichi has two things going for her. Her former title of goddess of flash and shunko. Her hand to hand combat goes in hand with shunko. Then again we don't fully understand Lisa's abilities so far, but it goes to say she probably isn't on the level Yoruichi is.

soDeq05
February 19, 2011, 08:21 AM
Sorry Lisa. :sweatdrop There is no way you can win against "The Goddess of Flash". Yoruichi can win this match easily even without Shunko. :tem

espadaboyzz
February 20, 2011, 11:18 PM
No doubt... absolutely Yoruichi will wins. Lisa-vizard cant stand standard shinigami aizen but Yoruichi can handle aizen-condom level. Lisa is nothing...she only some cocky shinigami that's nothing special....she not even can handle Harribel-sama.

Tsukisama
February 20, 2011, 11:39 PM
The Goddess of Flash wins by unanimous decision! Yoruichi shall advance on into Round 3. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.

Stay tuned for more details! :cheerbunny