PDA

View Full Version : Discussion When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?



diyana19
February 28, 2011, 08:31 AM
i have been thinking bout this 4 a while now.. what will happen when Luffy meets him? We know that Robin might have already met him.. and I want to see the reactions of the rest of the crew, especially Luffy. hilarious things may happen.. XD

Anduren
February 28, 2011, 08:52 AM
I expect their next meeting to be heavily influenced by plot and the conditions/situation that they meet under. Dragon does not seem like the type of guy who would drop by just to say "hi" like Garp did at Water 7, and Luffy doesn't seem too interested in searching him out right now (that may change, as I said, based on plot/storyline).

But I would expect both of them to fall asleep mid-conversation in their next meeting :tem

MaiSiaoSiao
February 28, 2011, 09:04 AM
Luffy:Er..You are you?
Dragon:...... Im your Father...
Luffy:Oh...Good to know.What are you doing here?
Dragon:Nothing just checking you out..
Luffy:Ok.You dont checking?I gtg now so bye.

chess4
February 28, 2011, 10:24 AM
i think luffy will think he is an enemy and attck him. dragon will stop him and reply u have gotten strong luffy. luffy will then be like who are you, and robin will say thats dragon.

i think dragon will tell luffy about his mother and tell him why he left him alone

Uriel
February 28, 2011, 11:58 AM
Well, we all know that the feelings of Dragon for Luffy are not the ones that Luffy has for him. And with a good reason, considering that He doesn't know Dragon AT ALL.

I think the meeting will be awkward for everyone. Probably Luffy will hit him.

Anduren
February 28, 2011, 12:08 PM
I don't think Luffy holds any grudges against Dragon.... He just doesn't seem to care. I don't think Luffy would care even when he meets Dragon and knows that's who it is. I also don't think Dragon would feel insulted by Luffy's attitude and outlook on the situation. He seems to respect Luffy's lack of respect for authority figures. I kind of see things turning out like how Luffy ran into Ace in Arabasta: They meet by chance (I imagine Luffy picking his nose during the introduction), talk a little (fall asleep while talking), then Dragon covers for Luffy (being chased by someone) and Luffy says "sure, thanks" with a big smile and just run away.

frontaLobotomy
February 28, 2011, 12:13 PM
I think it won't be all that emotional a meeting, they both seem set on achieving their goals and they don't really seem to get in each other's way. There will no doubt be mutual respect for each other, and it'll be interesting to see if they talk about Goa Kingdom, as I'm sure Garp kept Dragon informed about how Luffy was doing.

EureKA
February 28, 2011, 02:16 PM
The only thing that would make this meeting interesting is if garp shows up, I think garp might hold animosity towards dragon, his son is trying to flip the world on it's head directly opposing garps ideals.

Nonlife
February 28, 2011, 10:01 PM
A one-of-a-kind Kodak moment.

Dragon: Luffy, my son, it's good to see you again after such a long tim.
Luffy: You're Dragon? Why'd did Gramps name you that?
Dragon: That is...a story set for another time. Why don't get something to eat, like some...meat?
Luffy: Oohhh!! Meat!! Yatta!!!
Dragon: YES!!! Meat is the greatest!!!
(The duo rush over to the table, lickety-split, with a pile of meat on their dishes.)
Strawhats: OY! What kind of a meeting is that?!
Dragon & Luffy: (snoring away, each with a bubble sticking out of their nose.)
Strawhats: Ahh!!! Not again!?

---or---

Dragon: Luffy, you remind me so much of your mother.
Luffy: W-wait, I had a mom?
Dragon:...............Yes, son. Ahh, you're so much like her.
Ussop: I can't believe we're meeting Luffy's Dad!!
Nami: Who just happens to be the most wanted man in the world.
Sanji: Talk about a family tradition.
Zoro: I can't believe Dragon knocked up a woman whose got the same mind as Luffy's.

Freid
March 01, 2011, 01:41 AM
When they meet, it would probably be something relevant to the plot at the time and would probably be used to progress the story, rather than a casual meeting that won't pertain to anything that is going to take place in the future or address any vital information.

On this (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v55/c539/9.html) page, Iva states that Dragon has yet to make his move, and then on this (http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-100/page018.html) page, Dragon says that the world is waiting for 'their' answer. My bet is that when Dragon finally decides to come out of the shadows and make his move, will be when he will meet Luffy. He seems to be waiting for the right time to meet Luffy just as he is waiting for the right time to act. Both could very well be linked.

malgranda
March 01, 2011, 10:02 AM
Dragon is too stiff, my bet is that Luffy will find him boring and his feeling towards his father will be indifference.

matzik1212
March 01, 2011, 01:08 PM
i don't think it will be very different from when he meet his grandfather :amuse....really now i think he will ask him like stupid questions not the kind you ask on you're 1st meeting with your father ....i'm sure he will be more excited to see shanks that dragon for the simple fact that he didn't gave much thought of him having a father :)

speaking of which i'm more curious to see the meeting between usopp and yasopp :D...i'm still wondering if yasopp knows that his son is part of luffy's crew hmm ;)

RezzieThaRapper
March 01, 2011, 03:59 PM
I see three possibilities

Dragon will arrive with "battling" intent

Dragon will arrive with "family" intent

Dragon will arrive with "business" intent

----
I think we will see a new side to Dragon's character whenever it happens though

NoLimit89
March 01, 2011, 05:26 PM
Btw, I would lay good odds for Dragon to have the dragon mythical zoan fruit. Just how Marco "the phoenix" has a phoenix devil fruit, Dragon has a dragon fruit.

Besides it would explain all of the wind and fire motiffs in the scenes with Dragon in it.

diyana19
March 02, 2011, 03:54 AM
@chess4

yeah i wanna know bout luffy's mother too... or maybe even pics bout her with dragon with luffy as a baby

Zeltrax
March 02, 2011, 06:08 AM
Dragon: The world is changing and we as the revolutionary will take down the world government, do you not see it? The surviving of many people...
-inserts many great speeches here-
I'm your father, Dragon, the one that will change the world!



Luffy: Oh hi.

chess4
March 02, 2011, 02:01 PM
@chess4

yeah i wanna know bout luffy's mother too... or maybe even pics bout her with dragon with luffy as a baby

luffy looks nothing like dragon, so i assume he looks and acts like his mother. maybe her death was the reason dragon turned agaisnt the WG

Nonlife
March 02, 2011, 02:14 PM
luffy looks nothing like dragon, so i assume he looks and acts like his mother. maybe her death was the reason dragon turned agaisnt the WG

Afterall, his grandpa is a high-ranking Marine who "captured" Roger; his father's the most dangerous man in the world; and his "brother" was the son of Gol D. Roger. Doesn't anyone see the pattern? (Of course it's just an assumption.)

Jorge D. Dragon
March 03, 2011, 10:16 AM
chess4
It might be my point of view, but actually Luffy really looks like his father. Especially it was shown when Iva saw him with his Haki in Impel Down. He even commented on it. Also Luffy looks like his father and Grandad and also he acts just like Garp.:)

Anduren
March 03, 2011, 10:38 AM
chess4
It might be my point of view, but actually Luffy really looks like his father. Especially it was shown when Iva saw him with his Haki in Impel Down. He even commented on it. Also Luffy looks like his father and Grandad and also he acts just like Garp.:)

Maybe this is just my perception of how Luffy was portrayed in that scene in Impel Down, but I got the feeling that when Ivankov said "It is precisely the vay it feels to face Dragon" (page 13, Chapter 540) he didn't mean Luffy physically looked like Dragon but had the same Aura of determination and conviction.

Still it would be nice if there was even just a picture or silhouette shown of Luffy's mother when Luffy officially meets Dragon face to face again and they talk about why Dragon left him in Garp's care; just like Portgas D. Rouge was shown when it was revealed that Gol D. Roger was Ace's father.

OdaForPresident
April 15, 2011, 09:44 AM
Luffy.....I'am your father... (think star wars)

But Dragon doesn't seem the type to sleep at the table while eating meat and picking his nose. He's much to serious. His own people were happy to see even a slight sign of his humanity, those actions would be much to 'human' for him.

So when they meet up I expect that Luffy and Dragon will first kick some ass together and only when they meet up with both the revolutionaries and the strawhats will Luffy find out that Dragon is his father. Robin will make the introductions of course.

Ryuma00
April 15, 2011, 04:59 PM
I think that after meeting Dragon, Luffy will meet also Sabo, because I think that Sabo was saved by Revolutionaries and he is high ranked member.

happy GIN smily
April 18, 2011, 09:17 AM
i still think that Robin was chased by members of the RA back at Shabondy. based on that guess i think that Luffy and Dragon will face each other when the RA try to grab Robin again.

their first meeting will turn out to be more like Vaders and Lukes...

jorped
April 18, 2011, 07:06 PM
I think that after meeting Dragon, Luffy will meet also Sabo, because I think that Sabo was saved by Revolutionaries and he is high ranked member.

Possible! I also think that Sabo is alive cuz if he wasn't , Oda did won much by introduce him !

I expect nothing more than an awkward moment! I mean Luffy is awkward but even him will be embarrassed on a situation like this i think !

But i ain't really looking forward to this ! It will be probably a crappy relationship :oh

MaiSiaoSiao
April 19, 2011, 03:16 AM
I think its too early for Dragon and Luffy to battle now.They should go more into the details about what Dragon is doing and somewhere in the middle the RA did something that Luffy disagrees with and then Dragon VS Luffy.Dragon gotta win though.

Naruffy
April 26, 2011, 12:16 PM
I have a feeling that if Luffy and Dragon were to fight, it would be like Luffy vs Crocodile. Meaning that it would be a series of fights rather than one showdown. It'll be an interesting meeting for sure, can't wait for it to happen.

Rikudou Sennin
April 28, 2011, 02:18 PM
Dragon will probably punch Ruffy for raising reasons (like Garp punched Ruffy).

We still do not know how Dragon really is. He seems mystical, but Garp appeared to be quite serious at first, but ended up beeing a goof.

Since Dragon is Garps son, god knows what kind of a goof dragon is.

Maybe he is quite at Ruffys level of beeing a goof (falling asleep while eating and so on)

Roark
May 04, 2011, 12:00 PM
Or what if he actually turns out to be a very serious guy? maybe that's why Luffy is such a goof.

MaiSiaoSiao
May 04, 2011, 07:38 PM
From what we saw,Dragon is a serious guy.But maybe infront of his son,he"ll soften and act like a goof?

thatwouldbeawesome
June 25, 2011, 10:24 PM
Fun topic! I mostly hope there is a Dragon's revolutionaries/Straw hat skirmish!
Hopefully this will be the next arc for Robin.

I also hope Dragon is funny. Whitebeard was kinda a let down in being a tough char but not amazingly idiosyncratic like most of the 'strong' characters. I would really like it if Dragon was also insanely hungry ^^

zetruz
July 10, 2011, 06:18 AM
Who knows what Dragon is like if he lets down his guard. He's surrounded by people whom he doesn't share everything with, that used to include his real identity. It's entirely possible that he's really a goofball when he acts normally.

But I'd love it if Dragon and Luffy first met during a battle. Dragon rushes in and saves Luffy, like in Loguetown, but now he just gives Luffy some air so he can defeat the opponent (say, Doflamingo). Then he steps back and enjoys the fight, with a cool-guy pose.

hokageji
July 15, 2011, 06:07 PM
I dont think dragon is the types to show emotions either....

He wont answer back in a straight fashion.

Luffy:: Oh Dragon, are you my Dad......

Dragon: Father is just a title, there are more important/.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Luffy: aaaah mystery dad...

EddyBob15
July 24, 2011, 09:39 AM
Somehow, I don't think Luffy will show too much emotion when he meets Dragon. It would seem like him if he just said it was nice to meet him. His crew, of course, would react to that and wonder why he's not angry or anything. I don't know what Luffy would say in response, but I have a feeling that I've got the right idea. We'll just have to wait and see what Oda does.

exxp
August 05, 2011, 01:32 AM
I think Luffy will meet Dragon in a war: Marines vs The Revolutionary Army

MaiSiaoSiao
August 05, 2011, 03:22 AM
I think Luffy will meet Dragon in a war: Marines vs The Revolutionary Army

Thats gonna take awhile to happen.

Kyodai Senkan Mora
August 05, 2011, 04:14 PM
Btw, I would lay good odds for Dragon to have the dragon mythical zoan fruit. Just how Marco "the phoenix" has a phoenix devil fruit, Dragon has a dragon fruit.

Besides it would explain all of the wind and fire motiffs in the scenes with Dragon in it.

"The Phoenix" is not Marco's real name. Its an epithet based on his abilities; similar to Garp "the fist" or Sengoku "the buddha".Dragon is Dragons real name (Monkey D. Dragon) so basically You trying to imply he went out and sought a fruit that matches his name is frankly ridiculous and a little too far-fetched.Other fruit abilities could explain the ambience during his appearances like a fruit that gives him control over wind,storms or the weather in general.Simply put; You sir are jumping to extremely convenient conclusions.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------


i still think that Robin was chased by members of the RA back at Shabondy. based on that guess i think that Luffy and Dragon will face each other when the RA try to grab Robin again.

their first meeting will turn out to be more like Vaders and Lukes...

RA types don't wear suits and hats....that was govt. or cipher pol without a doubt

hokageji
August 09, 2011, 06:40 PM
The WG in one piece is a representation of centralization of power. If the revoultionary army is planning to overthrow them, it would mean freeing an island from their rule.... so a war directly is unlikely.

ownage404
August 15, 2011, 06:17 PM
When Luffy meets his father, what will happen?....

It's gonna be Legen-


















































dary!!
But seriously when they meet it'll be somewhere towards the end.

dirtywork
August 16, 2011, 02:30 AM
If he meet Dragon Luffy will say "who are you?" haha and there will be Ivankov or Jimbie to tell his name bla bla bla
and if he meet him Dragon will be asked him to join battle to World Goverment and Robin was there for 2 years Strawhat pirates might join Revolutionary army to take down WG or they will stand on Garps side or else they will be end the war just like Shanks

Bigfoot187
August 17, 2011, 06:47 AM
Possible! I also think that Sabo is alive cuz if he wasn't , Oda did won much by introduce him !

I expect nothing more than an awkward moment! I mean Luffy is awkward but even him will be embarrassed on a situation like this i think !

But i ain't really looking forward to this ! It will be probably a crappy relationship :oh

Ofcourse he is alive, didn't we see him when he thanked Law for saving Luffy?

ErosVp
August 17, 2011, 05:17 PM
Ofcourse he is alive, didn't we see him when he thanked Law for saving Luffy?

No, we didn't see! hahaha
But i remenber a fake spoiler with that contents...

lawrence
August 27, 2011, 08:30 PM
I think Dragon will thank Luffy for decreasing the marine's power. Luffy did eliminate CP9, dealt devastating damage to impel down, destroyed EL, caused havoc in Manriford, and beat several shichibuakis.

straw hat gemmma
January 08, 2012, 07:44 PM
imo i don't see it happening anytime soon but it's gonna be epic,with funny stuff and extremely usefull info,but the greatest thing that teases me is the one that no one(in the series)ever spoke about---miss dragon(luffy's mama)---i think it's a great mystery also and i hope to see some lines about her and her current status if she's not dead.

hoeru
January 08, 2012, 11:24 PM
I think Luffy is gonna see Bluejam... :D

Sure, Sabo is an option, too. But he's stated dead by Dadan, Dogura, Luffy and Ace.

UnknownMugiwara
January 09, 2012, 01:07 PM
When Luffy meets his father, what will happen?....

It's gonna be Legen-
dary!!
But seriously when they meet it'll be somewhere towards the end.
You forgot the "wait for it" :I

---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------

I also think tha Dragon is a more serious buisness type of guy. A guy that puts mission before family.
What I'm saying is that if he meets the strawhats its because he needs something from/near them. Hopefully he won't end up being like Gildarts from Fairy Tail, starting out as a serious and very strong guy, but ends up being a stupid acting guy :I

Franckie
January 13, 2012, 10:54 PM
They both fall asleep in the middle of a convesation and then go eat a big plate of meat. Afterwards the two get into a big brawl over the last slab of meat.

SSJ Fighter
January 14, 2012, 05:16 PM
luffy wouldnt feel a deep connection to dragon. maybe after they beat a common enemy.

mattiaildivino
January 15, 2012, 04:00 PM
I'm sure he will meet dragon in the new world,and in that moment we will know why the fake-robin was kidnapped at sabaody. perhaps she escaped from dragon,although I don't think dragon tried to stop her being a SH,he should know it pretty well,as he said a rogue town.

Naruffy
January 16, 2012, 11:56 AM
I'm sure he will meet dragon in the new world,and in that moment we will know why the fake-robin was kidnapped at sabaody. perhaps she escaped from dragon,although I don't think dragon tried to stop her being a SH,he should know it pretty well,as he said a rogue town.

Wasn't it the marines/cp9-type agencys that captured fake robin, not the Revolutionaries?

Kaiten
January 16, 2012, 03:38 PM
I do not think anything more than a brief meeting will take place until shortly before Raftel. At the beginning of the arc leading to Raftel Dragon will lend Luffy the power of the Revolutionary Army to aid him in completing his journey and becoming Pirate King. After Raftel I expect the Revolutionaries to join a coalition, led by the Pirate King Luffy, that defeats the World Government.

FriedRice
January 26, 2012, 12:22 AM
They've always shown Dragon as a rather serious character... So i really doubt they'd fall asleep while talking although I wouldn't be surprised if Luffy did! Besides I don't think they would have a casual meeting as Luffy will probably meet him to give him a hand in some war.
He'll probably reach there to get Robin back as she is a member of the RA

EddyBob15
May 05, 2012, 07:13 PM
Well, Luffy has shown that he doesn't think ill of his father like Ace thought of Roger. What I'm thinking is that the crew is going to ask him the major questions.

McNuss
May 07, 2012, 04:47 PM
RA types don't wear suits and hats....that was govt. or cipher pol without a doubtHow many Revolutionarys have we seen already? We can't be sure that they don't wear suits and hats. In fact, it doesn't make sense to send some random trash agents after Robin, because even the best Cipher Pol failed already.

What do you think did the Revolutionaries want from Robin? True History? Dragon didn't need to know the truth to start a revolution. No, they want the antique weapons, the only power that is capable of destroying the World Gov.
I think due to that, Robin broke ties with the Revolutionaries somewhere during the timeskip and has been escaping them since then. This could also be the reason why Robin doesn't tell about her time there at all.

Schabrak
May 07, 2012, 05:25 PM
There is a difference between a Robin being rescued by a powerful crew and Robin alone with the believe that the captain is dead/vanished and the crew being disbanded.

Also there is no way in hell that those guys were RA, why would Oda destroy their build up reputation to us by doing so? She joined willingly with the knowledge that she will leave two years in the future and there is no reason to believe that they didn't know of that deal. Especially if she's a nakama to Dragons son. No way that the guys who have seen her potential would send such wannabes to capture her. Think rational please.

McNuss
May 08, 2012, 08:16 AM
There is a difference between a Robin being rescued by a powerful crew and Robin alone with the believe that the captain is dead/vanished and the crew being disbanded.True.


Also there is no way in hell that those guys were RA, why would Oda destroy their build up reputation to us by doing so? It is really naive thinking that the RA is all good just from what you've seen. We haven't seen much.

I'm not saying that the RA will be an enemy in the future. Just that they aren't a purely good faction. That wouldn't fit in the world Oda designed. Or in other word, quoting Doflamingo:


Pirates are evil? The marines are Righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history. Kids who have never seen peace and Kids who have never seen war have different values.

I think this quote describes the world of One Piece pretty good. It's not a black-and-white-pattern. It's a grey world and the RA shouldn't be an exception to this.


She joined willingly with the knowledge that she will leave two years in the future and there is no reason to believe that they didn't know of that deal. Especially if she's a nakama to Dragons son.And she probably joined willingly without knowing that the RA is after the antique weapons. What else could the RA want from her? As I said, there's no need for them to find out true history, as the present is already filled with injustice. The past wouldn't matter here. No, I believe the RA is after the antique weapons. They need them to overthrow the World Government. We've seen the Whitebeard Alliance completely failing against the Marines and Shishibukai at Marinford. Do you think the RA would do any better when they face the entire world?


No way that the guys who have seen her potential would send such wannabes to capture her. Think rational please.And neither would the World Government if you think rational.

Schabrak
May 08, 2012, 08:49 AM
While Oda has worked hard to show that nobles can be good to. e.g. Nefertari and Neptune or even Dalton who was named king after Wapol was gone, I see the RA as an extension of the overall theme of OP, freedom and the option to chose your own ruler/government. If the majority of citizens want to exchange monarchy for democrazy, that's their will and they have every right to do so. They obviously have to force their way through the majority of situations, but how else would they accomplish their goals? That's how a revolution works.

It's just your presumption that they want the ancient weapons, how about all the other knowledge she has stored being the last of the Ohara clan? About the hidden past, knowledge of past events with the nobles, the capability to read every kind of Poneglyph.

The way WB and the RA fight is completly different, the revolutionaries have to undermine goverments, have to convince the the people of their ways, liberating those countries is a long-term process taking months/years. The RA has FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more people working for them than WB could ever imagine to have crewmates, remember we talk about whole countries here. And why would they ever be so dumb to attack the marine/wg HQ quarters head on? That would make no sense thinking about their whole need for secrecy.

McNuss
May 08, 2012, 09:55 AM
It's just your presumption that they want the ancient weapons, how about all the other knowledge she has stored being the last of the Ohara clan? About the hidden past, knowledge of past events with the nobles, the capability to read every kind of Poneglyph.
I already said, the past does not matter for the RA, as the injustice is in the present.


The way WB and the RA fight is completly different, the revolutionaries have to undermine goverments, have to convince the the people of their ways, liberating those countries is a long-term process taking months/years. The RA has FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more people working for them than WB could ever imagine to have crewmates, remember we talk about whole countries here.We don't know how many soldiers the RA has. And the WG's forces aren't just the marines either. Anyways, One Piece always had quality over quantity. Right now, we know 4 important revolutionaries. One is a brain dead cyborg working for the enemy. Dragons powers are unknown, but even if he's close to Whitebeard, that wouldn't be enough. Ivankov and Inazuma are both quite strong, but Dragon would need hundreds of them to defeat the WG.


And why would they ever be so dumb to attack the marine/wg HQ quarters head on? That would make no sense thinking about their whole need for secery.What's the point of a revolution if you can't defeat the previous rulers? The Gorosei and Tenryubito have to be judged for their crimes. And this will happen in the final war once One Piece is found that Whitebeard hinted in his death speech

Kaiten
May 08, 2012, 11:44 AM
True.

It is really naive thinking that the RA is all good just from what you've seen. We haven't seen much.

I'm not saying that the RA will be an enemy in the future. Just that they aren't a purely good faction. That wouldn't fit in the world Oda designed. Or in other word, quoting Doflamingo:


Pirates are evil? The marines are Righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history. Kids who have never seen peace and Kids who have never seen war have different values.

Are you kidding me :XD

The Revolutionary Army are obviously good guys. The leader is Luffy's father who is quite obviously not a Darth Vader like evil dad. At Luffy's greatest time of need the second in command, Ivankov, came to Luffy's aid. After Marineford Ivankov spent two years personally training Sanji. Kuma, a former revolutionary, saved Luffy and crew twice. The first time he ignored Government orders to kill them at Thriller Bark. The second time he rescued them from a Marine Admiral and sent them to islands where they could best train and prepare for the battles to come. He came to the Strawhat's aid even after being turned into a machine, requesting a special mission be programmed in to protect the Sunny until the first Strawhat returned. Now you mean to tell me it isn't absolutely fucking obvious what side the Revolutionaries are on. GTFO with that shit :XD


I think this quote describes the world of One Piece pretty good. It's not a black-and-white-pattern. It's a grey world and the RA shouldn't be an exception to this.
And she probably joined willingly without knowing that the RA is after the antique weapons. What else could the RA want from her? As I said, there's no need for them to find out true history, as the present is already filled with injustice. The past wouldn't matter here. No, I believe the RA is after the antique weapons. They need them to overthrow the World Government. We've seen the Whitebeard Alliance completely failing against the Marines and Shishibukai at Marinford. Do you think the RA would do any better when they face the entire world?

And neither would the World Government if you think rational.

:oh

Again: what in the plot suggests that the Revolutionary Army has any ill intent? It has been made perfectly clear that the leadership are allies of Luffy's, and it is clear that they are sympathetic to the goals of all the good guys. We have seen more than enough to know they will be good guys, not just the action of their leaders, but dialog as well. Is there some reason you believe they will prove to be less than reliable? To me it seems like fan fiction based on assumption, not an actual reading of the story.

There certainly is a considerable amount of nuance in the One Piece world but to claim that everything is painted in shades of grey would be incorrect. We know that the World Government is corrupt, repressive, and violent. We know that the Tenryuubito are wicked and decadent. Oda has been very clear that both are irredeemable evil. Nuance has been reserved for the Marine and Pirates. The Marine is clearly a corrupt institution, to claim otherwise would be to ignore the plot. They are a tool of government suppression, nothing more. The incident at Ohana and War should make that clear. So should the resignation of such good men as Sengoku, Garp, and Aokiji. The truth is that while the institution is corrupt that does not mean all individual Marines are. Many have been shown as men of justice and honor. That does not make the Marine any better as an institution. Similarly Pirates clearly represent individuality, freedom, and self confidence. They are the hero's of One Piece. That does not make all Pirates honorable men of peace, many are quite evil. But there evil does not change the fact that the hero of One Piece, Luffy, is a Pirate. Nor does it change that the greatest hero of the One Piece world, Roger, is a Pirate. Don't expect the same nuance from the Revolutionary Army. As a literary device they serve the same role as the World Government, just as D. is likely to serve the same role as the Tenryuubito.


I already said, the past does not matter for the RA, as the injustice is in the present.

Yes it does, the story makes that more than fucking clear enough. The World Government is willing to kill women, children, and the elderly to suppress the past. Therefore the past matters.

Oda has made it perfectly clear that the Ancient Weapons are not the only reason the World Government fear the Poneglyphs. Professor Clover was shot dead just for threatening to utter the real name of the Ancient Kingdom. Explain that, if the only thing that matters are the ancient weapons?


We don't know how many soldiers the RA has. And the WG's forces aren't just the marines either. Anyways, One Piece always had quality over quantity. Right now, we know 4 important revolutionaries. One is a brain dead cyborg working for the enemy. Dragons powers are unknown, but even if he's close to Whitebeard, that wouldn't be enough. Ivankov and Inazuma are both quite strong, but Dragon would need hundreds of them to defeat the WG.

What's the point of a revolution if you can't defeat the previous rulers? The Gorosei and Tenryubito have to be judged for their crimes. And this will happen in the final war once One Piece is found that Whitebeard hinted in his death speech

Revolutions don't work that way :yelling

Since when have uprisings used set piece combat to defeat seated governments? Attack peripheral provinces, erode the base of support, conduct guerrilla warfare, disrupt trade, win the hearts and minds of the people, maybe start some riots. Even an idiot would know that the Revolutionary Army lacks the resources of the World Government. The World Government has all the worlds resources at their fingers. That is why the revolutionaries have not launched an attack on Mariejois, instead they have been leading revolts in the periphery of the One Piece world. That is how revolutions work. Wiki the Chinese Civil War if you have any questions about this process.

Schabrak
May 08, 2012, 12:00 PM
I already said, the past does not matter for the RA, as the injustice is in the present.
I don't see how that disqualifies those to be rational explanations for her invite, knowledge about the past. And as fas as ancient weapons are concerned, Robin has absolutly no reason to give them any information about them. I think that was one of the major topics in the Alabasta/W7 arcs, not revealing information about those powerful weapons, easily capable of mass murder. By the way, that's what I mentioned twice this week already, it doesn't matter what the WG has done before, their current ways are still corrupt, but that doesn't stop them from researching past events to have a better understanding of the world, since she is one of the last persons on earth, if not the last, capable of reading unalterable history[Poneglyphs].


We don't know how many soldiers the RA has. And the WG's forces aren't just the marines either. Anyways, One Piece always had quality over quantity. Right now, we know 4 important revolutionaries. One is a brain dead cyborg working for the enemy. Dragons powers are unknown, but even if he's close to Whitebeard, that wouldn't be enough. Ivankov and Inazuma are both quite strong, but Dragon would need hundreds of them to defeat the WG.

What's the point of a revolution if you can't defeat the previous rulers? The Gorosei and Tenryubito have to be judged for their crimes. And this will happen in the final war once One Piece is found that Whitebeard hinted in his death speech.

We don't know how many, but we know that it's an army that has already toppled numerous governments, which lead to Dragon being the most wanted man on earth, not some top tier pirate. Also it's all citizens taking part, not just soldiers, that's what revolutionaries are.

The reason the Marines won, was because they have for fortified their HQ/military base with an new alloy, have made one of the trusted pirates backstabbing the strongest asset and had the majority of their forces including the Shichibukai on their side, so please read what I have written again. The RA has a different approach on things than Whitebeard had in the Marineford war.

What you have to consider is that the Marines can't act similary against Dragon, who's planing and fighting at probably a dozen fronts at the same time, has an unknown echelon of commanders, which Oda teased for that very reason ... too late, I hate you Kaiten. :P

Kaiten
May 08, 2012, 12:21 PM
How many Revolutionarys have we seen already? We can't be sure that they don't wear suits and hats. In fact, it doesn't make sense to send some random trash agents after Robin, because even the best Cipher Pol failed already.

What do you think did the Revolutionaries want from Robin? True History? Dragon didn't need to know the truth to start a revolution. No, they want the antique weapons, the only power that is capable of destroying the World Gov.
I think due to that, Robin broke ties with the Revolutionaries somewhere during the timeskip and has been escaping them since then. This could also be the reason why Robin doesn't tell about her time there at all.

WTF are you talking about? Why are you making things up? What would lead you to believe that she broke ties with the Revolutionaries. Did I miss something? Do you write One Piece, not Oda :XD Link to some hint that she broke ties with them, proof that you did not just make shit up to win an argument.

Also, please explain why you would think the Revolutionaries only want to know about the weapons. We can assume that they want to know something about the ancient kingdom, otherwise why bother talking to Robin? But there is nothing to assume they only want info about the weapons, or to assume she would even tell them what she knew.

She hasn't said any thing because she's Robin? Do you actually read One Piece or just look at the pictures? She doesn't say anything until the absolute last moment.

What are you talking about with random trash? Nobody was sent to capture her. They asked her nicely, no threats were made. She initially said no, they were very nice to her. After Luffy rang the Ox Bell and she knew that they were seperating for two years she changed her mind and sought them out. Te "random trash" (lulz) were not comparable to CP9, they were not trying to take her by force. They were escorts, sent to politely ask for her company. Please reread chapters 593 and chapter 596 before responding.

---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 PM ----------


What you have to consider is that the Marines can't act similary against Dragon, who's planing and fighting at probably a dozen fronts at the same time, has an unknown echelon of commanders, which Oda teased for that very reason ... too late, I hate you Kaiten. :P

That is exactly right. His location is currently unknown to the World Government, and he has been shown to spend a considerable time at sea. Like any good armed revolt there is no center to attack, much of the leadership is either unknown or has not been seen in years. And they are not attacking major Government installations for the very reasons you mentioned: they are to well fortified, to central, and to well defended. And what if they did attack and seize Mariejois? It would be a symbolic blow but would not necessarily shake Government control. It makes more sense to seize local territories. What good is Marineford and Mariejois if they no longer control any actual territory? Correct me if I am wrong but as of their last appearance the Revolutionaries were not yet active in the Grand Line, even if they are based there.

McNuss
May 08, 2012, 05:30 PM
Are you kidding me :XD

The Revolutionary Army are obviously good guys. The leader is Luffy's father who is quite obviously not a Darth Vader like evil dad. At Luffy's greatest time of need the second in command, Ivankov, came to Luffy's aid. After Marineford Ivankov spent two years personally training Sanji. Kuma, a former revolutionary, saved Luffy and crew twice. The first time he ignored Government orders to kill them at Thriller Bark. The second time he rescued them from a Marine Admiral and sent them to islands where they could best train and prepare for the battles to come. He came to the Strawhat's aid even after being turned into a machine, requesting a special mission be programmed in to protect the Sunny until the first Strawhat returned. Now you mean to tell me it isn't absolutely fucking obvious what side the Revolutionaries are on. GTFO with that shit :XDI never said that they have any ill intent. I just think that they are after the antique weapons. I can't give any direct proof for that. It's a theory based on how I interpret things and there's no need to get insulting.

Ah, what about Kuma torturing Zorro? Sure, it might have been to test Luffys friends, but it is still not something "good".


Revolutions don't work that way :yelling

Since when have uprisings used set piece combat to defeat seated governments? Attack peripheral provinces, erode the base of support, conduct guerrilla warfare, disrupt trade, win the hearts and minds of the people, maybe start some riots. Even an idiot would know that the Revolutionary Army lacks the resources of the World Government. The World Government has all the worlds resources at their fingers. That is why the revolutionaries have not launched an attack on Mariejois, instead they have been leading revolts in the periphery of the One Piece world. That is how revolutions work. Wiki the Chinese Civil War if you have any questions about this process.Actually, the important and deciding events of the french revolution happened in Paris. The RA will have to attack Mariejois. WB hinted a war once One Piece is found. Where do you think this war will happen? In the outer reaches of North Blue?


We don't know how many, but we know that it's an army that has already toppled numerous governments, which lead to Dragon being the most wanted man on earth, not some top tier pirate. Also it's all citizens taking part, not just soldiers, that's what revolutionaries are.But normal citizen can't fight. 10 Battleships with 5 VAs are enough to cleanse entire Islands. Do you think a bunch of citizen can stop the World Government?


What are you talking about with random trash? Nobody was sent to capture her. They asked her nicely, no threats were made. She initially said no, they were very nice to her. After Luffy rang the Ox Bell and she knew that they were seperating for two years she changed her mind and sought them out. Te "random trash" (lulz) were not comparable to CP9, they were not trying to take her by force. They were escorts, sent to politely ask for her company. Please reread chapters 593 and chapter 596 before responding.I was talking about the guys that captured fake Robin at Sabaody. I thought that would be clear.

Schabrak
May 08, 2012, 06:21 PM
I never said that they have any ill intent. I just think that they are after the antique weapons. I can't give any direct proof for that. It's a theory based on how I interpret things and there's no need to get insulting.
Halfwitted ideas with nothing to base them on, but an idea speaking against everything presented to us will get dismissed to enable realistic discussions. And as Kaiten mentioned there is nothing indicating that they want the ancient weapons, it's like you ignored his explanatory post.



Ah, what about Kuma torturing Zorro? Sure, it might have been to test Luffys friends, but it is still not something "good".
We don't know Kumas agenda at that time, he might have tested them for his own purposes, additionally it was never hinted to that the RA gave him orders to do anything to them. At that moment he was no RA commander anymore, but a Shichibukai. Testing Zorro might just be what it seems to be, a test of the the second strongest member. If he didn't have life/stamina/whatever to withstand the attack, he would mark them as unable to climb to the top, particularly near the border to the New World. In the end he deemed them worthy but recognised them as still to weak, teleporting them to training places for each of them.



Actually, the important and deciding events of the french revolution happened in Paris. The RA will have to attack Mariejois. WB hinted a war once One Piece is found. Where do you think this war will happen? In the outer reaches of North Blue?
I doubt Oda intends to revisualize the french revolution, nor does he have to follow that principle. France != A whole world with continents and scattered islands separated by a gigantic ocean. If he's able to force the Marines out of e.g. the West and North Blue[or South and East] at the same time, he could accomplish to force them out to one side of the world/Redline, which would be a big game changer. Once the World Government has no basis within that territory anymore, the WG's supply would be depletable, thus reducing their fighting force through treason or support for the revolution by the citizens. What can the WG do when all of the worlds kingdoms are supporting the RA's cause? They will need to give up or fight with a smaller force, making the weaker with each revolutionised country.



But normal citizen can't fight. 10 Battleships with 5 VAs are enough to cleanse entire Islands. Do you think a bunch of citizen can stop the World Government?
Think about it. Using a Buster Call on a free island would be destructive and nothing but counterproductive to the moral of the marine soldiers. Back at Ohara they had nobody to report things, but if such information is distributed by the press, it would only cause treason within the marine forces itself and a loss of support throughout all governed islands. While Akainu is the ideal person to start such events, leading to a wide-spread war with the RA, I doubt even he would be so blind to that not come to the same conclusion. The process is a slow and lasting one, running for over ten years already, if they could just retake the islands they would have done so already.

Even normal citizens can fight as shown with the RA. What do you think that organisation consists of? Ex mercenaries and marines only? I can be a fighter too, just give me a weapon and some time to train.



I was talking about the guys that captured fake Robin at Sabaody. I thought that would be clear.
He's mentioning them, because it's those very same group you accuse of trying to hinder Luffys objectives, while he's obviously an important catalyst, as acknowledged by important characters within the RA. Thus your theory makes no sense, if you read every piece of information regarding the RA. They don't kidnap good people, they promote freedom, that's the most important point. edit: the very bottom of Kaitens post[#63] pretty much answers your question. Which leads me to the conclusion that you didn't read the chapters you are talking about thoroughly enough.

Kaiten
May 08, 2012, 06:26 PM
I never said that they have any ill intent. I just think that they are after the antique weapons. I can't give any direct proof for that. It's a theory based on how I interpret things and there's no need to get insulting.

What in the story led you to believe this? What are you interpreting to reach this conclusion? Is there something in the story to imply that the Revolutionary Armies goal is to recover the ancient weapons? I have not read anything connecting them in any way to the weapons. There is no reason to believe that Robin would ever be so reckless as to tell them the location of Pluton and Poseidon, in the past she has been shown to excerise all due caution when discussing these things. So please: where is it implied that the Revolutionaries have any interest in the weapons, and where was it implied that there interest in Robin had any connection to the weapons.


Ah, what about Kuma torturing Zorro? Sure, it might have been to test Luffys friends, but it is still not something "good".

lol. Now your just playing semantics games. Luffy has grieviously injured many characters. Is Luffy evil for hurting Rob Lucci, Buggy, Crocodile, Hodi, Gecko Moria, etc. Kuma was given direct orders to kill everyone at Thriller Bark, not just the Strawhats. The World Government ordered him to execute all who witnessed the defeat of Gecko Moria. Instead he injured a single, strong pirate, who survived his injuries. He later saved the same characters life, breaking his orders again, and sent him somewhere he could get stronger. So please, don't play word games with me.


Ohara was burned down to hide the past. Dragon can't know of anything else besides the antique weapons, unless he is able to understand the poneglyphs or has heard about the truth from Whitebeard or an Ex-Roger pirate. The past does matter for the story and it will also matter for the RA, but right now it most likely doesn't

How would Dragon know of the ancient weapons but not the Blank Century? Robin does not know the true history, she has not found the Rio Poneglyph. But would it not be more logical that they are seeking her knowledge on a variety of subject, hoping to learn whatever she knows about the ancient kingdom. More importantly: why would you think she would willingly tell anyone outside of the strawhats about the ancient weapons?


Actually, the important and deciding events of the french revolution happened in Paris. The RA will have to attack Mariejois. WB hinted a war once One Piece is found. Where do you think this war will happen? In the outer reaches of North Blue?

The French Revolution was not an armed revolt, last I checked. It was not decided on the battlefield, nor was it a civil war. I assume you are referring to the storming of the Bastille, though I fail to see how that has anything in common with the revolutionary army. Nor was it a battle between government forces and rebels; it was a small, lightly guarded jail stormed by citizens of Paris, few of whom were actually armed. It was more symbolic than anything else. The real key to the French Revolution was the Third Estate walking out of the Estate's General, forming a shadow government on a Versailles tennis court. In order to appropriate money for his bankrupt government Louis XVI was forced to concede to the Third Estates demands, creating a constitutional monarchy. Only later, after neighboring monarchies declare war, was the king deposed, executed, and the First Republic created. The French Revolution has little in common with the Revolutionary Army in One Piece. As I implied earlier, they have more in common with the Chinese Communists and the Chinese Civil War.


But normal citizen can't fight. 10 Battleships with 5 VAs are enough to cleanse entire Islands. Do you think a bunch of citizen can stop the World Government?

Do you read the news? Normal citizens overthrew the Egyptian government. The Libyan civil war was fought by citizens. Even when unsuccessful citizens revolts tend to destabilize regimes. Look at Russia after 1905. Look at Syria today. With an armed, trained Revolutionary Army to take advantage, civil unrest would be a very dangerous thing.


I was talking about the guys that captured fake Robin at Sabaody. I thought that would be clear.

It wasn't. I'm not even sure what fake Robin has to do with this discussion. Those were marines arrested "Nico Robin" http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c598/21.html

McNuss
May 09, 2012, 01:53 PM
What in the story led you to believe this? What are you interpreting to reach this conclusion? Is there something in the story to imply that the Revolutionary Armies goal is to recover the ancient weapons? I have not read anything connecting them in any way to the weapons. There is no reason to believe that Robin would ever be so reckless as to tell them the location of Pluton and Poseidon, in the past she has been shown to excerise all due caution when discussing these things. So please: where is it implied that the Revolutionaries have any interest in the weapons, and where was it implied that there interest in Robin had any connection to the weapons.The Revolutionaries need power. The antique weapons were left by a civilisation wiped out by the World Government. Their locations are written on indestructible stone. This leads me to believe that the purpose of the antique weapons is to defeat the World Government, and that they have the power to do so. That's why they were left by the lost civilisation, so that a future genereation can defeat their enemys.


lol. Now your just playing semantics games. Luffy has grieviously injured many characters. Is Luffy evil for hurting Rob Lucci, Buggy, Crocodile, Hodi, Gecko Moria, etc. Kuma was given direct orders to kill everyone at Thriller Bark, not just the Strawhats. The World Government ordered him to execute all who witnessed the defeat of Gecko Moria. Instead he injured a single, strong pirate, who survived his injuries. He later saved the same characters life, breaking his orders again, and sent him somewhere he could get stronger. So please, don't play word games with me.No, but Rob Lucci, Buggy, Crocodile, Hodi, Gecko Moria, etc. were his enemies. Kuma and Luffy weren't enemies, as Brain-Intact. Kuma worked for Dragon. The thing I wanted to imply is, that the RA has good intentions, but they use very harsh methods to achieve them. They aren't the Gandhi-style revolutionaries.


Do you read the news? Normal citizens overthrew the Egyptian government. The Libyan civil war was fought by citizens. Even when unsuccessful citizens revolts tend to destabilize regimes. Look at Russia after 1905. Look at Syria today. With an armed, trained Revolutionary Army to take advantage, civil unrest would be a very dangerous thing.The issue is that the Egyptian Government didn't have invincible magma-throwing admirals. The strenght of Humans differs a lot more in One Piece than it does in the real world. One Piece humans can be more powerful than almost any weapon we have in the reality.


It wasn't. I'm not even sure what fake Robin has to do with this discussion. Those were marines arrested "Nico Robin" http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c598/21.htmlI don't think they were confirmed as marines.

Schabrak
May 09, 2012, 03:12 PM
The Revolutionaries need power. The antique weapons were left by a civilisation wiped out by the World Government. Their locations are written on indestructible stone. This leads me to believe that the purpose of the antique weapons is to defeat the World Government, and that they have the power to do so. That's why they were left by the lost civilisation, so that a future genereation can defeat their enemys..
That doesn't mean that they have to use those weapons, moreover why would they use mass attacking weapons when their fights are between citizens. It's not that all marine soldiers are bad, they just have to be assimilated into the army when the government is stabilized Imo.

I'm sure that Franky will never reveal the blueprint of Neptune to somebody, just as Robin will never reveal the secret of Poseidon to a non-mugiwara, why should they. More importantly,how would the RA have knowledge about the ancient weapons ? They weren't at Skypia, they have no ties to Franky/Tom, did not take part in the civil war at Alabasta and they couldn't have read any of the Poneglyphs without Nico Robin. Answer this please.



Kuma worked for Dragon. The thing I wanted to imply is, that the RA has good intentions, but they use very harsh methods to achieve them. They aren't the Gandhi-style revolutionaries.
The emphasis is on worked, before Iva was imprisoned. Which could have been before his titling as Shichibukai. If you have any source material to support your arguments, post them here. And as I previously wrote, did they die or not? No, nobody of the mugiwaras did contrary to a direct order to kill.



The issue is that the Egyptian Government didn't have invincible magma-throwing admirals. The strenght of Humans differs a lot more in One Piece than it does in the real world. One Piece humans can be more powerful than almost any weapon we have in the reality.

I don't think they were confirmed as marines.
Do you really believe that the RA would have become as dangerous as they are because they are full of fodder? Oda doesn't reveal much, unless necessary for the current situation, so it's not hard to imagine that he won't reveal any strong commanders until very late in the manga. Just as he did with the Shichibukai, Garp, Sengoku or the admirals. Sometimes, you just have to wait and reflect on past events.

And even if there are no other strong people in the RA, the WG can't reign and win a war with three people alone, that's the most important point. I can imagine them employing the new series of Pacifista into the civil wars though, to tease both the new version and some new revolutionaries.

McNuss
May 09, 2012, 04:57 PM
They weren't at Skypia, they have no ties to Franky/Tom, did not take part in the civil war at Alabasta and they couldn't have read any of the Poneglyphs without Nico Robin. Answer this please.How did Croco know about Pluton? Somewhere in the underground, knowledge about the weapons exists.


The emphasis is on worked, before Iva was imprisoned. Which could have been before his titling as Shichibukai. If you have any source material to support your arguments, post them here. And as previously wrote, did they die or not? No, nobody of the mugiwaras did contrary to a direct order to kill.Kuma used to work for the Revolutionary army until he was completely transformed into a PX. He even said to Rayleigh that he works for them. Yes, nobody of them died, but that doesn't change the fact that it was torture against someone who shouldn't even be your enemy.

Schabrak
May 09, 2012, 06:34 PM
Thanks, I will have to retract my earlier statement.

It still doesn't explain why they would want to use those weapons. You build up your argument about the ancient weapons from your incorrent assumption that those agents were members of the RA. With that falling through the roof, what's the basis for your theory, but your own imagination? Is there any data in OP supporting your theory?

As a Shichibukai every pirate is his enemy, as a revolutionary marines as well as pirates are his enemies. Should he really care about Luffy just because of his blood relation? If Garp were to fight against him, should he not have fought back because of the blood? He tested and evaluated them as worthy, they should be lucky to still be alive after their encounter. He even led them to their perfect training islands later on. Franky beat Ussop up merely because he was a pirate, noW he's even a member of the crew. Oda has shown over time, that getting hurt doesn't always make them to their enemies.

Getting lore served twice in a post, Hut ab! :P

Cyrs
July 15, 2012, 10:46 PM
I expect Luffy to just pick his nose and say to Dragon, "Who are you?"

I'm not sure why there's such a heated argument above, since it IS possible the rebels want to find the weapons. I mean, they did want Robin's knowledge and I was under the impression that the kidnappers may have been rebels. Now, that doesn't mean that they want the weapons to cause destruction, maybe just that they want to be sure the WG doesn't have them. I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T want to know anything about them. Regardless, I don't see the point in arguing. One Piece isn't very predictable, anyway.